The LOST Knowledge of Advanced Civilizations | Hugh Newman

12,000 years ago, humans built something that should not have been possible. Before the pyramids and before Stonehenge, ancient humans were constructing massive stone temples with astonishing precision. We were told that people at this time couldn't build structures like this, but this discovery rewrote history, and we still don't fully understand why they built it. Today, we're joined by Hugh Newman, author, documentarian, and world explorer in order to uncover the secrets of humanity's forgotten past. And at one of these sites, Hugh and his partner witnessed something extraordinary. Sunlight passing through ancient stone pillars, illuminating a carved face on the winter solstice. Perhaps some evidence of advanced understanding of the cosmos. But that's just the beginning. Strange magnetic anomalies, mysterious rituals, and monuments deliberately buried underneath the earth raise a lot of unsettling questions. Is it possible that our ancestors possessed ancient knowledge that has since been lost? Well, if you are fascinated by lost civilizations, ancient mysteries, and forgotten knowledge, well, you're in the right place. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. Hugh Newman, how are you? I'm very good, thanks. Thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited to talk to you. This is a topic, your area of expertise, your field of research, is one of my favorite things to talk about. Cool. It's like truly, like, it gets me excited. It wakes me up in the morning. I'm like, oh man, I cannot wait to learn about ancient history, ancient civilizations, and of course, the megaliths that have preceded our society for so many years. Now, today, we're going to talk about Stonehenge. We're going to talk about the pyramids. We're going to talk about Machu Picchu. We're going to talk about ancient civilizations and perhaps the idea that these pre-Ugrarian civilizations were more, you know, civilized and technologically advanced than mainstream archaeology gives them credit for. We're going to talk about giants and the Nephilim. We're going to talk about the Anunnaki and the Watchers. But I think in order to start the whole conversation, we got to go to Turkey, to a little place called Gobekli Tepe. So, can you just explain to the people your work, what you do, sort of in brief, and what Gobekli Tepe is? Well, Gobekli Tepe is one of the largest megalithic sites in the world. It's huge. People don't realize this. It has the equivalent, of like 21 stone circles within its hilltop kind of area. And the area that's been excavated so far is just a few of these enclosures, which are really stone circle. They're like roughly 12 pillars, T-shaped, with two giant ones in the middle, up to 18 feet tall. Some are 60 feet wide and they have different geometries, different features. Some are carved from bedrock. Some have a terrazzo-like cement on their floor. Some are carved from stone. And they've beautiful 3D relief carvings all over them. But just to put it in perspective, it's actually a much larger area than you might realize. I mean, this is actually a GPR scan that was done some years ago. That's ground penetrating radar? Yes. And basically it's showing this huge area still to be excavated. In fact, they've just started excavating here as we speak. Like this season, 2026, they've started a bit more. And so you actually get a sense of this area, just here actually. And this is just to the north of where the main enclosures are. And so they're going to find a whole load of more of these enclosures. So basically when Klaus Schmidt, who was the original excavator, who died a few years ago, he concluded there must be at least 21 of these stone circles in one site. But the problem is Quebec-Litepa is just one of many. There's now at least 12 more of these sites in what's become known as the Tastepela culture, or Tastepela basically means. Stone hills, or kind of sacred stone hills of this kind of region. And there's a whole lot more going on there than people realize. You can see all the other ones here. But the thing about Quebec-Litepa that people don't realize is that it's 9,600 BC. So right at the end of the last ice age, and out of nowhere, it seems, these gigantic megalithic structures were being constructed, not just like stone circles like you get in Britain, where you get rough-hewn stones piled in circles and things like this. These were beautifully created, intricately carved with 3D reliefs on them, with this abstract imagery and anthropomorphic figures that just shouldn't exist back then. There's no kind of precedent for it, really. It's really hard to find anything before that, that kind of suggests that leads up to this point of sophistication. So paint the picture of why it's so significant. Because we've seen, you know, the pyramids of Giza. They're beautiful. We see Stonehenge. These are massive rocks. How do they get them up that high? But both of those are ancient, ancient, right? So why is a stone circle out in Turkey? Why is that more interesting to you and to other archaeologists compared to pyramids of Giza or something like that? I think what's so astonishing about this is the fact that you have such sophistication at such an early date. So what's the timeline here? We're talking 9,600 BC until around 8,000 BC. So pyramids of Giza would be roughly. Well, if we go in from the earliest phase of Quebec-Litepé, we're talking 6,000 to 7,000 years later. So when they were building the pyramids, when they were building Stonehenge, which is roughly the same time, these were ancient and had been forgotten for thousands of years. So if the pyramid builders of Egypt were building the pyramids and they came across this by happenstance, they would be like, whoa, look at these pyramids. You know, they would basically look at it the way we might look at the pyramids. They'd be like, these are ancient, ancient structures. I mean, that's what's so astonishing about these sites. It's like a whole other step back in time. It just goes way further back than anything like this was supposed to exist. And now the general kind of timeline for agrarian societies, for, you know, planting crops, where does that put us roughly? Well, so we've got like, so you've got Quebec-Litepé, that's like 9,600 BC. And that went on with the other sites in the region for about 1,500 years until around 8,000 BC. And the whole Neolithic revolution kicked off. Within a few hundred years of the first stones going into Quebec-Litepé. And so they thought it was the other way around. For a long time, it was thought that the agricultural revolution, which actually kicked off in this area, just north of here at Caracadar Mountain, which is like the sacred mountain of the area. But now it's the other way around. The structures came first, the megaliths came first, and then later agriculture developed. I mean, even at Quebec-Litepé, there's no evidence of domesticated crops. So they weren't, they were kind of going out, they were picking what was available and using that rather than growing it themselves. That only came later. So some people have suggested that this was like a kind of the end of an era, the end of the Paleolithic era, bringing all the knowledge they had, they collected over these tens of thousands of years, and constructing it into these sites and monumentalizing it for the first time. So there is a kind of weird connection with the whole agricultural revolution because in this direction, there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. It's not a direct area, but it came afterwards. It came towards the end. It kind of got developed during the era of Quebec-Litepé. And I've got some ideas about that because we've got evidence of like things like magnetism taking place there, incredible innovations, you know, when it comes to like, I mean, they were even brewing beer, you know, or beer gruel, not exactly the tastiest. It wasn't a pilsner. No, not quite. But, you know, they were experimenting with that. And there's evidence as well, I think, there's in the symbology, and you can tell by the kind of animals they had that they were taking or using mushrooms, you know, things like this. So there's like this possible psychedelic revolution taking place at this time. And I really believe, and so does my partner and co-author JJ Ainsworth, that we can now trace back various different peoples into a much earlier phases from either Paleolithic Europe, from the Russian steppe coming up from the Tertuffians, even coming down, people coming down from the Black Sea. There's evidence of all these skill sets and these different kind of genetics coming into this one area. And at 9,600 BC, it just exploded. This like huge era of innovation just suddenly took place. Wow. It's like a civilization formed almost out of nothing. Right. And I think one of the things that helps me contextualize why this place is so significant, kind of like you said, the historical written archaeological research, the record for, you know, the last couple hundred years was you had these hunter-gatherers, they were walking around, they were eating some fruits, you know, hunting some animals, got some spears, but they were living as these nomadic peoples, and they were never like actually settled in a place. And so they had a very specific kind of culture. And then as time goes on, we develop agriculture, we're able to actually farm these like fertile kind of river valleys and things like that. And then from the agricultural boom, we're now able to stay in one place. And because we're able to stay in one place, we can support a much larger population because we can build more things. And then you get things like the pyramids of Giza and all these other great megaliths that come out of the invention of agriculture. But what this site proves is that that's backwards. You have these nomadic hunter-gatherer people building these massive sophisticated structures with some type of very specific intent, whether it's ritual, spiritual, astronomical, technological, whatever it may be. And then they develop agriculture after. And that even just like from the mainstream archeological perspective, completely rewrites what we understand about the technology and sophistication of ancient pre-agrarian peoples. Now, let's go into the place. So we're sitting in there, okay? Imagine you're in this ancient, ancient megalith. And then all of a sudden you see a face that's carved into a stone structure. And it's unmistakably a face. It's built by hand by these people, 10,000 BC, ancient, ancient people. And then on one day out of the year, the sun comes down and blasts it and just lights it up. And you look at your partner and you go, holy shit, what is this? You discovered that perhaps this place was used as some type of astronomical calendar. Take me to that moment and what exactly you discovered and how. Well, actually the site we're talking about now is one of the other sites in the region. It's become very famous now. It's become one of the most important ones, basically. They're turning it into a site. It's a site that's been used for a long time. It's been used for a long time. It's a proper archaeological site with visitor center tickets and buses and all this kind of stuff. It's all in the process as we speak. But this is what it looked like before 2019. It's a pile of rocks. This is, it just looked like a kind of a mountaintop with rocks piled up. There's a bunch of us up there, but this is back in 2018, but I've been visiting here since 2014. So, you know, to put it in context before we get into, you know, this illumination that we witnessed on this site, this is what it looks like now. If you look at it, slightly different. They've uncovered a huge amount, much more than we ever could have imagined. Seriously, we couldn't quite believe what we were seeing when we first visited there after excavation began and the first time you were allowed to go there in 2021 or COVID and all that kind of stuff. And so this is on par with Quebecly Tepe. There's some very interesting odd features, like you have these rock cut features here. The one with the pillars in, we're going to talk about because that's where the incredible illumination takes place. But much of this is carved from bedrock. So they were just cutting straight into limestone, creating these giant enclosures and these very unusual features like this place here, which has become known as the Pillar Shrine. Officially it's structure AB. There's lots of kind of boring archeological names. I hate the way they name it. They're like Pillar 42. I know. I'm like, call it something awesome. The Lion Pillar. So Andrew Collins came up with the Pillar Shrine, which I thought was kind of cool. Yeah. I think we'll go with that. Some people call it the penis pit or something weird because these are all phallic shapes. So I don't like that name. I love that name. We can disagree. Okay. You can use that. Yeah. You can sort of overdub me in the edit if you want. It's up to you. But this is interesting. So this is like 18 feet wide. You've got these four to five foot tall pillars within it. And then this head sticking out of the wall, which is even more strange, this one here. And this is basically what we witnessed. When we turned up there on December the 20th, 2021. And this is the winter solstice. This is the most extreme point of the solar year with the sun's in its most southerly position on the horizon where it rises. And we witnessed this light coming through this porthole stone on the left, hitting that stone head. And we were like, what on earth is this? And the only reason we got to see this is a series of synchronicities and serendipitous events leading up to this point, including getting in trouble with the authorities, which is something I seem to be an expert at, much to JJ's non-delight. And so I went there the day before just to have a quick look at it. JJ couldn't come. So we thought we'd just check it out. We'll go and meet Ishmael. He's like the main, his family owned the land and their father kind of gave us permission since 2014 to go in there. And he said, yeah, yeah, you can fly the drone. So I flew my drone, got some cool shots. Then it got seen by some of the military guys that work there because, you know, these archeological sites become like military zones. So you can't really fly drones. The government comes and kind of like takes- Yeah. Yeah. Kind of fences it off. This is just started happening. Me and Ishmael weren't sure we flew it and then we both got in trouble for it kind of thing. And then JJ hadn't seen the site yet. So she wanted to come the next day, which would be the winter solstice. We weren't planning to go in the morning. We're just going to go whenever we could, you know, it's nice sunny weather, everything else. Hey, real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed. When you subscribe, you help the channel grow and you stay in the loop with every new drop. Religion camp, history camp, and camp Gagnon. Now let's get back to it. Were you planning to go on the solstice because it's such a significant date for megaliths? Kind of. Yeah. But we weren't expecting to see much. We didn't think we were going to discover anything. We just, our kind of timeline, our kind of free time ended up, that's when we could go. We thought it'd be interesting to go then, you know, just to, because we know Andrew Collins has suggested there could be solstice stuff because he, he discovered a possible other kind of alignment and we kind of kept looking into it. So, so we ended up, we were told we have to go first thing in the morning the next day because the authorities are coming in at 11am or 10am. So we have to come before then. So we're like, shit. Okay. So we got up early, got up when it was dark and we got there for sunrise, basically walked up the hill and this is what we saw. And this is like, you know, we thought nothing of it at the time. I thought, well, that's strange. There's a bit of light going on the face, you know, whatever. But that face is carved out of bedrock. This whole thing is carved out of bedrock. This isn't like a installation. They're not moving stones from somewhere. No, no, no. This is literally all carved out of bedrock. It's a lot of manpower to build that. And this is just one small part of the site, but that's what's so interesting because it's carved out of bedrock. It's a permanent fixture. It's not something that could be moved about and changed. That's what, that's, that's what kind of got us as well. And then that face, which is like this big, it's three times the size of my head. It's just carved out of the wall. It's got like this serpent scales coming up its neck. And it's like, I've never seen anything like it. You know what I mean? Especially something of this age. If this was a couple of thousand years old, I'd be impressed, but this is nearly 12,000 years old. This is what's so strange. And once again, we were told if you ever took a history class, these people couldn't do this. Exactly. They didn't have the skills or technology to do this. This is exactly. And then, so, and then we, while we were there, we kind of did a bit more research. I mean, this is how the light comes in. You know, it kind of comes in through here, 10 minutes after sunrise, it kicks in, everything kind of starts aligning. It's not the most obvious kind of thing. It's going through a very specific porthole. Yeah. And it has to go through also the lights to go through this main enclosure in between two large T pillars as well have now fallen. And so that kind of made it quite interesting. And then if you look at it from this perspective, this is for 45 minutes, as the sun's rising at this angle, kind of going up in the sun. The sky, it kind of, the light comes in with kind of, you know, the opposite way when it hits the head and it moves around the head like this. Wow. And then finishes down in the scales of the neck. And we're like, what the hell? No, Hugh, I'm going to ruin your theory here. Okay. It's not perfectly illuminating the face, right? Your whole theory is, is, is bonked because it's not actually hitting directly on the face. That is one of the, that is one of the, that is one of the skeptical kind of ideas I've been kind of thinking about. And I think it's interesting because if you go back to 9,400 BC, when this was constructed, what do you say? Allegedly, it would have been a slightly different position of the sun. In fact, I've probably got an image of it here somewhere. No, I don't think I do yet. In fact, in that small image there, you can see like the position of the sun would have been slightly further, like one degree away from where it is now, which is about sun's width, not much, tiny amount. And this is because of something called the obliquity of the ecliptic. Then you get a little bit more of the face would be illuminated just a little bit more. I mean, I'm not saying this is like perfect. No, it wouldn't have been like, not even 9,000 years ago, perfect illumination. But I just find it fascinating that you can go there now. I mean, this is actually a time lapse. If you look at the head, you can see this is speeded up somewhat. Wow. But even so, for it to get through, like you see how thin it is when it starts, it's like a blade of light. And it's blasting through like so many different pillars and portholes. Yeah. And it's coming through that at a sharp angle. It's coming through the hole at a really sharp angle. And so it basically, it must be designed for it. You can't really deny. I find it odd that it finishes on the scales. Yeah. It's almost like it's swallowing the light or something. Yes. That's one of the kind of ideas. And then 9,000 years ago, it would have been even more illuminated on the face, coming more across the front. Just a fraction more. Yeah. Just a slight bit more. I assumed it was going to be more, to be honest. But even so, it's like, you know, we did some statistical analysis on this and we got it, it's like, you know, you know, at least 3 million to 1 chance. It can't be, you know, it's no way you can kind of, you know, this isn't a chance occurrence. You don't align things like this by chance. It's just too much. You can kind of look at, I did this all on ChatGBT, but I'm actually part of now of this 15 month academic archaeoastronomy course that I'm on, run by the Skyscape Academy in Britain. And they're academics and archaeologists running it. And I'm doing this as my project. And we're now doing proper statistical analysis. We're getting proper data. We're laying it all out. We're going to hopefully get it published academically because a lot of people, even though I find so fascinating, you can go to the site on the witness sources, like I've done three times over the last few years, and you can witness it yourself. It's there and it happens and you can watch it with your own eyes. It must be remarkable. But people still deny it exists. How? Exactly. But you just showed me a video of it. I know. I've showed a video. We can dispute whether it's intentional or whatever, but you can't deny that the light's hitting it. No, no. I think that's it. It's all about intentionality. You know, And this is something that I've come across. I'm not an academic myself, but I kind of have a step in that world because we organize conferences, we invite academics. I know many archaeologists and I try and work with the archaeologists out here to the best of my ability, but they don't really like us for various reasons. And I don't know why. I mean, we're very nice, as you know, very nice people. And so we've done a lot of background work on this as well. We've kind of looked into it and we've actually reconstructed the site. I'm using 3D modeling and this is Kevin Esslinger. I want to give him some credit and he's reconstructed. He's been working with me on this carefully and we've actually put the night sky in using Stellarium from 9000 or so BC and we move the sun as it should move. It's all precisely the data is correct and with all and he gets all the shadows and everything with this and we get we get a remarkable result with this as well. Now, just for speculation's sake. How far back? Would we have to go for it to come across like perfectly to illuminate the entire face? This is my assumption that they're trying to eliminate the entire face. That might not be the purpose at all, but if we were to go back like 50,000 years. That's a good point. That is a good point. I mean, crazy hypothetical site is 50,000 years old because like, because it's bedrock, you know, I think there was some kind of natural feature there and there was a natural hole maybe, and there was a natural Rocky. So. Nub that came out that was like became the head and they were like, bang, this works. And so it could have been observed. Something could have been observed long before 9400 BC, which this site is dated to quite possibly that is quite possible. Now we are going to trace that back. We're going to go further back in time, but we're stuck with the dates we know of, you know, for kind of, you know, academic reasons, you start pushing the dates back, you get ridiculed even more, but you never know. That's the thing. You know, you never know with this stuff because in some places they haven't gone down to the bedrock, but other sites in the region, they're getting dates going back 14,000 years and so, you know, it's a bit older than some of the sites we're looking at, especially when you go further south to the Natufian sites, but what's up, I just find this so fascinating that even with a reconstruction and now they're one of the other things which we get kind of harassed about quite a lot, they claim since this really kind of, you made this discovery. The archaeologists are really pushing the claim that the site used to have roofs in ancient times because some early structures in other areas of the Natufian structures may have had roofs. So we recreated a roof over it. We actually kind of worked with Kevin. He works with all these different Native American roof construction designs. He looked at some of the designs from the Natufians and things like this. And we found that even with that. Yeah. It still comes between the gaps of the poles, even with a thatched roof, even with just a window of that size in that position, and it would be between the pillars, sorry, between the poles, it would still come through because you only need a small section of sky for it to function. And so we think we've kind of got it, you know, we've got it down, but we have to get this course finished. I have to get this academic paper published, get it possibly peer reviewed. Yeah. So that's going to be interesting. So we could get, it could, you know, they could try and prove us wrong, but at the same time, the fact you can witness it yourself, I think gives it some clout. Yeah. Now people might look at this and say, okay, we've got a megalithic structure, way older than we thought, you know, hunter gatherers could do. And it's lining up with a winter solstice. It's pretty cool, but it's not unheard of. I've been to Newgrange and right on the winter solstice, it just perfectly, they blast right through. Maybe it's the summer solstice. I can't remember. It's winter solstice. It's winter. It blasts right through the front door and you get just like illuminates this entire, like sort of stony hut kind of thing. It's a remarkable site. People go there and they charge up their crystals and all sorts of stuff. It's a crazy moment. Do you have a friend that buys gold instead of crypto because he doesn't trust the internet? That's a power move. Do you got a buddy that has like a backup generator and a bunch of canned food and somehow knows that a blackout's coming before the power company does? That's a power move. And do you have a friend that hired Morgan & Morgan? Well, guess what? That's a power move. Yep. Morgan & Morgan is amazing. It's America's largest injury law firm with over a hundred offices nationwide and over a thousand lawyers. They've recovered over $30 billion for more than 500,000 clients. In Florida, they secured a $644 million verdict after the defense argued that the victim and his wife should get nothing. That is a power move. So if you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. And their fee is free unless they win. Go to ForThePeople.com slash Gagnon or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone. That is ForThePeople.com slash Gagnon. This is a paid advertisement. So why is it so significant that this site has these kind of astrological alignments? Well, I think what we're looking at here is just the age of it and the kind of the strangeness of this layout of this particular site. You know, the way this kind of you have this these pillars, you have this pit. It's all carved from bedrock. You have this head coming out. There's nothing. There's nothing like this anywhere on the planet. Newgrange is fascinating, but that only dates to 3200 BC or thereabouts. And that is, you know, 6,000 years younger than Carahant Tepe, at least. And so that's what makes it so strange because Newgrange really is what is thought to be one of the oldest solstice aligned sites on the planet. But now we have this, which has pushed it way back. And so then we have to look at the culture. You know, we have to look at the testing. And this is what I've been questioned about. I was actually discussing this with Dr. Lee Clare, who's the head archaeologist at Quebecly Tepe. And he said, look, he doesn't dislike this winter solstice alignment. That's the best I could get out of him. But he says there's no context for it. There needs to be other sites. There needs to be symbolism. There needs to be something that kind of would suggest that they were working with the solstices. Because otherwise. It's just a kind of random occurrence, and it may not have the backing it requires. So that's something we're interested in. But the problem is only 5% to 10% of these sites have been excavated. So we're waiting. So I say, okay, that's great. That's great. That's great. Why don't you go and excavate more of the sites then? Come on, get on with it. Then we'll see if there's anything else that backs this up. Now, we have found possible alignments at Quebecly Tepe. We have found possible suggestions. Ones at other sites as well, but nothing like this. I mean, the thing about this is that it's pretty solid. You can't kind of deny it because you can witness it yourself. I mean, even at Newgrange, even at Stonehenge on the summer solstice, the illumination, the phenomenon isn't as impressive as this because you have an actual object being lit up through a hold stone. But it's a bit like Newgrange, but you've got something that's being lit up very specifically. Whereas Newgrange, it just goes through. It kind of leads through the passage towards the back of the chamber and then hits a wall and there's nothing else. And maybe they had something there in antiquity, some type of shrine or something, but nothing there we can see. There probably was something there, but it's not there now. That's the problem. And the good thing about this, they very kindly carved it into bedrock. And then at the end of the culture, the end of the whole task, all the sites, they buried them, 8,000 BC thereabouts. Intentionally buried? Yes. Really? There is a debate about this. We can talk about, but generally, yes. I mean, there was an analysis done on Karahan Tepe specifically by Professor Neshmi Karal. He's the head archaeologist there. He's the head of the Taztepla project. And they found that, and this is actually a published paper he put out, that Karahan Tepe was deliberately buried. It was filled in. It was like partly reconstructed and repaired. Other parts were deliberately broken, smashed, then covered up. But this particular area here. The pillar shrine itself was not damaged at all. It was actually kind of preserved, very carefully filled in and covered up, even with large stones, flagstones over the top. And so you have to question, why would they do that? Why would they preserve, kind of almost like repair this part? But other parts of the site were kind of broken, pushed over and damaged. And to me, I think they were saying, look, this is what we could do back then. This is what this was for. So we're going to do this. We're going to cover it up now. We're going to keep it pristine. So when future generations come, they're going to know what it's about. You think it was a time capsule? I think so. I really do. And I think a lot of these sites were, because they're reconstructing them. Like Quebecli Tepe, clearly some of the pillars were kind of propped back up. Then the fill was put in around them to keep them in place. Oh, really? Yeah. Like there was a break and then a reconstruction and then a fill in. Well, you think about it, right? So you've got like. Like 1,500 years at least of this culture. So we're talking about the same people from what? 5, 600 AD beginning it, if we're looking at today's date. So how connected are we to people from 500 AD? Quite far. It's quite far away. There's no connection there. So you can have generations over time just losing, you know, losing contact with what they were doing back then. So by the end of it, they might have thought, well, look, this is obviously not going to something special, we need to preserve this because this is something thing profound and i think the winter solstice thing here for instance i think they're going to find more more things like this this is we we got lucky with this one and there's excavations going on right now it's happening now as we sit here and talk this is literally happening now digging around i've actually got some uh quite concerning photos of what's happening um you know when it comes to that what do you mean concerning well they're they're building this roof over it um this is actually what the roof's going to look like something like this was actually this design has now come forth as well which looks terrible to me that one does this one looks a bit cooler uh and this is for preservation sake this is camera hands up but this is for preservation yeah like they're kind of doing this problem is that they're building they're digging out all these big holes around the edge and this is what it looks like today which is really disturbing but and why is this disturbing well because there's a lot i feel like this damage is potentially going to take place if they're not careful um this kind of concerns me somewhat um but at the same time these are professional people doing this so hopefully isn't there's going to be no damage they're going to do it properly and there'll still be access and things like this but they're building this big visitor center as well uh nearby and this is actually behind that is another part of the site called ketchley tepe which is actually the original name of carahan tepe funnily enough they changed the name of it because do you want to know what carahan tepe translates that you what is it i think you'll like it it's called hill of the dark lord proper metal in it wow why that well they gave that name to it in 1997 this is a professor bahatin selic who's a local archaeologist because there was looters going there and trying to dig it up and things like this so they changed the name to confuse them basically but ketchley tepe was the first names k-e-c-i-l-i and andrew collins noted this is what they call this hill now it's another hill in the area they noted that that's got a feminine name that's got like keck like k-e-c it's like a feminine root like it kind of kind of means queen uh it can mean maiden it can mean priestess mother something like this and it's interesting because gobekli tepe has a kind of name that refers back to the navel like the kind of pregnant belly so there's like this fertility aspect to these sites i think and that was part of the ritualistic nature of it in my in mine and jj's opinion going way way back is that the original name like how did they come to these names go back like who named them well i don't know yeah they don't know if ketchley was an original name right but somehow a lot of these sites seem to preserve something you know this they kind of just maintain the some kind of meaning about what the hill is it's like a memory thing based off ancient kind of stories yeah i think so yeah so we're not we don't know if ketchley was used many thousands of years ago or even hundreds of years ago but maybe we just don't know but it's interesting that when you kind of decode the names you find some really interesting things interesting so as far as the the the pit of pillars so to speak the the pillar shrine yeah is that the term that was yeah it's coined what i mean first off how like just shovels like sticks like what kind of tools do they have to dig into bedrock to carve these things out not a lot really i mean antler picks obsidian flint things like this you get this kind of most of these in this area flint i mean obsidian has to come in from further west or sorry further west and then you have to dig into bedrock and then you have to dig into the east like bingo mountain places like this i mean how far is that a few hundred miles away so it's not unthinkable to know that they would be over there maybe trading with people in the region yeah the the intricate stonework i think has to be finished with obsidian it really does because obsidian is kind of hard but it breaks like glass you know like black glass but um but this i this is so weird like i cannot like why like it doesn't seem like it seems somewhat organized but it sort of just seems like a bunch in a stack so you've got the channel going in there right now and you're in there as well like it's almost like a serpent head you know then then even the right hand side of this main enclosure is carved out of bedrock as well so it's like a slope going up yeah but there's is there there's no prevailing theories to like what tools were used well they think they use antler picks flint obsidian and whatever they could get their hands on basically but you could limestone you can chip away at it you know i mean how many years or how many men it's going to take a long time to do this because as more gets uncovered it's like my god it's going to i mean i think it's some kind of ritualistic process as well and now was the area as so rich in wildlife and natural growing foods that they could have subsisted in this area for a long time yes back then at the end of the last ice age going into around 9800 bc onwards it was lusher it was greener after the ice age when the weather improved um more animals were you know frolicking around everywhere there was plants everywhere there were trees not not big forests as such but there were trees uh and uh areas not water was the issue because there's not much water at either carahan tepe or gobekli tepe but we do have the euphrates running through this region you know how far uh not yeah a few a good few miles away like 20 30 miles away the closest areas so you could maybe carry some jugs of water yeah but they did have um streams running through it they had that in the haram plain which is nearby but but in chanlerfa which is only half a day's walk from gobekli tepe eight kilometers they had flowing rivers springs and everything else it's just at these particular sites they didn't there was no natural water source which is so strange so what they did was they carved out these quite large bell-shaped bedrock chambers to actually kind of retreat you know actually get the water you know collect it in them i've actually got a couple of images here like uh yeah rainfall reservoirs because this is actually up on the other hill the northern hill that's called collect catchly tepe now and so you have these you have these covers with these holes in then you have these bell-shaped chambers so they're like wells yeah pretty much and they collect water and somehow they kind of um you know don't leak as such and then you have lots of other caves up there as well interestingly um on that particular hill i mean just remarkable yeah and so what is the prevailing thought for what these were used for like what if i were to ask like you know the lead archaeologist you know what would he say this was used for are you talking about just carahan tepe yeah as such like what was their site used for okay so you got you have to look at the phases of it i think you can't just explain it in one kind of foul swoop the archaeologists will say it's a settlement and these were these were buildings just used for community gatherings and there were lots of houses built within them that's what they say that is it community gathering but it's like a conference center yeah but you have structures like this this is the another huge enclosure on the top of the hill and this is what 60 feet wide this wasn't used for you know living in this was a major ceremonial space so i think they were they were built as sacred sites originally they were you they were used as i believe they were temples i mean there's a big debate about that word you know whether these were temples or not that's what klaus schmidt used to call them the archaeologist who passed away now they call them communal buildings or special buildings just to make them sound more boring than they really were so i think there were major kind of rituals there were dances there was um initiations taking place and when you start looking at the symbolism it's almost like it was a teaching space like a memory space where you would have like these high level teachers and almost like a priestly elite if you want to call it that but they would teach the different groups different age groups different things and they were being cut all the information was being cut and they were being cut all the information encoded on the stones and the pillars the geometry and everything else and then i think these became so popular that people started building smaller structures around them and you can you can see these being built these smaller kind of square structures behind the main ones and they became like settlements over time and then they just got really busy and they got crazy it's too many people there basically how many people you think at the peak well if you look at quebec li tepe it's huge you know and i think well carrie and tepe is just as big to be honest with you i mean we're talking potentially hundreds of people maybe a thousand i don't know i mean they archaeologists suggest two to three hundred something like that at his peak but then it got a bit crazy because then you know quebec li tepe for instance things started collapsing in you know they were built so much and on the slopes going up around the main enclosures where the kind of cool stuff was happening they would like cave in there's also earthquake zone as well which is was there was one a few years ago which actually shook quebec li tepe people felt it when they were there wow so we know in that was based from gaziantep which is a couple of hundred miles away now for the guy listening it's like 300 people's not that much you know if you went to a town of 300 people in america you'd be like this is a ghost town there's nothing going on yeah but there were more there were more sites that's the thing right it's like at least 12 of these sites and potentially up to 60. this is what there's some of some of the estimates are and then even for for hunter-gatherers i mean to have more than a hundred is a pretty big trial well i think there was more than more than that at the peak right i think for for context the average hunter-gatherer tribe is going to be maybe like 100 or something so for these hunter-gatherers to have a complex ritual structure plus domiciles yeah subsisting a village of a couple hundred people is again mind-boggling for the archaeological record yeah i believe so yeah and i think you have to you have to kind of trace this back even further than this that there are known hunter-gatherer groups that have been talked about this is now coming back more into kind of people's consciousness that they were quite sophisticated and they were there were secret societies within hunter-gatherer groups and the the elite leaders who were like the shamans or the kind of priestly elite or whatever you want to call them they would be the ones kind of in charge but also the ones that had the astronomical knowledge they had the knowledge of the geometry they have the knowledge of you know where to go hunting and things like this and i think that that was prevalent there and i think that you could grow groups if they had this what's called complex hunter-gatherers there's different types of hunter-gatherers but these were clearly complex hunter-gatherers this is the name that's been given to them right this was work done um by various researchers actually over the years um brian hayden is one of them he wrote a lot about this um he's put a lot of their a lot of this is sort of in kind of academic papers paywalls and things like that you have to get through to get access to this but what they found was when they studied the anthropological data of hunter-gatherer groups over the last few hundred years they were able to project that onto hunter-gatherer groups going back deep into the past and they found lots of astronomy lots of solstice orientations lots of very accurate calendrical readings following the moon cycles even constellations you know linking with different animals and things like this going back up to 40 000 years in some cases like the paleolithic caves of europe and so that blew my mind when i found all that out because some of these paleolithic caves are even aligned to solstices they're like chosen because their entrances if i can show you a couple of images of this because it's pretty mind-blowing i think it's obvious why the these solstice calendars are helpful to agrarian societies because hey when the you know when the weather is like this when we're in this season that means you got to plant crops when it's in this season you got to harvest crops when it's in this season there's going to be a lot of rain etc etc and it keeps you lined up so you can harvest and if you have a good harvest you can have more people your society continues so it is the prevailing technology that protects you and everyone you've ever loved but for a hunter-gatherer group yes why is a solstice alignment so important that's this is the one of the things that kind of really has confused a lot of people over over the over the years and i think brian hayden's kind of nailed it when he was looking at sites like lascal cave in in uh in france which i visited last year with my family and but this is what is so interesting so they're going to great efforts to choose cave entrances that are aligned to either the solstice sunrises or sunsets or the equinox sunrise or sunsets i mean they're choosing the right caves so that so like with new grains it will come through this avenue and it will illuminate a kind of painting at the back which is actually exactly what we get here at lascal wow we actually get this has all been properly analyzed as well um by the various various french researchers which really blew my mind i mean i've got to thank martin sweatman um and a couple of his alistair coombs for kind of introducing me to this research because this really got me so that's the thing i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do and i think it's a really good thing to do so no way were they growing food back then and they weren't even growing food at carahan tepe or gobekli tepe so what they realized is is that these were for feasts these were for big meetings ceremonies initiations like i said i think was going on at carahan tepe the same principles so they were kind of but they had to kind of time everything correctly because you know to make sure when to pick the food when to hunt the animals you have to still have to know a rough calendar right and we know that they were studying calendars because you have people like alexander marshak who were finding these bone plaques coming out of the paleolithic caves of europe with detailed movements of the moon even eclipse cycles things like this and like then then then kind of clicking in with the solstices as well and so it gets more and more astonishing the more you kind of um realize how old this is 18 000 bc at least some of these are some are older some are so look i mean i mean when did the ice age end we're not till about 12 000 years ago so these people are maybe mid this is in the ice age yeah yeah living in a cave yeah hunting mammoths or something yeah and putting these bones or this this lunar calendar into a bone giving it to his son being like hey you're gonna need this because this tells you when the animals are coming through and which animals you're going to be hunting for depending on the seasons or something to that effect something to but it's also but it's not just not practical some of it just isn't practical knowledge it's like to do with when to have the big feasts when to have the big meetings when to have the initiations when to have the ceremonies in fact you know according to the research by brian hayden he suggests that there was like a kind of competition between different tribal leaders and different groups as to what date the solstice would be on because sometimes there'd be a day out or a day after and things like even like it is now that the date slightly changes depending on you know the cycle and so that and they were so focused on it they really wanted that to be so much so that these are just the caves in france in the dordogne valley of france and these are all aligned to different areas to different areas of the sky and the solstice and equinoxes and so this is what's that that really got me because even though this isn't the same as karahan tepe the principles are still the same so we know that's i find that really intriguing and one of the other things is interesting to me is like coming down from siberia there's a clear route of some of the origin the first people of quebec li tepe came down from siberia this is work of andrew collins now academics are now saying the same thing because of the microblade technology they kind of analyzed it and noticed the similarities and different times coming from 40 000 years ago all the way down to 12 000 years ago and even the people of siberia were doing the same thing in the ice age they were studying the solstices they were studying the movements of the heavens and recording it in great detail and so when it so when they got to karahan tepe they knew what to do like obviously we need to know what the solstice is yeah so they knew what to do so they probably utilized they probably you know eventually found this spot that had this kind of unusual features that they could work with to create you know the illumination of the head right and so that's that's the way we're seeing it now i've heard that it's also potentially helpful in warfare quite quite possibly yeah i've heard that you know if let's say you're trying to attack like an enemy tribe some other type of group somewhere if you are able to coordinate your attack with a rainy season and you're equipped for the rain and they might be a little bit behind on their calendar maybe they don't have as good of technology yeah you can easily dominate them and you say hey we can come through because we know there's gonna be a flood period we'll be able to get there because this you know like river you know delta will be flooded we can get across it gives some type of technological advantage to warfare and so i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and so if you're able to have these alignments not only for the ritual elements for the practical you know food and subsistence elements but also for warfare you you have this massive advantage if you know exactly what season you're in what day you're on and having some type of calendar system it's crazy i like that but also i think these were like weather shamans as well if you're talking about warfare and stuff like that i think that there's good evidence that these were high level shamans and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and they were into different aspects of animism shaman shamanic techniques trance and things like this and if you start looking i mean i'm fascinated by the native american shamans and the kind of magician types yeah you know their elites there uh i've read all the books of vine deloria jr he goes into this in great detail he was a native american scholar and activist and he recorded all these remarkable feats of native american kind of shaman priests the were jaguar you're familiar with them yeah yeah over olmec land yeah my buddy luke caverns was telling me about the way that's right and they're fascinating but honestly i get a feeling that these were different these were a different class of people even to us they had control of the elements they had control of the weather they could do things they could do magic and things like this so i think we need to have that possibility at play here as well um i don't think it was just all practical it was all just observable observing i think they were manipulating creating reality for themselves so take me to the mystical elements take me to magnetism to the spiritual parts the enunaki the watchers like how does all of that interface with this these monuments well let's let's just start at quebec li tepe and then i want to get into the book of enoch and all that kind of fun stuff but this is a representation of enclosure d so this is like a ceremony if you like but what was found back in i think the year 2000 or 2002 something like this a gentleman called paulo derba tollis of trieste university was doing some research at quebec li tepe and he found a spiraling magnetic anomaly within the center of the enclosure and he wasn't even looking for it he was doing some acoustics research which is a whole other interesting side of these sites and he found this powerful anomaly and he recorded it from all different angles and he kept coming up and he kept coming up so he knew it was real and then he kind of tested it out and realized that this was built with that in mind they must have built this on top of a magnetic anomaly so they were working with magnetism back then we've got a question why would they bother what's the problem What's the big deal with magnetism and anomalies and things like this? It's because it can affect consciousness, the work of Robert Persinger and others. It can affect your consciousness. It could put you into this altered state. That could be why they chose this site, because they felt something on that hill that was different and it kind of affected them. It kind of gave them this altered state of perception or something like this. But also they found later that the same principles, the same energies that you get from these magnetic anomalies, if you place seeds or grains at these particular spots, and this is actually the work of the brilliant book, the John Burke book, Seed of Knowledge, Stone of Plenty, and Kaj Halberg. They found that if you place seeds and grains at specific spots where this magnetism is high, it will charge up those seeds and grains to a certain point. So when you plant them, you get higher yields. Better quality crops, larger crops. So the fact is, I believe that this is where the agricultural revolution began in Enclosure D. They were experimenting. These were innovators, these people. You can magnetically charge seeds to grow more. This has been proven scientifically. It's covered in detail in this book, which you can still get copies of it, rare copies. It's online. You can read the whole book online for free if you Google it. Wow. And it was all proper. Scientifically done by John Burke. It's all really expensive equipment. He spent months going around all these different. He didn't do Gobekli Tepe. It wasn't really in existence then. He did this in the early 2000s before it kind of properly got promoted. But the same principles he was writing about at the pyramids, Stonehenge, other sites, the male culture sites of America. The same principles are at Gobekli Tepe. Now, I know you're not a scientist, but do you know the scientific reason as to why magnetism can affect seeds? Not in great detail, but I think it's to do with charge. It's like the electric magnetism, the switch between them. They can kind of charge things up and create ions, which can somehow affect. It can even fertilize and create a fertilizing field of energy. I think the magnetism is to do with the switch between electric and magnetic. And if it's at the right frequency, which is usually at sunrise, it can kick in. And like anything in that vicinity, it's going to be charged up by it. So tell me if this experiment would capture the idea. I have two seeds. Let's say, you know, random like a mustard seed or something. And I put one with some type of electrical charge in some way. Maybe it's on a magnet or some other type of experiment to then charge the seed. And the other one I leave as a control that's not near any type of electrical field. I plant both of them in the same soil. The one that is magnetically charged or interfered with will grow with more fertility. And the one that's not. This is exactly what this book's all about. He did tests like that constantly. Fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. This is an underestimated book. This is like one of the most important books I think has ever been written. So for Gobekli Tepe, that is just a naturally occurring magnetic anomaly. Yeah, it was there naturally. You get them all over the place. But often you wouldn't expect to find them at the center of the main structure, the ceremonial structure at a site. So it was the idea that these people were kind of going around. They had some type of way. A way to measure magnetism. Well, I think they felt it. In them. Yeah, you can feel it. Because you imagine now we're desensitized to all this stuff. Back then, you could feel any slight differences. And I think this was part of the hunter-gatherer way of their mindset. Because they had to kind of feel and sense everything really carefully to make sure they got their food from the hunting seasons. And maybe the most sensitive person is now some type of shaman or priestly person. Yes, exactly. And so he's kind of wandering. And he's like, guys, wait, wait, wait. I feel something. Exactly. It's as simple as that. What is it, boy? And he's like, oh, I can feel there's magnets here. Or maybe he doesn't call them magnets. He goes, there's a spiritual energy happening. And then they dig. And that is the sort of center of their temple. Well, often at these magnetic anomalies, you have light phenomena taking place, like called earth lights. What is that? This is a whole other thing. It's like plasma. It's all naturally. It all occurs. Sometimes you get it through the switch between magnetism and electric charge. And these are from the telluric currents. They move through the earth. Naturally, they're part of the magnetic field, basically. But also, you have often areas deep underneath the ground where, you know, like earthquake zones where rocks are rubbing together. They can create light phenomena on the surface, which are seen as balls of light. Like ball lightning? Yeah, et cetera. Yeah, things like this. Ball lightning is fascinating. And remember, this is an earthquake zone as well, very on the edge of an earthquake zone. So there's fault lines. Yes. So deep underneath the ground. So there's that as well. Oh, wow. So there's all these combination of things that could, I mean, this is speculative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, all this I'm speculating. But the data found, absolutely, there was a spiraling magnetic anomaly in the middle of enclosure D. And I even got that confirmed by Dr. Lee Clare because he was there when it happened. So I put a thing out, a little video about it, up online, just a short, I think it was from like the Y-Files podcast or something. I mentioned it. And then he kind of complained about it. Lee Clare said, this is rubbish. This is pseudoscience. And I'm like, well, actually, no, here's the paper. Have a look at this. Then he replied and he says, oh, I remember I was actually there when it happened. So yes, it did happen. Although he thought it was, you know, a bit of a joke. But so it proved it really did happen. I got it from the archaeologists. So there was an actual data that has been collected on this. I can't say whether this triggered the agricultural revolution. It might not have done it at all. It could be completely separate. But it's interesting that we have this research and we have the same type of magnetic anomaly. So if you go to the center of Quebec, with a magnetic compass, it would just be spinning like crazy. If you can get in there, if they let you in. Sure. They might let you in. If they let me in, then that thing would just be going nuts. It could be. But there's a lot of metal there now and roofs. Fair. So back then, not so much. Because when they actually did it, you can see here, it was mainly just wood. There was a wooden structure. Wow. Yeah. So there wasn't much going on. Fascinating. So there wasn't much to disturb. Right. You know, to get, you know, false results and things like this. And then what about the acoustics? Acoustics are very interesting. Yeah. I mean, this is something that Andrew Collins is really into, but also Paolo Derbitolis, the same guy, found some anomalies there as well. And generally, these are elliptical in shape. So elliptical structures have acoustic properties, you know, based. I'm not an acoustics guy. I don't really know too much about it. But tests have been carried out by Derbitolis and his team. Andrew's analyzed it as well and found the same things. And so they most likely were focused on what Paolo found, actually, was here. If you're standing in the center of the enclosure, that's where the whole sound would echo around the best. Basically, that's what he found. That was his conclusion in the paper that he wrote, which I thought was really intriguing. It makes sense because you have these, what appears to be benches, stone benches in between the outer T-pillars, where people will sit down and be part of this. And he also found what I thought was really interesting. So he got one of the main pillars behind him there. He said when he tapped one of the central pillars, he felt the bottom section of it was partly hollow. Because the way it resonated and the way he recorded it, he's like, what the hell? He thought it was hollow. And now that's never been said any time since then. But that's what he concluded. He said, we need to check these pillars because some of these could be slightly hollowed out. To create different frequencies, to create this effect better, which I thought was really intriguing. So the very practical component, let's go purely like what can really feel and touch, the material kind of idea. Maybe you have a priest or a shaman. They're in the middle of this area. There's a group of people gathered around them sitting on these ledges. And he's speaking or singing or doing some type of ritual that's now resonating around this whole thing. And it creates a very mystical. Plus, there's this magnetic anomaly that's happening in there that is either creating a feeling generatively that feels strange or it's doing something weird to some type of material. Or like perhaps they have, you know, like some type of like metal or something like that that's behaving strangely. And as a result, you're able to get this very sort of vibrant kind of charismatic spiritual experience that's happening there. Now, take me to the more kind of woo kind of speculative elements. Okay. Where you have magnets that are now changing your consciousness. And then on top of that, maybe a little bit of psychedelics here and there. Like what would be the experience that I would have if I was sitting on that ledge 10,000 years ago with a shaman? Well, you imagine you're at nighttime. You know, you've got fires going on at the base of the T-shaped pillars. You've got, it's kind of enclosed to some extent, although the roof would be open. Although some people have said there were like temporary roofs over them as well. I think the night sky would have played an important part of this. There's lots of symbolism now, which has come to light, that shows what appears to be psilocybin type mushrooms. Which I think is particularly interesting because there was a lot of different carvings of different bovine, like bulls, cows, aurochs, things like this. And their dung in this part of the world is where you would get a lot of psilocybin type mushrooms growing on them. Naturally, it just would happen. There's also, I've done some research on this. I've actually written in the title. There's a chapter about the psychedelics of Tastapula. There's even Lee Clare in an interview admitted there could have been mushroom parties and ceremonies. going on here and i couldn't believe it when i found that he said that and he's the head archaeologist mr sensible and so that was really intriguing so i kind of used that as the beginning quote of that chapter but also there's potential evidence that they were brewing beer they found these vats these stone troughs with calcium oxalate in it in the bottom of them and so this is what evidence of like fermented grains or kind of moldy grains and so there's that element so of altered states as well which could be in the case but also you have the potential if you've got grain which we lots of grain was found in natural grain you know like rye and wheat and things like this and einkorn when that goes off and that goes moldy you get ergot which is the psychedelic fungus which is part of the illusia mystery and all this kind of stuff as well much later ergot is basically like the fundamental chemical that creates like lsd exactly this is what it was derived from lsd so so i mean it's highly dangerous it could kill you generally but if they had a way of you know extracting it which they might have been able to do because all you have to do is leave it in water and it kind of you know takes it apart like i've heard even uh one speculation around like the dancing plague that took over southern france i believe yes that was the outbreak some people speculate that it was an ergot outbreak in their wheat if i'm not mistaken like they basically had this like wheat that they were growing and it got contaminated with like this psychedelic fungus and then they were all eating it and then all of them were just tripping the whole village a lot of them died as well right yeah you can kill you um but you can extract the good bits out of it as well and it's quite easy to do with like because it's water soluble and things like this so they may have been experimenting with trying to make this and also then you start looking at um something called syrian rue as well which is another another psychotropic which is potentially used in this region as well it's like a type of grass and also you have this type of natural grass which grows which has natural dmt within it and so you could actually interesting i think syrian rue and this other type of grass i don't have all the details in front of me um but i have written about this to be published there it's almost like the two ingredients of ayahuasca but in the grasses and plants of southeast turkey so i don't believe they could have come up with an ayahuasca type product if you like right but some of the materials to create it might have been but there's other things going on there as well and i think the i think the mushrooms is the most obvious one right yeah ayahuasca is a really interesting one yeah and it poses like a lot of issues you know sort of uh botanically because it requires two materials to mix so you need like a root to kind of be boiled down it's like a brew and then another substance i don't even know exactly what it is and you need both of them in order to achieve the effect you have one or the other and you won't really feel anything yeah but you need both one i think blocks the binders in your brain and then it allows you to have the sexual experience yeah it allows it to go into the stomach and last for a long time otherwise it gets eaten up by the acid in that region it's like the even if you're just looking at like the actual advent of uh ayahuasca in you know central south america they don't even understand how these people discovered it they're like if you were to take every combination of plants it would take billions and billions and billions of tries to even just find that these two create this effect and so how they did it no one knows and it's the same thing here like if you have both of them it's not proof that they used it but it is interesting that both of these substances occur in the same region that potentially could have created a psychedelic effect that is that i find it fascinating i mean it's something i'm kind of looking into i'm not going to try and make any or anything don't worry if you don't hear from me again i went too far yeah and uh but but you also you have the beer you have the syrian rue and this other grass potentially probably cannabis as well you know this this whole region is you get a lot of natural cannabis growing as well yeah you get um and then but i think the mushrooms is the real kind of key to understanding this and possibly the ergot as well if they were able to extract it which they could easily have done you know so now you're just in all the smoke going up in here you know you got the if you've got a temporary roof over they climb through these kind of porthole stones in the roof it's very much like a kiva ceremony of the native americans right you're feeling the heat of the fire you've got people possibly playing you know drums they had these actually had these stone plates there's lots of these stone plates beautiful carved granite and different type of rock stone plates were found all over the benches in many of these especially at carahan tepe and they've got acoustic things going on with them as well but i they probably had like you know animal skin drums they probably had horns they probably were singing like crazy and uh it would have been quite something especially if you imagine you're doing that on the winter solstice morning at carahan tepe you're lucky enough to be the one who goes in the pillar shrine when the light comes in and it's pitch black then the light comes in just this head gets illuminated you're you're tripping why you know it's like it'll be quite and the there's a lot a lot going on with these people i think they were very i don't know if it's not really religious it is religious i guess but they had a whole cult-like process going on that they were very accustomed to the reason i think that is because all the sites we can look at some of the other sites as well because it helped give people some context of the whole region is that the same design spec the t-shaped pillars the 3d relief carving the enclosures in a certain style and geometry all they maintained the same style and design for 1500 years didn't change like they just formed it boom day one right we're going to stick with this stuff 1500 years it's a long time and they didn't change it it's very odd it's like the egyptians have their own style maybe maya have their own style as well you know you do get that but those are very robust agrarian societies they could be there for a while yeah but this is like very odd and very interesting and like and to find things before that that match that just isn't there it's vaguely there here and there hey guys we're going to take a break really quick because i want to tell you about gld yeah gld sent me this chain the chain that i'm 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uh sort of gods angels whatever you want to call them come down yeah and uh yeah they they are interfacing with human beings in ancient sumeria how does it tie in with these sites well the sumerian stuff's quite weird actually when you get into this um because even klaus schmidt who was the initial excavator he believed that potentially gobekli tepe was the duku mound of creation which is one of the stories of the sumerians uh he wrote about this actually in in his kind of book that he published back in like 2012 i think and but if you look at the the position of the rivers at the euphrates that goes down into mesopotamia goes down into the sumerian kind of central zone basically and the other river tigris we have that further to the east that also joins up with the mesopotamia region as well and over on the tigris you have we have other settlements in the north that go back older than gobekli tepe sites such as cortic tepe bonchok lutala chayano is one that's really interesting as well and a couple of others that we've had a look at in that region but this is a very interesting region and it's a very interesting region and it's a very this mesopotamian connection i find quite intriguing because you have the stories obviously of enki and enlil now i know you did a whole thing on this we're not going to go into zachariah sitchin stuff territory or anything like this but if you look at the actual stories they're really intriguing because we've for a long time we were very focused on we believe these were fertility sites like karahan tepe and gobekli tepe especially because of the winter solstice that's often related to fertility traditions like the coming of the sun is um you know being reborn after being fertilized and all this kind of thing and you have the stories of enki and enlil are known to be like the fertilizers of the landscape and like you know that their great sort of sexual prowess and power would basically fertilize the land this is like one of their stories but also they were great teachers and they would travel the land moving around these different areas i think enki was anyway and that i find quite intriguing as well because then you have these stories of them building these the gods the seven gods kind of building these lofty enclosures they're called on tops of these hills and then they would create these channels of water all over the place to irrigate their crops which is similar because we found at quebec litepe there's something lee claire's been focused on lots of hidden water channels kind of under the you know in the deep levels of the bedrock and water collection stations and things like this they were harvesting rainwater and so but but whereas the sumerians say they then created crops and agriculture there and then there was much later at quebec litepe and places like this but still the stories kind of they kind of match they're kind of similar and they're all based around the same two rivers which is to me very very interesting and people have just questioned they thought these were just myths and stories of the sumerians but there are other aspects to it which i think kind of they could be referring back to this earlier time we have ninha sag as well she she is like the goddess really she's like the female one of the you know one of the kind of primary gods of the anarchy ninha sag she was linked with fertility and fecundity but she was also remembered as actually creating humans out of the stone or the earth or the mud which i don't know if you've heard of it but it's a i think it's quite odd and then she was sometimes um she would then get them to do their work as such it's a bit like the kind of it's got nephilim connotations with the watches and things like that as well and is that story documented through sumerian record yes it's in the sumerian record and i mean some in some accounts some translations especially the the shiny ones by um the o'briens christian and barbara joy o'brien and also their book the genius of the few which they talk about their translations of the sumerian texts i think it's quite odd and then she was sometimes um she they talk about her in a more practical modern way that they saw her has this is where you go into zachariah sitian territory a little bit it's actually creating humans from dna and genetics and experimenting creating different animals and combinations of animal humans and creating humans themselves to be their workers so they can go and do the work for them because they don't want to do all the hard work they want to go and hang out in their lofty enclosures you know and kind of have food brought to them so this is kind of you got that kind of stuff when christian o'brien was trying to translate this he couldn't he couldn't see another way to translate that he said they were experimenting they were they were like scientists doing this work it wasn't just you know mythology they were talking about here so that that kind of really got me so there are elements of it uh we've gone into it a little bit in the book um but we find more i find more correlations and more interest really in the book of enoch i think that's where it gets intriguing because i i've got this strong sense and this is we're gonna have to get into some numbers i'm afraid this is this is gonna it's gonna happen okay i can't i can't go any further your disappointment we're doing math guys i'm sorry because we've been having fun bring out the numbers it makes it really makes sense for the book of enoch i think this is what's so interesting here and just a button of the theory on the enoch yeah so just so everyone's kind of aware obviously the story of the enoch coming from sumerian record printed in cuneiform from that civilization you're suggesting that it's possible that that is a story that was inherited from an older civilization potentially at gobekli tepe that this is a story that maybe these people shared that then made its way down to mesopotamia to the sumerians essentially perhaps but i think essentially yes i think i think yes is the answer but at the same time i think you've got such a large time gap between them that other things came in between you know i think other other groups came in between that and kind of enhanced the stories and changed them a bit because because as soon as 8 000 bc here they were covered up so they were just relying on memories and oral traditions from that area you know they weren't there was nothing else there to work from it kind of dispersed after that right and people proposed similar theories with you know noah's ark for example yeah being a later retelling of the story of atrahasis or other things like this so there's you know many different versions of this where you know there's a current culture or a culture that we're aware of through documentation that got stories from older civilizations and they kind of get passed on so it's not it's not insane or controversial to say that stories get passed on but if it's this specific story of the enunaki that'd be very interesting and of course this is speculative yeah i think there are connections i think i think you've got to look at i've got to give andrew collins a little kind of mention here because his uh his new book on karahan tepe is excellent very good i big it up um i wrote the four word for it we did an appendix in it about i win a sausage thing he's he's very he's like a mentor to me so i really got a lot of respect for him he got me into gobekli tepe if it wasn't for him i wouldn't be here talking about he really got me focused on it and encouraged me to look into it a bit more from because he knows i cover things from different perspectives and perspectives but he's very much he's looked into that a lot i mean even back in the early 90s he was writing about the book of enoch and the enunaki and trying and he believed before even gobekli tepe got discovered that there was going to be something found in the region of gobekli tepe well and he he saw it coming he was right yeah he was right all along and like and i think a lot of people don't give him enough credit so i want to kind of yeah big him up a little bit here andrew collins yeah for sure and um and i and he's always like got this one step ahead vibe going on he's always there before anyone else rarely gets the credit he deserves but his anunnaki got us into it a little bit and made us he's look at his look at the anunnaki got us into it made us look at it from a different perspective as well especially since karahan tepe got discovered because this story of ninha saying of her creating these different beings from the earth is almost like the pillar shrine you can imagine these are half-formed beings coming out and that could be ninha seg's head coming over the top kind of observing what's happening or it could be enki we don't know you know perhaps the pillars were actual sculptures yeah yeah but they were deliberately looking half-formed because that's the nature of the ninha seg story which is very similar to obviously the abrahamic story of god creating adam from the dirt yes yeah yeah similar yeah you you even get that in strange in strange you get that with the great god viracocha uh to an aqua and pumapunku where he was said to emerged from lake titicua but he actually created his worker force these giants from the earth from the mud from the stone to create and build the sites he wanted created like tiwanaku like the megalithic sites out there but then they got out of control much like they did in the stories of the anunnaki and in the book of enoch as well you know with the watchers and the nephilim and created a flood and destroyed them because they became cannibals they became out of control they were they were you couldn't tell them what to do anymore they were not able to do anything they were not able to do anything to do their own thing so similar to the nephilim story you get so many parallels with these super ancient myths and often related to the giants but also often related to the flood and often related to the creation of these sites and the beings that built them so let's let's go to enoch then so for anyone that's not familiar with the book of enoch i can give like a short little summary and if i miss anything please let me know but effectively there are specifically three books first second and third enoch collected and then the first one is the book of enoch which is a book that was originally written down by the essian jews that then buried them uh in the dead sea scrolls where they were eventually discovered and they also appear in the ethiopian bible which is another interesting point i think that's kind of when they were first really discovered from i think in the 1700s you had researchers going to ethiopia finding these old christian bibles where it's right in the bible now in our bibles here in america if you're a catholic or protestant enoch is not found in there but enoch is found in the bible one of the great men i think the seventh from adam one of two people in the bible who never dies or technically three if you count jesus but really it's enoch and elisha that go to be with god who's very sacred and very personal to god but outside of a couple mentions in i think genesis and then another reference later in jude there's not really much that's said about enoch as a person but then we have these books of enoch we don't know if necessarily they were written by enoch but first enoch tells this fascinating kind of creation story and this kind of introducing evil into the world in a very fascinating way and in short you have these watchers that come down these angels perhaps by god's behest they descend upon mount hermon you have azazel who's i think the the king kind of angel kind of the leader of the angels and he links up with all of them he goes all right boys guess what i'm going down here we're supposed to watch the people but i don't know if you've seen the human women they're beautiful and we're going to take them as brides so they go down and they co-mingle with these human women which is against the rules they were supposed to just watch but instead they co-mingle with human women and then they teach humanity all sorts of different things you know warfare and alchemy perhaps and uh how to like forge weapons and cosmology no cosmo basically cosmetics and then uh which is kind of an interesting detail to put in there i think it's kind of funny and then the descendants of these watchers and these human women become the nephilim and the nephilim start devouring everything and then god sends a flood to then you know basically clean up the world because of the evil that the watchers brought into humanity and after the flood the nephilim are dead their souls perhaps you know circle the world as demons and the knowledge and information that was passed on from these divine beings now exists with humans and we do war and all sorts of terrible things and that's sort of the story of the book of first enoch at least it's a fascinating story people have obviously connected it with inunaki ancient aliens you know or is it possible these are aliens that came down that gave us this information how does that story connect with these sites enoch i believe and the stories within that book or books of enoch is referencing this earlier you know era this is much like we get with the anarchy i believe i think it's very similar i think the anarchy may be an early representation of the builders of quebec li tepe because there was very i believe there were elite groups within this testable culture likewise i believe that the book of enoch may be referencing parts of the whole quebec li tepe testable people especially when you get into the story of uriel and him taking enoch to all these different places uh specifically this quote here really gets me you know and i saw in those days how long cords were given to the angels and they took themselves wings and flew and went towards the north and we'll get on to why i think that's important shortly and i asked an angel saying unto him why have they taken cords and gone off and he replied they have gone to measure and these measures shall reveal all the secrets of the depths of the earth so just that alone has so much information in it when it comes to what i've been looking at at places like quebec li tepe because i believe that they when you look at the the geometry you look at the numbers and the measurements within quebec li tepe and you actually figure it out what they were doing i believe that they had an understanding of the size and shape of the planet they really did and even more so during the era i believe that this is again this is speculation i'll make that clear i've been called out on this by the archaeologists at quebec li tepe i believe speculatively that they were sending out people to go and measure the earth now the reason being is because within the sites themselves they seem to have an understanding of the measurements of the earth because all the different types of foot lengths they were using the megalithic yard these are all subdivisions of either the degrees of latitude or the actual actual shape of the earth very accurately and also you have you have passages like this where they're sending them out to different latitudes to go and make these measurements which then you would then be able to determine and work out you know the different measurements of the lengths of degree and things like this is often credited to like euripides i believe if i'm not mistaken yeah and it's actually a similar similar to this it's like you know creating like poles uh and placing them at different positions at the same exact same time measuring the lengths or angles of the uh shadows which they were doing in egypt that's that's what you're talking about so i think that's a really good point i think it's that's what you're talking about and but there but then also they have descriptions in the book of enoch of going to what appears to be these northern latitudes like stonehenge like possibly scotland and things like this with descriptions in great detail describing what appears to be these windows between these megaliths and like actually and enoch scribbling this all down in in his book eventually that came out in the book and he doesn't really know what's going on but he's trying to make notes it seems like and he's trying to make notes and he's trying to make notes like he's just trying to get what he can and then you have people like you know the brilliant robin heath is like a researcher on stonehenge he had a look at this and he's he's not he's a proper archaeoastronomer mathematician he used to teach archaeoastronomy at lambert university and things like this and he worked out that they were like describing stonehenge and the movements of the sun and the skies from within stonehenge in the book of enoch and that really got me as well because we know for instance we know now there's been there's evidence that's come out of cyprus that they were navigating 14 000 years ago between turkey and cyprus and other parts of europe without doubt they found different animals different types of minerals and things like this that could only have been got across the sea basically and such a large amount of animals and people they think they must have quite large boats possibly small ships in the ice age between the turkish mainland and cyprus and they've got a lot that they could navigate that's that's beyond doubt there's lots of other evidence now to back that up but then when you come up to this part of the world now clearly they would have navigated around the coast you know hugging the coast you don't go out into deep sea they could have got to england because this is doggerland joined europe and europe i saw europe and england up until around eight thousand years ago and so i i believe that there are little clues like at sites like stonehenge for instance where they found these giant wooden post holes which are over ten thousand years old which clearly mark the exact position of stonehenge which were then built five thousand years later we have another site wait can you just take me through that detail again i missed what yes at stonehenge right so you've got stonehenge here so just to you know down here somewhere it's off the picture actually ten thousand years ago three giant pine post holes were placed marking this stonehenge spot and they would have been like thirty foot tall they worked out because of the depth of them they found wooden remnants at the bottom of these pits now this wasn't built the stonehenge stones because stonehenge was five thousand years ago this was ten thousand years ago so they put these giant poles in the ground five thousand years goes by and then they build stonehenge yes this is it and so this this whole area here is a known mesolithic site it's like the the equivalent of the what's that era in turkey is called the pre-pottery neolithic but this is the same as the mesolithic technically so it's before the neolithic and there's a whole settlement called blickmead here as well and there's lots of new discoveries happening right now proving that the whole area right where i live was a ten thousand year old to twelve thousand year old settlement so now they're getting dates back that match quebec li tepe so i'm absolutely convinced as much as i can be that they were traveling around different parts of the world and measure trying to measure the planet take astronomical measurements to measure the size of the planet and then measure the size of the universe and then measure the size of the universe and then measure the size of the earth and then measure the size of the earth and then measure the size of the earth and then measure the size of the universe and then measure the size of the earth and then measure the size of the earth and the reason i believe that this has some validity is because this is the alignment the stonehenge the famous like this one here this is the famous thousands of people watching the sunrise at stonehenge but they watch it going down this avenue which has been carved out of the ground like ditches and banks but before that ten thousand years ago there were natural parallel ridges in the ground called periglacial strips going along here and within where stonehenge was later built there was a mound was constructed at the bottom of the hill another mound was constructed that's a new old mound yeah and these this marks the summer solstice sunrise and the winter solstice sunset by utilizing partly natural features but also constructions 10 000 years ago which is the same principles as we have at camera and tepe now again this is speculative if it's connected with uh camera and tepe but up in northern scotland in aberdeenshire right you know 10 000 years ago this would be ice sheet because of the um gulf stream you still would have had some warmth coming in here even in the ice age at the end of the just after the end of the ice age it was still quite a lot of ice up there but it would only reach around where this site was so i believe they went all the way up to the ice and would take in measurements hence the descriptions in the book of enoch talking about this extreme weather and different kind of you know systems and things like this and here they did a similar thing they found these post holes marking the winter solstice and also marking the different moon phases as well so i mean again it's a bit of a stretch but i think there's something to this i really do because there are other parts of the world where we're finding similar things as well is it possible these this information just passed through stories like oral tradition could you have the people in northern scotland building these things because it's obviously advantageous for their solstice and then they share the story with someone in southern england and they share with someone in france and it goes all the way down into turkey quite possibly yeah i mean you look in the route they're taking you know and um from i think it's coming it's coming from southeast turkey everything i think this is the kind of hub this is like what is really the atlantis of the ancient world if you want to sort of you know put it into a perspective some kind of perspective this is where the real knowledge was kind of emerged this is where the the real knowledge was kind of emerging starting in turkey i believe so yeah and then it was moving to these areas yes i think that way around yeah i think it makes sense um but why is it why is it the case that they have to travel on foot why do you need like a traveler to go from there all the way to northern scotland it seems like a difficult journey it does seem like a difficult journey i think this this is possibly like um one-way trips you know i think i think they were just explorers right and they wanted to explore that i mean i think they had to i think this explains a lot it explains the measurements they were using it explains these ancient maps like the piri's res map the orontius finicus map and things like this which which you have some here you have some of the maps here and uh so therefore how on earth could these have got mapped if someone didn't go and do it someone had to go and do it and we know some of these go back 10 to 12 000 years some of them go back to the end of the last ice age and graham hancock spoke about this back in 1990s he was talking about this so so to me i'm just following on and like adding to the story here i'm not like trying to force a new story into play this is like something that's already been suggested and put out there and these old maps these were talked about by dr charles hapgood and albert einstein was back was backing up charles hapgood i think albert einstein was involved in maps of the ancient sea kings when that came out really yeah yeah he he backed up he backed up what charles hapgood was saying that hancock took that to another level in fingerprints of the gods and now we've got quebec li tepe and all the sites there and all these other sites because even this site here in aberdeen she wasn't known about until a few years ago and now we've got quebec li tepe and all the sites there and all these other a few years ago so you know so now the more and more data is coming out and now that the dates of quebec li tepe have been proven now it's open open season we can now look again at a lot of these places and see things from the perspective of the discoveries at quebec li tepe and carahan tepe right and i think you know we really needs to be reconsidered a lot of what's been dismissed over the years as pseudoscience i think there's a lot more that needs to be addressed hey guys we're gonna take a break really quick because i want to give a quick shout 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shouldn't have been existed back then i mean this is to me unbelievable i mean i'm i'm just this is kind of rudimentary research i haven't gone to even gone that deep into this and i'm finding things almost every enclosure i'm looking at i'm finding a very specific geometry associated with it what kind of geometry well if we look at the work of alexander tom i think this is where we need to kind of begin this is the dude okay the dude back in the 1938 onwards for about 25 years 30 years he surveyed 600 stone circles in the british isles and in france as well when you say stone circles you mean basically like the classic stone circles like stonehenge avebury you know castle rig and things like this just what we what you find all over britain there's over a thousand of these stone circles being recorded and he found these mostly circles obviously but a lot of them were these unusual geometries many of them were based upon pythagorean triangles like whole number triangles 345 512 13 and so forth and what i found was also the ellipse as well and what i found really interesting is that i kind of recognized these from quebec lutepe so i kind of overlaid them and i kept fighting and i found some just really nice ones really really pretty pretty clear these aren't the archaeologists say these are randomly built enclosures with no geometry they're just it's i don't buy it i think they were experimenting i'm not saying they were masters of it back then i think they were experimenting with different geometries because they were intelligent people they wanted to because each one of these you know when you first the first phase of creation of each of these enclosures they have to carve the initial shape out of the bedrock and they leave a curb about six to ten inches like a they carve the bedrock flat then they have a curb around it so there's a whole shape and these are the shapes of that what they're creating first and then they create slots in the kind of step or the curb put the t pillars in around the edge and i don't believe any of this walls this rubble was there originally that came later right so this is enclosure d now this is quite an advanced geometry there's only one or two stone circles in britain that actually have this um but this is an egg shape based on two five twelve thirteen triangles and then when you say two five twelve thirteen sorry no i mean uh so five twelve thirteen got it so five twelve thirteen so the x and the y and then 13 is the hypotenuse yeah yeah that's right and this is a classic pythagorean one you actually find this in stonehenge as well with the four station stones there uh it's known as also known as a lunation triangle and i find that particularly interesting i mean i've tried i've experimented trying to slot in different egg shapes but this one seems to work the best then we've got enclosure c this is a flattened circle modified type b these are just names given by alexander tom but this is very accurate this is like essentially spot it is one of these yeah it's undeniable um but the other thing about this they've actually reconstructed it and it's confirmed what i put forward before they reconstructed it the shape works because you can see some of the bedrock uh edge around the sort of the bottom right so now let's operate under the pretense that they did specifically build these with very specific angular dimensions to have different pillars and to have different shapes and to have different shapes and to have different shapes and to have different shapes and to have different shapes and to have different pillars all kind of creating these different triangles at these specific types of degrees what is the significance of that i believe that again i believe it was experimental i think they were just experimenting with creating a sacred space like a liminal space so there's something about these degrees that they just felt i think they i don't really know i mean i've got to be honest with you this is one of the big question marks hanging over this is why would they do this but then you have to question why did all the british stone circle builders do it and why did do it as well why did they go to such lengths in the pyramids of egypt to create very specific geometries and number systems and metrology the same question mark arises here because this is much much earlier and i think we have to consider that they were trying to create something special different and sacred that's the fundamentals of it yeah it's an interesting question and finding harmony finding proportion finding uh something that kind of resonated with them as well the obvious things to me would be like okay visual beauty right yeah we understand harmony we understand like you know aesthetically like if people have proportional faces or faces that they're more beautiful if we see a flower that's perfectly symmetrical it's pleasing to us for some reason maybe it indicates some type of health of the thing and biologically it's good and just thinking like purely materially these things are nice and so maybe there's something about these ratios when you're constructing a a building that are just harmonious for the way the human beings interface with them certainly there's an acoustic element but if you build things with a certain type of you know angular dimension the acoustics will be different now i also wonder if there's like a spiritual component are there some types of geometry that when we're in them it creates some type of connection spiritually well now we're in the sort of woo kind of category this is the cathedrals this is like what the cathedral is all about i mean that they were built they weren't built just like a cathedral it's just like a cathedral it's just like a cathedral it's just like a cathedral as buildings they were built oriented specifically usually to the east but actually some very interesting orientations in the early churches and early buildings and cathedrals and also they were had very specific they were using pythagorean geometry in the cathedrals as well as they were in the stone circles right and many of them have acoustic effects and so i think this is just a combination they just knew what was right they felt they had to do it a certain way right and if you believe in the bible right which many people listening may may do god is very specific about all the constructions for him right like if you know god is saying build the ark of the covenant this way with these dimensions build you know the temple and the first temple and the second temple very specifically and you know the ancient jews had to bring in master builders to build the second temple that were very specific to very specific measurements like it was all very ordained so if you're coming at it from a religious perspective if you are a believer of these texts like on a spiritual level why is god so concerned with the construction of these spaces maybe it's something harmonious maybe it's material maybe there's a spiritual component and in the same way why do all these have the same sort of dimensions what's happening yeah that's what i'm so curious it is a curious thing i mean it's one of the it's one of the mysteries but i think they were trying to create order in space you know some kind of order they were clearly monumentalizing what they knew and i think they there's something to do with creating some kind of order from the chaos i think this is the fundamentals of this and this is why they were so obsessed with orientation and measure they wanted to like understand what was around them they probably saw things moving in the sky they wanted to work out why and how things happened when certain illuminations like the carahan tepe solstice would occur and so forth but they were doing it that's the thing it's there you know they were doing something very very interesting and experimental it could have been just what they kind of too many mushrooms you know it just weren't too many mushrooms but i mean for instance this is this one is particularly interesting because there's actually two stone circles in this it's like a double stone circle so you got an inner circle and then you got an outer one and they're both exactly the same geometry and they're exactly double the size and so they knew about clearly the proportion was happening stonehenge has a similar thing the inner circle and the outer circle and they're perfect and i think i think it was randall that was telling me randall carlson that the dimensionality of them is the exact dimensionality of i think the earth and the moon yes two celestial bodies sun and the moon i can't remember exactly but i think it's earth and the moon that's correct that's right and they were very they were very aware of this you know and i think i think they were starting to do this kind of stuff here uh you have like this egg shape as well uh which is uh again this is possibly linked with fertility but it's also a three four five pythagorean triangle geometry as well i'll just whip through some of these and this is what it looks like on another plan and so yeah the list goes on and these are some of the examples from britain as well if you want to just have a quick look but this was even found in egypt as well that's like nab the player the same egg-shaped geometry um and in deep southern egypt this goes back to up to five thousand to seven or so thousand bc and so why were they doing it it's just it just gets weirder and weirder it seems to be some tradition some fundamental way of seeing the world they wanted to do this at these sites that's that's kind of my assumption i like i know people like to speculate like oh there was you know some type of overgirding intelligence that was instructing all these people to do things in this way perhaps i'm not as sold on that like if i you know people look at the pyramids that show up all around the world and like why are there pyramids everywhere to me the obvious thing is like well if you're going to stack up stones to be really tall and really big a pyramid's kind of the only structure that really you can get to that height so that part makes sense right if you're going to stack rocks like kind of kind of have to be a pyramid to be big and so for this though there is something that to me that is the question like what is it about these frequencies these angles these measurements that everyone independently is able to come up with this and we've seen independent innovation across time always right like you know people are going to find agriculture in different areas they don't necessarily need to talk to each other it's just human beings find this as a really helpful way to build civilization and we can understand the intrinsic value but what is the intrinsic value of building these exact circles at these exact ratios is it just for lunar calendars is there something spiritual connected to it i think it's a bit of everything i really do and i think again i think it just comes back to finding order because they're so they just wanted to kind of create something that they probably like figured some of this out in some of the paintings they were doing in the caves some of the uh earliest structures they may have been building with wood that have vanished since and they just found there were certain ways of doing things but i think there's something within within us that we want we we these geometries are every they're part of nature yeah it's a part of us it's part of us it's part of nature it's part of the cosmos it's part of the world and i think this is it and i think they were just you know starting to determine that that there's more to just surviving yeah we can actually kind of start using this giant brain we've got in our head i wonder if it's something that's simple as like figuring things out you get a group of 50 people together and one person talks to them they might just form a circle naturally you know like i wonder if you were just to get a bunch of people and speak yeah yeah like would they just form a circle is that the most natural way like i've been on soccer teams yeah like when the coach talks everyone just kind of forms a circle maybe that's a cultural imprint that we all kind of know to do or maybe there's something biological where we're like okay well we want to all be the closest distance and the circle is the best way to keep a distance with the radius to the center maybe these as well especially at kebekli tepe the commoner didn't know about this they didn't have a clue right so i believe that these geometries that we're looking at these potential geometries now things i've not been inside these particular ones and being able to go in with a tape measure and measure them so i'm basing this upon all the maps and data that comes out of there as best i can so and still more needs to be cleared to prove this but i just think this the this was wasn't a group effort this is one or two or a handful of people who were experimenting with this they wanted to create these sacred spaces and they knew they had some intuitive or shamanic knowledge that the you had to do this because you take a psychotropics you get geometries you kind of you have revelations see this fractally kind of thing yeah you have revelations about this kind of this kind of stuff but also i think this is partly based upon the metrology because there's certain measurements as well certain fractions of the earth's surface and again we have to come back to alexander tom because when he was decoding the megalithic sites of britain he came across a measurement which was 2.72 feet or 0.83 meters which he called the megalithic yard which is you know like this and look at that dude i mean you don't mess with him he's the master nice to share a little whiskey and chat about megaliths with that guy yeah he knows he knew his stuff but even though he was a professor of engineering at oxford university he got ridiculed and harassed and dismissed by the academic community because they couldn't understand his maths they just weren't up to his level he was at a different level and this was late developed by two of my uh mentors john michelle and john neal who both unfortunately passed away who wrote about and discovered this ancient canon of measurement uh based around the foot lengths now i'm not going to go too much into this right now i think it's something that me and aj got into big time he's well into his numbers and things like this but fundamentally i just summarize it he discovered the megalithic yard alexander tom whereas john michelle and john neal discovered a canon of measurements like series of like 12 to 15 different foot lengths which are all slightly different foot lengths all but all fractionally apart from each other in a perfect ratios like a musical scale the primary one happens to be the thing is either slightly longer or slightly shorter than that but these are all based upon harmonic fractions of the earth's circumference the degree of latitude at specific latitudes or the diameter or the radius of things like this and so this is particularly interesting because many of these measurements even when you go into the the length of the mile you go into the furlong you go into the nautical mile these are all based upon earth measurements and then you break them down into like fractions again you get down to the different foot lengths and fundamentally many of these are being found at quebecli tepe now this is what's odd because when you're looking for measurements at sites if you're interested in this stuff probably about eight people on the planet me being one of them and six of my mates being the others but um what we find is is that you have to find whole numbers if you if you're finding like 6.5 megalithic yards can't really use it it's got to be a whole number it's got to be six or it's got to be seven otherwise you just dismiss it so that's how you you sort the wheat from the chaff you get rid of the get rid of the rubbish quickly and as long as you've got good plans to work from i worked all this out but this needs to be changed as i've i've made a couple of minor errors on here but nothing major just a couple and because i've got new new plans better plans that i've come across that have been recently published and we're finding all these ancient measurement systems and interestingly the measurement systems we're finding are from this part of the world the sumerian foot the persian foot and the assyrian foot for instance the sumerian palm as well also the remin as well and other other such measurements and certain egyptian cubits as well and the royal cubits which often didn't necessarily come from egypt they may have actually come from here and so we're finding that very particular numbers and certain foot lengths found repeatedly throughout these sites and earlier a few years ago some academics were studying a site called chayano which is another one of these sites which is further north and they found a unit of measure which was 48 centimeters or 0.48 centimeters so that's basically 1.5 persian feet which is i found interesting because the one the primary measurement we're finding is the persian foot which is 1.05 feet within these structures and that's a subdivision of the mile it's a subdivision of the earth and everything else castle knows all about i'm sure he talked about some of this yeah um but the fundamental thing is is that they must have had some understanding of the size and shape of the earth to come up with these measurements they couldn't have done it without that i mean it doesn't otherwise it's just extreme billions to one chance luck they have these measurements in these sites so something i'm getting into now uh but fundamentally this is why i think they were sending people out at the very early stages even before quebecly tapir was being built when they were all starting to congregate people already knew they had to go and kind of make these maps remap the planet after the great cataclysm and this information ended up at sites like this so tell me if i'm understanding this correctly the way that cultures will establish a unit of measurement is arbitrary so you know a foot in england might be two feet somewhere else in the world and that these things are you know kind of human made how you understand measurements but the ratios of these measurements are fundamental that if i have one chicken and you have two chickens you have double the chickens and the understanding of that yeah fundamental ratio of chickens is the same everywhere because that mathematics is fundamental to the universe so how we describe them might change and when we're looking at the ratios of all these cultures even if their measurements are slightly different the ratios of them are the exact same because of course math is fundamental and they're also in reference and the exact same as far as the ratios of the earth and other celestial bodies related to the earth this this is the fundamental so you've got this again this is probably a bit much to go into you know trying to explain this on a podcast format because it's quite technical i'm not a brilliant mathematician or anything trust me i'm just i'm learning as i'm going i'm actually i've been doing this course with a brilliant guy called adam tetlow who runs a metrology course i've been doing it with him and he's been helping me kind of get my head around this because it's like learning a language it's very intense but yes fundamentally what you're saying is correct but what we have to do is we have to learn a language and we have to learn a language and we have to understand here is all the numbers on the left they're like the point 1.125 feet whatever but the fractions between the different feet could be found there so you've got 63 over 81 you've got 49 over 63 and there's there's fundamental ones which uh relate to earth measures where you have like one right just to confuse matters even further one persian foot can have four different versions of the persian foot depending on if it's the canonical foot which is the fundamental one whether it's the root foot which is what everything is then based upon you know as a kind of standard then you have the geographic foot which relates to different um latitudes as you go north and south and there's even another one as well which i forgot what it is but this is all within the persian understanding of math yeah but that in all the different foot lengths you have this you have these different variations so what is one of the big mistakes which a lot of people do i think this is kind of what alexander tom did and he got john neal criticized him for this is that there's not one standard unit of measure that everyone used there's multiple units and it's a canon of measure it's a series of measurements and but they're all related to one another and the ancients the elite ancients anyway had an understanding of that they could do the arithmetic in their heads and the assumption is that these ancient people didn't have any any idea of how big the earth was they didn't know they didn't understand where the moon was they didn't understand how big it was but based off of what we're looking at it's it's possible that the elite mathematicians of this time of ancient ancient i mean prehistory ten thousand fifteen thousand years ago yeah more even yeah i mean i think that the data was being collected long before that because you have the study of procession as well something randall knows into um and i think there's just something there's some people who just recorded this they wanted to know that the inquisitive side the curiosity over time they just developed these principles and you can see that with the work of alexander marsha where he's finding all these notations they're recording all these little details which makes sense to me right because you know we math is not invented it's discovered right there's something fundamental perhaps it's the way that god created the universes through mathematics that it's something that humans can discover and it just so happens that pythagoras or archimedes or aljabir whoever it is they get credit for it because they're the ones that most recently documented but it's possible these pre prehistoric people actually understood it as well well i think there was just pythagoras there was another pythagoras about right you know i really think that i think there was another you know these great teachers plato and there were people like that about back then i think this is why all this stuff seems to be there there's different cycles of time but you get the same intelligence of people and how do we lose it how did the breakdown it just it just i think people just get dumber you know they get like i think the agricultural revolution dumbed us down i really do it seems like that's what happened it because everything became easy said entry you don't do anything you just got to make sure your crops are okay you know just check your check your watch check your calendar this that and the other and that's it you've got domesticated animals everywhere you don't need to go hunting you just get just get a boring lifestyle you know you just kind of get into you know day-to-day things the frame changes yeah but one of the other things i really want to mention this is i think it's a big deal probably other people don't but this is some other geometry was worked out by these uh um tel aviv university professors avi gopher and gil hackley and they worked out that the center of each enclosure in fact this is a better image here it marks it creates a perfect equilateral triangle now this might not seem a big deal but when you this is where we started decoding the measurements from because this equilateral triangle we worked out that the persian foot the sumerian foot foot royal egyptian foot and sumerian palms were encoded within it and that's where this adam tetlow did this and he kind of realized and he sent me this said look there's something going on here there's no way these should be here and he's a mastered metrologist and geometry teaches it you know you know colleges and things like this and he's the one that spotted this it's not me just trying to make stuff up this is like you know this is like a genuine teacher who approached me and said look you need to look at this these shouldn't be here there's no way they could know this so in this image the yellow kind of golden triangle yeah that would be where the sites are where those joints meet yeah so you've got the triangle there they're the three main enclosures and then if you zoom out the circle that goes across yeah so that's that's like he's just experimenting with the circumferences and things like the circumference of that triangle is 200 perfectly royal egyptian feet yes and then it doesn't make any sense there's no way they could do that you should know that stuff the diameter of that circle is 200 sumerian palms yeah wow and then yeah this is this is what got him because he he he's not fudging the numbers here either this is for real and like he knows he is the teacher of metrology he got trained by john michelle and john neil for years so but explain to me though if you have these sort of shapes right you have this triangle and they form a perfect equilateral that's pretty cool but it's possible they could have you know obviously just understood okay we need this to all be the same distance whatever their unit of measurement is yeah but could you map like any culture's foot or their unit of measurement so to speak to then fit that well this is it this is what this is where it gets interesting because you can like you say you've got 10 different foot lengths all these different feet virgin foot samaria you can like apply that to a site until one of them fits when one fits that's where you start working that's where you start working that's where you start working that's where you start figuring stuff out from if it's point 3.4 or it's 3.2 then it gets to three that's interesting then it's 2.9 not so interesting so forth three of those persian feet oh that's interesting so let's look at the persian foot then you start seeing if that's anywhere else and you go into it then you might find another area of the site might focus on the sumerian foot because that's what they kind of did they didn't want to just they experimented with slightly different measurements based upon different cultures coming in from different places but they're all harmonics of the earth shape and size this is what's so odd they all fit but in slightly different ways that's what kind of gets me but i think this this was then developed by howard crowhurst this particular uh equilateral triangle and he does something called modular geometry so this is the squares he places squares over maps and landscapes and things and it's often the angles between a double or a triple or quadruple square he finds that often related to something very important whether it's a solstice alignment or a different movement of the stars but he found this particularly interesting because the triple square marks the orientation of two of the main enclosures and kind of and then the triple scare going upwards marks the orientation going sort of just off north and then he realized well actually that is perfectly them squares are perfectly north south east and west so they knew that they must have known the cardinal direction to build these structures and create this triangle in the first place that is not really chance but to me that doesn't even seem controversial like i don't get why there's so much resistance from mainstream nor do i nor do i i find it baffling you give me ancient humans a hundred thousand years ago they see that the sun rises and sets in the same place and they can work out the the north star it never moves everything else moves around it you sit out there and look at the stars for three hours and you'll be like oh that one's staying right there yeah so to me like to me i feel the same i feel like we knew the cardinal directions before we're even homo sapiens i do yeah but officially it wasn't supposed to be known until the pyramid age that's the thing the So what's the theory? That like human beings 100,000 years ago that had the same exact brain as us were just looking at the stars and being like, well, it means nothing. Yeah. Well, this is what we're told. This is what we're told. Now, is this just like the disagreement with like how science interprets data and how the average person interprets data? Could be. So like the average person, we could presume like, yeah, they probably knew the cardinal directions, but the scientists have a standard of evidence that they must adhere to in order to abide by the scientific method. So they say, look, it's probably the case that they knew northeast, southwest, but we don't have empirical evidence to support it until this time. Yeah. I think this is where the pyramid age, where the great pyramid itself is pretty much perfect. Which I think is part of the disconnect between the average person and scientists, that scientists get so caught up within methodology that they kind of ignore the obvious inference. And when they're in a paper, they're like, well, I can't just say like they obviously knew it. So I have to only go based off what the evidence is. And the evidence is obviously sparse. Because this is ancient history and most of it gets destroyed or looted or whatever. And so the average person goes like, oh, they're obviously covering something up or they're hiding something or they're not telling us the truth because they're not acknowledging the very human inference that, yeah, the sun rises in one place and sets in the other. So to me, I'm like, there's a disconnect. I think scientists, broadly speaking, again, I'm not a scientist. I don't know. I think they need to do a better job of just being like, hey, we understand that they probably knew this, but we can only support with evidence. This theory that had happened here, you know, I mean, you got the equinoxes, like the equinox sunrise, equinox sunset, east, west, you're going to get it. You know, this is why I don't think it's a big deal, but it is in some ways because we're told they didn't know anything about this back then, but clearly they did. And so this is what I find so intriguing that, you know, I've got, this is one of my friends, Howard Crowhurst, he's a geometer and writer. He studies the sites, mainly in Carnac, Brittany, but he started applying these techniques to. And he said, this shouldn't, you know, this is bizarre. It's like there's something going on here. These were, these were like scientists building these sites. It's, you know, this is a bit more sophisticated than we're being told. Hey guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I want to tell you about one of our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Blue Chew. And you know what else Blue Chew could sponsor? Your marriage. Yes. I hope this ad goes into a part of the episode that makes sense and isn't too scary or concerning for me to talk about. About making love in the bedroom. 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Right now, when you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with the promo code Gagnon. That is the promo code G-A-G-N-O-N. And you will also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Your wife will thank you. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring the pod and, of course, the married bedroom. Now, let's get back to the show. To me, I just see, I don't know, all this stuff. I'm like, I just imagine humans 120,000 years ago, they see an animal poop somewhere and all of a sudden something grows out of it. And they're like, oh, if you plant seeds, growth happens. Like, to me, the idea that, like, they were just, like, bumbling idiots. Like, they had the same brains as us. They're very clever. But this is it. But people don't think that. I mean, there's people, I mentioned this to you before the podcast, there's people online who think, hunter-gatherers weren't sophisticated enough to build Gobekli Tepe. And that baffles me because I know from my research, from JJ's research, we know how smart they were. All this evidence leading up to the point of Gobekli Tepe, you can see it happening if you dig into it. But on the surface, you don't see it. You just see what's on Wikipedia or what people are talking about on YouTube. And so I think that's where the difference is. The academics have done all that work, whereas the general person hasn't. So I think that. That's the problem. I mean, people just think, oh, it must have come out of nowhere. It must have been aliens. It must have been, like, these divine beings or whatever, which has got some context and some of the myths. But actually, if you trace it back, you have a good look. You can find the lead up to this, and you can find the very smart hunter-gatherer groups doing very advanced things. I mean, I think, like, even non-homo sapiens were doing things like sailing and making art, right? Exactly, yeah. I mean, I think, like. There's millions. It's millions of years old, the sailing thing now, isn't it? They've got that. Yeah. Hundreds of thousands of years. I've heard that, like, Homo florensis were able to sail, like, Neanderthals were making art. You know, it's like. So to me, I'm like, yeah, they were probably doing interesting stuff. I think there's a. I think that's the disconnect is when the mainstream scientific community isn't willing. Or maybe it's a. It might be a communication thing when they're not willing to say, like, hey, they were probably doing this. We just can't support it. But based off human intuition, we understand. Like, humans are smart and they figure stuff out given enough time that it creates a gap where it gets filled in with more sci-fi theories, so to speak. Yeah. When they're not willing to be like, yeah, you know, they saw the sun rise and set. Like, they probably were able to infer it. Then all of a sudden it creates the gap where people are like, oh, well, it was obviously aliens. You know, it's like that, that space. I mean, I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a regular on ancient aliens and I love it, but I don't really talk about aliens. I don't go in there and talk about. I don't talk about UFOs or aliens on my thing. I mean, I've seen a couple of UFOs. I must admit, it's freaked me out. But there's, you know, and, but it proves how sophisticated these ancient people were. If they're being told, oh, it can't have been humans because it proves it must have been super. I mean, look at the pyramids are insane. Yeah. I mean, you just, when I first saw those damn pyramids, oh my God, I couldn't, I couldn't cope. I just literally, I can't deal with this. Yeah. I want to go home. I'm done. I'm done. That's it. You know, I want to just quit this, this, this ancient mysteries, luck, you know, I'm done with it. It's just too much. And then you go inside them. You just go, what on earth were these people thinking? Because these are not temples. Then you go inside them. It's like going into a dirty old warehouse, but precision engineered. It doesn't make sense. Do you have a theory as to what they were for? There's lots of good theories out there. There's one that you like the most. I quite like Chris Dunn's theory and I quite like Jeffrey Drum's theory. Both of them are very interesting because they seem technological. Yeah. So there's a technological aspect to them. No, I should be more precise in the question of what they were originally for. Because I think it's possible that they were for many things over time. Yes. Which I think. Which I think these were as well. Right. And I think that framing sometimes can create like a exclusion where it's like, no, we found a body. And so it's obviously a ritual ground or like, oh, we found elements of, you know, a prayer. So obviously it was a ritual. It was a ritual ground or we found habitations. It was obviously a house. It's like, well, it could have been all those things. Yeah. Multipurpose. That's what I kind of repeat a lot in my talks and stuff like that. Everything's multipurpose. But the original, the original intent is the most interesting. Sometimes we have to consider this is abstract art, you know, and I think a lot of this could be abstract art and we're reading too much into it. So that's awesome. That's a hilarious theory. That could end this conversation right now. I love that. Imagine. That's true, right? You go to like, you know, my friend. Has a giant piece of land out in California and he has artists come and do these giant installations on it. Yeah, exactly. And you go out there and you go, oh, what is this for? And he goes, oh, it's just cool. Yeah. That's it. He goes, yeah. I mean, it tells something about humanity and, you know, we're all going to die and some type of cool artistic interpretation, but it just looks really cool. I think there's an element of that. And I'm serious about this as well. I mean, we can laugh about it, but I think there's a genuine. Whilst they were designing these sacred enclosures and pyramids and such things, there was an abstract of. Let's make it proper cool. Yeah. And arty. I mean, think about the Eiffel Tower. Let's say people discover the Eiffel Tower in 5,000 years and they go, oh, this is a temple. Look what they did here. And it's like, well, it was just cool. Like, why do we build the Eiffel Tower? Well, you could go. Yeah. You go to a football stadium in like, you know, 10,000 years ago. Wow. This must have been a kind of sacred kind of meeting place where ceremonies took place. And in a way they're right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it might be both. So these could have been sports arenas. Who knows? They're built like them. They're built like amphitheater. They really are. I mean, some of them are so big, they've got stepped seats going up and things like this. That'd be so funny. So it was performance, certainly. Imagine you go back and you're like, oh, they're going to be doing a sacrifice here at Stonehenge. And they're like, no, they're playing a version of soccer where they have to kick a ball through the post. That's right. Right. Like there's such an assumption. They're like, oh, these people only were here for the ethereal and the mystical. And it's like, well, it could have been fun. I think this is what the archaeologists are getting at. They're saying that there could be something more kind of basic going on here as well. Coming back to the pyramids, though. Yes. I want to mention, you know, because when you look at them from the outside, it is like abstract art. It would have been these big, you know, the Great Pyramid would have been a white structure, smooth sides, no entrance, golden top on it. The other ones had granite and limestone above them and things like this, different levels of black and red granite. And they do seem like art, huge, ridiculous art. But I'm sure Randall Carlson talked about this. John Michelle also talked about this. They were very deep repositories of information they were like recording everything about mathematics number the cosmos astronomy metrology within the structures themselves which i believe they were doing here and so these were time capsules of high knowledge at a time when the people then had reached this extremely high level of knowledge of sophistication of spirituality and understanding of the earth and the cosmos and they knew perhaps because they were kind of high level people at the time in the future things were going to get dumber we're going to get we're going to forget a lot of this stuff unless we make sure it's preserved somewhere i think the pyramids were part of that especially the great pyramids because when you start looking into that it's insane but i think maybe some of these were like this as well i think they were when they were building them they had this compassionate mindset where they wanted the knowledge they had preserved i believe over thousands of years monumentalizing into one space or several spaces they didn't want to just lose that and people forget that because they probably foresaw that things change people get into different things that they become less interested in the sacred or the numbers and things like this and so they probably had to monumentalize it and then they had to bury it and preserve it pyramids you didn't need to bury them they're made of solid rock anyway forever but one of the uninteresting things about is you go inside those damn pyramids that they don't make sense i mean unless they're each part of it is a geometry has numbers as cosmology within it if it's not that it looks like the interior of a big machine i mean have you been in those i mean my god it's a dream but it's not what you think though it's not so it's not as pleasant as you think it's really hard to get around tiny little channels to walk through it's boiling hot it's like it's like you're being forced into a kind of uh it's like a torture chamber you know it's like it's so difficult to get around it it wouldn't have been a nice place to go meet up but it's not it's not like a temple there's no beautiful things everywhere there's no artifacts there's no paintings it's blank well some of the chambers have paintings right no nothing really you're going to the king's chamber nothing in there it's just one sarcophagus and a room which is a double square which is what we find here as well i mean some of them have been looted as well there was no there was nothing in there there's no there's no there's no artifacts there's no um like bodies were found in there technically right but it could have been looted in antiquity no no this is this is a and it was it was sealed up you gotta remember these were sealed these were hermetically sealed that's where that name comes from no one could get in there until like the 900s a.d no one went in and there was nothing in them when they went in there and honestly they are the strangest this is why i think ancient aliens is exist because of the pyramids it is too strange you cannot the human to comprehend to come up with that as a human being is insane it is just outrageous you cannot comprehend that and certain element gobekli tepe is like that as well it doesn't make sense to come up with why are they in these 18 foot tall thin t-shaped pillars with arms coming down the side with belts on with nothing on the face it's so abstract yeah it's interesting the thing about egypt in particular it always gets me and you can correct me if i'm wrong on this this is i forget who told me this but basically the you have these three kind of periods in ancient egyptian history of the old kingdom middle kingdom and the new kingdom and the pyramids were built in the old kingdom yeah and as time goes on throughout egyptian history the buildings get less and less sophisticated yeah they get less ornate like the greatest achievement of this civilization happens in the old kingdom and then it kind of slowly declines and it seems like a lot of cultures do this where like i think the romans had built some of their most impressive structures early in the civilization's you know sort of history and then they kind of devolve and it's interesting that these cultures have like almost technological decline i think the assumption is that it's the opposite that these people get there they're sort of rudimentary and they build some bad stuff and then it gets better and better and better until it peaks and then there's some type of collapse that happens through disease or war or something like that but it seems to be the opposite they're more sophisticated than they get less that is true that is i think you're right i think that's very interesting because the pyramids themselves if you're just looking at pyramids that is definitely the case although sakara they say was just before uh the pyramids on the giza plateau and a couple of others which are quite sophisticated but so there was a slight but even that alone i mean where did that come from you know you got to question that but i think with uh even with quebec li tepe i mean to me quebec li tepe is well so far what we've seen so far because very little has been excavated of the whole region that seems to be the peak at the very beginning very just boom here we are this is it this is what we're doing for the next 1500 years everything else for 1500 years stays the same and gets slightly worse right over time and i think it's very similar in other places around the world we do find that we find this kind of extreme bang out of nowhere seems to come the best things that culture created yeah why i know it's very bizarre psychedelic spiritual does god come down and tell well this is it this is like we this is why you can understand you know the gods came down and did this or the aliens came because it's so outrageous so advanced so suddenly it raises so many un you know unanswerable questions it's so outrageous so advanced so suddenly it raises so many un you know unanswerable questions it's so outrageous so advanced so suddenly it raises so many un you know unanswerable questions yeah now you mentioned chris dunn and the power plant power plant theory what about that theory do you like the most as far as in reference to the the pyramids of giza well i think when you just look at the nature of the interior of the pyramids like i mentioned you know before i kind of knew anything about chris dunn's work i was going in there and going what on earth is this why why you know come all this way and i'm in some dirt a dusty warehouse i could be in like south london or something like that i mean what is this and and that really kind of baffled me for ages and then i came across his work and i'm like that makes sense it just it just hit me it's like it seems technological and i was starting to get into the understanding of these natural telluric currents the work of john burke seed of knowledge stone of plenty which he talks about the pyramids and it kind of started to make sense and then you look at the machining technology you find in ebay they must have powered that somehow so maybe they developed electricity and had things to cut things with back then the theory being that the size of the structure is able to pull a current from the naturally occurring electric current that's in the earth fundamental that's one of the one of the theories in his kind of general thesis and that that kind of makes it's also like pulling up um uh earthquake energy if you like like you know where you get a lot of movements under the ground and he believed actually stabilized the earth by having it there it was like a plug to like absorb seismic energy which i thought was interesting and then you get the work of jeffrey drum we want to give a shout out to he's doing some very interesting work i don't know if you've spoken to him yet and he is looking at the chemical nature because obviously there's a lot of evidence of chemicals and alchemy you know going into chemistry being used in egypt and and that makes a lot a lot of sense to me as well that kind of fits in quite neatly with chris dunn's idea and i'm quite interested in the technological side of things that fascinates me and i think this is why i'm interested in innovations that came out of places like quebec li tepe because even there they were developing high level innovations for their time one of these for example is terrazzo floors they were creating this lime cement which was waterproof and it was they were building this 12 000 years ago officially the romans invented terrazzo cement so you have to heat up limestone and lime powder or whatever to 850 degrees centigrade which is a lot more i think and and then it burns it and then you add water to it add mud to it sometimes or ochre to color it and you have this perfect cement like almost like a geopolymer if you like and they were some of the floors of some of these enclosures were made with that of quebec li tepe yeah they're perfectly level yes some are some are carved level from bedrock which is impressive yeah it was others are created with this terrazzo which i think is particularly interesting that they were literally pouring cement yes and spreading it out and layering different layers sometimes it was like this thick as well they put large chunks of limestone in as well wow kind of harden it and then have a smooth layer on top they would often leave like a chiano for instance one of the sites they would have um they would leave kind of it would be white then they would have lines in it you know like thick lines which red which they mixed ochre with that section you know abstract places to put certain lines in it's like what the hell is this and so they were doing that as well and i think they were packing the terrazzo around the teeple is to help hold them upright as well is it accepted broadly speaking that this was done by some type of cement yeah it's it's a known fact yeah so now it's completely rewritten in the mainstream archaeological record they're like oh these people were dealing with some type of cement structure yeah they did that yeah for sure because initially before this was discovered it was first discovered in the 80s at a site called navali churi one of the latest sites. It goes back, I'll show you an image of this actually. It goes back to around 8,300 BC. And this is where they first discovered this so-called terrazzo. I don't know if I've got it in here. And that really kind of blew my mind because they've now found older versions of it as well. This is what's so interesting to me. They go back to Gobekli Tepe, they go back to sites before Gobekli Tepe as well. Where is it? I've got it here somewhere. Let me just show you this. But because Nivali Churi is a really intriguing place, I must admit, because- Is it in the same region? This is actually the floor. This is actually a section of it. But they have clean, yes, in the same region, but it's been flooded actually, Nivali Churi. So this is actually what it would have looked like, but it's been flooded by the Ataturk Dam. Oh, really? Yeah, so what they did was, this was actually the first place they found T-pillars back in 1983. Klaus Schmidt and also Harold Hauptmann and the team. And Klaus Schmidt went on to do Gobekli Tepe. But they found square enclosures here. And you see the beginnings of T-pillars. That's all terrazzo, that floor. That floor looks extremely level. Yes. It looks like it could be a Costco or something. Yeah, this is it. So they had perfect leveling. And it was poured. Yeah, and they probably used water to do the levels with. It's quite simple. Yeah, poured and spread, yeah. And this building here, this is 50 feet long. They made buildings. They used the plaster for the buildings with other things. But notice the little buildings. Gaps underneath. This really gets me. Because this is where they think people lived in here maybe. Because this was definitely a settlement. Because it was near water. It was a tributary of the Euphrates called the Kantara Stream. And that would come off and that would feed this whole settlement. But this building here really fascinates me. I mean, it's mostly destroyed. They found just remnants of it. But they found these bits underneath it. And what they found was, and this is another innovation which I'm particularly impressed by. So they would allow, they would control the water coming from the very cold stream. And so the channels would go under the building. Yeah. And then they would, in the building, they would have little bits they could just open up. So the cold water would flow through and it would just cool the air down. So you'd have the first air conditioning going back to 8,300 BC. Yeah, it's pretty cool, huh? That's remarkable. And that's confirmed that they were pulling in this tributary underneath the building. Yeah, the channels there, those channels were for the water. Wow. Wow. I mean, it's like, what do they call them? Like a hydraulic cooling system. Yeah. Like, if you just, even without even opening the thing, if you just have the ground cooled by running water, it's going to make the whole ground really cool. But they found that at that Chianu site as well. They found it there. It's another site. Similar thing. But they found that was more, what they found at Chianu was the same kind of channels, but cool air would flow through it. Wow. And that's where they would keep all the grains and the kind of things to keep them cool. And even, like, dried meats. No way. Possibly as well. Like an ancient refrigeration. Yeah. So, refrigeration, air conditioning, cement. Right. You come in from a long day, you've been out there, you're finding some berries somewhere, you're trying to feed your family, and you pop into here and you lay down on the cement that was poured, that's being cooled through a hydraulic system from a river to now give you a very cooling, relaxing sensation. This is what I mean. Wow. There's something else going on here, you see. This is why, these were, there were some very smart people. Yeah. I mean. Who were very influential here, who just must have come up with this stuff. Yeah. And this type of, I mean, relative luxury, you know? Yeah. I think we assumed that, like, hunter-gatherers in, you know, the Ice Age or 10,000 BC, whatever, they were having a terrible time, they were fighting each other, they were dying all the time, life was miserable. They had plenty of food, they had plenty of fresh running water, I mean. They were hanging out. They had the freighters going right by, clean, fresh water. They had the springs, there was four, four known springs, fresh water in Shanleur, for instance, which is the, I believe, there's so many caves out there, but I believe that was a settlement. Initially, that was one of the earliest settlements. They had a river going through there as well, which is the, you know, the main town you go to now to visit these sites. I found this, this statue, which I thought you might find interesting to look at, because you also have a ponytail, and today, and, but this was found in the niche at the back of that main temple we were looking at. This, this is like a Vedic priest ponytail on a head that dates back to 8,300. This would have been a full human statue. This would have been like a six foot tall, seven foot tall statue. Now, when you say a Vedic priest. Like a Sheikah. It's like a Sheikah kind of thing there. You're saying from like a Hindu tradition? Yeah. So, tell me about the Vedic priests. What do they have? Well, this is, this is what's odd. This is what, something we've been writing about. There's, this was first mentioned by B.G. Siddharth in 19, before Gobekli Tepe was known about, even though it had been excavated a little bit by then. Because Nivali Churi was discovered in the 80s. And this was, this kind of came out in the 90s, early, late 80s. And he, he commented on this in one of his books. And he was, he's an Indian kind of astronomical scholar. And he said, look, this is a statue of a Vedic priest found in Southeast Turkey dating back to 8,300 BC. How is this possible? It doesn't, again, it doesn't make any sense. It could be a massive coincidence. It could be just the symbology they were using. But then, you start looking around the whole region and there's lots of different kind of weird haircuts on these statues. Mohicans, buns, mullets, you name it. All sorts of things going on. These are from various sites, mainly Karahan Tepe, actually, and one from Gobekli Tepe. So what is going on here? So there was like this sort of way of decorating their head. You know, this, you know, certain haircuts, shaving certain areas. And traditionally, this means these were people of an elite priestly shamanic status. The commoners weren't doing this. The local populace weren't doing this. This was the elite. And often these statues, like we saw at the Vali Churi, these were found in very prominent positions, often seated like they were people on the benches at these sites. And at Karahan Tepe, they found multiple of these statues in one enclosure. It's like, whoa, it's like kind of like the ancestors, the gods are with us. Some of these are seven and a half feet tall. So that I find particularly intriguing. And also we have them often holding their phallus. So that we have this kind of symbol of fertility being presented, which interestingly is one of the stories of Enki, who would fertilize the landscape through his own sexual kind of power, which is almost represented here. And then we also have these strange v-necks. Often it's like an insignia. So this is like a different class of people, really. And I think this represents the higher level groups of these potential secret societies that were involved in these cultures. But this one here on the second from right, that's called Urfa Man. That was actually found in Channel Urfa. There was actually a site there in Channel Urfa in the town, which is also the ancient city of Edessa, the birthplace of Abraham. So it has all these biblical traditions. A site called Yemenahali. It's been destroyed now, but we found the site. We found all these kind of little features and cut marks that are still there. Some T-pillars were found there as well. The one on the right there is from Karahan Tepe, seven and a half feet tall. And they also often have ribs showing, which is sometimes a representation of death, but sometimes it's a representation of the ascetic lifestyle, you know, of starving oneself, fasting, and things like this. And also you have the phallus, like very happy-looking phallus doing their thing. Which is a pretty prominent indicator of fertility or birth or creation. Yeah, but they saw it obviously in a different way to we see it today. It was much more part of their culture. It was accepted and things like this. And the one on the, uh, second from right there is from Saberch. This is actually another site. Very important site. Again, we have the V-neck holding the phallus. He has leopards coming in either side of him as well, which we can look at. But I find these particularly interesting because they have shaved heads. Eartha Mann's got black obsidian eyes. And Debbie Cartwright and Andrew Collins noticed that he's not only holding his phallus, he's also, uh, a feminine vulva shape there as well with red ochre. So that is like almost like, uh, androgynous, you know, like male and female or hermaphroditic or something like that representing that. Or it could be someone based on someone who was that back then. You know, you know, we don't know. But I find there's so many details here. I mean, you look at all this going on 9000 BC and then you go to Stonehenge or the Megaliths of Britain. It's hardly anything. That's 5000 years later. So there's, there's so much going on. This was clearly a civilization, you know, to me. It was much more than people realize. But the deep ritual, artistic, and religious culture. So much. I mean, just trying to get into their mindset. And this is all we have. I mean, this is probably 1% of what. Very, very little has been found. Yeah. Or will ever be found, right? I mean, how much has just been destroyed or lost to time and the environment? Luckily, most of it's been deliberately covered up and buried. So we're just waiting. Right. That's what's so, so fascinating about this particular time we're in now, this era. We're in the era of discovery this is it we're in it now so go to turkey in the next few years see it be uncovered this is this is a complete missing chapter of human history this is what people don't realize this entire civilizational culture was buried 8 000 bc 10 000 years ago completely forgotten about until the first inklings in 1963 when they found a couple of what appeared to be t-shaped pillars didn't know what they were then in 1983 in the 80s when they found the valley churi and then in the mid-1990s when they really found quebec li tepe so for that period of time 10 000 years ago up until the present none of this is even in any history books or any records from any culture right so that's what's so weird you know we're entire history of humanity has to be rewritten because of these sites right i think about the thrill that howard carter felt similar thing opening you know king toon commons tomb and discovering this great seal and you know this rush that he got of going into this place and looking into this tomb that's never been opened since it was closed you know however many thousand years ago and that feeling that he got and that type of mystery that that spark that magic is kind of gone it's like all right well egypt's been discovered it's been excavated we have museums there's visitor sites you can buy a ticket and go check it out it's really cool but the thrill is not really there but you're saying right now if you go to southeast turkey you can feel what howard carter felt looking at these ancient sites and what's being uncovered right now if you're lucky you can turn up at the right time and they'll bring in our statue something like this that's never been seen before you know it's like that at the end of the archaeological season they start generally in around what june something like this and they finish generally about now actually going into early november and often i mean i think they're going to make announcements i know about some discoveries that have been found that have they haven't published yet and i have not seen any images of it usually we get the families of the the land owners who we know personally they usually send us stuff in advance but anything you could share they're keeping it kind of stum at the minute because um they want to kind of make a bigger now so i think something's going to be coming out soon but some discoveries have been made this season do you want to see some yeah yes a brand new one i mean before we jump can i just ask you some questions about these yes so so i understand correctly this thing on the back of the head it's the assumption is that that's a ponytail it's a hairstyle yeah and this one researcher is connected to this thing it to the vedic tradition that you have these vedic priests and and sort of the the hindu philosophy that have the same hairstyle that indicates that they're of this sort of enlightened class and the fact that it's showing up in turkey 10 000 years ago and in the vedic tradition starting probably what like five four thousand years ago if that yeah yeah if that would be pushing it and the fact that it's the same hairstyle either these things are being transferred over time through tradition and they're passing these things on to each other like hey the enlightened people look like this and then they inherit it and move it on or for some reason they're not being transferred over time through tradition and they're passing these things and they're independently discovering that this is what enlightened people look like or should should shave their hair to be and why they're both independently coming to that fascinating i mean it is it's fascinating i mean i'm really compelled by this i mean so much so we we looked into it a little bit further we made some other comparisons with vedic um cultures one of the first people to mention this was a good friend charles cost and he believes that the pillar shrine which is where we have the the phallic culture and the phallic culture and the phallic culture and the phallic pillars and the head and the winter solstice illumination he believes that was like an early representation of a shiva lingam that's a shiva which is what we find here on the left these are shiva lingams these are uh traditional temple um installations found throughout india southeast asia they only go back a couple of 3 000 years max but these are really representations of shiva and his poor milk or liquid on top of them and then there would be a yoni next to the lingam which means basically phallus and the yoni would collect the liquid and the liquid would then go in and around phallus to give it the power something like this there's different slightly different interpretations of that and a very similar thing can be found in the pillar shrine where you have what appears to be channel going into it which we saw which is liquid and then the yoni shape with the phalluses within it and then the liquid could go out the other side because these these could easily be have been filled with water as well that's one of the theories actually um i've actually got an image of reconstruction we did of that with kevin esslinger because it does seem like water may have been part of this site and so therefore they could have been seen as a kind of lingam itself and see this is he did he did the reconstruction so he got all the levels correct so you can see he worked out the way the water would move through the site if water was in it and remember this is sealed with bedrock or terrazzo which is waterproof and so and then you have channels there linking up the different enclosures water moving through it and coming through the porthole stone going into the main enclosure there's even little wells inside the main enclosure and so the principles of the shiva lingam appear to be present here within karahan tepe and that really we were like whoa okay that's interesting a especially when you have the Nivali Chori serpent on the back of the head, which is like a kind of Vedic priest ponytail. Is it supposed to represent a serpent? Yes. Is that why the Vedics do it? Yeah. Yeah, or the Kundalini serpent. Right. Yeah. Fascinating. It is fascinating. But again, there was no Vedic culture around potentially at this time. So B.G. Siddharth, when he wrote in 1999, he believed that Vedic culture came, therefore, from Southeast Turkey. Now, he got slammed because of that, because it took away the kind of indigenous element of it. But there's something about that going on here, and there could be a very deep, very ancient connection. Now, I found a couple of obscure academic researchers in India who were looking at the Rig Veda, which is the most ancient text of India, basically, the India subcontinent, which only goes back about 3,000 or 4,000 years, I think, technically. But they now believe that if you look at the cosmology described in the Rig Veda, they're talking about tens of thousands of years ago, going way, way back. And some of the descriptions of the terrain, the weather, climate, and everything else match more Southeast Turkey as it was back then than it did anywhere in India at the time. And so they're like, oh, hang on a sec. There's some genuine academic research being done. Oh, my God. Which is kind of suggesting there could be this odd connection with Southeast Turkey. And if you look at the Silk Road, it kind of does join up, kind of. If you look carefully, look at the maps. Wow. Now, how would this ritual work if we're applying the Vedic tradition again? I know that this is a bit of a speculative kind of connection, but you would fill this up with water, some other type of liquid. The water would then drain out. And would it be consumed or bathed with in order to receive the life force of the spiritual gods who impregnate the earth with creation or something? Yes. Something to that effect. Something like that. I think you could speculate as much as I can speculate on this. I mean, there's something about- This is some type of sacred womb or something. Well, it could be because when we look at the- If this is a winter solstice site, which we think it now is, then that's often related to regeneration, rebirth, being reborn. And so there could have been traditions. We wrote about this in an article. Actually, about the fertility aspects, which could be associated with this site on Graham Hancock's website, actually. And you could speculate that could be the case, that there could be some kind of movement. Because all these enclosures are joined together. This is something that Neshmie Corral has noted as well, that they're kind of joined. They're part of the same system. They could act as locks or something. So there's actually steps going into the pillar shrine on both sides. They're worn, very worn. You can't kind of barely see them, but they are. So people could have climbed down into it and climbed through the porthole stone. They could have followed this ritual path through them. But again, we're guessing here. We don't know. You know, we could be guessing. I mean, just so fascinating, right? That's so, so crazy. Because this dust filled with water. Actually, when we went there in 2021, it had like three or four inches of water in it because it'd been raining excessively for the couple of weeks before. And it wasn't draining out. It took a long time for it to drain out. So- Would it have been possible for them to build a canal? Or is there any evidence of that? Well, there's channels everywhere. Yeah. So it's possible they could have pulled water. Yeah, they could have. They definitely collected water and moved it about. But you need a significant amount of water to fill this up. Like rainwater might not do it. Well, yeah, unless it was- Once in. We think now it was much lusher back then. Right. Yeah. Interesting. But they had these water collection basins, as we saw, the kind of bell-shaped underground features. Right. In the area. Lots of them. The fact that the serpent, I mean, why is it always a serpent? Right? Like what is happening? Why are humans so drawn to these specific creatures and for like their wisdom? Whether it's the Kundalini serpent or the serpents from the Garden of Eden. Yeah. Or even the serpents of the ancient Israelites. Oh, it's a big thing. I mean, serpents are the prominent symbol carved here. And they're carved all over. They always occur. Like I remember even reading, this is a modern kind of sociological study done on dreams. Nightmares and nightmares that humans have the most recurring nightmare across the globe, like in America. It's like teeth falling out in parts of Europe. It's like falling off a building or whatever. But for most of the world, it's snakes. I don't know why. You can look up the study. It's like they took a sample from every nation that they could go to. And they were like, what do you dream about? What are your nightmares? And the most recurring one was serpents. And it's like, why is that drawn in? It's also seen in psychedelic visions as well. All the time. Yeah. So is it like a shared psychedelic experience? And if that's the case, why are all these independent cultures all coming to the same psychedelic experience of the serpent? And sometimes there's a fear associated. Sometimes there's a worship. Sometimes it's both. Like in the Christian tradition, there's kind of a bit of almost like a conundrum in a way where, you know, looking at the two serpents going up the staff was curing the Israelites of what was it? Snake bites, I believe. I forget which story it is. Are you familiar with this? I can't remember exactly what it was. Could you Google that, Christos? Just the story of the. The Israelites looking to the staff. I believe it's the staff with serpents that would cure them of, I think it was snake bites. I think they were getting bit by snakes by looking at the staff that would get cured. And that's the story that's codified in the Bible. And so you have like the serpent that you're afraid of that represents, you know, the devil in the Christian tradition in the Garden of Eden. But then also the serpent is a healer later on in the Old Testament. Just an interesting kind of almost paradox in a way. Because here. Yeah, the Anatolian Viper. This is very prominent here. In fact, I think Andrew's seen one before. And a lot of the depictions of the serpents appear to be potentially the Anatolian Viper. Right. And it's poisonous, you know. Yeah, Viper sounds bad. It's not pleasant. And he believes actually that the whole shape of the pillar shrine and the sort of serpent carving coming off the back of it is that of an Anatolian Viper. He believes that they were. It was almost like a worship thing. Mm-hmm. Where they had that. Because there's so many carved there. It's like. The ancient Amazonians have a lot. A lot. A lot of the lore that the Amazon River is the, you know, the moving of a great serpent. Yeah. That carved through. Yeah. The serpent symbolism is pretty, pretty full on there. It's repetitive. At many other sites. I mean, there's multiple serpents carved all over. Quebecly Tepe as well. Yeah. Yeah. Like one pillar may have like 30 serpents all like writhing together throughout it. So this is the story that I was mentioning before. During Exodus, the Israelites grew angry and complained against God and Moses in response. God sent venomous, fiery serpents that bit and killed many people. That's not good. After the people repented, God told Moses to craft a bronze serpent and mount it on a pole and anyone who looked at it would be healed. Fascinating. So it's like, okay, the serpents are obviously either symbolic or metaphorical evil, but also the cure. But that's, that's also the, I'm pretty sure that's the symbol of Enki as well. Mm-hmm. The Enki, I mean, maybe you want to have a quick Google AI overview of that, but because the staff. The straight pole with the writhing serpent is often depicted, that was one of Enki's, the Sumerians' symbols as well. I'm pretty sure of it. I think this was from Christian O'Brien's book. So I don't know if it's agreed upon online or not. Yeah, it could be like, but it's not Zachariah Sitchin, by the way. Yeah. The primary symbols associated with the mess of the human God, Enki, that feature a staff rod or a pole include the ram-headed staff, the rod and the ring, the sacred punt pole. Um, depicted heavily in the Muslim art, a straight yardstick with a ring, um, the classic icons represent Enki with the goat or the fish, turtle flowing streams of water, but I'm not sure. I mean, it's possible. It wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. I mean, I've got an image of it somewhere, but yeah, there is some. Could you search snake? There are some depictions. And just see if that comes up with anything. Um, Sumerian God comes up. This is, um, it doesn't seem like it's, oh, wait. The Chicago Syrian dictionary note that in certain ancient context, Enki is described as having a snake-like head or being associated with snake dragons. Uh, the intertwined serpent on the staff, the specific symbol of two snakes wrapped around a straight pole, the earliest precursor to the Greek Cajasus. Enki's son. Originated from Enki's son. I don't know if you want to give that a, a try. The pronunciation of the underworld God. Oh my God. Originally directed by Enki's son, the Sumerian. The Sumerian healing and underworld God, Nengishda. Interesting. Okay. There's, yeah, there's a lot going on there. So fascinating. Like why is, why always the serpent? The serpent is everywhere. I mean, it's like, this is something that Andrew goes into a lot in his latest book on Karahantepe because he's found it. You get even cultures now, like the Yazidi culture who are prominent in Kurdish, Turkey and Northern Iraq and other places where she'd go to this Kurdish village on a tour sometimes as well. And they, they still have like this. This, this black writhing serpent as their primary symbol as well. Fascinating. Yeah. It's everywhere. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's to do with wisdom. I mean, fundamentally, but it's to do with many other things, but it's really a sim fundamentally the highest level of it is to do with retaining of wisdom and knowledge and things like this. Even if you look at the garden of Eden, right. It's still kind of connected to wisdom or knowledge rather that you have the serpent convincing Eve and, you know, later Adam to eat from the fruit of knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously from the Gnostic tradition, they interpret that whole story very differently. We don't need to go into detail, but I think it was a mushroom, but okay. I mean, perhaps, right. Quite possibly more likely. Yeah. So can you tell me what's being discovered now? All the stuff we were looking at is further down the hill. That's what the pillar shrine, the main enclosure structure, a D a B. This is up the hill. This was discovered a couple of years ago. They started excavating this. So they're doing some serious excavation here. They found this seven and a half foot statue. Uh, which one is as the ones to the left, the one at the back behind. The green tent. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I see the arms. So yeah, phallus as well as this dude here on the right and notice on here, this is. You might be interested in this. Look at the, he's got like a beard. He's got like, but not a normal beard. He's got just that kind of beard. I've seen that before, like a Sphinx beard, like a Egyptian beard. And there's another statue was found with one on as well on the left, both from Karahan Tepe. So that is odd. I mean, that's like a sort of fake Sphinx beard and this is the context it's in. This is in this enclosure. You've got a giant porthole stone there as well, which goes. Slightly off north, which Andrew's worked out is aligned with Cygnus. He's done a whole lot of research on that. This was also found in the same enclosure. It's almost like a life-size statue they thought was female until they noticed his phallus he was holding, which they all seem to do. And this is another area here, just further down here. And you can see the face on that T-pillar. So that face on the one at the back there, that is the first T-pillar they've actually found as an actual face carved on it. Interestingly, the shape of the face is a T, so that it's a T-pillar with a T-shaped face with a T-pillar. And so it was always known that these T-pillars were anthropomorphic. They were kind of representing humans. You find arms and ribs and belts and ribs and everything else. And sometimes, you know, the V-neck and garments, but no face, never a face until that one. So this is the first one that this is probably a later enclosure. That's probably one of the later ones. These have just been erected as well. They're just starting to. They're starting to re-erect giant T-pillars and glue them back together. These are fallen over and then they put them back up. They're doing a lot of that there, actually. But this is one of the new discoveries. This is a square, very beautiful, wonderful square chamber. This is just a little video clip of it. It's a bit dark, but you can kind of make it out. Yeah. And in the corner there, in that corner bit on the left where them little sandbags are, there's a secret chamber under there. Perchance. And we made, there was this newspaper report came out first. What lies beneath Karante? I know, we couldn't believe it. This came out in July and we were like, what? How, what the hell is this? And it just got, no one noticed this coming. It just came out and sort of vanished. We found it and we thought, what the hell is this? Who published this? This is just in one of the archaeo news in Turkey. Anatolian archaeology? Yeah. Yeah. So this is kind of what we think it kind of would look like. Something similar to this. We created this possibly underneath and we did a bit of reading up on it as well. They think it's just a fairly small, you know, not too big or anything, but it has channels leading into it. And they were supposed to, they found it actually at the end of the excavation season last year in 2025, but then they kept it quiet and they're supposed to excavate it this season, but there's been no announcement if they've done it yet. And that's the end of now we're reaching the end of the- So we're waiting for something. Yes. Hopefully something will come along. A large stone basin that was found beside a channel appears to have carried liquid through the building. The corner room was specifically scheduled for excavation, 2026. It doesn't identify the chamber by its excavation code. Wow. So yeah, there's speculating at the bottom. The liquid channel suggests larger buildings accommodated organized communal activity, maybe food preparation, ceremonies, offerings, or other practice can only be determined after the deposits have been successfully excavated. It's very cool, huh? Wow. So that's the tip of the iceberg. All right, so we've got, so let's just have a look at this enclosure, which is pretty amazing. You have these beautiful stone plates, which are made of all these different types of stone, often placed in specific positions. Much of this is carved from bedrock. So this is all shaped. This is quite a rare, unusual design. This is something like from ancient Sumeria and another view of it there. And this underground chamber potentially is, we know of some other ones. Do you want to? See some stuff? Yeah. Yeah. So we have the famous sites like Derinkuyu. This is like in Cappadocia. Mm-hmm. Entire underground cities, like six, seven levels down. You can only go to the fourth level, but there's seven levels down. Carved out bedrock, limestone, everything else. It's actually tough stone, T-U-double-F stone. And we've already seen that over on the hill opposite, we have these kind of things, Akechli Tepe. But also, this is, I think, what's really annoyed, probably why they don't like me particularly much, is this is actually a tunnel we discovered next to one of the main Tastabala sites in Turkey. It goes all the way down. It's just a video clip. It's easy just to show you the video clip. And this goes over 100 feet down at a 40, 45-degree angle. And it's carved all the way, and these are some of the artifacts discovered in the area. It goes all the way down, and it's just carved out of bedrock. And then at the end, it turns right, but there's too much rubble in it to go any further. And this has not been excavated. This has not been properly documented. And yet it's there, and it could be as old as 11,000 to 12,000 years. It's said it was possibly a well. There's some weird scans we got while we were there. We thought that was kind of cosmic. But it doesn't make any sense. There's no explanation for it. There's all these niches carved into it. So it could be a well. It could be a simple well, but it's a very large, elaborate well. It could be later. It could be Byzantine or Roman. We don't know. But we got in there a couple of times, had a good look at it, and we're like, this is really interesting because it's right next to a brand-new site that's being excavated. It's just begun, basically. So that alone suggests there's something profound going on here. Wow. And there's Andrew kind of looking down in the tunnel there. I mean, that's remarkable. That is pretty crazy when you kind of think about it. And has this been, like, published, like, this type of tunnel? Like, it's just you guys just happened to find it? Well, we heard about it. There's him at the bottom. There's Andrew at the bottom. Because local peoples, I'm sure. Local people know about it, but they don't think anything of it. They think it's just some random well or something like that. But we were like, oh, my God, because the location of it. And it's kind of secret. You can't see it because it's got trees all over the top of it. Wow. So then there was a site called Saybirch as well, where there's more underground stuff going on. This is this site here. Where we have this beautiful – I'm actually in an enclosure here. You can actually see the enclosure. This is the 3D scan I got of it. That's what the name means as well. That's an unusual name. Say means counting. Birch means sign of the zodiac. Also tower. And there used to be a tower there that got dismantled. So there would have been T-pillars in here all around the edge and everything else. The whole house got removed because this was – a village was built over this site. Oh, wow. We've got another view of it here. And you can see it's got a well in it. It's got lots of seats and niches. And actually, the Romans came right up to this area and actually quarried right up to the edge of this. And they left it. And they left it. So I think the Romans discovered Tastepala. Wow. That's my theory. I need to get more data on that. Now, are there, like, rock deposits of all these, like, monuments? Like, they have to dig into the bedrock. Where does all that earth go? I'm not sure. But I think they make the sites out of it. They make the T – so they'd lift the stone out. They'd make T-pillars out of what's coming out of there. I think that's what they were doing. They weren't wasting anything. But, for example, like, that stone kind of cave, that tunnel they were in. Is it possible that was, like, a quarry? They were digging out, like – Could be. It could be. Maybe making the cement from that raw material or something? Could be something like that. We just don't know. Is this bedrock here? Or is that – This is carved out of bedrock. Wow. Yeah. And even – it's even got a – very interesting geometry associated with it as well. So we're finding the same geometry here. You see the square bits on the top right and over on the left? That's the Roman quarry. They got that close to it. Oh, wow. They literally stopped right there. Yeah. This was so bizarre, you know? So it's not that they missed it? I think they saw it. And they kept – they left it. They didn't want to interfere with it. They probably – there was some kind of supernatural tradition associated with it. They didn't want to go near it. And right – so much so, that this is the – supposedly the Roman quarry, that they actually found this little thing here, which is this. This is clearly a Tastepala carving. It's of the same style. It's got like the serpent head, the mushroom head, amoeba type thing with all these little dots around it. How big is this? It's probably this big. Okay. It's like two or three feet wide. So that is kind of bizarre. Weird. Yeah. And then – Can you point to me where the serpent – sorry, it's kind of moving, so I'm not sure. Yeah, when it stops. I kind of see like a – Yeah, it's almost like a sort of – you see the shape there? Mm-hmm. And then it's got two bits coming in. That, they think, is a shape of a serpent's kind of head, like a viper's head. I see. Similar. I mean, it's vague. Yeah, it's difficult to really make out, but it's interesting. You can see that there's something carved into it. Yeah. And then this is some of the other discoveries they're making in a different area at the site. This dude was – This dude was found as well, which is pretty interesting, like C-3PO. Wow. And they've actually found the rest of the body for that now. And again, those kind of rib things. Rib things. He's got a sewn-up mouth as well. He's got a sewn-up mouth. It looks like it's sewn? Yeah. And he's also got like shells as eyes. So this is like traditionally a death symbol, which we get in the Levant as well. T-pillars again. Yeah, these have just been excavated. Wow. So this – And you see the ground level. And you see how they've had to go into the ground and get all this. And there's a giant enclosure there as well. And this is where the brand new discovery is that they haven't revealed yet. And they've covered it up with sheets so you can't see it. They wouldn't let anyone take photos. What do you think is in there? Don't know. I've heard what's in there. I can tell you. What is it? There's supposed to be a male and a female carving together in certain positions. In 3D relief. This is what I've heard. I know someone who saw it and took a sketch of it and showed me it. Male and female and like a – But that's all I know. Some type of like sexual thing? Don't know. But it's definitely male and female, which is unusual to have them together. You would typically see male and you'd see female separately? Mostly as males, to be honest with you. It's only very rare you see females at all. Although there are some that – one or two that have been found at Gobekli Tepe. And also – and so if you go through here, this is – remember, this is behind that enclosure. Which we looked at, the main enclosure. You go in there, you see all this, and you go down these steps. Ancient coffee cup. And then you – and then you have this. So that's on the ceiling of it. This is the chamber underneath Seyberch. And you'll get to see more of it in a moment. There's these strange striations on the wall there. Probably from the carving initially. Yeah. Just – yeah. Just – just a clue. Just carving it out. So this isn't the best shot. I've probably got some better ones in a moment. But I think you get to see the whole room in a moment. Yeah. So it's quite a big room. And this is underneath which structure? Well, it's just behind the first one we looked at, Seyberch, with the kind of 3D reliefs on it. And that's where – that's the way we came down. But all within Sar Tepe. Seyberch. But what is the name of the – Oh, the whole Tas Tepla region. Tas Tepla. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, we have – we have more of it here. Let me just show you some photos. I think it's easier. That's actually – that actually goes up to the surface. So you can actually see the light at the top there. So that would have been like kind of water coming in there. How did they dig that out? I don't know. I mean, that's a long – you need something with a pole. I mean, the archaeologists think this could be Roman perhaps. But we're not so sure because of the other underground stuff that's now coming out of Karahantepe and other places. Right. And no one's allowed in here at all. There's another level down there. I mean, maybe the Romans kind of used it. They used it as like a settlement while they were quarrying, something like that. I don't know. I think it's part of Sayburg itself. You've got a bench there as well, which you find at some of these sites. You've got these kind of circles carved out there. Pretty epic when you kind of start looking into it. So there's this series of underground areas now in Tas Tepla, which are really interesting. And what are the theories as to what they were used for? There's no theories. No one has any theory? I could throw some out. Yeah. I mean, well, meditation pods, water storage, food storage, secret initiation chambers. There's lots of different ideas. But I think- Safety or something? Like if you have like raiders or something, like, hey, let's all go to the safe house. Could well be, yeah. Especially when you consider that the underground cities of Cappadocia, although they're much further to the west, they've actually found some over here towards the east. They found them in a place called Midyat. Which is further east than the whole Tas Tepla region, but not far. It's actually near some of the other sites near the Tigris River. They found an entire underground city there. They haven't dated it yet. So we know that they're happening. And I've heard that some of these underground cities potentially, I think Graham floated the idea of, you know, some type of, you know, celestial activity, the asteroid, something like that. Yeah. Protecting from- The end of the Younger Dryas. Right. Yeah, yeah. Quite potentially, yeah. That could be the case. Because that would have been happening just before all this stuff was being built. And they're like, hey, remember when we survived that crazy meteor shower? Well, we should be prepared. prepared for that if that happens again yeah yeah for sure and there's there's some other sites some other new discoveries you want to have a quick look at these yeah if they're going to blow my mind like this I mean I mean they're not as impressive as this uh but one of them is called a yanlahoyuk this is only just started being excavated uh this is close to say Birch it's not too well it's about three or four miles north of say Birch and it's thought now that this could be the largest of all the sites in the region even bigger than gobekli tepe Turkish Japanese excavation yes that's right and all the Japanese are involved I trust the Japanese they're real deliberate surgical kind of well yeah I mean all respect to the Turks but the Japanese are surgeons but you had the Germans working at gobekli tepe for years you have the Chinese coming in you have English excavators as well this is a really a multinational it is now it's becoming this really huge story and like you know in archaeological terms as well but I've been visiting here for many years years before they started excavating and we actually got to know the the locals like we always do and uh guess what we found a tea pillar lying on the ground just sitting there just sitting there on the ground yeah unbelievable and then uh and brand new it's still there I mean that was 2022 I took that photo and then JJ was actually the one who spotted it I was the driver she was the teeth pillar spotter driving past and she found it so but I wanted to show you that there's another site called just this near here called yogam Birch and this is one of the 12 test tabular sites they're investigating again we've been visiting here for a few years but couldn't really see anything but now they're officially doing it initial findings emerged Chinese archaeologists are searching for traces of Neolithic age at what do you call yogam Birch yogam Birch and this is not not too much has been found so they're just doing this small area here for now and this is the main dude behind it wow he looks pretty on it um and yeah they found a few things they found this uh boar jaw which I thought was interesting wild boar because the ball symbol is found all over these sites that ball statue was found at gobekli do they still have wild boar out there I don't know if they do now I'm not sure well I couldn't answer that but there's lots of other features in the area like this although these could be again Roman there's lots of sort of rock cut features um troughs laying around the village there's these strange stones and rock cut areas you also get this up on the hill where the the excavation near the excavation there's even caves here as well but these are more likely to be later we're not convinced these ancient there's Andrew just looking at what potentially is the the beginnings of a t-shaped pillar these we think are later though because the Romans and Byzantines create Graves in this area wow but just interesting to see that because no one else is no one's going no one else has been here apart from the archaeologists no one's taking photos um we we kind of make we always make an effort and go and visit as many sites as we can whenever we go there these images are not really available these are mine wow he's all mine well apart from the area ones there from the archaeology of course yeah and um yeah so any stuff like this you've got these giant blocks covering up these giant water areas with shaping around it possibly where t-pillars came from like the quarry where they got them yeah possibly then you have these cut marks we know this is super ancient because you get these cut marks at here and you get them all the sites you know this is something you find in British sites as well other parts of the world but it's a definite symbol of tas tabula all the sites appear to have these cut marks no one knows why well no one's sure I mean JJ has got a theory on them and this is based on the work of Maria gimbutus who was this um female scholar who focus on goddess cultures before this time you know going back into the mesolithic paleolithic and they're thought to be water collection stations but it's sacred water it's like the dew gets collected overnight and then it's used for healing and things like this but there are other theories lots of theories about what they're used for could you throw out some others well there's ideas that these were divination pools so when the water would collect they would do divining things like this they would also um some people suggest these are representations of star constellations other people suggest oils and even foods and herbs or spices were put in them as well I know they cooked in this area so there's lots of uh more esoteric more practical purposes but the fact is at gobekli Tepe for instance you find these cut marks carved on tops of the tea pillars like right on top the very top thin top of the tea and so what on earth is that I mean it could connect back to that Vedic the idea we were talking about yeah yeah like kind of collecting kind of sacred water either it's you know some type of like phallus interpretation this is sort of like the life force of creation and of healing or perhaps it's a almost like a crown chakra if they are sort of you know more like anthropomorphic deities and that this comes from like the top of their heads yeah something to that effect it could well be but I mean they're scattered everywhere I mean you go to Karahan Tepe you can't miss them they're all over the place sometimes they're actually carved inside the enclosures right which is strange they couldn't be naturally occurring no not these ones no there are some that are natural but these ones aren't this is clearly an array of cut marks um and we're actually looking over this we're in Jogan Birch but we're looking over the hills over there actually Ian lahoyek in the distance wow so it's all part of the same thing same area so just west of chandelier for just west of Quebecly Tepe so there's a lot going on there and this lovely sunset we got there as well on the last visit I mean just wild it's wild yeah I mean there's more sites there's chakmak Tepe that's older than all these slightly older but no tea pillars to be found there there's a cycle testly Tepe which has just got a few tea pillars scattered around piled up in in rock piles in the village which we've looked at we've seen we know we've seen there there's another site called Kurt Tepe which we've which is just in the middle of nowhere we've not been able to get to but no excavations takes has taken place yet there's a site called Harbet Zoo van to Pessy this is not too far from carahan Tepe and they they've started uncovering enclosures there I'm not sure if I've got an image of it here or not I don't think I have and they found um quite a few square enclosures there it's like it's almost like a satellite site of carahan you know they're going to build something there so people can visit quite large tea pillars there they found some fertility type statues there in the past I'll cover that briefly in the book um and there's there's quite a few other little places they're starting to look at now Mendic Tepe is another one I mean it's just a massive sprawling complex of civilization there's a lot going on I mean a lot more than people realize and I think this is why it's so important that these are all sites I mean there's more um sephir tepe is a really interesting one as well there's some excavation happening now for the last three years or so so there's a whole lot going on there as well that's not too far from carahan so that's going to become like a visitor center that place you can visit I mean in about five years time several of these are going to have proper visitor centers built right you'll be able to visit them buy tickets and all this kind of thing if you had to guess if we flash forward a hundred years from now and all of this is properly excavated and they release all the information how do you think the understanding of archaeology changes like if we go to a history book in 150 years what is what does it say that's true yes good question that I well I think this is an entire missing chapter it's only a 1500 year chapter but it's missing and they're gonna eventually say I believe that and what we're saying that this is the world's first civilization it's not just a culture it's not just a society it's not just a kind of settlement series of settlements we're going to say this is the world's first civilization but you have to re-term civilization a little bit because civilization was based upon suma it's based upon Egypt and things that were found there different things are being found here and you can clearly see that there's connections between all these sites they're not only the same symbols the same T pillars the same artifacts same style there's roots between them so I believe that they were traveling around through the year and maybe not living at one site particularly they were kind of moving about and staying at different sites for hunting reasons for migration of birds and animals and plants being grown in certain areas at certain times depending on the altitude and things like this and I think these were like pilgrimage routes between them they weren't just different settlements with different people I think there was this hunter-gatherer Vibe continued to some extent and they kept moving between them they weren't although they were built structures to sleep in I don't think they would live in there even that's what the archaeologists say and also but so I think the future books are gonna are going to redefine civilization and this is going to be the first one and it's gonna then make us have some understanding now if they if my research or JJ's research gets accepted like the geometry the Earth measurement the astronomy that kind of stuff then all of the discoveries of like new grains Stonehenge and the pyramids are going to have a predecessor which makes sense and i think that's what's important to realize this is the predecessor this is where it kind of really came together and exploded from this point in time and space i can't wait to see if you're right yeah i see if we live that long uh you have this can people purchase this now yeah that's that's the wooden book that's um uh the small book that came out in late 2023 it's been updated recently because you have to keep updating them all the time every year it seems and i'm working on a book with jj ainsworth with the working title um test table of super civilization and we're going to get into all this kind of stuff jj has got some remarkable research that i'm sure when the book comes out i could she'd be interested in talking with you about which is more focused on the intricacies of the golden gate of the ecliptic and the astronomy and the symbolism which is um very deep very good stuff and you also have this one oh we have the giants you wouldn't talk about the giants yes so this is a book uh a couple of books i've written with jim viera who's a good friend a colleague of mine we uh spent a few years working we had a tv show on history channel called search for the lost giants as well and i'm really interested that's another subject that's probably why the archaeologists don't like me because i've written about giants in the past but trust me this that that is a weird subject when you get into it my god i mean is there a version that you could give me that would be compelling in in short i i'm i mean there's hundreds of pages in this book here so i don't expect you to give me the entire thing if you've got a couple more minutes i do we can give you an interesting summary now this is um myself i became interested in this through the work of ross hamilton he wrote a book called a tradition of giants which has now been republished i think called turtle island and a tradition of giants by inner traditions people can buy that i recommend it he inspired me to look more cleverly and i think it's a really good book and i think it's a really good book to read and i think it's a really good book to read and i think it's a really good book to read at these accounts he'd uncovered he'd uncovered many accounts of actual seven to ten foot tall skeletons coming out of the mounds of north america i couldn't quite believe what i was reading when i read this back in like 2007 or something then i met up with jim viera who was also researching the megaliths of new england and new york state because there's a whole bunch of very interesting sites in this area and he kept coming across these obscure accounts of giant skeletons being discovered and i think it's a really good book and i think it's a really good book dug up by people who are moving into these places several hundred years ago so we eventually met up that conference i put on in 2011 in glastonbury connectica and we kind of put our heads together i thought well we need to put something together because i'd started looking into it he'd collected hundreds of accounts in town and county histories academic journals doctor's reports newspaper articles and there's too many to say these were all just fabrications to sell newspapers because some of them you know page nine of a local newspaper just a little section saying oh when we were digging the foundations of the house dr jones found a nine-foot tall skeleton and we're like what the hell and so we started collecting them in great depth and realized there's something odd going on here we need to look so we dug into it proper and this is where this book manifested where are the remains now most of them have gone because of nagpra the native american graves protection and repatriation act which emerged in 1990 so all native american grave goods and bones are taken away and reburied but many of them were on display before that in doctors places universities museums they there's photos of them about we've got a few in there and um but most of them you have to be really careful because you can get arrested for that kind of thing nowadays for being having anything like that in your possession right and even in the smithsonian's own annual reports and these were the people who suppressed it there are actual accounts 17 accounts of between seven and eight foot tall skeletons in smithsonian's own annual report yeah this is one we discovered on microfilm when we were looking yeah so this is i think an eight and a half foot skeleton it says there's a six foot tall less eaten lying next to an eight foot skeleton in dr parker's office that's tip of the iceberg and that's just this is just north america now the thing about north america is is that we're not just talking about the mound culture people we're talking about the entire country we've got accounts from we go to each state one by one and uncover them catalina island all the way to maine and other places only north america oh that's just that book but there's other accounts throughout the world yeah we've done another book called the giants of stonehenge in ancient britain which jim was supposed to bring one to me but that's why you haven't got it here it's his fault it's your fault jim and uh and that is all about the british isles and parts of europe same thing same story everywhere you go you find it now we're quite sensible allegedly but you know we're not we're not we're not going to kind of go into something and fabricate anything we do not like to fabricate anything we're very diligent we debunk many famous giant accounts in this book you know right at the beginning of the book just to make it clear these ones we don't think are real but the rest of them let's take a closer look because these really are interesting and some of them are so grand so big it's like bizarre some have double rows of teeth right some have extra digits on their hands like what is the skeptics approach to all these news articles they think everything is made up and it's a hoax that there were hoaxes to sell papers and to sensationalize something or you know i don't know i don't know i don't know maybe they found a tall skeleton that was six and a half feet and then they exaggerated it and said eight or that's what they say but when you look at the research we've done you can clearly see that well-known doctors anthropologists archaeologists surgeons a document in this do you have a theory as to why it's being covered up that is a good question and we have a chapter in that called the smithsonian files and we kind of try and look into that but we see it as a more of a series of unfortunate agendas coalescing rather than a conspiracy these include the manifest destiny agenda these include uh the some of the people coming into the smithsonian in the 1910s to the 30s he was a pre-nazi eugenicist and uh he was fairly racist yeah and so he didn't want any native american to be a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the smithsonian and he was a part of the native americans to be superior to the white man interesting that that kind of thing so that's this is very basic summary but there's a lot there's lots of yeah of course lots of nuances to that you know which you can people can get this is broad strokes i don't expect you again this could be a whole three episode series yes you could seriously get into it and there's researchers now um who are digging out more accounts there's more accounts coming out as we speak and and it's astonishing to me um and i find it another missing chapter of history this is what i kind of like to focus on you know what's been missing here this is a testable is brilliant because it's been literally covered up physically and we can go in now it's all coming out we can talk about it but this has been covered up in a slightly different way right in a more conspiratorial way and it's collaborative across cultures and institutions i don't know if it's i don't even know or is it just aligned agendas across all i think it's just unfortunate agendas like even evolution it didn't fit in with the theory of evolution because you don't not supposed to have giants sitting around and mounds and things like that and so that evolution you have manifest destiny you have uh racist agendas against the native americans and things like this and also there's but then you have the nephilim right so the so that's what's strange because there's christian based stories and so right if you're a christian you kind of accept that there was large peoples now how tall they were exactly this is why i'm baffled why it got so suppressed because because that in the last 20 years the whole nephilim thing with researchers even in the modern day like there's several people i know like timothy alberino like steve quayle and la missouri and others they follow that line which is interesting we don't go that route personally but we are we do touch on it because we're not going to go that route there are parallels to that um but it baffles me why it was so covered up if that is a christian thing because christianity is always present in north america right so i don't know why so so we we we get into it we question it we answer what we can but there's some open questions that still is not clear right we find it you know to me it's like when i first met jim he was doing something called the daily jim giant this was a facebook daily post for nearly two years of a giant account per day and so and and that and it got to a point where it became this kind of if you can call it a facebook sensation and it just it gets so many accounts you can't not believe it it's too many you can't believe people will make this up like an obscure place in san diego then a place in maine a hundred thousands of miles apart coming up with the same principles of double rows of teeth is there any other right it doesn't make sense and so that kind of drilled into me there's something profound and i think if you just get presented one account then another you get to a point where you realize there's a story here and this is what we we that's when we put the books together is it possible that there just were some people that were exceptionally tall like the dutch like if you go through like their bones like the average height is like what 5 10 or 5 11 or maybe even taller i think i yes clearly i mean very much so like when you say giants i think people assume like you know the cyclops of odysseus we're talking anything over seven feet you know we're very clear on that what we get into i forgot to mention that but anything over seven feet is of real interest to us if you meet a seven foot person you know about it yeah it's pretty unique yeah i mean that's not that's the lowest in our book you know we don't go anything below seven foot but then when you get eight and a half feet regularly like a whole bunch of skeletons found in one man which eight and a half to nine and a half feet tall you take notice what's the tallest person walking around right now i think it's eight i think it's eight point eight and eight foot eight i think it's a guy in turkey all right you might want to check him out there's a guy in turkey he's a tall man he's a tall man he's a tall man person alive he's still around he's doing things oh you never believe what happened once oh my god maybe i've got the photo in here i don't think i've got it in it oh yes you've got to put this in i went to stonehenge all right so stonehenge right it's called the oldest name of stonehenge it's called the giants dance where welsh choreo gigantum that's the earliest known name it was said to have been built by giants the giants this is all from this 12th century book the history of the kings of britain they brought the stones over from the furthest reaches of africa they these giants did built it in ireland a place called killer roost eventually merlin bought them over using his magic and skills and everything else and placed them on salisbury plain and it was known as the giant's dance and so there's this old image of a giant lifting one of the lintels into place with merlin and king ambrosius all this stuff and um and there's other stories of giants associated with stonehenge we found a skeleton a nine foot four inch skeleton was unearthed in 1719 there was a 14 foot 10 inch skeleton unearthed in the early 1500s 14 foot 14 foot 10 inches by thomas elliott who was a famous scholar he wrote the first latin dictionary he was an mp for cambridge so he witnessed documented that and so we wrote this whole book with the giants of stonehenge and ancient britain this is a whole thing i went to stonehenge once on the summer solstice with jj my partner we're there she bumps into this seven and a half foot dude it was just like this really well proportioned giant she's like you know five foot six or seven she's like she gets cool photos with him she kind of grabs him and said we've got to find you he was written a book about you mate and she went looking for me she couldn't find me and then and then by the time she found me the giant had left no so i missed the giant of stonehenge at stonehenge on the solstice come on believe that but jj got a photo with with him so wow that is remarkable that's so funny you're holding it up you're holding it up you're holding it up you're holding it up whole life's work i know to find this one guy and then jj does it classic right wow it's just remarkable yeah i guess like what happens to this 14 foot skeleton found i mean granted it's a long time ago but you would think that would be preserved somewhere so there's a fascinating story with that it's very quick yeah so when thomas elliott was involved in this discovery i know where it was it was a place called ivy church priory you can go there there's nothing there now obviously and this was quite deep in the ground it was in a log coffin like an oak kind of trunk coffin if you like sarcophagus if you like and it had this book with it was found it had all these strange inscriptions which kind of crumbled to dust and this tin and lead mix disc was found with all these inscriptions on it like a shield which i i don't possibly yeah but it looked quite thick that the story goes and it looks like it was it could have been canonite writing or something because there's these weird canonite connections which we get into in our giants of stonehenge book and they all vanished eventually but this was on display people went to witness this thomas elliott was famous scholar he wrote about it in his diaries it was recorded by william camden he was another writer and explorer at the time this is all in the early 1500s right and so this became a thing and like the other descriptions said it was 12 foot 10 inches one description said it was 13 foot 10 inches but thomas elliott's description was 14 foot 10 inches which i thought was odd so either they got it wrong but even so 12 foot 10 inches is pretty damn tall yeah and it eventually crumbled to dust and there was nothing left there and so this and this is just one story of this whole area and um so what do you make of that so one of the things as well in the early 1500s the skeleton crumbled to dust yeah eventually it kind of just got too much air around it disintegrated this happens a lot with these so-called giants but in the early 1500s there was a lot of giantology going around the planet because of the explorers that were going everywhere so you have you know all the explorers going to the americas north central south america even to patagonia witnessing live giants in fact in the book you have in your hand there we have a chapter called early explorers of explorers who meet live giants and battle with them and have experiences with them and like have to deal with them and like there's a whole story about this guy named lusa for instance who uh went into this like waged a war against these invaders these europeans they had to hunt him down and you know and everything else he had to go into hiding and his son had to take on the battle and all this kind of stuff we have the stories of john smith up in uh further you know in the virginia area we have the stories of the red-haired giants of the area around lovelock cave and things like this we have even even like sir francis drake when he arrived in san francisco he went all the way around you know down past patagonia and back up again he witnessed giants in the san francisco area like seven foot tall people there's even there's even illustrations of osage or i think osage indians with the presidents in the early 1900s of a seven feet tall and so there's a remarkable story there and so we that's what we did we put it together wow so the most sober version of this is like okay there were very tall people and for whatever reason some cultures grew to be seven foot tall or six and a half feet tall on average and they were just exceptionally tall yeah and living in north america absolutely yeah and what one of the things that ross hamilton came across and this was going back to the work of vine deloria jr who wrote a book called red earth white lies i highly recommend it and he at the time i think it was in the 60s he was doing this he was interviewing these really old native american elders who were he was getting all these old stories from but because he was native american lakota sue himself he was able to get the kind of secret stories out of them as well and this is where lots of the stories of these giants kind of came from the ross hamilton then put in his book then we kind of put in our book and that really blew our minds because they were talking about giant humans existing at the end of the last ice age seriously and this is i think i think i might have told randall about this randall carlson because they talked about a time called the black tent where all the megafauna either vanished or shrunk in size so did the giant humans they shrunk in size the black tent was supposed to be the cataclysm the time of the kind of dust clouds over north america when impacts were taking place and so forth wow so effectively what happened to the megalodon that you know kind of the only version of that type of shark species that was able to persist were much smaller a similar kind of idea yeah the larger people were unable to procreate and you know carry on in this new environment and so some survived you know some and got through and like uh you know and then we have the denisovans as well who are now thought to be much much taller this is andrew collins and greg little done a lot of work on this their molars are huge yes but they found actual kind of skulls now wow yeah and leg but an arm bones i think or leg bones i think leg bones so the most eccentric version of the theory is that there were some people are even full cultures that were 12 14 feet tall quite possibly i mean why not i mean we know about um homo hydropagensis these were found in south africa and parts of europe this is like 200 000 years ago these were routinely over seven feet tall in fact they found a femur bone in um south african university which had fossilized and that would have been someone who was 10 feet tall and this has been documented by professor francis thackeray of that university i forget the name of it and further by michael tellinger and other people and that i've seen the you know pictures of the bone measured i'm like whoa you know so we know that there's giant humans it's not it's not out there this is like a you know reality right it shouldn't be controversial to say like hey maybe some people in 1400s america grew to be seven feet tall like that's yeah maybe a couple right we have seven feet tall people today you could have been seven foot tall then but to say that an entire culture was seven feet tall is more controversial and then to say that and individuals or entire cultures were into the 12 or 14 that's outrageous that's that that's where the the the mainstream kind of breaks apart that is it's a i i mean i i'm just we just go through as many accounts as we could we we put them in the book books i should say we let people make up their own minds look this is the account we don't necessarily believe it but it's out there but it's there have a look at it see what you think right we're not we're not the kind of people who force it on right and say we believe this how tall was robert wadlow i think it was - I think he was only eight foot two or something. - Really? he's the tallest man can you can you bring him up i think he's the tallest man to ever to be recorded no i think i've got a feeling this guy in turkey might be taller can you bring up this turkish guy as well i want to have a look at him he looks pretty epic and he's actually from south turkey i think eastern turkey yeah um sultan oh here we go here we go oh he's only eight foot two point eight eight foot two is the tallest living person today should i say only that is still pretty tall i mean now so what was robert wadlow was eight foot oh he's oh my god right okay he's much taller yeah i mean just look at an image of this guy but he had like um i think acromegaly or gigantism so he had a kind of pituitary gland disorder i think it was a tumor on his pituitary gland yeah so most of these do but these ones we're looking at in our books don't have that none of them do that's the weird thing would we know though if there's a yeah i think you can i think you can tell you can tell by the bone structure uh there was like uh aggravated unnatural bone structure yeah yeah and so this was so strange i mean one of the descriptions of many of the explorers that came over in the 15 1600s they were saying how kind of royal these people looked they looked like kind of beautiful beings like perfectly proportioned right powerful regal you know these are the descriptions like with all due respect to robert he's a bit uh bit lanky a bit lanky but you're saying that these descriptions are of like a very different athletic real built just specimens yeah specimens yeah wow yeah and it was just part of their natural kind of uh genetics at age eight taller than his father my goodness six foot tall at age eight well i mean just remarkable that's remarkable wow i mean this has been fascinating i truly appreciate this hugh i could chat with you all day this was so fun i would love to maybe even do another episode just on this book i would love to go through it and read it and maybe uh absorb a little more and just talk about this because this is so fascinating again if you're it's easy to brush off but if you are a christian and you believe the bible you're going to be able to do a lot of things and you're going to be able to read the bible and potentially if you're jewish i don't know what the muslim history says on on giants i think they kind of veer into it a little bit but if you're if you believe in this this belief system you kind of have to accept that there were some people in antiquity that were very tall now how tall they were we don't know but you kind of accept like okay theoretically there were some tall people and they noted how tall they were yeah for sure so it might sound far-fetched but like you know there's an element that you have to give a little window to if you're of that persuasion well well one thing they found a seven and a half foot tall statue at carahan tepe so that's raised questions if that's realistic height of a person at that time or an elite person at that time as well right which is speculative but it's worth just mentioning that i mean skeletons are more exciting than statues in my opinion and they just started to find skeletons in the area as well now a paper came out but nothing substantial i can't wait thank you so much god bless this has been awesome let's do it again i appreciate it thanks a lot man