Speaker 1Welcome to the podcast. I'm probably going to butcher this a little bit. This is from your text to me. I'm so excited to have you. And so you told me you've made $100 million the first half of this year. You've owned stakes in eight home service companies and managed more than 100 Google business profiles, along with their websites. You're specializing in personal injury law. You've been doing SEO since 2009. And you have produced music for some of the biggest names in hip hop. Let's go. Oh, and you're a listener of the podcast. Let's go. Let's go. I'm a big fan.
Speaker 2I'm a big fan. Yeah, I watch you. I watch you pretty much every day. My ritual during the week is I hit the gym, and then I hit Starbucks afterwards. And I watch your stuff. And then about halfway through, normally, I take that and I put it into Manus and transcribe it, and then have it add any knowledge that it wants to my certain tasks, you know what I mean? My certain operations in there. So yeah, every day. And then the $100 million thing is actually just the one law group that I work for right now. That's what they did in the first six months this year. Okay. So I'm their SEO. It's definitely a ramp up from where they were at before. So yeah, so I've helped them pretty much conquer this area. I've helped them, you know, in the matter of- How much of their success is from SEO? A good amount? A big chunk. A big chunk. A big chunk. They run a lot of ads, too, and stuff like that, too. Of course, all lawyers, you got to run a lot of ads in pretty much in any space right now. But yeah, yeah, they run a lot of ads as well. But yeah, SEO has been a big part of that success, for sure.
Speaker 1For sure. And you're crazy niched down into personal injury law and managing more than 100. managed more than a hundred google business profiles
Speaker 2yeah yes yeah yeah so personal injury um i have that the uh the majority of my uh google business profiles uh are in home service uh companies that i own a percentage of i basically have gotten sweat equity from marketing so now i'm i got i got put into the companies and own a percentage of them um so i have about actually over 100 probably about 115 right now we we make about five to ten new ones a month um so if if we start a new brand we'll start a new brand and we'll do at least 10 gbps just for that brand um normally within the first six weeks um so we create one one main brand and then we create um three or four supporting brands that basically are like lead gen for ourselves so so we'll have the main brand that we work on is like the long-term brand and then we'll have the long-term brand that we work on is like the long-term brand and then we have basically the the lead gen brands that you have to get extra contractors license you have to do all that stuff and and everything but uh it's it's it's worth it because then we end up with about 40 gbps in in one niche um in one area are you
Speaker 1managing all of those google business profiles and and are there do you face limitations when setting them up
Speaker 2um there's a lot there's a lot of problems when setting them up we've created an entire system just for setting up the program that that actually opera has the operation of where that where that listing is at do we have the proper stuff for it yet because you have to get the signage and and rent the building and and do all the things you got to do to to you're doing all of that yeah yeah we i have i have a partner you know and on that yep yep and he he helps with a lot of that end um i most i mostly do the seo end but i assist obviously in that as well um and yeah it's it's going it's i manage a lot of gbps um and it's it's it's it's a lot man
Speaker 1man and and you said uh yeah most of your time though is spent is spent growing your own businesses yeah
Speaker 2yeah the majority of it's spent on that um i just got into the personal injury thing a couple years ago i honestly didn't start taking clients until about three or four years ago um i was i was just doing my own thing the might as well just start getting some clients so i started getting other home service clients at first and uh just the the dollar value is not not big enough in most cases to actually even give this proper service you know and two three thousand bucks a month is is really tough to to provide really what they need you know um in a lot of cases so when i got introduced to the personal injury space it was like okay this is this is real okay they got a big enough budget to work with and what are what
Speaker 1are the budgets that you get
Speaker 2um personal injuries normally anywhere between 15 and 30 000 a month um in in most cases from from what i've seen so um with that and then they they'll normally pay for things too if you need if they need things if you tell them they need things they just they just do it you know in most cases um and they also have admin to help and assist so that's that's another big thing in personal injury i've noticed the difference between working with corporate and working with contractors is they have a lot more admin to help carry out certain things that need to happen you know um whether it be signing up to try to get jobs or getting press they have they have people on the press press game and stuff like that so um you don't necessarily have to take care of every little thing for them you know as well which yeah yeah which is which is very helpful yeah yeah yeah
Speaker 1and uh this method of marketing is so effective i had to make sure it wasn't against google's rules before i kept using it it's a form of seo i call compact keywords whereas most seo focuses on putting up articles to answer questions how what when compact keywords are a form of seo i call compact keywords are a form of seo i call compact keywords focus on putting up dozens of pages that sell to searchers who are actually looking to buy these pages rank on google and convert so much better than normal that when i discovered this years ago i couldn't believe this was allowed it's less work too the average compact keywords landing page is only 415 words compact keywords is a 13-hour deep course on getting sales with seo a customer said we spent nearly 18 000 in the last year and a half on marketing and seo through different agencies locally and that did not solve the problem we decided to take the leap on the compact keywords course we're now getting about six to eight calls per day on a good day which is just unheard of another customer said give it to a junior employee have them follow it exactly as edwards laid out you don't have to do anything and you're going to gain a six-figure seo level employee just by having them go through this course compact keywords is about setting up an seo funnel that brings you sales for years and years and years it works with ai it's less work than traditional seo and it's less work than professional seo and it makes way more money you can get it now at compactkeywords.com back to the podcast do you think personal injury law is for seo is as difficult as the industry says it is no no no and it's crazy because i think personal injury law has the highest cost per clicks yeah
Speaker 2yeah i obviously it depends on the city of course you know um any major metro is going to be somewhat difficult but i think personal injury law is the highest cost per clicks yeah yeah obviously it depends on the city of course you know um any major metro is going to be somewhat difficult but yeah i obviously it depends on the city of course you know um any major metro is going to be somewhat difficult but you know um any major metro is going to be somewhat difficult but um for example uh for the biggest car um for example uh for the biggest car um for example uh for the biggest car accident lawyer terms accident lawyer terms accident lawyer terms uh this site i've been working on uh this site i've been working on uh this site i've been working on recently recently recently they were never in the top 20 or 30 and it they were never in the top 20 or 30 and it they were never in the top 20 or 30 and it only took me about only took me about only took me about two or three months to get him to number two or three months to get him to number two or three months to get him to number two which is only underneath like super two which is only underneath like super two which is only underneath like super lawyers or lawyers or lawyers or you know those directory sites that you you know those directory sites that you can't really pass up can't really pass up can't really pass up um pretty much you know every once in a um pretty much you know every once in a um pretty much you know every once in a while you can beat them but it's really while you can beat them but it's really while you can beat them but it's really hard to hard to hard to to beat a site that authoritative uh but to beat a site that authoritative uh but to beat a site that authoritative uh but yeah it's it's not any harder than i'm yeah it's it's not any harder than i'm yeah it's it's not any harder than i'm in the locksmith game in the locksmith game in the locksmith game um and that game is actually um and that game is actually um and that game is actually a little bit tougher um in some ways a little bit tougher um in some ways and then the home service game can be and then the home service game can be and then the home service game can be tougher too because you got guys with tougher too because you got guys with tougher too because you got guys with 12 000 reviews not just 12 000 reviews not just 12 000 reviews not just 500 reviews you know you got you got 500 reviews you know you got you got 500 reviews you know you got you got monsters you know people who have been monsters you know people who have been monsters you know people who have been around a long time um there's so many so around a long time um there's so many so around a long time um there's so many so many injury lawyers with that many many injury lawyers with that many many injury lawyers with that many reviews it's not it's not quite as reviews it's not it's not quite as
Speaker 1reviews it's not it's not quite as extreme let's let's start with google extreme let's let's start with google extreme let's let's start with google business profile when you set up a new business profile when you set up a new business profile when you set up a new gbp gbp gbp what uh what are the most important what uh what are the most important what uh what are the most important factors what are the things that you factors what are the things that you factors what are the things that you have to get right and and yeah and then have to get right and and yeah and then have to get right and and yeah and then what and what do you actually do to get
Speaker 2what and what do you actually do to get what and what do you actually do to get them right them right them right um honestly you know you know i do the the basics of course obviously making sure the services are right making sure uh their categories are picked correctly but what it comes down to the funny thing is some people think i'm crazy but the reality is is it's it's all about reviews at the end of the game i've had beat gbps that were set up horribly did you know and and you know maybe they were put up really quickly by us and we just weren't paying attention at first and we got a ton of reviews did all the other right things and it didn't matter at all it does it if you have the right if you have the right review count and the right keywords within the reviews if you're if your clients are leaving getting the right things in their pictures and whatnot um and then even if it's not attached to a website sometimes it doesn't even have to have a website like if i've literally won areas with with no website attached at all so um that's not what i prefer that's just by having because you had great reviews yeah yeah the the gbp ranking system is is so based on that a little bit of third party you know what i mean too it does pay attention to yelp and the stuff that it shows in the uh also on the web you know they're on the profile you got to pay attention to those and try to get reviews on those and obviously in the ai game that is the whole ai game at least in in home services and from what i've seen from legal as well um but yeah you know you know the basic stuff just just make sure the right categories are there making sure the right services are there if you fill out the description for the services you can or you can't i have never really seen a up or a down on that necessarily um but honestly the only thing that ever i've seen move the needle is is is reviews and and obviously links to a landing page and the landing page being proper changing the h you know that instant gratification you get when you change someone's meta title sometimes because they don't have have the city in it or they don't have the main keyword in it or something like that but besides those major things you don't normally notice large super upticks besides when you get more reviews or get negative reviews removed that's that's that's just as big as getting new reviews because that that average rating is just as important as the amount of reviews by far just recently we had a location for um for for a lawyer that they they were just stuck couldn't get him to move at all and i couldn't figure it out we had every every other aspect we were killing all the competition it didn't make any sense more links more everything right and the only thing was they had they had 80 80 one-star reviews although they had thousands of positive reviews and the other companies didn't even have a thousand reviews at all we just couldn't move we just couldn't get out of that pocket so um i hired we hired the company called removeify and they uh they removed about four of them and just shot up just instantaneously yeah four just four negative reviews gone and it changed the entire did you
Speaker 1expect that or was it unexpected well i
Speaker 2i knew it was going to happen because we had we had we had tipped the scales prior um from getting new reviews we tipped it from a 4.8 to a 4.9 sometime in march and i saw it happen because i i do my scans um every three to five days it's expensive uh bright local as she's bright local but but i but i i scan them constantly i don't i don't do it once a month i do it because i want to know what happened i want to be able to pinpoint what i did what i was doing and why it happened you know so uh we're doing it that way so i knew the exact dates when it happened and i was like oh we actually had a 4.9 for that quick little three week period or you know what i mean so i was like so that was we like finally found the reason why that listing was stuck you know and and so we've been trying so hard to get that balance but you know obviously getting positive reviews you have to get 40 or 50 or whatever for every one negative one so that takes takes some time you know um and then when google came through and removed a bunch of reviews from everybody there it brought us back down to the 4.8 um but then when we got those removed bang right back up so yeah having the average star rating even if you have a ton of reviews you would you would think they'd try to reward you a little better because you have so many you know but uh the average star rating is still so huge so huge you have a system for
Speaker 1reviews for getting positive reviews you just talked about getting negative reviews oh yeah removed yeah yeah
Speaker 2yeah i i when you do it on your own you know you just want to report it yourself and then what we'll do is we'll normally report ourselves through the main account and then we'll report it through a lot of local guide accounts that we have access to uh through people and then also our own account so normally average of 10 or 20 and sometimes that'll get rid of it um but when it doesn't get rid of it you want to hire somebody like a remove a fire somebody else that'll do whatever they do honestly i'm not really sure what magic sauce they put in there but uh they did something that we weren't doing so um not not trying to plug them extra but i i am excited that they were actually able to do something you know uh we weren't able to do there so how about forgetting how about forgetting reviews forget lots of
Speaker 1yeah lots of people have different different systems for getting reviews i've had many seos on the show talk about them but yeah i think everyone's doing something a little bit different
Speaker 2yeah yeah when if you're in the home service industry it's a lot about the technicians technicians have to be good at persuading reviews you know they have to be good at you know uh convincing the customer that you know that if they get a review it helps them it helps their family it helps their you know and i mean it helps their livelihood or and if you're an owner of a business you obviously you would do that same thing um for for the legal stuff it's a little different you know they gotta they normally do after contact you know whether it be through email or text and i know normally recommend them doing multiple points of contact um after after a client uh after they're done and getting a settlement and whatnot so um it's a little more difficult you know clients aren't as forthcoming with that they don't want to always leave a review about their situation or whatever it may be so um you gotta be a little more sensitive but you gotta you gotta push i think a lot of times i see is most clients they're just scared to push and it's it's like if but if you don't do it if you don't get reviews you're just gonna lose let me ask you this you're not gonna win let me ask you
Speaker 1this you're starting with a new google business profile and you're going up against competitors who already have reviews who already have good reviews maybe they have like they don't have the best gbps but still like decent and okay but and now you have a new google business profile how like what are you doing how are you how are you even getting business to get the reviews so you can so you can climb what what are you what's your strategy with a completely new
Speaker 2google business profile um if it's completely new now if you have no business at all that that brings in a whole different different factor right so then then i say you get reviews by any means necessary you know we'll leave that talk about that no no talk about that yeah whether whether it be friends family i don't care if you got to go out on the streets i don't i i mean do whatever you got to do you know what i mean google has its guidelines but at the end of the day if if you're not going to break in without at the end of the day you're a new business you don't have much to lose no you don't and and and also if if you realize that you're within a few blocks or even a mile of a super strong business like that you got to move you either got to move or you got to get another location um a lot of business owners i noticed they're very uh they're very weird about getting second locations they don't they don't understand why you have to do it so you have to explain to them you know how google treats everybody like a pizza shop and you have a radius and and all that stuff but they they're really resistant uh they you know because it is there is there's normally a suspension in the beginning and and all the stuff you have to deal with a lot of times they don't always go through and then you have to give them the evidence that you have every everything and you're you're actually at that location um you have to have a dba in place and all that stuff so there's certain steps you got to take to get gbps passed you want to make sure you have all your paperwork ready you know your proof of address make sure you have signage uh make sure you have tools there whatever you need to do um and we'll rent offices so we'll rent little cheap offices around town put signage up and all that stuff and it's got to appear as you're operating there you know and you can use it as a satellite too if you want but you know you gotta it's got to look it's got to look right you know so uh but but a lot of people are very scared of that and they think it's like the hardest process in the world and it's a little tedious but the amount of money you get from having a new listing is so huge that i don't understand why everyone's so you've done you've
Speaker 1done it so often just walk walk listeners through just how to do it how
Speaker 2you do okay okay so first off the first off to and make sure their business name has proper keywords in it so if their business name doesn't have proper keywords in it we have them get a dba so you're doing business as so register that register the dba make sure you put put the proper keywords in there you want so make sure you put the proper keywords in there you want so we'll put it out we'll max it out to the we'll put it out we'll max it out to the max so whatever gbp allows for the business name will max so whatever gbp allows for the business name will have like uh it could be ace ac repair and have like uh it could be ace ac repair and plumbing services you know what i mean it of city name yeah
Speaker 1plumbing services you know what i mean it of city name yeah yeah yeah yeah fill out the example fill yeah yeah yeah fill out the example fill out the example so this is going to be for the dba so what out the example so this is going to be for the dba so what
Speaker 2would the business name be yeah so it would would the business name be yeah so it would be like that so basically if they want water heaters be like that so basically if they want water heaters say they're a plumber and they want water say they're a plumber and they want water heaters we'll make sure that plumbing's in the name heaters we'll make sure that plumbing's in the name somewhere or plumbers is in the name somewhere somewhere or plumbers is in the name somewhere and then also uh it could be water heater removal and then also uh it could be water heater removal in the name somewhere or water heater repair whatever it may be whatever you want to make it make it make sense sound wise to you want to sound as right as possible too right but as long as you have the dba in place and i actually heard joy mentioned that they'll like report keyword stuffing on people's uh things but as long as you have the dba in place you're safe because you can say look no this is this is officially my doing business business has name so even if someone did report you doing that and and and it came down got suspended for a second you would be able
Speaker 1to get it right how do you
Speaker 2get the dba um you you just you just go through the uh was that the social security well not social security what's the the state secretary of state office here um i've only done it in arizona so i wouldn't know necessarily outside of arizona but that's all you have to do there it's it's it's pretty much the same process of like creating an llc or you could create an entire another llc too if you want if that's if you if you want to go that route if you want to just change the name completely um we've done that in cases too and but and
Speaker 1you're doing you're doing that for every location
Speaker 2yeah yeah yeah yeah in most cases in most cases some cases we won't add the city name at the end and then we don't only have to do it once and then you have that dba for for all locations right yeah yeah yeah so because you're because
Speaker 1you're you're so because you want the actual location name
Speaker 2in the business name yeah sometimes yeah yep yep it's not totally necessary you could totally win without that the keywords the the keywords for the niche are much more important of course uh than the city name because it would
Speaker 1be i mean it would be a lot easier if you didn't have to do if you didn't have to get a dba for every location yeah yeah
Speaker 2it would it would it would and we and we may be overdoing it who knows but that's that's that's the route we go but we're going to have to do it again and we're going to have to do it again and we're going to have to we do we do know the keywords in their work for sure you know what i mean and so uh we we always try because you can
Speaker 1you can still do the like uh the the dave's water heater repair and pesky control you can see you and you can and you can do that and you can have that across across locations
Speaker 2yeah yeah and then and then it's easier to brand wise normally normally for a client i wouldn't recommend them putting the city name now okay for us for us we're talking about we'll have we'll have one lead brand so when we have the lead brand we just put the brand name so say it's the the u.s garage door heroes right say it's that um that would be the same name across the board on all the locations now if we want to create the supporting brands which are the lead generation sites um those would have a different name and then that's where we get into the super stuffing stuff like what uh like what like just just like i was talking about so if it was like a garage door you'd want repair and installation and whatever else in there so you can rank for all those terms you're making emds
Speaker 1exact match domains you're saying what
Speaker 2no this is for gbps oh gbp so so sites too so they'll have a site attached to them too so basically when for what we have set up right now we have one main brand in each niche that we're in so um our main things are garage door locksmith and then ac ac repair and plumbing right so but we have one main brand for each one and then we have three or four sub brands whatever you want to call them that are just lead generation basically that that company is servicing so it would be like if someone was going to be a lead gen for plumbers and then running them out but they're running them to themselves basically utilizing gbps as well because if you don't use gbps you get like nothing the the organic traffic and home services and stuff is so it's so low you know what i mean well now it didn't used to be used to survive off that um but yeah so it it has to have you have to have the gbps involved which which is where a lot of people don't do it because it's very difficult a lot of tedious dealing with google every single week constantly okay so
Speaker 1so walk us through the rest of you you setting up a new gbp okay so so where were we at we're at the um we got stuck on the on the putting keywords in the name oh yeah yeah i started going down the rabbit hole and
Speaker 2asking all these questions that's the way it goes that's the way it goes yeah no well i want to give
Speaker 1the most detailed answers to to listeners because like i want i want listeners this is what i try walk away knowing exactly what to
Speaker 2do for sure for sure and then so when you get to when you get to categories i know a lot of people say to put as many categories as you can and all that stuff and i kind of believe that but i it's mostly about the categories that you want because you don't want to put something in there that say say you're a injury lawyer and then you just put you know attorney or law firm that now you're going to get some more generalistic leads that you don't even want coming into your phone right and then you may rank less for that very specific thing that you really want because they're they're you know google from what i've seen they they seem to rotate to they have a rotation because they're trying to get you to buy ads they're not you know what i mean that they're trying to rotate out the gbps a little bit uh there's some consistency but there's some rotation um but yeah so basically uh category you want it to be right but i don't i don't believe in the whole thing where you have to put a bunch of maxing it out with all the categories or even matching what your competitors are doing because you can match what your competitors are doing category wise but they're most likely ranking the majority of time because of their reviews and they're on page and their off-site seo stuff it's it's not it only has so much to do with the categories unless they have the wrong category completely of course that would but who does that right so um as far as and then your description make sure you got good keywords in your description um make sure you got the city in the description uh as far as target areas when they ask you about the areas you service you can just put that exact city and that's it they're going to only give you the radius anyway so it doesn't really matter you could you could put a little but less the cities in there and it's not going to do anything so um from what i've seen at least you just just put the main city in there um and other than that there's not there's not much else to gbp as far as updating and publishing posts that's more for user uh base stuff as far as i'm concerned i haven't seen it move the needle in rankings at all um but i suggest doing it you know just in case it starts you know we don't you never know if you know google changes what it what it waits and what it doesn't um and that's that's really about it that's really about it um other than that then after that you just gotta you just gotta get reviews um period by any means necessary if you have technicians that can't get reviews you have to fire them they can't stay you know um unless you have a system on the back end where you're getting the reviews secondary you you can't keep you can't keep texts around that it can't get reviews or that are getting you negative ones that that that person has to go because that's long term you're not going to win you're done you know so yeah that's
Speaker 1you have you seen any any systems that you like on the back end for getting reviews they we talk we're talking about this earlier and you said like yeah have the technician do it but yeah maybe someone somebody's listening and they're like oh my gosh i really don't want to fire this guy like yeah yeah that i can do yeah
Speaker 2what you what you want to do is in this case there's there's obviously a lot of uh different cms's and things you can use you can you can choose that and most um most home service companies use the cms for their business already and it'll have that built in where you can send instant texts and instant emails um but you want to send them to another page first to make sure they were satisfied so you don't want to get more negative reviews either so you because you don't know what might happen on that job if you send them out immediately so you wanted to go to a page first it says you know were you satisfied with the review if they say yes it goes to the the review link and if if it says no then it comes to a page where they can send you a message you can try to you know correct that situation you know because getting avoiding a negative negative review at all costs is always necessary no matter if you got to do full refunds or whatever you have to do it's it's it's so important
Speaker 1and you when you uh when you offered a refund somebody because they gave you a bad review what what sort of language do you use how do you like how do you
Speaker 2like how do you react when somebody gives you a better phone call um well when when you're talking to him you can kind of feel it out you know it depends on the anger level and depends on the situation right so if it's if it's if it's really okay so this is
Speaker 1like you you're this is this is before uh no but i'm i'm saying like someone has already left the review oh yeah yeah and you want to see you want to refund them to get it removed
Speaker 2yeah well first you talk to them to see what was wrong to see if you can just you know convince them that you know um that it wasn't there well
Speaker 1will you just will you flat out say like if it's possible to to take that down it's really
Speaker 2yeah as somewhere in the conversation that normally comes you know what i mean um you won't even maybe use the language as far as it's going to affect my rankings or anything like that but uh you'll you'll definitely um emphasize that that it's highly important you know what i mean um but mostly you're just worried about them you're focused on them and and making sure that they're you know happy with ordeal and a lot of times normally those people become your biggest you know um because they're like wow they refunded us four thousand dollars or whatever it may have been basically they got a free free ac installation almost or whatever it may be because that's only if something really really goes wrong you know every once in a while you get a technician that just does something that's you know just just does a horrible job it just happens you know or they or they make a mistake you know so um but you just got to handle those things and and if you don't it'll bite you for sure you know um how much do
Speaker 1you think about about oh well i don't know like uh websites involvement with your google business profile you know actually i um the first time that darren shaw came on this podcast he said and he's one of the top people in in local seo and he's like he's like yeah we we looked at the log files for sites connected to a google business profile and whenever you make a change to google business profile google goes and crawls every single page any little minor change on the gbp google goes and crawls the entire
Speaker 2site yeah yeah what honestly there's there's more impact on the the page on your site when you get more reviews on your gbp than there is when you do things to your web landing page for your gbp honestly um as far as impact and ranking so say say say you're making a new gbp to another city on your site and you point it to a city page on your site if that city page that city page cannot be ranking hardly at all the second you attach a gbp to it obviously you just got the best link in the world you got google right that's the strongest link you could possibly get and then once you start adding reviews to it it could be five it could be 10 it could be 15 you you you could have been sitting at 40 or 50 you're now you're sitting in the top 10 in a lot of cases without even doing any extra links any extra internal links and anything like that it's like instantaneously you know what i mean now you gotta you gotta do the other stuff to bring it all the way up that's not gonna necessarily make you number one but i see less impact the other way around so i think that's a really good point you know i'll have i'll have pages where i have them in the top five top three top two for almost every key term that page could possibly be there for but it has like very very little to no impact on the gbp that it's attached to you know very very minor amount so it's very interesting in that way you know and like i said before we've had gbps that um weren't even attached to a web page and we're beating everybody just because we're not even attached to a web page and we're beating everybody just because we're not even attached to a web page and we're beating everybody just because they had more reviews at the time you know since since then they've been attached to a page but it was a situation where you know uh somebody else owned the site for a while and then they got mad about something and they deleted the site so it didn't have a site for a bit you know but with even without a site it was still it was still winning all three of them so yeah
Speaker 1yeah your pareto principle for local seo is reviews reviews reviews reviews like if you wanted if you want to focus on the 20 that's going to get you 80 of results for local it is yeah i you know i i um and i believe that that's the case for all businesses as well i i don't know if you if you heard this podcast that i made a few weeks ago about how like i think just the amount of companies now trying to automate customer support is the biggest mistake and they're they're like okay yeah great uh llms are so good we we have our documentation we have our knowledge base and the llm we could we could just like remove just remove as much customer support as you can and what happens like if you are if you have a well let's just start with a good product because you you want to have a good product if you have a good product a good brand and you have good customer support people are literally going to go onto the platforms that llms are using just recommending your business people will go and do parasite seo for you they will and it's not just it's not just for llms it's like if it's reddit perfect example users of reddit are going to see that llms are going to see that people will literally go like you don't have to worry about doing risky parasite seo having to try to get around reddit which is getting more sophisticated at blocking people trying to do parasite and it's not just reddit it's like all platforms people will go and do this for you if you have a good brand and good support that's like the best thing now yeah if you have a good brand and bad support people will still recommend you but it's not going to be as heavy like like it just investing good support is great but now here's where it's it's really crazy if you have a bad brand like your product is disappointing but you have the best support in the world the amount of people who leave you negative reviews is going to decrease so so so so so so much and like you said the cost of getting bad reviews removed is tremendous the cost is it really hurts you like it hurts your business and then it hurts you further to have to get these reviews removed yeah it's not cheap
Speaker 2to get them removed either the companies that charge you know if you're not able to get them removed yourself and you some of them you can't get removed at all of course they don't remove them all but uh yeah you know it's normally four hundred to a thousand dollars a piece you know um in most cases so you know you definitely don't want to get those um and and lm systems are the same way it's it's it's just reviews across the board so if you want to win in home services if you want to win in you know hvac wichita whatever whatever whatever it may be you got to have thumbtack reviews you got to have yelp reviews you got to have facebook reviews you got to have you got to have them all over the place because all the lm system doing is doing is going to search for the search the web and trying to find consensus and and how it does in home services and i've noticed in legal it's basically the same basically the same way with a little bit of extra on top you know awards and things like that those things are less important in home services i've noticed um but in home services it's just reviews across the board you know because i i know i noticed uh initially that in home services some people were ranking that you never saw on google and then you just look you just do some research and you find out oh they have 300 thumbtack reviews and 200 yelp reviews and this you know what i mean so if you only have a thousand google reviews you don't do as well on lms you start to sink to the bottom but the second you get 10 10 or 15 reviews on thumbtack and then 10 or 20 over here and 10 or 20 over there and not only do you have to get the reviews you also have to make sure that those directory listings rank on google so when the lms are searching the web to find stuff about your company you know when they do that query fan out and they you know search back and forth you know search business name reviews you need to send links to those or whatever you got to do to make sure in the top 20 top 30 all of your listings that have reviews are ranking and are there and easy to find you know um which which is how i've done really well with the law stuff is is sending links to their directory listings because a lot of times some of the ones they have reviews on like their avo or whatever it may be might get buried you know might be 30 33 or 56 and the lms aren't seeing them they're not catching them somehow so push all that to the top push what you push what you want the world to see to the top on google you know is is kind of the game you know how are
Speaker 1you how are you building links to brand directories because basically like just to like summarize for people who are trying to follow you want to have your branded directory listings which have a review each of them have good reviews on them and you want those to be on page one and so you need to yeah yeah and so you need to get those onto page but you need to get those as high as you can and so you're building links to these directory listings how are you building
Speaker 2like how are you building links um i usually use guest posts um through through sites like i copify or press whiz and whatnot um i i have manis setup uh manis manis.im which is basically to those that don't know about it's like claude co-work or uh or codex whatever they're all you know task do stuff that can carry out task ai that can carry out tasks i have it i taught it how to um examine the domains and going to use my ah ah refs uh mcp and all that stuff like that and and it examines all the domains and then it makes the whole plan for actually uh for that for that set of links uh builds all the articles does everything and does the submission process and checks back on those sites to make sure that those um that those that those that were links were put up and put up properly checking and make sure if it was supposed to be a file or not and then you can do that and then you can do that and then you can do that and then you can do that and then you can do that and then you can do that um that that's one way to do it you can also buy those like second tier packages and stuff like that it's a little safer when you're dealing with someone else's directory uh these directories are so strong they can handle any type of links you could throw anything at them really um it's kind of kind of like a parasite seo style you know but i try to get the best links possible because you don't need a ton you know you just you're trying to make it break for your band so how many people are actually getting links for my your business name with rev and reviews and things like that so it's it's it's it's it's it's using the anchor text like no one else is trying to rank for that right so it's it's not too hard to push them up a bunch
Speaker 1of people who have been using my trick where i just say like buy your the brand name pluswordreviews.com and yeah yeah yeah and yeah so i i shared this thing uh a few months ago and it's gotten really viral people are like they're showing me their results and it's getting cited in the ai overview and it's ranking number one for the brand name plus reviews and then i'm like and you could go you could actually take that a step crazier and then you could have like an executive summary site for all of your reviews where you basically just take your reviews and then you have like a you have another exact match domain it's like your brand reviews summarize or something.com i forget the modifier that you would put in that emd and basically you just base off of all you know you you really could create it's kind of funny but you actually could you could create separate sites for individual or maybe clusters of reviews like maybe you have maybe you have so many reviews that you can cluster them into different customer profiles yeah yeah and and and then you link to these with your parent site the
Speaker 2yeah yeah i'm a big fan of that i i you could make one testimonials you could make one reviews you could i also thought about i i actually saw you talking about that and it made me think about i was like well maybe you make a review site but not only do you have like reviews from one place so you'd have like you'd have like pages for your google reviews one for your facebook reviews one for your because i noticed lm sometimes will uh be behind on reviews like on facebook like they won't have the proper count and stuff like that so you make sure that they actually know what the proper count is um and whatnot so yeah you could you could have it from your each each profiles reviews could be on a different page so you know what i mean so you have a navigation for so you could see the when you do it as a i'm
Speaker 1saying to actually do it as a
Speaker 2separate website yeah that's what i mean that's what i mean like so it and it could be both like i think you mentioned it too like you could have a reviews uh everybody should have obviously a reviews page right on their on their site yeah like um but you but and if you did it on a page on your site you could even you could even do it with tabs or something like that your your uh your google reviews and your facebook reviews your yelp reviews you know stuff like that so a person or an lm could come there and quickly get it all at once because what because what you're happening
Speaker 1happening is you are putting more of what you were controlling more of your brand's narrative on page one which is where most of the information in llm is going to get and and people people i mean like the best place to bury a dead body is page two of google so yeah yeah yeah yeah
Speaker 2it might even be spot nine or ten these days yeah sometimes but yeah so yeah that that's the key i mean i it it sounds you know people want to hear the other stuff you know and any other stuff's all important you know especially like the stuff you do with compact keywords all that stuff's very important you know and you do want organic traffic and it's there um and you and you do want to make sure you have the proper keywords on a page yeah let's talk about how do you do keyword research um a lot of it uh since i only work with people that normally already have a lot of data it's different than maybe like a fresh site i don't really work on a fresh site really much anymore it's been a long time um so a couple things i like to do obviously obviously you go into search console and you figure all that stuff out but one of the main places is their ads if they're spending a lot of money on ads then you really know then you can really see everything because they rank for everything they want to right so then you see what what what keywords actually produce conversions which ones actually work for these people you know um because you can see search console and you see oh 600 impressions a day but like three clicks a month you're like and they're spot two you know like you're like so what is this really going to do even if they get to one you know so but but not saying it won't do something but then you then you go to their ads account and you could really see oh okay you know this is how many clicks they actually get for this and this is how many this is how many conversions they actually get for this um one of the tactics i do is so when i go to a page that's already built i'll take the search console query data and then i'll take the content of the page the the code from the wordpress you know what i mean i'll take the code and then i'll take take the url and i'll put that all into manus you could put that into codex you could put into and recreate the page you know what i mean with all that data and it has obviously the knowledge in place where stuff you talk about as far as the keywords with the good amount of impressions that are like ranking close and whatnot or whatever whatever your standards are for that everybody has a different idea of maybe what what's important for that page but then then it decides those things and it'll tell me all the changes it's about to make because i don't trust ai to make it normally messes up if you don't pay attention so it tries to put way too many or way too little or ignore some of the key uh elements you want in there so i have it tell me exactly what it's about to do you know but i just page after page you know search search console data the page itself you know what i mean and then now you have a fully updated page that's that's ready to go you know um but but yeah i i definitely i definitely believe what you believe in with with with with keywords and stuff like that going after And that goes back to looking at their Google ads, you know, that you see, you see the real intent and with lawyers, the lawyers I work with and stuff, these people are spending $100,000 a month, you know, at least a lot of them on Google ads so much. So there's so much data. There's so much data to see. And at first, they're always like, well, why do you want to see my ads account? You're our SEO, right? I'm like, well, I need the data. I need to see the data. Like, you don't need to, I don't need editing privileges, or I don't want to touch anything. I just, I just want data so I can export CSVs and, you know, use that. And that's it. But yeah. Have you found
Speaker 1any semantic patterns in the types of keywords that lead to conversions, where it's like, maybe you've looked at this data long enough where you can look at a keyword and be like, that's not going to convert. And you can look at another one and be like, that's going to be a valuable keyword.
Speaker 2Well, you know, there's the balance of some just have such high volume, that whether they convert well or not, they're just important. I think you had a guy in here before for injury lawyers and stuff. Yeah, car accident lawyer and things like that. You want those no matter what, even if they might convert less than best car accident lawyer service, you know what I mean? Obviously, when you start adding those exteriors, like service, and emergency and things like that, I noticed at least in home service, when you add those things in there. Those tend to convert a little better than just the keyword itself, right by itself, because those are getting searched less also probably by bots and things like that, where people are just doing keyword reports, you know, right? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1I mean, if you think about what a head keyword is, most head keywords are just, they're more informational than intent. It's people who are trying to learn.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then it's so broad, you know what I mean? It's so broad that you don't really know. You don't really know what the exact numbers really are, you know? So many people are running ranking systems more and more and more, you know, and it's, who knows how many of those are just bots searching for those keywords, so you don't, it's hard to tell until, so until you have the data, like the direct data from either their search console or their analytics or their ads, it's really hard to tell unless you've already been in that industry, of course, you know?
Speaker 1Do you prefer SEO for. Or personal injury law or home services?
Speaker 2I think it's funner to win for personal injury law because if you just win one keyword, it's worth so much money. Say how much again. Say how much again. Oh, no, you said the
Speaker 1budget, but yeah, say how much it could be worth.
Speaker 2Well, for instance, the one law firm I work for that in the first six months of this year, they've already done a hundred million. So for. For a home service company to do that, it would be, they'd have to be one of the biggest home service companies in the whole nation, you know, that, you know, I have a buddy that sold his home service company for 200 million, but he's one of the biggest garage door guys in the whole world, you know? So, but it's just like, you don't have to get that many clicks or that many leads to get them a lot of money. You know, their average ROI is like 15K plus in most cases, at least with an injury lawyer from what I've seen. So the amount of clicks you have to get them, the amount, the amount of rankings you have to get them as much lower to cause, cause excitement and to cause ROI for them, you know? So with a home service company, you have to, you have to get them ranking for so much more to get so much less.
Speaker 1Here's a cool question. What's, okay, so what's personal injury law super valuable when you get a client? What is the potential. Client, um, what's, what's the word? Uh, uh, like discovery process, like, as in like where they, maybe they find you from SEO or are they typically finding you from SEO? Yeah. And then, and then how. Either, either that or ads, ads too. So yeah, let's, let's, let's start, then let's, yeah, let's start with SEO. And so I assume that they're not going to sign, maybe they will. Do they just make a call and sign right there? Or are they going to. Or like go and look at reviews and, and like what sort of things are potential clients doing before they turn into, before they turn into clients? So that way you know how to cover the, the, the, yeah, across every, uh, every like part of intent.
Speaker 2Yeah, I, I think that's, I think that's, there's more research, obviously, um, when someone's trying to get a personal injury lawyer, then, then they're just trying to get, you know, their locks replaced. Um, so they're, they're definitely going to look on, on the internet a little more too. They're going to look around at more reviews. That's why I stress reviews, especially for personal injury lawyers. Make sure you have reviews everywhere, everywhere. Um, I, I, I see so many, it was so easy to take over an AI in that area because so many of these law groups and stuff are not paying attention to the other, the, their other sites. They get a listing on them. They, they make sure they have their listings, but they aren't actually going after reviews on those sites. And a listing with no reviews is basically worthless because it's just. It's just saying your business exists. They used to have some value with GBP, you know, it just to verify that you're an actual business. Yes. But now with the, with the AI systems and stuff, the, the reviews need to be there, you know what I mean? There has to be some, some type of value there. Um, but yeah, they, they definitely, they definitely shop around a little bit more. They definitely call more people a little bit more that, you know, um, but I'm used to that too, with like the HVAC area too. They're like that when they're getting a new system installed, that's going to make, it has possibly cost up to $10,000. $20,000, they're going to call around, you know, so you've got to have good people on the phones. You've got to have good, good people. Yeah, the client, the client journey.
Speaker 1That's, that's the term that I was looking for. So, so what, so what do they do? They find you from SEO and then what's, what's step two?
Speaker 2Um, normally, obviously they call in, they call in and then, um, from there, their case has to get evaluated because you got to figure out if they're even, you know, sometimes you get negative reviews because they think they had a case and they didn't, you know, and you never even did anything. For this client, they just thought you should have represented them and you, and you couldn't.
Speaker 1What would you do? What would you do in an incident like that where you get a negative review like that?
Speaker 2Uh, well, you just, you obviously you try to get ahold of them and let them know, like, you know, obviously we weren't trying to be rude in any, in any way. We were just, you know, letting you know that that's not either. That's not, sometimes it's not even the type of law you do. It'll be like, they didn't take my case, but like, it's a criminal case and they don't do criminal. And it's like, what are you supposed to do? You know, you can't really. It's not what you can do about that. You know, um, I don't, I don't handle that part for most of these companies, you know what I mean? I, I understand their process a little bit for it, but, but yeah, I, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's definitely a lot more difficult than just a emergency home service thing. You know, they, they definitely are a little more inquisitive, you know, they want to know more, but that's, that's why it's important to just have your stuff all set up online everywhere. It's gotta be perfect everywhere. You gotta have articles constantly going out. You gotta have, you gotta do at least three to five press releases a week. Um, so we, we put press releases out about case settlements that they get. about any press that they get any awards that they get sometimes if an award hasn't got if we haven't done a press release it on it in over six to twelve months i'll do it again i'll just send it out all over again because it's fresh um get in all these little best bite say that again if
Speaker 1if you'll send it out again if what happened if it hasn't been set out in a while so they could
Speaker 2have they could reuse the
Speaker 1same news over and oh yeah yeah over and over yeah for sure yeah because
Speaker 2it's all about being yeah it's all about being fresh and the lm might not have caught it the first time or people forgot or so other
Speaker 1people don't yeah people like you could do that people put out the same piece of content over and over again all the time oh yeah yeah yeah the same high-performing piece of content you should be doing that yeah
Speaker 2and you could phrase it differently too i always make sure like there's keywords and geo stuff in the titles of the press releases to to you know relate things and whatnot so what are you what are you using to send out press releases and then how do you do that yeah i think that's a good question i think that's a good question how do you write press releases for seo i usually use ein right now um it's been it's been the easiest one for me i also set up manus to do that for me too so um how much are you paying for a press release uh they average about 50 bucks a piece i buy them 15 at a time i think it's i think i think it's average is about 50 bucks a piece when you get like when you buy the 15 15 package or whatever so i i have to do that like twice a month normally and what's the what's the distribution um it's decent it's a hit or miss you know what i mean sometimes you get a really good law sites and sometimes it's just a bunch of a bunch of crap but you know press releases only a few are going to stay indexed right because it's all the same it's all the same i've been
Speaker 1i've been experimenting trying to get press releases to stay indexed for longer i was trying to use i was trying to use indexers on press releases and i was keeping track of how long they would stay indexed and the indexers just weren't really making a difference i think honestly the best way to keep press releases is to keep them indexed and i was keeping track of how long press releases indexes to just actually build like real links to them
Speaker 2yeah build links to them or just do a whole another one
Speaker 1yeah so now it's up
Speaker 2again yeah yeah right just put it out again you know i mean it's so
Speaker 1so yeah so that's that's interesting so you'll just you basically will just kind of you said you have ai and it's just like you have the same content with the press release going out at every interval with time like what yeah what's the
Speaker 2time interval yeah because i have it trained to a point where if if i just have an idea for a title because it knows the businesses i work on right so it it understands the the locations it understands the website url to go to to find stuff about about the business already has the information about the business in there all the awards they have currently so if if i want to do a press release i can just put the title in i do usually put more than that and i usually have an outline and whatnot but i could viably just put the title and say this is the idea for the press this is really exciting
Speaker 1for me i've been yeah i've been like yeah i've been trying to hire press release writers yeah
Speaker 2yeah and and for and for you it might be a little different too because your your your brand your brand is like a brand it's different when a brand is something people are excited about or interested in right like super interested in when you're dealing with like home service and and legal like people not many people are actually going to read no i wanted i wanted to do it i wanted
Speaker 1to do it for online reputation management just like uh just because i i i want good stuff i like reusing um like a good review for example in many different ways and james julie yeah he was he was on the podcast talking about that uh a week or two ago and him and i are the same like we you get one good review and you turn that into 50 pieces of content oh yeah and so what you're saying with just literally sending out the same exact so i want to just i want to understand you will have a press release you have the title and you have the body and you will literally send that out without changing anything basically like every three months or will you make slight
Speaker 2changes it'll it'll get rewritten okay i'll have it i'll have it rewrite it in a different way and i'll normally add things to if new awards okay so you won't send out
Speaker 1the the exact same not exactly not
Speaker 2exactly the same but it could be about the same thing so yeah or if and i'll make i'll make up reasons too like i'll this one location so we're gonna say everything's going business is going great as normal put out a
Speaker 1press release yeah yeah yeah but are you um are you personally reviewing the press releases have you are you yeah removing ai giveaways in the press releases
Speaker 2yeah so so so most of that stuff is in um is in my system already so as far as like humanizing and making sure all the weird ai stuff is not in there it already knows to it it already checks that before it puts it in but i never put a press release up and and have it distribute on its own so i don't i don't i don't have i don't have manis actually distribute i have it put it up on the press release site as a draft so i always go back in and do the final edit which is normally not much i'm just glancing over it and just making sure the right image is in there that i want attached and the right links the right the right social media links and stuff like that so so so is
Speaker 1is manis putting in m dashes is
Speaker 2it putting in no no no because it it it doubled i have i have it double checking so it'll it already knows the rules that i have in place but obviously ai ignores rules a lot yes so that's yeah yeah that's what i'm asking and sometimes it'll ignore the rules again but no it's crazy you
Speaker 1can literally say don't use an m dash and then it will say oh i'm sorry m dash won't happen again yeah
Speaker 2yeah yeah yeah no it it definitely does that especially i i do my blog posts this way too i do my blog posts in batches um and so i'll be doing a batch like say because because i look at i look at it's like i'm trying to get internal links to a set of pages right normally when i'm doing a set of blog posts because what else are they really worth in in these in these type cases like home services and stuff no one's reading the posts right they're not really that important to the public sadly but uh but they have the internal links that shoot rankings up on the pages right so uh basically it's planned for that and i'll i'll do a set and that's where it normally does the real mess up when you're doing like 40 blog posts at a time it's creating all the images for them it's doing all it but it just puts them up as drafts but i'll have multiple checks i'll say make sure you humanize it you know i have the list of things to take out and stuff it'll still leave that stuff in there you know um yeah it's super frustrating are you
Speaker 1the one going through that or
Speaker 2do you have somebody who goes through through that um it it depends on the case it's mostly me i'm very untrusted uh yeah me too it's a it's a problem because i gotta hire more people yeah it especially when it comes to too high yeah especially when it comes to a big client you know if a big client's paying me 20 000 plus a month uh i just i i don't want anything to go up without me seeing it you know what i mean because you think of things too when you when you're a seo at our level you think of things on the spot that no one else would probably even think about you're like oh but i could give an internal link to that while i'm here yeah yeah right and now actually let me let me give this some links from these two pages and i'll give you an internal link to that while i'm here yeah that's the thing it's like by by hiring
Speaker 1somebody who's not at your level you miss out you put you potentially miss out on a ton of opportunity oh yeah
Speaker 2yeah and that's i think that's why i haven't had a problem with that's also just training but
Speaker 1that's just that's also just you know you got to
Speaker 2get better training people true true true um so yeah with with the with the legal clients and stuff um i think that's why i've had so much success because i've had i've had so much success because i'm probably competing against some amateur your junior seo that's working for an agency you know most of these guys want to hire agencies because they think big agency oh they must know what they're doing they must be awesome and i'm not saying they don't know what they're doing they probably do but at the end of the day they're trying to make money they have 150 law groups that they're servicing you know they're trying to get paid the most for doing the least that's that's that's that's a business's model in a lot of cases right you know that in many cases so you know i think that's the thing i think that's the thing i think that's the thing i think that's the thing is they're going to have somebody assigned to that account and they might put in who knows two hours a week five hours a week but then they're gonna go against me and i'm putting in 25 hours a week 30 hours a week and i'm at such a higher mental seo level that there's no way you're ever they're not gonna they're not gonna beat me they're you know it's not gonna happen you know what i mean um so it's it's it's just that's what i try to stress to the to the clients that i when i try when i'm trying to get a new legal client it's like you're gonna get an actual professional seo working on your stuff every day you know i'm gonna put in time i'm gonna look at i'm gonna look at your data i'm gonna be analyzing it and yes i have people carry out tasks i have up workers you know i have people who carry out very specific tasks that i know they're good at web development i don't do really hardly any of that i have web developers for that you know of course that because that's that's time consumption you know that's that's you know um but i give them the text though i'm not trusting them to decide what h2s are on the page and things like that right so i give them the text to put into the page but i'm not sitting there developing a web page and making it look pretty you know um that's that's a lot of time right so but i i want to know exactly what's going on the page though um it's hard it's hard for me to let go of that process so but but i'm lucky i'm lucky in the fact that i don't really need to um because it like i said i work on mostly my own stuff and then the only thing i'm interested now is adding a few more a few more legal clients and i'm i'm fine when you put out a press
Speaker 1release how do you yeah so how do you how do you write it what are mistakes that people make with press
Speaker 2releases um i think i think the biggest mistake they make is they just don't do them uh the the reality of life is sometimes it's better it's better to get something done than to be perfect yeah
Speaker 1it's true right because and i
Speaker 2think that's with most seos most seos are procrastinators and they don't really get things done i've been there i know what it's like um oh wait how long how
Speaker 1long with when you put out a press release on ein newswire how long do they stay indexed for um it just
Speaker 2depends on the release i've had them i've had them stay up for for at least a year plus you know some of them just never left their stuff that's fully indexed because mostly in the legal space because some of the legal stuff gets not put on these law sites and i don't even know how it's in the network or you know i don't know what their back end is i'm not really sure obviously what ein is doing on over the next couple of years i don't even know how it's in the network or you know i don't know over there but uh they they uh some of them stick you know and and and they work but i put so many of them up i don't even pay attention honestly i just keep putting more up looking at the pricing
Speaker 1so you're buying where are you getting oh 15 number so you're so you you spend a thousand dollars is it corporate you spend a thousand dollars and you get and you get 15 press releases
Speaker 2yeah i probably spend about 3 000 a month on that at least
Speaker 1i mean dude that's that's a amazing and so so how long when you put out a press release how long does it take for it to show up for it to it should be like really fast
Speaker 2hours hours at most amazing
Speaker 1so hours and it's staying indexed for like how many you said like 6 to 12 months or more yeah
Speaker 2sometimes permanently you know what i mean it might not be ranking crazy good or something like that but it'll it'll still exist at least a few of them will survive you know like the the ones on the most authoritative sites will survive you know and then another thing that i've been doing is i've been doing a lot of key thing too is if you're if you're doing it for uh businesses that have gbps which obviously most people do um you want to put your nap information at the bottom of the press release too so don't forget that it's basically a citation kind of you know what i mean it's actually a stronger citation than most citation sites because most citation sites don't get indexed at all like at least your page your your profile except for the top 10 or 20 citation sites none of them really stay indexed unless you get reviews on them and send links to them like that they're not going to get indexed at all i run index reports on those all the time for i used to when i used to get new clients and they'd have uh it would they'd say they have all these uh listings they'd have like a hundred of them i run it through indexing check and it would have like three of them were indexed you know maybe four of them right so but it's it's a lot easier to get press releases out or or when i do guest posts i'll ask that i can put that information at the bottom too as well i know you jackie i think it was jackie chow had something like that where he was after offering that service to where he was using a pbn and putting the putting the the nap information on there and stuff like that and that that definitely did work probably still works but um you definitely want your nap information everywhere you can get it as well as a local
Speaker 1business i'm really excited by by having um by press releases and having your ai just understand everything about your business it knows all of your existing reviews reviews it understands what your business does and how your business differentiates and it yeah just has all of that stuff and then you say hey uh write a press release on this and then it basically just automatically writes it schedules it and then maybe you maybe for something like press releases you could probably and removes the ai giveaways as best as it can and then for something like press releases you that's probably something where if it has all the right information maybe then you could have uh you could have an employee go and like take a look and and just yeah yeah and just schedule it and and like you said put them out super frequently because you like just the idea of deluging like your branded you yeah your branded serps with positive news is oh yeah yeah it's awesome oh yeah it's so about it's so valuable for searchers oh yeah forever for everybody and yeah yeah yeah
Speaker 2yeah if you're like a lawyer or something like that every time you get a good settlement or anything like that put it up should be a blog post should be a press release you know what i mean to other pieces yeah so you also so
Speaker 1something you texted me you said i'm very proactive high research aggressive seo but still keep clients safe from any possibility of long-term damage what does aggressive
Speaker 2seo mean for you um aggressive is is is similar to what we do for our clients right so like if you're like a normal person like well we do a press release every month i'm like no five a week you know what i'm saying like you know um uh links i'm not scared of links i'm not scared of of getting anchor text links and and doing that i think i heard joy talking about the other day fearing of only doing four or five links a month or i i i don't let don't let someone doing that be my competition because that's that's not gonna you're not gonna you're not gonna win you just have to balance it out wait how are
Speaker 1you building talk more about how you're building the best seo content you're building the best seo content you're building the best seo content links so and why and yeah why you're getting away with building the types of links that you're building i use i
Speaker 2use a couple different ways the two main ways um i use i copify and i also use press whiz but i also do reach out to local sites so whether it be anything from sports teams local sports teams to anything i'll do searches basically for uh city names and i'll find blogs that just rank in the top 100 for a city name and then i'll just start contacting all of them and say i pay one to three one to three hundred dollars or one to five hundred dollars per post and i say the money mount right off the bat because people don't want to do anything unless they're getting paid in the most cases and and they're not going to be motivated to even respond if you don't put something like that in there um but the the biggest thing is that most people fail at is when they use a site like i copify a copify has a lot of trash sites on it a lot of horrible states that'll probably ruin your link profile right but you just got to put them through the system man you just gotta you gotta put them through the system man you just gotta you gotta put them through semrush you gotta put them through ahrefs and you gotta really analyze where they're at are they getting traffic on google i don't care about da i don't care about any of that i don't look at it at all do you rank for the keywords similar to what i want to rank for if you don't i don't i don't want to be on your site because because what's the point right and it doesn't even have to necessarily always be the exact keywords or the exact category but do you rank for something substantial not you know where's michael jackson's house at or whatever you know all those weird ones that have all the weird birth dates and whatever else they rank for to try to to try to fool that in the organic keyword count you know so you got to look into the organic keyword count but i have but i have mantis do that too man mantis goes through every site it gives me a spreadsheet of all the best ones and what keywords they all rank for you know and then we i keep that spreadsheet so when then we go to build the links it it accesses that spreadsheet again and then uses the best ones out of that batch you know
Speaker 1but if you see uh if you see that like organic traffic is slowly look slowly declining oh yeah
Speaker 2yeah declining it depends yeah that's why i'm trying i'm trying
Speaker 1to i'm trying to ask questions where there there might be nuance so you could explain like the
Speaker 2nuances yeah if if there's if there's giant drops uh i'll normally not want to use that site um but as long as they still have a substantial amount of of keywords i'm not quite as worried you know if they drop from a thousand keywords to two and now they only have like nothing and they're dead then of course that's horrible but if they had a thousand and they're still at 250 200 i mean they're not gone you know what i mean so so maybe they lost some juice right but but but they're not devoured and then and then maybe i'll just be a little less risky on that site i'll give myself a brand link or a url link i have that built into the system too it knows if a site is it knows the strongest sites put the anchor text on the weakest sites in that batch put the url and brand links on so if i'm sending out a link say i want to get an anchor text link for a page i'm going to get a brand link and a url link with it every single time so that so there's the balance is always kept at all times because ever since 2012 when i got burnt by penguin i will never get an anchor text you said penalty texting
Speaker 1me you said before the penguin update through intense exact keyword linking i once owned the number three spot on nationality making over 25 000 a month from one keyword and then you said yes you said it was taken away overnight along with the rest of our sites and keywords an entire network gone overnight i had to rebuild and transfer everything to the new domains we were mass producing pages before ai existed with wordpress plugins we created oh
Speaker 2yeah yeah yeah we did we right we ranked number three we went from number three and number four all the time and that was back when they didn't even have like local based pages ranking for the terms when you rank when you when you search something generalist generalistically like that back then sometimes they didn't even have the map pack showing you know what i mean yeah and they and they and they didn't have the specific city pages in your area showing either they just showed a national answer basically so to speak right um so yeah that keyword it was getting so much traffic it was it was it was insane you know and it it lasted for about four months and then penguin came along and just it wiped our entire network out it wiped out everything we had to we had to switch everything to dot nets everything was dot com so we had to move everything And some stuff that we just left alone and never messed with came back eventually that we didn't care about as much at the time, but we just left it because we weren't worried about it. It came back on its own. The cool thing is I have some sites that are so old that I never touch. I don't do anything with. I watch them during updates, Google updates, and they go up and they go back down and they go back up. They'll be up for like a year. They'll get like a bunch of traffic and then they'll go and they'll just disappear again. And these are sites that I just don't have no value, but I keep them there just to watch their data. It's kind of interesting to see. But yeah, so before AI, we used to use the spins, you know. Hunts and spinners. It used to take me like two weeks to make a spin because in eight hours a day, two weeks at least because we'd spin it at every single level. We'd spin the phrases and then we'd have like 20 different sentence options and then we'd have 10 different paragraph options. And then we'd have like all the lists and everything would have hundreds of different options and stuff like that. So and then we build a plug in for WordPress. We had a program, we built a plug in and it could instantly build a site with like 900 cities on it just like from one spin, right? So and this is back in 2010. So all those pages would rank like instantaneously, like we'd find a moving term or a locksmith term. And these were all like niche sites. So they'd be like instead of just locksmith, it would be like carkeyreplacement.net or whatever, you know, and and then it would develop a city page for every single city in America, every every city over a certain population, you know, using. Wait, so it was a content spinner. It was. Yeah, yeah, it was a content spinner, but also published the pages. So we built our own plug in to do that. And then I took that a step further. See how we this is how we won movers. We there used to be sites back then. I don't even remember. What half of them were called, but they were like basically PBNs and they had a crap load of sites on them and you could just basically give them a spun article and they'd put it across their network, right? Or you could give them multiple articles and they put across the network. So we had that same program or develop a system to where we could put a spin in and it would submit it to all those sites, it would submit that spin to all those sites. So I was getting like 300 direct anchor text movers links a day. So back then you could do as many of them as you wanted. It didn't it didn't it didn't matter. And and none of us really saw it coming until like about six months before things started like shifting. You could tell they were trying to do something, but you couldn't really put your thumb on it for sure. There was a lot less information out back then. You listen to Matt Cutts, right? And that was that was really about that was all that was mostly it search engine land or something. Maybe that was around, you know, blog posts.
Speaker 1What do you think? What do you think the next major like what do you think the next penguin will be? The next panda will be like David David came. David Quaid came on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he said he thinks it'll be kind of machine scale content. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's basically where like. Google's spam attention is focused right now.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think my theory is that a lot almost anything can be done if it's done with an insane amount of thought and perfection. You know what I mean? I do. I do know what you mean, and I agree
Speaker 1actually very strongly, but I think the reason I the reason I never recommend stuff like that is because I know what the average SEO and the average SEO to do it.
Speaker 2Nope, nope, nope. And they're not going to they're not going to pay some up worker to go through every single page. And to be and to be
Speaker 1fair, when you are doing that, you are literally going up against the highest paid, some of the best developers in the world who have all of the data. So you are just you are trying to outsmart Google and oh, yeah, and it's like you you might be successful for a couple of months. Like you said, you were successful for four months. You made so you made like a hundred grand and it's like, yeah, you might be success because you're twenty five thousand times four. So you might be successful. For a couple of months. But it's like, yeah, to me, the best successes that you get are when you have when you can figure out something that compounds when you can get the hockey stick growth. That's for me. That's what I care about. I'm very happy to start wildly slow where people will look at me and be like, what is he doing? And if you look at this podcast that that, you know, I've been doing this for like three years now, over three years now. Yeah. And people, people probably looked at me at the beginning. Like, what is this guy doing?
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. And the thought process is totally different on a brand like like like a brand you have is more similar to like my music side. But when I think about music and marketing music and marketing an artist, you know, I've managed a lot of artists that have produced a lot of artists. And yeah, you said you made
Speaker 1music for for exhibit for four.
Speaker 2Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For the twins. Yeah. I've brought artists out of out of nowhere. The artist futuristic. We we started out from scratch, basically, and I produced and marketed him all the way into big, big success.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, you told you told me that you said so OK, here we go. This is what it was. OK, you said, yeah, the artist futuristic that I produced and helped market is the biggest independent rapper ever out of Arizona. You said you were making four thousand dollars a month and in earnings. And then you took. Yeah. To two hundred thousand dollars a month over overnight because of, oh, a Compton music video.
Speaker 2Yeah, so so we had already had some steam, you know, we we had about two or three years under our belt. So to give a quick, quick little history, I make it fast, but I saw him out and notice his talent. Right. And then he had come to my place and I engineered him a little bit. I said, you know what, let's just let's just go half. I'll do everything for free. I'll produce everything. I'll engineer everything. I'll market everything. I had the I had the abilities to do those. Those things. So I was like, let's just do that and let's see what we can do. It was the first time I put all in on the artist. I was like, let's just let's just go for it.
Speaker 1How much money was he making at that point?
Speaker 2That was well, well, when I yeah, once we got him going.
Speaker 1Oh, so he wasn't even making when he came.
Speaker 2He wasn't making it when he came to me. Nothing, nothing. No, the one the one benefit he did come with as well. He came with a videographer. He had this videographer named Jacob Bowens, who was really, really talented. And back then, not many videographers were that good like him. He was. He was. He was a big part of our success. So, yeah, so I met I met him and then I knew he had the video guy in place, too. So that enticed me to know, OK, we could we could we have the triangle here. We can do this right. So we went really hard. We knew our audience. We knew it's the college crowd. We knew exactly who we wanted. Back then, you could get on blogs, music blogs. And if you got on the front page of a music blog for a day, it was 10,000 views on YouTube guaranteed. It was it was, you know, a different game. But we came up that way, got did features with. People from Funk Volume out, if you heard of Hopson and all those guys, but like we work with a lot of people to build them up. We got to a certain level and that got the attention of a guy who does pranks on YouTube, you know, through a mutual friend. And he used to this guy was doing pranks. He go into Compton, California, which is known for like being a gangster at place. Right. People are scared to go to you. Right. So he would he be nerd raps in Compton. He'd make these nerd raps in Compton videos. But he was a decent rapper. Right. He was OK. But when he had he invited Futuristic, he said, Do you want to do a nerd rap? Would you do a nerd raps in Compton and be the nerd? And he's like, Sure. He didn't think he didn't think Futuristic would say yes, because rappers, you know, a lot of their persona, they don't want to they want to be cool. Right. Or whatever. So but Futuristic has a different a different swag. It's not like that. You know, it's more of a fun style. So he did it and we didn't think nothing of it. We were like, Oh, it might be huge. It might not. You know, and he he he performed one of. His songs in the nerd rap video, and it just went nuts. It just it went everybody was sharing it. Every major artist was sharing it. Everybody was all over the place.
Speaker 1That's how you went from four thousand dollars a month to two hundred thousand dollars to two hundred thousand.
Speaker 2Yeah. And this is also back when iTunes was still living as well. So we were getting the digital downloads, albums, album downloads were like hundreds of album downloads a day, just all day long, you know, he ended. Up on Jimmy Fallon and all kinds of stuff. He did. He did really well. He did really well. Then we sold his catalog for two and a half million dollars to Universal. Yeah. Not going to say I got the big chunk of that because he did. He did a lot more after that, too, that that made that catalog much larger as well after our relationship, too, you know. But it's still a big win for both of us. But yeah, so it's it's a it's a tale that, you know, you can do things independently, you know what I mean? And that's why I like what you're doing. I had a buddy. Who was going live every day more for music type stuff. And I was always thought that was awesome that he did it, you know, that he was doing that. But then I saw you were doing I was like, this is even more beneficial because this is like in a world where money is actually exchanged like a lot more business and a lot more specific interest. Right. So when you get to music, it's broad interest, right? So you come and go. People are interested in you for a while, then they're not. But basically, as long as Edward keeps bringing good information, they're interested. Right. So so it's like you can keep continuing to keep and keep the interest level up. So I think it's really awesome. You know, it's really awesome.
Speaker 1what you're doing yeah well i mean i'm lucky to have very interesting guests like you on the show several times a week because like you're you are sharing very cool things what are um what are some lessons from marketing lessons from music that like you can that you maybe apply to seo marketing and branding lessons from music that you apply to seo like i i apply lots of marketing and branding lessons to the seo that i do i think it's extremely
Speaker 2important um uh maybe just a little bit of the visual stuff you know um i work in boring industries kind of so to speak when it comes to seo so it's it's a little harder to to to apply it that way honestly i applied it more the other way around
Speaker 1personal injury law can be interesting
Speaker 2true true it could it could home services yes certain ones certain ones like painting like if you want to show a time lapse on painting or a house painting i don't think i don't think
Speaker 1anybody would say that pressure washing was interesting 10 10 years ago and and and now with the sped up pressure washing videos which are like yeah are addicting on tiktok it like yeah it's like now yeah of course what well like i i could because i like i was one of the early viral video producers on youtube me and my friends were making viral videos on youtube literally like when we were like we went on some of the biggest tv shows in the in the u.s we were on good morning america we were flown out to la um like many many years ago we were flown out to la by nbc to be on the jeff probe show um i think it was nbc uh yeah by making viral videos on on youtube and um so i come from the perspective that you can make anything interesting and you can make and that's one of the reasons that i like seo because it's like you can make anything interesting and you so much too is because when you go viral with your brand the amount like i've seen people just with a new site go viral and rank for their super competitive target keyword with a new brandable domain not like an exact match domain just a completely new site new brand that nobody's ever heard of that doesn't sound like anything but they they have their keyword in the homepages page title and they go viral and they go viral and they go viral and they go viral and they go and overnight they're ranking number one for this crazy competitive keyword and yeah or you have like a some side project that goes viral and it's a it's like a satellite site and then you link that to your parent's site and like these types of things and no link building budget can buy the success that you get with like a viral linkable asset or a viral stunt no link building budget
Speaker 2can buy that oh yeah yeah because they have that you know google has all that chrome data and they they see that they see that people are coming they see the virality even of a site like you're speaking of you know they they see all that stuff um yeah you know one of the ways i used it reverse too was uh for remixes so how we'd break an artist sometimes is we would we would find out when a song's video was going to come out we would we would know okay this person said they're dropping their music video for this song on this date so we're like okay we got to make a remix right now like a remix and then we would drop it like two hours before they actually drop their music video so people are already searching yeah their fans are already searching for it and then they find us instead you know and then you know add 10 20 30 40 50 000 views in the first day you know dude i made a i made i don't
Speaker 1know if you if you heard this podcast it came out a couple days ago it was like this danish telco or something danish norwegian it was a european uh telco and yeah so for the announcement of a new apple iphone i think it's like you're not allowed to write about the iphone before it comes out or else like as a telco then like google will be very google apple will be very strict and will not allow you to sell that to sell that iphone if you're writing about it before it's released um and so uh what the the seo for this like european telco again i what what this person did is he or she had um other like partner sites writing rumors about about the new iphone about the new iphone and the iphone model right rumors yeah and then this seo is going is going to the apple announcement is sitting there live writing up what tim cook is is showing on on stage uh writing that all up publishing it and then that comes out and then immediately the rumor sites which or the the rumor pages which are ranking are all linking to this new page from the from the telco so the new page is on a high uh domain authority site already and then it's getting immediately it's getting these links from these pages that are ranking for the target keyword which is the new iphone model or just iphone yeah and so the success was by doing this and then it's getting immediately it's getting released and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model and then it's getting the new iphone model
Speaker 2but yeah you got to think outside the box you know a little bit uh with seo um especially if you're trying to compete for highly competitive keywords you know um you know the parasite seo is a very exciting fun thing um of course uh utilizing the iphone model is a very exciting thing um of course uh utilizing the iphone model is a very exciting thing um of course uh utilizing other sites power and whatnot um there's so many there's so many opportunities for that constantly you know um in local seo it's it's there but a little less there you know um because it really boils back down to what we talked about in the beginning of of this is is is your reviews and and all that stuff because if that if that's not a place everything else falls basically how i look at it is like are the reviews the only thing that are important hell no but if they're not there everything else means nothing so you could have your site perfect you could have the best links you could have everything else amazing if you only have two reviews none of that's gonna matter at all you're probably not gonna rank very good you're not gonna have much trust because google's not gonna trust your site as much anyways because the gbp is not doesn't have any real trust and so like uh it's it's very interesting how in how important that is and how unimportant some like business owners will like how they'll think about that they don't really it's even hard to get it across to them sometimes you know you know they're like they'll they'll say things like well we just we're not very good at getting reviews i'm like well you need to get good at getting reviews like you or i can't work with you there's that there's no you're not you're not i'm not gonna be able to help you win if if you can't get them you know so if if there's anything i want to drill into people's heads before i get off here in a minute is is don't slack on reviews don't and reviews everywhere now if you want to rank on ai you better get them everywhere not just one place all over the place and then like we said just also get links to those entities whatever you got to do to fill that first page with all the good stuff about you you know period you know that that's how you win i've done i've done you you could do um you can you could do research i i take manis and i have it go to all the top 10 lm models and i'll give it like 40 different keyword keywords to look at and then i'll have it analyze all of the reasons they're showing up there like find out all the citations for every single one and then it'll give me a report of all the very most important basically directories to get on um and some some of the times that i have random sites as well in that mix right but it's very easy to figure out where you need to be you know um you could just ask you could just be on chat gpt and ask you well wow how did you come to this conclusion what did you look at oh why did you look at that you know it'll it's not like google trying to hide something chat gpt will tell you why it did something you know it'll basically give you its algorithm it'll just tell you what it did and you're like oh okay cool so i need to work on work on that site right so um but yeah yeah so just just just focus on that right sites you know get your stuff everywhere don't don't be scared to to put stuff out and if you're a if you're an seo if you have a plan if you have an idea implement it just do it like people people just sit back and they don't they don't really implement those ideas they have or they don't do it to the fullest that you have to like really do it do it for a long period of time to see if it's going to work um and even if it takes a lot of boring repetitive work um because you you have it you can hand it off eventually but you have to initially do the work so you can know how it's supposed to be done right so some people skip that part and hand it off already and then the whole system is not what it was supposed to be in the first place because the system was created by someone else without your knowledge right so you have to be able to sit there and create a system um and then and then have it implemented at a high level you know so yeah you are a legend thank you for coming on thank you for listening to the show thank you for for coming on the show like this no thanks for having me man i appreciate you man I was excited to come on here, man. I'm excited to talk to you and I'll be watching you again this morning when I go get my morning coffee again. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, that's a good episode.
Speaker 1That's just put out right before this. It's with David Quaid and TJ Robertson about making self-healing AI sites.
Speaker 2Yep, I already glanced at it a little bit this morning before I came on, yeah. So yeah, big fan, man, big fan. Where should everybody find you? Honestly, I have a site called brainspikemarketing.com, especially if you're an injury lawyer, get a hold of me. Other than that, man, I'm just here for information. Like if people want to contact me, just talk, that's great. But I just came on to share what I can share and hopefully it helps somebody. And that's really all, you know. I'm in a different world, you know. Some SEOs like yourself or Matt Diggity or anybody else, you know, you guys, that's part of your, your career is to, you know, supply information to other SEOs and to other people like that and stuff. And for me, my mind is very specific to just my businesses and a very small group of clients, right? So I have little different goals as far as that end, right? In the SEO world. But I really respect what you guys are doing big time because you're giving really great information to all of us and something that didn't exist 10 years ago, basically. And it's very helpful, very helpful.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. I think my information has made businesses multiple billions of dollars because like-
Speaker 2Oh, guaranteed. Yeah, easily.
Speaker 1Not just with this, probably, maybe even in the tens because like my audience on Instagram and TikTok is crazy. And this podcast is like, and the people, and like the business owners who listen to this podcast, like there's a lot. There's a lot of people who are new, but there's a lot of people who have $100 million a year plus businesses.
Speaker 2Well, yeah, I mean, your DNA is baked into my AI system. So like your cast and then my brain and a couple other things are all shoved into Manus and it has all that information, you know what I mean? From the cast that are relevant to what I do, right? And so it's like the DNA, the DNA of your podcast is like in there. And sometimes it's funny because it'll bring up stuff. Sometimes it'll be like, hey, do you want to do this? Like we learned in this one cast? Like, yeah, let's do that. So it's, I get reminded that you're in there sometimes. So it's really cool. Really cool. Yeah, thank you Matt.
Speaker 1Yeah, for sure. All right, this is episode 1,135 of the show. 1,135 days in a row doing this podcast. Crazy. Let's go. Oh. Killing it, killing it, killing it. Oh yeah, oh yeah. If you watch us on YouTube, thank you so much for watching. If you listened on Spotify or Apple podcasts, thank you so much for listening. And I will talk to you again tomorrow. Bye now.
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