THE MAN BEHIND Collin Morikawa's INSANE Pebble Beach WIN! | Rough Cut Golf Podcast 165

[Music] Hello and welcome down to another episode of The Rock Could Golf Podcast where you join us in sunny Manchester but not for very long because you and I are about to jet off on a magical mystery tour over to Pinehurst where we're going to be talking to Rick Cessin House and he is Colin Morick-Kowers performance coach and if you've been listening or watching or staying tuned to the golf events over the past 24 hours you will know that Colin Morick-Kow has won at Pebble Beach so we're going to be delving into that first of all big shout out to our members we have a membership open on this YouTube channel which you can go down and click a link and find out more about it if you want if you have joined as a member so far thank you very much it is very appreciated Your names are scrolling right now. Down there somewhere yeah. And we have that many they're going to be scrolling forever. For days. Yeah. So just loop them just change the life. 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So going to. Shall we talk a little bit about Colin Morricow before we get to Rick. Yes he is a man. He is a golfing man. So first of all I just want to speak about the absolute amazing timing. So we thank you Colin. We spoke to again the YouTube. Is it real thing? Does it count? If you haven't released the video. Yeah, absolutely. So I back in the back in the day we spoke about this very briefly and members video. We used to film with tall pros and pretty much straight after they won an event. So in this case we actually filmed with the coach of a player who's not won in. 847 days and then we were talking at the weekend about it be good. If Colin wins this week and we can release this podcast on Tuesday. Well, well, thanks Colin. Thank you Colin. I mean he has not been playing well for a few years now. Spurts of good form. But he's just not been. He's not been great. And a lot of the things which have been holding him back. Seemed to have kind of corrected themselves this week and his biggest strength is obviously his approach. Play as I am player. Obviously if you know about Colin, his I am plays absolutely fantastic. He's been playing 6.46 strokes on a approach which means he was just able to win it really close. And a pair will be it if you're not watching the video by the way. The greens are really small. I was going to say and we've just watched you attempt to hit all of the greens and they are difficult to hit. Yeah, so it's kind of one of those where if you hit a green. Depending on where you are because there are some slopes on there and they are very quick. But if you hit a green chance you're probably not going to be more than 30 foot away from the pen. And if you hit middle of the green, you probably not going to be more than 24 away from every single pen. So it's a very, very impressive round of golf. And considering where he was a couple of years ago and considering the hype around him after he kind of went out, he won two majors very, very quickly. Just kind of died away and kind of didn't really kind of live up to the level of two expectations and the hype. After all conversation with Rick and after I told him to tell Colin, he passed it on. He is back. Did you tell him to switch patterns? Was that you? I must have met. Oh, I must have met. Do you know when you get like stats and they are sometimes meaningless? Yeah. Colin Morricower switches, put her every few weeks. It just so happens that he is one this week. Because it was not putting anything on it then, no? Well, I mean, the fight he stole it from a total fellow pro. That's more of a story. Yeah, so proven in the fact that he actually was during that final round when he won, he was actually losing strokes on the greens. So he was giving strokes back to the field. But it didn't matter because the rest of his game was so claiming good. Yeah, but he did gain strokes on the final round. I saw him hold a few compulsors as well. So it's one of them where sometimes you pick up a club, especially potted at the best for this. But you pick up a potted, you have a few points left. This is the one. And you have this little hoodie moon period. Like Colin has 12 funny moons a year. It must be really nice. So I'm not going to read too much into that. But I mean, he's obviously kind of made his way back. I said not been in great form. And the interview that we had with Rick was it was really interesting. It was over a pinehurst at the golf pride kind of HQ where we filmed loads of videos for a golf pride as well. And we talk pretty in depth about kind of Colin, but also tall coaching and how you can use Rick to get the knowledge to improve your own game as well. You're going to be hearing a lot about flow code. It's a great name. What the heck in heck is that? That flow code is about basically getting yourself in the right mental state to play your best golf. OK. Oh wow. Flow code. It's a great name. It's a really great name. Rolls off the tongue, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Flow code. You can almost imagine what it is. It's a code that just gets you in the right way. Did you talk any about your own game about? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I plumb the depths of his enormous brain to try and help myself as well. Obviously, Christmas has been in between that. So I had just an excessive amount of alcohol. So I have forgotten most of the most today. So hopefully, I thought you were going to give a disclaimer on your appearance or something like. Hopefully. I look very different. Hopefully watching it back and listening back, I'll be able to gain those insights again. Yeah, which is going to be great. Yeah, I've had a quick scroll through it. There are some really good interesting stuff in there. He seems very knowledgeable. He seems also like a really nice guy, like a really cool dude as well. Yeah. No, no, just a great guy. The only thing he was struggling with was when we were doing the film for God's pride. It was freezing. And he lives in California. And I don't think he leaves that often. So he came over to Pynos with what I got over this guy was very warm weather clothing. And he was struggling. But we both were like, oh. Yeah, and this was this the same trip in which you discovered your shoulder ailment. Discovered my shirt. Yes. Yeah, you hurt your shoulder. Weird way of saying you hurt your shoulder. Yeah, that's like a Victorian would say. You've discovered your shoulder ailments. Yeah, like it's an achievement. Right, let's delve into Rick. So when we start with any player, right? And we know what are their goals, what are their motivation. Do they even have a plan for improvement? Right, so many golfers say, yeah, I want to get better this season and they have no plan. So, you know, you know, you know, you're going to have a lot of fun. you are a good player. And if you look at now the next season for you, what are some of the goals that you have that would be more like outcome based? It could be scoring, could be your handicap index, maybe you want to win a tournament? Is there anything that we can kind of measure that we can put out there? Yeah, I mean, I managed to achieve one of my kind of biggest goals I suppose this year was getting through kind of first-age open qualifying, which has been a massive mental block for literally years. So, managed to get through that, really, really happy. So, the next year, we'll be doing open qualifying, but also doing US Open qualifying. So, first goal is there is to try and get through those again, first-ages that before we tackle final. There's tournaments back at home that I really want to win, which are multi-day events, which I've always done okay in and I played quite well this year. Great first round, great openings and then kind of faded away and kind of packed my pants a little bit. So, that's kind of a goal tournament-wise and then finally I've got some kind of more tour-based invites as well. So, I really want to make the cut through those as well. So, I've got some big overarching playing goals, which is, which is good. It's exciting to be able to go down for the tournament. No, and that part motivates us, right? We're looking forward to something and all golfers hopefully have something that motivates you, whether it's a club championship or you're playing in your first member's guest or maybe you do have aspirations to play higher, higher levels. And the next question I have for you is more about performances. In order to achieve those, what parts of your game need to improve? Now, at your level, it might be point-1 strokes in short game, point-1 strokes in green and regulation or something like that. What are some of the priorities for you as it relates to your performance goals? But purely on a technical basis, my big goal really connects you as a pro-ch play and wedges. I'm normally okay around the greens, like getting up or down chipping, but pitching and I in play, I'm not getting myself near enough to the whole to convert as many birdies as I need to. And the stats kind of really show that and they've shown that for the last few years. So, that is my main kind of performance goal and I'm going through loads of like, what, loads of those are a lot of technical changes to try and make that kind of come to fruition. So I mean, the lessons in the practice that I'm doing, I'm definitely upping that in a hope that I can change what my stats say. Right. So if I can change what my stats say, I'm hoping that will then lead into achieving the goals I want to. Definitely. I think most golfers, they generally say, I don't need to be better at putting or better, but I don't think they have any metrics. I know you start and you really get an idea of what is the reality? The reality of your stats. And it's game changing, it's game changing. It's difficult, I think, with a lot of guys kind of watching this where keeping stats, you have to be consistent with it and a lot of people might just like one chance to play the weekend, they just want to go out and enjoy themselves. Yeah, their goal might just be to break 100 or break 90 or something like that, but keeping stats makes it so much easier to actually understand where the issues are. Exactly. Once you have that plan in place, is that a performance goal might be to hit 60% of your fairways and you've only been hitting 50% or greens in regulation, you're going to hit eight instead of six. But to your point now is when we have identified and approach at is crucial, we know what are we going to do to improve that? And I look at everything from technique, which we'll talk about to how somebody practices, to even how somebody makes decisions about club choice and target lines and stuff like that, could affect how many greens you hit, right? And so you mentioned technique and a lot of people have obsessed with, they got to change their swings, but what specifically are you changing to bring that dispersion closer? So it all, like dispersion wise, I'm actually not too bad. It's strength actually getting pressure on the ball with my mind stick. And like technically, I've had a few things within my swing, which have been there for a few years really, and I've improved them bits, but then it kind of comes back and it goes away. And like this winter, I'm very much just focused on trying to get it as nailed as possible. And that's where all my kind of technical practice comes in. And it's like backswing changes and then kind of impact changes. So it's a lot. There's a lot to kind of get through in a short space of time because as soon as like my first thing, first comes the end of the February. So as soon as it gets to that point, I want to be done with that technique, all right, focused on the back. So in order to change, yeah, changes in the mechanics, you're going to have to put conscious effort in it. It sounds like you already have a game planned with again, backswing and downswing and again, a lot of players out there, they kind of what they want, but they honestly don't know the cause and effect. And then they really don't know how to make the change and then to do enough repetitions to make the change. So it is now unconscious when you go play. Is there any key things when you are practicing that is helpful for you and would help be helpful for people who are watching out there to how to make those changes? Cause you're already a really good player and you're trying to find night, right? Yeah, I think certainly for me, I'm relatively lucky where I have kind of studio where I can hit, I've got data, I've got launch monitors, I've got cameras. So I can have real instant feedback as far as like what I'm feeling to what's happening in reality and you know, people might not have access to the same set of that I do, but pretty much everyone now has a phone. You can get a tripod for a couple of quid. You can get those things set up and certainly when I was coaching and kind of what I'm doing now in practice, I'm trying really hard not just to kind of hit those, just going hit balls. I'm trying to assess the success of the shots to actually show me if I'm performing how I want to. Exactly. So when I'm going to practice at the moment, I've got little games that I play on the SIM is really good because I can just put a course on there so I can actually simulate a little bit more about real life situation. And then I can say, well, this feels great, I can check the cameras, it looks great, but then what's the actual result and what's coming out. And then I can assess and I can kind of reevaluate where I'm at with it and I'm just trying to make a much more of a conscious effort to do that and not just hit balls, hit balls, hit balls. So I'm going to focus then it requires feedback and then adjustment and then feedback and adjustment. Instead of, I'm going to, you know, this didn't work, I'm going to try five different things and then at the end of the hour, you haven't achieved anything other than more confusion. I think feedback for me, feedback is key and it's also something which is easy to not do when you go to a driving range. So I think if you manage to carve out the time and let's say you don't have a lot of time, you know you need to practice to get better to achieve those goals and you get to the range. I think many golfers feel at that point while I'm working and I'm doing what I need to, whereas in fact you might go to a range session spend an hour and half bashing balls and not really change anything, not improve and then be confused about when you're on the golf course, why things aren't getting better. Correct. So, you know, we will make these mechanical changes, of course, in hopes to make better contact and hit more greens, get it closer, more scoring opportunities. I'm obsessed with the mental side of the game, right? Because we work on our technique and can we now carry it out there? When you think about all the tournaments you've played in and such, how much of the mental game do you think comes into play of your performance? This year has been like a revelation really as far as like mental game goes because I always knew that it was a weakness but again it's kind of like having those tools. I want you to need to, what do I need to do? And fortunately with the videos that I make I do get access to really good coaches, obviously I speak to you today. This is not something that a lot of people will have the opportunity to do. So I've got the ability to pick the brain to some of the best in the world. And this year it really became apparent that setting the goals was good but I was so focused on the actual outcome of everything that I was forgetting to go through the process and then trusted that was going to work and really trying to force through what I wanted. So I was putting such a massive high level of expectation on myself that when I came to the comp I was so nervous, I was like anxious, I just, I wasn't enjoying being there. So this year was been a big switch of just simply having a goal, working towards it but then when I'm at an event just trying to let it happen and not putting a big expectation on myself when I'm there. I mean that's crucial as you know and I think every even average player they expect, I expect to break 85, I expect and they have these expectations and yet they don't have the processes that would help support them achieving that. So we want to prepare and stuff. I always ask people about what is the mental game that we're training in the first place. So how would you kind of define those skills? What is the mental game that we're actually training? It's a tough question, isn't it? It is, that's why people say, oh it's important. But when I ask people if they train it the answer is usually no because they're not actually quite clear what it is, what are they actually training? Well how to practice. Exactly, how to practice. And I also think that it's potentially the hardest thing to practice because it's easy, it's easy to go to a range in hitballs. That's an easy thing to do. But to think about what you're doing and to try and understand how you go about the mental game, because for me the mental game really boils down to understanding how you thinking and to recognise certain aspects that are going to be detrimental. There are so many things that people do on the golf course. that I do on the golf course still and I'm getting better at it. That catch myself. And I'm like, "Oh, what, like, like, why have you just gone down that kind of rabbit hole?" And you're dead before you know it. Totally. And I think that's for me is the first step is just being able to recognise when some things go in wrong. That's the biggest, kind of, crucial thing for me. I've even forgot what the question was now. Well, no, I think I went down a rabbit hole though. No, but you said about thinking, which is like when I look at what is the mental game. Yeah. And we get different, and we get thinking, we get emotions, and regulating our emotions. Confidence, right? Those are some different aspects. And I look at it as performance is state dependent. What's state are you in when you're swinging in a golf club? Am I in one of distracted, doubt, tension, anxiety? Good luck. Yesterday was horror. Or worse. You're on the tool to exit. Horror. And then there's days when we're focused and confident and calm and confident, right? And we're like, "Oh, I like this." See, to me, that's a trainable skill. But most people, they'll get into the state after they're playing a few holes. Like, they've got it all, I feel great. Or, "I've got it, I don't have it today, right?" And they're fluctuating. You mentioned thinking. So to me, it does start with thought patterns of what am I focusing on in that moment? And part of the process is, and I know we're going to cover this more in detail, is what should that pre-shot routine look like? How am I going to gather information? What should I be focusing on? How do I make proper decisions based on your skill sets? Not on what worries hitting. What are you hitting, right? And then do you, I call it like a threat versus challenge? Do you look at the shot as a threat? Like, "Oh, no, I hate the shot, right? And that puts us in a stress response, more a challenge." Like, "Man, I can't wait to hit the shot." Yeah. Take on that opportunity, right? Opportunity is the word I've been trying to use so much more this year. Because that's the thing, you insert situations where like, "Oh, this is, this cut, this isn't good. This can't be good." And I was playing a match the other day and I was in a terrible, completely short-sighted, no chance of really getting up and down. And I was going over to it, cameras were on, I was like, "This is just not going to be this is going to be disaster." But then I was like, "You know what? No, this is just a really good opportunity to play a fantastic shot." And automatically just thinking more like that allowed me to see what I had to do easier. So rather than looking at what could go wrong, I was like, "Well, how can it go right?" And it's not an easy thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do because I think most people, most golfers, definitely, they're prone to think into that negative mindset rather than the positive mindset. But you caught yourself that this is a good and then you went now to solution though. Most people stay in the problem. Yeah. And then you said, "Well, there's still a solution to this and we shift a mindset, right? How do we view it?" So yes, it's what we're thinking about, but how we're thinking about it changes our emotions, right? And our emotions are both before and after and you shifted it, like, "Oh, let's take this challenge on," or maybe there's a competitive side of you and your focus actually gets streaks in a good way, right? The other part of this is, is what emotional state are you at when you play your best golf? And not many people know that or think about that. They go, "I don't know, happy?" And they go, "Well, is it really happy? Is it something else?" I mean, when you're playing your best, how would you articulate that to somebody? I feel blank or would, you know? Yeah, it's more probably peaceful. There's a comp this year where PJ Champs, not the PJ Champs, but the PJ Champs, does make a lot of sense. PJ is in the Great Britain Island PJ. Cool. Thanks for watching. And in the third round there, made the cut, it kind of scraped through, shot a 65, I think, in the third round. And it was just an incredibly good back-knife, but I felt inevitable, is the word I was like thinking. How cool. I was like, "I'm going to birdie this whole." And it just felt like I know that I'm going to birdie it. And I just felt it was so relaxing. It was just like, I'm, it's so, it's a hard kind of state, I suppose, to get into. And it's like, I know what are the you do and, you know, guys who work on the side, the logical side of golf, to try and access that state. I think in my mind, and I'm trying to change it a lot, would be I have to play good golf to then get into that state, rather than trying to figure out ways to get into that state before we apply golf 100%. And it's like trying to flip that around a little bit. Yeah, I always like it, you know, if I can identify the optimal state for you and reverse engineer from that, to me as a, a performance coach that's helpful, right? A golf swing, let's say you want to hit a tight draw and you know what it's going to take with your trackman numbers to do that, that there's a cause and effect. I believe the same thing with the mental game. So if peaceful is that word and for people listening, watching, maybe you have a different word, mind words, engage, I feel engaged, right? Some players that I work with feel calm, creative, excited, happy, right? These are different emotional states. But if peaceful is something that you have gotten into, I would ask when we talk about processes all the time, do you have a process to get peaceful? Not really. And that's what we want to do, right? And this is what I thought after that round, I was like, how have I, how have I just got to that point? And again, it was more, I don't really know. I don't really understand. I think I might hold like a nice putt and I think it probably felt quite nice. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm I think I'm good. I'm going to do this today. And then the very next round, it wasn't the same. We'll have to talk about that in a second. It was full on wall rather than peace. Right. Notice that. I mean, and and all golfers have experienced that, right? One day we feel like we're never going to, we're hitting the ball great. We're never going to lose it. And the other day we feel like we've never played golf before. Right? And I think back to like we talk about processes all the time is like, yes, we wouldn't have a better process and pre-sharp routine. All these things were told, but I don't even think people are asking the right questions within that. What is that process supposed to do? And part of it is to be peaceful, to be committed, to be confident to it. And if in that routine, it's not achieving that, then we may have to work on a new routine. Okay? So peaceful is an interesting one because it's a lower intensity emotion. Yeah. And some of that can be done through breathwork. Some of it can be just how we view it. Was there anything that again that last part of that round? What would this peaceful feel like in your body? And it's not that's the thing. I wouldn't say it's relaxed, but it's more just ready for what's happening. Like totally ready for the task. Being confident and being kind of alert and energized to do what you want to. Yes. But in a way which isn't, it's not fist pumping or anything like that. It's just kind of knowing that it's going to happen. Yes. And it's kind of weird. It was weird. It was fantastic. It was fantastic, but even at the time I was able to get out my own way and I was able to let it happen. But even at the time I was like, this is great. How am I doing it? I don't know. I don't understand. But I'm going to let it happen. Let's get out my own way. Yeah. And I call that flow state, optimal experience. We feel our best. We perform our best. We're focused. We're confident. We're calm. We're in control. Yeah. Right. And this game can kick us out of being out of control pretty quickly. So kind of dialing back to all players we want to get better. We have outcome goals. We have performance goals. We're now talking a little about process goals as it relates to the mental side. Is there anything when you think processes that the average player needs to improve upon? This year I got a kind of crazy person. So I've said to myself like throughout the outcomes this year and throughout the videos that we've done and it has helped definitely people who've watched the videos. It's like about trusting the process. So in some respect and this is where you're going to be able to tell me what I've been doing wrong and what guys are doing wrong at home. But for me the process is important but for me the process was more about just doing it consistently. Yes. So there's stuff in there which I know that it's not perfect and there's definitely things I can prove upon. But I was definitely playing my best golf when I was like you know what this is what my process is and I'm just going to stick to it and it allowed me to be a bit more present. Oh I love that. Yeah. But it's that's always been the hardest thing for me. Sure. I was reading in like and I talked to talk to golfers as well. Like the amount of time that certainly within your own your own brain you spend most of the time thinking about things which have happened or thinking about things which are about to have totally. So you only actually exist in the present in a really small window and often that that window when you're on the golf course can close. It's really hard to be there. And that was like it was a big revelation about like if you do get into a process and you understand and you try and figure out how to play shots like that chip on the other day I was there and I was kind of yes I was trying to figure it all out and it was it was good. It's hard. You know what I mean think about it life being in the present moment. We always say one shot at a time and all these clichés but there's truth to that. How do I train myself to be here right now instead of, I'm still thinking about the three put I hit two holes ago, I can't believe I did that Rick and then oh there's a reachable par five coming up that I can get there and two and I wonder where everybody else is in the tournament. It's irrelevant to this moment and I think the best of the best fine ways to filter that out and then for those 30 or 45 seconds in that process to be able to go I'm here right now. I'm solving this problem. I can't wait to the shot and I think there's many things that can funnel that attention and part of it is like breath work and visualization and centering techniques and practice swings. When you think about your best routine because I think there's each process could be different depending on the player. Do you use any kind of tools and techniques like breathing or visualization or practice swings that would help you stay in that present moment? That's work. No. It's something I've thought about and it's something that I've looked at and I've talked to people about and I don't really know what to do apart from breathing deeply. I mean yeah, alright but I don't really know like when I started to go into it I got a bit lost. I didn't really think about this different ways to breathe and different types of breathing and how it kind of changes your mental state but I don't really know about that. The way I got into things the process wise was I used to just tap my club on the ground and I'd gone through my routine as far as what I wanted to hit the shot, conditions, wind, yard and things like that but at the point I'm here in my shot I'm just tapping my club on the ground to try and bring myself back to the present and when I wasn't able to do it I just like an absolute psychopath just pounding the ground before the ball. You're going to get checked on pizza. It's made to divert a little bit. It's happening it. Worms within a three-hour radius are all coming up. I think it's raining. So that's the way I was trying to like pull myself into the present and that's just something I found that was kind of working for me. But again, if that's useful I don't know. It can be useful but I look at there's many different things that can bring your attention to the present moment. I'm looking at and the average player out there they're not even present when they're making decisions on their club choice by the way. So I start how do I get in the present moment when I step out of the cart or when I put my bag down to me that's the start of let's be here. And I know we're going to do some content on a pre-shot routines on that. But being in the present moment to me is it can be what we call cognitive what am I thinking about right now. If you had a caddy and say hey, I'm the caddy, hey Pete, we got wind off the left and you have there's a carry 142 over that left bunker. I'm looking at it. I'm processing it. I'm telling you information. You go oh yeah there is wind off the left. You be in the present moment right. So there's cognitive things that we can do through questions and self-talk and processing information right. The other one like we talked about breath work is if I had somebody just inhale through their nose at a three count, exhale through their mouth at a three count at least for those six seconds they are present within the breath. And there's different ratios which we're not going to get too much into this. But if I'm just focusing on breath I'm not focusing on the three putte I just had. I'm not. I'm giving myself a time out to say where am I right now. And then visualization which I want to go a little bit deeper with you is seeing success before it happens is great. Most people are visualizing what they don't want so they have a lot of conflict in their brain. I don't want to go here. I kind of want to go here. I'm not sure. And then we have tactile right. We talk about feel right. Well I've got the grip right. The feel of the grip and do you do a practice swing the feel the shot you're going to hit beforehand. You're getting in the present moment. So the tactile part the feeling part. There's a lot of things we can tap into even auditory. Like smooth swing, fluid swing, one, two, three. These are all things that can bring us to the present moment but most people are aware enough that they're distracted and then it's too late. And so when you think about if I would like to talk a little bit about visualization do you use visualization at all in your processes. Yes but it's not a strength. When I start to visualise and train sea shots I can do it to an extent but I almost don't know. I think a lot of people probably understand this like visualising a shot. It's like how do you visualise that and how do you actually see the ball going and for a while because something when I was editing a lot more of my videos and I was doing like shot tracers stuff. I was trying to use that a bit more so I was behind the ball and I was trying to see my shot tracers but became probably a little bit disperited when it wasn't working. Those shot tracers were broken. So you come on. So then I went away from that and probably just more of it. It's a little bit vague now I think. I can get in the present a little bit better and I'm kind of like I can kind of see what I want to do but I'm not in it. I'm not in there. When you have like a recovery shot and I know that happens rare that you miss a fairway and you're in the trees but it's very nice. Every now and then when that happens do you find that you can actually visualise better? You got a branch in front of you, you got a bunker over here. The window helps you. Yeah definitely. One of a sudden. I think if there's a, so mostly if there's like an actual obstacle to overcome I think it's easier to figure out because you know better than me but I often think like if you face with just a blank slay it's a lot harder to think through. Correct. Which is probably why like if there's a hole that shapes left to right for a right hand it's easier to feel and visualise that thing or draw kind of vice versa. So I think having being able to do that within your mind when there's not something in the way I think is difficult. I agree. It's a blank canvas and then some people can see shot tracers in different colours. I see just this target bullseye. I have a hard time seeing the entire shot but I bullseye I'm going to go towards the bullseye. And we can have like American football we have our goalposts. I could put the goalposts out there on the fairway. I can utilize these different ways to get my mind attended to success but back to the present moment. You can put obstacles out there. I like the goalpost analogy. Yeah. I can see that. Or your favourite mate you put them out in the centre of the fairway like you want to pop them through the head right that would get your attention. They would do I'd miss. So they're safe. Maybe it's not your best mate maybe it's your enemy right. And so and then the present moment like also feel do you use practice swings in your routine to feel a shot to yeah it gets sloppy though it does get sloppy because I find I got a lot of people who like this. There's way too often where I'm like I'm over the ball and I'm like not 100% sure what I'm doing. A bit how often do you step away from a shot. Right. It's so hard to do. So actually practice swings I don't really I don't really utilise them probably the best I could. I take a couple of wiggles and a few laughs. So and again everybody's different like some people are just very visual. Especially putting me have a lot of people routines that don't even do a practice. But I would hope you're seeing the ball going the whole. Yeah I just with put in I'm trying to be and this is probably something you do with your guys a lot. I'm imagining with put in I find it so much easier to be reactive. So to like have a read right. Try and see where the ball's going. I've visualised like where it's a point where it's going to go over when it's just off the put face and then how it's going to react from there and try and see it. And certainly this year I was starting to see puts so much better. So I had to see lines and it was kind of like a weird point a few months ago in the States where I just had a round where I hold everything. But again I just I could see everything. Right. I was like I'm going to hold everything. Yeah. Just like that feeling of being inevitable and peaceful there. So I just feel it's a lot easier when I put into like see that get behind the ball and go. Sure. I was like it's so hard to do in full shots though. Yeah. I think you bring up a good point is that putting tens of you just too dimmachimal right. There's no trajectory and stuff like that. Yes you have slope on it but the ball's hopefully not getting off the ground. And then when somebody says yeah I can actually visualise that or I have people put in the morning on the morning do right and they can now see that or we put gates out there right to get that idea and then I take it a step further of chipping. Could you chip in visualise they go. Well yeah I can kind of see the ball up in the air right and then I can extract from there as way. But when we talk about the processes and we want our main goal to be in the present moment we've just talked about there's different ways we can do that. But you're a really good player and you're still trying to find what process works best for you. Right. I think the average player has not much of a process at all and because they're so focused on what they don't want and they look at the shot as a threat and then they get stressed and they get tight and then they hit a poor shot and then they blame their swing but they weren't in the right state to begin with. Right. So when we talk about these now process, We've talked about your outcome goals, performance goals, process goals. What I'm hearing from you is to keep refining those routines for you to be a little more peaceful, a little bit more. I was also here kind of the word trusting and coming in there. I could trust myself. To me that is a skill. Most people think the mental game is just, yeah, I'll be that if I play well. Exactly. No, no, no, no. We want to be in the state to give ourselves the best opportunity to play well. One other area I want to talk about is I would call them flow blockers or interferences. For you, what interferes with you getting into that peaceful state, that trusting state? Definitely kind of anxiety and being anxious. That's, it's always been an issue like in competitions. Again, this year it's been better. I've tried to figure out a few things, but it's always the nerves and the anxiety of hitting certain shots and silly and bigger comms and stuff. Which is wild. I have been better this year and I've been trying to tell myself that it's very much just, it is a mental state. There's nothing that can happen here. You're not fighting for life and death out here on the 14th. For whatever reason my brain feels like it's on fire at times. I think I've managed to sell that down, but that's always been the biggest obstacle for me. To me, anxiety is about future driven, about what could go wrong. Right? So if a threat, I don't want to play, I don't want to play poorly, I don't want to do this run. We mentioned a little bit earlier, but instead of looking at as a threat, we look at as a challenge or opportunity. We step up to that. It's interesting that our mind will race and then it will create an emotional response. I asked players all the time, is being nervous, good or bad for golf? I would say it's good, but that's me thinking that because I know that if I don't think that it's going to be bad. So it would be, I think it's just that for me it's accepting it. So in an absolutely ideal world, wouldn't it be nervous to just go out there and just play carefree and it'd be great, but the reality is you're going to be nervous and you have to be willing to accept that. And that's what I try to do. And that's what I try and teach people to do as well. If they ever have to ask the question is the fact that you're going to get nervous, so you've got a choice of you can use it or you can let it drag you down. Yeah, nervous is an interesting one and you said the key thing, it's your interpretation of it. My body, my heart racing, my stomach churning a little bit, how do I make it a define that? And I can define it nervousness as, oh no, don't mess up, anxiety, which now fear kicks in or all the same things happening. I'm excited. This is cool. I signed up for this. I can't wait to hit the shot. Now, the physiological system is similar, but now your mind is interpreting it a different way and then you can use it to help you focus. But the other way is completely going to make us go sideways. Yeah. So that's back to mindset and being aware that your nervous is fine. But now how are you going to funnel it is going to be important because a lot of people say, well, you need a lot of experience and then you won't be nervous. I said, yeah, but if you keep hitting poor shots when you're nervous, what are you really learning? Right? But if I learn that I can now instead of being fearful, I could take it as a challenge, I can do some smooth breathing, I can visualize success. You're at least moving in the right direction as you go and then you have something to now work on as you go. We talk a little bit about feel a lot, right? And feel is crucial, right? And obviously we're here at Golf Pride and it starts with feel. How does it end? How do you define feel? I know it's kind of a. Yeah, I mean, you just, for me, certainly in the past, it's just hands. Feel you ultimately interpret that as what you're feeling within your hands. And if it feels good in your hands and it feels like you can play a shot, then it will breathe confidence when, in fact, feel is probably a lot more overarching than that. It probably starts from the brain down to the hands of the hands of the brain. We'll swim around the middle. Yeah, it could be, right? And so when you put your hands on that club, you're getting sensory, right? You're getting that feedback. Your brain can now go. Does that feel good or bad, right? Yeah, can give it very general terms, good or bad. And so when somebody can hit a lot of different golf shots like you can, feel is crucial, right? You want to hit a cut, you want to hit a low draw, you want. I don't want to speak for you, but I'm assuming a lot of it's with the hands. Correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now when you're feeling it, and if it's not feeling good, what do you do about that? I like that panic. Okay, that's one choice, everybody. We do have other options there. Go home, I think. So that is true. But if we get lost in that, right, it's not going to go good, is it? We can choose a different shot. We can work through it, go, that didn't feel good. Well, maybe I'll open the face a little bit more. Maybe I'll cut across it more. Right? It is. Look at some other options. But I even want to spin it back further. It's like, I can have the greatest option. And I know this is the right shot, but I don't feel good. Now we have some mental processes. Right. I would say that when that happens, and I think a lot of people do this as well, is if it doesn't quite feel right and not quite comfortable, I would then kind of automatically revert back to technique and to think, well, I'm not feeling this, but then, you know, if I want to draw it, okay, well, if I start to take it more back around the inside, you know, I can start to feel the cool, a little bit more behind me. Sure. I'm going to pronate my right elbow or any, I think once I start to get down that slope, then it's really hard to pull it back. Got it? Because the worst thing I can do then is if I'm not feeling comfortable, I think about something technical and hit a good shot. That's almost the worst thing for me. Because now I'm like, okay, well, I now know I need to turn my right shoulder a little bit more. And then when I hit a back shot again, I'm going to turn my right shoulder back, okay? So what else must it be? Oh, I think I need to. Like, lift my left heel a little bit more. And then my head could show that before. Now, yeah, 12 holes in. I got 64 swing throws. An old semblance of feel that's left. You know, exactly right. We can become analytical. And instead of being in my body and being hand eye coordination, let's think about hand eye coordination, boom, to your target and then it all starts in the hands and with the grip. You know, I'm fascinated with all these different types of grips, right? And now you've experimented enough and what's the importance of the grip itself? I mean, the actual grip for you. I think it depends on if you have a technical goal in mind for me. So I've just changed my grips now to the Zad. And that's very much because it's got an align on the back of it. Now that I'm using a putty grip and I've switched to the pro only in the blue. And what it does, it has a ridge on the back and for whatever reason, that ridge, to me, it feels like it's easy to square a club face up. And again, that's just through experimentation and trying it out. And that feels best to me. But I've always used a tall velvet. That's what I've always used. And this is the first time where I've been like, you know what? What can I change? Like what actually will the grip do for me? And what will it alter within my technique? And it's kind of been a bit of a long time coming, I'd say. Because I think like most people when they think of a grip, they would think of it as a handle. And the actual technique, the actual kind of technical specifications of a golf club, they're from the shaft downwards. You know, the grip is just something that you hold onto. When it's such a, it's your only link to the club. So it has to have a level of importance. Yes. And that's what I've been kind of like really experimenting with. And I work with obviously tour players to competitive players. And when I used to coach a lot of, let's say, intermediate players, you know, like the align grip, for instance, it would be so helpful for that average player for consistency to know, oh yeah, my fingers go like this because I can feel that. It one less thing to think about. But the consistency factor that my hands are going to be in the same place every single time I think is crucial. And so back to feel. And okay, now I know my hands are there. I can trust that. And then there's the other types. And I was feeling some of the different materials. Yeah. Talk about feel, right? Or, you know, I grew up, core grips and then tour velvet. And I saw some of the new compounds I'm going, oh, this is, this is kind of cool, right? Have you experimented a little bit with kind of the different, the textures and? Yeah, I mean, I mean, for like a few years ago, I switched out to like a, it's a very, very massive kind of great Bryson's grips. Okay. So there's some issues with my wrists. And I'd heard through the brave vine that apparently really thick grips helped with that. So I did it and like kind of, my wrist kind of settled down. It was good. And I don't know if it's just a coincidence. That's a thing because there's no real data. Like you can just, very hard to tell. But then as soon as I switch back to like my standard kind of tour velvet, which I just like the feel of and uncomfortable with it, then I started to improve straight away. And I kind of wrist, wrist issues haven't gone back. And this is the first time I actually experimented with something a little bit different with the align on the back. I'm actually just feels right. Right. It feels good. It's not too soft, not too firm. Just like in the back of the hand, I can feel it in my right finger. It's just like, yeah, it's nice. - But notice how like detailed you were on that. Feel it here, feel it in the finger, feel it. And not many people are even paying attention to that, at all. And I know I'm getting educated here being at golf pride with a fitting of the way. - Yeah, yeah. - Right? - Yeah. - And the different styles and the different sizes and all those type of things. And I, you know, I need that. And you need that. And the average player needs it also. So when we look back at feel, we have the physical component of hands on grip. Okay. You can interpret that. And do you change grip pressure depending on a shot? - Not massively, no. I think, maybe if it's a plug-bomb collie now I'll grip onto it a little bit more. I will try, if it becomes apparent that I'm choking the life out of it to lessen my grip pressure. Certainly I'm putting as well. I'm almost trying to feel, if I'm struggling on the greens a little bit, I'll try and give up a little bit of control. So I'll grip it light and I'll try and be a lot more trusting in it. But different grip pressures for different shots is not something I'm massively experimented with. - Right. - Because I have some people like with the high flop shot there might be a little bit less tension versus like a bunker shot with a plug door. I'm in the rough. And there's just again, there's the refinement of what am I feeling through that? And I don't think enough people know what to do. - Yeah. - And as the round goes on they probably are holding on tighter and the stress response and a little bit more. And they're trying to control a club. Part when you were telling me about when you're aligned, it seems like when you have, you're comfortable with something, you're controlling it just enough, right? We're not trying to over-control anything. - What's your hands are on there? Do you think in terms of, I'm going back to the processes of what the hands need to do in the swing to create a shot or is it more of, you feel it other parts of your body? Like if you wanted to hit a high cut, what are you? - Yeah, I mean, I think if I want to like shape it, cut, or whatever it is, it's more of a, I think more of the face and the path and how that relates to it. And I will move the club to where I want in my hands, but it'll be kind of subconscious. I won't be, yeah, I won't be like strengthening all week and in the grip, I'll just kind of move it, set it and then I'll feel kind of where I want the club to go and then if the face in the right point is going to go. - And I think having that clear intention, right? You have a clear intention, you want to hit a cut and then you've done it for so much, is it your trust, your subconscious feels that now, I think is important. Now, average player, yes, they want to probably hit one shot halfway decent, right? But I don't think they're connecting enough of why did the ball go where it went? We know club face control is king and it starts right there. - That's right. - And when you experiment with different size grips and different textures of grips, it may affect release patterns. It may affect how we trust the shot or how much control, right? As we go, so I'm fascinated with that part of how the actual physical grip affects how I feel and how I trust in the process. Yeah, so pressure's interesting, isn't it? Is that it's self-defined. What's pressure for you is different for me than different than top player on the PGA tour. And I think for the average player, you are going to feel pressure. But to me, that's a good thing. That means it matters to you. It's important. And we want to use that as a way to focus more. Unfortunately, pressure people, they care more, they try harder and it gets in the way of that. So I think when we look at being able to perform under pressure, part of it is preparation, right? Is yes, we've worked on our golf swing, we've practiced. But with the top players, I mean, the amount of time they put into preparation, practice rounds and even just their body stretching and afterwards and going over notes and talking to Cadi and having a game plan when you go out. Now, I don't expect the average player to do three practice rounds, but you've probably played your home course enough, but do you actually have a game plan? Do you actually know what club you're going to use off different teams and what the best spot to aim at? And maybe aim at the middle of the green more than at the whole locations, right? And I think preparation is a key part of that. And it goes along with, we've talked to a pre-round routine. What can I do to get ready for that event that I may feel pressure, but on my doing 30 minutes, an hour, some players, two hours beforehand. I know that's a lot to ask. But even 30 minutes, what can you do? And I know we'll talk more about what that pre-round routine looks like. But for me, it's understanding pressure's going to happen. We're embracing that opportunity to be able to say, good, I signed up for this. I don't want to be bored out there. This is mean something. But what are the things that I can do ahead of time? Having a game plan is certainly a part of that. Even the simplest things, understanding how the weather is and are we prepared with the rain and things like that that can creep up. And then we've talked about routine already. It's like, what can be the best pre-shot routine that can help me focus on what's in my control? Because pressure is a lot about thinking about honestly, things that are out of your control. I wonder how everybody else is playing. And I don't know if I mess up here. And it's a lot of stuff that's out of your control. But the routine is to help us to stay in that moment. And we can do everything from-- we've mentioned visualization to breath work. And it's interesting, like with visualization, a lot of people say, I can't visualize. I said, well, you can. But it might not be a skill that you have right now. So I asked people to verbalize shots before they hit it. So I said, hey Pete, you've got a second shot. Oh, he's on it. Honestly, this is something which I always say it. But like-- so if you've done like coaching videos, and when I do done coaching videos, and when I talk through shots, the shot that comes out is always so much better. And I really need, I really want, when I'm getting in natural comp to talk you through, but I just don't want to look like a nutter. But do you have a caddy during this term? No. So I just be talking to myself. Well, OK. We're talking dirtily, right? But I joke with my players. I said, pretend that coach ricks on your shoulder. What's coach ricks saying? And what are you going to say back, right? And to your point is like, I may not have that skill that I can see a shot tracer. But if I said to you, hey, what's a good shot look like here? And you said, well, Rick, I'm hitting a seven iron. I'm going to aim it at that tree, and you point at it. And it's going to cut 15 feet back. And it's going to land here. The words are symbols. And so by you talking throughout, you actually created a visualization, whether you knew it or not. And it doesn't have to be this, like I said, shot tracer, but it's an intention. This is what I'm going to do. And I think that's part of it. With visualization, I'll have some people-- I've seen Jason Day up close. And he's closing his eyes a lot behind the ball because there's less stimulus. He can now see that he opens his eyes, and he goes into the shot. So some people can close their eyes to be able to see it. But I think the key part is having an intention with that. And yes, the caddies-- I work with a player that is very vocal with this caddy. And they're talking through shots. And where's the win coming from? OK, is you playing the 167, 168? And the clarity is important. A lot of players under pressure, again, go to what they don't want. And they get into steering and quickness and stuff. And so I think part of that is, again, visualization can help us get focused on what we want. And then the other thing is breath work is if I'm feeling more heart pumping, how do I regulate that? I'm not saying get back to relax. But we can use different breathing ratios. Usually we'd want to probably inhale, let's say, a three and exhale, like a six, longer exhale. If I'm anxious, my breathing patterns is short and quick. That's only building up your stress level even more, right? But you mentioned, like, we can take deeper breaths. But smooth or rhythmic breaths, a little bit longer, exhale, will help you at least ground yourself. So we have these things that are disposal. And I think the best players have experimented with them. They have practiced these things well before they even got to the first tee. And I think most people, when we talk about routine, they don't have one. And then you ask them to practice it ahead of time. And so just these little things, right? These little things. And part about-- we talked about pre-round routine. When you're at your best and when you get to that first tee, and you may be energized, you may feel pressure about your energized. Have you done anything that hour, hour and a half before that you feel helps you prepare? I always play my best if I arrive at the golf course like a decent amount of time before my tee time. So hour and a half kind of thing, which isn't always easy. Often means getting up a little bit earlier. But it's always a case that when I get there early, I'm more relaxed. I'm not as lush. Yes. But then also, if I've done my pre-round stretching and my routine, and I feel physically loose, and I feel ready, it's such a-- It's a physical routine. But it has a massive impact on how I feel about things mentally. Because I know I've done as much as I can do to prepare. And what you mentioned before about-- you know, having control over yourself and not worrying about other things like the ability to give up control over those things that you can't control. I often find that's easy to do when I'm there and when I'm prepared. 100%. It's yeah, it's kind of, it is difficult and I know a lot of people kind of watching this year, their idea of a pre-around pre-epic sprint from the car park get a bacon sandwich and then go. And if you go now there and that works, wonderful. I'm happy for you. But for most people, yeah, understanding what they can do just before they go out to play, and like correlating that to performance, which again, you need to be able to experiment with that and you need to have the time to say, okay, for this month I'm going to do this and then next month I'm going to add this in or take this away and actually see how that works. It just take time, take patience as well. And the best players, they're very regimented. I mean, they're not. They've refined it through the years, but it's, I'm going to be at the golf course at this time. I'm going to do this. I'm going to work with my physio. I'm going to get on the range this time, do my putting drills and it, but it all serves a purpose, right? And I think that's where a lot of people is like, like we said, 20 minutes. Can you get there 20 minutes ahead of time to stretch, hit 20 golf balls, hit a few drivers of what the first hole is going to be like. Imagine you're hitting the first t-shot today, take some breaths, putt, get some speed control down. And then I always talk about the intention of the mental game is how do you want to show up in that round of golf and people like, what are you talking about? I go, how do you want to be? You want to be peaceful? Do you want to be engaged? Do you want to be confident? You want to go, well, yeah, that'd be nice. I go, no, no, but do you have a plan to do that? Maybe you have to take some smooth breaths because your heart's pumping. Maybe you want to say today, you know what? My goal is to commit to every single golf shot out there. My goal is to bounce back after a poor shot. We have an intention of mental game too. I think it then takes away a little bit more from the outcome, right? We talked about expectations before. It's like, if I'm expecting like, I really got to play well today. I have to play well. That builds up more pressure instead of saying my intention is to play well today. In order to do that, I'm going to control my breathing, my decision making, my visualization. You know what? I found this on my warm-ups. If I swing at 80%, I can, I'm going to hit some good golf shots. That's more than controllables as we go there. The best players do that. The average player is concerned with what they don't want. And then they're certainly concerned about how they're going to look and embarrassment. Oh my gosh, everybody get messed up. It gets further and further away from the present moment of how they're doing. Absolutely. Do you think that with pre-round routine, the regimented style of knowing timings and what you're going to do and knowing the whole process that you're going to go through stretching, hit balls, whatever it is? Does that carry through completely into pre-shot routines and what you do on the course? Or is there like a level of flexibility there? I know we've talked a little bit about the situations on golf courses. Can change, whether it's conditions, whether whatever. Do you think there's some like core tendons within the pre-shot routine that you need to do and they need to be consistent and then some of the things can kind of like change around? Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, one quick thing with like pre-round routine is yes, it's very regimented, but you go course to course. Maybe they don't have a short game area to chip out. Maybe the driving range is close that day. Maybe there's going to be elements that may change it. But back to pre-shot routine, I think there is overarching ideas of what we want to do. One, we want to be aware of our environment to be able to make a decision. We've got to make a decision. And that is focus and that is how's the lie? Where's the one coming from? But then internally, what's the best solution for that? I'm going to ask you in a moment how you make decisions. Do you make it with your head or with your gut? So ask you there in a second. So when somebody's in a pre-shot routine, they have to gather information. I think nowadays with the luxury of alasers and GPS, people are actually getting lazier in their pre-shot routine. Oh, yeah, it's 152. And then they pull out their eight iron and their 15 yard short. They go, "One, 50, I go." There's 15-mile an hour win into it's playing up seven and they go, "Oh, well, I didn't know about that." No, it's there, but you weren't aware of it, right? So we have to be aware, focus on what's relevant. Make a decision based on our skill sets. Not try to be heroes, right? So that's going to be a key part of the pre-sharver team. It's thinking. Then we go from thinking to what's my best shot. And then I go from thinking to doing. And that's where visualization, practice swings can come into play. How do I want to execute that shot? I can see it. There it is right there. And then there's a part of the letting go, which is detachment. Okay. I got it. Yeah. All right, let's go. And that's all about focus. There might be some practice swings in there. There might be visualization there. Those are some elements that may help you go from gathering information, making a decision and committing great. Okay. So back to decisions though. Okay. I think in this day and age, we're taught a lot about analytics and it's A plus B always equals C. Yeah. And some players are going to be very much rich. It just has to make sense up here. And then I've had other players. Let's say they're in between clubs. They go, you know what? It just, my gut tells me it's a three quarter eight hour. How do you make decisions on the course? Usually it's probably more gut than anything else. But I think what you just said that, I think when I think more with my gut, I think it's easier to do that and makes me a little bit lazy around kind of like actually figuring out the type of shot that I need to play. Like going with the gut, going with your gut and going with your feels, I think overall is probably a nice kind of option to have. But when I get into that kind of position, that makes me lazy. It's kind of like, okay, well, I kind of feel that it's going to be that. So cool. Let's let's go with it rather than actually looking through all the numbers and really figuring it out. So I need to, I need to pull myself back from thinking on my gut too much and actually being a bit more cerebral about it and going through what is the win, what is the number, is there a slope? What's, if I want to miss this, do I want to miss it long? Do I want to miss it short? These kind of things. I want to get away from that. That's when I start to fall down a little bit. Yeah. So decision-making to me is fascinating because the ball's not moving. So, and I know we don't want to be the slow player in the group. That's not the point. But I don't think people are using the 20 to 30 seconds wisely. And can they, and we've played enough golf in our life where a lot of it is subconscious, right? We can read the lie pretty quickly. We can feel the wind a little. We can see elevate. We don't necessarily have to have all the yardage books like a tour player does per se. But if you're skipping those things and then you're missing greens and going, I thought it was, that's a decision well before it was an execution issue. And I would like for people to take that three or four extra seconds to know what is the shot first off. And then what is your solution? And why I talk about like head and gut is that sometimes people's egos get in the way of their decision, right? Well, my buddy's hitting nine iron. I better hit nine iron. I would be made fun of if they knew I'm hitting the little seven iron. Yeah. It's the wrong shot. Your egos now telling you. And on that right instead of what's the best shot for us to play, we certainly need to know risk reward. We need to manage our game. Yet there are players that they have to be more internal like, you know what? I don't have my egg game today. I'm going to take the extra club. Yeah. But some people don't want to admit that. No, no. They're still making the same mistakes on that. I think one of the things I saw which was really kind of hit home for me. I've just filled with Aaron Rye earlier this year. Yes. And his yardage book is one of the wildest things I've ever seen in my life. Like we're doing a we're doing it effectively, but it's just a short game challenge. So let's help a few stations around a green from like 50 yards to like a few yards off. And we've got a chip. Now this chip is from me. Like you want to be landing it from me to you. Right? That's how short it was. And we get a set around the chat and he pulls out his yardage book. And he opens up his yardage book. I'm kind of like, well, we'll see you doing it. And on the inside of his yardage book he's got every single carry from every conceivable length of swing with every club. Now we're talking from here to he's got 60 degree wedge like literally seven o'clock to five o'clock or five o'clock seven or whatever it was. And he was just, I need to look at this because what he does, it gives me the confidence. Yes. And he allows me to make a decision a lot easier. Like it is was completely baffling because that's the thing that if I'm over that shot, I'm like, yeah, 16 just like, yeah, and then try and get the feel. But he was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I know the shot. Then he goes into getting a little bit of a feel free before he hits and then executes. And it was just like, that's baffling. Right. So the preparation that goes into believable is amazing. And I think not that every player needs to go to that length, but I want to kind of talk a little little bit about confidence, right? Yeah. Right. So that's helps him prepare no matter what pressure he's feeling. I need to do this. Yeah. To fill some certainty, to fill some confidence. Yeah. Right. Because like he knew. Correct. That swing would reduce that. Yes. So when you're over a ball, that the confidence that would give me and would obviously give him a great player, I want that. Right. And I saw that. And I was like, this is crazy. But I'm kind of into it. I've had a few X's like that. It's softer than downfall. But I think this is the kind of stuff that is completely different. I've never thought like that before. And to be able to use that. to be more confident. It was like, wow, yeah, this is cool. - Yeah, so I mean, pressure, we wanna use preparation, we wanna use our routine, certainly to do that. I think for some people, feeling pressure, they start to doubt their skills. So I look at confidence as, do you believe you have the skills to match the challenge in front of you? Now, you could perceive the challenge differently. You could perceive your skills differently. Like one day, yeah, I'm in a grade, next day, I can't play golf anymore. But you still not have to play golf, right? So when we talk about confidence, which is, to me is a skill. What do you do that builds confidence? - Not a lot really. - It's a bonus. - But we know it's important. - Yeah, yeah, and it's one of the biggest weaknesses that I have, actually confidence and trust. - Yes. - Yeah, it's tough. I'm always questioning myself. - Okay, and so where does confidence come from? - In my mind, confidence comes from having done it before, being able to like recall when you play good shots or like when you've done something good in a certain situation. I think it's just difficult. I think it's difficult to be able to do that and to trust it and to believe it, especially when I'm naturally quite a self, myself talk is usually earring on the negative side. - Sure. - Very, very pretty self deprecating. So it's kind of hard for me to trust even what I'm saying. If I'm trying to convince myself. This is why inside my mind is such a dark and twisted place. 'Cause I can try and be confident. I can try and trust myself. But there's also another voice in there that says, - Yeah, you say, "Well, I'll talk to you later." - Get that guy off here. - It's a glue. - Yeah, it's glue-daw. We got some work to do. But back to you said about, have we done it before? - Yeah. - Right? So one of my favorite stories is student of mine, Colin Moore, Kyle, 2020 PGA Championship. He is, gets up to the 16th hole final round and he sees Paul Casey make a birdie to tie him. - Yeah. - So now three shots left, or excuse me, three holes left and you're tied for the lead in the PGA Championship. Most people would feel pressure. Right? And what he did in that moment is he had to make a decision. At 16th hole, they moved the tease up a little bit. The whole location, the wind was different. And he ended up hitting driver. And then he had not done that in the previous three rounds. And so in that moment, he makes a decision. He then sees the shot, but what he says in interviews afterwards is he recalled past success. He recalled two shots. He had hit the previous month at a different PGA tour event to a drivable par four where he played really, really well. So the point of it is, is you do have memory up there because you've hit a great shot beyond with every single club in your back. Right? So how do you filter and choose that memory over what we don't want? That's a skill. - Correct. - Yeah, oh man, yeah. - 100%. - So part of the learning is, do you, get sidetracked a little bit, do you celebrate great shots when you're playing off? - It's honestly, you're like literally singing into my eyes right now. So I've tried so hard this year to, I'm not exactly the correct terminology, but stuff I've read in the past, and I think, I want to say it was Palmer. Like he basically said, how he prepares for a shot is to get his number, get his club, think about the best shot he's ever hit with that club. - Yes. - And then kind of execute. - Yes. - And what I've tried to do so much more this year is understand that if I hit a bad shot, because it's like memory, the memories that you recall and the quickest to come to mind in anything, the things that you have that strong emotional attachment. - 100%. - And if you go around and you get really emotional over bad shots, the like that is, you're gonna remember those more. And then when you face with that situation again, that's what you're gonna recall. - Correct. - So I've tried so hard to like, when I hit a bad shot, to be like, okay, it's fine, it's gone. And then try and move on and like not dwell on it. And then if I do hit a good shot, like I said, try and celebrate it a little bit more and try and be like, I'm, what a great shot. I mean, remember that. - Yes. - I'm really gonna remember that. What a great shot, fantastic. And then just try and kind of take it in a little bit more. - Yes. - But again, it's hard. It's really hard because like, when you hit a bad shot, your emotional response could be pretty quick. - Yes. - Oh, yeah, I had the clubs flying through the air, the wind milling through. - Oh, no. - I'm gonna remember that. (laughs) You bring up a good point and we'll talk about a post shot routine in a moment, okay? 'Cause we need to bring down that, the reaction. Yet confidence is about, it is about success. Don't give me wrong. Hit great shots, but feel great shots. Players at your level sometimes take them for granted. You hit a five-iron from two-ten to five feet and you go, "Yeah, I'm supposed to do that." - Yeah. - No offense, you're not supposed to do that. That's a lead of a lead of a lead. Can you admit that's really good? In fact, what lead to that was, I had such a clear picture of that in the air and I had a really good feeling. I did that smooth breath. I want you to anchor that through the process. What lead to that? So you can do it more often, right? So either people just dismiss it 'cause you're good player and you go, "Wow, I'm supposed to do that." So you're not anchoring it, okay? Or, we, again, we just, or we say, "It's about time I hit a good shot." And there's just nothing. But on the opposite end, we hit poor shots. We put a lot of emotion and frustration and anger to it. You will recall those shots. - Oh, really quick, yeah. - As you just mentioned, your memory is built on emotion and what you imprint on that. And so I want people, and it doesn't mean you have to do big fist pumps when you make birdie, but acknowledge, "Hey, that was really good." And that felt good. I had a clear visualization. Now you're anchoring that so you can recall it in the future, right? So yes, past success. Being able to, I have people right down the best shot they've hit with their, every club in their back. When it happened, where it happened, what the weather was like, how it felt off the face, over and over again. And then they put it in their yardage book. I have a five round. Oh yeah, that five round hit three months ago. It does it, and it changes our focus, which now changes how we feel on that. So I think we've talked about prep for confidence. We now talk about past results. I talk a lot about visualization. We've talked about that too, as see success before it happens. If you're on a hole that doesn't match your eye, sometimes it's hard to even see it. There's some doubt, isn't there? Yeah, yeah, okay. So using visualization as, this is what I got, boom, right? That helps trust, that helps confidence. So visualization we talk about, we can talk through the shot, what's a good shot look like here, what's a good shot feel like here, and we're getting into to that. The other key thing, and you're gonna like this one, self-talk. What am I saying to myself before I'm gonna hit a golf shot? Yeah, that's the last piece, and sometimes the most important piece. I can recall great shots, I can do that, and then before I go, oh crap, I really don't like this shot. Yeah, oh, that's out there, right? And it doesn't mean we're having these affirmations like I'm the greatest player of all time, but if you just had to answer, have I hit this shot well before, the answer's gonna be yes, 100% of the time. But so that self-talk is important, is that we tend to be negative, we tend to be critical. Elite players are critical of themselves, don't get me wrong, but in that moment, it's not a time to be critical. It's a time to have belief, it's a time. What, and I know you have been positive, what are you saying to yourself when you're playing well and right before that shot? What are things that are going through your mind? Well, when I'm playing well, when I'm playing well, I'm a lot kind to myself, definitely. I think it's easier to accept when you play well, it's easier to accept the bad shots, I think. 'Cause it's kind of like, it's okay, I'm okay, I'm playing a bad shot, but that's okay, it's fine. I'm playing well. I think when not striking it well, that's when it's very hard to maintain that positivity, and that's when the negativity really does start to creep in a lot more. I think when I'm playing my best, it's more like just kind of the self-affirmation, I suppose, it's like, you can hit that shot. And I think probably decision-making, it's a lot easier with that as well. I think the worst that I play, the more unlikely shots I'll try and take on, 'cause I'm trying to correct, over-correct. Interesting. So I'm aware of what's happening more. I think a lot of people are. A lot of people when they're being very negative to all of themselves, it's not secret, but it's your voice, isn't it? You are being negative to yourself, it's kind of hard to, it's quite busy, I'm hard to stop. No, 100% and I think part of it is like, I have some of my players, I ask them to caddy for somebody for just one round, okay? And notice how you would respond, right? So if you're cadding for me, I three put from eight feet on the first hole, and we're walking to the second green, what are you as the caddy telling me as the player? Like if you're like kissing yourself and you're angry about that three-foot going to the next, that's probably something you do, but when it's somebody else, you're like, this isn't going to help this person. Right. And that's what you'd be talking about. You'd be like, you know, that hole's gone, can't do anything about it. You have the ability to leave that in the past if you want to. Yes. So just be if you want to the next shot. What is the next shot? What is the yardage or the rest of it? Right. And it's amazing like when you do caddy and when you're like coaching, How a parentate becomes. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Because we're removing ourselves. Obviously we're not the ones hitting the shots. We're removing ourselves. There's a little bit of detachment. There's a little bit different perspective. In perspective, we are less emotional. As a coach, I still want them to play well. Don't get me wrong. But there's less emotional attachment to it. But even if I did that and some caddies would say, "Hey, we got 17 holes left." And yet, what happened on that first day footer? You hit it four feet by. Was that a misread? Was that you think at the speed down? Did you feel, to me, that's at least taking the information to learn from it. But most people are just hypercritical. So when I talk about post-shot routine, it's, let's learn from the shots that normally are going to light the fuse of the dynamite. And instead of saying, "You're horrible record. I can't believe how bad you are." It's like, "I wonder why that ball went left. I wonder why I missed it here." And I go mental first, was somebody distracted? They have doubt. And they picked it on club. That could have happened, right? Or was it physical? Was it the swing? I got under it playing again. I flipped it. Okay. Processing that in a more analytical way of curiosity is much different than critical. It's easy to hit that shot. Right. It's like, okay, now I've got the energy that's bubbling up here probably stays with me maybe for the next decision. And now I take more risks on the next decision to make up for this. And now we have a spiral that's occurring. That looks. You bet, right? So post-shot routine to me is crucial to manage emotions. But it also can help keep the confidence somewhat sturdy. Yeah. If confidence is only related on good shot, I feel good, bad shot. I'm down here. As we know, it's a roller coaster ride at best. Yeah. I think this, silly this season, it's been, I think the detachment is a good word. You are. You're not being personally. Like, taking the personal out of it and just be like, it's okay. This is something which has happened to me rather than which is. Which. This is what I'm trying to say. It's like something which has happened to me so I can choose how to react. Definitely. And also, like, the. I try very much to. If there's a bad situation gone on, I'm talking like almost in life here, but on the golf course, if there's something which has happened, all I want to do is I want to think about it long enough to learn from it. And then I can let it go. Correct. So I can't go back and change it. Correct. Like, not being able to travel back in time is a pretty key metric, okay? It isn't. And on that. of how I coach post-shot routine, is I do a lot of playing lessons. And let's say you hit a shot that I know you're going to react to. Like, you miss a green with the wedge in your hand. And I know bubble up, right? I immediately put another ball down and say, "Okay, what did we learn? What are we going to adjust?" Now, you might want to still be mad that you missed the green. And I'm saying, "What did you learn? Let's do it again." And that allows you to go, "Well, you know, what I was in between, and I could tell I was trying to hit a three-quarter wedge, and I should have hit the gap wedge." It's a great. Now you're at least learning from it. And I'm giving you an opportunity as quickly as possible to do that. Obviously, in a tournament setting, you don't get them all again down there. But could I reframe that and go, next time I'm in that situation, I need you to do this instead. Because we have so much experience on the golf course if we want to learn from it. Yeah. But unfortunately, we stamp it with the critical voice, and I can't believe how bad you are today, we're like, "Dada-dada." And then good luck when I need that confidence later in the round, because that's how I beat myself up for it. Yeah. Okay. And again, we're joking, but we're serious. I mean, it's. Golf is a very vulnerable game. It exposes us. It's like, we won't want to, you know, make mistakes in front of our mates and stuff like that, and it happens. Yeah, yeah. And we have that's the answer. That pull and that pressure gets in the way of us enjoying the game more. So my last question for you today is about enjoyment. Yeah. Okay. Are we supposed to enjoy this game? As far as I'm aware, I'm not entirely sure. It is a question that needs to be asked. I do think golf is like all of us were kind of just sickos, I think. Yeah. I think we found our sport. No, no. We just like the self-judgment. It's difficult in it because like, golf is a game. Like you play games to have fun. It's like literally the point. Yeah. To engage yourself. And I think it's so hard to not take things personal on the golf course because it's such an insular sport, like you're in your own head all the way. So if things start to go wrong, it's really easy to get annoyed and to get stressed off and to be like, you know what, I just hate this. I talk a lot about motivation. And motivation to me as I define it as motive to take action is why do you play golf? Yeah. And everybody will have multiple reasons hopefully. Why they play and that changes throughout the years. And I don't play as much as I used to. I don't play competitive anymore, but I used to play it, right? And it changes, right? So why do you play golf? I think ultimately at the moment, I think it's a really good point. I wouldn't say at the moment it's just for enjoyment. I enjoy being out on the course, enjoying being out on nature. I enjoy the game for what it is. I can appreciate it for what it is. But I say at the moment, so the compromise is for the satisfaction of being able to play well. Yeah. And I'll drive enjoyment from that. Sure. So it is about the game. It's about golf, but it's kind of golf adjacent. It's more the fact I've done something really well. Right. And I prepared for it, I've achieved my goals. And I've done something which I'm kind of proud of. And I can take satisfaction from that. It just happens to be that golf is how I'm achieving that. And I think certainly when I play with kind of mates and kind of play with my dad, especially, he'll enjoy playing for playing, where I'm a lot more, I'm not quite there at the moment. Like you said, it's more competitive. It's more orientated around goals. So that's why I'm kind of playing at the moment. And I think that's fine. Right. I think it's important to have multiple layers to it is that golf is this ultimate competition against ourselves too. Right. So we're competing and we want to get some joy out of hitting great shots and scoring well. I totally agree with that. I think also understanding about being in beautiful nature. And I mean, we've been fortunate to be on some of the greatest golf courses in the world and just going, wow, look at this. How lucky I am. We get to play with friends, the social side of it. We get to play with family members. So there's a social component to that. There's certainly an exercise component, recreation for people. There is that goal setting all the time of, I want to accomplish something. And golf is always one step ahead of you. You can always, so I like the judgment, or excuse me, I like the achievement of oriented part of it. I just think balancing it out so it's not just always in one of those buckets. Because if that's not there, you're right. We want to throw the clubs in the lake type of a thing. So I think for everyone it's understanding why are you playing golf. I mean, it's just an unbelievable game. We've been very fortunate what it's done for our careers too. But why did we play in the first place? It might be different than why we're at here. And to remember when we were a little kid and hitting shots and wasn't my competition, it was about goofing off and it was about what our buddies are right, is I think we need to get that spirit back in that playful energy back as like a child sometimes. Because I think we learn better. Yeah, we're not being ourselves up as much. So I think generally it's so easy to lose that, isn't it? So easy to just get so focused in what you're like trying to do, that you do forget. Like ultimately you play the, you wouldn't have continued to play the game if you didn't enjoy it. Exactly. So then trying to get that back. So let them enjoy it. Well that was just a lovely route to in wonderful conversation. And it was also very well sent up. Oh, the actual set of yeah, or on real presence to show you guys. Guys at JMS were a kind of an agency who looked after Goldbribe. They were setting up all these cameras. And it was overkill. It was like there's a few angles. FX3 and from every side. Absolutely heaven. Yeah, like it was unbelievable. And I was like wow, this is, this is impressive. Did you feel pressure to have some salient points? No, because of the camera set. Not really. I'm comfortable enough now knowing that, you know, just I'm fine talking rubbish. Yeah, it's fine. It was great. It was great. Look, yeah, we did look great up our game, but we can't up it that much. Well, we can't. Unless, unless, unless, unless the 10,000 people listening to this right now want to become a member of the YouTube channel. That would be that would be great. We could do that. Thank you. That would be wonderful. So yeah, the last couple of things you spoke about were really interesting. One of which was him reminding you that in the moments where you're, you know, you're feeling stressed or you're maybe the game's not going the way that it's supposed to, that it is still fun. And that, you know, when you first picked up a golf club and you the ball did the thing that you wanted it to do, there's that feeling in your soul that goes, wow. This is cool. I want to keep doing this. Is that something that you ever think about that you're, that you're, you know, that it is actually really fun to play golf? Yeah, I mean, you've got to, you've always got a bearing mind that it is a game and, you know, any game that you play in life. If you're not enjoying it, then there's probably not a lot of point in carrying on. You shouldn't just play a game because of the people playing it or in the hope that one day it might turn round for you. Golf is supposed to be a game where you derive enjoyment. Even though at times it's not like that because it is a very frustrating sport, we all know that anyone who's played golf for any period of time will have moments where they absolutely hate golf. But ultimately people come back because it is a game and deep down, very deep down at times. It is still fun. And the video where you played against Luke Kwon recently actually comes up in conversation you saying he was talking about he's taken up the drums and you were saying I kind of feel like I need another hobby, a thing to do when I'm not playing golf. But then he made it quite a good point which is that if you still enjoy golf, then this also can be your hobby. You don't need to find something else. You feel that you still are enjoying playing golf? Yeah, but I don't really play that much at the moment without kind of filming or without it being in a comp. So it is still a hobby and it's great. It's amazing really the fact that we get to kind of make a job out of it. But yeah, it's not something that I would say I'm doing full fun at the moment. I still enjoy playing and I still have fun playing golf, but it's not. It's a lot more than a hobby for me if that makes sense. Yeah. I guess there's always a pressure point on whenever you play because whether if it's in a comp obviously pressure involved in that, but like filming a course vlog and flying all the way to Pebble and you get one chance at it to go and film a good video. You've got to play good golf. Yeah. You know, there's sort of terrible. Well, one of the other people, you just pick one and we'll go with you. Yeah, no, it's just more well. We've been playing the diary a little bit kind of this week and trying to figure out what we're going to be doing next few months. And essentially going through a diary, going through a schedule, it's hard to say, right, case of this day, sorry, I can't do that. I'm going to go play and have fun. Yeah. Yeah. What was the last time you played a, I mean, you played with your dad a little bit last day, kind of like end of last year, tiny bit, for, for, I mean, you're the way that your brain works, you'll still be analysing and thinking about the game and not necessarily playing full fun, but like, what was the last time you went out and had no, like very, very, very low pressure? Can't remember. I don't know when was last time we played again. But he knows he's going to win. Also, the way that we tend to kind of plan our, our year around golf as well is this time of year when we're travelling a lot. I would traveling to Phil. And, you know, there ain't, there ain't a hundred white horses with ropes around my legs that could drag me onto a golf course with the weather like this outside. I'm with you on that one. Yeah. You know, it's not great. Golf is meant to be fun. And I ain't ever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, it was stolen before by the way. Great. Even better. Excellent news. Excellent news. Yeah. My dad has been doing a lot of complain, my dad lives down in London. He's been doing a lot of complaining about his golf course being shot and, you know, and, you know, the court. And then they also, they, they do that thing where they don't shut the course. And they're like, yeah, go out and play if you want, but it's carry only and it's all temperies and green. So pretty. My dad's golf thought a coding system in there. So I said, code green is just like you go and you can play and it's all open. It's all fine. Yeah. And then code black is, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure code black is a code red. It's like code like code red means like the course is like close, but ultimately that only happens on extreme circumstances. They do this whole coding system. So it's like, I don't know, code brown. I know, it's just really muddy. So be aware. And like each code has like, oh, you can carry, be kind of you trolley or you can have your. It's very complex. But it's very complicated for the, yeah, it's kind of it's code black today. But yeah, it's it's, it's even if you went out like you can't and it's very hard to enjoy yourself when you it's not comfortable and it's not like golf fun, Mick. golf is fun. Don't sound like you find that fun though. No, I, I, in the watch the podcast, yeah, you're quite right. Okay. So let's talk about let's talk about the other really interesting thing that you discussed, which was him telling you that they tried very hard not to have a lot of technical thoughts when he was referencing your game and also referencing Colin Morakawa's game. They tried very hard not to have a lot of technical thoughts on the golf course, which completely makes sense. But because you obviously you should be out there playing the game not thinking about your swing, which you know is a regular thing that people say, play golf, not golf swing, makes sense. But you said something really interesting, which was if you, which you listen, I listen to it and it was very good. If you start to think technically about the game and you hit a really good shot, then you go, oh, that technical thing I was thinking about must be why I've hit that really good shot. And then you maybe don't hit a good shot and then you're thinking, okay, well, that technical thing wasn't the thing that made me hit a good shot. So I'll implement this other technical thing. And then you hit a good shot and you'll the entire time you're like compounding the overthinking on the golf course, which you get to 18 fairway and you're like, forgot to enjoy this. Yeah. Everyone does it. Everybody does it. It's very hard to go out on a golf course and not have a technical swing. 100%. And for some people, it's impossible. It's actually impossible just to go out and play the game. I don't think I've ever gone out and just played the game. Yeah, it's because the thing is with golf, you have to allow there to be a lack of control, but it's a close skill and a lack of controlling golf, certainly within your mind can mean slices into the woods and hooks into the water. So you end up trying to control as much as you physically can when the best performers in any sport will go out and play free from technical thought or certainly have only a technical thought that doesn't impinge on the freedom of the technique. So the best way, the very best way to play golf. And this isn't a new, like, fan-angled idea, but it's that you practice hard enough on your technique that when you get out onto the golf course, it's more of an automatic system. So you don't have to think about it and that you can trust it. But it's a very hard thing to do. And, you know, when Rick talked about flow code and like being in the moment and having a flow state mentality, it's being able to go out and play without technical thoughts. But it's hard. It is really hard to do. Yeah. I definitely, even as a, you know, mid-handy cap golfer, can definitely relate to moments where something in the swing that day has just felt right. And I kind of had the thought at the start of the day on whole one, two and three, but then it kind of works and then you sort of lose it and you trust it. And then you, especially with the driver for me, like, if it gets to a point where I'm like, right, just do that again, do that again, do it. And I'm not thinking about the, make sure your hands do this. So you know, I was doing that and whatever it might be. I guess it's always the points when it goes wrong is the hard part. Because you can go step onto a course and not have any technical thought. And then you hit, like you say, you hit that one bad shot and then you're trying to recalibrate and rework out. What my wrong, what do I need to do? Was I actually doing that thing? Yeah. And I think one of the things I've always struggled with as well as that you kind of go through a transition of doing something different or whatever it might be. And then you kind of reinforce it, reinforce it, reinforce it and you continually doing so. You almost go the other way of going too far, if that makes sense. Anyway. But yeah, it's just such a hard thing to navigate on the golf course of not thinking about one specific. Just hit the ball. Yeah. But then if you think back to the best rounds or like the best feeling rounds you've ever had, like I was there when you shot the best round you've ever shot. Yeah. And you won. So I've got to clear, I have shot better than that one, but I know what you're going to say. Yeah. So I was there for that, I think you shot 73 or 72 or something. We went out after work and the sun was going down and everyone was having a great time. And you weren't, I don't think thinking very hard about things that was happening. But then we got to 18 and you chipped onto the green and you were like, oh my god, if I hold this part, yeah, I will shoot my best score ever. And you missed the part. Of course. Then you tapped it and you still shot your best goal ever. That was great. But I think the one I want to ask you about is about regional qualifying because you went out there having prepared really well for it. And then everything was completely different. So how do you get your brain out of the mode, you know, you've done all the prep and then the prep goes out the window. How do you then get yourself back into a space where you're like, I've just come here to play the next shot and to play golf and not think, how do I do that? So open qualifying was, best way to describe in it. Open qualifying was easy. easier to do that, on the day that I played because the wind was so strong. So when the wind was as strong as it was, it was unbelievably windy that day. There's so many really good plays who didn't break 80 over my 70. And kind of got onto the first tee and it was like, well, a lot of the plans that I've had out of the window now, I'm going to have to change clothes in hit different shots. But also it was when the wind was off my left hand side, I draw it into the wind. When the wind was off my right hand side, I'd cut it into the wind. And for me to play a draw in a cut, I don't really think about that too technically. I changed the way that I aim. I changed my club face alignment. I might change my grip, but I'll just hit draws and I'll hit hooks. I'll try and feel it into the wind. So the tough of the conditions, the less I would be prone to think about my technique. And that helps. And you think that's because you're focusing more on the shot you need to hit. And not how you need to hit that shot. I'm not asked about P4 positioning. It's 40 mile an hour. Yeah. You're just like, I need to get the ball between that and that. I've just got to find this bit on the course. Yeah. And also it was just a fact that I'd put in a decent amount of practice before the round. And I just was able to, I'll strike it pretty well. So I was able to trust myself. But the thing is, it's the hard. In some respects, I think people listening to this or people watching this will be able to go out on the golf course and just swing and play. The hardest thing to do is to going out, see your shots, kind of pick your numbers, pick your clubs, hit the shot. The hardest thing is when it goes wrong is not to start thinking, I know what I did that it was my right arm position. So I'll just practice. And then all of a sudden, like you said, it's one thing after another by nine holes, you got 12 swing thoughts. So it's a very easy thing to do to try and latch onto swing thoughts and feelings to try and establish a sense of control when that control is an illusion. It's a myth. And it's one of the worst things I had when, so when I was giving lessons, it's all coming for lesson after a couple of weeks. It's like, you know, have your time to practice. So no, no, not really. I've played a couple of times and, you know, I've not played very well. It's probably because you've taken what we've done on a lesson, which is a technical change. You've taken it to the golf course, not practiced it. And introducing something new, especially it was a big change. It's just going to cause absolute carnage. So it's very easy then to say, wow, that's this not working. And then, and then almost giving up on it, and then it means stuck in this weird halfway house between a new swing and an old swing. Yeah, the ability to get a lesson is great, but you have to have the ability to practice in between. And then understand that the whole point of the practice is when you get onto the golf course, you just go play rather than taking your practice out there. But it's an easy thing to say. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good point. Thank you for finishing. Appreciate that. Well done, Peter Finch. It's on the left hand side. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Poignancy level. Hi. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us for the 165th episode of the Roughcut Golf Podcast. Thanks to Rick Sessenhouse and to the guys at Golf Pride for hooking that up for us. Some, it's one of those, when I was watching it, is one of those ones that you kind of have to go back and watch again, because there's so much in there. Oh, yeah. It's, it's a, this is a very much video and a podcast you can save. Yeah. So it's going to be a, it's going to be a dip back in job, I reckon. Yeah. Honestly, it's almost like a, if you wanted to watch or kind of listen to the, the main bit of that podcast with Rick, wants a month a bit steep, but yeah, want every few months, like just to remind yourself, just to get out of the zone, you know, you get to, yeah. That would be great. Yeah. Then no, that it do you, it do you a lot of good. That'd be a great way just to kind of resend, remind self what you should be doing. Yeah. Excellent. So we'll, I'm going to go and do that now. I'm going to go watch it again. Great. And we will see you all next week. Thanks again to the members, you, you Fescue Club and all the rest of you. Things that are coming up on the members platform that you could have access to. Something which is coming out on the main channel, which is going to be one hour long is going to come out on the members platform and it's going to be three hours long. So if you want the in depth, really geeky version of a video coming out on the main channel, make sure you're a Fescue Club member. And if you like Luke Cmon and Peter Finch talking to each other in a golf buggy, also become a member because I've got the uncut edit of the Luke Cmon match with all it's just all of the car cams back to back to back, which is hilarious. So go and do that and we'll see you next time. Okay. See you then. Bye everyone.