The Frayed Ends | Chapter 7

This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listen to discretion is advised. Several weeks after our search at Lake Lanier, I still haven't decided how I feel about not finding anything, other than an empty plastic barrel. On one hand, it's unfortunate that this case will continue to drag on in search of answers. On the other hand, I'm not sure I really wanted to bear witness to a grieving mother finding out that her son's remains were pulled from the bottom of a lake. So for now, the search for Justin Gaines and for answers continues. Erica Wilson and her family have been through more heartbreak than I can imagine over the years since Justin disappeared. They've had to bear the constant sorrow of losing a child, while having no answers to explain why it happened, where he is. But this one, unfortunately, not be the only soul-crushing below the family would be dealt. In 2011, one of our sons took his own life. On January 17, 2011, Justin's stepbrother, Jeremy Wilson, tragically died of his fixation. He, just like Justin, was only 18 years old. Erica has a much harder time discussing Jeremy's death, so out of respect, I leave it alone. Erica pains over Jeremy's suicide because she'll never have a hope of knowing why. Or if anything could have been done to prevent it. I've learned that talking about Justin is good. I have the easier time talking about Justin than our son's suicide because that's the whole mother thing. I talk about both, but I mean, Justin, I talk about all the time. I have no problem talking about Justin. I mean, it's easy. It's a sad series of very unfortunate losses. The Wilson family has been forced to endure. But somehow, they find the strength to keep moving forward. At least with Justin, there is still the hope of finding answers. From Waveland, I'm Sean Keaton and this is Drowning Creek. I spoke on the phone with Bob Polno recently to try and get my bearings after all I've learned. He's been on this case a long time and knows the frustration of dead ends as well as anyone. My question, I'll be looking in the right direction. When you're in the middle of an investigation and the pieces to the puzzle start to fit, you run with what you have. Sometimes you have to step aside and think it was yourself and I'm making the right assumption, you know, as hard to do. I'm reminded of how, in my investigation so far, though there have been many names thrown around, like Martin Wilkie, Leon, Shane, New York and others. I'm always brought back to Dylan Glass in some way. Glass has been adamant that he's innocent and nothing more than a victim of circumstance and some prejudice that local law enforcement has against him due to his past. But what if Dylan Glass is right that investigators have been looking at the wrong man all these years? What if he is actually innocent? What then? In one conversation with him, he proposed a few alternate theories for me to explore. I had to keep Dylan engaged in talking no matter how ridiculous or obscure these theories of his might seem to me at first. And no matter how much I felt like at times, he might just be grasping at straws or trying to divert the attention away from himself. Dylan brought up Justin's close circle of friends and the fact that some of them weren't as helpful as one would expect after Justin vanished. Something I questioned as well. These are things I've asked myself. If I was the police, if I was in tear-gateness and investigateness, these are things I would really want to know. Why did all your friends say they didn't have nothing to say because the detective was rude? If this is your friend, why don't you find a why don't you want to help? Let's be realistic. If we investigate this case, why would y'all say nothing? They need to look at his friends. They need to look at people that knew him. They need to find out why I ain't nobody said nothing that grew up with him. Why did his brother kill himself, man? What really happened? Why did he go to the club, supposedly by himself? Where are his friends at? Why don't they want to speak? But this up to me. On my theory, I believe that somebody that grew up with him, his friends, his brother, somebody that was from his circle, something happened. Whether it be an accident, or whether it be some hatred behind something else, something happened, and they don't want the truth to come out. Why were there people so close to just and gains that were considered standoffish to investigators? People like his roommate Chris, and Chris's girlfriend Amanda. I'm also told a young woman named Carrie who Justin was texting back and forth with the 90 disappeared has been unwilling to speak with investigators. Allegedly Justin and Carrie had been dating at the time. Chris's mother was an attorney in 2007, so could he simply have been advised to not say much, to not implicate himself in any way? But again, why if you had nothing to hide? None have responded to my attempts to reach them. Dylan then presents another theory, possibly the most bizarre yet. It's real Keith. Suspected cross-country serial killer, 34-year-old Israel Keys was being held for the kidnapping and murder of an Alaska coffee shop worker. They so far have eight confirmed murders and rapes, including a couple in Essex for Mont for others in Washington State and one more on the East Coast. Tonight the FBI now believes Confess serial killer Israel Keys took 11 lives, except from their previous count of eight. There is no one who knows me or who has ever known me, who knows anything about me really, because I'm two different people basically. Israel Keys is an American serial killer, who meticulously and methodically worked his way across the country, amassing victims for 11 years between 2001 and early 2012 when he was captured. Dylan wonders, is there a connection between Israel Keys and Justin Gaines' disappearance? At first, I'll admit that this seemed completely absurd and far-fetched. How could Justin Gaines possibly be connected to a serial killer? Dylan and I talked briefly about Keys, and I researched him extensively. From Alaska, not cold, with multiple victims and had his fucking teacher on a computer, and tells on his interview that he traveled with cash to be undetected in the United States, and was killing innocent people and hiding in the body. An army veteran, Keys traveled frequently, though he was largely concentrated in the Pacific Northwest. He's been traced to Vermont, New York, Washington State, Oregon, Texas, California, and Alaska, among others. He's thought to have committed murders in many, if not all of those states, including four murders in Washington alone. There are some who question if he committed murders abroad. Keys eventually confessed to the FBI that he buried what he called "kill kits" all over the country. The kits housed in watertight buckets or trash bags contained everything he would need to commit his crimes. Zipped eyes, a 22 caliber gun with a homemade silencer, a mask, and materials that would speed the decomposition of a body. Some cash as the FBI found had been in the ground for more than two years, and when Keys felt the urge to kill again, he would plan a trip to a location where one of these kits were located and then find a victim at random. He used only cash and would remove his cell phone's battery so he was untraceable. Though his victims were chosen at random, everything else Keys did was meticulously planned out, but he would eventually make the critical mistake of deviating from this normal routine of his. This is actual police dash cam audio of Keys shortly before his arrest. We're heading back up to the big family. I'm going to tell you that, but we're going to investigate it. Okay. Israel Keys was arrested in early 2012. After authorities traced his steps from Alaska to Texas as he used 18-year-old Samantha Konig's ATM card numerous times. Keys had raped and killed the young woman in Alaska. Dismembered her body and placed it piece by piece in a frozen overlay, while he ice-fished. When an FBI agent casually asked what he did with the fish he caught that day, Keys slightly dumbfounded at the question replied, "I ate them." But where does Dylan Glass make the connection between a monstrous serial killer like Israel Keys and Justin Gaines? Why is Justin Gaines' picture in this man's laptop with other missing person victims and people that he killed? Why is he in a man's computer in Alaska? Keys, who obsessively researched serial killers, was found to have routinely scanned the national missing and unidentified person's system website. Exactly why he did this is unclear, but when his laptop was confiscated after his arrest, it was discovered that he had downloaded and saved pictures of missing people from the website. A website where Justin is still listed as missing. With his connection to the FBI, I asked Mike Rising if it could be confirmed that Justin Gaines' picture was on Keys' laptop or not. We've got FBI agents in Athens. They're each assigned counties. That's how they work. I could get their email address and send them an email. Can you check this out? Is Justin Gaines' picture on Israel Keys? It may be bogus or not. I'll let you know what Mike comes back with if anything. In early December of 2012, Keys slid his wrist and hung himself in his cell at Anchorage Correctional Complex while awaiting trial. Before he did so, he drew 11 skulls on paper in his own blood and one pentagram with a crude depiction of the goat-headed idol Baphomet, the widely used symbol for the devil. Crawled on the bottom of that image where the words "we are one." And while you do the interview, you read his interviews online. That's what he tells you. He said, "Yes, he said I travel and take random victims all over the United States." They said, "Why?" He said, "Why not?" He said, "I used to use cash and build kill kits by this vicinity." He said, "So I would be undetected." "Oh, this is facts. They don't talk about that." "Oh, that's just a coincidence, too." Before his death, Keys confessed to several bank robberies, arson, and six murders, eluding to the FBI that there were others but wouldn't give up more information. He said that several bodies were discarded in various lakes across the country, which does eerily line up with Justin's alleged demise. But all but one of Keys' known victims were women. After researching the Keys case, I feel it's technically possible, but not at all likely. The FBI painstakingly detailed every move Keys made during his 11-year killing spree using rental car, hotel, and flight transactions. They even accounted for the number of miles each rental car was driven. According to the FBI, in 2007, Keys flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Los Angeles on October 29th and returned on November 2nd. While in Los Angeles, he rented a car and drove only 95 miles. I find it nearly impossible for Keys to have gone from LA to Georgia and back undetected during this short window of time, and there are no records of him flying or driving to Georgia. There's no information to conclude that Israel Keys was ever in Georgia at all during this time. I've heard many theories on what happened at Justin Gaines over the past several months. Scouring the internet, one can find claims of him running to Mexico, hiding out in Peru, or even that he may have been killed by the smiley face killers, a group of people committing murders across the country targeting white male college students. The smiley face killers have been largely disputed by law enforcement, though, as nothing more than an urban legend. But again, these are just theories, and to make any of them work, you have to overlook mounds of evidence collected by law enforcement in Georgia over the years. When it comes to dealing glasses theories on Justin's death, there's one thing we can wholeheartedly agree on. You can't convince me that I owe these people this young kid goes to a fucking club with 3,000 people, and nobody knows what happened. After almost a year, I feel like I've made some progress. I also feel like there's something missing. I'm gonna say something that some people might find unbelievable or even crazy at this point. That even after hearing everything I have about Dylan Glass, his confessions, his past, his rap sheet, and several eyewitness accounts involving him, I'm still not convinced he killed Justin Gaines. There is no absolute proof of it, no DNA, no other physical evidence, no body, at least not yet. But I do feel that he knows more than he's told me. While I continue to investigate Dylan and look for information on where Justin might be, I can't allow myself to fall into the trap of having tunnel vision. I have to chase down every lead as if it's the one that could break this case. With that in mind, I recently spoke with a woman named Jessica, who claims to have information. She had commented on a post on the Facebook page Erica Wilson runs dedicated to finding Justin. It was regarding a recent segment date line aired on the case. My friend tagged me on it and I was like, "There's no point in me even calling because they're not going to listen to anything I say." Erica personally reached out to me and she was like, "Have you talked to Mike yet? Have I talked to him?" And finally, someone listened to me. The people who were handling the case at first, they didn't give a shit, and then I'm just gonna be blunt. They didn't even write down anything I told them, they didn't, I mean, literally nothing. And I've been calling for years, like, 15 years. Before Mike Rising took over Justin's case, Jessica says she had reported her story to police several times and even called the FBI's tip line, but wasn't taken seriously. Their exact words were, "Well, this isn't lined up to what we think happened," and I said, "Well, respectfully, maybe what you think happened isn't what happened." Jessica's story is one that Mike Rising is now taking seriously because this woman seems to know more than she should, and it goes deeper than just Justin gains. I was hanging around with the wrong crowd, you know, 16, 17 years ago. There was a party at a lake house. One of my good, you know, girlfriends was like, "Hey, you know, she's starting talking to the sky, and she's like, "I don't want to go by myself, we've come with me." It feels like, yeah, sure. So I went. Shortly after she arrived, Jessica says she was approached by the man who owned the house. I walked down the driveway, and I guess he was on something, I'm not really fully sure what drugs he was on, but he took a look at me, and he called me Justin. He tried to attack me, and he said, "How are you still alive? You're supposed to be at the bottom of my lake." We put you at the bottom of my lake. This terrifying encounter took place in 2007, and though she remembers that it was cold outside, she doesn't know the exact date. But we can ascertain that it happened in early November, because Justin's disappearance wasn't yet public knowledge, according to Jessica. At the time, this case wasn't televised and all that kind of stuff, when all this happened. This had to be like right after. I was scared, because he tried to stab me. You tried to stab you? He did. With what? Yeah, and I. It took like four or five people to hold him back from me, and they were like telling me to go to the end of the driveway, whatever, and my friend had left, because she was going to a liquor store, and the liquor store was like a guess a good drive away. So I was just kind of there. There was some big name people that were there. Someone with the last name of Glass. Again, the name Glass arises when I wasn't expecting it. Is it possible that Dylan was there, or is she simply mistaken? Dylan's brother, Justin Glass, was in prison at the time Justin Gaines disappeared, so I doubt it was him at the party. She does know the name of the man she says attacked her, though. Jeffrey Jessica continues telling me what happened that night. They got him in the room, like in his bedroom. They kind of like walked him away. I had found out shortly after that that he actually tried to stab a pregnant woman in his basement. And this kind of like the same issue where he called her Justin and said, I killed you right here. How are you alive? I'm assuming that his conscience was eating at him, but the guys that he was hanging out with were bragging about certain things. And all I remember when he called me Justin, the guy who's last name was Glass. He told him to shut the fuck up. He's like, you're not just talking about that shit. You know, get your shit together. You're just fucked up. You need to shut up. Quit talking. Which scared me because then I could tell us something really, you know, really happened. And then after this happening, me realizing that there's a kid who actually went missing. And it terrified me. That's. that's what happened to me personally. After that, like I got that was it that was done after that because it just absolutely skips shadow me. So I kind of changed my whole my whole circle of people I was associating with. Jessica mentioned the man having attacked another woman in the same manner, which she tells me she actually learned from an officer when she went to follow a report with Gwinnett County police. I wish I knew the other girl that this happened to you because the only thing when I had called Gwinnett County before to talk to them when I told them my story all he said was well the things you're saying doesn't really line up to everything he's like all I can tell you is that there was a girl another girl that was pregnant that he tried to harm calling her Justin as well. How is that not relevant to them? I don't know when I told him everything that happened he's like well this just it doesn't align with what we think happened and I was like look dude I'm not telling you anything now if I'm just telling you what happened to me that night and it was literally right after this guy disappeared if it's been on my conscience it's been on my mind and Hidmaw needs to know. I have no way of knowing who this woman was so it's impossible for me to reach out to her for more information. Despite there being two victims sharing the same experience Jessica never heard back from Gwinnett County police. No one ever contacted me no one ever called my phone no it texted me no one reached out to her they just didn't care. Now Jessica has me wondering who this Jeffrey guy is and if he could be related to Justin's disappearance or was he just some guy on drugs and freaking out for whatever reason still if Justin's name hadn't yet hit the news this is highly suspicious and it should have been followed up on by investigators. Jessica then tells me something else she remembers it was something she noticed in the basement of the lake house while waiting for her friend to return from the liquor store and take her home. It was like an area that we were all sitting in because when we walked down the stairs one of the girls met the comment mean it smells like bleached out here really yeah they had ripped out all the sheet rock all of it there was no carpet I remember that there was no carpet there was no sheet rock you can tell like where they're used to be it creep me out you know like after all this stuff happens so I was just kind of like really home called one is that they're used there was a pool table or something there that used to be in the middle of the room or something and it wasn't there anymore is what they were saying they're like well we used to be able to play pool but we had to we can't use that pool table or something we had to take it out like the second that my friend got back like we left Jessica's not sure exactly what lake the house was on as she had never been there before and hasn't been again in 16 years her description of the basement being gutted and smelling like bleach is concerning as I've heard the same thing about Andy Pickens houseboat and his van before they vanished they as well have been renovated and smelled of bleach right around the time just and went missing it's also interesting that she mentioned a pool table in the middle of the room because Dylan told me that he used to play pool in Andy's basement is it possible that Jessica's getting things confused and it wasn't actually a house on the lake but perhaps near one obviously Andy Pickens wasn't the only person to have a pool table in his basement and if the homeowner was renovating and replacing the flooring they would have obviously had to remove the pool table so maybe these are just two different houses but the similarities in the stories I've heard are intriguing what Jessica volunteers next regarding Justin takes us right back to where we started with Dylan glasses confession I have a really good girlfriend of mine the father of her child got brought in for questioning over this and he failed his lie detector test he was worried sick that something was going to happen to him and she kept asking him well what did you do tell me what did you do did you have something to do with this and he would never tell her I know he did fell his lie detector test asking about if he had anything to do with Justin's death and that's not public knowledge who'd you hear that from his baby mama are you able to tell me his name Leon Jessica is right Leon was brought in for questioning and took a polygraph which he quote failed miserably according to investigators notes I don't know if you can get records but I can tell you that they have picked Leon up one time along with Dylan glass and took them both at the same time to some well that they thought that he was at and Dylan kept scream at him just tell him where the body's at man just tell him where the body's at and Leon was like I don't know what you're talking about in 2015 after Dylan confessed to police Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman told me he personally took Dylan and Leon to a remote area called High Sholes where Justin's remains were thought to be he told me Dylan pleaded with Leon to tell where Justin was buried but Leon wouldn't budge we were out on in Jones's woods in the middle of nowhere on a little bridge over a creek and I put those two together just like you are right now I put them face to face and Dylan looked the guys and man give it up they know I told them everything he just said then look not a word didn't say a word I've never seen it that thick I've seen the worst or the worst right after buddies if they think it's gonna save them but not here nobody's saying a word but Jessica tells me what she heard about Leon after he came home from that outing with the sheriff talking about he's something about I didn't I didn't really know him I didn't know him like that something about slashy that's why I thought maybe a watch but then when you said the earrings I'm like well maybe he did say if maybe it was the earrings that he was talking about that's why I think that he filled that lie detector test and all he kept saying he's you know was like well that can't be the only thing that they arrested for because the jury can't use that they can't do nothing without a body what Jessica tells me she discussed with Leon's baby mama could turn out to be extremely important not just for what she heard but for who is saying it the baby mama in question turns out to be none other than Heather the same Heather identified as the woman just and got into the car with outside of wild bills shortly before he disappeared she was identified by more than one person by name using the club surveillance footage Leon was also positively identified on camera at the club that night I want to talk to him but that thought has come with a stern warning from several people my only word to you is to do it in broad daylight and be very very careful he's not someone that you can just approach like that even sheriff Chapman seemed to give me a friendly reality check when I discuss speaking with people like Leon they kill one you know like the old folks say when you ask them does that dog bite they say you've got teeth ain't it something in I don't want you floating lately neither Chapman was half joking with me but there's also truth in what he says there's a real warning there a young man is dead and whoever did it has gone to great lengths to cover it up so what would they be willing to do if someone like me started poking around kicking the horn its nest it's a reminder that I have to take this seriously and I can't let my guard down how willing are you to dive into these waters it's a good question how willing am I but after something I've recently learned I might not need to dive in the waters again at all because this investigation into the disappearance of Justin Gaines once again has pivoted this time in a very serious way there's a house here in Walton County that came up with having Mexicans associated with the cartel living there this house is as far as the owners of the property and that as having been connected with the players in the Justin Gaines case there's not really a connection criminally between the people that own the property and Justin Gaines it's their children they're out doing their own thing they're all a little criminal acts which involve drug trafficking this cartel story you know it's been there the whole time right without anyone really realizing it which is I think why that anonymous call is so important because that name Chino Chino as far as you know is in some way tied to this cartel yes [MUSIC] Drowning Creek is an original production of Waveland, I wrote and created the series and the original score, Executive Producer Jason Hoke, Associate Producer Leo Culp, Sound Engineering by Shane Freeman, Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at [email protected] and if you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow Waveland on Instagram @wavelandmedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows and you can also find me on social media @shonkipeofficial or @shonkipe.com. As always, thanks for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]