The Man Who Spoke to Every UFO Whistleblower | Ammar Kandil - Ep. 64

you've gotten to meet david grush you've gotten to hang out with lou elizondo with uh beatrice villa villaroy diana pasolka that's right woods like even jake barber yeah that grush piece was an underperformer for yes theory even though all the metadata on the back end on youtube studio was said that this should be one of yes theory's best ever videos no way within 24 hours just the line completely flat line and we're talking about only two cameras had access to him during this entire time that's right myself and jess we were with him in the four or five days after the hearing we saw his phone get blown up by every single media entity in the world wanting to talk to him so we know that people were interested in the story and we we know that there's it doesn't make sense when there's only two pieces of content on the internet about his story what i do want to talk about is elio okay come and get me i'm trying to get abducted full-fledged disney production of a child named elio who wants to be abducted by aliens whose aunt is part of space force soft disclosure for the kids soft disclosure for the kids you're priming a child to grow up to not fear these concepts of um abduction and yeah they are even talking about like having samples taken like yeah it was normalizing things probe yeah yeah probe i'm just getting probed like he was happy to get and they mentioned arrow that was the craziest mention in the whole film i think mention what it is negative but arrows here nasa's on the way you know we watched uh the end credits here the producers gratefully acknowledge the cooperation of the united states department of defense and department of the air force you've had a few sightings i'll talk about the most recent one just because it's the one that lasted the longest and how long was this sighting uh three to four minutes whoa yeah you know seek discomfort was the guiding principle in in my life to it being even more specific i'm just like seeking disclosure at this point i am a former swat police officer in birmingham alabama i was working at the homewood police department on july 2nd 2012. i was going in for night shift roll call at 22 05 hours it was uh dark of course because it was at night and there was low clouds there was an airplane flying out of birmingham airport and right under those low low clouds just hundreds of feet above city hall which was directly across from the police department i saw a orange orb about the size of a small like a volkswagen car just pop out at the bottom of the clouds sit motionless lighting up underneath the clouds that's when everything changed for me it's something i'll never forget it was clear as a day just a bright ball of light then it just zoomed off into the clouds quick heads up folks area 52 is now shipping from the u.s that means no more tariffs no duties and no surprise fees for anyone ordering in the united states and for black friday we got some brand new drops including the new cardigans available in three colors the exact ones i've been wearing in my videos plus area 52 branded tie and tie clip set suspenders edc journal pouches fresh journals and black trucker hats all of which are perfect stocking stuffers for any fan of the channel and for this weekend only you'll see up to 30 off automatically at checkout everything's now live at area 52. shop grab what you want before it's gone enjoy the video it's happening it is happening from being area 52's biggest fan to just uh to being in the skiff i appreciate you saying that means a lot of course um ladies and gentlemen amar candiel um amar you are an inspiration to so many people you know i mean i don't have to introduce you but for those of you who don't know amar is part of a very successful youtube channel that is called yes theory one of my favorite channels in the world you guys are just an inspiration to people to millions of people across the world you do the coolest things and including following up on a lot of ufo stuff and that's you know that's partially what we're going to be talking about today is your adventure in and around the ufo phenomenon how you came about it where you are currently and where you're going with this because it's quite exciting to see your venture but regardless uh amar i am so thankful to have you here thank you for joining me in the skiff likewise thank you for having me yeah absolutely um yeah dude i mean we can start anywhere but i'd like to maybe just get to know you a little bit more um prior to you know this whole ufo stuff you know we were first introduced uh through jesse michaels at the 2024 ufo hearing uap hearing in washington dc which almost we did almost didn't go to it was like a whole thing and then we connected there but you went to the one before that and in fact you got to spend time with america's you know number one current whistleblower david grush which is wild um but before that what got you into this phenomenon 2020 lockdown i yes theory had taken a big hit with mobility just being able to move and film in different places um what we do is very much experiential we go out chase adventures stories interact with people and then all of a sudden during covid everything changed um and we had i had a friend of mine sky collins who's a creator on youtube messaged me and she goes you should check out this netflix series called unsolved mysteries there's an episode about a case that happened in the berkshires in massachusetts in 69 and i think you'll find it interesting and in my mind i'm like sky i don't i'm not really into ufos i you know i kind of cringe when i hear these stories or when i watch videos on youtube about people talking about the light in the sky that showed up and the thing that came out of the craft and in my mind it was always this like very american thing and uh remember i got back home i put on unsolved mysteries there's just something about the way that story specifically was told that didn't have the the things that would usually turn me off about about these stories like the way they put the edit together the way the story is told the way they do the interviews the way they put music over the events it's usually just like horror vibe and i'm like it doesn't need anything more to it doesn't need to be more scary than than what people are narrating people are you know describing the events that happen to them so it just always ticked me off i always felt like i'm being pushed to believe like i'm being i'm being directed to feel the story and i'm like i'm not specific feeling or to think to have this specific thought as i'm listening to the story i didn't like that i get that with ghost stories by the way yeah same vibe yeah yeah well it was all for me it was always one category the paranormal sure fair the things that are outside of this this reality yep and not that i was you know closed-minded i mean now in retrospect i look at myself and i'm like yeah of course i was close-minded so um but at least i didn't think of myself as a closed-minded person i in fact i thought i was very curious but it was that's it was that experience that just made me kind of reconsider my entire worldview and and the way the judgment calls that i'd made in the past about people that have shared stories like this so back to covid i uh watched unsolved mysteries i was completely blown away by by the testimonies and there was two people in that story that i just felt like i really wanted to ask more questions to so for those at home could you maybe give us a cliff notes of what happened during that case yeah so in september 1st of 1969 about 300 people from four or five neighboring towns end up seeing something in the sky that was spectacular that just didn't didn't fit didn't belong to to where people saw it and a few of those people were children with their parents that ended up disappearing from where they were some were in you know hanging out by the lake with their parents some were in the car coming back with you know their grandma and mom from from the diner that they own just different stories and different circumstances but the commonality was these kids disappeared and they ended up on a craft where some sort of testing took place and you know you can imagine like i'm coming from a non-believer to a story where people say that they end up on a craft and and you know samples were taken out of them and there's like yeah there's physical physical evidence on on people's bodies so it just really shook me to my core But more so than me synthesizing the information that was being shared with me, it was actually more about me feeling almost a sense of shame that I judged those people without putting the effort in vetting the information myself. And especially with how traumatic people describe the event to them and the amount of vulnerability it took for them to actually just come forward and share that. And for me to just be so egotistical, to just think I know better and I don't even need to look into what they're presenting in front of me. And it just, that shook my entire reality and it made me just go down to the biggest rabbit hole of my whole life. That was five years ago. My life completely. And ever since I just, you know, gradually developed a deeper and deeper interest towards the phenomenon and actually like the beginning was more the phenomenon of us not believing other fellow human beings that tell us things that break our construct of reality more so than me trying to even begin to figure out what are we looking at or who is visiting or any of these bigger questions. I was just interested in like, why are we doing that with each other? And what has been the plan in place to get us? Because I think it's, you know, now with what I know about the phenomenon, about the, the way disclosure has been, you know, engineered over the years, I think that, um, the current discourse in society is no accident. There's a, there's a reason people have been conditioned over so many years with a laugh cue. Every time a celebrity on a talk show says that they've seen a UFO, my God. Yeah. You know, it's, it's almost an automatic thing. And I could just start seeing all these things after that experience, after I came back. And after I, you know, told that story for the first time, obviously also on yes theory, the stories are the nature of the story is very positive. It's, um, wholesome, wholesome, hope giving a lot of adventure. So this was just like a, I mean, we were all worried that people would be like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Like, this is not what yes theory is. But for me, it was like the core of what yes theory is, which is to seek. That's the, the guide and the North star guiding principle for the whole movement for, for what we do. And when we pick episodes and for me, there was nothing that was more comfortable. It was more of seeking discomfort than for me to reconsider my worldview. It's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Did, did you receive some partial backlash from the other? Yes. Theory members prior to that. And, and, and did you see some of their, um. On tall, the way they see reality shift before, during and after, did you get to witness that and as well as your own? Yeah. So what I got to witness was actually the, the people that I took with me on that mission, because one of them was Tommy, who's, uh, the lead editor of yes theory, the head of post. And he is just one of the most pragmatic, uh, skeptical, skeptical people that you can, and not in a negative sense, but it's just very logical. Yeah. You know, studying math in college and, and, uh, his reality was very much shook, but in a way where he actually got so scared that he, even though he was there talking to the same people that, that I talked to, he, he kind of can post that experience. Uh, had, it had the opposite effect on him where he just didn't want to hear more about it. Wow. Um, I think it scared him quite a bit, you know, the things that were shared, people ending up on crafts. And as I said, samples are taken. It is, it is hard to go from zero to, to abductions, you know, you're not talking about someone who saw a craft in the sky and then all of a sudden it's not there anymore. That's a bit easier to, to take in. Um, but I thought that, so he, I knew that he was going to be the one editing the grush piece with me a year after that, or three years after that. And to me, knowing how anti the topic, he, he became. Post the Berkshires. Yes. I knew that if working on the piece that we're going to make about grush is, can allow him to, to get to the other side and actually see the other perspective and, and start opening up his mind more than, than I know that we will be making something that is really good that, that has the same potential to do for, you know, other people out there who may have never come across the subject. And even though there was a lot of resistance, I was actually worried about editing that piece. Because I was just like, I really want someone to have their heart in it. I want someone to almost have the same conviction that I have so that we can put a, a piece that has the energy, but I actually in the process realized, oh no, that balance was really important because he was treating it as himself watching that piece. And I was treating it as also someone with a lot of passion towards truth and towards uncovering this, you know, this reality here. So that balance of having. These two perspectives in the piece, I think end up generating, um, uh, a piece that wasn't just speaking to believers or just skeptics. Yeah. I actually ended up doing both. Yeah. And you know, the outcome of that Berkshire video was immense. I mean, even for yesterday, who does have a huge following, that was like kind of unprecedented. Like you, you look at something like that, you're, you're touching a brand new niche in a, like you said, this isn't the format. This isn't what we normally do. It's a complete left turn. And yet ended up getting 7 million views. This thing just goes off. The comments are, you know, quite positive. Yeah. For a channel that doesn't delve into the UFO stuff regularly, you would expect, you know, a lot more of like, what the hell is this? But no, it hit mainstream audiences. And they, because of the way that you were able to tell that story from someone experiencing it for the first time, not someone biased like myself, not someone biased like me. Not someone, you know, who's, who's bought in. Yeah. It's someone who's discovering. And I think that discovery people connect with just much like, you know, when you guys are so in some random city and have to find a place to sleep without money, it's watching your reality change with the things that you learn and getting to witness that on camera. Yeah. I think that that's what connects to people. A hundred percent. Not, not just the UFO stuff. Yeah. But how you. Deal with the UFO stuff. Yeah. And I think that might inspire a lot of people in, in questioning themselves. Like maybe I took too hard of a look at that too. Maybe I should also do a little more research before I, you know, flippantly judge this. Spot on. So it was very, uh, yeah, very powerful. And that was my whole goal of just, because basically pretty much what I did is I recreated that episode that I watched on unsolved mysteries, but in a way where I knew that I'm bridging a gap in the storytelling. And that I had to almost, you know, turn a blind eye on a few things in that piece that still weren't ideal because they were like the classic TV editing kind of like bit dated. But I knew that I could tell that story and I could ask questions that are even more relevant to a young person watching. Yeah. Someone who has no idea. Exactly. Yeah. And in fact, I'm going to do it in an, in an, in an atmosphere where it's just like young people curious. And we're going to do it in an atmosphere where it's just like young people curious. And we all, there's the, you know, you see Tommy being a little scared and uncomfortable with it. You see me excited, but like the entire time I'm just like being floored by everything that is being shared. Um, you see Sky who was there, who had, who knew about the case asking even deeper questions. So that's when I realized that there's a gap that exists in the storytelling about the phenomenon. Do you think that there would have, do you think that you would have been on this path had that video tanked? Ooh. Hard to say, right? Yeah. I don't think that video could have tanked. No. But. I think, um. Do you think it would have deviated or it would have just taken longer for you to get there? The only difference it would have made is that it wouldn't have allowed me to make the grush piece. Which did change everything. Except that grush piece was an underperformer for yesterday, even though all the metadata. On the back end on YouTube studio was said that this should be one of yesterday's best ever videos. No way. Highest watch time, higher watch time than Project Iceman, the two hour documentary that, that is on YouTube. Higher watch time? And it's, and Project Iceman is double. No way. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I was looking at the metadata as, you know, in the first 24 hours, I was like, okay, this is gonna rip. This is gonna, this is perfect. I think, uh, within 24 hours, just the line completely flipped. Flatline YouTube recommendations, like significantly. Did you get flagged? That's what I believe. Like I would. No, but like, did you, did you, did you get actually flagged? No, no, no. You didn't see anything on the front end? No, no. Whoa. It's just complete flatline of, of growth on that video. That makes no sense. It makes zero sense. And I would like, again, I would put money on the fact that something was done to that video. Do you know what else is strange? Your personal data, your search history. Your shopping habits. All of that has a life of its own. It moves. It gets duplicated, sold, traded, all behind the scenes without you ever seeing it happen. There's this entire hidden economy built on you, your information. Companies called data brokers collect everything they can, bundle it, and push it around in the background of the internet for profit. And unless you actively stop it, it never ends. And that's why I use Incogni. They go directly after those brokers and force them to delete your personal data. They handle the legal requests, the follow-ups, all the paperwork. And when you see the report of who had your information, let's just say it's eye-opening. If privacy matters to you, this is the first step in taking some control back at least. Go to incogni.com slash area52. And use code area52 to save 60% off an annual plan. Incogni deletes your data from the internet so you don't have to. Because I really think, I think the reality is people who already were interested in Grush, interested in the hearing, those are the people that were going to watch it anyways on Jesse's channel. Yeah. And we're going to watch the, you know, the, the, the hearing on the news. Sure. But I think what we were doing is that we were introducing, you know, the potentially nine, 10 million people who may have never heard about this global audience. Yeah. And I think that if, you know, to the power there be, that's, that's a bit, that's too, uh. He was gaining a lot of traction. Yeah. At that point. Yeah. It was becoming mainstream media. For sure. Yeah. And you were probably the most mainstream outlet. And we're, and we're talking about only two cameras had access to him during this entire time. That's right. Myself and Jesse. And it was immediately after. And it was immediately after he was, we were with him in the four or five days after the hearing, we saw his phone get blown up by every single media entity in the world wanting to talk to him. So we know that people were interested in his story and we, we know that there's, it doesn't make sense. That all of a sudden when there's only two pieces of content on the internet about his story and both are done in very different ways. Jesse went into the technical, the historic, he's got flagged too, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's kind of the, the confirmation that I have that the hours was, was under the microscope as soon as it went, went live because Jesse put his piece, I think a week before ours. So I think, um, yeah, I doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. But, but that's, as I said, you're, you're. Your question was, you know, if, if that first Berkshire's video tanked, I just wouldn't have been able to make that, but it would not have affected my interest in the subject because if anything, you know, I would, you know, of course the video has maybe 1.4, 1.5 million views, the one with Grush, which, you know, is, is, is great. And I'm very grateful for that, but for yes, theory standards for what this piece should have been in the circumstances that it came out and it, that should be 10 million views. Well, I mean, you've got a video like Bob Lazar hopping on Rogan and it's got 65 million views. Obviously it's Joe Rogan, but I mean, still, you know, this is the number one current whistleblower in the whole sphere. This is the guy that on camera in front of Congress talked about aliens, essentially, you know, everybody else is talking about, uh, you know, light in the sky or fast moving object on a blip on a radar. This guy's saying we've retrieved bodies and people want to hear about that. And what we did is we created. Another public hearing, a true public hearing for, for Grush. I think it was the morning after the hearing, we have a very strong community that is present in, you know, all over the world. So I put a call out on, on Instagram asking for skeptics and believers to send in a question that they would want to ask a whistleblower. I didn't give more context than that. And then I just picked 30 people that had a good balance between, you know, in questions and just told them to show up to our hotel the following day to the room. And we set up this like room. And so I know that we, it's not, we, we weren't just repeating something that is already in the hearing that someone wouldn't need to watch that video. It was fresh content. It was, we're, we're going with Grush to his home. We're meeting his partner. We're asking her questions. Like all things that are like looking behind the, you know, behind the curtains, but this guy, especially when he's coming to tell humanity, one of the most profoundly shocking things that we've ever seen. That we've ever received from someone at this level. Like I thought people would have more interest in knowing who the hell this guy is. And I think that's, that's what our piece was. Like I wanted to show what's his motivation as a human being outside of all the official things that he's done and, and you know, the, the, yeah. So I, I, and in your words, what is that? What is his motivation outside of all that? Like in your own experience from hanging out with him, meeting him. Knowing him personally, what's your gestalt on David Grush? First of all, I think he's a hero for what he's, uh, what he's taken on to be able to say what he said and, and everything that he's gone through post, um, you know, he, he 2023 is now almost three years ago and you can see consistency and the position that he's had and him not being able to say what he said. Being, uh, you know, some media grifter that just wanted to promote a book or, or, uh, or a movie or anything of that sort. You can just see that he, um, that he was in it to truly deliver a truth to, to humanity based on the oath that he's, that he had taken. And I, I think it's, and I see that be a, a trend between people who've had jobs like Grush. People who've had jobs like Grush. People who've just been in, in the military and the air force. I think there's a sense of remorse over certain type of missions, things that, that happened wars that were fought and that eventually, you know, years later we're looking back and be like, you know, what the fuck was that for? Um, and I think for the potential that this topic offers humanity and I think this is, you know, I, I find it to be almost, um, um, a way of like atoning to, for things that happened in the past and, um, yeah, with, with Grush specifically, I think, um, I think he's, he's such a, hmm, let me think about that, his motivation. Do you think. I just want to be careful around Grush, so that's why I'm. Of course. Yeah, and you don't want to speak for him, I understand. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you, in, in what you were able to observe, do you think he was happy with the outcome or disappointed? The outcome being. The outcome, uh, the, what happened afterwards with Congress and everything else, like. I, I think he was disappointed. Yeah. Complete inability to get him in a skiff. To, to say what he needed to say. Like, he really went above and beyond in telling them how they can get the information that they need and, yes, I am not the guy that touched the craft, but I talked to 40 people that, that, you know, in some shape or form have, and I can give you all the names, all the places, but they just refuse to make the extra steps or have been blocked from taking the extra steps. Yeah, probably more likely. And that's just, that's just, to any American out there, that should be. That's your answers right there. You have a guy that, that tells you, I will tell you where these things are kept and there's no follow-up. Yeah. Um, and obviously everything that he's, you know, still goes through, you know, last, just last month. And I think Luna, Luna talked about it, like some of, some of the things that he's going through and the threats that he's getting. So. The smear campaign as well. Yeah. And like all that stuff. Yeah. And the funny thing is that he had told us about that smear campaign on the ride, after we picked him from the airport. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he almost, we, I think it's, it's in Jesse's video where he talks about them pulling out his mental health records because of PTSD. Like he almost called out what was going to happen in two days. Huh. Um, yeah. And, and, and I thought that was just, uh. It's deplorable. Yeah. As a, you know, I have a father who suffered from PTSD. I had a father who suffered from PTSD, uh, you know, for a very long time. Very severe as well. Very, very severe. Um. But my dad wouldn't lie to me because of it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, uh, of course, you know, he had moments of, uh, where he just didn't want to be around people or there was too much noise or. Yeah. You know, even, you know, he's had my, you know, my father had like some daytime hallucinations sometimes. Very, very severe case PTSD. But he would never just lie. You know what I mean? Like that's, I don't, I don't see that as being a crime. It's a clear symptom. Yeah. You know, of course, you know, that's, that's the thing when you, when you hand-wavingly put everything into one category. category of, you know, bad mental health and say, oh, well, you're not credible. I think that's just a disservice to so many people who've served in the military. For sure. And, you know, firefighters and police officers and everything else. Like there's a, that was, that was one of the lowest blows that I've seen. Yeah. Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think he's made the right call and just being very selective with who tells the story. Yeah. And of course, you know, I feel extremely lucky that he, you know, entrusted Jesse and I to do that. And, you know, I'm, I'm proud of what we've been able to make in the, in the time that we've had to be able to put these pieces out. And, but definitely if anything, again, back to the, to the original question, it's that it's me feeling that that video was blocked is what just made me want to double down a thousand times more. Oh, backfired on them. A hundred percent. I feel like there's a gap. And in, I don't want to call it in the market. Cause I, that's not how I look at it, but there's a gap in this space where if you're someone who doesn't know much about this topic, uh, there's not so many access points on the, on, on YouTube where you can just like watch easier way and easier. Yeah. Watch someone just like handhold and walk you through some of these cases. Like, you know, I, I, my favorite two channels on YouTube are American alchemy and area 52. I appreciate that. Sometimes I'm hesitant to tell someone who I am just getting into the, into the topic to go watch, you know, to go check out area 52, because I'm like, Oh my God, if they go and watch the wrong video, alien hair and DNA. And yeah, you know, which was an amazing, just incredible story and, you know, props to him for just having the courage to come and share. I get it. Like there are, there are better intro videos than that to, to ease someone in. Yeah. I, you know, you, you, you bring up a fair point and it's probably something that I should also be cognizant of. Um, for when I come across people who want to know what I do, you know, I should probably have some intro level video at least. And I'm, I'm sure if I look at my catalog, I can choose one to be like, start here. Yeah, actually definitely, definitely don't start with, uh, you know, the lizard people or something very quick and very random, but I think that can be fixed with, uh, creating a playlist for the channel that would be new here. Exactly. That will just, uh, sequentially be able to take someone. Yeah. Through, you know, a three, four episodes that just perfectly kind of give you the lay of the land. You've done this before. Yeah. And, um, so yeah, I, and, and also the other thing is the age of the people interested in the phenomenon. Isn't that crazy? I was shocked. Like I knew that it would probably lean. I'm going to pull it up, please. I knew that it would probably lean older, but when last night you told me about the demographic stats of, of your audience, I was like, Oh my God, we definitely, that needs to be one of the, the first things that we address to actually allow for the subjects to gain the traction that it needs. And we're going to go to audience here and I'm going to pull it up for you so you can see for yourselves. All right. Oh yeah. There you go. I mean, okay. So vastly different. So this is the age. Oh my God. This is the age breakdown of that was the last 30 days area 52s. Um, audience you have 13 to 17, 0%. Yeah. I've never seen that on YouTube. 18 to 24, 1.8%. And then 25 to 34, 16 and a half, 35 to 30, 35 to 44, 30%, 45 to 54, 24% quarter of the audience, 55 to 64 plus, or is that a 64? 55 to 64, 16.1%. 65 plus. 11.3%. I have never in 10 years I've been on YouTube. I have never seen anyone have the 55 to 65 plus be quarter of the audience. Literally quarter of the audience for you is 55 years old plus. Yeah. Well, if you want to go even further than that, over half of your audience, 60% of your audience is over 35 years old. And I just think this topic is going to affect our generation more. Yeah. More than them. And if anything, we need to just be better prepared with, because when it comes, when the time comes and something happens, they're going to overwhelm the heck. They're going to flood the space with, with just so much. The goal is going to be to overwhelm people in a way where the only thing that they would have left is to just believe whatever narrative that they're going to put, put forward. And that's, that's what I feel like I would like to participate in preparing the world. And not in like, I'm like the hero that is going to do it. I just feel like I've been, I've been given a very specific set of skills that I've been able to use in a way that I've been like extremely grateful for over the years to just create impact and allow people to live out their biggest dreams and their highest selves. And I just feel like at this point, I need to use that to tell better stories that will create these access points for people who don't know anything about this. That's a great point. And, and use the fact that I have some level of trust of people seeing, you know, my journey over 10 years on YouTube and just put that on the line. Like I literally willing to risk that to be like, this is worth looking at. This is worth paying attention to right now, not tomorrow, not, not after like just right now, we need to be understanding what is, what is happening, what's going to happen, because it's going to be very important. When shit hits the fan that we, that we have a grounded perspective on what's going on. Yeah. Well said. And if you need any pointers on making that transition. Oh my God. I mean, I just felt the way this happened, I was, I had just landed in New York cause I was running the New York city marathon a few days ago and you texted me going, what would it take to get you to the skiff? And in my, I was on the plane in my mind, I'm like, oh my God, what would it take? I would, I would, I would come from across the world to be in the skiff. Like I almost feel the entire time, you know, for however long we've been recording, I feel almost like an imposter. I feel like I shouldn't be here. There's so many people with so many incredible stories and perspectives. Like I, I just, um, so, so yeah, it just ended up working. You know, I live in Paris now I live in Europe and, and New York to here, it's an hour and a half away. So I'm like, oh my God, what would it take to get me to the skiff? I'm like, oh my God, just immensely inspired by what you've built here. And the leap that you've taken from being one of the biggest magic and puzzle channels on YouTube in the world to just being no, you know what I'm going to head on pursue this like thing that I'm curious about that I think is really important. And I'm going to do it in the best way possible. I'm going to take hundreds of thousands of people soon enough to be millions of people on that journey in a way that truly like allows, you know, I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to become more curious. I love what you say around, you know, suspend your judgment, leave it, leave it at the door. Just consider this to be a thought experiment. And really, cause I think when there is a hyper fixation on facts and information, I think people have the fallacy of thinking that's what you need to change someone's mind. But from my perspective, from my experience, it's, you need to make someone feel something so profound and so deep to their core that that will inspire that journey of them changing their mind. It starts with the heart and then the mind, you know, the mind follows there. Definitely. And I, and I really love the way you've been able to put out these stories and in a way that makes them digestible, fun to watch, you know, I feel like, you know, someone can be like, oh, this is too gimmicky, but I actually think you're doing the opposite. You're just creating an environment where someone can last three and a half hours listening to the craziest thing they're ever going to listen to. And I definitely, you know, I'm inspired, as I said, inspired by, by, by the greats, Jesse and yourself. And, and I want to, as I said, I see us covering different grounds in the phenomenon. Jesse's going head on at the, you know, technical and the historic, and you're going on with like, just the, the, again, the, the way do you actually, how do you actually tell the story to someone to make them open and to ask more questions? And the way I see myself participating in this is, as I said, create these access points where more young people can, can have access to much about it can can um can pursue it so it's almost moving from you know seek discomfort was the guiding principle in in my life to it being even more specific i'm just like seeking disclosure at this point and not the not the congress disclosure yeah it's it's it's the disclosure that is happening by personal disclosure by yeah that the the personal one that is happening within that is, you know, allowing me to feel like I've gone so much deeper into esoterics and religion and creation and my belief in God and spirituality. Like the topic and my interest in it has improved my life in so many ways and has allowed me to know some of the brightest, most incredible minds and hearts that I've ever met. Even, you know, Jesse and I were just in Norway chasing a story there, can't wait for it to come out at the end of the year, about the ghost rockets, which is a phenomenon that, you know, is happening back in the 50s. And I just, you know, the people that we were just meeting on a daily basis and, you know, the people who are into UFOs out in Scandinavia, Norway and Sweden. And you just see people who are driven by such purity in their intention to uncover this truth. There's no, I mean, of course you have to, you have to filter out people, but I've been lucky to come across the ones that are literally sacrificing to be able to do this work so that more people know about it. Yeah. Where the very minimal personal gain is being, is being made out of it. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, first of all, thank you for, for the kind words and I'm so glad you're a part of the space. I mean, I'm so glad that you're, you're interested in this and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're no stranger to being uncomfortable. And so, you know, that definitely helps someone like you get into this stuff. Um, you might actually be more well-equipped to handle a lot of this than, than most people because of that, right? Because of, you know, whether it's a bungee jumping out of a helicopter or, or, uh, you know, skydiving from, or, or, you know, going on top of the pyramid of Giza or like all these like wild things that you've done. And, you know, aliens might not be so wild. I'm just looking for that, man. I'm just, uh, actually it's funny. Like I look back at post 2020 when I got into the subject, like I would have moments when I'm skydiving and I'm like, just, I would belly fly. So I would just do nothing except like go on my belly and I'm just like scanning any orbs out there. Yeah. Any orbs out there. Yeah. I do, I do the same in an airplane. Yeah. But it's actually because I'm a skydiver, I'm also, and I, and I know I have the perspective of looking at things. Things from the sky and falling at such speed to just know how vast the sky is. And people who think that if there's something in the sky, I have to see it. You have no idea what you're talking about. Um, cause I can see my, like, you know, I jump out of a plane and I'm like turning around and I'm seeing that plane get smaller so fast until it just disappears. Yeah. And that's a, that's a big plane, you know, let alone be whatever size of object that we're looking for. So, um, yeah, man, I, as I said, I'm in this, um. This conversation feels very relevant to the, to the point that I'm at. Um, you know, I've been doing yesterday for 10 years now, and I decided to take the last three months off in the year and really just get to lock in and, and figure out how do I, how do I mix what I've, the mission that I've been on with the S theory, which feels like my life mission, you know, uh, giving a sense of belonging to people that watch through the community that forms around the ideas that we present, or just the idea of being a human being on planet earth. And seeing the different explorations throughout, through the different cultures and places that we get to visit. That's always been the ethos, the core that is like driving me personally within the S theory. So now I have that like a, you know, inspiring a sense of belonging about our human experience. And then the, and then this other calling where I'm like, I feel something massive coming, the biggest paradigm shift in the history of our species. And I feel like these two things can. Can be morphed into definitely into a new project that ultimately even allows me to feel that I'm truly responding to that calling without it being these it's the two silos, you know, my disclosure, you know, truth seeking, disclosure seeking mission that I, you know, that I've been lucky to be able to do and support, you know, on Jesse's channel and, you know, my life and work with the S theory. And I don't really like the fact that they have kind of split. Right. Especially, and that's the unfortunate thing, you know, post the grush piece, it not landing in the way that we had hoped. I am a bit hesitant to repeat, even, even though it's probably, as I say, it's probably more driven by, by fear, but also I think there, there's not a lot of spaces in the world, whether online or physical that are unifying and not polarizing. Yeah. And we've spent 10 years building S theories. Maybe one of the most unified unifying online spaces that maybe the hesitancy is just coming from, like, I don't want to put a topic in it that will just create a divide within an audience that feels so cohesive. Fair. That's been, you know, some of our conversations with you basically inviting me to just start something from scratch and take the ones who are interested in this. Yeah. People who are on similar journeys will find you. Yeah. And, you know, you don't want to waste your time or I wouldn't say waste your time, but you don't want to spend most of your time trying to convince those who don't want to. Yeah. Who don't want to be convinced. Yeah. Because it's, uh, it's a lot of, it's a lot of waste of energy that can be put towards nurturing a relationship that you have with people who are curious. Yeah. And then also possibly through that relationship that you're fostering with these curious people, you are creating an energy that does attract other people. Exactly. Who aren't interested. Yeah. You know, eventually they're going, what's going on? Maybe I should see what's going on over there. And, and, you know, they'll come check it out when they're ready. Yeah. And not everybody's, you know. Not everybody's on the same page. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm very cognizant of that. I think that it's very important. We're all on different life paths. We all, you know, whether you believe in, you know, reincarnation and we're here many, many times learning many different lessons. Like we're not all in that same lesson right now. Yeah. Some people are maybe just starting out and some people are so much further past that it looks like they're starting out to us, but they just have become nihilistic or like. Yeah. You know, or, or on some other. Frequency. So, yeah. I also think it's. Unfortunately, a privilege to be able to be able to have the time to think about all these things. Sure. And I think, you know, I've been since last night, since you told me about the demographics, I've kind of been obsessing over, like, why is that? It feels like it's again, more relevant to us. It's going to affect our life. Sure. In the short term, you know, I think more profoundly than someone in their sixties. Mm-hmm. And you just, you kind of. Kind of think of it as like, well, someone in their fifties or sixties, they've already done life. They've bought their house. They've had their, their life is pretty. Yeah. They're not afraid of scrutiny anymore. Their hierarchy of needs is, is met. Yeah. And now they have time to self-actualize and think about. And ask the bigger questions. Yeah. I wonder if it's just a matter of not being in the place in life where these are the questions that you're trying to answer. You're just trying to answer, like, what job am I going to have? How do I pay rent? How do I pay rent? My student debt's racking up. And that's, I mean, that's totally normal. That's okay. And you make a great point. I think, yeah, there's, you know, the audience. I'm grateful that the audience, by the way, is like my age and up for me, for this channel, because a, you know, coming from a YouTube channel where the audience wasn't so much younger, it was definitely like 18 to 35, but I also had under 18, you know, watching the puzzles and the magic stuff. Getting into a more mature audience, it allowed me to have more mature conversations and ideas that otherwise perhaps a less seasoned mind might dismiss as being completely insane. Whereas someone who's had time to sit around and think for a bit might go, hey, you know what? Maybe. And I think that that's a, that's part of the reason why it does attract. Uh, an older crowd, but I also think that the older crowd dealt with it a lot more than, than, you know, we have so much coming at us right now. The kids with, with phones and stuff, it's flavor of the week. So, okay. We got a congressional hearing hearing, you know, we're talking about it years later. They're talking, they're not talking about it two weeks after it happened. We're talking about a congressional hearing this year that happened around nine, nine 11, Charlie Kirk's assassination. So you're like, good. Good luck having anyone even pay attention to what was said. No, no matter how groundbreaking it is. Yeah. So, you know, you had to sit and stew in a lot of those things back in the day, right? Back in the eight, 70s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, you had to sit with that information and that was all you had. You had no further information. Yeah. Until it was brought to light. So I think a lot of, you know, cases as well, you know, there are some of the best researchers in ufology existed in those. Those times and they made it their whole life's mission to get the word out about whether it's abductions or the UFO, you know, phenomenon. And I think that had a long and lasting and profound impact on that generation. And perhaps there was a gap there during maybe the early 2000s. And now where, you know, there wasn't as a sharp as an impact as, you know, the predecessors had. So, you know, maybe that's where this. Social media stuff starts to come in now. And maybe like you said, maybe there is now more than ever a way for, you know, these, this younger generation to, to get involved. Yeah. Let me ask you this. If you had to right now, and you're talking to, you know, a young audience member, which, but they're not watching, but if, if you were hypothetically, right. Young in the heart. I'm not, I'm not saying you guys are too old. Right. I'm saying, you know. Where would you point them, if you had to point them to one source of content, whether it's a book, a movie, a podcast or show, what would that be? What would, what would you tell them? It's a very obscure one. It's not going to be Elio, is it? No, we just watched, which we should get to. We'll talk about it after. Yeah, we should get to. There's actually a show, let me just confirm the name, sorry, don't botch it. Well, I would suggest going to check out his Berkshire video on, on YouTube. Definitely, I'll put the link in the description. You definitely want to watch that, even if you are a seasoned veteran in the UFO stuff. Go watch the Yes Theory UFO videos and watch their other videos too. It is called. If you pull up Flight of the Navigator, you're going to be pretty impressed. No, it's called, it's an MGM plus. Also, great question for the audience while you're looking that up. Audience, in the comments below, if I'm new to this, like brand new, what's a book movie? Show or podcast that you would suggest? And hopefully whoever comes across this video, you know, has this crazy repertoire of like awesome insights. Oh, that's a beautiful prompt. Please do that. It's actually a show called Beyond that came out November 17th, 2024. And it's by MGM plus. Is it Leslie, Leslie Keen's on that, right? Yeah. Yeah, I remember seeing that. It's four episodes and I, I just thought it was one of the best made, most coherent, best UFO series ever made because it doesn't just focus on the nuts and bolts. It's also the consciousness interface part. And it felt like an amazing, like, yeah, if, if someone has a deep, genuine interest in this, this is an amazing place to go to, to be able to, yeah. And again, because it was an MGM plus, like I just did the, you know, the trial one week and, and watch it. And I was really, really blown away. And I think you can probably. You can probably find, I think they end up putting maybe an episode or two on YouTube. So the first episode. Yeah. So, you know, check it out there and, you know, on, on Apple TV, you can always, you can always get to it. But when, when I feel like that's too high of a friction for someone to go and sign up or something, I usually say the phenomenon. That's what I was going to say. James, James Fox. It's a great, it's probably the best entry point, I think, in terms of a documentary because it covers such a massive scale of, you know, sightings, encounters. Run-ins, like all this from legacy to. Yeah. And, and I, the phenomenon was how I, that was the first thing that I watched after, because the phenomenon, the phenomena came out the day after I put the Berkshires. Oh, wow. So you were something like that. You were like, so yeah, yeah. And then in the phenomenon, the aerial case, which was the very end of the film, was what got me to just be like, what is in here? I want to know more. Yeah. There was something about watching kids. Like I responded to old people, you know, people in their late fifties and sixties. Sorry. Yeah. Careful. Them's fighting words around here. That I just, you know, looked at and realized, oh, this, they have no reason to lie. I had this similarly, but different feeling when kids were describing what they went through and there was, and then that was also where I saw Dr. John Mack for the first time and I immediately, I had such a, like a deep feeling towards him and I didn't understand it. Then I was like, who's this guy who was just asking questions and being so attentive to what kids were saying. And then I come across the believer, which is, you know, Dr. John Mack's biography. And I just read it and something I almost, I, I understood what that feeling that I had towards him after I got to know his story, because he was just a true hero who put, sacrificed so much and put so much on the line to listen to people who had stories that nobody else believed. And I think for me, because that's the way I got into the phenomenon, I just felt so bad for the, for the people that I talked to in the Berkshires video, who, you know, as I said, now in their fifties and sixties, who were just describing what they went through as kids and what their, you know, Tom Reed, who's one of the main subjects of that case, his mom would be harassed. They owned the, they owned a diner in the town. And his mom was like the refuge to all these kids that their parents didn't believe. But because Tom's mom was in the car with him, ending up switching places with his grandma, you know, and who didn't drive, who didn't drive, like she had more empathy because she just didn't deny these kids what they, what they went through. And, and I, and I just, I felt so mad. Yeah. At the world and at myself simultaneously, because I was one of those people that would, like, who knows what would have happened if I lived in that town during that time. If right now I have the entire internet, I have all of YouTube and I could, if I just spare half an hour to an hour, maybe I, and I'm not a believer or like I never had curiosity towards the subject. You just spend half an hour and, and I promise that half an hour will make you want to ask more questions. I'm not going to say half an hour, you're going to, you know, with certainty know that the phenomenon is real. But at the least that half hour should generate like another week of like research because it should just be like all these question marks that you're, that you're coming across. And, and yeah, as I said, for me, because, um, my entry point was failing to believe people that, you know, did everything to, to be vulnerable and share their, their truth. I, um, I really connected with Dr. John Mack because I think that's what he did to people, you know, during the time that he, you know, started interviewing experiencers and abductees and, um, and I just, yeah, I thought he was, he was a great man and I, and I, I wanted in, in some shape or form to keep carrying that message of just giving people a platform, a way to listen to their stories attentively and, and make them feel, you know, seen and heard and, uh, and ultimately, you know, allow for this information to hopefully change something. Yeah. In the public. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you touched on something there that is really, I think one of the, one of the things that comes up a lot in this space, which is the word belief. And I believe you, or I want to believe, or do you believe this person? Is that believable? This is unbelievable. This word is just such a, a binary concept and there's no nuance to it. No. And I feel that that's not fair for something that requires an immense amount of nuance in this subject. Agreed. And so, you know, Jesse refers to this a lot as well, and I do now as well, but like this idea of conviction level, um, because if, if I choose to believe something, then automatically more data comes in through a filter of belief. And if I choose to not believe, then I'm filtering out data that I don't want to hear that doesn't fit my model. And John Mack had a wonderful way of putting it. And, uh, in, in his book, um, abduction, yeah, abductions, he, he said, you know, there's three things you can do with information. You can either, uh, apply it, uh, you can either, you know, fit it into the, completely ignore it, fit it into your current model or expand your worldview. And that, that's it. That's really all you can do. And most people will do the first two. Most people will ignore. And I don't blame them for that. As you said, people got a lot of things going on. Why would you shake up their whole life and they still got to go to work? You know, I get it. You know, you don't want to hear about it. Totally fine. If you think it's going to rock your world too much, then who am I to say, you got to look at this. And secondly, you know, you have more people trying to fit it into their current worldview for the same reason. Um, but also that's where the skepticism lies as well is, oh, it's a weather balloon. It's swamp gas. It's this and that. The hardest thing to do. And often the riskiest and the bravest and, you know, the one that'll probably ruin some relationships is broadening your worldview. But one thing that you don't want to do right off the bat with that worldview is saying, I believe everything. Yeah. Because we're looking at anomalies, we automatically have to sort of look at all the anomalies within the anomaly. Yeah. And there are many anomalies, dude. There are lizard people that are Nazis that are on the moon. Like it doesn't end. And I'm sure someone's out there like, wait, what do you mean they're not real? You know, but the idea is that, yeah, you have to sort of mitigate this belief. And I think a good way of doing that is like you said, judgment-free. Let's just have the conversation. I don't need to tell you whether I believe you or not. Who cares? Who cares what I think? Yeah. Let's just have the conversation and thank you for sharing, you know, what you think is true. And that's, that's all that matters. Yeah. And if we can foster a community. A community and a platform, multiple platforms that can do that. I think we're just helping disclosure in our own way. A hundred percent. And I almost have a, whenever I meet someone who doesn't, has not come across the subject, I have like an immediate classification. You're either an open-minded skeptic or just your classic closed-minded skeptic who won't, who will do the first two things. And that usually I will not. There's like, I have a few litmus tests for how to like figure that out. What is, what's, what's your, what's your initial litmus test? I want to know. I need to. Well, it's usually, it's usually just kind of, uh, see. their initial reaction bringing up the subject yeah okay well how do you bring it up you usually like oh you see this ufo thing the other day or like do you casually bring it up or do you like straight up go like dude i spoke to a whistleblower no no i usually go i usually ask a more general question it was like oh do you do you think we've been visited are we you know that's interesting because that's a leading question too yeah yeah yeah well i yeah you're ruling out the ultra-terrestrials now are you ruling out the interdimensional well i think being visited from from a realm i'm not saying necessarily from you know up to down but um yeah and and usually the way they respond to the question uh tells me a lot about yeah about their yeah if they go are you high yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly um or they just like have the classic kind of like they laugh and they're a little green man yeah yeah yeah um rather than it being you oh like you know tell me more or them having curiosity over the journey that makes me ask that question right uh yeah i think the ridicule part is is my litmus test it's like are you is your instinct to ridicule someone for bringing that topic up or is it to just ask more questions um but now i forgot where i was going with this that's good enough we got we got somewhere but what i do want to talk about is elio yeah yeah we gotta talk about this so uh last night we're hanging out at the hotel um meeting ammar and we're just like we're having dinner and he goes did you hear about this pixar movie that was about alien abduction today what what i'm like surely you must be mistaken or maybe it's like some foreign you know small budget pixar offshoot no full-fledged disney production of a child named elio who wants to be abducted by aliens whose aunt is part of space force what are what a wild ride because what we were talking about your journey yeah um which we'll get into eventually here but is about this like you know creating some type of um ambassadorship if you like on planet earth for you know the phenomenon out there yeah that's exactly what this movie's about yeah wild yeah it was it was so wild even the the seed of motivation for the child in the film was the golden record which which is my and what's the golden record for those listening who might not know the golden record was basically the best description for us is that it was the message in the bottle that we put out in into into space on the hubble right uh on voyager on voyager right yeah not the whole way and uh and it is now the farthest objects that we've ever sent into space they're about one day light one day light one light day away um which is just wild all this time the farthest object that we've ever managed to send is one light day away um but the golden record holds um basically some fundamental information about life on earth about planet earth uh the makeup of life here the fact that it's carbon based some references to dna and also an hour and a half of earth's greatest hits and when i came across when i got to learn about the golden record i just felt so immensely inspired and i immediately asked myself what exists today that can give people that same feeling golden record was 50 years ago and also who picked the hour and a half like whose whose decision was that i didn't put my favorite egyptian song in there like sure yeah born and raised in egypt like but a lot a lot of things also 50 years ago that aren't too kosher nowadays yeah yeah exactly what do we put on there yeah it's a bad tweets going out what's going on um and and i just uh yeah i immediately just became obsessed with how do you recreate that experiment today in a way that makes it more global than ever more reachable than ever and um more inclusive than ever that was part of your sort of inspiration into like pursuing this and and you know seeing that on this little pixar movie right at the top we're like whoa i mean you saw i immediately teared up because it just felt like uh it's like oh i really get what this child is feeling because i felt that yeah and um but yeah i think let's go back to ilia before we get to earth and talking about that because i thought i found it very odd that not a child was able to do that because i was able to do a single person that i mentioned ilia not a single person that i mentioned ilia too and this is a disney pixar they spend millions tens of millions of dollars in marketing as decent when they make movies they make sure that people know that a movie was made nobody knew so that's like general public i thought maybe my friends who are in the ufo space would get a would hear about this you know the trailer went out a year ago nobody a year ago a year ago that's crazy dude i this is not yeah i i had no idea what you were talking about well i only saw i only saw the trailer in uh in march of this year so i didn't even see it when it when it came out a year how did you see it there's a on twitter youtube or something on youtube yeah and not even that it showed up it's just someone mentioned the new pixar and i was like i haven't heard of that but they didn't even mention in the context of it being like about the interest that i have yeah yeah it was just like and then i go on i watched the trailer i remember it's two minutes of just goosebumps because what what the trailer referenced made me perfectly see that this was if there's like a a plan to prepare the public for what's to come this is one of the biggest moves that you could make soft disclosure for the kids soft disclosure for the kids you're priming a child to grow up to not fear these concepts of um abduction and yeah they are even talking about like having samples taken like yeah it was normalizing things probe yeah yeah probe oh so i'm just getting probed like he was happy to get um things that felt very much directed at just like normalizing certain things that maybe that i believe that will be way more out there and people will get to learn about it so it's really important to like prepare kids to receive some of these concepts even even when you see like the alien forms and the way the physical forms are like they're like they're like they're like they're kind of interdimensional yeah yeah um the craft is non-physical the craft spawns from the ocean yep uh right at the right at the top a lot of telepathy telepathy there's all the classic sort of like tropes but reimagined not even tropes the classic like symptoms of an abduction but reimagined in a pixar universe yeah you know they made it cute and whatnot but which is wild because you know obviously horrific yeah to a lot of people um and to make a pixar movie out of it was it was uh was interesting and then beyond that beyond you know the the happy story of you know which was a great story great message beyond that you have some very real um military presence in this movie and we stayed to the end i remember you know we watched uh the end credits here and at the very end this is so wild i wanted to see because you see the badge it says space force yeah it's the air force base and there's even a there's even a box and they mention arrow that was the craziest mention in the whole film i think yeah it's like oh is there aliens there i don't know but arrows here and like you're we're like wait we had to rewind it we're like did they say arrow we literally had in the same breath we go did they just say arrow and then we rewinded like 10 seconds to hear it again and they did and then even on one of the crates yeah you know just like those skunk work crates in close encounters you had the arrow a a r o yeah you know on the box i was like oh they're really putting this out there and then at the very end there's a there's a mention and it says and i'll put this up and it says future earth ambassadors right yeah which is wild yeah and it has a bunch of first names and then under that it says the producers gratefully acknowledge the cooperation of the united states department of defense and department of the air force additionally the producers acknowledge the guardians with a capital g uh serving in the united states space force for their time and help in lending authenticity to our narrative about space missions and daily life in the military so i mean kind of wild but you do have to get everything approved through like you know the defense department but it isn't saying that they're like we're grateful to the department of defense i mean a pixar movie about abductions what are you talking about yeah yeah and then like for the the depiction to make it authentic i'm like the entire thing is about alien spacecrafts and interdimensional what do you mean lend authenticity to our story yeah so you're what you're saying that this is we're talking about an authentic story there's like a retrieval at the end yeah yeah it's kind of crazy and it's just as you said like we've never really seen like space force is like a and it's the air force's logo like they're not yeah it's not some made-up thing yeah they use like legit space yeah things the other thought the other thing that i thought was really interesting at one point you pointed out um the the child's aunt who's in space force and she keeps referencing astronauts they reference astronauts a whole bunch and don't even get into it it's kind of weird yeah but she um she plucks a hair sample from like one of the one of the aliens and looks at it in a microscope um you know and it's it's a whole thing about alien hair yeah and i just did this podcast with with peter about an alien hair so i filmed that whole segment i saw i'll put it up i'll put it up here but i sent that to peter and i was like dude what and he's like where do you think they got that idea i'm like i don't know but it's kind of crazy that we're looking at alien hair now in a pixar movie no there's so many there are so many references i really yeah it's on disney plus if anyone wants to wants to check it out definitely recommend especially if people out there with their kids and yeah they already hear you talking about this all the time i feel like that would be a quite a good generational bridge yeah maybe that's the the recommend yeah for the very young young yeah exactly you gotta start somewhere what would be a recommendation for like what would you send people to if they yeah i think the phenomenon as well there's also a i mean there's a few things the phenomenon would definitely be one but i also i'm a i'm a big fan of like moment of contact and i think for the hard skeptic out there i think the moment of contact is like a sole single case with many many witnesses in a town that has like you don't see a lot of reason for people to be lying yeah and i think that one hit home for me like a lot because it's also it also happened during my lifetime yeah you know 96 i would have been 12 years old like you know that's a that's a wild thing to think about for me to be like oh i was playing playing outside with friends while you know some aliens were running around in this town and then lastly i think um the show i think i'm trying to think of the name here uh it was a steven spielberg show it's on youtube do you know this no not contact is it it's not contact great movie though oh yeah great movie um i'm i'll google it real quick um but this is if you've never seen this oh you're gonna um you're gonna love this uh no encounters was a docu-series from netflix taken taken do you know about taken no whoa what taken is probably i would say like after you watch that you go spielberg knows it's a 10 you watch close encounters and you're like yeah wait till you see taken okay because it's like psyop nazis crash retrieval um bodies autopsies it goes into like all and like psionics and like dude it is when was it made this was like early 2000s oh wow free on youtube 10 episodes called taken every time i asked somebody like oh what's something you should watch everybody references taken because i have never even flew under the radar and it's spielberg okay i got my own theories about spielberg but well when you said yeah spielberg knows i i think there has been a select few people in society that like in media and stuff yeah that that have been and i think disney has had the i think he's got a very important role yeah big time i think and it's like we're now in like the maybe final act the act before the final act in in his like disclosure mission yeah with the film coming out next year apparently that's not the name of the movie oh it's not gonna be disclosure no oh interesting yeah um maybe two on the nose or something yeah but it's also maybe like i mean i threw this theory out there okay a couple months ago where i was like oh i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna i was like what if all right like spielberg um shows a long time ago well that's what i'm thinking what if a long time ago he was given a deal like hey man play ball you're gonna be our guy we're gonna find you we'll give you you know who names a movie close encounter of the third kind like what an insane who would let you name that yeah no nobody yeah nobody that's who that's it this way that's the wildest title of a movie yeah hollywood millions of dollars we're gonna let you just ruin it with some sentence of a name like there's no way it's an obscure passage in jay allen hynek's book it makes no sense yeah no we're gonna we're gonna let you do that we'll let you do whatever you want essentially wow and you know from taken to et to close encounters um you know he's he's just hit the entire spectrum of soft disclosure and then gets you know a movie and calls it disclosure and you're thinking i'm thinking what better way to serve up disclosure in america than to see it on the big screen while you're stuffing your face full of popcorn and you look at the opening credits and it goes this movie features a real ufo courtesy of the united states navy or air force or whatever and then you go wait what and even maybe the actors don't even know that they're filming inside of the ufo maybe they don't know maybe that's what all the hubbub was in jersey because that's exactly the time that they were filming oh no way yeah and so right after and so maybe they were moving something um and so i thought whoa i wouldn't be too mad i would not be mad at all if you told me that that was disclosure i would forgive so much you know i would look past a lot of the shortcomings the government had and be like yeah but you gave us the biggest blockbuster hit of all time and i would be like in theaters now get to see a real ufo there's no there's no more american way of disclosure there is no and when when that movie title came out disclosure two people in congress retweeted it burleson and luna and they said um you won't want to miss this about the movie so they know what the content of the movie before yeah i don't know that they know that but that's a wild thing to tweet out from a congressperson like about a movie yeah like that doesn't that's not super credible it's weird so i just thought man that would be that would be it well ladies and gentlemen you heard it here first that was to come true yeah maybe they caught wind of this they were like man we gotta change the name now this guy's hot on our trail no he's just um yeah clearly well i've i watched i just watched et for the first time like three weeks ago which i know for people that like knowing that i'm into the way i haven't seen star wars star trek like i've actually as a kid i never i didn't like fantasy i didn't like sci-fi um don't respond well to things that don't feel real yeah um which is that's that's my closest friends find it really really ironic now that i'm saying all these things that don't sound real whatsoever but to me they're yeah they're more real than that contest and et was very real there's a lot of very real elements in et yeah yeah that's the lapid telepathy stuff the also making making us look at this ugly hideous creature and thinking it's friendly which is what i thought ilio did really really well a lot of hideous creatures that yeah why would yeah don't be scared of these normalizing yeah normalizing different forms yeah yeah maybe they're friendly it's funny i actually didn't watch et because i thought that thing was hideous and i thought i was like oh it's just like it's a wild choice yeah to make a friend yeah yeah no it's um have you seen flight of the navigator no that's a good one okay that's a good one they actually shot that at nasa they shot it at the what is it called flight of flight of the navigator okay i'll check it yeah dude 80s okay oh all day amazing the audience already knows like flight of the navigator is a solid solid movie that a kid who has like a psionics relationship with like a oh wow on the nose so many different ways they test him like they they literally hook him up to like um one of these things like an oscilloscope and have him like move frequencies where did you hear that before dan sherman oh my god yeah yeah it's in that movie whoa yep yeah there's all sorts of all sorts of really interesting stuff in that movie makes sense right like to what we were talking about you really change people's minds by making them feel not giving them information and if you've already made them feel something in a story that is close enough to what will happen oh you've already simulated that reality for them that when it actually happens the reaction is not going to be as jarring or as as intense so i think softening the blow has been the name of the game for hollywood for the past seven years definitely and and i think you know disney not because of elia because of other things disney has had like a big a big role in that and and spielberg has had a big role of that someone like i don't know james cameron was he made abyss right yep yeah true yeah yeah um so yeah and you know i feel like we're just the new generation that is doing it not because someone in the government is being like oh this is the deal this is we'll give you access these whistleblowers but you know like we're just we're just doing it because we're genuinely following our curiosity and you know we get to do it in ways that is so creative and so innovative and we're just doing it because we're genuinely following our curiosity and so innovative like we are putting our art yeah and artistry into being able to tell these stories in a way that in like movies make people feel thankful things and make give people a sense of you know entertainment and and um enjoy watching something and i you know as i said that's why i really respect what you've what you've come to add to the space and and uh and yeah man i i i take a lot of inspiration from that going into this next stage and and you know building what i i'm excited i want to build yeah i'm excited to see i'm excited what you know to see because you're also a very creative thinker and you know it's it's just always nice to be able to as a creator get inspired you know by other like-minded people who you know have a different angle to things so i mean you know there's that's the other thing too like collaboratively you know we're going to get way further if you look at the history of man all of our innovations have come from war all of our technological innovations have come from war we're extremely good at killing people like that's what humanity's unfortunately we're not good at killing people we're not good at killing people we're not good really good at yeah and you know very creative and finding ways to do that i'd like to imagine once we get past all that how faster and exponentially faster we grow technologically speaking when we collaborate 100 when we figure out that like oh we you know it's not always sword sharpened sword like we don't have to do that and once we get past that i think i think that's if there is a space faring civilization that's you know left there left their own solar system or their own planet they've gotten there because they've stopped war yeah and maybe that's the great filter that was you know being referred to by um um for me yeah for me yeah yeah maybe the great filter is to get past that point yeah to drop the nukes yeah yeah and uh i don't know where i heard that but i heard it yesterday or this morning maybe that maybe our purpose was not that was me the nukes but uh yeah i said like yeah maybe the uh rid of them yeah like like a prime directive yeah instead of having that prime directive be oh you discover warp drive yeah you discover nuclear warheads it becomes oh you've discovered nukes and now you throw them away yeah you've risen above it that's where they're like hey welcome to the family yeah yeah and again that maybe that's why they have the just the deep interest in our nuclear installations and anything and we were close with kennedy yeah that's as close as we can get to that point we got to to you know with jfk you know speaking of nuclear and presidents is because it's relevant we're in canada um do you know that jimmy carter responded to the biggest nuclear disaster in north america here in canada and he was one of the engineers that they got dropped down to the the core of the reactor that was really messed up and he was radioactive for like a couple of months after no way so when you think about he so jimmy carter is a nuclear engineer right if there's any u.s president that is going to have a siding who would it be yeah a nuclear engineer like when i when i when i connected the dots and i was like oh my god it makes so much sense not once he sees it twice and and uh and i think as looking at u.s presidents as someone who's like really put peace and and cooperation at the forefront of policy he was he was definitely someone that did that yeah yeah may his soul rest in peace and i know that he wasn't revered as like a great president but i just think in terms of values and in terms of like someone who's like lived up to to to such great values to the very end of their life he was if ever there was a president to make contact yeah yeah might have been it yeah yeah i i've i fear you know throwing a world leader in front of an extraterrestrial you know we think of initially i think of eisenhower the militarized you know industrial complex well you know a crazy connection that i also like couldn't get over when i started learning when i got into the topic i came to america for the first time through an invitation by mary jean eisenhower whoa his granddaughter whoa yeah and she just started the this non-profit called people to people international and in my small town in sedat city in egypt maybe her daughter's into his daughter or his granddaughter one of them so i'm talking about his granddaughter now okay because she's she's old i mean she's in her maybe 50s or 60s at 10 15 years old and she's like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't but um yeah i that was like i was representing egypt and and i went to colorado colorado springs oh yeah which is like also weird yeah um but i just always found it to be like such a wild coincidence that i like my first time in america was because i was you know participating in her in her non-profit that was about connecting people and and all these years later i you know i discovered that maybe her maybe you've been ushered into this thing you don't even know your path has been chosen for you yeah but i i do think his his speech is you know feral speech is one of the most important and slept on terrifying yeah like i think if anything it's that speech that makes me think that he did that something happened during his time oh yeah and they and the military industry complex acted in a way that completely put humanity as like humanity's interest on the side and i think that just really really scared him on his way out and i don't know i mean they only scared him when he lost power yeah true yeah could have when you have power you kind of don't see it i guess or you're you're part of the machine you're part of the game yeah and you're out and you go wait what have i done what's going on here this is dangerous yeah it's one of those things man and like you know it's cold war era so that's you know i i don't have a hard time blaming them for covering that up back then you know coming from what had happened to the manhattan or the uh yeah the manhattan project and like all that stuff they were sworn to secrecy and because of that were deemed heroic and so that mentality kind of didn't go anywhere yeah that was still the mentality post-war that if you were read into a secret compartmentalized special access program that you were considered heroic and that patriotism is what covered up a lot of that stuff for a lot of years you know and now it's starting to wane i think it's starting to you know rip at the seams because people the more patriotic thing would seem to to protect the people yeah and not just the military's interest exactly yeah yeah man so out of all the people like you've met some really you know for someone just getting into the space as well you know you've gotten to through you know knowing jesse you've gotten to meet david grush you've gotten to hang out with lou elizondo with uh beatrice villa villa royal very oh yeah villa via royal very oh yeah okay close enough um you know you got to meet all the people yeah all these like just so many of the people that define my journey and like look of course all this stuff yeah yeah um even jake barber yeah um aside from david grush who was someone that really rocked your world mario woods mario woods yeah yeah i think maybe because there was a connection to egypt there where he just um for context but i mean his story is so wild that you should just check out jesse's video that he that he did on him that mario woods was a secure a nuclear security officer uh protecting uh a nuclear installation called november 5 in was it montana november 5 is an interesting thing yeah again we talked yeah yeah fifth remember the 5th of november i watched last time i watched that movie i watched it with jesse i think i didn't stop crying for like 10-15 minutes after it hit me so fucking deep and again i like for context too i you know i'm i'm a child of the arab spring and the egyptian revolution it was you know i was the most defining pivotal years of my life where then i had so much hope for like political change to happen through you know people mobilizing and coming together and so i get very uh i get very affected by stories of of of revolution and and revolutionaries and people you know sacrificing for a greater cause so mario woods mario yeah thank you for thank you for everybody so for uh oh yeah i went on a tangent about november yeah that was me that was my fault that was my fault i hit you with the november 5 yeah i my brain you know connected travis walton's thing when bob lazar came it's all fifth of november and then you have november 5 and i'm like what is going maybe i'll just keep it i'll keep it light but also yesterday or two days ago yeah yeah true um mario woods nuclear security officer one night as he's guarding one of the nukes uh he just has this incredible encounter where missing time all the classics missing time big object massive describes it as a sphere the size of a walmart hovering 10 feet above where this nuke is where like the door would open and and then the thing the the orb whatever that sphere was like activates the nuke and like the door starts opening and then he's immediately starting thinking about like the procedure for what he does to prevent the nuke from opening like he was gonna go drive his truck over that door so that when the door opens it the truck goes down and on the on the missile guidance system and and the and the icbm does like you know it's the scariest situation that you could find yourself in as a nuclear security officer you have a nuke that is going on online so um there was just something so first of all he's just a sharp man who you know you would never guess he's 70 years old now you could be like this man is now early 50s yeah it's just like you know you can just feel the life force which also makes you think like of course that's the guy they would pick to protect nukes like yeah the crown jewels of american of of defense in the world yeah um he was just so sharp and lucid remembered things so clearly he just felt like he was like a no bullshit guy and then i think that the other thing that i think made it more of a personal experience is that he started never really had interest in the pyramids or egypt but after that experience he started getting a shit ton of downloads about about egypt and he would see hieroglyphics and yeah a lot of dreams a lot of like sort of like what yeah felt like prophetic dreams that he had and like journeys in those dreams that felt more vivid than regular dreams yeah he still acknowledges them as dreams by the way he doesn't say that they were like real but you know they affected him yeah yeah so i just uh you know i asked him if he'd ever been to egypt and he said no and i just told him like i would be honored to just be the reason for him you know to go to egypt so at some point in the next few months he was getting his passport i i plan on on on taking him to egypt wow i just want to watch him see the pyramids for the first time and i want to take him to the you know the new museum and oh that's right they just opened that yeah like i think i want to go to egypt i we should just take it we should we should go there and interview him there like let's go let's do it let's go amazing all right um yeah i just uh i for some reason i have these like feelings that certain artifacts are going to call him in more than others because he told me the story once about he visited a collector in the u.s uh like egyptian artifacts like a collector and apparently instinctively he went to like the oldest most mysterious object in the entire collection it was like hundreds of pieces and the guy the collector found it to be very odd that he was like that's the one that he knew yeah so i just um again go back to the question i just found him to be super sincere and just very likable as a person and i just found him to be super sincere and just very likable as a person and and i was very happy that people that's that was like the main bulk of people's comments on jesse's videos that they they really liked him and i could just it was like a really amazing sometimes you talk to people and you really have like a positive reaction to them in the moment like sitting with them but maybe on camera it doesn't you know it doesn't translate as well but with him it was just like equally as good in person as it was as it was on camera he's just a stud you know like yeah yeah i spoke to him uh jesse introduced me to him and i spoke to him over the phone one night for like three hours yeah amazing i like i was i was in i was in my pool and um i i see the you know i see the text like i was like i'm gonna call him right now so he's up let's call him right now yeah and we just stayed on the phone for like three hours i was all i had all my wrinkly hands afterwards doesn't apply i couldn't walk away he's the most fascinating guy uh you know no bs just very um yeah i mean to be in that line of work by the way it's not everybody who can do that because it's the the the standards are so high and the testing is so rigorous and you know making sure that you're sober of sober mind is like imperative because you're in charge of the most dangerous thing in the world yeah you have within your line of sight something that can destroy the entire earth and everything on it forever did you watch there's a movie recently dynamite room or something not yet but i i heard that the dod did not like really yeah yeah they had they went out they made a statement they said that that that is not like it would never happen yeah yeah yeah because it scared the crap out of me like it is scary yeah you see this like scenario right of the doomsday scenario and you see it from like three points of view is essentially the movie and whoa if it is anything like that we're not as safe as we think we are yeah and that is terrifying like when you see that like somebody describes it as hitting a bullet with another bullet is what we have to do to like stop these things you're like wait what i thought you guys had this locked in and so i can understand why the dod would not like that yeah i think it was something it was a specific reference around i think they mentioned a stat in the film about like our air defense against new york and i think it was something it was a specific reference around i think they mentioned like 60 yeah but they came and negated that yeah of course know everything that we have he's gonna be all right yeah but of course you'd say that of course yeah of course even in the movie there's a there's a guy i don't want to give too much there is a guy like you know higher up a general or whatever and he's calming people down in the other room he's like i don't know it's just a glitch on the screen or whatever don't worry yeah we're america you know we got this um but yeah it's terrifying so yeah let's uh let's definitely take more your woods to egypt and that'd be cool just experientially live that with him and ask him more about his uh yeah about his story i had some i had some like egyptian um sightings in my dmt trip too so oh no way yeah then okay let's definitely let's go what about you who's someone that you've talked to that really left an impact i got i i think you know a lot of i think a lot of people have okay um i'm trying to i mean i'm trying to pinpoint exactly who i could say because a lot of them have um i would say i mean peter curry was i think one of the most impactful because again um i would rather talk to a farmer than a lawmaker yeah in this in this category and peter curry you know not just like everybody else in the world not without his flaws and he's human and when you talk to experiencers as a magician i'm aware that things might not always be as it was and that's not their fault that's just the human condition and relaying story yeah putting that aside seeing him as a magician i'm aware that he's his emotional response to what he was saying struck me as very genuine yeah and the context of what he was saying was so radical yeah that you know talking about being presented his alien child and that was like like i told you off camera it's like the fifth time i've heard something like that in person yeah by experience and i'm aware that that's what it is and i'm aware that that's what it is and i'm aware that that's what it is and i'm aware that that's what it is and i'm aware that that's what it is and i'm aware that that's what it is incredible people and don't didn't know about each other's story because these aren't in print like and you know they're telling me the same details of how that went down and then seeing him break down um to me that was like extremely extremely profound and you know definitely you know if you're just getting into the topic don't start at that point of the conversation yeah uh with you know with peter curry but it is one of those you know i've been following dr david jacobs work for a long time i've been you know reading up on every you know whether it's bud hopkins or you know um john mack or you know john keel like so many researchers and that's come up you know even with bud hopkins and and deborah jordan that you know that comes up as well and um it to me would if anything would mess you up more so than having a sample taken or you know doing something weird to your privates or like whatever that is i think being shown what you believe to be your offspring yeah on an alien ship that looks you know it's got a big head and stuff like what are you even saying yeah like that's gotta mess you up forever dude and and in any in any context you know whether whether if if you if you if what you're seeing you take to be true then that will mess you up yeah and so yeah i think i think that one but anytime i hear an experience or even travis walton um anytime i hear somebody who's experienced something um joe mcmonigal i think you know even though joe tells story you know he's a good storyteller yeah yeah um he's got a lot of receipts yeah you know dr edwin may was another one who you know really blew blew my mind and yeah so quite quite a few yeah another another person that definitely left a massive impact was was uh robert hastings yeah ufos and nukes just as like one of the most referenced you know hard-headed empirical like evidence that you can give to whatever engineer you're talking to that doesn't believe that something happens like that's usually a big reference that i give and getting to talk to him and and getting even getting to know more than than what is mentioned in ufos and nukes yeah um about his own personal experiences raise your conviction level oh yeah even higher yeah for sure yeah um it actually made me made me realize that the people have come forward they still it's most likely that they haven't told us everything yeah because if they tell us everything they got nothing left they got nothing no not that they even got nothing left but they just they're almost trying to manage the way someone will receive the information like oh yeah like some parts of this are almost too extreme to be mentioned oh and they and they they keep it up so for instance like the fact that he's had the people that have come up to him to self-report that they've had close encounters of the third kind post their military installation encounters was was pretty high and he's pretty high conviction that it's it's way more people than than the ones that self-reported you know seeing something and interacting with the light or is different than oh no I end up on the craft not just that that craft continued to come and visit me for the years that followed like that's a different story yeah to just and again he's you know in his late 70s or early 80s and and to just see that level of passion and to see someone who's put their whole life to to making sure that at some point people just know that all of this happened and now you know it is for you me and Jesse it's like we always reference that as like a as a way for someone to get confirmation from people who are extremely credible on the nature of the phenomenon or its relationship to nukes yeah so yeah between funny enough that both people are nuclear connected well it's it's it's it's it's an undeniable truth yeah when you mention people in that position yeah and so yeah definitely if you're looking for some type of like stability in you know warming up to this yeah you would need credibility you know and people who are vouched for you know that's why you know pilots who are trained to see things you know are so much in people's eyes you know held in higher regard when it comes to sightings and you know reporting or police officers and so many police officers by the way yeah yeah yeah yeah I've covered I think three or four cases but like other than Lonnie's and more I mean there's so so so many police officers I mean you're telling me to some of the calls that you're getting yeah the ones that play at the beginning of episodes which by the way I freaking love yeah I have thousands yeah there's thousands of calls which by the way I think okay maybe you guys can encourage Chris to do something like this to do this but I think the cases that he finds interesting if he does a follow up just on the phone like from the scale from your desk yeah I would watch that yeah because in my mind I feel like it would be pretty light conversation and also knowing that well this person I'm only like listening to them through their voice their face is not on they don't really have sure much to gain I'll try it I feel like that could yeah maybe if you guys want that dude I'm down I'm down to do fun things yeah I'll do one I've got I've already got a few in mind okay amazing I would have to clear it with them a lot of people don't want to be you know but if it's over the phone maybe they'll just like yeah you just change the pitch of their voice and have them just like put the names in different with aliases or something sure yeah because there's some wild stories out there dude like I play a lot of people get upset and they're like why'd you cut it I'm like it's a minute it gets cut automatically and I like it I like it that it's like oh yeah oh and if you want to follow up you just and it shows you how many people are out there and how many stories are out there for me what really hit me is after we put the grush piece I started getting DMs from around the world yep and then I made it I made a point in all my travels with Yes Theory in asking people in the places that I travel to that are very far and off the beaten path whether it's I don't know Yakutia in Yakutsk and Yakutia and like in Siberia and Russia you know or Kazakhstan near the nuclear testing site and I I have a I have like an 8 out of 10 hit rate with just complete strangers that are not at all connected to them like in different places people have stories people have seen things their parents have seen things like I one of the he was a Yes Theory subscriber that came and very kindly you know greeted us into Kazakhstan and I as I do I just talk about the phenomenon talk about this and he told me when I watched that video in the Berkshires it was the first time he remembered something that his mom said when he was a kid about something that she went through that he never believed and kind of dismissed but that video was the reason he went back to his mom and asked her about the experience and it was a classic abduction experience in Kazakhstan just like back in the day everybody's got a story man yeah which is by the way Kazakhstan also the reason I asked her because it's where the most nuclear tests on earth you know I didn't know that happened the most density in any places well um first of all that would be a hot spot then wouldn't it yeah oh my god so so yeah I just there's a follow-up video in Kazakhstan to be done yeah oh man I mean the amount of follow-ups if I if I were to just like fully track you know trace the I mean Kazakhstan is a wild I never thought of that that's that's incredible yeah where would you go where would you go if you had like top three spots to go that are like obscure you know what something else on Kazakhstan so we were interviewing for the episode that we did there it was about the nuclear testing site um we interviewed some of the people that participated in that were around serving during that time and I remember it just hit me the reaction of one of them when I asked about UFOs was so like shut down firm no like as if felt like immediately like oh that's a that's an order that you had a long time ago that you immediately kind of like fell back into and you were like completely shut down the the topic because one of the people that I talked to was one of the people responsible for dismantling the last nuke out of the out of the Soviet Union whoa out of Kazakhstan at least what a job yeah yeah yeah I highly recommend that also the episode if feel like good good intersection point with with the audience yeah I mean I'm gonna check it out that's wild where would you say where are two other countries that you would like to investigate that are obscure that are not like super you know well known um I would like to go to where some of the tribes that have lore around African tribes African yeah that have lore around um aliens or yep or beings yeah there's a there's reptilian yeah there's ant whispers of like yeah the ant people yeah there's like the reptilian stuff too about you know there's also isn't a where was where's the tribe where was the this the the country that had the like the ark of the covenant was that Ethiopia yeah yeah there's some stuff there as well um and then the other one is just because I'm curious I'm you know Egyptian born and raised Egypt I have not heard any stories out of Egypt and I but that feels odd like I think it's true I think I think there's something there I also maybe again it's a it's a bit of a tangent but I do think that the true history of Egypt is very much connected to disclosure yeah Egypt yeah yeah Egypt would be a cool place for me you know going back to my my homeland and especially now every time I go back I'm like going to a different museum to just look at the artifacts and look at what's written and what's depicted and I'm looking at everything with such a new a new light yeah and the light with what we know about or the little that we know about nature of reality or or you know potentially ancient civilizations open times of open contact maybe that allowed us to potentially have the technology to be able to build these things that today we don't even know how they you know how they did it I feel like yeah there's a like I've always had a connection to the pyramids since I was a kid like a big part of my story with the S-theory is connected to the pyramid of course yeah an attempt to climb the pyramid when I was 19 becoming the first person to ever get a legal permission to do it but then like because of corruption I get prevented and then 10 years later I you know managed to like skydive over the pyramid so the pyramid has always been a part of my story it's like I am who I am today because I grew up half an hour away from it and it was always to me that's like the sign that you can do the impossible like affected me to the to my the deepest part of my core and and I just have a feeling that it's that Egypt's history Egypt's true ancient history is connected to the true nature of reality and way more than we way more than we think yeah I agree with that I think a lot of people would agree with that too in what way that's to be determined yeah in what way that's I think it's just in the way where we've already lived the chapter where open contact wasn't yes and it's not what you think and it's not what you think yeah it's not like maybe not so nuts and bolts you know I think a lot of that is like astral traveling exactly yeah obviously the use of like psychedelics too psychedelics vibration chambers chambers, meditation chambers, like things like that. I think, yeah. definitely they were onto something and, and it was working. Um, it was working a lot more than, you know, whatever came after them. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and for me, what I always found odd is just the, you know, the natural life cycle of a civilization. You kind of, you go like this, you start from somewhere, you get really good and something happens at your peak. And then you kind of, the downfall happens with ancient Egyptian civilization. It's, it's weird. It's kind of starts at the top with the most impressive things being presented. And then throughout time, it just kind of, yeah, it almost seems like they discovered that first one. Yeah. And then they try to replicate it. And weird, exactly. Weirdly too, you look at the, the artifacts of the families that come later and they just feel like copies of. Yeah. Replica is like cheap replica. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, there's, um, it's, it seems like it's, and, and that's not above us or beneath us rather to discover something and build on top of it. We've done that over and over and over and over again. So like if you find ruins somewhere, you say, ah, that's a good foundation. We can build on that. That's been done throughout history. Yeah. So, you know, wouldn't put it past Egyptians, uh, discovering ancient Egyptian stuff, you know, or ancient Egyptians discovering ancient, ancient Egyptians and being like, Hey, yeah, we can use that. Let's build on that for sure. So, yeah, I just, um, yeah, between, you know, some of these African tribes, which by the way, I really liked that point. And then a book encounters the most recent one, which is the fact that we seek this, um, we look, we look at disclosure with a very Western perspective as if it hasn't happened for indigenous people in other places. It's like very, you know, single perspective only here. No, it needs to happen within these parameters of, you know, getting certain evidence and it being within the scientific framework reviewed. Yeah. So that we can like deem it true, but no people have been on earth for freaking, you know, millennials and they've had their own culture and their own stories that describe these things. And I just want to interact more. I think I just, I'm so after all these years in the U S I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do this. I'm not going to be able to do this. And, you know, spending a couple looking at all these whistleblowers and meeting people, I'm just so tired and done with, with that part of disclosure. Yeah. I re I want to be out taking Mario woods. I don't think you're alone. I want to be going to, you know, Norway and Sweden with Jesse to like, you know, chase stories there. And like that I feel is, is the, is the path to true disclosure. Definitely. And it's so empowering. And it's like, that's why I get so freaking excited whenever you don't, you or Jesse put out something that just feels, truly, you know, groundbreaking and, and just like moving the needle for so much. Cause I always think always, and maybe now that I know the demographic of the audience, maybe I'll think of it less, but I always think of just like, there's some PhD candidate that was watching this. Cause I've, we've had that during the public hearing with Grush. Sure. Like this, you know, yesterday subscriber that came, she was a PhD in physics and I could just see it live happening in front of me. I could see her worldview changing and potentially maybe even her thesis would shift because, because Dave has just opened up her mind towards something. And I always think about the chain reaction effect that we will never get to know. You will never get to know who's the person that is watching that maybe we'll go to their lab and do an experiment based on just something that you on the, in, on the go, you said not thinking anything, anything of it. And maybe that will create some sort of breakthrough that you will never get to know that you're the link to it. So to me, that's at the core of, of, of the, of the S theories message of, of impact is to activate that chain reaction effect. Because when you do something that is from, you know, the most authentic part of you, because you're curious or because you, you know, you, you want to explore something that, that has the power in moving something in this, someone else in the same way that gets them to do that in their own life. It's a playful energy. Yeah. And I, uh, so yeah, I always think about just like this path and these conversations. Creating a chain reaction that we may never be able to track, but it's 100% is the path to this next paradigm shift and to, you know, the awakening that I believe that we're going through right now. So man, keep, keep up the good work. And, and I, um, you know, we'll be here as, as your biggest, you know, fan you and you and Jesse and anything I can ever do to support the, the, the mission and, and help grow it bigger. I'm, I'm always here for it. And I, I really look forward to just like our collaboration on, on, um, on what's next. And however, whatever way I decide to pursue this calling of, you know, using my skillset to, to create these access points for people to get to know about the phenomenon and get to know about, about disclosure and, and go through their own journey to get there. Yeah. I, I really look forward to, I can tell man, you're radiating. It's going to be fun to watch. And there's nothing like all my friends will, will say that it is a topic that as soon as I speak about, it just comes to me. Like I have a friend, one of my best friends, Kate just told me whenever you speak, I could just, I almost visualize every chakra in you just fully alive because you're speaking from like every part of you and I, and I feel it. And I, and I, you know, I could be in the worst mood and the, you know, in a, in a so tired, I don't even want to like talk anymore. And as soon as the subject comes on, I just feel a fire inside of me. And I, uh, and yeah, I, I, I look forward to being able to harness that more into, into this call against this mission. Stoked, stoked for you. Likewise, as some of, you know, and if you don't, uh, becoming a member here or an intern, as we call them, whether it's on Patreon or YouTube, you get access to a whole bunch of cool things. And one of those cool things is the potential to ask our amazing guests, uh, a question that you might have. And so we're bringing that up right now. So let's go with the first one. Whoa. Which is the least known, but most credible alien encounter story you've heard by not quite human. Not quite human is his name. Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. Great question. Honestly, the Berkshires, which is the story of how I got into, into the whole topic. Usually when I mention it to, to people, even in the subject, they, they haven't heard much about it. And it's pretty historically relevant because it was the first case to be deemed historically accurate. Historically true. Historically true. Um, and, and you've got different people in different towns that haven't met each other, um, that have had the same experience, seen the same craft slash crafts, because it was one big saucer and then a bunch of orbs. And they met each other. Yeah. And then they, some of them remember seeing the other kids on top of the craft. Um, yeah, that's a good one. So yeah, I would say, you know, I don't hear about it in, in a lot, like there, it's not one of the famous cases, but I think it deserves a lot more attention just because of, uh, of, of the amount of people that have had the experience of, of, you know, the interest of, of even the UN in it after. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great one. And, uh, you know, Northeastern United States is a bit of a hotspot for all those. You have, uh, you know, obviously the Betty and Barney Hill incident, you have the incident at Exeter, which is also New Hampshire. So many, so many, so many cases. Um, I'm thinking Linda Cortile, you know, the Manhattan abduction, Whitley Streber's happened there. Like it's such a hotspot for alien abduction. Um, but yeah, that's, that's a great one. And to be, to be frank, like last night you, you hit me with this and I was like, you started talking about this and I was like, you know, somebody sent me a message about this. And it's the only screen that's open on my, on my, it's so wild that you mentioned this because I'm looking into this right now for a possible, you know, investigation read through. And I had no idea, you know, self-admittedly that you had made that video. And I don't know how, cause I saw the Grush video and I just don't know how it flew over my head. And I thought, man, how weird that I didn't, and until you mentioned, and then I also have it on my computer and I was like, there's, maybe I wasn't meant to be fully briefed on that. So last night, like after we, I watched your entire video. I got, yeah, I had to. Oh, I'll have to, I'll easily connect you with Tom Reed if you want to talk to him. Yeah. Melanie, um, could be, could be a good, good person. Yeah, that could be interesting for sure. Yeah, definitely. But you guys did such a great job on that. You know, you covered a lot of the angles. All right, we'll go to the next one here. This is a really great question from Hex. If you could visit an event in history as part of your seeking discomfort philosophy, what would it be? The building of the pyramid. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a popular answer for that, for time traveling. A lot of people, yeah, I want to be a fly on the wall for that. Yeah. You know, well, you know, it'd be so fun. It'd be so funny if like you get there and you're like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And they're just like this crazy pulley system. You're like, yeah. So that or like the operation control room at the Roswell crash or whatever first crash happened in the U.S. Yeah. The control room. Like, like I want to see like the freak out. Wow. So not even on the ground, boots on the ground, like where the crash is. No, I think it would be more interesting to see. Because I'm more interested in the response. I believe what people say happened there, that I'm less curious about what actually happened because I feel like we're pretty close to knowing, but I'm really curious to know what made them decide to go to this course that they've gone and know everything that followed after. Because I really think it probably defines so much. I mean, the CIA and the Air Force were created right after Roswell. It feels like it was a pretty monumental moment in U.S. history that I feel like it'd be pretty- Yeah, no, that's a great answer. Mine would have been Aztec. Ooh. Yeah, 16 bodies, an intact craft, two weeks to pull that craft out through where they pulled it because of the winching system and the sand and stuff. They had to like pour these little slabs for the winch system, which are still there. Wow. Like all the trees are missing in that area. Yeah, you've gone, you've seen. I was boots on the ground. Yeah. With all the, it is wildly convincing. Just the terrain. Yeah. You know, and I'm going to let, I don't want to give away too much because, you know, Jesse's project, it's an incredible, I know that UAP Gerb did a whole deep dive on it, but, you know, with respect to Jesse's work, I think that's going to be the best thing on his channel. Maybe I'm biased because, you know, I helped direct it, but the story is, you know, and it's funny, I spoke to Suzanne, Suzanne Ramsey yesterday who, you know, Scott and Suzanne, they wrote some of the more, you know, definitive work other than Will Steinman on that crash. And they spent a lot of their own money. Oh my God. Yeah. Over half a million. Over half a million dollars. Yeah. Throughout their, you know, 30 years or whatever it was of investigation. But yeah, that would have been mine. I can't wait for that video to be out. Yeah, same. Yeah, so much. I know some of the things coming on your channel. I know some of the things coming on Jesse's channel. It is going to be awesome. It's going to be a wild winter slash fall. Yeah, 2026 is looking pretty nice. How has your philosophy of seeking discomfort evolved over time by Tess? How has it evolved over time? So where it started to where it is now, what does seeking discomfort mean for you then and what does it mean for you now? Has it stayed consistent? It has stayed consistent. I think I'm just more careful with, uh, not pushing out of my comfort zone into the panic zone. Um, there's like a good buffer area where you're not, where, where a lot of, um, is it think of it as like the optimal zone of, of, of having high stress, but not high stress enough that you burn out. Um, it's actually has a scientific name. I just forget like someone in 1902 came up with a theory for that sweet spot of. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. Um, and. Have you guys ever talked about that? No, but it's going to be in a book. That is coming, it's coming out. Um, which by the way, you can think of it also in the, in the context of exercise. Like if you, if you work out so hard that you, you know, you, you work out to tear your muscles in a way, micro tears, and that's how growth happens. But if you tear it so much, then you're simply just damaging it, damaging your body. So I think learning the extent of discomfort where you're not in survival has been probably one of the biggest, uh, like growing up elements of, um, that have, that have, that have, you know, allowed the philosophy of scenes come from me personally to, to evolve. Um, and then I love that. Yeah. Cause it's cause it is, I think young, you're just fucking full send, just like out of your comfort zone. No, uh, you know, you're not really, you're not thinking about the seek discomfort, not dissociation. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you're not thinking about what you, the time that it takes to process an experience or, or, or the impact that, you know, going so hard through an experience will, will take on you, will take on you. So would you, would you say you're more aware of the benefits of seeking discomfort now than you were before? Like the mission stayed the same, but now you're like more, more conscious of all the individual lessons that you're picking up through these. Like you've, you've appreciated seeking discomfort more. Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And also showed me where I haven't sought discomfort. Where you missed it. Where I missed it. So, you know, for me, I feel like, a big area where I'm, where I missed it has been the discipline that some, you know, the, the self-care habits, habits take, whether that's, you know, exercise or eating well or mindfulness, or just feel like I was always kind of like on the go. Didn't really prioritize that before. It took me a while, you know, it took me a, training for this marathon is the first thing that I've ever trained for in my entire life. I like have a habit to show up more for like the big moments and do it well and do it, do it comfortably, but don't really show up for like the prep work. You know, I kind of fall short, fall short in that. And I think seeking discomfort for me now is realizing that, oh, saying that I'm just good at like, you know, the, the big moments is just a cop-out from, you know, fully putting the effort that it takes to prep for something, which is a risk because you're, you're raising the stakes. Now you've put time and effort into something. So I think, yeah, for me, it's a, I think seek discomfort has been a, like a self-updating philosophy. You can't really get to the bottom and be like, I have sought all the discomfort that I, that I can see. I've sought a lot of like intellectual discomfort in my life, spiritual and being able to like define how I want to live and what values and, and what is it, my, what, what is my relationship to God? What is God to me? All these things. But as I said, not so much in like the physical, physicality of, you know, of discomfort, of pushing, pushing my body. That's great. Yeah. So there, there has been an evolution. For sure. But it's, it's. Becoming more selective. Right. With it. Well, it's almost like you, it's, it's interesting. It's like any, anything else, you know, with mastery. Yeah. Whether it's, you know, learning sleight of hand or learning how to be a comedian or all that. It takes practice. It takes mastery and seeking discomfort. I don't think is, is, you know, I think it falls into that category as well. It's a skill. Yeah. And it's a talent that you can excel at. Sure. You can do at any point. Anybody can throw a basketball through a hoop, but you know, as you get better at it, you learn to appreciate it more. Yeah. The art in it, the, the, your own arc within it, like all of these, you know, fun things to appreciate. Exactly. Lastly, we got a, we got a cool question here for the last one here. lessons by jesse michaels when are you starting your ufo earth embassy channel and fulfilling your destiny jesse michaels well i did about two hours and 30 minutes ago i have created the the channel and i'm not sure i want to i want to say its name right now sure yeah it's fine you can keep it um but it's uh i am doing it it's happening right now um so jesse i know that he's been he's been one of the people that have been just the most supportive and you know guiding in in that process of of making that leap and and and going for it so yeah i i really i really appreciate the role that he's played and the amount of things that he's included me in the people that i've met because of him um so yeah the answer is it's already happening right now but 2026 is when it goes out to the world amar it's been amazing talking to you would you like to we'll take a quick break would you like to stick around for the for the extra chat absolutely all right i do want to ask you and maybe this is something you know i'm going to get reamed here in the comments but i do want to ask you about a few sightings you've had okay um you know and unfair to the unfair to the current audience so actually before we head out um one last one last thing you've had a few sightings yeah can you three sightings can you give us can you talk about one yeah right now i'll talk about the most recent one just because it's the one that lasted the longest i mean they're the first two are like a split second of seeing something so i always call them like a half a half siding um but the three one was in venice i saw the fastest moving object in the sky at night uh far self-illuminating not blinking with your eyes with my eyes just streaked across the sky not a shooting star i could see the i could see the object the entire time it's one that was the second time the first one was when i was at lou's house in wyoming with jesse um and jesse mentions it yeah jesse mentions that sighting before but we we both we both saw like almost the end of a green fireball shooting off the horizon up but like we caught it the very last second we we both saw this we both saw the same thing but again a split second of seeing it the last one was two months it was a month and a half ago and i was in dubai i was watching It's like a. Yeah, classic. viewing experience yeah it was yeah it was a date um and watched arrival one of my favorite movies and and the entire time i was watching i was just feeling so much and i prayed so much that something appears and then after the movie ended i was like oh let you know asked asked uh my lady to you know go on the side and like do a take a video and as i was taking a video of just kind of recording the moment she like freaks out goes what's that and then i i was looking at the phone and she's looking up but then i look up and then this object kind of like settle stops in place and it just like stays there and blinks erratically obviously dubai is like massive uh um like massive airspace so many planes landing and taking off so i'm seeing other planes in the sky i know that i'm not looking at a plane so what she sees is she sees the object dart down almost from space and then and then stay stationary and where we saw it how far off the ground far no no no yeah pretty high yeah yeah and what color light was it white white light yeah it was pulsating you said pulsating but not with uh not rhythmically like it was off rhythm and how long was this sighting uh three to four minutes whoa yeah you're sitting there staring at this thing for three to four minutes putting my finger so i can actually so i can actually tell that i'm looking at something that is like in the same place yeah um so yeah i mean no sighting that is like a physical craft during daytime and honestly i think at the beginning of my of my journey i was more obsessed with seeing i actually wish for other people like for other friends that i have and other people that maybe have a harder time with it i wish for them to see it before i even get to see something i don't feel like i'm i'm missing the you don't require that the seeing part for me to yeah i don't feel like i'm for me to be on board with this um yeah like i but first i really want it so bad i look up all the time yeah i'm always looking but just at this point i know that when it's when it's meant for me it's gonna it's gonna happen i'll give you a fun fact first of all thank you for sharing that and they appreciate it too of course before we hop into the you know the patreon extras um a fun fun little fact is that you know you mentioned these 1-800 number the 1-800 calls that i get yeah i've compiled because i do catalog them as well and i have a bit of a database there um i'm a bit you know when it comes to this stuff i'm like i like doing that i can tell yeah the archiving yeah archiving and um but i do have a list ongoing of people who whose story starts with i was having a smoke dude i have like 50 that is an occurrence um and i i think it has to i think like my personal own like view of the psychology of that is that you are finally looking up because when else would you just be standing outside looking up yeah other than having a smoke yeah and so so many people are i was just lighting a smoke yeah and then all of a sudden this thing and yeah like yeah exactly looking up yeah yeah and so it's just one of those things where like and that's why if you you know if you don't know me i look insane but every time i get out of my car i'm like i'm gonna be like i'm gonna be like i'm gonna be like i usually stop and i look up for like 10 seconds and then anytime i'm outside if i as soon as i go outside i scan and because that's where you're gonna see yeah yeah right yeah and and it just goes to show you people having a dart smoking a cigarette smoking a joint whatever it is they're seeing stuff yeah and they're not even looking up that often yeah yeah yeah so you know get out there look up all right great final message for this absolutely guys go follow uh amara's journey go follow yes theory go follow the future project that he's got going on i'll leave all the links below thank you again amara and don't go anywhere if you want to join memberships or patreon just click the join button below and you can be part of the extra conversation that we're about to have thank you and we'll see you on the next one much love you