The Making of a Beauty Queen

[MUSIC] Fernanda. Shiko. I guess I should tell folks who you are, right? I guess so. You and I have spent a wild amount of time together. We recorded this series together in the studio. You were in the studio in the US and I was in the studio here in Brazil. Yes. You're my senior producer. The senior producer of Don't Crosscat. Are you sure you want to spend even more time with me? You haven't gotten sick of me yet? No, not yet. I mean, we can do, I would say we can do two more podcasts before I'm through with you. That's your limit. Okay. We're still on the upside. [MUSIC] You got to ask a lot of questions reporting on this story. And now I want to ask you some questions because for this episode, there were a few things that we didn't get to talk about in the making of the series that we wanted to bring up, especially something that happened after we wrapped. Right. Yes, we'll be talking about the recent news and how it helped us understand where cat tour is this, both mentally and physically, right? Yes. And we're also going to take a look behind the scenes and get to know you a little bit more, Shiko. And how reporting on this story may or may not have changed you. I'm so much more skeptical than I was 18 months ago. Okay. So let's do this. [MUSIC] [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] I'm Leon Nefak. What happens when only fans becomes more than just a side hustle? Only fantasy is an in-depth look at the world's newest profession and how the rules of human intimacy are being rewritten online. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or binge all episodes of Only Fantasy, add free only on Audible. [MUSIC] From "Ondary", I'm Shiko Feliti. And this is episode eight of Don't Cross Care with Fernanda Eichaviri, the making of the show and the makings of the beauty queen. [MUSIC] Okay, Shiko, so you have something to show me, right? I'm going to open up my phone since we're not in the same place. Let me open up my phone. Yeah, I just said it to you. You're going to show me. Via WhatsApp, which is something Americans don't are not very familiar with, but we are. I know. I'm Mexican. And the Latin American WhatsApp crew. So I get you. Okay, so let me open it up. So this is the picture of cat Tories winning a beauty pageant. Oh, look at her. Yes, inside the penitentiary where she's in it might. There's two photos. She, one of them is a group shot. They're all wearing long white dresses. And the other one is the individual photo where cat is wearing sort of like a dark green dress with some lace. And in both of those photos, honestly, not a hair out of place. Her hair is tucked on the side a little bit on one side. So it's blonde soft waves to the side with a maybe red lip color situation. Can go wrong with both of them. She looks stunning. I got to say, she doesn't look like she's like in prison. I mean, none of these women look like they're in prison. No, they look like they're in a quincehange era. They kind of do. You're right. It's sort of a quincehange era vibe. Okay, so how does someone in prison end up looking like this? How does this work? Yeah, it's really peculiar. Not coming at all in Brazil, but they do hold a beauty pageant in this specific all female jail in Brazil. It's some things somewhat new. It's been around for six or seven years. But they do have a beauty pageant that will crown the most beautiful female inmate in Brazil. And Cat Torres was crowned the queen of the jail shizzin currently. I mean, I mean, she was a supermodel. So it's kind of unfair to throw a supermodel into a jail of, quote unquote, normal women. So I want to like race a flag like, excuse me, judge on fairness here. Yeah, so I mean, of course she would win. She was a supermodel. She was on billboards on sunset Boulevard. I mean, the odds were in her favor. But I have to say, and you know, while we were reporting this series, there was a documentary that came out from the BBC. And you know, she didn't look great. And I know at one point you said that you heard from somebody that was close to her while we were reporting on this, that she didn't. She wasn't eating. She didn't look well. She doesn't look unwell in this. Yeah, I think it's that complicated because we do have to take in consideration. She's been arrested for over a year now. So she had an initial time. She had an initial process of getting depressed and quitting her medication while she was in jail and going through a deep depression. She describes a deep depression. She describes losing over 40 pounds, experiencing hair loss and being extremely depressed in jail. But that was a while ago. That was over a year ago. And apparently what we can take from this pictures and the beauty pageant, she, at least she looks well. She looks healthy. She looks beautiful. She's got another picture now where it's just cat with what looks like. I don't know some sort of prison official. She's holding like a price. What could possibly be in that box? What did she win? I can't tell by zooming in. What did she win? I do recall that the first place would take home a. How do you call them iron planks in English? The ones to use to iron your hair? Oh, like a flat iron? A flat iron, yeah, precisely, and a table fan as well, which are two very useful things. Honestly, great prices. They are. And she was awarded both of them. In or out of prison, great prices. Great prices. But I'm sure in prison, those are even better things to have, like very coveted items. Yeah. Getting into like more serious topic though, what do you think is actually going through her mind? Cat's mind, because we know that she went through some really dark moments while in prison. And then she has this moment of imagining, you know, it wasn't just sprung on them that they were having a beauty pageant. I'm sure that she was looking forward to it. Maybe she wasn't. I don't know. What do you think is going through her mind during all of this, during the show and when she wins? What I've learned from her family and the people close to her is that she was really thrilled about it. It was the first time she had a glimpse of hope and she had a glimpse of excitement over anything that happened since she was arrested. But I do think we should also address the fact that now that she's getting more media attention, her life seems to be filled with meaning. Now that she's sought after now that people have interest in her life again, that she felt abandoned. In this first period in which she was arrested, that she felt left out. And now that the media include us in that as well, we cannot be hypocritical about it. We also got in touch with her with her family, we wrote her letters. So there was a certain level of attention she got and she seems to be satisfied with the attention she's getting from the media. I don't even know what to do with that because I want to say, my initial reaction is like, I'm glad that she's not in a dark place. I'm glad that she's wakes up in the morning and finds some sort of meaning with her existence. But then it's also kind of like, is the only meaning in your life, the attention that you get from others because of your beauty. But I do think that it summarizes very well her life story, the way she was treated since a kid and the way she started treating other women when she gained power and she conquered influence. She always taught people that they should manage to get control over other people through your beauty and to your youth. So I do think it makes a lot of sense, it's her modest operandist. You know, in the episode where we get more into Kat's backstory, you know, there was so much to get into that we didn't dive too deep into the fact that she actually competed in a beauty contest in Brazil at a national level. So she did start with beauty contest. Can you get into that a little more? When she was about 23, she was living in Italy, but not really getting the modeling job she thought she would get once in Europe. So she headed back to Brazil to enter the Miss São Paulo beauty pageant. I spoke with Jean Paulito, one of the people who worked for the beauty pageants. He helped run the pageants all over Brazil. You know, I only understand a little bit of Portuguese, so what is he saying there on that tape? So he's pretty much saying there are two ways to enter a competition. The first one is the regular way. He went there by winning a local CD pageant 10. the state one and then you get to represent your state in the national competition. The other ways to get nominated by someone and go straight to the state competition and that's the way Cat did since she didn't even live in Cairo. She had never said food there in that city. And was she at least good? Because it's one thing to, you know, model for photographs. It's another to do the whole beauty pattern. Like you got to walk the walk and have this like miscontiniality personality and know how to do the whole thing, you know. Hope for a world peace and she did. Yeah, yeah, you got to do all that. She did pretty good according to Johnny Paulito, the man who trained her remotely at first by video calls because she was in Europe. He describes her as an natural. So John says he had to teach her a couple of things like walking like a beauty queen and to wave softly and very delicately. But she, he says it wasn't all that much teaching. He says she was a natural. And one of the good things besides being beautiful, being very pretty and very model like she already spoke some English, which was essential. And it's not very common in Brazil. If you want to go higher, if you want to go to Miss America or Miss Universe Miss World, you have to be bilingual. Okay, so she's in the contest. She's on TV. I can see her in this video. She's walking to the front of the stage. She's got, you know, one hand on her waist. She's smiling at the judges. She totally looks like she's done this before, by the way. Yeah, she does. At that's when she makes it to the quarterfinals. I guess she's among the 12 or 10 finalists of the contest in a contest that held close to 40 contestants. And at this point, I mean, this is being broadcast on live national TV, right? Which means that cat is being seen all over Brazilian households that night, right? She got her face seen by millions of Brazilians. But unfortunately, he made out Beto. She didn't make it through semi-finals. She got the chat, but she showed zero emotion. So that was also something people noticed that many contestants, especially Brazilians, we were cryers, we're big emotion showers. They do cry and they do show the stress. They do show sadness on stage. But she didn't even the beauty, the beauty queens. They're not taught to like, just smile and wave and they break down. One thing is being trained to do something. The other is doing it with excellence and we're not good at it. I mean, we do praise emotions. We do take emotions really seriously. And that's not frowned upon in Brazil. That's seen as strength. That's why some people raised their eyebrows when she got the word that she had taken the chop and she didn't react. And what did her trainer say? Was he surprised that she didn't make it further? She was shocked. Jean was really convinced that Cat was one of the favorites to end the crown. And he says, "Till this day, she was one of the best contestants he has worked with." So then after this, what did Cat do next? She got on a plane and threw right back to Europe. Never took part in a beauty page. And again, I mean. Until present, of course. What do you think it was about beauty pageants for her? I guess it's sort of easy to think that so much of it is about validation for her, right? But maybe it's about a different form of validation. Maybe maybe the beauty pageant is a very sort of physical representation of the grading of your looks, the physical comparison to your peers, to stand next to someone and be like, "I am physically better than you." I don't know. What do you think? I do think there's an aspect of comparing yourself strictly physically with someone, but there's also something that is, we do respect beauty queens in Brazilian culture is very rooted. In the 1950s and 60s, we had Marta Hoshia, who was our ultimate beauty queen. She was misuniverse. She and she's praised until this day. So I do think it's a form of validation that is more respected than being a runway model, for instance, or a photographic model for sure. So I do think there was something about status there as well. Had she made it, she would have gained recognition and fame with a little more respect than other professions in which women use their beauties or their bodies to work. I would say that winning Miss Universe would be the equivalent of getting in an Academy Award. Wow, interesting. I didn't know that about Brazil. Yeah, it's really respected. I'm Raza Jaffri and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of Dr. AQ Khan, The Spy who sold nuclear secrets to Iran. He was the scientist spy who stole nuclear technology from the Netherlands and used them to give Pakistan a bomb. But he didn't stop there. He became a black market atomic salesman, a fix it man for rogue states seeking nuclear weapons, including Iran, Libya and North Korea. And that left the CIA and MI6 in a race against time to put him out of business. Before the world's most weightward regimes, get hold of the world's most destructive weapons. Follow The Spy Who Now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who sold nuclear secrets to Iran. Early and that free, unordable. Okay, Shiko. So I'm wondering, like, looking back when you made this podcast the first time in Brazil in Portuguese. At what point did you say I have to tell the story of Kat Torres? Because as we learned in the last episode, when you interviewed Leticia Tupinamba, you knew who Kat Torres was because of her meme page, you know, back before you ever thought you would do a story about her. Then you saw her life coach profile. But once the story becomes dark, at what point does a journalist do you say, okay, I'm going to investigate this and I'm going to make a podcast about it. I mean, there's a clear moment in which I decided to story worth investigating, which is when I realized that followers, young women were actually being taken to the US to live with Kat Torres. Because up to this point, she was a joke. I mean, she was a literal joke. She made memes out of her own face with dad jokes. So it was kind of cringy, but I couldn't keep my eyes off of her Facebook page. And then she became this influencer who would show clothes and meditation and the American Dream, which wasn't that much of my interest. We have many of those in Brazil. We have a whole niche of influencers who moved to the US and are somewhat successful there and are portraying that 24/7. So that wasn't quite interesting. But when I realized that what people were talking about on Twitter, on social media, in general, had some truth to it, that she might have trafficked some of her followers to live with her and explored this young woman. I did realize we had a big story there. And that's when I started investigating. Because it sounds like mumble jumble, right? It sounds like internet conspiracy theory. The first time you cure it or you read about it, you're like, no, that's nonsense. Yeah, you're looking at this woman and you're like, her, really? Yeah. And you look at her pulse on Instagram and she's like entering Gucci and buying a glee monogrammed bags and she's like, no, I mean, she's harmless. Until the point I got in touch with Letesia's family and realized these young women were actually missing probably because they had been traffic to the US. And then I was like, no, shica real. This is serious. This deserves deep investigation. And the original version was such a huge hit in Brazil. I mean, congratulations. First off, why do you think this was such a huge story with a Brazilian audience? What about cat story resonated so much with Brazilians? I do think it's the case that resonates a lot because we're 12 and too much on social media. Our virtual living is. excessive, I would say. We're living too much on social media and we're spending too much time on social media and we're lying too much on avatars who are not real people and we're trusting people we should not. So I do think that there's the fact that everyone's on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook depending on your agent where you live, more than they should. So I do think people can connect to a story like this one in which someone you think you know or you think you have some closeness with turns out to do bad things. You know we've talked so much about how much we live online and how much Brazilians live online and in episode one when we in the audience sort of gets to know you you tell us how you became a social media influencer as your journalism career took off and your podcast and your books brought you Instagram followers. All of this is bringing you sponsorships and add opportunities make that money. So I'm curious what was the like to tell the story of the dark side of social media when you yourself are profiting from social media because you're not on the dark side. Let's also make that very clear. There's a dark side of social media. I mean I sort of am let's let's be honest here. I'm part of the problem as well. Is profiting dark? I do think so because I do it from where I stand now and from all the transformations I went through with this investigation. I do think that we're all deceiving someone on social media all the time including me. But you can't put yourself in the same category like there's got to be categories. No, it's not I'm not a criminal but I am for instance this morning I posted a net for a beauty line for a cosmetic company and they paid me good money to start using their products after 38 years of not doing skincare. So they paid me decent money a lot of money to start doing skincare because I was the guy with a wrecked face. I'm the 38 year old who looks 50 and I made a lot of money by just using cosmetics just doing skincare is that fair. I mean I'm not lying to my audience. I'm trying to be as honest as I can but then again I'm not showing the whole part of my life on social media and people do have the perception that I'm they're familiar with me and they're close with me and they know me and they know my family and they know my dogs. So there's a little it's a game of deception. Everyone's playing a game of deception on social media and I include myself in this. Of course I'm not a criminal I'm not trafficking people or anything but I do think that social media is based on deception. In the Brazilian version I do narrate how I had a bad fight with my husband and it was Valentine's Day in Brazil and I fell in pal to post a picture with him because I knew that would bring me likes and that will bring me shares and people would react to it. So I wasn't talking to my husband when I posted a picture of the two of us kissing and I declared my love to him on social media and that was a lie. And I don't think it's only me. I think everyone, I think social media pushes us to show the good sides of our lives even when there's no good side. I want to switch back to Cat for a moment here. Well about you and Cat because throughout the time that we worked on this English version of the podcast, we came really close to doing an interview with Cat in prison. You were in Brazil and there was a time where for maybe five or six weeks every week that we met it was like we might do the interview this Friday or we might hear about the interview this Friday. My happiness Friday and my happiness Friday. And there was a lot of back and forth. Yeah let's share a little bit of what was going on with the interview with Cat and who you were in contact with. So I grew close to Cat's family, her closest friends as well. We've been in touch for over two years now and her lawyers. And I say lawyers and plural because she changed a lot her legal team. That was never changing of lawyers. And every new lawyer would say she's interested in talking. She wants to talk to you, but she's not quite ready because she's not on the right medications. She's still depressed. She's not feeling like herself. She's unable to articulate what she needs to speak correctly. So we would wait and there would be many instances in which she would say okay, next week she's ready to have you in jail. She's ready to meet with you and would have to order a court permission to enter jail because that's how we worked in Brazil. I have to actually ask the judge for authorization to interview someone in the jail when we've done that three or four times. But then when push came to show her defense would always say no she's not ready yet. We have to wait a little longer. So you to mentally we couldn't wait anymore. The series had to be launched, but she did exchange ladders with me. So I was able to reach her, even though I wasn't able to record her voice. And we really tried, you know, for folks to hear from Cat directly, but it didn't happen. I just have two more questions for you. And one is, and I want to make it known for a US audience that we are everybody in the presence of Brazilian podcast Royalty. She co-filled is a master beyond the microphone in Portuguese. And you know, as somebody who did not myself, I did not grow up speaking English. I learned English when I was 15 years old and almost 40. And I feel like I am one person in English and one person in Spanish. I feel like my tone of voice is different. I am more high pitch in English. I am more like low pitch in Spanish. I don't know. I feel I feel this way. And I am sure a lot of people who are bilingual can relate. And I'm wondering if you feel that way. Like now that you've recorded this whole podcast in English and you're doing interviews in English now. Absolutely. Obviously, you, you know, you've spent a lot of time in the US. You're bilingual. But like, what was that experience like for you? I hate the sound of my voice in English. I hate the tone of my voice. I sound dumb and I sound straight in English, which are two things I promise. You sound straight. I mean, I've been told that. I'm not I'm not telling that about. I'm not shining the light upon myself. But I've been told, you sound so straight in English, which is something I'm not. Also, I like you like how I didn't even focus on the fact that you said, I sound dumb in English. I'm like, well, let's forget that. You don't know. I'm like, you sound straight. But I'm kind of dumbish. No, you don't. You don't. It's it's as you said, it's a whole different personality. And I'm trying to get acquainted with it. And I'm trying I'm really trying hard to like it. But it's so hard to like this. No personality. So my last question for you is, and it's actually something that I haven't asked you this whole time that we've been working together, making the series. Okay, now I'm leaving. No, no, no, no, no, don't leave, don't leave. Now that we're totally done with everything, right? Like the series has wrapped. And you have a full understanding, both of Kat's backstory, but also the level of damage that she caused. I'm curious how you see her. How do you see cat Tories? That is a tricky question, because it might sound controversial. And it's hard to articulate it in English, but I do have a ton of respect for her. Because I don't think one might ignore where she came from. And she was miserable. I mean, she came from an abusive family. She was really poor. The odds were not in her favor. The world was playing against her. And she managed to do, how can I put it? She was able to achieve so much what the very little life had given her. Life had given her beauty and she managed to do a lot with it. She was able to fabricate and affair with Leonardo DiCaprio. She was able to be cast in a music video for the fest and furious franchise. She managed to make money in the US. And that's not easy. At the same time, of course, it's very reprehensible what she has done with that power. She achieved. And I do think she needs to be held accountable for the crime she committed. And I do think that story should be told as a cautionary tale. I don't respect what she's done, but I respect her path to getting what she got. Interesting. That's why I find her a fascinating character, a fascinating person. A flawed, fascinating character, I would say. A flawed, fascinating person, deeply flawed, fascinating person. Well, thank you. She go for letting me sort of flip the microphone and put it on you this time. It's been a pleasure. It's so much easier being on the other side of the screen. From under you, this is Don Croscat. Don Croscat is hosted and reported by me, Shikofeliki. Senior producer is Fernando Chabari, who just heard. Cabaíero, associate producers Argio vana-Homanus Anches and Otave Bonfa, team song by Mariana Romano, mixing by Stephanie LeBone and Jay-Jay Kerubin. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Villalpondo, project manager is Nancy Torillo and supervising Senior Production Manager is Jessica Ellis. Managing producer is Heather Baloga, development producer is Olivia Weber, Senior Development Editor is Rachel B. Doyle, production services by Futuro Studios. Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Lewy and Jen Sarge. I'm Leon Nefak, best known as the co-creator of Slow Burn and Fiasco. I had of course heard of OnlyFans, but always with a distant and quiet skepticism, a silent judgment you might say. Who is actually using this platform? Um, I am. Hi, I'm OnlyFans creator and comedian Gracie Canan. My journalistic curiosity got the best of me when I found out that my own sister had started at OnlyFans account. I'm not a sister, just a clarify. It turns out a lot of what I thought I knew about OnlyFans was wrong. I felt like I wasted 3.5 years for something that wasn't real. What happens when connection comes with a price tag? Listen to OnlyFans to see wherever you get your podcasts or binge all episodes of OnlyFans to see ad free right now only on Audible. Start your Audible subscription in the Audible app or on Apple podcasts.