The Full Evidence Epstein was a Spy w/ Saagar Enjeti

What's up everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. You know, there was a vote by the House Committee to see if we could get the whole Epstein file released and Shockingly some of these politicians, I believe I don't many other one two three four five six seven of them Said that it's probably not a good idea that we release the full detailed Epstein file and You know what we could do is just decide to move on to something else. I'm sure there'll be other news stories or maybe we could bring somebody who's become quite the expert at the Epstein Story phenomenal podcast are good good friend song and Jenny Yeah, I saw your episode with Tucker was absolutely amazing and like I didn't realize how detailed in depth your knowledge It's brother. He's got a kid now. So yeah, so now yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true Exactly. I have a lady girl. Yeah, so I did do the research, but I That's what all good men do. Yeah, yeah, so maybe it's a good idea that we just kind of like start with the case for Epstein Being intelligence because what I've seen quite recently is a lot of people kind of wiping the record and acting like this is pure Conspiracy didn't did have any ties or connections and I think there's a lot of like We have a lot of tidbits of information that we've all kind of collected. There's a collective conscious that he absolutely is So like what is the argument for it maybe give us some backstory? I know you put together something amazing. So just break it down. Who is this? Character that we all think we know so well. I'll start off on the top I totally understand people who are saying it's conspiracy theory and in large part I think it's because it's been wildly overstated by some people which is natural in open environment right there Like he's obviously Mossad. He's obviously CIA. This is part of a blackmail ring and in my opinion the American people actually have it right They just don't have the language the facts and they need to pull it together and I want them to have the information that they have to be able to make that case Especially whenever we have the Israeli prime former Israeli prime minister Nafi Talib Bennett just yesterday who said Unequivocally Epstein did not work for Mossad now remember, you know, there are key terms here that matter work is not the same as Asset or worked with or worked with at some time and this is the master game that these people play the non-denial denial It's one of the most classic things in the history really of Washington So let's start at the very very very beginning and I've put together some stuff That's why I have my laptop here with me so the first time that we can see any link between Jeffrey Epstein and somebody who would become Eventually very important to a story in the intelligence world is in 1974 So 1974 right here in New York City where we are today Jeffrey Epstein despite having no college degree and being a dropout from New York University is hired by Donald bar Now why does that last name sound familiar? Donald bar is the father of William bar who is the US Attorney General under Donald Trump in 2019 who actually presides over the investigation into the Jeffrey Epstein suicide I'll just call it a death here for now So Donald bar in 1974 hires Jeffrey Epstein at the Dalton School Does Donald bar have intelligence connections from the cell he certainly does as a would be a surprise to all of you as do all of the Story families of the people were connected to the most elite private schools here in New York City So here we have a New York Times report from 2019 Jeffrey Epstein taught at Dalton his behavior was noticed and what they talk about Specifically is that Epstein even here in his early 20s is already exhibiting the pedophile behavior that it becomes known for He starts harassing a lot of young girls and in the span of just one year finds himself basically under investigation and departs under weird circumstances after teaching math here at the Dalton School So the question is why did Donald bar higher Jeffrey Epstein a person at the Dalton School to teach math but despite having no credentials No college degree. I mean you can't even get a job at a public school without a college degree in a teacher certification Let me ask you first time. Okay, so let me ask you this is it And I think it's important to just give pushbacks so we kind of understand how he want to call it pushback. Yeah, my My dad at a college degree he walks in and he asks if he can be a Work in the news station. Sure, and so this is back and like the seven and he's able to get a job working in a new stage Eventually was on air so there was a different time could teachers just teach at an elite private school That's a thing so no Not common the Donald bar and by the way actually departed the school at the very same time as Jeffrey Epstein The cope from Donald bar and others the explanation is that he very often had an unconventional hiring strategy But you know people who attended Dalton and others basically said it was a very weird hire at the time and nobody still to this day Really has an explanation for why that's a very first known link and it's weird. Okay. Let's just be honest It's weird so from 1974 1975 we have the departure so somewhere around 1976 Jeffrey Epstein needs a guy named ACE Greenberg ACE Greenberg of Bear Stearns And of course you guys know for the younger audience out there Bear Stearns is one of the most storied investment banks in Wall Street history Went down in 2008 so ACE Greenberg whose child goes to Bear Stearns means Jeffrey Epstein Essentially it's some sort of like parent event. So here we have Jeffrey Epstein's deep ties to top Wall Street So it talks here about Green just like in our sense. Yeah, so Jeffrey Epstein was teaching at Dalton ACE Greenberg's kid at Dalton correct Till's relationship with the say a screenberg guy who is one of the what the heads of the bank? Yes, he's the head of the bank one of the most powerful man on all Wall Street in the 1970s and 1980s God so Jeff so ACE Greenberg hires Jeffrey Epstein initially on the options desk What ends up happening is Epstein's actually not very good at that. So they're like what's this guy any good at? So they transfer him to basically the high net worth money management desk and Effectively for the next five years Jeffrey Epstein learns the art and really the art of money laundering He manages high net worth individuals money what he does with that money is he specializes in offshore counting and And specifically what he does is he gets deep in with all of these shadowy figures who are experts and the Cayman Islands and moving money off shores Now this is the first known time that he begins to develop the Portfolio that will make him very useful for intelligence agencies in the future now sorry We're quick are they moving money off shore to avoid taxes or it's initially to avoid taxes now But what we eventually learn is from the formation of something called IAG so after five years at Bear Stewards Jeffrey Epstein is fired for a regulatory deviolation basically he broke internal banking rules and Insider trading so there's two things that we learn here number one is involved in sketchy behavior from the very beginning to he's not Prosecuted he's basically fired let go and everybody keeps it hush hush I'll come back to that in the future because he develops a strategy there called playing the box playing the box as a strategy He admitted to where he said you can break the law and you can always get away with it because people will be too embarrassed to be able to Call you out for it which will enable you to continue your money long Because Bear Stewards would be embarrassed by the fact that they have somebody who's managing so much money inside of their Bank he internally called it so that's why he was so SEC doesn't find out the Bear Stewards Firester's compliance and they're like look we need to make this go away We just we don't want to deal with this anymore. He just needs to go so from that point forward 1981 Epstein forms a company called I AG the intercontinental Assets group I'm going to read directly here from the description He is a quote high-level bounty hunter who helps clients recover assets This is the first entree and to what will eventually sprawl as a global intelligence network because High-level bounty hunter who helps you recover money is not involved in quote legitimate business What does that mean recover money? Yeah exactly so it's in many cases He eventually gets involved with people who are running Ponzi schemes and basically keeping and hiding money offshore He sells himself and it's very unclear because none of the records of this have ever really been released But the description of high-level bounty hunter Indicates to us that his specialization and offshore banking is one that becomes very important to intelligence networks So this is where people might ask, hey, why do we even care about this? Why wouldn't intelligence network even want offshore banking and the reason why is in the 1980s? There were all of these very sketchy arms deals that were happening here We have in the United States the Iran country or yeah, it's just cold war and everybody actually has a very Distorted attitude as to how the CIA front companies work nobody at the CIA has a bank at JP Morgan Chase They say CIA that goes and buys a front company building right? Did you guys oh? Perfect example. Do you ever want to watch Argo? Do you guys watch the movie? Yeah? Yeah, so remember how Ben Affleck's character flies to Hollywood and gets a frontman to open a company Yeah, and the money is laundered through the front man Yeah, that man would be known as a CIA asset because he's able to open that front company So that's why it's very important to the CIA they're worth a CIA of course they have their own job exactly They have their own money in the case they put up their own money exactly But eventually get reimbursed somewhere in shady offshore banking thing on the back end So these are a vital parts of any intelligence network is really US Saudi everybody because of the C.I. Everybody does of course to work as a spew Exactly because you have to be a movie and then you get a wrong contra blow that's exactly This is a story necessarily in and of itself bad. No, it's a necessary. It's just a way that you do business There's no value judgment here So the point is is that at this time this is when he begins to develop a relationship and in somewhere around between the 1976 and 1981 with a man named Douglas lease now lease is a very important character Douglas lease was a UK national He's a verified in UK government documents as having been involved in multiple arms deals and his thought to have been at least somewhat of a CIA MI6 some sort of intelligence asset Douglas lease is an expert again in offshore banking and international money laundering in the age of 20 I think it's 28 and somebody can check my work on this is that at the age of 28 Douglas lease brings a young Jeffrey Epstein on a private plane to the Pentagon for purposes that we still do not know this is long before Epstein is a billionaire. This is one reason. involved, specifically in offshore banking. Lease is basically the conduit, through which he is then introduced to all of these very important people. Yes, Adnan Kashoggi, who is a very important person in the story, Steven Hofenberg, who is basically the source of a lot of this information, keep in mind, Steven Hofenberg, and he went on the record to Vicki Ward, who's the journalist who did the original expose on Epstein in 2002. He was convicted of one of the largest Ponzi schemes in US history. What ended up happening is he was trying to con Epstein, but Epstein actually conned him out of $100 million. But he, Steven Hofenberg, basically showed the relationship between Douglas Lease and Epstein, which Epstein got very testy about whenever he was asked, basically pretended, I hardly know the guy. Lease is the person who introduces Epstein to Hofenberg, to Robert Maxwell, and to this Adnan Kashoggi. Now, the reason why all three of those names matter is that Hofenberg shows the conduit of the way that Epstein was already working with illegal enterprises and offshore banking. The way that he alleges Epstein's stole his money was specifically through one of these offshore transactions. The other two names, I just-- - So it was the running of Ponzi's game. - And then he caught, yeah. - And then wrote a hit article about it. - And actually Epstein cooperated with US authorities against Hofenberg, and basically got him locked up in prison. This was only acknowledged years and years later. I mean, he was a master network, or we have to give it to him. But again, here's another link between the community, Intel, the US government, Jeff Repsyn. Here's a link to offshore banking, and then specifically Adnan Kashoggi and Robert Maxwell. So where are these two individuals? Here he has Adnan Kashoggi. Adnan Kashoggi is the uncle of Jamal Kashoggi, the Saudi journalist who was butchered in the-- - Oh, turkey. - In the end of the Turkish embassy. But for our purposes, what can we look at here? Saudi arms merchant, world class playboy dies. This is from his obituary in the Washington Post. So why do we care about Adnan Kashoggi and his association with Epstein? And these are verified ties between the two. Adnan Kashoggi is somebody who worked on all kinds of sketchy arms deals throughout his life. These people are very useful to the Saudi Kingdom to the Israelis because they are cutouts. They're not officially part of the royal family. Their money is used to finance various different arms deals. He has a verified connection to Mossad and to funneling arms between Israel and Iran in the past. All of this is out in the public record. It's effectively been acknowledged. And I don't even think it's really disputable. - I know you've spoken about this right about-- - I just want to make this incredibly clear, right? Where it's like governments and countries cannot be actively involved in these Cold War tactics. - Exactly. - So they need to find these proxies to do it. - Yes. - And those proxies might not necessarily be bad. Matter of fact, they offer incredible utilities. - Absolutely. - A Kashoggi, for example, for Saudi Arabia might be one of the most important figures in executing the plans of Saudi Arabia without getting the people in charge of Saudi Arabia dirty. And at this point in time, it's looking like, as we go through the story, Epstein might be an asset to the United States from America or maybe when we get into Maxwell. Or at least it doesn't look like there's anything incriminating on him so far. - No, no, well, I mean, to be fair, his pedophilia and his proclivities were kind of secondary to his money. Now, the reason why I think he eventually gets away with the stuff that he does in the future is because of all the work he did in the 1980s and the 1990s. - So there's four of these various governments. - I don't want to connect this to like a movie, but there's this movie, "Art of War," the Nicholas Cage is in. - Yeah. - And there's this, I love that movie. - It's a great movie. - And it's based on I think like a relatively, - At least first on it, I think that guy we just released from, Victor Bout or something. - Yeah, that's right. - For the Lord of War, I think it's good. - We got a six woman for the Lord of War. - Right. - And so basically, he goes, there's this moment where he's arrested and it's like guy from the FBI has been holding down, and then she goes, "Headless and somebody's gonna come in that door and let you know that it's time for me to go." And I don't want you to talk about blah, blah, blah. And to me, that's kind of what it's feeling like so far, where there could be these connections. And we might get a misconstrued where it's like, the government is involved in this illicit child fucking black male scheme when in reality the government's looking to be like, "No, actually, we're just running guns." - Yeah, we're running dirty money. - And we're funneling stuff between Israel and Iran. This is why, you know, the Saudi government can't facilitate an Israel-Iran arms deal, right? These are all allegedly more enemies, but a Kishoggi, oh, he can do it. He can finance that deal and we can make him whole on the back end. Now, similarly, yeah, go. - And lastly, I would say is I was talking in front of my, I think Morgan Stanley or JP Morgan Bankton, I forget which one was the JP Morgan Bankton. - At that time. - Well, this is later on. - Well, Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan, both bank Jeffrey Epstein. - And like, a friend of mine was working over there. And he basically, I was asking about him. He was like, "Yeah, like, he just operated with dirty money." And I think that's why, you know, the government had an eyeball on him because it was advantageous for them to know who's sending him $30 million from El Salvador. He was the banker and a lot of these banks will just take 30 money. - Of course they will. - If you're getting $10 million from a third world country, please believe it. It's not because there's so much slushies on the street. - There's some fucked up shit going on. - Yeah, so I'm just trying to position, at this point right now, the government might think that they have an asset working in their best interests. At this point. - Oh, this is a rational case for them. - This, we're not yet involved with eventually becomes the Patifilia ring. - Also, guys, toward dates, I'm gonna be in Kansas City, August 1st, in second, August 8th, and 9th, I'm gonna be in Toledo, Ohio at the funny bone, August 22nd, and 23rd, it's a lot of fucking Ohio, huh? Liberty Township September 11th through 13th. Let's hope it on bomb on those shows. Danny Abiche, Florida. Bunch of other dates on my website at ockershing.com. - What's up, guys? Mark Agnan here. - I've got some toward dates for you. If you want to skip forward, dude, I'm not gonna stop you. You know what I mean? I completely understand it, happy. - All right, suck his dick. (laughing) - His dick. - That's not bad, honestly. - That's not bad. - That's not bad. - His dick, not bad. - I bet it actually is bad. Don't do it, okay? Because this Saturday, New York City on July 19th, I'm gonna be doing an Alex's show at the Hard Rock. Come on out, it's gonna be-- - Absolutely, suck his dick, guys, come on. - And then I'm gonna be in Stanford, Connecticut, Hoboken, New Jersey, Levitown, New York. Chandler is on a San Diego, Burlington. I'm also going to Canada, Toronto, Montreal. A bunch of other days Detroit is in there and we're adding some-- - I just think you could suck his dick, guys, come back. - I said a new year. I'll see you guys at the show. God bless you all and peace be with you. - And like Mark said, this Saturday, July 19th, New York City, time square. - Fuck his dick. - Fuck his dick. - All right. At Hard Rock, Casino, time square, we have a happy hour, we have comedy, we have an after party after, come have a good time. - Wait, cancel comedy, ax on Instagram, link and buy up. - Let's move now to Robert Maxwell. Now Robert Wack Maxwell is probably one of the most central important figures in this story. Robert Maxwell is the father of Glean Maxwell. And Robert Maxwell is basically an intelligence operative from day one. So Robert Maxwell is a very interesting early life story. He's a Czechoslovakian orthodox Jew. He flees the Nazis, finds a way to escape from mainland Europe, fighting with the resistance to the UK, fights the Nazis in World War II, he gets the second highest medal from the British government. During World War II, for his exemplary service and becomes a British national, changes his name multiple times. What eventually happens though, is that Robert Maxwell begins to roll up the tabloid news empire. He's a rubric Murdoch of his time by rolling up tabloid news in the UK and effectively becoming like a sovereign wealth fund in and of itself with his billions. Maxwell is a very committed Zionist and somebody who is very important to the state of Israel. He's been openly acknowledged at this point as a Mossad asset. I have his code name here. Let me find it. He's known as mega quote, the bountiful source. This is from a former Mossad operative. - He's been trying to tetris movie. - No, actually didn't see it. - No, okay. He's a character of the tetris. - Oh, okay. - Like he's personified as himself as part of the story, which is one of the assets that they own. - Yeah, so then the Maxwell is again, just like Kashogi. He's financing international arms deals. He's very important to Mossad. He's very important to MI6. He's very important to the US intelligence community. But the thing that really puts him apart is that Maxwell is a committed Zionist and he works specifically on behalf of the state of Israel to advance this interest. And the most extreme example of that. Can we put that wired one up there? It talks about the inslaught to this. This is a very important article from the 1990s and it describes basically a piece of software that Robert Maxwell was integral in both financing and selling to the Department of Justice. And it was Israeli spyware that was installed on vast numbers of US government computers that was used specifically to spy on the United States by Mossad and the Israeli intelligence community. - Well, this was in the early '90s. This was whenever it was exposed. But in the 1980s, this is something that Maxwell was directly involved. - Has the computer made a measure? - Taken for the set? - Actually, I'm not actually sure about this. I mean, as usual, whenever it comes to Israeli operations on US soil, we're all like, hey, you should cut it out. And then we don't really do anything about it. - There's a great doubt. - Jonathan Pollard is a very good example of this. - There's a doc on Netflix about this, the octopus murders. And this guy, Danny Castellero, that basically tried to expose us. - Oh, that's Robert Pollard. I never watched it, but I know what it is. - It's fantastic. He gets murdered in his attempt to try to expose the inslaught's software. - All right, so there we go. That's Robert Maxwell. He's involved in things like this. But I can actually go on forever. - There's a lot of people who are like, - You're like, - Jonathan Pollard, do you know who that is? - No. - Jonathan Pollard is one of the greatest spies in US history. He was a NSA employee in the 1980s. He was spying on behalf of the state of Israel, selling them secrets. You can, yeah, there's a picture of him right there. - Oh, I did. So he served 30 years in the US prison. While he was here, he became a cosse lab in Israel, saying that he was unjustly persecuted. Thank you. even though it was the United States citizen selling secrets Israel. BB Netanyahu visited him. >> I think it sold the secrets to Russia. No, no, no. Israel sold the secrets to Russia. >> Yeah, he sold the secrets to Israel. >> No, no, no. >> He sold the secrets to Israel. >> Wow, okay. >> Israel sold them to the Soviet Union. Jonathan Pollard was actually granted Israeli citizenship, I think in absentia. BB Netanyahu visited him in prison here in the United States of America, basically saying we're always going to stand with you. The moment his federal probation is up after he's released from prison, after his sentence, he moved to Israel and he's never coming back. That's a perfect example here of you. You and the United States citizen spying on behalf of the Israeli government, open caught, it's all admitted out in the open. The Israeli government says, hey, we're friends, just forgive him. He was just a Jewish patriot doing what he wanted for his country, even though he was not in Israeli citizen there at the time, granted him citizenship, and openly campaigned for all our presence of the United States, Bill Clinton onward to pardon Jonathan Pollard. And they came pretty damn close, let me be clear. So that's another example of how we really treat Israeli espionage very differently than all other espionage on the United States. If you guys remember in the Ted Cruz interview where Tucker was like, it doesn't concern you, that Mossad is spying on America, he's like, well, all countries do it, all friendly countries spying on each other. There's an exception that we seem to make here for the country. >> Had we been caught spying on Israel? I don't know if we've ever been caught in a high profile operation. I'm sure that we do, and in fact, we probably should consider what's going on. Actually, you know what? We definitely haven't been, because I remember there's been documents leaks from the Israeli cabinet meetings. You remember the signal gate, the signal leaks? I published some of those documents, and in one of those was actually minutes from the cabinet meeting from BBs. So yes, we are spying on this really well. To be fair, we're spying on everybody. >> That's like, we're doing everything I can. >> Although they really did get upset about that. So it's a little ironic. >> They got upset whenever we're doing it, but not intentional. >> They're so adept at saying that. >> Yeah, we do that, or they do that. Like, he was trying to make it, but since everybody does it, it's okay. >> Yeah, but it's not okay. >> It's not okay. >> We should all punish. >> It's not okay when you guys are right. >> That's right. >> We're supposed to be all right. >> That's right. >> Okay, so let's continue. >> Wait, we should do it. >> Yeah, let's continue. >> Let's get away with it. >> We're coming back. Robert Maxwell. All right, Robert Maxwell, the father of Glein Maxwell. So this is how Jeffrey Epstein meets Glein Maxwell. His eventual co-conspirator in the child trafficking network. And Robert Maxwell, of course, is a very shady death. Nobody's still really sure how he died. He allegedly either jumped or fell off of his yacht, which of course happens to everybody. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. >> I mean, somewhat believable, but I mean, it's just one of those things where, you know, he's killed in various, or be dies in various suspicious circumstances. He has all kinds of luminaries at his phenols and whatever he knew, you know, kind of goes to the grave with him. So after that, in this period, we have 1988. This is probably one of the most important years in history of Jeffrey Epstein. >> Before we move away from Maxwell, can I just tell you a fun little tidbit? >> Of course. >> I want to get this right, and I have to check spelling and everything on this. But I wish I-- okay, ready? Right now, I think there are the one of the issues with releasing the Epstein files is because if you release a report that implicates people without them being investigated, that's a concern. And I think in Britain, there's called the FCA. That's the version of the SEC. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So basically, they have a process that you give that person that is named a chance to respond or submit evidence before the report is released so that they can address concerns which might end up altering the report's conclusions about that person. That process is called Maxwellization. >> It's named after Robert Maxwell. >> That's amazing because it fits with his character in the way that he needs to be prepared of that. >> That's why I have some media magnet. >> Look, actually, let's take a second. Why do these tabloids matter? If everybody remembers the whole David Pecker scandal here in America with Donald Trump, it's that they basically-- they're like private intelligence services. They cover up all of these stories. They often buy people's silence through non-disclosure agreements. And then they use that as pedigree with the richest people in the world. I'm like, hey, Donald, we held this story on Karen McDougal who accused you. So we expect something a little further. >> So it's actually five different tabloids. You can print the same story that's allegedly on all of them. >> Yes. >> Then the other newspaper articles and TV shows, they start picking it up. So before an algorithm, you have to create the trend. >> I'm here literally describing the New York Post to Fox News pipeline. >> I mean, when you're talking about it. >> Okay, so if it's an allegation like that. >> That is-- I mean, they're owned by Rupert Murdoch. It's out in the open. Many people who work there will tell you that's literally how it works. It doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out. But let's turn return to the money. So in 1988, very important year in the life of Jeffrey Epstein, he leaves or basically reforms IAG. At this point, it's been seven years. He's very important to many of the world's most influential arms dealers and other people. Almost certainly at this point is embroiled in some of these deals. This point is a very sketchy point because now he creates the Jep Jepstein company. The Jepstein company, self-described, accepts only clients with $1 billion. This is a year where there are only 140 billionaires in all of his existence in 1988. There's not very many people who are billionaires. And to have 1 billion in cash liquid to be able to invest is effectively unheard of. So who are the people that this is ostensibly for? He pitched specifically as quote, "an economic advisor to the super rich." No other services have ever been advertised. And this is the source eventually of all of his wealth. And so it's somewhere around this time in the 1980s and the Jepstein company that he signs a client named Leslie Wexner. Wexner, one of the most important figures again in this story, really the source of much of his money and his power to the way that it eventually becomes. Leslie Wexner is one of the richest men in America, one of the richest men in Ohio. Leslie Wexner is a committed Zionist, is committed, you know, donated and worked with the Israeli government. And I'll talk about that in a little bit. Leslie Wexner, eventually in this time period, effectively signs over his entire portfolio and eventually leads to power of attorney being signed over to Jeff Reppstein. You guys had a great exchange where you were like, hey, we have a decade of friendship here and I would not sign power of attorney over to any of you. There's only one person I'm signing power of attorney to. My wife? There's nobody else who's ever getting it. We supposed to do that. If we wanted to, if we wanted to, there's that's the only person who conceivably is ever going to get that. Are managers, do they have power of attorney? No, or they have a limited power of attorney. And that's a very different than his entire control of his estate. So somewhere in this time, in the 88 to 91 period, in just three years, he is able to convince this man, Leslie Wexner, multi billionaire, the founder of Victoria's Secret, to basically sign over all of his power of attorney and control of his assets. Even more importantly, over the next five years, he effectively begins transferring many assets from the Wexner fortune to his own personal portfolio. Multiple properties in the state of Ohio, which are actually referenced in the Galein Maxwell trial for the sex trafficking purposes. Those are Wexner properties. And then the infamous, you know, massive townhouse in Manhattan at that time, the largest private residence, you know, basically valued as some 70 million dollars. I mean, again, who in this world is transferring 70 million dollar townhouse, largest private residence at the time, the city of New York, over to this man. So let's make a steal mail for what purpose is there a purpose? For example, is he trying to avoid taxes? Yes. Like, give me the argument outside of corruption. Sure. Leslie Wexner has talked to his people and he talks people about this. And his explanation is that Epstein was a money wizard that he simply had ideas. Is that what we call him? Well, he said he's a wizard with money. He's the smartest man with money I've ever seen. The steel man case for how this has nothing to do with blackmail is exactly what you just said. And this is eventually what's hinted at by the richest and most powerful people in the world. He is, guys, we were doing money laundering. It wasn't about blackmail or any of this other stuff. It was a way for us to launder our money internationally. I'll come back to it. But that's basically the excuse that Leon Black gave. Leon Black is genuinely one of the richest men in New York. He was nine billion dollar network founder of the Apollo group, where the largest private equity firms in the world. From 1997 onward, he has a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein to the point where he puts him on the board of the Black Family Foundation. And it eventually comes out between 2012, 2017, he transferred $170 million to Jeffrey Epstein and to Epstein related accounts. His argument, tax advice. Now, his argument is that over that five year period, he gave him $170 million and saved to the tune of one billion. That's what he claims. Yes. If that is the case, all of us would hire Epstein. Yes. Right. There's no way to do that legitimately. And also if you look at all of the paper trail for this, Epstein was not a licensed financial advisor. He was not a licensed tax advice person. He was not somebody who was ever well known in the hedge fund industry. Yeah. I mean, this is the question about why are these super rich people transferring all of this money to this individual? I'm willing to believe money laundering. But with the Wexner case, I just simply can't get there. Vicki Ward and James Stewart, biographers and others have looked into the story. They really believe that blackmail is somehow at the center of the story of Wexner. I think this is purely speculation on my behalf. I want to make a lot of sense, especially for economically ignorant folks like myself, which are like, I'm not giving a fucking townhouse to anybody. That's right. Exactly. But there are these certain situations where people set up these trusts. They set up these LLCs. They set up these escorts so they can put certain to avoid taxes. They create these loopholes. So there is a version where he had found a way to do this. I don't understand why passing it directly to Epstein avoids taxes because Epstein would then have to pay those taxes. Exactly. So, exactly right. Like, why not put it into a joint trust that Epstein has access to? Why is it specifically passed to Epstein, unless-- For his personal use. Yes, for his personal use, let's be clear. He needed it under his name to validate him to do certain-- Which is what eventually we began to see with the story. And also, look, let's be honest here about Wexner. Wexner is the founder of Victoria's Secret. Like, would it be crazy to say the founder of Victoria's Secret? Our Secret is kind of perverted. And the last thing Wexner's been photographed with all these young women and teenagers. It's like literally, yeah, making laundry for teenagers. Yeah, I'm shocked to be told that this person is involved with someone here. So, again, look, because he's still alive and he would sue me, that is purely speculation on my part, based upon publicly available information. I'm not claiming anything otherwise. But the point is-- But don't they have to go far, barely at the growth of the models around the world? I mean, that's their business model to be clear. So, let's just say that. When do you turn 18 so I could put you in the front way with links? Yes, happens, right? So, that's the person in the individual who's at the nexus of a lot of this stuff. Now, let's say then what we move from there. Because that Wexner transfer sets Epsin as the King of New York, as the King of New York Society. Can I ask one more question before I-- Are there any people in finance that look at that transfer and they go, wow, this is a smart financial decision for Wexner? I have not yet found a single person. I haven't yet. In fact, every rich person who I have ever talked with about the Epsin thing has told me I have no idea what the fuck was going on. And has anybody explained Wexner as people explained why was advantageous to him to him? No, he just said it was a terrible mistake and that he trusted Epsin entirely with his money. He literally called his relationship and they transfer a quote, a terrible mistake. That's the only public apology that he's ever given on the case. It is like there's never gone into it. By the way, he's still alive and he should answer questions. It is interesting that we haven't seen him in an interview. Like we've seen-- Oh, we shut himself down. But can he see Prince Andrew in an interview? That's right. He is maybe the only person that we haven't heard speak publicly about this. A little bit. A little bit. Well, it's been years. I think in 2020 is when he gave his apology. But same with Leon Black, by the way, who resigned from his public company and has basically disappeared from New York society. Just daily, the former CEO of Barclays, Epstein's private banker, all returned to him in a little bit with the Israel connection because he's a very important part of that story. But he's also resigned. And now he has no, he's not CEO of a public-traded company. He doesn't need test-fired, doesn't need to give any interviews. He's filthy rich. You know how these people operate. You can hire bodyguards and live behind a wall for the rest of your life. So that's basically where we are. With Maxwell Sr. and when Epstein had met, did they do any business together that we know of? So this is the problem. We don't have the full records. And this is part of the ride. The release of the files is very important. And I will also return where I think defining the files as a list is very important because that's not how it works. People seem to have it in their head that there's a ledger, that there's a black book that's like paid or have kitty tape supports Israel. Well, it sounds worse guys. Like as a journalist, like what we're doing here is we're compiling information. We're looking at public stuff that cannot be explained otherwise. We're still manning the case. We're reaching out to Leslie Wextrin for comment. The IRS today, as you guys all know, has all of our information. All of the butterfly trust accounts connected to Jeffery Epstein. What's it? Butterfly Trust. Link to count, which the New York financial services, by the way, you guys should take this up here in the state of New York. They have all access to Epstein's financial records 2013 onwards because they find Deutsche Bank further business with Epstein for violating the bank rules and for violating New York state regulations. New York State has the books for his entire financial life 2013. In Washington, Oregon, pay out and insane. JPM and Deutsche Bank paid like $75 million to the Epstein victims, specifically for facilitating a lot of this trafficking. What my point is is that I want the house documents. I want the butterfly trust accounts. Leon Black, the way that he even paid Epstein and this was only available by subpoena power that we know of, was through some private jet holding company. This stuff is all masked in a way that their names were never supposed to be on top of any of it. The only way we can get it is from release and from subpoena from the United States government. Part of why the Trump administration's decision is so very disappointing. And so I know I keep cutting back. No, it's all to make sure that I understand this. It seems so brazenly foolish for these people to even be tangentially connected to Epstein. And I got it. Not before this time. I don't want to be giving them an out, but I want to be really understanding the situation. If you are operating with somebody who uses nefarious techniques to hide money, which I do not put past any wealthy person. Anybody who's got tens of millions of dollars, I promise you they are doing some shady shit to hide that money, to move that money. I know a guy who would fly to the fucking Bahamas with tens of thousands of dollars strapped in his body. It sounds like out of a movie. He would do a regular like, why are you snitching on me like that? No, that's a good one. That's a good one. You guys all know him. I just want to get it. So there was a regular thing to just avoid taxation. Setting up accounts back and I think there's probably like the 80s or not. So doing these things to avoid taxes is quite common amongst the people who makes tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. But doing it so directly with Epstein is what I find peculiar. And there's a part of me that goes, if they're doing it directly with him, do they not feel concern about his relationships and intentions? Is there some sort of trust there? Because like you said earlier, the CIA knows they're on some fuck shit. So they're like, we got to make sure that we're not associated with this. Why would you not? Well, that's a great question. Especially if he's been operating for a decade now and he hasn't been caught, hasn't gotten any trouble. It's like, oh, this guy's good. That's the defense I would make is that pre pre 2005 before the investigation. It's actually somewhat somewhat understandable for somebody who is not in Palm Beach from New York society. I would say more than 1980s from about 95 onward. It's an open secret Jeffrey Epstein likes kids. Jeffrey Epstein likes him. When does he fall in the word caught? So 2005, that's the very first investigation into Epstein, the actual law enforcement. So we could make the argument before that. Yes, it's greed. Well, yeah, again, though, because all of these people live, this is the, as you're saying, the super rich is the smallest world in, is the smallest group in the world. They live all over the world, but they're actually all in the same place, basically all at the same time. They're doing all the just the same. They're always in London. They're always in, you know, Tahoe, whatever, like Palm Beach. This is why they all know each other. So to a certain extent, I actually can't really forgive it because it's such an open secret in the 1990s that Jeffrey Epstein likes little kids, basically, and is trafficking young women. Well, before the 90s, yeah, I guess we could give them somewhat of a pass, but it starts to become out in the open. I'm not trying to give up. Yes. What I'm trying to do is like not be guilty of, of internet trends, which is like applying something we learn about and is confirmed in 2005 and 2008 with a conviction to everyone prior to that. I think after 2005 and definitely after 2008, like you're aware that you're doing with a convicted pedophile, other 100 sex offenders. Yeah, yeah, like registered sex. There's no excuse. But before that, I do think that there are these people that just want money and they'll do anything for money and they are already operating in pseudo illegal behaviors and activities. And there's this incredible desire and thirst for power. So they might be willing to rub shoulders with these nefarious characters. And there's some before 2005, there's some level of plausible denying. There is some. Even if they do know, they're like, he's not. And if he's like, I could save you a billion dollars, you might be tempted to take that plausible and I know that. Yeah, you're taking it literally. And I'm still not quite sure that I'm there yet. I'm not quite sure he actually was doing anything of the tax advice sort. I still don't know. Yeah, I still am like not clear on what he was actually doing. I don't think anybody's clear. Nobody's been in his part. The prop says what's so, but I want to make sure that when we're pinning people to certain things, like if you're staying in his penthouse after he's a registered sex offender, your pin, like there's no Prime Minister of Israel. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, did you have an office in Harvard? Yeah. Was that after? Well, I'm not sure about that. I have to go back and double that. But those things like, let's pin it right there. There's no question you have. Do you have a staff in office? A dinner in his house? He's hanging out. Like, can't just Google? Exactly. Yeah. And you should be. Yeah. So, so, okay. So there are these. I get it. I get it. I just want to make sure that we're compartmentalizing a little bit, not to say that they don't know that they're engaging in the legal activity. They just maybe aren't going on with a kid fucker using this as potential black belt or as an intelligence asset. Very true. And that's important. So let's get into action. Yeah. Let's act trafficking. And actually that whole way. Don't let me speed you up. No, you're fine. So, 1991 to 2005, I call this the Epstein heyday. So this is, I've gained control of the Wexner Empire. I've transferred these assets and these properties into my name. Gilein is here. And now it's on. So, if you look from that, the Gilein Maxwell trial describes many of these Ohio properties being used specifically for sex trafficking purposes. Right? So, these are just in late 1994, late 1995. Basically, move from that point forward. The Palm Beach Virgin Islands, you know, connection begins to materialize. We have the house in Palm Beach. We have the compound in the US Virgin Islands. The Lillida Express. That's the Epstein Island. Yeah. We have the Virgin Island Island that's acquired under the Epstein, basically a state. Then we have the Lillida Express that's purchased, the private jet. So all the pieces that are now famous, these all come into play between 91 and 2005. This was the heyday of the Epstein Empire. Because this is where you see the images of him and Trump. Yeah, exactly. 2002, that's when we have the first image. Although, you know, I have it in my notes for the Trump Epstein relationship. Let me go ahead and find that. No, no, no, it's fun. You stay on this. So, so 2002 Trump says, I've known Jeff for 15 years. So basically putting a relationship back to the 1980s, terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It's even said he likes beautiful women as much as I do. Many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life. So that's Donald Trump in 2002. Just a guess to show everybody here. What we're dealing with. We're dealing with it. Open the seat print. All right. So, yeah, he likes them on the younger side. He said it. And if you want, there's video. If you want to go ahead and play it. I have the YouTube link from NBC News of them hanging out. Let me find you. Yeah. For this from 1992, actually, can you go ahead and click that one? It's a YouTube link. It's from a NBC News package in 2002. It's some B-roll that actually shows them hanging out. So, this is the famous, you know, they're all hanging out together. And by the way, I haven't showed this yet, but there are photos of Trump and Robert Maxwell hanging out together as well in the past. So he certainly knew a lot of these individuals. We can see him dancing, they're at a party. Apparently in the mid 2000s, there was a party that was thrown involving Victoria Secret Models that was put on by Epstein and another associate of Donald Trump. Where they all hung out. So, just putting that out there. Yeah, I actually don't know. I love his tie. It's very 1990s. So, anyway, look, footage, it all exists. And I'm sparing nobody here. I want to be real. Two year earlier point, the super rich, the super elite is kind of a small circle. Is he not kind of a pretty small circle? They all know each other. So if it's 15 years hanging out. You're going to hear some whispers about one of your friends. It's not even a whispers, he said it out loud on the record. Yeah, he just said it. All right, guys, we got to take a break real quick because America is under attack. Our freedom is under attack. Epstein's list is being suppressed. And there's only one company that could stop that from happening. There's only one company that cares about freedom. 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It's Bluetooth time. Listen, not all of us have a 12 inch dick like Alex Media. Right. Not all of us look at Conor McGregor's dick and say, "Oh my God, that thing is puny. Oh my God, his dick can only bench press 25 pounds. What a weak dick he must have." And if you're one of those people, which I am. Same. You can also look at Conor McGregor's dick and say, "Oh my God, that's a micro penis." Unlike Alex Media. Then you need to probably introduce Bluetooth into your sexual regimen. Listen, ladies, if you're the guy and he's fucking awesome and perfect and thoughtful and considerate and he has a small dick, you might be dating me. And if that's the case, I would compensate by just taking some Bluetooth. It's got all the same active ingredients as those other dick medications. But this is one we trust because it's the chew. They've been rocking with us since day one. And as always, they got a special deal for flagrant listeners. You get your first month for free if you go to Bluetooth.com and use a promo code flagrant at checkout. All you have to do is pay $5 for shipping. That's it. Again, head to Bluetooth.com. Look at the safety information. Look at the details. Make sure everything is okay. Again, that is Bluetooth.com. Use a promo code flagrant. You get your first month free. Just pay $5 for shipping. Now let's get back to the show. 2002. Yes. Epstein story. 2002 is when journalist Vicki Ward, she works here in New York City, Vanity Fair magazine. This is the Vanity Fair magazine. And Vanity Fair. This is the very first premier magazine to say, who is this guy? Grayton Carter, the legendary Condé Nast, editor, King of New York society. It basically works with Vicki and says, hey, let's go right about this Epstein figure. Vicki eventually uncovers evidence of the young women trafficking of the intelligence community ties and all of this in 2002. How does she uncover this? Because she goes, she does a great job. She goes and interviews these people, that guy Steven Hofemberg, who's in prison. She interviewed him in prison and she didn't print his quotes until 20 years later because it was shut down by Grayton Carter. Now Joey, can you please put up the story from New York magazine? From New York magazine. New York magazine. Why Grayton Carter would be able to? I understand the name, Condé Nast, but maybe explain to you. Yeah. So what I'm having here in front of me is a very shift. The crazy story is that according to Carter, somebody put a bullet outside of his house, I think it was either outside of his house or wherever he was, and a dead cat to intimidate him while he is investigating the Epstein story. And so it eventually comes out. What is Condé Nast? Condé Nast, I mean, they own Vogue. They employ, you know, if you ever anyone was ever seen the Devil wears Prada, like that's based on Vogue magazine and Anna Win-Tour. That's part of the Condé Nast. But Condé Nast, Empire, imagine with Rupert Murdoch with New Stations. Exactly. And actually, dude, it's so hard. The audience here is going to be young. So they don't even remember the Vanity Fair heyday, like this was a big fucking deal. Before blogs, before like your favorite Instagram page, there were magazines. This was the beating heart of American culture. Vanity Fair magazine, The New Yorker Vogue magazine. Newspapers were information. Absolutely. And magazines were more like op-ed. Yeah, magazines were not just op-ed. They were actually the places where this type of journalism, I mean, there's stories that Condé Nast about guys were getting paid half a million dollars a year. They would write three stories a year. But they would spend six months like Vicki Wars. Because it was real with that security journal. It takes a few years to change the face of the country. Yeah, some of my favorite journalists, there's a guy named Dexter Filkins at the New Yorker. He's spent like six months when I'm favorite war reporters. They'll go out and report for six months. I mean, that's conspiracy theories about a 10,000-word article. Theoretically Watergate, whatever the conspiracy theories decide. That's journalists breaking a story that caused your president to resign, change the trajectory of the entire world. And now when it happens and you see like a 20 page article in the New Yorker or something like that, you're like, who the fuck reads this? And nobody really reads it. But at the time, it was everything. And that's why like our parents, and I think that we're probably a little bit even too young us. Maybe you just because you're involved in journalism so much. I have read about it, so I can contextualize it, but I never experienced it. But this was the heyday of like information. It created habitual reading. Right? Like just my parents had a subscription to New York magazine in New Yorker. And like every single one is a coming, it's weekly. Yeah. It used to be, I don't know anymore. But it's like, so they're reading it every single one. And the pieces that are in there, the assumption was that these were like real investigative journals and pieces and they're uncovering truths that take months and months to put together. So they really gave like the support and trust at least of maybe like, I don't want to say like more like coastal elites. Yeah. It's what you just described. The global elite. The global elite is very small. It's like maybe 10,000 people who run the entire world. And actually that might even be a little bit generous and they're all subscribing to vote. I mean, look, Anna went to her still an icon amongst the super rich. So obviously, it really matters. So Epstein basically uses the threat of legal action to shut down any mention of his intelligence ties, which he's confronted with directly, any mention of the sex trafficking and the pedophilia accusations. And all of it is dropped from the vanity fair article that culminates in the 2002 story who is Jeffrey Epstein, the mysterious man of New York. But basically it insinuates things about being with women and he knows everybody. He's friends with Harvey Weinstein. He's friends with all of, you know, New York society. Everybody seems to know him. You have the quotes by Donald Trump and others. And so what we see there is O2 is a very important year because it shows his power, his power to shut down Graydon fucking Carter, to his power to bring the Conda in ass empire to bear and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're not reporting any of this. The power of using Harvey Weinstein and others to basically call all the journalists and other people around him and say, I'm going to sue the shit out of you. If you report even one word of this, now it's important to note that like shutting down stories is quite common. If you have a PR agency or something like that, especially at that time, when you access really matters. I would even say now, like you have a PR agency or something's about to release on TMZ and you know somebody over there on TMZ, you're like, oh, can you just not put out this? If you hold this, I'll give you an exclusive on this. But there's a quid pro quo, which is like, if you don't release this, I'll give you the first dibs on this story coming out with this album. So that is, it is quite common practice. But to shut down a story that's making an allegation or multiple allegations this big, you need to have some serious weight and some serious quid pro quo. I think it's got to be more than just lawsuit because these people, I mean, they're, they're lured up to the gills. Like if you run some day, that's why I was trying to say, to understand how extraordinary this is, this is Tom Day fucking mass. This is the old massive. I mean, dude, even me and you are in others when people are like, I'm going to sue I'm like, yeah, good fucking luck. I'm like, all right, I've got insurance. I'm like, I know the first amendment works and New York Times versus Sullivan. I'll be like, I'm gonna eat your fucking legal fees for lunch and I'll see you in court. All right, because of the legal standard, if you are a public figure like Epstein was, basically at that time, the bar for defamation in libel is so incredibly high. - I actually really support that. I mean, it's one of my key differences with Trump is I think it's a good thing because it allows for-- - In the journal, is it? - Well, not just that, we can fucking go for it. - We can go for it. - We gotta be safe without security. - Without security. - So let's not-- (laughing) - It's getting dirty in a way here. - Let me get it dirty. - I'm gonna get into that, in another way. - Why does he agree to this article? Is it just Hupris? - Oh, Epstein? - No, he didn't agree to it. - Bikki Lord was assigned. - Epstein did not want this to happen. - Oh really? - And he never wanted to change the article to make it less, exactly, less installation. - He's actually going, really? - I don't even know how crazy this is to intimidate Greg and Carter, basically, to take out a lot of the salacious things. - To take out the intelligence. - With a fucking bullet in a dead cat. We've seen the Godfather. (laughing) - It's the same thing. - Yeah, he's literally mobbed. - Instead of a horse in the head, it's a dead cat. - It's crazy. - And there's no way to prove that he was the one that did it, but having those-- - He's not, well, it's great and certainly believed it. And great and works and has dinner with the most powerful people in all of New York. - That's spoken about this. - He is certainly not. He has not actually answered a whole lot of questions about this, so that's an important thing. - But does he give comment to Bikki Ward here? - Huh? Epstein goes on the record in some places, but we don't learn the full extent of all of their exchange until 2021 after he's dead when she begins to reveal a lot of the stuff that she was actually had on the record in this story. So this is the very first known time of a major expose which would have really hurt Jeffrey Epstein if it had come out that he's able to shut down. Eventually in the future, we see the same tactics with Good Morning America and with the Prince Andrew story. If you'll recall of that famous video, a leaked video from CBS or ABC News where she's like, I had this story, I had everything, and then palace shut it down. And Epstein and all of them basically came together and we didn't want to lose our coverage of the royal wedding and so we didn't publish any of this and she's like, I had this story from day one. - We didn't want to lose our coverage of the royal wedding. - Exactly. - So we shut this down. - The Prince Andrew story. - We would have access to the royal wedding. - Yes. So again, that's the quid pro quo. It's like, if you want to work with us, if you want access to this, this story that you know is gonna probably sell way more ads than your Prince Andrew. - Wait, what in this fucking huge? - You remember that? - So there's been-- - We didn't, America got up at like five a.m. to watch it. - Yeah, which is so exciting. - Yeah, I'm sorry. - But Alex, go go go. - It's good to ask questions about this. - I think we feel guilty asking because it looks like we're trying to create it out. I'm not trying to create it out. - I'm trying to just understand the totality of this and like where they would be coming from if they were gonna defend it. - So I said you question. - You said that's 2002, which is where the news came out. - That story came out in '02. - Actually, it was published in March '03, but it was reported throughout 2000. - But then she doesn't release the other part of the story until 20 years later. - Yeah, basically after he's done. - That means you knew he was fucking kids. - Well, and you sat on it. - Well, she didn't have evidence, man. We're journalists. We can't say these things. - I mean, we don't know. See, this is very important. - I can't just come out. - I can't just come out and say these fucking names. - Without evidence. - You mean to-- - And look, I talked about that. - We jumped to Mark many times. (laughing) - But I talked about the barrier, you know, the defamation stuff. Like, you need to have some stuff on the record. And she did not have enough that they felt comfortable going forward with something like that. - I thought they stalled the whole, they just took it out because of the intimidation. - It's complicated, they're claiming that it didn't meet the evidentiary standard, Vicki Ward's as otherwise. Like, look, I can see the case either way, but the point is, is that what's come out afterwards, is that Graydon Carter was terrified. And so it's not really about the story. - Mm-hmm. - He was afraid to be able to publish it. - So that is the context of his social power. - Afraid for strangers. - He's a afraid for his life. - But, okay, yeah. - Because these are different things. Afraid for your life is different than afraid for the success of your, what would you call that? Like a. - His magazine. - His social cashier. - His cashier. - And because if you lose access, you essentially have no cashier. - Right. - And which is ironically what Epstein is concerned about. If Epstein becomes persona non-grata because of this piece, he no longer can do the thing that he does, which is connect and liaison with super wealthy and impersonal people. - There you go. - All right. - So that gets us to '05. So '91 to '05 is the heyday. 2005 is the first time that we really know about of a prolonged investigation into Epstein and eventually culminates in the sweetheart deal of 2008. So in 2005, a 14 year old girl who was lured by Epstein Maxwell Associates and all these people, her father complains to the Palm Beach Police Department about being sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein. This leads to an undercover investigation by Palm Beach PD where they launched this investigation where they're able to connect multiple underage girls who are being lured by Epstein and Maxwell and other associates to the compound into well oil system. There's a documentary on Netflix. This is the part they actually did quite well of just showing the way that that all worked. Search warrant finds hidden cameras, sex toys, basically proof of underage communications with Epstein. They have him nailed dead to rights, probably 20 years or whatever, under state law. However, Epstein hires all of these extremely filthy rich lawyers who were able to go to the Palm Beach Police Department. They claimed that they were poking holes in their case. Palm Beach PD basically throws up their hands and they're like, look, I can't handle this shit. They're like, this is a level of, you know, this is a machine I'm going up against that I don't know how to combat this machine. They only have a bulletproof charge on him of solicitation of prostitution, but they go to the feds. Now the feds, of course, have the vast resources of the federal government, the department of justice. The person who's in charge at that time is a guy named Alex Acosta. Alex Acosta, the US Attorney for the Southern Florida. Now, US Attorney for Florida, this comes under his purview. This investigation is launched under him using FBI resources. They are able to develop a large case against Jeffery Epstein. The operation is called Operation Leap Year that is launched by them. Leap Year, uncovers evidence that Epstein has an interstate sex trafficking operation involving girls as young as 13 years old. - Two. - Now, this is a very important point. We have a secret federal indictment that was issued against Jeffery Epstein, where they lay out all of this evidence for a sweeping indictment, which would have put him behind bars probably for probably for the rest of his life. This is where everything starts to happen. This is where the sweetheart deal comes into play. And it's at that point, after the secret federal indictment, that they come to the Epstein team and they're like, this is what we have on you. Let's begin a negotiation, 'cause they're looking for a plea deal, ultimately. - Why are you looking for a plea? - Well, I think it's part of the cost of it. - I think it's kind of cost of it. - Where you bring it. You know, when the feds investigate you, they have to send you a target letter. They're like, hey, you're under federal investigation. You need to hire counsel, you know, just so we can get this whole ball rolling. I mean, something like 95% of people charged by the federal system plead guilty. So it's quite common. Most people don't go to trial. The feds don't want you to go trial. If they do, they're gonna smack you. You know, they'll hate you with a charge and a charge, you're gonna spend the rest of your life in prison. The vast, vast majority of people in prison, that's why they have a 95% conviction. - That's why they have their conviction rate. Exactly. So that's how they get to it. You know, and there's a variety of systemic issues. So it was all generally par for the course up until this point. That's when Epstein hires Alan Derswitz. That's when he hires all these bush connected officials. All of these answers were bush connected. - Well, no, no, not in Derswitz. There are other lawyers on the team who are connected to George W. Bush, the administration, to Republican politics in general, because George W. Bush is the president at this time. And it's at this time that you have the sweetheart, non-prostitution agreement that is agreed upon by Alex Acosta and the Epstein legal defense team. Now, at this time too, this is a very important point. Joy, can you please put up my tweet, Epstein flees to Israel while he negotiates his deal with Acosta. So if you go to the first slide there, please. - Yes, this is from a Wiki Ward story. Talk that Epstein had moved himself in his assets to Israel had reached the ears of such luminaries as Harvey Weinstein, Jeff Beukes, Alex Gibney, Taylor Hackford, Dustin Hoffman, Alec Baldwin and filmmaker Michael Mayler. Has anyone told Wiki Ward? I heard someone say, "Fame, ever since I wrote this article about Epstein in the March 2003 story, I've had dubious honor of being considered the New York expert on the case." Well, I've never been one to leave a riddle unsolved, so I called Epstein's office to ask. Around lunchtime he phoned me laughing, assuming he'd been in Israel, but assuring me, he'd been in Israel, but was now back in New York. And he says, "Would you want to live in Israel?" As he'd done to grace that. So he goes to Israel while this sweetheart deal is being negotiated. This is very important. Okay, again, very important is that he was safe in Israel for reasons that remain unknown to us to this day. - And he generally can't lead the country under this day. - And actually, yeah, Joy, can you go to the next slide there? - So what can you return? When he goes returns to America, as you can see right there, April 2008, Epstein returns from Israel before pleading guilty. Some question why he was allowed to even keep his passport while his team is undergoing negotiation with the federal government. - Can you explain how normal that is? - That is not normal. So that is extremely normal. - If you have money like that, you are a flyerist. - Yeah, exactly. - So while you're being federally investigated, they will take the passport because you are a flyer. It's very similar to what happened, I think, at least in the beginning of the Diddy trial, remember there was the words like Diddy was gonna flee and I think that they told him that he had to stay in America, right? - So I don't have the, so to be clear, I don't think it's while investigation. There are other, I'm not a lawyer, but the way I'd read about it is it was very uncommon at that time, especially after you agreed to plead guilty. 'Cause remember, he pleased, he agrees to plead guilty under a non-proscution agreement in September 2007. This is April 2008. During this period, he is in Israel, where he's effectively, he's going to plead guilty. - 2007 to 2008. So 2007 to 2008 is while he is in Israel. Again, basically. The theory was the open talking New York society, the Vicky Ward heard is that Epstein had moved himself and all his assets to Israel. This is apparently by the way a common thing, relatively common for pedophiles who are Jewish in the United States who actually have fled to Israel to escape prosecution. Really? Yeah. Actually, Joey, can you go down the Gwengrenwald? That is a bad look for Israel, dude. How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel? Why do they accept it? Well, Israel has the right to return for every Jew in the world. It's called aliyah. So they're taking advantage of like a, yeah, some of them are taking advantage of basically being able to go to Israel. It's complicated as well in terms of extradition agreements, etc. But Gwengrenwald flagged that piece to me. How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice? But sorry, just to try to understand this, is that something that the United States just allows for anybody? I, again, I actually don't know. I know, I only learned of it yesterday. I didn't realize that it wasn't just Epstein that there's just like a common enough phenomenon that people have written a story about it before I need to go look into it. In general, I would hope personally that we use our influence with all allies or any extradition agreement that anybody charged with a crime like this against children be immediately extradited to the United States. I was in America because I, I mean, look, my friends that are in trouble with Indian government over the joke, they took their passports. Yeah, they just got them back. But like, I don't even know if one of them got them back. You're under arrest for freedom of speech potentially. We're going to trial. You have my passport. So, you guys are on trial for pedophilia, not on trial. He's in an investigation. He's in investigation and eventually a non-proscution agreement, which is different because he admits to pleading. So he hasn't been charged yet? It well, he had not been charged yet. He enters the non-proscution agreement in September, 2007. While he's here, while he's away. While he's in Israel. Okay. So while he's in Israel, he enters. His legal team enters for his behalf. He had already left. When I'm trying to understand, did he do anything illegal by leaving? No, I don't think so. Or anything that's not normal. It's more about the question of, why do you feel so safe in Israel? You know, it's like, why are you going over there with all your assets? Did you get some promises there from the government? But it wasn't your last intelligence connections. Again, if you look at that, I can beat story. It was scroll up, Joey. Again, put that screenshot about Returns from Israel to the next one. It was noted at the time, this is a report from the Palm Beach local news, that it was uncommon and that there were questions at the time. Okay. Why he was allowed to do this at the time. It looks incredibly fucked up. But I am trying to steal man in terms of, let's say that there was somebody that all had dual citizenship to Britain. They're being investigated for something. Could they go stay in Britain? Yes, they can't. So that would be okay and maybe not common, but it would be legal. Although you just made an important point there is that we have never yet been acknowledged that Epstein ever was in Israeli citizen. So we have no idea where it is. Is he at that time? We have no idea. To this day, we don't know. But he was found with false passports that were inside of his house in New York City. So it's possible to even. What do you mean? Yeah. Can you google it please, Joey? Epstein passports that were found at his New York City residence. This is an opening acknowledged fact and I'll come back to this as part of the intelligence case. Who the fuck has false passports? It's not exactly an easy thing for multiple passports in travel, South Africa and to the Middle East. And they were found in his residence in his New York City. That is the Jason Bourne and Jason fuckers. I never understood false passports because everything is connected. Yeah, that's right. Which means that there's no such thing as a false passport. And there's a passport that's issued to you under false pretenses by foreign government. So it's just a foreign by your own government. Oh, a passport by your own government. Like that. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. In the age of the barcode, there's no false passport. Okay. All right. And when's the last time you guys flew into America? Do you know how much biometric data and all that stuff is there? This is a non-act. But like CIA. But like CIA. Making issue a passport under that that will clear state department. I mean, look, even if you confirm the connection to intelligence, so look, yeah, go, go, go. I was just saying, when you land in any country in the world, even the jankies country in the world, this point, everybody swip in the passport. Yeah. So then the question would be, or the logical thinking would be, goes to Israel. And while this deal is being negotiated, if the deal is not advantageous to him, I'm staying in Israel. Then he's staying in Israel. Now, is there, is that, does he have enough leverage? There staying in Israel is actually threat to the US intelligence apparatus. This is unfortunately, we still don't know because this is all part of the unreleased perhaps Epstein files and I would be happy to be wrong. So in one circumstance, it could be as simple as, I'm not living in America as a pedophile. Right. I'd rather just live over here. I'd rather live in Israel. I'm going to stay. Yeah. And there is no intelligence involved. There is another version where it's like, hey, I'm going to go over here. Do you want me to tell all these guys everything I know? Because I could easily just tell them everything I know and they'll accept that information. And let's actually really sit on this because this is what leads to the sketchy non-prostitution agreement. So September 2007, Alex Acosta offers Epstein non-prostitution agreement despite massive evidence of a sex trafficking ring that crosses state lines, a textbook definition of a federal case. He pleads only to the solicitation of prostitution involving a minor and he must register as a sex offender. And he has a lot of conditions of his non-prostitution agreement, basically say he must spend 18 months in the Palm Beach County jail. He has weekend release. He's allowed 12 hours a day, six days a week to basically do whatever he wants. There is some evidence that he actually continued some of his trafficking while he was actually locked up in prison. He had a black car that would pick him up for 12 hours a day. It's the greatest deal in the entire world. And all he has to do is serve 18 months under these sweetheart conditions. And what he is able to do is that he is only as a register as a sex offender. He does not spend decades in federal prison. >> So he gets to reach 12 hours a day. >> Yes, that's for sure. >> By wait, four six days a week. Yeah, it's called work release. They actually call it work release. That was the conditions. Now, here's another very important thing about this plea deal. Under this non-prostitution agreement, the federal government grants immunity for all crimes that were under investigation of that indictment to Jeffrey Epstein and to all unindicted co-conspirators, including Gillane Maxwell. So this non-prostitution agreement grants sweeping immunity of all crimes that were named in the state. >> So white-sacred indictment, both for Gillane Maxwell and for Jeffrey Epstein. >> All right, Jeffrey Epstein. >> All right, here. So in other words, he gets this slap on a wrist compared to what they're investigating for. >> Yes, that's right. >> And he gets to wipe the slate clean for all the way more. >> It's a new one. >> Yeah. >> That's different than wipe in the slate clean. Does he then acknowledge all the things that happened through his immunity? >> I don't believe so. I think it was just that these were the crimes that you were being investigated for and we're going to basically agree that we'll never prosecute you for that. >> Okay, so it's changed for-- >> It's a limited hangout. >> Yeah, it's like a-- >> Exactly. >> What is that called? >> Limited hangout. >> What does that mean? >> Basically, it's like the publishing of some of the bad things that you did in order to hide all of the bad things that you did. >> So everything before 2008, he gets off with 18 months-- >> Well, everything in the secret indictment that was in it. >> Yes, exactly. >> Which by the way, still exists has never been released to this day. >> So there is a virgin, a lot of them. >> There is a virgin where we could-- >> Is there any version where we could learn about what was in that indictment? >> Yeah, they could release it if they wanted to. These are part of the promises that have been made by-- >> What about the great administration unit in the-- >> Yes, they meant-- >> Well, actually, no, it's a hold on a second. This is part of the reason. Can you put that back up because this is important? >> And immediately-- >> The reason-- >> They're reason why-- >> The reason why we ever learn anything about this is because of the victims and the courageous victims. Who, according to the law on the books at the time, is that the victims themselves had a right, a federal right to be informed of this non-prossecution agreement. This non-prossecution agreement was kept secret from the Epstein victims at the time. >> Oh, wow. >> Which violates federal law. And once upon a time-- >> These people fight for justice. And it's in 2018 that a court rules that the Epstein non-prossecution agreement violates the federal rights of the Epstein victims. It's under that ground that the non-prossecution agreement is overturned. And it is under then that the Southern District of New York is able to arrest Jeffrey Epstein on new charges. So this civil right-- >> Wow. >> This lawsuit is-- Yeah, the crime victims rights act. That's exactly what it is. Exhibiting the complaint, they were not informed the government's deal and were very unhappy about it because they trusted the feds to basically work basically to give them justice on their behalf. And they ruled the district court rule that it violated their rights under the Crime Victim Rights Act and overturned the non-prossecution agreement, which opens the door to his re-arrest in 2019. >> Okay, so hold on right here. >> Yeah, because it overturns that-- >> Yeah. >> I don't want to say conviction, but non-prossecution is the non-prossecution agreement. And the immunity, we should now legally have access to the indictment and investigation. >> We don't legally have access to it. >> Why is that? Why can't you overturn something, but he still gets immunity through it? >> Well, he didn't have immunity. They indicted him on new charges, but there's still an open question as to whether all the new charges in the 2019 indictment against Epstein include the secret indictment and many of the charges that were made against him. >> They're minimum. There would be nothing that would go against our system of justice that would simply expose all the charges and investigation in that initial crime or those initial crimes, right? Because it was overthrown. >> Well, it's complicated. So I do know that the grand jury docs were actually released from 2006. I have this in front of me because I don't have all of the details exactly on here, but it's not the full like actual investigation. >> I guess what I'm trying to get at is-- >> This doesn't necessarily prove a blackmail ring, which seems the narrative is incredibly popular online and something that we've obviously talked about, but it would at least acknowledge the accusations and the extent of the crimes that he was accused of. Which we haven't really gotten to at all. We've heard about them. Yes. But that information is not, and I think we'll be very interesting about that, is that if we have access to that information, yes, it might not incriminate the the co-conspirators. No, actually, would incriminate those co-conspirators now. Yes. But that would be okay because those people were being investigated and was going to go to trial anyway. We don't fall into that same maximalization act or whatever I was talking about. Yes. That's right. Right. Yeah. This idea that like, oh, you are a round-epsy, so we don't want your name to be mentioned because your image could be tarnished when you weren't actually accused of anything. No, no, this is they were accusing you of it and they were ready to go to try it. That's right. They were willing to go. Release that bare minimum, bare minimum, but they have all that. They've released some of that. They've released the great documents, but exactly. So this gets to the whole point. And then even then, whether we can really trust whether all those grand jury documents, which are only released about a year or so ago. And by the way, I'm not a lawyer. So if I misspeak on any of this stuff, like, please forgive me, I'm actually just trying to compile like all the evidence. What we do know, at least according to the Justice Department, is that this was a deal that should never have happened, but that doesn't happen until 2020 after Epstein kills himself. After the Office of Professional Responsibility officially says, Alex Koso showed poor judgment whenever he entered this investigation. But that's the whole ballgame here is why we did not why we let him off on a sweet hard deal. Go ahead. Was Galein the only co-conspirator that got immunity to that. I think it wasn't named in it. It was like to any co-conspirator. It wasn't specifically named, but it did cover her because she was one of the people who was covered all co-opers. But I think that's exactly what was covered. You've have to I'd have to revisit that exact case, but I know there were like assistance in other people who were involved. That's a thing. I mean, look, this doesn't just it's like remember Harvey Weinstein and all of his assistants. And it was a lot of a lot of second years. There's a lot of people that need to know about this to make this all happen. So here's a weird question kind of why would that judge in 2018 suddenly kind of book everything else that happened and say, no, these victims have a right to justice. Because it's a clear cut case. They were it's literally the law that they had to be informed of the non-precicution agreement. We had a very ignorant question. Why did they 10 years were other judges being very slow? That's basically what it is. Also, a lot of them were felt in silence. A lot of them didn't even know about it. They learned about it later. They have to learn about it. They thought that this had all been a lot more penal. He'd been penalized more after they learned again, that documentary on Netflix that actually goes into all of these specifics. But I'm more focused on intelligence question. That's like the case I want to really stick with. Because that's the whole ball get is here. Is why did Acosta let him off? Before you get to that, Mark, what were you saying? Do you know of the statute of limitations applies for these kinds of things if someone's sort of like collaboration with the crime is? Yeah, well, we'd have to go out. We'd have to do the math. But if you think about the statute of limitations, Galein goes on trial for crimes in the 1990s. So presumably, you know, all of her convictions, if it's in what, 2021, I think she was convicted, then let's go back some 20 years. So there must be the statute of limitations. There is for everything I think but murder. But it presumably does go back like decades enough that the issue is able to be prosecuted. So that very other coven spirit or the other coven spiriters could also be the right way to the statute of limitations of limitations. If there was proven that there were the case wasn't handled according to the. The reality is the lawyer situation. I'm not aware. I don't know. I get you know what I'm saying? It's like, let's say like they, you would think so, but I could also see some bullshit way where they're like, no, it's the government's fault for entering into a bad thing. So you can't prosecute it. But they didn't enter into a bad thing. They didn't tell the word. What are they? What are the big big things? They didn't tell the victims of the agreement. So I would imagine you, it's like a mistrial. You allow to do it again. I don't think that the sexual limitations would wipe that away. I think the victims will just have right to see that agreement. I don't think it would undo the agreement. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The thing is that they were all, they didn't have to do anything except tell them, hey guys, this is what we did. And they just didn't do it because it was a sweetheart deal. It was a sweet radio. And I didn't want to reveal why he's able to get away with this. But this is kind of what brings us one question. I'll go really quick. The Freedom of Information Act. Would this applied any point? Is there like a time in which this will have to release? That's a foie, it's a big foie question. So foie, I mean, it can take forever in the Department of Justice and there are various like classification rules. This leads, remember, there was redactions in the Epstein files. And even then it has to go through review of the foie officer. This is not really something that we'll ever find out via foie. And then that's almost impossible. And then secondly, when people talked about the word or like say Epstein files, yeah, are they generally referring to this secret indictment? Is that the bulk of it? Or are there so many other pieces? I'm trying to find the secret indictment details here. Just so yeah, this is to the seal federal indictment prepared by the Sun, Derser, New York that led to his eventual July 2019. But this was under seal in late or June. So this basically goes back to this indictment that was previous prior to the non prosecution agreement. That's what I'm talking about. That is not what the Epstein supposed files are. Okay. And this is the other problem. Nobody really knows what the Epstein files are. And there's been this bastardization again of this idea of the black book and the so-called clientless. I'm telling you, it doesn't work like that. Like there are names in books. Some of the names in the Epstein black book actually turned out he never met them. Right? So what Epstein files to me is financial records is the entire like co-conspirators, the co-conspirators, the indictment, the original investigation documents, the FBI 302s and the you know, the operation. That's what we're going to learn about. That's what we all want to know. But then we take a bunch of tapes and DVDs from this. And the tapes that were allegedly lost about the cash and artwork and the flight logs, which are still not entirely released and very been released in dips and drops in the area. Okay. So let's focus here on the non-proscution agreement and why this did not happen and the case for why it is very in my opinion likely he was an intelligence asset. So in 2019, Joey, if you could please put this up from a daily beast, Vicki Ward. Remember, this is Vicki Ward. This is the person who reports from Vanity Fair 2002, probably the foremost authority on Epstein. She reports that Alex Acosta, while he was being screened by the Trump Transition Team in 2017, when he was asked, why did you back off the Epstein case? She says here, he was told she was told he belonged to intelligence and to let it go. Now this, I want to be clear, it's not been confirmed 100% that he said this. This is reporting from Vicki Ward for about the Trump Transition Team. Now, though, if you can go to the next link that I sent in 2019 when Alex Acosta holds a press conference about this entire issue and he has asked specifically about intelligence ties of Jeffrey Epstein and whether he would confirm this, he says, quote, I would hesitate to that reporting as fact, but I he would not deny it. Later on, he has asked on the record here by the office of professional responsibility, whether he had any information that Epstein was an intelligence asset. He says, absolutely not. I did not have information and he's informed that he is allowed to speak about this in a classified setting if he would like to, but he denies that he had information. But it's important to actually release the exact transcript as to what and how he was asked because you remember when I said earlier, when Naftali Bennett said he never worked for Mossad, that's very different than worked with Mossad. That's very different than was aware of had contact with, right? You see what I'm saying? There are multiple non-denials. It can be very specific with their wording to evade the truth. Correct. As any lawyer and any former US attorney would know when he's under question. But nonetheless, Alex Acosta had an opportunity to address this and issued a non-denial denial in his public press conference in 2019. Last time I was here, I told you guys my great regret is I sat next to him on a plane and I didn't ask him about it because it was midnight flight for Miami and nobody was talking and I'm just staring at this dude being like, bro, I got to ask. He probably thought I was such a freak. He's like, oh, he's his guy. Yeah, anyway. So Alex, if you're listening, I would still love to talk to you about it. So just so we can, he's never, he has never confirmed. He's never confirmed. He's never denied it. Well, he basically lives, I mean, look, he lives a private life in Miami. He can come out at any time. I kind of deny. He said here, he said here and didn't really deny it. And this is why he wants the exact, this is why the exact transcript matters because he said there, let's, let's open it up because that's specifically that transcript available. No, it's not available. And actually, that's one of the Epstein files that people would like release. So our, our cost has told OPR, he did not have any information about cooperating and federal investigation or relating to media reports that Epstein had quote, been an intelligence asset. OPR says it did not find any reference to his poor, purported cooperation or even a suggestion at the in the footnote. They says when OPR asked Acosta about his apparent equivocation in a 2019 press conference and answering the media question about Epstein being an intelligence asset, he said, quote, the answer is no. So that's what he told them. Okay, let's be clear about what he said, at least in one on the record setting, because there are various different reporting on this. I am personally inclined to take the totality of evidence of everything I talked about about his connections with Hoffenburg, with Adnan Kishogi, with Douglas Leese to show all of his connections that we're about to get into with with Israel and say, I think there's a pretty good case to be made. And let's also get now to why the intelligence community would ever want to cover this stuff up. All right, why? So can we go to the next link please? This is from Buzzfeed News, 2021, a great reporter, Jason Leopold, he's like the FOIA king. And what he reported in 2021 is secret CIA files say that staffers committed in sex crimes involving children. Declassified CIA Inspector General Port shows a pattern of abuse and repeated decision by the federal prosecutors not to hold agency personnel accountable. Now why? And by the way, some of these agents abuse children as young as two and six, which are named here in the documents. Oh my, all right. And so why would the feds not want to prosecute known pedophiles, people who are actually abusing children, not just child pornography? Why? They were concerned if they prosecuted them in open court that sources and methods would be revealed. So in sources and methods. So in 10 different known times here, from the CIA Inspector General, they decided not to prosecute known pedophiles specifically to make sure that they could protect intelligence at the expense of justice and bringing people and putting these people in jail. So that shows you that there is a track record here from the United States government, from the CIA Inspector General Port, in which even in a much lower level scenario, that they don't want this information to come to light. Not because they necessarily care about the just, it's they care at the end of the day about sources and methods and about at all costs. They want to keep all of these people out of open court because those people might start talking a whole lot of shit while they're on the transcript on the record. And they might say, Hey, you put me in federal prison. I'm going to tell the whole world what I know. And in exchange, they're let off with probably the worst crime that you can commit, you know, literally, in my opinion, like the worst possible crime that you can commit. We're talking about the sexual abuse here of children as young as two and as six. Second one, and this shows you actually a more systematic one. Shout out to my friend, Darryl Cooper, who flagged this case to me in his podcast. I highly recommend it. The martyr made podcasts on Epstein files. So this is something he brought to my attention by his podcast is that all throughout the 1970s and 1980s, there was this place called the Concordia Children's Home in Northern Ireland, where it was basically a hub and an orphanage for orphaned boys who were being systematically abused by intelligence assets, known to MI6 and MI5 because and and and it was basically covered up and ignored because they were key conduits in helping MI5 manage the Northern Irish problem during the troubles. This is a but a clear cut example of basically how it works to everybody understands MI5 MI6 is a British intelligence. He's a British intelligence and then the troubles is a time in which there was a Irish resistance against the UK and Northern Ireland and it's complicated. So I'm not so flexible. The argument is in order to manage that resistance. Yes. They had these intelligence assets who were a sexually abusing children. They knew they were sexually abused and they let it happen and they let it happen. It was advantageous to gay communities. So what I'm just showing it though, this has all happened in the past. But just to be clarified, it doesn't mean that MI5 and MI6 are orchestrated by the station of these children. It means they're looking the other way, which is equally heinous. It's honestly worse, you can make it. I actually think it's worse. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Because it is advantageous for what the current administration or what the country wanted at the time. And so you were using this as evidence that intelligence communities have done this have done this in the past. These are verified incidents. They show us and this has happened. And real quick, yeah, it would lend itself to this idea that intelligence communities were aware of what Epstein was doing and was able to look the other way because there was access to certain information and money and money that they wanted. So it would thwart this idea that the government is actively using Epstein as a worker, if you will, to run a blackmail ring. But it would confirm this idea that they were aware of this pedophile sex trafficking rink happening and they allowed it to happen. So as long as that they could use him continue use him as an ass. That's exactly right. Which I think is an important slice because I think the internet has taken Epstein and turned him into the massage CIA government blackmail ring that they use to incriminate the elites, which at this point in time, we don't know if there's any evidence of that. But it seemed like there's overwhelming evidence to his access to these elites and his utility to intelligence. Correct. I wonder if it's advantageous for for intelligence to have an asset or someone like this that has such a malignant proclivity. Correct. You're exactly. Can you go on? Can you continue on this? Like if basically you have someone that's able to have access to all this information and money, but also is a known pedophile, he's much easier to control and coerce. So it's like in the hood, if you got a crackhead or a heroin addict, that you need him to do some f*ck shop. But they always got to come back to you because they're addicted to the thing you got. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, the FBI looks the other way for on criminals. Actually, Joey, can you google this? It's like confidential informants commit crimes FBI. There was a report recently and came out a couple of years ago that named like the number of crimes that the FBI allowed its confidential informants to commit while it was working with them. This is what you're bolder. Yeah, it's, but it's it's not it. Why do you it's like it's like it's like way bigger than that. Why do you would be like the the perfect example of that? So the notorious Boston gangster of course, always an FBI informant, but they allowed him to continue to run shit in Boston. I mean, it's thousands of crimes. It's shocking. Prophi Indictator. Yeah. They can do whatever they want to the people. You want as long as you keep certain things. Oh, you can kill tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand people as long as it's your little house. You can say like, wow, wow. I would google something like confidential informants commit crimes like FBI admits something like that. Maybe we can find that. I'm just citing it off the top of my head. Sorry. But do we have I've looked at it? Go ahead. Do we have any idea what he's providing that is worth the kids. There it is. Yeah, there we go. It's FBI a lot of informants to commit five thousand. It's something like it's like maybe five thousand or fifty thousand. I can't read that line. Exactly. I'm again, I'm trying to say five thousand six hundred. I'm trying to show everybody that this is this is business as usual for the for the federal government and just to clarify not all these crimes are kid fucking. Yeah, these crimes are drug running. Most of these crimes are drugs. Exactly. There are illegal activities that the FBI is aware of and they allow these people to operate in these spaces. They know that they're operating these spaces and being watched just as long as that information trickles back. For example, if you're a gun runner in America, you want to send some guns to some third world country, the FBI or the CIA is going to be aware of that. They can tap you for that information. Right. And they might actually want those guns to get over it. Oh, really? And they might need somebody like you were described before to ensure that those guns actually get there. Thank you. They're in a fair as purposes. But again, I just want to parcel this. It's not like the only crimes being committed or having sex with Trump. No, it is quite common that you are using these nefarious characters to carry out the horrible crimes that you cannot be associated at this point. Yeah, always as usual. Businesses. Yes. It's just extended to the furthest possible one. Yeah. This had a failure. That is a great word on that struggle. Yeah. Yeah. And we all struggle with that because we're good people. Right. But when you're surrounded by this, look, it's all how do you commit major crimes? Right. It's all a build up. Like nobody just starts out immediately, like going for a billion dollar Ponzi scheme. I mean, one of my favorite books is The History of the Made Off scheme. It starts small, man. It starts with one. It's one doctor paper. And then it leads to this and then there's one lies one quarter. It's just one. That's all. And then you take another and next thing you know, you run a 56 billion dollar Ponzi scheme. Okay. And it takes 50 years to get there. But it doesn't happen all overnight. It happens in a permission structure in an environment of crime. This might be the most obvious answer in the world or there is no answer and that's obvious. What intelligence is he providing? Do we have any idea? I don't know. That it's like, oh, this is potentially a pedophilia ring involving the most powerful people in the world. And instead of having any kind of justice, let me make it okay. So let's speculate at this because this pure speculation, we have no idea. And this is part of what it would be great to get from files or investigation or a church committee, you know, the church committee actually would be the only answer here. We need congressional committee. So come now about. Do you know what the church committee is? No, it's in the 19th. It was Senator Frank Church who was American hero. No church can help. It's okay. Why don't you call it the church? Senator Frank Church in the 1970s exposed Co-Intel Pro, all of the out of control operations by the FBI and the CIA and he brought the intelligence community to bear post watergate. And basically America didn't trust them anymore. Senator Church basically seized on this. He exposed a lot of the issues with the black panthers with Co-Intel Pro with the prosecution. Can you explain to him? Yeah, Co-Intel Pro was a CIA. Is that my control? What am I thinking of? No, no. Co-Intel Pro is the agent from our control. I'm getting them all mixed up. Agent Vector. You put the FBI agents in peaceful process. That's right. With the against the black panthers. So there's that. And then what was the mind control? That's the MKL. He exposed all this. That's why what I'm saying is we need something like that. The intelligence community could be effectively using illegal measures to incriminate people that are not doing actual or acting against their own citizens. Or acting against their own citizens. And to question a lot. Like he was the arms dealer, money laundered. That's a lot of. By the way, I'm speculating. That's not speculation. What I'm trying to say is there is a lot of evidence that points in that direction. I can't get further without the documents. Without he was actually like, it was what information could come to you. A lot of arms dealers. A lot of people who were doing so, you know, look, we can only speculate. Bare minimum is exactly happening. Bare minimum what we can confirm is that he was involved. We obviously outside the child sex right thing. That he was doing illegal money laundering. He appears in my opinion. >> Well, didn't he get caught at Bear Stearns? Maybe not my line, but in Satter Trident. >> Yeah, he was doing something that violated compliance rules in the 1980s. >> But yeah. >> Doing illegal stuff for the transfer of money, probably tax evasion, which is quite common when you're dealing with this type of money. >> Yes. >> But still willing to go to illegal measures to prop up the wealth of the Resilience. >> That opens up his own firm and only accepts billionaire. >> Yeah, billionaire right. >> It's again, like what do we do? >> I'm not going to do a moment of a podcast. >> Yeah, a whole new billion. >> Only billion. >> Well, actually today it would be the equivalent of saying only 20 billion, right? There's not that many people. >> Oh, we're going to waste money. >> What if there was a guy that was managing the money of all the richest people in the world? >> Right. >> It would be advantageous for the intelligence communities of any country to have access to that. >> Yeah, you would actually be quite foolish if you didn't. >> If you did, you would have to have something. >> Right, exactly. So this is where again, like we can only speculate, what did they get out of this? In my opinion, in the 1980s, he was obviously financing arm seals. There's just like clear cut case for me. That's the most useful black money is the most useful thing in the world to a US intelligence or most odd intelligence, Saudi intelligence, any of these other people. Then it gets to the question of the whole blackmail thing. And look, I think there is at least some evidence here in the case of Waxner and others that it appears to look like blackmail was used by Epstein for his personal financial gain. And then we combine the two to where we have hidden cameras that we know about in the Virgin Islands, that we know about in the New York residents, that we know about in Palm Beach. Many of this footage and other things never have been released. We know about the DVDs and other things. >> All of the cameras. I think it's important to note that it's not simply security cameras. I have cameras in all my homes. >> Exactly. Like they were wired for audio as well. And they were in the bathrooms. >> Yeah. I don't have, yes. >> But I, if you think that's another interesting point, because that doesn't necessarily mean it's only sexual blackmail. >> Oh, I imagine it's more come over to my house. >> Yeah, me. >> Let's talk. >> You go to the bathroom and you're like, this fucking weirdo. I gotta get the hell out of here, he's a piece of shit, blah, blah. And now you got that locked and then the FBI gets access. >> Which I think is an important delineation that you might have some head of state. And let's say they're in the Epstein files as, oh, there is audio visual blackmail of Bill Clinton or who'd Barack. It might not necessarily be sexual. >> Yeah, you're exactly right. >> I just think, break for a second. You need to take care of your mental health, okay? We know how important it is, but we also know how daunting it seems to drive up from a therapist's office every single week. And that's where Talkspace comes in Talkspace makes therapy easy and convenient because you can take your appointments from the comfort and privacy of your own home. You can even talk it out between sessions by sending text messages to your therapist. Talkspace therapy and psychiatry are covered by many insurance plans and employers including try care for active duty, veterans and their dependents. Most insured members of a $0 copay, you can easily sign up online and get paired with the license provider. With 48 hours, you can switch providers at no extra cost. As a listener of this podcast, you get $80 off your first month of Talkspace. When you go to Talkspace.com/flagrant and enter the promo code space 80 that is S-P-A-C-E-8-0 to match with a license therapist today. Go to Talkspace.com/flagrant and enter the promo code space 80. >> All right, guys, listen, I know I'm all about Bitcoin and here's what I've learned. I should not invest in any other coins. Racken gave us some money to invest. I lost $7,000 last time. >> Wow. >> So, that's me. >> So this time, they gave me more money. All I'm doing is Bitcoin. That's it. I'm not fucking around with Fortcoin anymore. Everybody sent you their main coins. Fuck yourselves. It's Bitcoin only for me. What about you guys? >> I think I'm mostly Bitcoin too and I think I've been doing okay. >> Yeah. >> You're up the most. >> I think I'm up the most, yeah. >> Yeah. >> I didn't pick them. >> But you had to do it for some people. >> Yeah, you had to handle it. >> That's smart. >> You had my Jewish handler pick it. >> Yeah, yeah. >> That's smart. >> And it's working out. >> You're winning. >> Also got gold. >> Yeah. >> Got a gold. >> Why did diamonds? I got real estate. >> No, I doubled on an Epstein coin and it's crushing. >> I'm like, I'm through the roof, dude. They should make that. I don't even know this one. >> You know they don't ever show you the results of that. >> That's right. >> Trump said there's actually no coin. What's the hell? What did I put all my money in? >> And then now you're pretty much break even, right? >> Yeah, I broke even. >> But listen, guys, whatever you believe in, Kraken has a special offer going on for all Flagorant fans. You sign up on the Kraken mobile app at Kraken.com/flagorant and he's a coin Flagorant 25 and you get $25 in free Bitcoin. That could be worth a billion dollars one day. >> One day? >> You never know. Also, just so you know, if it wasn't clear for me telling you I have lost 70% of my money, this is not an investment advice. >> It's a great job, Dr. Kading involves risk of loss and is offered to U.S. customers, including Wyoming, New York, and West Virginia. >> Washington, Washington. >> Washington, Washington, Washington, New York and Maine. >> Maine? >> Yeah. >> Thank God, through Payward Interactive Inc. >> Let's get to a brock. This is important because now I want to start making the Israel case specifically. So we already talked about how Error Epstein. >> Jesus. >> Well, I want to present this. >> Absolutely. I don't need people coming with the anti-Semitism accusations. Let's live only in the world of facts. >> To people make those accusations. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Wait, that happens. >> Today, right now, this entire thing is going to be branded and I'm sorry. >> Listen, I don't care anymore, but even though they are going to say that no matter what, we should not be irresponsible and let's live in the world of facts. So go ahead, Joey and show that. >> That's a good fucking excuse to me. >> That's a good thing to have. >> It says Epstein and Ebrox. So, okay, let's go ahead and put this up here. Here are the lists that I compiled just yesterday of every Israeli Prime Minister who we know who is linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Number one is Shimon Perez. Shimon Perez was the Prime Minister of Israel in the 1980s. He, according to Aude Barak himself and the open record, introduced Aude Barak to Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the first Prime Minister of Israel that we know who's linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Number two is Aude Olmair, who is named as an Epstein associate by the US Virgin Islands in their lawsuit against J.P. Morgan and Chase. I will be honest. So Aude Olmair, we have the least amount of information. We only know he was named by the US Virgin Islands as an Epstein associate. Number three, Aude Barak, as I list there. Connections too vast to paraphrase, all right? And so let's spend some time now on Aude Barak. Let me return to Netanyahu in a bit. In my document, you can scroll to the Epstein and Aude Barak section. Aude Barak stayed for multiple times at Jeffrey Epstein's house. This is confirmed. He flew dozens of times on Jeffrey Epstein's private jet. But he has no one who's going to say in New York City. Yeah, right. He's the former Prime Minister of Israel. Where could he stay? Actually, Joey, can you pull up the photo of Aude Barak? Aude Barak Epstein. It's my time. It had his. It was the biggest part of that. Yeah. You're going to go set the forces. I'm not sure. Why do you guys see the photo? There's a photo of Aude Barak walking into the Epstein mansion with his face covered, with a scarf up to his nose. And this is pre-COVID times. He says it was cold. It was cold. Yeah, there it is. Look at that. Look at that. That's him walking into Jeffrey Epstein's house. That's insane. People don't walk around like that. Yeah. They don't walk around like that. And that's posted to them. Yeah. And that's posted to thousands. So again, we're talking about post-conviction. Yeah, post-conviction. Because they registered sex offenders. That's right. Still saying it is house. He's saying it is house. Yes. Okay. All right. Also 2015, I have a document of Link here. I'm just speaking. Epstein funded Aude Barak. Oh, no. You're not. I think it's a new. All right. Come on. Epstein funded Aude Barak's defense intelligence startup to the tune of millions of dollars. So that in my opinion is one of the real smoking guns. Because what did I talk about earlier, which Jeffrey, uh, with a Robert Maxwell, was the funding of software used by the Aude Barak government to do what? To spy on the United States. Yeah. Now this, this software would be used to spy everywhere. I imagine. Yeah. Of course. Like Pegasus, right? Right. And all of these other things are, right? All right. But here in this case, Epstein entered partnership worth millions with Aude Barak in 2015. Post-conviction, register, sex, okay? Let's continue. Barak is who, the former, not only Prime Minister, the former head of military intelligence inside of Israel. Let's continue beyond that. And let's say, ask about Aude Barak and what else he did. I have this in the Wexner section. If you want it is, let me find it here. I may not have actually put a citation. You can Google it if you would like. Epstein, who was also named by Leslie Wexner as a trustee of the Wexner Foundation, paid Aude Barak $2.3 million to complete two consulting reports, one of which he never finished, okay? $2.3 million paid by the Wexner Foundation to Aude Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel, for one of which he never finished, okay? I'm just saying, good work. If you can get it. Yeah. Right. If you can get it, you can get it. I'm just saying, you can get it. that they come here and learn leaders. - Well, it's not incriminating. I'm just saying that the Wexner, this is American. He's a billionaire. He's funding APAC and all of his various Zionist causes. He's also paying weirdly $2.3 million to a former Israeli Prime Minister. This is a foundation which Epstein has a lot of control over. By the way, just to be fair to them, they have claimed that Epstein had no influence over that decision. - Okay, I mean, he was basically running it and he had power of attorney by Leslie Wexner. But to be fair to the Wexner Foundation, I mean, I just think it's crazy. This is insane to pay $2.3 million to Abe Rock. - So take me down that line of thinking. If you pay him that money, what does that mean? - Yeah, for what? It's like to what? - To what? - And I don't know. - Give me a hypothetical. - My hypothetical is that these are basically ways to create slush funds that perhaps he was using and others to fund other intelligence operations. - So it returns me to the black money point. - No, you need legitimate ways to wash money. - Okay, so profit is a great way. - He's giving the money to him and then he's doing, you know, nefarious, I don't know what he's doing. - Is there a way of looking at it where you go, Jeffrey Epstein is working for US intelligence and in a way, this is how their bribing is really involved. - You very mainly, well, you know, - To be honest with him. - To be honest with him. - And this is why I will never sit here and say, he was solely a Mossad agent or Mossad assets. Soly a US asset. I think he was a hired gun. He would work for anybody. - Everybody would want to work with this person. - Because he has access to all the risks and families. - To the world's money. - To the world's rich and the famous. He can tell you the secrets. I mean, this is the gold standard of an intelligence asset in the United States of America, the capital of the global empire, right? New York City, the capital of global finance. People, even private business people would want to be friends with Epstein because they're like, hey, what's going on with that deal? Are they gonna do a leverage buyout with this person? And Epstein would be like, yeah, maybe I can find out for you, right? And you know, it calls up this person. So there are a lot of reasons to want to have access to all of this. - And why would he want access to? - Which is right, one access to. - Why would he want access to abstain? - Well, that is one of those things where I actually think the relationship was the other way because it might be just a pretty cool quid pro-co situation. Like you're a huge broker, the former Prime Minister of Israel and Jeffrey Epstein is a guy who made his money somehow and you need millions of dollars from him, not a legitimate venture capital firm. I think that the reason that they want sketchy money is because it was probably, in my opinion, some sort of intelligence front and that this is exactly his fulfilling his purpose. The financier uses the money, the dirty money or the untraceable money to fund future spyware, intelligence companies, this gets to the front company discourse. It also shows us he was involved in this in 2015. It wasn't that long ago, okay? It was only 10 years ago that he was still doing this. So it shows that even post-conviction, he's continuing the behavior which is very suspicious in my opinion. So that's where we are with Aid Brock. Now let's return to Netanyahu because this is a fun story actually. So Netanyahu in 2011, I have that screenshot in my tweet if you wanna go ahead and put that up there. Netanyahu met with the JP Morgan exec I mentioned earlier, Jess Staley, right? So Jess Staley in 2011, emails Epstein and he said, I gotta find the exact text. I don't have it here in the document, but I tweeted it a couple of days ago. Let me just go ahead and find it because the wording of it is genuinely remarkable where he sends him an email and he said something like, against all odds. Yeah, here we go. In 2011, JP Morgan executive forward an email Epstein. Against all odds, we have been granted a meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Epstein replies, surprise, surprise. The US Virgin Island notes that he was a key conduit in brokering meetings like this. And so here's from the US Virgin Islands lawsuit where they note some of the world's dignitaries, Prince Andrew, Aude Brock, Netanyahu, David Gurgen. My point is around this is this JP Morgan CEO is able, from the email discourse, he's like, against all odds, we were granted a meeting with Netanyahu and Epstein replies, surprise, surprise. Why can't JP Morgan get a meeting with Netanyahu? Exactly. First of all, that's super weird. Why wouldn't you be able to get a meeting with Netanyahu? And then why would you forward that to Epstein? And Epstein's like, yeah, you're welcome for hooking it up. I think it's weird. Now, none of these point perhaps to direct employee relationship and points to vast connectivity and network, which was useful perhaps this time with the US and Israeli intelligence. But this looks like Epstein has influence over Israel, not the other way, right? Well, it looks like the US. But it could be by directional. Right, of course, of course. I'm just saying in this certain circumstance, like, hey, we need to meet with this guy. We can't happen. And he's like, yeah, I'll tell him what to do. Well, yeah, but it's not really influence. It's more acting as an agent for major financial institutions to hook them up with the Israeli government. Now, look, I mean, Netanyahu, by the way, has never answered any questions about this. But Aude Brock has, you know, they-- You're saying it as no boys in here? He didn't talk to us. Is that how that-- By the way, do we know what's up with signing in them? I don't understand. Like, bro, I said this. I was like, you have a newsy interview. You got to release that shit. You can't just hold a prime minister. I'm sure for a week, it's fucking crazy. Your now thing is still one of my favorite things in the universe. Let's say, let me mention that. How long do a cake sting? Yeah. How many happy dads do you think you drink at 30 seconds? I forget the one who was annoying with you, who's literally like, be on his phone while BB is talking. You're such a sh-- Well, the thing about Israel Palestine, what kind of watches that? Yeah, yeah. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] What a joke. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so played devil's advocate for some of these people who would be on Epc and Zaliss. And you brought this up earlier. But like, theoretically, you got, if I'm a Bill Gates, and this guy has access to all of these people, and I'm concerned with wealth, I guess he's already been convicted of the pedophilia. So even associated with him is crazy. But theoretically, it's like, well, you can connect with that billionaire and that billionaire. Well, that's what happened in Bill Gates's case. So Bill Gates, if you guys remember, well, it's complicated. There's a lot of reporting about it. But allegedly, he would use Epc and for marriage advice and things like that. [LAUGHTER] That's just too old. Yeah, that's what-- [LAUGHTER] I mean, actually, this is important on the Bill Gates story. Melinda Gates divorced him over the Epc. And-- Is that confirmed what she says? OK, well, that's the type of what she says. I would say that too. But guys, let's see what they say then. Because here's the thing. It had to be bad. Because Bill Gates was an obvious flanderer for over 20 years for their entire marriage. So what was worse than that to get you to divorce him? There had to be something. I think there was something sketchy that she found out. Like, look, maybe she was just appalled by all the reporting. But she knew-- look, everybody at Microsoft knew that Bill Gates was having affairs. This is already documented. It's out there, like, in terms of his conduct with women over the last 20 years. So it can't have been as bad as-- Oh, we're just saying. Right, it's an income level where it's like, come on. They're multi-billionaire. I mean, come on. They probably are not even in the same country, right? They're both like vast estates that can just move around on private jets. So again-- Oh, my God. I did not like that. This is Melinda Gates. And I like to have meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. No, I made that clear to him. He was a parent. He was able to provide my heart breaks for these women. Yeah, I guess you got to say that. Yeah, but it's one of those things where they're micronsumely asking how to feel that. Sorry. Do we know the first time-- what's the gap between the divorce and the first time this guy meets hips? Because I think there's like 12 years where Melinda could have left. Yeah, do you not like that it got out? Well, that's part of it. I mean, I feel like that it got out. I think she didn't know. I do not know. No, she didn't know. I don't think she could have left earlier if she was so bothered by. Right. But I think without to say maybe she didn't know-- Oh, no. Because all of the stuff is about his good-- but I think actually she may know even more than we all do about what was going on in some of those rooms. Where was it? Well, maybe it's like she asked him to come clean and he came clean or maybe there's some stuff in court documents and lawsuits and others. But I've been alleged against him that again, could have been cast out. Well, it's a settlement like that. It was like billions. I mean, we can look at it. I'm not exactly what it was. Yeah, it's going to be billions no matter what. So it's what was it? 40 billions, something like that? Maybe 50. And control the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Oh, yeah. They really continue. Those two things together. They're something going on. That's on site. All right. 12.5 billion grand for her friend on a proper work. Can you hear this some more? Maybe I'm thinking-- Meli Mel. Oh, they don't approve. They don't approve. Did they give it no matter what? Right, yeah. She was going to get it in the man. So she-- Right. So anyway, my thing is like, why now? I just think again, she knew about his cheating. It had to be worse than that. I don't really know what it was. Or just public. Or public. It's possible. But Bill Gates met with Epstein because he was trying to win a Nobel Peace Prize. Bill Gates wanted the Nobel Peace Prize for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Epstein's like, oh, I can make that happen. And why? Like, that's the question. Like, why even after being a registered sex offender? Like, Andrew, you and I are in a weird position. That's what Trump is calling for. Let me just call for him. All of us-- Hey, hey. All of us. As public people, we get invited to dinners all the time, right? And I very, very rarely go. And that's annoying. But I used to go. But like, what I always do is just to cursory Google search. And if somebody invited me to dinner, and was a registered sex offender, which was one of the very first things going to pop up, I'm not going. But George Stephanopoulos went. Bill Gates went. Reed Hoffman. You know, Peter's-- I don't know. How do you-- I'm really hanging out with my real friends. Right. Exactly. What is going on here? And not only you guys are doing dinners or whatever, you're all like-- Why are you-- sharing money to each other, the bill and the bill and the gate are like the Nobel Peace Prize. And there's all kinds of people we don't even know about because there has not been yet a release of the files. But isn't it like the rich people stuff that you was saying before? It's like, well, he's going over there. I guess it's cool if we all go. Yeah, but still, doesn't the sex offender thing register at any point? Like, of course, point for a second. What point? Does it register to be like, oh, we're not doing this. I can understand now right now. To be honest with you, I probably wouldn't Google. But come on. Somebody's convicted. Fuck that. You're not. Your staff is going to Google. Yeah, right. Exactly. All these meetings are going through your staff. And I'm not worried that I have a staff. If I was, they would, yeah, Hey, Google, these assistants, you're not getting everybody. Think about how many people were terrified of just coming on the podcast. Almost terrified to come on a podcast, right? You have some of the most powerful people in the world that are going to meet up with a convicted pedophile. Right. Yeah. You know what's going on. But you said in the 90s, it was already common knowledge. It was like some young. Yeah, but there's a big difference. We are registered sex. Yeah, there's a possibility before that. But they all rationalize it. I'm sure this says, yeah, look, he was given us such a light sentence because it was kind of bullshit. Yeah, the charges were. The whole thing was overblown. And you're about to get $2 billion in a piece prize in the foundation. Yeah. And then you go, all right, for $2 billion, people are going to help close the meeting with the guy. We were saying it's the reputation laundering. Like again, we're talking about Bill Gates. We're talking about MIT. We're talking about the Ivy League universities. We're talking about some of the world's most professional and smartest scientists who are going over to his house for dinner who are, you know, accepting grants for his work at the MIT lab, who all of this is post conviction. Guys, you don't just give money to MIT. They're have enough money. They don't just take it from anyone. They do extensive background. They do a sense of background. They do a sense of that. Make sure that you can put your name on something. So that's happening. I have a friend of mine who has a real safe fund or whatever. And he got invested from these institutional places like MIT and the amount of background. The dealers must be insane. It's insane. And he often like, criticizes some like the developers who just like they raise money in the community. And he's like, yeah, that's bullshit. Because if you lose their money, it's no big deal. There's nobody to answer to. When you get money from an institution like the UC pension fund or whatever. The amount of due diligence the SEC is on your phone. Like it should be. You know getting looked at constantly. So it's not like that's not going to come up. It does come up and they look the other way. Which is peculiar. It's weird. Okay. Last thing I actually didn't put this in my notes. And this really, I just my goal here is to just emphasize all the connections. And what could possibly still yet to be released. So please Google the New York Financial Services report on Epstein, which regards Deutsche Bank. Now this report I read it in 2020 is one of the craziest things I ever read because it is a description of financial behavior at this bank that any normal individual would never get away with. Not only looking the other way, holding high level meetings being like, guys, we're not in compliance right now. They're like, this is violating banking rules. He is taking out like millions of dollars in cash, $9,900 at a time. They're not reporting into the feds, which you're supposed to. He's wiring money to Eastern European women and obvious like sex trafficking wing post conviction, which by the way, post conviction they weren't even really going to supposed to be doing business with them for the reputation of the bank. But they cite in the Deutsche Bank settlement in with the New York Financial Services internal emails where they're like, hey, he's really good for business because he connects us with a whole lot of people. These are out. It's open, right? And like inside you literally watch as lower level compliance people who don't know what's up, flag to their bosses. And they're like, guys, what are we doing here? Like this is violating bank rules and they're like, hey, like, something, right? I mean, I'm talking all the way up to the highest level of the bank where internal conversations are had in multiple times. This rep violates multiple bank policies. It violates the law. In this case, New York state law about the way that you're supposed to conduct yourself as a financial institution, looking the other ways, all these insane wire transfers for millions and millions of dollars. So to me, that's like my final thing here. These are the files I want. I want the actual banking records. I want the LLC formation documents. I want the truck. Yeah, from the wire, my favorite quote, you know, from Lester Freeman. If you start to follow the money, you don't know where the fuck it's going to take you. And that's really what the whole story is about. And yes, I understand the salacious details. And I spent a lot of time on it here, you know, the pedophilia investigation and all that, but it's secondary to the level of influence that he had. And to the extent that it mattered, it mattered because he was so important in some respect that everyone was either able to look the other way or enable it or empower it and to make it happen in such a systematic way that involves all the world's most powerful elite. So that's my final thing is release the Epstein files that actually matter and show us who he was. It's not just about intelligence. It's about the financial network. And the reason I think that it's being covered up here is because it does implicate everybody. I think it implicates multiple governments, specifically the Israeli government. I think it also implicates the United States government. I think it's very uncomfortable for the world's richest and most powerful elite. It shows it, and the Bush administration, it shows the Trump administration. It shows the Biden administration, you said, on some of these, you know, some of the most powerful and influential people in the whole world. It's not necessary that they're on tape, but perhaps they're financially entangled. Perhaps the tapes were used, you know, at a time. And that's, I think the most disappointing thing about this. So my goal here was to give people the language they can use into as to why it evaluates your feelings as to why something is being covered up. And there's a reason they don't talk about this. They call you a conspiracy theorist. These are all facts. Everything that I've laid out. Can I say one? I think that was awesome. I don't know what the non-sexual person to be turned on is, but that was awesome. Yeah, that's interesting. It's almost like the blackmail ring, the sexual blackmail ring for the global elites is the conspiracy. Simply following the money outside of the child's sex trafficking might be what incriminates the most people. It absolutely will. Yes. It's almost like it benefits them for there to be focus on the child's sex right because they might not be tied to it or to talk or to talk in stupid terms of like client list. And it's like guys. They're on the island. Fucking girls. It's like as long as the focus is on that, it will almost be a letdown to find out. Oh, actually they didn't have sex anymore, but he was giving the a brought $2.3 million. And then the people go, that's only $2.3 million. What's the big thing? We thought they were having sex. It's actually like to their benefit for the public to believe this blackmail, the sexual blackmail ring and then be quote unquote let down by we should hope that there are less people having sex with children, by the way. We all want that to not happen. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to shine light on what's going on right here and understanding his influence and why he was able to operate with impunity despite being a registered sex offender. That's a thing that seems so peculiar and lends itself to conspiracy. Why was he able to behave in this manner? Why was he able to? Why were the higher ups at his bank able to thwart their responsibility to the SEC to their investors? In two weeks, if I withdraw $9,900 in two weeks, the federal government's not going on my door like they, but JPMorgan is going to flag my account. I think it was over 10 grand for them to know it, but if you they use 9,900, they have a mandatory reporting, but if they have, they have things in the bank to make sure that you're not, if it looks suspicious to do 9,900, two weeks of their like, all right, he's trying to violate, trying to make sure that he doesn't come under reporting. We're going to the feds. We're notifying the IRS. The IRS, by the way, again, has all of this documentation. Yeah, the bet is not so stupid to be like, oh, it wasn't 10,000. Right. They're not dumb. They have software. They only palent here. That's what they use palent here for. It's automatically flag. All of these suspicious, suspicious activities. My point is only that all of this exists and you as Americans, you guys need the language to be able to know what to ask for. I was telling Mark earlier, one of the reasons why it took so long to get Cointelpro and MK Ultra is that it took people breaking into a warehouse to learn about the specific code words so that they could then FOIA and ask to investigate without, without knowing what to ask for. You don't know what to ask for. It's an unknown, unknown in the words of Donald Rumsfeld. It's one of those things where you can't even begin to go down the rabbit hole if you don't even know where to start. This is interesting. Yeah. And this is why, and by the way, again, they're very, very powerful people right now today who are trying to make sure you don't look at this. You have the Prime Minister of Israel, the Prime Minister of Israel, Neth Tolley Bennett. He never worked for Mossad. There's an entire influencer set right now. Mark Levin now includes the President of the United States and all of these, like kind of Zionist influencers who are calling you an anti-Semite because they say that there's no evidence. And they define the terms to be like, he worked for Mossad. I'm not saying that he directly was an employee for Mossad. He was run from the very beginning. I'm saying he has shows all of the hallmarks to use an infamous phrase of being some sort of an asset working with these various intelligence agencies. And I think that that stuff is so dirty that they just don't want to get into it. And this is where Trump, I mean, we have to be honest. We have to call it out. Bro, I have the evidence here that we can go through of like what they said in 2023. And what they say today. It's a plus the seven congressman that voted against Rokhan as a amendment. I know. I know. That's crazy. All right, guys, it's day of break for a second. Listen, it's summer. Grill season is upon us. and if you're the type of guy, takes pride in a perfectly seared steak like a real man. It's time to stop messing around with flimsy kitchen gear. That's why you need Hex Clad. The cookware that's serious about giving you the perfect sear. Not only do Hex Clad pans give you that perfect sear. They're durable. They're easy to clean up. Stainless steel strengths, hawks and free non-stick convenience and they look damn good on that stovetop. But the real game changer is Hex Clad's Japanese Damascus steel knives. 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You want to supplement that you could enjoy. This isn't a chore. Something to look forward to. So right now, you go to www.gruns.co. Get up to 52% off. Use the code filagrants. Let's get back to the show. We were in this very interesting media spin in the last few days where I was doing what I thought we were supposed to do, which is hold our elected officials accountable for the promises that they say they will make. I didn't realize that now I know better that you're not. You're just supposed to let them do whatever the fuck they want, despite them promises. As long as they're consistent. Yeah, you just have to be honest. That's right. But yeah, to that note, I've thought about this a lot. I actually think that when the person you voted for is in power, that's when you have to be the loudest. You're exactly right. Thank you for saying that. Because that's the only opportunity for you to get the things that they promised enacted. When someone that you did not vote for is in power, there's nothing you could do because they're not going to do the things you asked for anyway. So you should be stomping the pavement. You should be clamoring. And when they're not doing the things, you should be going, Hey, this is not what I voted for. This is the thing you want. This is the thing against everything that you said, not everything. But why you're in a cult? You're in a cult because everybody's like, trust the plan. No, I actually don't trust the plan. Like during my life, that 40 chest shit. I hate to trust the process. How about I trust what the fuck you said you were going to do and how about you do it? Thank you. I mean, again, this is important. Everybody is always like, Oh, there's a split in a mega base. I actually think mega by and large will always kind of support Trump. But that I'm going to define the terms narrowly. And this is kind of where we're all speaking to. Yeah. If people were speaking to are not like, mag, maybe some of them, a lot of them are disaffected. They're men. They're people who are tangentially interested in politics. And the reason why the Epstein story was important to them is it confirmed basically the way that they thought about the international elite. And they saw Trump and Caspar-Tel and Dan Bongino as those who would work to like, assert that power. A conduit to justice. Exactly. And for them to watch that betrayal now that's happening is one that only confirms the way that the system basically works. And it causes very uncomfortable questions here. I was saying this yesterday. But it's like, if I wanted to vote for somebody that was going to keep the Epstein files under wraps, it was going to extend the foreign rose and there was wars. It was going to increase the budget. I would have voted for Kamala. Yeah. That's right. And by the way, by the way, probably would have done it more competently. I'll say it. I'll just say it. Like, like, like, like, it would have been very easy. Yeah. It's all normal. And we wouldn't have had to live through this last six months of like whatever bullshit is happening in the current day. I mean, yeah, look, I mean, literally today there is a, you know, you want to go and pull this up. You can go on my Twitter feed. Donald Trump is sending $10 billion of new offensive weapons to Ukraine. Not only that, by the way, it actually came out from the financial times that he reportedly told Zelensky that Ukrainians leaked to this part of the phone call. Who knows if they're telling the truth, but the Trump administration has not denied it is Donald Trump asked Zelensky if Ukraine could hit Moscow and actually asked them, Hey, Zelensky, Vladimir, he said, do you have what you need to be able to hit Moscow to hit St. Petersburg? These are the World War three fears that I, you guys know the last time we hear we were spending an hour on Ukraine. So you can disagree with me if you'd like. He said he wasn't going to do that. So here's the thing. And this is where I have like a little bit, I give him a little bit of wiggle room. And maybe it's just hubris. I think Trump actually thought that he was going to walk in. I think Trump actually thought that the only reason they're wars is because of lobbyists in, lobbyists in government basically going, Hey, we need to sell more military weapons. Let's have some wars around. So he's like, once I get in, I'll just call it Vlad and I'll be like, you know, Vlad, you're like, once man, so he knows the game. Okay, and that's fair. And then that then that could be my night of the day. And I'll be able to count on both of that, right? And I'm, I guess I'm like hoping best case scenario because at the end of the day, I don't care what fucking side you're on. You don't want to see hundreds of thousands of people get murdered. Yeah, that's right. You do for profit. Yeah. You do not want to see hundreds of thousands of people get murdered for profit. So you can say I told you so you can do all these other shit. But at the end of the day, you just have to ask yourself, do you want to see hundreds of thousands of human beings get killed for profit and millions actually now. I personally don't. Yeah, I don't have I personally don't. So what I'm going to do is if there's somebody that says I aim to stop the foreign wars and there's another person that says, well, we got to do what's right to keep my eyes all I hear is less people dead, more people dead. If you can sleep at night voting for the person that says more people dead over the person that says less people dead, that's fine. I can't. Yeah, that's not for me. Me. Same. That's not exactly what the fuck. Gaza looks like. And I'm like, I want that to stop. Yeah. I see what the fuck is happening. You create Russia and I want that to stop. So I don't feel that all you regret whenever I don't regret a fucking second for voting for the guy who said that less people are going to also all the things about he lied. He's a liar. I don't know many promising it overturned Rovers way the first time. So I don't think you can get shit done. January six protesters. I'll pardon all them. Yeah. Yeah. It's just important also to say what promises are being kept? What are not? All right. So immigration. I actually say he's kept a lot of his promises. Unfortunately. But well, let's we'll argue about this later whenever we record from my show. But my point around here is let's look specifically Epstein. The Epstein memo is released when the day before Benjamin Netanyahu visits the United States of America for the third time in six months. July four. We can resident in the United States. We have Benjamin Netanyahu who by Trump's own account attacked Iran by the US green line where US diplomacy was used as a ruse in order for the Israelis to conduct a military operation. We have United States military assets that were used to bombing. Ron, which is, I mean, gotta be one of them. Like again, like you said, you had a presidential campaign where yes, Trump would always say we cannot let him Iran have a nuclear bomb. And I know this. And maybe I was too close to it. I knew many of the people involved like in the actual decision making. And I know that they have ridiculed people who have quote wanted to bomb Iran for years. So then to watch that all just flip around. And now President Trump is the greatest deal maker and strength artist of all time when you would have ridiculed this level of logic long before. And we have all of this reporting that actually the nuclear program really wasn't destroyed. And the reason that you could look at that is that the Israelis are leaking it right. You know, Joe, if you want to pull that up, Israel intelligence says Iran nuclear facility not destroyed. This is from the New York Times a couple of days ago. Oh my God. And so look like it. So now there's a reason to continue. Now we got to continue. Right. And it's like, oh, but I was told that the 12 day war was the only time I was offered. Well, you guys, do you guys want to do some history? All right. So in 1981, Israel took out the Iraq Iraqi nuclear reactor. They bombed it. And they said we have solved the Iraqi nuclear program question for all time. What did we end up invading Iraq for the market for WMDs, right? And what actually happened as a result of that is that the nuclear program was driven underground in Saddam actually was more convinced than ever that he needed to acquire nuclear weapons to the point where he almost tried to create an image where he was having nukes, which which caused the United States to invade him in 2003 in 2007. Israel did what? It struck the Syrian reactor and the nuclear program. And the decision point beyond that was, listen, it's just about the nukes. It's not about regime change. Does anyone want to tell me what happened to the Syrian regime? We was replaced by whom Al Qaeda on behalf of whom Israel, all right? Israel literally supported the Syrian jihadist government. And ironically today, they're actually bombing them because now the Al Qaeda government is acting like al-Qaeda and persecuting religious droos minorities in the country. And by the way, their justification, the Israelis for bombing them, is that Syria has moved across the new border that Israel has declared for itself by seizing parts of Syria. Now we are supporting Ukraine for what? Because Russia invaded them. What is a seizure of territories, a result of a regime change, operation in Syria? Is that a violation of norms? Rules me and not from the rules based international order. And the way that a civilized nation would conduct itself. Well, I think the concern here is, is really like if you are an autonomous nation, you got to handle your candle. So if you want to do all this stuff, I'm going to leave. Oh, my gosh. That's on you. Yeah, but you bear the consequences. You bear the, and exactly it seems like we bear the consequences. And I think that's where the, I think that's where like an important fracture right here. If it was like, all right, we're going to go about it alone. And this is what we think is for our safety. And it's like, okay, we'll do that. The problem is every time they're about to go about it alone, they say we'll go about the loan. I think we get a phone call a few hours later and it seems like we go back it up. And you can really do whatever you want in the world with impunity if America has your back no matter what. And I think that's the kind of imbalance of power right there. And it definitely feels like there's an imbalance in terms of the relationship in terms of what we're offering each other. And now we're in a circumstance where like the war, you know, against Hamas has gone two years. And you look at them and Americans are starting to go like what, it's like, it's really kind of destroyed. I feel like you did it. Not kind of like it's destroyed. Yeah, it's true. And there's only people that I think Americans are starting to be like, okay, so we're paying for this. I can't buy an apartment. I can't buy a house. I got $300,000 with the school loans, but we're still selling billions of dollars over it. And you can't begrudge Americans for starting to feel like there's an imbalance in this relationship. Not even begrudge. I mean, honestly, America like, but I think in this way for years, but I think the important thing to understand is that it's not saying that an independent country can't go do what it means for its salvation. You just have to bear the consequences for those actions. Yeah. And I think Americans are starting to feel like we bear the consequences at least financially right now. Absolutely. And if we end up in some sort of ground invasion and Iran, we will bear the consequences. There's no question. What a nation of what I don't forget the population. I know. They're going to be able to invade a country of 90 million. By the way, yes, I do know the population of Iran. Thank you, Dr. Carlson. But look, that's really dwell on this. Like yes, what's happening in Gaza is being funded by the United States of America. And there's a large constituency here in America that says that's necessary for Israel to take out terrorism, whatever the hell that means. Apparently, requires killing at the minimum of like 17,000 children. I personally don't think civilized western nations conduct themselves in that manner. And everyone's like, what would you do? And I was like, America has the template, guys. Look, I will not defend the US invasion of Iraq. Do you know how many thousands of American service members died and were wounded in missions to protect Iraqi civilians? Ground. That was on the ground. The ground on the ground. Oots on the ground were way the American service members are maimed and were blown up to protect Iraqi civilians from an interest in civil war. This is a really, that is how you conduct a counter terrorism operation. I think the point that you're making is really important. Yes. Right. Is that in an effort I imagine to save Israeli lives, which I do empathize with because I want to save American lives. What they're doing is conducting war. Then would save the most Israelis, but unfortunately, kills the most Palestinian lives. That's right. And innocent Palestinian life. And then what you're making the argument is in Iraq, instead of us doing that, which we could have absolutely just like this. We have the greatest bomb. Who do you think sells all these bombs? Israel. Of course. We're coming for it. But we need a decision to do that boots on the ground, which cost American lives. Yes. Which was many deeply regrettable. I don't want a single American life. Me either. But, but I think that is where we can put ourselves in a position of criticism for the way the war is being wage because we have been in that circumstance twice. And I think Iraq and the United States, that's a really good argument. That is what war is. You have to sacrifice for a war. Okay. So, what types of war? So, this is the thing. They said it's to get rid of Hamas. And in that way, we have an out of war with the Palestinian people. We are at war with Hamas. So, how would you conduct that war? That we have an entire 20 years of experience, the United States military, where what we do is we want to separate the terrorists from the civilian population. So, we make sure that the civilians are protected. Soldiers are put in harm's way in order to separate those two and to be able to kill them. It requires a shitload of city combat. It's brutal. It's very difficult. It's bloody. It's like the rebels asked the Marines, all the people who had to participate. But it was semi-successful, at least in 2009, in the surge. It reduced the amount of civilian casualties as a result of the Iraqi civil war. But the other way to fight is when you're at war with the population and you want complete and total destruction. Yeah. That's when you fight like the United States on Japan in 1945. And I agree with what you're saying. And what's more analogous to what we're happening. So, we can look at the intention. But all I'm saying is, Akash, is the intention and the words matter. And the intention is obvious that they are actually at war with the population themselves. Right? Not just Hamas the terrorists. Yeah, which is very interesting. And I think that's a very important point for people to digest and to look at the conduct. That's the piece that I agree with you that Americans feel like we're bearing the brunt and all that. But also, when we invade, we are usually told, or when we aid a country in war, we are always told we are on the moral high ground. Yeah, that's right. I mean, Russia is invading Ukraine, this country that cannot defend itself. That's why we have to send aid. I know you, Ukraine. Now we're looking and we're seeing who we're supporting. And we don't have a moral high ground. They don't have a moral high ground. And yet we keep supporting them. So I agree with you that we feel like why are we bearing the brunt of this and we don't have jobs. But also, morally, we don't even have a high ground. So why are we supporting? And we've got the brunt Hamas as a high ground. No, no, no. We're so weak. It's real. It's real. It's flattening Gaza. We don't have a moral high ground with the way they aren't doing it. If there were boots on the ground and they're losing civilian, okay, maybe in Hamas is being exiled. This is why as America, I actually think we should not talk about moral high ground. I know that we have no way. Guys, every time, let's look at the history of the US moral interventions, Serbia, disaster, post-Avo disaster, 2003 goes without saying. Yeah. I mean, I can go on forever like Libya. I don't think we can stand like do it with the moral high ground. I think the perception we are sold is more high ground. And now we're just seeing. Talk about the story. Yeah, this is what I mean. I actually, that's why when I argue with liberals, I always tell them, I go, look, guys, I don't think you're doing anybody any good here using words like genocide or anything. It's not because I don't disagree with you, per se. It's just that when you couch, for example, when, and I talk about this last time, the debate becomes about the death of this kind of regime. It's humanitarianism and genocide. And it's like, no, we're not talking about that. We're talking about America's national interests. Yeah, we're talking about this. Is this good for us or not? And now we're talking about that where it's just like, now there's this debate on whether or not it's genocide. It's like, whatever right below genocide is, it's really bad too. Yeah, that's right. And that's murder. And more or more, it's like, it's like someone says, like, I'm not a pedophile. I just like 16. Yeah, that's right. It's like, isn't there a term? It's like, it's a Gileo 5. Yeah, it's a pedophile. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's one term. It's just pedophile. Yeah, exactly. But my point beyond that is like, look, let's define things in terms of America's national interests. What good are we getting from this? We're bombing Iran. We had a terror. Do you guys remember the terror alerts in the mid 2000s? Yeah. Do you guys remember that? Yeah, or whenever the Iran thing happened, they literally sent out a terror alert across the whole country. And they warned Americans living abroad to expect retaliatory attacks. That's America, our country. We are being felt. Yeah. The pain here, right? Just a cattari acid. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But you know the funny, the cattari, I mean, he's because I lived in Qatar. I went to high school and I hated it so much that I've talked for years about the mistreatment. The Indian slavery. Disclosing, just got invested, disclosure. Okay. Yeah. I just said it like because it's, you know, it's about being formed, some foreign, foreign acid or whatever. Why can't we all just be people talking in our own national interests? And I think the reason that they throw out anti-Semite and race whatever on all of this is specifically to shut down this conversation. And the best thing that's ever happened is that we're all here. But we can just talk honestly. It's really unfortunate because I think it, it's almost like a permission slip for anti-Semitism in a way. Because there are a lot of real anti-Semite. It's increased real anti-Semite. Yeah. But it's not even whether it's increased or not, there are a lot of real anti-Semite stuff there. And then when you throw the term around, when you're criticizing a sovereign nation, it gets lumped in with the people who actually do hate people because of their religion ethnicity. Right. And that's the problem I have. Like I always say this other time, it's like everybody thinks I'm Jewish, so I get all the anti-Semite. It exists. Like you guys might not hear it. I get it. I see it. So it's like, you can't just throw that term around so flippantly because they're going to say, "No one will take it to the world. No one will take it seriously when it actually does happen." And it does happen. And it is a real fucking problem. And I'm very concerned about like Jews in America who are dealing with it. And they're concerned. So it's, we got to be very specific. Like the green black guys throwing it around, he's calling the potsy of American guys anti-Semite. Exactly. Right. It's crazy guys. I think they also dismissed Elon's salute as well. I think the ADL was like, "No, they did." Yeah, they did. Yeah, that's right. They actually did. The ADL, which, you know, look, I mean, we can argue about that all day long, but the ADL is basically an arm for Israel. And this gets to the problem that I have with this whole like anti-Semitism industrial complex is they've conflated criticism of this foreign government with genuine anti-Semitism, which is the worst thing that you could possibly do for anti-Semitism itself because the term loses all meaning. Yeah. And look at, Zoran, if we want to talk about, I mean, you know, they blasted this guy, anti-Semite. We're in the most Jewish city, what, in the world except for Tel Aviv. That's right. We just won the Democratic primary and actually a lot of Jewish votes. I'll just tell you something, guys. That should show that these attacks don't work, but the thing is, unfortunately, in Washington, they still work. It's the worst possible thing that you could be called because of the way, look, it's ideology and it's money, and they're mutually reinforcing. So for example, I, and I talked about this on Tucker, you were talking to me about it, I don't get invited to all the things I used to get invited to. And that sounds really silly, but that's the currency of the town. It's fine. I just don't care. I get to come here, right? They're always asking me to connect with you. They're like, "Hey, man. I think Congressman Sohn, so should go on." And I'm like, "I guarantee you he doesn't give a fuck." And I'm like, "I saw him knocked him in his one hour." That's my point, though. There's a nice trade-off for me, and I've chosen this, but my point is with them, the currency of the town is one that is entirely funded by APEC or pro-Zionist interests. And the thing is, the way it's so nefarious is it bleeds into everything. And people who are working at the tax foundation to lobby for low taxes are being funded by people who are also very pro-Israel. So if employees there were to, let's say, make an Instagram post about Palestine, even though it has nothing to do with taxes, they would still be fired. They would be drummed out of the organization. And guys, these people don't make a ton of money. Like the lower level, the up-and-comers. When I was in my early 20s, we made Ashemian zero money. So it's not worth risk for them. Of course. You got to eat. You want to advance. You want to be connected to get a fellowship to do whatever. You have to follow mine. Even if you don't even work on Israel or Palestine, even if it's just a tangential thing, and you're like, "Eh, it's kind of fucked up." This is what happened. And this is what happened in Hollywood, not specifically with Israel and Palestine. I actually don't think at all with that. I think more with identity politics. Oh, absolutely. And I think that people were just really scared that if they had a serious opinion about anything, that they would be like, "You're done." Throw now, it did be, you know. And I think now that's moving away from that. Well, I think that's why what you do is so courageous, man. I'm like somebody who's got to actually intertwined with, I mean, you can say it better than me, but everything I've read, the studio system has got to be one of the biggest bottlenecks of pop culture in the world. Like it's literally just going to not care. A couple of agencies. And like, you know what this is? And this movie distributors. And you're fucked. But that's the bottom. They still think he's Jewish. But this is why it's always like annoying when people are saying, "Oh, you're just doing this thing for Trump or Gryfft." They're like, "Gryfft, it's like you don't realize how the real Gryfft is the other way." Yeah, I'm an entertainment. I'm an impolite entertainment. I'm not an immediate company. I'm an entertainment. So the idea of even having Trump on the pod, and obviously we have Kamala and everybody else in None of them came. But that costs us. Oh, yeah. There's not a financial. You're doing a hostage video for Kamala. That's your Gryfft. That's your Gryfft. That's my idea. A 1000 percent. I get it. I know. I know those things to comment. You would absolutely. And I think that people don't realize that piece. I think they assume, you know, it's, you know, politics, better than anybody. It's good versus evil. So as long as you're on the side of good, they don't see it as Gryfft. Oh, yeah. Right? So that there's all these people that are gryffting off Trump. Absolutely. And then there's people gryffting against Trump. The never-trump thing is a Gryfft as well. The win-win. Look it up. But also look up the pedophilia stuff with the Lincoln Project. I'm just throwing that out there. People want to look back at that. No, I want to look into it. But I guess what I'm saying is like the idea that like in order to, in order to Gryfft, you have to be like financially satisfied. I imagine by that thing. And in the entertainment industry, the industry that we exist in, you're putting yourself in harm's way. Dude. Like worse. So I don't even, like for example, like just, I mean, I had flat out the Netflix people saying, and who the fucking knows, but like, you know, I'm up for consideration or whatever for an Emmy for life. And I just had people tell me straight up, they're like, listen, dude, like, you had a truffle upon it. Like there's no way they're not going to give you an Emmy. And it is the best hour comedy that was put out. It should win. It just is. You know, I mean, like, no disrespect to anybody's there, but this not as good. Yeah. Right? And it's, but so, and if you want to judge it by any metric, you want to judge it by views, it has more views. If you want to judge it by like impact, you want to just, like, in my personal opinion, obviously. But like, that's the cost of it. So I think that's the frustrating thing I would imagine for all of us when we're like, no, no, we're actually curious about talking to these people and having these conversations. And we understand the cost of doing it. And we're willing to take on that cost. There is no risk when you're the anti-Trump grift. And you just do all these things. You virtue signal. You say I told you so to us for criticizing Trump. It's like, if you actually cared, you'd be worried about the midterms and you worried about the elections. And you would see people that were disillusioned by Trump not living up to his promises. If you actually cared and you'd be like, hey, here's an opportunity to bring people into a coalition and in a democracy, gain more votes and potentially win. >> Yeah, but you're presuming that they care about those. And that's my point. >> That's my point. They care about it. >> They want clicks and views. They're the exact thing that they're accusing us, but they are so caught up in their own hubris that they don't realize it. And you sit back here and you relax and I watch it and I kind of just laugh at it. But people take it serious. They look at these people and they, I think it just makes them feel good in the moment. And they can't disassociate that to what might be better for the country. >> Yeah, absolutely. Look, I mean, something I've always appreciated for this pod is we just talk. We talk to anybody. And I've known you long enough to know when you were a Bernie guy, right? And I always tell people that. >> See Bernie guy. >> Yeah, I know that. That's why people were so shocked to see come around. And I was like, guys, you just don't know Andrew, right? But it's one of those things where because I've been able to get to know all of you and the whole comedy scene or whatever, when people ask about podcast, bros and maga, I actually think it's if you're very representative of the audience and your turn against people who it seems we're like fighting for the system and to the extent that there was an appeal of Trump. And that's why it explains for somebody who could vote for Trump and also be like, yeah, mom Donnie seems America first to me. And it's because the horseshoe there, sorry, I knew you were first there. Okay, but the point is flated in New Zealand. >> But the horseshoe there is about talking about the country or the city that we're living in as opposed to these more establishment interests that you were elected to fight against in the Trumps case. But that's the appeal. And somebody was like, you speak to maga, right? And I was like, no, I actually don't. I was like, to the extent I have any authority, it's with 18 to 35 roles who are interested in politics. The vast majority of whom are pretty bipartisan, a lot voted for Trump. >> Yeah, but like those common sense people are actually very independent. They do go along with trends and other things. And they most important thing is they both think for themselves. >> Yeah, they're not in a cult. >> And they are not in a cult. >> Everybody's kept, not everybody. There are very loud people that are captured by the cults. >> Yes. >> And the cults are rewarded online with the algorithms. >> Yes, of course. >> There's the views and there's the clicks and there's the paths on the back and there's the yes, queens in the comments. But in reality, it's not representative of actual people. So when the actual people see people having common sense conversations, which I hope that we have on this podcast, you know, we get me today right now. We have the pod save guys on the pod. >> Nice. >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah, and like what's so interesting is like their criticism was the exact same thing that I was saying. And me and you were like, this reaction that I told you so is like typical fucking liberal. >> Yes. >> It dumb shit, where it's just like, we have an opportunity to use this frustration to win, but these people don't care about winning. So they're acknowledging the grift as well. And these are the most liberal guys you can imagine. >> You know why that they say that because they actually won an election. They know how to win a fucking election. >> They're like Obama. >> Like Obama. >> I mean, do you guys remember the state of Ohio? >> Yeah. >> He won that state. >> Yeah, yeah. >> He won Indiana. That's insane. >> And Magga is so well bringing people in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like you see people go to the protests where they pretend to fake protests on the other side. >> Right. >> So like liberals will go to the Magga side and then all the Magga people are like, yeah, come over. >> Yeah, they're like, hey, come on in. >> Yeah. >> Right. But my point actually is the way that that was sold. And now that people like you are beginning to speak out people like me and others, oh, it's like you are fake or you're not trusting the plan enough. And it's like I would argue that the least patriotic thing you could do is actually trust the government. >> I would actually argue also in the case of when you support a political movement is that the least impactful thing you could do is trust the plan. >> And because the people who don't trust the plan, they get shit done. You think Israel trusted the plan? >> Nope. >> When we were trying to do diplomacy, they were like, no, we're fucking bombing our plan. >> And you're coming in with us. >> Yeah, exactly. >> They always went. >> And that's the thing and I promise you, but I would imagine in the next week or two, we will get some disclosure about the Epstein files that we were not going to get. And the reason we got that is because there are people speaking out, there's a reason why the White House responded to us. >> Yeah, right. >> That's right. >> The people are speaking out, such as us, but it's a lot of people speaking out about our frustrations. Whether you like this or not, the White House, the current administration is very transactional. If they feel that people are becoming disillusioned, they acknowledge it immediately. So if you do not voice these things, you do not get what the fuck you want. It's like, and what do you actually want at the end of the day? What do you want? Do you want to feel good in the moment? Do you want to get your little clicks and views, make your little face to camera videos, or do you want to actually have some form of justice for a thousand girls that were victimized for it? >> According to the government, according to our US Attorney General, a thousand that was victimized for it. >> You actually want, because I'm glad you feel good with your past on the back. To me, it'd be pretty good to know if a thousand girls gets a little bit of justice. That would make me feel pretty good. >> Yeah, sure. >> So before we leave, can I ask, what is Trump's game with the Epstein files? Why would he, while he's president, Epstein has arrested Kills last time, and then runs on releasing the files, does the fake kangaroo release, and then now says that he was not working with any other conspirators? There's only two possible theories, which I was not that open to this one, which was that Trump is implicated in, until the more recent statements, why are my boys and gals like paying attention to all this, you guys all need to move on or on camera where he's like, are you really asked to last game about Jeffrey Epstein? By the way, the day after he put out that true social, he was tweeting about revoking Rosio Donald's citizenship. So it's it. No, I mean, it's funny, but he's like, you guys are focused on Epstein, where there's all this other stuff happening. It's like, bro, you're literally tweeting about Rosio Donald's getting denaturalized as a citizen. But that's one theory is that, look, I mean, I read you guys the code. He's told something really. He likes him young. He said that in 2002. He said it. So we're six months in. How do you feel? What's the job? I need to give the second. Oh my God. That was the first theory, which I did not give credence to. Also, Tucker made a good point. He's like, wouldn't have the Biden administration released it. I was like, well, I thought that they would have, but listen, what if they want to prick Bill Clinton? You can't release one. Right. And you have to release it. Because what would the Biden administration do? They've released one person right? Nobody else. And then we'd be like, according to Trump. We need to shut the funds. Yeah. Right. Obama created the files. Okay. And Hillary made the files of that couldn't. The second is that it would be devastating to our relationship with Israel or it was at a request of Israel or it'd be devastating to our relationship. If the CIA is that to be exposed, I mean, for example, everybody knows the CIA killed Kennedy. Why has the CIA fought the release of these documents for 60 years? Because they did. We just, we're just as, that is. I'm sorry. Okay. I'll get it. Okay. Okay. I'll get it. Okay. Let me be more precise in my language. I think that they were aware of and participated at least in some form in the plot that killed Kennedy. I'll put it more responsible. Not to kill at the very least involved in the plot and of course in the cover up. That's like actually not a question. So why did they do that? Because they knew that it would break the American public's irrevocable trust in the way that they conduct business. And that's why they fought for years to make sure that it didn't happen or that to release the documents. I think it's the same here in this case. It's like, look, what we have is so bad to, you know, to the CIA, to the FBI, to Mossad, to Saudi, to all these governments and to these really prime ministers and others that it would just be so revelatory of the way that we conduct business. It would be make it impossible for us to continue business as usual and serve business as usual is so important that we just have to release all of this stuff. And that's how the pressure comes down on cash, Patel, on Dan Bungino, on the attorney general. And yeah, I mean, it leads to them saying cash literally said in 2023, the Epstein files are under the direct control of the FBI director. He became the FBI director. And now he's like, it was all a conspiracy theory. The entire, he literally said that the conspiracy theories were never true. The conspiracy theories you invented, man. So you were either lying, then are you lying now? Bungino. I mean, I have, I have the clips that people can play if they want to of the stuff. We can never let up on this story. We can never let go. A attorney general, Pam Bondy from the White House lawn, which means, he means, used to mean something. I have the client list on my desk. There are thousands of victims. There are all the files we're ready to release them. And then, you know, Akash, I think you said this. You were like, either it was all a lie or you exploited the thousands of children to get elected. That's pretty fucked up. Yeah. If you did. So there's no good answer here. Personally, I lean to the latter. I think it's an intelligence thing and perhaps it has a crossover with Trump himself. I, which I did not believe. But when you say, when you say intelligence thing and this seems more realistic to me, not that the intelligence has devised this black male scheme. Yeah. Exactly. As I laid out for the multiple hours, but he was potentially an asset to multiple intelligence agencies. Right. And they looked the other way at his sexual deviant behavior. Mm-hm. So that they started to cover it up with the non-proscution agreement. Exactly. And that's the complicity. That's the smoking gun. Yeah. And that's why it still remains. I mean, look, even the Justice Department admitted that was a bad deal. We never should have done it. Right. And you know what the irony is, it's the Justice Department themselves, main justice, the Washington DC. They're the ones who told Acosta to do the non-proscution agreement. But then they turn around and they blame Acosta. And so like that's the main thing. Yeah. I almost feel bad for the guy, you know, in a way, because he probably looks like he was just doing what he was told. Yeah. And he probably wanted to continue the investigation. I mean, I don't know. He's still kind. Yeah, I agree. He was complicit and he lived with it. And he got rewarded for it. He was the labor secretary for like a day. No, for a while. 2017 to 2019. Oh, he rained for over two years. And then they got a lot of it. And then, well, yeah. And then he was the Patsy. They were like, hey, you got to go. Somebody got to go down for this. Yeah. And he resigned. I think he's very rich and probably works in finance or whatever now. But my point is just that it goes up high. And unfortunately, we don't even really know how high. And what's left to be released is still just an immense amount of documentation, which, no, we don't have a right to have it like a theoretical right. But we almost have like a promise here from the campaign from the president that they would release everything. They would declassify everything and they have immediately turned their back on that. I got these about. You guys wear six months in. Give me your grade on Trump. The good, the bad. What does report car grip? Well, you know, I'm actually not important in this. Just like, let's look at the issues like for things that I think he was elected on. I think he was elected on two issue three primarily. Number one is the economy because inflation was high. Inflation report came out today. It's actually increased 2.7% since June. A lot of that is in my opinion because of the incompetent way that they've rolled out the tariffs. It actually makes me really upset. I'm really pro tariff, the idea of tariff, strategic tariffs. I think the way that this has been done has been frankly a disaster. The only reason that it didn't crash the economies because he rolled them all back and said we're going to do a 90 day pause or whatever. But creating chaos in people's lives and fucking with people's businesses is terrible. Mark and I are new parents. Do you remember the, you know, the stroller problem about over 90% of strollers and car seats come from China? Well, you know, the up-of-baby stroller that like everyone in New York has, that went up by hundreds of dollars as a result of the tariffs. Sorry. I think the car seats have become more expensive. It's like you were elected to make life better for people. That's a pretty material way actually that Trump directly impacted me and all other new parents here in the United States. So that's where something I think creating that chaos economically has been a problem. On the bill, it's, the bill philosophically to me. I just think really comes away from a lot of the Trump promise and I think I heard you talking about the bill. I mean, let's just look at the math, right? They are like, oh, well, we're going to cut spending. And it's like, well, okay, but you increase the defense budget by $150 billion, right? By the way, Doge never looked at the DOD. What happened there? You know, like, where, where are you, Doge? Why did we fire like somebody in the National Weather Service and not someone in the Pentagon who can't pass an audit for five years in a row? And so, you know, these are, this is talk and it was cheap in my opinion. Like, they increase the defense budget and instead, you know, they put work requirements in Medicaid and in food stamps. I'm not necessarily against work requirements per se, but really what bothered me was the way they were increasing the dollar shift to the states. This is really wonky. I apologize to everyone, but the end result is that more people could probably lose healthcare and or food stamps. Again, we can have a conversation about welfare and food stamps and all that. But it was the priority of increasing the defense budget of extending the tax cuts, which are pretty overwhelming again for the top 100%. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So helping people overseas and you got people who are at least precarious, you know, in terms of that. So I think that the bill was a big miss in my opinion. On the simple promise of make America great again, it seems life for most Americans is not as good as the other one. I think that the fundamentals still remain the same. And that's the problem is I don't see a concrete way to fix that. So yesterday a report came out from the National Association of Realtors that the average vote first time home by around the United States is now 38 years old, used to be 27. And look, Trump can't just wave a magic wand and fix that to the extent that he can do anything it's to fire the Fed chair. And I guess, you know, let's give him credit. He's trying to try. But my point is just that the GOP as a whole and that bill did not seem laser focus, you know, on those problems. So I would say I don't think it's gone very well. Then, you know, on immigration, I mean, look, as controversial, I wait for Andrew, I would say of all the things that he quote, promise to do. That's the one where he really has, you know, I think he's delivered. The problem in my opinion is like the way the administration decides to conduct itself is kind of like an Iraq like shock and all approach where you come in with these big operations. Now, I will explain the logic. The logic is because there's 30 million people here, probably who are illegal, deporting them all even with billions of dollars is like probably impossible. So you want to stage these like large scale things to get people to self-deport. And then, probably a million people or so, according to the administration is left. We don't have a way of checking those numbers, which is why it's kind of difficult. But I would put it all together and I would say that the story to me is just chaos. It's like one that flips back and forth. We have Doge, which is in power, Elon's the co-president. Then he leaves, right? And now he's, you know, talking about Epstein files and the America party. And then we, Bobby Ron, very shortly afterwards, we said we weren't going to do that. And then we had the tariff, bruhaha, like in between. It doesn't feel as if there's like a steady hand on the wheel of chaotically, I mean, and I would apply that to immigration as well. The biggest criticism Americans have right now about the immigration policy is not even necessarily deportation. It's the chaotic way that they feel it's being handled. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Like, why were people so mad at Biden over the border? Because of the chaos at the border? Like, let's give Trump credit. He did fix that. There's zero illegal crossings. Fine. But the point is now they look at the raids themselves and the way they're conducted and kind of like blown up by the White House as chaotic, right? And I think that when you put it on the board, you're going to have to be a little bit more put that together with the way that the tear of policy, the immigration policy, and even the war policy. I mean, we were negotiating with Iran, and then we weren't negotiating with Iran. We berated Zalensky in the Oval Office and told him we didn't have the cards, and we're giving him more weapons. It doesn't make any fucking sense. And then the Epstein thing as well, you run on it, you say you have it, and now you say you don't have it. It screams like chaos and kind of incompetence. And I can see why a lot of people are moving against it. So that's like my awesome, real, what grade would you give a fuck? That sounds like me. Oh, best. But me personally. Yeah, I mean, I would go issue by issue. So like on foreign policy, I genuinely, I would give an F, just in terms of Ukraine and Israel, on immigration considering what he ran on. I would probably give him like a B+, just 'cause on the merits, I think he actually is doing almost every single thing that he said he would do. If anything, I would say my criticism, I mean, what should be open about it, I'm very pro-mast deportation, but my criticism of it is that it seems like in many cases, they went more for the show as opposed to like the policy. And I think that's the problem. So there's like micro-personnel versus target. Could a lot of people not? And also the reason I will not give it an A is because a huge portion of the immigration machine was used to go after these like pro-Palestine students for speaking out against Israel, I'm like, yeah, fuck that, sorry. That's like a total, not only a free speech concern. It's like why are you using the resources of my government to deport critics of another country? What? People who are here legally that have this in the least of our problems, all right? But let's put that to the side. So on the economy, yeah, I mean, look, this isn't me speaking like people know I'm like, I'm pretty out of step with like the trickle down GOP, but like, I don't know, I think the big beautiful bill was a disaster. Like, not only in terms of its unpopularity, but it didn't invest in all the things, it didn't invest in making America better, like as a country, there's no massive expansion of manufacturing tax credits. There's no like ability to compete and deal with China. It was really just kind of like a personal tax extension for the rich, more corporate tax extension for business as usual. That just, I think business as usual is what he was elected to like go again. So for me, it's like a seat. So here's what you can average all that together. I don't know what that is. Here's my question. F A plus C. Yeah, so what is the conservative party go from here? We ask and to after the election, what is the liberal, where's the Democratic party go? The conservative party, what are you all gonna do now? Well, what do you mean conservative party? Like the Republican party, the conservative, the Republican. Those are two very different things. That's a Republican party. Where do they go from here? What's the difference? Conservative is an ideology, Republican is a party. So the conservative, so to be conservative is, it's not too big. Yeah, I thought you'd say. That's more of a medic, obviously. So it's like a conservative or a two? In many cases, Maga is not conservative actually. Most Maga voters are on Medicaid and they don't want it to be cut, so they don't care about entitlement spending. That's a non-conservative position, right? But it's conservative to cut government spending. So those are kind of a direct tension. I could talk forever about this. It's a very inter-Washington kind of conversation. What it means to be conservative and kind of what it means to be a Republican and Trump, in my opinion, the reason why he was able to succeed is because he wasn't conservative and he even said that. He said, I'm not a conservative. Whenever he was running in the 2016 primary, he is originally, at least to me, was more what I would call a rightist. Like more somebody like the European right, a culture warrior who kind of accepts the legitimacy of the social welfare state and has more populous policies, but that's not conservative, right? And it's very, very different. I know this is semantics, but it is. - Of course it's good. - It's important to analyze what we mean. - So what happens to, I think, what you're trying to say is the Republican party? - Yeah, the Republican party, I mean, they saw a lot of choices. You got three and a half more years to go. That's a long-ass time. Who know? All of this could be ancient news. I don't think so. I think in general, if you look at the history of the presidency, you're basically baked by 100 days. They wasted their whole 100 days on doge, in my opinion, which was a disaster at this point. I think we could fairly say. And then they did the tax cut or the tax bill, which exploded the deficit, increased defense meaning by 150 billion. - Yeah, the next 100 days was much better. - You know, then they did Israel, the Iran thing. Now they're doing Ukraine. Who knows what's gonna happen with that? I skipped it over the tariffs, which I talked earlier, which were bad for the public, and have not been handled competently really at all. So for them, their problem is that they're in a cult of personality, like they're locked into Trump himself as an action. And the biggest problem for them is when John McCain lost, he was like, okay, it's your, you guys do what you want. When Bush left, he was like, I'm out, right? They fuck off. And with Trump, like, do you guys ever see him not trying to guide the Republican party? He would never allow. A post-mort, when Romney lost, right? The entire Republican party had to have a conversation. Who are we? What do we stand for? And the conclusion was, not that bullshit, not Romney, right? That's not gonna stand in with the Trump party, right? So I think that, you know, they have a lot of issues like structurally for where they wanna go. In my opinion, they won the popular vote for the first time in 2004, since 2004, for Republican, they flipped all kinds of crazy states because of the economy and really because of immigration. And if they don't find a way to flip their numbers on both of those, and especially if the American way of life does not get materially better at a structural level, I think they're gonna lose. And I think they deserve to lose, if that's what happens. If that age for a first time home buyer goes from 38 from today to like 42, and if home prices continue to go up, and the supply continues to go down, if we don't, if we see wages stagnant, if we don't see like real material changes to the way people live, I just think, yeah, I think that the Republicans will lose. And we always live in a change election, right? - I don't wanna divert from this too much. I know that we probably gotta wrap up soon 'cause we do something for you. - Yes, yes, yes, yes. - So just real quick, obviously, you know, we're in New York City right now, greatest city in the world. - Yes, and there's an interesting mayor election coming up. What are your thoughts on the cultural circumstances that have happened, that have propelled Mamdani to superstardom and a primary victory? Mamdani is a, there's this phrase from back in the day and it's a vindicating phrase to me. It was all politics is local. That was what they used to say back in the day. In 2010, it actually flipped because there were all of these Democrats who lived in Republican areas and they just got blown out even though they lived there for 20 years because they're like, "You support Obama." And the Republicans were like, "Oh, I can't deal with that." "You know, you support Obama." Mamdani was a return, right? Because what is opponents did is they made their entire campaign against him about Israel and he's like, "No, guys, I'm talking about New York City. I'm talking about the Halal carts. I'm talking about rent is too damn high." And what I really love about that is it subverts all of this like national political rhetoric, D.I. style language and it brings us back to, what are you gonna do about New York, dude? - Which is what people need when they're suffering. - And that's what people need exactly. And this city, you know, people have made a lot about, like, "Oh, Mamdani won the rich people making 100 grand. I'm like, bro, New York 100 grand, you're like a rent poor." - You know what I'm saying? - That's a good idea. - You got a poor, you're like, you're poor shit actually. Like on a bed like a guy. - You're legitimately eligible for the housing law. - No, like guys making 50K in Iowa are way richer than one of them. - Yeah, who are making 100, like post tax, post state, local federal, 100K New York? Like I'm like, you got to run it. - Yeah, it's like, bro, you got multiple roommates. Like living in a three bed if you're like 25 and, I don't know, the Alphabet city or something like that. So yeah, let's recalibrate for New York expectations. - My favorite video that he would do is like the Halal cart video. You know, hey guys, Halal's too expensive. Let's make it eight bucks a year. I loved whenever he walked across Manhattan. And the thing is, what he was able to do, he'd be like, "No, you're obsessed about Israel." - You guys are the way, I'm not spending all my time talking about this. I would stay here in New York and hear all my policies to trying to change that. - That's awesome. - And if you've lived under Bloomberg, I mean, my criticism of this city is that they unfortunately kind of turned into a playground of the rich as opposed to a place that people lived. You know, when the stuff I would read about the 1980s in New York, I'm not saying it didn't exist. - That's the last minute of playground for the rich. - It definitely has, but it has become the capital of a global financial elite for a certain, you know, I mean, when I walked here. - It's all right, it's great. - Yeah, but I mean, I don't know. I mean, when you walked around the 80s, it's just like, "Do you barely even hear English on the streets here in the summer, right?" Half of these people, they're from fucking, well, that's why I saw you, Arabia, Germany, like all over the world. - I don't know like that. - Yeah. - I think you're describing London. - Oh, that's true. - But in terms of, I think the difference now is that like everybody always came here for opportunity. - That's what matters. - If you remember, you came here for opportunity. If you're from America and you moved here from like Wisconsin or Maine, you came here for opportunity. You think you're gonna work at a big fund. You're thinking to be a graphic designer, you think it'll be a fashion design or something. It's always opportunity. And I think that what's happening now is that kids or Gen Z feels like the only way to make it now is through TikTok. - Yeah. - And I don't begrudge them because when we were coming up at least in their entertainment, there was like Comedy Central and TV. There are these things that you could get on that made it feel accessible. And even if it wasn't accessible for you, there was this idea that like next year, they're gonna do an audition. And maybe I'll get that, right? This idea of like getting on SNL. All these different things were possible. And one of the nice things about the decentralization of entertainment and making it go on the internet is that it gave freedom for people like us. Who wanted to go after it and make it ourselves? What problem is not everybody wants to go after it and make it themselves. They want institutions and structures that are established that they can hope to get accepted by and put on. And now that those have fallen apart and that's just entertainment. Now I think people like, so I just gotta go viral on TikTok. It's just like, I love that, because I love the idea of like I'm in control of my destiny. Not everybody loves that. And I think even the illusion of opportunity is better than luck. Yeah, definitely. And I think they're seeing that in not just entertainment, but you're probably seeing that in other spheres as well. And to go back to what you're saying about like you make $100,000 a year, but you have $300,000 worth of debt. I think that's why the rent freeze is so enticing to people because if you're spending $1,700 a month, let's say on your student loans. And that's just the interest. You're not even chipping away at them. That's your savings. So if you, again, take your rent from $5,000 a month and you take it down to $3,300, now you have your savings again. And I think in a way, the program is kind of like punishing landlords for universities charging exorbitant prices. Yeah, that's right. So you're just passing the book to someone else. It's like landlord is a bad person, of course, because they own this property and there are shitty landlords. I get it. But like I think the core of the issue is the fact that these kids are saddled with this debt with these degrees that offer them nothing in the city like New York and they're paralyzed with this fear that there is no opportunity for a mobility. That's very well said. And what you're getting to, well, rap here is like a structural issue, which is that America and our general, I'm younger millennial. Like I'm 33 and when I was coming up, it was you go to college and you will be rewarded. And now I'm actually at the age where I get to look back at who made it and who didn't. And I'm telling you guys, my friends with the most debt, they didn't make it. It's fucked up. And that, you watch the choices that people have to make. We're going to delay having a kid. That breaks my heart, man. We're going to have to move wherever we, even though we want to live here, we have to go move somewhere else because we can't afford it. Even though this is the best place to make money, right? This is the best place for my career. I can't have it all. You have to make serious choices. You can't take the risk necessary for success. It's almost impossible to become successful without taking on immense risk quite literally. When I started my business, I had $50,000 in credit card debt. I would have been fucked if breaking points didn't work. But I was like, I'm young. I called you before. I was like, I think it'll work. As I think so. But we would have been actually hoping somebody with $300,000 in time. They're not doing that. They have a job that actually pays for things. Yes. And they go, I can't risk leaving a life in kids. Oh, I mean, life in kids is like, I think that's such a. The extratic spirit in terms of people. Exactly. So, yeah, I think that that contributes to the support from Moldani and specifically the demographic that seems to be really excited about what he's going to bring. But to me, there's a little bit of this passing the book. It's like, okay, we have this thing. We can't move, which are these loans. So we got to move it to another area to free up some economic mobility for these people. And I get. And if you're one of those people that's out of that debt, like, you don't give a fuck who got to pay for it. Like, as long as it's not you. So I get that. They're offering a solution that maybe in the long term will hurt people. And I want to talk to them about it because I want to see like how we grapple with that. Like, what? It's got to come on the show. No, I've been talking. I've been talking about that. I've been talking about it too. So it looks like that's going to happen. Because I genuinely want to ask earnestly, like, what are the downstream effects of some of these policies? How does that work? But there's no question that they're enticing. And it's not to the poor. People think that all the poor love the socialists. No, no, no, no. It's the middle class that are entitled in their brains to a better life that they're not having that this is so enticing. They're like, wait, why am I saying economic bracket is my parents? I was supposed to be rich and lower the board. Yeah. Yeah. And in my opinion, you're materially much poorer than your parents. You're way materially poorer than your parents. And that's fucked up. I think that's wrong. And that's a systemic problem that gets to the very structure of our economy. I mean, one of the most important facts in the world from my friend, Joe Weisenthal, is that is Shanghai Stock Exchange has barely grown since 2009. But everyone in China, that you are way more materially rich since 2009. In America, the number has to go up. So must return specifically at eight to 9%. Our whole retirement's banked on that. Our whole economy is banked on that. And it doesn't matter if the shit that we own is nicer or not, it must return. It must have dividends. It must have payoff. And in Shanghai and in Beijing and all of that, they're like, oh, we don't give a fuck about that. They're like, are we getting drone deliveries? Are our houses nicer? Are our electric cars the best vehicles in the world hands down? I'm telling you, if their ban was lifted, I would buy them tomorrow. There is no, there is no competition. I would throw the Tesla. I'm getting in the Yang Wang. Like it's done. B-Y-D, let me in. Huawei. They have the best cars in the world. It's genuinely not a question. Not best electric, best cars in the world are in Shanghai, Beijing. Like the Chinese peasant, or you know, is materially much better off than the United States than it was. Compared to 2009, then the average American from 2009 to 2025. So let's all spend some time asking why. And a lot of it is debt-levard projects. Education being sold. Badly structured debt. I mean, the way that people are even, how do you get rich in America today? Most, for most people, it's like, or even really filthy rich. It's to work in hedge funds and in finance and micro transactions for stuff that does not make this country better off. If you, you know how you get rich in China, the government goes, you're allowed to get rich. You can do it by building the best electric cars in the world. Oh, the hedge funds, you're gone. You're going to, you're going to the gulag. Actually, we don't do that here, right? And I'm not advocating for that system. But in comparison to ours, it does work. And that's a deep question that we all have to ask. It's a structural problem. Who is better off today? I believe that the Chinese are better off as a result of their way of life, which is really fucked up because I think we have a much better, we had a path. We didn't always used to be like this and we could go in another direction. That's right. There you go. It's not just Reagan. They're all, they're all complicit now at this point. Soger, thank you so much, bro. We love you. Appreciate you guys. Thank you guys. We appreciate you.