The last real place on the internet

We've been talking about the proliferation of AI Slop on the internet for a while. Remember the time Sean got fooled by Puffer Pope? Today explained Sean Ramas for him. This past Saturday against my better judgment, I was scrolling the feeds, liking the tweets, and then I saw something glorious. Cool Pope, Papa Francis, in an epic white puffer. He's got the cross dangling over the jacket. It was AI, of course. There is a readout Reddit. Real humans talking about literally everything. Information for humans by humans jealously guarded from AI Slop by humans, except humans may be losing the battle for Reddit. The last real place on the internet, ahead from Fox. Do you hear that? That's sound, right? That means that summer's officially here. It means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon. But this summer, Mint Mobile has a better tree. Every plan, including unlimited, is $15 a month. And unlike Ice Cream, it won't trip down your wrist or look nothing like the picture. Does anyone have any cash? Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. A front payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 month plan required. $15 a month equivalent to taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial planterm only greater than 50 gigabytes me slow when network is busy. See terms. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on Why are you like this? I am talking with W. Kamal Bell and he is no stranger to creating his own lane. We dig into the wives behind some of his biggest decisions like holding space for Ted Danson to talk about his blackface scandal. Kamal's approach to dealing with trolls and what he would have changed when interviewing the KKK. We also wonder if Megan Kelly is flirting with us. Check out the latest episode of Why are you like this? Wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. You're listening to day explained. Mia Sato writes about technology for the verge, including a recent piece about Reddit trying to fend off non-human users. It started when Mia noticed something on the platform. She is very into skin care and to determine what to buy next. She often goes to Reddit to see what real people, not bots or influencers or marketers think about a product. So the skin care subreddits that I mentioned in my story are actually subreddits that I often read. Because I want unfiltered or true opinions about products before I buy them. How is this mask for dry acne prone skin? How can I get rid of my dark circles? Would I be a good candidate for micro-needling? And I go to Reddit for skin care recommendations quite a bit. And I suspected that if you are a skin care brand and you want people to be talking about your product, you will go to these subreddits because some of these subreddits get like one and a half million viewers a week. You know, they are doing crazy numbers and they have a very committed and active community. So I was like, if I were a brand and I wanted to market myself, I would probably post on Reddit. And I was curious how the moderators of these skin care subreddits were handling that. Because also marketing firms had told me like, yeah, all our clients, they really want to know how to crack Reddit. It's really hard. They want to figure out Reddit. And so I talked to a subreddit moderator who does one of the skin care subreddits. And she gave me a ton of detail about the amount of spam that they were getting. The unfortunate thing is it does me end up being more suspicious of smaller brands. Even though I would love to see more small brands out in the world. And she sent me one example, which was a thread of someone asking about a certain acne spray, like a spray that people use for acne treatment. And someone is the person who posted it, asked like, magic molecule hypochlorous acid spray. Is it really that good? Recently I have seen a lot of good reviews about this product. Any of you tried? Do you recommend? What's your take on this? And you know, it got like dozens of answers on people said. Yes, it's one of my favorites. I spray it on after I cleanse my face and go in with my toner and serums. You know, they were said, no, I've used a range of brands including Magic Molecule by the cheaper brands. They all were the same. But one of the answers was from just a random account that said, I haven't personally tried magic molecule specifically, so I can't compare. Sorry. But I have been using a similar hypochlorous acid spray from Honeydew Labs, and I've honestly really liked it. And if you are reading that comment, you probably would think nothing of it. But what you don't see, unless you click over to the profile and do some digging, is that this random account had actually over the course of, you know, several days, maybe even months, and across different skincare supplements had been recommending the same product over and over and over. And using very specific terminology, saying, One thing I've noticed when comparing products is that Honeydew Labs uses a 0.02% hypochlorous acid concentration. And it's also accepted by the National Eczema Association, which made me feel a bit more confident trying it on sensitive skin. It was very controlled messaging. And, you know, of course some moderators were like, what normal person is going to go across different subreddits and keep pushing this product for no reason? And so that is sort of one of the ways that this new type of spam on Reddit takes shape, which is brands pretending to be normal users on Reddit. And this for Reddit moderators is something what? I'm thinking they can't individually sus it out immediately or wouldn't be happening. Are they doing the search themselves to try to figure out like is everything on here real? How are they dealing with this? They have a bunch of tools, like some of them are auto moderator tools where basically a bot will look at every submission that comes through like move some things to a filtered folder where moderators can look out. But one of the funniest things that several moderators actually told me was it keeps shit lists of companies that they think have spammed them in the past. So the skincare subreddit told me about this, a weight loss subreddit moderator who I interviewed also said this. They have a running list in the background where if they think you've spammed or astroturfed their community in the past, they keep all those brands names. And now they have basically if you mentioned that brand name, your posts will automatically get filtered out. Wow, okay. And you know, the moderators are trying to send a message like if you spam us, all of the posts that even are not your spam will get filtered out. And we will take a closer look at them. So it's really like, you know, they're pretty strict with it. Some of the moderators that I spoke to said that they've really seen an increase over the last six to eight months. Maybe I can give you a couple of the numbers that Reddit has released publicly because Reddit has said also that they know that this is a growing problem. So the company said that it removes 25,000 spammy posts and comments a day. They block something like 23 million spam views. And they also tackle sort of like spam upvote. So that's, you know, a way on Reddit to sort of signal agreement. But Reddit knows that it is kind of a new era of spam. And they've said that they're using LLMs and other AI-powered moderation tools to try to catch this stuff better. Let me ask you something. And maybe it comes down to what Reddit is and always has been. But I will go on Instagram. I will go on TikTok. And my feeling is, I don't spend a ton of time on these sites. But my sense is like, half of it is just like crap that's trying to sell me something. It might not be real. It just all feels pretty garbagey to me. I feel like when you wrote this piece, you were saying there are stakes here to Reddit being the thing that must kind of stay pure, must stay away from this. What is it about Reddit that makes it important that Reddit has so far managed to resist this? I think one part is the concept of like influencers doesn't really exist on Reddit in the same way that it exists elsewhere. Yeah. And if you are an influencer, there are very few places that you can post without getting in trouble. Many, many subreddits have explicit rules saying, you may not self-promote here. And we will ban you if you do. That is a totally different environment than Instagram where sort of the expectation is that someone is selling you something. These are the wide legs, drop-ins from Alfreq, and these things are freaking wide leg. They have these nice big, non-pockets. I love these. You need to keep your face hydrated. That is what keeps wrinkles away. And that is why I love this calcium bomb stick. I cannot live without it. It is a staple now. The other part that makes Reddit. unique, I think, is that for better, for worse, and deserved or not, Reddit in the minds of people using the internet has come to sort of be associated with real opinions or real people, which is funny because the platform is anonymous, you know. Most people are using just a random username, not their full name. So it's kind of stumbled into this reputation of being filled with real helpful opinions and perspectives. And, you know, Reddit has deals with certain AI companies where they allow LLMs to be trained on their, you know, just troves of Reddit data of real people having conversations. And so I think, you know, over the last few years as Google Search feels like it's gotten worse and people have gone to places like Reddit to answer their questions, like Reddit's stock literally has skyrocketed. As being a place where you can find information where people aren't trying to sell you something all the time, or are they, right? Like that's kind of the part that I wanted to untangle. Does Reddit actually have to become overrun with marketing, fake posts, people saying, oh, you should definitely buy this skincare because they're getting paid to say that for this to be a big problem. Or does it just have to get to the point where I am suspicious that I'm not talking to an actual person on Reddit. And I start doubting the platform itself. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, personally, in the course of reporting this story, I was like, maybe I shouldn't buy things based on a recommendation from Reddit. It's a real kind of a new type of problem and a new way of looking at a platform. As it relates to sort of AI search too, I was thinking about, you know, if these chatbots love to site Reddit so much for their answers, can the AI systems detect when something is spam? Can they detect when a comment is coming from a brand or the person who left that comment, if you go to their account, they're always promoting that product. And I am not convinced that the Google's Gemini or chat GPT can suss out when something is promotional and when it isn't. Because I've written about this before and I know that they can't. So yeah, it's a strange thing where I think kind of the deception on one platform ends up trickling through other places as well. As the Reddit thread gets cited by search features and, and LLMS, have you changed your buying habits based on what you're seeing now and Reddit? I feel like I'm just way slower to buy things, you know? I'm just like, let me, keep this in my head. Let me put it on my wish list and do some research to see, you know, what other people, what real people think and also make sure that they have like a good return policy. That was the Verge's Miyasada. When we come back, AI. AI companies love Reddit, AI companies rely on Reddit. AI companies may destroy Reddit. We're gonna explain. So both of the show comes from chime, whether it's vacations, dinners, concerts, or whatever your preferred summer fun activity is. What about swimming holes, justice for swimming holes? Those expenses can add up fast. So if you're trying to get the most out of your money, chime can help. Time is changing the way people bank by offering rewarding fee-free banking. They're not like traditional old banks. 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You'll get tools like Shopify Checkout, which helps more customers finish their purchase. Because finding the customers for your product is hard enough. You want to make it easy for them to fork over their hard earned cash as possible. And when they come back, their details are already saved. One tap and they're done. With Shopify, handling the setup and checkout, you have more time for the important things, whether that's planning your next campaign, developing your newest offering, or taking a well-deserved nap. That's cute. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Excuse me. Start your free trial at Shopify.com/explained. You're listening to today explain. So Mia, in the first half of the show, we are talking about how Reddit has always felt like an important and valuable site platform because you are talking to a real human being. And there is something kind of magnificent about that. I got to say, it turns out it is not just me and you that feel this way. It is also the AI companies that recognize something magnificent is happening. What's it worth to them? Why do they care? You know, AI needs to know how people talk. Yeah. These poems are just patchwork of my life. In order to make it, right, because the models are using vast troves of information of people writing and speaking and singing. And acting. How could you say that? I thought you loved me. And, you know, appearing on video. Sigma, are you Sigma? If you are, that's a good thing because Sigma means the best. In order to create its outputs. So data of people disagreeing, of reasoning, of recommending things is incredibly, incredibly useful. And think about a platform like Reddit. You can find conversations about just about anything and between many, many different people. So that raw text is very valuable. The other thing is this is maybe getting a little into the weeds, but when you search for something, you know, you see those sort of citational links appearing in like JGPT and whatnot. Those alarms need something to point back to. And often there is something on Reddit for them to point back to. And we know from data that they love to point back to this platform. It is incredibly helpful. Maybe perhaps just because of all the different types of content that is on Reddit. There is data that was compiled for the verge for the story that I worked on that showed that in May of 2026, across several different LLM tools like JGPT and Gemini and Google's AI mode and perplexity, the number one cited domain was Reddit. They were citing Reddit more than Wikipedia. They were citing it more than the New York Times. They were citing it more than sort of repositories of scholarly articles. And that tells you something, right? Like they, that is very, very valuable for when people ask these chatbots, questions and want answers and want a link to somewhere to go look at it. Are AI companies actually paying Reddit for the information, like for the ability to look and stuck it all in? They do have licensing deals. They are paid for the data. What has been the response from Reddit users to learning that AI is training on their question about, you know, how to find a great eyelid cream? I think overall there is, at least from the moderators I've spoken to, there is a real feeling of their communities being invaded, especially with AI Slop. They feel like there are more AI-generated comments and posts on the communities and they don't like it. Many of them, you know, have very strict rules around no AI content whatsoever. We've had a flood of. AI content being posted over the last few months on this sub. As of today, we have updated the sub-reddit rules with the following. No AI. We do not allow AI-generated content or AI tools to be posted on this sub. Recommendations of AI, mentions of specific AI tools, and post primarily about AI will all be removed. I spoke to a moderator of a music sub-reddit, and he told me, like, "Yes, we have record labels secretly coming in, and pretending to be users, but the biggest threat to our community is AI-generated slop that is coming in. So I think there is, in general, a feeling of, like, we don't want to read spam comments that were written by AI. We want to read comments from real people, but, like, can we stop this flow of spam? Can we keep it a healthy, helpful community? You know, those are people who do these jobs mostly unpaid. They're volunteer moderators. So a lot is resting on their shoulders and their ability to keep things fresh and helpful." Okay, I understand AI companies sucking the data off of Reddit and, like, looking through it and being like, "Oh, when a person asks for advice on, you know, how to get to a marathon start line. This is how they're going to do it. This is how a person talks." But you're telling me that AI is also on Reddit, like, leaving messages itself. "What is the point of that?" I think a lot of them in the context of the piece I wrote is, like, AI marketing slop. So at least the moderators kind of suspect that brands are deploying botfire, basically, to promote, like, this random moisturizer or, you know, this weight loss app or whatever. It is about selling stuff. Often, yes, Reddit interestingly told me that 40% of the conversations on the platform are commercial in nature, meaning, "Huh, what should I buy?" Doing research about products, reviews about something I did buy, 40%, that is a huge amount for a place that is, like, presumably, person-to-person discussion. A lot of the conversations that are happening is about, "What should I buy?" So I found that to be incredibly fascinating and might explain some of the sort of marketing slop use cases that the subreddit moderators are seeing. Okay, so if AI is pointing to Reddit posts as, like, the definitive answers to search queries, how do I get from X to Y in the shortest amount of time possible? That seems like it's even more incentive for anybody who has something to sell you to get their name on Reddit, to try to spam Reddit threads as much as possible in order for people to be, I don't know, reading about them, or seeing people engage with them. Is that from the perspective of a marketer? Is that right? Is that what's going on? 100%. Absolutely. And part of it is, like, can we go into these popular subreddits and, like, you know, talk to users secretly or transparently? Another tactic that some brands have opted for is actually, like, spinning up their own subreddit that they run themselves. Huh! No! I would just kind of. Which I think in a lot of people's minds sort of defeats the purpose of Reddit, you know, they want to hear from unbiased sources, not from the brand that you're trying to get an opinion on, but that is certainly happening. And, you know, some marketing firms are like recommending clients to do that in order to maintain control of their message on Reddit. Okay, so this had question at the end of the day becomes. Reddit is so awesome because it is full of real humans. Increasingly, brands, companies would like to make it full of slop and advertisements. Do you think that all of this could ruin the thing that makes Reddit so useful to AI? Like, I'm imagining AI now training on other AI and marketing slop. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know that's been a concern that, you know, researchers and journalists and stuff have put forward, like, what happens when the AI is training on AI-generated content? I think beyond that, though, the content doesn't have to be AI sloped for it to be unhelpful. It can be written by a PR person somewhere, but be untrue. And that, I think, is also not valuable to people or to the tools that they use. I think what makes Reddit appealing is this idea that you get a bunch of people in a room and you can ask them any specific question and someone could have an answer for you or a perspective. But when those people get replaced with tightly controlled, carefully edited, carefully worded, marketing copy, I would just read a press release. Why would I read Reddit to get that information? You know? And so I spoke with someone at a PR firm and his perspective was like, in order to crack Reddit, you need to be really, really honest about what your brand can offer and what it can't, which sounds wonderful. I would love for that to happen. But I think that is wishful thinking and that's not what is always going on. I think what ends up really hurting the platform and all of the sort of tools that are trained on it is that when users start to lose trust in what they're reading, I spoke with a moderator of an indie music subreddit on Reddit. And what they found was they noticed that indie record labels were secretly hiding among the community and only promoting their artists when people would ask like, anyone have a music suggestion. And when you find something like that and when you tell the community that, people start to be a little on edge, you know? They start to feel like everything they read that is positive about something is secretly paid promotional content is marketing is astroturfed. And I think that is a really bad place to be as a data provider to AI companies, but also as a society generally. Like I don't want to feel like everything I read is fake, but I think a lot of people feel that way. Miyasato writes about technology for the verge. Pahadi Mawagdi produced today's show in Jolly Myers edited, Patrick Boyd and David Tadashore engineered and Gabriel Dunnettov was on fax. I'm Newell King. It's today Explained. [BLANK_AUDIO]