The Limits of Rainbow Capitalism

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. I Heart Radio F Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Or should accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding K. Michelle back from fighting droop. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, reality with the king, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows including the Real Housewives franchise. I'm not sure if you're watching the last season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, but you already know there's a lot to break down. Of course you're accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding K. The reality shows including the Real Housewives franchise. The drama, the alliances, and the tea everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to reality with the king on the I Heart Radio F Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning, peeps and welcome to Wokey F Daily with Meet Your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn bunker. Folks, I'm really, I don't know what the word is. It's not excited, but I'm really proud of the compilation of shows that we are putting together this Pride Month. As I'm going to restate at the beginning of each week in June, we are talking with leaders and activists and thought leaders and Hollywood folks authors to get a better picture of their thoughts around Pride around where we are with regard to progress for the LGBTQ community. And the question that I'm asking is, should we be going back to our roots as a community that was born out of resistance to violence, to struggle, to oppression, to invisibleizing us altogether? I will say that I was so fucking disgusted last week for a variety of reasons as I am with this country these days. But the Biden administration decided to hold an event where they were going to be honoring Nancy Reagan on a stamp as one of the first ladies to get a stamp. And who else was going to be at that event but was Louis, Louis DeJoy? You know, the Trump lackey who took over the postal service slowed it down so that we wouldn't be able to mail in ballots for the election. Who is Nancy Reagan? Well, she isn't just, you know, a former first lady. She was also very prominent in the war against the LGBTQ community when AIDS was our epidemic and not COVID. The Reagan administration allowed for tens of thousands, if not more, queer people in the United States to die and do nothing about it wouldn't even utter the words AIDS. It was perceived if you remember, for those of you who are old enough in the 80s to be God's excuse to how to get rid of these sinful characters. Back in the 80s, before there were investments into various drugs to allow for this diagnosis to not be a death sentence. So many people died, died in the streets, died alone in hospital rooms with not even the kindness of caretakers because of how the Reagan administration characterized gay people. It was your fault that you got HIV and AIDS. And your death was but a scarlet letter on you and on those who love you knew you so forth and so on. So for me as a black queer woman to see that this administration would think that during pride month that this would be a right move to make. Once again signals how out of touch disconnected they are look I'm not saying hey don't provide first ladies with stamps but I'm saying let it be known not in the month for the community with which that administration made a target. And it was harmed in irrevocable ways. Thank God for science. Thank God for medicine. Thank God for public pressure and those like Ryan White who would show that it wasn't just LGBTQ people that were getting HIV and AIDS. And that this was a epidemic of not just one community but what would become that of the entire nation that the Reagan administration could have stopped. But they didn't. And for me for them to decide to honor this person in our month was a slap in the face. I am so tired too and you will hear me talk with different people throughout the week about the commodification of pride. And these companies who don't who literally will fund candidates who work against our best interest fund them behind our back and then rainbow up their websites their products their merchandise all through the month of May to receive LGBTQ dollars take our money by daylight and stab us in the back at night. And the same way that we are seeing places like Walmart. Degrade what Juneteenth is to black Americans. They're putting out ice cream and bullshit t-shirts. That's not what Juneteenth is. I'm trying to appreciate the mainstreaming of pride because I felt like it was us being brought from the margins into daylight. It was all just deploy for capitalism. Because as soon as that month is over they go back to funding bad actors that look to dehumanize us through their vicious policies on a regular basis. Coming up today in our conversation and with our theme pride as a riot. We chat again with B Pagels minor who if you remember was the very outspoken former employee of Netflix who is also black and transgender and organized. Help to organize the walk out with regard to Netflix's showing of Dave Sheppell's comedy and I use that term loosely special where he attacked for what felt like an entire fucking hour the most marginalized community in this country. One that is killed well beyond our normal rate of murder. And forgotten about thrown in trash cans but he felt that oh this is the community that I'm going to make quote unquote jokes about. Well as a Netflix employee who was also one of the heads of their employee resource groups that are dedicated to both black folks and queer people. B Pagels minor took it upon themselves to organize their employees following that walk out. they were fired. And we have seen since then that not much with Netflix has changed. In fact, they have threatened their employees telling them that they will reap what they sow as it pertains to quote-unquote "wokeness." So in this conversation coming up next with B, we will talk with them about what queer employees still face. They have become a new parent during this time so we will also touch upon what it means to be a transparent and the safety of our queer kids and children in general. That conversation with B Pagels Minor as we continue to celebrate pride here on WokeF is coming up next. It's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's the BP podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca Freerantini for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week the BP brings you progressive comedians, experts and activists to break down the issues in a way that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get the BP on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher and Streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Indisputable with Dr. Rashad Ritchie is one of the latest shows on the TYT Network and also the fastest growing news show in America. On his show Dr. Ritchie plays no games regarding policy, delivering a heavy dose of fact-based truth and penetrating analysis on all the top news stories focusing on racism, criminal and social justice, politics, police brutality, parents and much more. Listeners can also expect interviews with fascinating guests, political leaders, commentators and even fiery debates with conservatives on a wide range of policy topics in the bullpen. It is an indisputable fact that you will love this show. Listen to Indisputable with Dr. Rashad Ritchie on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode. Folks, I am very excited to welcome back to WokeF Daily, B-Pagels Miner who is an investor and startup advisor and former Netflix employee. And if you remember, it was roughly, I think about a year ago, be when you joined us on WokeF to talk about your termination from Netflix following your organization of a walkout. And this was associated with Dave Chappelle's, I guess it was at that time his latest comedy special where I found nothing funny, but it was an entire special that seemed to be directed at weaponizing comedy against the trans community. And I didn't understand it. I didn't understand, you know, his format. And I was a Dave Chappelle fan. You organized at the time a walkout because according to you and the and the piece that you had written your opinion piece in Washington Post back in 2021, there was no conversation with the trans ERG. There was no even even if folks had said, oh, we just want things canceled and that couldn't happen because, you know, capitalism, there could have been, as you said, in your Washington Post piece, an opportunity to have conversation to be in community, at least to have people be heard. There hasn't been much be that has happened at Netflix in the positive from a year ago. I wanted to get your thoughts on what you have heard, what you have read and seen about their war against their quote unquote, "woke employees" and how that landed with you. Yeah, so first and foremost, thank you for having me back. You know, it was a great conversation last time and actually what really great is it's only seven months. Like, oh my god, it's such a, it's like, it feels like proper and also a short period of time ago. And it's so interesting because, you know, one of the things I definitely reflect on at this time is, you know, one of the reasons I joined Netflix was because of this idea that, you know, they welcomed disagreement and discussion. You know, the idea of really being that, you know, you write a memo, you, you know, you have a point of view and you have a conversation with people to create the best version of something. And so that's what we were really asking them and that's what employees are asking out, right? It's like, in fight us into the conversation, why would you go out and seek to build the best sports team, right? So that's the Netflix metaphor, right? It's not about family, it's not about, you know, a personal connection. It's about building the absolute best sports team. Well, the thing is, Phil Jackson asked Kobe Bryant what his opinion was on the best defense they were playing, right? You know, coaches asked their team to help them improve their team. And so what was happening Netflix then, you know, even actually before that that first, your fellow special, when I first got there in March 2020, we were having conversations about onset and how content you were in for and whether it was Transstar or if it was Black Hat, which are the two, two of the large ERGs and Netflix, whether it was those organizations just raising their hand and saying, we want to be partners to you because we feel like we can help you because that was always the conversation. It was about let's be partners. And I think that's one of the things that made me really got this wrong is that it was kind of this like Netflix employees who don't understand capitalism, for instance, you know, who are against the company. And that's not what it was. It was let's work together and create like an actual partnership because we think we can make content that's great. I'm a trans person who just had a baby. Every time I went to my doctor's appointment and those other printing ladies all me come in, they gave me the like double taken job to take. That is a comedy special right there. It's just watching a trans person going to an OBGYN in office pregnant, right? Like we understood what comedy is. Like we love to laugh. If you've ever been to, you know, a gay club or a drag show, one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, it's run cheer than Dave Chappelle has ever even thought of. Right. So being offended wasn't the whole conversation and what about being a partnership. And to your point today, I'm not, I'm frankly not very surprised. You know, some of the people who are in leadership at Netflix, you know, they, it seemed like they made a concert effort to push out a lot of those people who were really like on the edge of, you know, the company who are talking about, you know, very difficult conversations, trying to push them for trying to really develop them. You know, one of the, you know, C-suite executives is Rachel Letstone, whose husband is a very, very conservative human. And, you know, is a concerning human, right? And so it's not surprising that you have some certain people who are in power who are moving that looks further away from that general idea of having difficult conversations to create the best product, right? So it's not actually about being woke. And that's the thing that people keep being wrong about. You don't become some of the most talented people in the world who get recruited to work in one of the best companies in the world by being woke. Right. You get those jobs by having critical conversations, critical thinking, and literally being just really joining people. And that's the thing that's been necessary. Yeah, I guess, you know, where I find, there is in media and in the reporting particularly around this, it was a lack of nuance, right? Because it's so much better to say that all people wanted was Dacia Pell to be canceled, right? That's the easy way out. And what we often say, you know, within the LGBT community, within the black community is we're not trying to cancel people, trying to like have you be conscious of what it is that you were delivering and how it is landing on the communities that you were making the target or the headline of your content, right? It's how does it land? And did you have that consciousness ahead of time? And I think that, you know, particularly around comedy, it becomes really tricky. We've seen, you know, incidents over the last couple of months, really, where people have been assaulted. And I'm not talking about the Will Smith Chris Rock thing. I'm talking about, you know, at the comedy club, the guy rushing the stage, you know, I just think that we are living in more violent times, frankly, right? Where they're just there. People need to be aware that folks are really on edge. But that, to your point, what this isn't about cancel culture, right? Like what do you think that the real there there is that the LGBTQ+ community is asking for? And this is just with work outside of just Dave Chappelle just using him as kind of, you know, the intro in. But when we come up and say, X is a problem or this is a problem, what do you believe is at the core of it? Yeah, you know, I want to read up a recent example because this has been something that like all of us have been talking about because try to figure out how we feel about it. So, you know, Kenyka Margin released this new album and he has this song, "AntiStory", right? And in the song, he says the F word he misgendered. and dead names, one of his relatives. And it was so interesting because like, on one end, I had my black relatives, I had white folks, I had a whole bunch of people come to me and be like, okay, what's your opinion? Because like, first of all, this is like one of the most famous, most respected rappers, having a conversation about LGBTQ+ people. And it doesn't seem like it's being done late. And to your point about new ones, the first thing I said is, I was like, I would like to know what his auntie and his cousin says about his son. I was like, did they say it was okay for him to do that? Because the reality is, that's what we're really coming to. There's a new one to what is the larger conversation, right? And then what is a personal conversation between individuals, right? So Kendrick Lamar could have had complete, you know, authority and approval from his family, saying, it's perfectly fine to miss gender, me. And that's fine. But if he goes outside of that space and he misjitters someone else, or he dead names someone else, that's not acceptable, right? And that's really what the conversation is. The conversation is, whatever your personal feelings are, that's a one-to-one relationship. When you're talking about a larger whole community, you don't get to just make assumptions and put certain qualities on that community and have that community to say, yes. I mean, it's just like me being black. You know, if I were to have taken into my heart the media representation of black people in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, I would think that I'm supposed to be a gay member who's gonna shoot some random white lady come outside of the street, right? And I don't do that. Like no one in my family would even possibly contemplate that. Right? And so it's about this idea of, let's have actual individual conversations with people, learn who they are, so that we can be more intelligent and more respectful of them, right? And that's whether it's LGBT plus, that's whether black, that's whether it's Asian, that's whether, you know, even if it is a white lady who has more privilege than the rest of us, let's have individual conversations because that's how we end up with legislation with folks saying that, you know, you know, women can't have an abortion, right? Even though it's their right, it's their private conversation. The fact is that it starts with us but it goes to every other community, right? Like do not make assumptions about other people have actual conversations because if you do, chances are you are learning things that will really shock you, you know, and even I think, you know, even I've said multiple times. When I talk, when I listen to Dave Chappelle, especially talk about some of his investments and what he wants to do at the community, he and I have exact same opinions, like literally the same opinions, but he wouldn't know that because he hasn't decided to choose the to acknowledge the fact that I exist, that I look like LGBTQ plus person because for him there's only two worlds and that world doesn't include me. - You know, it's just so wild because I'm listening to you in a couple of things that stood out and one of which is that this all comes down to the desire to recognize that we all don't know everything, right? And so if I am really trying to be in community or I'm just trying to grow as a human being, that comes with the understanding that there is more information out there. So why would I lock myself off to that information? I think about it in the context of, you know, the push back with the Republican party and critical race theory, right? It's the desire not to want to know, right? Not to want to know anything outside of what you've always been taught. And so it is wanting to exist inside of a bubble for Dave Chappelle and others to believe that the world is binary, to believe that everything has to be either this way or this way. And it's not, right? And so if we don't, if we don't educate in the way of recognizing that we are living in shades of gray, that everything is a lot more layered than a nuance than is being presented, we don't grow. We're not gonna grow as people, and we certainly are not gonna grow as a society. You are a new parent. And when we spoke, which now I thought was seven years ago, B, it was just seven months ago. When we spoke seven months ago, you were getting ready to give birth. So first I wanna ask, how are you as a new parent, having a new human in your home? How is that going? - Well, I was talking to my aunt's visiting right now, and I was telling her last night, I was like, well, I was like, say I'm really looking forward to when he's two. And she's like, what? I was like, I think that's what I'm asleep a little bit more. (laughs) I was like, that feels like a really good target for your real type of situation. But no, it's great. Honestly, I am very tired. Like there's like a lack of sleep, but honestly, it's the coolest thing over. Like I was unsure if I was gonna be like, what kind of parent I was gonna be, but now I'm just like, I can just look at you for a few more hours. Just a few. You know, it's so great. Everything. - That's wonderful. And, you know, as a new parent who is also queer, and we are living in some of the most, the retening times I think I have ever seen in modern times, with attacks coming not just on our community, but particularly queer kids, queer youth, right? Who adults are supposed to protect and instead have turned into targets for their target practice of eight? What comes up for you? What are you feeling as you are seeing these, don't say gay bills and knowing that your child at some point will be going into school, right? And what it means for them to be acculturated into a society that doesn't want to see their parents, see their caregivers, see their community. What comes up for you as a new parent as all of this is transpiring around us? - Well, first and foremost, you know, I think that it's just like a deep responsibility that he knows the truth, right? You know, like, you know, it's crazy. The number of books that are on his shelves is like insane, right? Because I was just like, well, we have to start this library now because we have to start educating him on real truths and real facts. That's the first thing. It's like, it's a little bit terrifying to know that we have to like, so closely safeguard facts now from fiction. And then it's gonna be a personal responsibility. I honestly believe our parents do that. But the second thing is that this really feels like a parent's right issue. Like I remember, you know, especially a lot of these laws are coming through, I was like, I cannot imagine if someone told me that I couldn't do what I thought was best for my child, right? Like, you know, I'm sure my mother would do the same. Like, you know, how can you say, like, I spend all day with this kid. I know exactly what's going on with him, you know? And then how could you, if he told me, you know, in a few years or even tomorrow, if you just learned how to talk to people, you can say it and you said, you know, hey, you know, Bob, I'm trans, like, you know, I think I'm a girl. And you're gonna tell me that I somehow don't know what's best for him. And it just, it just, it boggles my mind and it goes back to this idea of like the fact conviction, right? Because like, you have so many people saying that, you know, I don't wanna wear a mask, it's my personal choice. - Yep. - But then, you know, when it comes to women's bodies, they don't have a choice. When it comes to parents and how they wanna raise their kids, they don't have a choice. And that's a really troubling pattern for me, right? Because like, ultimately, I feel as though that this comes down to individuals. Again, you know, like if you don't know what that one-on-one relationship is. And obviously, I'm not proponent, you know, whenever we talk about trends, care and transparent, what any person is really talking about, any rational person is talking about is providing those kids the necessary treatment to stop certain progress. But all of that can just be taken out pretty quickly and then can just keep going, right? I mean, for example, myself, I was on testosterone before I tried to get pregnant. So I had to go off with testosterone, give it a couple of months, and then my body just went right back into some normal cycles and then I was able to, you know, get pregnant. So, you know, whenever people are talking about this, it's gonna completely change and start, and I was like, no, it's not, I was like, I didn't literally prove that, you know, the body just goes right back to whatever it was doing before it. And so all we're really doing is creating this pathway for these kids to live, right? Because that's the thing that we're talking about. And so, you know, I can't imagine, you know, any rational human who actually loves other humans, actually, if they understood, and if they were curious, and if they were thoughtful, and if they did any research actually being against a child having the care that they needed if they understood it. And so it's terrifying, but it also is one of those things, like, you know, I had a fundraiser last week in Chicago from Hower Brown Health, so Hower Brown Health, I've been on the board there for seven and a half years. And honestly, so Hower Brown Health is the largest LGBTQ plus center in the Midwest, and potentially, you know, depending on who you talk to, the largest in the country. And what's really interesting about that is to this point, you know, obviously Chicago's already said that they will be a haven in state for people who are seeking proportion, they also will be a haven in state for people who are seeking trans care. And so what's really happening is this for Hower Brown, they've already gotten people to come all the Midwest. So you know, you have people from Iowa and Michigan who are bringing their families in there because they want to get the proper care. And so what it really does to me, though, is I've launched that fundraiser because I was saying, you know, we have one work to do, right? Yeah. And we're well-exploited. We're better organized than we've ever been. You know, we're smarter than we've ever been. I think we're tougher than we've ever been. And so we're ready for this fight, right? And so I have to start, I have to fight harder now, because now I have this kid that I want to be able to make choices. for the rest of this world. - You know, when you say that these medical interventions for trans youth provides a pathway to living, I think also that that is not the conversation that is being happened, that is happening excuse me in mainstream media, because what we've allowed, I feel like the radical right wing to be able to take hold of is quote unquote family values. Well, if you actually do care about kids, which they don't, you know, so it's not like I'm trying to change their minds, but there are people who really do not understand, right? They don't understand the community, they don't understand the feelings. And I'm saying to myself, okay, well, have you ever seen your child depressed? Has your child ever tried to attempt suicide? Has your child, you know, but like all of these different things, like you are a parent, if you're watching your child shrink into themselves, right? Because of how society is treating them, how they are being treated at school, how they're being treated in community, what parent looks, I mean, there are many because the homelessness rate for LGBTQ youth is still extraordinarily high in comparison to their straight counterparts. But it's like most parents would want to do right by their children. If I can stop your pain, if I can ease it, right? That would be the desire for me to do. And so I feel like the way that we're not having this conversation is about those trans youth, those queer kids that are in schools about how we're trying to ease their pain, right? How we're trying to ease their life and not talk about it just in terms of statistics and in terms of hormones, frankly, right? Like it's. Yeah, and there's two things I want to ask of that. So one of the guests at my fundraiser were two parents of a woman died by suicide, right? So she didn't make it to college, right? So she was a senior in high school, she was a patient in her brown health, and she died by suicide because she couldn't take it. She couldn't deal with it. And so her parents have gotten really involved in the community and are trying to, for instance, they're big donors to probably use centers, probably use center is a space that helps LGBTQ from 12 to 24, you know, GED programs, feeding them, make sure they have showers, make sure they have laundry. And they were like, you know, afterwards, they're like, this is what we feel like we can give back so no one else feels that way, right? And even myself, so when I was a teenager, I committed, I literally died for a few minutes because, you know, I decided I didn't want to live anymore. And I was brought back. And, you know, the other part of that, so it's not only just like do you want them to live, but it's also about the potential, right? I think that there's a lot of people who know me, who would say, you know, if you weren't here, I'm not sure what this, my life would look like, right? But there's a value in people that I think that people also forget. Because sometimes, you know, even when you don't see a value in someone, they touch someone else, and that person creates exponential value. So it's also about the loss as a society that we have too. And I know that sometimes they don't think that we are worth anything, right? So the fact is that you don't know. You really don't know. Like you don't know, like so for instance, most of the people I mentor are cisgender women, right, of different ethnicities, most of them are heterosexual, right? And every single one of them who become a success and gives back to their community is, you know, that checkmark for me, I've created that effect. And so that's the thing that people don't understand about this as well. It's like, you see one part of our identity, and you really focus on that part of our identity, but you don't understand how just us as whole humans create this exponential impact when we're whole too, right? So it's like, if we could just get like 10% or 20% more, right? Because we don't have to deal with some of the BS that happens, whether it's seeing a law or hearing about someone being assaulted or whatever, like imagine how much greater of an impact that we have, right? You know, like, and we already know that, right? Because LGBTQ people are the zeitgeist. Like when we do something, when we say something's cool, it is cool, right? You know, we're the one to create the movement. We create the joy, we create the heart, we create the music. And so it's like the exponential impact is so great in society. And it's like, you know, we're literally diminishing how great our society could be with the ways in which we're allowing these individuals to take away our rights and take away the humanities from these people and then taking away their lives. - Yeah, I mean, I think that the message is always that our destinies are intertwined, right? And so by people making it their crusade and their life's mission to disrupt the lives of other people, you in turn are disrupting your own life. And the opportunity for us to all actualize our greatness and what would society look like if we were all left to be able to actualize our greatness? It would be pretty superb other than what we're living in right now. - B Pagels Minor, thank you so much for making the time once again to join WokeF. We appreciate you, the conversation and hope to have you back again soon. - Thank you so much for having me. It was a great conversation as always. - Hey there, I wanna tell you about another podcast I think you'll love. The Brown Girls Guide to Politics hosted by a Shanti Goeller, the president of Amerge. BGG is the one stop shop for women of color who wanna hear and talk about the world of politics. Join a Shanti this season as she talks to incredible women of color who are changing the face of politics and tackling some of the most important issues facing the United States. From reproductive justice to voting rights to climate change and more, tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. - That is it for me today here folks on WokeF as always. Power to the people and to all the people power. 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Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. - We're sure accusing Kelly of sleeping with a Mary Man. They holding K Michelle back from fighting Drew. On the podcast, reality with the King, I Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the tea everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to reality with the King on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.