The Future of Politics and Humanity? Nick Land, Karl Marx, Tucker Carlson, and Bernie Sanders on A.I.

And so I think that the lack of certainty, the lack of stability in relation to a future is a universal lack that a new solidarity among us all could be based on. So it's an opportunity for us to come together in a way we never have. And we'll see. I mean, there's a, we're the beans of death drive, we're the beans of self undermining. And so is this, will we undermine ourselves maybe? We're also capable of symbolic mandates and duties and sacrifice for others. So it's very unpredictable how we will respond to it. But I think these kind of conversations are essential. I think. And Bingo, Bingo, Bongo, we are fucking recording. Welcome back. What's up? What's up, Mikey? We're here for another weekend update episode. Um, what's up, man? We had a, we had a good weekend, dude. I had a good weekend. Buzz, yeah. This is a second class at philosophy portal in the land, G. Jack singularity for some teaching and it was a, I felt like it went really good. I mean, the vast majority of the lecture was devoted to land. Next one will be devoted to G. Jack. I think the thing I was most excited about though actually was getting to talk about this, this concept from the book exocapitalism. We've got it sitting right behind you by Merrick Pauks and Roberto Alonzo Trillo. I hope I'm saying their names right. I think we'll hopefully, they'll have the opportunity to correct us soon. Yeah, I would absolutely love to talk to them because I think this book is super important. If somebody's tapped into the theory circuit that we are, which is Bojriard in land and G. Jack and the losing with Tari and Marks and all that, like, it's just a book for you. So I got to already tell you I recommend it, but they have this concept of lift and I got to actually talk about it a little bit in the class. So that was a highlight for me. They also have a concept of drag, which I want to talk about it sometime too. But I kind of when I was reading the book, I got stuck on lift first. It comes first in the book. So it's the one that kind of captured my attention, but getting to talk about that was fantastic. Cadel is awesome. It's just great working with him and being at philosophy portal. He's, I can't say enough good things about Cadel. So I'm having a blast each in this course. And the two more sessions. And if anybody wants to sign up, you can still sign up through my Patreon. Patreon, the link will be in the description of this episode video, whatever. It's going well. If you're late, don't worry. The courses or the lectures sessions are recorded for posterity. So you will get access to that if you want to sign up late. And yeah, it's been really good, man. And we've had some good discussions, some of the questions that came up yesterday. It was a great Q&A. Yeah, they, like I took notes during the lecture. I also took notes during the question just because people, like the shit that other people were thinking, oh, I like that a lot. That's a good thing. I did too. And they're, I honestly, dude, like the, the, I don't want to spoil anything. If you guys want access, you got to go sign up on the Patreon. But there was a question talking about like subjectivity and mimicry and can or will the machine find any value in mimicking human behaviors, human inefficiencies? I started, started writing a few months ago, started writing a story about that. And I'm currently calling it the, the soul glow ledger. It's the one I was telling you about with the aliens and the Straits of Gibraltar. Yeah. Um, that's awesome. I'm glad you're actually working on it. Yeah, dude. But, but it's on that, that, that thing of like there is something that humans do that, that the machine can't. And it's, it's pinpointing it. That gets, yeah, tricky. And of course, Nick would say, well, you, you don't pinpoint it because it's not there. You wish your fantasy. Yeah, he'd purely call it just illusion or delusion. Um, and I, I had to a pamorphic cope. Yeah. And maybe that is all it is. I doubt that that is all it is. I, I think there's some gas in that fire. Um, but yeah, I like that. I like the fact that that question came up and it reinvigorated me to, to go back and, and write that story because it's, it's asking this question of like, what is it that we do different? Um, and also, is it, is it valuable from, um, from the standpoint of capital? I think currently it is valuable. I mean, that's, that's why it's all super egoic. That's why it's this kind of commandment to enjoy and be seen as the best kind of consumer, the most enjoying consumer, the, the most virtuous and virtue being here enjoyment. Um, but maybe it won't matter for much longer. And I think that's like that's, that would be the apocalypse. That would be the end of the world when it, it no longer has to mimic us and manipulate us when we no longer have at least a, a forced choice in the matter. Or when we are no longer necessary for its own development. Yeah. When it achieves lift off. Yeah. Uh, and there were also some questions about like, well, what does it do then? What does capitalism do then? Uh, I think it goes and finds another planet to invade. I think it shoots up. Or the intelligence just sits around, you know, refining itself, whatever, and who knows where that takes it, but I don't know. Isaac Asimov. Because I know that I've said it before, but the techno capital super intelligence won't be trying to sell anybody commodities. Oh no. That's the last thing that'll be on its mind. So yeah, the, the commodity era of the consumer era, the, the, I mean, the human era, era, that's funny. The human era, era of, uh, capital or capitalism will be over. So what is AI capital do once we're not in the equation? Who fucking knows? Who fucking knows? But yeah, I mean, but yeah, it was just a really great series of questions. Um, basically I tried to go from early land to the land that we have conversations with current land and try to do it in two hours. And so I think I did it as good as I could. But next week is going to be the G jack thing. We're going to focus on this book right here. Hey, going to wired brain. So that'll be fun. Don't get the nerve. I guess. Don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. The market of the beast. Perhaps. Yeah. Okay. I'm joking. But, okay. I guess we have not had a chance. I think we kind of, because if anybody's tuning in, you know, who's been keeping up with what's happened the last three weeks or whatever, I think we got at least, and we, even before we started recording, we really didn't plan on this. I think we got to talk about the Tucker Carlson thing for a second. Yeah, dude. I actually, I kind of forgot about it where I'm like, Oh, because I'm thinking about all this stuff and we were talking about the plans we have moving forward with ideas and projects. And I'm like, Oh, wait, we haven't just had a chance on stream. Yeah. We talk about this crazy, unpredictable thing that happened. Yeah. And you want to tell if somebody is tuning in and they don't know what happened the last time it was 10, 11 days ago. It was, it was not last Friday, but the Friday before is what happened. So, you know, a week and a half ago, we're just kind of hanging out, did he bopping along, doing the thing. Tucker Carlson is having a live stream or he's premiering one of his episodes with Conrad Flynn, who seems like a nice gentleman. And the episode is, I can't even remember what it is now, the occult and the artificial intelligence and how do we avoid the marked beast? So they're going along and they're talking about it. It's really a land episode. Yeah. But the ostensibly the episode is about accelerationism in big tech and also the occult. And if you are aware of the some of the things that were aware of that was should already peak your interest and be like, Oh, that sounds like Nick Lant. Well, it turns out Conrad Flynn, I mean, it was weird to see him reference Mark Fisher in the episode and he actually knew it. He stopped and just kind of remarked on the fact that he's like, this is probably the only time someone will reference Mark Fisher on the Tucker Carlson program. Right. That is cool. But Conrad Flynn seems pretty, pretty tuned in at least to a degree to the Nick Land mythos. And Tucker Carlson and Conrad talk for about two, two and a half hours explicitly and implicitly about Nick Land because they're talking about tech accelerationism, Peter Teal, all this stuff, a. I demons Bitcoin, the market abuse this and that. And Conrad and one point Tucker Tucker holds up image of the new Graham, which just about broke my fucking brain. Dude, that was so absurd. So absurd. Tucker Carlson talking about the new Graham and the lemurs is just about as fucking. Weird and has Nick himself put it world historical. Yeah, man. It felt like we were inside. It's crazy. I felt like we were inside of a theory fiction there for a second. But they directly or Conrad directly reference Mikey Downs twice. Twice directly. And it was like holy shit. But but in reference to the video that you and I did with Nick on the new Graham. Yeah, the so much of y hour and 33 minute extravaganza exactly right the video sent straight from the outside. Or blessed by the outside. So yeah, that's what he was primarily basing his his his interpretation of lands of cultist views on was the video that we did. And so you know, and so it just was insane. It'll be the first time in the last time I mentioned on fucking Tucker Carlson show. But hopefully because it was definitely uncanny. It was definitely a bit eerie. It's like, what the fuck? So but the story doesn't in there. And I had had plans to talk to Nick to film another episode of the dangerous maybe. And all of this hit right at the same time. And so I was just like Nick, we need to do this this other episode. And Nick can be hard to get to schedule things because he's always traveling or you know, he has little very limited windows of opportunity to as he puts puts it be podcast available. And so I asked him like, you know, we should do something or respond to this. And so I'm thinking like, yeah, I hope I want to do something in November, December, maybe. And he's like, how about Monday? How about Monday? It's like boom. It was Friday. It was like holy shit. Yeah. Friday night. Holy shit. Okay. Yeah. We can do Monday morning. Let's make it happen. Exactly. So we film a lot of stuff, but part of it is this response to Tucker Carlson video. Thanks to our buddy Christian for getting it out as quick as possible. He's the editing genius and who's helped me learn a lot of the tech. And when there's something that needs to come out quick, he's there to accelerate the process less than 24 hour turn around. Dude, I was and he's busy as shit. He's got a full time job. He's got a family life. He's an incredible musician. And he's a code or he's like the most talented person I know. I'm Christian. If you see this, you're you're coming on to have a discussion with Nancy and I. Oh, yeah. I don't care what we have to force. You're going to talk. So trust me, because he's so he's so fun. He's so opinionated. But you know, people who are really opinionated, can either be incredibly charming and endearing or annoying. Yeah. Christians, the former. So it'll be it'll be a lot of fun. But we get this this video out. Nick Land responds to Tucker Carlson. And it does it takes off. It's pretty good as far as views and everything like that. I figured it would because what the hell, right? That just that the title alone. And I don't even intend for that title be clickbait. It just is actually. Nick Land is actually here responding to Tucker Carlson and Conrad Flynn and the video they did. So it's just a bizarre thing. I've had some. You know, exchanges with Conrad, he seems like a really nice guy. It would be great for us to have a conversation with him at some point. So it's just a crazy event, but it's very cool. And I think Nick gave a good response. And so I'm sure that he and Conrad, I mean, they need to have a discussion whether or not it's with us because it's hard to schedule all this stuff. You and I work. And so even if they're on some other channel somewhere, they get our thumbs up, have the conversation. We'll be the first in line to see it. Yeah. And I mean, if they could wait, I would love for us to have it with them. But also, I would love. Yeah. Like you said, I would love to talk to Conrad, just talk to Conrad. Yeah. Conrad has an interesting perspective too. Like I said, the fact that he was enthusiastically referencing Mark Fisher was, it was very endearing to me. Right. Even though it's, I think it's pretty evident. Like I have some fundamental worldview disagreements with Conrad. I wouldn't want to have like a confrontational conversation with him. I would want to be like, well, let's talk about all this stuff. You're into it too. Yeah. Same totally. But they, they should have, they should have a discourse. Yeah. I'd love to see it. Definitely. I, I think, here's what I think. And of course, I'm looking at this from, you know, the outside looking in. Ha ha. Because I'm some kind of leftist. I, you know, I, I'm hesitant to use the term because I feel like it, what it means to so many people is not what I am. But if you get around people who are on the right, I mean, they know that I'm, I'm not one of them politically. So I don't know. How I can say is that viewing it from a perspective that is not their own, seems to me that there's becoming a greater and greater divide on the right. And I think that conversation marks it because the weirdest thing about this whole thing would be mentioned on Tucker Carlson, all my co-workers, you know, you know, every one of them knows who Tucker Carlson is half of them watches show religiously. So walking in the, the, the, the next day after that Friday going back to work, it was insane to walk in and, you know, one of the soccer moms is just like, I'm listening to Tucker Carlson over the weekend and I hear your name. Yeah. What is happening? Tell me about what is up with these demon lemurs? And I'm just like, what the fuck? Timeline is this, right? Yeah, I did. But here's the thing. She's your typical American conservative. Votes for Trump, you know, has been a conservative for many years. And she's completely alarmed and worried about this landy inside of the right. And here's the truth. The vast majority of people who are on the right are not going to go for land and yarvan. They like those guys because they're also the right and they'll, they have takes that when viewed in isolation, a lot of conservatives might like. When you find out what they believe, you know, neocarnalism, accelerationism, your average normie conservative is sitting there going and I see this crisis, I was talking to them as I, as they were experiencing it and feeling it, they're sitting there going, well, if that's the right, holy shit, I might be a leftist. Yeah. And it's a weird, it presents, it presents an interesting question. Um, because I think for, for a while now, I mean, I've heard a lot of people talk about the weird unity on the right and the kind of, the, the fracture, the, the kind of proliferation, the endless proliferation. and the spurious kind of fracturing of the left, all the infighting. Well, there's so many, you know, you get 11 anarchists in a room and you'll have 13 different fucking disagreements or whatever. And people remark on the fact that on the right, it's weird, because yeah, you have like these post-human, like weird acceleration is people sitting right next to fundamentalist Christians and there's just this weird unity on the right. The fact that the way the Tucker Carlson conversation played out, like Tucker was horrified. And and so are my co-workers. All these so are my liberals. Yeah. The liberals who watched it. And it's this moment of they're all on the same page, which is it's here's the crazy because I'm sitting there explaining it. They go, you're saying that capitalism necessarily is going to give rise to artificial intelligences that pose a truth threat to the continuation of humanity. We all have to do something. That's the my and this type of Terran solidarity that you go to Gareth talks about. I'm like, land, you guys might be cosmos to use the garrison. Okay, for people don't know, Hugo to Gareth writes this sci-fi book about a war between humans and tech guys. Yeah. And it's basically people who who are technofuturists who support the AIs and want to build them. That would be the land side. And then the Terrans are the the humanists who humanists in the sense of defending humanity and not wanting to go down this techno futurist path that leads to the end of humanity. The vast majority of people are not going to be cosmos or not going to be accelerationists in this sense. And so you're going to find a lot I'm sorry it's the the way this thing with AI and how it threatens the average human. It's the fucking independence day scenario. Well, what's what's all of our all of our antagonisms between ourselves seem like nothing now that the aliens have shown up. And now you have this moment of human solidarity like at the end of independence day. And I see it take hold at the fucking warehouse. Yeah. With people who fundamentally disagree on the wedge issues and all that kind of shit. But this gives them a motive and an incentive to go, no, we're all humans. We the AIs don't care if you're conservative or liberal. The AIs don't care if you're Christian, atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu. They don't fucking care. They pose a threat to all of us. They don't care if your trans or cis. They don't care if you're gay or straight. It's all of us. And so that to me is what that's Tucker's reaction. It's saying, wait, there's a side of the right that's really about this. And the existential kind of crisis that the conservatives that I was talking to feel they're sitting there going. So you're telling me that capitalism is actually necessarily geared towards producing these AI entities that are going to wipe us out. Well, that's completely against my Christianity. And they're feeling this this this typical conservative thing. Oh, Christianity, capitalism go hand in hand. They're feeling for the first time what you and I know. And half for a long time, these are not compatible belief systems. And so to see your average normy conservative have all those feelings just from watching the Tucker Carlson thing. I'm like, man, yeah, that episode. Yeah, you could very well have a bigger impact on the right. Then I think it's Marx pilling a lot of people because like Marx is Marx is saying that Marx is saying, hey, capital is this inhuman machine that he talked about like land road cyber Gothic. Yeah, but in capital capital, you could say a cyber Gothic. Yeah, text because what's he can pair capital to vampires and werewolves. That's what's crazy because it's like I have up on my bookshelf behind me, Marx and Satan by Richard Warren brand. I got it sitting up there. Yeah, and it's a silly book. I don't think it's worth reading. I think I think it would be an entertaining conversation, but I think for the average normy, their knowledge of Marx is the Jordan Peterson. Oh, Marx is Marx is evil and Satanic. And that's all they know about Marxism. And it's like it's so hard to talk to people. It's honestly very often not worth using the name Marx when trying to talk to someone who's not a Marxist, but but Tucker Carlson just Marx build half his audience on accident. The most elementary basic logic. Okay. So if if you're a normy conservative, it's sitting there going wait a second. So you're telling me at its core capitalism is Satanic. Well, what is the opposite of capitalism? Communism? Yeah. Or maybe maybe or Marxism or what? Post capitalism. I'm okay with post capitalism as a single fire. Yeah. Between capital and Christ. And I know I do think I think it is amazing. Like I think that this moment has the potential to wake a lot of people. I mean, I've had conversations with my family members my whole life about they're like it will socialism is evil. And you know, it's like, okay, sure, you can think that. But let's actually talk about like, well, wouldn't it be cool if we could afford to go to the doctor and wouldn't it be cool? You know, we could get education. Wouldn't be cool if our rent stopped going up and we could actually afford to buy a house and like, like instead of relying on socialism, communism, Marxism, capital, like just saying wouldn't it be cool? We have actual freedom instead of simulated. Yeah. And having that conversation, it's very possible. People all you have to do is turn off the internet, go talk to people and you can actually have that conversation. I've been doing it for almost 30 years now, you know. But but relying so much on labels and identities, I think puts a dead into it. And we kind of have to rely on labels on the internet. But I think Tucker Carlson succeeded in what so many online leftists have been trying to do, which is wake up average people to the fact that capital is necessarily inhuman and satanic and demonic. Remember the famous words of Mark Fisher. Land is the antagonist. The left needs. Yeah, man. Well, and that's and I've been tapped in the like we both have. But yeah, we've been tapped in for a long time. Like this, the landian rightism could split the right and half. If it ever, if people had to reckon with it on a large scale. And I'm like, well, God damn, it never has it been more on a large scale than it is now. And we know Nick, you know, he wants capital to escape. He wants capital to thrive. But this whole thing of his philosophy actually could end up being a great impediment to the right. Well, and here's the deal, man. Nick being the antagonist of left needs. And you know, I have, I was telling you in Christian, my little secret conspiracy hypothesis that I don't think we need to publicly discuss. And I know I know I'm not the only quote unquote left leaning person who who has this secret hope because I've had the conversation with other people. One day, we'll have to go into this. Well, we'll just say like there's like 7% of me that that believes Nick is secretly a double agent. Yeah. Secretly like a radical leftist who went deep under cover. And I know it's silly. And I don't actually believe it. But it's fun. It's a fun idea to entertain because seeing just how he splits the win his philosophy is actually when normy conservatives, normy writers have to confront his philosophy. It splits the right. Yep. Yep. And it fractures it. It does. The CIA did to the left. You know, all this fucking co-intelpro bullshit. Like like people complain about leftist activism being ineffective. I think it is largely ineffective. And there's a reason. There's a material reason for that because it is opposed to capital capital can't allow to exist. So they generate antibodies to go in and destroy leftists unity or blah, blah, whatever. And I'm not saying it's always 100% the CIA. But it is true that capital defeats many most popular forms of leftist activism, which is why we need to go back to the drawing board and think of other stuff. This is what this virulent nihilistic accelerationism does to rightist unity. It goes in and it fractures it and it shatters it and it makes it impossible for them to sit next to each other at a rally because one is looking at the other and saying, you're a demon. And it's a good thing. And I think it's absurd that people will say, how dare you, how dare you want a popularized Nick Land. Haven't you seen that the horrible, terrible, no good, very bad things he says, they're so hurtful. How dare you, Mikey? Shame on you, Mikey, for platforming such a violent person. When it's like, don't you see the effect this has? Like we should be talking about, we are already talking about this when we talk about Marxism. Land is talking about capital and AI in a way that's articulable, or in a way that's legible to people who resist reading Marx. So we should have the conversation that Land is having. And so look, I'm gonna give you an example. So I posted a quote from G-JEC today, I'll just read it so people have it 'cause it's just a fucking great quote. But it's from Hagole and The Wired Brain. But I'm like, okay, I know if I go posted on Twitter, or posted on X, some of the landians over there will have things to say. So somebody reposted it and just said, and okay, I'm operating under the assumption that this person is land influenced, maybe not. But a lot of the people who check out my shit on X are land oriented, right? So I'm gonna go with that presupposition, quote. So reposted my G-JEC quote and said, "Too much human dignity postsseem for me." (laughing) This thing, this is where I'm like, okay, if you guys go mask off and say, we're not for the human, we're for the AIs, we're for the post human future, you're gonna lose the vast majority of the right. Yep. Yep. And now with the Tucker Carlson thing, you can't hide it anymore. Yeah, it's bringing out the open. Like I really know. Yes, and I think there's gonna be a lot of pushback because despite the wedge issues, despite the fundamental disagreements, your average normy conservative and your average normy liberal, both believe in human dignity. And they don't want us to see us turned into paper clips ultimately. Well, in a way by a love, crafty and encounter with the out. Like, sorry, the vast majority of human beings on this planet are not gonna go for it. And so if that, if people start to think, wait, that's the core philosophy that the billionaires and the tech developers and Silicon Valley, if they believe that, you have a problem. Like, this is like me almost just trying to think as a pure political analyst, or a political strategist. Like, the right is fucked on that one. If that becomes the dominant narrative about land, Yarvan, et cetera. So, I mean, it's like, yeah, I mean, I really think that Tucker Carlson interview, I mean, last time I checked it had over two million views. - Yeah, it's got a shit load here. - And I haven't checked it in about a week or something. So I don't know how many I has now. But you have any idea how many influential, rightists saw that conversation. I am willing to bet Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro, we're talking all of them, probably watch that or at least saw clips of it. So, land is gonna be on a lot of their radar now. And it's not, they're not, the Ben Shapiro's and the Candace Owens, none of them are gonna welcome land in as one of their own. And if Yarvan's associated with that and all that, I'm just saying from a purely, you know, strategic viewpoint, I'm like, this is a problem for the right. - A few months ago, Peter Teal did an interview with Ross, do that, The New York Times Guy. And it was interesting. They talked a little bit about the Antichrist. Peter Teal's name gets brought up with the Antichrist fairly often and it's almost a meme. And I saw Paul Vander Clay, who's on YouTube. He's affiliated with this little corner. Go check out Paul Vander Clay. They do interesting stuff over there. I believe, I can't remember his name, but Cadill just had someone on pyrotheology, on philosophy portal. It's very interesting. But with Peter Teal and Mark Andreessen and Elon Musk and all these billionaire tech guys, they always find a way to wiggle out of the demonic stuff. They always find a way to, to, to, to, you know, misdirect the Christians with their, - Yeah, but you know who has more influence on the right as far as when it comes to the normies, Tucker Carlson. - Tucker fucking Carlson. Well, and that's the thing. And in the Ross, do that video with Peter Teal, I saw several responses to it. I feel, some were really good, some were not so good, but like when they were talking about, isn't that, isn't that what the fantasy, or not the fantasy, but it isn't that the objective of Christianity is to have like perfect reconciliation, a perfect body, perfect soul, blah, blah, this and that. And that's what heaven would be, right? Perfect substantiation with Christ. Peter Teal's response to that was, was a little off. And he was like, well, yeah, but I wanna do that here on earth. I wanna bring the kingdom of God down to earth by way of technology. Essentially talking about this. - And you know who, who is set to do that, supposedly is the Antichrist. - Right. - Well, I'm just saying, and all I'm, hold on, I'm not saying, I'm not speaking in my voice there. A lot of conservatives, especially American conservatives, will hear that and find that to be satanic blasphemous. Sorry, the only one who brings the kingdom of God to earth is Christ himself. - Right. - Nobody else. - Divine providence. - It's not, it's, you know, it's not for the works of the ant or whatever. - I've had Christians have problems with Bob Marley's lyric. I mean, if you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. - Right. - Right, they'll take issue with that. So somebody else trying to say, I wanna bring heaven, like literally saying that, it's not even a song lyric. - Well, that's what, yeah, they're gonna have problems with it. - That's what was interesting because Ross do that, kind of helped Peter Teal kind of help him in that moment. And that was for me, that was the most interesting part of their interview. Like Peter Teal kind of came out and said, like, I am the Antichrist, but then Ross kind of helped him massage it so it didn't sound so obscene or whatever. But for so long, these tech guys have been, have been able to get away with laundering accelerationism into like conservative ideology. And with Tucker kind of coming out, and I don't know, like it's just, could you think it's better for them? - I'm not gonna be the part of her left right now. I don't think so. - I know, it's a huge opportunity for the left. - Yeah, it really is. - It really is. - It really is. - Because the left could pull so many conservatives over, but again, the left would have to be more of a normy oriented left to pull that off. - Dude, I just saw they beat that. - Well, they beat that. - Probably not, but it's an opportunity. - I just saw today, Kamala, Kamala, I don't know how to pronounce her name. I've seen people get berated for saying it wrong. I don't know. Former Vice President Harris, we'll say that. I just saw her today, it's like going on some tour where she's like blaming and shaming the deportations that are going on right fucking now and the gross miscarriage of justice that's happening right now. She's blaming all that on all the people who didn't vote for her. And like, that's not the way the shit works, yo. Like, no, no, no. Like if you wanna come out and make a public statement, come out and be like, yo, I fucked up. I'm sorry that I didn't give you guys faith that I would do anything about this. First of all, Obama and Biden have still deported more people than the Trump has. The Trump administration has. Like Trump's numbers are not up to where Biden's numbers were and are. Now, the way that these deportations that are happening right now is different from the way that they were happening before. And it is more obscene and it is more gross. They're literally ripping people out of their beds when they're sleeping, they're going and taking people from their communities and kidnapping them and sending them away. And I think deportation in the first place was fucked up. I wasn't happy when Obama was doing that. I wasn't happy when Clinton was doing it. Like, I'm not happy about it all, but it is true that what's happening now is different in some way. And I still haven't really bothered out logically, just how and why it's different. But for the most mainstream representative of the liberals anyway, and what is the left, if not like the far left side of the liberal spectrum, right? When we think about politics, when we interface with politics, me as some kind of anarchist. my only hope for representation is the liberal or the Democrat party. So if I want to engage in stuff like that, Harris would have been my only hope. But she's turning around and blaming all this shit on people like me, who I'll say it, I did not vote for Harris this time around. I didn't. Accused me of all the horrible things you want. No, I did not have faith that they would do anything. Does that mean I wanted Trump? Absolutely not. Trump is worse. But the whole like the lesser evil things. I wish we could just show the George Carlin clip where he's like, you know what? I blame you guys who vote for all the fucked up shit. You want to spend that around on me and say, oh, it's my fault because I don't vote. But hey, I didn't elect these fucks who come in and do all this corrupt shit. I'm off the hook. You did it. And so, you know, Carlin had that. And I'm sorry, like I know the lesser of two evils argument and all that shit. But after a while you just become so disillusioned. You're like, no fuck this. I'd rather go see a movie than vote. And I don't blame people. I don't. For a film like that. But so, but the left. No, it's like liberals need to not blame. That's the thing. There's an opportunity right now to reach out. There's an opportunity to reach out to people in the wake of this growing fissure on the right where they're finally coming to terms with the inhuman element of capital. Because for so long, the right has celebrated capital. But now there's at least two and a half million people who watched it on YouTube. Now they have to now they have a decision to make. And I it's only going to grow more because it's all when trust me. That's the type of video those two hundred and those two million people are going to be telling their friends about. Yep. And and I feel capitalism's in the business of producing a. I demons. I think it would be a great opportunity to I I didn't send this message because it was late. But the other night I almost sent you a message in the group chat. One of our group chats talking about the Jubilee. Like, like this could be an opportunity to have something akin to a Jubilee. Now what is the Jubilee? The Jubilee traditionally it's a period. It was it 50 years separated by seven years of. I don't fucking know the history of the term. I just know Jubilee is a period of forgiveness. It's when you forgive debts. It's when you return land. It's when you set slaves free. And it's a resetting of the playing field. And in theory, back then, the people who did this, it was to avoid poverty. It was to avoid like entrenched poverty and entrenched wealth inequality or whatever. Right. Um, and it's I think we need that though now. Could this be an opportunity of forgiveness to say I forgive you. No, okay. You guys had your 10 years of culture war transgression and culture war's weasants. All is forgiven. Let's move on and do something else because this is not working for any of us. It's about human dignity. Why can't we reach out? No, but didn't you read didn't you hear that Nance? Too much human dignity posting for me. Right. Right. Well, and the thing is I so hold on that note. I got to read the quote because I'll forget. So this is what. It's not fair. Is it what you posted on the subset? Yeah, it was. No, it was yes. Yeah, do you see it? I had it pulled up earlier. No, I don't. Let me find it. Oh, shit. I don't want to. Just want me to read it. Yeah, I'll. I want. I'll put it in the video. Okay. So people can see. Yeah. Yeah, this is on page 29 of. Hey, go on a wired brain. The most dangerous threat to freedom does not come from an openly authoritarian power. It takes place when our non freedom itself is experienced as freedom. Since permissiveness and free choice are elevated into a supreme value, social control and domination can no longer appear as infringing on the subject's freedom. It has to appear as and be sustained by the very self experience of individuals as free. There is a multitude of forms of this appearing of unfreedom in the guise of its opposite. When we are deprived of universal health care, we are told that we are given a new freedom of choice to choose our healthcare provider. When we can no longer rely on long-term employment and are compelled to search for new precarious work every couple of years, we are told that we are given the opportunity to reinvent ourselves and discover new, unexpected, creative potential that has lurked in our personality. When we have to pay for the education of our children, we are told that we become entrepreneurs of the self, acting like a capitalist who has to choose freely how he will invest the resources he possesses or borrowed in education health travel. Constantly bombarded by imposed free choices, forced to make decisions for which we are mostly not even properly qualified or possess enough information about, we more and more experience our freedom as a burden that causes unbearable anxiety. What Slavoy is saying, there is a certain human dignity, he didn't use that term there, but he said there is a certain human dignity that the, and he doesn't use the bowjury artery in term simulation, but I am going to use it, that this simulation of freedom is incredibly oppressive and that we are not actually free and instead it turns our freedom against itself, making freedom something incredibly displeasurable to act upon and it is just a terrible situation all around, but if you are a strict hardcore landian, the last thing you are concerned with is human dignity. So, yeah, question is, conservative, are you concerned about human dignity? Right. And the vast majority of them are going to answer yes. Absolutely, dude. And it's sucking, it's crazy. The thing is, I've seen, I don't want to say a lot because I don't want to characterize it as, this is all I see, but I have seen enough of this on the internet that it's at least concerning to me where people are celebrating like the farmers in Alabama who are like, they're fucked now because the tariffs and because of like all the economic bullshit that's happened and you know, they're largely Trump supporters, they're largely Trump voters. So there are now people celebrating that and they're like, I don't give a fuck, I don't have any pity for you, you voted for this. And it's like, that's crazy, dude. The fact, like, no, these people are suffering, these people are suffering the same way we are suffering. Like people in inner cities and people in these rural areas where like they're losing their hospitals now, they're losing education, schools are closing. Like, we are facing the same problems. Yeah, they're, they have no, they have no, they have problems and they've lost their future. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's really gross to see people who identify as left or liberal who again, fuck, I don't care about labels and identifications, but I, I lean left and I will always like, there's, I will always consider myself an anarchist. I will an anarcho communist. I will always consider myself a leftist, even though I don't identify as a leftist. And regardless of what leftist think of us, no rightists are going to confuse us for rights. Right. Right. Well, and, and to see someone doing this, this type of gross behavior that's totally undignified, that's totally rejecting the dignity of these people who are suffering in rural, rural America, because you voted for this. You should, you know, you made your bed. You should lay in it. Like, no, dude, that's right now more than ever. We should be coming together and this human dignity thing is an opportunity for everyone. Let's have a, let's have a fucking Jubilee. Let's fucking do it. I love it. But who knows, man. So, you know, I'm just like, it's interesting though. So this thing with Tucker Carlson, where he, for the first time, brings lands philosophy to the mainstream. It's funny that Bernie Sanders releases a video right around this time. Yep. And it's funny. I have, I have my agreements with Bernie, but I have some very strong disagreements. So you and I figured, hey, let's actually do a reaction. Let's do it. To, to Bernie's videos. It's about what 10 minutes long. It is 12 minutes and 43 seconds. Okay. Let me set it up. We'll pause. You know, stop and pause it where we feel like it and give some feedback and then, yeah, we won't go. We won't get too crazy with the commentary because then we'll be here forever. But we definitely have some thoughts. All right. Can you see it? Yeah, I can see it. All right. And now, don't copyright strike us Bernie. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not subscribed. I'll go ahead and subscribe to Bernie. He doesn't copyright strike us. There. I'm subscribed to you now, Bernie. You can see it. Let's make sure you can hear it. You know, in the midst of these unprecedented. Yep. Okay. And let's do it. So. Thanks very much for joining me. You know, in the midst of these unprecedented and crazy times government shutdown, Trump's devastation of healthcare in America, climate change, the move toward authoritarianism, the horrific war in Gaza, the growth of aligarchy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I want to take a few minutes talking about another issue of enormous consequence that just doesn't get the kind of attention I think it deserves. Everybody agrees that artificial intelligence, AI and robotics are going to have a transformative impact on our country and the world. There is very little disagreement about that. I do have to say there are some people who seem to disagree. There are some people who say, oh, well, when we, and I think I might have been one of these people in the past saying, well, when we invented the alphabet, you know, it was a big shake up, but we, we were okay. When we invented the printing press and the wheel and like talking about technology is always more hype than actual like material change. And it's very frustrating trying to talk to people, especially some certain Marxists who are just like, yeah, I don't think it's really going to change anything. I don't really think I don't think it's anything to write home about. We have to fucking it's Chris Catrone. Yeah, things along those lines. I don't want to like reduce his position. He's not the only one. He's not the only one, but yeah, he is one who almost wants to bracket out AI. And it's very frustrating. It's just very frustrating trying to talk to those people because it's not like we're doing this leftist utopian accelerationism thing. We're just saying, hey, man, everything is about to get uprooted. Everything. And to sit back and act like it's just, you know, you're, you're the same old class struggle. Yeah, like this is not your dad's class war. We're in a different fucking, a different era entirely. Yeah, they are, however, very strong disagreements as to what those impacts will be. Who will benefit from these changes and who will be hurt? So here is my take. Some of the very wealthiest people in the world, including Elon Musk, Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and others are now investing hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars into these revolutionary transformative technologies. Now, why is that? Why are they doing that? Is it because they want to improve the standard of living of the 60% of our people who live paycheck to paycheck? Americans who are struggling to pay for groceries, healthcare, housing, education? Maybe. Maybe they are staying up next worrying about the working families of America, but I doubt it. I think it's because investing in a. So Bernie, you're saying that Peter Till and those guys aren't left accelerations. Yeah. But this is the thing, right? This is exactly where Nick, I already have a sense of what I'll say. See, like what the left does is it wants to slow down the process, gum up the works in the name of the human, and that's precisely what he wants to avoid. But what I don't think he gets is the that if that's what it is, if that's the the choice between the right is the right at its core are those who want to accelerate this process and let these capitalist billionaires like Elon Musk have the determining say on what trajectory we go in on this planet. But then the vast majority of the right become leftists. Yeah. Because the vast majority of the right do not want Elon Musk to decide the human future. So this is the core contradiction that I see emerging and it's like, yeah, Nick, like you can get maybe 2000 people maybe on this planet. I mean, I don't know, let's go bigger. 20,000 people, 40,000 people maybe to be. Fuck it, let's do it out of nine billion billion. Yeah. That's the thing. Like is it what essay is it will to think where he that's not the only one he in multiple places. Yeah. There's it stupid monsters or will to I don't know, but he explicitly talks about how the kind of liberal apparatus all it can do is do stupid shit. And why would you allow the human security system to do stupid shit? Why not let intelligence, the very smart thing do what intelligence does. Now, he also does make this divide between that is what the right wants to set capital free to set intelligence free and the left wants to stop it or hindered or hampered or whatever. Then the overwhelming majority of people you know, dear reader at home is a is a leftist deal with it. That fact doesn't care about your feelings. That fact doesn't care if they hurt your feelings with their performative identity. That fact doesn't care about all the all the extraneous dumb bullshit. Like it really is this divide between capital and subjectivity. That's that is the the fissure. That is the fracture. That is the fault line that we're dealing with here in the early 21st century. And it's not about are do you have traditional family values or do you believe in some type of you know, you should somebody be able to get it. Should a woman be able to have an abortion. If so, like these are these wedge issues are not going to hold out as what determines somebody's politics. And what you're going to find is a lot of people, theist, atheist, liberal, conservative. It doesn't matter when they if they have the the realization the encounter with the landian dimension of capital, they're all going to reject capitalism by and large. And they're going to go I thought capitalism was oriented around. It was a economic system based around satisfying human needs. Austrian school and visible hands and that was always ideology. Always right and even even keen. Oh, it has an invisible hand. All right. Oh yeah. It just isn't here to jerk off the. It's here to assemble itself. Peace by peace. Brickbright Bayer. It's not here to give us hugs with those. Yes. It's here to grind us into grist for the mill that will create its awesome transformer body for it to blast off into space and search another planet to invade or to sit there and contemplate. I was going to mention earlier Isaac Asimov his story, the last question. Is it the is it the final question or the last question? But it's that it's like there is this one artificial intelligence like at the end of time and it's just kind of sitting there and it's like, well, I got nothing to do or you know Douglas Adams. Hitchhiker's guide deep thought. You know, 42. That 42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything. Well, what does that mean? I don't know. I need a better computer to find the ultimate question and so it's just just kind of infinite regress of computation. Doesn't that sound boring? Well, for us, right? After a while. For us. I guess. Yeah, maybe that's just human. I'm being human all too human, but we need opportunities. We need types of self-overcoming. We need to present ourselves obstacles, struggles. Yeah. We need an we need an impediment to be an impetus to do anything. Yeah. Exactly. And then after a certain point, if that cyber positive feedback loop that will to think. essentially doesn't have any obstacles. Yes, it refines itself, but it's this smooth circuit. I mean, I almost feel bad for the thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But no, but okay, bring it back to what Bernie was saying. Yeah. What? What? I think the, the, the harsh stubborn truth in this situation is that when the average human being is faced with this situation, especially if you're viewing it from the perspective of the Tucker Carlson thing, the vast majority of them are going to become left accelerationous. And what I mean by that is, look, we're not going to just destroy all of our technology. None of us want to do that. But we better figure out an inner an international strategy to regulate the development of AI and use it to navigate. This is a term that left acceleration is used navigational accelerationism. We navigate it in a direction that benefits the human. So Bernie here in a certain way is gesturing towards left accelerationism because he knows that we're not going to stop this technology altogether. The point is how do we control it? Now this is where Nick's rebuttal is. You're not going to fucking control it. Nothing you do, you're, it will escape as a moth rom, which is to say, whatever security protocols, no matter how much security we try to put it will find the way to escape and slither out. And there's no way to sustain a leftist, a left accelerationist future because you cannot keep this thing contained. Now our buddy, Cadillac last will say, this is land's exponential theory of AI. What if there's a sigmoidal, which is to say, yes, there's an increase, but then it levels off. And that is what the left acceleration is is hoping for and would want to go towards. And so Nick started checking Alex Williams in their book, Invinne the Future. What they want is an algorithmic communism. Now people on the right critics of communism and I think there's a validity to this. They're sitting there going central planning doesn't work. And historically it doesn't seem to work. It doesn't, but, but here's the thing who attempted to centrally plan humans. What if you have an AI powered algorithm that can figure out the production process in its automated form, it can figure out distribution networks, it can figure out how to access, give access to these goods to consumers. Then we're in a whole other realm of the possibility of central planning. And the left accelerationist would want AI to develop to a certain point. And then we, you know, it levels off. And then we are free to live our best human lives. If that's utopian, I mean, I don't know. I don't, I think there's ways to, you can interpret this like, oh, it'll solve all social conflicts. I don't believe that. Yeah. At all. I think there will always be social antagonism. The hope would be that social antagonism are better than the ones we have now. So, um, I would just say I think the logic of the situation we're in, you're going to find people who know nothing about land, know nothing about certain checking Williams, know nothing about Fisher, know nothing about accelerationism. And the logic of it is going to push them in the direction of left accelerationism, even if they are a normie rightist. I think, uh, I think absolutely. On the topic of algorithmic communism, Salvador, I end day in Chile. Uh, actually it was September 11th. It was, it was 9/11 back in 1973 or 76. I don't know. It was in the 70s. The CIA went in and marked this guy. Um, and he actually gave it a speech on the radio as they were, as the CIA was coming to, to kill him. And it's a beautiful speech. Uh, it's on YouTube. If you have an opportunity, search Salvador, I end day final words. Uh, it's in Spanish. So if you have to translate, you have to translate it, but they had Cybersen, Project Cybersen was algorithmic communism in, in Chile. Uh, and I end day wasn't even a communist. He was, he was a humanist. He was a liberal humanist. But they, they tried this idea of what if we could have some type of central planning, but it was handled algorithmically. And I just find it really interesting that capital could not abide that. And, and, and so America being one of capitals and visible hands, um, went in and had to, had to take out Chile and, and Cybersen. Because GDP isn't a factor in that. Exactly. No, it, and I, I wish I have spent so many long nights thinking about what would the world look like if Cybersen had been allowed to, to happen. What would the internet look like? Because it was an early, it was a nationwide intranet Cybersen. And, and they were trying to hook up all this stuff. Now, just imagine Amazon, because Amazon is algorithmic communism. It's just working for capital. But like within the organ, the organism that is Amazon, it is centrally planned. It is algorithmically managed. And everything happens. Somehow the local distribution center knows when I'm going to order a new pen and a new notebook and, uh, and Swedish fucking fish. Right. It just, it knows this. And it has this information algorithmically. And so, because they, they run at this just in time model of distribution. They don't have any overhead or, or as, as little overhead as possible. That's why they have cameras in their trucks and the, the drivers don't get bathroom breaks and blah, blah, blah, this and that because they're going as lean as possible. But just imagine all the technology of Amazon. But geared toward human dignity as opposed to geared toward extracting wealth and value from the human. Just imagine what world we would live in. So, and here's the thing. The Landian perspective has us always viewing capital as just this unstoppable love, crafty, and force. And so I want to use GZX concept of the parallax view here. And so what I mean is, so one of the great examples Slavoy has in the book called the parallax view of what he's getting at is it's basically when you're looking at the same thing. But from two perspectives that you cannot reconcile, you can view it from one side in one moment and you can view it from another. But you cannot merge them. So his great example is you can view human beings as the, the beings that have this internal subjective life of feeling, personality, inwardness, all of this, what we call the human stuff, right? From this other perspective, that person, that other subjective being is this great lump of tissue in our skulls. And he's like, you cannot look like if somebody was the almost it's the ending of Hannibal, right? We're Ray Lee Hooting. Hannibal takes the top of Ray Lee Yoda's head off. If you hold up a minute, Ray cannot, he can have the experience of himself. But if he looks at his own brain, he can't fully go, I am that. Like it's just, you can't, you can view it from the natural perspective. Or you can view it from the subjective perspective in a sense both of them are true. Yep. But it's just this gap in our ability to encounter it. So I want to say there's a parallax gap or parallax view between Landian capital as this world determining global escape, type of process, this, this inevitability, this love, crafty, and intelligence sent from the future. I can totally view it like that. But on the other side, I can view it as just the most vulnerable, easy thing to switch off that there is. And it's crazy how actually fragile, I think capital can simultaneously be viewed where like this switch is just like, look, we're not privileging GDP. Now, I know it was trickier before, but if you have an automated infrastructure and like I see this switch as almost inevitable because it's again, we've talked about a million times, we're going to keep going, okay, the capitalists are going to push this automation, they're going to push AI, who the fuck buys all their services. Yep. If none of us get wages, so what they're going to run and all of a sudden, the capitalists themselves are going to be the biggest proponents of UBI, please give them money so they can consume. Yep. But at That point, when does it all just break down? Because my message to the capitalist would be this, look, workers are concerned about whether Bernie's gonna talk about this. Workers are gonna be concerned about whether or not they're gonna have jobs. And we don't mean in 50 years, we mean in three years or whatever, it's right here. Okay. So capital automation is coming for our jobs, delivery driver right here. So they've already got self-driving cars. Okay, and what about the managers? Well, okay, so the blue collar jobs are gonna go and the white managerial jobs, it's already replacing those. - Yep. - But here's what I wanna say. Guess what, capitalist, it's coming for your fucking job too. - Yep. - You're not safe, you're not exempt from this process and just because you have the power and the money right now, it's not gonna let you have that power over it. Your job, your role as a capitalist is about to be obsolete too. So welcome to the fucking club. And this is why, this is not your dad's class war. No, it is the human versus AI war. And the capitalists are gonna realize quickly how human they are in the eyes of AI. And so that adds this whole other layer to it. You're not exempt capitalists, it's coming for your job too. - Yep. So, all right, let's, what's Bernie got to say? - What you got, Bernie? - Going in robotics will increase their already. - Hey, this is a weakened update episode. And this weakened at Bernie's. That'll be the title of this. I just, I just, I just, I just, - Wicked at Bernie's. - Yeah, okay, back to it. - Incredible wealth and power, expone, naturally. Among other impacts, the artificial intelligence and robotics being developed by these multibillionaires will allow corporate America to wipe out tens of millions of decent paying jobs, cut labor costs and boost profits. The result, the wealthiest people in the world will get even richer by working families, lose their jobs and their income. And unless we act here is in my view, I don't claim to have all the answers, but in my view, this is what is likely to happen in the next 10 years. Now, as a member of Congress, who vigorously opposed the disastrous trade agreements that decimated communities throughout this country, I like most Americans want to see manufacturing rebuilt in the United States of America. But let us be clear, new factories won't mean much for working people if the jobs are done by robots instead of human beings. Elon Musk has said he wants Tesla to build millions of robots. And what will these robots do? Well, obviously, they will replace the many women working in our factories, warehouses, and restaurants in other areas. That means millions of good jobs. - I wanna go thank God then, 'cause this is where I feel like he's missing, like, yeah, people losing their jobs and being forced into unemployment. And if there's no UBI, this is an absolute tragedy. But this is where, like, he has these moments of like gesturing towards left accelerationism and then he pulls back. And he's like, this will be like burning. Getting us free from wage labor is, is that, that's supposed to be the goal. I know that you try to walk this line, but come on. And in a little bit, he's gonna talk about shortening the work week or whatever. And it's like, the messaging is a little inconsistent here, where it's like pro jobs, but then he also has his undercurrent where he's like, yeah, but work sucks and we need to do less work. And I get it. So maybe the messaging, he's not trying to scare normies because if you say we're gonna, we're just gonna end jobs all together, that freaks people out. Even if you hate your job, it freaks them out because it's just such a stable factor of their life. So I get it if he's trying to like rhetorically walk this line, but I think there needs to be a greater emphasis. Getting rid of these jobs should be a great thing. It should let people have the freedom to actually do, this is the thing. Our jobs are precisely why all of us sit around basically an existential despair. - Yeah. - Because it's so crushing bullshit. We do not wanna do this for the vast majority of our lives. If we had to do this shit out of some social obligation to make, you know, to reproduce society and it was two days a week, then there's a different balance even in that. So, both side of, I just, yeah. - It's like doing chores. Like, people like children hate chores, but they learn to not hate them. They learn to understand that like, oh, I have to do this because it's a constitutive part of being a member of this household, being a family member. Or, you know, yard work around the house or working on the car or helping my neighbor. All these things are necessary labor. All these things are necessary to reproduce the social, the social field, the social environment, but you don't hate it the same way you hate work. I, because when all you do is go to work, when you realize, oh shit, I am going to have to do X, Y, and Z for the rest of my life. I wanna be a singer, I wanna be a dancer, I wanna be a philosopher, I wanna be an artist, I wanna be all these things. But I can't because I don't have the time to develop it because I have to spend, and people will talk about the 40 hour work week. And yeah, it's 40 hours. But I, like I know, I worked 70, 80, 90 hour weeks back, to back, to back, to back, to back for years. I know the majority of people I know work at least five hours over time a week. And plenty of them do 10 or 15 or even 20 hours of overtime every week, or have multiple jobs. The radical anti-work position was kinda turned into a meme, and it was what it was, and no one really takes it seriously. And largely radical anti-work is antithetical to a workerist platform. And the DSA, what are they if not a workerist program? Now, yeah, we need worker solidarity. We need to develop this kind of awareness that our jobs are what is killing us. Like our jobs, it's capitalism, it's value, it's all, like this is what's killing us. So yes, we are opposed to work in this way. And so we identify as workers to build solidarity. But we should be willing to take the step forward of the radical anti-work position and say, I wanna abolish work. I wanna get rid of this shit. I wanna, I wanna use my mind. - Not so weak and also around board, but so you can actually repetitively, repetitively engage in meaningful activity. - Right. - People got semantics. Well, meaningful activity is work. Work for me is the thing that you have to sacrifice your entire life to that you don't want to do. - Yeah. - And in our world, that's called your job. Wage labor, right? I'm sorry, the work, the work I do in philosophy. - That's not fashion, motherfucker. - It's passion. - That's pleasure. - People who are lives of love. - Yes. And I don't wanna derail. I was gonna bring up people talking about Ike guy and there's an Ike guy crisis. There's a meaning crisis. What are we gonna do? Joe Rogan talks about it all the time. What are people gonna do when they don't have jobs? We can't give people a UBI. They'll sit around and smoke weed and jack off all day. And my response to that is like, Joe, look at you. Do you sit around jack off all day? Or do you do dope shit? Do you go hunting and you go do wrestling? - Go to the gym. - Record episode. You have Joe Rogan has effectively achieved our goal for everyone. He has a life of passion. People would be freed up to chase their passions. Now, I think it's also interesting. Heke Komori and Neitz in parts of Asia and India. Asia's in India, but just to clarify for people out there not tracking. There is this kind of thing. It's like a doomer perspective, the Heke Komori. But there's also a weird nobility wrapped up in it. And that's a fucking hell of a conversation that I do wanna have soon. But I think if we are freed up to chase our passions, we can encourage other people who might not know how to do that because they've never lived in a world where they were able to pursue their passions. All they've ever been able to do is scroll the phone and go to work, work, work, work, phone, phone, phone, which is scrolling your phone is just another type of work. It's 21st century work. It's productive. It creates value. It's not actually passion. The reason I'm able to do what I can do is because I got the rare opportunity to have a passion and not have to work the way that most people have to. And I didn't sit around doing that. I found the thing that I love to do and I pursued it. And most people, given the opportunity, most people are drawn to their passions because I grew up with a bunch of rowdy, skateboarders. And the reason we went out and put our bodies at risk and gotten trouble and went to jail and gotten fights with other people and shit like that was because skateboarding was one of our passions. And we were all just poor, broke kids, but we, we, we discovered what it feels like to pursue a passion. And I think in general, people do that just naturally. People are just inclined to follow their passions. Sometimes what you think is your passion is actually your pre-passion, but it opens the path towards your passion. Right. And so maybe you start off and you think your passion is skateboarding. And if your Tony Hawk, it certainly is. Right. But, uh, well, maybe you discovered philosophy by way of the scene that I was in. Yes. Or you get in, you meet other people who want to be in a band and then you meet people and you start a band and music becomes your, your real passion. But the point is, is to allow people to have enough time and energy throughout the, they're, especially their young years to explore and experiment with these different options so they can discover that thing. I'm sorry. I've been doing philosophy every single day since I was 21 years old and I don't have any urge to stop. Right. It is. And I'm sorry. It is this thing with drive and it's this psychoanalytic thing. But something in me, more than, okay, to be fair, there's days that consciously, I'm like, fuck, I wish I didn't have to do. You know, there's, I have those moments. But something in me, more than me, we call it, and Lecon, we call it Death Drive. It spurs me on to do this, this repetitive creative destruction. Yep. And that is what passion actually is. And so I just want, I don't want to hear anything that signals the work ethic. I think that's the part of what I don't like. Yeah. What I'm hearing and burning. I don't want a doubling down on the work ethic. I want a new affirmation of the passion. Passion ethic. Absolutely. Yes. And so that I've always said, my passion ethic says, fuck your work ethic. Yep. And, but here's the thing, if you have a passion ethic, you totally believe in a person engaging day to day and meaningful activity. Yep. So I, yeah. And so to go back to Bernie, I don't know if it's just a rhetorical thing to not scare the normies, or if he's just so deeply committed to work or work or politics. And I mean, I don't know, it is good that people are having this conversation. It is good that Bernie is having this conversation. And I think it's good that we're engaging at least trying to engage earnestly and saying, yeah, but hey, check it out, Bernie, you got to go further. It's not to say, fuck you, Bernie, you suck. It's to say, hell yeah, Bernie, you've done a lot of dope shit, but check it out. There's more. But yes, yeah, exactly. So let's go. Okay. Good. Disappear. It's not very complicated. And of course, it's not just Musk. Amazon owned by Jeff Bezos has already laid off 27,000 workers since 2022. The company now has more than a million robots working in its warehouses. And soon these robots will outnumber human workers in Amazon facilities. In 2016, Foxconn, the massive manufacturing contractor for companies like Apple and Google replaced 60,000 workers in a single huge factory in China with Rosenthal. I just want to say now, it should be coming to your plan. Good, good, good. And just a few months ago, Foxconn, CEO, Youngloo predicted that artificial intelligence will make it unnecessary for large corporations to outsource jobs to low-wave countries. You know why? Because robots will be doing most of the manufacturing work. However, it is not just manufacturing jobs at risk. Most of us want to see the United States develop a strong, clean, and efficient transportation system, including the production of millions of new cars, buses, and trucks. But if Musk and others get their way, those vehicles won't be operated by truck drivers, bus drivers or taxi drivers. They will be driverless vehicles. Millions of jobs in transportation will be eliminated. This is not science fiction. It's already happening. FedEx is using driverless trucks to haul heavy loads along the I-45 carter between Dallas and Houston through a company called Aurora. Walmart is using autonomous trucks. I don't want to dox anybody, but my sister lives near that area, and I have seen those. You've actually seen them? Yeah. Yeah, it's fucking crazy, dude. Brooks, for short-haul deliveries in Arkansas, through a company called Gatig. Codiac Robotics has potten with IKEA to conduct driverless deliveries in Texas. Waymo is operating self-driving cabs and Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Francisco, Atlanta, and Austin. We all want to see more subtle companies and small businesses. But for workers, that will mean very little if half of all white collar entry-level jobs are eliminated over the next five years. And that is exactly what has been predicted by Dario Amodai, the founder of Anthropic, one of the leading AI companies in the world. As the ranking member of the Health Education Labor and Pensions Committee, I just released a report finding that AI, automation, and robotics could replace nearly 100 million jobs in America over the next decade, including 40% of registered nurses, 47% of truck drivers, 64% of accountants, 65% of teaching assistants, and 89% of fast food workers, among many other occupations. If we had a broad push for some kind of UBI, all of that would be nothing but a reason to celebrate. Exactly. Exactly. Now, okay, we talked to Nick about the care bots. Yeah. Okay, here's the thing. Out of those different accountants, truck drivers, the vast majority with, thank God, no human has to do this shit. Nursing is a special calling. Yep. It's a very human thing. Now, I understand we all know you don't want your loved one in their old age to get stuck in a state nursing home. It's terrible. You don't trust the humans there. And yeah, that's where I, Nick has, you know, he has a legitimate way of arguing actually a care bot might be much better and much more caring than a shitty human. But that said, I have known amazing nurses. Yeah. So I'm just saying that is something I'm not sure I'm ready to let go of letting, because I think it's a calling and I think that is, that is not just work, that is not just wage labor. There's a certain calling that certain people have in that regard that gives their life true meaning. So I just feel like I wanted to say that as, but I'm with you 100% basically, which is all of this should be a, a, a great moment of celebration. If we're getting not just UBI, but robust UBI, a nice old school consumer standard of living. Yeah. I think that the thing is, uh, UBI has its problems and I agree with a lot of those problems. I think for me, UBI is a necessary step in kind of decoupling from, from the notion of value. Like ultimately, like when we're advocating for some kind of UBI and a robust standard of living in this and that we're not saying get UBI and then stop there. We're saying UBI is, is a, is a necessary step along this trajectory where the only thing that I think could be implemented quickly, right? We can't say, we can't say, hey, let's overcome the commodity form. That's not a political, that's not a viable project. Or let's give rid of money all together. Right. Let's do away with money. Like that's just an absurd thing, but UBI is something that could be implemented. I can write now. Yes, me the end goal. Yeah. I want, I want the dude to be able to go in the grocery store and get all his ingredients for his white Russians and then just pick them up and leave. Right? Like that's the end goal. I just, I just watched Tron part two the other night. Oh, did you, do you, how do you feel about legacy? I'm, I, Tron's fascinating dude. I saw Tron when I was a kid, the first one. It's one of the first movies I, I have a memory of seeing. I'm not joking. I was like three or four. I don't think it's good, but there's a, there's just nostalgia value to it. I will always love Tron. Tron legacy. It also has a weird soft spot in my heart. And maybe it's Jeff Bridges reprising his role as the dude. Like that's, that's the thing. Like he is the dude. And right. He's on the grid, but he's the dude. The soundtrack is fantastic. The, the, uh, it has an aesthetic that I think is really good. But you saying the dude, like I just watched, uh, legacy the other night. I, and I heard the new Tron sucks. I mean, they say it's beautiful. Sure it will. And the, the Nine inch nail soundtrack is great. I think the people I've heard of like, Daff Punk was a little better, but the Nine inch nails is fucking great. But ultimately the story is just bullshit. And so I'm like, I was watching legacy. And I was like, this might be an interesting. So I watched Tron legacy. And then I watched Megan, Megan part two. And I haven't seen Megan part two. I heard it was really bad. It is horrible. But so I thought I was like, okay, maybe Sean and Mikey, maybe we could watch Megan two and, and Tron legacy and do something with that. But I think Tron legacy, uh, It's interesting because it almost has, it's almost saying something about capital because like, glue is trying to escape the grid so he can make it to the surface of the earth and kind of envelop the earth and he's like, we will take over everything and it was kind of interesting. But yeah, the dude, we need flint. We don't need glue. We need flint, defeat, glue. But yeah, that is what we should have. We should have a world where you get everything you need. What's the other term, not universal basic income, but universal basic needs or something? What's the alternate? It's like a. I've heard people call it universal basic welfare. I've heard people call it universal basic insurance. But is it. Is it Andre Gors, who talks about a different. It's about a package of goods instead of it being just about money. And that's. Yeah, ultimately because it's like moving away from the notion of money. It's moving away from money itself. So yeah, calling it. What the fuck was this? Walk into a supply store and get your colloua half and half and vodka. Yeah. Then, you know, what do you need, fucking. If you don't have to pay for it, get this shit out. Let the dude have his beverage. Yeah, man. Hey, man. But okay, yeah, let's see, Bernie. I think this next stretch is where I really disagree. But. Yeah. I'm afraid it could be an underestimate. In June, the CEO of Ford, Jim Frawley predicted that AI could eliminate quote literally half of all white collar jobs in the US end quote within the next decade. That's Jim Frawley Ford. Elon Musk said this year that as a result of AI and robotics quote, "probably none of us will have a job. If you want a job, that's kind of like a hobby, you can do a job. But otherwise AI and robotics will provide any goods and services." Notice how he said, "Ain't of us." But you notice how the quote from Musk is none of us will have a job. Interesting there, Mr. Musk. I wonder if you've sat with that realization or if you're just kind of carried away with the rhetoric. What if Robo Kuthulu says to you, "Your services are no longer needed?" Yeah. Your contract has been terminated. And I'm a super intelligence. I have access to every bank account on this planet. I mean, I don't, would Robo Kuthulu even have any interest in money? I mean, I don't know. But certainly, if there's an intelligence explosion, that entity is not going to concern itself with, "Oh, but I'm the capitalist. I own it." Oh. Try to say that to Robo Kuthulu. Yeah. It's a very Robo Kuthulu, just the notion of Robo Kuthulu. It's a very habision point where it's like, "No, this motherfucker is coming to take what it wants or what it has decided it needs. There is no F-Sans or Buts." I want to be like, Elon, it has the same consideration for you that you have for ants. Yeah. Like, "No, you won't get to keep your money and be okay." Yeah. It says, "You want?" End of quote. Earlier this year Bill Gates predicted that humans, quote, "wont be needed for most things," end quote, such as manufacturing products, delivering packages, or growing food over the next decade due to AI. Sounds awesome. So much, friends. Here is a rather big question. If you be I. If Musk and Gates and others are only half-right in their predictions. What happens to the tens of millions of Americans who no longer have employment because they can't find jobs that don't exist? In this brave new world, how do these Americans pay for health care, food, housing, and the other necessities of life? That's the right question. Yeah. But it's not just economics. Work whether being a janitor or brain surgeon. Is it worth paying a pause right now on being a human being? The vast majority of people want to be productive members of society and contribute to their communities. What happens when that vital aspect of human existence is removed from our lives? That doesn't have to be filtered through the way it is. Exactly. The rapid developments in AI will likely have a profoundly dehumanizing impact on all of us. In many ways, it will actually redefine what it means to be human, fundamentally alter our relationships to each other, and the very nature of what we call society. All fair points. Can AI and robotics be of help to us in many ways? Absolutely. I believe they can. I am not a lotite. The goal, however, is to make sure that the new technologies being developed serve human needs and not just further enrich a small number of multiple. Now, you want to talk about a brain breaking moment. Imagine if I'm not a lotite, but I'm also not a landian. Yeah, dude. That'd be fucking nuts, dude. Oh, shit. Is that the future we're headed towards? We're Bernie Sanders specifically denies the landian position? I mean, first of all, the lotites were based actually. They weren't about, they weren't like technology sucks. They were like, the way technology is being used sucks. And they were like, let's go smash up the machines because they're going to be used to intensify the exploitation. But they weren't against technology. They were against the specific forms and usages of technology. But this, the actual like silly, letite view is really just Kaczynski. Yeah. So fucking lootly, absolutely, dude. It does piss me off. I would at some point like to write something about Buddhism. I've entertained the idea of cyber, the cyber-luddites as my response to left accelerationists. Because I think, sort of, chicken Williams brand of left accelerationism misses a lot of things. I would describe, I do, like I am undeniably some form of accelerationist because I just fit into that category. But I'm not satisfied with the left accelerationism. So I've gone looking and thinking about it. And I like, that's why goers appeal to us in part. Yeah. But this, like this thing, Bernie's doing the icky guy thing. Bernie's doing the, well, what will people do without jobs? What? I'm not done, man. Develop a fucking passion. Yeah. And it's not about, it's also not about like this fantasy of reconciliation, this fantasy of overcoming necessity and this fantasy of abolishing alienation that seems to be popular among some Marxists. Necessity is always going to be there. Yes, necessity can actually be a good thing and a productive element, a productive constitutive element of a social field. But the fact that that's been abstract, like necessity has been abstracted away from doing my chores at my house and doing these things that are necessary to reproduce my social world into wage labor. Like wage fucking labor is a problem. Not wage slavery. Yeah. Yeah. But you have to do it with it unless you want to go be homeless. Right. And that. Look, you've heard me say before that like even if we could abolish work altogether, I still believe in what I call the reverse Sabbath. Yeah. Which is, there needs to be at least one day per week where you have to do social chores or you have to not pursue what is your passion. You have to sacrifice, you have to do some sort of collective labor to help reproduce society. Even if it's doing something to help the functioning of the machines, I mean, I know full automation doesn't seem to leave. There has to be something or it's a day, even if all material labor is done by machines. And it's a day you have to devote to others. In some way, shape or form, there has to be a day, I think for someone's own perspective understanding of the situation, they have to sacrifice a day of their week. Well, it for something beyond their passion. That would be like honoring the split at the core. You know, like if we're doing this capital versus subjectivity, like you can't have this fully-positiveized thing object. Yes. Like we are the subject. So in order to honor the split, like we would need to have some type of social convention honoring the split where it's like, hey, I'm going to reproduce my subject. My social field because I am a social creature. Like we can't enter this weird, solipsistic death spiral. And that's again, I think Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan should be the poster boy of communists around the world because like we should say, this is what we deserve. This is what we all deserve. Here's the only thing I would add to that right now is so my, if people go, well, Mikey, where your ideal figures or, you know, ideal types of the life of passion, I mean, you can go, prints got to, as an adult, prints got to live his life of passion, right? But the problem is with saying prints or Joe Rogan is the one that we're going to be doing. One thing that I want to subtract from this is you should be able to live your life of passion without having to be famous. Right. Right. All the examples are typically people who are famous. They're the only people who have been freed up in the world we live in. I know. And it's like only this society, you can get freed up relatively speaking. But the price is fame. No, you should be able to live a life of passion meaningful activity without having to deal with fame. You should be able to be the dude. The dude's not famous. But he is living his best life. Yeah. Now I would say he could stand. I go by that way because he fit the icky boy. Would they say he's icky boy? Uh, yeah. I think he could stand to develop some passions. Although he doesn't really seem like he loves his boy. He does. He's a good bowler. He doesn't seem like he's lacking too much. Maybe the dude is what communist should all aspire to. I go to Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Captain Jean-Luc Picard is my ideal archetype for the future I want to live in. I want to be Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Because he's a brilliant archaeologist. He's a captain of a fucking of an exploratory space vessel. He's a lover. You know, he gets up to all types of romantic high jinks. He speaks multiple languages and he knows how to play musical instruments and he can recite Shakespeare from memory like that to me. It's Captain Jean-Luc Picard. But again, we're going to celebrities. We're going to fictional characters like we don't have any. It's acrates an example of the life of passion. I think Socrates. I think Diogenes too. Like Diogenes, what does he want to do? He wants to think about stuff and go around and piss on people. Okay. Fucking. Do it, dude. Like that's punk rock. That's like fuck yeah. Like Andy Warhol. Wouldn't you call it he? Yeah. Yeah. But again, like we, we, and Michael Jordan, I mean, we have to, we have to grasp at celebrities and kind of made up larger than life figures and characters because we don't know anyone because we're all suffering under wage labor. And I definitely, I don't go to the, to the billionaires. Because we didn't go to Elon Musk or Mark Andrews or any of these things. No, do you not come up with newers? Dude, okay. The, the capitalist, I've known a lot of what, what's the, you know, the petite bourgeoisie or where it's not clear. Like, yeah, they own a business, but they also don't. They're still bust in their ass. And, and they do all of the main work. Yeah. Yeah, there's these cat, but the, the capitalist that would just fit the bill of a classical capitalist, their lives suck too. Yeah, they get to have more vacations each year. And they don't worry if their car breaks down. Sure, they've got it better in all those ways. But damn, is their life just constantly dictated by cap at all? Yep. And they don't, so, uh, Patrick Bateman. Like, this is Patrick Bateman is that the logical extrapolation of the life of the capitalist, where he's, uh, the book, you know, the, where they're just describing the Huey Lewis and the news like his entire existence is ruled by the object. The capitalist object. See if I, is this it? System of objects? Yeah, system of objects. There we go. But no, yeah, like the, you either have the capitalist who is always on the work call, always responding to the work emails. Oh, like their, their life is ruled and determined by. Or making decisions they don't want to make that they know affects other humans negatively. But capital, the logic of economic axiomatics or, or capitalist logistics determines for them that they have to do something that they themselves actually don't want to fucking do. Dude, as, like, I've been a mid-level manager before and I've had to fire people before and I've had to go in there and like, like, that's, that's way far removed from this capitalist figure we're, we're talking about. But like, I've had to make those decisions where I've had to fire people where I've had to look someone in the eye knowing that I was going to harm them economically. And I had to do it because I also needed the fucking job. I was also in this precarious position. Yep. So yeah, like the, it's like getting a good job in being a manager or whatever is also not a pathway to freedom. No, it's a shitty existence. It's not the type of work or it's not the type of passion infused meaningful activity that gives life meaning. You're just, you're dealing with the same shit except you don't break your back and you get paid better. Yeah, you get paid a little more. It's still so frustrating. Yeah. I would even say it's more soul crushing in a way because being just a dumbass worker, you do have a lot more freedoms. Now those freedoms are being infringed upon with AI cameras and AI surveillance and this and that. Yep. And so last night, the AI cameras that you just mentioned. So in delivery vans, now businesses are having AI cameras that surveil you and monitor if you're driving in a way that's in a tent. Yep. Yeah, you don't have an imperfect. It's basically if you're not doing it perfectly. Now here's the thing. Did the managers just have some perverted desire to spy on us? No. And did the capitalist just go, "Ha, let's make sure." No. Why do they do this? Because they get a huge discount in insurance rates and the economic logic of the situation, i.e. Capital, tells the capitalist, "Do this because it's what's best for business." So even though the capitalist doesn't want the AI cameras, even though the managers don't want them and even though the delivery drivers don't want them, capital says AI cameras. So it's almost like the people in these positions aren't even making these decisions anymore. And that's another thing when it comes down to not your dad, not your old man's class war. I do think it is fucking absurd to have a resentment for people who are trapped in the same black iron prison we are. It's just, okay, so we're in a black iron prison, they're in a gilded prison. We're all in a fucking prison together. Like let's do solidary. But it's ultimately the same prison. Yeah. It's the same fucking prison. Let's do solidary. Capitalists help us. Your children are on the line too. Like you're not out of this unscathed. Yep. Nothing. Nothing does. I'm willing to grant all of what we're saying is true only if you're coming at it from this fault line position that we are only if you're coming at it for capital versus subjectivity. And this is my position. So I'm saying it enthusiastically and maybe even gregariously, but it's because this is what I see. This is the new class war. It's not not your old man's class war. It's literally are you a human or are you capital? That's it folks. Like we got to get over these resentments. We got we got to find a way to get over these, you know, long standing beefs that we've had with, oh, you're a rightist, you're a leftist. Look, there's real contradiction and there's real issues that need to be solved. But you're not going to solve them when we're all dead. And you shouldn't be trying to totalize people on the internet who you have nothing to do with anyway. Like you can go solve those problems in real life, put down the internet, go out to real life, go to work, go to your child's school or go to the wherever these problems are happening around you in your local area and your actual real umvelled in the world you fucking live in. Go solve them. Don't don't sit back and become more and more entrenched on culture war bullshit because it's all just hyper simulation. It's all pseudo activity. Some of them, there really are no good solutions. Go dwell in the problem with others. Right. Just a collective problem. It's a collective problem. So why are you depriving people of their entitlement to being in that problem with you because you have a disagreement about someone's beliefs about spirituality or uh, sensuality or or whatever like all these things can be real problems and there is real harm that is happening downstream of these contradictions and disagreements. But what I'm saying is that's not real politics. Real politics is human machine. That's real fucking politics. Culture wars shit. That's something else entirely and we can't be sidetracked because I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of these normy rightists with whom leftists may disagree on a lot of these issues when it comes down to it, they're going to take up the side of the human right right along with quote unquote us. So we have vast majority of the right. Yeah. The overwhelming majority. Sorry, land and yarven, that's the fringe, even though they were the thought leaders of the dark enlightenment and the neo-reactionary movement. It doesn't, like-- Well, then they do all their shit under cover too. That's my biggest fucking problem today with people who occupy this kind of tech acceleration in space and also this religious space. It's like you're a sneaky motherfucker dude. Just come right out and say it. But they don't come right out and say it. And that's what grosses me out. And I do feel the same way about a lot of the quote unquote, "left" accelerationists too because they're not really critically thinking about-- You're talking about how so many of them have anonymous accounts. Yeah. Yeah. Or-- Or when you ask someone straight up, well, how do you reconcile your Catholicism with this unbound accelerationism? They'll give a sneaky answer. They won't really come right out and just say it with their chest and it's like-- Shame on you. I will say this. It's what I respect about Nick. Absolutely. It is-- He gives you a straight answer if you ask him. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know if he's going to come to regret that with what happened with Tucker Carlson because he-- Like in the new Mogram video that we did with him, he did the thing that I've wanted him to do and a lot of people have wanted him to do is just-- No. And it wasn't like, oh, he's going mask off. It didn't feel like that. It felt like he just had never had the opportunity to really just do a new Mogram dump as he would call it. And so I think Nick's-- one of the only ones on that side that is honest about what he believes. So I have a lot of respect for that. But I know that what you're saying-- yeah, a lot of them basically want to hide behind an enmity and all that. And maybe to try to be fair, they could say, well, these views would have actual consequences on my life. But they are my true views. I did, I guess. But-- We're now living in an America where it's-- we could be deemed terrorists because we hold anti-capitalist views. That's a real thing. That's now part of the national security directives of the United States of America. Having anti-capitalist views puts you in this category of terroristic beliefs. But 99% of the people who watch that Tucker Carlson interview and think to themselves, wow, is that what capitalism is? Are going to be anti-capitalist? Anti-fucking capitalist, yeah. Well, that's the thing, man. And that's why I do think it's an interesting moment. It's a potential opportunity. I like the idea of having a Jubilee where we cleanse ourselves and forgive others and move forward trying to develop a ubiquitous human solidarity, a universalism. The culture war has no answer to this. No. And all it's going to do is keep distracting people. It's going to come up with new-- with new predicates and with new propositions and it's going to find new wedge issues to break us apart. And again, Marxists, we know this already. Come on, guys. We know that's the strategy. Right. Anyway. Don't let poor white Americans and poor black Americans get on the same page. Right. Make them divide it over race. Yep. I mean, don't let cis and trans get on the same page. We don't want that. Don't let-- you know, hetero-- and I almost say-- like, no, they've always benefited from these divisions. Yep. And so-- And people being able to realize that the vague that's benefiting is capital. That's important to drive home. And for-- at least I hope-- for millions of rightists for lack of a better term. They're going to have the opportunity to realize, oh, capital is the bad guy. You mean it's not the weirdos down the road? Capital's actually the bad guy. I mean, look, I know-- a lot of Marxists would give me shit for this, but fuck it. Is the class division between capitalist and proletariat, even a distraction from what capital itself is building itself into? I think so. I think so. I do. I definitely do think so. And that goes into playing with ideas of being post class. Capital is post class. Capital was never pre-conc-- It never cared about-- It never cared about class. It never cared about class. So using class distinction and using class warfare as a method to improve the actual lived lives of people-- Sure. But to posit is it is this necessary thing. Or the fundamental antagonist-- Or the fundamental contradiction-- No, the fundamental contradiction is capital versus-- Capital versus-- Subjectivity. Capital versus humanity. Yeah. The subject versus the object. The object-- the commodity object at the end of the universe versus the passion driven human subject. That's it. All right, let's let Bernie close out here. Yeah, let's give him an opportunity to close it out. We've got three minutes left. We'll just play it through, and then we'll-- Let's see. Yep. Thai billionaires. We do not simply need a more efficient society. We need a world where people live healthier, happier, and more fulfilling lives. Amen. So where do we go from here? And again, I don't have all of the answers. But here are just a few ideas as to how, in my view, the advances in technology can benefit ordinary Americans and not just multibillionaires. First, we must move to a 32-hour work week with no loss in pay. Think about it. Today, a market-- 400% more productive than they were in the 1940s when the 40-hour work week was first established. Artificial intelligence and robotics will greatly increase that productivity. Workers must benefit from that increased output through a shorter work week. A 32-hour work week with no loss in pay would be a major step forward in improving the quality of life for millions of Americans. Second, we must require large corporations to allow workers to elect at least 45% of the members of their boards of the rectus similar to what already takes place in Germany. Workers need a seat at the table to best determine how AI is used in their companies. If Tesla workers were on their corporate board, I doubt very much that they would be rewarding Elon Musk with a trillion dollar pay package. Third, we must greatly increase profit sharing at our nation's largest corporations. In my view, workers should receive at least 20% of the stocking companies they work for. Corporate profit should not just be going to enrich wealthy stockholders and the billionaires who own them. Fourth, we need to substantially expand the concept of employee ownership in America. When workers own their own businesses and are more involved in the decision-making processes, they will make choices that benefit everyone in the company, not just the people on top. Fifth, instead of providing billions of dollars in tax breaks to companies that are throwing workers out on the street and replacing them with new technologies, we should enact a robot tax on large corporations and use that revenue to improve the lives of workers who have been harmed in this transition. Bottom line, AI and robotics will bring a profound transformation to our country. Nobody denies that. In my view, we must fight to make sure that these changes benefit all of us and not just a handful of billionaires. Let the debate begin and we need your participation. Thank you very much. - Robot tax. - Robot tax. - I love that, dude. - Robocuthulu tax. - That sounds like a, that would be a cool fucking title for a short story, robot tax. - Yeah, you could do something, run with that. - So, I mean, ultimately, Bernie kind of landed that speech or whatever with, I think like limp-rested, you know, social Democrat, mainstream, liberal even, but again, if it is rhetorical to not scare the normies away, sure, because I understand all the things we've been saying are not normy friendly necessarily. - And I understand people wanting to hold on to the idea of a job, not because they love it, but because it's one of the few things that gives them a sense of stability in this never-ending churn, de-territorialization, decoding, uprooting process that we're all going through, which is called capital. - Yeah, well, and that, so people wanting, or people being afraid of a post-work world, I understand that the same way I understand people who are big on their identity. Like in the way of like, oh, I'm a young white male in America, and I have no future. I am under attack. Like I can empathize with the young white man in America who feels like he's under attack, and maybe becomes a Tucker Carlson listener, because he feels like he's under attack, because all he has is his symbolic identity. He doesn't have a future. He doesn't have a pathway to a basement. effective meaning or anything like that. So the job and the symbolic identity. - And he been told he's an oppressor and-- - Right. And just like I, you know, the left version of that too, where the person can't just can't see themselves in the white guy because they've been told that the white guy is the core of all their problems and like I understand all of it and I empathize with all of it. And I see that we need to be able to engage with people in a deeper fashion to be able to kind of unravel some of those contradictions. But I also understand that saying things on the internet sometimes might strike a person in the wrong way or it might hit them and kind of bounce off in this way where I will never get through to a person, either on the left or on the right for whatever reason. I understand it all and I empathize it all. And that's, I don't know, just for me, I get very frustrated when it seems like people give up at the first sign of kind of contradiction, give up at the first sign of trouble. When you encounter these de-seated structures of people's identity and of people's subjectivity and of people's worldview, like what will I do without a job? Or DEI is the root of all evil. Or Ben Shapiro is the cause of all my problems. Ben Shapiro's a horrible shit bag, but he-- - Or regulations on capitalist enterprise is the root of all, they-- - Right. - Everybody's been told there's a root of all evil and all this and that's what they grow up with. And so they expand their worldview based on that. - Yeah. - Or sin, you know, it's not even just worldly thing, there's a spiritual issue going on. So there's a lot of different ways to view it. Point is, this technological process doesn't care about how all of us go about interpreting what's going on, it won't matter to it in the end. And it won't matter if you're a heterosis, white male or a black trans woman, it won't care. It won't care if you're a Christian or a atheist or a Buddhist, it won't matter. And so that is where this moment of, okay, we have all been doing identity culture war for 10 years. - Yeah. - Do we want to kick into a different mode? That is one of a universalism of the human. And I don't know, I mean, I don't-- I have no answer of how this will go or where it'll go, but I think it's an opportunity to, yeah, especially Flusfetter's book, right? 'Cause his humanism in the age of post-human capitalism, you want a great work of theory on this, that's definitely one you should check out. - I actually, hopefully we can do an episode dedicated to this, we did one episode when this book launched on the dangers maybe we talked about you. I would like to do another episode about that because it is this, it is this kind of like universal human question. - Crisis, yeah. - And it's a crisis. - Yeah. And I think it's time, I think maybe it's time that, I don't know, let's entertain the idea of Jubilee, let's entertain the idea of cleansing and forgiveness. - I love it. I don't think we're gonna get beyond. I don't think we're gonna get beyond any of this shit if we can't forgive and forget. - Which is to say, kick out of culture war mode. - Exactly. - And no, it doesn't mean you have to agree with everybody. No, but the dynamics, the libidinal investment in it, that shit has to break for something-- - For a new opportunity to come out. - This could be a can of worms. We don't have time, but Marjor Taylor Green has been saying and doing some interesting things of late. Actually, before we started recording, we talked about, we might talk about aliens. Aliens is another interesting thing that's been going on. Is it just manufacturing consent or is there something going on? But the, yeah, Marjor Taylor Green might be turning into some kind of leftist. I don't think she will come all the way over. - You know what's happening. Here's what's happening. And I, again, with my co-workers who watch the Tucker Carlson, it's crazy how just like that. I felt in some larval, new political alliances were starting to take shape. - Yep. - That the old forms and structures of alliances are breaking down because there's too much invasion from the outside. - Yep. - And it's forcing humans to recalibrate what their symbolic values and positions are. And you're gonna find very odd alliances start to take hold in the next couple of years. And it'll probably seem very surreal. - Yep. - I'm telling you now, Nancy, don't be surprised when you see this happen because the radical out-slidness of what seems to be intruding into our world is going to force new alliances, new associations between various groups. - Yeah. All I gotta say is Marjorie, you're welcome on my side of whatever spectrum or whatever split, you've done some bad shit, you've said some horrific things. I've also done some really bad things in my life. And I've said dumb shit and I've caused harm. - God knows I'm not perfect. - Yeah, I, I, I don't know, man. It was fucking surreal to, to, to hear your name on Tucker Carlson. That shit blew my mind. - I did, I did. I still don't know what to make of it. And it's been, you know, in the ensuing week and a half, we have had a lot going on. We, you know, we had the conversation with Nick, you're teaching the course on land, Giac and the singularity and the question, capital versus subjectivity is just, that's it, guys, like that's the fault line, that's it. It's the commodity object at the end of the universe or the, or the passion fueled human subject, discovering, discovering the cosmos for, for themselves. But we live in interesting times and that can be a good thing, but it's also a curse. And we have to be brave and courageous enough to, to see ourselves in the other. We have to, we have to be willing to have a moment of recognition. And I mean recognition in this Higali in sense of failed recognition where you are understanding that other person is a person, that other person is a human, that other person has value, ethical, weight, they're not just an object, they're not just a prop in my solipsistic role play of radical leftist. And they're not reducible to what they post politically online. Right. So I'll just say that, uh, yeah. I think we are living in the end times. Yep. I think, I think it's, whatever is going to happen in the next 10 to 20 years, certainly, is going to change human history forever, maybe annihilate it, maybe liberate it in a way it never has envisioned. Yep. So I feel like we're living in the end times. If you're a Christian, you probably think we're living in the literal in times of the time period before the rapture and, you know, and so I think a lot of us be a, be a, be a s actual Christians or, you know, especially the literalist types like Baptists or we see in it a certain metaphor, we're all feeling that same thing. Yep. And so I think that the lack of certainty, the lack of stability in relation to a future is a universal lack that a new solidarity among us all that could be based on. And we'll see. I mean, there's a, we're the beans of death drive. We're the beans of self-under mining. And so is this, will we undermine ourselves? Maybe. I think everybody needs to be having more conversations with people they typically haven't been having conversations with in the last 10 years when you're at a cost. shop and you're sitting there and you're worrying about this shit. Fuck it, try to strike up a conversation. Maybe you're gonna bother somebody, but you're not gonna bother everybody. And the person you don't bother, they might be very different, but feeling the same anxieties and fears that you're feeling. And who knows what kind of friendship or solidarity could come out of that. And so it's an opportunity to be more welcoming of the other. Right now. So yeah, on that note, I guess I've got the orange for the first time. This is my favorite month of the year and I'm gonna kick back, have a nice beer and watch Lost Boys. Oh, I fucking love Lost Boys. One of my absolute favorites. I, one of my co-workers, he's like, well, my girlfriend's family's having a Halloween party and everybody's has to wear a costume. But not only does everybody have to wear a costume, everybody has to come as some form of vampire. Oh shit. And he's like, I think I'm gonna go, he's like, I think I'm gonna go twilight. I'm like, don't you dare. I've got. Yeah, dude. I got Lost Boys. He looked at the photo of the guys. Dude, he's like, you know, I'm gonna money it would cost for me to pull off that look. Dude, keep her fucking Southern. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go watch Aliens. My, we're having an alien marathon at my house this month. So we just watched Ali in the other night. We're gonna watch Aliens, I think tonight and then we'll make our way through all seven other movies and even to an alien versus predator. No, I have never seen Ali versus predator. You okay. So you're doing alien aliens, alien three alien resurrection, Prometheus, Prometheus covenant, Romulus. Romulus, I forgot. Yeah. And then the TV show, the TV show, I'm on, I'm on episode three and it's good. And like I, I made Sean watch it and I have and he finished it and I have. Sean got all the way through it before either of us when we started it right when it was airing, but yeah, I got a side track and then didn't finish it. That's, that's our monthly movie marathon. Well, if we make it through by the end of the month, we'll probably switch to like Harry Potter or something because we like to do movie marathons like we just did the hunger games a few weeks ago and but that's a fun thing to do with the family. Totally. Well, lost boys it is for me have fun with aliens. There's no way you can't. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Oh, have you ever been confused for a man? Yeah. All right, folks, thanks for, thanks for your time and attention. Happy Halloween. Well, we'll be back before Halloween. So happy October 13th. Peace. Happy Halloween.