The Flops Movie Draft

This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still ahead. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about flops. CR is here and we are drafting again, and so is Bill Simmons. Today we have a very special draft for you since we're in the direct. Since we're in the quiet part of the room. The release calendar, the last week of August, we're talking about flops. Is that teleprompter? Right after this, yeah. Okay, Bill, you're here. Yeah. You heard about this and you wanted in on this. Yeah, I like flops. You do? Yeah. I think we have to have some honor with this draft, though. Because by the categories, I think you could get, you could be like, Dazed and Confused, flop, didn't do well. It has to be something that was considered to be disappointing when it came out. Okay. I think that's a really important part for this. That was what I wanted to talk about. I wanted to talk about with you guys first, because we're in this moment where Spider-Man, Brand New Day might become, it has a chance to become, an outside chance to become the biggest movie of all time. Yeah. It's probably going to come up a little bit short of that, but I would say it caught me by surprise that it could get that big. Yeah. And then the immediate after effect of that is a bunch of movies coming out in August and people are like, I'm good, no thanks. I've got Spider-Man. I'm not going to see anything else. I saw my one, I saw The Odyssey and I saw Spider-Man and I don't need to see any movies. Just you and me in one movie theater alone watching Dog Stars. Excuse me. I will also be there. Dog Stars is coming out this Friday. We'll see how it does. Feels good stuff in the theater. We almost went to the movies last night and there was like five movies at the Grove I wanted to see. And then what happened? It'll be on streaming in two weeks. I'll wait. Yeah. Flops still happen. Yeah. But I feel like when I was thinking about this idea, I was thinking more about the 90s. I was thinking more about Kevin Costner's face being plastered across Variety and the weekend after Waterworld came out. Something like that. I don't know. What do you think about it? Yeah. I'm in the Waterworld postman. Postman double feature of the mid 90s for him. You pronounced it Postman? I did. I don't know why. Like Phil Spider-Man? Yeah. I think, you know, there's obviously like. I think maybe you're doing like Italian El Postino. El Postman. Yeah. Obviously like Heaven's Gate and Ishtar are historic box office catastrophes that sunk careers and studios. But Waterworld was the one, I think, for the premier magazine generation that people for two years have been reading about like, wow, he's going to try. He's going to go for it. He's going to do it. It sounds like there are problems. It sounds like there are bigger problems. And then it never made a dollar or whatever. I mean, in truth, Waterworld, I think, actually was financially OK. It did OK. It did OK. But it was never close to what they imagined and also is a critically reviled turkey. I think that speaks to what Bill was saying, which is like we got to have some honor because Waterworld, I think, is still understood as a flop. Yes. It maybe wasn't as bad a financial loss as some other movies that we'll talk about, but it didn't do well enough. I don't know. How do you think about it? You think about it critically, too? A little bit, because I was trying to think of you put in the outline, the prompt of what's the first flop that you remember. And I think some of it can be the Waterworld that's covered in the trade for so long or now, especially since we follow the business so closely, you know, weeks in advance, like, oh, no one's going to go see that movie. Like, oh, you know, whatever Julia Roberts was doing from 2010 to 2024 is just like D.O. With love and respect to one of my favorite movie stars. But I do also remember the feeling of going to the movie theaters and I had been sold a bill of goods. And then I was like, oh, this is just not good. I don't know why I'm here right now. And that is more of the critical flop. And also just kind of when the system is breaking and the audience has become aware and are just like, oh, you guys didn't have this at all. And we all pretended like this was going to be a real movie. Snyder versus DC. This is not a movie. I wish you luck. Oh, man. This is the rest of my life. Yes. Yes. What about for you? Do you remember the first time you. Probably Heaven's Gate. I didn't go see it, but it was the first time I remember hearing dialogue about a flop. But because I don't remember New York, New York and some of the other ones from the 70s that people were disappointed by. But Heaven's Gate, it felt like that became like a national news story. I don't know. People read newspapers back then. It was like bankrupted a studio, became a book. But the first one. I remember that I had real opinions on was probably Howard the Duck. Because they put a lot of money behind it. I had a crush on Leah Thompson for her. Bought some season tickets for her. And it was just really bad and kind of inexplicable. And then it came on cable and it was like, wow, what happened? But that was the first time I remember the concept of it. And then the 90s is when it really took root. I think Waterworld was like kind of the apex mountain of flop conversation. I would say. Yeah. I think those are three like pretty historic examples. Because Howard the Duck produced by George Lucas. Like there was this expectation that it was going to be like an event movie and like maybe even a franchise. Yeah. Heaven's Gate obviously cited as like the end of the new Hollywood basically. The movie that kind of killed that glorious period in the 70s. Waterworld, I feel like is about hubris, you know, and like not sometimes there's these movies where like a director or a star is like, I can do anything. Sure. There's like nothing that. Sometimes there's. It's a Kevin Costner movie. Or multiple. But sometimes that works out because Titanic was considered to be going to be a flop and it wasn't. There's been a lot of we thought this was going to not work out, but then it did. Right. It's also always fascinating to see what augers or is the like the canary in the coal mine for a flop. Like for Heaven's Gate, infamously, it was this Vincent Canby review where he reviewed like not an early version of it or was it an early version? I'm not sure. He was one of the first guys out to review Heaven's Gate. And it was so negative that it almost started this snowball effect of other critics being like, no, I think it's a bigger piece of shit. It's even more of an abomination. Sometimes it can be you see an ad for a movie and you're just like, oh, they didn't get it. They did like there's something wrong with this ad, like this trailer or this ad campaign that you can just feel if you're watching a football game with other people. They're like, what is this fucking thing? And you can tell like there's just no juice for the movie. So I always find it fascinating to kind of feel like what's the first moment? You knew this wasn't going to work for a movie and how rare it is the movie can like turn out of that. We were just having a conversation about reshoots and how a lot of movies now do reshoots. And back in the day, if you heard about reshoots, you were like, oh, this is huge trouble. Now it's like a little bit more commonly expected, but it's still an indicator in the news. Cliff Booth being. Yes. Well, Cliff Booth, Social Reckoning. They both had really late period. And Long Shoots, too, is another one. My dad, who I learned a lot from movies about and especially rewatching the same movie. Over and over again, which was a big thing for him with Clint Eastwood and some others. Did that come up in your career later? Rewatching movies? Yeah. Later. Yeah. His big thing was that the Globe, the Boston Globe, didn't review it. He's like, bad sign. There's no review today. That means it probably like he sniffed that out early. And would that incentivize him to seek out the movie? No. It was more like the Globe didn't review it. That means he was smart enough to be like, that probably means they didn't screen it. If they didn't screen it, that probably means it's not good. The version of that that was at my house was with my dad reviewing movies. It would be they're hiding it from us. But that was what they did. They would kill his deadline. So like if it would be like Thursday, they'd be like, you can see Leprechaun 2 now. He'd be like, I'm not reviewing this because it gives me, because I'm trying to go to the bar. Did Desmond review Leprechaun 2? He did. He hated it. Did he see Leprechaun 1? I think so. Generally, he found it offensive. Oh, the Irish popped out. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The English one. Quiet for a second. But yeah, like he would talk about, oh, they're hiding this movie from us, which you've discussed before as well. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't happen as much. I think they do it now. Well, they just don't do it. It's really hard because what they try to do now is they try to pit the fans against the critics. So they'll have like fan screenings or influencer-led screenings, but then they won't show it to critics until the last minute. So it's this kind of, it's like a miasma. Like they're trying to trick you into thinking like, well, people who really understand this material will really like it. You know, whereas like these haughty critics or, you know. These journalists, they don't understand what you really like, which is all like a lie. Like they know when a movie isn't it. Like we went to Masters of the Universe. I went with Van and Mahoney was there too. And we were talking afterwards about how we were like way outnumbered at that screening. Like it was a lot of like He-Man guys, you know, guys who were really excited about that world and not people who were there to review the movie or talk about it on pods. The PR tour is another sign. If the stars aren't promoting the movie at all. Oh, sure. Red flag, right? There's an inverse of that, though, which is sometimes. Because people know the movie is a dog, they'll do too much press. So like sometimes when you see people being booked on things that they wouldn't normally do, it's because they're really nervous that the movie is not going to perform. So there's like all of this tea leaf reading. Like Charlize is on Hot Ones, just fucking throwing up chicken wings. Sometimes. Because she's in a bomb. Sometimes. Sometimes you'll be like, why is McConaughey on 74 pods? And it's like, oh, because this like random indie, not random, but this indie movie that's only in like 40 theaters is out. But like he's doing it. doing like diarrhea. ceo there's another one where there's like a shit detector test with some of these like runner runner is a good example where there was like good people in that movie and yet there was no buzz at all koppelman and levine were suspiciously quiet about it i was like there's just nobody's kind of talking about this one yeah yeah and then it just kind of came and went there was a reason for it so you made a distinction earlier in the podcast like when we first started about like so you just dazed and confused as an example but one of the phenomenons i think of and maybe one of the ring like the loopholes of this 90s stuff is that there was a home video market where movies could have pretty active second lives reservoir dogs yeah so dogs is an example i don't want to name too many because they may come up or they may not but but we can't have reservoir dogs in this no see that's to me that's that those movies should not be eligible because that's like an independently made modestly budgeted movie that played festivals that was never intended to be a big blockbuster it's good to look at the like reported budget of these movies and it's like well yeah maybe this movie lost five million dollars but did anybody really think it was going to make 75 million dollars or 100 million dollars back then sometimes yes sometimes yeah i think it's an expectation game mostly right like what do we think a movie should do based on the stars based on the filmmaker based on the premise versus hey here's a cool small movie that those movies are not pure flashback lops i don't know about you guys i'm just happy to play a game with people who aren't too particular about rules and competitive nature so it's just cool yeah i feel like i'm gonna storm out like three o'clock there was a tremendous amount of conversation and uh and should we talk about this and then this morning a dramatic reveal that was tough i really had a hard time all weekend with this i was like this is the fucking hardest movie draft i've ever been these are usually pretty easy but it turned out i'd i'd mix the show now this i'd confuse the text with another text this is this is a challenging premise because there's a lot of specifics for what defines a flop but you doubled your work you thought that all of the traditional categories that we usually do that you lasted when you were on the show were also going to be included in addition to these new categories i thought you were merging them together and all of a sudden i'm trying to figure out oscar nominees what happened what's going on at home i just just screwed up it's got a lot on its plate yeah turns out not a lot of oscar nominees were flops yeah yeah really hard to know it was like endless love yeah it was like oh i got nominated for best song i was at that you know that would have been a cool thing to do because there are a lot of like big ticket blockbuster movies that would get like a vfx nomination yeah i wasn't getting about chronicles of riddick i bet it did get like you think it got an oscar known possibly have you seen that oh yeah i had a lot of riddick stock for a minute riddick stock yeah i thought it was like a cool character rank the riddick riddick bow lewis riddick riddick oh by far riddick from pitch black okay now you character lewis riddick last um okay you should i explain the categories yeah so they're not as bill thought drama comedy wild card oscar etc here here's what we're doing after some debate and i appreciate the debate about what we should do here one is less than 30 million dollars domestic wide release now with the caveat that indies and small movies are not qualifying here we're talking about studio movies movies that were expected to make a lot of money number two star bomb this is a movie star vehicle from a well-known person who probably overstepped a little bit so this will have the most negotiation with the pics okay okay i think it had we it has to be agreed on that this movie ultimately was considered to be bad for the star oh when it came out i didn't take it to mean that yeah i just thought it didn't do well but but it even if it did okay movies but waterworld did okay like it made the money back in that sense yes i understand what you're saying i mean yes but that still was bad around his neck yeah i think if there's some sort of collateral damage to the star you know i agree then that's it okay the next category is the 100 million dollar losers club adjusted for inflation adjusted for inflation that was a key ad because there were not a lot of a hundred dollars we could be drafting movies from the 90s that did a for inflation lose 100 million dollars the next category is ebert zero stars this was amazing yeah i never read this full list i can't wait quite something there is a list of films that roger ebert gave zero stars and it actually what's most interesting to me about the list is what isn't on the list yeah you know like you see there's some obvious stuff there's some surprising stuff we'll talk about it we'll be able to get some actually good movies i think out of this category next category is sub 25 on rotten tomatoes another really fun list the final category with rotten tomatoes the final category with rotten tomatoes is when you get to the end of the movie and you get to the end of the movie and you get to the end of the movie and you get to the end of the movie are there any films that are sub 25 with fans they're usually so much more forgiving because fans are stupid is that what you're saying i didn't say that i said they're forgiving the popcorn meter or whatever yeah is that what do you look at first when you pop yeah always yeah yeah i'm a populist yeah you are cr um people the last category is failed franchise launch so this is a movie that was there was hopes of it being a multi-part you know saga of some kind and the franchise there's gonna be some huge fights on this cat down that category to me this is a more modern phenomenon this is a much more most recent 20 25 years than it is going back to the 80s or 90s but there are some examples in the 80s and 90s for sure and i would say most of this conversation will be about the 80s 90s and 2000s because we didn't really think of movies in quite the same way in terms of box office and critical revulsion as we do now i would say a couple of these have they're open to interpretation and i look forward to a healthy debate while we make our picks and i'll just say that i'm gonna lead with love and that i think it's a that's beautiful i think that we're gonna we're gonna make some allowances for for longtime friends here you think that's gonna happen or i hope i hope how do you feel i'm re-evaluating how i defined i'm back in the saddle yeah i'm thrilled to to be back with my guys um including bill um i am in and i've had a great got lost in space that's true we talked a lot about sports he's very supportive to me yeah so it's lovely she did her kathleen quinlan impersonation which i know you guys have both seen help me back on monday friday um i so we just redefined starbomb in a way where i feel like i'm gonna have to do a lot of googling right now so that's where my headspace you're distracted i can see you kind of slipped out yeah i did but that was just kind of like oh no i didn't think about this right and that's okay i'll get there can i ask about the goal for the next season for the draft yes are these movies that you like or are you are they flopped i'm treating this or are they you actually like the best collection of movies to you that you can while also abiding by the criteria so i like that definition and i won't try to disabuse you of it but i also think if you have a slate that is the floppiest of flop slate slates that's also kind of interesting to me like if you want that to be your goal and then you can make a case for those movies as interesting acts of movie history sure i might just take all politically incorrect flops okay that's might be my strategy there's a few few great ones in here yeah starting with your hat okay we have a draft order that was recorded by jack sanders before he went on vacation howard here he is oh wow producer jack here to deliver the draft order for the first ever flops movie draft very excited to give somebody the first overall pick for babylon selecting first wow sean fennessey oh there you go that's big go figure i already know bill is gonna claim this is rigged yeah yeah there we go is selecting second good instinct okay not helping amanda dobbins okay shocker i promise i don't rig these things i don't really even see how valuable that would be for me selecting third it's chris bill simmons which means chris ryan will be drafting fourth happy drafting now is there an undisputed number one overall draft pick here you think no i don't think so i don't think so and i think that we're probably not even targeting most of the same movies probably not and yet i think there will be more arguing about the rules than about movies yeah this was tricky this involved you like a lot of actual box office research also i just say to you once again what have they done to all the box office websites um and then i am redefining in my head what many of these categories mean and also what my goals are because if you're just gonna shoot the moon and do the worst movies or am i i guess we don't know we'll find out after i pick so you're the tone setter here yeah okay i i know what i want to pick and i'm i'm i'm going ebert zero stars first and i'm going with one of my favorite reviews of all time and i'm selecting freddie got fingered tom green's star vehicle which is a movie i saw in theaters and absolutely loved thought was hysterical number one i thought i mean here we are i thought this movie was so stupid and so wonderful and i'd like to read you a brief passage from ebert's review to commemorate this first overall pick yeah this movie doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel this movie isn't the bottom of the barrel this movie isn't below the bottom of the barrel This movie doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels. That's how he felt about this movie. He fucking hated it. And he rejected the premise that it was a surreal masterpiece. You know, which was, it was immediately reclaimed as some brilliant revisionist idea. A.O. Scott wrote about this, that there was something singular about Tom Green's vision in this movie. I'm not sure if I even need to present it as just, I think it's really funny when he's. How many times have you watched it over the course of your life? I mean, it was on HBO a lot after it came out. So, 15? I mean, many times. And I've always had a really good time with it. And it basically killed his career. There was a social media clip of Tom Green getting. Somebody came on his talk show on MTV and tried to set the desk on fire. And he got mad at the person and it was super awkward. And the tweet was, this is what changed the course of Tom Green's career. We need to have a sense of humor about this. I was good the entire time being against Tom Green. Wow. And never thinking he was going to have a career. You were anti. I never got it. I never. I never understood it. I thought he was funny in Road Trip. That was the one time I thought he was kind of humorous. He wasn't really my bag. Just didn't get it. You guys are just a little too old. He married very more, right? He did. He did. I logged on for that part of the Tom Green experience. But otherwise, I was just. They were married when this happened. Oh, okay. That was one of the all-time, this one's not going to last marriages, I can remember, between two celebrities. The over-under was a year. But I would say Tom Green's appeal to me in that moment was just. Not a full circle with Drew Barrymore. And then once he was gone. Have you seen Freddy Got Fingered? No. He sings a song called Daddy, Would You Like Some Sausage? Okay. While playing a keyboard that is attached to sausages that are strung throughout his home. And he sings it to Rip Torn, legendary actor. Okay. It's a very special movie. When is it going to be on the rewatch? Rip Torn has had a lot of things that he's done in his career that he probably hopes there are copies of. Or that he's like, I don't have any memory of making. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't really there. Okay. That's the first overall pick. Interesting first pick. Thank you. I think it would have been available a couple rounds later. Yeah. I'm trying to have fun. But it was a tone setter. Sure. I'm trying to have fun here. So now I feel like I should be having more fun. And I guess I'll have a medium amount of fun. So I figured out, star flop, where I want to go with this. Which is having fun, being true to the category, and also incredibly eligible. And maybe, probably not taking away from anyone else. How do you know? No question mark. Wow. From Reese. Witherspoon. Yeah. Killed a few careers. So you're taking that for Starbomb and not $100 million loser? I am. Okay. Yeah. I mean, were you going to take it for $100 million user? No, I just thought it was eligible for both. It's eligible in many categories. Yeah. But I do think that. I mean, this killed. Not killed, but certainly put a pause on and re-trajectoried Reese Witherspoon's career. James L. Brooks. Tough. Romantic comedy, as you can argue, died in this moment. And in fact. No, the great Amy Nicholson piece, I think it was 2014, about who killed the romantic comedy. How do you know is located as kind of like the great, just things not working out despite so much money, so much talent, so much history? I can't say that I enjoy watching this movie, but there is something about. I like everyone involved, and I'm amused that it happened. It is. It is. It is top-culturally significant. You left out Softball. Sure. Softball was a big part of this movie, and has, I don't think, ever been part of another movie. I think this was the one time and only. This movie ended a lot of things. Yeah. Okay. It's really bad. My wife really wanted to like it and just couldn't get there. What was the Jim Brooks, Nick Nolte movie? I'll Do Anything. I'll Do Anything, this one, the How Do You Know, No Question Mark, and Alan McKay. A couple of. Yeah. A triumvirate of. Triumvirate of unsuccessful movies that are then dotted with incredibly successful movies around it. Crazy career. This is the last Jack Nicholson part. This is the last performance he ever gave in a movie. He's Paul Rudd's dad. It's 16 years ago. He hasn't been in a movie. A historic film in its own way. Good pick. It's most definitely a flop. Bill Simmons, you're up. I wore my Andoril hat because I knew we'd be dropping some bombs today. This first pick is not a bomb. Okay? But it is a Niebuhr zero-star review. I can't believe it's still available. Police Academy. Yeah. I genuinely like this movie. Me too. Saw it in the theater. Yeah. It led to like seven different sequels. And, you know, I get to say this on the rewatchable sometimes. Raj, fuck off. Zero stars was harsh. Police Academy's solid. The audience laughed. Tackleberry? Yeah. Had some funny moments. Leslie Easterbrook? He's funny in this movie. Yeah. Leslie Easterbrook, you say? Leslie Easterbrook. Talented lady. Important person of the 80s to a certain demo. Absolutely. She had some skills. Gutenberg, this really launched him to something. Were you pro-Goot? I was. I like Goot. He's funny in this. It was good. Goot had a nice run. Did that cross your path at all, Police Academy films? I don't think so. I think, but Gutenberg was one of the three men and a baby. And he was in his diner, yeah. So I was there for that. Michael Winslow doing weird voices. He's in this. Wild movie. Yeah. Ebert famously, real blind spot on sophomoric comedies. Yeah, no question. He didn't really get, he didn't get Chris Farley, he didn't get Sandler, he didn't get Police Academy. It wasn't his bag. We've done a couple where he just scathing reviews and it's usually raunchy, he hates. Unnecessary kind of veering on the sex side, but in ways that's not really. I don't know, good intentions, he really hates that. What does Raj like though? He likes story. Raj likes story and character. Story and character. Guess who didn't have either of those things, Police Academy. Do you have a favorite Police Academy movie? Citizens on Patrol. Is that number four? That's the one where it's like everybody can be a cop. Yeah, I think that's four. Oh yeah, of course I believe it. It's kind of like this prequel. So I'm going to take that. Okay. And then. That's the Raj. You don't have the turn. What do you mean there's no turn? No, it's Chris's turn. It's my turn. You don't have another turn. No, I don't have the turn. I don't have the turn. You're not on the turn. Damn it. Let's have. Wow, Citizens on Patrol had Leslie Easterbrook and Colleen Camp. Sheesh. Damn. And Sharon Stone. Oh my God. What the hell? Important franchise. What is Raj doing? Okay. For Star Misfire. Yeah. You're not going to. You said Star Flop. You're saying Misfire. The name of the category is Star Bomb. Okay. Star Bomb. I'll do Brad Pitt for The Assassination of Jesse James. Wow. Good choice. Which is one of my favorite movies of the century, but also a movie that made $4 million domestically. What happened? Well, I think Andrew Dominick is a very deliberate director, and it took a while to finish this film. And I think Brad Pitt is a hands-on producer and probably worked on it in his deliberate way. And then it turned out that America didn't want to watch a meditative. tone poem scored by Nick Cave about how Casey Affleck was an autistic guy who killed Jesse James. And that is basically what the movie's about. But the cast is dynamite. It's Pitt, Affleck, Jeremy Renner, Sam Rockwell, Zooey Deschanel, Mary Louise Parker. Yeah. Sam Shepard. Sam Shepard. You can always count on him. Mm-hmm. So this was. Mm-hmm. Brad Pitt almost immune. Yeah. He's almost immune to bombs, I would say, because he's got a few. Yeah. I don't know. I mean. We're going to find out this fall. "Heart of the Beast" time? Is that the. Is that the dog movie? "Heart of the. " Are you familiar with "Heart of the Beast"? I am. I've been following the Brad Pitt media coverage in 10 days. It's really. It's. He's off the wagon now. Yeah. It's tough. That's a real. It's good. It's going to be interesting. Interesting timing on that announcement. Yeah. Did he come forward to announce that? He did on a podcast, right? No. He did on a podcast. He did on a podcast. He did on a podcast. Yeah. He did on a podcast. Yeah. He did on a podcast. Yeah. He did on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did on a podcast. Yeah. He did on a podcast. Yeah. He did on a podcast. thing because don't they break up right after that movie yeah yeah okay so i wanted to break up after that brad pitt assassination jesse james for starbomb okay uh good choice no argument there here's where i wonder whether i'll get some pushback so by the letter of the law i would like to take under 30 million dollars box office mass release i would like to take shawshank redemption i i don't see the case i don't think it was characterized as a flop it did both of you leaned back in your chairs as if like you know like a double made 28.3 million dollars what was the budget that's typical eagles fan bullshit okay trying to search for an edge trying to search for an edge kind of this hush push of drafting i'm just following a push push pick the literal definition nobody at any point thought that movie was a disappointing or a bomb and then after got the oscar nomination it had a nice run much like many films in the 90s had a second life i'm not saying it didn't but in its initial release i'd i think it's a disgrace to put this in the flops draft its total theatrical gross after the oscar nominations was 73 million and it was budgeted at 25 million okay so it made three million dollars in its initial release though i'm interested in the decision vetoing that that we made to put sean and bill in matching black uh shirts on on opposite ends of the table yeah facing each other just ready to go that's that can't be i'm sorry okay we're gonna take that off sensitive one it's you know take it off the board and i will keep in mind what you guys just did so uh moving on for and when will you have your cheating is that a movie that uh i liked more in retrospect than i did maybe when i first saw it and i'm happy to take it due to the extent of its losses is furiosa mad max saga which lost 123 million dollars this is definitely eligible and uh pretty much put a bullet in the mad max saga and i'm happy to take it due to the extent of its losses is furiosa mad franchise i would say for the time being and given george miller's i remember when this came out two summers ago right 20 may 24 yeah missed it anya taylor joy and chris hemsworth um no tom hardy in this one obviously um and george miller like still had it still had some incredible tricks in the bag but people were i think a little bit more sensitive about what they perceived as some cgi stuff i think ultimately the film did didn't scratch whatever itch people had in terms of it like a quintessential like mad max revenge story it wasn't quite that yeah we talked a lot about its underperformance when it came out and you and i liked it but didn't love it and i think it it was in that weird zone where it was like nine years after fury road which was both too short and too long a time like if it had been three years later you might have been like well fury road is this incredible achievement we need to feed the audience more quickly or like fury road waiting 30 years later to see if it's going to be a good movie or if it's going to be a good movie or if it's going to be a good movie or if it's going to be a good movie or if it's going to be a good movie or if it's going to tell to reach that story again but it kind of felt like just a general audience but then they recast the entire cast yeah so you it's long enough that it's not long enough that you have forgotten the cast and can imagine like just like a new world um but you don't bring any warmth of the previous thing it's it was strange i didn't i didn't really understand the sequences in this and i actually like the ending quite a bit i know this is uh hotly debated but i thought the last you see this movie no not a mad max guy once we get into three and fourth third and fourth installments of a movie you got to really convince me yeah yeah um is cruising on the board here for flaps i think you could make the case it's a star bomb that was my case this was i think this was i think this was detrimental to chino's career legitimately bad for pachino sentiment and tailspin for the entire 1985 so 1985 only counted for a certain demographic of this okay all right okay you're you really wanted cruising but you didn't realize it was eligible i just i know with interest that bill is doing this but i can't have shawshank but he can have shawshank was never considered a bomb or i remember in the movie theater alone in florida and be like where are all the people cruising was like why did pacino do this he's getting protested for a year it sent him back in all these different ways i think it has a good star bond pick okay thank you uh is there anything else you want to say about cruising i mean i mean we did a rewatch it was the only only 4k blu-ray that i've spent over 20 dollars on it came out it was like 40 whatever the price was i was like i'm getting a wonderful edition from arrow yeah and thank you to them okay um how many great great movie how many do you own now when he's dancing okay okay uh cruising's an amazing movie i love that uh freaking hated his guts and shit on him after the research for it was great and uh and it's like yet it's like that last era of the gritty kind of gross new york movies that are basically from 1974 to 1980 where new york just seems like the most fun and dangerous place you could ever go in america yeah and it sends freaking kind of into a into history his flop era yeah you know where yeah because he's kind of coming off of sorcerer failing and come and then this movie being so controversial and not doing very well and then he has kind of a anonymous 80s some movies i like but not not a lot of big hits star bomb do directors count for starbucks i thought about it and i took it off i feel like that's a whole other pod yeah you know yeah i think so as well the director movie draft with the bombs in there creates create some categories great yeah don't steal don't steal that idea other tm sean doing coppola have two categories for all his bombs i think i mean we do a double coppola category um okay amanda you have a pick in films that lost more than 100 million dollars another one um yeah i will take uh your friend and your friend steven spielberg's west side story which lost 104 million dollars come on i'm it's there 104 million dollars wasn't on my research before being adjusted for inflation coming out of coppola yes deep coming out of coppola this is a beautiful remake and a beautiful movie sean loved it of a movie that i was like i think number three on my list for the year i was totally blown away by it and that's as someone who also thinks the original west side story film is like one of the great movies ever made so i just don't understand what happened here besides covid and i guess people not caring about west side story um if that movie came out right now i wonder if it does well i think uh it would probably benefit that movie to have like a stronger lead actor it was ansel elgort yeah bigger name and then it was also and rachel zegler who is amazing and kind of the discovery of rachel zegler but then she's fantastic yeah yeah um mike feist but if tom holland starred in west side story what would happen be a much bigger movie yeah with a much shorter start can he sing he's gonna try with this fred astaire movie yeah i guess so that's true like well but we know he can't swing his sword yeah he's gonna try with this fred astaire movie yeah i guess so that's true like well but we know he can't swing his sword okay web slinging is very good he wasn't allowed he had to honor zeus's law yeah okay get the spears get the swords it's my those are my favorite patents and line readings in that movie he was great really funny so good such a great patents and run right now it's it's electric and still going still going prime time i'm all in june really from good time on he's just had my soul it would be good when he walked in with the andrew hat to be like you see how this looks right did you ever watch to catch a predator the show or the movie the show pattinson's in the movie yeah have you ever watched but did you watch that show i made me feel bad yeah sure i think that's the content that just makes me like kind of question everything that's right i agree yeah but i did say not like drone bombing yeah i did see a couple episodes i love content that makes me question everything well it's social media now where they just confront people at like 7-eleven so i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't they're meeting and then they just punch the guy in the face oh yeah okay where were you out on bum fights i didn't care for them now i thought that was morally reprehensible yeah okay what about you but backyard wrestling okay oh interesting yeah sure well who was the kimbo slice yeah were you interested in his work i i enjoyed some of the early clips of him knocking people out yeah like that were you into that i really enjoyed it yeah enjoyed his whole career he was he was an entertaining character did you did you no again i was just that was not your algo yeah no that's fine kimbo slice was an extremely jacked black guy who was well known for going into backyards and beating the shit out of people um like unannounced like as part of backyard it was basically the clint eastwood philo beto movie okay every which way you can yep okay um where he would just go challenge people and they'd just fight in like a street or and he would just knock them the fuck out it was really yeah it was quite a time it was really early internet okay all right i have a pick huh so i've been trying to have two i have two picks yeah i've been thinking about this really in the spirit of the thing which is like actually bombed and reviled movies that i like that's kind of what i'm trying to do here so for sub 25 on rotten tomatoes i'm going congo which is one of my favorite movies um frank marshall directed adaptation of a michael crichton novel right in the absolute peak of michael crichton mania after jurassic park um this is a movie that i've been thinking about for a long time and i've been thinking the story. about a large corporation that sends a team into Africa to retrieve what they think is going to be some learnings about an ancient guerrilla civilization, but is actually on a mission to get very valuable diamonds. On this mission, Laura Linney is heading up the team. She is the daughter of a very powerful leader played by Joe Don Baker. Her husband or boyfriend is played by Bruce Campbell. He's clearly been beaten to death by these evil guerrillas. Mm-hmm. The weak part of the cast is Dylan Walsh. He plays an ape expert who joins this team along with his, I guess, compatriot Amy, who is a guerrilla. And Amy is there to bridge the gap between the guerrilla civilizations and to help us learn more about how to communicate with guerrillas. You can kind of see where this is going. Delroy Lindo plays a very powerful military figure in Africa. Tim Curry plays an expert in ancient civilizations. He's a crazy must, like a goatee in this, right? He does. His name is Herkimer Hamoka. Probably one of the funniest movies ever made. I will watch the entire thing every time I turn it on. I would kill to do a rewatch about this movie. I think it is one of the most fun movies ever made. And it was honestly a loss of innocence when I found out that this movie got terrible reviews. Like, this is a turning point in my life when I went to Newsday the day after seeing the movie opening night. And I saw, it must probably was John Anderson who was just like, this is despicable tripe and should be deleted from society. And I was like, what? This great film? How could anyone say this about Congo? And to this day, I represent Congo. So that's my pick. Laura Linney. Okay. I'm a fan. Yeah, you have another one. I got another one. Failed franchise launch. I'm taking Guy Ritchie's The Man From Uncle. Good one. Pretty good one. Which was intended it is an adaptation of a TV show, of course, and was intended to be this new kind of multi-part star vehicle about these dashing men getting embroiled in crimes and solving crimes. The only good usage of Henry Cavill, in my opinion. Someone who's, I feel like Hollywood has completely misunderstood. I was trying to think, it's always the example that I give when Henry Cavill can do more and it is The Man From Uncle. So now I'm trying to think of a second one. He's quite good in Mission Impossible, isn't he? Yeah, I guess. He was good in that one. He is good. But that's sort of counter-programming where you're like, this is Superman so we're going to make him a villain, which is an easy move. But, you know, Armie Hammer's one of the stars of this movie, which is one of the reasons why this movie never comes up anymore, but it also features Alicia Vikander, Elizabeth Debicki, Hugh Grant, great cast. Maybe the last truly great Guy Ritchie movie? I have time for a lot of them, but this was a movie that was intended to be a big hit and it just was okay. Truly great. I would say. You still keep in touch with Armie Hammer, sir? Who. Do you. Who runs the Cannibal subreddit? What's that text thread? It's probably quiet lately. Yeah. Yeah. It's moved to WhatsApp. Did you ever meet him? I've never met Armie Hammer. Have you ever interviewed him? No. Never met him. No? Don't know the man. Tall. Heard he's like 6'5". Did you meet him? No, I just always heard he was tall. Like a tall actor. It's like a completed anomaly. He is in a movie right now that we did not see a review on this show called Citizen Vigilante. But he has disavowed that film. Yeah. Uwe Boll is the director of that movie. Yeah, he said that that's not what Uwe Boll told him it was going to be. Which is amazing that you could make a film and then be like, Oh my God. He's back from the Bahamas. That's where he was for a while. Or Cayman Islands. Cayman Islands, yeah. Yeah, he was like selling condos, right? I want you guys to know something. I will definitely see Citizen Vigilante. I'm not paying for it, but when it's free on a cable channel, I will absolutely 100% watch it. He wants a review later. Tell me. I'm definitely going to watch it. I love Vigilante movies. It's me again? Yes, it's you again. Okay, well, I'm going to put this one to the group and I think it should be eligible. I'm not doing fraud here because it was considered a major disappointment. Or not a major disappointment, but a disappointment. They had bigger goals for it. Didn't know it was a disappointment draft. Well, we'll see. We'll be the deciders. So just to remind you, I was not sitting at the end of the table. You were broke. You were broke. I'm saying no to Shawshank Redemption. You were broke. If you're going to turn on all of us, this is going to get real lonely for you really fast. I'm not. Okay. This is my favorite James Gray movie and a movie I love, The Lost City of Z, which was launched by Amazon Studios when Amazon was like, we're going to make a lot of big movies and it's a $40 million budget. I'm okay with this. It made $8 million. This is a wonderful movie. It also stars Charlie Hunnam. Okay, wow. He's just sitting over here with the little the line emoji I think it's great. Oh, sorry. You don't like Lost City of Z now? I love Lost City of Z. Why don't you want the editorial shot? Her best performance, what could it have been if people would give her the kind of roles that James Gray did? I love it. Robert Pattinson, also in the mix. Charlie Hunnam. Yeah, and I think Tom Holland, right? Yes, it is Tom Holland. doing decent work? Yeah, he's good. I mean, he's young. Yeah, he's kind of a prep for The Odyssey. This is a beautiful movie. It's an amazing film. I love this movie. Okay, thank you so much. I do also remember, seeing it alone at the Los Feliz 3. $28 million. Okay, so yeah, you're just showing him box office mojo for Shawshank Redemption. Oh, for Shawshank Redemption? I'm narrating what's happening to the people who are listening at home. $28 million domestically. And Chris is looking at the numbers. Yeah. But that's under 30. It is under 30, but it's like just barely and it's not a huge movie. Okay, so you should in the future, but it's in the future. Don't say under 30, say like way under 30. Well, what I said in the introduction was that the movie that these were meant to be big studio tentpole movies. That's not what the Shawshank Redemption is. It's an adaptation of a short story. I didn't draft it under a franchise thing. I drafted it for the $30 million thing. Yes, I know. Okay. I explained to you what the expectations were. Did I not explain what the expectations were? It actually, Worldwide made more than $28. It did, yes. It made $70. But we weren't doing Worldwide. We were doing Worldwide, The Last City of Z made $19 million. It only made $8 in the US. It made more in France because they love, they respect James Gray more. $28 million in 1994. That's pretty good. So how often when you're in a fight at home do you say, just in the future? Because I just, I like, I just transported into your living room and you tried to end it with soap. It is actually a staple. This is so vivid. And I know Just in the future. I just feel like it never goes well. I just go, no big deal, but in the future. No big deal. Just know that this is what you're like. I have a half a feeding just felt my entire body like wake up and get ready to absolutely demolish you. Yeah. Okay. You okay? Yeah, I'm doing great in there. So that's Lost City of Z in less than $30 million. It's domestic. Wide release. $100 million loser adjusted. Somehow Ali is eligible for this. It is eligible. And I'm going to take it because I love Ali and we just did it on Rewatchables and it's a really good movie. Is it good? Are we sure that it's good? I think it has a couple of the best stretches which makes it a Rewatchable. Over 15 minutes? Yeah. I agree. It really kind of goes off a cliff at a certain point. It never actually goes off a cliff. And then it comes back. It's just not as entertaining as I think you want it to be. It becomes narcolepsy. Yeah. Just a little dull in the second half for a Michael Mann movie. Yeah. And for a Muhammad Ali movie. I think he got overwhelmed by trying to figure out how to tell Muhammad Ali's entire story. He should have Tony'd it. He should have just like picked one thing. Yeah. That would have been a good idea. Did you see Tony yet? No. Somehow that didn't work out for me. Oh. It's a good story. I'll tell you sometime about it. This is a tough the hundred million do it. Six dollar loser category is rough. I did not like a lot of the choices. So I want to grab Ali. It's challenging. I think what it requires for the most part is a reclamation. A saying like I actually really like this movie. It is interesting that this movie did not do well. Yeah. I don't know if it necessarily should be considered a flop. But it definitely lost more than a hundred million dollars. So I guess that's something. Not the only Michael Mann movie to say that by the way. No. There's a couple of Michael Mann's out here. Probably coming. Why don't we take one right now? Okay. Go ahead. Oh, it's your turn? Yeah. So for the aforementioned thirty million dollar category thirty million dollar domestic wide release I'll take Black Hat. There you go. I think Bill and I contributed most of its domestic box office personally. We even saw it together. Since sustained its home video and physical media releases. Also thank you Arrow. But I still This has been a hundred million too? Did this was a hundred million adjusted or not? They didn't have an exact figure for this one, but it was anywhere between like ninety two and a hundred and fifty million dollars. He just start shooting in China at one point. Yeah. Yeah. He just gave zero fucks. But then there's also that weird moment where when we watched in the theater, there was still a Getty Images watermark on one of the shots of the nuclear reactor. So it's like on one hand, he's like blowing all this money on the other. And he forgot to pay the Getty license anyway. Have you seen Black Hat? No, but I have listened to the rewatchables Black Hat episode in full. At least once and maybe twice, because that's like that's when you guys are really cooking, you know. You have to see it five times to understand what happened. And once you see it the fifth time, it all clicks. You know how like when you when you hear old baseball announcers like if you ever hear like a tape of Vince Scully or somebody and they're just like beautifully describing the action. That's what I did with the Black Hat director's cut before it was ever available. I did it based on memory from FX broadcasting it once. Hmm. And so I told yourself this is what the DC is. Yes, OK, OK, OK. It also has a hilarious Chris Hemsworth performance that ties into the rewatch ability of the movie. He tries to do a Was it a Chicago accent or a Brooklyn accent? Yeah, he's trying to do the Neil McCauley accent. He's just trying to be. And nobody said, dude, just be Australian. Yeah. But he's just really committed to talking like this. Like Seagal. Time is luck. Could you give me a one-sentence description of what happens in the film? Oh, man. Oh, a hacker brings down a nuclear plant, and then the only person who's good enough to catch him is another hacker. Yeah. And the other hacker is Chris Hemsworth. Why does he take down the nuclear plant? To hold the world hostage. Mm-hmm. But isn't it something about money, about betting against that? You said it in one sentence. Is he shorting it? Yeah. Yes. Sean. Okay. To catch a hacker, you have to be a hacker. Yeah. Yeah. That's the premise. You said one sentence. I don't think you got it in totality. Do you want me to get into the Chicago mercantile market? Yeah. Yeah, but that's not a sentence. Well, it's just going to be a long sentence. Sure, add some clauses. Black hat's elite. Good choice, Chris. That's cute. No, it's a great pick. Thanks. It's not a great movie, but it's a great pick. It definitely fits the bomb flop category, too, because I don't think anyone ever gave Michael Mann that amount of money again to make a movie. Yes, they did. Which one? They gave him $95 million to make Ferrari. That's how much Ferrari costs? And that's where I thought he might go. And so we've got Ali and Ferrari and Black Hat on the ledger, and still. And I don't think Public Enemy's made a lot of money, right? It did better. Okay. It did better. Sean, did you think about having an entire category for Adam Driver movies or no? Well, we'll see. No, he's going to be an X-Men villain, so I think everything's going to be all right on Adam Driver Island. Are you anti-Adam Driver? I'm a results guy, Amanda. Okay. I'm learning that. Every once in a while, you've got to have a hit. You've got to have a winning season. The choices on paper have made sense, and also he was Kylo Ren in the Star Wars movies. Have you seen the new Star Wars movies? What was the dinosaur movie he was in? 65. 65. I didn't hate it. It's fine. Yeah, it was fine. It's fine. You didn't see that. 65? Yeah. No, it isn't. And 65 refers to? 65 million years ago. B, C, yeah. Where are you on? But is it? I believe so. No, I know, but I wasn't dancing there at the ending. It doesn't set up. Let's not spoil 65 for the millions and millions listening at home who've never seen it. Where are you on girls right now? The renaissance is trying to happen. Yeah. It's trying. It's trying. Yeah. It's been interesting with my daughter's generation. It's not 100% caught on. Okay. Driver and Chris Abbott. Driver and Chris Abbott were cast in the X-Men movies. Yeah, I saw that. So for girls fans, something is happening. I feel like it's still like two years too soon. I think like 2029, I think it really. Okay. We're not enough nostalgia-y away from it. I mean, that'll be 20 years. Yeah. 2012 it starts? No. I think, yeah. Around then. You need about 15 years. Is Girls on Netflix yet? Or did it ever have a Netflix run? So that's when it will probably take off. When they license it. Because Sex and the City had a whole revival when Netflix ran it. Yeah. All right, Sierra. I think you have another pick. I do. And for a failed franchise, I'm going to take Master and Commander, which was supposed to launch the Patrick O'Brien Jack Aubrey franchise. And it's just like they all loved making it. Peter Weir did an incredible job. Everybody was hopeful that they were going to keep making these movies. Concepcion loves that movie. Yeah. I mean, it's one of my faves. So really too bad because these would have been fantastic and it still stands as like a terrifically entertaining blockbuster. I'm going to take another Ebert zero star off the board because I don't really like the selections. What a movie called The Hitcher. Yeah. I was surprised to see that this got zero stars. Rucker Hauer, Jennifer Jason Leigh. Wait, did you already take Police Academy? Oh, you did. Oh, yeah. You're double drafting it. Am I only allowed one? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I thought I had to draft a couple. No, it's one per category. Oh, then I'm not taking The Hitcher. Well, somebody might want it in the future. Would you like to hear anything from the review of The Hitcher that Ebert wrote? So this is a lot easier if we only have to do one. Yep. I thought we had to do like six. Wait, did you have a head injury? We don't draft 12 times. I was all excited. I was excited to really get into this. Here's what Raj had to say in his closing paragraph about The Hitcher. But on its own terms, this movie is diseased and corrupt. I would have admired it more if it had found the courage to acknowledge the real relationship it was portraying between Howell and Rutger. But no, it prefers to disguise itself as a violent thriller. And on that level, it is, to me, reprehensible. He's such a moral king. Yeah. It was very important to him. Unless it was like, this movie was entertaining. All right. So I'll do for failed franchise launches. Does Next Karate Kid count? Trying to do a female Karate Kid? I say no. I say no because it is essentially a sequel. Part of the sequel thing? Yeah. All right. Back to the drawing board. Okay. Oh, man. There's so many good Rotten Tomatoes. 25. And under. It's a smorgasbord. I'm going to take 8mm. Okay. Yes. First of all, outrageous that this is under 25 on Rotten Tomatoes. You people are all. What's the popcorn meter on this one? Absolutely outrageous. I am not affiliated with Rotten Tomatoes. You people. I am not on the tomato meter. These are people you sit with at screeners. They should all be ashamed. I'm trying not to. It's at 52%. So it's still the tipped over. It's not an upright bucket of popcorn. It's an upright bucket of popcorn when Bill watches it. That's exactly right. There's about 45 minutes of this movie that is like maybe the best 45 minutes of the 90s. As soon as Joaquin Phoenix shows up, this movie takes off. We should make Amanda watch this. I actually think you would like it. It's just like a. Did you say Joaquin Phoenix? I'm in. Yeah. Amanda. Yeah. You're going to see some things you can't unsee. Yeah. Yeah. It's an actual quote for me on the elevator. Okay. I believe that. So we have to go into the darkest part of the sex movie world. Yeah. I couldn't recommend this movie. I know. It's tough when you have to do that. More highly. The sex movie world. Yeah. Nick Cage. Right. It's starting to flip for him. He's just starting to get pretty weird. Machine played by Chris Bauer, an all time that guy with an all time performance. Gandolfini as scummy and horrible as he's ever been in a movie, which is saying something because he fights Patricia Arquette. And true romance might actually be worse than this movie. Stormer. And then Stormer. Our guy playing Dino Velvet. And then the guy from Silence of the Lambs, the doctor, the evil doctor. He's in this too. Okay. Yeah. And then sadly. He's a lawyer. Right. Catherine Keener just is on the phone for like five scenes. Yeah. She's like, honey, not going to be home for two more weeks. And she's just like holding a baby. It's one of those performances. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What's flawless? What's flawless? Flawless is like a dramedy about a gay man living next door to an old crank. And, like, they learn to love each other. Ah. Missed that one. Really? Yeah. I've never heard of this. Me neither. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Hoffman plays a drag queen and, like, De Niro is injured in some way and he has to help take care of him. Oh, is he, like, an ex-marine or something like that? Or, like, an ex-cop? He's like, "Oh, God damn it." That's Linus you're thinking of. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, God damn it." I'm like, "Oh, God damn it." the first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old the tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe these are the moments that make nordstrom nordstrom big or small we're here for all of it celebrating 125 years with new moments still add discover it all in nordstrom stores and at nordstrom.com do i have a pick yeah you have two gosh better look at this doc see where we're at salt was really strong that should have been a franchise so i need less than 30 million domestic star bomb and lost 100 million i think we should add a wild card category we can if you'd like okay right now no no just for 100 million losers club again this is cheating a little bit the way that amanda did with covid but i'm gonna do it anyway and i'm gonna pick the last duel speaking it's ridley scott no that's fair here on the big picture yeah uh this is a matt damon ben affleck jody comer vehicle about a violent sexual act told from three different perspectives in medieval times and is honestly a corker like a really really entertaining movie really well made um uh oh my gosh nicole hollis center wrote co-wrote the screenplay with with um affleck and damon and i thought it was like a pretty slick and smart movie and after i saw it i was like oh wow oscar time for the boys they're back this is great ridley's going back and then nobody fucking saw it and nobody cared about it it even got some reviews that were like this film is insensitive and i was like that's the exact opposite of what i was thinking about it and i was like it's the exact opposite of that this is one of the only thought-provoking versions of a story like this ever made so i'm a big fan of this that was 21 it was the same year i think it got pushed a little too because of covid and it's the same year's house of gucci which got absolutely pillory oh yeah critically and i feel like it kind of they kind of got lumped together and the last duel is obviously superior i loved it it was really bad i mean it's silly but last duel is a classic wrong time movie yeah if it comes out in 2011 i think it does really well i think if it comes out right now it does really well but it was like it was like the dead center of the me too era it's right after covid i just and it was like people didn't want to go see a movie like that it was attempting to address a lot of what was in the culture but it actually isn't what people want to go to the movies for no nobody's going to the theater for that but now i think maybe in imax i think they would have redone things differently and i think that movie could have been a big movie it's good it's a good movie we gotta get some of our brightest minds on by the way adam driver's in that movie yeah identifying how much money there you go ridley scott has lost the martian like on all of his projects because it's covenant which i love all the money in the world last duel house of gucci napoleon gladiator 2 and the upcoming dog stars so that is an incredible run of films regardless of how they did are all very expensive it's true all the money in the world is also really good i like that movie it's pretty good i think it's a good movie i think it's a good good it's pretty good for a movie that had to that's that surgically implant christopher plumber into it yeah a famous one of the most famous reshoots of all time yeah and he was like i can still make my date he chose to delete kevin spacey yes that was amazing when he did it in like 14 days and then they finished the movie in time i really respect that movie because the degree of difficulty had to have been like a 9.95 yeah to do it on time you were still on walberg island back then too though he could do no wrong where you out on walberg these days ben and i just watched the departed and he's so good in that i'm back in sure yeah it's like the best he's ever been you know why because he embraced that he's a fucking asshole from boston and he was like this is who i am and he fucking crushed it he's so good in it it's true dobbins you got another pick oh i do wait did you do two i only did one my bad okay so i've got less than 30 million domestic and starbomb in starbomb i'm just gonna go with an all-time classic i'm gonna do ishtar okay so great pick you know one of the most oft-cited i think misunderstood movie and a movie that i think was damaged by the pre-release press which is something that started to happen more and more in the early 1980s and of course warren beatty didn't make very many movies so anytime he made a movie there was a lot of scuttlebutt about it and interesting movie in that like beatty and dustin hoffman the two stars are kind of like sort of flip parts and they're playing kind of the inverse of each other right and big mistake you know it it maybe doesn't work as well as it could have features my my goat charles groden and one of his best performances he's the most hysterical in this movie he's the cia guy or something yeah elaine may very very very funny director and writer of the movie and it got a really bad reputation and got really bad press it didn't do like that bad at the box office it made like 20 something million but it was expected to be huge because it's this big international shoot traveling to to africa but i think it's pretty funny and i think the song and dance stuff between the two of them is pretty good so it's one of those things where like you come to it with the lowest of expectations when it's a flop and then you're like this is the movie that was the biggest problem in hollywood you know it's interesting about that movie you know i've talked about sometimes when people reach that stage of their career where they've been successful and then there's the undercurrent and people are just like ah fuck that guy and they're kind of waiting for to jump this movie had two people at the same time and fuck that guy kind of range right hoffman's coming off kramer versus kramer kind of a notorious prick behind the scenes people are waiting for him and then warren baity had just been super successful over and over again defied expectations so the the claws were out waiting for this to be a bad movie and it was expensive um there's been a lot of good stuff written about it yeah like the warren baity had the auto had the uh biography written about him there's like a huge chapter about him mad though like any any hollywood book book like no but there's been a lot of different was there a podcast i think there may have been a podcast about the making of ishtar that came out a few years ago but the chapter in star the peter biskin book about him about baity is really really good um the other thing is that it's um it basically killed elaine may's career as a movie director you know she was the one who really took the brunt because three years later baity bounces back with a move that we think is relatively modern but he's like he made a comic book movie he made dick tracy yeah to kind of reclaim his bankability and recover from this in a super smart way and dick tracy is great and really interesting in a lot of ways but and then both and then both which is the title was another one ishtar just sounds like it should be a bomb yeah because there's been other bombs like i love trouble was a bomb but i love trouble isn't as fun to say as ishtar but it's but they're both great pun like miss mishtar like that was a very easy joke to make sure movie just like i love trouble is like nobody loves i love trouble you know i was definitely aware that ishtar was a bomb when i was a kid it's pretty funny this was like the kramer versus kramer dad and the guy from heaven can wait or in a movie and nobody likes it and then it did become shorthand for this movie is just this is doomed exactly that's a good pick okay amanda you're up okay this is a personal pick uh this is meaningful to me so from ebert zero stars i will take north the 1994 rob reiner film that um at which i celebrated my 10th birthday this was my go to the movies with a group of people and we selected north i think because it was for children and also because the last uh rob reiner movie before that was a few good men which is one of the great movies of our time i it's not good i re-watched some of it yesterday and uh it's pretty embarrassing and culturally insensitive i will say that the bad guy aka the 10 year old kid his friend who's setting him up on this journey across the world makes some good points uh about old people and parents just you know not understanding and needing to get out of the way and let let kids do their own thing but i you know i was there i was i was 10 what else can i say i have a fun it's a great cast this is your congo yeah yeah that's it's not good but i had a nice birthday i think the casting mistake was was putting the two of them together from seinfeld as a couple yeah i just think that that was people were already like wait what's going on they're gonna be married in this that was bad and then the movie was bad yeah um it wasted a lot of good talent it's a notorious film for a variety of reasons i mean it's rob reiner streak coming to an end yeah the this is spinal tap the sure thing stand by me princess bride when harry met salary misery misery a few good men all in a row which you know obviously we celebrated him after he passed away and just that incredible series of movies and this is really the movie he he does bounce back with the american president right afterwards which is huge for you but um when cr streak can end what's gonna be his north what do you mean you keep talking about this like the sixers didn't get their fucking heads blown off in the playoffs by the new york knicks what streak is he on he traded for jalen brown sierra's on a streak manna knows you see him get shut down with shawshank we were like nope if this was really cr's year wouldn't you've gotten that over the line the reason why i'm like like people actually like me is because i'm like all right no no big deal that's probably like throw the microphone in the air walk out the other thing is that this is the meanest review ever written in the first paragraph of this review roger ebert writes north is one of the most unpleasant contrived artificial cloying experiences i've had at the movies to call it manipulative would be inaccurate it has an ambition to me to manipulate but it fails okay that's the first paragraph yeah and was read at the rob reiner roast as a way to roast rob reiner yeah one of the comedians went up and just read the review it's a pretty impressive uh deconstruction of why the movie doesn't work uh but also a very notable and important flop yeah it is also a little do you ever wonder like reading all these reviews he has pretty good reviews he's got a lot of good reviews he's got he had preferences for sure but like sometimes you're like what was going on with roger that day all the daily critics you know you're just like i get it i mean we've all been there right yes and but i know for a fact it would be like there's no parking you know i had to pee missed a major part of the movie came back you know. But also like you know other things have happened in life and you have 45 minutes to write this entire thing before you gotta go pick your kid up or whatever. I'm like dad let's go. Yeah exactly. But sometimes as you said with that Canby review it can have an amazing knockdown effect. Canby just had a bad day and he thought Heaven's Gate was too long and then all of a sudden everybody followed suit. What did my dad do to the Leprechaun franchise you know? Well I honestly think it's still going. I think there are like seven or eight installments of it. My next pick is for the less than 30. So many good choices for this. I was prepared to make six picks in this category as I continue to misunderstand the draft. It came down to a couple of these we've actually done on rewatchables but I'm gonna take Man Hunter. A movie that weirdly was considered kind of a bomb when it came out and kind of hurt William Peterson's career and then it sent Michael Mann a little bit of a tailspin. I think the studio thought it was going to do better and now 40 years later it's considered a masterpiece. So there you go. That's a recurring theme for my list. I guess movies that I like more than what the reception was. But there's some unbelievable candidates. At the end of this I'd like to, unless we do a wild card, there's some really good candidates for this one. There's movies that just didn't make money that you look at the numbers and you're like Jesus. Where do you stand on directors going into their older films like Michael Mann as been doing and James Cameron's been doing and tweaking it with the physical media? It's terrible. I agree. I'm trying to think if there's a good case for it. It's like Joe Mazzola was like I'm going to tweak the 2004 finals so Jason looks a little better in it. Don't you think that's what they're trying to do right now? Maybe. After we Trojan horse Jalen of the Sixers. No, I don't like it. I heard you're in on PG now. You feel like it's a good idea? I'm just getting there. Enjoy that. Getting there with Paul George. Here's where I would say I'm okay with tweaking a movie. He's the cat, right? That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Good stuff, though. Where's Paul George? Here's where I'm okay with a tweet. When we could do stuff like in the original Rocky when they do the wide shots and it's clearly there's 50 people because they couldn't afford extras. Right. But you're putting in CGI extras? Yes. No. Why not? Because the CGI crowd extras are the single worst technology thing that's happened to the movies. Whatever we need to do to make it darken it or however. It just looks like. One of the worst additions of that is in the Ridley Scott film Exodus, Gods and Kings, which I saw very memorably the morning after a Grantland holiday party and was supposed to meet Rembrandt Brown there to see it at the Arclight and Rembrandt did not show up. Wasn't that Prometheus that we went and saw? That was me and you and Andy saw Prometheus after a Grantland party and then two years later his next film was Exodus, Gods and Kings. And Rem stood you up? He stood me up, yeah. An hour and a half into the movie he texted me, sorry dog, I don't think I'm going to make it. Definitely sounds like Rembrandt. Yeah, I'm okay with tweaks as long as they're not actual tweaks. Like changing scenes, cutting scenes. I'm against that. What are your stance here? I don't like it, especially with films that mean a lot to me. I understand Cameron's drive to perfect certain special effects that he has there but when it gets to Fincher removing dust from people's glasses, lenses I just don't understand. Stallone did a Rocky IV re-edit as you know, Rocky IV is probably one of the 12 movies I've seen the most times. I refuse to watch it. But I think man took stuff like Ryan's out of Manhunter I believe is what people are saying. I'm up for, so what do I have left here? I think you have sub 25 percent Rotten Tomatoes and Ebert, zero stars. So you avoided the critical drubbings. Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do here is in Ebert, I'm going to take one of the harshest reviews I've ever read, which is for Wolf Creek. An early 2000s horror movie from Australia directed by Greg McLean and I recently showed this to a couple of teenagers who we usually watch horror movies together. Where'd you pick them up? Where'd they come from? Cruising the local mall? My friend! My friend's daughters, who we usually watch like Faces of Death. We've watched a bunch of horror movies. What's going on right now? My friend has like teenage daughters that when we go to Oregon we hang out with. And then we usually watch horror movies. We've watched Blair Witch. And then I was like, oh yeah, I think Wolf Creek would be really good. And we watched Wolf Creek and when Wolf Creek gets dark they were like, do you like this? Is this what you watch? And I'll tell you why. Here's Roger Ebert's review of Wolf Creek. I had a hard time watching Wolf Creek. It is a film with one clear purpose. To establish the commercial credentials of its director by showing his skill at depicting the brutal tracking, torture and mutilation of screaming young women when the killer severs the spine of one of his victims and calls her a head on a stick. I wanted to walk out of the theater and keep on walking. Look, when you take a lot of at-bats, sometimes you're going to strike out. You know? And that's what happened with me the time I showed Teenagers Wolf Creek. But it doesn't mean it's a bad movie. And part of what's going on in this review is Ebert's like this has 82% on the tomato meter and everybody who thinks it's good is like a sexual criminal. But, you know. And you joined their league. Did we all do zero star reviews for Ebert at this point? I think we did. Yeah. Yes. Because I thought it was notable he's done what, 76 total? Yeah. He gave zero star reviews to both versions of I Spit on Your Grave? Yes. Yes. He was just out. He didn't like the Saw type of movies. He didn't like the sexual depravity horror movies. That's right. All that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. He famously hated slashers. He really didn't like very many slashers at all. And especially slashers that were very gore-centric. And obviously Wolf Creek is very, very gnarly. The theaters are crowded right now with wonderful, thrilling, funny warm-hearted, dramatic, artistic, inspiring, entertaining movies. If anyone you know says this is the one they want to see, my advice is don't know that person anymore. Wow. Ebert. And that was what those teenagers said to you? Yeah. But they were like, let's watch this Japanese mental asylum movie. If Ebert had been a serial killer, it would have been the greatest cover-up, right? Look at all these things I wrote about. But meanwhile, he was cruising the Pacific Northwest. Did you see that there was a house that the alleged Zodiac killer used to stay at is for sale in L.A.? Where is it? It's pretty expensive. It's $1.5. Zodiac killer house for sale. Wow. Real estate corner. Where is this? I'll grab it. Okay. I'll grab it. I'll send it to you later. But anyway. The best one was that one near Dodger Stadium on the cliff that Danny Trejo died in heat. Oh my God. When that was for sale. Other than the Boogie Nights house, that was the one I probably stared at. That was like the longest I've read. Can you believe we don't work out of West Covina at this point? I mean, even I. Yeah. Oh, and I have sub-25% on Rotten Tomatoes. Don't do me like this, Neo. And it's hard to imagine fall. You know, because it's 96 degrees here in Los Angeles. It's so hot. It's hard to imagine Halloween almost being upon us. But when it is, one of my favorite traditions is to watch Friday the 13th Part 4, the final chapter. Did it turn out to be the final chapter? No. Why are you trying to make that sound like you're Mr. Rogers? What category is this? Sub-25%. One of my favorite traditions is to break out the old coffee mug. Listen, Sierra, I could do 20 minutes on this right now. The hospital? Friday the 13th, Part 4. Corey Feldman. Lawrence Monison, the kid from Last American Virgin. One of the worst performances of all time. Glover's in this. Crispin Glover's in this one. It's awesome. The last 25 minutes of this movie is actually legitimately good, in my opinion. I think the first 40 minutes of it in the hospital are incredible. It turns out, the ending, they kill Jason, but Corey Feldman, as a 10-year-old, kills Jason. He shaves his head to freak out Jason. And then, at the end, he's hugging his sister, and he kind of like. He has a crazy look. And you feel like the torch has passed to Corey Feldman. And then, in Part 5, they completely forgot about it. They just moved back to Jason. Wait, I thought we cut his head off. Do you like Final Chapter? Yeah, I do. I think I like 5 a little bit more, but 5, like, he does appear at the beginning of 5. New Blood, yeah. Feldman? Yeah, he's like. So, they don't totally erase the ending, but they just, like, elide what they were intending to do, which is actually the idea that Halloween kind of does. That, like, you know, Michael's spirit kind of goes into another character. Yeah, I don't know. These movies, though, the tricky thing about these movies is. This is definitely a critical flop, and these movies are getting their asses kicked by critics, but, like, this movie did pretty well. It made, like, $30 million. You know, like, they were. For a hot minute, they were bulletproof, and then they just died. Like, by the time we do Jason Takes Manhattan, it's over. Like, you can't make them anymore. I know. They've got a Prestige TV adaptation of it coming soon called Crystal Lake with Linda Cardellini about the Pamela Voorhees prequel story. This was the last one, because there has not been. It was rebooted in 2009 by her boy Marcus Nistelberg, and there has not been Friday the 13th thing for 17 years and almost everything else has had at least one reboot or adaptation from all the classic horror movies There's an unbelievable clip that's on social media sometimes of when Jason went on Arsenio Hall show Did you ever see this? No, he's on for five minutes And Arsenio just keeps asking him questions and Jason's just like just staring at it Was it Kane Hodder who played the Jason the most? Yeah, it was the actual guy and Arsenio's going with the bit and every time the audience is laughing he goes to the next thing and then he's like I think you brought a clip They show the clip and it comes back. It's honestly great. Who would you who would be your dream? Slasher guest to have on BS. Oh Myers. I don't think we know the answer to that one. Yeah, Myers would be great. What about for you? Wolf Creek guy? Well, we did when we did a Halloween Forum rewatchables That was kind of the end of these movies and they kept making them for the next eight years But well then in the early 2000s they tried like a like the Rob Zombie and Marcus and his spell run. Yeah, cuz we had that era ended then scream rejuvenates everything now We have like the TV actors. Yeah, we get five years out of that and then it gets dark I like the it's in the see our spell Friday 13th is good Bill you've got a pick This is my least favorite category was failed franchise launches. Well, you should take insult I had a lot of issues trying to even figure out what one was but um, I is pop star considered did they think they were going to make a bunch of those or was that a one and done with andy saintberg no i don't think the intention was for it to be a franchise but you want pop star so you're trying to find another place if it didn't bomb it probably would be how about josie and the pussycats that now that is eligible sure i'm gonna take that okay interesting yeah the anti-corporate girl group semi-satire from the filmmaking team behind can't hardly wait yeah right on bill i'm gonna take that one wow damn the man yeah not bad um i like this movie pretty fun parker posey and alan cumming having a lot of fun in it yeah who is it terror reed it's it belongs to racially cooked specific time of pop culture yeah with maxim magazine and carson daly on the mtv show and all those things and it just kind of the scooby-doo movies like that too just kind of fits in awesome great cast great cast this movie's not bad watched it uh with my daughter a few times back in the day it's got a little cult now it's got it's a bit oh for sure isn't it getting rebooted again maybe i don't know but it's like it's also a cartoon when i was a kid which is how i got to um okay amanda you've got one more pick don't well i guess i'm gonna take that one i'm gonna take that one i'm gonna take that one i'm gonna two more if we're gonna do a wild card oh right okay well i have sub 25 on rotten tomatoes left and you know i don't know what you guys have been talking about for the last five minutes but that's okay because this is where the art like the tastes vary and so do you mean because of friday the 13th yeah part four the final chapter exactly right you guys were kind of getting into the lore and i think that's talking about philly sports wise trying to tilt the saw back um yeah do you have any feedback on that you're you're feeling good about lebron yeah i'm feeling good about lebron i've watched some tape it looks pretty good how you feeling about the new offensive coordinator and his zone block running scheme that hasn't made it to me yet which is really good but but it's only because we did institute it zach is very respectful about he won't tell me about the eagles game or what's going on unless i ask right and otherwise he keeps it to himself and i haven't asked about the new offensive coordinator zone blocking is in this year okay what is that you you do the offensive line moves in concert in specific ways okay the running back instead of freelancing follows a specific direction okay i mean that seems that's why wouldn't you do that normally is it you're doing man-to-man yeah yeah hard to pull off okay but there's more accountability in man-to-man it's just like are you better than the guy in front of you yeah okay well i in general think that people should be rethinking their offensive line so um it just kind of feels like if you had that locked down yeah then you know no one can do anything else i don't really understand why there's not more attention paid to it but anyway billy's playoff game's coming soon too yeah i know but that's i mean and then they forget how to do everything it's fine um so i true story though true story though on our seven hour flight back from the east coast my two-year-old son stood up on the middle of the seat and yelled at the top of his lungs goberts did people applaud him uh i think they were just laughing and hoping he would go asleep but he just yelled goberts as loud as he possibly can anyway zach was watching pre-season yeah yeah and and cy knew what was up okay anyway i have a different interest set than you guys so my sub 25 list is long but it does not include any friday the 13th movies i'm gonna go with my heart though on it they're most of these movies are from the heart for me but i was shocked and appalled to learn that sister act 2 back in the habit only has 19 percent it only has 19 she loves the sister act franchise what is going on yeah lauren hill sterling performance are you kidding me i went back and re-watched the finale yesterday and started crying once again joyful joyful with janet jackson interpolated in come on this is a beautiful movie girl maggie smith produced by scott rudin listen i this is a great film i really don't think it deserves the 19 it's just whoopi goldberg sharing the joy of music with young kids what's wrong with that this movie was a huge hit they made 125 million dollars yeah because we know what's up what was going on in like culture and society that people were so against it i don't know what year did it come out 1993 yeah oh the oh happy day scene come on yeah when he saw some theaters my whole family i mean this is absolutely beautiful christmas to life people loved whoopi goldberg for years yeah yeah not anymore bankable a plus list movie actress she was for like seven years uh all right have you seen sister act 2 back in the habit i don't think so actually okay i just but can i send you the youtube clip of lauren are you serious but so you don't know about so at the end i'm older than you guys but lauren hill it's actual lauren hill she wants to be in the music group and then her mom won't let her no and then she almost drops out but they go to the competition anyway and then she's she has a beautiful solo and then it just turns into a whole it's so beautiful i didn't know lauren hill was in it so this makes me want to see i actually didn't know lauren hill was in it really yeah it's right at the i think it's the same year of the first fuji's album yeah which had like vocab on it not the not the one with fuji law on it anyway um less than 30 million domestic the thing is still on the board you guys that took manhunter three million dollars yeah the thing was a huge bomb are you shaking your head like this i mean what year did the thing come out you weren't cheating too yeah you did say 85 85 yeah i mean it's your podcast that's true you did actually did i do that yeah and it's literally in the right i take it back my bad my bad i made that mistake but you know what i'm happy giving it to you though our black hat so you have to 2005 right but i think that was a typo it was basically 85 i took it as 85 on was okay list oh so when it's written down but you guys do it it's okay but when i do it it's not okay it was a typo sometimes yeah sometimes i have typos they're also this category got changed but not restated yeah within the official communications i should have taken the timeline off of it completely i sometimes notice typos in your docs and i'm like oh fastball's going a little bit you don't someone's not paying attention to the details like you used to yeah i can't deny it i'm definitely losing a step you know it happens it's your show big guy i'm falling off the cliff i turned 44 it happens for the best of us it's like 48 um how old were you when you had the hbo show 44 no no i was i think i was 46 2016 yeah 46 was he yeah you were yeah because remember the remember when you came in the office and you're like guys i figured out why i can't see i had the wrong contact lenses that was like the most the biggest moment wasn't just that i couldn't see i thought i had a brain tumor right your head was hurting because my contacts were too strong oh because my eyes got better as i got older and i didn't realize okay so i was wearing like these minus ten and a half contacts with in my eyes i was minus nine and a half so you're nine and a half now yeah i'm seven and seven and a half but i'm coming for you i was going like i honestly thought i was dying wait you have worse eyesight than she does i have worse eyesight than all of you wow yeah my eyesight's terrible i didn't know that okay i've got to take a movie i think you could take the thing i'm fine with it sure i mean he seems upset i'm not i mean i took cruising yeah it's fine i'm fine with it thing bombed i don't think it bombs i don't think you should give in on this uh because the way he said the thing is still on the board guys yeah i didn't appreciate if you've just been like i'm so excited i get to take the thing i think i should have just you should just let me i should have just taken again i am superior i've got this just take goddy did i what did i text you guys when i sent the final text you can have the thing it was it was on the go so you didn't really amend it no i appropriately i i took the number i took the years off because i meant to take the years off there's no years in the text that i sent you when we change the rules that's why the thing is on my long list but you know know what you're right you should take the thing i lost i'm losing my fastball i'm kodai senga we gotta move me to the bullpen soon might be time to put me out to pasture as far as host yeah right okay you gotta do it he did drinks on the house on the house take the thing take the thing just take it it's a good would it be it's a good movie to draft cruising because it's like two years earlier than the thing you can have it yeah go for it would it be better if i took jonathan demi's beloved adaptation of a tony morrison novel why not both you can do one take it as your wildcard okay all right how do you want to pair those films how do you want to discuss them in tandem in a double feature at the new beverly yeah um oh man new beverly's been on fire lately yeah when are you gonna go see it's been on fire they're they're really up to up the game i really love your new life you know because i go to alfred on beverly yeah alfred's my favorite coffee place so i always drive by uh new beverly and every time bangers yeah it's like do you go in or you just like no i just like seeing the thing and be like oh and then you go home and watch it on tv yeah exactly it's like do i want to see pulp fiction at midnight on a friday night no i don't we're too old for that um i'll take i'll take beloved right instead of the thing or are you going to take both of them you're just waiting to throw a temper tantrum at a later date about when you gave me the thing no this opens up you can get sir now based on oh maybe i'll i'll take empire strikes back because we can just like adjust some numbers and be like no no no uh if you'd like to try to do that you can try i'm just kidding you should take that thing because it's a good it's a john carpenter is somebody who oh you went back into podcasting what's that you just started podcasting again you're like well actually john carpenter you know went back to information delivery what's up with your screensaver here it's got a little bit of animation i didn't know that that was possible i don't know i think i think this is just how it came and i was like that's pretty stupid i once again have some questions about your laptop choices but anyway which is too large you know what else i wanted to do in sub 30 i don't know if this didn't necessarily fully qualify us because it didn't cost that much money but i really wanted to do dirty work the norm mcdonald comedy i had that on my list it was between eight millimeter and dirty work yeah dirty work would have been good we both love dirty right now dirty work so funny fucking it's the last farley movie right yeah yeah norm is so funny and dirty work uh and arty damn what happened to arty where's arty at these days arty's still alive chris farley's not no he's not what did you pick he's taking my love i'll take the thing in beloved great okay it's your wild card it's your wild card i mean you get a wild card oh i get a wild card now yeah i said it can be something anything you want anything you want that that has flop to it but so with something that was a failed franchise launch i assure you that's floppy you can now pick anything you want well i just well i was curious i'm this is not my pick the map i know would fincher's girl the dragon tattoo have been eligible in failed franchise launch yes oh yes yeah yes it would have okay i didn't think of that so i'll take a fincher's girl the dragon tattoo which i don't like that movie you don't i mean it's really creepy it's too harsh i gotta give it another chance it's good it's really unsettled me yes but that's the point i didn't like being unsettled okay all right so i'll take i mean it's a fincher movie what do you expect there we go that's a great pick thank you thanks so much i totally forgot about that it's also incredible that i picked that after salt but i do believe in the commercial possibility of salt too and i'm ready to take meetings with anyone who wants them okay bs you got yeah i'm gonna i want to take something that's just super floppy here i can't wait to read my i can't believe nobody took glee by the way you know i thought about it because of obviously you picked it before i did in the i guess the 2003 draft because and that was still we did it on zoom and i got screwed out a couple things and i went for it but i did re-watch some of it yesterday and it just made me feel bad that actually made me feel um like i was wasting my time and so was everyone else i couldn't do it i feel like i took movies that i actually like and are good and i don't have a true flop that's just uh what the fuck happened i can't believe this movie got made yeah yeah um i'm gonna take the island of dr moreau excellent really good a movie that um i've told this story many times but i had an illegal cable box in boston um for about four years where they showed all the pay-per-views and this just started to come on the pay-per-views and was one of the most inexplicable things i'd ever seen in my life and brando is in it and just just you can hear him counting the cash in his head as he's filming his scenes so i was like what the fuck is going on with him and i was like i don't know what the fuck is going on with him and i was like i don't know what the fuck is going on with him and i was like i don't know what the fuck is going on with him and i was like i don't know what the fuck is going on with him people thought he might be having a moment well that moment ended um he wanted to have some more moments but more in more understated work yeah dr moreau is is he's mating humans and animals yeah yeah and now but dragon tattoo is too much for you these human animals are now starting to realize that they're not being treated correctly so you have like a guy who's like half cheetah half human half ape half human and they kind of turn on they have like a revolution it's it's just one of the most incredible bad movies that's ever been made i love it i've probably seen it 10 times have you seen lost soul the doomed journey of richard stanley's the island of dr moreau the documentary about the making of this through the prism of the guy who was the director at the beginning of the movie oh we got fired yeah i have not it's so you will love it it is amazing hollywood history um and it's mostly told by the director of the movie but it's also told through his experience but after he gets fired he john frankenheimer gets hired to finish making the movie and he sneaks back onto the set and he dresses up as one of the animal characters because he still knows all the people in the crew and so he's the director richard stanley's in the movie as one of the characters uprising against dr moreau in this kind of like or imitating life meta moment that is so fantastic but the whole documentary is super interesting apparently val kimmerer was not not a pleasant person to work with on this one it's an amazing movie um it came out i think 30 years ago probably it's never on i don't i don't even maybe all copies have been destroyed not in my home i don't know you have the what do you have the of course i have the blu-ray yeah for the richard stanley stack oh man we got dust devil we got hardware really interesting idea for a movie it's a remake it's a remake yeah and i think the original movie did really well and then when i had my football call mcgrantland i did mailbag cross with nfl picks and called it the island of dr simba that's right and cr was like bill's lost his fucking mind yeah it was that and the bird master and i was just like we're going down with the ship actually isn't it an hg wells no hg wells story hg wells novel maybe dr moreau i think so yeah or jules verne i don't know i think it's wells okay chris you have the last pick well you take sorcerer right here a lot on the board still uh you know you could go with oliver stone's alexander yeah you could go with the wachowski speed racer big one uh i'm gonna go with a film that i've seen more than those movies sadly um i've seen it twice a week for about nine years there in the 2010s and it's pete berg's battleship oh i had it on my list two titanic taylor kitch bombs in this time period john carter and battleship battleship made 300 million dollars it just made 240 of them elsewhere yeah and uh this movie's pretty good rihanna's in it has like five lines yes but she just yells all of them that's right battleship thanks wait appreciate that we're back we're back um yeah when you combine it with john carter and this whole moment that taylor kitch was supposedly having yeah i still like taylor kitch i do too but it's just a classic just on the wrong sports teams for a couple years and he missed his moment yeah um this movie is like hella entertaining though and it's like obvious that they were like you know what would be cool is to hang out in hawaii for a year yeah and that's what they did it's also a movie that they were trying obviously knew pete berg a little bit was they were trying to explain what the movie was it's like it's like the board game battleship but it's like a movie on that and you're going okay yeah sure and liam neeson is in the beginning of this movie who is the likely overpaid older actor to give this movie some credibility yeah so it's liam neeson but you know you've also got jesse plemmons coming off that friday night lights money connection with for sure with pete berg you've got uh alexander skarsgard you've got rami malik isn't this movie alexander skarsgard is playing taylor kitch's older brother yeah yeah they play touch football together i think oh wow are you gonna be watching soccer they play soccer together yes okay and they play soccer and enabled me i saw this in theaters yeah but i don't remember that there was a lot of they air this before like like 195 tnt basketball games right you'd be catching the end of battleship there was a lot of stuff in the less than 30 million that i was looking for um including shortcuts yeah which kind of bomb but i i don't feel like that's the spirit of the flop because critically it was yeah that's like a shot in the same way that you cut out my legs with uh shawshank would you have done it for rounders no because i don't i mean how big were the expectations for rounders i guess probably i feel like if you made as much money as they spent on the movie i don't think it can be considered a money flop i think uh broke even right sadly it Sounds like 28 years later, the Bone Temple, which only made $25,000. domestically yeah that did bomb so i had a couple king of comedy nobody took but i think that could have been on this because that was considered damaging to everybody to jillian on her 37th birthday never seen amanda and i like yeah yes indian tucker movie let's it's really a crazy movie basketball really felt like it might set the boys back but it didn't and south park is still on yep eddie and the cruisers we've done on rewatchables and then uh blood in blood out was one that didn't do well but then became a cult movie after but it didn't do well when it came out i think it made less than 10 million bucks i want to just shout out a couple of sub 25s uh event horizon for christmases this is rotten tomato continue to stand for christmases another 48 hours uh-huh passenger 57 these are not 25 or what worse passenger 57 was sub 25 on rotten tomatoes there's a couple gone in 60 seconds was under 25 thing is is not a 25 movie perfect well there's one historic one that i'm shocked you didn't take which one cocktail which i think has like 17 i know but yeah i guess that could have fit the rotten tomatoes thing but i just don't think that movie's a flop it made like 200 million dollars yeah and isn't just go with it one of the simmons families yeah it's 20 i know but people it just proves people are stupid okay is that movie's elite okay i just you know i know what matters to you grown-ups too is under 25 too well actually most of the rumor has it was on my list as well along with coyote ugly how dare you and uh sleeping with the enemy is also it's not as good as you remember well but it is a little silly sure but it's filmed you know in beautiful coastal locations be careful yeah i know you're a fan roger also didn't like rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead but that was really odd and walker the alex cox movie yeah um and then he also didn't like uh kevin russell's rivals well which will be back in the news yeah in about one month when it's re-released raj the funniest ones for zero stars was dice rules the injured dice clay concert movie needs to say raj not a fan one of your faves is on his list which one 10 to midnight 10 to midnight i almost took charles bronson yeah serial killer that's just a bad opinion um but then jaws the revenge which some people like i like it it's more than people's yeah some people are okay with that one death wish isn't that the one specifically where jaws is like i'm coming back for scheider's family yes yes deuce bigelow european gigolo was on raj's list sure but that's european gigolo not male gigolo the funniest one out of all of these was last rights with tom barringer and daphne zuniga raj is like this movie fucking sucks he just like murders it it's a it's a priest who falls i think he's falls in love with daphne zuniga wasn't supposed to yeah and raj was like just completely horrified by it it's like you showing those teenagers wolf green change their lives forever they can never go back to god no no uh did anyone take a costner anything no i mean really fun part one on failed franchise launches oh my god i've been on that and i can't believe that no one took it and i like horizon yeah i know did you go in there you saw it my dad was a huge fan yeah yeah it's pretty good i told him horizon part two it probably isn't happening and he was like are you serious it's done it exists yeah it's been made it exists yeah it's been made it exists yeah it's screened at the santa barbara international film film nation didn't buy it or something it's really odd um or like some like angel studios people didn't buy it i would go to bat for waterworld but not the postman the postman i think sucks yeah that waterworld is pretty entertaining it's good um waterworld sauce there's a bunch of star bombs tough hair situation you know once you add the water that's who's that was the biggest mistake yeah yeah yeah i can't even remember who's the oh it's uh gene triple horn oh yeah um okay a couple of star bombs that i think are interesting to talk about quickly bonfire of the vanities sure which i don't think we can do this without mentioning that movie which had a had a three-way effect on willis hanks and melanie griffith all books and podcasts written about that um hudson hawk came back again for bruce willis which is a you know like it was his idea that movie he pushed to get that movie made and that totally bricked speaking of bruce willis i don't know if you've seen it but i've seen it before it's the scarlet letter which is like an all-time l for demi moore i think that's kind of the end of demi moore is like a real power broker in hollywood i don't even remember that movie and what happens in it it's a huge well it's based on the novel no i know but i don't i don't even remember why she's in it or what the what they thought they were who's the gary oldman it's gary oldman yeah does she get like naked in it is it like a sex movie sorry i mean is it like an erotic it is yeah is it an erotic what's about her losing her virginity and then being branded yeah i don't mean to phrase it that way yeah does hester prynne get boned in the scarlet letter i mean yeah guys right okay um yeah people were just done with her at that point i think the juror started it and then scarlet letter finished it you know it's a tough one that i always want to reclaim but i never can is k-19 the widow maker it's pretty good is it yeah it is isn't harvey kaitel on that no that one's bad i don't know harrison ford's doing an accident well i know harrison ford's bad even though that movie's pretty oh wait i'm thinking of you five seven one yeah that one's k-19 is not that good yeah you're standing on the beach in this conversation the dicaprio one yeah i'm pro i just re-watched it last year but it was the first time i re-watched it since it came out because i did not like it when it came out it did make move make money but was considered bad for leah but he was fine he was fine i think it was just like as a follow-up to titanic people are like wow what is he doing is this gonna work out but i don't i don't feel like it counts as a real flop though it did bomb no fine but it's an on-paper amazing movie right based on garland's novel and he wrote the screenplay and danny boyle directed it and they didn't put you and mcgregor in which caused like a schism for decades between mcgregor and is that true i think so yeah i thought a good example of this was best defense which eddie murphy is in but he's not a star and it's dudley moore and i think chevy chase i've not seen this on the theater it was during he has 48 hours trading places beverly cop beverly's cop all in a row but best defense is kind of in there and he's in it for like 25 things but it's bad and now kind of nobody pretends that when they list all the eddie murphy movies it's just not mentioned it's like it never happened but it happened have you seen that i've never seen it's a comedy arms dealer movie oh it's bad i don't even i think even tubi's like i had a couple of franchise relaunches that we didn't do mostly because they're franchise relaunches jack ryan shadow recruit we were going to try and do chris pine there yeah and solo a yeah with your boy they probably would have made like three of those had those alden and we worked out for alden he's doing well um i've many failed franchise launches but i'll mention just a couple most of which are not good the mummy tom cruise was meant to relaunch the dark universe and didn't work out elita battle angel will smith's bright the dark tower jonah hex the last airbender the notorious prince of persia worse yeah 47 ronan has to be in this too yeah the kiana movie yeah 150 million on that jumper yeah doug lyman movie with uh hayden hayden christensen i gotta say i'd kind of like jumper good premise yeah it wasn't bad a very famous one is sahara the matthew mcconaughey because there's so many clive cussler novels yes um did you know that john carter lost the most money of all the movies that have lost money i didn't know that until we did this is the highest number it's the first one that comes up when you google adjusted inflation yeah i think it's the what happens at john carter oh he goes to mars and then he meets wula who was like the animated little creature you might be making this up right now no it's true it was a real thing and they spent i assume they spent a lot of the money animating mars and and wula you want to see a picture of wula this is a historic moment on the podcast that's wula oh my god jesus i mean i think that's it any other questions any other questions i think that's it i think that's it any other honorable mentions you want to mention i mean costner with the postman people go to waterworld as the costner flop example but postman and then i don't think revenge is considered a win for me there but it made it earlier in his career i made money though kind of like it yeah i kind of mean okay rock of ages is probably the other one we didn't mention oh yeah i forgot about that one yeah but cruz yeah maruski just couldn't get i couldn't even draft that like you said that valkyrie he's really struggling and then he made the night and day movie that one didn't make okay it's about guys who made a stand you know it's true um but they didn't succeed okay so for our draft in less than 30 million domestic wide release no official year dates attached i selected the thing from john carpenter in starbomb i took ishtar and lost more than 100 million i took the last duel and ebert zero stars i took freddie got fingered in sub 25 on rotten tomatoes i took congo and failed franchise launch i took the man from uncle and in wildcard i took jonathan demi's beloved in less than 30 million domestic i took the lost city of z and starbomb how do you know in lost more than 100 million west side story by steven spielberg and ebert zero stars north in sub 25 on rotten tomatoes sister act two back in the habit which chris and bill have never seen failed franchise launch salt 2010 and then in wildcard also Failed franchise launch. David Fincher's The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I think Amanda's going to win. I have Manhunter, Cruising, Ali. I should have done all one word flops. Police Academy, 8mm. Island of Dr. Moreau as a wild card. Josie and the Pussycats as failed franchise launch. That's a pretty strong list. I took Black Hat in 30 Million Domestic. I took The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford for Brad Pitt's Starbomb. Lost more than $100 million. I took Furiosa, A Mad Max Saga. Ebert Zero Stars for my sins. I took Wolf Creek, some 25% on Rotten Tomatoes. I took Friday the 13th, The Final Chapter. I took Master and Commander, The Far Side of the World. And for my wild card, I put in Battleship. Yeah. Pretty good draft. I don't even know how people would judge it. Well, we're going to find out soon. Okay. I just thought that Shawshank wasn't a flop. I'm glad we all held the fort. Okay. Yeah, you guys did a great job. Yeah. Are you okay? Is this going to be okay? Will you keep drafting with us? No, I'm out. I'm out. You're done? Yeah. Okay. How did you feel? How did it feel to be back? A rebel draft podcast feed. I wish it had been easier. I prepared for six picks for each category. I know. I'm still ready to go and do more. Because it's six rounds in a normal draft? What is this? I got a lot going on. I've got a football podcast this week. I'm rooting for you. Solo dad. I just got a lot going on. Well, thank you, Bill. Thanks for joining us. Pleasure to be here. Always a pleasure to have you. Thanks to Jack Sanders, who is on vacation. Thanks to Jamie and Sarah for filling in. Shout out to you guys. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for production support. Welcome back, Amanda. Thank you so much. Yes. And you'll never take an episode off again, right? Exactly. You'll be on every single episode going forward. Thanks for that. We will be back later this week to discuss the Dog Stars. We're also going to rank all 30 Ridley Scott movies. Bill, what's your favorite? Favorite Ridley Scott movie? I mean, Gladiator is the easy choice. Someone to watch over me is probably the one I saw the most. Okay. Not Alien? Not Alien? Alien's really good. Yeah. Can you make a choice? Alien. Okay. I thought he was going to go Black Reign. Thanks for listening. We'll see you later this week. Bye.