The Governor of Maryland was Built on Hip Hop Influences

My earliest music love affair was hip-hop. You could literally just push play on Biggie's albums right now and not skip a song. He's painting this picture that you can see. These are storytellers, for example. A rest of development had this whole different kind of vibe, showing a different level of black culture. Music is infused in everything that I do. When you look at how lyrics and art forms have been used to prosecute in the case of hip-hop, it was used over 840 times. This is a big part of your job. We made it illegal. You cannot use someone's art against them in a court of law. I knew that I wanted to run specificity for governor because I knew so many of the policies that were hurting our communities were being made from a governor's office. There should be a sense of hope and optimism about what tomorrow should look like. In the words of Kendrick Lamar, you know, we're going to be all right. I like that. All right, before we start the music, introduce yourself. Mm-hmm. What's going on, tracks our family? I'm Wes Moore, governor of Maryland, and a music addict. Yes. So tell me about some of your earliest memories of music. What was some of the stuff that caught your ear? I would say probably my earliest music love affair was hip-hop, where hip-hop was almost a way to explain my world to a wider audience. It was a chance for you to kind of talk about who you are, what your hopes, dreams, aspirations, fears were, but do it to a beat. But we also came up in a family that, you know, everything from the motown and, you know, gospel and all that was kind of constantly clang throughout. So all of our movements kind of moved to a beat. Let's see. Yo, I mean, you can. Oh, I know the whole thing. A rest of development, everyday people. All right, and I remember this one was hot because the first time, oh, we got to keep it going. We got to keep it going. Oh, yeah. And this video is going to be playing in the background. OK, cool, cool, cool. So the whole video was wild because it wasn't like the traditional hip-hop video that people remember. Because usually, at that time, when this song came out, a lot of the hip-hop at that point was more aggressive hip-hop. It was, you know, that was really like kind of like that scene end of the hood kind of hip-hop. And then a rest of development had this whole different kind of vibe, kind of like this southern, you know, showing a different level of black culture that hip-hop generally didn't expose at that time. So a rest of development was like a whole mind shift for a lot of people. And even for a lot of people who traditionally came from hip-hop backgrounds, it's also showed a different level of life and a different type and style of life that I think was beautiful. But yeah, but a rest of development shout out. Good first. Yeah, man. That was a good one. That was a good one. Well, we'll do a couple. We'll do a mix of things. OK. But we got to do a little bit in New York representation. [MUSIC PLAYING] I'm sick of it in your average, pop and shit, camera, soap, is stink. Don't think, get it, get it, get it. My Detroit play is Tim's From A Home Against a Brooklyn. Biggie. You know all the words, all the songs. All the words. Well, you know, so funny. Hip-hop actually played a really interesting role for me, too, because I was not doing well in school. Yeah. And so my mother, and so I would have teachers who would tell my mom's like, maybe, you know, I think he might have learning differences. He doesn't pick up information. And my mother was like, that's interesting, because there was actually a song called "Treat 'em Right" by Chubrock. 1990, Chubrock jumps upon the scene with a lean and a pocket full of grip. And I remember sitting in the car with my mom. And Chubrock comes on the radio. And I start reciting all the lyrics. And 1990, Chubrock jumps upon the scene with a lean and a pocket full of grip. And we put on a graphic and my mother's looking at me. She's like, when did you learn this song? And I was like, you know, I think I came on a couple days ago. And that's when my mother's mind, she's like, he doesn't have a problem learning information. He has a problem learning this information. He's lazy. He's not doing what he should be doing. But the problem isn't that he's not picking up things. Because I'm accidentally watching him like he's like, like rockin' a crowd of Madison Square Garden. It's the style of sort of explaining something and breaking it down to you and making sure that the message is working for the recipient. That's right. It wasn't like, I wasn't listening. The question was, was I hearing it? Yeah. And I was hearing hip-hop. Because it was something that I resonated with. It's something that, you know, that I resonate with my friends as we were talking. And so it just showed that how we think about what our folks are going to process, what our kids and young people are going to process. It might be in the delivery. It might be in how we're packaging. But, you know, don't think for a second, they're not, they're not clicking. And then, so, you know, for me, I think about Biggie. And the fact that he was taken so young, but you could literally just push play on Biggie's albums right now and not skip a song and still have songs that would be classics right now. Like, that's how talented this dude was. Again, 20, whatever, 30 years later, I still remember the words to these songs. I think it says a lot about how important they were. There's this clarity and directness, talking about the CNN of the other thing you were talking about in his message. Everything that he says is crystal clear. And that's what makes him, I think, such a brilliant lyricist. And also just a lot of hip-hop from that era. It's like the message is so important. And even going back to the earliest forms of hip-hop, that's what it was about. It was about telling this story into the microphone. And there was a musical element, but I feel like now we've gone in this, in this sort of other direction with a lot of hip-hop, where it's so creative and artistic, but it's more about the musical side than about like the lyrical content and the same, or it's like hidden and it's distorted. Some of that, no, he's written. And sometimes, like, honestly, with even some of the new hip-hop, I'm like, I actually don't understand the journey they're taking on here. You can't remember the words. It's like, I don't get it, you know what I mean? But the thing I loved about, kind of like that old school hip-hop, and it's so crazy even calling it like big-y old school hip-hop, but that is technically old school hip-hop. It's been a while. But he really is, like, these are storytellers. They're taking you on a journey. And so, when Biggie's talking about whether it's, you know, the 10-CRAC Commandments. Number two, never know your next move. Don't you know bad boys move a silence or violence? Take it from your heart. Or when you're listening to, you know, to Keras 1, you know, giving the message. ♪ No, no, no, that's for that ♪ ♪ Three, no, that's for that ♪ ♪ No, that's for that ♪ ♪ God, yeah, that's for that ♪ They're taking you on a journey. And they're trying to either gain a measure of acceptance, understanding, or comfortability for people who understand the talk about, or for people who did not understand, almost opening a window into the world, that people can see the psychology that a lot of people are going into, that was really meaningful, especially for a kid like me at that time, who was very much trying to discover in my own mind. What is this journey that I'm on? - So what changed for you in school? Like how did it, when did it, what clicked? 'Cause you become very successful. - Yeah, and everything's turned. - You're very educated and you have all, like how did that, something shifted? - You know, honestly, I think what happened for me was, I got sent to military school when I was young. So I moved around when I was a kid, born in Maryland, moved us to the Bronx, got sent to military school in Pennsylvania, and I moved around a lot, not because of choice, 'cause of tragedy, right? So my dad died in front of me when I was three years old. My mom had us go up to the Bronx to go live with my grandparents, but I still consistently found myself almost trying to gain a footing. And, you know, I got sent to, I went to a school that was a cross-town called Riverdale. And it was a place where I very quickly find myself almost being like too poor for the kids in school, but too rich for the kids now in the neighborhood who didn't understand why I didn't go to school in school in the neighborhood. And that caused a lot of tension and anger and swirling. And so when I was, I think around 13, I got sent to a military school because of the issues that I was getting into back at home. And the military school was horrible for me at first. I mean, in the first four days, I ran away five times and all that kind of stuff. Like it was just, it was a, it was a bad fit. But then eventually I actually got connected with the people there. I had a better understanding of what it is that I was supposed to be doing, and I get a chance to almost remake myself and remake my identity. And by the end of that first year, I had a chance to go back to school at this time, we were getting ready, we were moving back to Maryland. I had a chance to go back to school down there and I said, "Actually, if I was okay, "I'd like to sit tight in military school." Because I found a sense of belonging. I found a sense when people ask my mom like, "How's West doing?" She could say, "He's doing well and not be lying." And that was really meaningful to me. And so I think what I found there was just this sense of collective responsibility and ownership that I think I was really missing before I showed up there. - What you're talking about is this journey that every kid has to go on, where they need to find the right situation to figure out who they want to be when they grow up, which is one of the hardest things that anyone does. Like, what am I gonna, I don't know, it could be anything, it's scary. But when there's instability in your life, it's so much harder to do that. - Yes. dealing with a situation like poverty, the biggest one, or health issues with your family, or all these things that people around the country face all the time, figuring that out, figuring that path out becomes so much harder for people. And I feel like this is a big part of your job. So someone in your shoes is helping make that a little bit easier so kids can figure that out and go on that journey. - And many ways is why I decided to run in the first place, because a lot of people are like, "You're not like an average politician." It's like, "No, I'm not, and I'm not trying to be." Because this is the first elected job I've held in my life. This is the first job I've ever selected as I've ran for. - Yeah. - I've never been involved in politics before any of this. But I knew that I wanted to run specifically for governor because I knew so many of the policies that were hurting our communities were being made from a governor's office. That a governor has a unique responsibility because when you think about everything from the air we are breathing, to the water we are drinking, to the food options you have in your neighborhood, to how you're policed, to the transportation you have in your neighborhood, like all of that is a policy decision. Someone made a decision about what options you would have. And so people have been making decisions, limiting the options for so many people, particularly a lot of people who came up in the communities and neighborhoods that I came up in. And so I thought that if this was something that we could do, to be able to let kids know that we actually believe in them because I felt like there were many times in my life where I was growing up in areas where I don't think that they believed in me. I think that they looked at me as a problem that needed to be solved and not necessarily an asset that needed to be unleashed. And so the thing about it is, and you know who sees that and feels that most, the kids, like when you're growing in a neighborhood that's over pleased, you know it. When you're growing in a place that doesn't have where the only food options you have is the bodega, or the only food options you have is the corner store, you know that. And so how do we present new type of options for kids to know that they should actually have a say in their future and to know that we are gonna hold their dreams up long enough for their shoulders to become broad enough. So like now, I don't need anyone's help to hold my dreams up. I can hold them up my own, but it wasn't always like that. And so I wanted to create a better place in Maryland where we can create those real opportunities for our kids. - When you're a world, you don't know what you don't know too. - So when your world is small, you don't realize, it's like, sometimes it's just about showing people and sort of uncovering their eyes, but their eyes can be covered by all these systematic things that are getting in the way, that are like, hey, there's actually no grocery store with vegetables around here, correct. But you don't even know what you don't know. - Correct, you both don't even know what to dream. And at some point, you become afraid to dream because you don't wanna be disappointed. So like, why would I have high expectations when I know those expectations are never be met? So then what you do is you lower your expectations and you lower your expectations. And so the adventure to the point, you have no expectations. And that's why, you know, and I remember, I learned it, you know, early, you know, this concept, got a chance to meet this guy named, you know, whose name was Wes Moore, who's actually incarcerated. I wrote a book called The Other Wes Moore. And I remember he said something to me that I thought was really, really profound where I said to him, do you think that we're products of our environments? And he said to me, actually, I think we're products of our expectations. And I thought to myself, he's just changed decades of thinking in a sentence because we're not products of our environments. We're products of our expectations. The expectations that other people have of us because the expectations that other people have of us become the expectations that we have of ourselves. And we will internalize them and we will either live up to them if people have high expectations for us or we will live down to them if people have low expectations of us. And that's why I think that our society is full of people no matter where they are, who have lived up to their expectations. (upbeat music) Try, try call, try call quest. We on a war talk. We on a war talk with my man going each and every place with a mic in my hand. I'm back, man, I'm back. I'm back, you got me, you got me in my zone right now. You know, try was so cool because I would say you have tribe, you have De La, De La Soul is another one. Who they were always so different because they were almost like this neo-funk hip-hop, where they just brought a different type of vibe to what hip-hop was, what hip-hop was supposed to look like. And tribe was great because you had Q-tip who was like all the ladies love Q-tip and he was all just very cool and suave and everything. And then you had like the energy was fight. But whenever fight came on, it was like everything just started jumping because you saw how they just played off each other very, very well. And that was actually one of the cool things about how hip-hop kind of evolved and hip-hop kind of grew because you had these, you know, you see kind of like that group ensemble where everybody had a different role to play and again, you know, whether you're talking about kid and play had a very similar, you know, very similar type of set up. Dayla had a very similar type of set up. When you looked at Wu-Tang, Wu-Tang like what are you talking about? You know, the Rizza, the Jizza, ODB method. All of them were very different and they all played a very different role inside that group. And so I think that that was a time when the individual personalities of hip-hop kind of show that you have the individual, but when you brought them together as a collective, like they had in Tribe Called Quest, it was just, it was magic. Speaking of groups, speaking of groups, this is the roots, the roots, black thought, another one where you saw the individuals who, when they got together, made a remarkable collective. And you think about what Quest and black thought, never like that. And the amazing thing about the roots is, you know, first of all, shout out to Philly. But then the second thing is their contribution to hip-hop has just lasted generations, where the same way you're watching, like, and when you look at the roots picnic, look at the audience in the roots picnic, right? Where you had some artists that were new, some artists that were little like teenagers who were relatively new in the scene, and then you had Jay-Z come out. But the beautiful thing is, that's the roots, that you had, the roots can bring out everyone from the real hip-hop heads to the people who learned about them on Jimmy Fallon, yeah. That they have found a way of transcending so many aspects of society, but still being so authentically who they are. That they can go out there and they can jam on late night television, but then they can also go out there and, you know, have, you know, play, you know, you got me and have everyone just, everyone bob in their head. Questlove told me that, you know, when they started, it was like three of them, and then they, okay, let's add this, we'll add the horns over here, we'll add this, and he's like next, we're talking about Earth, Wind, and Fire, which is like a 15-piece band at different points. - That's right. - And he was like, and I realized like, you know, 15 years in, like, are we just Earth-winded? (laughing) 'Cause the roots just kept growing. But you know what, though? - That's what roots do. - I could honestly, that's what roots do. They just keep growing. I could honestly see a situation where the same way where you have people who's still right now rock out to Earth, Wind, and Fire, where we could have like my grandkids will still be rocking out to the roots. I could absolutely see it, them being one of those groups that just transcends. - This is your first job in politics. - Yes. - What's it been like? Do you like being governor? - I love it. - I mean, you're running again. - I'm running again. - Enough to try it, won't want to. - That's right, we're going run of that. I love it because it's like, you know, I remember when I first ran for governor, I will go out in communities, and people will come up to you, and they would say, you know, like, hey, can I talk to you for a second? And I knew the only consistent thing that I was about to hear was whatever I was about to hear, it was something that was about to break my heart. - Yeah. - Right? No one walks up to me when I was running for governor and says, hey, I just want to tell you how great my life is. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? Like, they're about to tell you something that was going to, you were going to think about for the rest of the day. - Yeah. - And when I was running for governor, the best thing I could say to them was, yeah, you know, and that's why I'm running for governor, because I want to do something about that. But now that I am the governor, I still have people who will come up to me on the street, because we're outside, wherever we're. And who will come and say, you know, Mr. governor, kind of talk to you for a second. And it's the same thing. People won't come up and say, I just want to tell you, you know, everything is just so awesome, you know what I mean? Like, I will get people come and say, like, I also want to let you know that you passed X and that really helped my family. Or you did this and that was really successful. That was really helpful. But never, you know, like, I just want to say, everything is amazing. Usually they're going to tell you something in the same situation that is probably going to break your heart. There's a difference now though. Now I can tell them. Let me make sure I get some information. We can work on some legislation together, and we can fix this. Or then I can say, you know what, that's actually something that we can address right now. Let me put you in touch with so-and-so, and we're gonna make sure we get that housing situation fixed. We'll make sure we get that utility bill situation fixed. We can make sure we, you know, support you and your child inside of the neighborhood, or the, you know, the community that you're living in. Like, that's the beauty of the job is that there is, there's an immediacy of the impact that we can make, which I just, I absolutely love. It's like, I don't get to sit there and, you know, I don't have the luxury of just sitting there complaining and throwing up my hands and saying, this is horrible, and this sucks, or give a big speech about it. Like, no, like, as a governor, you can actually do something about it, and I love that. It probably also stems a little bit from like your military background, like being, trying to be a problem solver. And the ability to, like, understand, I have a list of tasks. - Yes. - Let me check off some things. 100%. And, you know, I always say, I think this job in many ways is the most fulfilling job that I've had since leading soldiers in combat, because, like, every day mattered. And the only thing that you knew, 'cause, like, you know, with the job that I have, I was a director of information operations for the first brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division. So, we had the entire air of operations on the eastern border of Afghanistan, the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. At the time when we were over there, this was one of the most dangerous places in the world, right? And so, I had this team of people who work on psychological operations, information operations, a team of what they call and so-com, which is Special Operations Command, right? And we were out there multiple times a week, outside of the wire, being able to work to try to bring fighters in from the cold, generally Taliban fighters in from the cold. So, this was a very complicated operation, but we knew that every day mattered, because every fighter that we could get off the battlefield was someone who was not gonna be laying out I-80s. This was someone who was not going to go out and terrorize communities and neighborhoods. This was someone who we knew could then start building up a new and a different life for them and their family or being able, or, you know, making sure that we were not gonna have to see them kinetically later on. And so, I loved that work because I knew that, you know, like Wednesday was never gonna look like Tuesday, and Tuesday was never gonna look like Monday, but every day was gonna matter. And I kind of feel the same way about that as governor, where I literally have a clock that sits on my desk, telling me how many days I have left in my first term. And the reason I had that clock on my desk is because I'm not trying to waste one of those days, 'cause I'm very clear about what we're trying to accomplish. We're gonna mix it up. Cool. ♪ This is a mean old world to live in ♪ ♪ Just say I'm cooked ♪ Maybe one of the purest voices that you can possibly imagine. And Sam was really interesting because, I mean, had a very tragic life, his tragic life ended, his life ended very tragically. But had one of these voices that was just able to penetrate everything in society. You know, I still say that, you know, he had so many different classics, you know, a change gun come is maybe one of the best songs ever recorded. ♪ It's been a long ♪ ♪ A long time coming, but I know ♪ The song that was, you know, again, not just used cinematically multiple times, but a song that just gave you so much clarity and so much lift, no matter what situation that you were in. And it wasn't just kind of the words that you saw for a change gun come. It really was Sam's voice. Maybe one of the most soothing voices that God has ever blessed any of us with. But yeah, he was that dude, even though, again, a very tragic life and a very tragic end to his life. How do you stay optimistic? Well, honestly, one is music really does. I mean, music is infusing everything that I do. I mean, when I wake up in the morning, I will wake up to, you know, I don't use, like, kind of, like, alarm's like, I will have music. That will, that will, and usually the music will be something that I hope will set me on the right tone. Like, for example, I will wake up to optimistic by sounds of blackness. ♪ It's love as you do ♪ ♪ Go ahead and start ♪ I will wake up to blue magic by cheesy. ♪ And I'm getting it, I'm getting it ♪ ♪ I ain't talking about it, I'm living it ♪ But I wake up to songs that I feel like gets me in a different mindset about how I'm supposed to approach a day. And then all throughout the day, music really does serve as a backdrop for who I am. But I think the other thing that really does give me, keep me optimistic is, like, I know history. And as difficult as these times are. - Yeah. - The thing that continues to give me real passion and inspiration is, I know that we've seen really difficult times before. That there's nothing about this moment as devastating and as complicated as for so many families. We've seen complicated and devastating in this country before. We've seen inequality, we've seen brutality, we've seen policies that don't match our aspirations and we've seen politicians that lie to our face. We've experienced that for our whole life, yeah. And so the thing that gives me a sense of hope and optimism is despite all of that, it's like, still I rise. And with that, I think that kind of is what gives me the understanding that, you know, that, you know, in the words of Kendrick Lamar, you know, we gonna be all right. I like that. All right, let's do one more song. - All right. Oh man, there's so many choices. - There's some good choices. You got some goons. Queen Nina, Queen Nina, Baltimore. Baltimore is one of the most magical cities in America. It's a city that has had constant ups and downs, constant tensions. It's a city of the birthplace of Thurgood Marshall and it's also the city that was the birthplace of redlining. So you've seen some of America's greatest treasures that were born in Baltimore and some of the most horrific racist policies that were also born in Baltimore. ♪ Oh, Baltimore, Baltimore ♪ ♪ Ain't it hard, just to live ♪ - Ain't it hard just to live. - Ain't it hard just to live. Oh, Baltimore, Ain't it hard just to live. And that's like, and again, you think about that. Not thrive, not Ain't it hard just to live. And so Baltimore's always taken on this very iconic and traumatic image in American culture. - Yeah. - Where, you know, it was homicide. It was the wire. It was all this kind of stuff that a lot of people got introduced to Baltimore from that did tell an accurate story for a lot of people who grew up in Baltimore, but it didn't really unearth the promise. When I first became the governor, I was like, we're gonna put a focus on Baltimore. And I would go all around the state, we got to lift up Baltimore, we got to score Baltimore. And people would tell me, like, listen, I don't know if you should be going out to like, you know, Western Maryland, talking about what you're gonna do for Baltimore. And I said, but listen, guys, I'm not saying I'm gonna lift up Baltimore because I'm a homer. I'm saying we need to lift up Baltimore because it's our state's largest city. And it's because I'm good at math. You cannot have a thriving state if the state's largest city is not thriving. So in order for this to be, you know, in order for this to be Maryland's decade, it's gotta be Baltimore's time. And so we have made historic investments in try to do violence prevention. We've now seen how the violence prevention rate, the violent crime rate in Maryland, has now been essentially cut in half since our administrations come on board. Baltimore City in 2022, Baltimore City was averaging about a homicide a day. It's talking about ain't it hard just to live? And we started working with our mayor, our state's attorney, our local law enforcement, community violence and to ruptures, giving them the resources that they need in order to activate plans that could work. We've now seen how the homicide rate in Baltimore and in the state of Maryland has among had amongst the fastest drop in the country. And Baltimore City, the last time the homicide rate was this low, I wasn't born yet. And so we're watching a renaissance, economic renaissance, public safety renaissance, housing renaissance. That's taking place in Baltimore that when I think about what Queen Nina was talking about, where it's like ain't it hard just to live? And what I want for Baltimore to know and what I want for this country to know is we're actually taking and working together to turn that dynamic on its head where it's not that it ain't it's hard just to live. But this is a place that we need to thrive for our country to be able to do its thing. That's what we were talking about earlier. If it's hard, if it's just hard to live, everything else is impossible. That's it, right? And it's like, and we want people to know they have something to live for. because. Because when you know you have something to live for, then you'll never stop fighting. When you know that there should be a sense of hope and optimism about what tomorrow should look like, then you look at today very differently. And that's all we want for our folks. We want them to know that they're loved and supported. We want them to know that we actually believe in them. And we believe in a sense of what they can be and what they can accomplish. And I think if we can do that as a larger society, then we've done our job. And to know that everything that that we hope for, we've got a chance for them to be able to achieve and it's into our interest that they're actually successful. So it makes this country great is the ability to dream. But if people don't have that ability, it's not working. Everybody has to have that. Everybody has to be able to dream. That's the thing that makes the whole country special. That's right. There should be that opportunity we got to, man, because listen, the thing that makes this country so great is that this has been a country of dreamers. Yeah. I mean, like this has been a country of inventors and entrepreneurs and people who could remake themselves and people who come up with a whole new identity. I mean, I think that's part of the beauty of music, right, that it's this beautiful art form for us to be able to express themselves, for us to be able to capture our ambitions within it, and to be able to capture our ambitions and our realities and to do it to a beat. You know, I think about, I just recently signed a bill called the Pace Act. Yeah. Basically, it was taking a look at the fact that when you look at how lyrics and art forms have been used to prosecute against people, in the case of hip hop, it was used over 840 times. It literally used hip hop lyrics to prosecute somebody. Yeah. Every other musical genre, every other art form, four times. Hip hop, 840, every other musical genre, four. And so what we basically did was we made it illegal in the state of Maryland, Maryland now being one of the only states that has done this, but I want this to go out of the states as well. Whereas like, you cannot prosecute somebody for their art form. You can't prosecute like, because I think to myself, how many cases could, how many cases could we give to Leonardo DiCaprio, and Al Pacino, and Robert De Nero, when they were expressing an art form, right? Yeah. And so this basically says you cannot use someone's art or someone's lyrics against them in a court of law. This is about how are we talking about to unleash an idea of opening up people's minds and allowing creativity and entrepreneurship. And that's the thing to be able to flourish because that's been the thing that has helped our country to be able to grow in the first place. You're going to win again this year? Oh, yeah. Are we going to beat the breaks off of them? Great to meet you. Great to meet you too, Jack. Appreciate you, Jack. Pleasure. Pleasure's all month. Tracks our podcast is a presentation of public opinion created by me, Jack Coin, Kirin Coin and Henry Cronaros, produced by Haley Sobel, edited by Simone Warnoff, theme and original composition by Kirin Coin, mixing by Devin Klein. Our agent is Joanne Orland at UTA. Thanks for listening. See you next Wednesday.