The Many Marriages Murderer - Steamboat Springs, Colorado

This week, in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, more than 10 marriages, affairs, and strange behavior culminates with multiple murders, and a web of lies to untangle, including a person involving their own son in a vicious murder plot. Welcome to Small Town Murder Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder! Yayyyyy! Yay indeed! Yay indeed! My name is James Petrogallo, I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wittsman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane, absolutely crazy story here. This is one that we've had on the docket for about 8 years. We've had this one up there, and it's one of those words so complicated, it's like, "Man, I'll get to that one of these days. We'll untangle that one of these days, and today is the day. It's a crazy, crazy story. You can't wait to get into it." Before we do that, though, head over to shut up and give me murder.com, get your tickets for the last two live shows of the year. Actually, the last one we'll say, because Terry Town on November 13th looks like it's about sold out. I don't know if you can get into that. You can check maybe something will come become available, but the next night, November the 14th, Medford, Massachusetts, right outside Boston at the Chevalier Theatre, get your tickets right now. Last show of the year, we're going to go in out with a bang, everybody. It's going to be fun. It's great. Can't wait to do that. Very soon, next year's schedule will be announced in the next couple of weeks, and then they'll go on sale in December, so you can get your 20, 27 tickets as holiday gifts or whatever you want to do. Let's do that. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also get Patreon, everyone. Yes. Let's go patreon.com, p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com slash crime in sports, just like the name of our other show that you should probably check out because it's really good. But that is where you get all the bonus material. We are a chock full of bonus material. Let me tell you guys, anybody five dollars a month or above, you get everything we put out. I'm talking about everything. As soon as you subscribe, you're going to get almost 400 back bonus episodes. You can binge on those. You get those as soon as you subscribe. Then you get new ones every other week, one crime in sports and one small town murder, and you get them all. Everybody just take them. Wow. Take them, damn it. This week for crime in sports, we're going to talk about a little bit of history of the Harlem Globetrotters, which is one of those things. If you grew up in a certain time, it's just this weird, legendary team and not in a league, they go around beating the hell out of this same team all the time, but like, it's very interesting. They are iconic. It's just hanging out on Gilligan's Island. Story, I think. It's really wild stuff. So we'll talk about that. Then for small town murder, we are going to talk about how the Nazis, like actual World War II Nazis, led to the LSD craze of the 1960s and how the Nazis helped create the hippie movement. Let's just say, not on purpose, but it happens. So we'll talk about all that. That is patreon.com/crimein sports is where you get all that, add more, because in addition to that, that would be enough, but we say no, it's not. Damn it. You also get all the shows we put out, crime in sports, your stupid opinions, and both small town murders every week, all ad free too, ad regime, we're doing it. We're giving it away. Take it ad free. And then on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the show too. So you can't beat it. There we go. That said, disclaimer time is a comedy show, everybody where comedians murder is certainly going to happen. It's the name of the show and it's going on and we're going to talk about it and you might go, well, how does that work? How do you mix murder and comedy? Very carefully is how it goes. It's not that complicated, actually, and as complicated as you think as a matter of fact, we make fun of a small town is who cares? We're all from somewhere the deserves to be made fun of. That's a sense of humor about ourselves here. Who gives the shit? Who cares? We make fun of some police force that can't quite catch a murder or even though there's evidence there and then they go off and kill more people. We make fun of murders. Yeah. What else can we do to them? What can we do to them? Otherwise, we can't take their honey buns away in jail. So all we can do is mock them from a safe distance and that's what we're doing here. But what we don't do, what we never do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims families. Why James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. There you go. Yeah, that works. It's very simple there. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear one hell of a wild story. Come on. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever go together, you clicked on an odd podcast, but give it a chance and see what you think. But either way, no complaining later. Let's just hear that. That's the thing. That's the fuck. There you go. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shout out back, give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip. Shall we? We'll go skip him through the woods. Where we going? Steamboat Springs, Colorado, Ricky, the dragon, Steamboat, Springs, Colorado. It's beautiful. Nice. Looks like beautiful country up there, ski country up there, North, Western Colorado, about two hours and 50 minutes down to Denver, about three hours to Cheyenne, Wyoming. So it's okay. Yeah. It's in that area. Three hours and 20 minutes to our last Colorado episode, Whitewater, Colorado, which was episode 709, like an evil onion. That was so, it was a crazy one. This is in. Is it Route County? Jimmy, you're a Colorado. I don't know. I don't know. Route Route County. One of those. I don't know what, I don't know the names of the counties, to be honest. There's a lot. It's rural up there too. So who knows? But R-O-U-T-T. Either way. It's probably Route. I think so. Who knows? Area code 970, nickname of this town. It is apt. Skeetown USA. You bad. There it goes. That's what's going on here. A little bit of history. Trappers started coming to the area in the early 1800s. Those trappers were crazy people. They'd come from the east and just like, half of them were just loners too. They'd just go out in the mountains by themselves and come back with pelts, like they were crazy people. And they go out into like the most just desolate areas where the most dangerous animals live. Yeah. And I'm like, let's see if I can kill that. That'll be an expensive help. If I can kill that dangerous thing, someone will want to wear that as a jacket, probably I think. Wow. So James Harvey Crawford was the founder of Steamboat Springs of the town. He arrived in 1874. He liked the region's mineral waters. So he built a cabin near Iron Spring, what is now Iron Spring, and a log shelter over the nearby hot springs. Right. Spent a little bit of time here back and forth and bolder and everything. And he was trying to get businessmen to join him in organizing the town site company. Basically, let's, let's make some money here in 1884. So by 1885, they got five other families to settle in the area, including a newspaper guy who brought his printing press and started publishing the Steamboat pilot, which went on. I don't know if it's still available, but I got a ton of quotes from the Steamboat pilot that was going on during this murder. It's amazing how not that long ago this was a staple. Yeah, no, it's not that in the terms of history. It's really not that long at all. Yeah. So it came slowly. The development came kind of slowly. They got a saw mill in 1883. Some people came. That's kind of how it worked there. The native youths that were from here were forcibly removed from the area to a reservation in Utah by the U.S. Army starting in 1879, sent them to Utah. Yes. Put the youths in Utah. Yeah. So they had all this type of shit now skiing is the big deal. Now originally, skiing was literally necessity. There was no other way to get around up there. That's how you got A to B. That's how you got places during the winter was fucking skiing because horses and deep snow don't do well as remember from the Donner party. Right. They don't move very well and they just fall in the snow. So they started doing it for that and then it became kind of a popular thing. And then in the 1910s, a guy named Carl Howelson, a Norwegian guy, got here and he started showing people to how to ski jump and then it became a recreation instead of us. This is what we do. Yeah. We have fun over there. We get place to place in Norway. Yeah. We got to jump over shit to get to other shit. So people got into that and people that moved out west back then were kind of a chance taken type. So they would jump off a thing on skis. Those are the people who would do it. Dangerous folks. Then Taurus started coming because people were looking for good places to ski. By the 1960s store mountain is developed as a resort. And then it's really kicking into action here as it's our place and it booms hard. Reviews of this town. There's five stars. Okay. Steamboat is such a fun, happy town. That's nice. It's such a small town that the community is super tight knit and everyone knows everyone. Which. Yeah. You forget that people get to live here. Yeah. They stay there. It's one of those things all the Taurus come. But then when they leave, there's still this group of people. it's smaller. Here's four stars. Steamboat Springs thrives on tourism with its worldwide known ski resort and champagne powder snow. What the hell is champagne powder snow? Fancy good, bubbly, bubbly, effervescent. We're talking about, it's a great little town full of life from all the people and surrounded by national forest and all the animals that call it home. Right. All right, that's not bad. Here's two stars. We've been touring all over the United States. Went to welcome center. She was not as helpful as we not helpful as we were new to the area. Not very welcoming at the welcome center. I never, we go to a lot of places. Do we ever go, well, where's the welcome center? And do we ever gotten a look for a welcome center? I've been to one in my life and it was because I knew there was a bathroom there. They will let a tourist piss in here. Yeah. Yeah, maybe in like Sedona or something you go to. That's where it was. That's exactly, I think, where I pissed too. We both pissed in the same way. I don't think I can make it to the village. I got a stop here. It was pamphlets outside. That's the one. Yeah, told many bike trails and restaurants along the river side and things to do. Map was not helpful as we were new visiting. People in town were not friendly, even mean. Wow. I don't know how to read a map. Oh, shit. We were going to stay a couple days, but after, but left after so many mean people in town and restaurants looked awful. It's 2020, 40. I don't even have to read a map. Christ, that's when the review is from you got a phone, man. Right. Here is one star. Finally. Okay. They hate it here. This is I hate it. It's the worst place ever. Because of the natural sulfur springs throughout the town, the place smells like an open sewer. That's not it. You want it? Yeah. I don't care how beautiful it is. If it smells like an egg fart, I'm not hanging out here. What are we talking about? Natural springs are not like people think it's like maybe on the pours out of water and poured out rocks. It's not natural springs have lots of minerals. Tons of them. Yeah. And it all smells bad. God. It's so bad that it it's so bad it is hard to eat at the few awful restaurants that exist. That in town. Apparently the town is also known for its lack of police. Is it known for that? It sounds awesome. That's good. You should be happy about that. The few law enforcement officers who are somewhere in the town have been told by the mayor to leave the drunk tourists and locals alone. Okay. Don't fuck. Yeah. This is what we do here. We drink and party and believe in the fuck alone. It's like New Orleans basically. Unless they piss in the street, let them do anything. Anything. I was in Vegas last weekend. James, you know what cops? I saw zero. Yeah. That's how it's supposed to be. Well, yeah. We'll also do because the casinos are all their own police forces. Oh, yeah. They probably get their own muscle in there. It's sane security forces. Do they have jails underneath those? They probably do. I know. Is it like the filly? Is it the veteran stadium of? Right. I'm not sure. This place is dangerous. This is a town not suited for families, especially with children. We locals call. We locals call the place the dinghy or the dinghy because of dinghy, I think the dinghy because it's so dull and boring. No culture or sights to see doesn't even look or feel like Colorado more like Wyoming. I hope I have saved someone the time and money or worse a wasted vacation. It's what if you love to ski? Yeah. Right. And everything up there from from Boulder up to Wyoming is non discernible. Yeah. It's all the same. Yeah. All the way to Cheyenne. Absolutely. Peace mountains, babe. Enjoy it. Just look at the mountains. People in this town, 13,193. Not very big. That seems like a lot. More men than women. It's blown up a lot recently. More 51% men, which normally it's, it's the other way around, but that's, I don't know if that's the outdoor shit or that's probably part of us. A median age 39.8, which is like a year older than the national average and everything's kind of average 50, 50 on married, which is the national average. All that's pretty average. Race in this town, 87.8% white, 1.1% black, 1.2% Asian, 9.3% Hispanic. Religion here, 29% religious. It's usually 50, 50 here. It's 29% and that's pretty low. That's pretty low. And the highest one is Catholic actually as we wouldn't have known. Yeah, Catholic. Catholics are as we know the baptists of the Rocky Mountain region, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. There are a lot of a lot of Catholic churches now that I think about it in the areas that I've been. I think the places that use a lot of time in. Yeah. Anything that used to be Mexico or Mexico adjacent too. There's a lot of Catholicism there. That's why Arizona and New Mexico, California is a lot of Catholicism. I mean, they grew up in, when I was in Colorado in the Springs area, there was Catholic churches. I was born in a hospital called St. Francis James. There you go. I think everybody was born in a St. Something. St. Something. St. Some shit. No, unemployment in this town is low. Actually, it's a tourist town. There's a lot. If you want to work, there's work. I don't know if it's good jobs, but the median household income here is higher than the national average. It's $80,660 for the household, which isn't bad. And you, you fucking need it because let me tell you something. Cost of living here. Wow. Outrage. 100 is regular. Here. It's 138. Number one. But the real high thing is home cost, holy shit, median home cost here, $1,040,500. That is median median. They're out of their fucking minds to live in steamboat to live in steamboat springs, smelling egg farts all time. Well, not even hooray, not even not even aspen. If we've convinced you, wow, that you want to smell egg farts all the time and pay a lot of money for it. We have for you the steamboat springs, Colorado, real estate report. Two bedroom rental here, average $1,970, which is above the average. That might be the way to go. I think it is because wait till I tell you this. Just piss your money away on rent because you can't afford it. House number one here is a two-story log cabin with a green metal roof on it. It's not the prettiest looking structure I've ever seen in my life. Looks like mall bass, bro. Looks like a mountain welcome center is what it looks like. Exactly like that. Two bedroom, two bath, technically T-Bull for each and every B-hole, 1136 square feet. It looks like the forest is exploded in your living room. Wood ceilings, wood walls, wood floors, whatever thing. It's wood all wood. All wood. 7.39 acres. That's nice. $899,000. That's the 900 grand. That's the cheapest available property in steamboat springs. The cheapest. The next one has a picture of the house and in the foreground there's a fucking giant elk in it. So watch out for the house. This thing looks like it's got like a silo on it. It looks like a rusted out like what they would store like a coal in or something. It's the weirdest, ugliest looking house. Oh, in the silo? There's a silo that's got rust all over it but it's connected to the house which looks like it hasn't had occupants in it for 200 years. It's crazy. Three bedroom three bath, T-Bull for each and every B-hole, 1,890 square feet on.65 acres. It's on a mountain with a good view $1,675,000 for a million and a half for half an acre. An 1800 square foot house that's hideous on no land. Okay. Then you got an elk and then finally seven bedrooms, nine bath, T-Bull for each and every B-hole, 8,619 square feet, 144 acre lot. Yeah. 144 acres. You own a big pasture and a mountain and everything else. 24,499,990 dollars but $25 million. Good news. $200,000 price cut just happened. So everybody watch out. Now it's going to move right off that market. Now it's going to move, baby. Is it two percent? What is that? Is that one? That's not enough money. Not even 0.01 or something. I don't even know. So it'd be two percent I think. So things to do here, ski, ski, ski people. Yeah. Get your ski on. That's it. Also, oh yeah. The steamboat springs music fest is there as well. They've got to have great shit. I will find out. 65 plus artists here. All sorts across all genres. I'm going to read off the bands. There's a lot of them. American Aquarium. They're great. Okay. Andy Hedges. No idea. Ashton Naylor. The band of heathens. They're great. B.J. Barnum. Breathe back well. That's the guy from American Aquarium. So shit too. Oh, when you said that, I forgot that that was a band and I was thinking I was like with some guy from an aquarium show. One of those aquarium shows that were on a few years ago. I was like, what the fuck is he doing here? That's his last name. Bruce Robison. Cameron Allbright. Karen Mary. Colton More Karen is C-A-R-I-N by the way. Colton Mortensen, J.I. wonder what he put. plays. You know what every one of these people play. Courtney Patton, Cypress Valley band Dalton Domino, Fatsyskid. It's a two, it's a two different people, Dalton and Dalton. No, a different, say one guy. David Lewis, DJ, D.U. Django Walker, dose barachos, dose barachos featuring Kevin Fowler and Roger Krieger, who sound very Spanish down. Hazy Hank Weaver, Hayden Wiggington, Hudson Westbrook, Jack Engram, Jackson Wendell, Jared Morris, Jason Allen, Jason Edie, Jordan Knicks, Josh Ward, Josh brothers, Julianne Rankin, Kat Hayes. It's all Jays. Kurt Kouse, it has the crew, the crew's brothers, Logan Ryan, are you getting the picture here? Oh, it's alphabetical. Yeah, yeah. The midnight river choir, the ransom brothers, the smoking oaks. I'm just looking for a different one. Uncle Lucius will be there. Yeah, he's very popular. Green decade club and the wilder blue. There's a million others I didn't mention, but that's enough fear. Crime rate. American aquariums got to be headlining that they're terrific. Fuck knows what they're, well, they were first based on alphabetical. So your headliners got the A, that's good. Yeah, they say including American aquarium B.J. Barnum, Pack Green, reckless Kelly. Those are the, the ones are really pushing. Pack green is good. So crime rate in this town, property crime, right at average. All right. By the way, you got to stop signing off on people you don't know about because then you end up with a fucking, you end up with certain people that we fucking had issues with. Pack green is a great writer though. The matter is written a lot of very popular song. He's going to write like a fucking pro Hitler manifesto in three days and Jimmy's got to make it back. I'm pretty sure we got a lot of people. Little red rodeo song that we did from all that we made fun of. Yeah, yeah. That was a crime in sports episode, wasn't it? Oh, wow. I think it was. Was it? I think it was. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, property crime, right at average. Wow. Right at average. Violent crime, murder rape robbery. And of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about a quarter under the national average. So the property crime in a tourist town is usually average or a little higher because, you know, people do dumb shit. That's a vacation. Yeah. Yeah. What are you going to do? You're going to piss on something or, you know, punch a guy because you've had too many dacaries or whatever you're drinking on vacation. Yeah. Let's talk about some murder everybody. What do you say? All right. We're going to go back way back in time to start this bad boy out. And it is going to come right up to today. So that's fine. 1800s? Not that far. No. It's a guy with a coon skin hat. You're killing the guy with a, a big fringy, fucking buckskin jacket on. A lot of those. Yeah. That's just the Denver airport. That's just the Denver airport, my friend. People in Denver dress crazy. It's fucking crazy. It's like, I like dumb and dumb, but I also when they were dressed like assholes when they drove that Lamborghini, that's how they dress. That's it. March 29th, 1972. We're going to start out. Now let's talk about a guy here. And by the way, people have heard this story before that we're going to tell you're a true crime of fishing out of. You've probably heard this story. We're going to try to tell it as different and awesome as we possibly can. But it's been in a bunch of like documentaries and news type things and all sorts of shit. So March 29th, 1972, William Clark Coit, Jr. COIT is quite. He goes by Clark. Okay. Clark Coit. He lives in Houston, where he is found in a utility room just off his kitchen by his wife. So his wife, he's in his late 30s, his wife's in her mid 20s. She comes home and finds him shot three times in the back with a 22 caliber weapon. Yeah. Rarely so sad like that. Hard to do. Very difficult. Yeah. There's no forced entry. It was clear that someone was already in the house when he came home and had to have done it that way probably and kind of attacked him and ambushed him. Now, like we said, his young wife, who is the mother of their two and actually three, because she had a previous son that he just adopted. Oh, mother of his kids and his wife is here. And she's the one who finds him and calls the police. They have not been doing well. And they're actually three weeks away from their final divorce, from the shit to divorce, sending the marriage. Here and a couple weeks before this, Clark had withdrawn a substantial sum of money from his accounts and told his friends that he did it to keep his wife from getting it basically. Now the money he pulled out of the bank was never found either. They don't know where it is. Oh, it's gone. So forever, they never found it. They never found it. Who knows? Yeah, it could be could be buried in the hills like a trappers gold or something. So Curly's looking for it. That's what's going on right now. Very done to the Astros field. Yeah. That's maybe where it is. So the investigation, they immediately look at the wife here because obviously they're headed toward a divorce. She's the one that found the body and it's kind of an acrimonious divorce. So. And we got words from his friends saying he's taking out money to keep it from her. Yeah. So they're like, let's let's take a look at his wife. Now his wife's name is Jill Kuwait at the time, COIT. She's born Jill Loneeda. Loneeda. Billion. Which sounds like a mix of hillbillion idiot. Yeah. You got down billion. That's really sounds like that doesn't. Mill billion. Mill billion. So Jill, she's born June 11th and we'll find out why soon either 1943 or 1944. It's so crazy. The fucking like state and the federal government don't know what day it was between 43 and 44. Yeah. And she wasn't born like in a, you know, in an island somewhere while people were on vacation and they had no watches or clocks or anything. Home birth or some shit. None of that shit. She's born in a normal situation. We'll find out why it's because she has washed herself over so many times that the records are kind of shaky. She's born in Lafitte or Lafitte, which is a small town south of New Orleans. So by you cause when you say south of New Orleans, you're talking. How do you do that? Yup. Are you do have gills? What the fuck? This is like we're home that we did at home a Louisiana was like that. South. I mean, those people are in the mud. Oh, they are. You can't even understand those people. Yeah. Oh boy. Her father Henry Albert Billiot was a New Orleans tow boat captain. Oh, so he worked all the waterways and owned his own business, Billiot tugboat. Yeah. Her father traces his ancestry all the way back to the home of Indians in this area. So he's been here a long time. Now, her upbringing wasn't anything crazy. See, this is the thing. Something had to have happened. We don't know what it was because it was in the 40s and 50s. In the 40s and 50s, if bad shit happened to a kid, they didn't like send them to a counselor and it was all written down. They just said shut up and deal with it. At least at least the war is over. That's what you literally at least at least the war is over. Shut up. You think you got it hard. I grew up in the 20s. Yeah. I grew up through the depression and yeah, what do you want here? So we dropped a bomb on Japan for you. Shut up. You know, that's what they would say. So we don't know what happened. All we do know is that in school, she's her grades suck, but she's real popular. She's a popular girl with bad grades. Those usually go hand in hand for sometimes bad kid. That's the problem. She's very attractive, which obviously gets the attention of the boys, but apparently not the teachers here enough to give her anything. She's described in a book that we'll talk about all the books and everything we reference at the end of the show because there's a lot of sources here, just a ton of sources. In the book, she's described as a young woman with a beautiful peachy type of complexion and dark hair and who would lean into saying that she was part Native American a lot, too. She loves saying that shit. There are so many people that can't wait to tell you their 4% Cherokee. It's fucking insane. I don't know what it is. And it was more popular back then. 50, 60, 70s. That was considered like exotic almost like, but they're like, yeah, I'm 2% Cherokee. Okay. Great. Congratulations. That's fine, but what do you care? It's weird. And all that does for most people is makes their skin tone fucking awesome. Well, it's great. Yeah. Nice hair. They tan real good. Someone will say, you have nice hair. The go up. I'm 3% fucking shippewa. So, yeah, obviously I'm. That's where my hair comes from. So I don't have hair on my shoulders like you. Yeah. It's what it is. Geez. I haven't gotten rid of that yet. So at some point, she, this is funny. She had, I guess, won a beauty contest. No. Which, and this is a crazy title. This is in Louisiana. They call her this. I could get if this was in like, I'll ask her something. but she wins the title of Miss Eskimo Pie, which that sounds very sexual, right? - Or incredibly insensitive and such. - Yeah, you're really making fun of a girl who's been nice to a lot of young men. That's what it sounds like. Miss Eskimo Pie sounds like if you squeezed or jizz would shoot out of her ears. It sounds terrible. - What was an Eskimo Pie? It was in an ice cream? - I think it was ice cream. - Some kind of some kind of treat of some kind. Before our time, I think though. - Right, it's a 50's thing. - It's a few exactly. - Sock hops and it went the way of the sock. - It went the way of the sock. - You got it, man. Now apparently we don't know why she left. There's some people that say she had a fight with her brother or we don't know what happened, but she left home around 15 to go stay with her grandparents in Indiana. So we know from her sophomore year on, she's an Indiana for a bit here. She went to North Manchester High and I mean, she gets there and I'll read from another book here, quote, and I'll give you the title of that and look author at the end here so you can check it out. Although she was not necessarily prettier or more attractive than most of the other girls, there was something about the combination of teenage charm, vivaciousness, her southern accent, and the exotic locale of her former home that made the local teenage male sit up and pay attention. - She was charming, yeah. - Interesting. - And different is big, especially in a small town, you've known all these girls since the second grade. - Which is very interesting because that's like the last thing you wanna be as a teenager. - No, different. - Different. - Everybody wants to just fit in and be, and you can see it today so much. It works for hot women though. - Yeah. - Yeah, like everything else that doesn't work for anybody with hot women. For a hot woman, different is just, 'cause they're looking, boys don't care about anything else except your looks at 15. They really don't, they don't care what you're into, they don't care, they might pretend to listen to your poetry or whatever, they don't give a shit, they're horny and that's all they are at 15. - So, you're only hot if you do exactly what they do and you have 10. - Exactly, and for them back then it's, I think the different factor comes from, I haven't known this chick since kindergarten. - Yeah. - And so she's new, so it's like, all of my friends haven't gone out with her already. There's a different, like a, she wasn't there that day I was panced. - Yeah, she didn't see that. She didn't see when they ran my underwear up the flagpole. That is totally off her radar and threw my fucking shoes over the fucking power lines. We didn't see any of that. - They flushed my bomber jacket down the toilet and started like the old Bill Cosby joke, started with the sleeve and fed it in there. God, that's funny from the '60s. So anyway, so yeah, all the guys like her, she's got a Southern accent, she's different than the girls around here and one of their, I guess her best friend in high school said all the boys were attracted to her like a magnet and of course most of the girls hated her for that reason. - Yep. - And also she's kind of a bitch too, which is as we'll get into. - She's got an attitude. - She doesn't have a lot of women friends over time which is an interesting factor. July 24th, 1961 here. Okay, she's not done with school yet. Yet she drops out and gets married. Which in 1961 was considered real romantic and you know, hope those kids do. Hope those kids do well. It's the teenage wedding and the old folks wish them well type of shit, you know, that's what it is. So she alope with a guy named Larry Innan. Innan, I H N E N, Innan. Innan. - That's a horrible name. - Innan, she's like I'd like to be Jill Innan. Innan, Innan, Innan. - What people look like when they look at my name? - What the fuck is your name again? It's guess it's better than Hillbilly it. So she'll take it. - But where's the rest of your letters Jill? - Where's the rest of you? - That's what it is. So eventually she would say, 'cause someone asked her later like, what the fuck, why'd you get married? So young, why'd you do all that? She said, quote, I was raised that women were to entertain to get married and have babies. Wow. - That's what you wanna do, fine. But that first word is real humiliated. She sounds like fucking Andrew Tate or something. Like what a weird, like a horrible sense. - What a weird thing for a woman to say. So anyway, the kids, man, what a life. You're living in Indiana. You're married to some kid who just is still in high school. And you move right into the trailer park on the outskirts of Manchester. - Manchester, Indiana? - Indiana. - Where even is that? - That's the point. It's crazy. Larry went to work laying bricks, which is hard work. Nothing wrong with that, but it's hard work, you know? - That's building the outside of a building. - Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it's a good skill, too. Mason, where you can do fine for you. But Jill got a job at the Heckman Bindery. - That sounds nice too. - I guess. - I guess that's what it is. But I guess a lot of people work there. You can go there and get a job. It's one of the places you can go. This does not last long here. No, absolutely not. It doesn't last a year of this marriage. It's a mess. - Really? - Yeah. This sounds like someone who just wanted to get out of her grandparents' house and go wherever. So now, Larry wanted a divorce sighting cruel and inhumane treatment from Jill. - From her? - From her? - Not from him. - Yeah, that's what he said. So she got a restraining order against him. And he said, well, no, I won't want against her. Because she's the one who's fucking nuts. So they went back and forth like that. And who knows who's right and who's wrong? It's two 18-year-olds married. - In 1962? - It's a mess. Yeah, they're coming. He's got like a fucking duck bill in his hair and his fucking cigarettes rolled up in his shirt sleeve and a leather jacket on, trying to look like John Travolta in Greece. - Wild. - It's a mess. So the divorce was granted in 1962. And I guess Larry was the one who initially put in for the divorce. So he is granted. When Jill left, she took all the money he had that he had saved up as a Mason's assistant, which was $280. - Okay. - She just took it all. That was his life savings. So he was very upset. He was very upset. But back then, he was making like, you know, $1.80 an hour or something. So that's big money. - Oh, but it was less than that. - Maybe even less than that. That's big money. So 1964, 1965. Okay. Jill heads back down South. - We never hear from in and again. It's over. - And it's gone. He's gotta go like his $280 back. - In and out is what he is. God. So Jill goes in and out. - In and out, exactly. She goes to apparently complete. She wants to get her high school diploma. - Okay. - So she does that. In 1963, she signed up for a single course British literature during the fall term at Tulane University, which is down in Louisiana. - Yeah. - So that's where she goes. She earlier in the year, I guess she had went to enroll at Northwestern State University of Louisiana. There, I guess she would she ended up at Tulane for some reason. But I'll give you the quote from the book here from one of the books. I'll tell you which one later. The confidently poised and charming beauty didn't go unnoticed by the male students when she strolled with the other co-eds among the magnolia trees, lofty spires and gothic arches of the Northwestern State campus. She was always pert, bright and impeccably dressed. She was already perfecting her skills at dealing with men in business and on a more personal level. She didn't denigrate her overlook her own attributes and accomplishments, but she knew how to make a man feel like he was the most important person in the world. - She's kinda made in the shade. - Yeah, she knew how to, he, he, he, he do that shit and that's a living. - She shook her little ass for the men folk. - Yep. - She's good at this. - So Steven Moore, a handsome student from Downstate was one of the most impressed by her and one of the most persistent of her suitors here. - All right. - They said casual campus dates soon developed into a love relationship and have it a huge affair here. So on May 5th, 1964, they get married again. She's married again. - It's official. - Let's do, let's be 21 and married twice. Great. They first married in a civil ceremony in Mississippi and then the following October, they had a religious ceremony in Abbeyville, Louisiana, there in Vermillion Parish. So that's what they, that's what's going on. Now March 28th, 1965, Jill gives birth to a son. - Oh boy. - Okay, now. - Steven Jr. - Like everybody in this entire story as we'll find out, he goes by his middle name. There is not a, there's hardly a man, no, no, I'm talking about the, the son. There's hardly a man in this story who uses his first name. - What is that? - It's the weirdest shit in the world. Now the son's name is Steven Seth Moore. goes by Seth. - Yeah. - Is he Junior? - I don't know about that. that. It doesn't say he's a junior. So I think he just gave him the first name. So Stephen Seth Moore and goes by Seth. Um, and I guess that's if you name someone after the father, it's to avoid confusion. But everyone's James and my, I don't know whatever. So anyway, the name of Seth, Steve, junior, that's the step to give him the middle name of Stephen. Yeah, that's why I don't understand why you give him the first name and call him the middle name. It's a very strange thing to do. Um, now this marriage falls apart very quickly. I guess you might imagine it would. It's based on nothing, but oh, she's got a hot ass and oh, I like the way he fucking, you know, I like his car or whatever the fuck 20 year olds are in 19, in the early 60s are interested in here. Um, so Jill takes the baby and moves to Texas. She's out. Now she's, now she's got a child. She's got a baby, baby Seth. Uh-huh. Boy, that's Seth. Let me tell you something. That Seth is going to be a huge part of this story. Um, well, we will call him the Seth of Damocles and leave it there. It's dangling from this point on. Okay. Now you'll get that later. So, um, the, they're still divorce pending with Stephen more. They're not officially divorced, but she takes the baby moves to Texas. Where she is going to meet a guy named William Clark Coit Jr. Remember him from the beginning? Clark Coit Houston. Okay. Um, now in Texas, Jill worked a little bit. She had a fledgling modeling career. She was trying to, I don't know, do ads for Eskimo pies or whatever the fuck she was trying to do. But she's fucking rodeo grounds in Houston. Oh, man, there's got to be a car boat show that someone needs to go. Look at that. It's something for a model to do. Yeah. So she meets this guy. Now Clark, another guy going by his middle name, by the way. Um, he is an engineer with a company called Teneco. Okay. Um, now they didn't meet in, in, uh, in Texas, though, which is interesting here. I'll read this from the book. Uh, this is an interesting, uh, passage from the book that shows how they got together. It was a typical Saturday night in the French quarter. The tiny night clubs, bars and eateries were moist, salutary and overcrowded with neighborhood regulars moving or seated elbow to elbow in the twilight darkness with smattering of tourists. Okay. In New Orleans. In New Orleans. They listened to the vagabond jazz, jazz riffs of a mellow sacks or a modern day descendant of story bills, old whorehouse professors tickling the ivories. Jesus Christ. Say there's piano being played enjoying the atmosphere. No, we got to get to learn or we got to get, we got to tell everyone this used to be a horror house or they need to know. We mentioned pussy used to be for say, I'll need to know. There's come on the floor. They need to know that don't bring a black light in here. Uh, okay. Uh, so, uh, ceiling fans drone overhead slapping listlessly at the tobacco smoke and stale air. We all got the scene. You get it. William Clark coit junior was relaxing with a martini after another long day in the marshes when he got his first look at Jill. Okay. She was a stunningly beautiful woman with long legs exquisitely exquisitely swelling breasts that were shown off with a provocatively low cut blouse. Yeah. Are you supposed to be jerking off to that? I think we are. It's just a slow stroke for now. I mean, don't really get on for a while. Um, and a tiny waste that complemented the smooth feminine flare of her hips. Her long dark hair was pulled back to accentuate the dramatic planes of her oval, oval face. I looked at Jimmy and started laughing. I had to say that looking away from Jimmy because if I look at you like Jesus, I got to laugh. Okay. I can't believe how horny this is. This is very horny for her. Jill knew how to use clothes and cosmetics to enhance her natural loveliness and make the most of her sensuous shape smoldering brown eyes and fine high cheekbones. Her makeup was perfectly applied with just enough accent to compliment her dusky complexion and inquisitive brightness of her big eyes and the stark sensuality of her full lips. She knows too. Oh, she is knows exactly what she's doing. That's a hot chick. Yeah. Hot chick walks in. Okay. Clark was enchanted by the alluring temptress. I'll say work here. I don't think she's just hanging out there. Now she's just out of her night on the town. A Lanky 35 year old bachelor who had spent the last decade working his way up through the ranks with the Tennessee gas transmission company and Tennessee gas pipeline company. He was a rolling stone. This is about Clark. By the time he began loping through the French quarter jazz joints and watering holes, he was already on the fast track at Tennessee gas and was in charge of all the company's construction in southern Louisiana. That's why he's there is a Texas guy. It's in Houston. He was such a mass. It was such a massive responsibility that he had his own company assigned float plane and pilot so he can inspect and examine potential pipeline sites in the bountiful marshes and gummy shallows of the tidewater. I've never had a job that my company was like, take the plane. It's all yours. They give him a plane and a pilot that's just on waiting for him to say, take her up. That's awesome. I mean, it's one of those lands on water and shipping. It's cool. It's amazing. Yeah. The job he was working would eventually involve the laying of the intricate network of more than 300 miles of pipe through the swamps and across the Mississippi river. Awesome. Company bigwigs as well as the men in the field referred to this job as the muskrat line because of the proliferation of the of the little rodents in the marshes, a lot of muskrats. So after the pipelines were connected, natural gas was pumped through them across the country to customers as far away as New England and the Midwest. So this is going to pipeline going. Now Clark is not, as you say, he's an executive and he said, Clark Coit sounds like a cowboy. He's not, and the book says Clark was not a lady's man. Really? Not at all. And it was especially difficult for him to develop a serious relationship with a woman. The book goes on to say, after 15 years of moving around the country from job to job and living in temporary apartments, he was more experienced at casual short term hit and run romance. He's been, he's been getting it in there. He's just not been sticking anybody in a short and a little shorter. Yeah. In large part, it was the nature of the job. There was not much of an opportunity to lay down solid roots. But he's successful. He's stable. Yeah. And it's also the 60s where a lot of guys would see a young woman that was married twice already and as a baby as not taking a chance on her. Don't need that. He didn't give a shit about that at all. Nowadays, nobody would care about that. But back then, that was a big deal. So the book goes on to say he was midway into his 30s. However, it was a time when even long time holdouts like Clark were beginning to consider finding a girl and settling down. Back then, it's what one of his friends goes. He was no spring chicken, you know, and it's like he was like 35. Back then, 35 was like, what's wrong with you, Jesus? Fucking guys half dead. That's literally half dead at that. He'll be dead in another 35 years this man. Yeah. I got to get him married off. That was considered crazy. Yeah. Look at him. He's dying over here. He's already, he's wilting to nothing. So they say that Jill was a young, dark, beautiful charming intelligent and had a tiny waist and we fit perfectly between his big, rough engineers hands. He was, she was everything that a man like Clark could wish for or so it seemed. Right. And they said the attraction appeared to be mutual. Clark was tall and as as raw bone as a cowboy, the book says, he was also blonde, lonely and had an excellent job with a high income and an even greater future earning potential. This is husband material. Basically, this man like Jill skies the limit. Perfect. So in just what Jill was after. Yes. So the book says the morning after meeting Jill, Clark telephoned his pilot and asked if he minded taking him on a rare Sunday flight over the marshes. Pilate said no problem. Clark was a popular man among his employees and people did things because they liked him. That was to take her up and show her around. Jill moved into Clark's apartment in the French quarter. The lonely engineer thought he was the luckiest man in the world as he enmeshed himself further into the relationship. He plunged deeply and irretrievably in love. So there we go. Jill also enrolled at Tulane again, taking classes during the fall term of 65. She took classes in US history, the history of public address and astronomy. Pretty grab bag. Just random shit she takes. Just to make it look like she gives a shit. Maybe she's interested in. That's all she's taken. And she kept in touch with Nancy, her close friend from high school. That's the woman who we quoted earlier saying that all the guys loved her and all the girls hated her. In November 65, which is eight months after the birth of her son from last marriage. Jill and her boyfriend flew from New Orleans to Cleveland where he showed her off to his family for the Thanksgiving holiday. Cleveland. This is my new girlfriend. Check this out. You know, and he's proud and his family's finally got this the first time you finally brought somebody home for Thanksgiving. They're happy. Construction man from Cleveland. He's cars from Cleveland. Good Lord. Yeah, Jill was her usual charming self when the family gathered around the dinner table at the house. in the comfortable upscale bedroom community of Gates Mills just outside the east edge of the city Neither Clark nor his girlfriend though mentioned that she was the mother of an infant son that they left in New Orleans She's like don't tell don't tell the family you have a kid as far as they know you're just a nice young lady You don't don't tell her you're shit about Seth. No, don't tell your damage goods. That's what it was back then. So Anyway, January 29, 1966. They are married in Texas By the way her divorce is not finally yet I'm Steven Moore. So this is husband number three overlapping into husband number two And we're gonna count marriages and husbands over time. I'm just gonna have more right now. She's three marriages three husbands Let's just keep it that for now. Okay, one baby. So The wedding was a big surprise. They didn't have a big to-do a big invite all the families and threat They just went and got married real quick, okay, apparently this Clark called his brother and just said we're married. Isn't that great? They're like, okay, Clark was 36. I didn't even have chicken or the fish. Yeah, what the hell? I didn't get to choose Clark was 36. Jill was 22 His older brother said quote. He was no spring chicken I mean, he was beyond the age of the first juices running What the fuck kind of texasism is that actually Clevelandism? It's Ohio. What is first juices running? He was no I'm gonna read that again. He was no spring chicken. Yeah, I mean he was beyond the age of the first juices running I wonder what's juices running on I'm real confused there. I guess you he's not just some horny young kid trying to I guess that's what he's saying I don't know. How many juice runnings do you get? I think you get your first juices running and then around what age like 30 You get your second juices and the third juices don't come to midway through your fifties. It's crazy Go along. Got to hold on to the second juices for a while. It's like your adult teeth. You're gonna hang up Discussing way to catalog years. The word juices is never good. It's never good. It's always gross It always grosses me out whenever anybody says that um, so the book says Clark's behavior and shutting his family out was one of the most important events in his life and was out of character For him. That's not what he does usually. He doesn't just on a whim do wild shit Well, especially get married because they go on to say his brother was an episcopal priest and It wouldn't have been an odd thing for him to ask his brother to officiate his wedding because that's what kind of what he does But they said they they didn't even know in fact they said the family couldn't even figure out exactly where the marriage took place Because they never we don't even know where Clark didn't tell him. He just said we got married over the weekend. That was that But they were like, I mean be happy for him. I guess. Yeah, good for you. If you're happy we're happy But you know whatever and they said it was about time the Clark settled down and began to raise a family god damn it He's no such a chicken. You only got so many juices. You only are on your second juicing and it's about to run out so Now Clark adopts Seth and raises him as his own What a guy Seth takes the name Seth Coit and that'll be his name forever I'll keep that name so He adopts Seth here Which is very nice, which is strange because he's not I don't know if the father had any say in that Stephen Moore right, but not only is she still married them But now the kids adopting out his kids. This is wild. This is wildly presumptuous, right? I'm not crazy. This is legal. I don't think any of it is. That's the fun part I think it is legal, especially the marriage part. Now they're gonna have two more children together. Oh, that's nice Buckle up for their names, dude. Okay, William Andrew Coit. Guess what he goes by Andrew Andrew Andrew, but William after his dad's first name William Clark That's in November 66 then in March of 68. They have another son Yeah, William Clark. Quite the third. He named both his kids William. You can't have a bunch of William Two kids named fucking William and guess what he goes by Clark. Yeah, you know, so it's not confusing This is crazy Oh, no, he's known as Billy. I'm sorry the second is not his Billy. I apologize, but William Again, two kids named fucking William. This is not so he's Billy and the other ones Andrew So and he names the third the second kid is the the one who's the third not the first one. Yeah, which is odd also Strange did he went with Andrew and then Billy so he's naming them A and B So it's fucking weird. So there you go And during this time this is important uh, there is some problems and apparently doctors have performed a partial hysterectomy After his birth on gel Okay, Jill had Jill had some issues in there that she needed to get scraped out and uh, yeah, so she's not gonna be able to have any more kids That's it for Jill and her kids. Oh, the partial. I mean you'd need all of it It's like yeah, I mean, I guess you could have one ovary and it would work or whatever But if they take out both of both of something you're in deep shit, I think You imagine if any partial and either a doesn't work or it's be Insane challenge, don't you? Yeah, you might need I don't do whatever you might need a In vitro or something like that. I'm not sure Now Clark is really into his old thunderbird the car He has a 57 thunderbird. He loves Yeah, loves it and It's a cool car, but it's going. I mean, it's not bad. He's in a thunderbird club Love him the 237 yeah You can see him trailing the Corvette club by about three miles with picking up With more distance between them as time goes on It's not a fast club. We're here to be seen We're here because we like the lines of the thing. That's all it is We keep them shiny because we know people will see that yeah And then I guess their wives Clark's got a friend and I guess this friend's wife wife and also Jill Get into the club too and help out with shit as one does one year Jill serves as the club secretary And records the minutes of the meetings and takes care of the paperwork I don't know what kind of paperwork a thunderbird club could have what kind of paperwork do you have Well, what do you have to keep straight there? What meetings in the minutes? What are you talking about Some other show It's a bunch of guys. Yeah, how to coffee shop parking lot. What are we where we need and look at our cars What do we need for a few minutes for here? This isn't a meeting of the United Nations. So treating this dead ass series like it's a union meeting. Yeah. She also love the tea bird here The club which got a name eventually the classic thunderbirds of Houston sponsored rallies and joined with other groups for shows picnics and parades Yeah, they were the ones in all the way in the back trailing by a bunch last place Oh, yeah, if you stick around for 20 minutes when the parade concludes you'll see the thunderbird club Here they come everybody You guys can take a breath bathroom break or ever in a few minutes the thunderbird club will be here so apparently there's There's another club in Santa Antonio and every year members from the Houston group Group drive there to appear in the St. Patrick's Day parade and people come from Dallas and everywhere else and uh Another group of tea bird owners from Arkansas and Louisiana would meet in Shreveport and invite the Cleveland the Houston club to come Wow, these thunderbird clubs get around to each other. Oh, no Now with all this this is a better lifestyle than then Jill has had with the first two guys I mean the first guy is in a fucking trailer for a while right the second guy is you know college student or whatever not Living you know in adult luxurious life whereas this is different There's a small age gap this guy's got some money together. He's got so much expenditure Extra cash. He can he's a classic car and friends that have the same car. He has Disposable things cars and everything so And she had money and Jill spent money and she he didn't mind and she loves spending money and Clark would travel for work all the time Um, and while he's traveling for work Jill Jill gets lonely. Let's just say. Oh, no Jill's very lonely. Oh, this is nothing Jimmy. Wait a minute. This is a tip of the tip of the crazy iceberg here um Apparently she took writing lessons to be a Horses horses um I'll read from the book she was a natural equestrian She had easily learned to ride and jump her mounts within weeks, however The story being whispered around was that she was having a romance with a writing instructor She's writing him too. There's lots of writing shortly after Clark went to was sent to Syracuse on another job The rumor mill began buzzing again about a torridly azzon. She was reputedly having with a doctor who treated one of the boys Which that can't be ethical. I don't think you're supposed to fucking I don't think pediatricians are supposed to fuck their patients parents Are they I don't think that's right. I think they're supposed to know anything about sex not at all Unless they're telling you about your problem with it and how you can fix it Um, they said Jill and Clark were back in Houston when she began to taking scuba diving lessons, she is bored. This is-- - Or not, she is so busy. - She's trying to find ways to not be bored and a new round of stories started circulating. This time she was said to be having an affair with her diving teacher. - Right, that's why not. - School instructor. - She was flaunting her infidelities and almost deliberately inviting attention as if she enjoyed being the center of the feast of spicy gossip. - Yeah, I was just about to ask, how the fuck does everybody know about, not one, not two, but three, a fair? - She's-- - Alan Everett. - She does not hide it either. That's the other thing. - Wow. - She's not-- She doesn't hide it, she doesn't care. So one of his thunderbird bodies, one of Clark's thunderbird bodies, didn't really like this. They said, none of the company gossip seemed to have any real evidence to back up the stories, but they were still stories you don't want to hear about your wife. - And a thunderbird man's a proud man? - That's obviously a proud man. He's a member of the Thunderbird Club. - Just that Clark. - Obviously, they say there was so many of them and how he wondered, did they start? How do these rumors get started? This guy thought, furthermore, if the nasty tales were untrue, they were grossly unfair and damaging to his friend. And his friend's wife, too. And if they were true, Jill's behavior was fucking repulsive. - That's fucked up. - Repugnant. And he was mad because his friend Clark was deeply in love with his wife and very devoted to her and all that. Now, Jill, the book says it was Jill herself who crushed any doubts this man may have had about the stories that he had heard, basically. Clark and Jill were hosting a Christmas party for some of their friends from Teneco, the company. And this guy, the Thunderbird Club guy, was in the kitchen by himself mixing a drink when she opened the back door and slipped inside, according to his recollections. A bitter wind, which locals call a Canadian northeer, was sweeping across the prairie. Despite the frigid weather outside, Jill didn't have a coat on. She had a reputation for wearing flashy, revealing outfits that showed a lot of skin, especially her legs and breasts. The cold clung to her body like an envelope, as she moved up close to this other guy here. She said, has anybody missed me? Meaning like is someone, anybody looking for me? He said, well, I don't know, where the hell have you been? He said he couldn't have asked a question. She was more anxious to answer, because she was super mad. It said she was steaming mad and she spit out more information than this guy wanted to hear. Quote, that son of a bitch I'm taking scuba lessons from, he knew I had to run this party tonight. She had called him a bit earlier from the telephone in the back bedroom and suspected from the way he talked to her that he wasn't alone. So she had left the party to drive over to his house to look for herself. - She's jealous. - She's jealous. How dare, I'm cheating on my husband with, dare he might be fucking someone else. How dare he, that is narcissism at a different level right there. She wants all the dicks. Yep, for herself and no one else to have any. Why can't I have hair and money and he has nothing? Why can't I have all the dicks here? Hair and money and all the dicks and none of the other women have anything. So she said, quote, I went over there and caught him shacking up with somebody. That's sorry son of a bitch. She's telling her husband's one of his best friends this. - Wow. - The guy I'm fucking a man 'cause he's fucking somebody else. So she has, does not care at all. They said any image of a sweet southern bell Jill may have planned to maintain for her friend that night had exploded into a nasty torrent of jealousy and vitriol. Wow. So Jill spent a lot of time away from home on her own. They said a fledgling, modeling career and public relations work. She was doing, we're taking up big chunks of her time. Her boys were being watched by professional babysitters or friends or whoever. After a while, she began taking overnight's weekends then breaks of a week or two at a time to deal with her business affairs. - Oh. - Sometimes back to New Orleans. - For modeling. - Wow. Another 10-a-go couple company there were close friends with Clark and kept the boys a few times while Jill was on one of her trips and they later told the other friend, the Thunderbird friend here that one day they found ugly bruises on one of the boys where an assed where your bruises come from and the boy told them that Jill had whipped him with a belt buckle. Mama hits me with the wrong hand. - Fuckin' A, that's brutal. When the boys were picked up, the woman who had been taken care of them had a little talk with Bill or with Jill, I'm sorry. She made a plane that if she ever saw evidence again of one of the boys that had been beaten, Jill was gonna be in big trouble. - Yeah. - That's it. I don't even know if you could call the cops in 72. They'd say, well, that's just being a good parent. That's disciplined, especially in Texas. You can't call the cops in Texas and say someone's hitting their kid in 1972. They'd go, yeah, good. - I don't know if the belt buckle has ever been beaten up, has it? - I think in Texas, that's the weapon of choice probably. - But that ends. - It's all belt buckles down there. That's what they got him for, they're kid beaters. No, I don't know, I don't have any idea. - Yeah, when you win the rodeo, they say, your kid's really gonna stay in line today. - Yeah, when your dad wins the rodeo, all the kids cry. That's how it works. Oh no, that's a big one, Jesus Christ. - He got the biggest one. - Oh damn. - He got a dinner plan. - God damn it. - Oh Jesus, looks like the intercontinental championship. This is terrible. - Well, he doesn't find out about that winner. (laughing) - See, I don't know back then if that was, even a thing you can go to the cops with in Texas in the early 1970s. - I can only comment on the '80s, but I remember definitely in the '80s. I was hit with a belt all the time. But, it was never the belt buckle, and I had friends at school that would tell us that their mom hit 'em and all of us would be shocked. - And we all were beaten. - Beatin', but not early. - Not with that hard part. - Early '70s Texas beatin' is probably a different kind of beating. - It's different too. - It's all different. That's when you get hit and dust clouds come off of you. It's rough. So, anyway, she and Clark then, Jill and Clark began off again, on again, series of separations and reconcilations. Clark was embarrassed by his wife because she would fuck everybody in town and everybody knew it. He's like, williamassi and boogie-nights. - He's like, I don't know. - It's Jim Carrey. I mean myself and I read it. - And bad stuff. - But he's not doing anything about it. - No, while he's working too. He's also, you know, fucking busy. She openly, this is from the book, she openly boasted about her love-making skills. Stunningly lovely. - She too. - Oh yeah. Jill had a keen sense of the power of her beauty and femininity to go along with a convenient set of elastic morals. She was a sassy, sexy temptress and she had no difficulty or compunctions about attracting admirers and lovers. So, unbelievable. - Yeah, he's away on business. She's banging everybody she can. This turns into a fight over who's gonna get the kids now. That's what this turns into. March of '72, we're not sure who filed first, but we think it's Jill filed for divorce on March 8th, 1972. Not sure. Either way, in March of 1972, they were active in divorce proceedings and a couple of weeks earlier, he had taken money out that now can't be found after we know what happens 'cause on March 29th, 1972, is when he's found shot to death in his home in Houston. Now, I have a newspaper article from the Houston Chronicle for March 30th, 1972 that I found. And it says, "Slaying pipeline firm executive, William Clark Coit Jr. was known to carry five to $600 in cash at all times." - All the time. - That's a lot of money back then to be carrying around, by the way. They also said he had a cashier's check for about $6,000 a night before he was killed. And I, fuck, so cash, that's cash, basically. Officers reported finding no money in Coit's house at 69-23 sharp crest. His recently acquired, I'm not a gun guy, but is there a 41 caliber? - I've never heard of that. - Point four. - Point four, one magnum pistol was also missing. - Oh. - Is that just a miss, maybe you may have heard of a 41 caliber. - A 40 caliber, a 44, I've never heard of a 41. - I've never heard of a four. I saw that I was like, that's news to me. I'll have to ask Jimmy 'cause I never heard of that before. Okay. - Never heard of a 41 caliber. - Let's say, made it at some point and stopped because that's stupid. - Sounds dumb, just doesn't sound good. Let's go with like even numbers. Well then, five on the, well, what about 38s then? Shut the fuck up, all right? Just don't even bring it up, okay? - What about the 350s? - Out of care. Those are already being made. They're rifles in those, this is just 40-44. That's it. - 45, whatever. - No 22s, we're going 25. - Yeah. - Right up the line. - We're retiring the 44s, a matter of fact. Nobody make another one, we'll sell the ammo. Nobody make enough. - No four. - So, a friend of his ends up finding him because he didn't report to work or answer his phone, so they sent somebody over there. Now, he lived alone at this point. He was found lying in a hallway. So actually, I think a utility room off the kitchen is what we found out. He'd been shot four times with a 22 caliber weapon, twice in the back and in the head. and shoulders. Well, it all looks like all from behind. He was wearing his underwear and a television set was on in the bedroom. So somehow he got drawn out to go look for something. Obviously he was in bed. Police found no new sign of forced entry. The front door had been forced open in the lock broken, but police said that he did that himself some time ago when he locked himself out of the house. They got there like, well, we know where the entry came and they are like, no, no, no, that's him actually. He did that. He lost his cheese one day and his mind at the same time. Just kicked this motherfucker open like a SWAT team member. He had 600 dollars in his pocket and refused to wait for a lock to open. No, nothing kicking it open. He was last known to have talked with a friend on the telephone from his home 9.45 the night before. So this is interesting and then Jill found the body and then they find out that he had taken money out. They were in the middle of a divorce. Yeah. He's Jill didn't live there anymore, but she came in to find him because they said a friend found him, but it was Jill that found him, not a friend. So the company had called Jill and said, do you know where Clark is? And she said, no, I'll go check on him and that's what happened. So and he had told his friends that he took all the money out. Now they never found the money he took out, which was a $6,000 cashier's check. It's called in the wind though. No. So the investigation, they're naturally going to look at the younger wife who's in the middle of a divorce with him first. They don't know all they don't know about scuba instructors and equestrian. They don't know all these different instructors she's banging. But so they're going to talk to her. Jill, though runs away doesn't want to talk to them. No, she leaves Texas, goes to New Orleans and hires a lawyer. Okay. Now her lawyer told her you should check yourself in with psychiatric hospital. That'll be good for you. Oh, this is what you do. This is not the murder by the way that we're talking about this week. Um, so the house is nothing about. No, no, exactly. I've even got there yet. So used in police never gathered enough evidence to extradite her or charge her. They never really got to question her at all. They just got on the scene. They questioned, you know, talk to her quick, where were you? Did you just get here all that kind of shit? But they never got to do an interrogation with her really. So, um, apparently she was admitted to the hospital claiming acute hysteria and emotional distress. She stayed there for weeks, weeks, then she retrieved the three kids from cal from relatives and collected whatever she could get from Clark's estate and moved to California. Really? Yep. That murder will never be solved, by the way. Is that right? We're pretty sure, but it's never officially off the books. It's still a cold case today. Still going now. So in California, this is one of the strangest parts of the story and that's saying a fucking lot because we're going to get into some weird shit. But in California in the early 70s, she meets a man named Bruce Johansson around 1973. He is, people describe him as over 90 years old. She's going to add in a call, Smith this man, dude. 90 years old. Now, I don't know what the, she can't marry him because she's still married and all sorts of shit like that. So she talks this man into legally adopting her. Okay. Yeah. She's like 28 years old with three kids and he adopts her. I can't get married, but what if you're my dad? Yeah. A few months later, he dies of natural causes because he's in his fucking 90s and she inherits a decent portion of his estate. Oh my god. Yeah, that's why she said adopt me. Okay. Oh boy. So from there, she finds another guy still in 1973. Donald Charles Brody. He is husband number four. We don't count Johansson because he's a daughter. Yeah. She's a daughter. She's her dad. She's her dad. This I can't remember where they are here. But this guy's a Marine Corps guy's a major in the Marine Corps. Major's a pretty high up rankings. That's pretty good. Yeah. It's a major than corporal that are then a colonel, then general, I think. Yeah. It's above lieutenant and all that bullshit. Major, I think it's a third and command. Yeah. I think that's what it is. So the way this goes down here, he liked to control his money a lot and not let her do whatever she wants. You know, like a like a fucking major would do. Yeah. So they get married. She's not thrilled about the fact that she's not allowed to take all whatever she wants. Money wise. So this ends pretty quickly. And they separate now. Here's what happens. She leaves and she calls him up and says, I gave birth to your son. Oh my God. Yeah. She said the baby's name is Thaddeus John Brody. This guy's name is Donald major Thaddeus John Brody. So this guy said, what are you talking about? I don't even know you're pregnant. That sounds a little shady. So she said, well, here's this birth certificate. It's a, it's a boy. Congratulations. Yeah. It stuck us a guard as mouth and said, yeah. Push ups and shit. Oh, yeah. So now he said, well, where is this fucking baby then and all that sort of thing? So then she paid, oh my God, paid or convinced or did something got one of her friends to let her borrow their infant. So she could present the baby as this is your son. So she never had a child. She had a hysterectomy. Right. She can't have a baby. She just made this up to get child support from this man. Oh my God. One way or another. I'm getting something. I'm getting something out of you. But I have to squeeze it. Wow. Fucking lemon. So you'll never see him. Here it is though. Yep. So that's what it was. And the child support was the point. We don't, the baby definitely never existed. We know that for a fact. So she forged the birth certificate, which she gets good at because she has a bunch of different identities as we go forward here. Oh boy. Um, so then as this goes on, you can only borrow a baby once in a while. Yeah. Before he's like, I'd like to have my son for a weekend, right? Like to whatever. So she says at that point, well, he died. Baby, your son has passed. He's dead. And I buried him in our family crypt. So he's gone. Sorry. You don't have to pay anymore. But dead through him in a hole. He's all dead now. Sorry. Our bad. Now, the crypt was open later. There's no child in there at all. No, it doesn't exist. Um, so obviously there's that. Now, 1975, the Brody marriage ends in divorce here after about a year and change. Okay. So that is that now. That was husband number one, three, four, four. Yeah. Okay. Next up is October 11th, 1976 in Mississippi. She's married again. She went back down to the south. Lewis Derosa is his name. D.I.R. OSA. D.I. D.I. Not even the D.E. That's why I spelled it. Um, now he was a lawyer who later become a judge. Yeah. So this is good. He was one of the attorneys, apparently who had represented her during the investigation into Clark Coitz murder. She is charming. It's charming and fucking. She's so good at this. Yeah. She's going, you know, when a toilet flushes, it's got like that's what she is. She's like to people. Yeah. centrifugal pull into the earth like with her. It's wild. So it's crazy. Um, another source described him as a lawyer who helped her with her divorce. Uh-huh. We don't know though, which one it is. Um, either way, how the fuck does she keep reeling all these men in based on her history? Now, I'm sure she lies. Number one, she's saying everything. But um, she fucks good too. And if somebody, sometimes that's enough to, to make you just believe anything they say, especially if she knows which guy to look for. Yeah. Because there's a certain guy that if you fuck him right, he will be putty. You know what I mean? Skies who haven't been fucked right. Those, they're generally food and pussy go a long way. It really does. We're not very complicated creatures. Everybody. That's true. It's. When I hear women sit or like talking about, well, I don't know about this and guy, what were they thinking and all that way too complicated? Bring it back about base level. Like, you know, when you, those roly bugs and you touch them and they roll up in a, that's what a man is. It's stimuli reaction. That's all we are. I'm not even kidding. Yeah. With women thing on the tip of the dick and he hasn't had that in a while. He's gonna pathetic fucking putty. So works. I'll do it. I'm very few factors. Um, for you want man. So, uh, here's a quote from the book here. Quote, Jill had this rare ability to spot vulnerabilities in a man. Dick hasn't been touched right. Right. And she focused on their weaknesses like a hungry cheetah surveying a herd of wildebeests to pick out a prey animal that was too young or too old. lame or sick. Men were her prey and when she was on a blood scent, she didn't deviate from her target. She was never heard those two words together. Blood scent? Me neither. That's dangerous. That is crazy. She was a sultry temptress who could addle men a male minds with her sexual charisma, serve as a charming dinner companion, or chat knowledgeably about sports cars, guns, or business. And she knows cars. She knows cars. She knows diving. She knows horses. She knows fucking every channel's thunderbirds. That's right out of the book that quote. Now this relationship is volatile with derosa. They are going to get married, like I said on that day, then get divorced, then get remarried, then get divorced again. Two marriages. In like a two and a half year period, they're gonna get married in divorce twice, which is impressive. She's 30. She's 30 at this point, watch, she's born in 43 or 44. She's starting to push in her mid 30s now. No, no, it's fine. Now the crazy part is that second divorce. Not quite the divorce she's looking for. She gets a divorce in Haiti from him, which hey, everyone shocker the Haitian legal system as a zero jurisdiction over anything that happens in the United States of America. American marriages are not dissolved in Haiti. In case you were wondering, as there's an option, they where you can go to, I know people back in the day used to go to Reno, because if you establish residency for six weeks, you get a divorce. Haiti is not that, okay, it's not Reno. And as as as as as minuscule as their ability and jurisdiction is today, 70 was 50 years ago. So much less. So much less. So this was not recognized in the United States as a divorce. It just didn't work. So they remain married and well, you'll be shocked to find out. I'll tell you when they're finally actually divorced, you'll be like, holy shit. Thraft. What a fuck. Okay. What was his name again? Lewis Derosa. That's husband five and six. Marriage five and six. That's also husband five and six. Husband five. Yeah, husband five. So well, yeah, we'll keep it up. Just let's say marriage is equal husbands. We'll just say so. Okay, that's six now. We're going to call it six. Okay. Now March 27th, 1978 in Ohio now. Why? She gets around, man. She meets another man. We'll call him number seven, lucky number seven over here. Eldon Metzger is his name. This is in Lima, Ohio. She marries this guy. His name is Eldon Dwayne Metzger. He's an Indiana auctioneer and auction organizer. Oh boy. Talks real fast and gets shit done. Hey, come on. We're going to put your head on my dick head right there. Take it to push the out. Take it. Push the out there. Spread them legs. Let's go. There's air up and dick on down down. Balls it in balls. That's right. That's right. That's right. Oh, and I'm going to come in. Oh, and sold. And you know what? He just yells sold when he comes. That's how it works. Yeah. Yeah, it's like my balls now. And it's like my balls and it's like my balls around. There we go. And we're going to stroke the dick stroke. There we go up there. Show me the pussy. Tits on my face. That's all right there. Tits on my face. Tits on my face right here. We got to my face. We do wonder. Do wonder. Tits on my face. Take it. So that would be so fun. Yeah. I'd beat off to that point. That'd be amazing. Auctioneer porn. Happens real fast. Oh, what's going on? Or slow, but he's saying it's so fast. It feels like it's happening fast. I feel like you've got to whack it really fast to that. Just to keep up is really you got to keep your pace going hard, I think. So that now she married him, by the way, while she's still married, because the Haitian divorce doesn't take this is a short marriage. It ends very quickly, very, very quickly. And we don't really know the exacts, but we know that it ends quickly and that's that. Okay. January 6th, 1983. So she's 40 or 39 now, depending. She's in Indiana now, back to there, full circle. She meets Carl V. Steely. Carl V. Steely. He's the headmaster of an Indiana prep school that her two sons attended. She's doing fine. She's got kids in prep schools. That's like me. Well, yeah, who knows what's going on. So this will be husband number eight. Carl, okay. Still legally married to Haitian divorce guy there, Derosa, obviously. Now this relationship to Carl Steely is the most stable one of her life. Okay. So far, it's long, it's stable. They're going to be together for years. He treated her sons really well. Yeah. He loves to ski and would take the family on trips. Where, Jimmy? Steamboat spring. That's right. God dammit. Steamboat springs Colorado. Man from Indiana loves it. Wow. It's like it's too flat. I got to get out to some hills. So they dreamed of retiring to steamboat springs and going old there. Now on one of the trips, they decided to invest in a small property in steamboat and use it as a B and B. Brilliant. We're going to have a little hotel, a little bed and breakfast. Yeah. And this was a, you know, smart, it's a tourist area. Yeah. Get into it. So Jill persuaded Carl Steely that she should handle the business end because he's a teacher and she's better with money. Listen, and I'll just stay here. Yeah. You're not a business person. Yeah. You know, I've taken British literature once, so I should be able to do this. So the plan was for Jill to take the boys, move to steamboat, buy and renovate the property in both of their names and then Carl would join them during school breaks. You fuck off and I'll just be here. That's right. So Carl arrives after Jill's been there a while and Jill essentially just pushes them out. She's got her own life set up now. She doesn't need him anymore. I don't need to anymore. Yeah. His money had all gone into the business and he finds that his name is not on it. She has not, she's taken his name off. He's done this all in her own name. Well, her and her son Seth is also part of the set. Seth is on it too. So those two are the names on the ownership. So it's interesting. Later on, he has asked, why would, how does a guy like you end up marrying someone like that? Like you're a stable guy, headmaster of a school, all this shit. He said, quote, if you were to meet her and talk to her, you'd think she's just the greatest person you ever met. Why would all these people marry her if she weren't that way? Yeah. That's the reason you go box incredibly. Yeah. And also if she was that way, all those men wouldn't have divorced her. So that's the problem. When you look at the marriages, yeah, but there's that many divorces. That's a, well, she presents really well. And then up front, it's so hard to keep up what you present bullshit. It's called. Yeah. So my dad was married nine times. It's hard to keep that bullshit up. It's when scammers are, it's scammers. They can't keep it up forever. Eventually, it falls apart. So that's what it is. And now Jill is in steamboat springs with her kids sometime around 1990, 1990, 1991 is where this starts. Okay. The property at the center here was a cluster of vintage tourist cottages at Oak and Seven Streets in downtown steamboat. Jill and the boys are renovating them into a bed and breakfast here. And that's what's going on here. That's amazing. They've got a series of them. Yeah. The property is a bunch of like single hot space. Basically, I think is how it works here. So people who see Jill describe her as someone who does not blend in at all here. No, not not blending in. She blends in as well here as I do in fucking Alabama, just doesn't yeah, doesn't answer out. And these people are dressed like dickheads. They have like Patagonia coats on and she's like, look at my tits. Yeah, it's a different type of deal. There's by the way, an oxygen documentary that we'll talk about at the ML give the name and everything like that. But a lot of quotes are going to come from that documentary. One person said, she was a glamorous divorcee looking for love. Although she's married to two people currently. I mean, she is definitely a divorcee. If you ever were around her and saw her, there's nobody else in the room but her. She was a provocative dresser, but not something that would shock you, just something that would intrigue you. She knew not to go too far. Yeah. Then you're you're you're pricing yourself out at that point. She's the neighbor from Grumpy old men. Yes. Yeah, she just goes out with her. Which one? Sophia LeRen or Anne Margaret Anne Margaret, but because that was the first one, then Sophia LeRen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really one up to her. So everybody what a real hot chick looks like in her 80s. 70s, whatever she was. You've been looking [BLANK_AUDIO] like Anne Margaret from like the '50s and '60s. - Yeah, she was very crazy. - Oh my God, she was ridiculously hot back then. Yeah. Now, this is from a different book than we were doing here. This quote says, "She would come on very strong with men. She dressed flamboyantly, she dressed provocatively. She talked a lot. She made quite a stir whenever she showed up in the room." Which is basically the same thing in different words. So, she told people she was here from Culver, Indiana, which was technically true. She speaks with a southern accent, which not a lot of people in Steamboat Springs, Colorado do. She's cheerful, real sociable, interesting and interested. But they're renovating this property. So, where do they have to keep going when you're renovating somewhere? - Home Depot. - No home Depot yet. So, this is the hardware store. - Yeah, it is. - The hardware. - Yeah, 90 equivalent of a small town home Depot type thing. So, for renovations, she's always going to this hardware store and she becomes a regular at the Boggs hardware on Lincoln Avenue. - Yeah. - That's where she met the part owner of the store and the guy working behind the counter, Gerald William Boggs goes by Jerry. He was born May 27th, 1941. Spoiler alert, he'll be husband number nine. - Yeah. - Her parents are William goes by Harold. It's William Harold goes by, so nobody goes by their fucking first name except for this guy who goes by Jerry. But yeah, his dad goes by Harold. His mother's name is Edith Sylvia and she goes by Sylvia. - Sylvia. - I don't get it, okay. - They give him the nice name as the middle name. - They get, yeah. He's got a brother named Doug who will come up and awful lot in this story as we go on here. Now, he's been in Steamboat Springs pretty much his whole life. His family has had this hardware business since 1939. Boggs hardware. They are the, I mean, they were like the folks. That's it, they are the store in town, you go to. He went through school and Steamboat Springs graduated in '59, attended the University of Colorado till '64, graduated was a political science major with a minor in Russian language. Wow, not bad. Fall of '63, he enlisted in the US Army. And wanted to get into military intelligence. That's why he studied Russian. So he could get in, it would be like in 2002 if you were studying Arabic to get into intelligence. It's the same thing. So after basic training, he went to military intelligence school as well. - Right. - So he's getting into that. Fall of '65, Gerald was sent to Vietnam with the first cavalry division. And he said, "Hey, this isn't very intelligent. Why are we here?" - So it's very dumb. I've looked it over and I don't see much intelligence in this plan. This is bad. - Very little. - Very little to gain a lot to lose here. So he's with the first cavalry division and they set up a base camp and it's a helicopter division, this first cavalry. In the fall of '66, he has a furlough, he comes home and he volunteers for another year of duty in Vietnam. - Really. - Sounds awful. Fall of '67, he's discharged. He has awarded the bronze star for his service in Vietnam. - Done two tours. - Done, done, done two tours. - That's right. - My God. - So he comes home and he works in the family store, Bog's Hardware. Also takes pilot training under a government program from his military service. He can take. - Nice. - Before he finished his training, he was qualified to pilot multi-engine aircraft. So not just a propeller, you know, multi-engine deal. So he's a pilot. He runs the store, the Bog's Hardware store, with his younger brother Doug. And it's very simple. Doug is the front of house, works with customers. Jerry handles the paperwork and the supply orders. - Make sure he get enough hammers. - Front and back of house, that's it. He was also here, he is extremely regimented, Jerry. - Like a military man would be. - Like a military man, like you have to be, if you're flying a plane, everything has to be right and perfect and that's what he does. He goes, does the same things at the same exact times every day. - Whoa, he's that guy. - Same place for breakfast every day, where he has the exact same thing. - Right. - Like, you know, they see him getting out of his car and they're already saying, "Fuckin' get this" and that going like, if they know what he wants. - He was ready for Jerry, Jerry. - He was on his black coffee, yeah. - Gonna want that. He went to lunch at the same time every day. They said it's just, he was, one person said, he was very rote in his existence. And that was just the way he was, he was just, very regimented. - Why would she even be attracted to this? This failed for once upon a time. - That's well, I mean. - Marine man. - But this is the type of person who wants to settle down. - Yeah. - That's why, 'cause if you get some wild guy, he won't settle down with you. He'll be doing the same shit you're doing. You gotta find the opposite. So, every day he ate breakfast at a cafe called the shack and he ordered the same thing every day. Eggs, hash browns, toast, coffee. Good back. - No basic, yeah. - Real basic here. He's very beloved around here. He's a, known as a kind of a modest guy, kind, not a jackass to anybody, not a loud guy. And you know, big guy like that. He volunteered in a couple of political campaigns. - Huh. - A coworker of his said that he was kind of, he was, he's like, locals, local. You know, he's lived here his whole life. - Yeah. - Family else of those. - Mr. Steamboat. - Mr. Steamboat. She said, he just got along well with everybody. He talked to everybody, he listened to them. If you'd seen Boggs, you would have seen Steamboat. So, he is Jerry the Dragon Steamboat. - That's what he is. - He's all up for it. He's got a friend named Thane Gilliland and he described him very interesting. He said, quote, he was the good old boy. And yet he could sit down and have a conversation with just about anybody. There aren't many people that could do that. He was a real person. There was no pretense about Jerry Boggs. - Okay. - So that's the guy. By 1990, he's around 50 years old, never married. - Yeah. - Living the bachelor life has a house on Westside, a West Hill side court. He's got money, he's got a family business. Got his family in here by. - He's a catch. - He's a catch at this point. If you're looking for to settle down. They said everybody called him, basically he was everybody's uncle Jerry at this point. - Oh, God. - 'Cause he's the 50-year-old bachelor. - And that's professional, but nobody fucks Uncle Jerry. - Not usually and Jerry's kind of lonely. And that's the thing. And then here comes all Jill Coit in the door, looking for supplies with her tits popping. So, Jerry asked her out. - Yeah. - Fuck and he shot a shot. Why not? - Yeah. - Most eligible motherfucker here. - That's it, so he, and he fell hard. One of the people that knew him said, "I think when Jill came along, she showed an attraction to him." And that was exciting to him. And he fell head over heels in love with this woman. - Yeah. - Because he's not used to a hot. First of all, there's not a lot of a hot, single women walking around in his age range and then their names are all generation. It's just beautiful, it's perfect. - It's perfect. So they become together, they become an item and they go to shit together, they go to the ski ball, which is a benefit for steamboat springs winter sports club together. He starts helping her renovate the cottages as well, 'cause he knows how to do shit like that. - All right. - Then about seven months after they met, Jill tells Jerry she has got a big announcement to make. Jerry, no pregnant. - How could she say it? How could she say the words? - I'm pregnant. - Jill. - Not only that, she's also, you know, pushing, she's in her fucking forties at this point. There's the other things. - Right, so it's gonna be good. - She's in like her mid forties. So, especially in 1990, that was considered real. - And you've been drinking silver water. Who knows if this is good for the area? - No fucking idea, man. So it's interesting. Now April 4th, 1991, he becomes, marriage nine, husband eight. - Yeah. - That's it. So it's so funny too, because if you look over this, it's so confusing. If you look at all the sources of this case, 'cause some people will say he's marriage nine, he's husband nine, some people say husband eight, but he's marriage nine, husband eight. If you, this is not easy to sort out. Let me put it that way. So that's how it goes. And this guy, same thing, people close to him found out after the fact, same thing she did with Clark Coit. - Didn't tell anybody. - She doesn't want, like, the guy to have an opportunity to have anyone talk them out of it, I feel like. - Right. - Don't tell anybody, we'll get married right now. - What's going on right now? - One person said, got a call on a Monday that he got married on Saturday. - Jesus Christ. - That's it. Jerry, by the way, does not know. He is her eighth slash ninth husband. There's no idea. - Oh, fuck. - She also doesn't know. He also doesn't know that he is, that she's still legally married also. By the way, the Haitian divorce didn't come through to 1985. So she was like married and divorced and all that from somebody else before that even happened. - Wow. - So. - And he doesn't know that she's not fucking pregnant 'cause she can't. - And that's the problem here. He remodels part of the house as a nursery. - No. - Bye. - Oh, bought cribs and children's furniture. - No. He's sitting there at night at the end of the night just reading how to be a parent books and fucking Dr. Spock and reading all that shit. They look they have cups now with their sections. Yeah, he's reading what to expect when you're expecting over here. We can milk you in the living room. Isn't this amazing? We can make it fun That's what he's doing. Wow. People are stopping him on the street to congratulate here. You're having a baby congratulations Yeah, they said, you know, oh shit, and they said where and he would say, you know, where are a friend of his would come up Say congratulations. We're so happy you're married. Now you're going to be a father. This is great. Everything's wonderful Some couple months go by and Jill's the same size Yeah, and then another month or two goes by and It's just to buy fake bellies, but no, this is just wild women and Jerry's social circle and family start to let go Yeah, when you're pregnant, you start showing like with the four months three four months She's like six month pregnant and she's is pretty skinny. So Jesus. This is looking like that documentary. Yeah, do what? Do you do what with Wade there? Um, so they would say you're sure aren't showing any signs of pregnant She's pregnant seems she go. Yeah, I carry small and I'm lucky. I guess, you know what I mean? That's what she would say Then out of nowhere because now she has to figure something out. What are you gonna you got to have a baby? You better start producing a stomach pretty soon or people are gonna start to freak out. So she runs away She leaves takes off heads to Texas or to New Orleans and somewhere. We're not sure She's taking the kids with her. I don't think so. I think she left the kids up there Then she comes back and says I had a girl The baby was born No, no, no, her name's Laura L.A. R.A. Laura But she died. Oh, she's dead too. So she's dead. So I'm sorry. Yeah, baby died. I took off had the baby. It died my bed That's it. Jerry said I don't believe you Uh-huh. Now believe it. Um, I just don't believe it here. Uh, he said at at the time I believe there was no child and yet every time Jill came to steamboat she would go around telling people that she had a child And he was like, I don't think there's a baby and everyone else is like, hey, congratulations. Have you had a daughter and then it died I'm gonna need a birth or death certificate. I need something a fucking picture of you holding a newborn would be Start. Let's get a start going. Just that very small wristlet that has her name on it Maybe you in a hospital in a bed with a bay of some shit So the family Jerry's family starts to get a little suspicious the boxes. Uh, her brother Doug the most suspicious. Yeah Not only the pregnancy Doug just noticed that he seemed like it seemed like Jill was a little too interested in money And especially the finances of the family business Well too interested in that he thought so he thought she was a gold digger and didn't trust her He was disturbed enough to hire a private detective to look into her background which would be The greatest day in a private detective's life normally you look into shit. It's kind of boring They'd be like, oh my god. I found so much cool shit. This is crazy Yeah, the most time it's just is your spouse cheating. This is show me the marriages Yeah, he that's he would come back and go all right sit down. I'll tell you all about it You got about three hours We can put it on Netflix because it's gonna take a while This is gonna be the longest story you've ever heard. It's it's a story So the investigator turns to this family or the Doug tires an investigator who's a family friend. Yeah And this investigator said it just developed in the such a story. I was shocked Yeah, because they said it was you know a routine background would bring on yeah, uh string. He's just pulling keeps coming and coming So what comes back here is four different birth certificates. She found this is why we don't know what year She's born she has four different birth certificates or she figured out how to steal identities and shit Yeah, she knew how to do that back then So she has four different birth certificates and you go okay, but you can find birth certificates Yeah And like like I saw on the ghost in the wires book. I read the He went to a place in South Dakota where a small town and he stole a bunch of birth certificates and embossed them all With the state seal and then he could just fill them in as babies died around when he wanted to be This though not only did she have four do you have or she have four birth certificates? She had three social security cards That's the legal that's the federal government issuing that that's not some fucking dinky office and Milanoa are South Dakota that's Washington DC is fucking yeah, that's that's very hard to get At least 15 aliases are found Aliens says she's got 15 names that she goes by 15 names four birth certificates three social security cards and fucking eight husbands and What are seven husbands and eight marriages? That's what this guy finds crazier that she With all of the with all those identities. She still marries under her real name She under her yellow husbands name there the dead one. Yeah, that's what's crazy. Um, then they find They find Clark Coit they find out about she's got a dead husband and Houston that died under very Suspicious circumstances still open matter found the same articles in the newspaper I fucking found had to go to a library and look through microfeesh But still found it Yeah, they're looking with their finger Yeah, found marriages in Indiana Mississippi, Texas, Ohio, Indiana again Colorado. Yeah They he found out she's got a dead husband who after he died she went into a Psychiatric hospital where she stayed for an extended period of time and was never questioned She was adopted by a 90 something year old man right and She had a baby with a major in the Marines who the baby wasn't real didn't exist So this is the second time she's done the baby trick now And that she has a Haitian divorce that wasn't actually a divorce and she's still married She's still married to this one and that one so It's fucking wild this investigator the investigator said she is such a mess that literally I could not determine what year she was born Oh, no with 100% certainty. Yeah, I don't know what your first thing is to establish more to that I don't know who she she's definitely still married to somebody. I just don't know sure Yeah, she is married. Well, she's married to Haitian divorce guy Well, she's got to is she still married to the first guy too. No, she's yeah, she's a derosa guy I think she's oh no, she's married to the steely guy more think still yeah, no Stephen Moore's the second guy think that eventually came through while she was married to the third one The Haitian divorce came through in 85 when she was already married to Carl Steely and then the Carl Steely This they haven't been divorced yet. I believe when she's still married to him or she's married Jerry Yeah, so this is a fucking mess. It's very confused. She does not clean up anything Nope, and they said when she married Jerry in April 91 she was still married to Carl Steely so yeah One of the books said here was a woman with about 10 12 14 aliases Here was a woman with about the same number of marriages Here was a woman who probably had been involved in a number of insurance scams and financial scams Hence all the aliases and shit This one thinks she's untouchable she really had gotten away with a lot of criminal behavior Well, she she is untouchable unless Doug hears her talk about the family business That's it. He gets his ears go up right up for you hold on now So the investigator basically said that They said she was cut from the same cloth as the black widow is what the investigator said Um, oh, and they found out here's another thing. She got a fucking hysterectomy is another thing they found out. Yes Jerry's like, well, that makes sense So Doug takes all this and brings it to his brother and goes, yeah, Jerry am I right or right? Yeah So in December 3rd 1991 The is annulment day Yeah, okay, the marriage lasted about seven or eight months including a fake baby a fake dead baby and other things Their marriage is annulled her and Jerry's okay December 23rd 1991 20 days later Her divorce from Carl comes through so she's been married and had it annulled while she was still married to Carl Wow That's fucking crazy by the way Carl after all this tall and in his divorced filings and everything talked about he came to suspect that Jill tried to poison him Sun several occasions and had tried to have him run over by a truck a couple of oh Jesus She his marriage. This is his summary of the marriage quote. I'm thankful to be alive You should be yeah, so for the first time in a long time she's single Yeah, she's actually single actually not married to anybody this point that I can think of yeah So February 2nd 1992 she gets married again. What where vagus of course? Why not she hasn't got married there yet So she's trying to get all the states This is Roy Carroll with one two L's two R's two L's Roy Carroll. He's a navy chief petty officer there and yeah Now, while that's happening, there's a civil fight going on between Jill and Jerry, which is wild. Okay. This is from later on a court decision. She was embroiled in a bitter civil suit against her ex-husband who was considered the victim in that case to lawsuit arose over his claimed interest in a bed and breakfast in steamboat springs, Colorado, which Jill owned with a son by a previous marriage set. And apparently, she apparently had given him a fraudulent deed of trust, encumbering the property in order to avoid execution of a judgment obtained in a divorce proceeding by one of her former husbands. So she gave him the deed so that they couldn't take it away, but it wasn't a real deed. But it wasn't a real deed. So he wants his portion of the property. Exactly. So she's trying to keep it from both husbands, which is wild. So yeah, basically, he won a money judgment against Jill, steely did. So to keep him from collecting that and going after the bed and breakfast, she gives it to him. A deed of trust is a recorded lean. It looks as though the property is already pledged to somebody else to secure a debt because that's what it was. And they say that the paperwork represented that Jerry had lent her $100,000 and used this for collateral, which isn't true. Like that's the way that she can keep it from Carl. So that's how that goes. But he put a bunch of money into the property himself, though anyway. After the annulment, she sues Jerry to get his name off of it. They say after she filed the civil action against him seeking a release of the deed of trust, he counterclaimed for intentional inflection of emotional distress and outrageous conduct. If there's one thing she's guilty of, it is outrageous conduct. Right. Even if it's no crimes, outrageousness is for sure. The counterclaimed alleged among other things that Jill had falsely asserted she had given birth to a child fathered by them. So holy shit. Now Jerry wanted a jury. Jill just wanted a property ruling just that Jerry said, no, no, I want to get in front of a jury and tell them about a fake pregnancy, a fake dead child. I want to tell about everything big of me. What my private investigator found. I want to know about everything. His friend Thane said he wanted to expose her for what she was and what she had done. So it wouldn't happen to somebody else. Okay. She is currently married to Roy Carroll, number that, all right. Married there that they live in Roy Carroll's home in Houston, I guess she left him before the end of 92. This is a short live marriage again. They split up, but guess what they don't do? Get divorced. Get divorced. Yeah. That's fucking wild. That's expensive and time consuming. So this allows her to use civilian living quarters of military. So they said because one of her ex-husbands had been in the military, she was allowed to use civilian living quarters located at Lowry, Lowry Air Force Base in Denver. So she moves on. She finds another guy, 1993, Michael O. Backus, BACK U.S. He's born September 9th, 1945, but the same age as her. He's a Vietnam veteran again. She likes a vet. Well, that's a, it's that generation and all we're most of them we're, yeah. He worked as a telephone repairman based in your favorite place, Greeley, Colorado, which you call the center of all white trash universe. It's the sun that white trash orbits the music. It's the area that everybody, everybody has that shitty place in every state. Yes. That's the one. So he's just a blue collar guy, telephone repairman, normal guy, nothing crazy. Jill begins using his last name, although they don't actually get married and she hasn't changed her last name. She starts calling herself Jill Backus. Anyway, either way, she's still married to Roy Carroll and she still uses the name of husband number three. It was killed in his house. Okay. So it's still quite, you know, there's a civil trial with Jerry. This is all going to go to trial and everything is going to come out now. Jerry, Jerry, they're going to trial. Everyone's going to know everything about her. It's going to be, it's going to be public fucking knowledge. Yeah. It's, it's going down to the courthouse and get court documents. So this is set for late October, 1993, very end of October in '95. Why wouldn't she just settle? She doesn't have the money. I don't think to settle. I don't think she wants it. It's crazy. So October, 1993, Jill and Michael Backus tell everybody that they went camping at Kelly Flatz in Poder Canyon, POU, DRE, Podery, Pudery, how do you say that? I don't know, West, that's what I was thinking, maybe powder, West of Fort Collins on the front range over the trash areas, that's over there by fucking rifle. Yeah. So the campsites are more than 150 miles from steamboat over the continental divide, which again, Donner Party, we've, we've talked a lot about this area and that Donner Party shit. So now they believe they, they definitely at some point go to on this camping trip and are in this canyon because they're seen and known and they're there. Okay. Thursday, October 21st, 1993. Jerry, Jerry Boggs here. Okay. This is what he does. He eats breakfast at the shack, has eggs, hash brown, toast and coffee, as he does every damn day. That old basic ass breakfast. That's right. Midday here, he went home early from the store that day. Oh, changed the schedule. And I guess around noon, he went home for whatever reason. Okay. Now, we're not sure exactly why he went home because that's weird for him. But in the afternoon, in his neighborhood that day, West Hill side court, a local woman, a neighbor saw two people walking down the street that did not look right. Yeah. They had their hands stuffed in their pockets and he said, this is October. It's not that cold yet, but they had like bulky shit on. Uh-huh. And nobody else in Colorado bulks up until it's time to bulk up. Yeah. I know. But that's exactly the way it is, especially like in the spring, Holy Christ, in New York and the spring. They're like, what is it? 47 today? Everybody's got T-shirt on. Like, uh-uh, the sun's out. Don't worry about it. It's warm as fuck today. I watched these shorts back in fucking August. I want to wear them again. That's what it's about, dude. So apparently they, they look like hunters. They were dressed like hunters. The weather was mild. One was like a bigger guy and then the other person was like a smaller person wearing a bulky jacket and a baseball cap and a mustache that quote looked kind of funny. Goofy as mustache. Goofy, uh, which is interesting. And they said that the walk of this person and the physique made it look like it was a woman with a mustache with a big mustache. That felt as really wobbling his ass. All right. That or that as an ugly lady, I'm not sure. So the other one was a tall slim man wearing tan jacket and blue jeans. So I'll read from the book. They said there was no strange vans or trucks parked nearby nearby. They weren't wearing uniforms to indicate they were there to deliver or repair appliances or anything like that. Considering their weird get-ups, it was also obvious they weren't door to door salesmen. They didn't look like the type of characters anyone would willingly open the door for. So they said that was one of the of the bothersome aspects of their disappearing, uh, their disturbing appearance in the quiet small town neighborhood. They weren't recognizable as people who lived in any of the nearby homes and didn't appear to have any actual business in the area. They looked so menacing and alarming that the neighbor that saw her saw these people, uh, this her that saw them was actually on her way to the spa and decided to turn around, go home and make sure all her doors were locked. Really? And not go out. She stayed home and locked the doors because she didn't trust these people. She thought her house was going to get robbed if she left. Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't usually do that, but she did it here. She said one of the guy, one of the people had turned and glanced at her as she drove past the image. It was something about the look that she found disturbing. So, um, so that she said it was a relief when they drove away down the street after a few minutes, but then about two o'clock in the afternoon, they were back again wearing the same stupid outfits and cruising slowly and aimlessly through the neighborhood. Yeah. And they said they're just weird and, you know, it looked like they were like dressed up for Halloween, but Halloween's a week away. Right. What's going on here? So anyway, that's Thursday, the 21st, that's the day. Then Friday, October 22nd, 1993, Jerry is the one who opens the hardware store, like 730. Yeah. The hardware store stays closed. It's he just doesn't show up. Now Doug knows his brother does not just not show up for work. Right. So, he heads right to the house and will West Hill side court. He calls. Nobody answers. So he drives. to his house and finds the front door locked. So he goes around to the back door, which opens into the kitchen, opens the door and stepped inside. And I will read from the book here. After parking in the drive and approaching the house, Doug found his brother curled up dead on the floor of a utility room just off the kitchen. They said, "Blood is all over the place. It's splattered and spattered on the floor smeared on the wall and on the kitchen door, which is behind Jerry's head. The kitchen door was unlocked as it usually was, but it was blocked by Jerry's body. So he couldn't even get all the way in the kitchen. He was lying on his left side wearing a flannel shirt, blue jacket, pants, and heavy shoes. So either he just came in or he was about to go out. One of the two. They said the handle of a dust mop was balanced at a 45 degree angle on his right hip. They couldn't figure out what that was all about with the mop end on the floor. And he was already dead by then, very dead. Doug called 911, but it was just no helping anybody. Once the police arrived, as soon as they got there, they didn't even talk to Doug yet. They pulled into the driveway, get out of the car and Doug's yelling, "That bitch killed my brother." "That bitch killed my fucking bitch killed my brother." God damn it. He's pissed right away. So they described it as overkill what happened to Jerry in there. He shot three times with a 22 caliber pistol. Yeah, it's familiar, which is interesting. Shots were to the chest. Apparently, he'd also been beaten in the head with a shovel. Badly enough that one of the blows split his face wide open from the top of his head downward. Oh, Jesus. A cord edge of the shovel. The edge of the, he has something like a whack pretty hard. One of those ones that kind of comes to more of a flat, not totally flat, like a dirt shovel, as opposed to like a snow shovel. According to a couple of sources too, there was evidence that someone tried to strangle him as well. Then they find something that they can't figure out either. They can't figure out because they find a set of marks on the right side of his neck or cheek. Just a set of marks that they can't figure out what the fuck made these marks. They're not gunshot wounds. They're not muzzle stamp of a contact gunshot. They're small paired marks. They couldn't identify what made the marks. They couldn't figure it out. They look around the scene. That doesn't help much. Very little evidence on the scene to no forced entry. Nothing stolen. No fingerprints that led to anybody else except for Jerry. The shovel, which had been used as a weapon, had no prints on it and the only blood it had on it was from Jerry. And it's still there. It's still there. Yeah. Now they never find a gun. There's no gun around. No 22 that worked here. The JD Hayes, who's the director of public safety for the police department here. He was a captain at the time of the murder police captain. He was sitting in his office when his radio started going reporting that there's a dead guy. And he said that it's out of the ordinary because we don't have this kind of serious crime often. There's just a sense of we need to pull together. We need to find the person who did this. Absolutely. And that's the deal. They said it's like somebody had perpetrated this crime in your family and we all take it very seriously, especially a guy who's lived there as whole life. He's not like some tourist or somebody who just moved here last year. Everyone knows him in the whole damn town. So it makes sense. So they got to figure out what happened in there. And they said he was attacked inside the house pretty obvious. And they said the shovel, the three shots he was hit with, somebody tried to strangle him and we don't know what those marks are. So they can't figure it out. But the medical examiner preliminarily is going to put the attack on at the afternoon of the day before. Like when he went home early. Okay. Nobody in the neighborhood reported hearing shots. Not even the nosy lady who was worried about people driving around. Really? No one heard shit. So they do talk to the woman on the street who said, I die sought to fucking people walking and then driving dressed for a hunting trip. One was wearing a mustache that didn't belong with the belong. The last year last week was. Yeah. Weird. So people freak out locally. This is a big freak out moment for people. There's a lot less people there than there is now too as well. So the JD Hayes guy said that, you know, it was this was a very open friendly community. No murders. So it sent shock waves through the town. A reporter for the steamboat pilot Brad Balchuno sir. Balcuno's one of the two. He's got a bunch of quotes coming up. So I'll just give his name out now. He said, he remembered how fast the shit went from. Oh, we had him, you know, someone's dead too. Holy fuck, this is getting weird. Yeah. He said it's one of those things where you don't realize the magnitude of it right away. It all seemed pretty surreal to me. It just kept getting bigger and bigger. That's a pretty far fetched movie plot. They started getting on their like, okay, this is get how many husbands? What the fuck? So police immediately turned to Jill, the person who in less than a week's time, they're going to go to a civil trial with all this shit. So Doug is the one who told him, he said, that bitch killed my brother. So do that shit. And he said, by the way, in case you're wondering who she is, I got a big file that'll save you a whole lot of fucking time. Boy, do I have a pamphlet of him? Here it is. Yeah. Because otherwise, then they have to look into her and figure it out. I already got someone who did the fucking paper, the footwork for you here. So they were like, man, they look at the file. They're like, holy shit. This is a lot than the bad person. The civil trials coming up in less than a week. And they're like, one of the detectives said initially, we tried not to focus like on one person. They wanted to take it as a as a global thing and figure it out from there. And they said, and things just kind of kept leading us back to quite and back us. She was the only one with a motive. Right. Nobody just liked this guy. So they said each piece of evidence doesn't necessarily mean it's Jill that did it for sure, but they paint a picture where it kind of starts to build things. The detectives said, I call it the pebbles of a case that kind of weigh in favor of a guilty verdict. He said, we gather all these little pebbles and we put them on the scale of justice. And hopefully they tip the favor in favor of a guilty verdict. Yeah. Yeah. You add up all the small things. You don't have the big smoking gun. You know, that sort of thing. He said, he and the other detectives really threw themselves into this case. He said, you go to bed thinking about it. You wake up thinking about it. And all day long, you're thinking about it. It's the ultimate type of investigation because so much as it's stake, you represent the dead victim. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So now where the fuck was Jill? That's question one. Where was Jill? Where? Where were you, Jill? She says, well, I was 150 miles away. Uh-huh. We were camping. Oh, I said, we've been camping a kelly flats there. I don't know what you mean. And they were like, okay, that's fine. The thing is though, the alibi works if the murder happened late in the day because they were there that night. Right. The night the Thursday night where they think he was killed Thursday afternoon. Right. But if it's earlier than that, then we got questions. Yes. They said if Jerry was killed in the evening, the drive back across the mountains would have made it hard for them to be in both places. But if he was killed in the afternoon, it makes it a lot easier for them to be able to get back in time, you know, through the darkness and all that. So all of this depends on the time of death, which is normally very hard to pin down as we talk about a lot. So they needed to answer, okay, the only way we can figure this out is do we know when he had eaten and where he had eaten? Yeah. Or what and where? So they go to that. They say his routine is super reliable. So that's good. So they know certain things. He ate at the shack nearly every day. He ordered his eggs as hash brown as toast in his coffee. And they said, if his stomach contained breakfast, any of that, you know, when he ate it exactly. And we know that he died within a few hours of eating it before he could be digested. Right. If it contained something else, if he had eaten a meal later, then the time of death is going to move later and more in favor of Jill's alibi. Sure. So they sent these stomach context contents to these two people that we'll talk about these Bach and Norris. Yeah. Um, these are two like they do, they do botany mixed with medicines. Very interesting for you to shut out. Yeah. It's, it's, it's grown in the world. That's a gross thing to have to have. Oh, it's to have here's some stomach context tense of a dead person gross. That's the stomach strength that I can't fathom because if I saw it, I'd throw up. I would he couldn't do that. And they sift through it. Yeah. They said at death, the pyloric valve in the stomach shuts down. So no more digesting. Yeah. No more bio. They said plant cells have tough walls that survived chewing and digestion far better than protein. It's really looked for plants. They said under a microscope, a potato looks like a potato even after it's eaten. And the same thing with an onion just looks like an onion. So they find potatoes. - Oh. - This is a good sign. Hash browns are potatoes. The eggs are protein. They would have went through and digested quicker, same with the toast. They also find onions. Okay. Now this is a problem because they go to the shack and they say dear hash browns have onions in them and they say they don't, which is fantastic. And I'd order your hash browns all the time. I hate onions and hash browns. - I'll tell you to put jams in mine. - Yeah, you can have it, but here's why I don't like it. It's something that I don't like the onions. I don't like that there's pieces that you can't tell are onion or potato in there and shit. And I'm like, oh, I don't like, I want to know what I'm eating. So that's what, okay. So anyway, no onions in this. - Okay. - So they said if you eat onions, he may have eaten somewhere else later in the day and now this could fuck the whole time of death up. - Sure. - So they go to the shack and this is an amazing thing. Imagine you're a short-order cook. You work at the shack. You're making breakfast. You're a Denny's Cook essentially here. - Yeah, it's a shit diner in steamboat springs. - So yeah, these investigators go to the shack and go in the kitchen and they go listen to the cook. Do us a favor. Pretend Jerry just ordered breakfast. We're gonna watch you make it. Just make it the way you'd normally make it. So now these cops are standing there. Arms crossed. Watching a guy make fucking eggs and shit. So. - Don't worry about the health conditions. Just make it. - Just make it. Here's what happens. This is why you get sick all the time. - Yeah. Oh, I know exactly why. - And you fucking love breakfast. And you shouldn't love breakfast out. So. - I love breakfast. Breakfast hates me. - Yeah. Well, you love eating out for breakfast. - Yeah. - And you stop. Wait till dinner when there's less eggs. - Yeah. - So the cook made the hash browns on the same grill where he cooked onions for other orders and he turned the potatoes with the same spatula he used for the onions. So the onions weren't supposed to be in there, but they come along with the spatula. - Cross determination. - You're gonna get an onion or two and your mash browns basically. So the sample they prepared when they tested it contains onion and potato. And it's exactly what's in his stomach. So they figure out finally the stray onions came from breakfast at the shack. Now they understand breakfast was the last meal. He was killed within a few hours of eating it, putting the murder in the early or middle part of the afternoon, October 21st. Plenty of time for Jill and Michael to get back on the road, get back to their campsite and look all fucking good here. So they said, by the way, this brought the attention of these plant people to look at shit in the stomach to the rest of the country. - Wow. - There was a lot of law enforcement that didn't know this was possible or didn't know anything about it. Yeah, one of the people said as a result of this black widow case, information about what we could do and how we could use forensic botany to answer specific questions and homicide cases resulted in a lot of additional interest throughout law enforcement and the grapevine. So now they need to search. Now they have death fixed in the afternoon, they have enough to get a search warrant. Okay, now they don't know where Jill is at the moment, but they do know where her car is. - Where's that? - Somewhere, they find her car. And in her car they find a map of Mexico. - Oh. - Two wigs matching the description of the people's hair that were walking that day and a stun gun. - Oh, no mustache. - No mustache, but they find a stun gun. - A stun gun for the paired marks on old boy's neck. - So they take the stun gun, they get the same model, they apply the stun gun to a dead pig, which is very similar to human skin. - That makes the same shit. - The marks are exactly what's on Jerry's neck and cheek, exactly. They stun gun them first. The wigs fit the description of the oddly pair on the street, and the map is where they think Jill might have taken off to, which is Mexico. - Holy shit. - So there's a separate search on December 2, 1993, a federal and state personnel search the room Jill was using at Lowry Air Force Base, along with a vehicle on the base, under a state warrant, and the base commander's authority to search and seize. That'll come up legally later as you might understand. Now, why the fuck isn't Jill and Cuffs? - Where the fuck is she? - Well, 'cause she went to Mexico City, that's why. - She went down. - Way down, not to Baja, she went to fucking Mexico City, all the way down. Yeah, so she apparently gets down there with help from the US Vice Consulate down there. She signs a power of attorney, so her son Seth can do everything. Yeah, and she writes a letter to Seth telling him to sell everything. - Sell everything. - Sell it all. We're fucking done. - Fire sale, yeah. - Fire sale, 'cause she's going broke down there. - Yeah. - So they need a break here, obviously. And what she did, not only did she give Seth the power of attorney, she also wrote to Seth, telling him like we said, sell everything, and among some other things here, Seth feels bad, and also Seth at the same time is starting to get with his brothers, William and Andrew, here, Billy and fucking Andrew, 'cause they think that she killed Clark Coit. - Our dad. - So the two boys who that's their real dad are real pissed about it, and so is Seth because that's his adopted father. She has his name and everything. So Seth goes to the police. - What? - Remember I called him the Seth of Damocles? That's just about to fall right now. - He has some questions or some things to say. - Nope, he goes to the investigators and says I have some shit to tell you, and I go, love to hear it, and he says, my mother asked me to help her kill Jerry. - She asked me to help. - Yep, or help cover it up, or help dispose of the body. - Uh-huh. - All three, basically. - Yeah. - If you don't help me, then will you help me get rid of the body? William, blah, blah, blah. Okay. He also told investigators that he had become to believe that his mother killed Clark Coit, the man who adopted him, and William, and like we said, Billy and Andrew think the same thing. Apparently, William, Billy, really was looking into it. He started looking into how his father died. He'd been too young to remember his dad. So he was just looking into his day. He wanted to remember his dad more. - Oh, he was my dad. - And then he started getting into how he died, started looking up shit, seeing newspapers, and seeing things of how his dad was. - Houston's only unsolved. - Yeah, and he watched home movies of himself as a little boy with his father, so he could see him, and remember him, or try to remember him. And he began asking where his mother, you know, whether my mother killed him, what the fuck, basically. And that's that. So apparently, Seth's tells the cops that his mother called him at four o'clock in the afternoon on October 21st, Thursday, the day that he was killed, we found out. Okay, Seth was at a bed, at the bed and breakfast, and steamboat that they own. She says, "Hey, baby, it's done and it's messy." That's what she told them over the phone. It was messy, and it's done, meaning Jerry, at four o'clock. So it's, yeah. And they said, did you know what she was talking about? And he said, yeah, she's talking about Jerry, 'cause she would've been asking me to help her kill him, or cover it up, or something. He said, "This is all he said." Quote, "Don't talk to me and hung up the phone." Ha, it's prank caller, prank caller is what he said. I don't wanna know about this shit. He literally prank caller there. - That's very funny, don't talk to me. - hung up the phone, on the night, on the night of October 21st here. Seth talked about the room where his mother stayed that night. And I'll give you a quote from the oxygen documentary quote. He testified that the room she stayed in that night had blood spatters, had blood on towels. There was stuff all over the place. One of his hats had blood on it. He bleached the hat, cut it up into pieces, and buried it. Huh, get rid of it. He scoured the room, and she was gone by the next morning. So she came in to clean up her murder shit in one of the bed and breakfast rooms. - And left it all there for him. - For him to cover it up, 'cause she asked him to help. And so he cut all that, oh wow. Then Michael Backus, they figure out, had been doing some weird shit too. He showed up for work that Friday, the next day. He showed up for work. His employer had not been expecting him to work that day 'cause he had the day off, 'cause he took it off to go camping. But they did notice that he had a new pair of boots on now. - Brand new boots. - Brand new boots. Now here's some other guilty sounding shit from Jill here. I guess apparently she had been telling Michael Backus, 'cause Backus had told other people and we'll get to that. She convinced him that Jerry was a bad guy and convinced him that he was dangerous and was gonna get her and kill her. And the only way to get rid of him was to kill him. - Not to kill him. - Not to kill him. - The only way to stop him. Then she started trying to find Hitman. - Oh. - Oh yeah, a few different people. Fucking a coworker of Michael's, we'll talk about it all right. Troy Giffin. he worked with Michael Backus. He's also a Vietnam veteran. Michael Backus asked him about killing Jerry. How do you think you can kill Jerry for me? - You're killing me, buddy. - I'm sure you have in the war. He offered him $3,500. He said, "I'll give you $3,500 if you'll kill this guy." And this guy said, "No." So he said, "How about $7,500?" - Wow, that's a, you really? - Not bad. - You were really lucky. - That's how low you were going. - Yeah, and the guy still said, "No, thank you." Thank you, no. Then in summer of 1993, this is how long this was going on. Summer of 1993, remember the Midwest was all flooded? - Oh yeah, St. Louis, the arches, yeah. - Everything was flooded. Well, Michael Backus is a telephone repair man, and he traveled, he was sent to Iowa to help repair phone lines. Jill went with him. She spent the summer in Iowa. You're going to, this is going to blow your fucking mind, dude. She spent the summer in Iowa pretending to be a psychologist counseling flood victims. She has no training license, no anything in psychology. She took, you'd heard what she took in college. You hear psychology in there, anywhere? - The fuck did she tell them? Get yourself a blow dryer? - She literally to counsel their emotional needs, not their physical needs, obviously. - Yeah, I know. - That's what a counselor does. - The fuck would she know? - That's the point. - Yeah. - She said, "I'm a counselor and started taking clients." - And they even asked to look for a license or anything, they just said, "All right, she must be a client." - They probably needed a bunch of 'em, so they're probably just taking on anybody that says they'll do it. - I absolutely, whoever needs, whatever. It's one of those things. Yeah, if you show up and you're giving food, they'll just take it. I mean, it's one of those. So one of these flood victims in Iowa woman said that Jill tried to persuade her to kill Jerry for her. Some woman she was counseling. That's a way, let's say you know your counselor's thing. - So you lost everything. - How'd you like to make $7,500? Actually, she didn't even offer her $7,500 here. She told this woman that Jerry was a rapist and a sexual deviant and that asked the client for a gun during this session. Do you have any guns I could have to kill this man? She said, "No," she said, "Well, if you do it, I'll give you a thousand dollars." We're here to talk about my problems. Not yours. (laughing) - I watched my house float away. Do you understand? The woman said, "No, thank you." Okay, and she's looking for counseling. That's fucking horrifying. And she's like, "What is this guy in Colorado?" We're in Iowa. What are you talking about? - Yeah. - So, and by the way, the story of why she wanted him dead shifts with each person she talks to is the weird part. - Unbelievable. - She told some of the people that she approached, that she approached, that Jerry had been molesting her daughter from a previous marriage. - She didn't have, there's no daughter. - Thank you very much. She just does, there is no daughter. She does not have a female. No female has ever shot from her lines, ever. - That was a fake one. - Yeah, my dead fake daughter, which is fucking crazy. And apparently, she told Backus something different. She told Michael Backus that Jerry would force Jill to have sex with other men while he watched, even though she didn't want to, she had to. And another time she also said, I guess Backus told the Troy Giffin guy from work that we got to kill this guy, he harmed a young girl. Again, he's a rapist and all this shit. None of these stories are true, by the way. They're not spying it or he's just spying it. He goes, I don't know. And then she starts sucking his dick and he goes, well, he sounds like a terrible, terrible man. - Yeah. - It's probably a rapist. - I would assume so. - It's so good. - Gotta be. Somebody, another person from Ohio, a guy in Ohio named, I guess identified as a, on her false name, also, she tried to hire to kill Jerry. Then there was Seth, the son. Here, according to everything here, Jill asked Seth for advice on how to kill Jerry. Like he's killed a bunch of people before. She asked him to kill or to help dispose of the body. He said no. And then he said something. The only thing he told her was, quote, if you do anything stupid, wear gloves. - Okay. - Don't leave fingerprints. - This is my advice to you. - This is my advice. - And apparently according to everything that the sons knew about two weeks before the murder that something was gonna happen. Obviously, Seth knew because he was trying to get him to do that, but they didn't do anything. They talked to each other, but didn't say anything to any outside people. - Yes, your mom just figured you're being crazy, but. - Yeah, who knows? Maybe mom's a whack. I mean, you'd think mom is wacky. Okay, first of all, if this is your mom, you know she's wacky. You just know it. She's dragged you all over the fucking country. All these different guys. Every time she does anything, you roll your eyes. Up, Christ, here we go. So now Michael Backus goes back, went back at some point to talk to Troy Giff and the guy from work. And he said that, you know, remember what I told you? - Yeah, so many times. - He said I was hoping you would forget that. Just forget that. - Remember what I said? - You never heard it. - He said that's the only thing that could hang me now. And then he said, Vietnam buddies don't rat off their buddies. - That's what they don't do. - Vietnam people don't fuck with each other. I mean. - We both, we both bend to the sticks. We've been in rice patties together. We don't talk. - So wow. - Happens in the rice patties stays in the rice patties. - Fuck yeah. Now at some point too, what happens in the whole stays in the whole. What happened during this, people find out that Jerry had recorded threats from Jill that she left on his answering machine. He had a bunch of, she had a bunch, he had a bunch of messages of hers that she had left. After his death, one of the things that was missing from his house was the answering machine takes. - She did know. - Yeah, she knew she left messages on her. And she acted just in case. Now Seth gets a immunity for this. They give Seth the immunity to testify against his mother. You gotta give him immunity. He didn't do anything. These two are the main issue. And he's testify against his mother. That's, you got a kid that's willing to testify against his mother. You have to give him immunity. So now the problem is that he had been asked in advance and not gone to the police. He told his mother to wear gloves. So a defense attorney is gonna have a blast with this shit on cross examination. So one person said, this is from the oxygen documentary. Here's a woman who dragged him all over the country, gotten him involved with her schemes, gotten him involved with the pre-planning, at least of a murder, had made him do things he didn't wanna do. And he had to sort of suck it up, so to speak, to be able to go into the courtroom and testify against this woman. It's a lot. Jerry's friend, Thane, said that, it wasn't, Jerry's not an idiot. He said that because people say, "Well, how dumb is he to get married to this fucking lady?" And he said, "He's not an idiot." He said, "People need to understand that it was not the education or the intelligence part that got him in trouble." It was the emotional part. It was the love that he felt. 50 years old and lonely is a strong thing, you know? 50 years old and holding out and then getting this, I mean, not necessarily holding out whichever, for whatever reason. And then this lady lands in your lap with great tits and she's blowing you always. Yeah, she comes right in your store. People don't understand how good, you don't even have to go to the bar. She came to your store. She comes up with a bunch of drywall. I mean, it's fucking easy pickings, you know? The vast majority of people settle for mediocre sex when it's really great. Yeah. It's crazy what you'll do for that person. Well, especially if you've had none of it and no plus next of it. You've had none and now it's amazing. How was that? And you're 50 and you're going, I could be doing this forever till I remember the rest of my till I die of a heart attack with a smile on my face, mid fucking coitus. I didn't even have terrible sex. I had no sex. Now it's amazing. Oh, my God. So the cops said that, you know, that's all they were working on at this point, trying to figure it out. So late 1993, Jill is out of money. Uh oh. So she comes back. Now Michael Backus is working and they've left him alone because they feel like if he's there, maybe she'll come to him. Come up, yeah. So that's what they're trying to do. You say, basically, yeah. So she goes, comes back to Greeley, Colorado, where he works, which is what they thought. So they arrest both of them. And they have them for first degree murder and Bond is set at, and this is a 1993, five million a piece, five million. In other words, have a seat in that jail. You're going to be there a while, homie. Five million dollars. You're not leaving million dollars. Five million dollars, five million dollars. Sorry, you have to see twins and see Danny DeVito freak out over five, five million, five. It's very fun. He thinks it's thousand. So anyway, yeah, this is what's going on now. After the arrest, Jill asked to talk to the detectives. This is how fucking insanely overconfident she is. To fish it, what they have. To try to, she thinks she can talk them out of it because she can talk men into anything apparently. - So. The interview is taped, and it's not good. Later on, she's going to try to say they forced her into it, but they find that she asked for the interview, no evidence of coercion. She interrupted them numerous times during the Miranda advisement, but it was in the end fully advised of her rights and understood them and talked willingly to officers. During the interview, Jill said, "I have nine alibi witnesses, nine. I'm gold here." She said that, "Listen, number one, it wasn't me, I have nine alibi witnesses, so let's just get me off the table right now, and then I'll try to help you figure out who actually did this." Sure. She said, "The thing is that you guys don't know, as Jerry is a closeted homosexual." Okay. That's what she said. Life is outrageous. All over the place. She said, "He fucks everybody but her." He's gay, he's in the closet, and he has a mysterious lover, and that's who did it. It's another on the down low guy, and he doesn't want Jerry to blow up a spot, so he can everything. Yeah. Said, "So there you go." Now, they never found nine alibi witnesses, as a matter of fact, they found zero alibi witnesses. And they said she flirted with the detectives the entire fucking interview. She flirted with them as well, which by the way, it doesn't help. It never works. It does not work. It just shows how guilty you are. You're so guilty. It's just on video for all of us to laugh at. That's it, and it's so much fun to watch when that happens. Yeah. Now, mid-December 1993, the national press gets ahold of this because the Houston Chronicle publishes an in-depth story connecting this Colorado arrest with the 72 shooting of Clark Koi, so then that becomes picked up by everywhere around the country, because that's a fucking interesting story, as you can see here. It's crazy. You can put it on Netflix, do a podcast about it. It's awesome. It's unbelievable. So hundreds of thousands of people watch it. It's wild. So December 26, 1993, there's a story in the Los Angeles Times under the headline, "After 10 marriages, woman is jailed on murder charges," which is, that's a great headline. I mean, salacious shit. A subheading, read, "Jill Koi and a boyfriend are being held in the death of husband number nine. Number three also met it untimely and Jesus Christ. Calls are coming into the steamboat pilot newsroom, which is a small paper from all over the world." Wow. And this is '94, '94, early '94, they don't have an email, they have no way to do things, so they're photocopying shit and mailing them to Japan and folders, Italy, everywhere. Really? It's crazy. That Brad Bolcuno guy, or Bolcuno guy from the pilot, that guy who writes for them, said all of this was about this kind of small woman who maybe has this crafty look about her. That might have been the person you see walking down the street. There were bizarre things we started hearing about right away, and then they started hearing about the affairs and all the weird shit and one other guy, a pilot columnist named Joanna Daughter, said that, yeah, yeah, Joanna, said that, quote, "People in steamboat will always have something that sets them apart from others who hear that case, this case, because it's local and it's a local die." And so it sounds real salacious nationally, but here it's a real personal life. Yeah. He said, "We can't help but grieve for a good family that never deserved this with the murder of Jerry Boggs, all of us lost another piece of this community's innocence." All right. Now, throughout '94 and '95, she's going to be held in the Route County jail. Yeah. And she's regarded by the staff as the worst inmate they've ever had. Ever. She's difficult, really? This is an interview we hear, quote, from the jail staff. She was one of the worst inmates and she was the worst inmate in the history of the jail, the history of the county. The minute she got in there, she started trying to manipulate people, turning one against the other exactly what she had done with the Boggs family. She just can't help it. What is she doing? Getting this one said this about you, getting people to fight, getting people to do things for her. She's manipulative. Yeah. Yeah. Puppet mastering. Puppet mastering. String to keep her happy and entertained and also. And, and all, and all, yeah, she tries to manipulate the guard so she can get things and all that kind of shit. Now, why did she marry so many times? Well, she, she said, quote, I sleep with them. So I marry them. Okay. I could just sleep with them. You get like a normal person, normal people don't marry. Everybody. They fuck. That's not normal. People on Tinder that'd be on their 88th fucking marriage. It's insane. Yeah. Um, wow. She also said before this, you could ask any of my husbands and they would tell you I was an excellent wife. Before this, you know, obviously, before this murder part, um, you know, he said, yeah. So both of these people, Michael and Jill have their, both win a, a change of venue motion to get it out of the county, you know, Jill's lawyers brought in an expert who had surveyed public opinion across the 14th judicial gestrict. And according to that expert, unfavorable response is above 40% meant to fair an impartial jury could not be seated easily more than 40% of respondents believed she was guilty or probably guilty. Not only if they knew about the case, just knowing about the case isn't enough to get you off a jury. You have to have a hard opinion on it that can't be changed by, you know, him and she did it. Yeah. That's it. We know him and fuck her. That's what it was. So the survey was weighted by population, which meant most of its residents came from route county, the district's most populous county and the place where the murder happened. So the judge grants part of the motion. He moved the trial out of the county, but not out of the judicial district. He sent it to Grand County, which is neighboring and still in that district. Okay. Jill's lawyers appealed that and attached a new survey limited to Grand County and in Grand County, the unfavorable responses came in under 40% so the judge said, good enough. That's where we're going. So the trial is held. It is a joint trial between it with her and back as together, which is awesome too. You know hilarious. Yeah. Hum. Hilarious. Yeah. It would be harder to convict him on anything but conspiracy without that. Without her. Yeah. Yeah. It's a six week trial. It is fucking long and it takes place in early 1995, which means it is nationally. No one said shit about it because there is only one court case going on in 1995, and that is on TV all day every day and it's all right and every character in this trial is better than the next. It's insane. So people missed this for OJ, which this is technically almost interesting I think pretty much. So I mean, apart from the national celebrity part of it, yeah, this is, I mean, as a case itself, this is pretty fucking interesting. If OJ is just a random L.A. black guy, it's this is so much more than that. Chris Rock say if he was R and Thal, the bus driving murder, it wouldn't even be OJ. He'd be R and Thal, the bus driving murder, he was a bus driver. That's what it is. That's what it is. That's a great line. So Jill Coyne gets a lawyer from Denver described as very, very competent. And Michael Backus gets Leonard Davies, who I've heard of this guy, described as very colorful. They said Backus had a very colorful attorney named Leonard Davies and Jill had a very, very competent attorney named Joseph St. Veltree and the route county prosecutors were more than committed to, you know, seeing justice done and seeing Jill brought down in this case. The prosecution's case pretty simple. She did this to keep evidence out of the civil courtroom. They said the evidence which concerns such matters as the defendant's allegedly bigamus marriage, her false claims of pregnancies and other false and fraudulent, fraudulent activities on her part admittedly portrayed the defendant as an evil conniving a manipulative person. However, it's supported by the prosecution's theory that the defendant murdered the victim to prevent exposure of the evidence in the civil trial thus established the motive for the killing. So they have to let in all of her crazy shit because it all, that's what she was trying to avoid. The only thing they keep out is the Clark Coit thing. They don't put the possible murder of Clark in there because that would be prejudicial. They have a ton of fucking evidence, bigamus weddings, false pregnancies, false child support, all this crazy shit. Now they also, they look through everything here. Backest is attorney's opening here. He does some crazy shit and the judge stops him and warn Leonard Davies that if he causes a mistrial, he's going to fucking pay for it. Oh, you're going to pay the, you're going to pay the cost of it if you cause a mistrial here. So don't fucking do it on purpose. That's a thing, which is interesting. Now one of the things they bring in is something we'd have known nothing about. The rest of it, we all know about all the different, the tri-giffin, all the witnesses, the lady in Iowa that she asked to kill somebody, Ohio, all that shit. There's a tape. An audio tape played for the jury. While I'll read this, this is a fright from the newspaper, jurors at Jill Koyte's murder trial on Friday heard a conversation serapticiously, serapticiously taped by her slain eighth husband in which the two argue over whether Koyte really gave birth to his child. The prosecution played their recording during the second day of testimony in the trial of Kourt and Michael Backus. They are charged with first degree murder, blah, blah, blah. In trying to portray Koyte as a scheming and manipulative, prosecutors played the tape Friday to show how Koyte tried to persuade Boggs to remarry her by convincing him she had Boggs' baby when she had not. She had had no children. Where the fuck did they find that tape? That's awesome. Yeah. Prosecutors said Boggs taped the conversation without Koyte's knowledge upon the advice of his attorney. That's why he made it. He said, Boggs has heard to say on the tape, I want you to get off that baby kick. There's no baby. And she said, her response is, I have a baby, you don't. Boggs said, so Jerry said, if you have a baby and it's mine, you'd better get it here real fast. We better fucking show it to me then. And later he has heard to say, you took more from me than I can ever realize. And he added that he had spent nine months expecting her to have his baby only to find out there's no baby. He said he learned from Jill's parents that there was no child. Your fucking parents told me you didn't have a baby, you lying asshole. So yeah, there's that. Now Jerry's attorney here, Jerry Boggs, his attorney testifies and testifies about all of the financial issues that basically Jill had given Boggs $100,000 lean on the bed and breakfast. It was drawn up jointly by Boggs and Quite to make the establishment less desirable to the other guy suing her for money. So they said, Boggs want to Jill to sign a non disturbance agreement as a condition for his dissolving the deed of trust, but she refused. The proposed agreement would have prohibited Quite from using Boggs' name from harassing him and from making false claims about the purported child. She would have signed that. They also bring up Carl Steeley. Remember that guy? Yeah. Yeah. The one she was with when she met him. So they bring him in and he said that he, they bring him in for a very specific person, a purpose that he says she bragged that her quote, mercenary training. She had some kind of training somewhere. Her mercenary training made her quote more conniving. Now she knows how to connive even more as if she could possibly use that. All right. Seth testifies. He's the star witness under immunity. He said that he did tell her if you do anything stupid wear gloves and that she did call him and said, Hey, baby, it's done and it's messy. He talks about the bloody towels, the blood on his hat that he cut up and buried. So he's admitting to destroying evidence. He's admitting to multiple crimes with these kind of immunity, but helping a lot. And it's one of those things where the jury might have disregarded his testimony if he was in her son, but the fact that you are testifying against your mother, you're not just doing that for immunity. You're doing that because it's true. It's fucking true. Then they also said this, here's a quote from somebody who watched a trial. What was very interesting to note at the trial was when her three sons testified against their mother. This is something you don't see very often. This is a rarity. And when each son would take the witness stand, Jill would wave at them and smile and try to get their attention, but they would not make eye contact with her. They all ignored their mother. They all ignored her. They said, you can almost imagine what it must have been like to have been first dragged around the country with all those husbands and boyfriends and now they're ultimately testifying against their own mother for first degree murder. I just saw in the process. That's amazing. I just saw a documentary on a woman who was put up on murder charges and there was retrials and then she was an idiot and acted as her own attorney and got locked up again when she should have gotten off. But her daughter testified against her and she sat there and smiled and said, and now they still love you at her daughter under our start cry. Like totally just manipulate up on the stand. Yeah. Manipulated. So the defense, their whole case is what the little things the prosecution doesn't have. That's what they have. That's a lot. So there's no physical evidence putting her or Jerry or Michael back is inside Jerry's house. There's no fingerprints. There's no DNA linking them to the scene. No gun had ever been found. Nobody had ever seen either one of them leaving the house. They said the neighbor's description of a disguised person by definition is not an identification. It was a disguised person. It disguised. I can't believe Jill put on a fake mustache for this. We're fucking idiot. It's for deal. So she wiggled her ass down the road. Yeah. Well, she's still kept her. Yeah. The defense maintained the camping alibi. It attacked Seth as a witness with immunity, a motive to shift blame and a admitted role in destroying evidence. Bacchus's lawyer argued that most of the evidence was about Jill, not Bacchus. And that trying the two together allowed Jill's history to contaminate the case against his client. Neither defendant testified. They Jill was thinking about it. The judge questioned Jill in detail about her right to testify in what cross-examination might cover. And the record reflects she went back and forth on the decision and then ultimately said, "Never mind. I'm good." And Bacchus said, "Fuck no. Not happened." Not a chance. Not a chance. Not a chance. So during closing arguments, they said, you know, remember what she said. Jill said you heard her on tape say she had nine alibi witnesses. You see one of them on the fucking stand today. Not a one. Jill's lawyers moved for a mistrial, arguing this was an improper comment on her decision not to testify. The judge said, "What do you add to your fucking mind?" It's a proper comment on the failure to produce the alibi witnesses. She herself had named. All right. That's what it is. It's not what the lawyer said in the beginning. It's what she said on the goddamn tape. So the verdict comes in that jury, by the way, in deliberations asked to review the testimony of four witnesses. Transcripts had not been prepared yet, which is awful. That's terrible courting, everybody. The court report estimated it would take about 13 and a half hours to read back the testimony of the four witnesses they wanted. It's just like in shorthand steno at the moment. Well, even once it's been, once the transcript is produced, it'll take 13 and a half hours to read it back to them. The defense lawyers were, they were not in agreement on whether to do it. Jill's lawyers wanted it honored. While back as his lawyer said, "We don't need this read back." The judge told the jurors how long it would take and said, "We're not doing that. Get back in there." So the judge said, "Based on your request, the court's view is that you should rely upon your collective memories of the testimony that was given." If you have further requests, the court would consider that, but it is the procedure that would be followed. Thank you. Please return to your double. I hate that answer. Well, it's just use your recollection. You don't need to have the whole trial read back to you. That's ridiculous. Yeah. What if they were like weeks of long time? Six weeks of long time. Yeah. What would it look like? Six weeks is a long time. If somebody's testimony from week two, you might not remember. I get that. Oh, it was that long ago. Six weeks is the fucking trial, but they deliberate for five hours and they come back and find Jill and Michael guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit first-degree murder. They go to sentencing. It's pretty easy here. You, sir and ma'am, may fuck off life without parole, plus 48 years on the conspiracy count on top of that plus a $1 million fine for each defendant. That'll teach them. That'll keep them from writing a book because anything you make comes right back to us. They didn't have the slayer statute in there, but they did have, you can pay the victims that shit or a restitution or whatever the fuck it is. Wow. Doug Boggs, the Jerry's brother, said she picked the wrong town. She picked the wrong man. She picked the wrong family. And then he spun his six-shooter around and put it back in his holster. Doug Boggs takes no shit. Doug Boggs, he's taken no shit. I love Doug. I think he's awesome. Congratulations. He's my favorite guy in this fucking case. Bitch killed my brother. That bitch killed my brother. Fuck her. You messed with the wrong family, bitch. I like it. I can't wait to talk at the end of her sentence. Oh, I can't wait. He's waiting for that shit. He did something else amazing that you're all up to. The steamboat pilot said, quote, "We were more aware of that sort of pervading sadness about what had happened to Jerry Boggs. Oh, that man ran the hardware store. How sad that he thought he met a woman who beguiled him and tragically she did." Headline in the New York Times says, "Woman guilty of murdering husband number nine." That sounds like she killed all nine husbands. Yeah, she killed the first date, too. That's you'll open that fucking article When Jill is finally transferred to state prison out of the route county jail. This is fucking there was a party They had a party at the jail because she was gone This is here's a quote quote So when they finally got rid of her she was sentenced. They took her away Doug The tugbogs bought a case of champagne for everybody in the jail. They all got to they all got together and drank champagne because the monster had been brought down Doug's a bad motherfucker. He showed up popping corks in this bitch, man That's wild. Now the thing that we never find out is who pulled the trigger We don't know We we think basically it doesn't matter because they were both there. So legally it doesn't matter But you know I wouldn't just curiosity if fucking matters Detectives believed Jill was the shooter. I think so too. I think he hit him with the shovel He had the physical thing she had the yeah, she can't cut somebody's fucking face open with the shovel That's him. You need the height of the fucking gravity to help you and that yeah, yeah So they entered through the back door waiting for Jerry hit him with the scum stun gun beat him with the shovel Tried to strangle him and then Jill said fuck it and shot him three times. That's what they detectives think We don't know that October 3rd 1995 TV movie airs Six months later It's on Fox of course legacy of sin the William Coit story Now the Coit story the William Coit story. This is all told from the perspective of Billy Oh, the second son He is played by Neil Patrick Harris by the way It's sold from the point of him as he investigates the death of his father And he was too young to remember Bonnie Badelia plays Jill and Gary Graham plays Mike Backus and Ernie Lively plays Jerry Boggs the tagline was a mother's love a father's murder and a son torn between the two Wasn't really torn, but that's fine So yeah, they they said this is from the oxygen documentary the brothers all sort of banded together in the end and Said we've got to bring this woman down, you know, she's created havoc all over the country If a story like this has any good parts, you know, it's that these brothers came together to do the right thing because they were so Critical there was no physical evidence tying them to the crime so anyway 1997 Jill appeals. It's doesn't go anywhere It's based on the fact that they let in all of her past stuff not that not the Coit thing but all of her at all of her You know marriages and big amissness and all that 1998 Jill tried to place a personal ad from present The Department of Corrections removes it A lot in the newspaper she tried to do it then a later ad on a site called cyber inmates carry the headline This is her pitch quote want U.S. citizenship Mary an inmate That's what she's busted that's what she's pushing They took that ad down - as like she's known up. She's using the like the most desperate line to get married That's yeah, what it last last resort here 2002 she published an online editorial calling for an investigation into retreatment and custody She said she'd been denied therapeutic braces for her back and hands alleged sexual abuse and said a guard had broken her finger Bunch of appeals are denied Michael back its appeals she appeals again. She appeals in 2006 based on the federal property search there. They say no that was all good She sews the Colorado Department of Corrections and several officers alleging sexual assault and denial of basic rights a federal court Says get the fuck out of here. You have no evidence 2000 now we'll get the end June 2026 just happened Jill files her application for executive clemency with the governor of Colorado asking her him to commute her this motherfucker she said quote now in my 80s and and blind No longer physically capable of life. I once lived no meaningful risk to public safety is she can't get anyone to fuck her now So it would be impossible She wrote she accepted responsibility for what she did now. She's admitting it and that if release she planned to live out her remaining years in Colorado Springs Which is a sentence in itself Now it's great. They use it. Yeah. She a district attorney called it an egregious portrayal of justice and the people of Route County and she can go fuck herself and say no. Thank you there No clemency she did do an interview with Candace to Long at 1.2 Yeah, and I tied an episode called the Black Widow bride where she said quote All of a sudden on this bad person because I committed a murder. It's embarrassing and humiliating Yeah, yeah, she said that on camera into a camera Michael back is serving his sentence in the Colorado Department of Corrections looks like he is in the alignment correctional facility here He has not applied for clemency and he's never implicated Jill by the way never said her She has had a spell on this man Never did anything one of the people in the oxygen documentary said back is wouldn't turn evidence on her Never did he should have he should have said hey, I used a stun gun on him and I beat him, but I didn't shoot him. She shot him Yeah, it's unbelievable at some point Jill was transferred out of Colorado under an alias according to this She was placed in Nebraska Oklahoma, Florida All over the place she was later returned to Colorado her inmate number is 86530. She's held at the Denver women's correctional facility And here are some quotes about her from the oxygen documentary one It's very rare to find a woman who's a total and complete psychopath. It is. That's a guy thing Jill saw marriage as a means to an end to get money for men Jill saw men as a target of opportunity and I think she looked for men that had trouble with relationships or even having a relationship Said it would take a very strong man a man experienced in life Experience with women to be able to spot what Jill was all about most men couldn't That's the fact so They said she's a cold blooded killer and if we didn't catch her rest assured she would have killed again Society is protected from her absolutely. She's not going to find victims 13 14 15 There's not going to be three or four more dead guys for their money Yes, you're blind now the books here Stephen Singular's charmed to death That was the book published in 1995 first. I believe that became the basis for the TV movie Then where we got a lot of quotes from this week is Clifford line-decker's poisoned vows and that's available on Kindle and whatever This was written during the trial and weeks before sentencing covering the whole span of Joe's life So that's she we got all his stuff from court Now both were written knowing that their subject had been fined one million dollars to keep her from writing this kind of book So they knew they had the the market cornered there It's appeared on the new detectives forensic files American justice deadly women Oxygen's black widow murderers. It's been on a bunch of shit Hopefully we I don't know if it's been on snap. I didn't see it on that one shouldn't be snapped She wasn't a beard Also, she didn't snap. This is not fucking planned out. She may have snapped at birth for Christ No, it's dangerous. So anyway, there you go. There is steamboat springs, Colorado, and a fucking wild ass story That is a crazy goddamn story. I hope you enjoyed it if you did Tell everyone about it get on whatever app you're on give us five stars It helps a ton. I don't know why but it does Netflix double thumbs up us Two of those one for each of us. That would be good I got two guns. 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We'll talk all about that. It's from a book called Tripped, which is the next one of the book Blitz that we did in Patreon. I don't know. That's make it as well. I'm delus D more likely there, so anyway, check that out, patreon.com/crimein sports is where you get all of those and more and everything else. What else do you get? Well, you get all the shows we put out. Add free is what you get, which is a big deal. Then on top of that, you also get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right now. Jimmy, do me a favor. Hit me with the names of the people who would never marry us plus nine other guys and then kill us. Hit me with the right fucking now. This was executive producer Curtis in South Carolina called the Campbell big daddy B truck in. He be doing that keep on trucking big daddy. And Steve Schnell had to put down his pup or his cat Jasper, the poor guy, that's Steve the best. And he's got it. Yeah, we like him a lot. Good to do. A bundle cat that he lost. That's brutal, man. The cat was like 17 fucking out. Wow. He really did it. He had a good run anyway. Still, that sucks. We hate that. We hate that. Other groups this week, Travis Sundall, Peyton Meadows, Gary Howard's, Gary Gansavort, New York. Do you know where that is? Never heard of it before. Gary, you are finding the corner of the places. Happy hours in Springfield, Illinois. Nope. No, these truckers can never get a good place. No, no. Maybe it's just people saying these shit holes and it's like, you know, I mean, it's better. Truck stop there. Maybe. Yeah, saves a money on because gas is outrageous for them. Who knows? Thomas Woodward, Janice Hill, Liz Vasquez, Morgan McAllister, Josh E. Danny would know last name. Lisa Scott, Conan Janice, Kenan, Gabriella would know last name. Kenan. Angie would know last name. Michelle Perry, Catherine Heaton, Matthew Goodwiler, Sam would know last name. Cassandra Hampton, Jennifer Last Man, Mama Mason, Elizabeth Charles Ople would know last name, RJV Natalie Blazedel. Oh, Tony. Is that Tony? No, that's got to be Tony. Well, that's Tony in an accident. Tony, Tony, it's it. Co, it's got to be Tony's it. Co, or maybe it's Toby. Look, I don't know. Both letters are right next to each other. Oh, no, Tony. Tony. Oh, last man. Cynthia Valky, Sarah, Sarah bear, John Breitman, Hammer, Sammich, Tonya, Tonya, Tonya, Paterson, Paterson, Alicia, with no last name, Sarah Shuggers, Ronna and Chateau, Ben Bridges, Joey Bomar, Jeremy Clay, Dom and Blind. Wait, what? That's just Dom. We know that guy. Why? And Dom. Yeah. Why don't you say that, Dom? Maybe it's maybe it was because he can't. I'm sure there's some way he can type for Dom and blind. It's a second. Yeah. Dr. Felicia Hacker, Ashley boom. We know you, Dom. Eddie would know last name. Lee would know last name. Michelle Cross, Lisa, uh, Kramer Kramerlapy Kramerlope. Oh Kramerlap. Joey air. 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