The Hit Factory: Stock, Aitken and Waterman (Part 3)

[MUSIC PLAYING] Best British record producer 1988. Stock Aiken and Waterman. [CHEERING] Mike Stock, Matt Aiken and Pete Waterman were at least partly responsible for hits last year from Sunita, Rick Astley, Benana Rama, Melon Kim, Samantha Fox, and of course, Ferry Aid. Well, we'd just like to say thanks to all the teams, because that's what being a producer is all about, the artist management and everybody. Thanks for everything. Thanks a lot. Give you an idea of the enormity of their achievement between July and September of 1987. They were responsible for 10% of the singles that were being sold during that period. That amounted to 1.5 million records. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to part three of what feels like the never-ending ascent of Stock Aiken and Waterman. Will the bubble ever burst? Well, do you know what? It's not going to burst in this episode. It's just going to get-- Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Thanks for joining me again, Matthew. Welcome back. Thank you for being me back. How are you feeling about Stock Aiken and Waterman? Do you know what? I really admire their gumption. Great gumption. They've got gumption to burn. The gumption were one of their bands that didn't quite make it. Yeah. It was gumption in the Reynolds girl. I'm going to start-- not by talking about Stock Aiken and Waterman. Let me take you back to October the 27th, 1986. Let us never forget this fundamental truth. The state has no source of money, other than the money people earn themselves. If the state wishes to spend more, you can do so only by borrowing your savings or by taxing you more. And it's no good thinking that someone else will pay. That someone else is you. Which was the day two things happened. It was the day of the deregulation of the financial markets, which was known as the big bang implemented by Margaret Hapses government. That was Britain heading in an even more that-trial direction. And it was the day of the first episode of Neighbors on UK television as well. Wow. [MUSIC - "Helfer and the Welfare and the Welfare" by Margaret Hapses] The day the world changed, what would you say has had more of a seismic effect on culture, generally, or the world, generally? I'd say the financial market. You're probably-- Yeah, I would say. But I'd say it's less interesting. I don't want to talk about that. I've got no interest. I do want the culture and the name. Don't really understand it. So Neighbors arrives in the UK as an Australian soap that is on Australian television, and then the BBC buys rights to it. We were always a few years behind. We'll kind of come to our experience with Neighbors, but you watched it as a child, presumably. Yeah. When you were saying a few years, well, we six months out or a year out. I felt like we were maybe catching up. There was always-- They took a big holiday and we never did. Yeah, we used to take two weeks off for Wimble, don't I think? Right. Throughout childhood, I watched Neighbors, and you watched Neighbors, I think. Yes, there was rumors that stuff would happen in Australia ahead of time. Yeah. Often the actors would come across, and they'd presumably been written out by this stage. They come over to do Panto. Yeah, they'd come over to Panto. Neighbors wasn't instantly popular in the UK at all. The reason maybe UK's soap opera kind of landscape at the time was coronation straight. And then East Enders had started a couple of years earlier. East Enders was on BBC One, and it was the biggest, most popular. But it was bleak. The UK likes-- it's supposed to be a bit gritty. Gritty. Gritty. Incredibly working class. Yes. Heat Waterman's childhood. The concrete factory. The concrete rage digging. That's what we look for in our soap opera. Yeah. Whereas Neighbors, it's sunny. Neighbors can home it away. That's how they were sold to teenagers. To give you an idea of East Enders, you had Nick Cotton's hair in addiction. Dirty Den had an affair with schoolgirl Michelle Fowler. Of course, she released an ill-fated single with Stonkaken and Waterman. We all remember that. Arthur Fowler stole the Christmas Club money and had a breakdown. I don't know if you've seen that Arthur Fowler smashing on his sing-room clip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks like a can-loach move. It's really bleak. It's really kitchen-sync. Well, it's in the movies, there's no sync. Yeah. My wife said that one of the best things for her about going to university was not just further in her education, but it was the fact that she didn't have to watch East Enders with their family. It was like a family thing. She realized, oh, I don't have to be stressed all the time. Yeah. Worrying about what's going to happen to a family who don't exist. I don't have to see who's going to be killed on Christmas day. What, like, plain is going to land on the pub or whatever. It's awful. Let's talk about the opposite kind of storylines and neighbours. If I give you a character, if you give me the defining storyline, so bounce her. Bounce his dream. Bounce his dream, which was a dog who had a dream about marrying another dog. Get married. A dream sequence without marrying another dog. Even when they died, Julie Martin, do you remember how she died? She died, a murder mystery we can. That's right. She did. She did. We've got a very strong memory of her cremation. Her ashes being scattered in the forest. Oh, really? Yeah. I remember we all watched that in school. And there was, of course, a terrible misstep, which we should mention. We should talk again from the Martin family. So their neighbours moved in and they were the limb family. Yep. They were of East Asian descent, I believe so. And Holly the dog went missing. And you can fill in the blanks. Well, can you? No, no, no. Just be clear. They hadn't done this. No, no, no, yeah. You can fill in the blanks, because Julie Martin accused them of cooking and eating Holly the dog. Yeah. And so it wasn't all good. It was a rare moment of casual racism from Australia. Exactly. Exactly. It was a tiny blot on an other way. Another way spotless landscape. Exactly. But it was generally incredible fun. It was teenagers. It was cricket in the street. It was light, high, and strong. That's how it started. That was the opening sequence with the old theme tune. Yeah. It's slightly more bouncy version of the theme tune. Yeah. Was there more playing cricket in the street? Bouncy's dream. Yeah. Initially, you might not know this. It wasn't a success in the UK. Now, I remember watching the first episode. What time did you watch it? This is the Mandela effect. Now, I want to say I watched it in the middle of the day, but it can't be the case. No, that is true. Well, unless you were off school. What was it? '86. 'Cause I would have started. '86. '86. So Michael Gray had of the BBC at the time scheduled it for 9.25 AM after breakfast TV. And 1.35 PM after the lunchtime news, he says, his words, nothing much happened. It didn't fly. No one was interested. His daughter comes home from school one day. She says, "Oh, I got in trouble at school today." And he says, "What for?" And she says, "Oh, we all got caught. We should have been in the playground, but we were watching television." He's interested in television. Is he job? He says, "What we were watching?" She said, "We were all watching neighbours in the common room." And a light bulb went in. "And next day, I went into the office and I said, we're moving neighbours to 5.35 PM. So the kids can watch it when they come home from school." And his words, classic words, particularly in the podcast world, and the rest is history, as they say. (laughing) That's amazing. Isn't that fun? It was just his daughter. It was the room cupboard, wasn't it? Yeah. Room cupboard finished straight into neighbours. Straight into neighbours. And if Michael Gray's door hadn't got into it, it would have never moved to that time. I love that. Yeah, it's great, isn't it? So by then, neighbours is being watched by 16 million brits, which is more than the entire population of Australia at the time. That's huge numbers. That's like more common wise Christmas special numbers. George Harrison once asked Ian Smith who played Harold Bishop for an autograph. This is how much it's. (laughing) Harold Bishop did say he was bigger than Jesus, didn't he? But he just meant in waist size. (laughing) Yeah, that's why you couldn't do the smithic bars. (laughing) They wouldn't employ you. They wouldn't employ you with smithic bars. Princess Diana was a fan. Legend has it she wants asked the baby to see for video tapes of two episodes she had missed. You know what, that's the reason to marry into royalty, isn't it? (laughing) But that was that level of perk. Do you know after she split from Charles in the early 90s, she had to then be very careful about watching neighbours 'cause she knew she couldn't get the video tapes anymore. She had to get a very, very expensive VCR. - Yeah. - And learn how to program it. - Exactly. - 'Cause otherwise, you're missing it. - The classic though, in fact, was that it became so popular with British teenagers that there became a public kind of healthcare, which was that teenagers started talking with an Australian accent, where you would go up at the end of a sentence, like everything's a question. - Yeah. I'm seeing this now with my kids. I don't know, do your kids watch a lot of Americans? - Yeah, Americans often on YouTube, and so they use phrases like garbage truck. - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause they watch the people singing a song about it. - Yeah, yeah. - I've got no problem with it. - No, I don't have an issue with it, but at the time, maybe Britain was more inward looking. - Yes, I think that's probably true. - Not inward looking enough that it didn't stop its peak at November 1988. which is what two years after it had been first screened almost to the day, 19.6 million viewers tuned in for the biggest ever episode, which I'm sure you'll be able to tell me what it was. - It's gotta be Scott and Charlene's wedding. - Scott and Charlene's wedding. So the schoolboy next door, Scott and the tomboyish calm mechanic, Charlene Mitchell, just another great name of storyline, is when Helen Daniels dies. - Yes. - Who's Daniels is the matriarch of the street. And she's Scott's grand or mum or whatever I don't know. - She must be grand, right? - She dies watching a home video of Scott and Charlene's wedding. But obviously they haven't got a home video. - She's got a couple episodes. - They cut to like a beautifully shot wedding. - With the song, with the angry Anderson song. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. - But Charlene Mitchell is played by Caeli Manogue. And so she is the next key character in the Stockade, Kenneth Warman story. And maybe the biggest character in the Stockade, apart from Pete himself. - Apart from Pete. - But probably higher than Mike and Matt. - Yeah, sadly. - I don't think Mike and Matt are even making the top five. (laughs) - Do you think Rick Astley is more-- - Rick Astley's bumping. I reckon if you showed a picture of Rick Astley. - Yeah, of course. - Genuinely, I think I knew Mike Stark. I didn't know it was Matt Aiken. - And I wouldn't be able to pick either of them out of a line up now. - I don't know. - I couldn't tell you now. - Towards the end of 1987. So this is before the wedding. She has her first meeting with Stockade, Kenneth Warman. And it is a absolute shambles. - Oh no. - 'Cause they thought she was a mechanic. - They brought in his head, listen. That weird rattling noise. Can you do anything about that? It's my silver jaguar as well. - What is right about Warrington later on? - Pete said that Matt and Mike were right or a track. But he forgets to tell Matt and Mike. - Oh. So Caeli comes over to London. She spends 10 days waiting to record this. Doesn't hear anything. All right, so on the day she's due to fly back to Australia, Hirono managed to turn up at the Stockade, Ken and Warman studios, demanding to see someone. And Mike knew nothing about her until that point. Mike calls Pete who's not there to ask what's going on. Pete admits he forgot to tell them about Kylie Manoke. Even though she's been in London. - So have they paid for it to fly over? - I don't know, maybe she's flown herself. I don't know, maybe Pete. - This feels like a big either side on Pete. - I know, yeah. Mike feels so bad for Kylie. He says, I'm gonna write your track here and now. - And she's saying, you should be so lucky. - No, no, it wasn't there a couple. It's not as neat as that, is it? - Well, it depends who you believe. Mike claims he couldn't understand why she wanted help as she seemed to have everything in her life. People want to be as lucky as her, but maybe the thing she doesn't have is love. So I wrote, I should be so lucky. However, Pete claims when Mike comes along and says, I said this thing. - Yes. However, Pete claims when Mike rang him saying that she needed a record made for that day, Pete replied, she should be so lucky. To which Mike said, that'll do. (laughing) - So it could easily have been, sorry, whose this is a bit of a bad line. - Yeah, exactly, yeah. - Over the next 30 minutes, according to Pete, Pete and Mike are faxing lyrics back and forth to each other. - faxingly. Wait, over how much time? - 30 minutes. - No, no. - We've seen a fax machine from the '80s. 30 minutes won't send you even one line. - No. The track was written and recorded in 40 minutes. She was done by 215 and on her flight at 4pm. Different days in terms of her put security. - They didn't, she wouldn't be taking issues and belt off now. - Exactly. - All of that. - It was a different time. Obviously now. - They wouldn't have time to write the song because of Al Cahydra. - Yeah, exactly. The terrorists would have won. - The terrorists would have won. (laughing) How long do you get to an airport ahead of time normally? I've got to be two and a half hours. - Two and a half hours, yeah. - It's gotta be. - Kylie, presumably, we don't know who's paying for it. Maybe she's going first class. Adouchy has the money at that point. - Neighbours must have been, it was just a soap, wasn't it? - Mike finishes the track, puts it away. The only remembers about it were no Australian label, mushroom records getting touched. - No one can remember Kylie. - No one. - She must, I would feel so affronted if I was Kylie. - She know what. - I can't remember 'cause I read a thing where he said, she just didn't look like a star. She had like her hair back and just like, not glasses. - Glasses. (laughing) - If you hadn't pinned her hair, took her big glasses, shook out her hair back. - Would that happen to her neighbors? - Yeah, I know, I know. - It's the case. - Just if you don't know, on neighbours, there's a character called Plane Jane, who takes over glasses. - Plane Jane's super brain, yeah. Plane Jane's super brain. And she has a restore, which she takes over glasses and everyone fancies her. Like kind of clock and super man. - Would you like to try that now, you're wearing glasses? You see if I fall in love with you. In fact, don't, because I'm a married man, I can't handle it. If you take up your glasses and shake out your hair and I end up calling Charlie and say, I'm leaving you. Be too much. So leave those glasses. - I will leave them on. So you're thinking, what happens now? How does the track become a hit? Let me take you to the Stockade Cana Mortman Christmas party at the Natural History Museum. - Ooh, nice place for a party. - Who's DJing? It's Lenny Henry. (laughing) He plays the song and Pete says, what is this? How has Henry got his hands on a company? - Oh no, how Lenny Henry's ended up with a copy of it. He sold his Kylie and Pete says, this is a smash hit. A last. All of the top DJs are playing it. - I do. - Smith and Jo, and Lenny Henry. - And he had me Ben Elton's, but it's really on the day. - Ron Atkinson's giving it a whirl. Pamela Stevenson, they're all playing it. - Yeah. - So at this point, Pete Waterman, the only hand he's had in it is the title. - Or if you believe him. - If you believe that, the teacher. - No, to be fair to him, he has been the person who's booked Kylie. - He booked her once, then forgot about her first book. - So be fair, he has at one point booked her and forgotten about her. - So then they go round to all the major labels. 'Cause at this point, a stockade can walk him and song, that's not a label. - No, they just make records. - And then the label, different labels, put them out. - Pronto's no longer a thing. - Yeah. No one is interested. - Wow. And even though she's a TV star, people love her from the TV. - Yeah, exactly. No one's interested in releasing that song. - And to Lenny Henry sets up a, no. So Pete Waterman creates a record label, right? Called Pete Waterman Limited. - The other guys must have been limited. - P-W-L. - Why not saw? - I don't know, I don't quite understand this and I'd like, I know saw is the production line, but why not saw records? - I don't know. And so he sets up Pete Waterman Limited in 1987, which I don't know what the chronology of that is with the Christmas party, maybe it was early December. (laughing) - Maybe they had it in November to keep the cost down. - Yeah. - That's the only way you're gonna get. - No, I'm gonna finish him, he's a. - Well, both, really. If you want the Venn diagram of Lenny Henry and the Big Dinosaur. (laughing) - Slow-moving to Pete Waterman. - I know, he's got some views on a woman's prerogative, but I think that feels unfair. (laughing) He was obvious time. So they released, I should be so lucky in February 1988. - Frisk feels very soon after Lenny Henry's played. - But there we go. - Although supposedly, Mandy Smith, so I just can't wait was the first track on the label. - They brushed that one under the carpet. - Yeah, yeah. - This was the first hit. - Well, it went into the charts at number 78. - Oh. - So they only press a few copies, then demand surges and they end up having orders for 800,000 in the UK alone. - By this point, Lenny Henry's out of the picture. - Yeah. - It's not like he's just doing right. - He's got just good word of it. - No, exactly. (audience cheering) - The big is those of the ones who watch in next week's chart back to this week's chart now and the highest new entry. - She's here in the top of the box studio. Call him in, oh! (audience cheering) (upbeat music) - Top's the charts, UK Australia, Germany, Ireland and Switzerland. It is a huge, huge hit. So people start saying, what's the second single? And you're not gonna believe this. Kylie's management site, she wasn't happy with the treatment of Stock Eight in a while. (laughing) - How did they get off? (laughing) - What a diva. - Oh no. - Like there's absolutely nothing wrong with being flown to a different continent when we've been-- - We've gotten about. - We've gotten about for 10 days and then being forced at near gun points to record a song you've never heard before and then getting on a plane and flying back. - That's wrong with getting the song. - And then forgetting the song even existed. Putting it in a drawer and forgetting about it. - So Mike Blantock goes to her house in Melbourne to apologize. - He knows now he's on to a good thing I suppose. - Of course. - Yeah. - Is he the one who's not a people person? - No, that's not. - That's not sending eight Kinect up. - No, no. - If they wanna make good with Kylie, they've got to send-- - Oh, you should really send Pete. - Maybe Pete's in the go shit in the Haudenosa music of Netflix, but-- - I suppose Pete is not the face of that bad day. - That's true. Yeah, you've gotta have somebody there 'cause what you don't want is Pete coming over and going, so about what he makes. 'Cause then they're always still gonna be the people who've got it wrong. - Yeah, he messed up, he wants me good for it. - So Kylie's album is finished on Easter Sunday, '88. So that's pretty soon after. While her mum waits for her in reception. - Is she really young? Is she like-- - No, no, no. - No, she's in her 20s. - She's coming over to the UK. - You wanna bring your mum, yeah. - She does crochet between the takes. - Her mum or the Kylie? - Really. - It's nice little detail. - That's nice little detail. - Yeah. - Do they tell you what she's crocheting? Are we talking a little T-Cosy? - No, we don't know. We never know. We never know. No. In Christmas, 1998, so that this is a year on from Lenny Henry dropping the tube. Tillie Rutherford who works at P.W. L. East. He's a stock-hate gun woman. It's all getting a bit foggy from here at this point. They wanted to push her album sales. And so they noticed, and this is just mad at the time, that there's adverts for things like holidays and DIY at Christmas, but there's no adverts really for music. And because back then adverts slots were cheaper than every other time of year. They decide, "Why don't we just do an advert for Kylie's album?" And by January, the sales have gone from quarter of a million to 2.7 million. That's mad. I'd never considered this from Pete's book, by the way. So I'm with the grain of salt. That's what it's called, isn't it? It's the second. I wish I was me, and I wish I'd be the result. I don't know why it wouldn't have sold loads anyway, because Kylie's such a big artist. Yeah. But I guess, you know, that's the job of advertising. Yeah. Stick it literally in front of Pete's noses and say, "Look, is this thing?" The internet doesn't exist. The internet doesn't exist. A single's are a thing, but maybe albums aren't. There's no social media, so artists aren't promoting themselves in the same way. She can't mention it on neighbours. She can't hold up a copy. It's a frustration of having 12 million people watch you each day, but not be able to mention your product. She's a mechanic. She has the radio on all day, but they can't play. I should be so lucky. No. So demand for albums and records get so high at this point. She's so popular. Stock Haken and Wartman's printers are preparing sleeves for Kylie albums before the albums are written. And so Mike writes that the guys in the plan, a couple of times, just invented song titles, and then Stock Haken and Wartman had to write the songs. Do those guys get a credit as well? I like to. People want to know what to do. Yeah. Because apparently, if you've got two guys who are making the entire song, one guy is just going, "Well, I'm going to say something on the phone if you want to use it as a title or not." Then surely these guys who are actually inventing song titles should get a little cut of that. Well, there you go. Yeah, I don't know. But that's mad, isn't it? Brilliant. Are we to imagine that one of them said, "Let's do a French number? Let's do a French par-portquard. Let's make Mike and Matt really work for it." So in the two years she works with Stock Haken and Wartman, she has 15 top 10 hits. Four number ones. He says he made Kylie a millionaire in 12 months. He said, "It wasn't the first or last time I've done that for someone. In fact, in terms of success, I'm second only to the National Lottery." I love it. Yeah. I absolutely love it. Jason Donovan plays Kylie's love interest in the name of Scott and Charlene. So they think, let's sign Jason Donovan. Let's do so in the Jason Donovan next. So they bring Jason over. They have to kind of give him a style up. Because he's got the famous mullet. Has it neat? Well, that's what he moves to. Oh, really? That was ponytail. Oh, he's got a ponytail and they go, "Look, this is new modern haircut. It's just coming." They cut off the ponytail. That feels very kind of like yuppie, doesn't it? The yuppie ponytail. Yeah. But they've got rid of that. Donovan's not loving it. He says, "I always knew what clothes I wanted to wear, how I wanted to present myself. But when I cut my hair, things suddenly got really good and really exciting." I think it's like a Dona Sampson. Accepting it, yeah. But he's not totally comfortable. Do you know what his big singles? Too many broken hearts. Yes. Yes. Got to feel he thinks it's going to start getting a little bit noisy now. This guy's going to be popping up all over today's show, but what a year is he? In March, he celebrated his first solo number one with too many broken hearts. Merry Christmas, Jason Donovan. They wrote that song. Jason comes in February the 10th. They record it. They shoot the video. His song is number one, March the 10th. Wow. They are quick. His head must have been spinning. That's so fast. I know, it's mad. From not being a pop, they got to eat a number ponytail. He was a talent. He was going to give himself a whiplash. Who do you think claims to have written too many broken hearts? Well, it's going to be Pete Waterman, hasn't it? It's got Pete Waterman must have, did he call one of them up on the phone and say, "I tell you what, there's a lot of people out there buying our records. It's just too many broken hearts." Or is it something like that? It's going to be. You're not far. Pete claims, Mike is not happy because Pete claims to have written too many broken hearts in 10 minutes while on the toilet. Mike explains, he only came up with a title. Of course he did. Have you heard the toilet flushing mix as well? That was the one that everyone loved. Do you want to know what the title Pete came up with according to Mike Stock? I'd give it 15 minutes. So Mike says, "He only came up with a title. There are too many people wandering around with broken hearts." It's just too long. It's too long. It's just too lengthy. So this is where Mike, just to be clear, says Pete thought coming up with a title is the same as writing the song. That's not just from us, that's from Mike Stock. Sure. I would say anecdotally, I agree with him. Yeah. But I'd say, good on him. Jason's on a TV show called The Heroes, which I don't know. Don't remember the heroes, which is on the Wednesday night before the tracks release. And Jason says, Pete asks him, did you die in the episode? And Jason says, yes, he did. And Pete says, thank God for that. Double the records for Saturday. He knows what he's doing. Well, this is it because a lot of artists achieve great posthumous success. But if you could have your actor die multiple times in multiple different TV shows. Exactly. The problem with Jimmy Hendrix dying at 27 was no more Jimmy Hendrix records. Exactly. He got to have his cake and eat it too. Although Jimmy Hendrix didn't kick back against his producers in the way that Jason Donovan will soon. No, that's true. Jimmy Hendrix, he was a company man through and through. Wasn't he? Well, Jason says, I'll never forget when Pete heard the record. He said one word. What do you think it was? Hit. Good thing. Good thing. Of course it was. Of course it was. Right. You've done Kylie. You've done Jason. What's the next thing you should do? Are they going to mine the rest of the cast of neighbours? They got the news, didn't they? They do Kylie and Jason together. Especially for you. Especially for you. Especially for you. We got a treat for you now. On top of the pots. Kylie and Jason, especially for you. So they're asked to write a song to tie in with the neighbours wedding. Incredibly, they're skeptical about this idea, which considering the success they've had feels mad, seems like a caching. They're very sad. They're very sad. They're very sad. The manager, the Pete Warton Limit Business Manager, David Howes, gets a call from Walrus asking for 400,000 copies of it. So they go, all right, we'll do it. Because Pete Warton Limit describes himself as having Woolworth's ears. Have you ever heard this? Yeah. He just grabs himself as the man with Woolworth's ears. Because he knows what will sell in Woolworth's. No, because they were shaped like those little shrimp you get. I know. He knew exactly what people in Woolworth would want to buy. Well, in this occasion Woolworth's had Woolworth's ears and Pete didn't. You'd hope they would. Yeah. The title comes up when Tilly Rutherford, we've mentioned already, who works there. Someone asks, what do they write on Christmas cards? It's a Christmas duet. Tilly Rutherford says, especially for you and especially for you, is born. It tops the charts in January 1989, having only got to number two due to Cliff Richard's Missile Tell and Wine. A banger. The milkman would have signed that off with absolute. You got no worries there, Cliff. That will come back because their inability to get the Christmas number one, there does drive them in a later date. The video sees Jason picking up Kylie. There's a kind of iconic spin and they've never sung it together live until 2012. It's true. I'd have loved to have seen that. I don't know why they never did it on top of the pop. It's a very iconic video, but mate, they couldn't do it. I suppose they're in Australia. They're in Australia, yeah. Unless you're counting, does Mimeing not count? Did they Mime along to it? No, I don't think they've never sung it live until then. So by the late 80s, Jason Donovan sold three million records in the UK. It's debut album sold 1.5 million. We should good numbers. Yeah. We're living in a post-ricastly Kylie world, so we're not as impressed by that numbers. But still doing very gamebusters, yeah. Mike, though, says Jason's career then goes awry because of his mates down the pub. Mike, to be clear, often discusses mates down the pub, leading his acts astray. So, dripping a little poison in your ear, yes, they mock him for it being a pop star. Mike says their influence was incredulous to us because none of these so-called mates were ever successful. Also, if you're down the pub with Jason Donovan, just think he was buying every other round. You're turning up with three points. - He's splitting it between-- - Exactly, exactly. And then you've got Jason Donovan, now he's sure of his ponytail. - Well, you say he's sure of his ponytail, Matthew. - No, he didn't try and grind it back, did he? - Well, it's first career mistake. This was a big one. He sues the face magazine, which is a trendy - I remember. - Pone of 80s magazine. I don't know if it still exists for calling him gay. Now, he's not homosexual, but the fact he's done that goes down very badly with some people. A lot of his fans consider him to be homophobic for suing them. He wins, he gets 200,000, he returns most of that money, but that's a big career damage to Jason Donovan. - I remember this story, but I hadn't sort of thought of the origins a bit. What? - 'Cause they didn't do like expose, people, it wasn't like the news of the world. - No. - So what did they do? They just described me like, "Gay pops down." - I don't know, I don't know. - I genuinely-- - No, that's interesting. - What? On our bonus episodes, we'll go more into that. - It's not a funny story, 'cause it's a bit-- - It's a bit of a bleak story, yeah. - It is interesting. So Jason then takes some time off. Then his next mistake, he started listening to his mates at the pub. Early 1991, he goes to Australia, he's had some time off, he says he's overexposed. He then turns up at the Stockake in a warm-up, offices with a beard and long hair. - Oh no. - And announces that he's really into the happy Monday. - Oh dear, listen. As someone with a beard and long hair, who enjoys the happy Mondays, that is not a road that's paved with riches. (laughing) I can tell you now, Jason, take it from me. - And he says, "I'm gonna tour with my own band performing alternative music." - Oh no. This is like when take that grew dreadlocks and started doing smells like teen spirits. - This is not-- - It's just stay in your lane. There's nothing wrong with staying in your lane. - All right, Pete. (laughing) - Listen, I think I'm so-- I spent so much time around the Stockake, "Watman" guys now, I'm really-- - Yeah, I know, I've been-- - I think-- - I like-- - Suddenly as a man who doesn't like their music and would consider myself a fan of tedious alternative music, I've now been indoctrinated to the point where I can't believe anyone wouldn't join Stockake in a warm and just sing their songs. - But as a fan of alternative music, you also know that it's very hard to switch it up. - It's very hard. - It's very hard to switch it up. - So that's early '90, '91. - By May, Jason management of "Contacted Pete" say that Jason's taken apart in "Joseph and the Measant Technical Dream" code. - Now that for me was a great success story for him. - Well, no, they asked Stockake and "Watman" to help them out. I think with some songs for it. So that's a don't help them out with this because a musical that already exists. And perhaps you wanted to release a version of one of those songs, but then surely that would go out through-- - I don't know, maybe it's the very-- - The very useful kind of me. - The very useful kind of me. - So Pete relates a trip with Jason to Andrew Lloyd Webber's house, which I would say is insane. So the house is located in Warchship Down, which is the-- - Didn't know it was a real place? - Yeah, it's where the book is based on. Pete says it looks like Versailles. He's got a lot of money. - Sure. - Andrew Lloyd Webber, when they turn up, is overrunning on an interview with a US TV show. So Pete and Jason have to wait. Jason has water. Pete has 11 gin and tonic. (laughing) - He only had to wait 15 minutes. (laughing) - So then Andrew's wife Madeline comes down and they have more drinks by the fire. And Andrew arrives and says, "Should we drive to the local pub?" Right, so Madeline and Andrew bring their Jack Russell along and they're trying to teach this Jack Russell to catch rabbits. So every 50 yards, they're stopping, letting the dog out to practice catching rabbits. - I feel queasy hearing this. - Pete says it's useless at it. On the way back, Pete is getting frustrated with the stop start of the car. - Actually, what did we do? - Yeah. - So he says, "I need a way." He gets out. Whilst doing so, he says, he rings the neck of two rabbits and puts them in the dog's mouth. (laughing) So it would return to Andrew and Madeline with the goods. Pete said he couldn't believe Andrew's delight when they get back to the house. Andrew asks his chef to cook a rabbit fricosite. (laughing) - And he says, "If you can get another dog, "I've got another trick I can show you." (laughing) - The next day, Pete goes to meeting about Rayalways at a friend's house. - Of course. - I was thinking hangover and a wallaby bounces into the room. - He rings his neck. - He rings. - He gets into the chef. - He's friend has there to scare guests with hangovers. - This story doesn't. (laughing) - It's an incredible story. - That is related in, I wish I was me. - Just to be clear. - Of course, yeah. - He's not in Andrew Lloyd Webber's memoirs as far as I'm aware. - Benny made a dent on Andrew Lloyd Webber. - Yeah. So I suppose he didn't know the detail about the 11 Jin and Tonnex, all the detail about the ringing of the. - Ringing of the next. - Andrew Lloyd Webber's anecdote is, I came down, Pete Wormham was a bit all over the shop. We went to the pub and on the way home I'd dog caught a rabbit and we had a rabbit fricosite. - The ringing of the neck of two rabbits is the mad thing. - Needless. - I would say yeah, once you've killed one rabbit, you made your point. - How's he caught a rabbit? - How'd you catch a rabbit? When you're hammered. - Absolutely hammered. - I imagine having that amount of booze in your system probably makes the murdering of an animal easier. - Yeah. - But how are you catching it? Disguise yourself as a carrot? - It's a good story. - It's a great story. - Pete's become a big slab by now. - Yeah, absolutely. - He's almost outgrown his artist in terms of fame. He gets his own TV show, which is called The Hitman and Her. So 1987, Pete is DJing on Radio City in Liverpool, which is, I don't know if he needs to do local radio at the peak of stocking in a warm. (laughing) Was we casely same years at the selling 12 million albums? - He's making millionaires of literally everybody he meets. You know, you've got to have a plan B. You've got to have it local radio to fall back on. - He was under the name The Hitman and he was quite an anarchic show. He produced stuff like Play the only copy of the new Kylie track and then give out radio on his phone number and ask listeners to phone them and ask them why they weren't playing. - Brilliant. - So in 1989, he comes in from a club night, rings a neck of a row. It might be the same night. And he finds there's politics on TV. And he's like, this is absurd. So he contacts David Lidman, Head of Granada TV and suggests a TV show that's carrying on the club at home. He calls it The Hitman and her and Michaela Stracken is the co-host. - She's her. - She's her. - Just a reminder, those clocks have gone back an hour. So an extra hour of nightclub tonight, the time if you want to put those clocks right is 11 minutes, just after 11 minutes to two o'clock. First of all, from Manchester, it's Pete Wartman and Michaela Stracken, The Hitman and her. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - It runs for six or seven years. It's a big kind of after pub hit. - Yeah, it's an underground hit, isn't it? - Yeah, he believes that the late night TV that follows it, I hear the word, et cetera, is ripping him off. He says, "TFI Friday was a posh perfectionist version of what he did." - I think if I was him, you'd like to think, I mean, he paid the way for that kind of telly. - He'd have to be two meter of that, do you? - No, exactly. - Do you know who was a big fan of the show? - Who was a big fan of the show? - Princess Diana. - Of course, Princess Diana. - Her viewing die. - Her viewing die. - Of course. - She was up at 2 a.m. - Oh well, she'd come down in the night to feed her children and watch it. - Oh, yeah, I've cooked that make sense, yeah, yeah. - Pete, do you know how you got through it? Did you want to play your cocaine card? It isn't cocaine. - Okay, so yeah. - Then we're filming it at 2 a.m. - 11 p.m. or whatever, I don't know. - Was it a live show? - I don't know, but I'll tell you that this is a separate anecdote. - He got through it with 11 gin and tonics. - That's his secret formula. - It's very weird to tell 2 anecdotes that both involve you drinking 11 gin and tonics. Sometimes you have to take me 11 gin and tonics to get through the show, still got through it. - You'd be better off not drinking 11 gin and tonics. I think if you're struggling to get through a show and you've had eight gin and tonics, I don't think another three is gonna show you out. But it was a kind of respect to show the prodigy snap and take that, did their first ever TV appearances on it? - Wow. - Matt Aiken said, "Terrible, bloody awful program, awful idea." - Yes. - Boy, jealous, March. - 'Cause you're not the personality. - It's the classic problem. So you've got a lot of the classic problems here. You've got the pop stars that don't want to be managed silently and then you've got the manager who gets two big fris boots. - Who is in himself a brand or wants to sell the brand of him. - And then you've got the songwriters that initially don't want to be appearing but then get quite angry towards the people that are in front of, is all the absolute tropes of the problems that can go wrong in the music industry. - If you were doing all of the work as well, those two guys are, it sounds like doing everything, right? They're playing all the instruments, they're writing all the songs. Pete comes in occasionally with a title, but not always. The pop star has given a lion reading of literary every lion. They're the ones doing all the work. I'm sure they were remunerated really well, but they're not getting the, you've got to understand why that green eyed monster starts to grow. It's like you are unclogged, isn't it? - Very much so. - It's why I have to put it out on my social media. (laughing) It's why I did my four separate Instagram posts to ban it. - They then get, 'cause the stock it can and what was such a big thing, there's a band-aid too that comes along. So band-aid's been a big hit. Chris. Christmas 1985, Christmas 1989, Gild off to sides, I haven't solved. I haven't solved time in here. So I'm gonna do Band-Aid too. And fearing criticism if he just does it again, he brings in sore stocking, get him more. They're keen to get involved, obviously, they want to help and also remember they missed out on Christmas number one last year. And the year before Rick Astley was beaten by the pet shop boys. So they still haven't had a Christmas number one to solve the success. Right, right, right. Pete gets called from Bob Gild off, first of December. Two days later, it's been recorded. Fifth of December, it's played out on Capitol Radio. That's the way they work. Then they forget about it. Then Lenny Henry plays at the Christmas party. (laughing) It's not a great lineup. It's Kylie and Jason. - Bross? - A Briss Rhea, Clifford Richard, Banana Rama. Big fun, Sonia and Bross. Luke Goss records the drums three times, and none of the takes he used. - Oh no. - Poor old Luke. - Poor old Luke. (upbeat music) - I didn't say it. - You were right. - Are you the end of the shoot? Do you turn your part? - I haven't. - We'll be part of the audience. - It's Christmas time. There's no need to be afraid. That's my part. ♪ Christmas, Christmas, Christmas ♪ - Track goes to number one, but it's kind of forgotten. And the press release in 2024 about band-aid, 'cause you remember they did a re-styling of band-aid. - Yeah. - It's been deleted from history. - So it goes straight from that, from the first one to the one with dizzy rascal on. - I suppose it does. Mike Stock takes to Twitter formerly known as X. X formerly known as Twitter, should I say? - Yeah. - The thing is, Sir Bob, while you were outside being fated, lauded, and formed over by the press and TV media, I was one inside putting the whole thing together. - That's his, that's not dissimilar for you. - That's his entire story, isn't it? - It was a Sunday. Coincidentally, it was my birthday. - Oh, no. - You could imagine my surprise to learn that all the effort involved in bringing band-aid too to attention of the world is now being dismissed and reduced to the level of unofficial, a mere footnote in the history of band-aid. I do feel sorry for him, but I feel like - You can't complain you were recording band-aid on your birthday. - No. - That is the definitive first world problem. - Yeah. - Some sort of-- - You're not an eight year old, right? - No. - Most grownups work on their birthday. - It's my birthday tomorrow. I'm working tomorrow. - Yeah, exactly. - What birthday was it as well? Is it a biggie? - I don't know. - Because I don't think you would even mention it's your birthday. - Well, if it's not one of the biggies. - Let me go back. - And that's where Mike Stock was born. - Let's work it out. - Mike Stock was born December 1951. It was his 48th birthday. - I don't think that's big enough. - I don't think it's big enough. But in a way that represents that now Stock Aiken and Warmen are the record industry. They're huge. - Yeah. - So this is their absolute peak, 1989. Some stats. 27% of the whole UK record market is Stock Aiken and Warmen songs. That's over a quarter of record sold in the UK, a Stock Aiken and Warmen records. - I can't. - Written by the same two blood. - I can't work out then if he has a right to be agreed or absolutely no. I literally can't decide if you're dominating it to that level. - Yeah. - Be happy with that. - 24 singles and three albums in that year. The number one independent publishing company in Britain and the number two corporate publishing company. Second only to EMI. This is a quote from Pete Warton to be clear. Only beaten by 2% of the share of the market. EMI to quote Pete had 16,000 writers. I think that's probably an example. - Yeah, that's too many. - That's too many. By 1990, there had been a record produced by Pete in the top 100 every single week from March 1986 to October 1990. It's a mad unprecedented run of success. Possibly, precedented by the Beatles. Well, 87, 88, 89. They won the Ivan Avello Award for Songwriter of the Year. Mike Stock points out, "Learn in a McCartney, only won it twice." And Stock Aiken and Waterman, the only composer won it three times in the row. Pete also claimed that in 1989, they won so many awards in different categories. They couldn't carry them all home. (laughing) For Songwriter of the Year, the Academy announced that because of our total domination that year, they hadn't even asked members to vote and a special recognition for a contribution. They given the award to us. Mike Stock points out that in the third year, the award was joined with George Michael to avoid, in his words, it becoming too political. - I think that's fair. And also George Michael was absolutely massive. - Yeah, it's a quote Mike again from his book. It was an astonishing fact that we were having more hits than the Beatles in their heyday and more number ones. Nobody would say we're bigger than the Beatles, but we certainly had more hits. - It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because the Beatles were still always releasing songs of the Beatles, but it was a spread bet for stockpicking awards. But there were still just two blocs. - Yeah, you're right. It was two. - Who's bringing more? Harrison or Wasserman? - I'd say Harrison. So in a way, the Beatles had more. - Yeah, that's true. They had three songwriters. - Well, this is the peak. And I'd say you can feel in the last year or so, the needle beginning between the three stockpicking awards. And sadly, within a few years, it will end up not only with a dissolution, but with them facing up to each other in court. But that, sadly and quite excitingly and quite bitterly is next time. (upbeat music)