The Golden Age of Reality Competitions

I think nothing can quite compare to what was happening in the early 2000s. There was like 40 million people watching a finale of Survivor, 52, you better come up and roll. Bar. Our shorts and it's best to listen after dark. Big Brother's watching you and Big Brother was Julie Chatton. Because I lived and died by entertainment tonight. Honey! When Mary Hart was on TV, I was at the couch. Housewives fans, Survivor fans, and Big Brother fans. The thing is, I'm all in those fans. The challenge, well, I'm not into that. You must have been on idle. Yeah, I was on like idle forums. I was on a few forums. You were running them. Honey, William Heng's audition, we will look back on that as humiliation ritual. I'm on the show. What? Yeah. His? That's crazy. And I would listen to it. Sometimes you can't discern between what's Canadian media and what's American media. Search for the next week, Jay. Oh my god, yes! That's a show. Show me! It was so good. Tim Began's. Yes. What's not a gay awakening, but I was a wake. I was already awake, but boy was I. Wow. Jay. I heart radio Canada presents Bestie Listen. We're talking reality TV today, Sean. Love a reality competition program. Famously. I famously love a reality competition program, and that is Survivor, but we're here to talk so much more than just Survivor. But you know what? It's always going to come back to that for me, unfortunately. But that and hook. I wasn't going to bring it up. What if we did? Do you remember how do you solve a problem like Maria, the reality TV show, where they found Maria for Broadway or possibly Princess of Wales here? It was from Irvish. But what if we did? How do you find a Bestie Listen? How do you solve a problem like Jordan? You don't want to Jordan. Scrap that idea. I don't know what did you want to do. Well, we could do like a finding hook, finding Neverland. Oh my God, it writes itself. OK, let's talk reality TV. It's so tired. Let's talk reality TV. But I did love that you mentioned that obscure Canadian teak reality competition show. This is the thing with Canadian media is sometimes, especially when you're younger, you can't discern between what's Canadian media and what's American media. Sometimes it's clear. Yeah. Sometimes it's not. And for me, it wasn't that young. I thought that was like, I thought that was the new American idol. So you was like, do you remember pop stars? Yes. Not the Danny DeKane show, the Sugar Jones show. But who came after Sugar Jones? Velvet Underground? Velvet Empire. We just alienated 90-- well, actually, this audience is probably-- I'll understand this. They're gone. Velvet Empire, that one song that they had. It didn't shake. No mistake. Everyone talks about Sugar Jones. Sugar Jones is incredible. I love Sugar Jones. But for me, Velvet Empire was on at least four mixed cities that I made. So. Anyway, so what we have already, obviously, but what would you say was your gateway to reality TV, before Survivor, before pop stars, before Idol, was there something before that? I mean, it's a little early. There was nothing before Survivor. Well, there was the real world. But I don't think there was really a way to watch the real world in Canada, or if there was, it wasn't aware of it. Yeah. Were you a real world viewer? I proliferally remember watching or seeing it, but I was always in the holy grail of the Big Brother Survivor. Amazing race. Yes, with my parents, ANTM, I know, like that's kind of where I lived. And then there was the Canadian stuff that I also watched, like the pop star, and then I have to mention it because I'm here. I know. What? Search for the next VJ. Oh my God. Yes. How did you know I was going to say that? I could just tell. I could tell. Oh my God. I'm going to cry. That show was so good. Like you want to talk about peak Canadian television, reality television. I will never forget this scene from you, like you're my son, search for the next VJ. But it was my dream to be on Search for the next VJ. I was like, once I reach out age, I will try out, and I'm going to win Search for the next VJ. It was short lived, unfortunately. And I remember this scene where they had to interview a band. It was like a hour lady piece, something like that. And one of the female contestants was interviewing and had like a, the slightest hint of a flirt in a question, Tracy Melchor walked in and was like, you set women back 20 years with that interview. I have never forgotten it. And I do this day quote that all the time, you set women back 20 years. Tracy Melchor is a living legend. She's a living legend. And she has paved the way for all of us. She is an icon. I just have to always give her some upsets with her. But yeah, I remember watching Search for the next VJ, like there's a memory in my head of like a Christmas break. Is that called? I think it was Search for the next VJ search. I think it's called VJ search. I think you're mixing Search for the next Pussycat doll with the VJ thing. But it was the Tim Diggins, which was not a gay awakening, but I was awake. I was already awake, but boy was I out. Wow, Jane, can't use that. No, can't use that. And GJ. Yeah, so that was not like a gateway, but that was probably like a side dish that was happening at the same time of like survivor, real world, all of that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know, I mean, speaking to you, I'm interviewing you now as one of our survivor prodigies, when did you first fall in love with survivor? It was like episode three of season one, well, early because I lived and died by entertainment tonight. Honey, when Mary Hart was on TV, I was at the couch. I was listening. Her bangs were like this. The Bob was like this. Yeah, and I was listening. She's fierce. She meant business. She relates and shared. You should have your legs. I'm sure. Are we talking about them? I'm talking about them from one hour. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. The legs in the room, elephant, what's he called it? You just called me a day. Wow. Well, if you're listening, and you can't see them, I'm going to charts. Barely. Barely. You know, you sometimes you see like these gay websites that are advertising on Instagram, and it's like three inch in seam. That's what Jordan's wearing. Well, they're five inch. Not that we're comparing. Whatever, everybody's jealous of my legs. Okay, look. Great. And I'm just saying the reason it came up was because you shouldn't sure them. I shouldn't sure my legs. Me, Mary Hart, and Mariah Carey all have that in common immediately. So when I get my Gillette at, like, Jewel, that was, oh, yeah, Venus was Gillette Venus. Venus was a Venus, a subset of Gillette. Yeah. Because I had the soap on the, you know what, I can't get into that today. Oh, yeah. I can't get into that today. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm going about it. Oh, yeah. It was episode three. Mary Hart was watching the entertainment tonight. And I was like, everybody was going crazy about this show survivor. And really nobody knew what it was, right? And the pitch was, I am not joking. People don't remember this, but the way that the show was marketed was that 16 Americans are going to live on an island, and one will survive. Like it genuinely died. The marketing was like, all of these people except one are going to die. And the last one's standing will win a million dollars. And so people were like, what the hell are we doing? And so a lot of people were interested. They watched the first couple episodes. It became immediately clear. No one was going to die. Nobody died. But nobody died. Nobody died in Borneo, but it was a great show. So like the marketing worked out, people tuned in, and everybody was talking about it. This was like, got to catch this, and literally from the first episode of watch, I was like, oh my god, they're sending somebody home. There is, Mike White, I always said this, there's like a ritualistic death at the end of every episode. It's like, what more could you want from a reality TV show? Like somebody's going to vote off the island, right? Yeah. And so that was it. I was hooked. It was that time in the early 2000s, which we can probably remember now, which is like, so there's that show called American Family that I think aired in like the 80s or early 90s, which was like a experimental first reality, which is often considered the first reality show of its kind. And then in the early 2000s, we had the boom of the survivor Big Brother, Idol, and then at the same time, a few years later, newlywed, simple lives. Yeah. Hey Paula. I'm more in the line of the American Family show, which is just like flying a lot away or is up. And then you had housewives and et cetera. But what my point is, is like, to the point of your point of the marketing of the survivor point, is that we didn't have to be like that, we didn't know what we were watching. It was so thrilling and it was such a, I remember the change of people being scared of like scripted to reality where everyone who was such a TV the snob in a complimentary way was like, this is a demise of culture, whatever, and only for everything to coexist very happily now, for the most part. And scripted to be what-- - I'm last looking back, perhaps it was. - Well, I mean, we'll figure that out in about a hundred years. But yeah, I remember the early marketing for Big Brother was like almost scary to me. - Yeah. - It was like-- - Or Wellian, right? - Well, obviously-- - That was the point. - Yeah, but it was like, Big Brother's watching you, and Big Brother was Julie Chatton. That scares me. - The only thing worse than Big Brother watching you? - Annie, Julie Chatton. - But first. But everybody's in a house. - You famously doesn't watch Big Brother by the way. - Julie Chatton, no, she's never seen an episode. But she's gonna see this. She, I mean, it was marketed as like, wow, this is so new and so scary and so weird. I want to watch. - What could happen? - Yeah. - It felt like anything could happen. I mean-- - Sometimes anything did happen. - It became clear that the concept of survivor wasn't for people to die on an island, but you were like, but somebody could. - Yeah. - And there's that element of like, sick voyeurism. - 100%. Well, then that butt into Idol, which I think in it's being a sick voyeurism. - No, okay, hold on, I have, I have. I'm gonna tie the thread. I think season one and two of Idol, it was a standard competition show. Season three, we were doing things. It became reality. So before today, I was doing a bit of history, brushing up on my history, I wasn't doing history. I watched the episode where it was the results show. Jennifer Hudson, Latoya London, I believe, and Fantasia Burino were put in the bottom three. But how Ryan Seacrest put them in the bottom three was he would tell each person if they were in one group or the other group. - Right. - And then there was one person, I forgot their name, who had to pick which group he was safe, but had to pick the group he thought was in the bottom, and he picked the other group. And I think, and then it was revealed that Fantasia's group was the bottom three. So for about 18 minutes of that episode, they were playing a sick game with the contestants and the audience being like, we're now twisting it. Do you know any of me? - Yeah, well, I. - It wasn't just a common, sing-com dish anymore. - Yeah, I do remember it. And it felt like there was almost a game within a game of American Idol, where there was a separate competition happening to see. And Ryan Seacrest was competing against himself to see how long he could drag something out for. He was like feeling. - After the game. - Feeling time. And that was sort of like the peak of it, I feel like. - It was the peak of it, but also like that's. It's just, it was when reality was becoming like that episode so produced, and I think almost obviously in a bad way. Also, you put the three black female contestants in the bottom, like that was like a stain on American voting and also just like a crazy thing that was happening, but like, it was voyeuristic and like, oh, we're gonna really milk this for everything that we can. And Idol, I remember when I would watch it was like, yeah, I'm watching for the singers, but now I'm watching for like, results show should not exist. That's a five minute reveal. Results shows are five minutes, except for like a tribal council and survivor, I wanna watch that whole thing for the most part, even though tribal council's not worth it. - Not anymore, nothing's happening. - We've gone a bit off topic, but I wanna get back to it. Do you think, you might know this more than I do, but in the early days of reality TV, were you on like the message boards and not the water cooler because you were in high school, but like the Facebook groups of it all, do you know what I'm saying? I don't know what I'm saying. - I don't know what I'm saying. - Yes, I was. (laughing) - It wasn't. - I was on the message, I was lurking on the message boards, and this is like pre-read it, or at least pre-read it as far as I knew it, but there was this. - Is this the same time you were on the Olana's message boards? - Can we not talk about that? - Sorry, sorry, sorry, scratch that. - I'm like Jemma Collins, I'm not talking about that. (laughing) - There was a message board called Survivor Socks, and it was very famous because they were just like, roast the show, but it was like the biggest fans of the show, but they would roast the show, and they covered all other reality as well. And so I would lurk on there. I didn't fully understand the humor, but I was like, all into it. So yeah, I was like finding whatever I could online to further my- - I soon watched that episode, and then go on the message board. - Yeah, first I'd hit the official website, to make sure they put the X over the person's face. - What was that? - The official survivor website. - Oh, that they've now been- - They put the X. - Yeah, they put the X. - Got it. - And then I would hit Survivor Socks. - Do you think, like- - But you must have been on idle forms? - Yeah, I was on like idle forms. I was on, yeah, I was on a few forms. - You were running 'em. - Ah, honey. - Yeah, I was on idle forms, and I would be, I, this was at the early odds of Twitter, BB updates, Big Brother updates. - Oh my God. - That was my Bible. - I was Hamster Rodney. - Honey, I was refreshing. - I was on a Hamster watch. - When it was morning, noon, and night, you guys. - When it was a veto competition, I was in bed, just like this. - They would cut the fees. - But then they would come back from fees, and we had the live updates. Big Brother ruined my life, but in the best way. - Yeah, yeah. - I have to tell you, can we talk about Big Brother for a second? - Yeah, I'm good. - Can I just dive in there? - We have time. - We've got nothing but time. - Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. I.R. Radio, Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including I Heart Pride Canada, your favorite hits, and must have party bangers, proudly presented by the P.D.P. Pank Awards on November 5th. - Come together, celebrate, love. - Take pride with you, anytime, anywhere. - Loud and dry. - Just ask your smart speaker to play I Heart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone, or listen now at I HeartRadio.ca. - I'm like Ryan Seacrest right now. Just run 'em. - I don't wanna break. (both laughing) - I didn't watch Big Brother because it was such a survivor loyalist, and the thought of three episodes a week was a lot for me. - No, it's inhuman. - And so I started watching. My first season was Big Brother 6, Summer of Secrets. Janelle, Howie, Yvette, Maggie, the Friendship. - Life to the Friendship. - And get this. - So, talk about Star's Lining. I was in between, like, semesters at school. Unemployed. (both laughing) - Talk about Star's Lining by time. - And I'm watching Big Brother 6. And this isn't a season where everybody goes in with a secret partner. Remember Caser. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - All of 'em. - Well, 'cause they were, sorry. They were doing the twist throughout those years. So there was a twin twist. There was a twin twist. But this twist was that everybody was going in with a secret partner, but they all thought they were the only ones going in with a secret partner. Which lasts, like, three days before they all figure it out, right? - Yeah. - And so it doesn't matter. But I was so hooked. And I was, first I was on Hamster Watch, but I was like, "This isn't enough." And so I subscribe to Life Feeds with what money I don't know. I am not kidding. Morning, noon, and night. - Oh, 100%. - I would wake up, I would turn on the Life Feeds, and I would watch the shit out of those people all day long until I went to bed. - The thing with Big Brother, for people who don't watch it and don't understand, and it's very different than Survivor, in the way that, because it's happening in real time, you are obsessed with the live results. So much so that I would spoil myself and then watch the edit, obviously, because I wanted to see who was being racist and what was taken out. But also, like, you were just so involved in it. With Survivor, it's filmed six months before, or if not a year, or whatever. So it's a delayed viewing experience, but Big Brother, it's a sickness. - Well, and it feels like you're a part of it. What Big Brother does really successfully is create this community around the show. And I think they also started introducing fan votes, right? Where you could, remember America's player? - Oof, that was a low point for me. - Yeah, I actually don't like when we involved the audience at home, because usually, I'm always in line with the audience online. I don't know about the viewing audience. - I know, you can't trust the-- - Everybody on Twitter? We're always on the right side of Big Brother. - There is one takeaway from watching Big Brother. It's that you can't trust the general public. - Well, so you put this person back in the house? - No, literally. - And those people vote. - The Big Brother fans? - On, like, in elections. - Oh, in real life. - Well, we saw how that turned out twice. I mean, a few other times, too. Okay, do you think that in Speaking of Big Brother and Speaking of Survivor and Speaking of Idol, that that was a time of the lot, not a time. It was the last of our proper reality monoculture experience. I will say with a sidebar of, like, I feel personally, and we kind of discuss this a little bit earlier, but like, the traders is currently living that experience. - Yeah. - And I don't watch the show, but Live Island is also that experience for those people who watch that program. - Yeah, I think that that's true. I mean, like, the numbers that these shows were pulling in were absolutely insane. - There was like 40 million people watching a finale of Survivor. - 32. - 52, you better come. But like, whoa. (laughing) - 40. - Party. With receipts, whoa. - Come La Day. - Come La Day. - I wear shorts and it's best to listen after dark. Yes, it was a monoculture because so many people were watching it. It was like the friends and the sign fell and all that stuff. - Yeah. - It was a different era of TV. - Yeah. And then obviously those fandoms dwindle over time. People lose interest. - Well, Survivor now is what pulling in like live ratings is what, like $7 million, $7 million. - Not what we once did. - No, I think now with delayed is probably like $16 million or whatever. I don't know. - It's not great. - Yeah, but like the traders I find to be recapturing that same experience which when you're watching the traders, you're like for me at least what Drag Race used to be was like, I can't go online for like, I have to watch this right now. - Well, the genius of the traders is that via the casting they have been able to pull together all these disparate fandoms to come together to watch one thing. - But do not understand each other. - But don't understand each other at all. We've got housewives fans and survivor fans and big brother fans. - The thing is I'm all of those fans. I'm all of those. - The challenge. Well, I don't do that. But like, yeah, that's what I have a hard time with the traders sometimes is like, and I love my housewives fans, of course, but it's like, the gamers are ruining the show. And I'm like, it's a game. - I'm like, yeah, but that's the point. I was like, everyone was so mad at Danielle Reyes, but I was like, mama, that was a master classic in insane television, but like, wouldn't it work? - And there's like, there's a certain taste level that you have to have that you have to build up over years because when Danielle Reyes was first on Big Brother, we didn't know that we actually love villains, right? Like this goes back to our villain episode where we didn't know the power that those people bring, the value that those people bring to a show. And over the course of two decades, we have come to understand the importance of that. And so when we see someone like Danielle Reyes on the traders acting the way that she did, yes, you can be annoyed by her or whatever, think it's stupid, but like, don't say you were not, you have to respect it 100% I agree completely. I think there's like, and some people haven't gone through that journey, that two decade long journey. - Well, you're combining fandoms, which I think is the craziest thing to me, it's because it's like, now I have to be introduced to someone from Love Island. And I'm like, well, that's where I'm like, well, I don't want those people there, but then you go to love them. - Well, then I meet someone like, Mara, and I was like, love for what a queen. She's so funny. What a great personality. - Personality. - I like her, I like the hats and the wigs. I mean, I stop watching when Candace left. Okay. - Okay, well, we were talking about America's favorite player on Big Brother and audience voting and the ways that the audience can get involved. What are some examples of times the audience got it wrong? And I know you're going to bring it back to American Idol, and I'm hoping you do. - Oh. - Because I made my memory jogged a little bit. - We had wrong winners. We had like, don't say Taylor Hicks again. - I was going to say, but that's like an obvious answer, I think, like, you know. - Okay, well, what about the Adam Lambert chrysalon moment? - I thought that a chrysalon one, which I thought, you know, it's a cliche statement, but Idol got into the white guys with a guitarist era for like 40 seasons in a row, and that's when I stopped watching, I think probably, it wasn't that season, it was a David season. - The David's. - The David. - The David. - Yeah. Yeah, not the David and Goliath. - No. - Survivor season. - It's a different show. - My boyfriend once asked me, how do they find so many people named David and so many people named Goliath? And I said, let's-- - Wait till he finds out about heroes versus hustlers versus healers. I was like, I'm not taking that out. Yeah. - I thought that I wanted chrysalon to win. - I loved chrysalon. - Chrysalon was great. - That cover of "To Make You Feel My Love." - So good. Also, David cooks cover of always-- - Always be my baby. - Where Mariah Carey said, that would be great on a movie soundtrack, I believe. And I was like, Mariah loved it, I loved it. - Yeah. - She looked amazing in that season. I just was like, you know, it was a weird time. We were never getting-- we got so far from a female winner for like so long. I was like, okay, this is what we're doing. I think I don't got a lot wrong maybe in terms of like how far people want too far. Like Diana DeGarmo, I was such a fan of. But when you look at the final two being Fantasia and Diana DeGarmo, it's really just a crazy thing in the world. - Was Diana DeGarmo the one that just kept doing over the rainbow? - No. She did don't cry out loud. Do you remember that? - No. - Tocro? - Can't use that. Thank you. - Singer. - Yeah. - Wait, who was the woman that kept doing over the rainbow? - Tocro McFee. - No. - Yeah. She sat down on the floor. Do you remember? - No. - Anyways, it doesn't matter. - Carly, Smith? - No. - Okay, maybe. - Remember Carly Smith? - Yeah. - Yeah. - I was obsessed with her. Do we want to talk about some big moments that were definitive of the genre? - Yeah. Well, I have to mention the whole Simon Cowell universe because we're on Idol. Because of course, the stuff that has carried over, right? Like the British stuff that has carried over, and you know, I'm in a bit of an angle file. So of course, Susan Boyle. - Oh, yes. - How Susan Boyle, like how something from a British TV show goes international is so crazy, especially because it was sort of like the early days of the early viral. - It was early viral, yeah. - 100%. - And it got to a point where-- - Well, it was like Sanjaya on Idol, which was like-- - Yeah. - It went as far as Canada, but that's international. I think it was early viral, but only viral, but via Mary Hart on Entertainment tonight. Do you know what I mean? Like it made it to Morning News. - Yeah. - It was on the radio. - Yeah. - The crazy thing about Susan Boyle, though, was it was like, you guys are never going to believe what this ugly woman sounds like. - Yeah. - Like that was the guy-- - That's the thesis. - That was the thesis of the clip. - Like boy, lover voice. - Yeah. - You don't get a look at her. Well, now she's like fierce. - This is crazy when she's doing it with Cornetta. - I'm obsessed. Just walking around with a fur coat and a crazy bob. - It's absolutely insane. It's like, if you just glanced, it could be Madonna. - I got something I want to talk about. She was X-Factor, right? - She was Britain's Got Talent. - Oh, sorry. - Currency. - Yeah. I never got into that except for when our American pop stars would go perform there. - Yeah. - I've never seen anything beyond Susan Boyle and Pudsy the dog. - Yeah. Who was the judges on Britain's Got Talent? Simon Cowell. - Simon Cowell. - Kelly Rowland. - No, she was X-Factor. - No. - No, it was people like a man with a thing. - Chericle. - No, that was X-Factor. It was like-- - I don't know. - Nobody. Nobody want to know. But there was X-Factor, and I was a big X-Factor fan. But that's where you get one direction, Lyona Lewis, Alexandra Burke. - Nicole Scherzinger taking the mic. - Chair Lloyd. - Chair Lloyd. - So many moments. - Yeah. - And Nicole Scherzinger goes, "This was the moment that I was like, 'Oh, there's more to Nicole Scherzinger than the Pussycat dolls. Because she shows up on the X-Factor UK judging panel, which is a very illustrious place to be." It has a history that is story. It has made and broken careers being on the X-Factor judging panel. I am not joking. - You laugh. - Who's careers has they broken? - Louis Walsh. - Oh. - Oh, I don't know. - Is he with us? - I think. - Okay. - But he's just a joke. He's just a joke. And anyways-- - Susan Boyle, ugly. Louis Walsh, joke. - He is a joke. - He is a joke. - He's a joke. - And so Nicole Scherzinger shows up at this thing, and you're like, "She's not going to care. She's from the Pussycat dolls." She doesn't-- - No, but she took it so seriously. - It's rude herself into that role. - Wow, she's never letting anybody forget that she formed one direction. - Was she involved in that? - So it's, it's Nicole Scherzinger did, Nicole Scherzinger did one direction, Kelly Rollin did little mix. - No, Nicole wasn't on it as early as one direction. - So because she wasn't a permanent judge at that point. - Yeah, I think you're right. - It was Cheryl Cole, Danogue. - I think we had Louis Walsh in time. - Dan and the Nogue. - I didn't watch X-Factor U.S. I only watched to watch Chloe Kardashian and Mario Lopez go host, and that's the early odds of us. - Yeah. - I'm Chloe, you're Mario. - Okay, there was an audition on the X-Factor U.S. when Brittany was a judge, and it was a guy that she had duetted with on her first album. I think it's, I'll never stop loving you or I'll still love you. - We don't know. - Don't know, don't care. - Not an information podcast. - But he, not educational, nobody comes here for education. They certainly don't come for our voices. And so he auditions, and it's not a great audition, and she says no, and she is so uncomfortable having saying no to him, because he's like, I don't, you remember me? It's me. - Oh, I remember that. It was the guy who actually did the duet. - That's what I'm saying. - Yeah, sorry. I thought, because I was like, I have no Britney Spears lore. She did not get up to do a duet with somebody on X-Factor, no, no, no, no. But she did sing Happy Birthday, tell they read. - Hmm. - Do you remember that? - Yes. I remember that 500 times, because everyone's reactions are different. Demi's like so excited to hear Britney sing. Britney singing in her like real voice, which I'm obsessed with. So we're like it's low and then LA read is like shocked. She's bringing a cake and then shocked its life He's like, oh, oh And it's incredible. I love when she sings happy birthday. It's like a little ants singing happy birthday She's like good morning LA read For the first time in the Castro district. Okay American Idol iconic moments obviously Kelly Clarkson winning. I'm not gonna read you know every week I'm talking about that lady. It's non-stop. We've heard it. It's non-stop William Hungs audition. I think we will look back on that as like a humiliation ritual. I bought the album his I bought the album. What? Yeah That's crazy. I know and I would listen to it So you bought it and you listen to it. Thank God like we just in I was old. We thought that was so It was like the height of comedy William Hungs. So it was a comedy album. It was it's definitely a comedy I don't know we have Fantasia's rise. I mean Fantasia had an iconic win. I mean you're at the time you're first for I'll guess I'll guess I'll count her carry your first four idol winners were really iconic was Ruben Stutter At the time like the velveteady bear of it all. Yeah, he was everywhere and then you had Clay Aiken She's currently back with that hair Adam Lambert controversy a cave just being a gay man Yeah, well, well, don't we know it the thing is like Adam Lambert losing is the best thing that happened to Adam Lambert's career Yeah, I think he like sword past Chris Allen. Yeah, and then he had that controversial kiss at like the AMAs or whatever the Billboard Music Awards That was Brittany Amadonna I'm aware of that one. He also kissed somebody swear to God I want to talk about that Brittany do it again Okay, I'm this list is also wait every missing something from idol that was iconic Well Paula who was that who's that girl that came in with that blonde hair She's like carry on to it. No, no, it's a bad audition and she's wearing like a Striped it was a bad audition. I'm so she was wearing a red Striped like and people do impressions of her all the time where she's like what she says she's like Yeah I Tell us about it. You know it is. I don't know who they go on the show. It was Carmen Raspussen No, it's a bad audition. It's one of the iconic bad auditions like William hung. Oh, I don't You know her She got scary Mary. Is that her name scary Mary? I don't know this Things are falling on deaf ears today. God. Okay. Project runway is on our list as well for iconic moments I'm gonna say I'm not familiar with that show quite frankly I wish it well But dinner at Kushner's I am familiar with because I'm on Twitter. I did watch season one. I remember Does that the one no Christian Seriano won that show didn't he? Yes I watched that season and I think one other season But then it went away and then all of a sudden the dinner with the Kushner's moment happened it was so massive Which is who is that Carly Carly class Taylor Swift's friend I I don't know Where was she on the night of the Madison Square Garden event she was there With supporting her with the Kushner's while I'm sure they were there too uh Yeah, but it just that moment emerged on the internet for me and I was like project runway Well, it comes background every few months and I'm like that really is like the gag of the century He got her together so quick and she was like oh Yeah, and that you don't expect that kind of stuff from that show now But now with the reboot and you have law roach and tyra banks Beside each other In the same room law great tyra The thing is we can't do tyra now anymore because a and tm let's get there A and tm gave us so many iconic moments literally front to back everything is iconic Bad and good it's iconic whether you like it or not but tyra's Meanness or Janice Dickinson being mean and whatever we can't do that anymore So putting tyra on a judging panel doesn't make sense to me now. Yeah, but I do think there's we're getting a different I think there's something in the air and I think the world is ready for a little bit of mean again Oh, I absolutely don't I mean and so like but I don't know The thing is like tyra's not going into that room being like I'm gonna be mean But I think she can't help herself. Oh, yes. I think you don't know. It just comes to her naturally It's gonna come out and then we have from a and tm Obviously we have Tiffany versus tyra which is painted very sadly in the documentary Because I mean I think in the documentary they're like tyra was screaming for 12 hours it went on for days Yeah, we were stuck at that studio. They locked the door. She was crying. Yeah, but What a moment. Yeah, my favorite moment from anti-amis I just don't want to be here anymore I learned a lot from that show. It learned me how to learn to learn to do real good English too Tommy had a smile Tommy had a walk in heels Miss J. Tommy, I actually this is like miss J today. It's so miss J. I do like a bow. Oh, you need to see how you need a pussy bow every time you leave And that's all that taught me actually. Yeah. I will. Okay. Let me talk about survivor for a second if you haven't it How much time do you have? I'll just put these down. No, but there's there's a couple of really iconic moments in survivor history And it's hard to sum up in 50 years, but like do it do you want to talk about sous-hawks speech because I don't think I think reality TV changed Would have gone down a different road if not for sous-hawks speech in the finale of season one the snakes and rats speech and the Yeah, I know you love a glass of water and if I saw you lying on the side of the road dying there I haven't watched that in so long. I would give you a glass of water. It's so good It's so good. It sends chills down my spine sometimes when I was pre-meditated, right? Um like a little it was like she worked out. I like to imagine her like at the hotel Papers crumpled all over the floor Just like sharpied down her entire forum That got it, but yeah, it was a little bit pre-meditated because I think that uh another contestant shan had said that she had run it by him Oh, she's like hey, and he was like sounds good to me It's like I'm gonna do something really crazy tonight She was she went to the president of Disney and said look I'm gonna make history and that's what she did and that's what she did Wait, what do you do at pre-drinks you were saying something? Oh at pre-drinks. I'll put on my favorite final tribal council speeches It's a shame we don't hang out more. I know Because you've got that You've got some really great ones from later like I don't know if you got as far as uh, I believe it was carrot mowin Fans versus favorites where somebody lost their teeth during the season. Do you know this story? So this woman goes swimming she loses her dentures because she had like three missing teeth in the bottom From by the way an attack should have been mugged on the street. Yeah, laugh it up laugh it up Buddy on the wrong side of history again Um, and so no, but it doesn't it actually is hilarious Not that the way it plays out so she goes swimming she loses her teeth screaming bloody murder This beautiful goddess the most beautiful woman to has ever appeared on television her name is Brenda Run star and it's like dawn what's wrong? And she's like I've lost my teeth. I have to quit the show. I don't want to be on camera Literally, she's like this is important. I'm just like I don't want to be on camera without my teeth Dawn dives into this muddy pool of water Retrieves the teeth in her teeth in her teeth and then they kiss and put it back So she gives it back to her and Dawn is like I will like I I owe you my life Brenda What does Dawn do? She turns around and votes Brenda off a few rounds late. How many you gotta do? Brenda comes in with this axe to grind and it's like stunning to see Anyway, she says to her she says to her you said you wouldn't vote me out you said you you said I have your life in this game in my hands Dawn so Take your teeth out if you wouldn't have quit Take your teeth out and she and they go back and forth and finally Dawn takes out teeth out and goes like this And it's so iconic to me Um, and it's it's a little dark-sided, but it's so iconic. I mean, I think that's when survivors at its best where it gets a little It's dark. It's a little morally gray. You know that meme of the woman going it makes me want to spit Is it a survivor? Who is that? Oh? Yeah, what is that? What is that? I'm so mad I could spit. It makes me want to spit Does sound like survivor. We'll get back to it pride is like love. You feel it in your heart I already know Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts including I heard pride Canada your favorite hits and must have party banger is proudly presented by the pdp Pink Awards on November 5th come together celebrate love take pride with you anytime anywhere Just ask your smart speaker to play it. I heard pride Canada stream us on your phone or listen now at iherradio.ca We can't talk about iconic moments from survivor without talking about the black widow brigade I would love to talk about the Black Widow Brigade. - Tell us. - Which is, so it's like fans versus favorites, half-returning, half-newbies. And you get these really random girls returning. Parvity shallow, nobody, no, swear to God, nobody remembered who she was. - Amanda Kimmel was like, okay, these are my favorites, like these are nobodies. These women step into a role of power never before seen. And Parvity is the one who puts together this group of women, the Black Widow Brigade. And they're some of the fans, some of the favorites. And they start to lure the men in, get close to them, flirt with them, and then blinds hide them. And it's like one after another, after another, and none of them sees it coming, until they wind up with this one man left, they can't beat him, wins immunity. And it's like, once you've got the immunity necklace around your neck, you can't be voted out. And they're, and all credit to Sury. - Sury's like, what if we convinced him to give it up? - And they do. - She's not even on camera. She's like behind the camera, because it's on, I think. - It's on, like, Natalie and Amanda. - Yeah, and Sury's just like, almost like, un-miked, and he just, here we go. - Why don't we just go out and give it up? And they're like, he would, nobody's that snapper. - And they're like, oh, well, let's just try. There's nothing else to do. And then he gives it up, and they all vote him out, and it's iconic. The greatest thing you've ever seen. - It's a back image of these four women laughing. - But that? - For what we asked, literally, everybody had tribal. And also, like, the jury who's supposed to be silent is like, oh, I can't believe you did that. It's when survivors add its best, which is like, there's all those other moments, but when the game is so good, you're like, that was flawless. It was a flawless execution of something nobody would ever do. I've never understood somebody going on those fucking shows, and giving away their veto, their idol. Why would you never use it on yourself? Never always use it on yourself if you have it. - Well, it begs the question. - Or don't give it to somebody else. - It begs the question. What makes a great reality TV contestant? Like, what makes a reality star? Because there's so many people who are staples of reality TV, like Tiffany Paul or New York. - Yes. - Parvati Shallow, name others. - Janal. - Durinda. - Rachel. Durinda Reagan, who fights with Rachel in that iconic big brother fight. - But there's so many big bitch because you're gay. - That they almost like make a career out of it, right? - Well, we're in a different world now, where people have a lot of issues with reality TV, where people go on in any format of the genre. And because we live in 2026, it's way more calculated. There's a social plan, there's an influencer plan, we're all there to become famous, where 25 years ago, no one was going on to survive it to become famous. That was not even thought close to your head. It was, wait, I wanna do this cool experience. I wanna do this, I wanna win the money. Winning the money was always the goal. Now it's like, fuck the money. It's the career that comes with it. So to your point, we then give careers to, we had actors, singers, whatever. And now we have great reality stars. Where we have a poverty, we have a Durinda, I mean, two or two, our two gods. And it's like, yeah, you were born to do this. Where was my life before Durinda Medley? I don't really know. - Yeah, yeah. What makes a great reality star? I think it takes somebody who does not care about the camera. I take somebody who doesn't give a shit. It's someone who ignores everything from a production standpoint. And to quote Big Brother Canada, you want good TV? You want good fucking TV? I'll give you good TV. But not in an aware sense. - That's the thing, that's the thing. So I think that that's the key ingredient that a lot of people mess is that you have to be like a little bit unself aware. - Yeah. - To be a great reality TV contestant. You have to be a little bit unaware of how you might come off to the audience or don't care. - If you were to be on a reality show, obviously you'd love to survive her. - Yeah, wouldn't do it though. - Okay, because I would love to be on Big Brother, but like the idea of being in a house for four months without my phone or without TV, really without TV would scare me. - I don't know, people seem to do it. The people seem to adjust for that. - Are you well after? - I don't know how. - Are you well? - None of them seem well after me. - No one's well. - Well, Big Brother Canada's coming back. - It is. - And I'm very excited for it. - Why are you auditioning for this camera here? - I'm Jordan, I'm 30, and I'm gay. (laughing) I think, well, Big Brother Canada's incredible and I'm so excited it's coming back. It's some of our great, great Canadian TV. - Well, this is the thing is like American Big Brother fans look to Big Brother Canada as sort of like what Big Brother could be. - Give me a drink, don't even give me a drink. And I go off about how good Big Brother Canada is and how fucking good Drag Race Canada is. Or Canada's Drag Race. It's, those are shows still doing that format and that show as it was happening in the best of the early seasons of the US comparisons. So like early Big Brother is often lauded as the bass of that show famously seasons two to like seven, eight, early Drag Race two to like seven, eight, and then also two. But like Big Brother Canada and Canada's Drag Race really get the show. They make, they make great TV. It's smart, it's entertaining, it's competitive more than anything else. We're not losing that part. We're Big Brother and maybe feel this way about Survivor a little bit. The competition part has lost itself and the production part has overplayed its hand. - Yeah, I always say now it's like, well, this has nothing to do with what you're saying. - What do you always say? - I'm always saying that now it's- - It's a great time to watch hook. - No, it's a great time to watch hook. But the thing about where reality TV is at now, particularly Survivor I feel, probably the same about Big Brother, is that they used to be a show's about a game, it used to be a show's about people playing a game. - Yeah. - They used to be a show about people playing a game. - And now it's about- - And now it's a show about the game that people are playing. - Wow. Now it's a show about a game that people are playing. A game that people are playing. - Well yeah, it's like- - That's how Oprah would say that. (laughing) - And it's like, you get the playbook and it's like- Well also we've watched so much TV and people going on the show now are like 30 or whatever and you grew up with the show, like yeah, if you put someone who's watched Big Brother for forever, the Big Brother Superfan, they're gonna play a very different game than like the 55 year old mom, who's like, I'm looking to get away from my kids for this summer. - Exactly, yeah, exactly. Or like, remember April and BB Six, where she was like, all she wanted was a Kmart sponsorship. (laughing) - She was like, maybe if I say Kmart enough on the show, I'll become a spokesperson. - Oh God, my dream. (laughing) - But you know what, I'll always love Big Brother Canada for bringing Nikki Graham over from the UK. Nikki Graham who's famously was, I don't know if you've ever seen the clips of her on B. You have, if you're not familiar with her, may she rest in peace? She died recently of anorexia, it's really sad, but she was like such an iconic reality TV contestant and they brought her onto Big Brother Canada. And she's famous for this clip on BB UK, where she went. - Who is she, who is she? - Essentially some clips like that. - Well, UK reality is so different. Like, we can't get into that right now, but like, also Big Brother UK. - Big Brother UK, I'm not a big brother. - Big Brother, I live and die in the UK. - Okay, so there are some iconic shows from the early 2000s that are competition-based. That live in our hearts forever, but they never really came back. Some of those shows include, but are not limited to, Pussycat dolls present the search for the next doll. - That was such a good show. - Followed by girlicious. - So, but wait, I have a question. - Yeah, so is girlicious a show, or girlicious came out of search for the next doll? - There was search for the next doll, so they were adding a doll to the group. - Yeah. - But they also never added the doll to the group, right? - Yes, I think. - And she never got in. - No, and then there was, they made it, it was like making the band, so then they made girlicious. And when you talk about girlicious, it's like what I said about Lady Gaga and Justin. It's like, girlicious to me was a Canadian girl. - Totally, yeah. It's girlicious, sugar tones, and velvet empire. - That's my holy Trinity. - Yeah. - You want the stupid shit? Oh my God, soul decision. - Soul decision, he was so hot. - Girllicious is really like, when it's getting into the, I would say the crazy hours of gay guy music video night, but I've known people to put it on it, like 9 p.m. when people are walking through the door, I like stupid shit is playing. I'm chewing up Don's teeth. (laughing) - Okay, there was a shot of love with Tila Tequila, who we will not really take a deep dive into. - We don't need to talk about her. - But these were, and then for your factor, which? - For your factor came back. For your factor back. - Yeah. - Isn't it hosted by Johnny Knox? - Your factor back now. - Yeah, hosted by Johnny Knoxville. - I don't know who it's hosted, but it's got to be better than Alaska. - These shows listed here are like, Jordan Poltergeist in front of the TV, from like, after dinner till I went to bed. Well you know what the other one for me? was I was obsessed with the mole, the original mole. It's back on Netflix, but the mole hosted by Anderson Luther. - That went to the camera. - Yeah. - Oh my god. - 'Cause that was like giving me like big brother style TV. - Yeah. - And it was scary. - And it was kind of like amazing race, but there was a mystery to solve for the audience, 'cause you didn't know who the mole was. And that, I'm sort of spoiler alert, but when Catherine walks into the Coliseum, I don't remember. - I don't remember. - I don't remember. - I was using one to reveal herself as the mole. I remember where I was, what I was drinking, what I was eating in my living room at all. (laughing) - What were you drinking? - That's a Pepsi. - That's a Pepsi. - Pepsi's Pepsi. - Okay. - And so it's moments like that at the end of the mole, where you're just like, that has lived with me for my entire life, I'll never forget it. And it creates this iconography around the mole where 20 years later, Netflix can reboot it, and everybody's excited to watch it. - Based on, what was the original run of the mole? It was like three seasons. - Two seasons. - It was like a celebrity, and then we really came back for a minute, but we're out of it. - Yeah. Well, reality has had this extended shelf life because of YouTube, and now TikTok, obviously, where these, like I just was, I'm being fed big brother compilations on TikTok right now, and I'm like, funny, funny. I can't like, like, like, good, good. I'm like, I would put all of these on to just watch. Like, I will watch the Rachel Riley Reagan, big brother fight every day, if I could, and I have. You know, she walks into the door. Hi, did you guys miss me? And everybody's automatically upset. And you know production was like, Rachel, when you get back in there because they opened Pandora's box. She was the curse that was put back into the house for 24 hours. They said, okay, Rachel, cause a shit storm. And she does. But, imagine being the shit storm. Okay, like, I am Rachel in that moment cause like, she's so funny. Like, like, how she's doing that moment, but then Reagan, we have never seen like, girl versus gay on TV like that before because he ate her up with every single response. And that's representation, cause that's happening. That's happening out on the streets daily. But you'll get it on TV. And I love Rachel. And this is, I don't think it's homophobic. Well, maybe it is. She's like, are you a big bitch because you're gay, Reagan? And Reagan's like, without missing a beat. No, Rachel, I'm not a big bitch because I'm gay. I'm a big bitch because if you walk into the house with a modicum of respect and he eats her up, it's so good. And then he calls her Ray Trist as well, which is a play on her name and her position. Okay, so these moments like that, moments like survivor, moments like everything else we've mentioned for the last four hours have extended the life of the genre. Like, why does this genre continue to entertain us? Like, why are we still here fawning over these moments? At the end of the day, like Jenn, it's the sounds corny, but at the end of the day, we're genuinely so interested in human beings and how they react to bizarre situations, right? Like, yeah. And how they work with one another, backstab one another, and like literally these formats have run for 26 years plus now because you get something different every time you do it. - Yeah. Do you think as a survivor of Fishingado in 2026, have we had a wall? - We've had a wall, but it's not because the format is tired or anything like that. We've had a wall because the casting is horrible. And the host is holding us back. - Oh, let's just, let's say it. - The host is holding us back. - I said it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't say his name, but. - Oh, yeah. - It's like Bloody Mary. - It's like Voldemort. - Jordan, let's wrap this up, but before we go, I want to know who's in your reality hall of fame? For people, who's on Mount Rushmore. - For? - I can't do that. Okay. (laughing) - Parvati, Janelle, Sandra. - Oh, you're just doing survivors. - Oh, no, Janelle's a big brother. - You're being famously. - You're doing traitors, contestants. - Yeah. Rachel Kelly Clarkson, Durinda Medley, Lucidrada. - Nini Leaks, Theresa Didier. - These aren't reality competitions. - Ah, look at her. (laughing) - It's an impossible question to ask and both answer. I think it's like sometimes it's like, someone actually phrased it really well. To me recently, my friend Tommy, it was who are your top four and who are the top four? So like my personal Mount Rushmore of like housewives is very different than who I would actually be the Mount Rushmore, do you know what I mean? So who's your survivor Mount Rushmore? - Well, your personal one. - Yeah, so it's Brenda, Don, Don with Teeth, Don without Teeth. (laughing) - Afographic here. (laughing) - My survivor Mount Rushmore, my personal Mount Rushmore, because yes, it is different from the officially sanctioned one. It would be yes, Parvati, Sandra, Amanda Kimmel. - Yes. - Ah, queen. - Queen, queen, queen. - It's Queendom. - Yeah. - Yeah, I agree. I mean, I feel like, unless you're talking to like a straight person, that would be like everybody's same answer. - I know, I know. - You know what I mean? 'Cause like who's putting like a guy on their Mount Rushmore? - No, never. - Not me. - Never. - No man. And that really sums up today. - It's been a joy. - This has been real, like reality. - It's been just like that. Next door, bro. (upbeat music) Brutani. - Okay, great. - Don't be talking so much. - That was good, though. - Right, I'm off. - And she like smashed the door open with one fell swoop. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Pride is like love. I.R. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including I.R. Pride, Canada. Your favorite hits and must have party bangers, proudly presented by the P.D.P. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. (upbeat music) Just ask your smart speaker to play I.R. Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at I.R. Radio.ca.