The Leadership Blueprint: Adaptability, A.I., and the Future of Leadership with Kim Tran

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of CRE with CBC Worldwide. I am your host, Josh Best, here with another in our series called The Leadership Blueprint, where we talk leading in the real estate industry, and today we are thrilled to have Kim Tran, the Senior Vice President of Learning and Development at Anywhere Real Estate. Kim is a nationally recognized leader in corporate learning, honored as the number one L&D professional of the year by Ancon Icon Awards for her innovation and impact. She leads a powerhouse team serving over 300,000 real estate professionals, driving transformative learning strategies that blend cutting-edge technology, generative AI, and human-centered design. With the PhD in credentials from Wharton and the University of Chicago, Kim brings a rare blend of academic rigor and real-world leadership to the future of real estate education. Kim, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Can you expand on that intro a little bit and tell us a little bit about your background and sort of journey to how you got here in this position? Hi, Josh. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. My career has always been centered on helping people grow and adapt through change. When I started out, my career actually in consulting and change management, so helping Fortune 100 companies be able to navigate those big transformations. It was really interesting because what I saw over and over again was that every successful change came down to one thing and that one thing was learning agility, which is the ability to stay curious, to be adaptable, and apply new skills fast, and so that realization for me really pulled me into the learning and talent space because there's, in my opinion, that's where the real change happens, knowing how to unlock people's potential is what turns strategy into action and action into results. So that's just then my life's work and super passionate about it. What drew me to anywhere specifically was what you talked about in the intro, the scale and purpose. We have this incredible opportunity and privilege to help all of our agents and brokers across our vast networks grow their businesses and build confidence. What I get really excited about is how do we actually deliver world-class learning and really introduce the power of AI into that experience. So for me, it's just been this perfect intersection of what I love most, which is driving innovation and transformation, helping folks grow and just like showing which possible through technology and AI. Yeah, that's good and I know definitely needed in our organization as we look for different ways to engage or real estate professionals at all different tiers, those folks who are brand new and just figuring it out. Those folks who have got a little bit and are looking to learn more and then those folks that are high producers that maybe have wanted but not known how to ask for the right level of learning and development in their careers. As you talk about that, that sort of change management background and people's learning agility being really impactful there, what have you found in the organizations you've worked in and with has led people to fear change or resist it? I think a big part of that, you know, I've been really privileged to work across industries and what that's really taught me is that while the context changes, I think, impactful learning and leadership always comes down to clarity, relevance and connection to business outcomes. What I think about my journey across the different industries, you know, in nonprofit and health care, I've learned how to balance precision with empathy. In tech, I learned speed and innovation in the financial services, I learned how to drive scale and measurable impact and all of those experiences were so human in nature, meaning that people, in order to get people to really accept change, embrace it and actually like drive with it, they have to feel like they have, they're part of the process that there's clear communication that they're being heard, that they're being considered, we're making these really big decisions and so I think that's where I have seen the most resistance to change, but also if you do it right, it can be really, really powerful and today I think with how AI is completely rewriting the rules of work, I believe that learning agility is the new leadership currency, right? It's our ability to learn to adapt, to evolve and the people that are able to be really successful and thrive are those who actually treat change not as a disruption, but almost as a daily workout of the mind, constantly scanning, adapting and applying new insights at speed. Yeah, in our network of commercial real estate professionals, we get sort of the bookends of that agility where some folks are super invested and early adopters of change and then at the other end we see folks that will say, I've got my tried and true way of doing things and that's the way that I'm going to do it. It's a very logic driven business. How do you talk to folks that are in that category of, I know how to do it, I'm successful doing it so I don't think I need to change? Yeah, I think just helping them understand the why behind it and also the what's in it for me, like what and how would this actually benefit me and make me better and grow my business and help me be more impactful to the people that I serve and being able to communicate that in a very real and human way, not in corporate speak or all these fancy terms and over complicated frameworks, but really just speaking to the humanity of what that impact would mean for them and what are the benefits and then being very honest and real about the risks and the implications about what the trade-offs are and I think people just really appreciate that just having the clear communication and transparency around those things. And also saying it multiple times, multiple ways, multiple channels just so that everyone in their journey towards accepting change, you have to be able to connect with them of where they're at and reinforcing the same messages over and over. Even as a leader, it's like, oh my gosh, I feel like I've said this a lot, you still need to keep going until people are really are connecting to that and then they also think just creating space for people to give feedback and having that two-way feedback loop is so critical to understand what and where people are stuck and then how to help move them along that journey. To recap, a note for our listeners here that you want to make sure and write down folks is that idea of creating space, especially for your top performers who often, they are the ones that are most, they have the most habit set in how they've been successful. And so they have the most to risk and potentially lose from any change. And so creating that space for them to be able to engage meaningfully in that change before they take the risk of changing the way that they do business can be really helpful. So, Kim, thanks for that. I want to turn back a little bit to your experience and maybe some of your personal philosophies around leadership. How would you describe your leadership style and how does that show up for you as your running teams? Yeah, Josh, I want to ask you to keep me really honest here and grounded because you get the added that a bit of, you know, spending a lot of time with me every day. But I would say that I'm known for being very direct, decisive, and pushing teams to move with urgency towards what's possible and not just what's comfortable or safe for them. And that usually shows up as a bias for speed and innovation. So I tend to challenge my teams to simplify, to experiment, to deliver impact pretty quickly because learning that takes months to build is already outdated and not useful. And it should really move at the speed of the business. And that means we cannot get, you know, stuff perfecting content. We have to prototype tests and learn in real time. And I will say, just to be very vulnerable, like the dark side of being direct and decisive is that my pace can sometimes outrun others. And so because I move fast and I'm trying to cut through all the noise and I expect a high level of momentum, but I've also learned that not everyone processes change at that speed. And I have found that when I push too hard or too fast, I can unintentionally leave people behind. And so over time, I've learned that like leadership isn't just about driving results. It's about your pacing. It's about connecting to people's purpose. And the goal is never speed for speed's sake, but bringing people long so that we can actually go fast and far together. And I've learned through many mistakes, I think trying to get it right, that sometimes the best way to speed things up is to slow down long enough to align, listen, and just let others catch the vision. And so that's the balance that, honestly, I'm still working towards every day. That bias towards action and the speed that, you know, that your internal sort of clock dictates for you. When you come into leading a group of individuals like you are here, how do you sort of assess everyone else's ability to move at your speed and then how do you flex to accommodate? Yeah, I will say I move very fast and most folks don't move at my speed and that's okay. My job in those instances is to show them what's possible and I think that's why I'm so grateful for my collective experiences across industries because I've seen it work and I have been able to design those experiences. And so just bringing those proof points, bringing the outside in from other industries, bringing best practices, having real honest conversations about where we're at in our maturity model, whether it's with AI or with like best-in-class learning experiences or understanding where the business is at and those partnerships. And so I think that that helps a lot just to show people who are very anxious or disbelieving or just like they don't know what they don't know to bring that in. But also there's a huge element of self-reflection and listening to of just taking time, you know, when I first started in this role, I spent a lot of time listening and doing my listening tours across the company and with all of the various brands and their leadership just to understand the unique challenges and the unique value propositions of each client group that we were servicing and where they're at and what they need. And so that was very humbling but it was also really great to understand, okay, this is where we're at and for me to get from A to B, this very specific things and I need to do and I can't skip steps or force people to see the art of possible if they haven't yet understood or if I haven't laid the foundation for what great looks like. That's a really important point about laying the foundation and that idea of the listening tour that you did when you first came into anywhere and hearing people. I imagine it's difficult because I have a similar bias towards action and I have struggled with it of listening to hear and understand and listening to act, where, you know, all here 20% of a story and my brain immediately goes to work on solutions and I want to implement those solutions right away. When you were first coming into this organization, how did you stay in listening to understand mode? You're right, that was extremely hard for me because my default is always to fix and go straight into like, you have a problem, I want to be helpful, I want to be able to fix it. I think, you know, my career has been about studying high performing individuals, teams and leaders and something that I've learned about those that are like at the peak and at the top of their game, they do two things really well. They are extremely clear about what they want to be known for and they have tremendous discipline to say no to the things that don't align to what they want to be known for. And so when I'm in listening mode or trying to figure out, is this something that I say yes to and add like resources and time and energy for? Or is this something that is like maybe not as important? I kind of have a couple of filters in terms of figuring that out, it's like, is this going to help the company moves in a really sizable, impactful way? Is this what our team is focused on? Or is there opportunities to either refer this to someone else or deprioritize it? So I have all of these internal checkpoints of trying to figure out how to assess all of those things. A big part of it, though, especially coming in and being a new leader, is you have to build your support system and the key advisors and key business leaders that will help me gut check. Like Kim, is this something that you should be investing time and energy and resources on? Or is this something that we can like push out? And so that's always been an ongoing conversation and, you know, having trade-off conversations about what can be done now versus later, which is always helpful. So the two concepts you brought up there, I think, are really again good for our listeners to note down is knowing who you are and what the definition of your team is and what you want to be known for. And then I love what you said about saying the strategic nose to things that aren't the highest and best use of our time right now. And that can get really tough, right? When you work with a group of individuals who are very used to saying yes to everything, introducing that concept of the strategic know, can take time to get traction, I'm sure. And that was, you know, I had to go ahead. No, even to that, I think the high-performing teams and leaders understand that no, like saying no, isn't selfish, it's actually quite strategic. And as a leader, there's this line between service and self-sacrifice. That line gets blurred really quick. And I've learned that people respect you more actually when you lead with clarity and not like constant availability or constant like saying yes to everything and kind of being an order taker. But it's like, can we do this? Yes. Should we do this? Is this our highest and best use of our talent? Probably not. And again, having those conversations and being a thought leader to our clients versus just automatically saying yes to everything that comes through our desk. Yeah. Folks, that's another one to write down. I think is that the line that Kim just said about the line between service and self-sacrifice. And I think especially in high-producing sales people who are trying to get to a yes and trying to say yes to as many things as they can, that can be a line that gets really blurry, really fast. And I've spoken with some in our network that have struggled with that line of service and self-sacrifice. It's a really important and key insight, I think. Thank you for that. That's really good. When you are planning the sort of future of L&D or working with the teams and individuals you work with the plan, you've mentioned AI a couple times in our conversation. Can you speak just broadly about what do you see as the impact of AI on learning in our current environment? Yeah. It's huge. I mean, it is, to me, the most exciting thing about being in our industry and in our field right now. But I will say with the caveat that leveraging AI or any emerging technology should always be in the service of the human experience, where AI helps us go faster and personalize at scale, but we are still in the driver's seat. We are the thought leaders, AI is our thought partners, our teammates to help us get there. And at least in the learning space, we're already using it to create so much amazing and fast and high quality learning experiences with multi-lingual content we're able to, even now, I know Josh, you're working on some really cool stuff of how do we create AI coaches and have every agent, have an AI coach in their pocket that they can help in real-time situations and get that feedback and be able to build intelligence assistance that can help agents learn in their flow of work. But I fundamentally believe that AI won't replace some critical human elements. It will just amplify it, but if we do it right, the use of technology will give us time back to focus on the things that humans are uniquely good at, building connection, relationships, creativity, judgment, so all of those things. And I think my encouragement to anyone listening, let's try to navigate their way through the use of AI or maybe even is skeptical to it, is really have to refine your relationship with AI. And I don't think of it as just another tool or another fad, it's here, and it's only going to amplify and get more integrated into our both our personal and professional lives. So you have to start thinking of it as an integral part of your life. But I know that that can be tough, and again, that's just another change curve that everybody is going on. And we do a lot in educating and upskilling our agents in their use of AI and the biggest thing that we always encourage them is just to start, start and practice and just be consistent with your practice. Because through that actual doing, you will be able to one builds your confidence and your capability with it, but then you get to explore and try new ways of doing it to better improve your business. So just start and keep trying. Keep going. Yeah, I think that's, you know, that's something we've encouraged on the commercial side of the business as well. And it is, again, we have that early adopter group and that sort of late group that is starting to come around and say, okay, I can use this for some simple task management, you know, writing emails and that kind of thing. Do you think, in your opinion, does AI clarify that line between service and self-sacrifice, or does it potentially muddy that line even more? As we become more efficient, use it for more stuff, do we commit to more things potentially? I would say having AI as your team mate to help you be able to take on more, the guidance that I have here is, as the thought leader, use the tool to focus on your highest impact, your most critical work when you think about complex strategy planning or marketing strategies or things that are really going to drive your business, having the AI as your thought partner to help think through those things faster and more creatively. And it helps you also challenge and test some of your assumptions. So you might go in thinking, like, this strategy or this plan is foolproof or it is the best plan. But then working with the AI to say, like, hey, what am I not considering? I like the risk that I'm thinking, give me alternative plans or alternative realities to where this one might not be the best one and give me some solutions around that piece. So I get really excited because if you use it right and if you use it really as a thought partner, not just like polishing your communications or an advanced Google search, then it really locks you to new take on more, but to also spend way more of your valuable time on the high impact strategy stuff, not on the administrators, like low level task. And so you have you yourself have to be able to manage that because the AI is really great at cleaning up a lot of those those things so that you can focus on the high value work, but you need to know how to have a conversation with it and how to go back and forth and be able to feed as much information about you and the context so that the AI can give you refined, very relevant outputs versus the generic ones that you find. So the folks that are able to take on a lot more, they have just cracked the code of how to use AI and have conversations back and forth or so it knows their context, their situation, their voice, their background so well that everything that it outputs, it's extremely precise to what they actually need. And that goes back to that idea of the starting point is practice right, the get get familiar with it, try it out, do stuff that might not even be work related and try some things, which I think also connects back to our our first concept that we talked about, which is how can people engage in learning more effectively and it's just by being agile, being wanting to be a learner and that kind of applies through this whole conversation. On that note, I'd like to get into a little more specifics about our business. What's got you really excited about learning and development at anywhere real estate in the next year, 18 months? Ooh, there's so much that I'm excited about. I think for me, I always think like the end result first, like what what would success look like a year from today and I think of it kind of in like three buckets that we are able to deliver intuitive, personalized, innovative learning experiences that need our learners exactly where they're at, that's mobile first, that is bite size, that is able to be consumed anywhere they're at on any device, and that it actually delivers meaningful impact. And so I think about, you know, can we get to a measurable lift in productivity and retention tied to our learning programs? I think our data today indicates yes, agents who engage in our learning see about like 92 percent retention rate, which is 12 is higher than those who don't, which is great, and let's continue to do that and continue to get better and better. The second piece is like how do we build in a faster AI enabled learning experience that we're able to deliver in hours, not months? And again, you know, we're experimenting with tons of AI tools right now that's actually giving us that type of return on investments. And then the third piece is more cultural, like so building a culture where learning isn't just an events base, like you go to this workshop, you listen to this one thing, but how do you actually build it into the daily habit of people and embed it into like how they work and how they lead and how they go about their day to day is like a huge opportunity and something that I'm really excited to build around. I think that's important, and you know, for our listeners, we'll have, we'll have both brokers and, you know, people are a lot of our broker owners will also continue to sell and continue to run the business in that way. I think that's a big shift from learning as an event to learning as an ongoing process. You know, speaking to the broad audience that we have, what's the right mindset for someone to make that shift from learning as an event to learning as an ongoing thing? Well, if we just like reflects on, like if you were to just sit down and think about your career and your journey, where do you think you've learned the most in your life? Is it in this like one workshop on this one topic or is it on the job? Is it through making mistakes? Is it through like social learning? Is it through your networks? Is it through just really having more hands-on experiences, right? And so that's this model that I'm shifting towards is away from those like events-based things to building it within people's flow of work, building it to meet them where they're at. And then be able to create safe spaces or low-risk spaces for them to actually practice those skills and get feedback in real time. And I think this is where AI and the immersive technologies that we're really experimenting with right now can be a massive unlock to that where, you know, our job is to be able to design learning experiences at scale while that experience feels very personal and a one-to-one for that particular learner. That is the huge challenge versus it being so generic, right, to do that. That, you know, that will come through I think aid of technology and some of the AI things that we were talking about, what other sort of partnerships or connections are you exploring in the learning world to assist with that, you know, learning for each individual approach to education? I think the three things that I focus a lot on is speed, quality and impact. So when I think about the core four areas that I want our team to be known for, which is elevate productivity, AI upskilling for all, you know, agent and brand value proposition and leadership development, being able to, like, when we think about speed, right, shrinking our development cycles from months to days using AI and agile design tools, having folks be able to touch them, test them, and experience them in real time and then give us feedback so that it feels hyper personalized to what they need in that moment in time, whether new to business or someone that is like a top producer, I think it's really huge. And then I think a lot about quality too, so making learning feel premium and brand aligned, not just generic, and then of course, impact, like measuring actually what matters, which is productivity retention engagement, not just the completion of rates. And I've experienced firsthand how speed and innovation can coexist with quality, like you don't have to make those trade-offs and be able to do it well. With that idea of measurement, I think that's probably one of the most common questions that we get is, is what are we doing to measure, to show the return on investment? You know, my agent's going to come to your training. We're going to spend an hour or 45 minutes, whatever, away from the revenue generating activities. What are some of the things that we're looking at to show the effectiveness and metrics that matter most to you? Yeah, I think I spoke about that of just like making sure that we have good and accurate data on participating in our learning programs actually has a sizable lift to agent retention rates. I think that's huge. And right now, we're working through, like, what does this mean for their productivity as well? So I would say those things. Yeah. And I wanted to make sure that we're reiterating some of that you spoke earlier about saying it more than once and talking through it more than once about what's important. And I do think that is, you know, it's the most common question that we hear is, well, I think too, what are we doing to get better and then how are we measuring that we got better and so I want to make sure that we're really impacting all of the folks that we work with in various ways, you know, as we come into the end of our episode here, I've got just a couple of additional questions about really your thought and approach to the business. When you are building something for the long term, like we've said 12 to 18 months is sort of like where we're aiming right now. When you look even further than that, you know, you've accomplished some of those goals, you've built a really good and strong program with the assistance of your team and the folks around you. What's after that, where do you, where do you see L&D impacting anywhere real estate long into the future? Yeah. Impact for me is always about behavior and business outcomes. So I care much less about attendance and more about whether the learning actually drives better performance, faster ramp up time, higher retention. And so I think those are the areas that we will continue to double down and really focus our efforts on being able to use data to drive productivity and engagement and sentiment and being able to connect the dots between learning and real business results and the value that we bring as a, you know, learning and development team is being able to see our agents and brokers grow their business because they have, you know, attended our learning experiences, taken on new skills, new ways of thinking, new minds that's improved in advanced their learning agility so that they can be really flexible to whatever, you know, comes up for them and be ready and confident to be advisors for their clients. And so I think our value proposition will continue to be how do we build the confidence and the skill building for them to be ready for whatever is next. And I don't think that's ever going to change. It's going to constantly be evolving. New skills will, you know, trade in and out, but just knowing or having them know that they have this access to like the top and best learning experiences and then be able to benefit and tap into that is something that's very exciting and just will continue to be a focus year over year. And I like the phrasing of that of be ready for whatever is next. It's, I think it's both open enough to, you know, keep our eyes up and looking at what's next and being having to be the experts as the learning team and the next thing that's coming down the line, but it also gives people a lot of different options of ways to engage in the learning. When you are talking to these leaders in the folks that you've been meeting with, whether it's on the listening tour or now that we're starting to advocate for some of our learning, how can a leader in a local, you know, office start to foster a culture of learning in their office? Yeah, I'm such a big believer that learning is our ultimate competitive edge. And when I think about our top producers, it's the one thing that really helps them stand out. It helps them say relevant, resilient, and again, like ready for whatever comes next. And so the leaders that can really advocate and support and create space for learning and knowledge sharing and masterminds and cultivating the peer to peer, you know, knowledge sharing and feedback. Those are the leaders that really develop and sustain high performing teams. And they're also the ones that are, they get really curious about how to use technology. They get really curious about how to better invest in learning and how to invest in their people and their culture. So I think it's, you know, I have this saying that I speak about often, which is at the end of the day, people that are learned at all and not know at all are the ones that really, really thrive through the times of change. Our markets are changing constantly at the national level, the local level. And those who stay really curious and coachable and are open to new ideas in new ways of trying things and experimenting are the ones that are just light years ahead of their competitors. And so I think our job and the learning and development spaces, how do we foster and create more learning at all so that they can make on those big challenges that's ahead of them. Folks, that's one one last key insight to write down from our episode today is the difference between a know-it-all and a learn-it-all and that learn-it-alls tend to be better prepared to be agile, to respond to change, to see the changing market and be able to do a little bit better future prediction because you can take all of these things that you've learned and apply them in multiple situations, whereas know-it-alls might be a little bit limited in their agility because I know things from the past. It doesn't mean I can apply them. So really, really good stuff, Kim, and really strong takeaways and insights for our listeners. Any last words, words of inspiration, philosophy, insight that you want to share before we close out today? Well, first, thank you for such a great conversation. This was really fun. I really appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my journey and also what's ahead for learning and development. I think anyone who's listening, my biggest encouragement is just keep experimenting, keep learning, be a learn-it-all and that's just really how I see the best and top leaders and humans just dominating in their spaces. Yeah, fantastic. Well, Kim, thank you very much for the time. We appreciate you reaching out to our network, letting them hear your philosophies and your thoughts on leadership in the future of our organization. So thanks again for being here and to our listeners, make sure you tune in every new episode and Matt's recaps of what you may have missed. We love hearing new listeners take on episodes and listen to episodes and give a feedback. So make sure you're sharing, make sure you're liking and make sure that you're promoting this within your networks. Thanks again, everybody. Have a great week.