The Girl No One Believed: The Sleepover Slayer Murder | The Case of Brooke Sutton & Clarence Elkins | UNSEEN

Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods, even they can't screw up. Have you met my kids? And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the Save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer, new members only. BJ's. Home of the Save. Do you think it was Uncle Clarence? At first, yeah. At first, yeah. But do you think so today? No. This is 10-year-old Brooke Sutton. Four years before this footage was recorded, Brooke was sleeping at her grandmother's house when she witnessed something she should have never seen. Do you recognize that picture? Who's in that picture? A guy. On June 7th, 1998, Brooke's young life takes a turn for the worse when an ordinary night at her grandmother's house turns into a living nightmare. Okay. Can you tell us what happened that night? I woke up in the middle of the night because I heard someone screaming. Barely awake, the little girl rushes to help her grandmother, only to end up face-to-face with a killer. I was like. I was scared because. she was a ghost. I was dying and I was so little. Okay. He hit me with something or. Yeah. Hooked me or something. Heavily injured and traumatized, Brooke is then manipulated into accusing her own uncle of the attack. I know this isn't coming from her. This child is like my own. one of my own children. Do you think today that Uncle Clarence was the same man you saw in the kitchen that night with your grandma? No. But it's a little late, so you'll have to reveal the truth. Brooke's uncle has already spent three years in prison at this point. And even if his wife, Melinda, can prove he's innocent, the police refuse to listen to her. Yes, I am his wife. And yes, I know that some women do stand up for their man and lie for them. But you're missing the biggest point here. That was my mother. And I want the person who did this to pay. While Clarence sits behind bars, the real killer is still out there. To set things right, Brooke and Melinda will have to retrace. what happened that night, build up their own investigation, and uncover the truth themselves. What do you want to happen next? I want my uncle Clarence to get out of jail. And I want the man who killed my grandma to be punished. June 7th, 1998. Brooke and her grandmother Judith are on their way home from a cousin's birthday party. Brooke is Judith's only granddaughter, so the 58-year-old is especially fond of her. My name is Brooke Sutton. On June 7th, 1998, I was six and I just finished kindergarten. That night, I ended up staying the night at my grandma's house. My grandma Judy was like my best friend. The pair has dinner, watches some cartoons, and soon enough, it's time for Brooke to go to bed. Judith gives her bedroom to her granddaughter. She will sleep on the living room couch. I took a bath and I got dressed in her nightgown, and then she tucked me into bed and then I went to sleep. A few hours later, in the middle of the night, Brooke wakes up to the sound of screams. She follows them to the kitchen and walks straight into a scene she should have never witnessed. So I ran back to my grandma's room because I was scared. He heard me run back to her room and hit me or knocked me out. Someone has broken into the house and violently assaulted Judith. After knocking Judith unconscious, the man does the same to the six-year-old. When Brooke regains consciousness, she doesn't understand what has happened. There's blood everywhere. And she can only see out of one eye. She stumbles out of bed and returns to the living room where she finds Judith lying face down. Brooke tries to wake her up, to no avail. She then starts looking for the phone to call for help. After what feels like forever, she finally finds it outside, discarded in the bushes. Panicked and disoriented, she can't remember the police's number. Instead, she leaves a voicemail at her friend's house, the only number she knows. "Hi. I'm not here right now. Just leave a message and I'll call you back." "Okay, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Bye." "Judy, I'm sorry to hear all you've heard about my grandma. I need somebody to get my mom for me. I'm all alone. Somebody can help my grandma. Help, please. But you can hold me up as soon as you can. Bye." When Brooke puts the phone down, she notices it's covered in blood. Confused, she reaches for the side of her face and is shocked to realize she's bleeding. Panicked, the six-year-old runs down the street to look for help until she reaches a neighbor's house. Twenty-five-year-old single mother of three, Tanya Brazeal, answers the door. She recognizes the little girl immediately. Her own daughters are some of Brooke's best friends. "She was crying, and like, I don't know, she just was a mess. She definitely looked like she was in pain." "My mom's like, 'Oh yes, guess it was him, it was him.' She was like, 'No, it was me.' Putting that in her mind, that it was her uncle. Brooke came to my door, she said, 'Please help me. My grandma was dead. My uncle clearance killed my grandma. I don't have no reason to lie about it." And Tanya's behavior with Brooke only gets stranger from there. The six-year-old is clearly terrified. Yet Tanya refuses to call the police. She doesn't even tend to the child's injuries. Instead, she tells Brooke to wait outside while she gets her own children ready for school. And so, the little girl waits, alone, for nearly an hour. Eventually, Tanya drives her back to her mother's house. But when they arrive, the woman starts speaking on Brooke's behalf. And suddenly, the story of a traumatized child who only ever saw a shadow in the dark turns into a full-blown accusation. "The neighbor, she kind of told everybody that I told her that it was my uncle, and everyone was questioning me, and I guess I kind of was agreeing with it." While this was happening, no investigator ever took the time to question any of Tanya's daughters about what they witnessed that morning. "I just feel like if someone would have came to us first, stuff would have been different with the Elkins case." Minutes after Brooke arrives at the hospital, investigators burst into the intensive care unit. She tells them she didn't see who did it. But this isn't enough for them. They press her further. And in Brooke's young, exhausted mind, the only way to make them stop is seemingly to repeat what she heard from her neighbor. But even then, the six-year-old is careful with her words. She doesn't outright say it was Clarence, but that the man might look like her uncle. But that's all the police need. Less than an hour after Brooke arrives at the hospital, officers raid her uncle's house. "And I remember Clarence going out the back door, and I seen him cross the window, and he kind of had his hands up like, you know, like what's going on?" "They were telling me to put my hands in the air, turn around and walk slowly backwards." Clarence, shocked and confused, doesn't carry out the order, and things quickly escalate. "And then I seen two or three police officers running down the hill of our backyard in like helmets and vests and guns. And of course, you know, what the heck is going on here?" Melinda runs outside, but the police intercept her before she can reach Clarence. They inform her that he's under arrest for the murder of Judith Johnson, Melinda's own mother. "I screamed, you know, because I just couldn't believe what they were telling me. My uncle was on the phone and he said, 'Yes, she's dead.' And Brooke is saying that it was Clarence." "And so I went to the police station. They tried to put words in my mouth saying, 'Why I did this and why I done that?' And I just could not answer one question they had." The police then ransack Melinda and Clarence's home. They're looking for evidence, but leave empty-handed. In the days following the arrest, they never interview anyone except Brooke and totally dismiss Melinda, assuming that whatever Clarence might have done, she had to be in on it. "Clarence was at home with me and our sons at the time of the murder. Not even one time did I ever, ever feel that Clarence could have done it. And I said to them, 'Yes, I am his wife. And yes, I know that some women do stand up for her. They stand up for their man and lie for them. That was my mother. And I want the person who did this to pay.'" Before we continue Brooke's story, we'd like to thank this episode's sponsor. Our sponsors help us continue our mission of sharing powerful survivor stories. And today, we've partnered with Shopify. At Unseen, we often talk about how frustrating it is to keep track of login information for different websites, let alone what password we use for all of our tools. Shopify simplifies this complexity in online shopping with their purple button. It keeps all your information saved and you can complete your checkout with the tap of a button. No remembering necessary. But the magical purple button isn't the only feature. Shopify helps you create polished email and social media campaigns in minutes. So your brand shows up wherever your audience is already scrolling. They help you actually find new customers with tools designed to target the right audience and grow your reach. Plus, if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24/7 and customer support. See less cards go abandoned and more sales go, with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com/unseen. Go to shopify.com/unseen. That's shopify.com/unseen. Following the botched investigation, authorities quickly brought Clarence before a judge. - During Clarence's arraignment, they brought him in in handcuffs and leg shackles. He was formally charged with aggravated murder for the murder of my mother. Three counts of rape. One count against my mother, two counts against my niece. Aggravated assault for the brutal attack on my niece. He was going to be facing the death penalty. - The proceedings would last 11 months. In that time, Melinda would lose everything. Her job, her house, but worst of all, her family. The two young sons, Clarence Jr. and Brandon, notice it. - At the funeral home, I remember walking in and it was just my brother, myself, and my mom, you know? We're all, we were just alone. Everybody was staring at us. The tension, you could have cut it with a knife. - This isn't the first time Melinda has felt estranged from her own family. Years ago, her mother revealed a secret that completely shifted their perspective towards her. - My mom took me for a car ride and just stopped. Proceeded to tell me that even though she loved me, she was not my real mom. And that I had come from a clinic in Georgia. - Not just any clinic. It was run by infamous baby smuggler, Dr. Thomas Hicks. He would tell mothers that their baby died during delivery, when in reality, the child had already been sold to someone else without the mother's knowledge. Melinda was one of these babies and Judith adopted her, unaware of what was really going on. Years later, when the truth finally resurfaced, the two went on a mission to find Melinda's biological parents, even appearing together on the "Mari" show mere weeks before Judith's murder. - Give us a picture of exactly what happened. So you went down to this clinic in Georgia. - Yes. - And what happened? - We walked in and they, we paid, like I said, a thousand dollars for the mother's keep. That's what, you know, we were told. So then they wrote out the birth certificate. They wrote it out in the mother's name. They wrote it out in my name. - If anything, the truth about Melinda's past only strengthens her resolve. Judith may not have been her biological mother, but she was her mother in every way that mattered. And Melinda is determined to get justice for her, even if it means turning against her own family. - My mother was buried on June 12th. I remember sitting at her graveside with my sons and making that vow to her that I would find out who did it. If it took me the rest of my life, I was going to find out who did that to her. And I didn't take that vow lightly. I meant what I said. - Justice for Judith is Melinda's ultimate goal. And to get there, she'll first need to prove her husband's innocence and uncover what really happened to Brooke that night. But at this point, putting her faith in the system feels like her only option. Although it's a decision she quickly comes to regret. - We hired what we thought were you know, good attorneys. The trial was a joke. There was no DNA testing done. There's no forensic evidence that links him to this crime. - The attorneys have kept Melinda in the dark. By the time she realizes how unprepared they really are, it's too late. The prosecution is calling Brooke to the stand. - They asked me to point out the killer, and I turned around and I pointed at my Uncle Clarence. It wasn't really me saying it. It was just everybody assuming it to be a child. - Clarence is powerless. He can only look up at his niece in disbelief. - You know, the only thing I could think of was mistaken identity or persuaded by someone, a coach. This child is like my own, one of my own children. - The jury hears Brooke's desperate call for help recorded on her friend's answering machine and sees the horrific pictures of the aftermath of the attack. The final blow comes from a familiar face, Judith's not-so-helpful neighbor, Tanya Brazeal. - She became Tanya Brazeal, the woman two doors down, the key witness against Clarence Elkins in addition to the little girl, because her testimony at trial was, "When the little girl knocked on my door, "she was screaming over and over again. "It was my Uncle Clarence, it was my Uncle Clarence. "I'm positive it was my Uncle Clarence." And so you actually had an adult sort of corroborating and backing up this weak testimony from the six-year-old girl. - I just kept going back to that and I kept, why would somebody do that? What would be the reason? What are they, is there something they're trying to hide? - After deliberation, the jury returns with a verdict. Clarence is acquitted of aggravated murder and cleared of the death penalty. Heavy sighs of relief resonate from Melinda and their sons, but the judge isn't done yet. For the remaining charges, the and murder of Judith, plus two counts of assault involving Brooke, Clarence is found guilty. Melinda breaks down crying as he's sentenced to two life sentences without parole. - And it was the most excruciating feeling when he looked at me, and I looked at him and he put his head down on the table. I thought I was going to die. I couldn't believe it. And they stood him up and they removed him from the courtroom and I told him that I loved him. And he looked back at me and he said, "I love you." And I think there was a picture of that, what I was feeling because I just couldn't believe it. Absolutely couldn't believe it. - Clarence is sent to one of Ohio's most notorious maximum security prisons. Melinda knows her husband is innocent, but nobody's listening. It becomes increasingly clear to her that if she wants the case solved, she'll have to take matters into her own hands. - After that, my whole thought process changed. I no longer trusted the justice system. I no longer trusted the police. And I said to myself, I am going to figure this out. I had to figure this out. I had no experience investigating a homicide, obviously, but anyone could have done a lot better than what Barberton Police Department did. - Melinda starts watching true crime shows and learns more about forensic science and how DNA can help pinpoint a suspect. For the first time, she sees a path forward. Using her local library and the early internet, she begins building a list of potential suspects in the area who have committed suicide. The list quickly grows past 100 names, and one by one, she sets out to collect each of these suspects' DNA, no matter how. - I would show up where they were frequenting and strike up a conversation. I would flirt, talk, seem interested in them, just so that I could gather their DNA. I had cigarette butts. I had urine in my mouth. I had a gun in my mouth. I had hair. I had a beer bottle. I had a beer bottle. Ultimately, my freezer looked like a laboratory. Now, for over three years, Melinda has lived a double life. By day, she works two jobs to support her family. By night, she becomes an investigator, By night, she becomes an investigator, quietly collecting evidence. But her efforts don't go unnoticed. Barberton is small, and word travels fast. Before long, people start recognizing her. The closer she gets to the truth, the more noticeable she becomes. Eventually, the attention forces her to make a choice. For the safety of her sons, Melinda is forced to pause her investigation. I was afraid that the person that had murdered my grandmother was going to catch on to what she was trying to do and hurt her as well. My brother and I, we always slept with knives under our pillows. We were just in fear of somebody coming to harm us because we were trying to find them. It was a hard moment for Brooke because she didn't know how to react. The reunion is emotional. Melinda, April, and Brooke have a lot of catching up to do. But Melinda remains focused. She needs to ask Brooke a few questions. She starts with the most important one. Is she still certain it was Uncle Clarence she saw that night? Without hesitation, the 10-year-old answers that she was never certain, shattering both women's entire understanding of the case. April is speechless. For the first time, she is forced to reconsider her daughter's testimony. And this is all Melinda needs to get started. She pulls an inch-thick folder from her bag and lays it out on April's kitchen table. In a single afternoon, she sums up three and a half years of investigation to her sister. Gradually, April realizes she may have made a terrible mistake. At first, I thought she was just insane. But then I stopped and I listened to her. And some things really made me think maybe we were wrong. Because there really wasn't any physical evidence against Clarence. A few weeks later, Brooke decides to recant her testimony. Now that she's a little older, she understands she had been influenced by the prosecutor, the police, and her neighbor. At only 10 years old, she takes it upon herself to clear her uncle's name in the hopes that her recantation would allow him a second chance at a trial. Why did you say it was Uncle Clarence? Because it looked like him. It looked like him. At first, yeah. At first, yeah. No. The reason I'm here today is to support my Uncle Clarence and my grandma. I want everyone to understand that I was not told to say that I was someone else. Another year passes, and in a cruel twist of fate, the prosecutor now claims the adult. have influenced her recantation. However, he never applied that same logic to her original testimony during the trial five years earlier. The other side would intend that she's now being coached. Oh, absolutely. It is outrageous what they have done to this child. Trust me, based on the evidence and based on everything I know, he did it. A strange argument to make in a case without any physical evidence, the entire thing rested on a fragile testimony of an impressionable six-year-old. But, by chance, that shaky foundation catches the attention of a non-profit organization dedicated to defending the wrongly convicted. I'm Mark Godsey. I'm a law professor here at the University of Cincinnati College of Law and director of the Ohio Innocence Project. Our mission is to look at old cases where the inmates have steadfastly maintained their innocence from the beginning to the end and see if there's some sort of evidence, new evidence, that might be able to shed light on it. I was in my office. When Melinda called the first time, she was calm and rational, and she knew the facts. She was immediately talking about DNA. So it was more like talking to a lawyer or an investigator. Between 1998 and 2004, DNA testing had evolved from a technology in its infancy into a proper science. Godsey believes modern testing could yield usable results from the original swabs. He also agrees to test several of the samples Melinda has collected during her investigation. If they can produce a match, the prosecutor would be forced to grant Clarence a new trial. When the results come back, none of the samples link Clarence or any of Melinda's suspects to the crime. This is good news. It further confirms that Clarence had nothing to do with the attack, but it also means Melinda's entire investigation has led to nowhere. For years, she had tracked down dozens of potential suspects, sometimes putting her own life on the line, all for nothing. And her failure does not go unnoticed. The driving force behind all this is, is Melinda Elkins, who just likes to be the center of attention. The prosecutors, you know, they were kind of validating their thoughts of me in the media. It's like, see, we told you, she's crazy. But Melinda refuses to back down. With the help of Godsey and her sister April, she files a motion for a new trial. Citing Brooke's recantation and the DNA results, they argue that Clarence's conviction cannot stand when nothing ties him to the crime. Yet, to the surprise of everyone involved, the motion is denied. I just couldn't believe this. The DNA doesn't match Clarence. Then that means it had to have been someone else. What more do they want? Do they want us to serve them who did this on a silver platter to them? Well, okay then, that's what we'll do. By now, Clarence has spent nearly seven years behind bars. And if the man who killed Judith is truly as dangerous as Melinda believes, there's a real chance he has already been arrested for some other crime. If that's the case, Clarence might be closer to the truth than anyone else. From that point on, he becomes Melinda's inside man, quietly observing the inmates around him while she continues her investigation on the outside. This is not about myself. It's for my mother-in-law and my niece. I want justice for everyone and the person that committed this crime be held accountable. As part of her new approach, Melinda stands on her own two feet, Melinda starts looking for recent convictions that fit the profile she had established at the beginning of her investigation. One day, on the front page of a local paper, she reads about the arrest of another violent predator. But what throws her off is a name she recognizes at the bottom of the article, Tanya Brazil. Although Melinda hasn't seen that name in many years, she could never forget the woman who refused to help her injured niece after the attack and who had testified against her innocent husband back in 1999. She was the person that my niece went to that morning for help and had always been a red flag for me because this particular woman did not call the police, did not call an ambulance for my niece, did not even let my niece in the house, but proceeded to leave her on the porch for 45 minutes before she put her in her car to take her to my sister's house. The offender, named Earl Mann, happens to be Tanya Brazil's long-term boyfriend and was just found guilty of molesting their children, Selena, Tasha, and Misty. When Melinda starts digging deeper, she makes another discovery. Earl Mann is a repeat offender who had been arrested at different points in time for breaking into houses and violently assaulting both women and children. The same kind of crimes committed the night Judith was murdered. On top of that, Earl Mann had been released from jail on June 5th, 1998, two days before the attack. On top of that, Earl Mann had been released from jail on June 5th, 1998, He had been seen with Tanya later that same day, following Clarence's arrest. Well, I don't care what they say. I know that I'm telling the truth, so I don't care what anybody thinks. Brooks came to my door. She said, please help me. I was not protecting Earl. I don't have no reason to lie about it. God was there with me, and God knows that I did right. In another strange set of coincidences, out of 33 prisons across Ohio and 21 pods split between three blocks at Mansfield Correctional Facility, Earl Mann and Clarence had less than a 1% chance of being incarcerated together. And yet, the two end up three cells apart. Yeah, Earl Mann was a really bad person. And lo and behold, he was in the same block as I was. He had committed these terrible crimes against these children. He fit the profile. And now I started to wonder, why is this guy following me? If Earl Mann is the culprit, he would have certainly heard of Clarence's death. Clarence's case, which has made headlines multiple times over the years. Melinda and her sons can't help but fear for him, just as they once feared for themselves. I was nervous for my dad's sake. You know, I didn't know what Earl Mann knew that we did. I was concerned for my dad's safety. And Clarence Jr. has every reason to be afraid. One afternoon, as the inmates are out in the yard, his father is cornered by Earl Mann, and another prisoner. We're sitting on a little table. Earl Mann started to make small talk with me. Mann struck another inmate with a lock and a sock right in front of me. I couldn't believe what I'd seen. In shock, Clarence immediately walks away and keeps his distance from Earl Mann after that. But Melinda makes him understand that there's no way around it. He's the only one with access to the suspect, and gathering a DNA sample from him is the only way they can ever prove his involvement. Earl Mann is a skinhead and keeps his head shaven, so Clarence's only option is to steal something from him. For months, he stalks him from afar, waiting for an opportunity. Just one day in the summer of 2005, I've seen Earl Mann putting a cigarette butt down on a makeshift ashtray. I got some clean tissue paper and picked the cigarette butt out of the makeshift ashtray. Then he put that evidence into his Bible in order to flatten it, and hide it, so that he could send it out at some point for DNA testing. What's even more amazing is that a couple of days after Earl Mann dropped his cigarette butt and Clarence Elkins picked it up, Earl Mann was transferred to another prison. So if Clarence had not been able to pick up that cigarette butt on that day, that would have been the end of it. Clarence gets the sample to Melinda, who then sends it to the lab. Godsey makes sure the tests are run as soon as possible. Two days later, the results are in. And it came back, and Earl Mann's DNA matched the DNA from the crime scene. no other case where the wrongfully convicted person himself is the one that participated as his own detective. Even after everything Melinda and Clarence have uncovered, the judge rejects their motion yet again. Left with no choice, Godsey takes the case one step higher and presents their findings to Ohio's Attorney General. Now pressured by the state, the judge is forced to reconsider, and two months later, Melinda finally has good news for her husband. Hey Clarence, what are you doing, honey? You okay? You ready to come home? Then get your stuff packed, honey, because you're coming home today. Don't worry, I won't give you your stuff. Hey Clarence! Thank God. I'm very proud of everyone who stepped forward on my behalf for justice. What are you going to do? I don't know. One day at a time. Uh, slow and easy, uh, putting my life back together with my family. The prosecution against Earl Mann lasts another three years. During that time, the trauma shared by Melinda, Clarence, and Brooke reaches its breaking point. The couple, finally reunited after seven years, end up getting a divorce in 2006. All the while, Brooke faces her own predicament. What began as chronic nightmares during childhood grew into complex PTSD during adolescence. struggles to let go of the guilt she still carries over what happened to Clarence. But as August 18th, 2008 approaches, one important moment lies ahead. For the first time, Melinda, Clarence, and Brooke will finally be able to address Earl Mann directly. It's not so kind words. I'm not going to forgive you. It's a difficult thing. I will, but I pray to God that's mercy on your soul. Poet Daunton once spoke about hell as being frozen ice and it's full of steps. And it's tremendous. Now I can only say I find that there seems to be a depth of depravity in you that is beyond understanding. I hate to say this, but I know that you are not fit to be in society with the rest of us, and you will not be. With the case finally closed, Melinda turns the page. She remarries and starts a new life. Ten years later, in an effort to honor her mother, she decides to reopen the industry. After a long investigation, they had started together back in 1998 to reunite the stolen babies of Hicks Clinic with their biological mothers. Melinda Dawson is considered the leader of the so-called Hicks Babies. She's also the group's top sleuth, and for good reason. Melinda garnered international acclaim more than a decade ago, solving her adoptive mother's murder with DNA. Proof that also exonerated her former husband, Clarence Elkins. Once again, she's relying on DNA testing. But this time, to steer her and other Hicks Babies to their birth parents. It was a brick wall. Nobody wanted to help us at all. But it's not the first time I've faced something like that, and I'm confident I'll eventually solve that case too. For Clarence, however, the story did not end there. Adjusting to his new life proved deeply challenging, and the trauma he carried with him made the transition even harder. Seven years in prison took a debilitating toll on Clarence Elkins. He was 35 years old. He was a married father of two when he was wrongfully convicted in 1998 of raping his six-year-old niece and raping and murdering his mother-in-law. He was confined to a maximum security prison. It took time, but Clarence eventually got better. He remarried in 2010 and remains close to Melinda and her family to this day. Yet, he never forgot Brooke. When he learned that she still felt responsible for what happened, he took it upon himself to show her she had nothing to be forgiven for. He never blamed me. Clarence never blamed me. I really would have blamed myself if I were him, because I'd be angry if someone put me in prison for something that I didn't do. She was the daughter that I didn't have. She was just a sweetheart of a child, and I've never had any resentment towards her. In the end, Earl Mann was sentenced to 55 years to life for Judith's murder, but not everyone involved in the case was held accountable. His girlfriend, Tanya Brazil, who pushed Brooke to accuse her own uncle never faced any consequences before her death in 2024. Clarence, however, was eventually able to hold the system accountable, settling with the state of Ohio and the Barberton police for over $6 million, even though no amount of money could ever make up for the years he lost. It's very difficult, very sad at times. It's not like it used to be, but at the same time, I gotta move on. And that's our goal. Our goal is to move on and try to rebuild our lives. 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