The Jackson 5's "I Want You Back"

♪ Oh baby, I was blind to let you go ♪ ♪ But now I see you ♪ - Woo! - That is a rhyme for the agent, man. - Good, man. ♪ And as I, yes I do not ♪ (laughs) - That's the, what I'm positive. That's the first, you know? - Oh! - That he became legendary later. - Yeah, later. (banging) - Luxury. Today's song is by a group that needs little introduction. Indeed, when we think of a singing group to this day, from pop to R&B to K-pop, this is the group that defines our expectations. - That's absolutely right, T yellow. And this is the song that broke this family band worldwide, becoming their first ever number one single, and rocketing them, particularly the shortest member, to global superstardom. - This is part one of our two part episode, focusing on the evolution of that famous group from Gary, Indiana. And even if you've heard this song a million times, it's not too late to take a second look. Today, we're talking one song, and that song is "I Want You Back" by the Jackson Five. (upbeat music) - I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ, Diallo Riddle. - And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist, Luxury, aka the guy who whispers. - Interpolation. (laughs) - And this is one song. - The show where we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs across genres, and tell you why they deserve one more listen. - You will hear these songs like you've never heard them before, and you can watch one song on YouTube and Spotify. While you're there, please like and subscribe. - Luxury, when was the first time you heard "I Want You Back"? - I mean, it's one of those songs in the Jackson Five. The Jackson's already, you just grow up and they've always been around. And I can't tell you that I can remember the, the first time I heard the song, but it didn't. I was thinking, I was trying to think in advance, like when did I first hear it? And I think it might have been one of those kind of samples or things, but then when I was trying to retrace my steps, I was like, oh yeah, 'cause I was listening to the piano part, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. And I was like, oh, it's OPP by Naughty by Nature. (upbeat music) But then I listened and I was like, it's duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. - Yeah, that's the very similar sounding A, B, C. - Right. ♪ A, B, C, ♪ ♪ If you want to drink ♪ ♪ Off simple and slow, bring me A, B, C ♪ - It's A, B, C. - And by the way, not the song we're doing today, which is "I Want You Back." - We listened "What's on Nation." We were talking about which Jackson Five saw to do. We did have this debate. Should we do A, B, C or I want you back? I don't think we do both, since they're both sonically quite similar. - Let's talk about the similarities. I'll finish my story, by the way. So first of all, I realized, okay, it's not OPP, that's, they're using A, B, C, they're sampling A, B, C. So I was like, what else? Oh, maybe it's Chris Cross, maybe it's Jump. Let's listen to that. ♪ Jump, jump, jump ♪ ♪ So make that a make up ♪ ♪ Jump, jump ♪ ♪ I'll get it, make it a make up ♪ ♪ Jump, jump ♪ ♪ This course a make up ♪ ♪ Jump, jump ♪ - And that was it, that's the answer. That is actually from "I Want You Back." - Yeah, I think that might've been one of the early, like hip-hop songs I heard where I was like, that's a sample I wonder what the source is. I think I might've chased the source back to I want you back from the Chris Cross version, but then it got me thinking, why am I confusing these two songs? And I realized there's a lot of reasons to get them confused. - Absolutely, 100%. I just love the idea that your first expression I want you back was through "Chris Cross Jump." - I mean, I don't know if I'd heard it before, but like when I think about it, I'm like, it's really locked in. When I first started listening back to the song to prepare for the episode, all I could think of that was "Chris Cross Jump," like it kept on popping in my head. So I did a really quick analysis of the reasons why we get "I Want You Back" and ABC. - And ABC. - Confused? And there are a lot of good reasons. "I Want You Back" was their first number one hit in 1969. - Okay. - So a year later they go back to the drawing board, kind of. - Oh my gosh, it's "Let's Twist Again." ♪ Come on baby ♪ ♪ Let's do that swing ♪ ♪ Take me by my little hand ♪ ♪ And go like this ♪ ♪ We're gonna do the twist and go like this ♪ ♪ Come on, let's twist again ♪ ♪ I'm like, look at that summer ♪ ♪ Yeah, let's twist again ♪ - It's "Let's Twist Again" like we did last summer. That's right. - That's the shorthand we use on the show. It's always one of those "Let's Twist Again." - It's the same old song, "Circup by Honeybunch." They took the same template and re-did the song. I'll give you a few examples of stuff that is the same in both of the songs. Here we go. Starting with the intro piano break, let's hear 'em side by side. This is ABC, which begins like this. (upbeat music) So it's done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done. - What is that? Is that a horn? Is that a guitar? - That's a guitar, like really fuzzed out your guitar, yeah. - Okay, fuzzed your guitar. (upbeat music) And I'll play you in the same key, that same piano part. Here it is isolated from, I want you back. (laughs) It's the same key. - Oh my God. - It's the same part. - It's the same number of notes, it's one, two, three. - One, two, three. - That's right. - One, two, three. - It's also the bapa, bapa, bapa that we just heard. I'll play that again. (upbeat music) And that shows up in "I Want You Back," sounding like this. - Bapa, bapa, bapa, bapa, bapa, bapa, bapa. - Different notes, but bapa. - Yeah. - It's bapa. - It's bapa. - It's bapa. - They're the only bapa market. They definitely made a checklist. It's like, let's use that piano again. Let's use that fuzzy guitar again, 'cause that same sound appears in both songs. Let's use the bup-ups, and to be clear, these are made by the same group of musicians, the same songwriter. So this is definitely a conscious choice. - Can we answer the question right away? Is this, 'cause there's that great documentary about the funk brothers, that famous band. Are the funk brothers playing on these songs? - There are LA-based funk brothers playing both songs. Absolutely. We'll be naming them and giving them flowers a little bit later. It's the same group of funk brothers, the LA edition. And so we've got a walking baseline in the chorus of both songs. There's a dropped beat before both of the chorus breaks. Like, they literally took a pencil and paper and mapped out what they should do to make their first hit into a second hit. And finally, not unimportantly, there's a crazy, syncopated snare on that. And four, like, it's crazy how many similarities between the two songs. - Totally. - Which is why, to this day, I get them confused all the time. And I tell you, when I get confused a lot more often, then I think maybe most people is hit me baby one more time and oops, I did it again. - Totally. ♪ Give me a sign ♪ ♪ Hit me baby one more time ♪ ♪ I did it again, I think ♪ - And I think it was sort of the same thing, like, hey, when it worked the last time, let's do some of the same stuff in this follow-up style. - That's a legitimate means of, it's a legitimate songwriting message. - Absolutely. - Writing sideways. - From your own hit. - Many times, exactly, when it's from your own hit, you're even less likely to get nicked for it. And just for kicks, guys, 'cause it's fun. And I heard this break, I was like, oh, damn, I know exactly what they were borrowing from. This is the break from ABC. Here it comes. ♪ Give me a sign ♪ - That I, yeah. Does that sound familiar? This is 1970. In 1970, what's one of the coolest funk songs of all time that had just come out in 1969? I'll tell you. - Maybe a sly. - Great guess. It's close. This is the meter's sissy strut from June 1969, which starts with this. - Oh, yeah. (laughing) The build to the, yeah, yeah. It's literally the same. So I love how they sort of added all these ideas together to make the second hit. - Listen. Barry, Gordy, and Joe Jackson, clearly listening to the radio. - Very good at it, too. Very good at it, too. Y'all, what about you? When was the first time you heard this song? - It's such an interesting question. I really tried to figure out when would it have been the first time that I was consciously, definitely aware of the Jackson Five? In Atlanta, there were two cartoons, one from 1965, one from 1971. They were in syndication, so they came on every day after school. So it was like an hour of the Beatles cartoon, which was definitely my first exposure to the Beatles. It was the reason why from my fifth grade, I'd never forget for my fifth birthday, when I turned five, I asked my parents for a Beatles cake, and I think back now, holy smokes, my dad made little Beatles figurines. - No, that's so cool. - And I still have the John figurine. - That might be so valuable. That's like your, - Not your Rosebud right there. - Yeah. - Yeah. He made four little Beatles for the top of the cake. Right after the Beatles cartoon went off, it was the Jackson Five cartoon, which is a matter of-- - But this is your every day after school, you come home and you watch this block on some syndicated station, like, you know. - It was channel 46-- - Channel 46 for those who are paying attention. - You know what I'm watching the Brady Bunch? That's my version of that, yeah. Did you watch, did you have also the Brady Bunch? - I had no knowledge of the Brady Bunch. - That's crazy. - Like zero. Like, you know, I know so many people in my age, you know, the Brady Bunch and Gilgins I was, I watched none of that stuff. I was watching a lot of early anime, like Star Blazers, and Robotech, and I was really into, I was really into these cartoons about bands, because they were very much like Scooby Doo. They got into adventures. I think for both the Beatles cartoon and the Jackson Five cartoon, none of these are the real people's voices. - No, of course not. - You know. - They didn't have time for that, no. - But they played, they had, but the music syncs were the real songs. And I remember that the Jackson Five cartoon started off, I'm pretty sure it started off with ABC, and every episode ended ironically with Mama's Pearl, which is one of my favorite Jackson Five songs to this day. (upbeat music) ♪ Let down those clouds in my love world ♪ ♪ Why would you miss it? ♪ ♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh, baby, goodie girl ♪ - You know, every episode ended with that great song. And by the way, I know what you're probably thinking. - Yeah. - I agree. I hear even more similarities. - There's so much with ABC and I want you back. - But I was gonna say to build on that, like I hear so much meters suddenly. Now that my ears are tuned to it, 'cause the meters are like the coolest band who ever lived, like in a lot of ways. And like, I think they made a huge impact because what they were doing was the syncopations. And there's a lot of baselines and guitar lines that are coordinated, so they're just playing the same line. I'm hearing a lot of stuff that in 1970 would have sounded super fresh, 'cause that band had just come out like a year before. And every musician was definitely listening to them and taking some cues from it. - 100%. - Anyway, I'm just hearing that with the syncopated snares and the bum, bum, bum, the sort of non-liarical vocals, those things are in other songs as well in other forms. But having made that eye-eye connection, I gotta definitely, these guys are listening to the meters, 100%. - Looking back, I think that that cartoon had a big, you know, impact on as impressionable kids. 'Cause it's not like the Jackson 5 or the only group with this sound, and even with like young singers, the silvers, famously, are sort of like an underrated singing group that had a very Jackson 5 sound. (upbeat music) ♪ Oh only, only one can wait, only one more ♪ - There were other groups, you know, with like little kids, definitely by the time I was coming along in the 80s. But there was something about the Jackson 5 having their own cartoon. I think it definitely expanded their influence. There were other singing groups, even with little kids, that were not as deified, you know. - No, that's such an interesting point, because it's also interesting our parallel experiences, 'cause I'm watching the Brady Bunch and the Partridge family, which are two family bands, also with TV shows, right? - Wait, the Brady's at a band? ♪ When it's time to change, then it's time to change ♪ ♪ Don't bite the tie, come along for the ride, don't you see? ♪ ♪ When it's time to change ♪ - Yeah, the Brady's at a band. - I didn't know the Brady's at a band. - The Brady's at a band, the Partridge family at a band. - I didn't know the Partridge family. - I'm also watching the monkeys. So like we're kind of out. - They're literally a band. - We're kind of, we're both watching after school, like band comedy and a kid shows. - I mean, don't sleep on Josie and the pussy kids. - Let's not sleep on them. - I feel like that's one of the best. There's another podcast shout out to Pam Lathen and Rachel Lindsay, but he did a whole list of like his favorite fake bands. - Yeah, oh wow. - And Josie was on that list. - Right. - The Archie's had real hits, yeah. - But it really puts the band in this iconic status in pop culture to not just be playing records on the radio, but to also be on TV. That was the next level. And to this day, you know, we're still able to see this footage. It does kind of put them in a different unique category with the monkeys and the Partridge family and the Beatles. - Imagine a slide had his own cartoon. - Yeah. - We might all be walking around singing stand as kids, you know? But before they were Jackson 5, they were just a family. And they had a couple of names before they became the Jackson 5. They were the Jackson brothers. That made sense because Joe had a basically enlisted Jackie Tito and Jermaine into a group, the three oldest boys. They had a couple of people in the band who were not even technically the siblings. You know, there was famously Johnny Jackson and Ronnie Rancefer who appeared in some early recordings and they're listed as like, you know, cousins or, you know, so they're just-- - I had no idea. - Jackson's, but they're not, they're not, you know, - They were all like the beach boys where they got the cousins involved. - Exactly. - That's really interesting. I didn't know that. - So even when the five brothers idea finally comes along and it feels like it's the whole brand, there was a little bit of construction around it. Now this is what we need to talk about Bobby Taylor. - This is the unsung hero of this episode. He needs his flowers. We're gonna give him to him. - Bobby Taylor and the Vancouver's, I was laughing. I was like, what was aspirational about this and your Vancouver's like? - Not like it was in Europe. - Bobby Taylor and the Montreals. (laughing) - We in Montreal, we in Canada, y'all. - Canada is still fancy. - Bobby Taylor. - Absolutely. Bobby Taylor is credited with discovering the Jackson 5 and helping bring them to Motown. People have said that Bobby Taylor's role was to see talent, work with them. - Cultivate. - Exactly. He was also one of the main people who was able to convince the label, like, hey, why don't you have the band be anointed by Diana Ross? And that's where you get Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5. - And let's face it, it's sort of the beginning of the end of Bobby Taylor's role because part of the tragedy of Bobby Taylor and the story of the song we're talking about today is the first album, which is, as you mentioned, it's called Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5. They were just trying to get some of that Diana shine from this brand new act that no one had heard of before. So Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 is the first record. It comes out in October 1969. And 10 of the 12 songs on that record are Bobby Taylor productions of mostly cover songs. In fact, they're all cover songs. It's Stevie Wonder song, there's a smoky song, there's a slide in the Family Stone song, Miracles song. But at a certain point with those 10 tracks completed and two tracks to go for the record, Bobby Taylor gets cut out completely by Berry Gordy, head of Motown Records, who decides to put together his own songwriting crew, which he calls the corporation, 'cause at this point, he's obviously aware that publishing is another source of income. - It's about that double dipping. - There's so much of that, you know. - Talk about on the departure episode, you did that too. - Yeah, yeah, there was a friend of mine who was recently saying like, well, you know, I know that we don't play puffy songs anymore, but he produced a lot of these songs. He starts rolling off these songs. And I'm like, no, that was technically the hitman who produced that word. - I was Ryan Leslie who produced that. Puffy's another one who was like throwing his label CEO, so he's getting paid like that. But then on top of that, he's putting his name as like a producer on social media. - He's like, how many fingers can I put in this pie, basically? - Oh God. - He's like, you don't like that? - It's too visual. - But you're basically saying Bobby Taylor got pushed to the sideline. - He basically got pushed to the sideline in favor of a group called the Corporation. So this is a songwriting entity that Berry Gordy puts together, it should mention that in 1969, it's kind of a pivotal year, because that's the year that Berry Gordy sets up a satellite Motown operation in LA. The summer of that year, he moves the Jackson's, including Joseph, from Detroit to LA. And he hears this demo called, I want to be free. Unfortunately, I could not find an example of it, but this is an early version of the song I want you back, intended for Gladys and I. - Oh, no. - Yeah, it's written by Freddie Parent, Alfonso Micell and Dick Richards. Those are the three. - Oh, Micell, awesome, very cool. These are the three co-writers along with Berry Gordy of today's song. And they had written this song for Gladys Night, Berry Gordy, here's it and goes, you know what, I think I want to use that for my new band for the Jackson's. And he does, he brings that song and he brings the songwriters in, together and he pushes Bobby Taylor out. He's no longer a part of the equation. So this songwriting team, the Corporation. - Bobby didn't find, I want you back. - He did not, unfortunately. He did not participate in that song. He's on the other 10 songs as producer, but not the hit. So the Corporation, just a little more about that, they replaced Holland, Dozier Holland, who had left Motown in 1967. And it's important to note that the reason why this group of songwriters is called the Corporation. And not by their names. It's because Berry Gordy was annoyed that Holland, Dozier Holland had made recognition. And got famous. And they left. - Oh, so lame. - It's so lame. So he's like, I'm going to call it the Corporation. And only now with episodes of one song that names, the actual songwriter names are revealed. There are no musician names on the labels either, on any of these early records. So Berry Gordy kept his-- - It is like the Funk Brothers all over again. - It's the Funk Brothers all over again. Getting the information on who made these records requires a little more digging. So let's give a little shine to these names. The Corporation is Alfonso Maisel, who, along with his brother, Larry, they produced Johnny Hammond, Donald Bird. They produced a taste of Honey's Boogie, Yogi, Yogi. (upbeat music) - And for hip-hop fans out there who might recognize the name, Maisel, it is indeed the case that Alfonso and his brother, Larry, were cousins of Jam Master J. - Apparently they're just a great family because they're also cousins of Ronnie Specter. - Right. - It's the Ronnie. - And Nedra of The Ronits. - That's right. - That's crazy. - So the second songwriter, part of the Corporation, is Freddie Perrin, who also co-wrote ABC in the Love You Saved, and also co-wrote and produced, "I Will Survive" by Gloria Gainer. (upbeat music) - So these guys are all, have a second life as disco aficionados later in the '70s. And he also wrote, "It's so hard to say goodbye to yesterday." - Which was originally sung by. - G.C. Cameron, before the Boys to Men version. - I love on our show, when you find out that song, that you're just associated with one artist, is actually a cover. It's Roberta Flack, It's Dolly Parton. Like there's so many Whitney Houston, so many songs that that applies to. - Absolutely, right. And finally, "Deak Richards" who wrote and produced songs with Martha Vandela's Bobby Daron, and he produced the "Supreme" after HDH, left Motown, Holland, Dozer Holland. And last but not least, "Deak Richards" who wrote and produced a bunch of "Supreme" hits, including "Love Child" after Holland, Dozer Holland left. So that's the group called "The Corporation" along with Barry Gordy. According to Marlon and Tito, I read an interview who explained what all their roles were. Ready was the score and arrangement sky. Alfonso was also part of the arrangements. "Deak" did the lyrics, and Barry Gordy, apparently was the melody guru. - Where was the song recorded? - Right down the street, sound factory, West Hollywood, California, not Detroit. You know, like, no, I always associate the, you know, Gary Indiana Detroit Motown. So this era on the Jackson 5, you have to know this is his, his fill. Yeah, this is his fill Los Angeles, it's the Motown outpost that they had set up here. All right, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll hear the genius of these previously unsung musicians. We will hear Michael's amazing isolated vocals, and we'll begin to understand all the reasons why this thing keeps working across generations. Stick around. We'll break it down. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. All right, welcome back to one song, "Lexury." This song that we're talking about today, I want you back, is their first Motown single, and their first hit single. But it should be said, they did have a single before on a very small label called "Steel Town," the "Steel Town" sessions. A song called "Big Boy." Let's hear a little bit of that. And that is soul music. Nine years old. It's only nine there. Yeah, this 1967. By the way, this song, "Big Boy" gets re-recorded at Motown and placed on the album "Diana Rosses." This version is by the Jackson Five plus Johnny. The Johnny Jackson we mentioned earlier when they were using some non-ciblings. But now we've come to "I Want You Back," their first hit single, "The Song" that introduces Michael and the band to the world. And we've got the stems. So my man, "Lexury," where do we want to start? Should we start with the drums? Let's start with the drums. And we believe this is Gene Pello. But again, no credits on the liner notes. So all of the band names, all of the musician names we'll be saying today, come from later interviews and we'll be given as much shine as we can. Let's listen to who we think is Gene Pello, joined by Sandra Crouch on tambourine and Joe Clayton on Bongo. And here's where the percussion comes in. We think this is Sandra Crouch and Joe Clayton. And there we have the full beat coming in. So funky with the Bongo band. Incredible Bongo band. But interestingly, the beat drops out after that intro. Oh, by the way, I love how the beat goes in and out. Until we were working on this song this week, I didn't realize the heavy lifting that those bongos are doing. The bongos do a lot to set this party off right. That's right, because they're going through this first. First, when Michael comes in, the drum beat drops out. So the bongos are keeping the tempo going. Listen, the music dropping out like that at the top, another just one of those classic, such a good decision. You know what I mean? It's a big tension build moment. We'll be hearing some more instruments adding tension a little bit later. It also makes the song feel bigger, ironically, by having that drop out, it makes like, oh, this song is really about to go. I'll say what I was an open format DJ. There was something about, like, if you could bring it in perfectly with the, is that a glissando? Yeah, the piano glissando. The piano glissando. If you did it just right, where the piano glissando and then that first one came in, there was something that just happens to the crowd, where there's just like, oh, shoot, that's that song. It's almost like a call to the dance floor. It's it's perfect. It's one of those decisions. It reminds me of a fan of the show, Owen Cutswood. He's like, are you stupid? Oh, and I'm wearing one of your shirts. It's one of those things. It's like, you can't do that, but yes, you can. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. You can do that too. I think about this song. I think about shook ones by mob deep. There's something great when like, the music drops out unexpectedly at the beginning of the song. It's sort of like, just let you marinate for a second. It's like, here comes the song. That's right. So the beats do drop out like you say. And then they come back in the chorus. And then we get this full beat. I'll play you one layer at a time. First, the drums. And add to that some claps. And some bongos. And some tambourines. And then we're about to get to the post chorus. Check this out. Wait, I got it wrong. Okay, the syncopation on this. Yes, we got to talk about this. It feels imperfect. When I went back and listened to it this week, I was like, are those bongos perfect? I don't think they're perfect. What do you mean? Okay. I mean, you're talking about are they syncing up exactly where they're following exactly where I would think they need to. Well, there's two things. That's not even criticism. That's just like to point out how music sounded different when you had 18 musicians on the track versus now when you would just program it in the squares. Well, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit because we do need to give some shine to the arrangement of the song being a little bit on the prog side. We have we have some interesting decisions that were made in a pop song and a funk and R&B maybe based pop song in 1969. What just happened there at the end of the chorus that surprised all of our ears, even though we've heard this on a million times, I didn't get it right, is that we have half a bar basically. The chorus is 7.5 bars or rather seven bars of four and one bar of two. Yeah, right. It's not a full eight. And then when we have that post chorus thing which is the syncopated snare, it's on the here. I'll just play it and then I'll explain what it is. So here's the end of the chorus. I'll count it with you and then we'll go into this crazy post chorus. Okay, count from here. Three, four, one, two, three, four, two, two, three, four, three, two, three, four, one, two, one, two, one, two, three, and a four, and a one, two, and a four, and a four, and a four. It's on the E of four. Again, it's some meters level syncopated stuff going on there. So syncopated. It's so syncopated and surprising, but we just had these two really wonderful surprising choices made in the arrangement of this pop song that gives it some extra special flavor, I would say. It's it's so good and you know what? We all heard that it didn't go to eight. And yet that's one of the things I love about this show is that when you sit back and you're like, what a weird choice to make for a pop song. That's a cool choice. Yeah, they could have gone all the way to four bars. Yeah, nothing required them to, but it makes it more surprising and it hooks your ear. Yeah, it's like a little more bland. It would have been too much. It's a little bit more bland. It's like the pixies do stuff like that. It's more of a like it's a very modern sounding choice. Or maybe it's more of a like yes Genesis King Crimson kind of pre-prog rock thing to do, but in 1969 they dropped half a bar in a chorus of a huge pop song. Awesome. One more connection that just came in my head by the way is like, okay, we we get dropped half bars in other music. We get it like maybe in jazz, but like the howl David Burtbacker act thing. That popped in my head as being maybe another influence because that's another place where you'd find pop music with really surprising choices about meter and time signatures in the 60s. So that could have been an influence as much as the meters was clearly an influence. That makes a lot. Look, we don't know much about Jean Pello. He's one of these musicians that like, there's just not a lot out there, but we believe he's born Eugene Pellicci and that he was a session player for a bunch of instrumental and surf rock bands like the Marquets and the T-bones. I feel like this is the guy you get because they're recording in L.A. and instead of Detroit. 100%. Yes. And he played on records with the beach boys and the ventures and the monkeys capped in beef heart, but don't know much about him other than what I just told you. That's about all I could find. That's crazy. I guarantee his family's his family member, his surviving estate will find us in the comments and be like, thank you. Yeah, might be one of the few mentions ever. Exactly. While we're talking about the band names that the Jackson five had before they became the Jackson five, we want to be also the ones to debunk a rumor that some of you might have heard. There was a rumor that was going around for a long time that the band ripples and waves plus Michael was the Jackson five, but that got debunked in 2003 and I won't go into the lawsuit, but basically the guy said, no, this was a completely other group that sounded like the Jackson five and the Michael in that group also from Gary, Indiana, ironically was actually a kid named Michael Rogers. So it's not the same group. I feel like we should have that be a segment like a recurring thing and call it debunked debunked or quashed doing debunked. I love that we could be able to give Jim Pello some flowers onto the base. This is one of the finding features of the song. Yeah, this baseline is practically its own melodic hook that you can sing when you think about the song. It's by Wilton Felder, bass and sax player who's in the jazz crusaders aka the crusaders, so he played with Joe Sample and Larry Carlton. By the way, important fact before you go on, because I want to hear a reaction to that, but the most important thing is that he's also born on August 31st, just like me. We share a birthday. All right, we guys have a birthday. Love you, Wilton Felder. I love it when these guys come from a jazz background because then the bass playing for pop songs is like, they're like, oh, there's all you need. Let me fill it in a little bit, which is what he's done. He has a lot of melodic motion in between the chords, which we're about to talk about because there's a lot of chords in the song. It's kind of crazy. But yeah, so he also plays on ABC. He also played on Marvin Gays. Let's get it on. And Hughes Corp, rock the boat. - Oh man. - And a huge session, like a list as long as your arm for Joni Mitchell, Steely Dan, Billy Joel, recordings up the waz for this man, is his liner note credits take him to Joan Bias, Randy Newman, hundreds more. - He does a lot in this song, so where do you want to start? Maybe at the beginning? (hip-hop music) - A lot of space. (hip-hop music) - That's here, the chorus. (hip-hop music) - You can almost see him being like. - Yeah. He's playing an electric bass. - Oh, of course. - Yeah. - But I hear what you're saying. It kind of feels like the walking bass line is very much an upright bass jazz thing. - He does, that's all I meant, I was saying. - I told you guys. - I told you guys. - It's like a jazz bass play. - 100% agree, yeah, yeah. And it's not James Jamerson, who would also have been in the Motown LA stable at the time. And it sounds very Jamerson-esque. Like that melodic bass style is so, James Jamerson. We've talked about him on lots of earlier episodes. Go back to our Supreme's episodes. - That's our really deep kind of love letter to the Funk brothers and the Motown musicians. But this is Wilton Felder, another incredible jazz musician. - We heard the intro, we heard the chorus. What other things is Wilton trying out? - Let's hear him do the end of that chorus into the "I Want You Back" build. And I'll build up some more layers 'cause that section is so beautiful and crazy. Again, it's like crazy, it appears in this song on the radio, number one in 1969. (upbeat music) Lotta bleeds in those drums. "I Want You Back" time. (upbeat music) One, he ended, two he ended. One, he ended, two he ended. - I keep getting the bloody syncopation. I even wrote down where the 16th note is, but it surprises me every time. Let's listen again. - Yeah, I'll try it. - You got it, okay. I'm gonna watch you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Yeah. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - I think that snare makes sense when you're thinking about like doing the jerk, you know, matching potatoes. - It's very tricky. It's like, it's, I was thinking about this. Like people dance differently in the late '60s. And you can really see who could dance and like move, you know? There's, I love watching old clips on social media. Just, everybody had their own style, but they're all kind of like finding like weird beats and there's a lot of jerkiness. - If I were there in the '60s on some like whatever American bandsau version would have been or a soul train, I would have been the guy like dancing super literally. So I would have like jerked my body like at that E, like on the snare beat I would be boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, I would have been the one that I would have been me too. - I would have been me too, man. I would have been straggling, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. (laughs) See, that's the sexy version. I would have just been goofy about it, boom, boom, boom, boom. (laughs) - My sexy is kind of goofy. (laughs) - We both married up, let's face it. (laughs) - One of my favorite parts in the whole song comes in, I think it's after the second chorus. - Yes, the breakdown. - Oh, the breakdown. And that's when the bass like just shines. Can we hear a little bit of that? - Let's listen. (upbeat music) - He just fills in all the space there, 'cause the drums around him. - But also, and I know that we haven't gone to the vocals yet, his do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. All I hear is Michael sort of dancing with that, with his, (vocalizing) they're kind of like doing like a healing. - I'm so glad you brought that up, because the drums, the bass and the vocals are all doing kind of a dance of a mixer play. Sometimes, they're mirroring each other, but sometimes they're leaving space the one for the other. So that's a really great point. And in this section, he's filling in all the 16th notes with kind of a mix of arpeggio and just melody, like just a walking bass line. But it just perfectly, I'll play it with the vocals, so you can hear the interplay. Again, the drums are out in this section, and let's listen to what the vocals are doing, with the bass. (vocalizing) ♪ I pick up, I pick up ♪ ♪ All I need ♪ ♪ One more jam ♪ - And then so satisfying when it comes back in. ♪ Baby, baby, baby ♪ ♪ Baby ♪ (laughing) - We are all from Gary and Neanna today. (laughing) All right, so the bass is laying down a solid foundation. - Solid foundation. - Solid foundation for the corporation. But now, what is happening with the guitar? - So in the guitar, we have a lot going on because we have three guitar players. And we know who they are because of an interview with one of them. So Louis Shelton is one of the guitar players who confirmed that he played along with David T. Walker and Don Peek from the Funk Brothers. And Shelton confirms the lineup because, as he says, they'd all just played on the monkeys last train to Clarksville. - Oh, hell yeah. (upbeat music) ♪ Take the last train of Clarksville ♪ ♪ I'll meet you at the finish ♪ - And so he says, quote, I assume that's why the contractor for the Motown sessions called me to play on their first recordings. We had just recorded last train to Clarksville. And I guess he just had his phone number by the phone. He's like, let me get those guys back again. So the same band that is playing on last train to Clarksville. - This is a great song. - That's playing on, I want you back by the Jackson Five. - Now I gotta go back to this as Clarksville. - Yeah, another monkeys connection with the Jackson Five. So if you're listening to, this is from 1969. So we have a lot of like hard panning because they're still figuring out how mono and stereo work. Not everybody has stereo yet. So their mixes are sometimes mono, sometimes stereo. You'll hear on one channel, two guitars and on the other channel, you'll hear the other guitar. I'm gonna play you the first two guitars. One of them is doubling the bass line. And the other guitar is doing that iconic ostinato that insistent, da, da, da, da, da. Which doesn't change with the chords. It just stays the same the whole time. We're in a flat, which incidentally, interestingly, I just learned this, is the least popular of the major keys. I never knew that. The 20th most popular of all the keys, but the least popular major key. So you're gonna hear just A flat in one guitar and doubling of the bass line in the other. Here we go. (upbeat music) So that goes through pretty much the whole song. When guitar player is just playing that ostinato, pretty much the whole time. And then we have this third guitar coming in, right where I stopped it, which is halfway through the intro. And it's doing this really beautiful kind of jazzy thing. I wish I could tell you which guitar player played which part, but I don't know that. But let's listen to the pretty jazzy part. (upbeat music) That's that, that's the part. I don't know. Yeah, it's so beautiful. It's very emotional, right? (upbeat music) It's just coughing, the chords. It's very jazzy, the car player. (upbeat music) And then he's getting a little more confident here. You'll notice he gets a little more confident. (upbeat music) He's like, oh, I got this. (laughing) The reason why I say that is because you have to remember these session guys literally played on the monkeys the day before. They didn't get a demo version. They didn't get a chance to like go through. They got a piece of paper put in front of them with probably just the chords written down by the arranger. And they probably might have run through the song once or twice, maybe three times. They also might have just started playing and hit record. So what I hear when I hear this guitar in particular is he's sort of, he's looking at the chords on the chart. And he's like, oh, I can play this, I can play this. And then he kind of figures it out about eight bars in. He's like, okay, I got my part. And then he plays it a little more confidently. By the way, I love the fact you bring up the word confidence because as a session musician, if they don't like what you do today, you may not get hired for months and months and months. So like, I like the idea that like halfway through the song he's like, oh, they like what I'm doing here. You're right, they're getting some feedback. Like someone's nodding and they can control it with or something. So he's like, all right, I got this. I'm going to just do that again. But more confidently. (humming) And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, he's like. (laughing) And then we have that iconic distortion part that we heard earlier when we were doing the comparison with ABC, let's listen to that. (funky music) It's very nasal. - Well, it's also very ABC. That's that pleasant guitar you're talking about. - That's what I'm saying, yeah. - That's sort of a hooky thing. Again, this is AM radio, probably 1960. Most people are hearing this on. FM is not really a thing till the '70s. So anything that kind of stands out in that register 'cause there's a bass. - There's no bass all over it. - There's only no low bass. - Troubles of mids, but the radio is a mids. - That sounds to me also like it might be a guitar like an early fuzz pedal. Remember, these pedals are all super new. Jimmy Hendrix, like that's all super new. Led Zeppelin, they've got the earliest pedals. - '69, man. - That could be like a big muff or something like that, but it also might just be the guitar plugged in to the board and just on overdrive, just overdrive, like on 10. That's not the way you can get that. - And I think about a spirit in the sky. - Yes, that's a great comparison. (funky music) - Yeah, that's a great comparison. And then in the breakdown, this is what it does. And I'll bring in some more instruments as we listen. (funky music) It's so beautiful. And then the drums come back. If you can hear, that guitar part goes back to the send-in. That sounds like someone, not sure what to do. What should I do here? You can just kind of get some rhythm, but no actual notes. He's kind of vamping. And it goes back to that part. So that's the same guitar. That's pretty what is doing the fuzzy stuff too. It's on the same track. I'm not sure if it's the same guy. They might have just punched that in separately. That'd be kind of cool. That's some like Jack White stuff. Seven Nation Army. Let's go to the piano. You're first introduction to the whole song. We may never know. We may never know. Who is playing the piano? Well, there's four names associated with piano. And I don't hear four pianos. So it's Founts Mazzell and Freddie Paren who are both co-writers of the song. They might be on piano for it. Later, version, like later liner notes of reissues have included their name. As is Clarence McDonald and Joe Sample from the Jazz Crusaders. Oh, well. Not really sure who's on this track. Anyone out there in One Song Nation land who's certain who knows who it is. Please let us know in the comments. But let's listen to that iconic glissando intro. And there's the jump, jump loop right there. Did you hear it? Here, I'll point it out. Chris Ross will make you. Chris Ross. Chris Ross will make you jump. Rick Ross will make you. Rick Ross. Yeah, that's a crazy loop. I just found that little chunk right there. Is that your main to pre-produce that one? You mean to pre? That's right, that's right. The ripped off, the ripped off DJ Mugs, apparently. There's a whole backstory with a house of pain coming up with their song "Jump Around" and shopping it around to rough house records who turned it down. So that germane du pre could take the jump idea and turn it into the cross-line. Oh, you should be the idea of jump. Yeah. Man, there was a Dan Haley and so on called jump. Nobody owns jump. But that's why at the end of "Jump Around" they're dissing rough houses. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Joe Nicoli. Get the bow set, point. No, I remember that. Yeah. Ever last had a lot of issues with a lot of people. Yeah. But as a person from Atlanta, I can tell you how proud us kids were that some other Atlanta kids had an international hit. That was such a big problem. That was pretty cool. Yeah. So I'll just talk a little bit about the chords because there's a lot of chords in this song. In the first two bars of the four bars of the verse, which I'll now play for you, you're hearing basically just one to four. Pretty simple. But in the third and fourth bars, we go through seven chords. So let's listen to that knowing what you're about to hear. First half is simple. Second half. Little bonkers. Two chords. Now we're going to cycle three, seven chords. Again, four bars of a pop song on AM radio in 1968 and we're jumping around a lot. But when we get to the chorus. Don't say that. Ever last is going to come for you. No. He owns the word "Jump." He owns "Jump Around" for sure. You're right. I shouldn't mess around with him. But in the chorus, we have this chorus with 15 fricking chords. One per beat. Count them out loud. Here we go. Starting with. Oh, baby, you know I don't change. I'm gonna beat that beat. Back to one. I think I miscounted it. I'll do it one more time so we get it right. Here we go. You're saying every note is a different chord. Yeah. We're cycling through. I'll tell you what the chords are. Five suspended, six, five, four. I won't tell you all the chords. But basically each note is. Some of them are part of the chord. You know what though? I mean, the way the chord changes work too. It's like technically you can simplify the number of chords by not including suspensions and spicy notes like that. But like if you look up a transcription, on the piano, you'll hear 15 different chords. I'll play it for you first in the context of the song and then isolate the piano. Here we go. I lost count. Here we go again. It does sound crazy. And some of those are harmonized thanks to the bass lines. I'll play them together. I like the one that was isolated too, because it sounds crazy. It's like a person going, "La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. It's all over the map. To my untrained public school education. No, stop it with that. It is crazy, but it's like, you don't notice it until you notice it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just makes it hooky. It's like when you, I used to be an aquapella group. And sometimes the note that you needed to hit seems so counterintuitive. But then when the other notes were added to it, it sounded perfect. That's a great analogy. You're reminding me of when Jimmy Jam was on the show, talking about telling Janet what note to Sinka when she's doing her own harmonizing herself. Meaning there isn't a group of singers over the microphone. She was doing one note at a time and she's like, where is this going? And it wasn't until like the third or fourth take, where she could hear the blame. Oh, I know where this is, that's, that's really the magic of being in the studios when you can be doing something like, are you sure there's what you want in the year bag? You're like, ah, exactly the magic of multi-track record. Absolutely. I love what you just played. Yeah. Where are some other places at the base and the piano or having like this little dance, the singer play. I'm so glad you asked. Okay, so that whole ABC versus I want you back confusion. Yeah, happens in this dancing part in the post course. This is the dance between the piano and the base is the piano is doing this. No, not ABC. And the base is doing this. That's off the base. Wow. That's been the road as you go. You have to, you have to. Let's hear that same thing again with the drums too. They're all doing different. They're all doing something different, rhythmically. All three of those parts. It's so good. Yeah, it's so good. It's so separated. You know, what's going on? The Marvin Gaye song from two years later. I think just won another award for like the greatest R&B song of all time. And I feel like there's just something about the spacing. You can hear the room. Yeah, you know, there's congos over here. There's there's drum over here and the snare's doing that. We're a syncopated thing. The piano is doing its own thing. Like there's just that's the joy of having multiple people contributing to a song and not just working off the squares. So glad you're saying that. And you're kind of to build on what you're saying. I'm realizing like the corporation quote, you know, they wrote the song. They arranged the song, but I wonder how many of these so individual contributions of these incredibly talented players. You just wonder who decided to make all these pieces into a lot like that. We'll probably never we may never know who exactly decided to make the end of the snare syncopation where it was while the base did what it did with huge amount of space in between. I don't. I want you back. And then we have that piano part there who decided genius big decisions being made by these musicians, and they probably got one check. That's right. They were paid for the day for the day hundred bucks. No, none of the publishing not to like ruin the splits that we'll be coming too later. But these guys aren't in the publishing. Let's face it. I hear strings on this song. Lush Motown era strings. Let's hear some strings. I'll give you some context. Here comes the chorus. The best part. Come on. Fighting. That's so beautiful and crazy. Beautiful, classy. It's so classy. That's the exact. It sounds expensive. It sounds expensive. It does not sound like they couldn't do that on still town. Let's do it before and after. I'll take out I'll take out the strings and do the rest of the rhythm section. All the other instrument parts. Listen to what that sounds like. It's not going to sound terrible. Mind you. But it won't sound as classy. I didn't even realize there's so much going on there. I didn't realize they do that. Like I didn't even notice the melody there. Absolutely. Can you humor me? Could you do just the drums and strings? Oh, great idea. Let's do that. I guarantee you, unless you were in the studio that day, you've never heard this combo. So great. We have some strings are just mirroring the descending bass line and the other ones are producing these. It's like a shell over there or something. It's like that lower register string in there. Yeah, let's do it in the descending period. It's like, it might be cello and bass. Yeah. (upbeat music) - So beautiful. So high class to your point. - Yeah. - That would be one of my absolute favorite parts of the song if it weren't for Michael's vocals. Which we have arrived at the part of the show that I think a lot of you have been desperately waiting for. - Just fast forwarded to this moment. Let's face it. It is a podcast. - Hey. - Don't do that. Just listen to the whole thing. It's all gold. Let's start from his first riff. There's a particular riff I want to hear. Now I'm using riff as singers talk about riffs. There's a riff later in the song that I definitely want to hear. But let's start at the beginning. (humming) Just let my tune out. (humming) - That's an 11-year-old singing like, an old wise, you know, wise and singing. - No, I'm sure it's an 11, could hit those notes. And that's why, you know why? Because I've been so kind to them. I've been such a kind father. - That's true. - I wish I, you know, just a little of abuse. - They don't have enough pain in their life to make great art. Is that what you're saying? - I'm just saying, my belt holds my pants up and it's robbed them of their singing careers. (laughing) - Okay. You'll never be Joe Jackson. - So this will never be played in the UK. You can't make those kind of jokes. Wow, that sounds fantastic already. Let's hear the, these opening, almost all these lyrics are so famous that I don't think we have to break down the meaning of the lyrics. They're pretty self-explanatory. I love it because he's singing about grown man stuff. But he's got this baby voice. - I know he's 11. What does he know about heartbreak? He wants to go back. How long were they together? When? - He's, he's singing like he already has some written-do or something. (laughing) Who's trying to just 11-year-old have written? Let's hear a little bit of the opening verse. ♪ When I had you to myself ♪ ♪ I didn't want you around ♪ - The blues, baby. ♪ Those pretty faces always made you stand out in a crowd ♪ ♪ But someone picked you from the bunch ♪ ♪ When the glass was all it took ♪ ♪ Now it's much too late for me to take a second look ♪ - That's what it is. It's the disconnect between it being kind of like bluesy delivery. (laughing) And him being 11. - He's 11. - Yeah, he's 11. - He's 11. You know, I could be wrong. It almost sounds like, you know, sometimes you can, you can hear a singer smiling through the lyrics. - Yeah. - Here, I feel like he's dancing in the booth. - Oh, interesting. - And you know what? I hope that that's not a scene in the movie. And I'm not like- - It is a scene in the movie. - It is a scene where you're like, "Hey, Michael, don't dance in the booth." - Right, 'cause he keeps moving away from the microphone. - Yeah, it says, yeah. - But what's weird is whether he was moving on this take or not, I just, I can feel the move in his voice, you know what I mean? Even if he's fighting the urge to move, you feel the move. - That seems like, you know, it's a movie. I'm not gonna say I believe everything in the movie, but that seems like the kind of thing in 11-year-old might need to be told like- - Yes. - The first time in the recording. - Or a grown man recording something for his TV show. (laughing) - Have you gotten that note? - Stop dancing, D. (laughing) - Oh, now you're D, okay. Before I try to call you that. You're like, no, full name, all the else. - I'm using shorthand, man. But no, you just feel so much movement. You feel so much when you hear these vocals. Let's keep it going. Here comes the chorus, y'all. ♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance. ♪ ♪ Won't you please let me back in your heart. ♪ ♪ Oh, darling, I was glad to let you go. ♪ ♪ But now since I see you in his arms. ♪ ♪ Yes, I do now. ♪ - Now, you gotta hear my, I gotta hear my, oh, oh, oh, baby. - Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. And then we'll plug in the background, though, 'cause he's doing the response to the song. - Oh, I definitely was gonna ask you about that, okay, cool. ♪ Yes, I do now. ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, baby. ♪ (laughing) ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah. ♪ ♪ Na, na, na, na. ♪ - You wanna hear a plug-in with the BGVs? - Yes, yes. - Then we get the call. - Who's doing those background vocals? - So credited with vocals on this song are Michael Jackson. - Yep. - Tito, Jackie, and Germain, and Marlon all get backing vocal comments. - Right. But there's also a couple names in addition to them, Keith Washington and Lutie Washington. - Lutie Washington? - Lutie Washington. - Lutie Washington is an amazing character. - Yeah, I'm not really good. Oh my gosh, I didn't know he was a singer. I didn't know he did background vocals. - Where would I know Lutie Washington for? - Lutie Washington was a lot of, he's in house party. He's in-- - Oh really? - Kidlay? - He was shuffle. Yes, no, dude, that guy, I think he was, I think he was on the richer prior show way back when, dude, you know this guy's face. Look up, Lutie Washington. - Okay. - He's actually, I know for a fact, he was born in Indiana. So maybe he had a family connection or something there. We will find out. He dies in Eaglewood. He died quite a while ago, maybe right now. - This guy's face looks really familiar. - He's so funny. - Character, he's so funny. I don't know exactly who this guy is. I love it. - I love it. - He's in fat, he's in the, Michael, he's in the, we're not yet in the upper fat. - We're not yet in the upper fat. - Oh my gosh. - He's the fat guy eating pizza, right? - He's the fat guy eating pizza. - Oh man, man, stop it. - You ain't down with us no more. You ain't fat, you ain't fat, you ain't nothing. You ain't nothing. - How did we not know that he was singing on "I Want Your Bat?" - That is incredible. - Incredible. - That's the most important thing we've done today. - Hey, if you learn nothing else. - This is the number one fact of today's episode. - This is the fact. - The guy from fat, the fat video. - All kinds of Michael Jackson connections from Indiana to fat. - He's on "The Wayans Show" too. - Dude, I'm telling you, this guy. - We can be geeky dog. - Prolific, this guy was prolific. Yeah, he sometimes got called big man. He's that guy. - I think I love Loody Washington. - This is fantastic. - All right, let's hear some background vocals. - Yeah, I'll do the call and response in the chorus here. ♪ I want you back ♪ ♪ Yes, I do now ♪ ♪ I want you back ♪ ♪ Ooh, ooh, baby ♪ ♪ I want you back ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ I want you back ♪ ♪ La, la, la, la, tra ♪ - Those guys show up a little earlier too. Let's listen to, I see some other backing vocal stuff. Let's see what it is. ♪ Show you that I love you ♪ ♪ Back in your heart ♪ - All these great classic do-op call and response. Here's another one. ♪ Let you go, baby ♪ - Yeah. - Just a nice little harmonized guy. - I just thought those were just the brothers, but now to know that they had a couple other voices in there, including Loody Washington. When we do this show, sometimes we stumble upon a fact while we're recording the show. It should be mentioned. - Stop presses. - Loody Washington, he's not on here randomly. He was one of the co-founders of Steel Town Records. Is that the first label for his first song? - Yes, exactly. - Big boy. - He's one of the reasons why Big Boy was released. And he's had a big role in sort of launching the Jackson 5. So this is a Renaissance man. He actually has some of his own songs, which I'm going to listen to after this recording. So he was a recording artist. He founded a record label. And he had a great career as a character actor. He should, if he wasn't dead, he should be the third host of this show. You know what I'm always like? - I would love to have him. - He's a collegeist DJ, like we have all these titles. He's that guy. - He's that guy. - Capital T, capital G. - Let's hear that second verse. ♪ Trying to live without your love ♪ ♪ Just one low sleepless night ♪ ♪ Let me show you girl ♪ ♪ That I know wrong from right ♪ ♪ Ever in sweet you walk on ♪ ♪ I'll it just stay on the ground ♪ ♪ Follow in the girl ♪ ♪ I didn't even wanna ride ♪ - He's singing like he understands these very adult emotions. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? It's so weird. It's like a little blues man inside a tiny boy's butt. I think that was a big part of Motown back then. It's like everybody had to have a gimmick. You know, like Stevie's, he's like, I got one guy who's blind. (laughing) Amazing boy, he's freaking blind. And then this other guy's saying, like he's 48, but he's a child. Give us the bridge, man. As James Wright would say, take us to the bridge. - All right, we got a bunch of bubble, bubble, bubbles. And listen, if you can hear Ludi Washington in here. ♪ Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum Well, yeah, the low, the bass, because he's big. So that was, I took out Michael's lead line, and let's hear that separated. I'm reminded of our D. So James Brown right there, that was So James Brown. So James Brown, and I'm also reminded though of our Gorilla's episode, because I'm hearing the same thing, where you would think that the producer would like generously let this poor singer do two separate takes for those two parts, because it's hard to do. That's the one good thing about all those repetitions. The best always say you just got to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse and do it over and over and over. And you know why? Because live, you don't have the luxury of being able to overdub it. So he had to learn how to sing both of those parts live later anyway. Maybe the philosophy for recording was, look, if you're going to do it on stage, you're going to do it in the recording booth, too. By the way, I can say, you know, we all know that Mike was a perfectionist, but this is very early in his career. There was one bum, one bum that's actually flat. Oh, yeah. I'm actually surprised by it. You heard it too. I heard it too. Let's listen together. Buh-buh-buh-buh! AHHHHH! (singing) - Yeah, there's a little bit of a play. - Because he's having to go between these two parts. - Oh listen, I can't do it. - If I were producing to say nothing of an 11 year old, I would generously be like, you know, let's make sure that you feel comfortable getting the part. - Yeah, I'm only bringing up in the context of, we know that he was a perfectionist. And that that would never, he would never let that take fly once he had the power in the studio that he eventually had. That's what the only thing. - But in the mix, let's just listen back to where that is in the song, and you don't even notice it. (singing) - I could just went by and I didn't even notice it. - Yeah, and who would? We don't, we do not care, Michael, we love you. - So to your point, like one of the techniques, especially in like late 60s, before we have the Pro Tulera, for masking imperfect vocals is doubling or tripling or quadrupling. - Just putting a layer on top. - That's right. So we hear two layers at that point, and that's part of what helps bury it in the mix. That's probably why you don't notice it. And by the way, he only had to hit that last all I need. One time like that, to go into freaking music history. - Yes. - And he might have been like, hey, can I just, can we save that great take and just cover up that one sort of flat ball? - That could be right. It could be right. - This is my favorite part of the song, "Bolefully." - Okay, let's hear it. - Play us the part that comes next. ♪ Oh baby, I was blind to let you go ♪ - Woo, that is a rhyme, pretty easy, man. ♪ And as I, yes, I tune the heart. ♪ - That's what I'm positive. - That he became legend very few later. And in 1969, I hear the James Brown of that, too. - Yes, yes, it's very James. ♪ Yes, I tune the heart. ♪ - The same thing, like later Michael, 'cause I have the things I can prove it, he'll have a separate layer where he's already done the lead vocal, the harmonies then he goes back and does a separate, "Huh, track." With "Oh!" and a "Has." - Woo! - Why am I singing so much today? I'm sorry, guys. No, please cut. - Never apologize. - But I'm getting caught up in the Michael Magic. - Can we go to the end of the song? - Yeah. ♪ Oh baby, I need a one most chance ♪ ♪ I say you got a lot of love, you ♪ - That was not only James Brown. That was Eddie Murphy's James Brown. (laughing) ♪ You got a lot of love, you ♪ ♪ And most chance ♪ ♪ I say you got a lot of love, you ♪ ♪ Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow ♪ ♪ I want you back, I want you back ♪ (laughing) - I wish it didn't fade out. I wish it was one of those things. One of the sweetest episodes we've ever done was our "Algreen" episode. Because he just went on for like two minutes. - With the post-fade out. - This is all stuff that you wouldn't know unless you had the stems because it's just fade out. Here obviously it's a full fade. But I'd love to have like, you can tell he's going off. He's got some ad-libs. - Yeah, he might have gone in early version of that. (laughing) - Is that more in the tank? - I don't know. - Why cut 'em off, you fools? (laughing) - What a bunch of, that is just a magical recording. - What can you tell us about the publishing on the song, "I Want You Back" by The Jackson Five? - Well, it's a fair split between those four songwriters from the corporation. - Yes, yes, Barry got his money. - Thank God, I was so worried about him. 25% of each for Barry Gordy, Alfonso and Myzel, Freddie Perron, and Dennis Luciae, AKA Digg Richards. - There's a good name change for you right there. - He's like, I want this fridge set in. - Dennis, that's not cool. - So much magic in that session. And the magic lives on. Like this song continues to rock. It doesn't rock clubs the same way that it did maybe 20 years ago. But it definitely, if you're doing a wedding, if you're doing like anything where there's like an age range and you need something that's gonna please a lot of people, it still works as magic. It was instrumental in launching the career of The Jackson Five. But it's been instrumental in launching the career of other people. People forget Kanye West, when he was coming up, used this song in the song "The He Produced For Jay-Z" on the Blueprint album, a song called "H For The Is-O." - I mean, you could hear the sample clear as day and day. - It's in that bass line. - Absolutely. - And the strings are in there too, yeah. - And by the way, like, it's not even just the music sometimes. Sometimes it's the lyrics that get, you know, brought back, whether you want to call that. - Do you call that? - An homage. Or, I think there's a word that you sometimes whisper. - Long pause. (laughs) Interpolation. - Why don't we hear the interpolation that was done by the Tories B.I.G. (upbeat music) - I got that good girl, you think, you know? - Oh, I got that good girl, you think, you know? - I got that good girl, you think, you know? - That's the Tories B.I.G. One more chance, the original album version, often ready to die. And of course, that's just an interpolation of the course. - One of these days, my career is headed in a direction. Well, one day I will be at the head of the council of interpolation decision making versus evocation. I really do think that one day I would like to form a body that meets in the star chamber and looks at examples of stuff that sounds similar and decides what it is. - Uh-huh. - My judgment on that one would be not interpolation. Nobody owes any money, that's an homage. Straight up. - It's an homage. - Straight up homage. - And hip hop is a weird place because people use other people's lyrics. - Holy, it's part of the culture. - All the freaking times. - As a reference to something, it's a lineage, it's one of the heritage, it's to call out something that then people will go discover, maybe that they didn't know before. - Well, be sure to join us for part two of this two part episode on the Jackson Family as singers. When we talk about, can you feel it? The third single off of their triumphant album from 1981. We're gonna talk about the path that they took from 1969, this scrappy young outfit from Gary and Iana, and we're gonna talk a little bit about, they're sort of in between years, like in the '70s, when they're working with Gambling Huff and a lot of other producers, and they're producing really great stuff, but it's not selling quite at the level of their earliest stuff. We're gonna go through all that into Off the Wall era Michael and then Lana Triumph because I think that, can you feel it? It's just a great song, it's enjoying a moment on TikTok, and we wanna talk about it. - That's a great point. It's easy to forget that in 1969, they come out with a bang. In the '70s, they are superstars, but they have, it's hit or miss through the '70s. - It's hit or miss, it turns out there's some albums, 'cause they're still dropping a album almost every year. And there's some albums that do good, and there's some albums that don't. - Great ones, I love like Dancing Machine. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah, stuff like that. - Laying on the Boogie. - There's some great stuff in there, and we're gonna talk about Show Me The Way, but it's important to note that some of those albums didn't sell well. They leave Motown, they have to change their name from the Jackson Five to the Jackson's. We're gonna get it all of that in part two. So stick around for that, and we'll have even more surprises on that episode. - More Loody Washington's? Who knows? Never know, like I was prolific. - As always, you can find me on Instagram @Diallo and on TikTok @DialloRiddle. - And you can find me on Instagram @LUXXURI and on TikTok @LUXRIXX. - And you can follow our podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm proud to say @WonsonPodcast for exclusive content. You can watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube and Spotify. Just search for One Song Podcast. We'd love it if you'd like to subscribe. - Also, be sure to check out the One Song Spotify playlist for all the songs we've discussed in our episodes. You can find the link in our episode description. - And we have a Patreon now. Patreon.com/DialloLuxury should check it out. It's a lot of fun. We do all kinds of crazy stuff. - We're nuts over there, bonkers. - And because it's behind a paywall, we get into a lot of really, really fun stuff. You should definitely check that out. If you made it this far, you're officially part of the One Song Nation. Show us some love, give us five stars, leave a review and send this episode to a fellow music fan. It really helps keep the show going. All right, luxury, help me in this thing. - I'm producer DJ Songwriter, musicologist and every Friday night from 10 PM until midnight after Henry Rollins' KCRW DJ luxury. - And I'm actor, writer, director and sometimes DJ The Yellow Rittle. - This has been One Song, we'll see you next time. - This episode is recorded at KCRW Headquarters, engineering by Katie Gilchress, produced, edited and mixed by Eric Kicks. We'll see you next time.