The Game Is Rigged. Here’s How You Win Anyway (High Agency + Start Before You’re Ready) | Investor Kofi Ampadu

it's giving directors cut it's giving really it's giving behind the scenes it's giving good lighting sometimes the rules of the games are a bit rigged against you but you knew that going in I don't think there's any surprise that founders of color are underfunded I think as adults we get into this mindset of we have to be perfect before we do anything and then if perfection is always the aim you're more than likely not going to try new things kofi wrote down his plan you can have it in your head you can talk about it with your friends but when you write it down it makes it so much more real he wrote it down and then he emailed it to his best friend maybe do that two steps write it down and email it to your friend because then they'll have email to yourself or email it to us yeah we are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters and we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy what up what up what up tiger fam welcome to this next episode of tiger sisters podcast directors cut edition we're bringing you the best of the best our favorite interviews over the past two years on tiger sisters podcast and these are the interviews that you guys told us in the comments that you absolutely love but you guys want something more so here we're going to bring the interviews and the behind the scenes directors cuts of the best takeaways that jean and i have of these conversations and we are filming these episodes with the benefit of time and looking back on these episodes and our new experiences and having kind of like had time to reflect on the learnings from these episodes and bring you guys a little bit of a fresh take and if you guys haven't noticed we are in an amazing new studio shout out to Spotify it's a little dramatic it's a little sexy and it's perfect for the director's cut series so i highly recommend watching these directors cut episodes all the way through kind of just chronologically because we're going to show the interview with our guest and then after that jean and i will have the conversation the takeaways and some of the reflections of the episode but if you've watched this interview recently it's totally fine to use your scrubber bar and skip directly to the director's cut um after the interview okay this episode of the tiger sisters directors cuts is with kofi ompadu who is a longtime investor a former founder and i just love this conversation because kofi is such a cool guy because he is extremely accomplished but he's also very honest with us and he's very like practical measured and symmetrical yeah yeah yeah i love it because throughout the episode he gives us a ton of frameworks that you can apply both to career and also to your personal life at one part of the interview he literally goes through his framework of how to figure out if he's having a good year good month good week good day and it's kind of amazing to see someone's brain work like that and be like oh i can definitely take this and apply it to my own life as well yeah and like spoiler he is adding data to this calculation every single day it's incredible yeah last thing i'll say before we get into the interview is that i really admire kofi's tenacity like you can just hear in the story that he tells and the way that he lives his life and also has created his career i just love that he doesn't let anything stop him and when i was watching this interview back i was just like yes i need more of that energy because whenever there's an obstacle in front of kofi he is not deterred by that and he figures out a way to go around it and just seeing someone with that grit and resilience again like i need kind of this interview on repeat for me and my life because it reminds me that i can do anything that i put my mind to yeah and one thing you'll hear in this episode is how intentional he is and how he has had like a plan for himself from a very young age that he shared with his best friend that his best friend then brings up and's like look you shared this like list of life goals for yourself and you achieved all of them basically he's doing everything he said he wanted to do over the last decade yeah and like that's kind of like you know a cheeky little line i have is that like my biggest flex is i'm doing everything i said i would do be like kofi my drop but be like kofi be like the tiger sisters yeah already so let's get into the interview welcome to the tiger sisters podcast where we talk about money power and love hi kofi hi could you please introduce yourself in your own words to our audience yeah hi everyone i'm kofi am pedo i'm a partner at in gson horowitz where i have the pleasure of leading the talent times opportunity initiative it is a program where we focus on finding founders who have the talent and drive to build big businesses that i'm excited to be here that's your being here wait vibe check first you have good days bad days is this is this a good day is this a good day to film actually it's a great day because i'm here with you guys oh good i'm so relieved to hear that because i didn't want to mess up your streak or yeah yeah it's a it's a green day for us kofi on our podcast we talk a lot about intersectionality so your ganaan american you're an immigrant and also a person of color you've had to navigate many rooms where people don't look like you in the startup world in the vc world was there a turning point where you decided i'm going to play this game differently i think i actually use my different hyphen hyphens as an advantage i think oftentimes as a person of color when you're in the room you probably work the hardest to be in that room right so you know you work the hardest to be in that room and i also think about it as a chance to change minds where it's what stereotype can i debunk when i'm in that room and i think for me it's understanding and it's always i always tell founders this it's you decide to play a game yeah you know the rules of the game unfortunately sometimes the rules of the games are a bit rigged against you but you knew that going in right i don't think there's any surprise that specifically speaking about founders i don't think there's any surprise that okay founders of color are underfunded right so i think it does you know good to start playing a game and a while you're playing a game you're complaining about the rules that you knew were already rigged right so i think you show up to the game and you just say okay i know the rules are not set up for me to win but i'm going to win despite and as i'm going to try to build some allies along the way right and so for me it's always about understanding the game that i'm trying to play and then playing playing within the rules but trying to change the rules along the way right because it's really hard to i think decide you want to play a game and then your rookie year your accent the commission of the of the league to change the rules it's like who are you but you haven't done anything so i think as you make progress you then start using your bullet puppet to make change i'm going to win despite exactly wow that's very powerful and i feel like now you're in that position now where you have the bully puppet and you're making change for everyone else who's playing the game yeah that's what we're trying to do i think it's really important to highlight the wins when i think about founders of color one of the things i noticed is oftentimes there's this unfair weight on founders where i know it's a high failure rate environment right i know a large number of companies are not going to make it to the side but as a founder it's sort of you started to play the game you you start realizing okay the idea that i'm bringing it to market maybe it's not working i've done several pivots but you're so resilient and you don't want to give up because you feel like if you give up you're stopping maybe the next black founder maybe the next female founder from being funded and i talked to founders and i did that's not necessarily your responsibility i think your responsibility as a founder is to just do everything you said you were going to do there's so many founders that say i'm going to do x y and z and they actually don't do x y and z they start doing a bc right and what happens is you start to lose trust but if as a founder you decide you did everything that you set out to do and it didn't work out it didn't work out i think investors are astute enough to know that not every company is going to work out right so i don't think founders need to put that weight on themselves and that's one of the conversations that i constantly have with founders to say okay resilience is a great thing but it's also a double edged sword where you can be too resilient and then start compounding your opportunity cost yeah i feel that's almost like a really good framework to go into a lot of different situations where the two things you said were like one recognize the game for what it is like understand the rules and the bounds and like the same rules don't necessarily apply to you and then also you're kind of saying just like get that understanding in your head and then get it out of the way like don't be thinking about it all the time for everything that you do but just like know that going in and then you can act within the rules that are applied to you yeah like that yeah it's a distraction right if yeah if you you're thinking about all the time it's unfair it's unfair it's like yeah that's a fact that's unfair right you're playing a game how can you eventually make it fair for yourself? - It resonates so deeply, I think more than you know. It resonates really deeply with me and also the ethos of our podcast. Because one of the goals of Tiger Sisters podcast is to really break open, like traditionally gate-kept institutions, like tech and VC and also like Stanford and Harvard. We're like, if you don't know someone, who knows someone, who knows someone, like how the heck are you supposed to figure out the game of everything, of like applications and recommendations and then when you're trying to, for interviews, it's really difficult on the outside. And so I think creating more opportunities for people, yeah, that's a really powerful thing. So Kofi, one question that we like to ask our guests is for a piece of advice that they'd give their younger self. So I'm about to enter my 30s, jeans in her mid 30s. So when you're looking back to your 29 year old self, what would you tell him? - So I journal a lot and I was actually talking to a friend and they were just like, man, you're doing everything you said you were gonna do. And I was like, what are you talking about? And they sent me a doc that I wrote in 2012. I sent them a VC plan and the plan was very, very close to what I'm doing now. - VC hasn't like the start-up of you? - Yeah, so it's like, well-- - Like you. - I sent them a plan around a fund that I was gonna start. And it was very, very close to what I'm doing. It's like 85% overlap to what I'm doing. And I kind of thought to myself, I'm like, what happened along the way? It felt like it took me too long to start doing this thing, 'cause I took different paths, like I took a job as a consultant, right? So my advice, like my younger self, would be, like do the thing right now, right? There's no perfect, I think I was looking for like the perfect time to do something. And often it's so easy to convince yourself, let's tell yourself a story, right, where I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna do that and then I'm gonna come back and do this thing. As opposed to what's the thing you wanna do now? Like why don't you just like do it? So like read them back, like looking at that plan and then like flipping back through my journal and seeing how this is the thing I wanted to do. But I took these like roundabout turns to get there. I would just say just try to do the thing now and I think you're always gonna be rewarded for failure, right? Like if you put your best foot forward, like people are gonna see you trying, right? And you may get a shot like a lot sooner. - Mm-hmm. - I have this one professor who says the two most dangerous words are not now. So if people keep saying not now, they keep pushing it later and later and it becomes not ever. I think to give yourself some credit, you're doing what you said you would do. - That's crazy. - Yeah, that's why. - It was like bonkers. I was just like, why? - I was just like, wait, what? - You manifested. - Yeah, and it made me happy because there was a time where, 'cause you know, I went from being a founder and now I'm a VC and I'm like, did I just like leave the founder dream too early and move over to the other side of the table? Did I just become like an investor because it's like the new hip thing that everyone wants to do? So it didn't make me feel good about my life decisions. I was like, okay, this was the plan. (laughing) - Like deep down I wanted this more than a decade ago. Yeah, yeah, that also, that's a good friend that you had someone, a friend that you were so close with that you sent them like your life plan. - My best friend, yeah, we share, like I tell them everything, so. - You love that. - Well, almost everything. (laughing) - So guys, for subscribing, because that means you'll be notified when a new episode of Tiger Sisters drops. Alrighty, now back to the show. Okay, Kofi, back to your founder days now. So not the like LinkedIn version, but like the real version. So let's start with an open question. Tell us, where did your founder journey first begin? - Founder journey first began when I realized I didn't really like my job, I think. - Classic. (laughing) - And then looking back, I felt like I was always a founder. During my time as a strategy consultant, I just didn't enjoy what I was doing, and a friend threw me a lifeline. He said, I have this idea to start a beverage company, and I want you to join me as the co-founder CEO. - Yeah. - That was the only way I was leaving my job. I needed to be CEO. (laughing) No, but I was like, man, it's the lifeline I needed. And the ball just started rolling. And then in retrospect, sort of like looking back, I felt like I've always been a founder. I remember, and I'm gonna date myself a bit, but when I was in high school, I had a bunch of different side hustles, right? I would burn CDs and sell them to classmates, so I was making mixed tapes. And then one of my side hustles where it was, we would actually, my senior year of high school, you can go off campus to go get lunch. I would take food orders from underclassmen, and I would just charge them in delivery fee. But-- - Dordash, who? - Wait. (laughing) So looking back, I actually-- - Invented. - Dordash. - I actually think I came up with Dordash. Just kidding, but it's just sort of having that, in the back of my mind of, hey, I wanna do something that is not restricted to, I'm doing a nine to five, and that's what entrepreneurship really gave me. So my first company was H2Mellon. We started a beverage company that was a health and wellness beverage company, so this is, think back in a day where you can sell a 12 ounce bottle of juice for $10, and no one will bat an eye. And it just got me in a game, and I don't wanna leave the game. I love it. I love being around entrepreneurs that inspires me and wanna do more. - Yeah. It sounds like you really had that entrepreneurial spirit from a very young age, and you've mentioned previously that your family or your dad ran a mom and pop shop. Did you feel like that entrepreneurial spirit or growing up around that influenced you? - Might have, right? So I think when I think back to my dad being an entrepreneur, I felt like he was an entrepreneur because he needed to be. He was in classically well-educated, right? And when he moved to the States, he was a cab driver, hated being a cab driver and wanted to do something else, and that's something else was, I'm going to start a small mom and pop shop, and he's still doing it now, right? And it's been his path out. And sort of like looking back on it, he's happy. I remember having a conversation with him a few months ago where he's about to be 70 next year, and he's still working. But I thought he was working to live, right? And so I was just like, when are you gonna retire? He's like, what do you tell my love what I'm doing? And I was like, can you tell me about a typical day? And when he described his day, I was like, holy shit, he's retired, like he's just sort of doing something he loves, and it's just motivating him and keeping him going. - That's the dream, that's the role model. - My role model, I have these professors at Stanford who are like in their 70s, well into their 70s, mid late 70s, and they're still teaching. And I'm like, that's what I aspire to do to find something that drives me so much that I can continue working because I love it and 'cause I want to. - Yeah, like he loves it, and it's just, it's so inspiring to see where it's just like how can, finding something that you can do for the rest of your life, I think it's the mission that we're all on, and I'm happy he found his. - Do you feel like you found that? - I think so, so for me, I love being around founders, I love being around people who constantly have ideas. It, no two days are the same, bus, and I think that's what inspires me. I have a quest to learn. So whenever I, it's a cheat code, right? So I think as an investor, you are meeting with a founder, even if it's a founder you're not going to invest in, you're learning about something completely new. And oftentimes you're meeting with somebody that's dealing with it on a everyday basis, so you're just accelerating your learning curve. And I love that, and then when my founders come to us with issues that they're having, we get to roll out sleeves up and like work with them on trying to figure out those issues. - It's like you get to have a different job day-to-day week to week. - Yeah, and I don't have the stress of being a founder. (laughing) - Wait a minute, this was sounding pretty good. - No, no, it's a good stress, right? So it's when I was a founder, it was a time in my life where I made the least amount of money, but it was probably the happiest. And the reason I was the happiest is whenever an issue came up, I felt like I was in control of either solving that issue. Oftentimes I think when you are an employee, when an issue comes up, you may not completely be the one who can solve it, right? But as a founder, you have complete agency. You can either hire somebody to help you solve it. You can go learn a thing, to solve the thing, right? So there's so many things that I think being a founder deflexibility that it gives you that. I love, and I think for me, me the role that I have with TXO when I think back to it. So TXO started in 2020. I joined the firm in 2021. TXO was still being built from a foundational standpoint. And when I got in there, I was able to help build a foundation. So I felt like it's-- I still got to flex some entrepreneurial muscles, right? And I think that's what keeps me excited about what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis. And we're constantly always trying to figure out what can we do next. And we consider ourselves a startup within the firm. We were constantly trying to figure out what can we do next to ensure that we're creating value for our founders. Yeah. I feel like this is a very revealing answer because it's so clear that you are a very high agency person. That's how I would describe it. I feel like having known you for not that long, that's probably one of your most defining characteristics. I would agree. So in all seriousness, it's all about what can I do to change something, right? And I think it's been really helpful for my mental health, where there's so many things in the world that you can stress out about. And so whenever I find myself stressing out about something, I don't like the feeling of being unhappy and being stressed. So whenever I find myself stressing out about something, I ask myself that one foundational question, right? It's like, what am I doing to change it? What can I do to change it? And if you drill down and you can't do anything to change it, oftentimes it's like, all right, so don't stress out about it. Because if you're literally-- That's the way it is, right? Yeah. You're impacting your mental health for something that you can't make any change to, right? Oftentimes there is something we can do to change it, right? It may feel small in my new, but I think a lot of actions start from something that is smaller in my new. I think it's also really powerful to be surrounded by people who adopt a similar mindset, like I am the captain of my ship mindset. Everything gets harder because you make a change in the short-term things get harder, but then in the long-term things, usually, if you make the right decision, get better. But it's fun being around those people. Yeah, it's like folks who understand you have to optimize for the long-term when you want last and change. In the beginning, it's not going to be fun, right? It's like, hard now. I think it's just like hard now, easy later, right? So I think conceptually anything in life that's worth having. In the beginning, it's just going to suck to do it, right? So if you want to get in better physical shape, in the beginning, you go to the gym. You're not going to see results. It's going to suck if you need to wake up early. You're not going to be used to doing that. But once you start seeing results, when you start getting better shape, it's going to be easier for you to say, I'm going to wake up earlier. So I think it's always kind of thinking about it from a standpoint of what do I need to do now to optimize for the long-term? So while you're bootstrapping, you told us that you moved in with your sister. [LAUGHTER] We'd like to go there because we live together. So we're bootstrapping, and we live together. I can't work, and this is my sister. So we kind of see where I'm going here. I mean, was that sustainable? Did you have to put your pride aside or was it just really easy? How did that feel? Yeah, I had to put my pride aside. Just to kind of paint the picture, I had the apartment in Manhattan that we all pre-gamed that, when we were going to go out. So I had the balcony. I had all the amenities-- Lord is seeing the window back there. And I know when we started. [LAUGHTER] So I think for me, it was also me telling myself, I'm all in. If this is a thing you say you care about, the thing you say you want to grow, what are you willing to give up for it? For me, it was like, it's pride, right? Like, hey, I'm moving back in with-- I would have moved in with my parents if they lived closer. And being very serious because I think it was my way of saying, I'm all in. And I think being all in means like, how do you reduce your burn? And I think as a founder, I often kind of think through-- if you're a founder and you raise money and you hire a team, you should probably pay yourself the least. You should pay yourself enough to live, right? But you shouldn't pay yourself enough to save enough money for vacation because your payoff is going to be at the end of the journey. And so, when all in, and then I'm so fortunate that I have a supportive family. My sister was like, sure, like, move in. And I think for her, too, it was like, free child care. Because my niece was-- I think my niece was maybe two or three at the time. And it was a great time for me. I got a chance to get closer to my sister, my brother-in-law, and they actually also used my presence to as a carrot for my niece. So I literally lived in a basement. I lived in a basement. And if my niece was acting out there, like, you can't go hang out with Uncle Kofi unless you eat your vegetables or you do this, right? So it was like, they just liked having me in their space. I also made sure to contribute when I was there, right? So it was-- I may not be paying rent, but OK, how can I, maybe, buy groceries, do this and that? And then I would-- during the day, I wasn't there. I was at my core in space. So all of that kind of worked out, but I think I made that decision just because I needed to show myself that I was all in. It was really hard to hold two truths, right? I can't be the guy who has a nice Manhattan apartment that friends come to pre-game at. And then I'm talking about how it's really hard to build this company because I need money when I can literally take money out of that apartment by not paying rent. Yeah, and then using it to build the company. It's walking the walk. And it's about sacrifice. What are you willing to do? Yeah, it's a good story to tell when you're pitching a VC, right? Yeah. Like, how all in are you? And you said, I have a pattern move in with my sister. I live in a basement now. [LAUGHTER] I feel like my window is this big. Limited sunlight. It's very heartwarming to hear about your support system and your relationship with your family and your sister. I want to turn the conversation to your eternal co-founder, your wife, who you've mentioned before, is a really important support system and has gone through all of it with you from the beginning. Yeah, I think it's-- so I'm so lucky. It's a cheat code. Because even if you have a co-founder, it's sometimes you need to complain about your co-founder, right? And it's nice to have an out. Wait, what? Never. It hasn't happened yet. You need to have an outlet, right? And for me, I was super, super fortunate where-- she's a journalist, has interest in photography. So she was taking product pictures for us. She would be helping us with, like, our social media post. So it was-- I felt like she was also all in. I think it's important to surround yourself with people who don't second guess the decision you make, because they see you as a whole human who can make adult decisions, and then they will support you. And obviously, if you're going to fall, they'll be there to help pick you back up. And I've been very fortunate to have that where the peaks and valleys of entrepreneurial journey has been something that I've gone through with her. And she is someone I can constantly talk to about what I'm doing. And I think what also makes our relationship, I think, really cool, is she isn't a profession that has very little to know overlap with what I'm doing, right? She's a documentary and a journalist, a photographer. And you like that? Yeah, it's perfect, right? I think the reason I think it's perfect is she also gives me a different perspective, right? Because I think oftentimes we can be so homogenous in our networks where it's an echo chamber. She gives me fresh perspectives, right? When I'm talking about something that I've seen, she may ask that question of like, I can be talking about a company that I think is interesting. And she gives me like the regular-- quote unquote, like regular person's point of view, right? Because I think sometimes we're so surrounded by technology or commercial technology. We don't understand, like folks who may not be living technology 24/7, and it gives me that perspective. Why do you need AI for that? Exactly. And it's like, what do you mean? Exactly, so she's not a techno optimist, which is good. Because it gives me-- we have healthy debates. So we don't argue we debate. So we have a lot of like healthy debates, right? Where we actually even started doing this thing where we do brown bag lunches. Where you would research. Yeah, so you would research. It's like a topic that she cares about. She don't research it. And then pitch it to me. And I'll research something, and I'll pitch it to her. So it's like me telling her, it can be about AI. And the benefits I think AI is going to have in society, where I think the ends justifies the means sort of presentation. And then she'll do the same. And I get to learn and have different perspectives. Because I'm immersed and surrounded by technology all day and just having somebody who is maybe a little suspect [BLANK_AUDIO] Technology, right, is helpful and keeps me grounded in how I look at technology and how I look at what the future is going to potentially look like. And so this could be any topic any topic. So I like the last one I did was it wasn't even about technology. It was I just wanted to look at francophone countries in Africa and why their currency was pegged to the French system. Right, it's just like, okay, why is this thing? So it's like whenever we are like, why is this thing? Why don't you research it and tell me? And then it's her role to like ask you questions, ask me questions, and then when she's also interested in something she'll research it, and then I'll ask questions about it. So it's like our way of like teaching each other stuff. Wow, I've never heard of something like this. We're kind of dorky. We have that at work. I would call that a brown bag lunch in a professional setting or like a nerd date with your wife. I love that. I can also tell how curious you both are. And how there's if I'm understanding correctly, like so much learning between the two of you learning from each other and also teaching. I think I mentioned there's very little overlap in our professions, but then there's the big overlap is we have to ask questions. Right. So for her as a journalist or a documentarian before she puts resources into doing a documentary, it's like, is this thing like a legit thing? How do I figure out if it's like a legit thing? Let me question the folks right in the same thing as an investor. Before we put resources into anything, it is this company, a legit company. Let's ask questions to figure it out. So it's like trying to like we have that ability to ask each other questions to drill down to figure out, OK, should we invest time resources and money into anything? That's your shared interest. And I feel like your love language is like teaching each other new thing and like learning new things together. Wow, not just psychoanalyze you, but your love language might be that. Yeah, I don't know, but I never heard it put that way, but I like it. That is so interesting. Well, something that I've been thinking about recently, so we talk about money, power, and love on our podcast because they're also interrelated. You have the career stuff that you do, professional stuff, you know, you also have a partner that's such a big part of your life when I think about the partner that I'm looking for. Someone who's also very curious about life has a growth mindset so we can learn from one another. Yeah, because your partner, I guess, can be your lifelong learning partner too. And that's kind of what you guys have created for each other. Yeah, think about it when the zombie apocalypse happens and you're still, you're a little each people left. You don't want to be bored with that person, so it's true. Wow, new, new standard. That's really created. The zombie apocalypse standard, yes. Do you guys want to know a wisdom that my mother told me about growing up? Yeah. If you enjoyed our Tiger Sisters podcast episode on parenting and motherhood with our hilarious guests, Natasha Legero and Sabrina Jalice, make sure to check out their podcast Good Enough. New episodes drop every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Together, they explore the messy and funny middle ground between old school and modern parenting. Okay, now back to the show. Kofi, we've talked a lot about startups. You founded your startups, you advised startups. You also seem to kind of run your own life like a startup in certain ways. So tell us about the system you created where you track like good days, bad days, and how do we implement it? Yeah. So I came up with this in late 2019 and actually started doing it in 2020. So 2019, when the year ended, I was just like, was this year a successful year? Like oftentimes I think we, everyone does like a new, a new year's resolution, right? And it's this year, I want to accomplish X, Y, and Z. And if you don't accomplish X, Y, and Z, at the end of the year, you just assume maybe the year was a failure. And I felt like, I didn't feel like a failure, but I felt like I failed. And I wanted a better way of tracking if I failed or not. And oftentimes our resolutions are tied to like professional achievements, right? But that's just one part I feel like of your life. And this was a very fortuitous time because I started it before the pandemic. I said every single day I'm going to measure my days to figure out if I won, I won the day. And I measure them on three things. Physical, did I work out, did I eat well, right? So physical health and then mental health is, am I stressed? Did I go to bed happy? And then the last thing I measured was like my daily task. And every day I had three things I wanted to complete, right? At the end of each day, I wouldn't measure it. And then at the end of each week, I actually was doing, I was publicly tracking it on the platform formally known as Twitter. And I would put a week one, I won six days out of seven. And I was also pulling on a spreadsheet and I would have like little notes next to it. And just to remind me of like if there was like a bad, if I had a really bad week, kind of summarizing why I had a bad week. And what I realized was I was really winning each year. And I think for most people, if they take that approach, you're drilling down on a day by day basis. So if you are measuring each day, you realize, man, I'm losing each day. You're going to take action to figure out, okay, what can I change? And I think I used to be a measurement consultant. So what doesn't get tracked, doesn't get measured, doesn't get tracked. Right. So if it's like, you're going through the, you're going through the week and you at the end of the week, you're like, man, I had a bad week. And I'm like, what made it a bad week, right? And you can't really pinpoint it. That's a problem because how can you then change it for the future? And so for the last five years now, just been tracking that. And it's been super, super helpful. And I also do like the year over the year. Yeah. And because I want to make sure I'm progressing, I'm up into the right, you know, I'm a VC. We need growth, right? I aggressively like looking at the numbers on the spreadsheet. And I'm like, okay, I need to, I need to be better. Like what I, I'm not eating well. I need to eat better. I need to make sure that I actually put better daily task that I can complete, right? Because part of it too was just like, if you think about trying to accomplish things for the day, I think we're always more ambitious than our abilities are, right? So you make this big ass to-do list. Yeah. And you've realized, oh, I can't really complete any of this stuff. So what I actually do is it's like, what are the three things? And this is typically work related. What are the three things that matter for me for work today? And making sure I get that done, I typically get more than three things done. But at least after I crossed the three off, I know I've had a good day. I'm so care. I have so many questions. Oh, my God. I mean, the like the PM in me is going crazy. But I'm like, okay, were there any like seasonal trends that you noticed? So part of the trend that I noticed was it's like obviously with like COVID. The thing that was happening with like BLM, it was, there was like my mental state was just like mush, right? I would, like the physical, it's also for me. It's a bit of a cheat code because I naturally haven't been working out every day for a very, very long time. So it's just, it's habit-forming. It's part of my day. My routine, I actually plan things around working out just because that is my self-care. But it's everything that was happening from a macro. It was sometimes just like really tough for me to, for me to deal with, right? And obviously I have a partner and how she deals with it also impacts my mental, my mental aspect. And so that impacts that would impact it. And then that's when I started axing myself, things like, what can I do, right? So instead of me being stressed out, what can I do about it? So I do remember during BLM protests, I reached out to TechCrunch and I wrote an article. An article that I did for TechCrunch was, I actually looked at, and this is just me being a nerd again, right? I looked at a bunch of like prominent startup podcasts and looked at the guests that people have on those podcasts. And I realized like black people were underrepresented as guests, right? So I wrote a blog post called Black Minds Matter. And the goal of that blog post was to say, 'cause I think around that time, everyone was trying to figure out, okay, what can we do to make sure that America is a more equitable place, right? So for me, my recommendation was, I think there are black people that can probably talk about products. There are black people that can talk about engineering and that can talk about investing, right? Let's figure out how to get them as guests on some of these prominent podcasts because I think it also changes the perception of like a whole race, right? So that was like around that time, that was my, instead of me being stressed out about it, what can my solve be? I think that is so cool because that is literally the exact example of you using your bully pulpit and you finding like a very specific thing that you could do that was in your control, that was specific to your area. expertise to make a difference and then also influence other people and then also I think it's really cool because it's a way where you took all the learnings, all the metrics etc. And then you're like, okay, how do I how do I come up with like some sort of conclusion or like learning from everything that I've been tracking because you know, I can't control the outside world, but the outside world is affecting me. So then what can I do to like flip it around to like make a change in this situation and then you actually did something about it. That's so cool. That's like the ideal use of data. Yeah. I'm a nerd too. I think it's also, I think it's also important to mention, I'm under no like delusion that you're going to have a hundred percent like happy days, right? Yeah. That'll be kind of weird, right? Then you wouldn't know what happiness is if you've never experienced like a low point. And so I think it's also important to make space, one of the things that I'm trying to be better at. And this is trying to make space for, I just heard this phrase recently, make space for your failures. Right. So it's just like, okay, like it's okay to like wallow. And like you missed, you had a goal, you missed a goal, it's okay to be sad about it, right? For some time, I'm not saying just never be sad about anything, right? And having, sort of having that practice of, okay, this thing didn't go the way I wanted it to go. The go, I'm bummed out about it. I'm going to be bummed about it for like a day, right? One of the things that I'm trying to be better at is time block being bummed out about something that didn't go well, right? So it's just like, okay, I'm going to be upset about it for like a day. And then after the next, after that day, trying to figure out like, how do we move forward, right? Because you kid, it's so easy to spiral. And I think it's so easy to spiral and make an excuse, excuses are the cheapest things to buy, right? Like, it's so easy to make an excuse. So it's like, how can I figure out, like, okay, I'm bummed out, this thing didn't work out. And myself, like, the day to just sit on the couch watching that flicks, like, eat, like unhealthy food, right? And just bum out about it. But then the next day, let me move forward. Because I think oftentimes, unless it's like extreme circumstances, you probably are just in the same spot you are in before that thing didn't work out, right? And some circumstances, like, if you lose a job, you're set back, right? And then if you didn't, if it's not like a job loss, you're probably not set back, you're just probably in the same spot. So it's like, okay, how do I just pick up from where I'm at to ref configure and move forward? I definitely want to adopt this framework or this model and try it out for myself. But something I feel like I need to be careful with. My mindset, I'm really, I don't like failure, no one likes failure. But then I feel like just, this isn't me being honest. I was just like, I want to be completely honest when I'm measuring my days. And so that I'm not like, was I happy? And you know, kind of like stretch it a little bit so that I can meet the metric. Do you know what I mean? It's like, you have to be super honest with yourself when you're doing this or else it can feel like you're failing over and over. I want to challenge that a little bit, the failure piece. So I think failure is actually like healthy. So if you are approaching a situation with the intention of, you're not going to fail, right, is you're probably going to move a lot slower, right? That is why literally large companies don't do anything worthwhile, right? Like really, really large and common companies. That's because it's like, nah, what if we try this thing and it fails, right? And if you ever watch like kids like learning how to play basketball or doing anything, it's oftentimes a person teaching them is just like, you got to go faster. If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough, right? If you're very, very careful because we, I think as adults, we get into this mindset of we have to be perfect before we do anything, right? And then if perfection is always the aim, you're more than likely not going to try a new thing. Because as soon as you try a new thing, you're like, I'm failing at this and I'm going through that right now. I'm learning, I'm learning French and read a book by Adam Grant and what one of the things he mentioned was the people who are really good at learning a language are people who the first day to learn a language, they start using it, right? So it's like, we, we, we, so it's like you start using it right away. And part of like using the language is you're going to embarrass yourself. Yeah. You're going to fail, right? But it's like we, and I know I'm, I'm, I'm going, I'm literally going through this right now where it's just like, I'm always like trying to pick the perfect spot to try it. And if you keep picking a perfect spot, you're never going to get the perfect spot, right? So it's like, I do think it's like part of the process of achieving like success is like you just got to move fast, just don't break things. Yeah. Sounds like you need to plan some trips to these franco phone countries, that's on a list. We have like a fun, high, like a high energy segment, so we're going to try, which we haven't tried before. Yeah. So I'm really getting picked. Thank you. We're just, we're not afraid to fail. Yeah. We're just going to back. You like that? Yeah. Full circle. I'm fast with it. The next segment is called true or false. And basically what we're going to do is going to, we're going to redo some hot takes from the startup world. And then you tell us, in your opinion, if it's true or false, and why? And they're going to be like fun silly, like spicy, you know, so feel free to be fun silly and spicy with that not already spicy, even more. So the first one, coffee, true or false, if you are not working 90 hours a week, then you don't want it bad enough as a founder. False. You're going to work hard. And part of I think working hard doesn't necessarily mean you need to work long hours. Right. There are going to be times where you work in maybe 90 hour weeks, but I don't think it needs to constantly be 90 hour weeks. There are ways. I also think it's, it's important to take breaks here and there, right? It's, I, we just got back from like a founder's retreat and one of the things that we tell our founders on a founder retreat is building a company is a marathon, right? And that doesn't mean it's a marathon so you go slow. The people who win marathons are still running at a pretty fast pace, right? So there are going to be some miles where you're running at a five minute pace. There are going to be some miles where you just happen to be running at a seven minute pace, right? Because you're not always going to, they're going to be some weeks, you don't always have it, right? But I don't think like there's a consistency of work in like 90 hour weeks, you're going to need to work hard. And that's something that you just need to get your mind ready for. Mm. Love that. Okay. Kofi, there are two co-founders that are either dating or married. Is that a huge red flag? Man. So it's not, it's, it's a red flag. I wouldn't say huge, right? It is. There's a, yeah, there's a, there's a risk, right? I think as an investor when you're investing, you invest in risk, right? And you just need to know what the risk is, right? I don't think any investor invests in anything, thinking it's a risk-free thing, right? Like you're investing something, trying to figure out what the risk is. And I think when it comes to married co-founders, it's okay, something can happen personally. And then they break up and then what happens to the company, right? So it's, all it means is you're just going to have to ask them a lot of awkward questions before making an investment. So it is, it is a flag and we need to like drill down on that flag. Okay. I like that. You're like, what can I do about it? I like to risk this. How do I do risk your relationship? Okay. Kofi, true or false, why combinator is overrated and low-key a scam? I would say false. I say this because I feel like why combinator truly has like product market fit, right? I, I say there's a joke where it's if why combinator decided, probably today, that, hey, we'll take 5% of your company and we won't give you any money. We'll still apply, right, because I think one of the things that you can ever discredit them for is the network that they built, right? At the end of the day, if you are building a SaaS product and you join why combinator as a potential that all the successful why combinator companies can be a customer. So even if it's just for to build traction with customers, right, to just get people to use your product to give you feedback, there's, I think there's value in it. Yeah. And already joke, by the way, Kofi, pun intended. If you enjoyed our recent episode on communication and speaking with Matt Abraham's, you're going to love Think Fast Talk Smart, his own podcast that comes out twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays. Kofi, true or false? Ivy League degrees are are useless in startups. - True. And I think the reason is, and this is the reason we have TXO, we think anybody can build a company. It's not, I don't think you should, you don't have a right to build a company, or a right to raise money just because you have a degree from a specific college, right? What that college does is it probably signals that you may be a high intelligent person, which is great, right? But not everyone who is smart, went to an Ivy League school, not everyone who's capable has talent, went to an Ivy League school, so I don't think it's a prerequisite for being a founder. - Kofi, true or false? If you don't know how to code, don't start a tech company. - False, I think, especially now, there are all these AI tools that you can use. I would say if you don't know how to code, what's the thing that you know how to do that makes you valuable to whatever thing that you're trying to build, right? You don't want to be that person as an idea. And then you either are using, you get a co-founder or an early engineer, and that engineer is the only valuable thing in your company, right, so I think if you don't know how to code, like what else are you doing to make your company like super valuable, do you know how to sell, right? Do you know how to market? Do you know how to, do you just know how to hire people? Are you a people person and you can be able to hire like the best talent to come onto your team? But I don't think it's the only thing you need to know how to do to be able to start a company. - Okay, Kofi, true or false? Raising money is easier if you're a white guy in a hoodie. - I would say true. And that's just based on the data, right? But I think even white guys in a hoodie probably have a hard time raising money, right? I think raising money is hard for anyone, 'cause you're like asking people for money is not easy. So I think it's true, but it's probably hard for them to, or at least if you ask them, they think it's hard. - Well, radical empathy. - I've never been a white guy in a hoodie, so I can't speak from firsthand experience. Building in public is just performative BS. - I'll say false. There's an advantage to building in public. You can get customer discovery. You can get real time feedback. And then you can also just signal to people around how fast you can move, right? I think oftentimes investors may be interested in an investment, someone that can move really fast, right? So if each time you post about something you're doing, I'm like, man, this person was just at B. Not there already, at F, right? Soon they're gonna be at Z. So this is a, it's a move in training, and I wanna get on to that move in training. - You. (laughing) - And God, he said that answer, 'cause that's what we're doing. - We build in public. - Unless you're making a match, a company. Go behind a closed boss, now I'm just kidding. - Oh, so he did get spicy. You got a little spicy. Okay, I think this is the last one. Kofi, true or false? Most pitch-dacks are just really well-designed lies. - False? And the reason I'm saying false is if you're starting off a relationship which an investor-founder relationship, an investor-founder connection is a relationship. The first thing you're telling me, which is sending me a pitch deck, and if it's a lie, that's not a good start to a relationship. So I do think founders put a lot of care into, or I would hope founders put a lot of care into like what they're putting into their decks, right? And then if it's a lie, most of the times we're gonna figure out during the diligence process that logo you have on there, it's not actually a customer. - I just wanna say, Kofi, thank you for bringing your whole self today and for being so honest, sharing with us your life philosophy, your life framework, your life systems. It's just, it means so much to me to us. And also, I know you said a lot of things today that will be deeply meaningful to our listeners, so. So thank you. - No, thanks for having me, this was fun. - This is amazing. I think it was really powerful too. I think reflecting on a lot of your personal answers and how it relates to your personal life and also to the career aspect, I really will take a lot away from the frameworks that you've talked about, and the fact that you've been in the trenches yourself, building your own startup, and now with TXO, you're helping people navigate through the trenches is really, really powerful. - Yeah, thank you. - And so speaking of which, where can people follow you? And where can people learn more about what you're doing and TXO? - Yep, you can follow me on X at the Kofi Ampedu on X. And then you can follow TXO on X and Instagram at A16ZTXO. - Great, and we'll have all of those linked in the descriptions of this video. Thanks so much, Kofi. - No, thanks for having me. - Yeah, and to our listeners, if anything that Kofi said made you pause or reflect or think deeply or yell at your phone, and please like, comment, and subscribe. Rate us five stars on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts, and share it with a friend. - All right, thanks. - Okay, guys, that was our interview with Kofi. - Damn. - So, Shri, what is your first thought? - I wrote it down, and I'm gonna try my best to try to articulate it, but I have so many thoughts, and you know I have to speak it well. - Okay, okay, okay. - Let it out. - So, I love when Kofi talked about the rules of the game being rigged, period. You know, there are institutions, there are industries. The rules of the game are not, may not be set up for you. And I think I've, I felt that recently when Jean and I started our endeavor in the media world. If you look at the top-- - What an endeavor it's been. - What an endeavor it's been. - But if you look at the top business podcasts, or even just like the business vertical, the industry in and of itself, there's not many people at the top who look like us, who are women, who are women of color. And so, I would just, watching this back, I was just like, okay, I love what Kofi stands for, because, you know, many times you can feel like, whoa is me, how am I gonna, it's an uphill battle. Yes, it is, period, it is an uphill battle, but you need to have the grit, the tenacity, and also like the finesse to get to where you want to go. And while you're doing that, along the way, make allies, so that you can change the system, if it is not set up for you or people who are from your background. And so, it's just like, I think a lot of people get into a whoa is me mindset, and I think that's fine, you can feel that, but then what do you do with that energy, and how do you make something of yourself, and then also carve a path for other people as well. She's fired up. - Guys, I'm fired up. - I'm fired up, ready to go. - I'm ready to go, I'm fired up from. - It's like, oh, President Obama's like, 2008 campaign. - Damn, that really stuck with me. - Fired up. - Ready to go. - Fired up. - Ready to go. - But, okay, wait, on that topic, I think, I love what you're saying. I think there's also the opposite, the slip side of it. Which is that I think there are a lot of people who kind of refuse to even acknowledge the fact that the rules of the game are not the same for everyone. - Yes. - Right, like some people are just like, oh, it's not the case, like I'm just gonna operate as if like I'm in the same position as everyone else who I see. Which is also not helpful. Which is also, you know, denying reality. - Yes, so I think that that's like, I am very happy that I'm very grateful that we had Kofi on our podcast, and that he, like, said that for the record. - You know what I mean? - Sometimes it has to be said. - Yes. - A lot of people are afraid to say that, to be like, the rules of the game are not the same for everyone. - I think I was scared to say that. Or like, I think I recognized it, but I like, before Kofi, I was like, oh, I don't think I can say this out loud. But I was so happy he said it out loud. It also gives me permission also to feel like I feel this way. I actually feel this way. And it's not only just making your circumstance better. Kofi really talked about the bully pulpit. And I think that just shows, I mean, what matters to him and also a lot of what matters to us is that, like, yes, obviously we want to be a top business podcast, but we also want to be up there carving a path so that we can create more opportunity for women podcasters or, you know, people of color in the business category of our podcast. So I think, I love that part of the conversation. It was very powerful. It was very humble. And it just held a lot of gravitas from me. Yeah. OK, I love that you brought up the bully pulpit because, you know, who else talked about the bully pulpit recently, one of our guests, Rama Manuel. And these are, so like, listening to the Kofi episode again for me, I was like, oh, yeah. Kofi talked about the bully pulpit and how he felt like, now that he has, you know, built himself up to be who he is and he's had like a very illustrious career and he has the bully pulpit. He has been doing a lot with it. Like, he's very much espousing his message and living it and bringing it to a lot of different people and helping people like him break into tech where it honestly is not-- it's not an even playing field. And I think that's something. that I would like to do even more of, like recognize the fact that we do have a bully pulpit and to do something with it. Much like ROM, Emanuel, and Kofi Umpdu. Yes. I really love the quote where Kofi said, "You can't change the system. You're a rookie year." Oh, yeah. Like that made a ton of sense. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe the game is rigged. You're in the game now, but you can't just go up to the commissioner. You're a one and be like, make ABCD changes. It's like you have to, it's kind of like on you to build up the credibility, which I think is really hard. And I think also stating that, like recognizing that, if you are one of a few people who look like you sound like you come from your background, like that's really freaking hard. And I really admire that pursuit. But then once you're there going and making those changes, I think is the next step. Yeah. I do also like that he acknowledged that, basically, I guess he was saying that it's like a fine line because he says that a lot of times startup founders who are minorities will say to him, like, I am scared to fail because I feel like, if I fail, then I am, you know, closing down this path for the next female podcasters in business, right? Like, I am emblematic of like, if I fail, then, you know, big podcast or whatever is going to be like, look, these female business podcasters failed. So like, why are we going to invest in the next one? And like his point is like, that's not the case, right? Like you are still your own entity. So like, you need to just do the best that you can for yourself. Like, do not necessarily feel the weight of an entire category on you. Like, the best you can do is just do what you set out to do and what you said you would do. Yes. Right? Yes. Exactly. That's what Kofi said in the episode. And also, like, I think the remedy is, it sucks that their, you know, what is it, 2% of women founders receive VC money or of VC money, only 2% goes to women founders. And that definitely sucks. But that just means that more companies should be funding women so that there's not as much pressure for women to be the standout token that has to reach the moon and stars and more. I felt a little bit bad in that way when like Elizabeth Holmes ruined it for women. But I'm like, I was like, can you not? But also like, there should be more women founders. So she is not the, you know, yeah, the token person that people look to for women founders. Like, that's not me. That's not who I'm trying to be like, don't lump me in there. There should just be more of us so that we are not lumped in with that category. So one thing that I really liked about our conversation with Kofi and that I very much admire about him is that he is a person with very high agency, which is so clear throughout like his entire life journey and like all the things that he's done. But what I really love is that it is paired with this mindset that he has where he says, if I know this is something I cannot change, I don't stress about it. So I think that a lot of times you would think that that is like antithetical to someone who is high agency because the whole point of being high agency is that you think you can like change things. You can control the situation, blah, blah, blah. But I think that he's so good because he has both elements. Yeah. Like he's not just like high agency, you know, spray and pray like thinking he can change every single thing and like wasting his high agency time, you know. He's like very targeted with like he is going to be high agency. Yeah, about things that he knows he can change and improve versus things where he's like, this is the way things are, I am not going to be able to change this. So I'm not going to stress about it. Yeah, that's something I, I feel like I could do a better job of. Yeah, he's able to hold both of those very complex thoughts at the same time and really take his focus or like take his energy and have it's like a spotlight and he's able to like focus it on something that matters to him that he's able to influence. Because if your spotlight goes on things that you are not able to change, then that's like a wasted spotlight. So yeah, I think that's a really interesting call out. I also wrote down that he's super high agency. What can I do to change something? Is one of the notes that I clocked when I was rewatching the interview? I love being around people who have that mindset. Because those people like kind of grab life by the horns. I actually mean that. They run towards the fire. They grab life by the horns and they make something. They make things happen. Yeah, that's the most exciting part. It's fun to be around those type of people because you're like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it. That's why I think for me it's so inspiring to speak with so many of these people because you're like, okay, this is where you started. This is where you are now. And then like against all odds, these are, this is how you did it. And it's like if you can do it, then I can do it too. I don't know. I'm very inspired by our guests. The next takeaway that stood out to me was when Kofi talked about his family and specifically about his father and how his father is in his 70s and is a business owner and how his dad is living his best life still working. And I know it was like a very small part of the entire interview and conversation. But it stood out to me because I want to be working. I think so. I mean, I'm only 30 now. But like, let's see what I'm 65, how I feel. But like the goal is to find something that you love that you feel passionately about that can make you money and that you're good at. Like finding that Venn diagram of that thing. So that, at least that's my life philosophy that like, I want to be doing this until I can't because like, I want to be, I see myself being an old person being still very curious and with amazing skin, with amazing skin and like a glowing smile and beautiful white teeth and just still engaged in the world around me. And I know I'm like, that's not exactly how Kofi described the situation with this family. But like, that's what it inspired in me is that like, I want to still be working well into my 70s. And I think my experience is that a lot of the like older folks that I'm around are retired and bored. And so I see that now. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. Like, I want to be an advisor. I want to be an investor. I want to be a professor. I want to be a business owner. Maybe I'll still be podcasting when I'm 70 years old. Yeah. Like working with your definition of work. Yes. Exactly. It brings you joy. Exactly. Exactly. And it's finding a lot of that. I mean, Kofi talked about it too. If I'm going to bring up another point is that he has the founder itch. Or he had the founder itch. He's a two times founder and now turned investor. But he hated his job. I think he was a consultant previously when he worked in corporate. Right. When he worked in corporate. And like, he had the founder itch. And so my push to you, if you're listening or watching this right now, and like, you have the founder itch, like, do you have a bunch of side hustles? Like in high school, he would said he was burning CDs and selling CDs and all this stuff. Like, do you have that within you? Because Kofi's advice is there's no better time than now to try it. Because the longer you put it off, it's not now, not now, not now. It becomes not ever. And so yeah, find what you love to do. And it could be entrepreneurial or something else. But then isn't it all about finding longevity in that? So are you encouraging people to like, just do it to like try try it out? I'm encouraging people that if there's something that you want to do, do it. If and that could be building a business, that could be starting a hobby, that could be traveling. Like, I think we oftentimes find ourselves in a place where we think there is a better time in the future. But life only gets more complicated. As we get older, we get more senior in our job, we get more responsibilities, we grow a family, we have dependents like there is probably no better time than five years ago. But the second best time is probably right now. Yeah. So just try it. It does remind me of another interview that we did, which was with Susie Welch. And she talks about the concept of living a B plus life. And a lot of people are living a B plus life and you don't realize it. And I think the sooner you can realize it, the sooner you can understand it, the sooner you can admit that to yourself, the sooner you might actually take action and do something different. Yes. Yeah. And a B plus life can be different for everyone. But I think universally it's just that feeling of like, like I'm not doing the thing that makes me happy, that thing that gives me joy and gives me purpose. And I think figuring out what does do that for you as part of the entire process. So the last thing that I wanted to talk about for this episode is that I love how Kofi is actually very introspective and he's very introspective in a way that is measurement and database. So he talks about his system. Talk to me, baby, with measurement and data. He talks about his system of how every day he would track like on these different vectors how he's doing and then add up all the numbers over time to be like, okay, how am I trending? How did this year go? How did this month go? How did this week go? And I think it's just a way of being aware of yourself, right? Like I check in. Yeah, and there's so many studies nowadays of how being of how self-awareness is an extremely important aspect. It's like the basis of self-growth, right? If you have no self-awareness at the beginning, like you're not going to know where your baseline is, right? You can't be like this is where I am and this is where I want to get to. How can you go to like where you want to get to if you don't even know where you are? Did I eat with that? Um, sort of. Maybe. But yeah, I just thought that it was really valuable that Kofi shared with us his very personal method. And I think it's not that everyone has to use his method. It's very time intensive and like, you have to be extremely dedicated to his method. But I think it's more so the idea of like he created this model for himself of like what he was going to do in order to have this high level of self-awareness. And it's more so I think like reflecting to yourself and be like how am I going to do that, right? Like how am I going to improve my level of self-awareness? If I do want to invest in myself and there is like a certain path or like I have certain goals for myself this year, like what am I going to do to measure that? Like how am I going to assess where I am today to get to where I want to be tomorrow? Yeah. And I think it's great that Kofi, I think he does it daily or he did do it daily at one point, especially during the pandemic when you're like your world is turned upside down. But it can be like a weekly exercise, a monthly exercise, a quarterly exercise. Right. An annual exercise. Like we've we have this whole episode about how we set up our goals for the year. And we talked about like you should actually go check out that episode. I'm very proud of it because we are very honest and transparent about all the things that we do. It's basically we show our own system. Kofi shares his system in this interview, but in our episode Gina and I share our own system. Yeah. And so like there's just a lot of different methods that you can use. And I just love that this episode reminds us to kind of inspect that. Yes. Hey guys. So it's come to my attention that many of you don't know. Jean and I have a matcha brand called Sisters Matcha that we created and founded ourselves. What? No way. A matcha brand? Yeah. We started it in October 2024. Jean and I have worked and lived on this matcha farm in Japan. It's sourced from Wazuka, Japan, which is an hour and a half outside of Kyoto and the brand means the world to us. It is a small family owned farm and we actually travel back to the farm and handpick the matcha ourselves. So you can find out more about Sisters Matcha to try it. Check it out. Buy it. Buy it. And then we buy it. Sisters Matcha.com. That's Sisters Matcha.com. And already back to the show. The final thing I will say is that Kofi wrote down his plan. You can have it in your head. You can, you know, you can talk about it with your friends. But when you write it down, it makes it so much more real. And you know what? The thing that you write down in 10 years, it might not be exactly the same. Like things change, things are unexpected, things come up, sure. But write down your plan and something that Jean and I say borrowed from my Stanford Professor Joel Peterson, write it down in pencil. Write your plan down in pencil, things change, but write it down because you have something to look back on and it kind of manifests it in the world. When you say it out loud and write it down. Yeah. He wrote it down and then he emailed it to his best friend. Maybe do that too. Maybe two steps. Write it down and email it to your friend because then they'll have email it to yourself or email it to us. Yeah. Because it's social accountability and also, it just makes it way more real. It like forces you to do it because you're like, okay, fine. I'll think about my life plan, blah, blah, blah, and then you never do it. But like when you email it to someone else, yeah, or write it in a comment on this episode. Yeah. What's your 10-year plan? Leave a lot of snow in the comments. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this director's cut episode with Kofi Ampadu. And if you guys got all the way here, please, please, please take two seconds to subscribe to our newsletter. We have a substack. It's linked in the description or you could go to TigerSistersPodcast.com and subscribe from there. And also, don't forget to rate us five stars on whatever platform you're listening to us on. Thanks guys. We'll see you next time. Bye!