The Interviews (ft. Bob Odenkirk and Aline Brosh McKenna)

[Music] Hello, Paul. I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to another episode of the Interviews. The spin-off show that rounds up are set down with cinema's finest. It's all good, man. And speaking of which, Bob Bowdenkirk played Saul Goodman, Walter White's slimy lawyer on Breaking Bad and better call Saul, two of the greatest TV series of all time. As a lot of TV stars do, he's pivoted into making movies, but few could have seen this particular pivot coming because rather than playing Saul Goodman types on the big screen or doing out-and-out comedy as you might expect, from an American sketch comedy legend he is the co-star and co-creator of Mr. Show, Loma Davis Cross. Bowdenkirk has become a Jerry Action Hero kicking ass and taking names in the likes of nobody and its sequel and now, Ben Wheatley's normal which opens today, Friday, May 15th, in which he plays a small town sheriff who finds himself facing off against, well, a small town. Bowdenkirk came to London this week and I went along to talk to him in a swanky hotel suite about becoming an action hero late in the day working with Bowdenkirk, comedy and movies, you know, that sort of thing. It was a lovely chat with a lovely man. Oh, and while this isn't a spoiler chat per se, he does heavily hint at the fate of a supporting character here, so maybe tread with caution. Oh, and one more thing, he also, because we were talking about horror movies, he also talks about his reaction to Suck Craigers' weapons and he may be kind of spoils that movie as well. And he's saying weapons, maybe skip that bit once we start talking about horror movies, all set. Enjoy. Bowdenkirk star of normal. How are you? I'm great. I love this movie. I love watching it. I love watching it with an audience. I get to watch it again tonight. This is probably my 10th or 11th time and I'll have, and I, you know, obviously I don't need to. They always say, do you want to go eat? Do you want to go? I go, no, I want to sit in that crowd and I want to watch. I'm not going to say what happens to Henry Winkler, but I want, I want to see that happen. I was going to say he's a favorite bit. Yeah. You know, it's such a moment where the movie shifts tone. Yeah. And there's a couple of them in here. Yeah. And it goes, it just like, it's like a rocket boost moment where we just supercharge this thing. And the movie has a number of those and it's just a great fun to watch with an audience. What's the reaction? Usually like just people go and ape shit. They laugh and they, well, they shout and scream and they're, you know, I mean, they're frightened and scared and they laugh. Yeah. A little around. A little around. So they're a little bit not a pole, but they're, they're a little sad. It's Henry Winkler. It's Henry Winkler. It's Henry Winkler. It's Henry Winkler. It's Henry Winkler. I'm not sure what he's doing. It's a hell of a thing. I do want to spoil it, but we, you know, people can glean from our conversation that's something bad. I want to give spoilers. Of course, of course. It's great fun. It's an amazing, amazing moment. And the fact that it happens, I won't say anymore. Where it happens in the movie matters too, because it, um, this, this, uh, film is such a, so we've got so many surprises in it. And the way they're placed by Derek Colstad, who wrote the screenplay and the way they're prepped and presented by Ben Wheatley, who directed, really do surprise the audience. They don't see them coming. They really don't. It's, it's a ton of fun. If you had said to me six, seven years ago that one of my favorite sub-shonras in movies was Bob Bowton Kirk killing a whole bunch of fools out of laughed in your face. Yeah. Bob, you must have felt the same way, right? Oh, this is absolutely wonderful. I'm expecting the same way. And in fact, the training that I did for, um, nobody, um, which I looked at as free training when you get older, you should try to stay in shape. It helps to have somebody coach you through it because, you know, what do you know? And so I had this guy, Daniel Bernhardt, who, oh my god, no, from, oh my god, every action movie you can't even shit out of him in, in nobody. Yeah. And he's just a great person. Yeah. And he trained me and the whole time I'm doing it, I'm thinking, well, we'll probably never make this movie. And if we make it, what a funny thing to have gone to this place from where I started. Yeah. And how will I, how much I will surprise my friends and people like you who know pop culture and saw that I was on Larry Sanders and, you know, me from those things to have gone to this place. And even obviously if it doesn't work, that will make perfect sense. But if it does work or even if it kind of works, it'll be a delight. Yeah. A delight is absolutely right. What about your friends and comity? How have they taken to this new action hero phase? I mean, the reaction is flabbergasted. Like I broke their brains. I gave them aneurysms. And I knew that I would. And the whole time I'm exercising in the gym, hours and hours and hours and months and months and months, I'm thinking, boy, I got it. If I can make this happen, I'm imagining the delight on the face of Robert Smigel, Dana Carvey, David Spade, Adam Sandler, Jack Black. You know, I'm imagining David Cross, all these friends of mine going, what? Watching it and going, what? There's no way I'm seeing what I'm seeing. And of course, you're in that category in your way because you're familiar with the culture and what I've done and how that allude to Chris, it is that I could find myself to that place and then pull it off, which again was never a guarantee. It's fascinating because I adore breaking bad and better call Saul. And if going back and rewatching it as I frequently do, it's a shame to not watch to see Saul Goopman and he's not snappy and ex and blowing punters away. You mean you wish that it happened? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, the two of them self-druck. Look, the notion of doing an action movie was because of, of better call Saul and the degree to which I got to do earnest scenes in that show that weren't Saul being a con man or, but, but honestly needing and wanting things and not getting them and then figuring another way to try to achieve those things. And to me, I was like, that's an action character. They basically are indefatigable and they have their heart on their sleeve. And when I say that about Saul, you might think, well, is this hard, honestly? Well, if you watch Breaking Bad, it is. It is. At many junctures. And then in an overall way in the journey of the show, you get closer and closer to who the guy is in his heart. And so I just, I saw it as a, just a, I kind of a half step. And that half step is guns and, and punches, you know, fists and guns. And so I thought that's all I'm adding to this. It's just a side step. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a little bit more. This visual action, you know, sequences. And I was willing to train for them. And here we are. Three movies later. Absolutely. You and Derek Colston had clearly clicked. Yeah. I love Derek. He, he cares and knows action film the way I know sketch comedy. He spent his life since he was 10 years old watching and thinking about action movie making. I did that with Monty Python and sketch comedy. So I know when to just shut up and do what Derek tells me to do. And, and even though there are so many moments in these films where the, the film, the story, the characters sort of leave earth's orbit. Yeah. And then enter into a comically broad place. Yeah. I can just trust it because it's, it's what Derek knows we need to do. And that's what he has learned. And so yeah. So I just were a great pair. And I, of course, my time doing Saul Goodman and some of the, some of the drama films that have done has made me intrigued and interested in finding the backstory of characters. So in a movie like Normal, you list these. And the question I posed to Derek of, why is this guy so reticent to investigate this town? That clearly has got something going on with it. The previous sheriff died and it doesn't make any sense. And there's money, they shouldn't have that kind of money. And there's guns and there's no need for that, money guns. And even I know it's America, but trust me. Even in America, there's no need for the level of munitions that this small town has. And there's all these indicators that there's something awry. And why is Ulysses an older guy who's clearly seen life? You know, putting things away in drawers and shutting the drawers and walking away and not wanting to know. It's fascinating because the movie is, I've talked to Ben about this movie and he made a Western, a modern Western. And it has this real slow burn. I mean, I love the first 30 minutes because you're really getting to know this guy and you're getting to set up all the different characters in the town. And you're also thinking it's an action movie. At some point, the shit is going to hit the fan. But that slow build really allows you to pay it off in interesting ways. The thing is, I don't think I would ever do an action movie that follows the rhythms of, as you point out, action movies. Yeah. I just don't think I would do it. In fact, I've been offered a couple scripts that are living that world. And I just, I'm not interested. If we're not going to take some time and we do in nobody, if we're not going to take, essentially, it's between 20 and 35 minutes. And find out who this guy is, find out what the world is he lives in, find out what's motivating him, find out what he's working against. Yeah. And then go ahead, and then I can do it. Then we can do action for the rest of the movie. Yeah. But I don't want to do that. Those traditional action films that there's plenty of guys who'll do them. This start with a big cold open, lots of devastation and destruction in the first five minutes. Right. A real grabber. In our defense, the opening, and this was one of my contributions, the Yakuza scene. And I wanted that for a couple of reasons. One, being if you thought you were here to see Bob Oden Kirk do a sweet, funny character, you right away warned that that's not what we're going to do, that there's going to be blood. Yeah. Yeah. Eventually. Eventually. And it's going to go to that level. So this movie's bloody. And there's deaths that are, I haven't seen the movie Final Destination, but there were a couple deaths in our film that Derek and Ben both said, this is a Final Destination kill. I know exactly what they're talking about. You do. Yeah, very much so. Cause Ben, I've known Ben for a while and he's a, he's a lovely guy, but with a, he's twisted. Yeah. He's very, very twisted. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys click immediately because you both have sketch comedy backgrounds? You sure did. Yeah. In fact, probably within one minute of talking to him on the zoom that we did that we were like, this is our man. Now, we'd also seen Free Fire and some of his other films. I was particularly motivated by Free Fire because of the character and the, the acting and the, the degree to which Ben as a director is also like me wanting that texture in his characters. I'm not interested in doing the action movie that doesn't have that dimension. Yeah. And did you, did you bond over that over that that? Sure. I mean, we bonded over Ben constantly making jokes. And you know what I mean? He's always making wise cracks and, and, and also he's very dead. Just his confidence. Yes. He's very deadpan. Yeah. Uh, for me, um, the action, uh, the horror aspect was new. Um, there are deaths in this film normal that I perceive as being straight out of a horror film. Yeah. And the, I don't, I guess I don't want to spoil it for people, but the old lady. Um, I'll just say the old lady. Just anything. Yeah. For a few people, and to me, in this movie, I don't really know that stuff. I don't, I don't watch it. And so that's Ben Wheatley. Has it intrigued you though, Bob? Are you thinking it doesn't treat me? Let's watch that stuff now. So look, my daughter, Aaron, who's 25 now, she just loves those movies and she's loved them since she was like 10. I don't, I don't know what the attraction is. I, I did see weapons. Okay. So what do you think? I thought it was good. Um, I didn't like that in the end. It was just a, a lady who was doing, um, yeah. Which he, which is, yeah. That was not a, uh, I thought it was going to be a metaphor for school shootings and like, and then it goes on it. Yeah. Um, and it was just about a witch, it goes in a different direction at the end. Yeah. Absolutely. Ditches any thematic, um, pigness or a resonance, uh, and says, no, no, it's just a little lady who thinks she's a witch. Or is a witch? He's a witch, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. So Slant hasn't, that hasn't, so that was a tie. It was tied to watch. That was kind of, that was like, uh, a bummer. Okay. All right. Maybe dive back into horror another time. Yeah. I'm sure Ben's put together a list or he could put together a list of movies that I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like the movie Repulsion. Okay. That's a rocker. I can't really name too many other horror films that I've even seen. So what were the movies that, that, that lit your fire growing up for the comedy films? American graffiti was a film that was the first movie that I saw that really got me and made me see what a movie can be. And, uh, trying to town is my favorite film, uh, Lahain, um, Annie Hall, um, Zellig, um, Hoosiers. Is there, is there a cohesive, uh, quality to those films that I love so much? I, they're about, um, I mean, I also love Jackie Chan police story. Yeah. I can see that. I love playing trains and automobiles. I can see that. So look, look, I, I'm not like, I'm not a set of file in a way that I'm delighted by just excellent storytelling, um, in the film world, I think, I think if you don't sit with the characters and I get to know people and feel affection for them, I don't really care how adept you are at, um, the, you know, the, um, formula is a filmmaking. Now look, yeah, you might think I'm saying that I'm not the biggest Kubrick fan in the world. And if you're thinking that, well, you're a real jerk who's right. I would never make that accusation, Bob. So you're not. I mean, if I'm trying to characterize what I love in film, yeah. And I recognize how unbelievably proficient he is. Yeah. And how mechanically, uh, pristine he is. I have to say, you know, it, it, it, I'm, and yet somehow I would rather watch Hoosiers. What is it I'm liking? What is it that I'm wanting? You know what I mean? That one connection you want an emotional connection. Yeah, which is really interesting because you come from, you know, this sketch comedy background and sketch comedy is just get in, get out. Okay, but hold on a second. One of my favorite things about Mr. Show, uh, we didn't do it every sketch and we didn't even do it every episode. But we got the audience to feel sorry for characters quite a bit. We got that, uh, reaction out loud reaction, probably three or four times in four seasons. And that's a big deal in it. You don't hear that on Saturday night live. That's a real thing. And you don't even probably money Python does that a few times. Yeah. Where you just feel bad for that person. You genuinely sad for that, how dumb that character is and how much they're going to be, uh, abused by the world. Well, tell you what, the character you played on, I think you should leave. Yes. Actually, that is a real pathos. Real pathos to that guy. A pathos, yeah. Which I loved. What we're talking about sketch comedy, my favorite Mr. Show sketch, uh, is the audition sketch. Yeah. That's a very good one. That's one of the all-time, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Such a beautiful concept. Yeah. of, of, of, of, Oh, well, you know, Sam, a top of the throat that sketch, one of the great sketch writers. And, uh, a joy to do, um, a lot of a hard thing to do because David had to do that sketch verbatim as written, no, of messing around. There's, he has, he does repeat himself exactly each time. Um, a very high level of, uh, writing and, uh, performing on his part, fun for me, just simply fun. And I love the sketch. Um, for film buffs, we didn't riff on films as much as we did on the Ben Stiller show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His Ben is so film obsessed. And I worked on the Woody Allen husbands and wives, or Frank Woody Allen's Frankenstein, which is husband and wives. Um, I haven't seen that one. I'll go check it out. It's good. Yeah. Uh, there's a lot of parody films on the Stiller, uh, show. But the, I think the best one is Woody Allen's Frankenstein. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Uh, Bob Bowden Kirk is been an absolute pleasure. I'm going to let you go. But thanks so much for your time. Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah. Okay. That was Bob Bowden Kirk. And normal is in cinemas right now, folks. It is a cracking time. The movie's really, really good action movie. We give it four stars. Go check it out. And you've probably already checked out the devil wears Prada too. The long awaited sequel to 2006 is the devil wears Prada, which through and half the way's idealistic young wannabe journalist into the world of high fashion magazine runway and pit it her against terrifying editor, Meryl Streep. Now the guy is back, back, back, including co-stars, Emily Blunt and Stanley Tucci, director David Frankl and writer, Alene Brochemakena. And it has been lapped up by audiences worldwide. So it is a perfect time to bring you this chat with McKenna, who popped on the soon recently to talk about the movie just before its release with our Helen O'Hara. Enjoy. Welcome to the MPAR podcast, Alene Brochemakena. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you. Congratulations on the film. Did you, did you expect to be back here 20 years later? You know, I didn't, but it's, it's a, you know, one of the things about being a writer, you don't have a regular workplace. You kind of, you go where the tide takes you and, um, didn't expect that we'd be back here, but here we are. I mean, it seems to be just, you know, people still completely love this story. And I think partly maybe that's because let's be honest, stories about women at work are under catered too. But I think also there is something about, there's, there's something very satisfying about seeing people do things well. We talk a lot in the MPAR podcast about competence porn and Miranda Priestley is. Exactly that. Yeah. Absolutely. So Andy, trying, you know, the book, it was, the book was a big hit. It took a, it took a while to figure out, um, how to, you know, transpose the book to the screen initially. And what's interesting is it isn't a, it's, it's, it's, if the book was written by somebody who really did work in that workplace. And so it had a veracity that I think readers could feel that we wanted to capture in the movie. And same thing with this, we really are trying to capture with some authenticity, what it's like to work with in the media at this time and how challenging that is. Really? I haven't noticed. I was good to say. I don't know, you know, anything about that. But, you know, the whole world has become, I've always had to be an entrepreneur. I've always had to find new jobs. Um, and, you know, sort of now all the workplaces have become Uber and DoorDash and, you know, work, work piecework and work for hire and, um, the idea of having a cozy, sinecure somewhere where you can lose money. And nobody bothers you. It's just doesn't happen anymore. And everyone has to pay their way. Um, but it's so it, in a, in a world where advertising doesn't mean it isn't the same. There's, you know, eyeballs and clicks and likes and views and engagement and all these other metrics. Al got people now say like, oh, what's on my algo? What's on your algo? Um, it's just a fascinating, completely different way of looking at what, what it means to communicate in journalism. It's completely different. Yeah. So was, was that the way back in? I mean, when did you guys start talking about this? I mean, David and I have been, for instance, the first movie came out and so we would talk frequently about, you know, how things were changing and how Hollywood was, you know, how our lives were changing. But then, you know, what would be happening to these characters? And, you know, I remember, I'm sure you remember getting on a plane with a stack of seven magazines. You know, and now I got on a plane with a tiny metal device, you know, and I'm, I'm reading my book on there. I'm, um, reading, well, quote unquote magazines. I'm reading quote, quote in his paper. I'm doing my crossword puzzle there. Um, and so we live in a completely different environment of non tangible things, where a brand really matters, but what is it? Yeah. What is it? What is, you know, and I grew up with, um, my, my parents would save the time magazines and they were, they were like big stacks of time magazines in our, um, den, and it's like, and, and now, as, as she says in the movie, you know, entire publications get deleted. Entire cultural institutions get deleted. Um, I also grew up with a giant world book in psych lapidia. Um, and as a kid, you know, I would take down the world book and read like G, and read the section on get go. I mean, that's ridiculous now, you know, and so just the idea of how information flows, power, fame, what's interesting, what a writer is, what a writer does. Those were all such interesting things to engage with. Yeah. And I guess it makes sense at this point that, that, all that turbulence and all that change might throw Andy and Miranda back together again, because I think David talks about this the other day, but like it, it wouldn't have made sense if they were back together a year later or two years later, you know, and you followed the usual sequel kind of rules. No, no, and, um, you know, we really weren't interested in it for a long time, and I think we felt like we had, as they say, dropped the mic on it. Um, and, but once we started thinking about the world and then, you know, one of the things that's unusual was I started talking to David first and then we talked to Merrill and then we brought it to the studio. It wasn't ordered by the studio. So, um, you know, in terms of, of a sequel's seeming like, quote unquote, cash grabs. If so, we, we gave them the, you know, we asked them, do you think there's cash to grab? We don't know. We just thought it was a good idea. The, one of the differences is that the first movie was made by Fox 2000, which was a division of 20th century Fox and Fox 2000 was known for doing literary adaptations. They did life of pie and other sort of like highbrow movies like they did walk the line and, and so was we were made in sort of a a female based somewhat literally oriented subsidiary of 20th century Fox and then that got bought by Disney and then 20th became part of Disney. So, we're making it for 20th for Disney. So, it's, but it's gone for being a Fox 2000 movie to a Disney movie and that's a completely different entity and it's also reflective and indicative of how the world has changed. But the way we, the people who made the movie are virtually identical. We're just working for a different corporate entity because of course, because everyone is, you know, because you sort of look up and say like, okay, wait, everybody works at companies where it's like, oh, who owns us now? Oh, okay, you know, so it's really been reflected in our experience because we made it at a place that was a little bit more like an artisanal cheese place. And then now we're, we're making it the same way. It's really still artisanal cheese. It's still really virtually the same folks, but we're making it for an entity that can take that and transfer it into Diet Coke and hairspray and stuff like that or something. Yeah. But I think Miranda herself would be very impressed with the marketing reach because she's had to pivot from being solely someone who thinks mostly about you know, beauty and design and high end concerns, fashion, obviously, to someone who's, who's had to, to stay alive, has had to figure out all this monetization and online presence and all those work without losing the sense of what she wants to do. And that's, that's really what's in parallel in this movie is, you know, Marl, not Marl, Miranda has managed to find a little place where she can still do what she wants to do in this digital age, but it's, it's getting pulled away from her. And it's getting, it feels like it's getting smaller, even, even if the metrics online are still good. It's a, it's a very different world. Tell me then about Andy as well. Like she's obviously made a name for herself. She's been working. She's been in journalism. She's been doing what she went off to do. But you know, that comes crashing down, no spoilers in the first few scenes. Yes. Well, as we were saying, you know, sometimes it's, and not not long. I mean, a lot of the stuff that I wrote that's in the movie was not happening when I wrote it, even though we made this very quickly. So, you know, the, the idea of like Washington in post-firing so many, that hadn't happened yet. A lot of the things that are in the movie that seem like they're pulled from the headlines, which you can't with the movie anyway 'cause the lead up time is so. They happened while we were making the movie. There were so many things that happened while we were making the movie that were in the script that Merrill would like to use me about being a witch. But I think we can see the trends. I just think we don't know what to do. And there's a speech that Benji, the character Benji has played by Justin Trudeau is such a, I think, brilliant performance that you have to kind of just let it come. You have to let it, you have to figure out where this new world is taking you and it's scary. - I really enjoyed that role. I was actually talking to someone who didn't realize it was Justin Thoreau until after the movie. I think he was watching the credits and was like, oh, yeah, people have said that. No, he did it, he disappeared. And one interesting thing about our cast is that a lot of the folks are also showrunners or writer directors, BJ, Patrick Bramble, Justin, Caleb here on as a content creator. So there's a lot of folks who have multiple jobs and but are also sort of writer creators. And that's always really fun for me to work with people who do a similar job because they completely understand what I'm doing and the exigencies of what I do and how I do it. And that was really fun to have a lot of writer pals on set. - What about the sort of core four, if you like, you know, nodule Emily Andi and Miranda, did they come in with requests for you or big, strong feelings about these characters? - Well, Emily had, this is really embarrassing but we didn't have a scene with all four of them. - Oh. - And she pointed that out when I first met, with her, when we first met with her and I felt very stupid. The scene that's in the conference room had three of them but not four of them. And so we added, I think Nigel was not in that. And I mean, they're all filled with great ideas, you know, from tiny lines to big moments to, and because we have a shorthand now where they feel like, you know, I'm not one of those, please say everything exactly is scripted or I'm gonna cross my arms and stamp my feet and cry. I want it to be a live experience. - You're not sorgoning at them. - I did 62 episodes of a television show where, you know, my approach is shoot it once exactly as written if possible and then, and pretty much we always did that and then you can play around because you're also trying to convey information if you throw out lines without shooting them, you'll often go back and go, oh wait, nobody said that that's specific piece of information and these actors are just very disciplined and very amazing at like getting what you need and then playing and they're just all people I really enjoy playing with. Like even a little thing like Stanley had the line where he said, he bought her a Monet and then I just said to him, do you wanna say, and Clint, just because Clint is just a funny word and any word that starts with K is funny and so and then so he just like doubles back and says, and Clint, so just little things like that, I enjoy. - I mean, you compare, I think it was you that compared the first film to Wall Street which is something I have repeated many times since 'cause I thought that was exactly right. Did you have a sort of like comparison or a model in mind for this? 'Cause it is kind of almost like two gunslingers coming teaming up to take on. - No, um, broadcast is one of my favorite movies. And I don't know that I, I mean, I don't know that I thought about it specifically except in so far as broadcast news, Tootsie, Jerry McGuire, are sort of like the workplace comedies that I have come back to and watch multiple times broadcast news is also about an industry and an inflection point where the visual is taking over from the informational and where handsome people are becoming more important than, you know, and that's a movie that, you know, I could quote lots of that movie, but the contrast between the handsome guy and Albert Brooks and that she is in the corner, she is in the crosshairs of this inflection point. I think that there's a connection there. - That makes sense. I feel like that's one of the most influential movies I've ever made. I feel like so many people I speak to, the site that is an influence. It's an incredible movie. - Yeah, yeah, it really is. And Tootsie, for me is my number one in terms of like how well I know it and what I like about Tootsie is that he is wrong right from the beginning. When you see him in the beginning and he's talking to the students, he's being sort of a pompous ass. And I know that this is not primarily how people think about it, but in the first part of the movie, she's wrong. She is, she thinks she's better than it and everyone and there's a little smugness to her. And that's the, to me, there's the DNA of Tootsie where he thinks he's above something and then he realizes there are humans there. - Very much so. So do you think you'll be back in another 20 years to explore the state of journalism from the beginning? - I mean, I don't have 20 years. I don't know. It's funny because I was the youngest on the creative team, not on screen. On screen, the gals were younger, but I was sort of one of the younger people on the creative team the first time and I still get to be the young person now, just great. I never feel younger. - Yeah, it was only your, what was it? Third film or something at that point? - It was my third film. Yes, and I can't say that the first two were international blockbusters, but I had gotten a good amount of experience, but I, you know, the magic for me was that David and I just have a shared vision. You know, he's, we have some surface things, not in common, but otherwise a lot in common. And the movies, both movies were built in conversation with each other and we have different points of view, different temperaments, but that's sort of the, one of the luckiest work blind dates I've ever been on. (laughs) - Long way to continue to be. So I wanted to just finish up this, at the end of the year at least, by asking you just about, you know, people's reaction to, maybe people who've seen it to this movie, but also just the long tail of the last one, you know, what's been surprising about the way that people have talked to you about it over the years, what theories or anything of people come up with a reaction that you didn't expect? - Well, it's so rewatchable for people, and I don't know what that is, 'cause I have those movies for myself, but that's something that you can't quite, you know, I don't know, I'm not sure why that's a movie that people will watch all the way through if it pops back up, but I know I have mine that are like that. And, you know, sometimes they're the most unexpected things, but there's something familiar, but surprising, I think it's a combination of familiar and surprising. But I get, you know, happy about how many young women respond to this movie. Obviously, we have a lot of support from the gay community, and I trust their tastes so much in so many areas. And then, you know, it's funny how many men want to come up to me and say, well, that's sometimes tell me they like the movie, but boy, people really like to say, oh my wife, my sister, my daughter of a blah, and love that movie, and I just, I always take it as them telling me they liked it too. (laughs) I think that's right. Thank you so much for joining us, and best of luck with the movie. - Thank you. - Okay, that was Alene Brosch McKenna talking about the Devil Wars Prada 2 with Helen O'Hara, and if you haven't seen that film, it's in cinemas everywhere at the moment. And if you want more from Alene, then the pair of them went on to talk spoilers for the film, and you can hear that chat in our The Devil Wars Prada 2, "Spoider Special," which will be up on Monday, May 18th, featuring me, Helen, and Clarice Lockery, as well, making her Empire podcast debut. And if you don't already subscribe to our "Spoider Specials," I can thoroughly recommend them, check out empiresportespecials.com for details on how to sign up, it'll be well worth your while. And on that note, that is it for this week's episode of the interviews. The main Empire podcast is up featuring a lovely chat between John Eugent and Ima Kellen, and plenty of film-related fun, featuring me, Helen, James Dyer, and Harry Stainer. So check that out wherever you cast your pods. Thank you for listening, see you next time, bye-bye. (dramatic music)