The Girls Are Investors Podcast: Interns Share Their Stories

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Gain Meets. I'm Paige Taylor, Programs Manager here at Gain and I'm joined today by Shivali Agarwal and Husslin Harabata to take a deep dive into their Gain internship experience. Shivali has just graduated from the University of Bristol with a degree in Economics and Management and Husslin has just graduated from the London School of Economics with a degree in Accounting and Finance while done both. You've also just finished summer internships with a hollow global management, which deserves another while done. I just didn't feel too good on the other side. I'm kind of missing work a little bit. It was quite fun doing talks but excited to spend some time with family and friends. Thank you so so much, Paige, for inviting both of us and really grateful to be here and I really enjoyed my summer with Upper Wall, so excited to a deep dive a bit more to share about my experience. Lovely and well I'm very excited to speak to you today and here about where your interested investment management has come from, what your summer internship was like and what's next for you and I'm sure you'll be able to inspire the young women and non-binary people listening to follow in your footsteps. So I guess it makes sense to start right back at the beginning. Could you tell me what drew you to a career in investment management and how did you first start exploring that? I think I can go first. So in terms of my interest in investment management, it was actually sparked by my fascination about how financial markets impact our daily lives while managing risk and I was particularly interested by the idea of like helping individuals and institutions grow their wealth whilst you know as I mentioned managing those risks and I started exploring this field during my university studies more specifically through attending inside events and open days at investment management funds. In recent years, investment management funds have you know opened up their doors for students and also fresh graduates to experience what it's like to work on the buy side. So you will definitely find these opportunities for open day type of events happening throughout the year. Mainly I would say they're very active during the fall recruiting season so I would recommend trying to attend as many of them as possible during the fall term which is I guess less busier than the winter term when students will be preparing for their final exams and assessments and I also took online courses and utilized my university's alumni network which is very important to reach out to previous graduates who are now working in investment management via LinkedIn which gave me a great insight into the industry and further solidifying my interest in investment management and I realized that investment management was a career that not only aligned with you know my strengths in analytical thinking and problem solving but also offered a dynamic and challenging environment to make an impact through my work. No thank you Kuslin. I definitely agree with a lot of what you said in terms of full being a lot more active and also being able to grow companies well. I think initially I didn't really understand what investment management was I'd got involved in my university finance societies and throughout that I didn't realize I was doing investment management as part of my university they have the Bristol Investment Fund where you can become an analyst and pitch stocks weekly and decide see what the market trends are and see what's good investment. I didn't realize that was investment management at the time but now looking back understanding more about the industry I'm like wow that was I really enjoyed that experience however I'd say that initially I just I didn't know what investment management was and the first interaction I fully had that introduced me to it was through a random email from my women in finance society that said final data apply for internships and it was actually the gain programme so that's how I first heard about gain and investment management in general. Applied to the internship programme then understood more about the organisation a lot of different insight days that gain hosts as well as the opportunity to see lots of free resources which is invaluable especially when you're trying to understand more about an industry I think what first grew my interest in it was just seeing all the different things that were available. There is so much available out there so you've both mentioned about insight days being away for students to learn more about the industry and that a lot of them happen in the autumn term what would your advice be for students who don't know where to start finding out about the investment management industry where would they find those kinds of opportunities. I think for students maybe like who are unsure where they could start firstly my advice would be to begin educating themselves on the basics of finance and accounting and this can be done by doing maybe spring internships which are short term maybe a week or ten day insight programme would mostly done with investment banks and these are for first or second-year students so I think that's a great platform to start and I think after learning these basic if you find what to learn interesting and enjoy your time during the insight weeks then it's probably best to start exploring different avenues within finance one being investment management as there are many roots that one can take in finance very personally when I really got to the grips of the differences between investment managers and banks was through joining an organization called S.E.O. London and they have a dedicated alternative investment programme which students can join and learn from zero I think I literally went from like zero to like I would say like you know goods like 60 to 70 before starting my internship and they have their dedicated team which I would highly encourage everyone to look into and also they provide support during interviews and I recommend you to invest management firms for their internships which is I think an incredible rare opportunity there are also other organizations for example like level 20 which is getting this partnered with with and they host insight events and so these are really great platforms and you can find all these information through your university societies so I highly encourage joining as many of them as possible also there is many free online resources articles etc one that I can suggest is a Polo Academy which is a learning platform from a whole global management and it's a great resource for students in the early stages of their journey and they would provide detailed explanation of all facets of alternative investments so yeah as I mentioned before networking is also very crucial try to connect with as many professionals in the industry through LinkedIn and make sure to actually like keep in touch with them afterwards if possible and you know like in terms of following up it doesn't necessarily have to be long emails can be just the simple few lines every two months explaining your career development which have been up to how your studies are progressing and don't definitely hesitate to reach out to alumni network as well and I was also part of my university is a study called LSA role asset investment study which is in terms of career wise which you know allow me to meet like minded peers who wanted to work in the same industry and I think it's like it was a really great experience great platform because not only you get to exchange ideas but actually like establishing relationships early on because you never know maybe in a few years time you will be doing deals together and you know successful deal really hinges on relationship aspect so I think from that side joining these sides are also a great way to take your foot into the industry yeah 100% I agree with everything that Husslems mentioned I'd say if you're like ground zero basis no knowledge of investment management that's completely fine everyone starts from somewhere even people who have been in the organization for three to five to ten years no matter how long they've been there there's always those things to learn to the most important thing is to go in with an attitude of I'm going to learn this I'm going to learn this because you are going to constantly be learning in this role which is part of what makes it so exciting I'd say one thing is don't be afraid to ask people so Husslems mentioned going to networking events I'd say that just to highlight they're incredibly valuable for example recently when I've been applying to roles if I like now have had three years sort of in university and throughout university attending lots of different events my peer network through university societies as well everyone has a wide range of different experiences and having those people who you can just quickly shoot a message to and say hey I have a couple of questions about this can you help me answer these it's going to give you a lot more knowledge so even if you know nothing right now you're going to learn more throughout your time at university or whatever whatever else you're doing you'll learn more the ways to go about learning more are online resources I would say webinars are really really good game has done some really great ones in terms of meeting when you have like meet the firm days you can speak to the firms understand more about the firms if you connect to the people who are hosting those events when you have questions later on you can ask them for example I went to a one it warding him inside day I think a year or two ago throughout there I have now got people who if I have questions about certain investments I can ask them and they'll be able to answer and that just gives you an extra knowledge, extra knowledge about the industry itself, and also when you're going to interviews you now have that. Other resources are investor-pedia. It's fantastic and intensive. With finance, there's a lot of key terms. People make it sound more difficult than it is because the terminology is just so high level, but the more you understand the technology, the terminology, the more comfortable you will feel within the environment and the more you understand. Also, throughout your entire time, don't think of it as there's so much I need to know about investment management. Each thing that you learn is a building block to the next part of your career. You don't need to know everything. You just need to be willing to learn each little block, and then eventually you'll realize how much you've learned over the course of your time. In my first year, I thought I wanted to do sales and trading sort of markets, and I applied for global markets, and then I applied for global capital markets, thinking, oh, they both have global and markets in it. I only need to get to the assessment centre and realise, wait, I've actually applied for something completely different. This is capital raising, and I loved it. I was like, this is so much fun. This is a really interesting industry, but they are completely, completely separate things. And I was learning experience for me. There are so many different parts of finance. Just be aware of what you're applying to, and you'll learn about all the different books as you go through it. Finance societies at university, invaluable in terms of one, you gain hands on experience. So my technical knowledge, everyone at university has no idea what they're doing in finance. By the way, if you're in university, like first year, second year, third year, but even now, after I've graduated, I'm like, I know more. I don't know everything. And that's okay. So go to the finance societies. People are going to be friendly. They're going to be nice. They're going to understand that. There's going to be second-year third years who are willing to help out first years. Just go and do any courses that they have. So for example, at Bristol, they allow you to do Bloomberg market concepts. Really great course giving you a fundamental understanding, and you get a certification as well, through gain, through the internship, you get a level four banking and finance diploma with amplifying me. So having those certifications gives you credibility when you're interviewing with people. And also, it shows people that you're interested. You can come from any background. You can do history, classics, whatever you want, economics and management is what I did. But, and personally, I'm also a customer, accounting and finance background, but any degree that you want to do, just go, you can learn all of this stuff. I mean, forage, these are other websites that host events, Bright Network, does really good events as well. Careers' fairs, very underrated, but your university's going to put them on and you should definitely go. Like I said, speak to the people, understand questions. Clio Finance has lots of online resources, 100 women and finance, lots of things online. Apollo Academy, also brilliant resource, gained resources as well. And then also, there's websites, such as merges and inquisitions, Wall Street Oasis, Wall Street Prep, and in terms of podcasts, I would definitely recommend listening to FT News Briefing. The economist intelligence is really nice because it has one politics one, one sort of general history one, and then one cultural one, which is really interesting. Morning, brew, short squeeze, I really like because it's funny and it tells you about deals that are happening. And there's also, there'll be Instagram accounts where it's people making jokes about working in finance, but through that you actually understand more about what certain technical concepts are. Like if someone says whack, I'm like, I have, first I'd be like, I have no idea what that is, but eventually you'll learn more and more and more about it. And highlighting, speaking to people, like in a half an hour conversation, you can learn such an insane amount. And if you go in with the attitude of, this is what I want to know, out coming from that conversation, it'll be really useful as well. I think Redwell, there are so many resources out there and you both made use of different ones, which is really great to hear. So, and as far as you've definitely spoken, a little bit more about how you have engaged through gain, how else have you to engage with gain that you maybe haven't mentioned or anything you'd like to talk more about? - The thing just overall being has been, like provides me with really well opportunities that have been instrumental in my development within like career thus far. And network has been probably the most significant aspect because I probably would not have been able to be selected for the interview, to, you know, for the internship at a poll because I actually attended an inside day last year. Through that, I was able to communicate during my application that, you know, this is, I'm really interested because of XYZ. And I have a proof that I'm actually interested because I attended an inside day and this is what I've learned, you know? So, that was incredible. And I've also received, I would say, another thing that I'm really, really grateful for is the mentorship that I received during my internship. It was an invaluable experience having, you know, someone guide me. She was like within a poll. She was from a different department. But from her experience, I got to learn many different things and she gave me really great tips. You know, I was sometimes, some days, I would have moments of like, you know, doubt, et cetera, but she really reassured that this is normal at this stage of your career. You are very much, you know. Just sponge trying to absorb all the information that's been given at you when a short period of time, eight weeks. So yeah, that was really great. And inside days and events that was organized by game gave me such a deeper understanding of the investment management industry, this overall. And then, yeah, just, I'm grateful that I managed to secure the internship through games. Thank you so much to you guys. - No, 100%. Like everything that Kirsten said is, I think my life would look very, very different if it wasn't for game. And it's not just the internship program itself, it's opportunities that you get from being on the internship program and speaking to different people who have also done internships. I can give an example in terms of game hosted this networking drinks for the other intern cohort. And this was last year. I went to the intern networking drinks, met a couple of people. They were lovely people. And it's so nice to be surrounded by a peer group who are all in a similar space to you because when you go into these firms, everyone has a wide range of experiences. And sometimes it is difficult to understand everything that's happening and being with other people who also don't understand. Sometimes is a really nice feeling. So one of the interns who I met, those networking drinks, she organized a separate networking that she reached out to a firm called.72, which is like a hedge fund. And we all got to go to the.72 event. And it was an amazing networking opportunity that came out from a networking opportunity hosted by Gain in the first place. And then I was going to something hosted by Bright Network. So I sent her the link to that saying, "Hey, if you want to come along, this is happening." So she joined me then. And you kind of form friendships and bonds with these people and later on throughout your career. This is something that right now is not going to feel that important. But when you grow through your career, your career is like a really, really long time game. You're in it for at least 30, 40, 50 years. And so as you progress throughout your career and you become more senior, your network becomes even more important. But even at this initial stage, like we're so lucky to have a group of people who are all very similar-minded or wanting to do work really well and all really thinking about our futures. I'd say also the technical training and the soft skill training is something that is a really useful resource that Gain has. And I would definitely recommend implementing more of that and taking more time to understand that. I actually, through the Gain internship program, got my spring week as well because with the first set of interviews that I have, I wasn't able to secure the summer, but they gave me my spring. And that gave me a second opportunity to go for a summer. With the spring, you get to meet other new people. And then with the summer, you get to meet other new people as well. And it's just building that network. I'd say mentoring is also fantastic through Gain. I've had two mentors through Gain. And I have had mentors through other programs as well who have been phenomenal, but I'll just speak Gain specifically in terms of. When you're first going in, you have no idea really what you're supposed to do in the internship and having someone who will tell you, this is what you should think about looking at. So for example, a list of key terms, understand what all the different terminology is, is the advice that my first mentor gave me. It was so useful because before, I just wouldn't have, I would just let these terms come at me and think, I'll remember them. Now I have a list of all the key definitions and I can consistently go back, revisit them. And it just keeps those initial building blocks of knowledge, constantly building if you're making notes and understanding them. My second mentor from this year's internship has already connected me with someone who'll be working who has previously worked at the internship that I'll be doing for six months after starting in September. And as a result of that, I now have more of an understanding of what to expect, what to go in, how to go into it. So your mentors are in valuable resources and gain giving you mentors. We are very lucky to have people who want to push you and want to see you succeed in your career. And there's going to be so many things that happen that you're just not going to know how to deal with. And people who have been through that in the past will have fantastic advice on how best to manage this. If you've had so much support and the support doesn't stop there now that you are gain program alumni, you can join our program alumni community. And there's more networking events and career development opportunities for you. And they'll plug there. So you have to stand your internship at Apollo Global Management through the gain and power investment internship program, which is what we're here talking about. Can we deep dive into what that application process does like you and love to be to give the students listening some tips on how to stand out in the internship program application. For me, the application process for the internship was a really rewarding experience. It first of all began with an online application where I had to submit my resume and then answer a few questions about my interest in the industry and the program as well. And then this was followed by a series of interviews to rounds to be precise. And the interviews were first and focused on my motivations and also deep dive into my historical internship experience. I also had to complete a modeling test in between the interviews which assessed my excel and also quantitative skills. And it was a one hour test, you know, cash flows. And then I think it's like different between like the departments. I interned in the rail state equity department. So my specific team had some fits on rail state's technicals. And lastly, I would say brush up on the technical skills and be ready to articulate why you're interested in investment management. Because I think I was attending the webinar by game where the tips were given. We're actually like sometimes when students are applying. There's like a part where they're asking why are you interested in investment management. And then some students just write investment banking instead of the investment management. So these are the things to watch out and know the differences as we've been discussing throughout this podcast. And maybe lastly practice basic excel tests and these can be done on free websites such as Wall Street Pratt to ensure that they're comfortable with the format. Was a polly the first firm you interviewed with with the game internship program? Yes, exactly. It was my first choice. Okay, should I? Would you like to tell us about your experience? Yeah, I think that my application was slightly different to her slins in terms of I think the last I think the application process has changed from last year. So we were asked about achievements, extracurricular and teamwork and now it's changed to showcase some slightly different skills but it's really good that you think about your answers to the application process itself because those are assessing core skills that the interviewers really would like to hear about. And if you're applying for internships, I know 100% everyone's going to apply to the game internship but make sure you also apply to other internships as well. And with those just practicing your competencies and what your strengths and what your understanding of why you want to do something is is very important. So I'd say definitely spend a lot of time preparing and understanding how you can best frame your experience to put you in the best lights, especially because in an interview that is essentially what you're going to get asked about. My application process was two separate firms. So I initially interviewed with C DNR which is a private equity firm and interview process for that was I submitted my application to game. I was placed with the firm to interview. I interviewed first round. It was two rounds and then in my second round we were just it's kind of not necessarily technical in the way that you might hear about banking interviews being technical in terms of it was more technical in terms of consultancy and how you think about a business and how you think about revenue generation operating profits reducing costs and the best way to improve a business strategy because that's more aligned with what that firm does. My technical experience in that background was not as high for the requirements for the summer internship which is why I got given the spring and then for the summer internship at Apollo the internship. The interview process for that was I didn't have a modeling test. I was placed with Apollo and I interviewed with six different people across two different teams. So four people on European investment grade which is a private credit function and then two people on capital solutions which is within the private credit team but a separate function and essentially it was motivational competency also understanding what the firm does. I think that's really important. When you're speaking to these people these people are people who have worked on deal so when I was reading up on Apollo's previous deal history which is something I would recommend everyone does for every single firm is understand what their historical investment track record is what makes them special what's their competitive edge what what are the deals that they've done historically typical deal sizes and understanding industries and sectors that they like. When I was reading online I was thinking this is the coolest thing ever because when I went to my actual interview I remember I filmed a TikTok after I was just I didn't post this one don't worry it's in the drafts but I was just so excited because the people who I had spoken to had worked on the financing for a real estate transaction that was done in Germany and I just felt like this is insane that these people this is over a billion dollars of a transaction and I'm speaking to the people who have genuinely worked on this deal put in the work to make this transaction go through and it's just amazing and then actually working with those people as well you realize how how those deals come about and it fills in something that you didn't even know in the first place but the deals that people are working on is what people are kind of giving their life to when they're working so if you can understand what the deal is and you can discuss that because these are really interesting transactions like it's insane that you can interviews are kind of an opportunity to understand more about the transaction itself and speaking to them is a really really you're in a very fortunate position to get to do that so I think it's showing enthusiasm and excitement for the role because that is kind of what you could be doing in the future as well. Thank you and then so let's talk about the actual internship itself so you both sat in different teams yeah you both sat in different teams what have you learned what was like the best day you had what did you get to work on what was the social side of it like so the intracure experience overall was such an incredible learning experience I was involved so I was part of the roles that equity investing team and throughout my time I was involved in various projects and some of the key tasks were conducting market research to assist in with financial analysis and also like something that was really interesting was doing a mystery shopping where I got to kind of hunt on the competitors assets and I would say like after eight weeks one of the key lessons I learned was the importance of first-world attention to detail whether it's analyzing data or preparing reports accuracy is extremely crucial and I also gained a deeper understanding of different investment strategies and how they are applied in real world scenarios through pending launch and learn series which were offered pretty much every week whilst we were there over the summer and also a Polish mission of giving back to the communities we got to you know be part of interesting and fun volunteering activities such as building playgrounds and spending a day in a farm helping out as well so those were really really fun and we had a really great intern cohort I think there was about 12 of us and all of us come from different backgrounds we were studying different subjects it was very international so I got to learn you know a lot from the intern group as well which is just something that I'm super grateful for and probably the last thing I would say is the internship taught me the value of collaboration and obviously a poll doesn't have a Chinese ball and a lot of the deals if like one team is working on and then if it's not suitable for their strategy they can you know pass it on to a different team that they may think it's suitable for so this is like highlighting how incredibly collaborative the environment is so being able to work alongside these extremely talented professionals and being part of the team that was a really enriching experience which helped me grow a lot both professionally and also personally as well I think the people that you're working with obviously they wouldn't be there they weren't incredible at what they do but when you're in that environment and you're surrounded by everyone who is just amazing you can learn so much from going to these people and understanding more about the way that they work the way that they think about things and the way that they think about things is so different to how you would expect to think about say a certain company and I was giving a presentation to the people on my team for the research that I had done the questions that they asked me were so insightful and really focus my mind on to what how I should be thinking about this company to be able to value it to be able to value and decide whether this is a good investment it's through the questions that they ask you the discussions and I land so much through the feedback that was given was so detailed in terms of thinking about think about this think about so for example one of the companies that I was presenting on understand really what how does this company make money like that is a really fundamental crux of what to understand and I just on see I never re fully understood the importance of that until I was with these professionals who have this experience and know this is what's important this is what's key because you have limited time and there's a lot of different things that you can work on a lot of different things you can understand and one of the things I've learned is sometimes you have to say say you know what that it's cool to be able to know this about a company to decide if it's a good investment it's not critical and I'm not necessarily going to focus on that right now I'm going to focus on this because this is what my stakeholders and the people who are senior to me would like to know. and being in that environment where other people are on the same wavelength and working on the same projects as it's really critical as well. Also, just general Excel PowerPoint, knowing how to research and how to go about things, sending emails to people is also something that I've learnt throughout my internship. The importance of communication, I think throughout the internship you're going to do things and then you're going to get feedback that's going to show you how to improve for next time. So, for example, when I was working on a task, I wouldn't tell my manager what stage the task is at. And if they need it done by a certain time, they want to know that it's going to get done by a certain time. So, communicating upwards and letting them know that this is where it's at right now. So, they're aware of the status of it. In terms of what else I've learnt, there's so many different things. I think as if I had to bucket it, I'd say knowledge about the industry itself, improved dramatically, knowledge on general technical skills, and then knowledge on my own personal way to approach things and how I work. I'd say you're surrounded by people who are very, very good at what they do. Asking them questions, going, "Hey, do you have 20 minutes for let's grab a coffee and can you tell me a bit about what you do?" There is no barrier to information at a pilot. You can go to anyone, you can speak to anyone about all the different teams and understand what they do. And the lunch and lunch that we did have, the opportunity to go to people and have them explain what their section does and understand how that fits in whether the function of the business was really important for my own understanding. Because when you're working in investment management, it's a specific part of finance, but also within investment management, there's so many different parts of it as well. If you can understand more about all those different parts, it's really helpful when you're in an organisation to be able to do that. Because people are more willing to talk to you and you can understand more about whether your skillset is suited towards this, or suits towards this, and what skills you need to develop as well. Also, the projects that you've got to work on at a pilot is because it's a very big company. You can see really, really cool stuff that you just wouldn't be able to see in other places, I'd say. And the projects that you get given, you get high quality information, so what you produce is high quality as well because you're given the best information. You have all the systems that you need to be able to do that. So, for example, Bloomberg, that was something that I had not actually used before to its full extent. And in my previous internship, I'd used Excel, but I'd used Cap IQ as an alternative to Bloomberg, so figuring out how you can use certain softwares and where to find information is another critical skill that has been developed throughout my time. Not to mention the fact that other interns were a lot of fun to be around, and you just, you understand more about how different teams are doing things through speaking to different people and being in the internship is one of the best ways that you can do that. Sounds like you both had such a jump at eight weeks, and you've learned so much and I really liked what you said so farly about grabbing someone and asking if they have 20 minutes for each talk to you about something, because you only have eight weeks, it's actually not not that long to make the most of them. The time you've gotten an office, it feels like you're given really, really great projects and not just an extra way to go and grow your network and learn about what other areas of the business are doing. And that is fantastic. What are your top tips for future interns, they can make the most of their internships, so maybe you can give me like two each or I can go. So I think the first one I would say being proactive, I speak to different people in your team to ask for responsibility and offering your help in general, and it would show enthusiasm and willingness to learn from your side. As Shavali mentioned, networking within the organization and building relationships with various colleagues can provide you with valuable insights, but also maybe in the future if you would like to kind of pivot and switch to like, let's say you were doing like corporate private equity, but then you're interested now in infrastructure. Taking to these people and like understanding what the industry is all about could be a great way to make this pivot and it will open up doors for the future as well. And then maybe like also keeping a journal of your experience is a great way to you know, keep note of like what you've learned so far and help you reflect on your progress, but also serve as a useful tool when you're discussing your experience in future interviews. And one last thing I would say just always be on a student mode because these professionals they're not expecting you to know everything like actually they're going to like just assume you are at the stage of your career where you're trying to learn as much as you can. So people are really happy to explain different concepts from a beginner's perspective so don't be afraid to ask if there is like any doubts because I think it can be quite daunting because you might think I'm being a little bit of a burden to them, you know, because they're super busy. Yeah, don't be afraid. Yeah, I think the the don't be afraid is actually one of the pieces of feedback that I got at the end of my internship was like sometimes I was just feeling too shy, I was like everyone is so good. They're so they're like amazing at what they're doing. I feel like I'm going to just disturb them, but everyone's always really, really happy to help you just have to have the confidence to just go and ask them. If you go prepared with the questions that you want answered, people are not going to stop you from learning you're there to learn. That's the whole point of being an intern. Otherwise you'd you'd be in the social if you're at this company. And I think another piece of advice that I'd say is I was very, very lucky with my manager being amazing in terms of putting me on projects, letting me listen into calls and I was even given responsibilities of like being allowed to send emails to people who are external clients as well. I think you can get a lot of responsibility and you can see a lot of very interesting things while you're interning. Also make sure you know what you want to develop as your skills from your internship. So I had a conversation with my manager who has been fantastic in terms of helping me develop and know what skills I should look for and improving. He suggested he's given me projects that would help me develop those skills. So for example, valuation is a really cool skill when you're working within investment management. So my tasks were developing DCFs which is a certain type discounted cash flow. It's a type of model, LBOs, leverage bio, it's a different type of models which I had had previous internship experience in but with these kind of exercises repetition is really key. So the more reps you do or something the better you get and my manager pushed me in that direction to help develop those skills but they wouldn't have known that if I hadn't communicated with them what skills I would like to develop as well. So speak to your person and ask them to give you projects that are tailored towards your interest and also helping you develop those skills. So that way you know what you want out of the internship. I'd also say keep reviewing what you've done. So like let's say you finish on a Friday maybe spend a little bit of time on Saturday or Sunday where you just take two or three hours to go over what you've done from your previous week, what you've learned, what the different skills you developed are. Write down a list of key terms I would recommend to consistently have running because you're always going to get thrown to things. I would go to the Monday morning meetings I'd leave with another 30 new things that I wanted to understand because there was a lot of terminology that was being used that I just had no idea about but by the end of the internship that 30 went down to about five. So it goes down because you're building and you're learning but just take the initiative to make sure that you are spending that time learning on the side apart from just the tasks you're doing make sure you really really understand what each of those things are especially for your future, your future applications and things. You are going to have so much more knowledge coming out of an internship. So you want to make sure that the knowledge you have is the highest quality and you did as much as you could to really understand everything. So I guess our final but most important question is how your internship inspired you to pursue a career in investment management? Yes, absolutely. The internship has definitely solidified my desire to pursue a career in investment management long term. I would say the experience provided me with a clearer kind of path and understanding of the impact that this field can have on clients' lives because you are actually dealing with capital that's dedicated towards retirements, funding education and growing different businesses. And I'm particularly inspired by the strategic aspect of the investment management industry, being able to craft these tailored solutions to meet different clients' goals is very, very rewarding. Also, the industry itself is very dynamic. There's no two days that are the same. So it really appeals for my love for continuous learning and also being a problem-solver. So I'm excited to see what lies ahead in the future and use my skills and the knowledge that I've learned throughout the internship as well as my studies and look forward to building a career ahead and hopefully an investment management. I think in terms of pursuing a career in investment, 100%, I think back at the past eight weeks, it just went so fast and I just think my God, time flies when you're having fun. So clearly, I was just having so much fun that I can't remember any of the eight weeks after it's gone. I think when you're working, there's always something that you can learn, there's always something to do, and I think especially with investment management, the problems that you're solving are for your clients, you're figuring out what the best solutions are, or you're given a task. It's just really interesting to think about how you are given a task and you have to use your brain to figure out a way to solve that task, and with investment management as well, it can be very fast, it's very high pressure and I really like that kind of environment where there's just because it's so intense, you really feel better, like after eight weeks and so so much better than I was before that and that is because I learnt so much, I was doing so many different things, I was able to improve on so many different skills and if that continues and it will throughout your career because an internship is an insight to what your role would be like as an analyst, and then as an analyst, what it would be like as an associate, and you see what your future could look like and the kind of task that you would be doing, and if I enjoyed my internship so much, then I'm expecting to enjoy the rest of my career as much as well. So I think it would be a really exciting opportunity to be in investment management. As well as the people who are in investment management are very, very much people who want to get things done and it's so nice to be in the environment, like it's not at university where you're kind of pulling teeth, like guys let's do this now, like please I really would like to actually submit my group course, like on time that would be fantastic, it's more like everyone is on it, everyone is getting things together and it's really nice to be in that kind of environment that pushes you to succeed and continuously self-improve. And you're about starting off cycle internship, that will be starting off cycle internship which will be a lot of fun. Well, thank you both for your time today, it's been wonderful talking to you, I'm so pleased you had wonderful internship experiences and hear that you're still interested in pursuing this as a career, we both have very bright future ahead. To everyone listening, if you feel inspired to follow the footsteps of Shavali and Heaslin, applications to our gain and power investment internship program 2025, open on the 9th of September and close on the 27th of October, please go to our website gainuk.org to find out more and find the application links, so thank you so much. Thank you guys and all the best for your applications, feel free to reach out.