The Hidden Ways to Focus, Stop Spiraling, & Build Wealth: ADHD Doctor Sasha Hamdani

I lost my diamond ring, because I was fidgeting, get fell through the picnic table, fell through the wooden floor, and my whole life, my family, and like, stop fidgeting, you're gonna lose something, give us a $3,500 diamond ring. That is like the ADHD tax. I'm a psychiatrist. I literally have studied ADHD and by the end of this conversation, you're gonna have a better understanding of your brain to help you become hotter, smarter, and richer. I get overwhelmed extremely easily. And my sister knows that I will literally fire off 50 text messages that look like there is a real emergency, but it's so hard when you're in that to actually stop the spiral. Yeah, our vibes are similar. And it's something that you can see a lot in people that are entrepreneurs. They're taking those chances, high risk, high reward. What are some telltale signs that someone is struggling with ADHD and doesn't even know it? But you have to understand that you're wired to process emotional data differently, and I don't think it's always a deficit. Sometimes people can dive into something and get done with a tremendous amount of work at a small amount of time. I just saw a headline that said only two kinds of people will succeed in the AI era. Trade workers or the neurodivergent. But what are things that every single person can do that might not even have ADHD to maintain the healthiest brain possible? Number one. Hi, angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? It doesn't cost you anything. And it is the simplest way for you to support hot smart rich and help us grow so that we can bring you more of the conversations you love. Just hit the subscribe button below. And thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Dr. Sasha Hamdani. Are you ready to get hot smart rich? Yes, that was very exciting. Are you excited to be here? I'm always excited about these things, but especially this one. Oh my gosh, well, thank you so much. If someone just clicked into this conversation, they don't know what to expect. What would you tell them to get them to stay? By the end of this conversation, you're going to have a better understanding of your brain. And that is going to help you become hotter, smarter, and richer. And I want to make a promise to my community that says if they listen to the episode in full, they will also be more productive, save time, and be their most authentic self because they will understand their brain. And I want to start with a little personal story because I am diagnosed ADHD dyslexic. And I don't think I even fully understand my brain. Yeah. And I'm 34 years old. Why do you think there is such a disconnect between something that literally runs our entire body and our knowledge or lack thereof in the world today? I think it's confusing, right? Because when you're in your own brain and all of this stuff is happening, it's really hard to decipher. It's not like you're seeing someone else's behavior. And you're like, this is what's going on. And I could tell what things are impacting it. When it's your own brain, it's so complicated and difficult. I'm a psychiatrist. I literally have studied the brain. And sometimes I'm like, am I sad? Am I hungry? Like, what am I feeling? So it's hard to decipher yourself. And I also think that we haven't as a society been given the tools to be able to educate ourselves about our own internal environment and about our own emotions and about our own brain functioning. I also would say that I grew up thinking that there was something wrong with me when I was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia. I even had family members. That would say things like, it is a crotch. You are completely fine. What are you talking about? You're just disruptive. You don't have an attention span. You're not applying yourself. And I have come to realize that it is a strength of mine. And I was about to use the word superpower. Hate it. Let's talk about that. Because I heard that you hate calling it a superpower. I really hate it. OK, so I couched that. Was saying that I understand why people view it as a superpower. And I actually am a little bit jealous about that because I wish that I could view it as simply as a superpower. But for me, I've had times where I've really struggled with ADHD. And because I've treated ADHD for as long as I have, I've seen other people who really struggle with it. And so it seems like when we just kind of like view it as a superpower, it diminishes the people who are really struggling because it's like, no, this isn't how it is all the time. And so I know that there's a positive reframe to it. And I think that part can be wonderful if you can access it. But for me, I've always viewed ADHD as kind of this, just under a realistic lens. There's some things that maybe aren't so great. And there's some things that are actually wonderful. There's a lot of stuff in my life that I've gotten because of my ADHD. So it just kind of depends. I think a more neutral approach is better. Because when you look at it as a superpower, it's kind of like you have the ability to fly. But you also can't choose when and where you fly. So that doesn't seem like I wish I had a little bit more agency. I don't want to be like blasting off in the middle of a sentence. When you talk about some of the benefits of having ADHD, what are those attention deficit hyperactivity disorder? I don't think it's always a deficit. I think for sometimes people who have ADHD, they can dive into something, especially if it's interesting or if it's new or if there's urgency. Then get done with a tremendous amount of work and a small amount of time. I remember being in high school and I could do like a summer's worth of like work in like three days. Because it would be interesting to me or because I would like what I was doing. I also think that people with ADHD have the capacity to be very empathetic, very creative, have the ability to think outside the box. I think that all of those things together make ADHD really an incredible asset at times. And it's something that you can see a lot in people that are entrepreneurs and who build stuff from the ground up. They're taking those chances, high risk, high reward things. And it works out. You said that you've seen some people really struggle with ADHD. In like a work or a professional kind of capacity, you might notice that they're having difficulty keeping up with the workload or getting chronically overwhelmed. Procrastinating so much that it becomes this problem and it gets delegated to other people and they lose out opportunities because of that. You could see it in a relationship capacity where they feel like because they're incredibly rejection sensitive or because they are having difficulty managing all the tasks and roles of being in a relationship that sometimes they come off as thoughtless and that causes conflict and then they can't handle conflict well. You could see it in regards to things like parenting and relationships like that. Like there's a huge executive load that happens. Not only are you taking care of your brain, you're taking care of younger people's brains. And for a lot of us, we're also taking care of that generation above us. So now you're caretaking for your parents where previously you never had that job. So you have to having to tend to different types of needs. So there's a lot that people could struggle with. For someone that's listening to this, that doesn't even fully understand what ADHD is. How would you break that down in the simplest form? ADHD is a regulation disorder. So we focus really heavily. ADHD saves for attention, deficit, hyperactivity disorder. And we focus really heavily on the attention component, but it's so much more than that. Yes, attention is absolutely a part of it. It's a big part of it. But you also deal with dysregulation of motivation, of energy, of sleep, of emotions, of appetite. So there are many different things being dysregulated at the same time. So when you look at ADHD comprehensively, that's when you get the best picture. I grew up and I didn't know a single other person that had ADHD. So I don't think I've ever said this, but I had to write exams and rooms by myself. So I was single though. I remember having to go and write my exams there and I was given extra time. And I didn't really understand it. And I didn't really have anyone to talk to about it. Yeah, but now I feel like I can't scroll social media without seeing multiple people talk about their ADHD. Are people getting diagnosed with ADHD at a completely rapid rate or are we developing ADHD because of the world that we live in? We are just getting better at picking it up. If you look at the average age of diagnosis for males, it's six to eight. For females, it's mid-thirties. Like we just weren't catching these people. So now I think really during the pandemic shutdown, I think truly that's when things really started coming up more. Everybody had to be by themselves. So they were socially isolating. And then they were on their phones. And that's when you start to have conversations about your internal environment and information was kind of shared. And then ADHD as a diagnosis just kind of exploded because people were curious and talking and they were like, that sounds like me. And this looks like me. And it's entered the conversation more. Physicians are better equipped to diagnose it. And so we're just, it's like saying, are there more stars in the sky? It's like, no, we got better telescopes. What is the biggest difference between men and women and ADHD? Men, historically, they present more as this hyperactive and pulsative type. And for women, they're more the inattentive day dreamer type. So boys and men, typically you're going to see more observable behavior, more disruptive behavior. Women typically don't present that way. But that's not to say that they can't. I did. I was very disruptive. Both of us were like that. We were both disruptive. Like I remember exactly where the guidance counselor in my school was like, you act like a boy at school and I was like, and why is that bad. My parents were so concerned. They're like, you are, because like Anthony would say, Tom Boy, Tom Boy, that's what I always got to. You're a tomboy. And I was like, oh, okay, what are the pieces of misinformation that are just completely untrue as it relates to ADHD? One of them is that you grow out of ADHD. So I think people, and that was like the party line that only kids have ADHD. And I think that was really a confusing thing for clinicians for a long time, because then you, you know, an adult would present, well, maybe didn't have access, like for cultural reasons or financial reasons or whatever, they never got picked up. And so they present as an adult in physicians would be like, no, that's only in kids. That like that was our understanding for a long time. So you can absolutely have it in adulthood. Generally, it has started in childhood. And at that point, it just got missed. So you have to go back and look at patterns, a misconception that it was around for a long time is that only boys have it. That's another one. And that's, that's weird because I feel like my clinical load is so female driven. I see so many women. And I know when I was growing up and I got diagnosed, I truly thought it was only boys. Another one is that the only way you treat ADHD is with medication, false. I think a lot of people actually that detracts them from getting diagnosed because they're like, well, I don't want to be on medication. You can use behavioral strategies, and you can work with optimization strategies to help ADHD for sure. When I was doing research on you, and you started connecting dots between it being a regulation disorder, which is not something that most practitioners are talking about, talking about even the way we take criticism, the way that we deal with sleep with appetite with all of these things, like so many things started connecting for me. So I want to just paint people my story with ADHD, because I think that might help people. I, in grade four, was pulled into the guidance counselor's office, and they were like, there is something we're going to talk to your parents about. They went straight to me right away, which was bizarre. They then go to my parents, and was met with a little bit of hesitation for sure, because it wasn't common back then. Then I took medication from grade 10 until 2024, every single day. And nobody ever sought me down and explained what this was. No one ever explained why I was actually very hyperactive, why I was very distracting in school to people, why I had so much potential. And I don't think that to this day, I fully understood anything about what else was going on in my body until I read your book and literally read the research about you. So I'm hoping that people can really take that away in this conversation to truly understand this is not just about what's going on in your brain. There's so many other aspects to your body that this relates to. Yes. How did that become your thesis? Because so many people are getting missed. I mean, you see it over and over and over again, and you look at ADHD as a whole, women specifically, they're coming in their mid 30s, they've had a kid possibly the kids been diagnosed. They're like the sounds exactly like me. They go to the doctor and the doctor is like, no, that you would have been picked up already. It can't be you put things in perspective. In 2019, Europe changed their criteria for ADHD to include emotional regulation. So like everybody else is kind of on board. I think the US is kind of behind on that. I don't think I know the US is behind on that. In terms of of the book, I started thinking about that because my dad got sick in 2024 and then eventually passed. And it was like this. It was sorry. Thank you. It was this, you know, he was diagnosed with stage one lung cancer. We did all this stuff. And then, you know, we go for he's like, I don't feel well, we go and get scanned again. It was everywhere. He died 13 days later. It was the first time that I was like my emotional status directly impacts my functional status. So if I can't handle something emotionally, I am not able to do all the other things that I could do. Like, for focus in general, if you're the same way, I can find a way to delegate or I can hack my way around it or I can do that. But if there's an emotional component to what I'm going through, it takes up my entire brain. I can't move past that. And so I think that's when I really started looking at emotional sensitivity and emotional regulation, really pushing that forward. So do ADHD people not have the ability to regulate their emotions, sending this struggle with it significantly? And what does that mean? So the way that I kind of looked, because when I was doing this research initially, I was like, what is emotional dysregulation? What is emotional sensitivity? What are all those things? I think when you look at emotional processing, you look at neurologically, how someone is processing their emotions and it comes on a spectrum. If the middle of the spectrum is, you know, something emotional happens, your mood goes up, your mood goes down, and then you kind of move past it. On one side of the spectrum is like apathy or feeling emotionally numb, something emotional happens. You don't really go up or down either way. And then on the other end of the spectrum, which is like where I hang out, something emotional happens. And I feel things quickly and intensely and for a long time. And it's like my entire nervous system is on fire because I'm processing this and dumping out alarm chemicals. And that is kind of the phenomenon that I was like, we need to look into that because for so long, I've been told I was too sensitive, or I need to get over things, or it's not that big of a deal. But I was like, there's something to it because I'm too limited by it. So I, and then when you actually look at the brain, and you look at the research, quite literally, those people are wired to process emotion differently. And is this where you said you can't focus on anything else, so you start to spiral? Yes, all the time. I talk about a concept called rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's your body's response. It's this very robust emotional response to real or perceived rejection criticism disappointment. So you feel like something is going to happen. I'm going to get in trouble. And your brain just starts spinning out of control. You start sending out these alarm chemicals. And it's really difficult to start to gather yourself and allow that logical part of your brain to step in. So you're just kind of spiraling way more than the average person would. And that becomes really problematic when you have to do stuff. I am horrible at that. And my sister, who's my business partner knows that like I will literally fire off like 50 text messages that look like there is a real emergency or there I'm in panic. Yeah. And she kind of now actually says that it's best for me to go through the spiral and not take her with me in it. But it's so hard when you're in that to actually stop the spiral. Why do ADHD people spiral like that? There's so many reasons. But if you go back to neuro anatomy, there are two parts of the brain you really have to think about. Number one is the magdala, which is this little almond shape structure, which is the threat detector in your brain. So when you're like, I'm in a panic, this is a little bit more hyper responsive. Your brain is like everything is dangerous. We're scared about everything. Spin, spin, spin, spin. Second part of the brain you think about is your prefrontal cortex in charge of judgment and decision making and processing. And it's just like that logical part of your brain. That's under reactive. And then the connection between the two is weak. So now you have this hyper reactive emotional side under reactive logical side. So this is going to spin every time. What are some other very clear signs that someone is suffering from this condition that would be logical to the average person, but to an ADHD person are going to give them panic. Okay, I'll get literally embracing your own path without comparison. Every time my parents talk about my cousin's accomplishments, I feel like I shrink, no matter what I do, I'll never be enough. Staying present versus sabotaging the relationship before they could leave. Sometimes they could scare. They're going to leave me. So I push them away first. So it's on my terms. It's another one. It's a party favorite of my 20s, recognizing your value, even when it's overlooked. When someone doesn't acknowledge my effort or forgets to include me, I start spiraling. I feel invisible. And then I feel ridiculous for caring so much. So I think there's so many examples of just things that could trigger this. That sounds miserable. Yeah, it's not great. How does someone love listening to this that resonates with that? How do they overcome those thoughts? Well, I think first is recognizing that this is a neurological phenomenon. Cause like I think if you understand that you're wired to process emotion and emotional data differently, then you don't beat yourself up about it as much. Cause I think for me, what was really difficult and when I've seen with my patients is that I would recognize myself spinning and I'm like, this is so dumb. Like you shouldn't be feeling this way. Like, why do you always do this? And I would just beat myself up, which made it a thousand times worse. And I would wallow in it longer. So I think that helps tremendously with removing a lot of that shame and guilt about it. And then too, I think what is so important and like conceptually, we understand like how we process emotions is neurological so that we can start teaching their specialized tools. And there's stuff you've heard about. You've heard them all over the place. You've heard about taking a walk and using movement. You've heard about taking a deep breath and using mindfulness. These are all things you have heard about and you're probably utilizing. But I think with those skills in the book, those 12 tools that we found, it's all about knowing when to use them is about knowing how to use them. And then about practicing the before you get [BLANK_AUDIO] spot of dysregulation. Your home is probably one of your biggest assets. Yet, so many of us don't realize that we can actually tap into our home's value without refinancing our existing mortgage. SoFi, who's one of our sponsors, offers a home equity loan that helps you access the cash you need often at a lower rate than many other boring options. So whether you're planning a home renovation, consolidating high interest debt, or covering a large expense, it's an option worth exploring. With a SoFi home equity loan, you can borrow up to $750,000, or up to 85% of your home's equity while keeping your current mortgage interest rate exactly the same. 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I have a weird one for you, but I get overwhelmed extremely easily, like to a point where I'm flying to Vegas tomorrow to do a speaking engagement. And I'm going solo and someone just asked me something about the time and the schedule and what I have to be there. And I could feel this thing, like bubbling up in my chest of like, I don't know, I don't know, I'm overwhelmed. What if I'm late? And like the spiral thought starts happening, but it's because it had to do with details and scheduling and timing. And those are often things that I really struggle with. Yeah. Why do ADHD people get overwhelmed so easily? So the way that I look at that is there's there's many different things happening. Number one, if you're asking someone, okay, you have to fly out to Vegas, you have to do the speaking engagement. And these are the things you need to think about. They in their brain usually have like these are the things I need to worry about. This is in the order of importance. And if I don't nail all of these, here are the resources I can go to and I can look at this email and I can look at this for ADHD, especially if there is multiple things happening at once or if there is like some sort of emotional component like I'm already losing my grip on this and this is hard and they're going to think I'm stupid. It becomes harder to remain clear. That threat detector in your brain starts going off. It releases alarm chemicals. You get increasingly more agitated and stressed, which makes it harder for that logical side to kick in and do what it's supposed to be doing. So sometimes it truly does. It doesn't start from an emotional place. It starts from this is executive function stuff. I already struggle with this. But then once you add that layer of I'm losing it, they're going to think I'm dumb. This is like I'm getting overly stressed out. I'm getting overly overwhelmed. I'm going to anxious. You start adding that and then that emotional side of the brain kind of kicks on and the logical side is just like can't keep up. This type of person sounds like someone that could never be high functioning. I got to be honest. Like when I hear us talk about this, I'm like, there's no way these people can run companies. There's no way these people can be in successful relationships. 29% of entrepreneurs have ADHD. What is the flip side to this? How are these people able to be so high functioning in some capacities of their life and then experience everything you've already talked about? Because they just do it alongside. They feel all those things and life can be at times very difficult. But they move on from that and they gain resilience and they start doing other things and funneling their efforts into, this is what I know my brain is going to be good at. And this is what I'm interested in. And they can get done with the tremendous amount of work and a small amount of time. And they really thrive in those kind of situations. Like when you look at entrepreneurs, a lot of them, they're building things and they're less concerned about like, I need to have it absolutely perfect before I do it. They're like, I'm going to learn and go. And that really is such an incredible skill for business because a lot of times it's just that tenacity and getting started and being willing to accommodate and adapt and change where some people might be too rigid to deal with that. When you think about these incredible entrepreneurs who have built these businesses. What makes us attracted to go work for people like that? Because to my sister's point of like even working for me, right? Like it is visionary, it is inclusive, it is like a team that is working on a mission. It's very charismatic. But I have definitely been known to spiral. And I'm very much working right now as a leader on like not taking people with me on that journey. So I guess what are we fascinated with with these incredible entrepreneurs that have ADHD? I think there is a magnetism and there is an energy and there's a passion that if you truly feel it and you feel committed about what you're doing, people want to be part of that. And so I think it's just a very natural thing to feel inclined to want to follow along and be part of that journey. As you're thinking about building up your team as someone that has ADHD, do you want to hire people that have ADHD as well? I do. I think that there is so much positive that you can get from that. If you foster the right environment, if you are passionate, if you if you've built an environment that their brains can flourish, if you are encouraging, if you are giving them the right kind of soil for their ADHD to kind of blossom and grow, I think they are incredible to work with. Can I play devil's advocate to that? Yes. So when I was thinking about bringing my sister into my business, like I'm extremely ADHD and my sister is the complete opposite of it. That's how my sister and I are. It's the best thing because I feel like we have these complementary skill sets and I I think people understand me as a leader more now than they probably haven't added any other podcast episode. And my sister is the one that I always say, like keeps the train on the tracks and is like the yang to the yang. And I can even tell, like can you tell in this conversation that we're both ADHD? Yes. Same. But I like it. Same. But I'm thinking about, okay, if there was two people building a business, like we're thinking about finding a co-founder for our company, okay? Okay. And you're the one that is like this charismatic, visionary, like high energy, can do a million things, but you also have this emotional dysregulation and you can be known to spiral and you might make up scenarios in your head. Two people like that as co-founders, is that a good match? Whether you have ADHD or whether you don't, I think you have to find someone who's skills match each other and complement each other naturally. So I don't think it's as simple as saying this person has ADHD and this person doesn't, because ADHD can present very differently for some person. You can have someone with ADHD. I just think ours presents very similarly, but but I think that there's some people who have ADHD and are just very meticulous about details and like very, you know, they just, they're not hyperactive at all and they're not, you know, but I feel the same way you do. When I was doing my app, Focus Genie, I brought on my sister to help me with that, because she's so in her brain, like, just works like a grid. She's so analytical, so organized, and she, I would like come up with an idea and she's like, okay, here's how we execute it. And so that combination worked so well and that that got it from like an idea to a finished product. But if the question was like just like a general team or are people with ADHD good to work with in general? I think yes. When I feel as though we have very similar ADHD and you agree, what do you mean by that? For people that can't read our energy right now? I mean, our stories are so similar. I got diagnosed in fourth grade. I was hyperactive and impulsive. The teacher brought it up to my parents. My parents were like, yeah, we know. And so like I was starting on medication, I didn't know I was on medication. It was just like something that helped me help, something that helps you with school. So I would take this and I took it every single day. And then I did well enough that I got into this combined undergrad graduate medical school program. So I started medical school classes when I was 18 years old. And when I got there and I was by myself without my parents, I stopped taking the medication, everything fell apart. And then I like kind of fought with it. And I was like, I don't really want to be on medication. I don't want to, I don't believe I have this. I've seen it in other people. I know it's for boys. I don't think this is me. And so then I had to kind of come to my own realization and health journey and things like that. But I think it's led me some places I really enjoy. And also I just think that our vibes are similar right now. - Even the way that like I can see you even doing this with your foot, like you're tapping your foot, which is very me. And I think it's funny because I just had Vanessa Van Edwards on the show. She's one of the number one leading researchers at Harvard about behavioral science and the way that you are presenting yourself in body language. And she said something very interesting where she said, no self touching at work. And I am just known to do this or this or like this. And I'm not nervous. It is a tick. - It's self stimulation. And why are we doing this? - What you're looking at is fidgeting. And fidgeting is really a way, your body is trying to stimulate your brain. And so your body is like, if I stimulate with movement or whatever I'm doing, I'm gonna release more dopamine. It's gonna be usable and you'll be able to regulate your attention better. So you'll notice some of that like fidgeting and stuff increase with goal directed activities. Sometimes like if you're doing something. So if you're like during a test, if you're trying to focus, you're tapping your pencil and you know, things like that. - But I feel so seen right now in a way where I'm sitting across from someone who's extremely high functioning, and extremely intelligent has built multiple businesses. And I think that the, that is still not the norm when you think of ADHD. And I'm just interested in the ways that you feel like we can do a great job today by destigmatizing what it is like to be a high functioning ADHD entrepreneur. - Like I would replace what you're saying, high functioning with high achieving. - I think high achieving, you're looking at like, what is this person capable of? By traditional metrics of like relationship and job and are they making the mark have like, what's happening? But it doesn't describe internally what's happening. So like with functioning, I get into an issue with it because yeah, they could have that external thing but from the functioning perspective, they're not actually high functioning because internally they're not functioning all that well. So that's a distinction I like making. That's why I replaced high functioning with high achieving. - How do you communicate to people in your practices, parents that your child is not lazy? - Yeah, they just have ADHD. - I think when you explain this interest-based nervous system, like your body is with ADHD, you respond to something that is interesting, something that is new or something that is urgent. So if you're telling me this homework is due in like two weeks, like this book project is due in two weeks, like no, I don't care about that. I'm not gonna start that. No, if you tell me this is due by 8 a.m. tomorrow, I'll work on it all night. I'll get it done, I'll finish it. So I think it's a bit of a skill being able to kind of figure out how to work with your brain and some of that is like break it into, so when I started to in medical school, I'm like, okay, I can't get away with doing this the night before because I have to have foundational knowledge. I need to build on this. And so then it became like, okay, I need to do this and create urgent, I didn't know what I was doing at the time, but I need to create urgency in my life. So I had to like take the syllabus and break it down by like week. And I'm like, this week I have to be done my Friday. I would tell someone else about it. I'm like, you have to make sure I get this done. And if not, you have to stand by the door a lot. Like make sure it gets done. And I was so afraid of them wasting time that I would get it done. So I would create these little hurdles that cause urgency, cause interest, cause novelty. I would bribe myself, I would do like, you know, there's, there's things that 80s do people have done for a long time and they don't really know what they're doing or why they're, once I've done with this, when I go to the cops shop, get myself a treat. Like there are things you don't know you're doing, you're creating interest, you're creating urgency. - I would do that as it related to hitting certain milestones at work with luxury purchases. So like when I was in my 20s and I started to achieve things, I was never that person that was like, I'm gonna go buy a Chanel wallet like on a Wednesday. I would tie everything to like, if I do this, I will reward myself with a Chanel wallet or whatever it ends up being. - Which is interesting and enjoyable for you. So you have that motivation to go towards that. If you're like, I just have to get through this work milestone, it's gonna be really hard to push yourself towards that. - My question then relates to this conversation around money and ADHD. What is the research say about how ADHD people treat money? - It depends on their presentation. So like having that hyperactivity, having that impulsivity is not a guaranteed for people. You don't necessarily have to have that for the ADHD diagnosis. There's some people that impulsivity is not really their thing. They're not impulsive when it comes to money. Maybe they're impulsive in other ways. Like they're impulsive in relationships or impulsive in speech or impulsive in other ways. I was previously very impulsive with money. And what I found is that my spending habits were directly related to stimulation. And I didn't know this until I was working on this app. So I was working on this app with my sister and we have this thing called the focus tracker where you put down like this is what my mood was like today. This is what my focus was like today. This is what my impulsivity was like today. And then it ties it to sleep and food intake and water. I was looking and I was tracking this over time and I was like, "God, the last four days of the month, I'm so impulsive." And then I tracked it back and I was like, "Oh my God, that's related to my cycle." And then, "Oh my God, I go into my credit card statements." And I was like, "There is like a two-fold bump in how much I spend in those four days because I'm literally sitting on the couch." And I'm like, that's when I online shop and I'm stimulating myself that way. So that's when I get in trouble. So you're saying that if you have ADHD and you don't want to spend money, stimulate yourself in other ways. - Yeah, I mean, you can. Wow. With impulsivity, that's why, with medication, when you're appropriately stimulated or when you're appropriately regulated, your impulsivity goes down. So if you're finding an alternative method to stimulate you and you feel more regulated, you're not gonna feel that drive as much. - Have you heard of this thing called the ADHD tax? - Yes. - And I pay it constantly. - Can you explain what it is? - So ADHD tax is the money that you unnecessarily spend because of some sort of executive dysfunction. So examples of that are unused gym memberships. Lost wages is a big one. I mean, things that you miss opportunities, mistakes of work, I think doctors visit the cost of medication, parking tickets and speeding tickets and unpaid tickets, there's so many things. You forgot or you didn't return something in time. Like those are all expenditures that continue to add up. - You will appreciate this more than anyone else. I used to have a diamond ring on my pinky and it was like $3,500. - Okay. I was fidgeting so much at a dinner in this summer that my ring fell through the picnic table, fell through the wooden floor of the restaurant and it was on a roof, lost my diamond ring because I was fidgeting and I was with my family and you know my whole life they've been like, stop fidgeting, stop fidgeting, you're gonna lose something. I've never to this day lost anything until this summer when I couldn't leave my rings alone that I lost like I think it was a $3,500 diamond ring. That's so painful. By the way, like it was the sweetest thing I was at this dinner and this like old man, it was in cottage country and this old man's like, I have my tool belt in the car. You want me like get it out and like pop up the boards and I was like, no, no, if you end up going to that effort your daughter should keep the ring. And then the owner of the restaurant literally DMed me the next day and was like the guy found your ring do you want it and I was like, let him give it to his daughter. - Oh, isn't that a crazy story? Do you think that AI will help ADHD people with things like this? - I don't know enough. - I don't know enough to be able to be thoughtful about that. I think I'm so conflicted about that. It's role to actually be super helpful versus not helpful 'cause I just, I don't have my finger on the pulse of it yet. - I was fascinated so apparently according to this study, 78% of neurodivergent employees will use AI tools at work compared to only 59% of neurotypical employees, which I can say maybe from my own experience, like I have been loving AI for myself because my email inbox is a scary place. And having AI help me organize, make sure things don't fall through the cracks, is just a level of sophistication that I haven't had because even training executive assistant to assist me is much more difficult, I would say, for an ADHD person and some of that's neurotypical. I just saw a headline that said planters billionaire CEO says only two kinds of people will succeed in the AI era trade workers or the neurodivergent. My fear is that, you know, you look at some of these studies, MIT released a study where they were talking about use of AI and they compared it to just using your brain versus using Google versus using AI. There's, you know, if you're using it for like executive function and those like menial tasks, maybe that's different, but if you're using it for like creative and heavy workload functioning things, I think that can be really difficult because there's very little retention that happens. 1000% agree, like we at our company, you cannot use AI for creative ideation, you can use it to actually help an idea go from an actual human idea into a difference type of format. For example, we actually use an AI where it takes all of my TikTok videos that is not using AI, and then it will just script it for LinkedIn. So it's like taking my original thought, but it's actually just putting it in a tone of voice that will work for a professional crowd. That I think is actually okay, you know that rent and mortgage payments have got to be the least sexy thing we spend our money on, but they're a necessity. You have to pay them whether you like it or not, and with our sponsor built, you can earn points on rent and mortgage payments to put your words the nicer and finer things in life, like flights, hotels, that hot yoga class you've been putting off and more. And I love that idea because it's kind of like your housing payment takes care of the responsible stuff and Bill gives you a little something for the fun stuff. Bill can make other parts of where you live more rewarding to just download the build app, link a debit or credit card and ask the neighborhood concierge pretty much anything. It can tell you about exclusive benefits at restaurants, fitness studios, and more around your home. Download the build app and join the membership for where you live at joinbelt.com/HSR. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash HSR and make sure to use our URL so they know that we sent you. A few months ago, I come downstairs and Courtney is answering emails and chugging out of our olive oil bottle. I was intrigued, kind of disgusted, but very curious. So I started looking into the benefits I found the most chic brand that fits into my hot smart rich life with Alia Health. Alia makes these daily olive oil shots from a rare Tunisian olive that's naturally really high in polyphenols, which are nature's best medicine that helps to naturally lower your inflammation in your body. Even before they became a sponsor, I've been taking one before I eat and I've actually noticed less bloating and fewer sugar cravings. I cannot eat without these now. And with my ADHD, I'm loving these for a clear head and more steady focus. I love that I only need one shot a day and I don't have to worry about poor digestion, bloating, or fatigue anymore. And they taste amazing smooth buttery with that little peppery kick. So all of us have officially made it from my wedding into my daily routine. And I'm giving my angels a code for 20% off. Just use HSR at Alia Health dot com, but let's talk about other ways to manage ADHD. AI is one that I found a lot of success with. I also was on medication for two decades. Yeah. And I remember feeling like I was super focused, but I couldn't think clearly towards the last few years of being on medication. For people, I don't know what the medication is actually doing to your brain. What is it doing in your brain? And so if you're looking at stimulants, there was this paper that came out of Washington University and it actually looked at how does stimulants work in the brain. And it works in two different ways. Number one, to increase alertness in the brain. So it literally fights off sleepiness cues. And number two, to push you towards reward to help with motivation. The issue sometimes with stimulants is that it's a pretty short window, like even if you have a long acting one, it's not going to give you all day coverage. And that's good. You don't want to be stimulating 24 hours a day. But sometimes what people realize with that is that eventually over time, because you do build the tolerance to these medications, is that your level of functioning when you feel like I'm on medication versus I'm not medication, it feels like there's too much of a contrast. And eventually as this part stops working as well, it can sometimes make you feel foggy and tired. And you just don't have that kind of. But you had previously, I felt that 100% my weekends were hell. I went to India and I decided that I was going to not even tell my boyfriend at the time now my husband that I was going to try to quit my medication. Because I figured I was already going to be jet lagged. I was like, I've been on this for two decades. I will probably have withdrawal. Like I'll just try to do it. So if I fail, I haven't had to admit it to anyone and I literally was able to successfully wean myself off of it, just by, well, not even we myself off of it, just cold turkey, not use it again to like it took me a very long time to be self motivated again. Yeah. How do you make those decisions to know if it's right for you always try to recommend either starting with behavioral modification. And then kind of if that doesn't work or if it's too hard or if you can't access them because of that level of dysfunction, then starting to talk about medication. So you try to start with that. I have someone in my family that takes ADHD drugs today. And what we notice is that they are extremely abrasive and short when they are taking their medication. And we're trying to figure out does the benefit offset the costs that we all feel by being around someone we know that they're on their medication that they're very abrasive, they're very short tempered, they're very aggressive. Is that a normal side effect of ADHD medication. What I would tell you is that means it's the wrong medication. Correct medication management, you just feel like yourself, but on a good day, but that irritability and that shortness and things like that. Typically, and I'm not totally sure what's happening in this situation, but sometimes we see that when people are being overstimulated, how does ADHD affect relationships. Pretty comprehensively because I think when you look at ADHD as a regulation kind of thing, you have to look at it in terms of how do you interact with this other person, how do you communicate with this other person, what are your expectations of this other person. And then how do you learn how to share space, and I'm assuming romantic relationships, but how do you learn how to occupy space and existence and like accommodate for somebody else in your life. I think that's hard, especially if you're trying to manage your own executive dysfunction and emotional regulation during that time, it can be difficult. For example, a lot of times what you see is like a breakdown in communication. I know that I'm very emotionally sensitive. My husband doesn't have ADHD and so there are things that he says that are totally neutral, that if it hit me on a different day, I wouldn't respond to it. And then there are some days where I hear that and it's devastating to me. And then I like kind of shut down and I'm quiet and I like it's hurt me and then we have to kind of work through that and talk about it. There are other things that happen in terms of like going back to the impulsivity and distractibility. I mean, I wish I could bottle up the beginning part of relationships. Like it's so addictive and fun and wonderful and just like it's it is like a complete dopamine overload. It's so stimulating. But then you move into the more stable parts of your relationship and you're like the fires gone like this is this isn't what I felt before like I don't have the butterflies this must be the wrong relationship and they leave it's confusing because you're like what's dopamine what's love what what's right what's wrong. And so it's gaining a little bit of self trust. How do you recommend ADHD people disclosed to their partners that they have ADHD. I mean the way that I did is it was a problem. We were trying to do long distance and like he had a two hour time difference and I was like straight up forget about like he wasn't with me. So I would forget to call him back and then by the time I remembered I'm like one a.m. Your time. You know, and so like you do things and you like kind of forget. And then with the emotional sensitivity part like we were just like if we had conflict I was like you're being rude literally no I'm not. And so then we'd have to like kind of figure out how to work our way through it. If you are having a conversation with your you know partner and you're trying to tell them about ADHD. You're like listen I have navigated through my whole life and I value this relationship. But I need to tell you the way that my brain is wired I have ADHD I respond to things differently I respond to emotional things differently I respond to like day to day tasks differently. And I want to make sure that you know I'm I'm trying really hard in this relationship and I'm being respectful but there's some things that are hard for me. And then I think what the natural progression from there is is that it becomes kind of a collaborative kind of thing like what can I help you with. And then that opens up dialogue. Do you recommend that there's a good time in relationships to do that before there becomes problems. I don't think I've been in a situation or I don't remember feeling anxious or embarrassed about talking about it with people but I know some people definitely are. So I think you have to feel it out within the relationship and see how you feel. But I think it does give the other person definitely a better lens of how they look at your behavior. Let's play this out where it's the boy that has ADHD. Okay. And we're the girl that is starting to really fall for this guy. But he's not calling us. He's not doing these little thoughtful things. He's maybe not able to regulate his emotions very well and is very sensitive. How much of that do you ascribe to like, this is just the way that the person is? He has ADHD or how much of it is like, he's just not putting in the effort. I want someone that's gonna call me before I fall asleep at night. Like how do you find that balance when you're dating someone that actually does have ADHD? You look at kind of behaviors like that and you look back at that interest-based nervous system. So if as the girl, you're talking to this guy and you've already had this conversation about ADHD, you know he has ADHD and it's still continuing to happen, you can say, these are the things that I kind of expect and I want out of a relationship and I, you know, like this is how what makes me feel loved. And if he shows like a true effort into making that happen, great, if he's like, that's really hard for me because I literally don't even know what time it is. Like I can't keep track of time. I can't then show me a different way that you can give me those same feelings and make me feel loved. Like prove it to me some other way. So I don't think that this is ever going to be this get out of jail free card. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. That's what I was gonna ask, 'cause I think one of the misconceptions at the beginning was that you can grow out of ADHD but how much of the things that you don't love about yourself from your ADHD can you actually change the behavior of? You have the capacity to change your brain and to use behavioral techniques to actually alter behavior and neural pathways. That is something we are capable of doing. And so the difficulty in that is kind of gaining that consistency and continuing to lean in on this path where maybe you're not getting a huge dopamine rush and it doesn't feel fun. Making things into habit, it's probably not gonna be fun. It's probably not gonna be easy but people are capable of doing it and building supports that you can do it. And generally what I tell people is like habit stacking so that things become more automated and automatic. Those are things that could potentially help. And then once they become cemented, I mean, you can change your neural pathways with that. Were you always late growing up? Yes. And I'm late now. Although I was like 15 minutes early today. Well, so that's why I was gonna bring this up because I used to be notoriously late. Like you couldn't catch me early that anything I was usually 20 to 45 minutes late for stuff. Yeah. And so this was something that I knew was gonna hold me back and I actually was so not proud of at all that I made a commitment to myself over the last few years that like I would tell myself that things were happening 30 minutes before they were happening. I am very rarely late. And the reason I ask you that now is when I saw your car outside 15 minutes early, I was like, she must be like me. So it changed. So truly, I was late all the time. Social engagement, everything. It changed when I started taking care of patients in an outpatient setting because I was like, I cannot be late for this. I can't, like I have patients who are waiting on me who have taken time out of their day to drive here to see me. I can't even take a minute away from their appointment. So I think that was my gateway into being on time. And if I've learned anything today, it's because you made it urgent and you made it. And it was, I was accountable for other people. And so it was interesting to me to have them be happy about me showing up. Like, is so there was an urgency that I had to be there. I have to ask you about brain health. And like what are things that every single person can do that might not even have ADHD? How do you work out your brain? The same way we work out our body to maintain the cognitive function to have the healthiest brain possible. Sleep. Like if you go back and look at that washy study where it's talking about why stimulants work so well. And you're saying that if fights off sleepiness use, it made every psychiatrist look again at what they prioritize is important. Sleep is so important. It is quite literally the only thing that's going to give you energy. So like you can take caffeine, you can take stimulants, you can take all those things. It's going to prevent you from feeling sleepy, but it's not giving you energy. Eventually that tap is going to run out and you're going to feel tired again. So when you sleep, you actually give your brain time to restore and respond and figure out how to allocate resources for the next day. It clears out toxins. You are doing a tremendous amount. And that's hard because sleep is so boring. I get my best ideas at night. I'm not tired. So I think this is like one of the best things you can do for your brain health is just prioritize sleep. How do you have a sleep routine to get the right amount of sleep that you need for your brain? I'm going to say something that people are going to hate. I have to be away from my phone. And that's it's really hard because my phone is my alarm. But I put it in a different room and I plug it in while I'm still like in the living room and hanging out. And then I and then I will go into the bedroom and my alarm is already set automatically. So I don't really access my phone because there's interesting stuff in there. OK, and that's not something that I try to do as much as possible. And I fall off the wagon a lot. But I feel like when I go through patches of time where I really prioritize my sleep, my brain absolutely works better than next day. And I feel like I look better. You do when you sleep. Well, I want to throw my phone into the sun. There's like I don't like it. It's so it's so easy for me to lose time on my phone. All of my work lives on my phone. Like I know I need it. And I feel like very unnecessarily tethered to it. So I feel like it's a leash. I don't love it. And I also do kind of love it at times. It's a problem. This is why I love my husband so much because no one interested me that I would want to get off my phone until I met him. Whereas now when I'm with him, I do not care about my phone to the point where like my team will be like harassing me to return messages. But I'm just so interested in my husband that like I don't really care to be on my phone at all. I know. So I feel like finding things that interest me in the real world is difficult because it's so much more interesting on my phone except for these very few things that I do find very interesting. And this is why I think ADHD people have these hyper fixations because we find such few things interesting that we become obsessed with them. What is your current hyper fixation? My daughter recently got into like this like air like air dry clay. And I was like, this is awesome. And like it's like dries and it's so light and it's so fun. I've been doing a lot of writing. I've been doing a lot of painting, which I really enjoy. And I've been doing more acrylic than oil. And I think there's something just like very therapeutic about taking out my paints and picking the colors I want and not really having a plan and if things mess up, I'm okay. And so I think as long as I have time to do that, I really like it. Dr. Sasha Hamdani. Is there anything that we haven't talked about today that you would feel sad leaving if we didn't cover? No. I think we got it. We got a lot. Yeah. Okay, well, we're gonna have some fun and do some rapid fire then. Love. Dr. Sasha. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? Gluten free bagel. Are you gluten free too? Are you celiac? No. I'm not. I'm just gluten intolerant. What gluten free bagel? Yeasty boys. Love that. They have a gluten free one. It's amazing. It's so soft. Can't really get it tomorrow. Yeah. What is the most expensive last thing you put on your credit card? I bought a suit for my bookside and from Veronica Beard. Love that. And I was just like, you know what? I just can't waste more time on this. What is the most impulsive purchase you've ever put on your credit card? Impulsive in terms of like that was weird or impulsive like that was expensive. Both or one or the other. Okay, impulsive, weird. I went out to get mine carrots and ranch. Came back with two kittens that I put on the credit card. Cats. Two small cats that are still, you know, that is so ADHD. Yeah. And I was like, I guess this one like had no plans. That wasn't part of the journey. No litter box, no food. I was like, all right, come on. You went out for ranch and carrots and you came home with kittens. In all fairness. I'd been going through a break up and I was like, I need these. What are some of your best tips to hack an ADHD brain? Using brain dumping at night. Find something that you naturally enjoy and can maintain some sort of consistency with. And whether that's like walking with a friend or doing something. What about doing hard things first? I think sometimes when you phrase it like that, there's some people that depending on the day that they're totally capable of that. There's some people that if you start with the very hardest thing first, it is so daunting and so difficult that they lose momentum and they're paralyzed for the rest of the day. Sometimes when I realize that that is too hard, I go back and I do something really easy and dumb. And that's why I make my bed every morning. It's like my way to start the day with like this little wind, something I could check off of my to-do list. I did this and so then you can go about your day. Tell in a first date you have ADHD or keep it a secret for the rest of your marriage. Oh, it's hell about the first date. I probably would do that anyway. You can only pick one for the rest of your life, run 30 minutes late or get there an hour early. I mean, I'd rather be early. Love that. I mean, it's just a waste of time, both of them are waste of time, but like, okay, but like it's so much easier. better because I can't even think about being that late for a patient. No, I can never do it. We do these things called H.S.R. love notes to retrain my toxic brain and my Spirals. Okay, so if you could only tell yourself one, H.S.R. love note for the rest of your life, what would it be? It would remind myself to be kind like I am to other people because I don't do a lot of that to myself as I do for like my loved ones. And if you had to title this season of your life, what would it be called? Like sweat. So sweaty and anxious. I get that's probably what it would be. Dr. Sasha Humdami, I am obsessed with you. Where can people find you and how can H.S.R. help you? I am on all the socials under the psych doctor MD. Oh, get this. Too sensitive. Here we go, because I love it. And I think it is really good for anyone who has been dealing with just feeling emotionally sensitive and it gives you actual tools. It helps you implement them in a way that you're not already like dysregulated. And I mean, this was so helpful for me. I wish I had this 20 years ago. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you. (upbeat music)