- Fuck us through that life folks' efficient. It is not easy, right? - Just speaking on the first mile, that's a massive topic in itself that can probably take two weeks of me explaining it because really in seafood, we have so many categories. You have, you know, you have your crab, which is a whole category in itself. You have lobster, you have shrimp, you have salmon, you have finfish, you know, you have shellfish. So there's all different categories to that. I feel that the industry mostly refers to as aquaculture. And I would say that's pretty general for both shellfish as well as finfish. That's a massive, massive industry. And like I mentioned, we really import the majority of our, of our farmed fish. Here in the U.S., we are able to have shellfish leases for oyster cultivation. Shellfish tags have been in place for years. This is actually monitored by the FDA. So I believe it's the National Shell Fish Sanitation Program. And this is regulated by the FDA. They will be excluded from FISMA actually. And so we'll catfish because the catfish category is also under USDA. (upbeat music) - Welcome to Farm to Fort The Innovators. I'm your host, David Maloney, President of the ADMFS. And I spent over four decades navigating the twists and turns of the food supply chain. On this podcast, we're diving deep into the stories and strategies that are reshaping the way we produce, distribute and serve our food. Our guest innovator today is Stephanie Pazaglia, a board member at CPAC, the C-Food Sustainability Initiative, and outreach and development manager at JJ McDonald, a leading wholesale seafood distributor. With nearly a lifetime of experience in the seafood sector, Stephanie brings tremendous expertise toward discussion today. Join us as we delve into a comprehensive overview of the seafood industry and current fishing practices. Best practices in seafood sourcing, covering both farmed and wild options. Responsible sourcing methods for seafood and other goods within the supply chain and insights into the future of the seafood industry. So buckle up, hit that subscribe button, and let's harvest progress together. This is Farmed-A-Fort The Innovators, where the future of the food supply chain starts with this episode. All right, welcome to the show, Stephanie. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi, thank you for having me on the show. My name is Stephanie Pazaglia, and I lead our outreach and development department at JJ McDonald. I have been in the industry really my whole life. I started off working for my dad who owns a seafood wholesaler in retailer in Pennsylvania. And I started working for him at a pretty young age. I worked every aspect of his business, but mainly the back end part of it. I did a lot of counting of clams and a lot of the dirty jobs, but I loved it. And it really gave me some good insight and really was the genesis of my passion for the seafood industry. I ended up going to school for marine biology. It's talked to university. I ended up working for them for a little bit after I graduated. And then I worked for New Jersey Department Environmental Protection Bureau of Shell Fisheries, which gave me a really nice take on the regulatory side of things and really how quota management is started at a government level. I got to work on a lot of commercial boats. It was a great opportunity. And then I started at JJ about eight years ago. So folks, we're here to talk about seafood, not my area of expertise. All the more reason that we want to talk to Stephanie today, right? How big is the industry? So if you look at the NOAA reports, when they produce their economic reports for the commercial seafood sector, I believe it's like $183 billion. So they start at the bottom. They start at the first mile where the fishermen are going out and they'll track that all the way up to when it's sold. And that's worldwide. That's domestic. So for the US, I would say we're about 50% for aquaculture, so farm-verse wild. That's not just solely domestic product, but overall as a country, we definitely consume over 50% of farm products. OK. Consumption. Consumption. I do know that 80% of our production of farmed seafood in the US is going to be shellfish. So that's going to be your oysters and your clams. Mussels are also going to be in that category. OK. Cool. So in the US, we actually-- we don't have offshore aquaculture. So a lot of offshore aquaculture is going to be your salmon production. So our farm salmon is a massive, massive industry and a commodity in the US. And that's all being imported. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. And folks, I think one of those things-- we're not just going to talk about seafood today. One of the things that's quite interesting, at least to me about the seafood industry, is a couple of things. The responsible sourcing efforts that the industry seems to be-- I would say one of the leaders versus some of the other industries and the food supply chain. Traceability is one, particularly with shellfish tags, et cetera, and their movements towards those. And then innovation, when you look at aquaculture and how that's really kind of the industry's kind of expanding. So before we get those, can you walk us through the supply chain? So JJ McDonald is-- and we'll talk a little bit more about JJ McDonald in a second-- but is a wholesale distributor? Yes. So JJ McDonald is a wholesale processor distributor when we're located in Outbridge, Maryland. Which is not far from Baltimore, right? No. It's very close to Baltimore. OK. And just so we're on the subject, how far do your customers go out? Sure. Sure. So our distribution region right now spans from New York really down to North Carolina, depending on the customer. OK. And our customer is really include food service, retail, and then some wholesale. OK. Great. Thank you. And so again, we're getting in JJ McDonald. Very interesting company here in a minute. But can you walk us through kind of the supply chain up to JJ McDonald? And maybe I think a lot of people who listen probably don't have a lot of familiarity with the fishermen, or official people, maybe. Now, I have a little backstory. And I may have told you this. So I spent a summer in Ocean City, Maryland at a crab place where two-- it was owned by two fishermen. And so I learned quite a bit that summer. It was a lot of fun. But if you go to walk us through that life of the fishermen, it is not easy, right? It's definitely not easy. And just speaking on the first mile, that's a massive topic in itself that can probably take two weeks of me explaining it. Because really in seafood, we have so many categories. You have your crab, which is a whole category in itself. You have lobster, you have shrimp, you have salmon, you have finfish, you have shellfish. If you want to specifically talk about East Coast domestic commercial fishermen, I can start there at least and talk about that kind of first mile. So we partner with boats up and down the East Coast, as well as the Chesapeake Bay. These fishermen are usually generational fishermen. And they are going out on all different sized boats, depending on what it is that their targeted catches. We partner with several boats, speaking of Ocean City Maryland, a lot of boats there. And they'll go out fishing for anything from black bass to bluefin tuna, flounder, really, you name it, tile. And they're fishing that right off the coast of Ocean City Maryland, which is really cool. So these boats will go out for depending on their trip and depending on their targeted species that they're going out to fish. They'll go out, come back in anything from a day to three days or more. And we'll bring it to a site where they can offload. And then will either pick up that fish or we'll bring it to a packing house to be further distributed that way. It really depends on what species that the fishermen are going out to target and how they're going to bring that back in. So whether they are going to distribute it to a packing house or they have a partner like a JJ that is able to pick up the fish right from the dock. With that being said, you need either refrigerated truck or vats with ice in it. So proper handling is always really important as well. Especially on a wholesale or side of it, the better you're handling the product, the better the quality is going to be for the customer. OK, great. Thank you. Great. So essentially, you're taking that product directly from the fisherman. In most cases, yes. It all depends on how many steps in the chain and how far the fisherman may be. For Ocean City, Maryland and Virginia and other parts on the East Coast, we are very fortunate to have established those partnerships. And then in other cases, we may be partnered with a packing house that is working as an offloader to accept many different vessels and their catch in bringing them in, making sure they're the right grade, and then being able to sell.
sell that way. Yeah, cool. And by the way, beautiful area of the country. It is. Yeah. Eastern choreo, Maryland, you know, right there in Virginia and even in in New Jersey, Southern New Jersey is really beautiful area of the country. What does success look for these look like for these fishermen? I mean, is it easy enough to say it's like a big catch, right? So being a commercial fisherman is a really hard job. I give every single person out there a lot of credit for doing it. First of all, you're up against mother nature. So being up against mother nature, she has no mercy. You know, if it's going to rain, it's going to rain, if it's going to be cold, if it's going to be hot, if it's going to be windy, there is no predicting that sometimes. And how hard it can be for the fishermen to really, you know, understand what their payday is going to look like, you know, whether it's for the week or or even for the year. Another kind of battle that the fishermen are going up against currently in our country is quota allocation. So the way quota works is that quota is established whether it's by state or the federal government, which would be NOAA, NOAA fisheries, establishing what that quota is for, you know, a sustainable stock for the following year. So let's break it down like this. Let's say that we, we, we, it's been assessed that the black bass fishery can have a, you know, we can pull out a hundred fish. So now that quota is now going to go to the councils and that quota is going to be set that way. So they may, they may say, well, let's put 50% on the recreational side and 50% on the commercial side. Well, that's, it's been changing in different areas. And right now it seems like the commercial side is getting less and less quota allocation. And this is, this is becoming a problem and it's in certain areas with certain fisheries. On the recreational side of things, it actually presents as a very big economic stimulus in the area. So obviously recreational fishing is a huge, huge tourism, you know, it's great for tourism. It brings in a lot of folks. It increases boat sales and increases rod and real sales. You know, so there's a lot of positive attributes to that on an economic level. So on a commercial level, really, we, if we want domestic seafood, we need commercial quota. Yeah. So if, and if it's, you know, if we don't have much backing us or if we don't have much support on that quota allocation, yeah, it's a tough subject. Yeah, I can feel that for a guy who loves to go fishing, right, and travels to do so. Right. I can see that. And it would be similar where we're talking about a laskin snow crab quota. We're new Finland snow crab quota. Similar. Is that fair? Yes and no. So there's not a massive, you know, it's not as as massive as a for recreation with snow crab. Yeah. A little different. With the snow crab, it's more so the quota that's been established and kind of the climate shifting, if you will, not climate change. I like to kind of this is a natural process. It happens, you know, water changes, temperatures change. And different stocks will migrate for different food, different temperature. We actually saw this with the surf clam in New Jersey years ago. So New Jersey had one of the largest and most boundful stocks of surf clam. It was one of their biggest economic seafood categories. And maybe 10 years ago, maybe even a little more at this point, probably a little bit more, maybe 20 years ago. This stock started moving north. So they've kept doing the stock assessments. They kept going out. When I say they, I mean, the states just to kind of do the stock assessments and they sell that population dwindling. Well, it's not that the stock was actually going extinct or, you know, we were we were overfishing it. It's that they were just moving north. They were moving to cold or deeper water. So that's another kind of challenge with the quotas that, you know, making sure that those stock assessments are not only updated in those historical sites, but also updating it along the coast. So we're seeing this with black bass as well on the east coast where it's now migrating up north. And the thing is that those northern states may have not have ever had a quota established for that particular species because historically it wasn't it wasn't relevant there. So that's the same thing with the snow crab. They may not be dominant in the areas that we've historically caught the snow crab, but I'm sure if you went a little north, you might be able to find them. Interesting. So not only are you dealing with the quota that you're dealing with a changing supply source, right? And evolving supply source, right? That you're constantly having to hunt for. That's a great word for it. It's evolving. It's ever changing. Remember seafood is still the Wild West at the end of the day. Yeah. See, food is the only category that we are still going out there and hunting and looking for and capturing everything else really is farmed. Yeah. So let's talk about that farmed. And farm versus aquaculture. I mean, what is there a difference in what termed as the industry prefer and maybe they spend on it? I feel that the industry mostly refers to it as aquaculture. And that I would say that's pretty general for both for both shellfish as well as as finfish. And like I mentioned, we really import the majority of our of our farmed fish here in the US. We are able to to have shellfish leases for oyster cultivation. We're able to farm clams as well as mussels. And then on the finfish side, we actually do a lot of rass. So that's recirculating aquaculture systems. So we have some wonderful farms here in the US. So they are land-based farms. One that comes to mind is an awesome farm in Wisconsin called Superior Fresh. And they are multi-trophic farms. So they are going to they have the salmon, they farm salmon as well as greens and lettuce. So it's aquaponics. And so the lettuce and the greens are going to be on top and the salmon are all going to be underneath. And they exchange those nutrients between each other. So it's a great concept and really great story to really kind of share with customers and folks that are looking for sustainable, responsible source options. So that's one that comes to mind from the US. But other than that, I mean, we're going to be looking towards different parts of the world for, you know, these high-end farms and farms have come a long way. I would say one of the biggest challenges when you start talking about farmed fish is that there's negative perception around them because someone bred an article 10, 20 years ago about a terrible tilapia farm and that's like stuck in their head forever. Well, the fish farming industry has come a really long way since then. And just like any other farm, there's really good ones and maybe there's not so great ones. So it's really up to us in the industry and in the mid-supply chain to do our homework, do our vetting and really make sure that we're partnering with these these farms that are doing the best that they possibly can. And which is why I would say a lot of the eco labels have been so relevant around farmed fish because it's really helped to verify and give and provide credit for a lot of these farms that they're doing the right things. And using best practices and making sure not not only environmentally, you know, they're being safe and conscious, but also socially. And is it fair to say, I mean, people say, well, I would never eat farmed seafood, but folks, I hate to tell you, if you eat shrimp, vast majority of the shrimp we consume in the United States is farmed and farmed somewhere else. Is that fair? Yeah, I would say that's definitely fair. And normally if someone asks me that or tells me that they don't eat any farmed seafood, I challenge them to tell me what else they eat that's not farmed. And they usually have a hard time telling me that. So it's just funny. We have such a magnifying glass on the seafood industry, but when it comes to other industries, that magnifying glass isn't as big and it doesn't come up as much. I feel once you get to produce or meet, it's either organic or not organic. And then it ends up being local versus just kind of commodity. So that's kind of your major categories. Where it comes to seafood, a lot more questions are usually asked by the end consumer. Where it's been harvested, how it's been caught, if it's farmed or wild, does it have a certification? Customers are getting more and more inquisitive about their seafood. And if you look to a lot of the retailers, depending on who they are, they either have either they've done their vetting process and they really try to instill that trust in their customers to take that all of those questions away. Not so they're not interested in where their products are coming from, but them but that they feel good when they're ordering it. And that they feel good that they're that their trusted retailer has already done all that vetting, ask all those questions for them so they're getting the best seafood they possibly can. Feels like to me when I go to a restaurant that the seafood industry has done a better job or a really good at least as good of a job as anybody else telling the story of their food. Like if it's Chilean sea bass or
or if it's salmon, it's on the menu, typically where did that salmon come from? Right? Why do you think that is? Is it just, is it the romanticism of the industry or is it because of, it's so perishable and it needs to be accounted for? - No, that's a great point. And that's kind of what I was alluding to, that you know, we have like all these extra questions when it comes to seafood. I would challenge anybody that when they order a hamburger on the menu, they're not asking exactly where that beef came from. But it's a great marketing standpoint. If it was, if it was, you know, raised in, I don't know, in the Midwest at a particular farm and it's, or it's at Angus Beef, you know, folks want to brand that. And I feel that's the same way with seafood. You know, if there's a farm that's identified as really great and is doing all these extra best practices or maybe even providing, you know, a better, a better sense of quality. You want to be able to kind of share that information and share that, share the story of that farm. We've come a long way with technology and, you know, the marketing materials that are available to people. And I've also seen as far as barcodes being on menus. So, you know, someone at that moment can scan their phone and then learn the whole story about where their fish came from or where their scallops came from. And, you know, there's a lot of cool, neat things that you can do that. Anytime a consumer can inherently connect with their food, I do think that they feel good about it. That is definitely what we try to do. We try to make our consumers feel connected to where they're going. A lot of effort with our marketing team as well as our buyers is to really telling that story. So, when we're buying that fish from Ocean City, Maryland, we're able to provide you the captain's name, the vessel name, you know, maybe the fish they brought in that day. And then also we can provide some photos as well. So, just really being able to close that gap, really connect people with their food and do a little education. Because there's a lot of species that are being caught here, you know, whether it's in Maryland or New Jersey or Virginia that folks aren't even serving or maybe even know about. So, you know, another part of that is finding homes for some of that bycatch or maybe that underutilized fish that's really not always on the menu. Outside of that, you know, shrimp salmon kind of scallop menu list. - Yeah, interesting, interesting, cool. All right, so let's talk about JJ McDonald. He said you've been there for eight years wholesale, just somewhere as wholesale food service, I'm sorry. Seafood processor and distributor, as far north as New York, as far south is North Carolina, as far west as. - I would say Maryland. So, we really try to stay along the coast. Yep, we really, and you know, once we start expanding into like the Pennsylvania area, it really depends on the customer in route days. So, it's our main focus is going to be Maryland and Virginia. That's really where our, we have a fleet of about 33, 35 trucks. So, we have a lot of different routes. We are explaining more south than we are north. So, going down to North Carolina as well as you know, something that we're starting to really reach into. And so, JJ McDonald is a great company. They've been around since 1945, started off extremely small in the Baltimore Seafood Market, and actually our current owner and CEO started working there in the '70s. And in the '80s, they moved from the Baltimore Seafood Market to the Jessup Seafood Market. George Stoke and so are owner and CEO. His name is George McManus. He continued to work for JJ McDonald. He did all the job. So, he started as a truck driver. He cut fish, he bought and sold product. It was very small when it was, it was about seven employees, and I want to say it was about five trucks, but I could be, I could be wrong on that one. It was a very small company compared it was today. He ended up buying the company in 1986. And then in 2016, we moved to our current facility in Outbridge, Maryland. Now, we're just shy of 300 employees. We have two locations. And like I mentioned before, we have about 33, 35 trucks. So, that's a pretty big organic growth over the years. And he's very proud of it, and really kind of tries to instill that culture in all of us as it is employees. And I really appreciate how seasoned of a leader he is, and how he genuinely treats every single one of us with respect, whether you just started, and you know, it's an entry-level job, or you know, he's talking to his president or his CFO. He treats everybody with the same respect, and I really appreciate that. Being born and raised in the seafood industry, it's always nice to be around seafood people. - Yeah, cool. And so, what's your, you sell to retail and food service? - That's correct. - Okay, great. And then, how in a whom do you source your supply? Like, you mentioned you partner with various boats or fishermen. Like, how do you pick them? Do they come to you? What qualifications do they need? What's important to you? - That's a big question. I'll start with, again, it's all different species and all different, you know, areas that we can talk about. - Yeah. - We'll pick one, I guess, Ocean City, Maryland, for example. We'll keep it small. - Getting a lot of love in this conversation. Ocean City. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's a lot of Jersey. So, what will happen as we will? It's sometimes it's organic. Sometimes it's a recommendation. And finding good partners really comes from both sides. So if we're sourcing certain species, let's say that we're really looking for a new flounder supplier. We're going to, you know, try to do our own research and then we're going to try to get some recommendations and make sure that those vendors or, you know, those boats are going to be like-minded in our sense and make sure that they're going to bring in solid quality. They're going to have good communication skills. So that vetting process really looks different for whatever, you know, side of that supply chain is. Now, when we're selecting vendors from Europe, you know, that supply chain may look a little bit different. We work with a ton of different farms in Turkey and Greece and, you know, various parts of the world, Canada, for, you know, sourcing a lot of our farm fish. I think of, I think of Turkey and Greece of our browns, any farms that we're working with. So coordinating those flights, making sure that they're doing all the best practices on their farm. So it's a lot of communication and a lot of like-minded questions back and forth. Why is responsible sourcing important? And can you define that for us? Sure. To me, at least, responsible sourcing is about a thoughtful and conscious decision to do the right thing. So I like to use the term responsible sourcing over sustainable because sustainable really became kind of just a buzzword to use. And that's really hard to define. What does that even mean in the sense of seafood? If you wanted to define it, it just means that that population is there for years to come. So, you know, and how do you do that? So that's a really kind of blanket statement of using responsible sourcing is understanding what the stock is, understanding the management behind it, understanding the practices, and then consciously sourcing the amount and the quality that we need. So we try to use this in every aspect of our business, not just responsibly sourcing our seafood, but we also responsibly source our packaging and we also dispose of it responsibly. So that's another kind of component. And same thing kind of goes with other resources that we're sourcing in our facility and what's happening to them after I think of water. You know, when we're sourcing our water and being efficient with our resources and then how we're, you know, how that water is going back to the county and we're moving our solid waste and what are we doing with that? So we're actually currently working with a company who could potentially transform our solid waste from our water treatment to natural gas. So how cool is that that you're able to do that? And we currently are using recyclable toads for our retail partners. We responsibly dispose of our wax, our wax and cardboard boxes through our recycling program. We do the same with our styrofoam. So we have a styrofoam compactor. So those materials are, you know, being being repurposed. They're not just going in a dump somewhere. So that's something that I think is really important too. So not just the sourcing end of it for, you know, for our business, but also the company as a whole. Yeah. And folks, I mean, just just my experience in agriculture and in the seafood industry, meaning most of my experiences is charter boats, right? And traveling and fishing. The most responsible people, those who seem the most zealous about at least where I live in Sarasota than Gulf of Mexico are the people who fish it and treat it the best. And I would tell you, similar for wherever places I've been in the world and fished in similar to farmers here in the United States, whether they're raising cattle or hogs or chickens, whatever. They are generally, I think a lot of people don't give the industries and the farmers credit for what they're trying to do. They don't see the whole picture. So thank you for bringing that up. How is traceability important? Now we have FISMA-204 coming, which I've been doing.
I know you're very familiar with. But before we step into FISMA 204, how is traceability itself important for the seafood industry? That's a great question. So as I keep alluding to that, we have a lot of different categories coming from all different parts of the world, not just domestically, but those supply chains all look different. So us at JJ, we're very responsible with what's in our four walls, and we can produce the information from the moment that the product is received to the time that the product is, leaves our building and what customer it's going to. But the first mile of that can sometimes be really, really kind of challenging. And we absolutely do our best to learn that first mile, the best we can. The closer to the boat we can get, the better. But you are going to have different categories that may go through, you know, four different hands before they get to a processor and distributor like us, even with us being the size that we are, this would go for really any distributor. Sometimes there's just a lot of different steps before it can come to market. So that can get really gray. And when I say gray, I mean, the information along the way. So really being able to connect those dots and being able to provide the steps or, you know, the different steps along the way that we're responsible for that product is really important. So the Food Safety Modernization Act is really about recalls, and making sure that if someone gets sick at a restaurant or a retailer, we're able to provide this information of where this product came from and we're able to pull those dots within 48 hours. That's really the whole genesis of it, which is great. What is not so great for seafood is that we've never had anything like this in our industry before. So there's been, you know, a lot of different, the FDA has been involved in a lot of different other food categories. But for seafood, it can be really complex and not always, you know, like I said, we're wild, we're not farmed. So it can be really complex in that sense. And just making sure that every single first mile step along the way is really aware that this is coming and that this information is going to be necessary in order to continue to sell or produce that product. Not only here in the U.S., but we import about 90% of our seafood. So making sure these other countries are aware that if you, hey, if you want to import to the U.S. or export to the U.S., you're going to have to provide all of this information within 48 hours. And how is all that data going to be provided is another kind of question. So we use a traceability platform at JJ McDonald. It's called Whole Chain. And it basically harbors data. It goes up into a cloud. It can track everything that's coming in our door. And understand where it's going to go. It integrates with our ERP system. So it really is kind of automated at that point. We're not worried about us. We're very worried about the whole first mile. Because what we don't want to happen is an interruption. Once January 2026 comes around, that is when FISMA is actually being implemented and starts to go into effect, if you will. So I'm really worried that the first mile isn't going to be fully as prepared as some of the folks that are so well connected to the industry. And I say that with grace because we're very fortunate as a company and as individuals within larger companies that are able to attend conferences and be so connected with the industry that we know about this for two years. What isn't so fortunate is that a lot of other folks on that first mile don't attend conferences. They may not be up to date on all these changing features within the industry. Like we are. So we're doing the best we can to educate our first mile. Let them know this is coming. We're going to need this data. And what is your plan to get this data to us or get your data in at least? So we're not just getting a whole bunch of pieces of paper. You know what I'm saying? The day I say, "He used my data." So it would just be a lot of data to collect. So the more automated, I hate to say it, but the more automated that process can get the easier and simpler it is going to be to continue to sell seafood in the U.S. I am a little concerned about some of the smaller operations. Yeah, for sure. Well, there's a lot of people that are behind on this subject. Not just the first mile in seafood. I can tell you that shellfish tags. Is there a model there for it at all? I mean, now granted, that's domestic, right? But can you explain to people what shellfish tags are and how those are used today to trace? Shellfish. Yeah, absolutely. So shellfish tags have been in place for years. So I believe it's the National Shellfish Sanitation Program. They will be excluded from FISMA, actually. So they're going to be excluded, which is great. One of our big programs at J.J. McDonald is Blue, Wild Blue Catfish from the Chesapeake Bay, which is invasive. So that was at least one we don't have to worry about. But on the shellfish tags, so every time that where, so there's, there's sale of oysters, a hundred count bag of oysters needs a tag on it. It's going to need the area that it's been harvested from, the date it was harvested, different, just information more about the farm. That shellfish tag is now going to come to to a J.J. McDonald. And we actually have to keep that tag for about two years in our records, just in case there's ever a recall. Two years a long time. If anyone has, you know, an oyster sitting in there, cooler for two years, like we may have a different conversation, but but that is what, how long we need to keep those tags for. And then that tag needs to go onto the food service customer or retail customer, and they have to keep it up to six months. The reason why is because vibrio can come from, from consuming raw, raw shellfish. And if there happens to be, you know, a case, so vibrio will occur if the cool chain is really broke. So if proper storage is in being practiced or, you know, they've been left out overnight, whatever it may be, you know, there, there has been cases of vibrio. And that shellfish program, the tag program was put into place to do quick recalls. But we really advise people not to cry wolf, because if you do call and let someone know like, "Hey, I've just gotten sick from an oyster and I have vibrio, you may shut down an entire fishing industry." For I know it happens, and if there's a case, they have to completely shut down those oyster leases, just to make sure that no other people get sick. So it's a very serious thing, and it definitely should be treated so. I've noticed like over the last, let's say, five, eight years as an oyster consumer, that it feels like now you're going to a restaurant, you get more of the story of the oysters, whereas maybe before, and maybe just like that, I eat it nice restaurants now that I'm older, I don't know. But as the shellfish tags played a part in that at all, being able to tell the story. I don't think the shellfish tags play a part in that. I think that comes down to the individual farms and how well they brand them. Oyster marketing is fantastic. Farms have come in a really long way to really define themselves in the industry, creating different catchy names and attractive names that could be fun to put on a menu. I think of an exclusive oyster that we have, they're called skinny differs, like how cool is that name? Like how awesome is that? And the cool thing, I'll just use True Chess Peak farm as an example. So they marketed their different oysters to really fit what's coming out of their farm. So oysters like people don't grow at the same rates and they don't grow to be all the same shapes and sizes. So they've created different brands. So their skinny differ is like a three-inch oyster, and they have a whole segment of brand for that. It's going to be in a beautiful 100-count box. It has all these beautiful art all over it. And then they have a cocktail oyster. So even if that, so in that cocktail oyster is about two inches. And again, 100-count box, complete different branding, they're referring to his hawkabaries. And even if that two-inch oyster and that three-inch oyster, we're in the same, in the water for the same amount of time, right next to each other, this guy only grew this big, this guy grew this big. So there's nothing wrong, they're just on two different growing rates. So to market those, to keep the oysters moving off the farm, that is the marketing tactic that they have. But I think the brand recognition has really been more on the farms rather than the shellfish tags. Okay, cool. Thank you. Maybe just you're involved in an organization called CPAC, right? And so maybe we can kind of wind it down here. Can you tell us a little bit about CPAC, what the role is and what the purpose of CPAC is? Sure, yeah. So CPAC is an industry-led organization. They started in 2013. I know we have 11 North American seafood companies that are currently members and actively involved. We have three NGO advisors. I would say the primary goal for CPAC is really funding industry-led projects. So the project funding can be anything that's really going to relate to our strategic priorities. So our strategic priorities would be sector base, category.
like seafood categories. So whether it's tuna or mahi or snapper, also aquaculture and then social responsibility. So folks will submit L.O.I.s on projects that they're working on. The board will meet and then we will select projects based on relevance and making sure it matches with our our goals and we will fund those projects. So it's really one a very unique setup because most of time projects that are funded or are funded by NGOs or large funding organizations or institutions. So it's a really unique group. Also we're allies in the industry. It's fantastic. It's great as we're getting hit with FISMA, as we're getting hit with traceability, as we get hit with all these certifications. We can all bounce these things off one another and really understanding growth together and we set those transformative changes together. You know setting an example in leaders in the industry. My role is I'm on the board and I represent JJ McDonald. I have been on the board since 2018 but there have definitely been some folks on the board since 2013 in inception. Cool. Thank you. Last question and thank you Stephanie. This has been wonderful. Where is the seafood industry going and and how does the retail and food service industry help you won't get there? So communication is 100% needed. It's important for our sales team and our management to continue to communicate with the food service industry in the retail space. Hearing from them and hearing what their needs are, whether it's on the responsible sourcing end and in what they're asking for in that space or if it's on the traceability end and you know what data they need to provide their customers or for their companies to feel good about it. But it's also us informing our customers about what's going on in the industry. And like I mentioned before about underutilized species and what's actually coming off the boats or you know hey we're growing all all these oysters and some are small and some are big. Can we create a market for these smaller oysters? I think it's a push and pull. So as much as it is that we're hearing I also think that we have a responsibility to continue to educate so we can all work together to make sure that this industry is around for a really long time. So collaboration. Collaboration 100%. Great. All right. Great. Well thank you Stephanie. So how do people get in touch with you or JJ McDonald? You can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Stephanie Pazalia. Also you can reach out to my email anytime you'd like. My email is
[email protected]. And also if you're interested in learning more about JJ McDonald please visit our website. It's jjmectonel.com and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Great. Great. I want to thank you for being on the show Stephanie. Very informative. Thank you so much David. And that brings us to the end of another insightful journey through the fields of innovation on Farm to Fort, the innovators. It's an honor to have you listen. If you found today's episode as fascinating as we did, don't forget to share it with a friend, writer review and hit that subscribe button so you never miss another episode. Farm to Fort is not just a podcast. It's a community of forward thinkers and change makers. Your thoughts and ideas matter to us. Reach out on social media or through our website datameths.com and be a part of the ongoing conversation. As we wrap up today remember the future of the food supply chain is in our hands. Stay curious, stay innovative and let's continue growing together. Until next time this is David Maloney signing off from Farm to Fort, the innovators. Thank you for being a part of this community. See you in the next episode.
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