The Knicks Pull Off a Stunning, Historic Comeback to Win Game 4 | Group Chat

Hello and welcome to Group Chat, I am Justin Varyer, and joining me, Rob Mahoney, Jake Kyle, man. Woo! What's going on? What did we just witness? I'm still not sure, but do we want to open with like 20 to 30 on your garden before we get to the garden? We're used to substituting for Citrus as you guys, it's good talk, it's good chatter. We could, but my brain is just a replay of Go New York Go New York Go on a complete loop because I can't actually put thoughts together because we first witnessed one of the historic shooting performances in the first half and then that gave way to one of the biggest finals comebacks we've ever seen. Holy shit Rob, why don't we just go around the horn saying holy shit in different ways. Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. I think this is genuinely the most insane playoff game of my lifetime, certainly of my sentient basketball lifetime, for all the reasons you just described, like, and the mix had every chance after embarrassing themselves in the first half in front of Adam Sandler and the Heim sisters and everybody to just like pack this thing in. Well yeah, I mean, Tuesday crowd, the majority, the quorum of Heim sisters, they could have just like packed it in and played for game five and instead they took a stand and did something genuinely unthinkable with all time result. It's always crazy watching basketball history happen right in front of you, but OGN Adobe, welcome to basketball history. Yeah, I mean, that's going to be a mural somewhere in one of the burrows. I would assume just him like, you know, we can get into the details of the play. But I mean, like in this game, within this game, we saw two of the most epic meltdown crash outs that I've seen in recent memory. I mean, should we just go half by half like start because there was two crazy stories within yeah. I know. I know. Well, we start with the end and let's just start with that final play because as I was going through it, I had two pretty bold reactions. One was like, what is Jalen Brunson doing? Because he took an ISO ball play on the first possession before that and then he kind of pulls up from pretty deep. But then when I see OG kind of have a free reign to the rim, I was like, was that planned in advance that he was putting it up there in order to get the put back and having said that what where are the bodies on OG, pretty much the entire game. You're like, Oh, OGN and Obi, open again, wide open and he's just chilling shot after shot for shot. And he's just wide open, free reign to the rim in nobody boxes amount. I'm just like, how, how so many times did they blow that? Well, I'm not looking at the box score right now. I'm not convinced he has missed a three at any point of this series from the corners. It just feels as automatic as it has ever felt. But yeah, the strategic decision to not have a defender on the end bounder. You kind of understand it conceptually in a one point game, right? Like something that's this close, you want to have the extra body to kind of roam the paint. You want to maybe have some flexibility if you're going to be switching this much to opportunistically double. But good Lord, you got to put a body on that guy and in the Spurs defense, OGN and Obi just like an 100th percentile effort to sprint in and get a hand on that ball in the first place out tipping. I think it was Dylan Harper and Devon of itself who were basically there to scoop it up. If OG had been like a fraction of a second late on that play. Yeah, you got to know that in that situation, granted they'd called it, you know, there had been some loose ball fouls on the offensive glass for, you know, Carter Bryant trucking cat throughout the, you know, this game in the past game. A lot of trucking going on, but you had to kind of, they were watching the ball fly through the air, granted the play before the sequence before that Josh Hart, you know, speaks to the speed of the NBA game. The Josh Hart just, for a moment, watched a shot in the air and castles swooped in and got an offensive rebound that was, he almost converted, which would have been cataclysmic for New York, considering all the effort they put in coming back. But I thought Fox, which is kind of true, they should have just sent an onslaught to the glass and just hit somebody because I don't think they were going to call something in that situation. Yeah. You've got to have the present. And maybe they were tired. I don't know. Maybe there were a lot of mental lapses in that second half, but I thought that they would have gone to the glass harder as a, as a unit, you know, to wind it back a little bit. Was it not OG who also got the stop on deer and Fox on that leak out in transition as well? Why did, why did Fox try that of all the people to try that against that was the one? I was like, dude, you got to like pull this out. Like, maybe he thought he was going to get fouled, but I didn't like that. Yes, anyone. Like, why didn't he just pull it out and waste clock or at least force a follow a couple of seconds later? It's just like, and then that gave way to the Alvarado, just almost getting a back court violation. And we all learned like that your body can go back there, but the ball does that. That was crazy. He clearly knew the rule. Yes. If you're a small guy, I get in pressure that hard. I assume he just has that like dictionary definition in his, in his mind here. I think deer and Fox's decision making down the stretch of this game was absolutely maddening. You know, he is supposed to be the calming influence for the spurs. He's supposed to be the steady hand in these situations. They give him the ball over Castle and Harper in some of these situations. For one, it's just really clear that he's too much of a maker misjump shooter to really occupy that role for this team. Like, he doesn't have the stability to drive and finish or even really draw contact in a way that you want your lead guard to in that moment. But in this spot specifically, I mean, they get the tap out in transition. It is a crazy loose ball. I think the play ends up ending at like 11 seconds, easily could have dribbled it out and drained clock. Easily could have kind of taken the chance to like actually calm things down. And instead, I would say he makes the Drew holiday play from the Bucks championship round. Remember, Drew threw through that crazy alley up to Yannis that if he misses is an infamous play. They didn't miss. Deer and Fox does. And like, now I think this has to hang around him. Like, this game was in his hands maybe more than anybody else's and he blew it. He threw it away. I think you saw the tide shift really. I mean, I tweeted this out. I mean, the hot shooting of the first half, I think just gave them, you know, the malaise and the fog that the Knicks were wandering around in where they were trying to find the ground, find their resolve, find their composure, their will to fight back. During that time, the Spurs were playing so loose that it just got a little too loose. That sequence at the start of the third quarter where five, one of my friends that I, you know, you have your people, you kind of, I don't know if you all are this way or you all seem like you're really dialed in. I mean, I have my people, I have ongoing dialogues with during the game and I texted back, well, I texted you guys and you don't always answer. So I'm just like barking up the wrong text for entry here. Well, I've locked in, man, I can't do two things at once. Yeah. Well, I'm just kind of, but anyway. So I mean, I was texting him and I, it was pretty hilarious because I was like, man, that was a terrible shot. The champagne one. And then, and then I was like, ooh, that's two straight bad threes in row, three straight in a row, four straight in a row, five in a row and as that's going on, like the Knicks are slowly kind of like going from this like melted goo on the court at MSG and suddenly they took physical form again and they were like, wait a minute, we can, you know, I thought that was the turning point. That was the, that was when the shift happened in the game in my opinion. Yeah, I want to get into this more in detail, but we have a weirdly time break that we need to turn to right now. So why don't we? You can't do that. You can't do that. You can't me. Just take the finals. We'll be right back. This episode of the Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferreiro. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferreiro. Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling or Kebler chips deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks or Ferreiro Rocher squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold. Go all in by any two Ferreiro brands and you could win one million dollars official rules apply. Learn more at go all in and win dot com. All right. So it's kind of alluding to before the break there. The spurs despite the hot shooting in the first half for for 20 in the third quarter. Just in totality in that third quarter and then you had the late mistakes that we mentioned. Even the final play where it was Harper I believe in bounding to castle. The ball was just like like too low for him to even get a shot up from there. As much as this was a historic miraculous nicks come back and we got to give them all the credit they deserve all the credit. It kind of was the spurs melting down in a way that I've never seen. But I guess we should expect to a certain degree for a team this young and that has proven in these sort of tight situations that like the next really do have that edge there. I mean it takes two to make history like you need the historic implosion to make the historic comeback. I thought the only moments where the spurs looked like they were in control in the second half where there were a couple of Dylan Harper drives that were very direct like straight downhill he felt in control. I know we just our parodies of ourselves talking about Dylan Harper a lot of the time but bumping through OG and a no B for just like an easy turnaround. Not a normal thing and so I don't think we have to be normal about it. Those possessions I thought were good and then there were like the Wembee literally batting the ball to himself off the rim possessions that felt like he had attacked like a tangible advantage that he was flexing to get some interior scoring. Other than that they really just were chucking threes out here and it felt like as soon as the shots stopped falling not only did they not have any other plan they had kind of let go of the rope in terms of forcing any other issue that they just started settling for even more shots even more shots and not to point the finger at only Fox again but I thought he was one of the worst culprits about settling for some of those where at least the other guys it was the result of action right it's like your kicking out to an open shooter, some of those looks for the Champenny types. I thought we're at least the kind of shots that were going for them in the first half that built the lead in the first place. Instead, they just kinda ended up bearing the spurs too. - Yeah, I need to go back and rewatch it, but it did, were those off-paint touches, 'cause a few of them didn't feel like they were. - Some of them weren't. - When I was watching live where I felt like the spurs kind of forgot where the tension and release is within the way that they play. They weren't getting to the basket. And the Knicks did, I mean, they shut off the water and I just felt like they're disciplined to execute to get into the paint, has been the thing that swung the momentum in their direction to begin with in game three and then in game four, they come out and just stomp a mud hole in the first half. And then I thought they just got away from, and the Knicks, that's a credit to the Knicks that they are such a good, you know, sound defensive team schematically that they were doing a great job keeping them out of the paint. And the spurs found some ways to do that. There was one play that they kept running. I didn't know really what the name of it was, but it was like a delayed stagger where the second screen was Wim and Yama. And he would come up and instead of setting it immediately where Castle was running off of it, he would run off of the first one, have a head of steam. Wimby would come up to set the second screen and then just slip it or ghost it and he got in the paint. There was, so there were a lot of little dials that they had turned. And when they kind of just were settling for the threes, I felt like that was them getting away from the thing that had kind of given them the upper hand on the Knicks and the Knicks took advantage of it and roared back. - Very much so. - So 14 made threes in the first half. That is a record in the finals for a half. San Antonio also had 76 points in the first half. That's a record for a road team in the first half in the finals. But you guys are right. They seemed like they were just too enamored with the perimeter shot. They kept just chucking it up there. And I also felt like that spurred some of the ball movement that we'd seen the Knicks kind of thrive off of thus far. Like broken plays, giving way to like slow breaks the other way and then everyone scrambling and just seemed like the ball started to ping and the way that the Knicks have just thrived off of this entire postseason, 13-0 run and that third quarter castle has the fourth foul. I think that also opened the floodgates a little bit. But still in that fourth quarter rubbed, like it was still within reach. It was like 15 points and it just didn't feel like the Knicks were getting over that hump. I was waiting for them to go with a little bit more offensive leaning lineup. And I was ready to come on this podcast being like, "Oh man, like you can't just trade baskets when you're down this much. Like why aren't they just like trying to do more of that?" I felt like Alvarado in those sort of like lineups where they were essentially 5-out cat started playing better but like Alvarado and like being opportunistic, making shots when they were forward to him and they blitzed Brunson. Like I felt like that was the deciding factor of like taking the comeback to that next level. - Yes, I think the blitzing especially, like you just need one more ball handler on the floor in those situations. And I thought this wasn't the best Josh Hart game as far as like being that kind of pressure release. Cat had such a weird night in the early foul trouble and then just like really tentative in some other spots as well. Like he wasn't exactly the answer as that goes. I just can't, I can't wait for the continued hand ringing over the jail and Brunson hero ball experience. The hero ball that spurred the Knicks in the third quarter that forced the traps that ultimately they were playing out of down the stretch. I don't know, turns out this guy's pretty good. - Well, those last two possessions though. - Pretty, pretty dicey. I think, look you gotta dance with the one, Run Who Brunga, you know, like he got them there. I think he deserves those shots. - Josh Hart needs to buy OG a car. - Oh my god. - Literally a car. Like not dinner, not wine because those Knicks moments live forever. You wanna ask Carl, you know Patrick, you ain't about missing that float, that finger roll in the lane, that shit lives forever. And if Josh Hart's blown transition lay up that could have taken the lead, that would have been an all-time monster ball hanging out in OG setting his ass. - And losing castle on top of it on that offensive rebound. - Dude, you're right, yeah. - If you just wanna run down the last couple minutes in terms of some of the insane things that happened. One of the reasons I think Brunson deserves some of those final looks, the step up three he hit over Wembee, for me was the oh shit moment of the comeback. It's like, oh, not only is this real, this is the exact kind of crazy shot you have to hit to pull this off. You got the Josh Hart smoked lap in transition, spurs up one, Wembee goes to the line, bricks both free throws. I mean, just excruciating in retrospect. You got the castle Josh Hart play, and Fox blowing it in transition with OG saving it, and then the OG put back on top of it. I mean, it's just crazy, I'm crazy, I'm crazy, all the way down. - The cat three two was crazy, yeah. - Can we talk about Brunson though? Just toward the end there. 'Cause I hear what you're saying, where he kind of is the guy that they turned to in those moments. But it just felt like cat getting past the fall trouble and really being engaged in that fourth quarter, unlike he had been before. I think like when you hit that three, now those are his first fourth quarter points in the entire series, which is why I have to think. It just felt like things were moving in a way that fits like their personality. This is how they've rattled off so many wins this postseason. You were fine with the two Brunson late buck as the one going at Wembee late, and then the deeper three, because he was out there, he wasn't quite unloaded. Logo style, but he was there and it was quick. And so I don't know, I didn't love the two looks that they got ultimately there. - They weren't the best that Brunson manufactured. I mean, you could even see on one of them, he had to pass out of it to even reset the play in the first place. He wasn't getting the same kind of separation. He had been earlier in the game, but even so much of that good stuff they were generating, driving kick or getting it too cat to maneuver out of, was coming off of a Brunson drive in the first place in a lot of those sequences. And so I still want the ball in his hands in those moments. And I think at the way he played in this game, the way he scored, the way he balanced the attacking, but also setting other guys up, I'm good with the premise. I'm not saying the shots are completely perfect or exactly the look you want under those circumstances, but I mean, you just have to make some of those to pull off games like this. And sometimes when you're in the midst of an all time comeback, you just have to make some of these improbable shots. You just have to pull some of those rabbits out of your hat. I liked enough of what Brunson was setting up. The end result of those last two looks weren't the best. They weren't ideal. They weren't the exact shots you want even under those circumstances, but he generated so much great action for them all throughout the second half. And including some of the best stuff that cat was facilitating or the best stuff that OG ended up converting, those plays usually started with Brunson either beating a guy one on one off the dribble or passing well out of the trap to get the other nicks going in the first place. - I don't think they had any choice, but to go that direction, you know, the time that it takes for Brunson to get in, you're weighing the time that it takes Brunson to get to his spots or whether you're playing pitch and catch and then trying to get to your spot versus the fact that the nicks have just been forced to. Now, granted they have the ability to play longer in the clock than any team that the spurs have played in the playoffs this far, versus, you know, how long it takes Brunson to do this. This is a stat I'd kind of pulled up. So of the spurs opponents in the playoffs, teams that have had possessions of five passes or more, the nicks are by far producing the most. And let's see, the highest is at 1.355 points per possession. Second highest is the Thunder at 1.03. So significantly better. So I'm just saying that they weren't going to be able to play that game and play the blender game and chew up time 'cause the match just didn't work. Like so it was either they were going to have to get like 50 transition buckets, which I've ejected they might. I don't think they got 50 but are anywhere close, but I think they had to kind of take a different route to kind of make that happen. - So they had those little clips in between like coaches in the locker room and after I believe the spurs went up 12-2, Cat gets the two fouls. We could talk about the fouls and then the refs and Wembee and all that stuff. That's going to be another hour of this podcast. But there was the like inside the locker room before the game and Mike Brown's literally like, it's all about the start of the game. This is, it all comes down to how you start. You got to start fast because that's going to dictate how this goes and obviously the spurs just completely clobbered things going. Did it just seem like to you guys it was just the shots, just unbelievable, like the fouls on Cat plus the unbelievable shot making for the spurs or were they doing something in order to get out to that gigantically? - The shot making was clearly historic and unbelievable, but honestly those looks have been there for the spurs. They were there in game three. You could see in game three I thought Castle and Fox came out looking for that exact same read and we're hitting it and hitting it and hitting it, the spurs just weren't converting those open threes. And so this time they were hitting those shots. Really what a lot of it is is the way the nicks are trying to defend the pick and roll is this high tag and recover. The requires them to ease in from the weak side to clog the lane so Wembee doesn't get a free run at the rim. And so then like Devin Vicell, Julian Champany, Dylan Harper, sometimes whoever's out there, somebody's wide open on the weak side. And the spurs seem absolutely dialed in on that look over and over and over and over and over. And it was just punishing. But it was punishing in a very like a predictable way given the way that the nicks have been guarding in this series. - Yeah, I mean, it's a combination of you could really see and I was ready to come up speaking of things we were ready to talk about. I was ready to talk about how the spurs had figured out how to really stress the weak links in the chain for them whether it be Shamet or Bronson. They were putting Bronson in all kinds of-- - Yes, honestly at times mean spirited off ball screens to get Dylan Harper on him, Dylan Harper had moments where I was, again, was ready to come on here and talk about how Dwayne Wade 2.0 is upon us a bigger version. And he still is amazing that those things are still all valid, but yeah, they were doing a great job finding those. And in Game 3, you were talking about how those shots were there. I think the-- That was the difference between the balloon lead and the in the close game that we saw in game three and I just thought Do we want to talk about the cause on one hand? I was relieved I was dreading talking about the officials because it just seemed like it was going to be the thing that Just stuck the life out of the fun of this basketball game But I mean it did affect the beginning in a game at at this point like clearly would have murdered somebody Oh, yeah, one possession game and we're talking about the net golden It's getting brutal out there. Just like Lee Bryan Windhorst alone this year. Please. Yes. We're just like anybody in his birth Spurs fans. Yeah, did you think you were watching a sketch when I honestly thought it had to be a set up when Like a doughy white guy in an adidas era Tim Duncan Jersey with the wide shoulders and cargo Kackie shorts was probably walking down the street. I thought it looked like the the Larry bird bit from Blinking the John Carlo Esposito Spike Lee whatever it just look like a sketch. I was like from the right thing Yes, I was like that's the most stereotypical kick my ass dude where he might be listen to the show I'm sorry. I just thought it was like the most. I thought it was a set up at fire. So I was like that's too. Yeah, that's too Watching group chat. I was just shocked by that video. I hope that guys okay But I'm with you in the sense of like I just don't know what is real anymore. You know like that It's a false and Duncan adidas era. Why did I do it look in a world where my Christians do or guys a false flag I'm just willing to believe anything wait what I we can't even get into it. That's it. I was a plan everything is a plan to now Sorry Yeah, we can't we can't even go that far. Let's just sign it. Okay, my bagels Jewish my Mayor's Muslim my Christians Dior Nixon four. Oh The street the street poet who supposedly came up with that. I don't know I'm under the impression based on the supplementary materials and evidence that maybe that guy is a plant If I couldn't have been shocked one more time. I know I'm sorry damn No, but I think the big issue just with the refs this entire series is just the consistency if you're gonna go overboard and Not and call everything. That's that's one thing or if you're not gonna call anything That's another thing. It's just the game to game fluctuations where it's like yes Carleton he towns was hooking Wembee. He does it all the fucking time They all do it all the time. They're all Josh and they're all doing that. That's a finals physical game And like I just don't know how you could pick and choose this one Over some of the ones in the past especially coming off of what we saw in the last game with Wembee Throttling Jalen Brunson. I have to wonder like maybe they were overcorrecting at the start because of that I don't know, but just like it's been bad the refereeing has been bad thus far in the finals Yeah, they just missed a lot of stuff especially in that first half I wouldn't even go as far as to say it's like tilted in one direction or another because the nicks were still getting a lot of calls to it had a dramatic free throw advantage, but like the loop coordinate non-Golton. That was awful like that. That was just a terrible decision I Was prepared to just punt all that stuff in the trash because at the point where you're allowing the spurs to shoot 65% from the field with like zero or maybe one turnover I don't still think the officiating is having that big of an impact on the game clearly it got much closer than that clearly the nicks Will themselves into it and Mercifully they are so good in the clutch. We don't even need to worry about it from the winning and losing perspective Because I think the nicks would probably be the team with the greater grievance as far as all that stuff goes if somebody were to make the complaint about it But New York has shown if the game is close They probably will just go out and grab it and that's certainly what ended up happening Yeah, and I understand the from the perspective of if you're the nicks and you're just thinking you know because they I mean they obviously let it Effect way they were playing they lost their minds. They did. I mean they melted down cat at one point was like the the play where he was coming across the lane And just like you could see him just sort of you could tell how exasperated he was and he's just falling into people in just his arms Are going everywhere and everything like that. I was out of a rato takedown where he did in the first time So he just tried to like a judo move to try to bring him down very if I was shocked that wasn't I mean that was like intent Because I I was surprised by that that wasn't that was not a basketball play. It was around lifted his leg off the ground I thought that would have been a small guy. It's true. I'm I'm glad that that didn't didn't my kind of thing was You're right. I mean the only way for us to you know Approach this is to look at this of at look at it like this where Yes, it was super inconsistent and going back and watching the games People got mad at me early on for saying that Carl was hooking a lot of hook and a lot of grabbing which is a common strategy I asked guys a hard thing like this is this is what they do. This is what you kind of have to do You got to kind of play in the margins of in between go ahead rough not just a common strategy I would go as far as to say is Caron he sounds as had a mostly very good series that clamp is basically his signature move like he he does that specific thing all Okay Well, what I was gonna say about that is um, I think when we came into this game he I think he knew Yeah, I'm gonna get myself in the position to get this call I he knew it I they was pretty because people were like why didn't he pull his arm out blah blah blah the initial pin was there It was no different than like if somebody hits you and you just blah blah It's like why didn't you regain your balance after he put it's like the initial thing He clearly went in there with that mindset. It was it was tough And then the plot the first play of the game they drove the ball right and the other thing about this too is that like From crew to crew we've all seen this it's not consistent and and I when I was looking down the horizon I was like the Zarbacruz coming in here and this is probably what's gonna happen I thought that it was gonna favor the spurs if beginning it did but Credit to the Knicks for getting their composure back after uh because I mean for God's sake woo Tang played to silence at half time What see this lion I think this is the thing that's being revealed about when we all knew that he had some shit to him And let's just be honest a lot of the guys from Europe and France just kind of play with this sort of Let's call it an edge when it comes to like the in-between the line sort of thing if Rudy go bear is his like mentor Yeah, there's a lot of Rudy in like what when we don't you're saying there's the spirit of Nick Betoom hitting a Juan Carlos Navarro and then that's In a win that's right That's right But I mean Clearly in the beginning where he's telling Mitchell Robinson that I'm in your head It did seem like he was trying to bait him into that flagger to start the game like I think he was going in there looking to exacerbate certain things Maybe he wasn't in the park like drawing pretty pictures Maybe he was plotting out how to fuck with these guys and pull a little Reggie Miller action going on here Machiavellian wimby just like pulling puppet strings until guess what he got all tangled up in them He just lost track of it in the second half. He was then in his own head What a poet Ramahoney No, this goes to something that Tyler and I made up on a playoff pod one time Which is called the this fucking guy provision which is whenever they go back and review a flagrant If a guy is being this fucking guy It gets revoked so if they feel like a guy was kind of being you know And and wimby had a couple of those where it was like he kind of put his face in there a little bit That's the thing but it's just like I can't tell because people are getting frustrated with him drawing in the park and things like that I just I don't know that there's some I think that's just who he is like I think he's just kind of kareem weird And I don't think that there's a person like you and I in there that that is just choosing to be sort of odd or choosing to do these things That seem like I think that's just I think that's who he is But it's hard to excuse you. I mean he clearly was going in there trying to game game the game a little bit tonight I feel like he's been pulled. I agree with you. I think he is kareem weird. I think that is his personality type I think that's the sort of energy that he's bringing to most things But people almost seem to respond to him as if he is like Cardigan wearing reading Sylvia plat that the coffee shop performative male And I think that's just like a totally different phenotype that is not the energy that he's bringing That's a big cardigan I'm not 100% sure I agree with that part of it. It does feel Like he does this in a very public showy way, but he's just like a giant person in the shock of the century You would think that Justin Well, no, I've been going back and forth in this in my brain because like I would typically be super annoyed by this behavior in part like I think if anything I've been doled by it by the fact that everyone jumped to this conclusion already like I'm told he's out here going on full on diabetes. I'm basically like I can't live up to this You got to go the other way on that. Wimby gets fouled more than anybody sent shack I mean I mean yoke it's two that's the other thing and I Did we agree or disagree with that? I think it's he he gets It's absurd what people get away with doing him like the the shivers in the back like It's crazy He shouldn't fall off the handle and elbow somebody in the neck, but you know Yeah, I think it's you know, maybe it's because like who am I to judge like I'm fine Salvation in a couple cucumbers like if Wimby finds that like his mind is cleared by just doing these like silly things Like going and drawing or like reading a couple pages like who am I to judge that right? I think where I really get kind of like over where it goes a little bit overboard Is just when I think sports writers frankly are probably the ones to blame with where they connect the cause and affect where it's Wimby quieted his mind by like going and taking a bath and that's how he won game three It's just like they have you have the the anecdote floating around today where he just like walks around in barefoot In order to ground himself and then there's like the connection where it's like that's weird to begin with But it's like I don't know who cares. I'm barefooted all the time my group of Kentucky That's a true story, so nothing weird about that. Do you find yourself more grounded than the rest of us? Justin, do you want us to ask you about your cucumber? What was that little nutty drop there? No, I think we've done enough time talk for one week. I think you are right, though, JV. Like, there's a lot of bait there. And we, at sports writers, as media types, are incredibly guilty of, like, you find an interesting detail, and it must mean not just something, it must mean the thing, like the defining aspect of a player's personality or their competitive spirit or whatever it is. So, yeah, the cult of Wembee is a little out of control. Some of that is, frankly, he just puts himself out there in ways that other modern athletes, especially in the NBA, really don't. Most of these other guys are so guarded. And so, yeah, there is something about him that maybe wants you to know about the monks a little bit. Maybe wants you to see him barefoot. Maybe wants you to see him in the park sketching, whatever that may be. All of that being said, like, the subplot, as far as all this goes, that this fucking guy provision, now of the NBA finals, is we are one more flagrant away from Viktor Webanyama being suspended for one of these games. And that's an area where, if I were a Nick's fan, I would feel pretty rightly miffed about the game three should have been flagrant, shove on Jalen Brunson, that was just hand-waved away by the NBA today. I just do not see how that is an irrelevant non-flagrant play. - Yeah, and this is where, if I were the Nick's, I would just be an outrage to the league office, because, yes, once he got this flagrant in this game, I believe in the third quarter for, was it nailing Kat in the head? - In the jaw, yeah, just like an elbow straight up. - I thought Kat was concussed. Did you see the way his jaw moved? - I mean, that's a tough hit. If you've ever been hit like on the bottom of the chin in basketball, it's a sharp, really painful hit. - That's why they wear the strap, right, because of concussions in football, right? So your head, I thought that, your jaw might, maybe I missed it. - No, I think you're right. I'm talking to my helmet guy lately, but I'll double check 'em out. - Well, that's the thing about Wimbee is like, now you're in this position where, how do you control, his control is amazing. We're gonna have to see how amazing it is, because I don't think he meant anything by that play. I think his limbs are just so big. Now it's like on a closeout. Oops, my size 50 feet just kind of happened to swoop, like this is gonna be really precarious for him going forward. - So he has three now, as a result of today's flagrant, should have four based on the Brunson shove. And this is now the second time that the NBA goes to the review after the fact, don't ding him after the factor at anything to his record here. That's bullshit. Like, on the one hand, I don't want him suspended for a high stakes game, and I almost wonder if like, this only compounds the advantage, because the NBA probably knows that, and I think at the very least in the back of your mind, if you're a referee, you don't wanna throw Wimbee out of one of these games, in the future, if it comes to it. And so, it's getting really dicey really quickly. I just don't know what you'd do it about it at this point, but it is just another thing for Nick's psychofans to be able to. - Yes. - I think kind of feeding into the idea of Wimbee as the NBA's golden boy, and that's gonna make him a villain in the eyes of a lot of fans of other teams who feel wronged by these sorts of situations. It's, you're right, though. Like, we don't want Wimbee to not play. It's a better series if Wimbee plays every game, but the points are the points. And if he's racking him up enough to get suspended, he deserves to sit out one of these games. - You could understand where people would feel some conspiratorial spirit about this, because not only is he the perceived face of the NBA, but there's a lot on the line with Wimbee globally, where I think he has the first chance among, I mean, in a while, maybe since, I mean, LeBron's on this level, but I just think that the international appeal with him, where he could kind of dip into that level of it. 'Cause it's funny what's going on in America right now, if you know what followed this, where FIFA athletes are in America, and Americans are like, who, you know? That's the funny thing is going on in America right now. - Well, yeah, I wish that were the the only thing, but no, I just think that Wimbee's gonna have a chance to kind of level up. And so you could understand where you could, you know, Tim Foyle, some braille will be like, "Oh, they're trying to protect this guy." Because yeah, the chef, I don't, what's the argument? We don't have to litigate this, so what's the argument that gets the Jalen Brunson one? What's the argument that gets the elbow to Naz Reid? It's just, it's not helping this kind of, they're protecting Wimbee narrative, 'cause those are, those are glaring, yeah. - All right, why don't we take one more break, come back, talk about what could happen in game five? The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandall. It all comes down to this. Who do you think will be wearing the ring at the end of the NBA finals? Make your call with Fandall. Right now, new customers can hit the court with $350 in bonus bets guaranteed after betting $5 for seven straight days. Fandall is the best place to bet all your favorite players during the finals, bet on their baskets and boards or build a same game parlay for a chance at a bigger payout. So, we're looking ahead to game five back in San Antonio. San Antonio, as we're recording this, is favorite minus five and a half. I get it, they're gonna come out with piss and vinegar after this one, but man, I don't know how they recover from such a traumatic defeat. Give me the next plus five and a half to close it out in game five, so next plus five and a half in game five. And remember, just visit Fandall.com/RingerNBA to get started. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DC Kentucky or Wyoming, first online real money wage or only. Minimum $5 wage are required for seven consecutive days. Bonus issue does now much robber bonus best which expire seven days after receipt. Gambling problem called 1-800-Gamber. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut. So one thing we have to talk about just to kind of go through the rest of his game here. Got some interesting hockey party minutes. Didn't expect him to see him in a critical game four of the NBA finals, but that's how buyer, I think it got for a while there for the next. Well, yeah, there's dominance. And then there's a team willingly playing not only Huck Porti, but Jeremy Sohan as a part of their rotation. Like it is baffling that the Knicks pulled this thing out considering where it all started. I would say where it started truly is they came out. They were clearly trying to establish cat right from the jump as a hub for their offense, as a go-to option in their offense picks up those two fouls. I believe in the span of like basically one minute of playing time. And then from that point on you can see the cascading effects that that has for the Knicks. Cat has to leave incomes Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson plays, I believe, five minutes. And he looks like he's about to pass out. So they have to take him out and put Huck Porti in. Then even later in the game, because of Cat's foul trouble, the Spurs start while they are up 25, intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson, so that the Knicks have to take him out and put Huck Porti back in because they can't put Cat back in. So all of these trade-offs were just like happening. And then we're sitting there wondering why the Spurs are up 25, 27, 29 points. A lot of it just starts with they were cut off at the knees in terms of Cat's foul trouble from the very beginning. And I don't know in the first half that they ever really recovered from it until they got the hard reset at halftime. Yeah, I understand coming out and trying to say like, all right, we're going to try to establish-- I don't know-- if you're approaching it like a box or almost like I'm trying to establish this finishing move, which I think for the Knicks is throughout the course of the game, you kind of the bodywork, I think, is the movement that comes through playing through Cat, which gets everybody involved. I think it's way more of like we're finding closeouts. We're getting-- that's what gets them into that blender, I think, is starting through him because you have a little bit more.5 stuff with him. But I kind of wondered if they had moved one of the ailments that could lure the Knicks into the troubles of the past and the stagnation for them offensively is this is a conspiracy theory that I have about the Knicks. I almost wonder if it's like, when Yannes makes a three in the first quarter and on the one hand, you'd be like, damn it, oh, man, it's not our night. But if I'm the opposing coach, I'm thinking he's going to take more of this. He's going to take three more of these. So this is going to-- oh no, you know, it's the fake it. He hit a tough shot in the first quarter of last game where it was sort of like a reverse pivot, a crazy shot, high glass overcastle that went in. And I made a mental note of it. I was like, I wonder if Brunson tasted the shot making honey a little early because he over pursued it to the rest of the game. So you come into it, you're trying to set up this flow of the game and it just got thrown wildly off by the way the game started with Kat. Yeah. Is that crazy? Do you think that's possible? I think it's definitely possible. And also within this whole like foul trouble subplot, I think one of the better uses of a challenge we've seen at any point in the playoffs as far as the clamping play that we addressed earlier, my normal policy is if you're not resulting in like the actual exchange of points, and this one would have because Kat was gonna be going to the free-through line regardless, you shouldn't challenge. If it's this early, you should be very careful about it. And really the only alternative is very, very late in the game. If there was a change of possession that could swing the result, then yes, you should absolutely investigate it. But that was a play that clearly there was the proximal clamping foul that ended up getting reversed and getting Kat his second foul and out of the game. But if it had gone slightly differently, then the spurs are just without a challenge or 47 minutes of this game. - Yeah, there was that 105 into the game. It was one that challenged that. I had the same thought. I was like, it happened. I was like, what, like, what are we doing this so quickly for? - A hugely high stakes play, a minute in. - 'Cause if you get Kat out of there, that's what I'm saying. If you lose the ability to have that counter punch throughout the game, you know. I just feel like a big takeaway from this game is the fact that we always talk about the teams like the spurs or just young teams, We always measure a team's competence and stability based on how they respond to adversity. And I think it's just as important to measure how a team responds to success. Because I think in the spurred success tonight, they lost focus and it ended up really, really burning them. Well, I think that's the big question going into this next game is can a team overcome such like a colossal failure like this? And this one just, I mean, considering all the stakes, all the emotional tensions that are already rising going into this game clearly, we talked about when we kind of feeding into those and to come out on the other side and to do it in such kind of an embarrassing fashion, just really probably hurts. I don't know, like is it possible to even come through this and like find any sort of silver lining to take with you or is this the type of game you just flush and just like decide like, well, we'll just start fresh from the next one. I don't know how much silver lining there is about a 30 point second half in which all of your limitations are laid bare and everything that was working for you has suddenly been turned against you. And that's the part that really would stick with me. If I were a member of the Spurs or their coaching staff, it's just how easily the team was kind of duped into chasing the three after three after three fallacy that we mentioned earlier. This isn't a team that really plays that way. Like they are not a volume, no shooting team by type. They have all sorts of other avenues into their office. You've seen it all throughout the playoffs, and here they were just like chasing after this one like home run shot over and over and over and over, just because they had the success that they had in the first half. Kyle, I think you're spot on about that, about the way that we evaluate young teams and what we put value in as far as their ability to respond to challenges. But it is a challenge in its own way to be up this much. It's a challenge to like think about 24 minutes against a really skilled, capable, adaptive opponent. And you have to maintain the focus, or else they're going to cut it. They're going to cut the lead to 17 and then to 13 and then to 9. And then you're back footed, you're on the ropes. And what are you doing? We just have seen enough of the Spurs offense in the series to know that they don't have the precision to bail themselves out when they're against like the full brunt of a comeback like what New York did tonight. Yeah. You said insult to injury, and I think that's a really good kind of microcosm of what went on here where the Spurs just need to realize that the injury is them getting in the goddamn paint and scoring at the rim. The insult is the extra stuff is them shooting the threes. That's like if we're making them we get up huge on you, but otherwise we get to stick with our bread and butter. And I just feel like over all the Spurs just, we've kind of lauded, I've gone back and forth. I've gone back and forth with them where I'm like, man, it seems like they don't, they've got a lot of different guys who are auditioning or maybe someday they're going to be the primary option for this team. And then we'll have these moments where they go up 30 where I'll be like, well, maybe that's their superlative is that it's not just one guy. It's their cobbling it together like a unit and it's coming from everywhere. And then when the feet start getting to the fire, you see like, no, they don't have a Jalen Brunson guy who like time and time again can steady the ship and go get his own. So that's kind of where I laid it because there were moments in this game where I was just like, man, Dylan Harper, is this, is he claiming that belt right now, but he's clearly just not ready to do that? That's where I wonder where the environment shift probably couldn't have happened at a better time. On the one hand, I think it's easy to just read into the fact that MSG is rocking and just to describe a lot of what happened tonight to that. On the other hand, when you hear Mike bring being like, I'd never been this loud or has never been this crazy and like the screen is literally shaking, I do have to wonder. There's like a pretty nice anecdote, I believe from game three, where Dylan Harper, I think he was talking to ESPN, Scott Fempel afterward and he was like, oh, I was walking through the tunnel and I saw Jay-Z and I was like, oh shit, that's Jay-Z and he's like, did you say anything? And he's like, nah, I didn't, I didn't want to like embarrass myself. It's like that sort of thing at MSG must be pretty darn, you're not only in this giant moment, but then like you look across the stands, like it's so replete with like everyone from your childhood and all the biggest celebrities that you know, you have fucking Taylor Swift with the Himesisters and Mariska Hargitday all wearing stupid punch shirts. It's just like that really does have to compound what is already happening there. I'm not going to say like that that led to what happened in the actual game, but like if you're already rattled and young and not like ready for the moment, that has to like really kind of add to the everything going on through your head. There's a lot happening there. I mean, there are times. You're trying to process the puns? How many copy editors in New York, we're going to blame the game on the puns, I don't know. Well, the copy editor has been, I don't know, I guess it depends, but yeah, somewhat the finger was going to be pointed at somebody and it was probably going to be Taylor Swift. That's just how the universe seems to work with this stuff, but she and Nick's fan, it was I don't know where this is now. I think she lives in the general area. Well, plus she's getting married, it has been announced at Madison Square Garden or reported. So I assume this is just like preamble to the ceremony. Oh, the vibes were horrible too, because the whole Dolan Trump thing and then the Dolan, like Dolan was, I took texture off this for the game, that Dolan was doing everything that he could to ruin the ever increasing positive vibes in New York, trying to snatch, you know, damnation from the jaws of salvation, yeah. I know, yeah. No, it's the Dolan Trump thing, but also the Dolan Mamdani thing, whereas like the whole watch party situation, they were canceled because they weren't getting the approvals that they wanted. What I was saying that Taylor Swift cleansed the aura of what could have been a curse inflicted by Dolan's last Trump. I think she might have, it's just like there were enough puns that the wordplay just washed out whatever funk was in the building. I gotta say. Punswish and sweat, spit, yeah. This might just get me just completely, like, docks or saying this. Taylor Swift, terrible hang, how do you know? It seems like a lot, like, I don't know. There's didn't seem like a lot of performative, like, celebrating there. Yeah, I mean, given how anti-performative you are, like Taylor Swift is about as performative as it gets, like that's called brand. A couple celebrity things that I noticed that I enjoyed a lot was when they went to Larry David during the break and he was like, oh, and then he was like, go away, shoot him, like, you could tell it was really Larry David. He gets to be himself in a really awesome way. And then when everybody was celebrating in like hugging and grabbing, Jerry Seinfeld was like telling people not to touch him, he was like, I don't, I'm not doing that. Like, it was a pretty funny almost, I don't know if he's a germophobe or something, but and Xiaomi wore a normal outfit. Maybe that was good for him. Sometimes you gotta do it. It was like a crumb heart, it's like, million dollar normal outfit. Well, for him, that's normal, by Xiaomi standards. This whole conversation is like living in LA where it's like you're not supposed to acknowledge the celebrities, but what you do as soon as you see someone, you're just texting like your best friend like, oh, my God, I saw him here, let him walk into the air one other day. Castle Graysco. See, I was thinking as we were seeing Celebrity Row and all the different pockets of it, like, what would be the spots that you guys would want to sit in? I'll love the cafeteria table meme, you know, and when I saw the, like, Sandler Calapari corner, I'm like, that feels like Kyle Man territory to me. That feels like, I don't know, no, I don't know. Me, it took me a minute. Same in yes. I don't know. Cal be a great hang. I don't know. It's not fun to watch a basketball game with. Yeah. Possibly. He's charmed many as Southern man in his life. I'm sure he can. That's true. Who do you think for you, Javier? Are you posting up with Fallon? What are you doing? Now, it's just me and Kylie Jenner all the time, you know. We have a lot of common, we live the same sort of lifestyle. I feel like that would be a robust conversation. You two have more in common than anybody knows. You could drop hints, try to get her to ask what your cucumber, there's a lot of stuff you could do there. All right, so game five, what do you guys see in the future? Anything you picked up from this one, any sort of, like, tactical things, any Dylan Harper, like, he's great, do we just want to, like, give him a little tug real quick or? I think we are. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I think the time for a little tactical things is kind of over. The dispiriting nature of a loss like this, I find it hard to believe it would not have some hangover effect. I'm not saying necessarily that the Spurs are going to lose it all in game five, and that's just what's going to happen. But how do you pick yourself up off the mat after this to then pull off of 3-1, come back? That is, I think, too long a road. It feels much more likely to me, and maybe this is me with sports right or brain yet again, that we're thinking about the images in the moments of this game as, like, the preseason feature fodder for next year's Spurs of, like, oh, every Spur has a moment that haunted them. It's when he's stepping to the line and going over to, it's champagne-y stepping up with, you know, two and a half minutes left or whatever it was and missing that three. It's Dylan Harper throwing that ball away at half-court when he got the slightest pressure. It's Deer and Fox smoking the layup. It's, I mean, it's the podcast. It might be the right medicine one. I mean, I'm not pitching it, but everything is there for work. Create work for yourself, Rob. Here we go. We can't anymore. This, I mean, the O.K.C. thing was, they rallied back, but it wasn't like this. I mean, three in a row. This is pretty, for me, I mean, I wanted this to go to seven just because I just want to watch these games. Sure. I guess it still could, but man, this is going to be, this is going to be such an uphill, uphill thing. I mean, I think if they can manage to, God, if they could win a game six at the guard, obviously that would, like, even the series out in a literal way, but that's the only thing that I think would, like, cleanse it. And they've got to be so tired at this point, man, I mean, that's another thing, too, is these rotations that we were talking about, I was wondering if the fatigue was going to start adding up for the spurs and just the amount of just, like, discipline that it was taking, the communication, the physical toll that it was taking, you keep wondering where it's going to hit a wall with the spurs. See, I was going to say on the flip side, because if this was like a one day between games, at the very least, maybe the spurs, youth, and athleticism could get on top of the older team, Jalen Brunson played into the 40s, OGN, and nobody played into the 40s, like, maybe they could do it by like sheer energy and fervor or something, but man, two days in between this next game, because the next game is going to be on Saturday, which is kind of a weird split. I guess they just wanted the Saturday prime time for this game five, but like, even that is tough. So I don't know, we didn't really talk much about Wembee. How did you guys feel about him just overall in this game? He finished 9 for 25, 24 points. It did feel like really, like, he sunset it in the first half along with the perimeter shooters. Yeah, it didn't really feel like he gave them much stability at all in the second half. Other than, yeah, those moments were here as aggressive on the offensive glass, you could see him kind of hunting for some of those shots, and he hit some jump shots during the third, especially in the fourth quarter, when they really, really needed some kind of answer. Those are big moments, but I don't think you can really compare what he did versus what OJ and OB did, or Jalen Brunson did. Like, the biggest nicks in terms of the stability they provided were just so much more secure than what Wembee was giving this first. Yeah, I mean, you want to, he, you know, took eight threes tonight, we were talking about one, when he gets up in that eight nine territory, I'm feeling pretty good if I'm the opposing team, because it's like we're talking about like, he, some of those like Joelle and Bede, like, short picking pop kind of things in the ball screen that he was doing, they mentioned it on the broadcast. I, I don't mind those shots. You keep, you kind of wonder if they might go to that. I think you just got to reset and go back to the game plan, because I think, I think that the spurs we saw found something, got away from it, lost it. I think they're going to just kind of reset and see if the, if the nicks can answer that again, because I think those things were working. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Anything else? Any good tidings? Oh, I have one more good tidying, just because I feel like somehow even in lavishing praise on OG for hitting the game winning tip in, we've somehow just kind of glossed over the fact that he had 33 points on 15 shots. Uh, I, the fact that he has become this rock solid metronomic part of what the nicks do. You know, McHale Bridges is a little, a little up and down. Cad has had amazing moments, but also really quiet fourth quarters. OG might be like front to back the most consistent player on the floor for a New York team that is one win away from the NBA title. And that's not the kind of thing I feel like we should just end up glossing over. Well, I mean, this might be overly symbolic. Maybe I'm also doing the sports rivalry thing there, but like it does feel like the OG trade as we look back on it really did kind of form this team in a way that like they needed to. It's just so crazy how he was always so good. Clearly, because we went through several deadlines mocking him to 30 different teams because every team could use a player like him. It's just crazy how he went from a guy who's so talented and had so much potential, but wanted to be more, but maybe it didn't really necessarily profile as that sort of player, but it's so offinger that like he couldn't get there to now he's just like this paragon of stability and health. Like I don't know what happened because it's not like he went from a coach that ran him into the ground to a coach that was going to preserve him because he went straight from Nick Nurse to Tom Tibbado. And so it like it isn't that like maybe the Nick just had a plan in order to pace him out or use him properly, but like he's going to go down as like one of the most important players for one of the most important teams of this recent era and like it's a credit to him like these types of players that get tossed around a lot is like all role player on this team or that team like tend to get like forgotten or at the very least don't live up to this sort of hype and like yeah he really was worth all of the podcasts we did about oh my gosh I still kind of firmly believe that he might have saved the Grizzlies like if they had just traded for him during the John Moran air like the peak of it the height of it where they really needed a quality three that team might still exist and be really good. They're probably a couple other teams that could have traded for OG and saved themselves in the process. The Nick's ended up with him and not only has he just covered himself in glory in so many of these massive moments he has clearly just the production of getting the Nick's here in the first place he's going to live forever in the reels of this game in particular and that's where first charmed as this Nick's run has been this was a truly magical game like this is an all-time minted make the DVDs send it out into the world put it as a hardwood classic right now this will its read level shit completely like we are going to be remembering this game whether you're a Nick's fan or not like on our deathbed someday like that is this is basketball history and OG and an OB is I think the the defining reason why we're going to remember it as such yeah you'll be thinking about my tomato stories all of the many dick puns that we've made on this podcast and just just friendship you joke but what are the nicks if not the power friendship and what is this podcast if not the power friendship and they had some big old grape tomatoes in that second half and OG OG is one of the best two way players in the world I mean that that's just kind of an obvious one at this point but I mean he can shuttle with the ball he can stop the run he's just built like a truck his trance he's had four or five of the like most impressive transition like defensive plays that I've seen in all of these these playoffs just blocking Dylan Harper at the rim inexplicably just doing all kinds of crazy stuff and like you said metronomic is the way you know he's a culture guy yeah I mean what did he make seven of nine threes tonight you know granted nine threes 10 of 15 from the fields come on one person also peeling off of him inexplicably at the dumbest possible time so they got to shore that up so yeah I mean and that was something that was building throughout the game they kept leaving him and then it just culminated in leaving him at the worst possible time well and not to tip our hands too much but we're about to file some ballots pretty soon for the last top 100 iteration of this NBA season I'm just ready to be fully responsible about Oji Ananovi's ranking on this list about to be huge when you can do this on that stage I'm willing to consider anything third overall too yeah yeah why not so Oji as it stands right now number 40 on our list yes he's right between oh this is funny deer and fox is at 38 airing Gordon oh key oh key oh key oh key oh key virtual predecessor I would say fair and 41 concaniple stuff they got a good let's have a conversation all right Kyle you had a stat one last stat I feel like we need like a drop for you which is like like crap music like go man stay let's fucking go this is something and it has an updated for the data for this game but coming into this game I wonder if this is something that they could mess with a little bit I'd had the growing suspicion and I think we talked about it on this show that Harper was like acutely set up to bother Jalen Brunson and I went and looked up the numbers and they were staggering so 61 touches coming into like through game three where Harper was on Brunson 0.585 points per chance on 61 possessions so that's the nicks that that's a interesting thing I just wonder if they have a way to maybe tilt around their matchups or lean more into that one and you said that was just the first three games though that number yes the tonight I mean it's got him a guy one's going up unfortunately yeah he spent a lot of time guarding Jalen Brunson in the second half I think he did a good responsible job but good responsible defense wasn't really enough in this one well the breaking around the ball screen thing Brunson hadn't been getting that call and he got Harper on it's critical once and I that was a backbreaker yeah cool set let's go I meant to say a huge win for the digs yeah all right let's let's go out on there um I think we'll be back on Monday that's the schedule that's got laid out for us I believe I think so I think that's the plan okay so we'll be talking about game five maybe previewing the game six or looking forward to what's next just in life going on with Taylor Swift and all that other stuff um thank you to Ben Cruz thank you to Victoria Valencia back from Sweden welcome back I can never left uh we'll talk to you on Monday see you later 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Starkisino or 18 plus in present in DC Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called one 800 gambler or one 800 my reset call one a eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help dot org in Maryland hope is here visit gambling help line ma dot org or call eight hundred three two seven five oh five oh four twenty four seven support in Massachusetts or call one eight seven seven eight hope and why or text hope and why in New York Louisiana call one eight seven seven seven seven zero seven eight six seven