The Lost Episodes: MAHMOUD KHALIL

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Get 20% off your first purchase at Viore.com slash T-A-F-S and discover the versatility of Viore clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Welcome back to the Lost Episode Series, Adam Friedland Show. This next episode, we're really happy. We could release it for various reasons we couldn't for a long time. And now we got the green light. My guest is Mahmoud Khalil. Khalil, of course, was a grad student at Columbia who worked as a negotiator between the administration and the Palestine Solidarity Movement. And early last year, he was detained by ICE and held for over 100 days. His wife was American. She was eight months pregnant. And he was a legal permanent resident. Despite his release, his court case and his fight against his deportation continues. And he continues to challenge the government's broader attacks on free speech in court. I think it's a really interesting, important conversation. I really hope you guys like it. Season three, Adam Friedland Show, comes out in two weeks. Enjoy, guys. I'll be in Denver, New York County, Town Hall, whatever. Ladies and gentlemen, Mahmoud Khalil. Give it up for him. Hello. How are you? Good, good. Why do they put the mic pack on your pocket like that? I did, actually. Oh, you did. No, no, hide it. Create the illusion. It's fine. Okay, sorry. People know that. No, no. Can we not start with an insult, that I'm insulting you? No worries. Okay. So, this is, like I said, I'm being set up, I'm a goofball. And this is, I had your team send a list of things that could be funny. And I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry. Are they? You need liars. You need liars. He loves plants, but he kills them all? That's hilarious. I don't kill them all. Oh, so they're shitting on you. No, no, I think my. In one of the worst, you're a civil rights hero, and they're telling you to say that you kill all your plants? No, Noor, she, Noor, my wife, like, she's holding a grudge against me because I killed her orchid. Okay, so they talk to your wife about all the things that are bad about you. Great. So. You're an old man in a 31-year-old's body. Haven't you been through enough? Why are they writing this? Is this a roast list? Your, wait, your team's idea, listen, you have 30 lawyers? I mean, on one case, but. On one case, so how many, what? I have, like, seven, six active cases now. It's a lot to keep track of, but. Yeah. At least 30 on the main case, like. 30, and then publicity, you have, like, 50. I mean. You got a book deal? I do. Are you signed at an agency? Yeah. Who are you with? With Metropolitan, with Macmillan. Mac Miller? Macmillan. Mac Miller. Okay, that was a good joke, that was a funny one. So. Oh, oh, that. It's a lot, but. Do you have a, are you at an agency? Yeah. You should start, maybe, acting a little bit. I mean, no, I'm not. No, it's not probably. I already have enough now, so. You have as many lawyers as Justin Bieber right now, and publicity people. It's just like, but for nothing, to me, like, I did nothing wrong. For going to college, yeah. Literally, like, nothing, like, it wasn't. For being a nerd. Every time I think about it, I was, like, why do I need all these lawyers, like, literally nothing. I think we should now stop the goofing, and no more laughing, guys. No, any, anything else, like. Oh, I mean, these are atrocious ideas. You guys need to just lie. You need to be like, he's the one of two people that know how to flip and sing, besides Benson Boone. So, what's happened to you? Palestine has been a seminal issue of, and it's really happened in the last three years. What's happened to you in the last year? So, basically, in March 2025, like, about a year from now, the Secretary of State designated me as a foreign policy threat, for what, I don't know, like. Foreign policy. Foreign policy threat. And, to me, that was. Like, you thought you'd changed their mind, or something? It doesn't look like it, you know? No. Like, we're still sending more and more weapons and money to Israel, and. Well, but what is a foreign policy threat? Do you know, like. I mean, it's. Is it a, it's just like a statute from. It's from the '52, actually, it was brought, or it was used to prevent Jewish immigration into the country. Oh. So, they want to prevent, you know, the communists from coming into the country, so they came up with this statute in 1952. Oh. Wow. It has never been used against. Um, like, someone like me, since ever. Since 1952. Okay. It was mainly used to prevent people from coming in, not to actually, like, prosecute people here in the country, but, to be honest, it's just like, to me, it's all, like, for me, it's a movie this past year, like, why I'm in this, in this situation. I literally did. I consider myself, like, did nothing, and it's, when I compare, like, you know, my activism to the other kids at school, or to the other students. I'm like, you know, I'm. You're throwing them under the bus. You know, I'm. Let's, let's hear about these other terrible. No, but literally, no, like, I, I was, I was literally on, on the very moderate side, like, that. You were a negotiator. They sent me to negotiate, you know, like, you, we don't need you here, like, go negotiate, so. Yeah, so to tell, to tell your story for, for those who don't know, you were at Columbia as a graduate student. Yeah. So. You lived in student housing? Is that right? I did, I did, I did live in student housing. With your wife? With my wife, and, uh. Pregnant wife at the time. We were expecting a child. We were expecting a child in, in April. I was detained in March. Yeah. Um, so I was literally for that month. I graduated in. And my day was, what day was your child born? Uh, today, actually. Okay. Like, on, uh, April 21st. So you, you, you went down to Louisiana to, to miss the birth, and now you're here on the Adam Friedland show? I think the kid. It's a, it's a first birthday, though. Yeah. It's usually people just standing around like a baby. He doesn't know anything. Yeah. They don't know anything. No. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good thing. Yeah. of especially at Columbia and and these students who were I mean most of them 17 to 19 years old 17 to 20 years old yeah they were very courageous they refused to remain silent while they are seeing all these atrocities happen on their phones while Columbia University was gaslighting them about what they are talking about and these students they had three simple demands like the first one is to disclose Columbia's investments because Columbia for their endowment has a large endowment over 14 billion dollars they are the largest real estate owner in the city of New York and the second one is to divest any investments in weapon manufacturers and violating human rights and the third one is to boycott Israeli academic institution they had a relationship with Tel Aviv would they have a Tel Aviv that's one but also they are opening sort of a satellite campus in Tel Aviv Columbia's global center in Tel Aviv where they have another one in Amman like less than 70 miles away from that so all these are political statements like to to really legitimize Israel and this is what the students said like me as a Palestinian I pay Columbia's tuition but I can't go to Israel Israel would not allow me you mentioned that you lived in in Israel for for a year I'm not allowed to even visit and my grandparents were born there in Tiberias in Tiberias and and they were there for generations it was a place where actually it had a Jerusalem in Tiberias from what I understand had an indigenous Jewish population prior to Zionism Muslims and my grandmother tells me about their Jewish neighbors like it wasn't that something you know that's out of out of the ordinary no it was like normal like she tells me she speaks some some people yeah like very very very basic to because they were working together mostly they were farmers like they're the Jewish population there and even the Arab population so there was that relationship they say it's a very spiritual place Tiberius. I haven't been, I mean all the stories I get are from my grandmother. But it's the only stories for you. In a simpler sense, I hear you explaining just like an obvious thing, like it's the most obvious thing in the world. At a university, an academic institution, they have, they're kids that want to make a kind of a, have a tangible effect on something that is going on. And it's something related to you being Palestinian, right? No, absolutely. I mean, there's something related to. Look, the student movement was composed of hundreds of thousands of students across the United States. You know, like. They were doing Shabbat in the encampment. There was Shabbat. I attended my first Seder. Oh, they should have toned it down a little bit. It's a little bit much to do the Seder in the encampment. Just relax, okay? We're sorry. Oh, my God. You're just. But, like, but also they wanted to target me because I'm Palestinian. That's, that's first. But also to chill the speech of others, like the ones who, like, look what we did with this person. So if you speak about Palestine, we will do the same for you, no matter if you did no, no, no crime. Like now we are a year and one month after my, my arrest. They haven't brought any evidence that I committed any crime. Zero. Is it the case that they're kind of burying you in legal procedural red tape so that they don't have to actually. It's an immigration case where they're trying, because the immigration system is fully controlled by the administration, like 100%. It is like kangaroo court in terms of what decisions they can make, how they make them, the rules. There's, like, it's not a Title III or a federal court. So what they're trying to do is to tell the federal court you can't touch his case because it's under the immigration process. And this is why they brought me into them. Because a day before my arrest, a legal case later showed that I was a Palestinian. And I was a Palestinian. So they were saying against the administration that they themselves, like DHS and the White House, they admitted that they don't have any grounds to detain me except for this rupee determination. So they looked into fraud. They looked into everything. They couldn't, they couldn't bring anything. So they were like, oh, but there's this statue from 1952. Let's try it on him. To contextualize it, you were functioning as a negotiator. One thing that's, that's apparent about you from talking on Friday and right now, is that you're calm right like uh protests could get kind of hot right and uh they select is that why they selected you because yeah mostly just because like i was literally like the one at first like i was older than most of the people there i already had experience in diplomacy i worked for the british embassy in beirut um i already had 10 years of experience when i came of work experience when i came to colombia that's one but the second thing is because like i can meet someone in the middle like i'm not you know um like i the students of course and the faculty they trust me uh they trust my judgment but also um that i'm not there just like you know to uh to talk no i want to get results i can meet people in the middle i'm usually calm i'm very calm like more than i should be maybe um well no it's it seems like it's i think what's necessary is that like understanding what how how you became calm i mean i think like you were born in syria is that correct yeah so i was born and raised in syria in a palestinian refugee camp yeah um in southern syria so you're a third generation uh third second so your parents were born in syria and then me my grandparents were born in palestine um so i was born and raised there i stayed there until the age of 18 when the syrian uprising um started in 2011 i was 16. i participated in that uprising and uh in 20 in 2011. it's really cute you did the five-minute protest uh it's like even less because and that's why i tell people here like the risk of protesting in syria was you getting shot you're not you getting deported we're gonna do a 30-second process you just like you get the film they film you and and you upload it but then the regime arrested two of two two of my friends or the people who i was organizing with so the second day i fled to lebanon um did your parents come with you or no no i was i was alone like actually it was on my 18th birthday that i i like a week after my 18th birthday that i fled to lebanon um because they had to do it like within you know like my friends were arrested on january 11 um at night january 13 in the morning i was in lebanon and and there of course like in beirut i did not speak any english back then i was supposed to start studying aviation engineering at the university in in syria so i couldn't do that and in lebanon i had to literally do construction work for six seven months until i you know i found i found a decent job that then they offered me a scholarship to go to school to learn english i like this construction work angle for the for the pr people i think yeah he's a master you you're you know just like our lord and savior old jc no no i enjoyed it like i was i like that i was a painter and enjoyed i enjoyed being like painting walls and going to houses and um it's just like because at that point i did not want to add like more uh stress to my on my family who was still stuck in syria couldn't move to live because i didn't want to go to lebanon because i didn't want to go to lebanon because lebanon compared to syria is very expensive um like insanely expensive compared to syria so like a hundred dollar in syria can survive you for a couple of weeks in lebanon two days um so absolutely my family like so what's it like living in new york though um i mean i love it i mean it's gotta be like you gotta be like this is crazy it's absolutely great insane because in lebanon i lived in in chatira camp which is one of the more uh underprivileged communities like palestinian communities and also there was a massacre and there was a massacre committed by um israel and their lebanese um allies back in the 80s so it's you know like i went through all of that so to me what i'm now is just like another an extension of all the misery that i went through uh all my life and is that that's why you're calm i guess i think i think so i i believe that this has contributed to to my calmness but also like i come from a family that went through a lot um like since before my my birth like my my grandparents when they were kicked out of tiberias they lived in a tent for a number of years and then they died in a mud house uh so my dad was born in a mud house uh my parents were uh were married in a mud house my um my my mom's uh brothers like also weird uh were imprisoned by israel for for a number of years so it's not that you know it's like my story is unique it's just like an extension of that but even like like in 1870 france exiled my grand uh my mom's grand um a grandparent from algeria from french algeria to the ottoman ottoman palestine so uh it's sort of friends in in the family unfortunately um all this like exile so you paid your way through university in lebanon i did so i was basically working full-time was it like being 18 and just like alone i mean it was i loved it you know like family party and then yeah partying and going around beirut is is the best city for paris of the middle east exactly so i i honestly like like that part yeah the beach uh yep beach mountain and uh it's beautiful but i mean the first the first thing is the first thing is the year was really tough because i was basically imagine trying because in lebanon everyone speaks english or french and yeah you know i'm i'm that um guy who so how good at english did you get if it's like a if people are multilingual how did you meet your wife i guess like she so when i was in lebanon i was working basically i was running um schools and refugee centers for syrian refugees and one of the programs we had is to bring international volunteers to teach english to refugee kids in lebanon uh so noor my wife who's american born and raised in flint came on one of these trips to teach english uh so we met at this program yeah basically back in 20 2016. how did did how did you how did you like how did you how did you get fall in love i don't know uh i mean it seems like she was the one that was like we're getting married i mean yeah um we spent like a month uh it was a group of 30 people so mostly mostly americans yeah um so we spent all that time and at that time like i was running i was running the program so i did not have time really you know to oh that was yeah but then afterwards like we talked we met um like a few months after and i mean you started as friends and then yeah like a few months and uh we were like we were serious but then you know long distance um um for for a couple of years but i got a scholarship to colombia in 2018 to do a short course, an executive course at Columbia, so I did that. What was that, to be, like, a CEO or something? It was, yeah, it was, like, something emerging leaders in non-profit management, something like that. Your desire was to be, like, to work as a, like, in. So my desire was most of the time, like, work in international, like, affairs, I would say, in public service, but particularly, like, to represent Palestine, because I always, like, growing up, when reading about Palestine, I felt that there is that vacuum of Palestinians. Like, to work at the UN, potentially? Yeah, yeah, so I, before my arrest, I had a job offer at the UN, like, to be a policy advisor with an organization. How does it feel, like, they've kind of let you guys down? I mean, they fucked themselves up. They've let you guys down a lot. A lot, a lot. You're going to go to the place where the. Like, I don't know. I mean, again, like, that was, I felt that this is a role I could play. You could try and do something from within. Exactly. Not necessarily from within. It's just, you know, we, the fight for Palestine is, requires every avenue, and that was an avenue that I felt I can contribute to. But also, like, more importantly, like, I wanted to be a voice for my people. I felt that, especially in the United States and following, like, Edward Said's journey here, because that was, like, the only example. I mean, we come from a very different, like, background, you know, like, Edward Said and me. Yeah. But, like, I felt like, you know, there is so much need for Americans and the people just, like, to hear Palestinians. Because we always hear others talk about Palestinians, what they want, who they are, but they don't. We talked about this on the phone, right? Yeah. And, like, I think. I think in a tangible sense, like, the kids at Columbia wanted to do something that was tangible. I think Palestine has obviously been a seminal issue, especially for the younger generation, that has emerged only recently in the States. But does it feel sometimes like a little bit of that, a little bit, sometimes the advocacy could be disconnected from actual Palestinians that are actually dying? It could be, yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't say it's malicious or any of that. I think it's. I think it's just, like, there isn't too many Palestinian voices here, but also to center Palestinians here, it's a bit tough. Because a lot of people here, they only read the theory of resistance, the theory of who Palestinians are. Like, at Columbia, there were only, like, I think, less than 10 students who came from Palestine, actually from Palestine. So it was so difficult. And these students tend to be very risk-averse because they have so much, so much to lose. I can imagine, yeah. I mean, I'm a living example of that. Compared to, you know, like, other kids or other students in school who have some sort of privilege, they can get arrested or they can risk arrest. They can, you know, for them it might be like Palestine is only, like, a few years, but to me it's like my life is Palestine. So the dynamic is a bit complicated when it comes to this. Yeah, I agree with that, but I don't think it's malicious. It's just, like, also everything happened so fast, like in the encampment happened about a year and a half after October 7th, but also before the encampment, like, actually no less, sorry, six months. It was in April 2024, so, yeah, six months. So, like, it was so fast, like, so everything happened so fast. And you find these students being put on this national, international level. I mean, it was a national spotlight in a second, like, when the encampment happened. And no one of the, like, none of them is media trained. None of them, like, what they care about is to actually get the university to divest, to get the university not to use their tuition fees to kill, like, people. They've only known Netanyahu as the prime minister, right, 17 years? Yeah. So their entire lives, like, you know, they've only known. I mean, before him was Bennett, who's more. Yeah, I bet it. They've had some goofballs. Yeah, they've had some real wacky guys. But also, like, these students, they can see the injustice and the hypocrisy, like, in daylight. Like, they are being, you know, they were advocating for the rights of Palestinians. Well, I think you could see the war now, right? Yeah, and they were seeing, like, the killing. But you see the politicians, you see the university gaslighting them. Like, no, this is not happening. Or, like, it's, and to them, that was shocking. This level of hypocrisy and double standards can happen in daylight. That's why they, I mean, they lost faith in the administration. No one wanted to actually talk to the Trump, to the Columbia administration. So how did you become a negotiator? You know, I'm a bureaucrat. So, like, I come from, I come from, like, you know, a history of bureaucracy work. I mean, I worked for the British, who was, like, the oldest bureaucracy. Oh, my God. Yeah. In the world. So I would just say, like, and, you know, just, like, email the administrators since even before October 7. Because anti-Palestinian racism is institutionalized at Columbia before October. Like, when I first joined Columbia in January 2023, I joined the Palestinian group there. And we wanted to invite Human Rights Watch. We wanted to invite BDS. Like, just to talk about, that's what you do internationally. You know, you bring, you know, you bring experts. But because it's about Palestine, Columbia would put us in a very long process of approval of just, like, you know, they don't want us to do any of this. But you guys had a bureaucrat. Exactly. So I was like, you know, I got it. So I would email them. I would fill the forms. I would read the policy manual, all of that. And they would go back to. Yeah. And so I established this reputation of being communicative with the administration. And also being Palestinian. So that's also a part, like, a part of it. And also just being, you're just who, the sense I get of who you are as a person. Which is just, like, not someone that is a hothead. Like, you're kind of, like, someone that can maintain your cool. I feel like you don't have to just explain any of this shit. I think that it's just, like, you're Palestinian and there's a war in Palestine. You're seeing people die. And there's protests on your campus. You know? Like, the history. This is part of the distraction here that they want to create. They want to distract us from what's really happening in Palestine. Right. From all the atrocities. From the U.S. complicity in sending weapons. And just, like, to care about, you know, what from the river to the sea means. What to globalize the intifada means. Like, these are slogans. And slogans are not killing people. Bombs are killing people. For me, personally, I just have to say. Like, as a Jewish person, especially, like, watching Zoran's mayoral election. It was just, they were being Islamophobic to him. And they were saying that they have to do it for the Jews. And it was revolting to me to watch. Because, yeah, I mean, and it was done by this guy from, like, a political dynasty. Right? It's not even Jewish. No, no. Which is totally absurd. But there is a propaganda. Antisemitism is real. And it's rising. But it's not because of the Palestinian movement. It's not because of these protests. It's because of, first, the weaponization of antisemitism. It's because of the use of antisemitism as a way to go after. The definition of antisemitism doesn't hold any weight if you say that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. So that's, like, this, like, the fact about, like, cheapening the fight of antisemitism. Like, it's, which is scary. Like, when you have a state that's insistent. It's insistent on using Judaism as a shield. Yeah. It has them, again, it is a Star of David. So, so. And they're seeing atrocities. And this is what I've been saying. Like, again, here, that's the only, that's the only deflection that they can have. Because who wants to be an antisemite? No one wants to be an antisemite. And that's what they use as an attack. Like, oh, you're antisemitic. Because. Yeah. Because they're really weaponizing that. And this is what's cheapening the fight against antisemitism. I don't, I think that when I hear the narrative of the Palestinians, this is something that dawned on me when I was younger. Like, the narrative of you being in a different country, second generation in a refugee camp. The narrative, you know, learning what happened in Sabra and Shazila. Like, learning about the. You know, the Nakba. It's, it's, correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like you're unwanted people. And that's what Jews were for 1800 years. And it bothers me that, that more than the antisemitism thing, it bothers me that it feels like there's an erasure of that, of who we are. Like, and that if anyone could understand what it's like to be a Palestinian, like, to be people that are not. unwanted and just kicked out of their homes and then they go to a new place and they're not wanted there it should be Jewish people and I mean this is why our greatest allies are Jewish people no no I mean I would say we do we do have that and I'm not like you know we have we have Jewish voices for peace and then bend the ark and if not now who are like really it's feeling that you know like being Jewish values that about social justice and well historically again yeah I always thought that was cool because like I've said this before but like my parents my dad and mom moved to Los Angeles because my parents were lived in South Africa they went away to university they came back they got married and then my dad got called up to Angola to the Civil War and they were like you know my dad's a real coward it's a regular he's a Jane Fonda you know he's a real beatnik you know no so they didn't want to raise her you know they didn't want to raise her family in a fucked-up place but the the white people that including family friends that a vast like a large proportion of the people that joined the struggle and joined the ANC were Jewish people because we understood what prejudices but I mean let's I mean I would say like this is what Zionism is about Zionism is about erasing the other erasing like the the Palestinians erasing their stories their history their connection to the land to create that such a colonial entity that's Israel but historically I mean I wouldn't go like I wouldn't narrate now like about Zionism is I mean beyond that it's just like I don't know we didn't have beef with Muslims like the audit the reason after the span what this is so boring okay they went they went to the Middle East they went to Morocco and they were they were permitted in Muslim countries after the church if you're looking at the body count you know the the church is crushing it I mean they're like they're like they're world champs I mean I mean like I think it's like a little bit like it's strange to me that because it's another misunderstanding about the whole conflict is that this is something that's existed for thousands of years it's it's not yeah I mean Muslims and Jews look like I mean like there was Palestine or the Levant area like Palestine the bigger Syria it was a place of refuge for so many people you had the Armenians who fled the massacres yeah against them settled in in Lebanon Syria and Palestine you had the Caucasians the Greek so it was a place of refuge like and my family my mom's family they they found refuge from Algeria and in Palestine so it wasn't like something that's out of the ordinary that to to receive Jewish refugees or to receive anyone it's it's the fact that this a group of people they wanted to they wanted exclusivity on the land which then stirred all the problems and before the Balfour Declaration everyone everyone was I would say oppressed under the Ottomans they are Muslim Hassan Peker literally and has he apologized okay I want to talk about Louisiana I grew up in the Southwest right I grew up with a lot of Latinos right and to me when I was a kid I learned about the Holocaust and I my first question for my parents was like how do how does an entire country become anti-semitic all in one moment and what happened was it was invisible largely there were people that were taken and they would see Jews get taken but then they you know life in Germany was you'd go to the office the next day you know you have a Christmas party you get a little too drunk it's it's not invisible I think it's people choose not to look at it to me I saw Los Angeles I saw the Marines Los Angeles and then I was like oh yeah I'm going to the office next day you know my life is not really disrupted right you found yourself in a position with and growing up around a lot of Mexican people and a lot too primarily Mexicans in the Southwest there are people that strictly want to make more money for their families you know and um people that come here to work too you know like that make our lives much easier and people that are invisible too they are the most vulnerable people in our society in Minneapolis we saw two American citizens get shot there was an outcry we saw an entire American city under siege I don't think the question is being asked about what's been happening to these people now for years what was your experience like in detainment I mean just like on your point like I now I just like I remember like Juan who was like my bunkmate who has been in the United States for over 24 years like he arrived here in 2001 and it was like his second night and he was just like so shocked that he's he's in detention and he tells me like he was he's a father of two U.S citizens like his daughters nine and and two I believe um but also he tells me like oh I have a roofing company I paid last year over three hundred thousand dollars in taxes I was picked up from my uh from my workshop and to him like he felt that his tax pay papers like where his way out because he felt he was doing everything right like he he was picked up from work um he he employs like over 20 uh 20 workers um and that was the type of every single person in detention but what really broke them was the fact that they're being so dehumanized um on on the news being called all the names um and for them they were like we didn't like we just wanted like what's good for for our kids what's good what's good for our future um and just to me like that was like shocking like to a lot to a lot of them like just like the fact that they're being dehumanized this this way a lot of the people were picked up from their ice chickens or court hearings so they were literally doing that I think um to find themselves in a place with over 70 uh men in one room sharing like one big room so cold you only get a thin blanket the food is so terrible that was what the room you were in exactly uh in in Louisiana um they don't know they they don't understand like I mean they don't know their rights because they either I mean which was shocking to me at least like I got some papers like what I'm being but they had a bureaucrat yeah no but for them like they did not even get that paper and yeah I still remember like the the man from um Honduras who um who came to me and showed me a paper I was like damn you're he was like what's happening I mean through it and a translation um he signed his deportation uh paper without knowing without without knowing anything it was in English so correct me if I'm wrong but the impression I get is that they want to make life so intolerable for people if you're in detainment in the in the States primarily you're here legally right and so they if you're not legal status they deport you so from what I understand they're and you correct me if I'm wrong they're trying to make life so intolerable for these people that they will self-deport they'll sign a piece of paper that says I'm never so some of them they don't have status they don't that doesn't mean they committed any crimes like yeah um they came through the borders they've been here for so long and because you know the U.S immigration system is so um not only complicated like it's designed to exclude such people from from from the system um so for them you know like not just like not having papers doesn't like really I mean DHS is only 20 years old uh or ice it's only 20 years old like it's it's not it's not that like people would think like oh like what what we would do without ice like you know immigrants would be oh no like it's it's a new it's a new um thing it's it's a new invention ice and DHS and for so long Europe like they they they manage their immigration without ice without looking people up uh locking people up in in in remote detention centers but what you said is exactly what it is is the fact that they make the conditions in such detention centers so unbearable so that you would want to leave as soon as possible um with everything like it's designed for people we've had a record number of people dying entertainment yeah like this year attention yeah yeah I mean this year's was I think the highest since since ever and we're only three four months into did you see anything like that like like I did I mean I had I had another another um like fellow um detainee uh with his leg amputated um and you can see that his leg is is is getting swollen um he would go to the medical center they would send him back and only after three weeks that they sent him to a hospital um after like I don't know I mean it was it was so bad but also um he chose to just like self-deport or just sign the the deportation uh documents and um what was the company that like it's a these are privately owned facilities That was shocking for me because, again, like, I'm not innocent of being ignorant about the immigration system in this country. I wasn't. Like, before my detention, I never thought about what ICE detention is. I had no reason to believe, like, to learn about it. Well, I don't think most people know. So, because I was a green card holder, everything is good. I was on track to get my U.S. citizenship in two years. To have a life with your wife. So, why would, you know, like, and maybe it's stupid of me. Like, I never thought that something was happening here. But the moment I stepped in into these detention centers, I was just shocked. Like, is this really happening in this country? Like, I never thought that something was happening in this country. Monday on NBC. U.S. Marshall! All new Line of Fire. The thrilling new crime drama. The world sees us as heroes, but they don't know what the job really is. What the job really costs. One family of federal agents. It's one thing to put yourself in danger. It's different when it's your family. Balances duty to their country. An assassin is still out there. Stop! And each other. How do you protect the world and the people you love at the same time? Every case hits home on Line of Fire. Monday on NBC. So, we were on a roll there talking about ICE. But, so, DJ Khaled, do you think that's the most famous Palestinian? No, Jesus is the most famous Palestinian. Oh, I think, I thought he was Jewish. I mean, that's the thing, like, I mean. This changes everything. I don't think it's mutually exclusive. He was obsessed with his mother, you know? I'm obsessed with my mother. Yeah, same, dude. We're Jewish. We're Jews, dude. Okay, the private prison aspect of it. Like, I've heard reports that they make. You buy water, that they make it, like, egregiously expensive to make phone calls. Like, how are they, how are they, how are these companies, like, benefiting? So, everything about, like, the detention was about, like, profit, basically. Yeah. You know, the phone call, I think it was 10 cents per minute. If it's domestic, about a dollar something, if it's international. And most of the time, it's international. Which Syrian prices, that's, like, a house. Oh, that's, like, a, I don't know, yeah. But also, like, with the commissary and, I mean, there were, like, few people who were before coming to, very, very few before coming to ICE detention. They were in federal detention or, like, prison or in state prison. And they would say, like, you know, take us back, like, to the prison, to the prisons because it's much cheaper. Just, like, the situation is much better than here. But again, like, it's. But, I mean, they would do everything for profit. Like, if that means that they would starve you to death, they would do it because that would save them money. And that's, like, what's about the food. Like, the food was terribly bad. And they would say that because, like, there was. What was the food like? No, I mean, there was room to improve the food as it is. It's just, like, they don't want to. The food was, like, literally beans, different color every day. So, one day we would have red-eye bean. Another day. Another day black bean, white bean with some rice. And, I mean, it depends on the day, but, like, very, very basic. I was on the vegetarian meal because I tried the meat once and it was, like, eating mud, literally. I had to throw up and go to the vegetarian meal, which means, like, you would never get full. So, you're always hungry. So, I lost, like, 15 pounds. So, I lost, like, 15 pounds, which was, I mean, not bad. Not bad. Ozembic, probably your team. Your team's got you on Ozembic now that you're Hollywood. No, at least 15, so, yeah. I guess, do you think about the people that you were with there? And how do you connect the refugee story with these individuals, you know? I mean, you know, like, being a refugee is just, like, looking for a better future. Looking for a better future for yourself and really, you know, being, whether persecuted or just, like, fleeing a bad situation. And, you know, I always think, like, I remember the moment I left ICE detention when I got released. And the only feeling I could have is really crying about the people I left behind. Because that was the first time I see the detention center. From the outside. And as I was walking, there were reporters there. And they look behind me. And I could see the yard where we would have, like, the time out, like, there. And I just could, just, like, cry because, like, a minute before I was inside with them, just, like. And you have a name, too. Like, a lot of these people are nameless. That's, I mean, the biggest, like, to me, I had, I was very lucky, very privileged to have. Excellent lawyers on my team. Let's give it up for these guys. What about Dershowitz? But that hurt me. Someone like that. Because most of them, they don't even have one lawyer. Like, not even one lawyer. And, you know, I entered detention thinking that my case was the most devastating case. You know, like, you know, my wife is pregnant. She's going to give birth in one or two months. And I'm not accused of any crimes. I'm a green card holder. I was just being shipped from New York to Louisiana. But in a day, I was like, you know what? I'm lucky. Like, when I see all these fathers. We had a person who, his wife was also detained in a detention center about two hours away from, like, where I was. And I was like, you know, I'm going to be in jail for a year. - Those guys, they went into the, encampment at uh ucla yeah so that was like the proud boys my la experience no the same at columbia like proud boys came to columbia like for israel yeah yeah like at the encampment like there's like at that at the time of the encampment so yeah it's so confusing these days you know you would assume that they don't like jews and then they but they like the they like the killing ones yeah i don't know where are the seats at the persian restaurant uh leopard skin or like a kind of an animal print they like that they like it yeah it's just like you see the whole parking lot black bmws no i i mean it's so disturbing to be honest because like some had to wait had to wait for me outside holding an israeli flag you know like they had it on hand i don't know like and because you were a nerd and you went to college yeah this is like such bullshit you what do you want like you want to be an american citizen and you want to live here with your child and your of course that's why i i came here like looking for stability for the first time i was like looking forward to having like the green card the first permanent thing i ever had um and really i was you know like right before my detention like and it's it's just so surreal when i think about it because i was recently graduated um i graduated graduating in december and we were waiting i have no idea no no no no i'm i'm a bad like my my undergraduate gpa is 2.4 yeah but you did it in computers yeah computer science okay i would have gotten 0.0 yeah uh but um but i was literally like just waiting you know like preparing for the um the arrival of dean um going with noor to doctor's appointment go trying strollers all across the city just to find that i fucking expensive right they're so expensive you gotta go craigslist i think no no we went to jersey like to get one line oh you gotta go jersey yeah but those might have been i'd have lead paint or something i don't know so i wasn't that you know like just waiting to start my job first of april uh at the un um like everything is i was in mexico like doing baby moon i that was the first time i hear of that a baby moon apparently it's like the last trip you do before like before giving birth to a child so she's like feels terrible on a plane yeah so that was like when she was like seven months which is like yeah this is the last trip we can have before yeah before giving birth so it's like i'm sold and she's like i'm disgusting so we went to mexico and they came back i think like a week or so before my uh my arrest and um then i was called up like you know barnard is uh doesn't want to negotiate with the students would you come to negotiate with barnard i was like okay i don't have anything to do so so i went and uh that was like the second um part of it and so as you said you're one of 10 palestinian students less maybe and not i mean there are like first second generation palestinian students but it was like less than five maybe of palestinians who lived you know the exile or even under occupation and so is that you think when you think because they haven't presented any evidence you haven't had the trial yet where they say how you jeopardize the foreign policy of america they have not because they have nothing and but like when they targeted you what do you what do you consider to be the source of that um i mean look like if if if you've seen the video of my arrest i was so calm uh because i i knew i did nothing wrong i was like there's no way it's just a misunderstanding i will be out and you know in an hour or two but when i was in in federal plaza federal 26 um and i see the that was the first time they give me um called nta the notice to appear and they see that the secretary of state um has determined that you are a foreign something like what's his name what's his name uh rubio no what what's his name though who little i mean come on just call him that it's fun when trump do but while while i'm reading this i hear the officer um telling another the white house is requesting an update i was like what's happening trump was watching yeah like the white house is requesting an update and and to me like literally at that point like what i did is just protesting and this is the most american thing you would do in this country like to protest that's like what i mean like you know that's the first amendment rule yeah it's the first amendment of america right and they say the second is there to protect the one so the second one is really important to us too but the the first one is that's what i you know you're no that was shocked me because like there wasn't like any crime i'm like i committed like it wasn't that because in his determination rubio says that his actions although lawful or otherwise lawful possess a foreign policy threat so like he sort of like conceded that all my actions were like how how would they how would i know and um and again like it's that's what we've been talking about about like whether you agree with me or not and i think you should agree with me but whether or not yeah i mean you know genocide is bad like what i'm on the fence right now yeah i'm gonna wait that's why that's why i was saying i'm gonna see what how this shakes out but that's again like if if they can deport an anti-zionist for for his speech they can well they're all supposed to be free speech warriors right isn't that the that's i mean that's what the republican party's supposed to be about like you know protecting free speech except for palestine and and that's like even if what they're saying is right about me which is not um like it's it's protected speech assembly and and speech exactly beyond that you're palestinian and it's the protest is about a no no regardless of who i am regardless of what i do like again like once again like it's it's just the idea of targeting someone for a lawful speech yeah like whether it's like some people feel uncomfortable whatever that is like it's very well um i what made a big impression on me when i was a kid shout out to you guys over there well you weren't there it was some other guys but like uh the skokie illinois the supreme court case i always thought it was really cool that they were the american nazi but not the american no i didn't think that that was cool i thought the american just for a background the american nazi party wanted to march uh in skokie which was a community with a lot of holocaust survivors and i always thought it was really cool that there were like jewish lawyers at the aclu that were representing the the american nazi party in at the supreme court because like because in america like in other countries like in england you go to jail for facebook you know like i there are like we have higher ideals and principles like this is supposed to be one and uh it was always kind of a progressive kind of being a free speech uh warrior was never considered a conservative topic uh i think what happened was we in america we had charlottesville and it freaked people out and i think that there was a revulsion i think they kind of seeded it to the right oh god it we have a hell of a country do you like uh i don't know do you like like the nba that's pretty good have you seen movies like yeah goodfellas that's american yeah yeah yeah all right i just finished the uh sopranos just like last week how amazing is it oh love it you know jersey do you still want to be an american citizen oh absolutely i mean that kind of sucks for you though it's been a crappy for you no you've been i mean it's been a hell battle but that's why i'm fighting my case you know because i i believe in that premise and i'm not saying like america is perfect in any way and then there needs to be so much things to do but that's the promise that the american dream of coming here and you know realizing what you we just say that's a chinese people so they do a railroad no no i mean that's the thing when i was saying that's like you know like that's why so many refugees ended up in in this country historically you know well historically they didn't allow people trying to leave the holocaust you know yeah i mean we've had that's one yeah and then in 1952 they made your the anti-semitic law that you're being anti-semitized about that's like it's not about you know me palestinian or my views like if they want to come after they could come after everyone of us and they would come after everyone of us and they would come after everyone of us and they would come after everyone of you like it's this is a civil rights case and meeting you and talking to you it's a testament to you to you're enjoying this i would make everything about i would make everything about my at my legal issues you know there's a comedian norm mcdonald who got cancer and just died no one knew i would it's the most masculine thing i could imagine i would just be in trader joe's telling everyone my cancer this line is too long i'm just saying you're like in a you're you're being a a sweet lovely person in the face of all this is is very uh is uh i don't know it's a lovely thing to see in a shitty time no thank you i mean i'm not the story again it's like the story is like about the people being killed using our tax dollars yeah and the fact that i'm being you know like our rights are being eroded right now yeah and then i'm just just being used as a pawn or an example yeah but you miss your kid's birth yeah and nothing and nothing would would make up for that i don't think like yeah winning my case or staying here you facetimed uh no no like it was a day after that like i i like were able to talk to them on video but it was like very very blurred like you know that ancient tablet that that's everything is blurred um tell us about meeting your son like um you got back so the first time i met him actually was in detention like behind a glass uh partition and um the the government refused that we would meet um contact visit where we're allowed like to be in the same room and they can't hold him he's a drug dealer yeah he was could have been smuggling that's horrible and that's like another another you know level of of of the torture of of these detention um , centers um because i'm to me i was lucky that i was able to see to see him for so many people around me their family like couldn't even visit because they were either undocumented or afraid of coming to here or it's too far for them and too expensive but even to that level the government was um was terrible that they wouldn't allow me to have a contact visit with with my son so we had to literally go to a court to force the government to allow us have a one-hour contact visit uh that happened in a courtroom so the first time i hold dean was in in in a courtroom he was one month old his first visit was from new york to louisiana like a five-hour flight um and i still remember i had to to go to the like to ask the officer to get me some uh wipes um or alcohol just like so i don't oh yeah because he has other shots yeah exactly so and even like i did not i did not care to kiss him uh dare to kiss him like at that at that at that point because i was just like worried that because you know you're sharing that place with with so many people with so little hygiene um so and that's why like i would never um i i will say like i would never nothing would ever make up for that and it would never forgive them for uh stepping me from from this moment because it could have been like could have been avoided um um like in in so many ways but to them the point is cruelty that's like the whole point of this administration of this like mass deportation campaign uh because they want to break me um and to decide to leave because to them like from first week like if i decided to leave you can leave the country and just go um um so they they wanted to maintain that that cruelty so that i would be broken i think that's a good place to leave this i think uh you got this bro no i mean we got it it's not gonna be he's like telling the truth as college college people no i'm i'm still yeah i gotta get my my dad's guy he works with uh is good made off you gotta get we gotta get yeah so i'm like uh yeah like a slip and fall kind of guy yeah yeah i know a personal injury guy from high school thank you so much yeah i know a personal injury guy from high school thank you so much all new line of fire all new line of fire all new line of fire the thrilling new crime drama the world the thrilling new crime drama the world the thrilling new crime drama the world sees us as heroes but they don't know sees us as heroes but they don't know sees us as heroes but they don't know what the job really costs one family of what the job really costs one family of what the job really costs one family of federal agents it's one thing to put federal agents it's one thing to put federal agents it's one thing to put yourself in danger it's different when yourself in danger it's different when yourself in danger it's different when it's your family balance is duty to it's your family balance is duty to it's your family balance is duty to their country an assassin is still out their country an assassin is still out their country an assassin is still out there and each other how do you protect there and each other how do you protect there and each other how do you protect the world and the people you love at the the world and the people you love at the the world and the people you love at the same time every case hits home on line same time every case hits home on line same time every case hits home on line of fire monday on nbc