The Hear’Say And Liberty X Feud That Changed British Pop

Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I look back at pop stars with Michelle Heaton and Mylene Klass, the early Naughty's reality TV show that created hearsay, led to Liberty X, and changed British pop culture overnight. So how do you get on to pop stars? Yeah, so the student newspaper was a bi-weekly paper, newspaper that listed all the auditions and what was happening in the industry. I remember it said, "Do you want to be the next five or five girls?" I think it said. We're looking for mixed group. He's the open auditions and I was like, right, I wouldn't need to save money for London, but actually they came to Newcastle. So I went along to the audition. I had a song prepared. I was going to sing "Everything I Do I Do for You" by Brian Adams. That was like my go-to. So in that moment, it didn't felt too weird. There was a lot of production around more than what I was used to, but it wasn't anything different. So the thought of it being a big massive TV show had been on our eyes, because it was the first one. We hadn't seen anything like this before. That's true, because there's no ex-factor at this time. Pop stars was the first television. What do you call it? Show that place. Manufactured band, yeah. And so for me, it was another audition. And then you got through to the next round, and then you got a given lyrics to sing. This shows everybody just sing "Reach for the Stars" from "Esquiv 7". What was different about this? We were all singing in front of each other. I was used to closed auditions, whereas this was open. Everybody was there, sat behind you, and people cheering you along. And there was so much talent in that room. I thought I had absolutely no chance. And I wasn't a professional anything. I was a professional blogger. I still am. Like I always say "fake it to you make it." But I think a lot of people are like that. They just don't want to admit it. And then there was a weekend in Birmingham where there was the final 50, and then London, and then that was a week, and then there was the final 10. Then the final 10. So now was the show on air while you were going through? No. So it's pre-recorded. Yes. So it's all pre-recorded. And I had left my dancing gig at the nightclub to do this. And so about a week after they had the final 10, they come to our houses and tell us whether we're in or not. So obviously I didn't get in. And it was six months before they had the first episode. So we all signed a contract. Obviously saying that we wouldn't talk about it. So I couldn't say anything to anybody. And back then, now I signed it and dear, I might tell a few of you. Well obviously I was like I was scared. Like I was scared about saying the wrong thing. So I didn't say anything to anybody. And I had to beg for my job back. They didn't want to give me my job back. And I was begging. Because I was like that was it. Like there was no money, you know, that those six or five six months of audition and just ended. And then I'm back to square one. Yes. And I had no job, you know, no career. I was almost 21. And those were like back in those days, the cut off age at which they wanted people to audition. Okay. So I knew it was kind of like the end. On the show then, on pop stars, you get to the final 10. And I find this very interesting because I've talked to my lean class. She was in the final 10, right? And I understand what happens with her group. But tell me about what happens to you and the forming of Liberty X. Because I find this to be really interesting. I'm sure Kelle is going to tell me I've got it wrong. So I think I have got it slightly wrong. I live in a bit of a bubble as well fall. So I kind of imagine things. Think differently. Okay. So how do you remember it? So I remember it as we all sit and touch the other five because the five and hearsay blocked us. Oh, really? But they were probably told that. But at the time, we were sore. But even before that though. So because I wasn't here during that time. So I've only seen clips. So then the five that are then selected and when that group becomes hearsay. Yes. I would imagine they had a contract immediately. And they become quite popular. Yeah. Yeah. I mean huge. You know, there was about six months between me being told I wasn't in and when the first one was aired. And in that six months, I believe obviously my lean would have had a better account of it. That's when they they went somewhere. They got this together. Yes. They linked answer teens. They recorded music. They did the whole PR thing. And you know, changed their number. Which I knew I knew it was in it as well because I tried to ring them straight after. Nassie Nigel said it wasn't in. And obviously they weren't picking up because their phones were gone. So this is where you think that they were told the block. Oh, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. But why? I know there was a different time period. But why? I think it was just at all to do with the excessivity and privacy and, you know, NBA's flying around and the fact that they I don't know. I don't want to put words in their mouths. They can answer that. I don't know if they were told to, you know, block everybody. But we were. And so I believe or like to believe that wasn't from then. Right. It was from, you know, the voices above because we all got on read well. And I wanted to ring Suzanne and, you know, and see how she got on and say, oh my God, well done. And we didn't get that opportunity to do that, you know. And so I would imagine that wasn't on them. Okay. Fair. Fair. So then you are thinking about what your life is now going to be. What's it going to look like? So how does Liberty X come about? You know, we all stayed in touch. And then the time came around where I CV wanted us to come and do a bit of press for the show as the five losers. We weren't called the five losers by a TV, but we subsequently were called that hence forward. And I remember us. My memory of it is that we got together the night before we were due to good morning Britain or one of those shows, Lorraine. And we were at Kelly's apartment and Tony had arranged an Irish fornant of you for radio. And I remember we all started, there's a thing. So we all sang bridge under troubled water, which was the song in which we sang at the auditions. They were like, you guys should be a band. And this is my fluffy memory of it. And so we were like, yeah, why not? And so the next year when we were live on TV and we sang that again, we said, we want to be a band. We're going to be a band. We didn't know what that looked like. We was like, why not? We weren't signed to ICV or pop stars. They never retained us. They let us go. That is basically the main reason why all of these participants in these shows, hence forward, are contacted to it into their life, going forward because they missed, they missed it with us. Interesting. They let us go. So you're saying specifically because they missed your group. They missed an opportunity to micromanage and take commission from anybody else from that process or from that specific process. So Liberty X set a precedent and therefore everyone gets signed. Yeah, because we were told throughout the whole process until that moment that the loses couldn't do anything. It was just the winners. It was just those five people. It was not us. We were done and that was it. And so when we announced that we wanted to start as a band, it was new to them. And my fluffy kind of rainbow covered memory is that when we announced it, Richard Franson was watching the TV show we were on. I believe it was Lorraine, but I Kelly said it was another one. And he rang Lorraine or got in touch with her somehow and said that he wanted, he loved the idea of an underdog and he owned Virgin Records, V2 Records, and would have designed us and that was that day. Oh, well. And so I never left London. We, you know, over the course of the next few weeks, Lorraine also, the lovely Lorraine, who's been with my personal journey throughout my whole whole time. She put us in contact with a manager, which Gary, who subsequently became Liberty X's manager that day as well. Okay. And we got management in the next few weeks, who then helped financially relocate us to London until we started getting money from our advances. Yes. And we signed a, you know, a major record label. That's incredible. And it was Richard Franson. Like over the course of just maybe a few weeks. Yeah, that's incredible. All of this happens. And I'm, and I'm like, this is mental. Like we all thought this is absolutely insane. saying that we are literally in Richard Brunson's house. We are at his record label and we're doing a press conference. And he helped me upside down. And Jessica, he pulled champagne over her head, all in this unrealistic, like distorted reality, we are living right then. And it was mega. - Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. I don't know about the pouring the champagne over the head. But-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It all sound, I mean, what-- - You can't make it up. - Yeah, you can't make it up. And also, those stories don't happen. It feels like, it doesn't happen anymore. - It just doesn't happen. - Just you're on TV, he sees you. - On TV. - He's like, hey, I'm a son of a deal. - Okay. - Yeah, okay. I want to ask you about this, is that I know that who was it that called you all the flop stars? Because that seemed like that was a title that stuck. - Yeah. From my memory, I believe it was hearsay. But I think it was fueled by press. - Okay. - So ultimately, press were the ones who labeled us the names. - I see. - And almost pinned you two against each other. - Absolutely. So there was a war from the get-go. As soon as we really thought we were gonna be abandoned and start to release music, we were constantly battled against each other in a world that we were trying to navigate. We didn't have, there were six months prior, like hearsay had to adapt to what was coming and a team around them. We were signed to an indie label effectively. And we weren't groomed, we didn't have that team. So we felt like we were almost set out to the lions. We didn't have media training. - Interesting. - It was just, I think what, what the attraction was for Liberty, towards Liberty, we were only Liberty at the time, was that we were raw. And that was quite evident because we didn't know when to stop, say, talk, hit no, or what not to say. And we were on the fact that we were able to, we were able to bring our creative energy to what we put out there, which was, which usually doesn't happen, well, it doesn't happen to manufacture bands, actually. But the press battles us and hearsay off from the get-go, flop stars, wannabes, the five losers. And it was evident that they wanted us to fail. Not just, not just hearsay as a team, but the people around them. And so that would have then stirred up the pot with the hearsay members in order to, you know, add fuel to the fire when they did interviews about how they were bigger and better and we were not so. And that we were running on their court tales. How did you feel? 'Cause you were, these were your friends, you know, a few months prior when you were filming. - It felt, it felt really harsh. We didn't know how to navigate it. It felt like it wasn't the five people that we met in the audition process. And, and, and long all of this, all I kind of wanted to do was reach out to Suzanne. - Yeah. That's like one of the people that I got really close to and be like, how is it? Like, what's it like? - Yes. - Like, I bet it's amazing. Like, I really wanted to share that with her. And at no point did I see what we were doing is hanging on their court tales. And I have to say, like, my skin's not, I say it's thick. Just really peep-a-thin. If it wasn't for the rest of the Liberty X members, I don't think I would have got through it as well as I did. But we had each other. And, and that's what made our strength, I think, as a band. - You know, one thing about Liberty X. And I say Liberty X because it was, you were Liberty. - Yeah. - And then was it some other group had Liberty or? - Yeah, some, some minor group. Got a bit sore. There's a subject who wanted their name back. So they were Liberty. So I'm, I'm sure they've used it well. (laughing) And so, yeah, they took us to court, you know. - And then you become Liberty X. - That's right. - Now, I think what, and I don't want to even stir up more issues between you and hearsay. - Oh, no. - But I can see Miley's picture of my, in my eye line right here. - 'Cause we love hearsay here, right? But one thing I didn't realize was how successful Liberty X was, right? So Liberty X, you have now, so achieved international success. So the album featuring just a little, right? That single was the ninth best-selling single in 2002, right? That's major. Also, the group you had 10 consecutive UK top 20 singles. So is it, or should I say, am I correct in saying that Liberty X sold more than hearsay? - Yeah, that would be correct. Yep, yeah, we did. We had three albums and we had a big massive select tour. We won a Brit Awards for our song and for two album awards. And we won a Nive in the Velo Awards. And so, yes. So putting it, frankly, yeah. Ultimately, Liberty X were more successful than hearsay. - The first question that I have is that you're a classically trained artist. So at all are you thinking there's any shame doing pop? Does family place any shame on you for going in this direction? - My dad was horrified that I'd given up a year's work as Mary Magdalene. And it's Mary Magdalene, don't forget. - Yes. - Yes. - For six weeks in a band. I was told you'll get a six weeks work in a band over Christmas, and I said, that sounds fun. I had a culture shock 'cause I was sitting in this room and everyone was crying and everyone was unprepared and no one had learned their lines or their songs and they'd been given parts to learn. And you're going to be given different configurations and they're going to see which songs blend with which voices and learn the dance moves. And I could not get it in my head that nobody was learning it. And that's not even Asian value. That's like the Royal Academy and that's being in Miss Saigon in West End Theatre. And it's like just the training is do the job that someone's asked you to do. But in so doing it, and it really lost out because one day the rehearsal pianist didn't show up. And that's how I got in the band. I was playing. I remember it was a certain member of Liberty X who was like, I don't know what I'm singing. I haven't cut my music and I'll cut your music for you and I cut it down to, I don't know, 20 bars. And I was playing it. And then Nigelisco, Paul Azum, Nikki Chapman, who walks in, Nigel said, you can play the piano. Why didn't you say it? And I was like, you never asked. - That sealed the deal. - Yeah. - All right, so you're now in the group. And your thought is that you're going to be a part of something for just a few weeks and that's it. So help, for everyone who had not seen pop stars though, how does the show end and then how does that catapult the group into the zeitgeist of the UK public? - It's so weird because I've wrote two years worth of diaries around this type of experience. And when I read them back, when I look back at all of this and then I match it up to what was going on, you know, on the outside, I suppose, looking in. I mean, there's fame like you could never ever encounter. It was like parody. It was like something of spinal tap or it was like the Beatles. People were coming to our shows and there were crushes at the signings and it was overnight fame, selling millions of records that we'd only just heard the song ourselves. It was pretty instantaneous. And I was so glad to have the rest of the band going through it at the same time. And so as much as we were all together all the time, probably driving each other nuts, also we became like family because it was just us. But we were at the absolute height. It was both the halcyon days of fame. - Yes. - Because I don't know, 25 million tuned in to see us become this band, get the number one and what happens now? - There's 25 million. - Yes, it was a vent viewing. It was just the beginning of the internet, it was the beginning of camera phones because we were right at the very dawn of it. I remember it very clearly. Somebody first put in the phone in my face and Danny from the van going, "Oh my God, the phones are gone, cameras now." We're not safe. It was all happening at once because before that, we had the flip phones. We were advertising the flip phones. - Yeah, I mean, that's practically, at that time, this practically half the population of the UK. That's incredible. - Oh, it was, I say it to my children now, tried to paint the picture for them what it was like. But it was just, it was overnight fame and it was just huge. - So pure and simple, first, right? It debuts at number one in the UK charts. It becomes the fastest selling debut single at the time. So it sets a record for that. So can we speak to what actually happened behind the scenes? Here's. When I, once again, I was not here, so I didn't live through it, but I've now experienced it. I've lived through the culture of it. I've lived through the culture of it for sure, and I've now lived through the research of it. And what I find to be so fascinating is, I don't think I've ever seen a group go from obscurity to notoriety and then break up in such a short period of time. Yeah. Because it was in essence, correct me if I'm wrong here, 2000, 2001. Yeah. To 2002? About 18 months. I mean, we thought we were going to be bigger than you too. We didn't even get, I don't know. We got out of one territory. I think we got number one in New Zealand as well. Okay. But now I know the nature of the beast and how it worked and how operated. You know, it's that be careful what you wish for. We had everything, but we were also broke. We had these number ones, but you know, we didn't have the advanced through yet. We didn't know how the business side of music worked. I knew music, I knew every court, I knew some of the court is better than the producers working with us, but I didn't know business. Did you have agents aside? Oh, boys, we have agents, but problem number two, it just is an industry as we are learning that can attract any facet of society, any any kind of character. There is no graded scheme of entry. You can have a mate who's like, "Oh, do you know what my brother drives cars?" And suddenly the next thing, you know, he's the driver, next thing, you know, he's the tall manager. Suddenly you can work your way up in a very different manner and you don't know, you know, no one's DBS checks, nobody's, there's nothing. Right. It's just, it's not like, "Hi, I'm a brain surgeon. I'll have a go." Right. It's a very different set of rules and operational skills. The music industry is the Wild West. Yes. Now, when did you first recognise it was the Wild West? Because I would imagine that when you enter the show, you're still somewhat guarded. You're very optimistic about what's going to happen. You don't know how large you're going to be. And then as the notoriety comes, that's when graph, that's when, should I say, leeches come. Oh, yeah. Right. But what was the first moment where you realised, "Oh my God, what am I doing here? What's going on? What is this?" I mean, there's so many of those epiphanies that it was just relentless. I think it was what the gloves came off when anyone could say anything they wanted to about your families. I found information where they were trying to find out about my family in the Philippines, you know, really digging deep. And you are then answerable to all those people. You have a responsibility. So you're not now just singing pure and simple all three and a half minutes of it on stage and learning the dance routines. You're now trying to look after your family. There's people coming out that suddenly, they need money. I mean, I never knew I had so much family. It was suddenly like. Interesting. So people coming out the woodwork, the woodwork too. Oh, yeah. Backed brands that you hadn't spoken to, everybody, you know, it, and it's a lot, it's a lot for young minds to deal with. Yes, on top of the constant scrutiny, the body image, scrutiny, sexuality, who you're with, who you're not with, what you said, what you didn't say. So who do you trust at this time? Only each other. Only each other. I mean, my hands are tied because there's so much I would love to say to you, but obviously there was other forces at play as well with phone tapping and things. But I guess you can move between the lines that the only time we could really be really safe is when we were just talking to each other. But then you imagine five of us, trauma-bonded, all going through the same thing, all terrified that each other's secrets or family secrets or worries or woes. And sometimes those stories would be fake. Sometimes those stories would be planted. Sometimes those stories, yeah, are used to cover up something else. Like you never know what's true. Well, you don't remember. No agent is alone shark. All agents that, you know, they might have other bands. So all you need to do, if you really want to start getting into it, is match up which agent has which bands, and match up which person got protected. And suddenly it all starts to make sense. And then suddenly you start realizing, well, who is playing what? Which role, yeah. So is it, did you feel protected during that time? We were not protected. We were almost bait, I would say. I have been screwed over by agents, managers, dodgy accountants. Can we talk about the end of the group before it disbanded? Yeah. Because it was one thing that I read is that, you know, there were moments where you were touring. And as you said, it's people. It's thousands upon thousands showing up, cheering you on. Yeah. But then there were moments towards the end where there weren't cheers at the time. No. No. I remember someone throwing a chicken chair, I mean, at me. That's how the racism came back in again on stage. Things like that. Yeah. Or nobody showing up, no manager, no tour manager. I remember my brother, because he wasn't old enough to rock, to drive, getting on his bike, to drop off a duct tape so that we could perform. The groups of the group could perform. We, I got told by my manager, because I said, the backdrop's really creased. What are we going to do? And he went, you're going to have to iron it. Have you ever seen how big a backdrop is? Literally, you're going to have to iron it. He's like an after iron it. I'm like, where are you? Turned out he was where he shouldn't have been so that I had a phone call from his wife. That's how he, say, ended it fizzled. It just was left. It was just left to die. I closed out. I turned the lights out. Literally. I literally turned the lights out and it was heartbreaking because at the time I didn't want it to end. It was, we took a vote. Everything was about a vote. And I've made peace with it now, because I realised that we're all kids. None of us, none of us are in control of it. But I didn't want it to end. But the vote was yes. And I remember walking into a meeting where one guy said, we've got 250,000 Easter eggs with your faces on them. I was like, I don't know. Almost it was almost comical. I haven't gotten answer as to what you're going to do with 250,000. But I can imagine, because if I'm on the receiving end now and I put all my money into this group and they can't get their act together, and I've invested all this money and Easter's on the way. Then, how does the group go on this demise so quickly? Because so I understand the pressure being placed. I understand that the agents are not consistent. I understand all of those aspects, but at the same time, it was like, it was consistent hits. The debut album reached number one and sold over a million copies. So you were red hot. The group was red hot. How does it fall off so quickly? I think we just didn't have anyone who was solidifying us as a group. So at the time, it's at the end, the same old story, but it was major mismanagement. Because as a mum now, I know that you have to rally the troops. Yes. And if you've got people going off in different directions, as a mum, someone's got to bring you back together and go, right, this is what we're doing. This is when we're doing it. What does the group need? You're only as strong as the weakest performer person, personality, whatever's going on there with that person. And in that moment, you carry them. And when I look back at what was going on, we were not, we were not a solid unit, and we were not being encouraged to be either. So if there was a cheeky booking here and there was a shoot here, well, if I'm the manager and I'm like, well, let's bring in the money, I'd just send everyone out and all of these separate gigs. And in so doing, you then cause division in the ranks. I see. Everyone had come from humble beginnings. Not one person in that band had some privileged upbringing. And so that was taken advantage of. And rather than seeing the power of the group, we were divided. I see. Can you disclose how much you made during that period? It's not a patch one I make now because it was split between five, the band. Then it was split with the manager six. Then it was split with the record company seven. Then it was split with the TV company eight. Then you bring in tax. I mean, all those people that were trying to take advantage of us. They did it with our time and our image and they obviously took their cut. But we weren't making the amount of money that people think we were. I mean, we've just talked about a lot of challenging moments, right, in that 18 months. But I would imagine there were some incredible moments before me. We sang with Lionel Richie. Did you? He walked out on stage and one of us cried and one of us, we were just, it's Lionel Richie. I played the piano for Sugarcarn. It's like, you know, all the things you dream of doing and then you're doing them. Yes. It's just magical. And that's what makes it worth it. What was the most? I mean, performing with Lionel Richie, playing for Sugarcarn. Those are up there. Was there anything that you think? This is like, this is what I will tell my grandchildren, this moment. Okay, so the very first concert that I ever went to was my own and it was at Wembley. So when I said, Hello Wembley. I couldn't even get the word. that's out because it was just magic. And if you wanna hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need To Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week. (upbeat music)