The Global Story: Dave Ramsey - Iran, tariffs and affordability

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Hi there, it's Tristan Redmond, host of the Global Story Podcast from the BBC. The show where we tell one in-depth story each week day from Weather World in America Meet, and we've got a banging bonus episode for you. Affordability is the buzz word in the upcoming US midterm elections, but we've spoken with the financial guru Dave Ramsey, who says we all have more control than we think. Can politicians and world events really impact our finances? Or is it all down to us? Enjoy the show. The economy right now is tough, but is the US midterm's bear down on us? Can politicians do anything about it? On today's episode, we sit down with Dave Ramsey, the famous American financial guru, and he tells us it's not on politicians, it's on us. If you elect a congressman because you think the congressman is going to change your life, you're a fool. Millions of Americans listen to Dave Ramsey's show for financial advice, and if you've never heard him before, let me give you the vibe. It's a cool intro. So I'm getting ready to destroy your life, as you know it. Dave's whole brand is tough love, and if you're one of the callers, maybe you don't always enjoy it. You're not going to spend any money on anything ever for the next three years. On the calls, Dave's sometimes exasperated, especially when the callers have debt, and especially if it's student debt, for something like, say, a history degree. It's a single mom trying to feed three kids and half of her debt is for a history degree. Full disclosure here, they're going to go $60,000, $80,000, $120,000, $140,000 in debt to get a history degree. I have a history degree, not against history degrees. So maybe it's appropriate that I sat there with Dave to hear his take. From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redmond in London, and today on the global story, how could the cost of living crisis affect the elections? And why Dave Ramsey says politicians can't save you, only you can. Dave Ramsey, fantastic to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us from Nashville, Tennessee. Well, I'm honored, Tristan, good to hang out with you for a little bit. Could you introduce yourself, please, Dave, for the few listeners in the United States, who don't already know you, but also for our listeners around the world, who may not be so familiar? I'm Dave Ramsey. I run a company called Ramsey Solutions, and we do podcasting and publishing. Well, it's great to have you with us. So you have this podcast, Dave, where you speak to people about their financial questions, their worries, their concerns, and listening to your show, it strikes me that you're maybe more plugged into the financial concerns of Americans, almost than anyone else I can think of. Is that a fair assessment? Well, we have the honor of speaking to about 30 million a week between podcast and YouTube and talk radio, and certainly they're calling in. It's a call-in format, and so we're talking to the typical American, not necessarily a lot of financial shows are aimed at rich people, or not, or aimed at regular folks. And so we've got our finger pretty well on the pulse. We get to hear a lot. Some of it's kind of crazy, and some of it's kind of sad, and some of it's really fun. Well, regular folks, as you say, all around the world, not just the United States, are preoccupied right now and have been for a little while with the question of the cost of living and affordability. So many of these concerns, Dave, are tethered to things which are beyond our control. So stuff like, you know, the stock market tariffs, global foreign policy, wars, and conflicts. When did you first notice, Dave, that the cost of living and the price of things was becoming a major concern for Americans? Probably in 1982. Oh wow, I wasn't expecting you to say that. Well, interest rates were 17% in those days, and we were just coming out of the Jimmy Carter years, and we had double digit inflation, and moving into the Ronald Reagan years, in terms of who was in the White House. And so the point of that little snide comment is simply that there's always been problems. There's always been obstacles. There's always been challenges, and there's always been opportunities. Just to set the table for the rest of this conversation, how would you describe your credo about how to react to financial crises? What would it boil down to for you in a sentence? You have to control the controllables. The things you can control. I cannot control the straight of our muse. Actually, nothing. I can sit and worry about it till 2 a.m. I can't control it. And so I've got to control what I can control, and that's setting up my investments, because if there's not a straight of a muse this month, there's going to be one in eight months. There's going to be one in 14 months. The market has always reacted to global events. And so you've got to be in a situation where your personal debts are gone. You've got some cash position. You've got a good income coming in, and you're investing for the long haul, not for the short term panic, in whichever talking head calls something a crisis this week. What qualifies you to give that advice to people? Why should they trust you? They probably shouldn't, but a lot of them have, and it's worked out. The main thing that qualifies me these days is that we've led some 10 or 15 million people out of debt over the years with our classes, books, and podcasts, and into wealth. And we've shown more people how to get out of debt and build wealth than any other brand in America today. And it's over many, many decades. It's not just over the last 10 months or 10 weeks or something. But the background is kind of ridiculous. I started in the real estate business after getting a degree in finance, and I started buying and selling houses in my 20s. And I got rich starting a poor red neck hillbilly kid. I ended up with $4 million worth of real estate, and a million dollar net worth, and in 1983 was making $250,000 a year, $20,000 a month. But I borrowed too much money, the banks that we were dealing with got sold to other banks, and they called our notes. And the sad story was, we spent the next two and a half years of our life losing everything we owned. We were sued and foreclosed on, and finally, with a brand new baby, a toddler in our marriage hanging on by a thread, we were bankrupt, and we got to start over. And so I have a PhD in the UMB. I've done stupid with zeros on the end. I can recognize stupid from miles away, because I did it myself. And that gives me a unique ability to call something stupid and not be offensive most of the time. And it also gives me the ability to hurt with someone that's hurting and be scared with someone who's scared. And so we meet people where they are, and a lot of them are broken and broke and scared and don't know what to do. Their next step is, and their next step really doesn't have anything to do with a straight-of-arm use. It's got to do with their own personal budgets. I have to confess, when I listen to your show, I feel a bit stressed, Dave. I feel a bit like I am being presented with a shopping list of things that I haven't done, and I feel quite anxious. Why do you think so many people gravitate towards listening to you? Have you ever heard anyone else saying that they feel stressed listening to your show? Oh, all the time. Just read the hate comments after the YouTube post, of course they do. Why do they still listen in that case, Dave? I think they realize that I actually want what's best for them. And so our listeners, when I finish talking to them, my life is not different. But if I did a good job, I can help them move to a different level than they were before. Sometimes more lovingly, sometimes more direct, depending on how the call shakes out and how the person is approaching it. As an example, my boyfriend is receiving a pretty large settlement in the next coming month. If someone is calling up to ask to do something that we tell you not to do, I'm wondering if it's better to do a big dump payment and get a mortgage on the house. Why do you want a mortgage? I don't know and they know that we just laugh with them and go guys you knew when you called here We weren't gonna tell you to do that. I'm not I'm not sure. Well, you just told me you wanted a Morgan We turn up the heat as the call goes on. Well, let me send him a warning through you And you're not gonna like this and it gets more stressful. There is no we you're not married Exactly it's his money, but it can it can end oftentimes with compassion and loving Situations if someone's in a bad situation. I'll walk with them But I'm not going to endorse their stupidity so they feel better to some of you listeners and viewers think that you'll mean. Oh definitely Definitely is that what they need from you? No, no, that's not what they that's how they feel and I can't control that That's not my job my job is to make sure I help them Let's zoom out a little bit Dave because it'd be great to understand From your perspective where this moment fits into more recent Financial crises that we've seen over the last couple of decades. Let's start with the dot-com bubble burst In 2000. Where were you when that happened and how did it play out Dave? Hmm Well, we were on the air doing the show That one scared people because it scared them about their future their 401k's their retirement plans invested in good mutual funds Took a serious nose dive. I'll probably down about 25% probably about 40% What do you think about that? Not happy with it at all The dot-coms were all a Emerging-market tech startups and they crashed like left and right and thus the bubble crashed we run through the money that we got and Times are times are not looking up right now. It's very sad. It's like being at a An ongoing funeral that never ends until the auction comes and we had people not making a profit companies not making a profit and their stocks going through the roof and Some of those went away. So it was mostly centered on I lost a bunch of value in my retirement if I was a very high risk-taker In terms of the shock waves of that crisis. Is it more serious in your view than where we are now? No, no Well, where we are now there's not really a shock wave from what we've got now 2008 and the pandemic were the two with the highest by far shock waves Through the all the way through the consumer household to call where we currently are a crisis is I think that's silly Well, I'm glad you raised those two because the the GFC the global financial crisis of 2008 and the pandemic Those are the two I wanted to run through with you when it comes to 2008. Did you see that one coming Dave? No No, I did not and honestly I didn't think it was going to go as deep as it did It went deeper and went deeper than I thought it would we've seen triple digit swings in the stock market Major financial institutions have teetered on the edge of collapse and some have failed As uncertainty has grown many banks have restricted lending Credit markets have frozen and families and businesses have found it harder to borrow money We're in the midst of a serious financial crisis Well, the 2008 crisis there's a potentially an interesting parallel with the situation the United States finds itself in in the moment And that's the fact that in 2008 the US was was embroiled in two long term conflicts one in Iraq the other one in Afghanistan if you fast forward to now are you concerned that the US involvement in Iran could keep Exasivating the economic situation. No, because I don't think it's working at that bad now Even though gas prices at the pump are extremely high by American standards, for example Mm-hmm. I don't think extremely high is correct. They're lower than they were under Joe Biden They're higher than they were when Trump went out of office by far the first time and so Does the president control gas prices? No, they don't supply and demand does and they can do some things like turn on and off pipelines and Bomb Iran that affects supply demand, but you know gas prices are not causing an economic crisis in the United States today They're high and they're uncomfortable. I filled up my truck the other day is a hundred fifty get dollars. I didn't like that How much did it use cost? You know, it's a hundred and it's been as high as two hundred and sometimes it's come down Okay, well, let's skip forward a few years then to the COVID pandemic in 2020 That affected the whole world for about three years when you talk to Americans now Six years down the line. How often does it come up? I think when I talk to anyone anywhere in the world There's a level of PTSD from that event, but economically, I mean when you shut down entire economies I don't know what you expect except problems you shut down personal incomes you shut down the source of the personal incomes Which are the companies that are creating the incomes and so you can't just turn that off and not have a negative effect You know the last crisis was the major crisis was the global financial crisis at that time the global economy shrunk by 0.1% so it was negative 0.1% right now in our baseline We're talking about growth at negative 3% so this is the worsens the great depression How much would you say that crisis is shapes the way we are in the world now? Way more than I wish it had and there's still some hyperbole still some lingering effects One of them is for instance working remote Working remote was almost non-existent prior to the pandemic and And then it became like this raging fad post pandemic that you had to work remote We don't have we have 1100 team members here and we don't work remote. We work at work and And we did through the pandemic to and we have found that our productivity is way higher And the individuals that are in the office have a way higher percentage of getting promoted There's tons of research coming out now that working remote is bad for the team member And so people are moving away from it in the United States But they've not moved all the way away from it So we've still got some office buildings and major markets that were full of people pre-pandemic and are empty today So of those three crises that we've run through there So we had the dot com bubble in 2000 we had the global financial crisis which started in 2008 and then the pandemic of 2020 where would you rank those three alongside the situation that the United States and the world finds itself in now, Dave? The pandemic is by far the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life Nothing even close because of the extremes that everything went to And the economic impact was just devastating in my lifetime. I'm 66 years old 2008 would be the second one dot com will be the third one and again. I've had other things I can't lay my hand on one right now on my memory, but Other times that I was more worried than I am at this moment So I don't consider us sitting in a major dramatic crisis right now There's some pain points in our economy, but I don't think there were crisis applies World of secrets is where untold stories are exposed in the new series a scandal inside one of Indonesia's vast network of Islamic boarding schools. I kept telling myself don't end up with him alone and how former pupils have turned Detective daring to speak out against an institution that wants them silent World of secrets catching my teacher listen now wherever you get your BBC podcast You might drink it every day, but did you know that the history of tea is steeped in skull duggery colonialism and Industrial espionage. I'm Greg Jenner host of your Dead to Me with a comedy show that takes history seriously and in our latest episode We spill the tea on tea join us to unpack the ancient Chinese origins of the drink and find out how it became the national drink of modern Britain Listen on BBC dot com or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Chris even of a tweak from the global jigsaw podcast from the BBC where we explore serious struggle for justice The new authorities seek to hold figures of the Assad regime accountable for their crimes But many of them remain beyond the reach of Syrian courts. We ask how can victims find redress? The global jigsaw looks at the world through the lens of its media. Find us wherever you get your BBC podcasts You might drink it every day, but do. Did you know that the history of tea is steeped in Skolduggery, colonialism, and industrial espionage? I'm Greg Jenner, host of Your Dead To Me with a comedy show that takes history seriously, and in our latest episode, we spill the tea on tea. Join us to unpack the ancient Chinese origins of the drink and find out how it became the national drink of modern Britain. Listen to Your Dead To Me wherever you get your podcasts or watch us on YouTube. Let's talk a little bit about the role of politicians in the economy in the United States. You've previously blamed politicians for what you consider American's economic dependence. You've said, "President should do, quote, as little as possible about the economy. How would you rate Donald Trump on that basis?" Medium. There's some things he's done have been very good. Other things he's done have been a bit showbooty, which we might expect from President Trump. In general, he's done fine, but some of the things he promised he's not been able to deliver, but they're really not in his control all the time. President Biden got blamed for 9.6% inflation coming out of the pandemic. I blame President Biden for a lot of different things, but that wasn't one of them. You supported Donald Trump in the 2024 election. Do you stand by that support? Sure. Yeah. But I've never supported someone 100%. I don't even agree with myself all the time. Much less agree with an individual in the White House all the time. We don't play politics. Just in terms of really getting in and just say, "This is my guy and no matter what he does, he's right." Nah. Some of the stuff he does is silly, and some of the stuff he does has been genius. What's been silly, as you say, about his economic policies? Well, the tariff thing was a very herky jerky. It was all over the map because of the methodology he was using to negotiate was so brutal and it created a lot of volatility, and it has really put the hurt on some small business people. It really wasn't his intent. I know what his intent was, it doesn't matter what the intent was. The result was that I talked to a small business guy the other day. His profits, a whole bunch of his profits went to tariff this year, and he's not happy. Net net net is probably going to be okay over time, but in the short term, Manit created some ripples that were not positive. There are a couple of things that Donald Trump has said over the last few months that have raised some eyebrows, not just in the United States, but also around the world. We're going to play a couple of them to you, and we'd be interested to get your response to them. I don't want to hear about the affordability because right now we're much less. If you look at energy, we're getting close to $2 gallon gasoline. I don't want to drive housing prices down. I want to drive housing prices up. The word affordability is a fake word, but made up by the Democrats. Here's where it's like because they made it up. I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. When you heard Donald Trump say those things, Dave, what was your reaction? Sounded just like Donald Trump. I mean, that he's constantly spouting it's something. That's his approach to handling the media, his dropping sound bites out there one way or the other. Then we can go back and we can look at the actual, what he has actually done versus what he said. Again, do I worship Donald Trump? No, I don't, but I'm also not going to just sit and go, he's the most ridiculous buffoon on the world because some of the stuff he's done has been absolutely genius. And some of it is, some of the things come out of his mouth. We all shake our head and go, what? But there it is. Would you advise Donald Trump to use those kinds of words? I don't get the opportunity to advise Donald Trump if you were his advisor, hypothetically speaking. You know, I don't like the word affordability either because it has a spirit of victimhood on it versus I control my destiny by controlling the controllables. If you want to be a homeowner and you make $78,000 a year, you cannot choose to live in Manhattan. Do you think Americans are generally bad with money? Americans, and for that matter, people around the world, depending in developing countries, are generally bad with money. They generally spend more than they make. They generally carry a level of consumer debt that's unhealthy. They generally don't save well for the future. And so yeah, 78% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. I think we can call that bad with money. And that's one of the reasons we have millions and millions of listeners, is people are struggling with that issue and going, okay, how can I get better? I got to fix the guy in my house more than I got to fix the guy in the White House. Dave, Americans pride themselves on their pull yourself up by your bootstraps ethos. I feel qualified to say that, Dave, because you can't tell from my accent by, I'm actually I am a citizen. I'm a U.S. citizen. So I'm allowed to talk about this. Do you feel that the pull yourself up by your bootstraps ethos is still alive and well? You know, the problem with pull yourself up by your bootstraps is it represents the positive of personal responsibility, but it represents the negative in that it's naive because no one ever does it alone. I've worked very, very hard and I've told the truth and I've been very principled and I've been very, very, very consistent, sickeningly consistent. I did those things, but I did them in an environment with a lot of wonderful human beings walking alongside me that also believed in this and caused it to happen. Well, let's turn to the current moment, Dave, because it's election season in the United States. A lot of indicators suggest this question of affordability, a word that you've said, you don't like, you don't recognize, nonetheless, it seems, for some people, it might be the most consistent issue that keeps coming up time and time again and may decide the election. You interviewed Donald Trump back in October 2024. The president, Trump, thanks for taking time to sit down with us. Just before he was re-elected, a show called Ramsey Show and talked to regular folks every day, calling in. Most of the time with financial trouble. And you asked him back then about the cost of living. They're not concerned with a lot of things, but they are concerned with $8.00, $5.00, $7 percent of the streets and a house they can't afford with wages, not going up as fast as house prices. He pledged in that interview to you that he was going to cut the cost of energy by 50% and that he was going to bring the tax rate down. I believe I'll be able to get energy down to 50%, 50%, 50% of what it is right now within a period of less than a year. Wow. That's pretty good. It's going to happen fast. Has he lived up to the pledges that he made to you when he spoke to him back in 2024 on the cost of living? On the cost of living, those numbers have not happened. But again, he's a politician running for office and I have never seen a politician ever of either party deliver on something like that because I don't think it's in their control. Now we don't have $8.00 ex anymore and the grocery basket has not continued to, at the time of that interview, the grocery cart analysis of what someone pays for groceries was skyrocketing and that has stopped, but he didn't cut it in half and he didn't cut energy in half. No, that is not. But again, I didn't think he would when he said that. You sound quite forgiving, Dave. Do you think US voters will be similarly forgiving? I have no idea. I'm not a political analyst. I truly have no idea. Well, you speak to Americans every day. What's your sense from that, though? The ones that I speak to think that what happens at their house, and if they don't think that by the time I finish with them, I want them thinking that what happens at their house is more important than what happens at the White House. So who do they believe in? When you borrow own credit cards up to your eyeballs and take out a $1,200 car payment on a freaking Range Rover and and and and and borrow money, you've destroyed your life. Not the president. I think those that believe that they'll never be able to buy a house because of the in quotes affordability crisis. Those that believe that the Iran War has caused an economic crisis, which I don't buy off on either one of those things to the extent that someone does to the level of drama that they do. Those that believe that were probably not going to vote for Donald Trump or his party anyway, and they're not going to vote for him in the fall. Now will they marshal up and those some people out of office that I guess they could? I don't know. Dave Ramsey, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to talk through this all with you. Thank you Tristan, honor to be with you guys, thank you for having me. That was Dave Ramsey, consumer finance expert and host of the Ramsey show. Let us know what you thought of today's episode. You can email us as always at a global story at BBC dot com messages with your feed back and any ideas you might have to for future episodes. And please rate us wherever you're listening because it really helps other people find us. And a quick recommendation for you. As you know, our show is about whether world in America meet. We have one deep dive on one story every day. But if you want the very latest news headlines from around the world, then it's our sister show, the global news podcast that you need. I listen every morning, you can find them wherever you get your podcasts. And that's it from the global story for today. The episode was produced by Cat Farmsworth. It was edited by Martin Powers and mixed by Travis Evans. Our digital producer is Charlie Firth. And our senior news editor is China Collins. And I'm Tristan Redman. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great weekend. We'll see you next week. Cheerio. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcast.