The Hidden Murderer - Fairbanks, Alaska

[MUSIC] Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and choo-choo. Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another insane, crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express, and it's a little bit special today because today is our 700th episode, everybody. Holy shit. 700 we've made it to, which is incredible. Thank you. We couldn't be at 700. If no one was listening, we wouldn't have done 200, never mind 700. So thank you so much for being here and listening to these and for people who've heard all 700. Man, thank you. You're incredible. So we're going to have a wild one today. Before we get to all that, though, shut up and give me murder.com is where you get your tickets for live shows, also merchandise, all the merchandise you can buy. But tickets for live shows looks like May 30th and Royal Oak has sold out, so thank you. Wow. 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Every damn thing we put out, including as soon as you subscribe, you're going to get hundreds, almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. And you get those immediately and then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports and one small town murder and you get them all, everybody. Yeah. This week is no different for crime and sports this week. We are going to talk about that weird, the power team. They were they were on all the Christian channels and they were these giant jacked up, righted up lunatics that would like rip a phone book in half and then go, "Thank you, Jesus." They were nuts and then of course they were scandal obviously because that's not going to, that's not going to be no scandal involved in that. It's a lot of fun. Then for small town murder, it's internet salad time. Hey, it's back. A lot of people were disappointed. We were not doing that this week, but we'll do it the next one and anything on anything that's happening in the world that does nothing to do with politics because maybe you probably hear enough about that. We will look it into all that patreon.com/crime in sports is where you get all of that. Plus on top of all that, you get everything we put out all our shows, crime and sports, your stupid opinion, small town murder, all add free with your Patreon. That's right. And then also you'll get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will mispronounce your name even though he'd love to get a correct. So that said, I think it's time everybody. Let's go. Sit back. Here we go. Let's clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Let's do this everybody. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Now let's go. Let's go. We're going far this week. We're going to Alaska. God damn. It's been a while. So I'm like, you know what, for 700, let's go to Alaska. There are always crazy episodes up there because just to be it, just to have the thought that I'm going to go to Alaska, that's a screwy thought right there. That's a wild place, man. It's beautiful and everything. But it's a wild out there. I mean, it's not easy to live up in Alaska. So right there, get the craze so so removed. It's so remote from everything. Yeah, this is in Fairbanks, Alaska, which I've actually heard of. Some of these I have heard of. This is an Eastern Alaska. It is really in the middle of nowhere this place. It's by itself. I mean, you hear like, well, you can see it from here. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You hear like, you know, Fairbanks, Anchorage, Juno, and you think they're probably in the same general region. Alaska is enormous. And it's so huge. So this is about six hours and 15 minutes to Anchorage. It's 20 minutes to North Pole, Alaska. Wow. That's what we're talking about. And then it's about 12 hours to our last Alaska, last Alaska episode, Klawak, Alaska. But the 12 hours is like planes and boats and you can't just drive there. Oh, that's the craziest. You got to take so many forms of transportation. It's crazy. That was episode 644, the social media mob murder. Remember that when they killed that old man over. Oh, they fought those people. They thought maybe he did something in spread rumors about it. We're unsubstantiated. That was rough. And that's that's why whenever we see like, I whenever people post like they'll post in all our groups and stuff, somebody kills like, you know, this guy who like did this. And I'm like, calm down everybody. You know, let's let's prove it first. And then we'll kill him. How about that? But don't just kill him ahead of time because we don't know. Yeah. It's out the window. That was a hundred years ago. That's what I mean. So this is the burrow. It's not a county. It's a burrow is fair banks north star. That's the burrow. Okay. Area code 907. A lot of people here, 33, thousand, 18 people have found their way to this place. Why we know about it. median household income, 66,572 dollars. So the fuck does pretty close to the national average median home cost, 275,600 dollars. I would think households would be more expensive because they'd be really expensive to build there just to get materials in. And yeah, all of that. It has nicknames this place. One is the golden heart city. Sure. And then the other one is pretty similar golden heart of Alaska. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of gold up there. A lot of golden. That's how the place started as we'll talk about with a little bit of history right there. Thank you. That was a perfect session. August 1901. ET Barnett founded a trading post on the south bank of the Chenner River and a gold discovery near the trading post sparked the big fair banks gold rush. Yeah. And that's when miners started coming here. Yeah. They had a big boom in construction. In November 1903, the area's residents voted to incorporate fair banks and make it an actual place here. Barnett became the first mayor. Oh, and things went great while the gold rush was going on. Thank God for ET. Yeah. Then World War One happened. Uh oh. And the population plunged because all those able-bodied young miners got drafted. And that's it. And then it rose again the population during the Great Depression because the price of gold increased so people were looking for gold. Then in the 40s and 50s, it became kind of a staging area for military depots during World War Two. And then for the Cold War Two, because Alaska's close to Russia, so that was another big deal there. And then there was the discovery of the Prudo-Aubay oil field in 1968. And then that became a big part of the oil boom at that point too. And so, you know, is Alaska the largest state? I believe it's bigger than Texas, yeah. I think that's true, right? I think that's true. Yeah. Until 1940, none of the streets and fair banks were paved. None of them. Till when? 1940. Holy shit. They didn't begin a large-scale paving operation until 1953 when the city paved 30 blocks of streets. For 13 years, they were just really paving here and there. Yeah, just if people wanted to, yeah, exactly here and there. It wasn't a project or anything like that. By the way, fair banks mathematically is the coldest city in the United States. Freezing there. I mean, negative 50 is normal. That's fucking crazy. Reviews of this town. There we go here now. This will exactly of what we just talked about. The title of this review is Plug In Your Vehicle exclamation Point. Oil will freeze. Your block heaters you need. Yeah. You need to plug in your vehicle for almost half the year here. You also need a remote auto start if you don't have what it takes to handle a hard seat at negative 40 degrees. Hard seat. Yeah. Your seat's frozen. So you said, I hate. Be sure to use zero weight oil and multiple, multiple viscosity oil for the drivetrain also. Go to Alaska intent and tarp to get a grill cover for your car as driving 50 miles an hour has the windshield factor of negative 88 hitting your radiator when the ambient temperature is at negative 40. Your Anna freeze will still freeze will freeze. Yeah, it's not made for this anti get a grill cover for it. Keep the evening. Summers are like heaven on earth. The four days of summer, I feel like the irises are fleeting. The tourist abound and there's actually thunder here along with a once or twice a year heavy rainfall. I miss the summers there, especially the solstice street party when it's in the plus 90 degree range. When I rode a Harley to work, the northern schools federal credit union time and temperature said 95 degrees when my ex-girlfriend from Kentucky was here for Christmas. It was easily was below zero and at times negative 10 to negative 20. It can go from negative 20 a 95. Yeah, yeah, that's not normal though. That's a whoo. Then I'll do another one very quickly, two stars. Fairbanks is a dumpster fire just waiting to happen. And by that, I mean, it's just not like it used to be. It used to be safe. I'd even walk around downtown by myself as a kid or with a friend who was about the same age. I used to always say fair banks is a town that seems to be stuck in time and not just the town, but the people as well. Then they talk about black mold and asbestos and prime rates. People are complaining. Things to do here, though. This is very exciting. The redneck space needle is here. What is that? That's a local nickname for a guy, Jim Curly Rowland. And his house is Curly's rotating house, which is a structure he built in 1997. The guy's a gold miner. And it consists consists of a blue 16 sided clubhouse perched atop a 75 foot construction crane. Seven. Oh, great. What? It's just sitting in the air. This like a brain observation site. I don't know what he's doing here. That's not meant to stay there forever. No, it's been there for 30 years. So that is crazy. The house was built using a salvaged crane tower from Anchorage and was designed to both elevate guests 75 feet into the air and rotate. Are you out of your fucking mind? It was originally conceived as a private clubhouse for rolling in his friends, born from a mix of what he called, quote, boredom and Budweiser. They got shit faced in the middle of nowhere. We're like, what if we just put like some real hype in the air? We could all sit in the air. I'm going to put my fucking house up there. That'd be better. It's still standing invisible from the road, but not a public tourist attraction. It's not a private property and it's unsafe. Well, in 2004, a friend of the owner fell off the platform and died because it's 75 feet and that led to the house being used less frequently for parties. You know, not as fun anymore. They also have the world Eskimo Indian Olympics up here as well. All right. And yeah, which sounds like something native Olympics. Yes. Sounds like something your grandfather would say. What do they got? Some Indian Eskimo Olympics up there or something. They all they'll go around with dog sleds and shit. I don't know what happens up there. That's what it seems like. So they have a chance to be first. Oh, ancient games like the high kick, the blanket toss. I don't want that. It's got smallpox. You take it. Is that the blanket toss? That's the fuck is that? And four man carry along for me. I don't know what that is. But okay. Murder. Here we're here to talk about. Let's talk about some murder. Okay. Monday, April 26th, 1993. Yeah. Let's go to them 2 p.m. Here we go. Now 2 p.m. Things are going fine. The University of Alaska Fairbanks. Oh, yeah. Bartlett Hall is the dorm that we're at here. Oh boy. It's eight stories of dorms basically built into a hillside here where there's a warmth. Yeah. There's three different dorms that all share a lobby of these buildings. They all come to one lobby. The spring semester is one week away from finals. So people are already packing up, getting ready to go home. On the second floor of Bartlett Hall, which is all female floor, by the way. There's a janitor name, Akcha and that and Chetta, Akcha and Chetta. And she's working her way doing the woman's bathroom, which has to be a horrible task. It's a clean of any college kids, multiple person bathroom, a shared bathroom. That sounds horrible. So she's doing the toilets and her partner. She's got a partner there doing the toilets and she's doing the showers and the bathtub room. Yeah. Okay. There's a little private room with a single tub in it that has a curtain and the curtain is closed, but the light is on. Now what she says is later on, she'll say this, quote, some shower room curtain is just open and some shower room is usually open, but that time was closed. And then when I opened the curtain and then I saw, I was screaming. When I open and then there's a bathtub, then I saw a young lady laying down. That's in broken English, by the way. She's not like, you know, not like she can't form a sentence. It's just not her first language. So she usually to usually open, this one was closed. She opens it, find out a woman laying down, not normal. So she runs out of the bathroom, screaming, grab somebody else and grab and drags them in the bathroom to look at it. I don't want to see it. Make sure I'm not crazy. I think that's all it is. Make sure it's one of these. Like if you're like in an old cartoon, when like a drug sees, when a drug sees like, he clipped, talking to his pals or something. They're all like, what the fuck can they throw the bottle away? It's one of those. But no, so within minutes, the building is cops are there. It's a big deal. In the bathtub is a woman, a young woman, 20-year-old named Sophie Sergi, as her name, S-E-R-G-I-E is her last name. She is, and I looked up the pronunciation and I, wow, it is a tough one. She is a native up here. The tribe is the Y-U-P apostrophe I-K. But I looked it up and it says, like, cup, cupic, cupcake, but the Y is a C. I don't know. It might be a K. Yeah. Yeah. So it might be cup, cupcake or cupcake, cupcake, cubic. I'm not sure how exactly pronounce it because I tried, I looked and I tried. And the people pronounce it differently, too. Yeah. I'm fascinated with the language, too, because it is the most indecisurable thing to us. Yeah, I don't know. For a white man to try to figure out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's impressive as fuck that they can rattle it out so fast. Such an old language, you know what I mean? So it's put a lot in there. Now, it's a 20-year-old woman. She's 20-year-old years old, like I said, her name, Sophie. She's been brutalized in here. I mean, absolutely brutalized. First of all, she was raped number one, which is horrible. Then it gets worse somehow. She was stabbed in the face twice in the corner of her left eye when she was still alive. Oh, Jesus. She's also been beaten with a, with a blunt instrument and gagged with a ligature as well. All right. So this is horrible. She's also been shocked with a stun gun. Oh, this is how many weapons does this person have on them? Honestly, yeah, this is crazy. Yeah, it's got a utility belt with a shit off. And then finally killed with a single 22 caliber round to the back of the head. So we got a gun now, too. Gun, too. A gun, a knife, a blunt instrument, a ligature and a stun gun. He brought a whole supply bag. Yeah, that's what I mean, which is crazy. The 22 caliber round was finally the cause of death after all that horror she was put through. She's been in the bathtub. They think for about 12 hours. It's hard to tell. It's real mad, too. That's not just a normal. It's five kinds of horrible. I mean, it's six. If you add rape, too, I mean, that's an act not a weapon, but still it's horrifying. You think you're going to die when it's happening. It's fucked up. That's fucking horrible. So, and 12 hours, they can't really tell exactly because time of death is hard to nail down. Anyway, even now it's hard to nail down, but when they've been in water, in water, that doesn't help at all as well. Now, let's find out about this young lady and what happened here. So Sophie Sergees born June 4th, 1972 in Pitcus Point, Alaska. Pitcus Point is a, God, I'm going to say it wrong again. Cup, Cupcake, Cupcake village on the lower Yukon River here. They're the largest, largest Alaska native group, by the way. Oh, is that right? Absolutely, into like, you know, they've been doing, basically they've been in the region for 10,000 years. Wow, long time. When Sophie was born, the population of her town was about 70 people. And it grew to like 250 over the years, but small, little tiny place. So like University of Alaska must have seemed like a giant city to her, compared to where she's from with 50 people there. Now, she helped her mother Elena run the household and she helped raise her younger brother. She's real small. She's four foot nine. Really? Yeah, that's small, you know, very small four nine. It was for a young lady here. And everybody said that she's small, but was very personality, big personality, and a lot of spirit to her and shit like that. She wanted to join the Navy. That was her dream. Really? She wanted to be in the Navy, but they told her she was too short to do what she wanted to do with the Navy. Not allowed to do that. You can't load the missiles. You can't reach that for whatever role she wanted, who knows? So she decided instead to study marine biology, which is pretty cool. She liked whales and liked, you know, ocean type things. And up there, they've got so much wildlife. So much wildlife. If you're interested in that, she ends up getting a scholarship from BP, British petroleum, gives scholarships to natives to study shit like that at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. So she enrolled in 1990 and she had been at a high school for two years. I think she dropped out in her sophomore year and then finished or something. She's the first person in her family going to college. Yeah. And really everybody in her 70 person village is like rooting for her as she goes, because she's going to college. You know, with you have a village of 70 people and you're all from the same the same tribe and you're whatever you're all from the same group and all that, you're going to root for people as they go. It's going to be. And as the yeah, as the first of family to go to, that's pretty impressive. - Yeah, I'm gonna be like that at one of those old time movies when the kids going to like play basketball at some college and all the people are at the train station waving to them and shit at the end, that's what it's like. Now, her best friend Shirley here, Shirley was suly was also from this area and worked there. And she said this, she said, "We were so afraid of failing. We had to make sure we got through school because otherwise our future was home. Our future was in a 70 person fucking town in the middle of nowhere." Yeah, she said, "Not that home was a bad place, but we had hopes and dreams and we wanted to do things." - Right. - Understandable. Sophie did very well academically. Her native studies professor at UAF said, "She always had questions. She always wanted to learn more after class." December of 1992, she's a sophomore in college and she got braces. - Yeah. - Needed braces, wanted them for a long time and finally got 'em. - 20 years old, ready to do it. - Yeah, and they're not, they're expensive too. So she ended up taking the spring 93 semester off to pay for her braces. She went home, she had two jobs, working as a teacher's aide at the Pitcus Point School and worked in a clerk in nearby St. May. It worked as a clerk in nearby St. Mary's as well so she could pay for the orthodontics. Now braces need adjusting. All the time. Periodically, she had to fly back to Fairbanks 'cause that's the only way to get there. She had to fly to Fairbanks to get her braces just. Yeah, it's over 500 miles from her town to Fairbanks. Yeah, it's in a small tiny, one of those little weird planes. - 500 miles from an orthodontist appointment. - And then back, that's crazy. So it's, but that's how you, if you live in rural Alaska, you have to fly to get places all the rest to it. So she would fly to Fairbanks, take a cab to the college, stay with her friend Shirley at Bartlett, her hall, and Shirley had a single room on the second floor and Shirley would hand Sophie her keys and Shirley would go to her boyfriend's there and, you know, Sophie would walk to the orthodontist the next morning and then get her flight home. That was the routine. So that's what's going on in 93 in April of 93. She flew in on April 23rd. She flew from Pitcus Point to Alaska. Before leaving Pitcus Point, she stopped at a local store and bought her three-year-old brother a crappy kite. Yeah, he was thinking it was a crappy kite. And she said though, if you behave while I'm gone, I'll get you a better one when I'm back. When I get back. - Oh nice. - Which you can, you can really put that on a kid too and that'll hang over them all weekend. You can go, you want that kite? - Oh God, I'm sorry, like they're really, you can torture a kid with a new prospect of a new kite. - You better follow up. - Yeah, you gotta get the kid a kite if you go. - You better follow up, I'm good, you better follow up. - Is if I'm, what's the point? - Yeah, so they all laughed about it and had a good time there. She stayed Friday night with a family friend and anchorage and then on April 24th, she flew to Fairbanks. - All right. - That's how it worked. Her schedule deployment was Monday morning, April 26th at 10 a.m. - Sure. - Now Sunday, April 25th in the afternoon, Elena, her mom was on, in Anchorage here. Sophie was in Fairbanks and they were on the phone and they talked about four o'clock on that April 25th on Sunday and her mom, Elena said, we were laughing about it. That was the last time I talked to her late Sunday and we were talking about that kite. I guess the kid would keep talking about the kite. So he's like, you better be getting that kid a kite when you get back here. - He wants a material on this plastic one, socks. - Yeah, this thing doesn't work for shit. - Oh, that terrible paper grommet that you had to sweat on the plastic. - That's fucking awful. - They always tore. - 'Cause it had to be, it had to be a little breezy but not too windy or it would explode in the way. - It would explode that motherfucker in half. - Fold it and rip it apart. Yeah, so it was like a very small window of wind. - With the crossbar two blocks away. - Well, that just falls to the ground after it ripped and I go, oh man, fuck the fuck. - There it is. So now, also on this Sunday, final exams are a week away. Like we said, now she's found on Monday afternoon. So, you know, things are people are doing shit getting ready for final studying. Sophie spends the day with her friends. Her former roommate, Jolene and her friend Eric said that they all drove out to a movie and then they went up to Murphy Dome to watch the sunset. - Sick. - It's a spot outside, Fairbanks and from that spot from the top, you can see Denali. - Amazing. - Pretty goddamn beautiful, yeah. So, while they're there at Murphy Dome, Eric takes a picture of Sophie. She's wearing a blue, she's wearing blue U.S. Navy sweatpants and a multicolored sweatshirt with a hood and she's got a dark jacket that zips up there. She looks real happy, arms long open, you know, whatever. She's having fun laugh and they're taking pictures. Then they head back to the dorm. Sam, Sophie runs into another friend, Joanne Sundown, who knows her and Joanne said Sophie came to her room that day on Saturday and they sat together and looked through the college catalog picking out classes for fall because Sophie was planted on being back in school in the fall. So, she was just, you know, getting her shit together here. So, Sunday night around 11, Sophie was, we know she was outside of Hess Commons. There's a photo from her. So, we know she was there alive and well, that night. She's wearing a brightly striped sweater, smoking a cigarette, talking to a bunch of kids. One friend said she was dancing with joy. She was just having a good time. Around midnight, Sophie and Shirley went back inside, Shirley's second floor room. Shirley's boyfriend Noah came over. They ordered a pizza and they sat on the dorm room floor and ate pizza, which is such a 20 year old thing to do. You put the pizza on the floor, you sit there, legs crossed. Just cross applesauce, eat and slice the pizza, that's fantastic. Long enough to eat a slice of pizza like that anymore. We'd have to help Jimmy up off the carpet. That would be the brothel. You could do it, but then-- I can't feel the feet, I can't feel the feet. You wouldn't just pop up though. You'd like to do a thing where you go to your knees first and then you're like, oh, Jesus Christ, stretch your back out. My toes, get some circulation, I can't feel them. No shit, that's funny. So then they watched a movie after the pizza. After the movie, Shirley said good night and went to Noah's and left Sophie in her room. And as she was leaving, as Shirley's leaving, Sophie said she wanted a cigarette. She was going to go out and get a cigarette real quick. Shirley told her, oh, it's freezing outside. Don't go out there and smoke. That sucks. The second floor women's shower has exhaust fans. Oh, for the humidity there. So she said that's people smoking there all the time. Just hold the cigarette up by the exhaust fans. No one will ever know the difference. OK. Yeah, do one of those. So Shirley said she walked out of Bartlett Hall to go meet Noah. And on the way, she passed a young man on the second floor. She made eye contact with him. She didn't know him. Some random young man. Now at approximately 1.30 a.m. in the bathroom on the west side of the building, a senior named Jennifer Roy was taking a shower. She had an exam the next morning and she wanted to she was studying. She wanted to wake herself up basically, she was getting tired. So the two second floor bathroom share a common wall. So we know where we are. She's on the west side, the other bathroom. The one with the tub is on the east side. Yeah. So that's how it works. She said she heard something through the wall. She said because it was the middle of the night, it was quiet. Then all of a sudden, I heard someone enter into the bathroom on the other side and then enter, enter into the bathtub room. She said she doesn't hear and didn't hear voices. Didn't hear shouting. Didn't hear struggling. Didn't hear a gunshot. Just heard someone come in there, which was probably Sophie coming in the smoke. So that's how that goes. Now, students also back at the scene of where this happened in this bathroom, students have been walking into the bathroom all morning, brushing their teeth. They're all 15 feet away from her in a dead and a tub. Nobody notices. They take, they took showers in the open room next door. Nobody opened the tub curtain. Ever morning. Oh my God. You know how many fucking kids were in there? Dozens of kids were in there. None of them opened the tub curtain to find this poor girl. That's, that's, I mean, is that thoughtful to like, oh, somebody's in there. I think you just, if you see a close curtain, you just think someone must be in there and you know, think about it because you'd go in there, brush your teeth and leave. It's not like you'd stay in there for two hours and go, how come that person hasn't come out? In the 10 minutes, you're there. They were in the tub. I don't know. So it makes sense, I guess. So battalion chief Mitch Flynn from the fire department arrives. And he says this, when I came in, I first saw my medic and one of the other medics in there. And when I went into the bathroom, looked into, looked to the right, then there was a body sat in a position with the knees up in the bathtub. Her pants had been pulled down, was a female and her shirt was gone. Her head was leaning forward. There were wounds, but I couldn't tell at the time if they're gunshot wounds or stab wounds. Once we determined that she was deceased, I had my crew exit the room in order to preserve the crime scene. Right. Somebody opened the curtain, saw her and then called the fire department, 911. You don't know. She's a lot. You don't know anything. You just need help. You need help. You're not going to sit there and examine the wounds and go, no, that's a gunshot wound in the back of the head. So, police come, they go over the scene, they do everything here, and this is what they put together of what must have happened to her. And I think we can kind of get a general idea, too, on the 26th, which would be Monday morning, technically, from 1.30 a.m. to 4.00 a.m., sometime in this window of time here. That's when she was attacked, raped, struck with an instrument, choked, stabbed twice in the eye. Well, she's alive, shocked with a shot with a stun gun, and then finally with a 22 caliber bullet. They said, her sweatpants are pulled down to her knees, no shirt. Her body wets the tile around the tub. They said the killer, at this point, turned off the bathtub water, drew the curtain, left the light on, and walked out. So, they filled it up. Now, another witness, named Vanessa Allen, who was a freshman, was in the bathroom on the east side, the one we talked about here. And she said she remembered feeling uneasy. She said it was a bathtub area, and it had a door. And I remembered the door was closed, and the light was on, and that light is never on. Not a lot of people are taking luxurious baths at college. You know what I mean? It would just be weird. You're going in, and you're fucking taking a shower, quick, and going back to your room. In a shared bathroom. In the shared bathrooms, and put in rows of bottles in there. Oh, no, I'm very good at night. Yeah. Yeah. Hold on. Where's my vibrator? Anybody? Right. Most girls get in there to clean everything off of them from their puke night. You're not going to soak in that. No, fuck no. She also remembers while she was showering, hearing a rustling sound through the wall, but she didn't know what the hell people were doing. People could have been fucking in there, son. It's college. You might your business, I would think. Now, another witness, a woman who was in the second floor East bathroom in the early hours that day also said she saw a man leaving the bathtub area of the bathroom. Oh, that's what we're looking for here because it's an all girls floor. So she described him as a white man with a darker complexion about five foot eight with black hair wearing a gray t-shirt. Okay. Okay. We'll find out this fits a student around here pretty to the tea, a guy named Kenneth Motto, M O T O. So remember that name fits him, the description fits him perfectly. So the morning again comes at 9 a.m. This is before Sophie is found, surely walked back to her dorm room from Noah's, the doors unlocked, the lights are on, the TV is on, the bed still made. Sophie's stuff is still in the room, but she's not. Okay. And they know she's got like a orthodontist appointment at 10. So they assume she's in the shower and she's going to come back and you know she probably woke up, put all the lights on and stuff and then went and took a shower and she's going to come back. So surely said she was a little annoyed that Sophie left the door unlocked. Yeah. A little like, dude, don't leave my door unlocked. So she walked to the second floor bathroom and heard voices from inside one of the showers. She heard a voice coming. So she called out asking is Sophie in here and someone yelled out, yeah, I'm here. Oh, so she assumed, okay, that's Sophie. Now Sophie's already dead, but I don't know if it's someone else named Sophie or just with this shower water, you just hear about in here and you go, yeah, I'm in here, like is anyone in here? Yeah, I'm in here. But that's what it was. Yeah, I'm in here. Yeah, water in your ears and all that. You just hear, yeah, I mean, I'm here. Yeah, I'm in here. Nobody would hear their name and say, yeah, I'm in here, right? You would say what? Yeah, what? Yeah. Just an interesting reply. So surely leaves the dorm and goes about her day considering Sophie's in the shower. She was going to go to her orthodontist appointment. Now Sophie misses her orthodontist appointment. Obviously at 2 p.m., the janitor finds her and screams does all that. Now that evening Dan Foley, who is the UAF director of residence life, gets a call from the director of Bartlett Hall telling him there's a major emergency in the dorm. So they convene a big meeting of all the residents and tell them what happened of all, you know, all the kids and kids freak the fuck out. I mean, as you can imagine. So they, the state crime lab in Anchorage flies a team of criminologists to fare banks that evening because they don't have all this shit. It's a small town. I mean, 30,000 people decent size, but you don't have all the, you know, all the major city forensics type of things going on here. And a small young girl murdered in a shower. We send the fuck out. Yeah, and been raped. And this is horrible. So I guess his first, the main investigator here lead criminologist is James Russell Wolf, which is a cool name for a criminal. This is just dick wolf is the executive officer of that's so right. Well, you're in Alaska. Your name's wolf. That's pretty cool. You know, there's a lot of wolves up there, possibly. So he said my first impression was that it just seemed very clean for a crime scene where blood was shed. Yeah, the area. He said the bathtub itself was dry. The tile around it was dry. Sophie's body was wet to the touch. And a trooper assigned to the case the same day said that her body felt damp, even though the tub was bone dry. So they're saying either she had been wet and the tub had been drained or she had been been put back into the tub after being washed somewhere else. I don't know why you'd wash or somewhere else if you're in a bathtub. That wouldn't make sense. So they collect physical evidence. There was a decent amount of physical evidence. And this is 93. So this is pre, you know, DNA being known by everyone and everyone's an expert. So they collect hairs from her body and the bathtub area, including pubic hairs. Oh, now this is a college bathroom as well. So you're going to find the hairs and pubic hairs. The amount of pubes in there is kind of outrageous. That's I think that's what kept me from college. I mean, besides the grades and the money that you had to take is I'm not showering somewhere where other people's pubes are. I think that's really what kept me. I knew ahead of time not to do my homework because I wasn't going to deal with that later. The public bathrooms, the amount of dick hairs on a urinal. It's disgusting. It's blown your fucking mind. It's crazy. It's all dick hairs. I don't know much dick hair. We're shedding constant. No one trimming their dick hairs too is everybody just like massive. These things are three feet long these fucking things. I see them curl curled up. You're like, Oh my God. What the fuck? Have you ever taken a trimmer to that thing? Never. Now the DNA testing on the pubic hair identifies it as having come from a Caucasian person and not coming from Sophie. Okay. So we know that there's also swabs of stains from the bathroom floor and bathtub. Fingerprints from many surfaces in the bathtub. A red disposable like big cigarette lighter found in the drain of a bathtub. So that might have been in her pocket and went down on the water went away and bodily fluids from inside Sophie's body. They've get things. 1993, they knew where to look for that stuff. They just couldn't really do that much with it. So they got it. They have some stuff here and they have some some items as we'll talk about some sperm and some things of that nature. So police obviously need to investigate. They go talk to the neighbors. They got to talk to everybody in the building at this point. So he was a suspect because they figure it's probably somebody who lives here that would be comfortable enough to go into bathrooms and walk around dorms. So three floors above the bathroom and a third floor dorm is an 18-year-old freshman from Auburn, Maine named Stephen Harris Downs. That's a fucking long trip. Yeah. He's from Maine. He went to Edward Little High School in Auburn and he's just some kid from Maine and he went to decided he wanted to go to Alaska. It's just very weird. He moved into Bartlett Hall. He had a roommate named Nicholas Dazer with a D-A-Z-E-R. Now Dazers, I'm also a campus security guard. He was one of the people who was told to help keep shit together and keep people away from the bathroom and all that kind of thing after the body was found here. He guarded a stairwell while people were doing that shit upstairs. Now they met while they were both moving boxes in and met each other and got along and they played both play music and they studied together and party and hang out and all that kind of shit. Dazer would say, "I've always considered him a good friend," meaning Stephen, probably in Fairbanks at that time, my best friend. Now Stephen Downs has a girlfriend. Her name's Catherine. She's an upper-classman older than him even. How about that? He's doing very well. He spends some nights in her room, some nights in his room. They're going to date for about three years of college. 18, 19 year old boy getting a 22 year old girl. That's impressive. Fucking awesome. So they asked, "Where were you guys on Sunday night?" Stephen said, "Well, I was with my girlfriend Catherine on the fourth floor." People saw me there besides they said, "Who can say that? Who can verify?" Then he said, "Well, she can." Then there was other people coming in and out of the room all night and they'll tell you. He said, "We were watching movies on the VCR, watching tapes. They were drinking a little bit." That kind of thing. Now he said, "I came and went because my room's only a floor down." So I came and went. So to my roommate, hang out for a while, whatever. So Catherine would say that she couldn't say for certain exactly when Stephen was in her room and when he wasn't in her room. But he was there. But sometimes he'd leave that for a bit and then he come back. It's a dorm, so they're all kind of moving around. She's trying to watch men at work. - Yeah, come on guys, Jesus, what are we doing? So Steve brought guns with him to college. Now, this is not unusual in Alaska at all. Everybody has guns. - Or Maine, yeah. - Or Maine, that's what I mean, both of those places. But Alaska, especially, it's so rural. So a lot of kids bring them, 'cause they hunt. Tons of these kids hunt up here. Some of the kids come to college up here, 'cause they want to hunt around the area. So that's where they go. So now, Steven has two pistols in his room. Later on, a derringer, they'll figure out too, but they won't figure that out till later. So on his nightstand, he's got a switchblade as well. A knife. Again, not uncommon for an 18 year old kid. One of the guns is an H&R 22 caliber revolver. So there's that. Now, H&R revolver. Now, they said that, they talked to the roommate, and he said, "Yeah, my roommate has guns." The days are kids. And yeah, my roommate has guns. He's got the 22 caliber pistol. He's got a derringer. He's got a switchblade. All this shit. They said, "Have you ever seen him do anything inappropriate with these guns?" And he said, "I never saw Steve act inappropriately with guns." These are some people who play with guns inappropriately and don't handle them safely. I never saw Steve do that. Nor did I ever see him carry a gun except when we were going to hunt. Oh, he's just in the room. Just keeps him there. Also, Stephen Downs is not five foot eight and dark complex that he's six foot tall and really pale. You'd notice that guy. So it doesn't fit that description at all. And that guy would stand the fuck out. He would, exactly. So Stephen Downs says, "I don't know anything, basically." He said, "I just spent the night with my girlfriend." And he said, "But one thing I've heard can help out at all." He said, "There are GI's from Fort Wayne Wright." So army guys who hassle the girls in the dorm sometimes. They go out looking for college chicks and they'll break walls and they are a little bit. And so that's what he said. He said, "I don't know. I'd look at Fort Wayne Wright." He said, "Sometimes the soldiers will come and come to the dorms and go around, try to go to parties and look for girls." Yeah, so the lead investigator said there's a footnote in my notes that said something about GI's hassling girls. I noted in my notes that there was some comment that maybe there were GI's here that weekend. Oh. Okay, now there's another guy that we're going to call Williamson for now. Williamson, new Sophie, had hung out with her the night before her death that Sunday night. And everybody said he was kind of infatuated with Sophie, really liked her. Williamson to talk about. Yeah, investigators at this time describe a quote, small shrine to her in his dorm room. What the fuck? She doesn't even go there anymore. That's weird. He also has zero alibi for the night of this murder. Uh-huh. And when investigators question him, his very first words are, first of all, I didn't do it. Which is not great. At one point they consider him the prime suspect. They interview him like five, six times. He told them he had dropped a gift off for Sophie that night in Shirley's dorm room. And Shirley said, I don't remember that happening at all. So he's put himself there. Put himself there has no alibi. Has a small shrine and lied about where he was around. The shrine is real important. That's real weird. So over the next couple of days, the kids freaked out. By the next morning, basically half the female students moved out. Yeah, not safe at all, that the way they're thinking about it. Shirley, her roommate, by the way, at the memorial said, it's important to know how much Sophie enjoyed life. Don't be bitter. We should continue to pray for the person who took Sophie away from us, which is pretty goddamn nice. Yeah. If you want to be all Christiany, that's the way you do it, by the way, that's how it's supposed to be done. So the next fall, they beat up security. You had to have a card to get in, like a card to buzz you in. They added cameras. They changed all the security the next year. So the investigation goes on here. And they interview some over 500 people in this investigation. They tried to talk to every resident of Bartlett Hall, every guest. They focus on the second floor. They focus also on the male residents of the building. The lieutenant here said later on, it's been one of the larger mysteries. This is a true who done it. Hate that. That's rough. Now the leads, who do they have? Well, they have Kenneth Motto, member of him, the guy who fits the description. A female student saw guy who fits her, his description perfectly, leaving the second floor east bathroom in the early morning hours of April 26th. I think the bathroom, the bathroom. That's not good. She described him as five foot eight, white, but dark, collected with black hair wearing a gray shirt, which is exactly the description of the other, but the other person got. So they interview him. The day he was interviewed, he was still wearing a gray shirt and he matched all the description, but he said he didn't do it. So they really didn't have any evidence. Now, they never find a murder weapon. They never find a knife that matches up. They never find the 22 that matches up to this. Or the stun gun. Or the stun gun. They, the forensics here, they made dozens of slides from the autopsy and they found sperm on three of the slides from the swabs. The case goes cold, despite having all these leads, a guy, the same description, leaving all this cold case, okay. Nothing happens. They put up a reward for $20,000. Nobody claims it. Nothing happens. So Sophie's mother Elena files a $4 million wrongful death lawsuit against the University of Alaska in 1995. It alleges that the University's lack of dorm security allowed her daughter to be killed. The state would settle that lawsuit. But they say that the civil suit forced the Alaska State troopers to release all the information about the ongoing case, which basically said, now whoever did it can find out exactly with the police now. At that point, so that's not a good deal. Now 1996, the lead investigator flies to another place, Katsabu, Katsabu, and interviewed Kenneth Motto again. Motto agrees to provide a DNA sample. This is '96. He gave them the swab and he said, quote, "I volunteered because I want to help in any way I can, because if she's native, we can't have that happening to native people." That's what Kenneth said, because he's in the same guy, same deal. 1999 comes around. God dang. The person who did the forensics on it, did the slides and the samples and all that, at a colleague's suggestion, said, "Why don't you go back and look through it again?" Fresh eyes. You don't know? Yeah. So she looked and she found sperm on more slides. God dang. And she looked closer. Yeah. She said, "Sometimes when you look harder, you find things you missed the first time." Yeah. They also test Motto's DNA and he has found the semen does not match her. Does match Kenneth Motto at all? The guy who fits the description. Plus, you'd think that if you just leave in the bathroom after that shit, you're going to have some blood on you to be obvious. Something you would imagine. They test 15 other men's DNA. Oh. 15 of them. None of the matches. Huh. Nothing. In 2000, year 2000, the Alaska Crime Lab now has a full DNA profile from the semen recovered from the model. They run it through codeus though. It doesn't match anybody. Nothing. Nobody they have on file yet. The guy that did this shit isn't even in codeus. Isn't that crazy? It's no other crimes. Nothing. Horrible. So 2003, here's a quote from the Alaska Assistant Attorney General and says, "As the years went by, additional suspects were explored and DNA samples were collected, but all the potential suspects were eliminated as the source of the unidentified DNA." By the end of 2003, the investigation had gone dormant. Damn it. 2007, Alaska State Troopers reopened the cold case and an outside. So almost 15 years later. Yeah. So, yeah. Now, the Alaska from this, outside forensic examiners that they hired to bring in, they include that the second floor bathtub was probably not the murder scene. Probably. Right. Probably brought her there, put her in, turn the water on to wash us what he thought was wash his, whatever he had away, didn't know about sperm and DNA. It gets up inside and all that kind of thing. So, but they theorized she was killed somewhere else and moved to the tub. They go through all the files. They re-interview every witness that's still alive. They track people down in, you know, 3,000, 5,000 miles away and interviewee. Sure. 2009, unbelievable. Still out there. In an interview about the case, the lead investigator Jim McCann, who's been on it since the beginning, said he believed the killer had hated women and that Sophie had just been a target of opportunity. Okay. And they get a forensic psychologist also who says that whoever did this had done it before and probably did it again afterwards, have to, have to. This is not something you do once and walk away. Right. 2010, two cold case investigators go to Oregon to interview Nicholas Dazer again. Remember him? Right. Stephen Downs was his roommate, the guy with the gun. Guns Dazer was a security guard at the time. At this time, when they interview him in 2010, he's an attorney. No. They ask him about Stephen Downs again. They ask him about his guns and he said, yes, he had a 22 in the dorm, in the dorm, a darenger and a switchblade on the nightstand. They asked him if Dazer had ever opened, owned a gun himself and he said, no, not at the dorm. They asked him about a separate incident in his security guard career. He'd been fired from the job at UAF for keeping a firearm in his dorm room. He said, well, the gun in question wasn't a 22. He said the gun, the 22 in their dorm room was Steve's gun, not mine, but he had another gun and he just lied about it, which is not great. I guess they asked him if he had a 22. So they said, based on that, they can't identify either Dazer or Downs as a concrete suspect or subject or anything else, 2015, and this is a puriating, fucking believable. Not only has it been over 20 years, the Alaska state legislature facing budget cuts. Now, when there's budget cuts, you have to prioritize, they decide to shut down the Alaska state troopers cold case unit. You got a start at the crime lab, James. That's where you start. Let people get away with murder. Yeah. That's really what you should do. Sell the microscope. We got budget cuts. Yeah. The unit had been working on more than 100 unsolved cases at the time. One of which is Sophie's, which is crazy. Sophie's at this point, her file is 14 volumes of notebooks and three or four boxes of reference material. That's so much. It's so much. So, and they said, now, whoever comes in, if someone ever re-investigates this, they're going to have to start from the bottom of that box and work their way out of it to figure this out. Yeah. So, this is, this is fucking terrible. He told the, one of the cops told the press at the time that the, that Sophie's case was in one of the biggest mysteries the unit had ever encountered. Yeah. 2008 or 18. I'm sorry. 18. I'm. Unbelievable. An investigative genealogist named C.C. Moore in California and a Virginia-based DNA company named Parabahn Nanolabs, that they're the ones who cracked the, the golden state killer case. That's when that happened. This is when DNA and finding DNA through, of like, you know, DNA databases and ancestry and all that became a thing. This wasn't just running through codec and see if it matches. All these people that did that shit had no idea that they were going to, they identified him based on the taking that profile to a public consumer genealogy database named GED match, which any science thing, I don't want the words GED in there. I have a GED. I don't know anything about science, don't, don't do that. Yeah. Don't do it at that level. Yeah. This is a site where you basically upload your own DNA and hope of finding lost relatives. That's what the point is. And what they end up finding is distant cousins of whoever this murderer was. Distant cousins of this murderer tried to find their family. Absolutely. So in 2018, there's a new investigator named Randy McFarran of the state troopers. He's been working cold cases a long time. He had a sealed sample of semen from Sophie's body. Say that a long time is fast. Never mind. She sells seashells. How about he has sealed samples of semen of, from so, from Sophie's body. That's much harder. Yeah. Sealed samples of semen from Sophie's body. Kids try that. And it'll help you out. Sealed and delivered. That's very nice. And he had a full DNA profile with no match. Now he sent this sample to the Parabahn Nano Labs in Virginia and asked him to run it against GED match. And he waited. That's how they found the golden state killer was through the cousins. And April, our December 18, 2018, the forensic genealogist filed a report. The DNA from that, from Sophie's body shared 23% of its profile with a woman who had voluntarily uploaded her own DNA to GED match as a hobby, just to find that is real close. That's 23%. That's a good junk. Yeah. Oh boy. She shares a fourth of her DNA with a murderer. So yeah, they said the match was strong enough and is roughly the genetic distance of an ant or a gram parent. So in a main right now, this isn't a four cousin or anything. She's had a piece of a turkey with this person. Yeah. So they said the genealogist then could could build out a family tree from this. The woman lived in Maine. The family's tree shows she's the aunt of Stephen Harris Downs. Uh oh. Remember him? Yeah. He'd been a freshman. We know who he is. They interviewed him. So they were like, who? They went back through the files and they're like, oh yeah, we interviewed him. He was spent the night with his girlfriend in the night. He was only interviewed once that night in his dorm room and he's the guy who said maybe the GI's from Fort Wayne right. So they're like, fuck, what do we do now? They said through the process of elimination, the lab determined that the known relative to the DNA profile only had one possible second-degree relationship, her nephew Stephen H. Downs. Downs has no previous arrests at all. What? His DNA has never been uploaded to the national database. They said, so the sample had never been compared to his. So what has he been doing? Where's he been? He's the murder. Well, he finished his freshman year that like went home a week after the murder, went to Maine, came back in the fall, moved in with his girlfriend in a cabin off campus, stayed close with Nicholas Dazer, would target shoot and hunt and then he graduated. In 1998, he was, he was groomsman at Nicholas Dazer's wedding in Portland, Oregon, his roommate. So there's that. He went on to graduate, he went on for a graduate degree in nursing, returned to Maine in 2003 to live there permanently, started working as a registered nurse first licensed in July 2011, according to the nursing board records. He took it a job. He took a job. He took it a job. Took it a job. He took it a job. He took a job at a place called Harris House and Livermore Falls, Maine, which is a 12-bed intermediate care facility or adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities, which is normally people that work. There you go. Jesus. You got to be an angel to work there. You know, has anybody there died questionable? He took care of vulnerable people. That was his job. Wow. He's fired in 2011 for a totality or 2016 for a totality of his substandard performance, including multiple medication errors. He documented doses he hadn't actually given, which means he was probably selling it. He poured medications into unlabeled cups. He gave a pill to a patient too early, two female co-workers, two months apart, filed formal complaint saying that Stephen Downs had made comments to them on the job that made them uncomfortable. After the first complaint, he apologized. After the second, he denied it. A certified nursing assistant who worked under him at Harris House named Kelly Ellingwood also said that she, that Downs would sometimes hit on the younger CNAs. She said she remembered a quote, "I always felt uncomfortable having to go with him, go to him for things and being around him." In 2017, he signed a consent agreement with the main board of nursing. He took a course called Professional Boundaries in Nursing and kept his license. He took a new job at the Marshwood Center and worked there from 2017 to 18 where the complaints continued to mount. This is a man in his 40s who needs a professional boundaries class. Yeah, a class. Oh, I shouldn't. So I shouldn't do that to 20-year-olds who just started working under me. They also said that somebody in 2009 filed an incident report against him also for a report described an incident in which Downs had hurt a female resident while treating her wound and made condescending comments to her. The resident said that afterward she was afraid to report him because she didn't think anyone would believe her. She said, "I believe it's also important to mention I've never seen her hurt him treat males this way. Only females he has power over." Another resident there said that basically they asked for another nurse to be in the room when Stephen was around. Oh. They said that she was scared of him and that this resident said that basically Downs said no one will believe you over me. Uh-huh. I don't think. Okay. And another resident said, "I didn't like even being in the same room as him because I felt weird being around him." By the way, in 2015 he bought an H&R 22 caliber revolver from a private seller in me. Same gun as the one he had before. Okay. February 2019, the investigators fly to Maine. They meet with the Maine State Police Unsolved Homicide Unit and they bleed detective there's a guy named Jay Peliteer, which I believe we've talked about him before on a Maine case. Peliteer, I know that name. Sounds familiar. Yeah. I know that name. Um, they coordinated with the Auburn City Police. They get a warrant to surveil Stephen Downs' house. Okay. And they go through his garbage to trying to pick out anything that has DNA on it. Yeah. They get-- They get not enough that the murderer shares a quarter of that lady's DNA. They need a full sand. No, it's not enough because it could be, you know what I mean? So it's not in court. You can't go in and go, we're 23% sure it's him. That doesn't work for a murder case, you know what I mean? But I mean, can you go to court and be like, we're 23% sure? No. Can we go search? Well, that's what they did. They got a warrant. They said we have 23% sure. To surveil though, not to search yet. No, to surveil him to get some shit out of his garbage can. That's what they're trying. They're searching through his garbage can, trying to get anything. So that's why how they got that warrant. So the garbage gets, has no usable sample. Wow, they can't find anything. They sit there for like weeks trying to get something. They get nothing. So February 13, 2019, they just go knock on his door. Hi, yeah. So they said, quote, he just kind of let us into the dining room. They sat down in the dining room. He sat with them. He talked, they recorded the interview. They said they asked him what he remembered about the night that Sophie was killed. And he told them the same thing that he said in 1993. He said he didn't know or never spoke to her. He was with his girlfriend. That's that. He said, quote, if we would have known anything from the jump, you know, we would have, we would have spoken up. Me and Nick meeting him in his roommate. So then the other investigator says, we took the DNA sample that was found inside her body in her vagina. They were able to develop a full profile from the sample. It came down to you. You're the source of the DNA. It's you, Steve. And that's why we're here. And he said, quote, there's no way that could be possible. Okay. So they asked him, okay, drive yourself down in the police department. You're going to give us a DNA sample and a fingerprint. And he said, sure, you drove down there, gave him samples, maintained his innocence. He said it has to be a mistake. It has to be a lab error. There has to be something because it's not Nick. I don't know that girl. So they run it through within 24 hours. They say it's his DNA. Yeah. And he's arrested without incident outside the fire side in on Washington street in Auburn, Maine. He fights extradition, but that's not going to go very well for him. Now they say, was that psychologist right? Does he have a trail of bodies behind him? No, they say as investigating him as far as anybody's ever been able to prove or even suspect, he never raped or murdered another person. He's just a kind of a random dickhead. Want to, you know, odd it is for someone to do this once. And that well to a random person. Yeah. So, I mean, had he known that DNA existed as well as it did, he would have done something to not have that left behind. You would think, well, I think he tried to wash it away. I mean, my point is he would have worn a condom or something. Something, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, that would be even sicker if he had a plan that much to wear. Right. You know, that's even crazier. So he's charged with first degree murder and first degree sexual assault. And that's how it goes. He says, his lawyer says in his initial appearance, there must be some kind of mistake. What? Yeah. Now the defense attorney here, they want to present alternate suspects. Okay. So there's a few that they're going to have here. They said, this is not a case of the defense coming forward with a witness years later saying they had evidence that Stephen Downs didn't commit the crime. Just about every piece of information that I intend to convey to you comes from the 8,000 plus pages and over 100 audio files that have been presented by the state. They're saying, this is the state's people. So they want to do Kenneth Motto. He fits the description, Gregory Thornton, and also Williamson. And also Nicholas Dazer, the roommate as well, he had access to a gun, why not? With the shrine. Yeah. Well, the security guards, the guy you look at also first, because I never trust those guys. So the Williamson guy, by the way, had an alibi. Really? And also they said later on that the shrine that he had in the strange behavior were more of a rumor than fact. He was just kind of a weird guy. They said Williamson had been cleared, and so the defense, you know, whatever. So Gregory Thornton, he owned a 22 caliber pistol. Now, Thornton was suicidal at the time and was living inappropriately with another student in the dorm. I don't know what he was fucking, some sort of loud. They later got a warrant for his DNA. It doesn't match. He was scientifically excluded. Kenneth Motto, same deal. Now, the problem with Kenneth Motto is his sister said that Kenneth told her that he killed Sophie. Why would he say that? He said he told her he'd killed her, because in his words, she wouldn't shut her mouth. Oh. But the Siemens, not his. That's a problem. Now, his sister, by the way, dies before trial. So she's not able to testify to what she saw. It's a five week trial, 45 witnesses. A lot of shit. They go through the DNA, which is the main thing. They do a cross on the DNA lady, pushing the idea that maybe it was mishandled or contaminated or changed in the lab. You know, she said, it's DNA, it's what it is. I don't know. Other witnesses here, they said, they talk about the two young ladies who were in the bathroom. Her roommate talks about passing the guy in the hallway. She identified that man as Stephen Downs that she passed in the hallway, even though she gave a description of a completely different. Motto. Yeah. Also, multiple other witnesses here. Nicholas Dazer is brought in. And they say that they weren't allowed to bring up his firing in front of the jury, 'cause there's no direct link to the crime, even though there's a gun involved in the firing. Now, so the cross on days, or they said, do you remember Mr. Downs' behavior at the time of the murder as being unusual? And he says, absolutely not. He said he was fine, nothing at all. He said that he could never in a million years fathom that Steve could have done something like this. That's what he said. Sure. They bring his old girlfriend in, and she says, in my fuzzy 30-year-old memories, he had this little 22 pistol that he wanted to go out in the woods and target shoot, so I went with him. It looked old. It was a handgun, I believe a revolver. It was kind of old and beat up. She said, but nothing that she could remember would link him to the murder at all. She said he was honestly, even though he broke up, he was a nice kid. He was nice to me. He was nice to my friends. No red flags, he was a good guy. So I don't get it. So there's that. The troopers, they bring in all the cops that investigated, and they said, did you ever, they said, was it a trick to see how Moto reacted to say that someone saw him coming out of the bathroom? And the investigator said, I would say, well, it's something I would also use as a way to see what effect would be how he's going to react to that. But he said it was also true. They bring in Moto, and they say, do you remember telling your sister at any point you killed Sophie? And he said, I remember we were watching TV, something on cold cases in Alaska, was some kind of show on TV. I told her I was a suspect in Sophie's. I was a suspect in that one at UAF. Big difference between I killed her and I was a suspect. Yeah. The state's closing says he likes 22 caliber revolvers. His fucking DNA matches. It's one and one and 330 billion matched to the DNA. I mean, he definitely is inside her. Yeah, they're like, unless somebody else, he raped her than someone else killed her, but he at least raped her. We're thinking here. So in the closing arguments, they said, the defense says DNA does not equal murder. Even if he had sexual contact with her at some point that night, which he denies, it doesn't prove he killed her. They said the male pubic hairs from a Caucasian person, other than Stephen Downe were collected at the scene, they were never tested for DNA. But there's just a lot of antibodies. It's exactly right. There's a saliva sample at the scene. The murder weapons never been found. He said he's a normal kid this Steve. He wasn't this kind of guy. He's a nurse. He takes care of people. So the verdict comes in here. This is 20 hours of deliberation over four days. Quite a bit. That is a lot. They find him. What do you think's gonna happen here? Ah, that's guilty. That's to get a, man. Guilty of first degree murder. Yeah. First degree sexual assault as well. He denies that he ever was in contact with her. That's it. If he said, yeah, I had a little affair with that girl. I don't want my girlfriend to know about it. That would have been different. Sophie's brother Alex said, with the DNA, I'm pretty sure it's the right guy. Nowadays, DNA won't lie to you. So in sentencing, the prosecution asks for 99 years with 20 suspended. So a hard 79 years they said, then they asked for an eight year mandatory sentence on the sexual assault to run consecutively for a total of 87 years in Alaska. The defense asked for 50 years suspended to 30 with the sexual assault count running concurrently. He said that the lower number would allow Mr. Downs to hug his parents again in his lifetime. Stephen declines to make a statement at sentencing. The judge says Mr. Downs' life goal, according to his legal counsel, is to hope to one day hug his parents again. Since April of '93, Miss Surgey hasn't been able to hug anyone. No one's been able to hug her. No one will ever hug her again. That's a tremendous impact. There's really no higher impact than raping and murdering someone. Yeah. That's plain English, I would say. You, sir, may fuck off, sentences him to 67 years in prison for the murder. and eight years for the sexual assault to run consecutively for 75 years in total. He would be eligible for discretionary parole after 25 years around the age of 73. So yeah, he appeals for a warrantless search of Stephen Downs' family DNA on a match and all that kind of shit. It's all tick-e-tack shit. Forget me on DNA. Yeah. So that is actually going through the courts yet. It's been two years, but they have not rendered a decision yet. Okay. So we're waiting on that. I think it's going to be affirmed. Let's just say you're in trouble, man. And that is Fairbanks Alaska and a crazy goddamn story, I would say. That is unbelievable. What that shit has done to change the course of investigations. Oh, it's out without it without DNA. You're in so much trouble. There was nothing that you can't solve anything. Yeah. DNA is unless somebody saw them there. Or their fingerprints are on something. You're fucked. So now with touch DNA, can you invest to get and just hand them something and take it back? And some things, yeah, they can get that off of to get a really good sample. They still want like, get them after like a pickleball match or something. Rex, you were them in pizza crust bites. You're so shit. So anyway, if you enjoy the show and enjoy it all the time, get on whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars, give a thumbs up on Netflix, do whatever you got to do. It helps the show. So thank you for doing that. 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