The Lost Episodes: Don Lemon

Hey guys, welcome back to the Adam Friedland show for the next four weeks. We will commence our lost episode series this week. We have Don Lemon. I think we did it last year, is that right Thomas? Probably around last year. I don't know why this was never posted. Oh, I think he got arrested afterwards and it was no longer relevant. I don't know. Guys, we have four big lost episodes coming up the next four weeks. Followed by the season three premiere of the Adam Friedland show, real quick, I'll be on the road. Denver Comedy works October 22nd, 24th and New York, New York, New York Comedy Festival, November 13th, a big ass motherfuckers show. Guys, make sure you get take its Adam Friedland dot show. Ladies and gentlemen, media, icon, Don Lemon, everybody from Louisiana, from Mr. How are you? What's up? How are you? Nice hat. Thank you. You gave me your hat. Where'd you get that? From you. I don't think you guys got to go out here and get that. Do you know what the website is? For what? Lemon Party. Oh, no, it's for Don Lemon.com. What do you know how you heard of the website? Have I heard of what? There's a website called Lemon Party. They talk about Lemon Party. I've never heard of Lemon Party. I don't know. Have you ever heard of Lemon Party? Have you ever shown it? No. I mean, it's a loose show. I mean, show. Is this something like sexual stuff? This was like a legendary website that like in the high school, you would like put into your friends like family computer. I mean, it's, it's a really, it's like, oh my God. You've never heard of, I assumed your family was being a big Lemon Party. Lemon Party isn't the most, what is, guys, I'm very upset, Zachary, I need help with the iPad. Can you help? Should I buy that website now? Don, the fact that you don't know, sorry, I'm going to look it up, see if I can find it. You should, it's, it's, I mean, can someone back me up here? You guys are like, not, dude, it doesn't show, do you, you can have Wi-Fi in the studio? Yes, we do. And the password is s--. I found it. Well, yeah, Zach, this is, it was a website that just, yeah, can I see it? Yeah, yeah, on your phone, this is Don Lemon, it's a big deal, you can tell your mom. Are you Big Head? Which one of these is you? So it was a website that just showed this image and it was a big prank growing up and it was, what is that? What is that? It's a lemon party that your family started this website. Is that three old dudes? Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really beautiful, it's like, I didn't know that thing, they got down like that. Is, is that what you're into? No, it's of, guys, since fucking sixth grade, Lemon Party is like, it's the big joke. You text someone, one time I had a chat, Hank's on and he was getting mad at me. That's my favorite interview with you. Well, I did a second one where he got actually mad at me and I mean, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, the best guy ever. But well, actually, you shattering it out, I saw. You showed it out. That was my, that was my favorite interview with you. I, when I was starting my show, I looked at, you copied. Well, I looked to you for inspiration, honestly, yeah, because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I really did. I had no idea what I was doing. And I, like, this is my aesthetic. Uh-huh. This is, you know what this is? This is a, a serenade. Serenade. Knock off. Knock off. It's a knock off. I tried to match the Dick Kavitcho and he used cheap knock-offs. So we unnecessarily spent $16,000 on four of these chairs. Did you know that I said that when I walked in? Who is your inspiration? Dick Kavitch? It looks like the Dick Kavitcho. I don't even know that. But I like these are, these are like, we all know this. These look like, um, like it could be no, like, these were no yes. These are Eames, uh, Eames lobby chairs from the Noel Corporation that we unnecessarily spent $4,000 on each, and they came from a courthouse in Pennsylvania. People probably went to the death penalty. You could have gotten these a knock off at Design Within Reach probably. No, but he's designed within reach, not exactly within reach. You've been, you've been 1% for too long, my friend. So tell us about St. Bartz. How's your thing? You got, I don't have no idea what you're talking about. You've got, who'd you have? You have Katzenberg. You have, uh, Geffen, you have, uh, uh, Sidney Sweeney. You had, uh, the guy that made Spider-Man. Lauren Michaels. You have Lauren Michaels? Yeah, you got every, you got, um, is you have an ambition to host Eric Kushner? What's he like as a, as a guy, Jerry Kushner? I don't, I've never met Jerry Kushner. I feel like there's just, there's, I, I can typically sense what a guy is like. He feels so, uh, just like, what he's like from a video game. He walked past him and he's just on the street and he's like, he's like in, uh, like, you know, uh, he's just a, they called it an NPC. What are you, like, you're like 65 years old, but you look 23? I'm 85. Um, no, I'm, I'm 50. I'm in my 50s. You're in your 50s. Closing in. But you look incredible for 50s. Thank you. I looked a lot younger before Trump came to office. But I, to my knowledge, I've never met Jerry Kushner. I've met Ivanka and all the other kids. She must be lovely. Yeah. And Jerry's brother Josh is amazing. He's a, he's a big real estate guy. He's a good dude. Yeah, yeah. He's married to the Carly What's Her Face? Clouse. Clouse. Clouse. Clouse. Clouse. Clouse. Clouse. It just sounds like someone that's sending you to the, to the, to the trit, and I was, we don't have to get, I get into Holocaust too early every episode. Anyway, uh, I want to get into you because I think you're, I didn't know your backstory prior to like researching for this episode, but I think you have like a really interesting kind of backstory. Like you're from the south and you kind of like, you did kind of an anchor man bouncing around between affiliate stations, kind of situation. And then you found yourself at the top, you know? The parallel that I thought of, like analyzing your career was like, like was Oprah Winfrey. Because she was like from the south, she worked in the affiliate news station and she kind of worked her way to the top of, uh, of kind of media. I think it's one of the, uh, who was it? Was she an inspiration for you? Yeah. Well, of course. Of course. She's the goat. She, you know, then she went the, the talk show group, which sort of traditional news, yes. I think I was one of the last, um, do you know Ben Smith is who's, yeah, from some of the four. Yeah. He said it was one of the last traditional sort of news careers where people had to go to different markets and work their way out. Does the path not exist anymore? It does, but not to the same extent, because you could actually go learn the craft before the internet, make your mistakes. And then by the time you got to a big market or a network, then you were honed and you could write. You know how to do. Kids don't know how to write now, um, you know, you can start with this, you don't have to go around and learn and everyone thinks that they should be like a network correspondent or anchor immediately, like within a year or so. It's like, no, it doesn't. It shouldn't work that way. How bad were your mistakes? You got someone in the electric chair or something? No. You know, you pronounce shit wrong. You get stuff wrong. Oh, have you been on a news blooper before? I'm sure I have. It's one of the funniest. It's the best. I mean, what was their name, uh, uh, uh, the officer that got killed, uh, shit, uh, the famous one. The lady, uh, the mega do-do, you know, that one? No. Was her name? D-D. D-D, mega do-do. An officer dead in the line of duty. D-D, mega do-do. Was it? The news bloopers are the, the absolute funniest thing on her. Yeah. I haven't been a news blooper, but I have some pretty funny news moments. Well, yeah. Once, once it wasn't me. I was getting an interview and the person was satellite and their chair, the air started going out of their chair, so the chair just started going down while she was on. That was funny. Funny moments, 'cause I didn't give a shit, so I had funny moments. There was a funny, uh, cheese cake moment, uh, what is it called with the cheesecake factory moment? And then there was like, uh, and then there was a mega hat funny moment, and I had a bunch of fun moments. What does that mean? Cheesecake, mega hat? There was just a thing where we were talking about this, you know, a mega hat, this guy wearing a mega hat and the cheesecake factory, someone brought it up and then everybody just sort of cracked up. That was all in the news. Yeah, it was all in the news. And I was just wearing a hat in a restaurant. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just, okay. It wasn't, it wasn't the guy in the restaurant. You have to watch it. Do you ever go to an affiliate station in a city you've never lived in before? You're like, these people are disgusting. No. Like, when you were in Philly, you were like, oh, I have to cover these monsters. No, but I hate all of them. No, after a while, it got old, like, standing in front of, you know, a place where there was something was breaking like at nine in the morning and it's 11 o'clock at night, and it's like, why are we here? It's like, you know, that kind of, or just like random shootings and stabbings, I just like, what was your like, first kind of major lesson that you got along the way? Or, like, did you have a mentor, like, some of that, like, saw some potential in you growing up? I never, I never really had a mentor. I mean, folks saw potential, my first news director saw potential because I was working here at Channel 5. That was my first news job. Fox five. Yeah. Do you know where it is? W and my W? Do you remember metro media? You're not old enough to remember metro media. It's in the old metro media building. Yeah, yeah, is it like this? It's kind of like yeah, it sounds like a Metro, but it's where a current affair started. Do you remember that? It's where it like oh yeah like a tabloid TV started in that building Yeah, and so I worked for the 10 o'clock news and so My first news director one of my first news directors. I was I was behind this a Feel producer and a simulator and said like the coordinator and all that shit and writer and then I wanted to be on air And I put my tape together She said you're really good. I'll put you on started putting me in the air and that's that's how I built my tape How did you know that you'd be good at that? I? New when I was a hot a new when I was a kid Would you say if you're ugly or probably would have been scary don't come on to me It's embarrassing. I'm not coming on to you I'm just like like when you came out of the closet on CNN where they're like women that were like fuck you No, you had to have had like ladies that were like no, they were like I don't care He's still like disappointed you just didn't notice them. Yeah, you definitely had gals Then we're like oh my god. He's the perfect man, and then they're like motherfucker. Yeah, maybe why are all the good ones? They always gay guys. Yeah, like in shape and stuff. We're disgusting slops me and my friend You how how long would you consider that you've been in your field like oh since 1991 92 so you're like that is a dramatic shift in like what media is Yeah, I've seen I've seen everything do you conceive of it as like you've been in the belly of it like a decay or at least a decay of trust Yes a decay of trust because it's become more corporatized over time and that that tends to you know Peel away the trust people don't trust because they think it's too much corporate influence You're talking about like CNN or like network news. What I mean network news But just corporate just corporate media in general just sort of mainstream media. It's all owned by companies who have you know their business to protect and so you got to be careful what you say on the air has that like ever Like conflicted with like like you've had to self-sensor or you had to self-sensor it all the time You've had to sell some bullshit crap. You see me. So like you know But the the failure of the network wants you to like say like oh, yeah, like We don't give you cancer from like no never been told. I will say when I was at CNN I was never told what to say it was never told that you must do something except toward the last Year I was here, which was not very pleasant, but your boss is Zucker when you were there. Yeah, Jeff is awesome Does he regret not giving Trump a better contract offer for the oppresses? No It's kind of a little bit his fault if Trump wasn't like renegotiating for the new season He wouldn't have done the escalator and the run for president But I think that was over. I think you're a timeline as well. I think he was a little bit renegotiating He was like Zucker. I'm gonna be the president. I don't need you and then accidentally the he became the president twice Yeah, it's kind of a Doing it twice as a little bit like shame on Yeah, I would say it's hard to say it's one person's fault because it takes a lot of people in the country Zucker and weener. I think the two Anthony weener well He had it not been for the laptop a week 10 days out from the election. Comey wouldn't have written the letter It's the most damaged done by any one penis of all time we wouldn't have had literally the The end of democracy Thinking about that because you might be right It's butterfly. You might be right if I never thought about that or if they let Trump by the bills He would have just been the tea motor of the Buffalo bills with John Bon Jovi. There's a lot of Ten foil hat moments. We've had over the last couple years, but you met your husband election But it's kind of how do you know this shit? Well, I just thought that was like bizarre that you got so horny from Donald Trump winning I was sad. I was mourning when you were like I'm horned up It's really the best story ever honestly tell us and we talk about it. I think I don't know if he mentioned it in his vows, but He said that God Donald Trump was the president. God is so horny. I think we mentioned it in our like Reception speech that there was one thing good that came out of that, but no, it was it's actually a really good story Do you want to hear? Yeah, I'd love it. So it was election night I'm not I'm not political not a political reporter. So everything went to DC and all the folks in DC So at the night off and then I can't then Chris and I would come in the next day And like do it and then do the fun shit or analysis and so I got invited to this party at Chipriani and Soho or downtown and so it was so it was an election night watch party given by Harvey Weinstein Really? Yeah, really so you were getting a horned up with the No, this is a really beautiful story. So he invited a bunch of people was I was there I think Martha Stewart was there Andrew Cuomo was there That'd be the best miles teller was there. Oh, of course. Yeah, the drummers. Yeah. Yeah, no Bunch of folks and so we met Tim and I met downtown's our first eight Yeah, and we walked in and he sat at a table like this and you know, they make the table bigger So get people around it and when he sat he kicked the thing and everything fell off of the table Oh, it's like a romantic comedy. Yeah, it was like a romantic comedy and then when that settled down He started seeing the numbers come in and they were like oh, yeah, she's still got the man. She's still got Florida I was looking at my seeing an email going. Oh, and then we like let's get out of here And then we went to the polar bar to meet my agent and we watched the results from there and then everyone's like holy shit I was cheering probably a polar board. No, and then We said I don't want to sleep alone tonight because this is pretty fucking scary Really and he ended up staying and I lived in Harlem then Really, yeah, and so the next morning. Yeah, he had to ride home on the subway with a bunch of black people And he's like he wanted to just go I didn't do it. So he's a racist your husband No, he thought people would think that he voted for him He voted for Trump, but he said you know because it was just a little uncomfortable My my parents been in a gay bar actually did they they didn't meet but my dad sealed the deal in a gay bar He had sex with her in a gay bar. No, well, I think that night. I don't know if it was at the gay bar But they kept getting set up on blind dates and she kept me like this fucking guy And she's like this guy sucks and it was like three blind dates or four. So what were they doing in a gay bar? And they were my dad was at a party She shows up with her girls and he's like oh my god. It's the girl from the blind days He's like maybe I'll you know try and chat her up again. Your dad was at a party at a gay bar. No. This is prior to the gay bar Okay, so they just go to a party and it's the girl that hates him from three blind dates And she's like send to her girls. She's like let's get out of here like I want to go dancing, right? And him and his friend like followed them. I guess and they went to a gay bar like a club and My dad was like oh my god. This place is gay So him and his friend like held hands on the way in because they thought that they get caught That's the only way they could get caught for not being gay and I guess that that was the bold What is the test for that you got it? It's cuter than your racist husband It's interesting because like um we're in this place in time right now where I'm kind of afforded Access to I talked to the mayor And it's just I have absolutely no right like I'm just wearing glasses like this grift is about to be up, but What's interesting is like you talked about how like you don't have to wait in line like you did prior like going station to station And that whole pathway is gone Is it a product of like the democratization of media? Is it a product of like everything is the media now everyone's a freaking journal now? We're like well, I don't think everything's a journal everyone's a journal But I think there are different ways to get information like I don't know if you would consider like I don't have to look at Larry King's resume, but a journalist, but he certainly gave information who's an interview I don't think Johnny Carson was a journalist, but you certainly get information from shows like that Yeah, and some of the morning show folks are not journalists there are people who are on now who are not who didn't go to school for journalism But yet there, you know, maybe they took a path and you know for their career, but I think it's good and bad Yeah, it's the democratization of of media sure. Yeah But it's good and bad. It's bad in that there are no standards Like a standardized like definition it would right. It would why isn't there one? Because it's hard to control everything. I mean the internet has made it's everything so hard to control I mean before you just said to get information you didn't have access to information like that You didn't have access to be able I mean this is basically a network in your pocket Yeah, we can go live right now and people will start watching it. It's gonna do it I don't I don't I'm scared of it. I'll make exact touch the buttons, but you weren't able to do that and you know Even yeah, you can have a bell down about wearing a mask in a wall green's been being congressed like two years late Like seriously, it's It feels a little bit like the like the class is used to be classier What the media is just the country of the country used to be classier. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I mean look how we're dressed now I mean to do this we have to wear like a suit or something because better men is so hot right now We have to we're trying to do the thing We're trying to like and you know, it's just like the why can't we just be ourselves. Yeah, but it's good and bad It's bad and again. They're no editorial rigors for the most part and then it's good because You can actually you know, you're not influenced by Someone else's how they want you to tell the story. I think a lot about like when there's like a Like the Boston bombing. I think it was one example of this when there's There's like citizen, like people on Reddit trying to like so. There's like really catastrophic events a lot of the time. Like people like Innocent people are like kind of like. Their lives are fucked with during like moments of crisis like that. And it just feels like sometimes there should be more of a kind of a system in place to like prohibit people from like thinking that they're Batman of the media. Thinking that the dark night of the media. What do you mean, what are you talking about? I'm just saying like, you know, like to me what would make sense because I'm like a freaking pinko, you know, whatever is like there should be just, there should be public media that doesn't have a profit incentive. You mean media that doesn't make people crazy? Well media that's like not trying to make money for G.E. or something. You're like, well that's what I that's what I mean by the corporate media. And that's influencing you can't fuck up a G.E. contract. I'm just I'm just I'm just I'm trying to make money for boner pills right now. Is that is this a better alternative? Like, well, yeah, are people watching you? I think that if you have like a public broadcasting system with like, you know, safeguards that are kind of enumerated by, you know, legislation, like it's the only way to kind of protect people at the end of the day. Well, look, I look at it differently as long as you're not pretending, so you're not pretending to be a journalist, you're you're just being adam. No, I was going to ask you because I have some headlines I want to practice with. And then that's fine. But there are people out there who pretend to be journalists and they're not and they don't, you know, they don't have the range and I don't think you have to do that. I just think there's a difference between being an influencer, a streamer, and a journalist. Not that influencer streamer. This is a long form Jewish style YouTube talk show is very important according to the newspaper. I think it's because I'm wearing glasses. Would you feel like I'm copying you if like I went into the middle of a hurricane and just stood there with a microphone? There are a lot of people who do that, but you're like that's what a journalist is supposed to do to get rained on. Well, that's part of it. That's what a reporter does to doing it. You were into that, though, I could tell. It was interesting. It was interesting. I liked it. Were you the most extreme one? You're like, I'm going to go to the hardest wind. Anderson Cooper doesn't have shit on me. No. No, there was never competition like that, but it was why do we need a guy getting rained on? Yeah, yeah. But people love it. It's so funny. It is. It must be so fun. It is fun until, unless it's freezing and then you're soaking wet and then you end up, you know, pneumonia or something, but yeah, yeah, it is fun. It is fun because everybody watches and you're blowing around and that's kind of fun. They have to see a guy and they just until the worst of the past is you're just standing there and you have to come up with shit to say because they're not going to leave you. If you're aware of the bad weather, hurricane or whatever it is, then they're on you the entire time. So you just have to talk and show shit. So coming from your background, like you're from a religious family from the South, you kind of like made it to New York City, your family back story is pretty interesting. Like, is it true that there was a second family or something like that that you discovered later on in life? No. It wasn't a second family. But there was a divorce or what my mom had divorced her first husband, which is my sister's dad. My mom was like a teen pregnant bride or whatever. But then years later, my mom went to work as she was walking to college. She passed this law office that said they needed a legal secretary needed and she applied and she got it. She went in and got the job and then my dad was an attorney and then they ended up having a relationship. My dad was married but back then, divorces were not quite as easy and he didn't divorce her. The rumor was that she was a lesbian and so they just stayed together. The other wife. The other wife. Sounds like your mom was a little bit being a bitch, maybe. No, she's like, I heard, she's less than my mom. No, my mom never said that. It was actually the other way around. No, really, she was probably crew. Yeah. No, she never spoke ill and she was actually very kind to the woman and I remember the woman never knew. I mean, I think she probably suspected that I was a dad for sure she didn't know but she didn't pry. They just don't ask, don't tell. They let separate lives. So he's a lawyer but he couldn't figure out how to get a divorce? No, it's not he couldn't figure it out. How many of you said that? You just didn't do it. I think he was just being kind. Napoleonic code. I know what you're saying. It's being kind. Yeah. So he was older. Is he your stepfather? older than my mom. Your mom. Is he Mr. Lemon? No. No. My step dad. He was your biological father. He was my biological father but my sister is a lemon. That's her dad. My mom was married and then got a divorce but I just took the last name because my parents weren't married. Was your stepdad your like your father figure growing up? He was my everything but he died when I was seven. Really? Yeah. So it was a lot of girls. Yeah. I was nine. Would you say there's a lot of what? Girls. A lot of girls. I had two sisters. Mom's. Grandma. And then a step sister of my mom remarried. They drove you nuts. They did. Oh my god. If you learn a lot when you're when it's all women and when they're yelling at you, what do you do? You learn to you have to deal with it. How do you deal? They'll yell at you but I mean my sister's did but they were also my biggest protectors. What are your biggest guesses DL Healy? One of my biggest guests. Well, he's a friend. He's a friend. He's a friend. We do we do shows together. And you're also DL. You're Don Lemon. I'm DL. Don Lemon. And at one point I was DL. You were DL. Yeah. David Letterman, active in the DL community. Initially. Was he? He's an inspiration. Did you guys get that? They didn't get it. Initially. Initially. Well, next question. When you moved to New York as like a young gay guy, it must have been incredible. Coming out of the South. In the 90s? In the 90s? It was really fun. Gays was over. Right? It was on a down slope. Well, I mean, you didn't know it then. I mean, there was no cure. It was actually wasn't on the down slope. It was pretty much like it was a height almost. What did you learn about your community? Because those guys that came for the decade before literally went through the Holocaust. I mean, like, you were like the next generation up? Yeah, the next generation up, but still was still part of it. I mean, in the 90s, it was still age. The age was ravaging the community. Yeah. It was scary, but like, people's sexual habits changed. Did it make intimacy, like, scary for like, yeah? I think a lot of people who grew up who are came out around the time. I think they have intimacy issues now. I just think about those old timers. They just like, all of their friends died. Yeah. I don't think that we respect them enough. You think they're OGs? They've been through hell. Yeah. And they also like just like got beaten up and stuff prior to that. Like, they were like, they weren't like on Will and Grace, they were like, they were like thought of as like the fringes of society. They really took the ship. But it was fun then. I kind of liked it when. The thin mustache guys. No, I kind of liked it when being gay was like sort of special and counterculture. Yeah, yeah. And now it's just, you know, all of my friends like everyone I know is just heteronormative. It's gay of being be straight. I feel like. It's what? I feel gay to be straight. You know what I mean? Yeah. When I use it, I'm straight. I'm like, I'm punk rock basically at this point. Yeah. Do you want to go to a gay wedding or a straight wedding? A gay wedding or a straight wedding? Why would a gay guy get married? Exactly. What a waste of games. That's what I'm talking about. What? Where? I know. I mean, my husband is younger, so he wanted to get married. But I didn't. Really like this is ridiculous. But you can't say that. You can't say that to a generation who's now used to having the same sort of rights and the accessibility as everybody else before. They all want to go into sex. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. So they all, you know, the younger folks are, they want to get married. They want to be heteronormative. And for someone like me, it's all well and good. I can do it. But I did not necessarily need to have a wedding or get married. I would like the rights the same rights as everybody else. But I didn't have to do that. Do you hold head them? Do you owe G them? Yeah. Fuck yeah. You're like, listen, young buck. Fuck yeah. Yeah. I do. You're a pull-up. You're a damn pants guy? Kind of. Yeah, yeah. I saw it. I saw you talking about that. Yeah. What you hate most about sagging, well, I don't want to cease the crack of someone's acid and dirty underwear. I just, it's gross. But you like, because it's your community. So you want to like, you want to be like, we, let's hold our, it's like that. That's not, that's not what we're talking about. No, it's like how I'm like, let's not like cause a famine and have a baby storm. You mean the black community? Yeah, yeah. That's how I'm critical about my community. My sagging is, um, let's just not bombard a civilian population with, uh, I just don't joke. I just don't think it's, I mean, necessary. And it also comes from prison culture, like, when you couldn't wear a belt and so. Yeah, but so does the word punk, right? Yeah, but still. But, yeah, but you're not a jailhouse and you use that word punk. Yeah. Like punk rock? Yeah. It used to mean a guy that was getting, uh, having, people were having sex within jail, but then it became. Yeah, but that, that was a different thing. A punk is cool. It was punk is different than the way you say it would be P-O-N-K. Punk? Punk. I think in the 50s it was P-U-N-K. Well, that's that one. There were a prison punk. A punk's word. Oh, we gotta look this up on the foot. Yeah, look it up. We gotta look it up. Yeah, but I am that guy. Yeah. You really are. Is it like, um, but is that, I mean, like, is that the same thing as trying to get married and stuff like a kind of normativity like kind of like a yeah I mean there's a there's on dockers there's kind of no I don't think you have to wear dockers I don't think I'm not saying you have to dress a certain a lot of Jewish guys they were dressing that way and we thought it was the coolest what what they're sagging in like yeah of course oh I mean you're generating my generation of Jewish guys like grew up on hip-hop yeah but it's okay you can get away with it why what what do you say because white guys can get away with it like it's like it's no not Jews I mean white they control them you're the one that's in the media it's different than black kids who are it's a different standard so you're saying I should be allowed to sag but not they're not black kids that doesn't sound fair to black it's okay for you and it's easier for you the sagging thing and it's not going to people aren't going to look on you as some sort of thug or punk because you're doing it I don't think sagging has been a thing for like 15 years I still see people doing it but yes it hasn't been a thing for 15 years you're right and so that's when I you know when I said that was 15 years ago but you go up on the subway to a kid you're like you know this is from prison culture no I don't and this means that you see people I don't see people sagging still I don't look for it I don't know it's normal it's kind of who cares it's worse things I don't care but if you ask me about it I'm gonna give you my you're the one that's saying Jewish people should be allowed to do it in my life I did not say that maybe your husband said that in an election right to you I did going back to the Oprah point like like I met I was an elevator with her once right yeah and I used to always have this like kind of like why the hell do people care so much about this lady like telling you to read books and so and I was in an elevator I was like it is there was she had she's exciting there's something so incredible about her right yeah and like like coming from the south going through news and then kind of getting to the top of of media like who are like your inspirations independent of that like like when you were like this is what I want in my career when I started those this is pre Oprah it would be like Brian Cumble or Max Robinson or Peter Jennings like those were the books that I like and then there was a woman who's an inspiration in my town and they saw on television and that kind of sealed the deal in her name is Gene West she's local news she's a local news lady yeah and then I saw her and I was like oh well that's like my family it's not like yeah and so she was like Jimmy J.J. Walker on the news yeah nothing wrong with that but that was the only representation we had I can't imagine you did not have yeah you know people who looked like me for a lot of people who look like me on the news and she yeah I saw her and I was like oh wow she's amazing when we're black people like did was that a later thing in the 70s and yeah really came to prominence like more so in the 80s on the news on the news yeah what a ridiculous place we live I know that's like not wasn't that long ago and you were like the first no I'm old-heading you're old you're the first gay anchor like cable news I think well the first one the first person who was really out was Rachel Maddow but if she wasn't Rachel Maddow like she is now sure she was I mean she was a big deal and she was on an SNBC and I don't know if Rachel calls herself a journalist or a writer or whatever but anyways she's definitely a television host and she was out which was admirable first she sent me flowers she did the first people he had to reach out and say congratulations yeah you're gonna be great so yeah and then me and there was another guy to me that like that's not like I feel like everyone's gay I feel like the entire Republican part was a big deal but yeah I mean it's it was a big deal back then it's not a big deal now nobody cares if you're covering like a figure that's like working a past legislation that like would damage your community or take rights away from you and you understood that they were gay yeah what is the what is you without them yeah is there like what is the line that you told journalistically like for what outing someone yeah I mean like it's just like I mean my imagination my imagination like it's like a lot of these fellas or like I don't think you need to out someone if they're not a hypocrite right right right so there's like the entire all of the Republicans yeah it's nobody's business but if you are you know yeah proposing legislation or enacting legislation that is you know the antithesis of what you're doing yeah then of course it should be called out did you ever find yourself a weighing that what do you mean as a journalist where you saw like someone doing anti gay kind of legislation or something that you know but I've had to report on it I mean there are lots of figures who are in the news but I didn't know I look again I'm not a DC reporter I did not just report on politics so it wasn't that into it but there certainly were rumors about people and then you'd hear about them hitting on in that you know their interns or staffers and that kind of thing and then advocating for taking rights away from your community yeah it's so happen people would say the more conservative they are the more homophobic so would you consider pulling the trigger more homophobic the other game I imagine because you're thinking about gay all day long you're gay where which is true because if you just just allow yourself to do it you wouldn't have to think about it happy and be rich like you god forbid you think if you were gay gay makes you rich and successful yeah you work harder I think you guys work harder yeah you went into cable 2006 then yep and so that was like end of bush when I went into cable initially like broadcast people look down on cable and even some local people who if you work if you went if you worked for a network oh no which was a network owned and operated station like if you worked for you know a W a B C or W and B C or K to K and B C whatever these were the stations that the networks owned okay that was considered prestigious and then broadcast news was considered procedures and cable was like you know not so cool not so prestigious anybody could work there that's that was a perception and they called it the chicken noodle network right CNN but then that flipped you but but it all but actually it started to it flipped under Trump under Trump because people yeah no way yeah because it became more relevant people are not sure Obama Fox news came up during kind of but pushing it into Obama I feel like that's when it was over yes but the I think that the the the apex or whatever or the zenith of cable news was mad at telling my dad that Putin is trying to kill him no no it was George Floyd covid and Trump all at the same time yeah and you were effective you witnessed all of that as I saw the rise of cable news because people was on all day yeah and and and so the internet started to come in and people realize I don't have to wait until five o'clock or six o'clock or six thirty to get the news I don't have to just get the news on the morning show and then wait all day to get an evening broadcast and so people just started watching more cable news kind of too much of the news to much of the news and then that's when cable became bog in fashion and then then I just happened to be it was just timing for me yeah did you like I'd never watch CNN before I went to work there I had no idea who the people were like a concept of like we're part of an institution that is losing the public and we're desperate to like keep their attention somewhat like we say again what like the like did you feel like because the point we're at right now is that like faith in traditional like corporate media is like the lowest it's ever been I feel like like people just think it's everything's a lie and they think you know people watch YouTube now right like a number one network right and it's like did you feel it while you're in corporate media did you feel that grip loosening I did feel it loosening but not as much as it had because I was still in a bubble and when you're there because you are so you know a meshed in it you know you think that everyone is paying attention and so I would say oh my gosh you know did you hear about I'd be covering something all day and then I'd go hang out with friends or people and I would say blah blah blah blah blah and then go what's that yeah and so I think people you know in especially in cable news I think that everyone is paying attention to everything and it's not so partially it is I think you know Fox News kind of started it you know Roger Ailes kind of started the go the yeah he kind of started people to the distrust in news yeah because he inserted you know characters right ring right wing characters into you know the primetime ecosystem but part of it it's partially our own fault and I include myself as well do you have a regret or is there something you look like I can't criticize corporate media and because I was a part of it for such a long time it's only been you know three years since I've been gone from corporate news and people still associate me with it but there are things that you know what I probably could have done that would have helped but you're gonna save the news well I think it I think if I could have done honestly and I don't probably at the time I can't because I'm looking back now and with a twenty five lens on you know 21 20 22 23 23 I think if I could do in that corporate structure what I do now it would be much more beneficial for America the world and the corporate structure that's what they're missing I think that I think the folks in those the corporate media should start hiring people like you and like me to come in and do yeah but yeah but they don't have to you don't they don't have to promote you as a news show you can be a talk show on the on the network yeah I mean I I think because it's hard to you have to you have to you have to - I'd probably get in trouble. - No, you would. I'm just like me having the show here is that I have kind of creative autonomy. But if they allowed you to do that, then they probably wouldn't. Yeah, they wouldn't. They wouldn't, but if they did, I think it would be much better for them. Yeah. They wouldn't lose revenue and viewers. What do you think that shift is? When you say they need people that are doing more like what you're doing right now? What if you changed something? Well, they need people who are authentic. The thing that I had to untrain myself, untrain and retrain myself. Yeah, because I used to second-guess myself all the time, like second-third, like, before anything came out of my mouth, I was like, okay, you know. But that's good. It's the news. No, I'm not always. Because then people at home aren't getting what they should be getting. And people, and you're not serving, it's not relatable. Because people at home aren't filtering themselves that much. You're saying the presentation has to be authentic. The presentation has to be. Sometimes when you just let it rip, you need like sourcing and you need to be sure. I'm talking about sourcing the whole different thing. I'm not saying let it rip and lie. I'm saying have the conversations that people really have at home, and, you know, that are more productive. Do you miss the Jussie Smolette story? I just miss it. The Smolette story? It was just so nice. When you think back to it, it's like, whoa, that was a great-- What was nice about that? It was nothing nice about that. He was just a liar. He was a liar. You said you got attached to that somehow, no? I got attached to that wrongfully, because I never believed it. Who's with Smolette? That was a liar. You were-- you helped it. Yeah, that was a lie. Well, you were the third-- I'm telling you. I'm talking-- I'm talking-- I'm talking brothers and you. You were the third accessory. No. No. That's what I understand. No, stop it. I found that out on the-- No, you know what happened is, he-- I knew him from-- we had mutual friends from Harlem. From the liar communities. And I knew it was a lie right away, like immediately. I knew it was a lie. How'd you know-- he hates me because I called him out. You texted me. You said-- But if you-- But that's not out there in the narrative. Everyone thinks like, oh my god, you-- I was like, no, he's a liar. No one believed it. In Chicago, at like 10 degrees outside that someone is looking for-- With a new-- With a new-- With a new-- With a new-- Even know what he who he was. Well, because it's huge. Power is one of the biggest shows on television. It's not power. It was empire. Empire, yeah. So everyone was trying to get an interview with him. And I had his number. So I was trying to get an interview with him. And I said, justly, come on. I'm in there. I don't know. I didn't give a fuck if they saw my text. No, he was protecting you. No, he's not protecting you. You should say thank you to Jesse a little bit for-- No, there's nothing in there that would have gotten me in trouble except for trying to get an interview. No, I think he was expecting you. So you said you-- they have-- I think he was just lying. I think he was just lying. There's something nice about a liar like that, right? You like that? Like a gay liar? There's something charming. Like, what's his name? From the Republican congressman, Santos. It's just-- But who's a Santos effect? There's something kind of just like great. Like this guy is going for it with the lies. I don't know if he has to be gay. It can't last forever, right? I know, but I don't know if he has to be gay. There are a lot of heterosexual liars. No, but there's something funny or funnier if it's like-- 'cause it's more-- Do you think of Trump as like a campy figure or a queen? Trump is so gay. Yeah. And it's-- That's like that before. You guys are surprised by that, are you? He's marketed in terms of like machismo. But if you like, look at like even the interior of the house. You can't look, he's taken over a gay anthem. YMCA. That's the gay song ever. It's incredible. The cruising-- I can't even enjoy it anymore. His song is a cruising for Dick's song. Yeah. At the YMCA, in the locker room. I mean, it just must-- You really should do a right one, Pivot. It must be so fun. I should become a right wing. First of all, the money is good. Oh, I thought about it. Your weight. The money is good. How much fun, this batshit old queen is talking about it. You're about 15 years away. A golfer's dick size, probably 100 years ago. You're 15 years too late. Can you imagine if I had become-- Everyone thought, before Trump, people thought I was a black conservative on CNN. I still think so. Okay, yes. I think you're conservative in whatever-- I have some-- I have some-- Federman's clothing. I have some conservative leanings. I do, but-- What are your main conservatives? The pulling up the pants? Well, that's-- Come on, you got to quit with that. It's not nice in the kids. Oh, I'm a rich guy. I'm a rich guy. And I'm telling you that your problem is pants. Maybe there's just a bit-- Maybe there's-- It was a hand-me-down pants. And they're growing into it. You don't-- What, their butt cracks are holding them back in this world? Tom, it's getting-- I have a vape. I'm sorry. Is there any water around this deal? Yeah, let's get a water. I want to get a-- A novella, actually. A novella? No, I'm sorry. I was really cooking about that. This episode is brought to you by eBay Live. Here's how it goes. First, you're just watching eBay Live, seeing some rare finds, not even bidding, just lurking. And then you see a rare rookie card. Go for an absolute steal. A 90s handbag comes up, and you have to jump in. Maybe put that rookie card in the handbag. Maybe you lose your first auction. You bid again and win. And that winning feeling, it's such a rush because, you know, everyone else wanted it to. Meanwhile, on eBay Live, you don't just watch the action. You're in it. Download the eBay app to stream and shop live. eBay Live! Things people love. Kane! Dude, gay guys like Bob Dylan. I've always wondered. I feel like no. Yeah. It's a good question. Yeah, of course. No. What do you mean? Like his music? Yeah. Yeah. That's not something you're going to dance in. He's like Streisand for me. He's my Streisand. Right? Yeah, gay men like Bob Dylan. No, they like having fun and stuff. Oh, this Bob Dylan makes you sad. No, they want to be all weepy. No, it's about like, you know, it's just, it feels like it's, I don't know. What's your Bob Dylan song? Every single thing. I mean, like, you can't even, brother, you can't even start. Is there a competition like when you're at the top? No. Like, there are such few spots, right? Like, you were like, you were at, like, do you want back in the game? No. No. No. You don't want back in the game. No. But you got the desk and stuff and the suit. Yeah, but that's all rented. Who cares? I mean, it's just, it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's kind of a, I guess as legacy media fades. There is still a press. It's like, why talk shows still exist? Yeah. No one's watching fucking late night, right? But it's kind of this legacy media product that you just have to have. People performing for themselves. Well, I don't know. And just. Fallen's the only one watching Fallen. But, you know, it's just kind of a thing you're supposed to have. No, but a lot of the people who are watching are like industry, kind of industry, kind of people who are still attached to that kind of television. Which is great. I mean, I love Jimmy Fallon. I know Jimmy. I know Kimmel. He's a colleague here. Yeah. And Seth. Yeah, Seth. Great shows. And, you know, even the cable news. So people still watch it. Television has a prestige. It's going to have it for a minute. But, no. I get the same. I get the same thing out of doing it the way that I did when I was there without the pretense. It's just. You could say anything on this crap. Yeah. I have to stop myself because like now comedians, people think are smart. Same. Yeah. I'm one of the dumbest guys. Right? And I could just say, COVID transmission, vaccine, red. And the people would be like, it's on the screen. Yeah. And there must be something to it. You know? But I think comedians perform a very important role. No. I do. No, it's too much. They're making too much of it. Well, I don't know. My friend, D.L., is very important, I think. From the community. From the community. Yeah. He also gives information. And he's very political. And he's in tune with the news. And I would watch him for. Don't get the news from a comedian. Get it from the news. Do you think that you're different than me? You think you're different than someone who's on television. We're all human beings. We're multi-faceted. It's not like you're just a one-note person. No one is. I think seeing how. You remember when a conspiracy theorist used to be a guy that smelled like pee at the library? Or your uncle? It used to just be in a smelly-ist. And he was wearing a Vietnam jacket. You're like, good luck with that library guy. Now, literally nothing is real anymore. And I feel like that's really. Things are happening so fast. Now that guy has a very successful podcast, it makes millions of dollars. No, that guy is still in the library smelling like me. He's like, I could have done this. That guy just still smells like piss. Do you find yourself engaging with this as a beat? Or as an area of focus? Do you find that it affects your. No. I don't engage in conspiracy theories on. Well, but you're covering this show. And I don't cover that. I don't cover that. It was fake. But it's a lot of it. A lot of it is out there. And I believe you do have to have some sort of evidence that you become a conspiracy theorist. Like people think that there are anomalies with the election. And so, okay, it's okay to think that. But no one is pushing it through and asking people to change votes because of it. Or, you know, some investigation that's gonna continue to go on and on and on forever when there's actually no evidence to happen, but people do believe it. So that's why I asked. What was it like being on the news January 6th? Um, kind of surreal because. They thought they were gonna win? Yeah. They're running at the building. They thought they were gonna beat the government? They thought that they had won. What do you mean, win? They're like smoked weed in the counter until. They thought that they had won the election and therefore that they were going. Oh, I get that. You know, for just if it was justified to go on. They kind of did like, uh, like, uh, pranks when they got into the building. There's a guy who's like, "I'm gonna fart on Pelosi's chair." No, they didn't. Another guy took a podium? No, they shit on stuff. They pooped. I mean, that's kind of like. They pooped and peed on stuff. It was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen anyone try. Well, isn't that kind of the point? And it's probably why they were pardoned because he realized I think at some level that he co-opted those poor people and that he manipulated them. No, he was probably. They're grown-ass people, but. I'm gonna get this caveman out of Gitmo. Fuck you. I'm Trump. Yeah. Do you think he's ever gonna get in trouble for anything? Um. No. It's awesome. Well, now, I mean, he's president. But if he wasn't president, he might be in an orange jumpsuit. Yeah, come on. How many times we said that? No, if he wasn't president. Of course. Teflon Dawn. He gets away with. Well, he's gotten away with all of it, pretty much. Never gets in trouble. Yeah. They throw all the cases out, or they put them on hold. He really defeated you guys, I think. I was never. And what with him? Well, what it is was like, um. The media's there. But he did. He actually did damage the media a lot. Trust in the media, yeah. Because the fact check never worked, right? Because his followers know he's lying, right? Yeah. So it's like, if they know he's lying, but they say he's lying for us. No, I don't think it's followers. What is the purpose of, like, a check on that? No, I don't think they know he's lying. They just think that they don't care. I think they know he's lying. I don't think that some of them understand that he's lying. Because they actually believe it. There are true believers out there. There are people who believe the economy is great and better right now. Okay, so what did you hear about the island? Was it fun on the island? How did you think the other way? You said you knew. Well, what? The island. What island? Was it like. Was it like steel drums? Like the girls gone wild commercial? What island are you talking about? You know the guy. The main. You know, the talk guy. Did you say it? Who? Mr. Epstein. Was he funny? Do you know you would have gotten on that plane if someone. I would have been so impressed by the wealth. And then I would have gotten there and be like, "Dursh, what are you doing?" It's a. I mean, that's another thing where it's like. It seems like there's been a break, right? Between the Magga kind of. What is Magga at this point? If Marjorie Taylor agrees, it's like, "I'm out." Like, what. I think a lot of people are out. A lot of people are going to. I think a lot of people are going to fall out. I think she's kind of leading the way as an example. And I think she's more, at least for now, I don't see that she's lost any power. You fuck with her? No, not really. I mean, I see her for who she is, but I would sit down and talk to her. Who is she? What's her vibe? She's a. Is she funny? No. She's a bigot. She's a loudmouth. She's smarter politically than I gave her credit for. But she is all those things that she did before. She started saying the right thing. Before the pivot. How many times have you met the gentleman, Mr. Trump? Oh, got a lot. Ten, maybe. Yeah. I interviewed him many times. What do you make of him? Look, he can be charming in person, but. I find him to be very insecure. I just don't like liars. That's. Lying is my thing. That's the only. That's one of the only things that. What's the last lie you told? Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. I don't lie. Come on, bro. I don't lie. That's one of my things. I will tell you that. I'd rather tell you the truth. You were on the Communist news, never. You definitely lied. Don't lie. You've never told. No, I have told a lie, but I don't lie. I tried to think of the last lie you told me. The last time I lied, I think I told these guys I was excited to do this show. Sure. Oh. I guess like. What's your kind of project? Like moving forward? If you see your career is shifted. Right? Like. What is. What is the ambition? Right? And how does it like. Where does it fit in? Where do you see yourself fitting it? Well, I'd like to. To build my network and have some folks who are working for me correspondence everywhere and have my own little. Yeah. network or big network. Yeah. And that's it. And these guys? Yeah. They're part of it. Are you ready for on air? They've been on air. We've been on air. What do you guys do? What are your big hits? The Clip Farmers. Yeah. We have a podcast that just went on TMZ. Oh, you got TMZ? That's big. TMZ does. What? You TMZ your own guys? No. Yes, you get us sort of kind of. Well, I didn't put it on. We were also on IRL. We went to the protest that we were interviewing people while he was in the studio. On TMZ? No. On the podcast, but we do like. We help with the live stream. We go to the Capitol and we go live from the Capitol, the office buildings. Yeah. Are you to send one of these guys to a hurricane? See what they're made out of? I think they'd be great. He's from Florida. His dad actually did hurricane cover tour. Oh, we're Florida. You have the experience. But you look sturdier as a gentleman. You know, I think I can withstand those winds. Does he like bring you into a conference room and they have like a kind of a swamp fan? And he kind of test you out. See if you're ready for the hurricane. Yeah. That's actually. That's the other. You're not category four material, sir. No, you're not. Yeah. His dad is a meteorologist. He's a weatherman. Really? So he does hurricane cover show. He's on this show? He's on the. My show. Can we get a weatherman? You should. I really appreciate your time. I think it must be like. For you to have seen such a shift in your field. I think. I guess it's like. Is there a course correction that's required? I mean, that's my main kind of. I think so. I was left wondering. This. Like, you know, getting pushed out of scene and I think was the. A blessing in disguise. Because I got to. Like, not many people get to reinvent themselves later. And I got to reinvent myself. What about for how people consume like the news, though? Well, that's. Well, this is where people are consuming the news. Yeah. And so I want to be where the audience is. The audience is on social media and streaming or digital. It's on YouTube. Yeah. It's not, you know, no longer. Well, it's still there at the networks, but, you know, less, less so every day. How do we, like, avoid like the lack of kind of formal editorial process that you can be exposed to? Really mean, how do we avoid it? Like, I mean, online. You could say anything right now. You could say Adam Friedland is, like, the fucking smartest guy in the world. And then some guy will see. It's on a screen. He'll, like, believe it. Adam Friedland is the smartest guy in the world. Don't love me. Thanks a lot, man. Thanks, my brother. Bye. [Music] Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. 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