The importance of mental health in entrepreneurship with Mike Iwasiow

Hey Mark. Hey Katie. Hey, you want to do a podcast? Yeah. Sweet. Okay. Welcome to the "Unforget Yourself" show where we use the power of Lou and the proof of science to help you identify your blind spots and get over your own bullshit so that you can do the fucking thing you actually want to do. Absolutely. I'm Mark. And I'm Katie. And we're the founders of "Unforget Yourself" and the creators of the "Unforget Yourself" system. Look, being a business owner is tough with vulnerability and with humour, we'll be sharing with you the real stories behind the success of those brave and crazy enough to start their own business and to show you that you're not alone. Not from the accidental entrepreneur to the laser-focused CEO. We have honest conversations about how they get to where they are today. We talk about the challenges that they faced and what they're currently dealing with in real time on the rollercoaster day. Along the way, we want to show you that it's you. You are the most important asset in your business. Yeah you are. So let's cut the bullshit and start the show. Enjoy! Okay, hello everyone and welcome to the show. Now, just a quick interruption to your normally scheduled episode. It's okay to want more paying clients. Every business owner does. And so, this is for you. Most coaches and consultants are out here doing everything. Content, social media, networking, events, outreach, all of it just to hopefully land the right clients. It costs you time, money and energy. And most of it doesn't work as well as you want it to. Or you could record simple conversations that actually creates clients. That's exactly what the profitable podcast system is designed to do. And as a bonus, that same conversation also creates all of your content. It makes an impact in the world and it grows your visibility. All at the same time without any extra efforts. Now, you're probably thinking, but Mark, podcasting sounds hard and time consuming. Well, not when we do it for you. You just show up and have great conversations just like this one and we do the rest. We design and build your podcast. We attract and manage your guests. We publish your episodes and we guide you as the host. So your time is back. Your energy is back and you'll have a system that pays for itself with one or two new clients. So no big audience needed, no becoming a marketer or an influencer, just the right people now hearing your voice, feeling your energy and thinking, I need to work with this person. So if that sounds interesting, head over to profitablepodcasts.com to see exactly how this will work for you. And now onto your scheduled podcast episode. So today we have this, Mike Evershoove, founder of Booktin, a scheduling software company that helps tattoo artists, barbers, chiropractors and other service-based businesses, simplify bookings and run their operations more effectively. Through accessible platform design for small businesses, Mike and his team make it easier for owners to manage appointments, reduce admin stress and to focus on time serving their clients where it's actually actually needed. Now, Mike's journey from bootstrapping Booktin for more than 12 years or navigating market shifts, leadership challenges and bipolar disorder demonstrates the importance of protecting your mental health while building a successful company. And while leaning away from all the daily operations and actually growing a trusting team and becoming a present father to his two children, he's working to make Booktin the household name for tattoo shops and other service-based businesses. Mike, welcome to the show. Hey Mark, pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thank you so so much for joining us. So to kick us off, can you expand a touch more on, you know, where you are today with your business and who do you love to serve? Yeah, so I mean, we started in 2010, so we've been going out for quite a while. We're now have thousands of customers in six different countries. And yeah, we love to help, as you mentioned, tattoo artists, barbers, chiropractors. You know, auto detailing shops, for example, hair salons, massage therapists, counselors, you know, fitness classes. We also do class scheduling. So anybody who really needs online booking that doesn't want to do it manually anymore by, you know, answering phones or, yeah. Oh, manual. That is the word from a hell. I mean, we all start our business manually putting things together. But as we grow, as we evolve, we create a monster for ourselves. We need systems, operations, platforms that actually support us and help us. And damn it, make life a bit easier. It sounds like that's the essence of what you've created. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I was driven, you know, motivated me to do this in the first place was a pain that one of my friends at the time, he was a massage, he ran a massage therapy business and he was like you say, pull in his hair out because he was doing massage while trying to bring on staff and train while trying to answer phone calls and all that sort of thing. And he actually asked me to build a custom solution for them. I used to build custom software before I started booked in. And then shortly afterwards, I had an experience at a massage therapist myself where I walked in and they had lost my booking. And because they they're their computer crash, they lost everything. And they weren't sure that they're able to get me in. And I was thinking, my god, like, who doesn't back up their data? Who hasn't, but the reality is nobody does. And so, you know, they were able to fit me in. And when I came out, they asked, you know, would you like to book another appointment? And I said, well, you are sure. But could you send me a calendar inviteer at you? And they just looked at me like I was talking a different language, you know? And so as well, no, we can write it on the back of a business card. And so I threw it in my glove box and forgot about it. You know, so I just all these things put together or kind of like, just got to this, this is crazy. You've outlined two very different problems there. There's the problem for the business and the problem for the consumer. Those are, they are heavily linked, but they both have different, different problems to them. Let's focus on the business owner because that's what that does. I remember that getting business cards or an appointment, whether it's like a dentist or an optician or whatever. If it's not in my calendar, there and then I am going to forget. I'm a busy person. These things don't happen. And of course, most businesses, and maybe you can unpack this from your expertise, when we rely on our customers to do the heavy lifting, it doesn't get done. And we talk, we can say that from marketing, we can say that from fulfillment. So I think you're looking at the film in here. So unpack that for me because when we get how, when they're doing the work, it won't happen. No, it won't. And life's just got, gets nuttier and nuttier every year, right? So people are like, sleep deprived. There are 10 cups of coffee, they got no attention span, you know, so for them to remember to put that appointment in their calendar, remember to show, like, no shows are so costly to business, to service-based businesses. I mean, you know, let's take a tattoo artist, for example. I mean, generally on average, they charge, I won't say, anywhere from just like $70 to $100 an hour for, you know, so and many tattoos take several hours. So you, I mean, doesn't take a genius to figure out, one no show is already pays for, you know, an online scheduling software for like three months, you know, it's such a no-brainer and most businesses are in that, in the same boat, you know, so it's a huge money loss. And on top of that, you have the, just the cost of doing all the admin work yourself, right? Like, manning the phones, chasing after your customers. I mean, a lot of businesses will make these calls, for example, two or three days ahead to make sure that all of the people that are, let's say it's a Monday, to make sure that, you know, all their schedule appointments on Wednesday are still intending on coming. So they'll call everybody, right? So someone's got to sit on the phone and call and if they don't and leave a message and all that, right, we do that, we automate that. We send a text, we send a text and an email a couple days before and in that email or text, it literally says reply yes to confirm your appointment. They, you reply on text, yes, boom, appointments confirmed, the businesses notified that it's been confirmed, all automated for you. So there's so many, you know, and also the 24/7 booking, right? Like, let's face it, if you don't have online booking, your customers have to call in during business hours to book or if they don't, they're going to leave a voicemail. Well, if they're forced to do that, they're likely going to book somewhere else. And most people don't have time during the day because they're busy working, you know, they're booking their haircuts and whatever at night when you're not open. So yeah, I mean, there's so many, it's just such a no-brainer, there's so many, there's so many ways. Well, you're talking about convenience, efficiency, pure ease from everyone's perspective. We want to make our customers life so much easier and dammit, selfishly, we want to make our life easier so we can all grow together. You said that no shows are costly, and I think everyone can understand that from a paid client perspective that that no show means no revenue coming in, but also from a business owner who maybe has sales calls. No shows for that are catastrophic. Those rates we need to be able to maintain, and I think you said it beautifully, there's more than just money, it's time energy and money. These are three resources that we have as a human being, and no shows. Yes, you don't get money straight away, but it wastes your time that now you can't put to someone else, and also your emotions, your mental weights, the anguish, the frustration, that builds. So maybe you can talk to this time, energy, and money. These are all important. Yeah, I mean, like you said, I think over time, like you were alluding to, this can sort of suck the soul out of your willingness to run this business, right? I mean, that's happened in my business, there are parts of my business that I love doing, and there's parts that I don't enjoy, and if I have to spend, I mean, you run a business, you sign up for that, right? But over time, if I'm spending 90% of my time doing work, I don't enjoy. I mean, I can get through a week, maybe a month, or whatever, not letting that sort of bother me, but if that goes on and on and on, it slowly starts to suck. Like at the end of the day, your business is also your job. If you're not enjoying your job, you're not going to want to get up in the morning to go to work. Your business is your job, but it's also your joy. I mean, that's right. That's right. And you know, you presumably many small business owners, I mean, I think when people start businesses, a lot of them initially think, oh, I'm going to make lots of money because there's like presumably no ceiling, although there's always a ceiling, but you know, you don't have the shackles of a job, right? And the salary, and you have to bake somebody for a raise and all that stuff. But I don't think it's the money long term people who stay in business, they don't do it for the money. It's more about being in control. It's more about sort of the freedoms that, or as they say, I have the freedom to work 60 hours a week. But it is, it is that, right? You enjoy being sort of the master of your own destiny and that sort of thing. So, um, but we forget. Back to your point, but we forget this. We forget that we are, I mean, yes, we need money as the blood on our business. Money keeps the business going. That's fundamental. But that is far control making money. It's what's only what's better than making money is helping others make money. That is just addictive. It's beautiful. And of course, I cover that with help other people make money with services actually help people. That's my caveat with our business. We make a lot of money. We help our clients make a lot of money, but their business is actually help people. So there's an emotional ripple effect too. But how are you going to make focus on that, making money or maintain that joy that initially got you to, if you're bogged down 90% of the time in mundane administrative tasks, right? Or managing people who are like, it's, it's just slowly sort of kills the joy. So for us, that's a big driver, as to why we do what we do in that we're trying to help the business owners really get back to enjoying their business and enjoying the parts of their business that they enjoy. That makes sense. See, no, no one thinks about it when they're looking for ways to help bookings become better. That's a feature led business. What we've spoken about here is, here's what it actually means. Here's what I know we've been to just touch the tip of the ice burden in what this, what you help people with. But I think it's, I think it's maybe the most important aspect because that's, I mean, we know we can, we can delegate these tasks, but then we can automate the tasks. How do you make everything run more efficiently and more effective? And that's, that's where your, your business come in. So tell me, let's look at the side. So selfishly, what do you love to see happen with your clients? Once they, once they put this into place, they put these systems and processes in. What changes? Well, clients also don't like not showing up because it's disrespectful. They understand that they just caused the business to lose money. And if it's a bit, this just happened to me, by the way, I didn't show up for a hair appointment because they had me at a different time. And I thought I put in my calendar. I'm very organized, but somehow this fell through the cracks. And I walked in and I've been going to the hairstylist for, for years. And I know him quite while I was the owner that cuts my hair. And I felt so bad. And you know, he was like, it's okay, don't worry about it. And I said, I will pay you. Just charge me whatever you need to charge me. I know you lost money. I'll pay like I, he didn't charge me. But I, I, I felt really bad, maybe because I am a business owner. But you know, so clients don't want to know show. So I think there's, we give them a relief with the reminders that they don't even have to worry about putting it in their calendar or, well, okay, I got to remember, I got to remember, when I get home, I got to write this into my calendar. My please don't want to talk to me. He will say that he reminders. Please tell me that he then bought your shedding software straight away after that. No, he uses a competitor. They, yeah, I mean, he has need for other features that we don't have. So yeah, I've talked to him about it. But, you know, but that's, you know, that's a good lead in actually. You know, our focus has always been on that we don't want to cause more stress and anxiety to four hour customers. You know, mental health is such a huge thing these days. I know myself, I've had my own personal mental health struggles. I was diagnosed by Polar when I was 21 and have done a ton of things to sort of manage that. And so I'm very sensitive to that. And, and, and, you know, I think many small business owners have mental health challenges, diagnosed, run diagnosed, but just by the virtue of running a small business, right? It's, it's anxiety. You're, you're a lot of times you're not sleeping, all these things. So, the last thing we want to do is saddle them with a technology that's going to add to that, right? And I think a lot of our competitors are like that. They're, I have gone on just because I want to know what our competitors, I have gone on and tried to set up accounts on our competitors. And I, I like, I just, it just blows my mind because I go through and I try to do the simple things like set up some services. And I like, it's, it's, it's taken me like, there's a few competitors where he took me like an hour to figure this out. I'm thinking to myself, you know, I'm a tech person. I have high tech literacy. Many people of our customers don't, they don't care. That's not what, that's not what gives them joy in life is to play around with tech toys. So, I just kept sat there thinking, how does a person that isn't super tech savvy figure this out? Like it's a nightmare. So, you know, that's what we, and if you look at our reviews anywhere, that's the most predominant thing you'll see our customers, um, praises for is just, it was so easy to use, so easy to set up, oh, I think it's like a relief for them, right? That, um, that's not another headache that they have to deal with. Well, let's, let's, let's, then let's talk about values. I mean, you'll come off the back of an episode where, uh, we spoke about, uh, corporate culture and, um, the values and how the values actually lead and change behavior. And when you assign values to behavior, you can see those people that are working, that did well, you assign it to here's why the value, they're working on when things went wrong, they weren't using the values of, of the business. So, I think for you, this is very much, it's such a personal business as well for you because this mental ease, mental health, the reducing that the strain and the complexity and the chaos of business ownership, that is huge. I know this is a huge mission for you as well to speak openly about the challenges that we, do we all go through at certain levels with the emotional and mental part of life, if not business ownership? So, can you unpack from your perspective in terms of, I mean, from, from a human being, from caring about people, what was it like for you to start this business based on the fact that, hold on, I've experienced this, I've seen this and I get to help people with that mental load through this kind of difficult, or different vehicle. Yeah, I mean, I kind of had no choice but to be an entrepreneur and I've done some research into this and that's actually a thing. There is a study and I forget I can give it to you later if you're interested, that showed that people with mental, like, you know, ADHD, bipolar are actually much, have a much higher predisposition to become entrepreneurs. And there's the theories behind that are that they, Because of those mental health predispositions, they don't sort of fit into, as neatly into a regular kind of establishment or workplace, they have to kind of operate on their own, that sort of thing. And I would say that was kind of the case for me. I had jobs and I just felt like a rat trapped in a cage. I'd be on my own. And I think part of that was driven by the bipolar thing of the kind of the manic phases and whatever. I just like, I want to go, I want to go and this job's keeping me down. You know what I mean? So I think to becoming an entrepreneur was actually helped. I always say like getting the diagnosis having bipolar has actually been my superpower. It's allowed me to learn a lot about myself. It, you can also sort of tap into, there's like, it's kind of like, I always think about the X-Men, you know, the X-Men have, they all have these superpowers, but, you know, they all have to be trained for how to use them responsibly because if they use their superpowers, irresponsibly, then they could cause a ton of damage to the world and others. But if they use it responsibly, they can sort of save the world and others, right? So I look at a lot of the mental health challenges that they're kind of like that because you can tap into like immense energy that other people maybe can't manufacture, but it has a real dark side if you don't learn to sort of manage that and sort of keep it on the right side. Yeah, one thing you said there, I think it's so important, you call it a superpower and I'm like, yes, that's what's all about these mental health issues, diagnoses, neurodivergent, all these things are, everything's a blessing and a curse. So for me, OCD, that is absolutely my superpower. Fundamentally, it's, I mean, problem solving and seeing that, that's where I absolutely excel. It is great with my business owners and my clients and my business. It is clumsy as hell at the dinner table with the kids, okay, so we've got to learn where and how to use this, but you're right, we all have so those, those people that you're describing there, they, they're more creative, they see more things, they have more energy, there's all these different ways that you can use your superpower. It is not a negative, but it's just how and when you wield it, I love that you said that. We haven't said it in a long time, so thanks for bringing it up. Yeah, 100%. So let's, let's talk about you then with this, because once you realize, yes, you understood your, you're on the unforgettable show, unforgettable self, remember you. So once you understood and remembered who you actually are, then you create the business that not only helps other entrepreneurs save their time, energy and money and sanity. But also you have to have grown the business for you that actually supports you. So tell about how you're all suppliers for your business. So this, this business does support you. It doesn't rely on you. It doesn't get you to work in ways that you absolutely hate. Tell me about that. Well, that's, that's an ongoing challenge. I've definitely haven't solved that riddle. But I guess, you know, from the early days, like I mentioned previously, I used to build custom software development for company, I was a programmer. That was my job, the last job I ever had. And then I went on my own, did contract programming and hire people around projects and kind of built a little bit of a custom software development practice. And then I wanted to start a product. So I started booked in, use the money I made in the custom software development business to fund that was all bootstrapped and then wound down the custom software development is business and now focus entirely on the, on the product business. And so all along the way, I've had enough money to, I built one business that was making money and that funded another business. And so all along the way I was making sure that I had money to support myself and my family, I actually started the product company right when we were my wife and I were well technically my wife was pregnant. I was laughing guys say, we were pregnant. Like you weren't pregnant. Your wife was, we didn't do anything. Anyway, my wife became pregnant with our first, which I probably was the stupidest idea ever. Like, you know, you don't start a business when you're just about to have your first child. But I did because, yeah. So, you know, that raising children all along the way. I come from an immigrant family. We immigrated from Poland to Canada when I was 10 years old. And my parents were extremely busy building a life. We literally got, came with nothing. They had to build a life all over some scratch. And I mean, we're still to this day very close family. But there were, there were very turbulent times and they probably didn't have as much time for us as they would have liked to. And so when I had children and we moved a lot, moved around a lot. And that sort of thing. So when I had children, my big thing was I really wanted to spend the time and be with my children during those years because you just don't get that time back. And I always work more later. And so that was a huge driver for me. That's one of the reasons I never really sought out investor capital. I wanted to bootstrap the whole thing myself because I wanted to be in control of how fast I wanted to go. But investors, you no longer in control because you have to hit targets or they're going to bounce you out. Right. So, and so that decision, like for me, it was priority. One was the family and the children and spending the time. And so I, you know, I volunteered in my kids school as I coach them hockey, soccer, I still still am coaching their hockey to this day. You know, we've gone on lots of vacations. I take lots of vacation time on all these things, but that was always a priority. And that often meant I don't have as much time as I would like to to work on my business. So I had to accept that. Like the honestly, it really lucky the business is not going to grow super fast. One of the best things I did is stop reading like crunch based articles and, you know, fortune 500 articles because all you see is this company grew from, you know, $1,000 a month to 10 billion and three and you just the more you read, you're the more makes it feel like a failure, but stress, stress, hustle, hustle, hustle. Yeah, it can be inspiring, but it can also be. It can have a negative effect as well. Well, and kind of like what are you doing it for? Right. Like, like, you sort of, it's easy to lose track of that. We sort of talked about that earlier, but. You know, I have to keep reminding myself, you always want more. I'm very hard on myself. I always want to grow. That's what gets me up in the morning. But at the end of the day, it's never going to be enough. If I pick a goal and like, oh, if I could only reach this goal, I know that if I get there, I'm just by the time I'm even approaching, I'm already, my eyes are already up here. So like, I never satisfied, you know, I forget that this was me. And I think, you know, way that's necessary for entrepreneurs for drive, but at the same time. That can that obsession can really destroy other parts of your life, right? So. You're talking my love language here. I have that point where things become an obsession. So I know what I'm healthy going after things, healthy work, healthy this. But then there's that feeling where it starts to become, yeah, tighter. There's has a different flavor to it, different feeling to it. I'll only put that when it becomes an obsession, when we all feel that that's time to like, hold on, pause, release. What's really going on. Yeah, yeah. And what's really like, right? Like a lot of, I think a lot of what drives us is our negative forces, right? And even that, I think is okay. I think you just accept everything like the human condition, right? But I think it's good to be aware of that because it's okay to let the dark side sort of drive you a little, but you got to know that, okay, but if I breach this boundary, that's when, you know, my life comes horribly miserable. So you got to know where that boundary is. May make one tweak to that statements, because I think I think we're saying there's fundamentally correct. It's never okay to let fear drive, but to let fear or the negative inform you, that is the most important thing. It should never ever have the steering wheel, but it should absolutely be saying, hey, there's this thing I'm seeing. There's something I'm concerned about. It's in information. So emotions are your, are your co-pilot? They are your navigator? Well, what's in the, the rally cars? Well, they have a sky reading out sheets at a rapid pace. I look at it. I look at it as, what is your relationship to fear? If your relationship is entirely submissive, like fear happens and you just kind of try to run away from it or you let it control you, like you say. Yeah. Uh, I mean, unless it's somebody pointing a gun to your head, um, but, you know, most fears aren't that bad. There's a reason it's like, hey, this is unsafe. Think, I think you better know this, right? Yeah. But other than that, if fear is like, oh, I don't know if I'm good enough to do this and whatever, like, like, you have to let that drive you. You have to figure out how to let in. And I think you nailed it. There is is okay. Like really diving into that. Why is this causing me fear? What is the, where is the fear coming from? And then that will illuminate you to essentially, I, I believe that fear. And is literally the doorway to growth. Oh, always. So if something in your life is causing you fear is fearful again, look at that because that's the doorway to the, to your greatest growth right there. Okay. Let's give you an analogy. I think you were absolutely right there. Pain is the physical representation of fear. So if I've got pain in my foot, it's like, hey, better look down here. Something's going on. I mean, maybe I've stepped on a Lego block or maybe there's a snake. You know what? That pain serves a purpose. There's something over here that you may need to pay attention to. Would you mind? I think fear does exactly the same, same thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's absolutely important to understand that, I think. Absolutely. Well, my look, thank you so, so much for not only having a beautiful business conversation about the work that you do and how you help your service-based businesses, but also the emotional side, the human side behind the scenes. This is what is, I'd argue, it's even more important. And so I love these open, honest conversations that get me on excited and also like, yeah, I feel called out and we're all doing this. So yeah, if everyone's feeling called out or you see yourself in these conversations, congratulations, you're normal. You're a human. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just like if it's peaks and valleys, right? And you know, you're in a valley, just remember, there is a peak coming. I mean, maybe it'll come tomorrow, maybe it'll come next week, maybe next month, maybe next year. But there is a peak because like life's never, life's never just peaks, valleys, peaks, valleys, and then valley, and that's it. Just you're staying in the valley forever. Like life doesn't work like that. So, well, and that would be a very, that'd be a horrendous mountain range. I want to see my mountain range with personality and and and and and variety. So, yeah, we got to talk for hours on this. I think it's a beautiful subject. So, look, thank you for everything. Thank you for sharing. For those people that like Mike, oh my gosh, they want to make more about the work that you do, the services you give. How, how can they find out more? Well, just go to bookting.com B-O-O-K-E-D-I-N.com. And you can find all sorts of information about our product services. We have a fantastic support. That's what also one of the other things we're known for. We realize that software is easy as ours is. People always have questions and you need help sending things up and we're, we're there for them. So, yeah, by all means, check us out. Fantastic. That's bookting.com. Great me, by the way. I love that. It's so clear. It's so simple. Everyone, if you're curious or think, yeah, this sounds incredible. Go and check it out and then start the conversation. But again, Mike, thank you so so much. This has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been fun. You're welcome. All right, everyone. That's a wrap. What a great episode. I love that we covered so much of business, life, human. So, fantastic. All right. Now, if you're listening to this and you're actually thinking, hey, Mark, I'd love my own podcast that actually helps grow my business. That's exactly what we help with. So, not more content for the sake of content, not yet one more thing you need to add to your list of things to do, but a system that brings you clients, referrals and partnerships through fun and engaging conversations. It's simple, it's efficient and it's easy. So, if you're not quite sure how it fits inside your business, or maybe you tried podcasting before and it didn't quite work, that's usually a strategy problem, not a podcast problem. So, I'd love to show you what it looks like when done right. If you want, come and have a chat. You can email me directly at [email protected]. That's [email protected] and we'll start the conversation. And in the meantime, I'll see you on the next episode. Hey, Katie. Yeah, Mark. Wanna do an outro? I sure do. Sweet. Hey, thank you so so much for listening and making it to the end. Yay, you. So, what happens next? We ask them the things that podcast we're supposed to ask at the end of an episode. Can you please rate, review, download? Subscribe. Yeah. But why is it important? Because that's how our podcast gets noticed. That's how people find us. It is. And we want all their earballs. All the earballs, all over place. We do. Nice. Yeah. So, please do all those things. We'll be ever so grateful. And then more people here. You're a beautiful voice. Oh, you're awesome. Oh, yeah. See you next time. Bye.