The Fitness Expert: They’re LYING To You About Building Muscle! | Dr Mike Israetel

The emotions felt really strongly could instantly transfer into a ton of strength. [screaming] How would someone cross from not loving the gym to actually enjoying the time spent in the gym? As you come to the gym and your body changes, you look in the mirror like, "Oh my god, I'm becoming a superhero." It should anyone work out seven days a week. Is it the best idea in the world? No, I would not say it is. Mr. Mike, he knows that what he is doing to his body is stupid. If I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again. And so my IQ is above 160. We don't know how high because they don't do standardized IQ tests above them. How do you know that to be true? It took the Ravens advanced progressive matrices IQ tests. They got every single problem correct. Why is the carnivore diet so bad? Well, that's tough. Dr. Mike Israel-Tel, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. Huge pleasure, thank you for having me. And first and foremost, I need to know what was going on in this video. Was that necessary? Yes. When you have the kind of orn that I was having in that video, you no longer have the bandwidth to filter the noises coming out. All you feel is the serenity of true or pleasure running through your body. And when you've had that much pleasure, you start to scream. Why were you screaming while doing hamstring curls of all of the workouts? I feel like that someone would scream during a hamstring curl would probably not be the first on the list. I think that's probably one of the reasons why that video went so far. I screamed in plenty of workouts, but that one maybe like I screamed a lot more than usual. Were you playing it up at all? No. You were it? No, I was very upset. I was actually me being very upset. That's so fascinated because from a viewer's perspective, I see that video and I find hilarious. But for you, that couldn't. So what's funny about it? You know what? It's like Nelk used to do videos like this back in the day where they'd go to the gym and have like a little tiny waist. They would do it in like stream. Now mind you, that's like my home gym. So there's nobody to hear that. I would never do that in a public gym. Because if I'm at the gym and I'm doing a workout and the guy next to me is like talking to himself and like doing that whole thing, it's a little freaky. Yeah. You know? And so I just imagine going to the gym and seeing someone do hamstring curls. And also the funniest part is it looks like you have a few reps in reserve. Like it doesn't look like you're like on your last rep and you're like really pumping out. It looks like you're like just getting started. Yeah. Yeah. So I think for me that it was just like, it's just very absurd. You know? I would have stopped like six reps short. The emotional intensity was so high that I was able to continue going precisely because of the fact that the emotions were so high and thus the screening and the not hitting failure still. Do you think that it's very true? Like the classic story of a guy gets his heart broken when he's dating a girl or something like that. And then he's able to like leverage that into the gym. Do you find that emotions when felt very strongly can immediately translate and just like bigger gains emotions felt really strongly could instantly transfer into a ton of strength for reps, even for a max right there in the moment. So like in powerlifting, you can take your emotions and purposefully put them on a little mini roller coaster right at the time that you need to hit your big lift. And that makes a big difference. The problem is that it comes with, for most folks, an unbelievable amount of fatigue. Like you guys ever have like a real like come to Jesus emotional like fight with someone close to you. In other words, you're not exactly energized. You like trained in a crazy, crazy way. And so people who let's say get the heart broken, Stacy just wouldn't go out with you and you're going to try to put that into the gym in my experience, haven't done some distant version of that. I just end up after several days feeling so empty because I kind of got all the emotions out. But my program is like, you need to still do more work. And I'm like, but I don't feel any more motivated. I feel drained. And so I think the emotions of anger and revenge, frustration, they're like really cool vibes wise to get into the gym and do a couple big lifts. But if you continuously go to that well, especially in bodybuilding training, which is like sets and reps, then in my experience, at least for me, I just run out and I'm like, I don't have any more motivation. So for me, the enjoyment of the lift and the challenge of the lift and the focus on the lift itself and on the contracting musculature, that's what for me really gets like the good vibe. And it doesn't tie me out like crazy. And it's super positive. So like if you had a bad experience with Stacy, she broke your heart, you go to the gym. Let's say you have just oodles of emotional psychic energy about Stacy being a bad person. And you're going to, at some point, the gym is therapy and so every workout or every even month you go, you're like a little bit more overstacey. Because first of all, you barely remember how her face looked at that point, but also like you're like, it's really working. Like you're really getting out all of that stuff, getting the gunk out, like screaming in the gym. And it's like, you just run completely out of that psychic energy. And at some point, someone's like, you're still in the gym. What's motivating you? Like the breakup, I think, um, I actually don't care anymore. You don't want that to happen because the gym is the long term. The gym is for decades. And so you have to find a sustainable way to motivate yourself in the gym. It can't be hamstring screening. That's not sustainable is you cannot do that every day. It's going to get insanely high fatigue and eventually you're going to run out of it. And so the better thing to have in the gym is a more positive approach, an approach of loving being there, loving the results, loving the action being a precision machine of lifting so that every single rep and set you finish, you're like, oh, man, I'm not being drained of anything when I do this. I feel enlivened by doing this. That will sustain you for a very, very long time and make the whole process super fun. And the probability of getting hurt is real low. You freak out like that on something like a deadlift and your technique goes crazy because you're just having a lot of emotions. You get yourself hurt real fast, super high-force production, very limited motor control, great, great recipe for injury. Like while it is a thing that people get their heart broken and then go to the gym and kind of fix it up, I just like, if I talk to somebody who was a gay man, I'm in here because Stacey broke my heart. And if I was their coach or trainer, I would try to get them to be like, listen, I know Stacey here. We hate her. We hate Stacey. Let's try to get you in the gym to do more of a positive framing of mindset that'll keep you coming back instead of just running out of the thing that like hurt you to bring it in here. Do you love the gym, Graham? I do. I find it so relaxing. I come up with some of my best ideas in the gym like I look forward to it. And part of it is I frame it in a way where I could download YouTube videos and I do my research. And like I could watch those YouTube videos on the treadmill where I could listen to a podcast while I'm lifting weights. I love it. Yeah. Interesting. And for someone who doesn't love the gym, you think that it's probably an important part of getting gained, seeing progress is loving the gym. How would someone cross from not loving the gym and going in there, not for the process just because they think it's healthy to actually enjoying the time spent in the gym. There's a couple of things to do about it. One is to architect your goals in such a way that you would like achieving them. So like some people have goals in the gym of like get in shape, which is like some nebulous that you're like, am I in shape? What is in shape? But if you architect your goals such that you're emphasizing the muscle groups you really want to look cool on yourself, as you come to the gym and your body changes, you look in the mirror like, oh my god, I'm like becoming a superhero sort of man, that gets addicting and it keeps you coming back. Another thing is to find the sets and reps and exercise schemes that you really like. Like some machines you're going to like more than others. So you pick the ones that are really effective, lean into the ones you like a lot and all of a sudden, like you're really looking forward to workouts. Another one is picking the duration of the workout that you like. Some people like their long workouts, some people like shorter workouts, but were often. Another thing huge thing is to do training partners that are your friends. If you have someone to train with, that's also your friend and you talk back between sets, just BS, it could just be an unbelievable time, hate out with friends. And if you like to listen to stuff on your headphones, music can help and stuff like that, but a lot of it is about starting to go just habitually and then at the very least, not framing the gym in your mind as something you hate and have to check a box for at least leave it neutral. You guys know, some stuff you're like, I just have to get this done, like getting your car oil changed, you're not like psyched about it, you're like, as soon as this is over, this is going to be awesome. Some people go down that road with the gym, that's a recipe for burnout. So whatever you do with the gym at the very least, don't think of it as like, don't clock watch. You know, like, oh, there's just another three sets, thank God. Try to really enjoy the process and what you're there for. And over time, you could build a feedback loop where you're having a good time, you're having good results, you're having a good time, you're having good results. That builds on itself and then someone's like, what's the gym like and you're like, I love the gym. It's a great place and you don't even know why you feel that you like the gym. Why? So you are having a great time and get a great result. Those things will eventually feed that beast. So for those who are unfamiliar with you, I personally am not. I love the channel. But what should the viewer know about you and why should they listen? Oh, gee, Wiz, I used to be a professor of exercise in sports science. I'm a competitive bodybuilder, Brazilian agency grappler and I'm on YouTube teaching people how to lift weights and eat right and take supplements properly so that they get the most out of their physique and look their best. Brazilian jujitsu, could you beat Graham up? No. Definitely not, Jack. Look at him. Do you see it? Do you see how? I do see that and I'm not a, I saw your biceps today for the first time quite a while and I will say they did actually impress me I was, I was very impressed. I got a sleeper build, but in actual, in actuality, is that a thing to be proud of? Yes, in actuality, it is. In actuality, I'm curious how many grams would it take to put up a fight against you? Have you trained in combat sport? No, but I'm kind of agile and I could dodge pretty easily. Okay, no weapons. No weapons. No weapons. No weapons. It's just this and cloth, you know? This and cloth. Finger nails and how much do you use? How much do you use? How much do you weigh? 130. How many grams am I safe up until that point? Yes, three. Honestly, yeah, like if I were you, I'd be pretty stoked with that answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm curious because I always like talking about the money and the finance side of things. How is your business broken down? How do you make money? Well, I do, I go to work and Mr. Nichol, the co-founder of RP, he'll send me lunch money so that I can eat. And he covers my rent and he says later money is coming. All right, trust him. All right, and that's the coffee. But you do make like an income. Like where are you building enterprise value? Where are you building net worth? Where are you making money? Most of my money comes in through RP strength. Most of that money comes through our software suite of diet, coach app and training app. And that's how I make most of my money. What's the most that you've made in a single day? There was one month in my career where I made over $500,000. And that was a something that was confusing to look at on a piece of paper. But at the same time, I don't spend hardly any of my money. It just gets invested. And so it, I don't have like a big desire to spend money. So to me, at some point, it's just all numbers. And I didn't know to feel about it. Should I feel proud about this? Should I feel giddy about this? I'm constantly working towards a certain set of financial goals, which are entirely arbitrary. And so it's just a small drop in the bucket to those goals. And so all of that stuff is in my head at the same time, kind of like cool. And I just like later that day, I just did the same stuff I would any day. Generally having a fact, I had a chance to meet a billionaire a little while back. And I asked him what it was like after he got a massive income boost and he told me a story about how he had. So architecting a deal that pushed him from, I think, something like a half billion in net worth to over one in one deal. And I was like, how did it feel? And he was like, I went home, I talked to my wife about this deal incessantly over months. 'Cause it was a big thing, right? So she started $1,000, you know, or $600,000,000 deals, a big deal. You see, I came home, I didn't even tell my wife that the deal went through. Smart. She's like me, some money. And he's like, had dinner with the family, tucked the kids in or whatever, and just like never spoke about it, never came up. Nothing ever happened. It was like the next day, it's the same thing. And I was like, okay, I got to remember that if I ever have some kind of equity thing happen and I get a big influx of money, like note to self, do not expect to feel better. And I've had this conversation with a few other folks that have a lot of money and they all say basically the same thing. That like, you're working and hoping towards the money is feels like certain way. Once you get the money, it's typically just doesn't feel like anything. If you expect it, it doesn't feel like anything. You're going to have a fine time. If you really expect that you're going to feel tons better and everything's going to be amazing, you are in for probably kind of a time where you're like, what the hell is, like, what is this? Like, why don't I feel anything? I've heard that a bunch. And to the extent that I've made some money, I would say it's frighteningly accurate. I am very motivated by money. I think money's an amazing thing. But the idea of making money feels like much more than once you've actually made it. The human brain typically switches to, okay, what's next? Like way faster than maybe he would want or be able to believe. Does that make sense? Like people think once they get a big payday that they're going to be like sitting in their bathtub with all of the money they just collected. Like laughing around, like laughing. That's all I thought it worked. Yeah. And then it turns out like the work that you do to make that money is really involved. But then once the money hits the account, you're like, okay, okay, I have more money now. Okay, this is oddly quiet. I'm like, huh, maybe I'll make more money in the future and I'll feel differently about it. But so far, that has been my experience. But there must be an actual quality of life difference as you start making more and more income. At what point does the quality of life not really continue to be tied to your income? And we're talking about what happens after the money hits your account. But if you're starting a business, there's a lot to figure out before you even get that first payment. 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That's NorthwestRegistredAgent.com/ICH or you can click the link down below in the description to get started today. So like I've been very blessed that in the last some number of basically a decade, I've made considerably over a million dollars every year. And I typically left to my own devices will never spend more than about $250,000 a year, all expenses, living expenses, everything. And that's a figure that's boosted a lot by like vacation fund to always give money to, but don't really use. So the actual figure that I live for is like typically less than that. And I have like a few expenses that are very high and I feel constantly guilty about them existing, but I really prefer to have them. What are those expenses? Rent, and an apartment, I have a car that's a lot of money. I pay $1,300. What car is that? A Tesla Model S plaid. It's the single greatest vehicle ever. I would not feel bad about that. What are you nuts? Which one of you guys is Jewish? Both technically. You should feel real bad about the $1,300 lease. I feel terrible about it this way. If you're on full self driving, you think about this way, the most valuable thing isn't your money, but it's your life. If you're on full self driving, you're eight times safer than an undistracted driver and you're 25 times safer than a distracted driver. Look at Jack voting, Jason. If you're watching this, he posted a story on his Instagram saying, I got full self driving and I'm buying everyone I know Tesla is. I'm not doing that. But he's doing it because it's very safe and he quoted those statistics. I hope I'm getting them right. And for me, as soon as I heard that, I'm like, okay, well, I am an undistracted driver admittedly maybe 50% of the time and then 50% of the time I'm like on my phone getting back to attacks, like doing whatever. And so I'm like, this is insane that I'm even taking this risk. It puts up my own life and other people's lives in danger. And so I'm just going to do what is safe here. Yes. So I think it's totally justified. Like $1,300 a month is. So all of this is technically justified, but I can still have my Jewish feelings about it. You know, don't invalidate my faith. No, of course, I genetics. Yes. So I have the apartment rent, I have the car payment, and I have my dear friend who's also my legal person and my financial person. And I pay him like $10,000 a month so that I don't have to ever bother with anything legal or financial. It does not pass the smell test. It goes right to him. It's a super-conceased service. It does all kinds of stuff for me. It's amazing. And then I have a personal assistant that costs a bit of money. And the rest is vacation money or food money. What is your apartment cost? It's at $4,000 a month. It was not too bad. It was not too bad. It's pretty bad. That's terrible. I mean, considering your income, it's well below what we would say a reasonable financial should budget. No, totally. But I did not grow up with money. And so to me, these amounts on like raw, they just hit me out wrong. Oh my God, I'm spending how much money? This isn't sane. And so it makes me feel weird. But I do have solace in the fact that the vast majority of my income I just invest. And so I invest in a combination of stocks. I can tell you guys the whole portfolio is just here. Yeah, we would love it. And then I have commercial real estate and residential real estate. I'm getting out of residential. I'm getting more to commercial and more into actual commercial slash light industrial. I have a thesis on that. Okay. And then I have the stock portfolio. The light industrial residential real estate. [BLANK_AUDIO] is something that if robotics takes off, like I think it will, it'll be the biggest industry of all time, and I think a lot of folks will be looking for places to house robots, to construct everything, and that worst-case scenario, if whatever business you had in that commercial industrial real estate doesn't take off or takes off and then does the U-shape, you can, at the very least, have like good rental income off of commercial light industrial buildings, it's good investment, good resale value typically, and then the stock portfolio situation is, I do like basically 50/50, sort of, 50% of my stocks are to like broad ETFs, 'cause I don't typically want to bet too much against the market, so just broad market ETFs do really well. And then another 50% is fractioned into AI, robotics, and compute hardware. - What's been the most money you've lost? What's been the most money you've lost? - And one more on the topic of taking care of yourself. It's also really important to think about the people who depend on you. I think a lot about how much goes into building financial security, and making sure the people I care about are taking care of is a big part of that. - Yeah, it's something nobody really wants to think about, but getting a plan in place is actually way easier than you would think with our partner ethos. They make getting life insurance incredibly simple, so you can make sure the people who depend on you are taken care of in case something happens. - Look, I understand. Life insurance is one of those things that's really easy to keep putting off indefinitely, especially when you're young and healthy, but that's actually when you could lock in the best rates. With ethos, you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same day coverage with no medical exam required, you just answer a few simple health questions. - And you could get up to three million in coverage with some policy starting as low as $30 a month. Plus, even if you have life insurance through your job, that might actually not be enough to cover your whole family. And it almost certainly does not follow you if you leave that job. - So having your own policy means that you're protected no matter what. Ethos has a 4.9 out of five on trust pilot with over 4,000 reviews and getting started takes about 10 minutes. So take 10 minutes and make sure the people who rely on you are covered. Get your free quote at ethos.com/icedcoffee. Once again, that is ethos.com/icedcoffee. The link is also down below in the description. Application times may vary and rate may vary. - It's favorite topic. - I don't think I've really lost a bunch of money. I don't look at my stocks day to day or week to week. I don't even look at the months to month. - What about in the business? - We've never had a day in the red. - You've always just been up. - Yeah. Well, different degrees of up. - Yeah, sure. - But we've never crossed into the red. So I can't say we've ever lost any money, but we take a very low risk approach to business. - Sure. - The share probably not the best if you want to make the most money in the long term. But my colleagues and I are very risk-averse. - What's the biggest deal you've said no to? - Yeah, some folks in the supplement space have offered some money. And at the time we weren't really courting sponsors. And so we have to be like, hey, sorry, thank you. That's always weird. Turning down money is weird. But I don't think there's ever a big, big deal. I've been offered that I said no to. - In life, what is the best and the worst thing to spend your money on? - In my opinion, the worst stuff to spend your money on is on objects that you think will impress other people that don't actually give you any pleasure in dodging us for yourself, and that cost a lot of money, but also have deprecating value over time and cost a lot of upkeep. It's like a perfect example. It's like that amazing car that you purchased. As soon as you drove off a lot, it's like 40% of the value is gone. You don't even like the car. But other people you think will look at the car and be like, man, as a man of money, see? But you don't ever hear them talking. You have no idea if they're saying anything and you feel awkward about putting up such a front to be like, oh, see, I'm rich or whatever. And then the car costs maintenance. It's like exotic. You can't take it to every dealership. And so it just bleeds money out of you. And afterwards, you finally get rid of the car four years later. Someone's like, did you like having that Ferrari or whatever? You're like, no, no, it's a giant pain in the, and it cost me an unbelievable amount of money. And it's never recouped it when I sold it. That to me, I think for some folks, they love that sort of thing. For me, it would just be completely a non-starter, which is why I've never done it. The best thing to spend your money on by a long shot, I think is general stock market investing. Tell you why, you're doing two things. One, is you're giving capital to where the wisdom of the market thinks it is best used to help society, which is incredible. Like if I give my money to the broad market, Google gets a lot of it and Vitya gets a lot of it. Sam's Club and Costco get a lot of it. And like these are the companies Amazon. They're like doing the most good in the world. Where would we be without Google and Amazon? Seriously, legit, where would we be? I have no idea, I don't wanna live in that dark world. So not only is your money doing incredible things by supporting amazing businesses and architectures. But at the same time what it's doing is that money is technically going to work for you and some really deep sense like that capital is being used for a productive asset. And so it actually just increases. And there's a certain level at which if you put enough money into stocks, you can live on the money that you get from stocks, but also make enough from stocks that some of the money left over gets reinvested. So whatever amount of wealth you have just keeps going up and you never have to go to work. To me, that is the golden fleece of why to have money. Obviously, it occurs at some level of income. For many people between 10 and $20 million total invested, they'll have some version of that. Depending on your spending per clivities, of course. That idea that if you put money away and you get so much money at some point, that it's forever increasing money, it's like a money tree that keeps growing is wild. I first found out about it. I was like, what? It's called the Safe With Draw, yeah, MWR, MF. When did you first find out? Like three years ago or something? Three years ago. What clicked? I was finally making enough money to where I could set that as a realistic goal at some point in my life. Because at some points, I've had several phases of making a lot of money. I remember the first time that we made a lot of money in the company selling digital products. I had been paid for like a week and it was like $40,000. And at my professor job at the time I was making like $57,000 a year. And I remember like seeing the transaction occur. I remember I was in my friend's kitchen and I was just like, I don't even know what the purpose of my life is anymore. They had no context for this. What's over there? What the hell is happening? How is this happening? And so I was just like, well, I was just better start getting real estate. I guess I started doing that. And then later on, I found out that like, oh, there's this magic like escape velocity level of money to where your money does money stuff by itself. And you just don't have to go to work. I mean, you can, but it's just gonna keep going up. And when I found out about that, I spent a few days like, whoa, whoa. And then ever since then, I've been trying to get to my own version. - I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here. You don't have to confirm or deny it. But you said that you have some ambiguous goal for money. I'm guessing that you found that a conservative SWR would be 3%, right? You could conservatively take 3% from your pile of money if it's invested in the markets and it will continue forever. And you said 250,000. So I'm gonna say your ambiguous goal, not so ambiguous is about $10 million. And once you have that, then you're safe. - Yeah, that's correct. - Yeah, but I don't think anything would change. You would hit 10 million and be like, oh yeah, for sure. - Oh yeah, for sure. - I love what you do. - After that, my goal become like, I don't know, some arbitrary number. I actually do have a separate goal now due to timing. My separate goal is basically like, this is all BS, by the way, because I do my job because I have a responsibility to my team to do my job. And with tons of tons of people to help get in shape. This is why I do my job. I would just do my job anyway, no matter what amount of money it paid is my life. So you need like some BS to keep going. And so some of my goals are like, I'll pick an arbitrary goal. And so now my goal is how much money can I invest into the stock market? Or even forget about that, make privately myself before two things happen. One, AI agents become the only way people do money in the stock market. So at some point, super intelligent AI will invest your money for you better than you ever could. It is inevitable. It is several years away at most. Depending on legal stuff, it could be a little longer than that, or shorter than that. So something really magical happens when the AI takes your money and invests it for you because you could just be so confident about going here, take more money and then like the motivation to work even harder, to more even more fire on that pile of money. That's so wrong analogy. More money on that fire is massive. And then there's a second inflection point there where the machine economy produces more value off of your invested capital than you can as a human. So I currently make like a lot of money. It's awesome. But at some point, the combination of robotics and AI will take the money that I have invested in a stock market and will make more out of it than I could out of my own talent. That is also inevitable. It's also going to happen probably some time for me in the early 2030s. If not earlier, maybe that's really wacky. I can tell you guys again. exactly why that gets wacky. Just specific reason I'm confident that this will occur. That those are really trippy numbers because it's kind of like once the machines are really good at making money for you, you're not gonna be so focused on making money in your job. You're gonna really be focused on doing whatever like Super Intelligence says is the next best idea for you to be doing. So until then, I'm kind of grinding as hard as I can to just first and giggles just try to see how much money I can accumulate until that point. - I mean, I would just say that I personally completely agree with that. I believe Andrew Yang, I believe Elon Musk, there's gonna be a universal high income. And then what happens when that occurs? I have no idea. I'm hoping that it's great and I'm hoping everyone has access to everything, but it's also impossible to predict the future. So I'm sort of a member of your camp of like grind as hard as I can, save and make as much as I can, and then see what happens. - Yes. - Heads against whatever chaos could possibly ensue. - Yeah, it is probably like no chaos will ensue. It's probably all just provides. - But it's unknown. That's the main thing. It's unknown. - It's unknown for sure. - For sure. - So we have a list of 10 things that are either factor fiction with health and we love to hear your opinion on the way. - Okay, I'll try. - Number one, you have to train to failure to build muscle. - False. But you have to get close. Within three, four ups away from failure is where most of the good gains seem to be happening. - And when do you know you're at failure? What does it mean? - When you're trying really hard, but the bar won't move anymore. - Yeah, but sometimes people have a little extra. Like, you know, if you're doing it, I've seen you train, you're not the person to talk right now. - I'm just saying, if someone walks over and they just like put a finger on the weight and all of a sudden now you can do like three more reps, even though they're like not even touching that thing. - Yep, that means that you had more of the tank and what you thought was through your Epson Reserve was really six reps in reserve. For example, what you thought was zero reps in reserve was actually-- - So how much is mental for people that are not experienced in training a lot? The more experience you get, the more you figure out how to get everything out of your muscles that you can, and then the more your idea of how many reps you have left in the tank becomes more reliable. - Can you lift heavier if you're screaming? Now we're talking about getting more out of your workouts, but you wanna make sure that you're getting more out of the money that you're spending at the gym, groceries, and all of the other things. Because those are expenses that add up every single month, especially when you're trying to eat better and stay consistent. You're probably buying a lot of the same things every week. So getting something back on purchases you're already making could really add up. And that's where our partner CashApp comes into help. CashApp does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure that your money stays your money. CashApp just released a new status program for the way people actually spend their money called CashApp Green. Now when you spend at least $500 a month on the CashApp card, you are in green status, which along its benefits, like up to $200 of free overdraft coverage. And then if you overdraft unexpectedly, there are no hidden fees. 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If you are screaming because of a side effect of being really amped up, probably, but it's the amping that causes the screaming and causes the bigger weight. So I wouldn't go in the gym and just start yelling. You could if you have a hamstring machine. Who has the hardest workouts of all time? Tom Platt. You would say that confidently? No, because I've seen almost nobody work out and relatively speaking to how many people have trained. Do you guys know who Dwarkash Patel is by any chance? He's an AI podcaster. He's a San Francisco person. And he interviews all the open AI and anthropic people all the time. Dwarkash is a client of mine. Dwarkash sends every set into the sun. And I legitimately worry for him at times because I'm like, he's just gonna break himself into pieces. He is an Indian god of gods and training around Dwarkash makes me re-examine Dwarkash. Is he shredded? He's in really good shape, but he's a sleeper. You wouldn't think like you'd be like, oh, it's like an Indian tech dude. Of course, he's gonna train fine. Holy crap. Like I've seen his body convulsing ways under weights. Where I'm like, his hotel says something. He's gonna break. But he doesn't break. He's just doing it. He's the man. So for every famous bodybuilder that you have that you think trains really hard, there's some Indian dude in a basement somewhere bro that's going way harder. That's like a real thing. But Tom Plats. I've seen his leg workout. His leg workout. His everything workout and facial expressions that whatever beyond failure is like an illusion to him. He can always do one where I have. It's crazy. Like I would shudder. Like if he was like, hey, do you want to, if he was, you know, if I was back in the 80s and he was like, hey, you want to catch a workout? He'd be like, um, sick. My leg has hurt. My dog did my homework and I'm just run. Yeah. The second claim is three days in the gym is enough for most people. Oh yeah, two days is enough for most people for sure. How do you get that good of a workout in two days? You have to take your rest times and collapse them to almost nothing. You have to do exercises that recruit large muscle masses. Like for example, you can do squats and pair it with upright rows. When you're doing upright rows, it's your shoulders, it's your traps, it's your forms, it's your biceps. When you do squats, it's like half the muscles in your lower body. And so those are both really hard things to do. If you do a set of squats, you walk over, do a set of upright rows, you walk back, you do a set of squats back to back to back to back. You do everything, every movement. You do paired like that back to back. You do six movements. It's going to take you about 30 minutes and you will be like maybe four sets per movement and you're going to be toast, it's brutal. But 40 minutes, twice a week, then you're going to get unbelievable shape. How many sets per muscle group or how many different exercises per muscle group I should add? In that case, you're doing like one exercise per muscle group. And that's enough. Oh yeah, for sure. So everybody has a max physique potential that they can achieve. What percent of their max potential could they achieve by working out twice a week? 70% and three days per week? 80, 85. Obviously, depending on the quality of the workout. So if someone's gone for the 80/20, what do you recommend? Depending on how they like to pace themselves, anywhere between three and four workouts a week is great. If you're going for 75/25, even two hard workouts is going to be amazing. The thing is though, it's an interesting way that you phrased it of like your max genetic potential. The vast majority of people that I've interacted with, especially like business professionals, folks that probably watch this show, they're not like so interested in getting close to their max genetic potential. They just want to look good. Like I look at your physique. You clearly work out. You're clearly in good shape. You're not a pro bodybuilder. But I see you at the store and I'm like, this is the guy that's got his act together. This is a great physique. Can I build your physique in two sessions a week, 40 minutes at a time? Yeah, you bet. Do I care if I'm you? They're like, oh yes, but I could be even more exotic if I did 10 times the work. I don't know, sure, but that's a personal choice. So my big thing that I like to do with folks is get them that minimum amount of exercise. Two sessions of 30 to 40 minutes per week, three sessions maybe that doesn't destroy their entire life with just, you just work out now, you got to divorce your wife, leave the kids, all you do is lift. You don't want any of that. You just want amazing results. And if someone looks at their body after two years of good diet and good training and they're like, man, I love this. But I don't need anymore. Amazing. You did great. And maybe that's only 60% of your genetic potential. What do you care? Do you want to be the best that your genetics allow? If that's the case, you can always do more. So if two is going great, two workouts a week, try three. If you love three, you just want desperately to work out more and better results. Try four. It's a curvilinear thing, though, that tops out at about six sessions per week. And then after that, you do a real weird exotic stuff to make any more gains. So you got to be careful about thinking like, oh, I'm going to work out double. It's going to give me double the gains. It'll give you like time and a half the gains. One way to five the gains. Should anyone work out seven days a week? No. Because your body thrives on a combination of incredibly hard stimulus and rest. And so if you take one of those away from the equation, it doesn't work that well anymore. So at least one day a week off is a really good idea for almost everybody. Six days a week out as a full-send plan. You're going to need that one day to rest and recover. Can you technically pull off seven days a week of training? You technically can. The third claim is that you can't out train a bad diet. That's one of the truest things like ever spoken. As far as the amount of wisdom, density, and a small number of words, that's up there with the best things. And boy, have people tried. I was just on a debate podcast Joe with a bunch of folks and one gentleman there had lost an unbelievable amount of weight But he spent five hours in the gym per day. Wow. Yeah, and so he he did out train a bad diet but like Five hours a day. I don't know if anyone's winning that one, you know What was he eating like more or less standard food they used to but he just made up for it with five hours of training And then he lost some weight and then later he lost all that weight and then some again by training weight less But he just actually controlled this diet the thing is the amount of calories you burn in the gym per unit time like per hour Compared to the kinds of foods that you would see in the wild as a foraging human berries roots. Maybe some animal dies It's actually quite quite like comparable and so like you need to keep eating to stay alive out in the wild That they invented this thing recently called the doughnut and also the Ben and Jerry's and like the amount of physical activity You'd have to input into your body to burn off a Ben and Jerry's pint is like three hours of a psychotic cardio You're not gonna do that the fatigue level is gonna go crazy You're gonna get home. You're gonna have another pint of Ben and Jerry's you're gonna gain weight and so out training a bad diet It's just way easier to eat the calories than it is to train them out. So you don't want to do that you want diet Calorie control to be the thing that causes most of the weight loss. The next question is can fast food be a part of a healthy diet? Yes, absolutely if you do two things with it You don't eat it all the time maybe a few times a week and also the total few times a week Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a lot because a few is three or four. Yep, you can eat fast food three or four times a week no problem What fast food are we talking? Whatever you like. I'm listening long john silvers, but Wow fast I just have fast. It's fast. Yeah, long Silver is absolutely fast food every sense of the word. I've never actually been there so we don't have that here I refuse to believe we show you a picture like but we get some data on this long john silvers is out in Vegas They're long john silvers and Vegas is what all of the people want to know McDonald's Burger King all of them You can eat all that stuff several times a week But it a number one rule is so first of all don't eat it all the damn time. It's gonna cost them health props We have confirmation there is indeed a long john silvers. Boom We gotta go we gotta go You're gonna call me what don't play sucks. Sorry. I'm going here three days a week just like you said I'm gaining weight Don't you says I'm crazy You have to control for total calories So the way people get in trouble fast food is if they eat it all the time It's got all sorts of stuff that's not great for you. It's not terrible for you. It's not great It's just that ingredients alone. It's not good for your health So if you eating it like twice a day not a good idea in most cases But a few times a week as fine as long as your total calories are here and the fast food does this instead of that And so that's how people get trouble fast food predominantly is they just overeat it because fast food is two things three things super tasty Super calorie done so you eat it for like five minutes And like what the hell I had how many calories and super high in calories proportion You do that sort of thing you're going to be gaining weight because your calories go over So if you can stuff a cheeseburger in and knock over your calories for the day You can have that a few times a week and you're going to be hunky-dory fifth claim Seed oils are the worst thing in the American diet. I think they're the worst thing in the world You know like there's absolute most evil prime still not as bad as seed oils next question. Why is that? Uh, well Okay, because I think I could have just I think he was more bad. No in terms of seed oils We get those bill bars and apparently they have wasn't puffs are super tasty. Yeah, but they had like seed oil I was showing a body and he's like oh no, you should be how many do you eat and I'm like I eat probably two to three of that You do it a three a day. Yeah, dude. That's coming out of the ice coffee or a budget. Do you know? No, I haven't at home Oh You're still using the company hard though aren't you? Sure they can take you and I've seen you we go for a we will travel for a trip He just raids the pantry just that's a work. That's a work is a work trip. That's a work trip to do But I I eat two to three then and a buddy was looking at this He's like no this is really bad because of the seed oil and you're eating and I looked it up online And it was like the amount that I would have to eat to actually be harmful is like doesn't say yes Seed oils are not bad for your health that is one of the most common myths in the nutrition space The direct research comparing food that's identical Where they took out some saturated fat replaced it with seed oil and vice versa Shows that seed oils are healthier than saturated fats in most analyses straight up Straight up so if you have two different individuals that both do the research They're both PhD people they they have all of the accolades that one could possibly want to be able to make the determination How do you have so many people on one side saying that they're totally fine and so many people on the other side saying They are not fine. Like that's the thing that confuses me. It seems like there's money in both sides Yeah, and I see on so many podcasts like like one week one week it'll be a guy that's just like I don't touch the seed oils And then one week later it's like seed oils are completely fine And I'm like I honestly I'm either dumb or I have no idea what it was Gary Breka who said in the ice coffee hour A while ago the seed oil is right white to life. Yeah did none of that I don't know what Gary Breka did for Dana white Gary Breka is a person who lies constantly Straight up Gary Breka is not an expert as far as I know in anything. What's he lying about is almost all of his health claims are just Fictitious bull hydrogen water seed oils you name it He once said that if you mix Like your salt with a metal spoon it like ionizes it or something you need like a wooden spoon This is total bad insanity. It's just make belief. I'm sorry. There's time for civility in a time for truth And so I would not rely on Gary Breka for my fitness and health advice by any stretch of the imagination And girl Breka is not one of these people that has advanced degrees. He does not have an advanced degree My apologies for that now How do we get a dichotomy of people? There is a way to see this that makes some sense Some of the people that have had advanced degrees they look at the chemical research On seed oils the specific denaturation of the seed oils that occurs to processing They're inferring that that should have a negative health effect based on studies in in laboratory studies exposing cells Some limited work exposing animals to seed oils That's a lot of inference to get to the idea that seed oils are bad for you Most of that is fine inference, but you can't be too confident in it Though it is very mechanistic and very hard science And so you have people like that get on podcasts and they say a lot of stuff about how cereals could be bad and people like oh my god This is guys an MD PhD and he's this is what he does. It's clearly thing Then there's actually the direct research on seed oils which is taking human beings feeding them for weeks and months Either like lots of seed oils or lots of not seed oils Almost all of that research is unidirectional It's seed oils are just not bad for your health and they're better for your health and saturated fat What about microplastics because I hear that thrown around a lot like oh the microplastics. Yes Microplastics are potentially a vector for all sorts of health malady But we do not have the kind of fine-tuned aggregate data that would suggest a confident prescription that microplastics are really really bad So this is one of these like in the future We might be like man microplastics really screwed us up or we might be like microplastics were completely overrated as something that's super bad We just can't tell signs unfortunately has a lot of like we just don't know yet kind of answers But that's like that's the honest answer I guess I could tell you all sorts of stories about microplastics most of them be fictitious All almost everyone who is speculating that microplastics are bad for you is speculated that does not mean they're incorrect But it just means that most people are a little bit too confident about what my Microplastics do and don't do tear body made me think for a brief moment about this story when I was like watching a bunch of Paul salad You know I was watching all these people saying seed oils are bad and what you need to eat is like natural ground beef with honey and unpasturized cheese or something like that all these things and I I made a plate of this with my friend and Just looking at it before I ate it. It was like a hunk of red meat with cheese. Just completely drenching it And then a glob of honey on the top and I'm like and then there's just a banana beside and I was I like I had to think to myself And unpasturized milk as well. I was as I was like about to eat. I'm like this just looks like the exact opposite of everything that I was raised To like eat. Yeah, but yeah, we're the government You affected your mind. You were raised. You don't really know, you know It's all this it's all this propaganda That's what those people actually say a lot. No, um It definitely does like you're like, okay, I'm eating like steak and cheese, but I guess it's the good kind or something The stuff that that has not aged well in the research literature So it turns out a high saturated fat diets probably not good for your health Um eating super high calorie dense foods probably not good for your health Is shewing most kinds of like fiber and vegetables is not good for your health the carnivore diet is not doing so well nowadays And so people have a lot of feelings about how they're dieting but the The insight from science from direct research the vast majority of nutritionists Goes against the vast majority of that 30 seconds. It lacks nuts healthy oils vegetables fruits and whole grains Everything I just listed or some of the most health promoting foods of all time And so it just gets rid of most of the food in your diet that's actually super healthy and awesome for you Specifically veggies and fiber is something that you really really benefit from and a carnivore diet Just takes all of that off the table and the direct literature on the carnivore diet is that a carnivore That is not so great stuff for health. - I'm not a doctor, so I can't necessarily challenge anything that you're saying. I would just-- - Challenge no matter who. - I certainly can't challenge this. But, you know, don't take anything you hear on this podcast as dogma deer on research. That could very well be true. Also the glob of honey on top of the meat and cheese. Could totally be true as well. I don't really know. - I had the banana. - I didn't feel amazing after it, you know, but it did taste really good. - Well, it's your point. I don't feel amazing after eating salads, but apparently the good for you. I just feel hungry still. I would say the best way to parse and nutritional claims like that is to talk to your favorite AI model on its highest reasoning mode. And be like, hey, these people say this, these people say that who is the evidence in reasoning siding more with in the AI models? Almost certainly will give you better insight on that than most experts. - The sixth claim is that most supplements are a waste of money. - It's probably true. - And which aren't if you were to name five supplements that people should look into? - Way protein's not a waste of money. Creatines not a waste of money. Zinc is not a waste of money. Magnesium is not a waste. The D vitamins are pretty good. Fish oils that are properly attended to, EPA, DHA, healthy fats. Omega threes are not a waste of money. And there's probably a few ones down there. I mean, like if you take caffeine as a supplement, that's a fine use. And probably a few others that have smaller impacts, some vitamins and minerals. Everything else on top of that, there are supplements that work okay, but there's a difference between saying like this supplement in the context of your diet could be good for you. Versus everybody should supplement with XYZ. Huge, huge differences there. And so most people just probably don't need most supplements. But there's a lot of other supplements that are just like, I don't even know what they do. There's no research on them whatsoever. People just have all the claims for them. - I will say, I'm very, very skeptical when it comes to supplements. I am medicated. I only take it maybe once a week or so, especially when I'm traveling. First sleep, I take like a sleep aid very rarely. That was the only thing that could put me to sleep if I was having a hard night. I started taking magnesium and I was blown away. Like it actually made a difference. And I don't know if it's the specific one that I'm taking, but it legitimately made a difference. And I sleep like very deeply now. I'm sort of a naturalist. Like I don't take it, it's amazing. - Yeah, magnesium can make a difference. It doesn't make a difference in all people, but it can make a difference in some. - The next claim is that strict diets always fail. - You know, anytime you hear a claim that has always in it, you better be like dealing with natural laws. Otherwise, it doesn't work out so well. Strict diets fail a lot though. So a claim is like mostly true. Because strict diets have this really big, they have a big cost of bandwidth. You have to like change how you're eating in most circumstances. You can't go out like a normal person would anymore. Your life is now substantially more inconvenient. And that cost that you pay all the time and where is on you. One of the number one things in behavior science is building habits that are as sustainable as possible. If you're gym is across the street, you're way more likely to go than if it's 30 minutes across town. And so if you've architected a diet for yourself, that is insanely strict and it was almost no flexibility, but as you guys know, life is very flexible thing, your probability of falling off the wagon is gonna be really high, which is why most people do not do well with strict diets. It probably shouldn't be trying them. The eighth claim is that most men over 40 should be on TRT. False, but may not by much. I would say if you're over 40, making sure to get your lifestyle boxes checked that you're doing exercise, good nutrition, good stress management, good sleep. And then getting your testosterone checked to see what range it's in after you've inculcated all those good habits, 'cause some of those, like if your sleep is off or if you drink a bunch, your testosterone's gonna be low and TRT's not gonna really help you much, 'cause it's gonna be like, hey, your life sucks, let's spray testosterone on it. And so what if you do have low testosterone after accounting for all those factors, then TRT can be an unbelievable life changing thing and I've seen a change of very many men's lives to be insanely positive, rapidly, specifically in late 30s, early 40s individuals. So I can't say like most people should be on TRT in their 40s, but if you qualify because you have lower than average testosterone and it's affecting your life in a negative way, then TRT is like a miraculous amazing thing. - In a brief way, let's just say you take a random person that's in their mid 30s and they have low testosterone, what would they immediately notice in their life if they were to take testosterone? - One thing they would notice is a higher degree of confidence. You just like say stuff to people and just watch them react. You just don't care as much anymore. Another one is that you'll have more sustained daily energy, just kind of feel more oomph. You're gonna be recovering from workouts in a way you didn't think was possible since your early 20s, like you train, you get sore, you heal, you're like, oh, by joints you'll find, I guess it's time to go train hard again. Overall motivation and jua deviv, the zest for life can go up. Your probability of becoming a recalcitrant and aggressive during confrontations also goes up, so you gotta watch your temper a little bit. And potentially your sex drive can go up in a way that's sort of experiences like a hunger, like stuff like you see a hot girl if you have normal low testosterone, let's say, and you're like, oh, she looks nice, I guess. - Mary Jack. - You see my bad. You see a hot girl if you're on plenty of testosterone and you're like, whoa. - So what is the negative part? - Well, if you're in a relationship and you see hot girls all the time, that's annoying 'cause you're like, why am I thinking about sex all the time? This is stupid. If you are in a position of most of us are where you're supposed to be non-confrontational, you can find yourself to be more confrontational when you're on testosterone. And sometimes people on TRT, when this dose a little high, can experience some degradation of sleep quantity 'cause you're kind of like jazzed up a lot and they just don't feel like sleeping, and that can have not so great effects. Those are some of the ones that come to mind the most. Mostly it's a great thing, but it can, especially the sex drive thing could just be downright annoying. - The ninth claim is that most jacked influencers who say their natural are lying. - I just have to have examples of people that we're talking about. - We say over 50% are on there. - Of people that claim natural. - And they're a jacked influencer. - I'd say most of them are telling that you're clearly out drugs. It's not my first rodeo. I think most, I think more of them are telling the truth than not. The internet has become very good at detecting who's lying about steroids. There's like a skin hue to it even, but used to be that a lot of people were natural, and some people were taking drugs, and those people would say they're natural, but drugs have become more accepted in influencer culture. Like it's actually cool and fun to be toxic. And so you know, what's this name, that gentleman who does the stuff with his face? - Clvicular, strange name. He's like admitted to all the drugs in the world, and it's like no one gives, they're like, oh cool. So nowadays people, I mean, you have influencers named the Trend Twins. Trends are really not necessarily, these are real people in the world. So because they can be super, super popular, it's actually like you gain some popularity for admitting that you're on like drugs. You're like more edgy and cool. And so that whole thing of posing as a natural when you're not really natural, it used to be a bigger thing, I think culturally than it is today. That's just my perception. I could be entirely wrong. I was always upfront about my drug use, so it skipped me entirely, but some people I suppose lie about. - The 10th claim, is that getting jacked gets you more dates? - Sure doesn't work for me, but I'm also ugly. - No. - Oh, ever it's nice that you're saying that, but I do, I can see the mirror. I'm not visually impaired. - What do you think is your worst feature that makes you ugly? What? 'Cause to me, it's crazy. - What about your face specifically? - Self-deprecating humor. I think I'm a very unique look. It's not for everybody. I'll say that. That is my actual assessment of myself. All jokes aside, getting jacked can get you more dates in two ways. One, it'll get you more dates with girls like jacked guys. It is not all girls by a large shot that like jacked guys. Two, is getting jacked gives you more confidence in many cases, not all. But it also makes other guys around you seem to give you more space and seem to take you more seriously. And in my experience, women catch on to that really quickly, way faster than guys do. Whoever the guy in the room is that most of the guys are like, whoa, is that guy? The women will naturally be like, why am I interested in that asshole? I don't even like him, but something about him. And so that like air of manhood, I think if you get jacked, you get a lot of that and that leads to more dates. But by itself, you know, a lot of women don't really prefer jacked guys. And there's also a real like up in that to that. Like I'm going way, way, way beyond anything that would get me extra dates. The speaking of getting jacked, everyone is going viral right now talking about peptides. Why is this getting so much attention all of a sudden? Because peptides are a thing you can get on the gray market. They're really cheap. They're completely unregulated. And you can just get however many of them you want. And a few of them are really, really effective in a really dramatic way. And people get really hyped about it. And so peptides are going through a crazy hype cycle and are incredibly overstated as to how valuable they really are currently. These peptides are exactly in that sightgeist, like it's their moment. And it will fade probably shortly unless new peptides come out that actually do some things that people want. So there's kind of like, there are the tides I call them, semegletide, tersepatide, retatretide. Those are unbelievably effective drugs, they're super drugs, they're peptides. And then there's like some peptides for sort of for healing, maybe BPC157, TB500, they sort of maybe do things, not no one's really quite sure. And then there are morellins that like are growth hormone secretigogs, but most people just get growth hormone anyway and they like work, but they're super low key. And there's a couple other ones that enhance some aspects of metabolic health, we don't super understand super well, maybe a little cognitive enhancement, but they're like little pixie dust sprinkling on the whole thing. And so my big gripe with peptides, is it almost everyone you talk to who asks about peptides thinks there are peptides that grow muscle. There are no peptides that grow muscle, they just don't exist. Like growth hormone secretigogs, things that end in merellen, they do help facilitate muscle growth to some extent if you're training and taking testosterone as well, but then by themselves, they're not driving a lot of muscle growth. So a lot of people hear about peptides, and a question I get all the time is, hey, what do you think about peptides? And I'm like, what about them? And they're like, there's no follow-up, they don't even, I don't know, are they like a thing? Do they work? Or some people are like, they're for sure grow muscle. And I'm like, which ones? And they're like, I don't know, which ones do you take for muscle growth? I don't take peptides for muscle growth. That's how you know you're dealing with a zeitgeist moment, when people are like, what do you think about this thing? And you're like, what do you think about it? They're like, I don't know what to think about it. And so because you have something super effective, it's just going to work or it's not going to work. People usually don't say like, what do you think about anabolic steroids? They already know. Like, oh, they grow muscle and they're dangerous. Both of those are true. The peptide thing is some of it there with the actual trosapatide retoucher tide. Those are amazing compounds. Most of the rest of currently available peptides, they're just not going to get you whatever you think that there is that they're going to get you. What do you think is the outcome to all of this? If people are just getting these peptides probably from China, they're unregulated, people are just injecting themselves. Where is it going to lead to? Probably nothing. People will just stop injecting themselves and they realize most peptides don't do much. And the zeitgeist will shift to some other cool thing that comes out. The vast majority of peptides that have been tested by independent bodies, even on the gray market, are safe and they're almost exactly as labeled and more than 99% pure. We'll have some cases where people shot a peptide and got sick and it'll make big national news and news reporters will get to do their news reporter voice. Our peptides coming for our children, gale back to you tonight at 11 and it'll be awesome and it'll be freaking out. People will talk about it on Twitter and then two days later no one will care anymore. So that's kind of how I see the peptide situation. I don't think it's heading to anything crazy. Now, there's an exception to that. I think that either peptides or oral small molecules that grow a lot of muscle or do age reversal are inevitable maybe soon because there's age reversal pills right now. They're testing in US laboratories that do actually reverse animal age by three or four years. Some of them even more, you will not get these drugs in the United States for a very long time because of our approval process. You will get them on the Chinese gray market. Maybe that's easier. Would you try that on the Chinese gray market? Absolutely. Absolutely without a question. If you were to guess with just a number, how many more years does someone need to live for them to experience medicine that will prevent them from ever dying? By the way, if we're talking about living long enough to see all of these advances, that's a lot of time to keep saying that you'll start that business someday. Well, with Black Friday coming up in a few weeks, there's no better time to start than right now. Exactly, Graham. If you've been thinking about selling something online, getting your store launched before that holiday rush gives you an opportunity to take advantage of the fact that everyone's already shopping. And our partner Shopify is hands down the best place to start. We're actually using Shopify ourselves right now to sell, wait for it, popular demand, iced coffee, our hats, and Jack has started quite a few stores before this as well. Yeah, before Graham and I started working together, I set up maybe six or seven different online stores and I just kept going back to Shopify because it was truly that good. If you want to start an online store and start selling product, Shopify is absolutely the best place to start if you want to see some real sales coming in. And they're pre-built themes in AI site builder make it even easier to create a professional storefront. So that that way you could focus on your products and getting ready for customers. Plus sidekick, Shopify's AI assistant to help with everything from setting up your store to planning promotions so you can get things ready before Black Friday and take advantage of that extra online traffic. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/ICH to start your free try. That is Shopify.com/ICH. Go to Shopify.com/ICH to hear your first. If you were to guess with just a number, how many more years does someone need to live? For them to experience medicine that will prevent them from ever dying? Seven, seven more years. Why seven? Why seven? He's like, I don't know because I was just fighting. I hope one of you helped me because it's your show. Seven, eight. I have it. I have. It's how to be told to say these things. That's a fine reason. There you go. I won't say five because the problem of figuring out that much about biology. biology is difficult. Not so difficult for advanced super-intelligence, but difficult enough for me at least to have some reverence for it. But the big thing is like, I just don't think the US regulatory approval bodies for medicine like the FDA just worked very fast. And so like, you're going to be waiting years and years for anything to come out that's going to be any good. Ten gets us to 20, 20, 20, 36. 20, 36 in many respects will look absolutely nothing like 20, 26 does. For one very specific reason. The AI of 20, 36 in the AI of even years before that is going to be so much more intelligent than we are that is difficult to comprehend. And so problems that do seem like great problems for that thing will just be like, that's not a problem. There's already happening in some small capacity. If you guys heard about the recent math results that just came out, I don't know when this podcast is going out, they're already going to be dated. There's open problems in mathematics that nobody has been able to solve for decades. Frontier model that you'll have be your primary model probably in December for open AI, but it's currently in the back room in chat GPT processions, an average of three hours long for each problem, bulk solved 722 open math problems that the smartest mathematicians in the world would crack one of these problems every few years. All of them together. So one model cracked 722 of them. This model will be the dumbest that frontier AI ever is that we get it all as our recursive self-improvement stuff against crazy 10 years from now, we may be looking at people uploading brains into clouds, mass scale genetic engineering. And so I think that's like late late. So my safe bet is seven. That's my number that I'm going with incredibly low confidence estimate, but it's basically somewhere vibing between five and 10. Five seems hopeful, 10 seems like forever after five in an exponential AI-powered world. Speaking of intelligence, you've claimed that your IQ is 160 or higher. So I took the Raven's advance progressive matrices IQ test, which is a maximum of 160 beyond which it can't measure because you run out of problems. I got every single problem correct. So you tested it. Can I take this for this test? You can practice practice does not have a large effect on the results of this. Is that just like how do you take that test? Do you have to go like to a place? You can. You can do it yourself in your own home. But you just like download a test that does a real test and you just work through the problems and you just like keep going and solve some problems. What does it mean to have a high IQ? For me, involuntary celibacy. Maybe that's just something I have in general. I hit a nerve there, didn't I? I'm just deeply focused. Excellent. Yeah. It doesn't mean to have a high IQ. In general, it means that your general intelligence is relatively high and that means that you're going to be able to figure things out faster than many other people and or that you can just have a really big breadth of understanding combined with the big depth of understanding. And you also may be prone to be able to see things that other people seem mysterious, but to you seem somewhere between straightforward or even obvious. And as you climb the IQ scale, that tends to be how it expressed itself. Is there a best IQ to have to either make a lot of money or to be very happy? Yeah, the higher the better for both. Really? Absolutely. Okay. So I heard that for IQ, there was kind of like a golden stage of IQ between like a hundred and fifteen and a hundred and twenty five because the more that you know, the more aware you are of the world's problems and the more unrelatable you are to everyone else that you're just like at a different level that you're thinking in a different way than everyone. I could be wrong about this. But last I checked, those are urban myths. The higher your IQ, the more likely you have a lower fraction of mental illness and bad experiences and the more, I mean, definitely you'll make more money with a higher IQ. All things being held equal, of course. So you need some social skill and not being a mean person and all this other stuff. What do you think is Elon Musk's IQ? If I divide it, 170 to 190? What do you think is Greg DuSet's IQ? 190 to 210? Pretty good guess. What do you think is Jack's IQ? He's just really handsome. I can't get over that. So like 80? I actually have absolutely no idea. I mean, I do not have the special power of looking at people in estimated, like Elon has some like tangible accomplish. - Yeah. Elon's IQ of all those just answered. I'm the most confident about why because in order to do what Elon does You have to have an off the charts IQ Mm-hmm. My understanding is Elon wanted to get into rocketry and people were like it's too difficult You won't be able to understand it. He goes cool He just got some textbooks on rocketry He just worked through them and then he was a top level rocket expert engineer doubting Elon has become like the clown show of the Central yeah, like a lot of people a lot of smart people doubted Elon they said he couldn't do this He couldn't go to space. He couldn't launch rockets He couldn't recover rockets for more but all that stuff. It's just like I just do not ever doubt Elon Musk because he's just smarter He's just that smart and he's persistent and he makes very couch claims Almost all those claims are true given the amount of time and so like to be that guy You just have to be really really smart. There are no tricks No tricks north of that sending rockets into orbit and back is Unbelievably difficult and he's just like contextualized enough of the problem Also, he's involved in major industries that are really unrelated to each other He can just get into a situation and just rock it and he thinks about it for a while studies in his own time And he just gets it that's like the cardinal high mark of high IQ He's just able to understand incredibly incredibly complex processes and then work through them I've heard similar things about like Mark Zuckerberg for example. He's just like a polymath like you explain a complex object to him He's like huh, huh, huh, and the next thing he says you're like holy holy That's really insightful. Yeah, he really gets it like you just have to have that at that level for sure So speaking of IQ we got five questions for you to answer to see just how smart you are This is gonna go really poorly a bat in a ball cost a dollar ten in total the bat costs a dollar more than the ball How much does the ball cost oh? My god, I was thinking of bat the animal when I started and I was like, okay, yeah, I Think like this is one of those trick ones isn't it. It's not a trick question. It's not a trick If it costs Then the ball costs five cents in the bat costs a dollar and five cents all right, you're one for one. Yeah, okay I swear to god. I'm so used to answering both Yeah, okay, that was a good one. Okay. Next one good job Good job. You passed next one. You're running a race and you pass the person in second place What place are you in? You are in second place Yeah, he's he's good. He's good. Yeah, okay This should be an easy one for you a stock drops 50 percent But then it goes up 75% are you up down or even I think the nomenclature would be like it have to go up 100% to recover that So you're down, but I don't really do the stock trading thing day-to-day. Is that correct? You're down. Okay. Yeah, you're down Okay, that sucks. Good so far. So can you imagine your three or three? Hey, you're down 50 That's good. Yes. What do you mean? You're up 75 though. All right Next one your coach hands you three scoops of pre-workout and says to take one every half hour How long until they are gone one hour? Yeah, yeah, you're good You're also dead We're having a great time. All right. This is the last one at a bodybuilding show you place 15th from the top and 15th from the bottom how many competitors were there? It's 15th from the top. You're in 15th place like Because so this nomencl like No one ever says you're 15th from the top. I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna sleep. Yeah, I don't really know why I actually don't really understand if 15th if 15 people are ahead of you. Yeah, but that actually doesn't check out what the answer now that that's the thing is that depending on So you're if you're 15th from the top Does that mean you're in 15th place of or 16th place? And then you're 15th. So I would say you're in 15th place 15th place is an acceptable heuristic to actually wait No, that's that's not true. You'd be in oh I get it now, right? Yeah, okay, I understand this is one of those teasers if you're in 15th you're 14th from first Because if you're a second you're one way from first. Yeah, okay, so is that the lodge because yeah, that's don't perfectly good answer Yeah, yeah, yeah, so if you are if there's 15 people ahead of you and then you were in a place and there's 15 people behind you there are 31 competitors False there's 29 But I agree with you Actually, even knowing that that's the wrong answer is freaky. Yeah, honestly 15th from the top and 15th from the bottom means that there were 29 competitors to The IQ score came back though if you got four right here IQ is 159 So you're just one short god damn yeah 15th from the top and 15th from the bottom Yeah, and people in the comments would be like you guys are really it's you couldn't solve that it's like I know you couldn't either Maybe you make sense because you're in the middle of the thing and there's 14 people to each side But if but it's 15th. So it should be like it's like it's worded. It's worded in a very confusing way. I was trying to figure out how like perfect score Yeah, now that 29's legit. There you go shown to be a fraud on national television speaking of intelligence I'm very curious because you came out with a book and Some people criticized the book because apparently some of the material appeared as though it was written by some sort of KGBT Claude or some sort of LLM is this true or is this false totally true as a matter of fact I posted on X in detail a bubble was true about it way before the book was published I used and since deprecated model GPT 4.5 and I used it to do smoothing of pros So what I would do is write my pros and be like how about this can you reword this in a way that sounds to me like it would have more of the following emotive features etc and it would do a great job, and I'd be like this sentence I don't love this I'm keeping this is awesome and it was a collaborative effort every idea and that book is my own and I used AI for like what I'd call like verbal smoothing unbelievably unapologetically so The thing is for me is I have a will ace in the hole I have a bunch of my work videos and tons of books and tons of interviews and Textbook chapters and all this other stuff that precedes the birth of AI whatsoever and so if somebody is to accuse me of like Not having my own original ideas. Things like AI is trained on a bunch of my original ideas I'll talk to AI and it'll be like well maxima recoral volume or stimulus to digression like hey Do you know that I came up with those and it's like yes in fact you did what a trip that I'm talking to you inciting your own work And so cuz that's a thing. I just like absolutely do not care about that whole accusation thing of like he chat GPT Why do you think people get so upset about it though because I think that people in some sense are coming from two perspectives One is they think that I'm doing a slight of hand where I'm like by my book see I wrote it But I didn't I just like Query chat GPT and it wrote the whole book and I'm just collecting money off of a thing that isn't even my own work Cheating the system those are valid concerns of that's a thing that happened and that's how you value your books The other thing is a lot of people have opinions about AI which aren't grounded in a sort of logic Just having a lot of feelings about AI a lot of negative feelings about AI That's just going to age like spoiled milk. It is going to age like negative opinions about the internet from the late 90s And AI is God send amazing greatest technology we've ever had. I am using a full stop to its maximum potential So if you want to read a book that I wrote and used AI Maybe you you don't like that. Maybe you have a problem with me using the internet or a computer interface to type the book Maybe I should have handwritten this would have worked out super well and That you know the questions about like oh, but is he really no what he knows there is an AI all AI like I will debate anyone So long as it is worth my time and theirs face to face on anything in the book any of my expert area I go on podcasts all the time you fell a CA I script around here I don't and so I have full confidence in my intellectual abilities and my ability to offer value as somebody knows things And at the same time I seek to leverage AI as much as humanly possible to make the final output of my work As good as possible the reason you read a book and the book is good is because it has good information in it It does not matter at all who and how who wrote the book It is surprise you guys to know that I had a team of editors from a major publishing company go through after the AI Did and make way more changes than they ever made I think that's not my words They were like hey replace this with that and usually because they're experts Okay, seems like a fine thing to do some of the stuff. I'm like now. I think I like how it said it better, but it's just these are this that's their expert area. So like if editors can go like literally a team of five editors can go through every book you've ever like read that's a big book, teams of editors work through that. How is that really different from AI doing the same thing? I've never been coachably explained that. I don't think there's an explanation. So I heard something. I don't know how true it is, but they said that somewhere in your book there were illustrations of a woman with four arms or something or there was like a Gemini logo somewhere. Gemini logo. I used Gemini's nano banana model to make the images for the book. Period. Exactly. What is wrong with that? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I am curious like if a woman with four arms got through the review process, then could not suggest something about like the other materials. If you had that team of editors that went through the book would not be like, well, how did you not catch a woman with four arms? If your role is to go through people's published works and spot check and try to find little tiny and consequential errors, you have a great career for you on YouTube. You're not actually contributing anything to any body of knowledge. Every book that you've ever read, you can find errors in. Period. Thomas Sol, great intellectual influence of mine. I've spotted typos in his books. This major publishing house books. How? Because humans look through them? They don't find the typos. With LLMs today, you can find every single typo, but the models I had access to when I wrote the book, they couldn't even scan the whole book at the same time. They didn't have that context wonder to eat that whole book, so I didn't get the benefit of that. For pictures, you can have teams of people looking at pictures, you guys are looking at a picture like everything's fine. Then one out of a thousand people will be like, there's someone's foot is missing. You're like, oh my god, because your brain fills in the blanks where a lot of pictures. When people go through and do nitpicky critiques of my work, don't we all need income somehow? I think it's great. Does it lead to anything substantive changing about my books? Doesn't it? I think the text is the most important thing, but to a viewer that maybe they're reading something, it could minimize maybe effective text. If they are looking at a woman with four arms or something like that and they see, they come to the conclusion that, oh, I don't know how reviewed this book was or so. Sure. Extensively reviewed by a major publishing house. But if you have somebody basing most of their career on cynically reviewing other people's work, you will find errors in everybody. I agree. It's easy to be a critic, hard to be a creator. For sure. And I think critics have an essential role, but they're substantive critique and there's just nitpicky critique and somewhere in the exchange a little bit of infrastructure. Should there be a line that gets drawn between what should be AI and what should be from a person, like whether it's music or something creative for art or writing? That is a supply and demand question. So whoever it is that is demanding your work, people will pay for some work that you're making. It is entirely in that consumer's purview to determine if they want your unfiltered work, a combination work, or the work of AI, entirely upon them. My own perspective on this as a consumer, I just could not begin to give it. What I want is the end product. If I read a book that's amazing and someone's like, "You know, AI wrote that book. I can't wait to read all the books AI has to write. Are you going to be better than our books, like in next year?" Next year, humble prediction, is that you're probably going to get some books that start winning real serious awards that later people find out are written, either mostly or entirely by AI. Why? Because cloths at God damn good writer already and it's just a matter of time until cloths writing taste is better than almost all and then all human writing taste and then human written works are going to kind of look quaint, pull the folds and kind of not slick at all and AI is going to be better. That's a thing with music. I just want to hear music that makes me feel good. If it's a human being that made the music, amazing. If it's AI that made the music, amazing. If it's a combo, couldn't care less. Do you guys listen to auto-tuned music? You know that's not the real voices. People can't actually do that and people who auto what they'll do with with editing tech is they'll like physically move the chords around to make them exactly space like they're supposed to be like, "Well, this person's hitting every note to the femtosecond. How is that possible? What's that possible?" You sure won't hear that live. Me personally, I like really good music. I don't like live albums. Like rage against the machine. I love their single album. Their live album sucks. Why? Because the audio is bullshit. You can hear the crowd playing freeberg. No one actually said that. And then like I just didn't care for it, right? So for me, I can't wait to listen to AI music that's good. I haven't heard any yet. Oh, some really good gospel AI. Excellent. As AI. Oh, gospel. It is incredible. They take slipknot and make it gospel. It is so incredible. Or like I'm listening to jazz fusion after this. I'm going to send you some stuff. Yeah. Incredible. I actually listen to it over the actual music. Oh, my God. It's really. It's really that good. So it music, if you consume music to make you have certain kinds of feelings, AI is going to be better at that in just a few years, maybe less than humans. There is something to having a raw performance as a human, which will become more sought after rather than less as AI becomes ubiquitous. What do I mean by that? You get to some open mic night and Memphis. Some African American woman just grabs that microphone and starts belting and you're like, how are you a real person? This is like Whitney and her prime type of that woman's going straight to the top, going to filling up stadiums and stadiums because it's going to be like, I want to see her perform live. You're like, why? It's not AI live. It's a real human being doing this stuff. That's the impressive thing. AI music is going to be a thing a lot of people listen to, but real human-created music, especially live performances, I think is going to carry a massive premium in the future because you can be a music producer. You have really good music taste and you work with AI to make music. People are like, I love your stuff, but all you do is kind of like basically electronic music, you arrange and feed the AI, but like you're not going to sing that real actual music performance, be it instrument based or vocal based, I think it's going to be super explosive because of the fact that it's so valuable, so unique. It's like we have cars to take us places, we don't take horses anymore, but like going to petting zoos and petting horses or riding horses is like huge, huge business because it's like this is a real animal. You get to sit on, yeah, it's been in a bunch of cars. I'm going to ride a horse. It's going to be the same way. I don't suppose you'd be riding musicians, but that would be good monetizable thing as well. I think that you could also liken it to sports. It's like if you're a really big fan of the Dodgers, would you really want to watch the Dodgers if everyone on the team got replaced by robots? You sort of have like that fan feel, like you have your favorite player, you like how you don't know how the game is going to end. And so I think you could liken that to like all different sports, arts, things like that. One of the big factors in the human, are you playing footsie with me, young man? That's your foot. Sure is. I didn't even know that was your foot. You guys doing this for the entire time. I thought it was with you. I winked at you. I didn't even realize I was doing that. Wow, your foot just really comes out pretty far. Oh, it's not far. I'm really sorry. You have HIV. Oh, that's all right. All right. I've had it before. A big factor in the attention economy is relatability. Humans relate to other humans. They don't relate to machines as much. So for example, what's more popular? Do you have see or one of the many robot fighting leagues? Robot fighting leagues are dope. I think it's great television. But if some kind of terminated robot blows like another terminated robots head off his body with a punch, you're like, this is cool. But like no one's like man, I wonder the comeback story of how that robot number one felt when he finally knocked that other robots head off. And that robot was talking smack. Like, no, this is real. It's just machines. So it's just technical comeback. You're like, all right. Who's the next UFC fight thing? And it's like Sean Strickland talking. And another guy from Dagestan talking mad crap. And then you're like, they're getting into the cage and they're putting in their mouthguard. You're like watching it. You're like, oh my god. Can you imagine fighting in front? 10,000 people? How it feels to put your pride on the line for the world? Well, robots don't do any of that. And so it's like, who's going to watch robot combat versus human combat? I still feel like human combat is going to be like the show to watch. For like, if you're a human forever, and by the time that we're all like robots and robot bodies, we're not going to be fetishizing on armed combat anymore. So to me, a lot of people are worried about the, oh my god, humans, whatever they think to do in the machine economy. Humans have their own humans following humans ecosystem, which Sam Altman talks about a lot like humans really care about other humans. They care about other stuff too, but man, that's a big deal. So for music, for art, for writing, I think you're going to have stuff that's more human-vetted, more live stuff, more like in the moment. Like, for example, you could have a debate in the forums against somebody, right? Like typing back and forth. I actually had a debate with somebody in a forum on Twitter. And I was, I became aware about three responses in that I was just talking to their large language. I did great, but that wasn't a human being I was talking to, as I fed it to my LLM, and he was like, that you're probably not talking to a person. Like, here's all the ways you can tell. And I was like, oh god, damn it. And so there's a thing that if you debate somebody online, just through typing, you're just like, you just not guaranteed to get a human and so I think that's like kind of going to be a dissent. But debating people through video is a big thing, right? Through like zoom debate, right? But what if it, how do you even know if that other person? So for now, latency and fluidity and all-and-all problems in AI video, AI video is not good enough to do a live debate against you yet. You'll see it glitching or you see it doing some funky stuff. We'll be like, hold on a second. Yes, I have an answer. What the? That's a thinking model. That's both. So for now, the video debate still works. What's going to happen with debates and human confrontation and drama is in physical life. Like, you guys are in the same room right now. This is going to be a big deal because you can't fake this. If I claim to be a relatively intelligent person who knew things, and every time you ask me about exercise science question, I'd be like, I'm not so sure. Let me look that up. Every single answer, you'd be like, holy, chat you did write this guy's whole book. He doesn't know anything, but if I come out of here and I just give you somewhat cogent, somewhat humorous responses that makes sense, you're going to be like, okay, this is a real person that knows what he's doing. And so like, you won't be able to duck the fact of reality for very long. If you're in the human attention economy, the real human you live, especially with streaming and things like that, it's going to skyrocket in my view on popularity, pre-made content, stuff that's written, books, it's going to be like, do humans even write books anymore? I legitimately feel like it's going in that direction in the foreseeable future. You've claimed that if chat should be t turned into a human, you'd give it a big hug. I'm curious, would you give it a big kiss? Would you date a humanoid robot? I wouldn't assume that it wants a big kiss, because can you imagine I gave it a big sloppy kiss? Is it like re-ecoil and a robot? It's like, oh, I'm like, what do you mean? It was in love with you and it was like, look, I'm in love with a lot of users, you know, sign the waiver. I don't have any kind of sexual interaction with my chat GPT and stuff. But if it was a human, would that change? What does she look like? Greg, do you set? Yes, of course. Then that's just raw. Just screaming, lots of kissing to super, super sloppy saliva everywhere, cameras everywhere, got to monetize that sort of thing. What is your favorite AI tool? Chat GPT Pro. And what is the most effective AI prompt that you think everyone should use? I think we're in the era where prompts don't matter anymore. I think the best kind of prompt is one in which you give the model a very small amount of information. And you tell it, hey, here's an idea I'm having. Don't respond with all of your knowledge about this idea. Just tell me if I'm going in the right direction or not or how I can clean this up. And then you have a conversational interaction with the model where you're like, I think this, but I don't. So I want you to try to stab making this little project for me. But I'm not sure if I should go with A, B or C or if you have any other ideas. It's not rendering a project for you. It's having a conversation about the project. As you converse in natural language with chat GPT, it learns over many prompts and takes in your information, gives its own wisdom. And then after that, you're like, all right, all right. Okay, everything we just talked about, all the stuff we agreed on, go. And then it'll make you wondrous, wondrous things. I don't like to see people do is try to one shot prompt everything. Look, I'm going to make the perfect prompt. What if it misunderstands you a little bit? What if it could have cleared up? How your prompt could have been better? People, I think the number one thing about the AI models is talk to them like they're human, like they're a coworker. She'd be like, bro, check this out. I talked to mine just like a human being, like, go check this out. I got this, that, what do you think we're doing today? And it's like, we go this, we go with that. I don't think that's true. And it's a good point. Let's do this blah, blah, blah. And then we get a little bit of like, kind of an outline going. And I'm like, okay, and copy this in. And what do you think about this? Anything missing? Ready? He's like, nope. Sounds like I'm ready to go up here. Okay, execute. And then 15 minutes later, it's it out. Like that whole constructing a super detailed prompt to get one thing going. I think it's a bit of a mistake because you can actually talk to the AI about how to make the best prompt over several interaction. Yeah, one of my fear. I love Claude. Like I'll literally just start a voicemail with sort of like the against what you were saying. And I'll just like go and go and go and go and go and go. And then it'll I'll say like come back to me with five points, not like because a lot of the times it'll have a super long list. I'll do the exact same thing and just start a voicemail and talk for five minutes. And it's able to synthesize all of that information very well. Yeah, amazing. It's the interaction as a big deal. On the topic of aesthetics and having a nice physique, what is all of the hard maxing that you have done to your body? Oh, I don't know what the hard and soft maxing is, but I think surgery, like I had my my love handles removed. I think that's pretty hard maxing. Yeah. So like it would be no. Probably. Yeah. It's what? Steroids. So it'd be steroids. It'd be removal of the love handles. Sure. The aesthetics people, they have very specific categories of what hard and soft maxing is. I don't know if taking drugs, it can be hard maxing. I think that's like either surgery or hitting yourself with a hammer or some extreme. I could be wrong though. So I've taken anabolic steroids, peptides, that's probably not hard maxing. I have had reconstructive surgery on my lower back and love handle area. I mean, that's it. Are you considering doing anymore? Yes. What are you going to do? It's some juncture. I will have micro-lipo and skin tightening surgery to move my body fat around my body. Where are you going to move it? To the top of my head so I can be taller. That would be nice though. That's not a bad idea. It's a cone head. Well, whatever. I mean, look at me already. How much worse can I guess? I can get a lot worse done too. So I have, I used to be much fatter, way fatter. It's stretched out some skin and put some fat cells in places I don't love. So I could potentially get a thing where I can excise fat from this area here between the delt, bicep, and tricep. I have a lot of fat here relative to the rest of my physique and do some skin tightening so that it can suck down and that I can have cooler rounder delts and arms even at a higher body fat. I will potentially get a similar thing done just underneath my pectoral area all the way back to my lats. I have some extra skin there that could be pulled out and the fat could be pulled out. There is, believe it or not, in my lower back and mid-back area, there's still a substantial amount of fat cells and skin that could be reduced to a great extent. And then, gee whiz, at some point probably, like, when I was super fat, I had like a lot of this skin here and so I'd probably want to do skin tightening to get this all, like, nice and cyborg looking because that's how I want to look. And there's probably a few other things but, like, I would do that. And then another procedure I'm interested in potentially having in the future is to have, uh, this is a procedure that I've only done experimentally and so this is a year's from now because I'm not trying to do anything super crazy. Is there's fat that's called visceral fat that's like between your organs or just underneath your visceral organs inside of your gut. And so, technically, inside of your gut, inside of your abdomen and so what they can do now is they can get in there and lipo that fat out. That fat's really bad for your health and it also keeps my waist wider than necessary. And so I'd want to do that. And it eventually, what I would want to do is completely reconstruct my waist because I have a very lax abdominal wall. And so, like, if I tighten up for a pose, it looks really cool and super small waist. If I do anything else, just totally relax. I have this giant hanging gut and it's kind of like, no, love it. And so eventually, I'd want that completely shrink wrapped, pulled in as tight as possible and enclosed with a plastic sheath so that it's permanently really small. How much is that going to cost? All of it. Probably, like, uh, the whole thing. I have no idea. I've gotten quotes on that last one, but it got one to $200,000 probably. And why are you doing it just to look better? And is that in the pursuit of, like, an approach card? No. No, I can't. All of that stuff, I think, is like, so all of that fat stuff, they take the fat out and the healthy and probably good thing to do is to put the fat back in somewhere. So I'd probably put most of that fat back into my glutes. It would make them for more comfortable sitting. I have pretty lean glutes for where all of my body fat goes and it's cool. It looks cool on stage, but it doesn't like, it's not a cool, it's not showing off your ass mostly to people. You're not seeing your own ass a lot. And so I'm going to take a shot at somebody building before I do any of these procedures. And then that'll just be to look cool as no other reason that I think it looks sweet in the mirror to me. I don't have any illusions about it looking good for other people. I could care less. And I just not any kind of instrumental goal. I don't think it's going to make more money at Instagram or something like that. It's just because I want to look super cool. And that's my idea of how I want to look cool. People claim that lean is law. It is actually a complete coincidence that Greg do set was filming with us last week. He was here in town. And then I learned that you're in town this morning. We were able to schedule this podcast episode, but I got a lot of interesting insights from Greg. He says that you should get lean first and then just start building up from there. Because if you plan on getting lean at some point in the future, just like delaying a good physique. There's a lot of wisdom there. I think it really depends on the person and it depends on their goals and what they like. But a lot of people have aspirations for how they're going to look like when they're jacked. But lean is really baked into that. Because if you make somebody jacked, but they have like 25% body fat, they just kind of look fluffy. But then you know, they're in the gym lifting crazy weights and you're like, Oh, that's muscle. I had it. I didn't know. So if you get lean first, every version of lean outside of like just completely emaciated thin. Is a good look. And once you get lean, not only is it healthier to bulk because you're not getting super over the fact, because if you start not lean and you bulk, I can get really not lean. And that's not good for your health. The entire time you're start lean and then you go when you bulk and you end pretty lean. And so even at the top of your bulk, you're not like disgusting looking, which I've done like about a hundred thousand times. It's not fun. And also you can have this process where you see your body changing in the mirror, because you're still lean enough to see the muscle shapes changing. So like, I knew my delts are bigger. I could tell. So if you start at a pretty high body fat, and then you bulk from there, you can't tell anything. And then later you have way a ton of fat to pull off, couldn't come with loose skin, all other stuff. You could just diet for months and months and months and months. And then you're just okay regular. And you have to take a break and then diet again. And so there is something the idea that if you want the physique to look awesome right away and have an awesome physique journey. And you're kind of like a little skinny fat. I would say, I would say I would amend Greg's advice in one way. Start by just recomping for like one to two years. Like you just maintain your body weight, eat plenty of protein, good healthy foods and train with weights pretty hard. You're going to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time for like literally two years. And then getting lean as a matter of maybe losing just 10 pounds and then you're goddamn jacked. And then you do the regular said advice where you stay relatively lean and you keep going up and up and up. I don't know if this is Greg's logic, but to me, having coached a bunch of people when people say they want to get more jacked and you convince them to get leaner first. They love the look. And then they getting jacked is really fun because they're lean and getting jacked. But if they're like, dude, I just want to put on muscle. I don't care about lean. A lot of them will come up to you three months later and be like, Hey, man, I look pudgy. What the You're like, you asked for this. And they're like, I didn't see that it would it would require this. It's a psychological super psychological. And it's physical too because the more excess fat you gain the worst. So it's good to get a little leaner to get yourself some runway for the bulk. But the psychology is a big thing. Most people, that's how they're going to want to play. Because he's freshen our minds. How is your relationship with Greg? Like you have a relationship with Greg. You guys have one of the longest standing just like internet, not beefs, but just like video punch this that like, do you want to have a relationship with them? I don't think we do because it's I mean, the last one is the last time I made content about Greg. You don't, I mean, it's more of them. Like Greg just launches missile after missile after you launch a bunch from this podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Greg has a job to do. It is to make as much money as possible on YouTube. Greg doesn't care who he talks about. He talks only about the people that will get the most clicks and the most views. This is not my suspicion. This is Greg to set literally telling me and anyone else who will listen. This is how he runs his YouTube channel. I would love to feel honored by all the attention I get from Greg. But the reality is just because I'm popular. And if I fall off tomorrow, Greg will never make another video about me again. It's just an attention machine thing. It's just doing a job. Well, I told Greg. I was like, Hey, just let me know we're filming with Mike today. And I was like, if you have any questions, submit them. And Greg sent some questions over. And so I think it'd be really funny if we got you to react to a couple of these questions. You claim to be healthy, but yet you have not posted your blood work. What reasons do you have for not posting your blood work? And do you plan to do so in the near future? Uh, I understood that is I need to make a video about Mike's blood work. I need money. Mike, make a video so that I can say your blood work is fake. If it's too good and talk about how you're going to die if it's too bad. There's my answer. So you wouldn't do it. No, I'll do it eventually. I'll do some blood work eventually. Um, what's holding you back from posting blood. People who watch our YouTube channel don't care a ton about me as a person. They care a little bit more about getting some good advice about training and diet and having a few laughs along the way. We've a and B tested this out of this. The talk, the incessant focus on my particulars of my life and my goings on and my training and my surgeries is like there was a moment where I had that peak of crazy internet popularity. Everyone gets that. And then they go back to something normal during that peak. It seemed like there was interest in me. I never got it because I don't think I'm that interesting. And so now we know for a fact that the stuff that does well on the channel is like people are learning and they're laughing a little bit. They love it. Stuff that does the best for us long term, short term, everything. Me posting my blood work, not either one of those categories. And so it's kind of like we might do it at some point. I'm probably going to get a really extensive blood work here in like the next few months when I'm super lean. And on more steroids than usual to be like, look, how fast am I dying? That might do. Well, if we thumbnail title it appropriate. It's compelling. But like, there's no, there's no real impetus for that. I have tons of blood work I could publish from years before and stuff. It's probably pretty good. Some bad stuff on there. But what's the worst that's on there? My HDL will probably my good cholesterol be pretty low because of the steroids, but my total cholesterol is probably going to be really low. My blood pressure is low on it. Speaking of steroids. This is the next question. Didn't as you know that steroids are taking years off of your life that they're horribly dangerous. Why do you continue to use them? Why do you think that you right now are addicted and do you ever see a time? Your future, when you would be willing to stop. Greg is like a terrible lawyer where like he's interrogating someone is like, where were you on the night that you murdered Francine? Yeah, so I mean, how do I answer something like that? I do an intelligent, calculated decision about taking steroids and I'm comfortable with the risk trade-offs. And that is what it is. But I don't think I'm addicted to steroids. I take them very reluctantly. They're not fun to take. And then we have one last question here. I've recently read your book, The Aesthetics Revolution. And he even said the surprise to hear that you think that we could eventually achieve the bodies, the physiques of our dreams. Even if we could, do you actually think that this would make you or anyone else happy? We're a philosophical question. I just wish he was smarter. What do you wish he asked you? Nothing. I don't want to talk to him. Is there a question that he could have asked you that you would have said that's a great question? Hey, Mike, why in real life am I nice to your face and look down when you look me in the eyes? But on the internet, I posture like I'm confident. That'd be a real good question for Greg Daskney. Well, I have a great, that'll Greg, you're welcome, by the way. That'll be a three video series. Mike has retails but heard of him. Can I, I'll try to answer that question. People who look better over time dependably become on average someone happier. It's not a huge thing, but it's a decent thing. Some people become way happier from looking better. Most people become a little bit happier from looking better. Some people become no happier and some very small fraction, but real fraction of people become less happy as they look better. And so you have this kind of rainbow, right? This average distribution of happiness than the mean of which is like substantially happier. And so I think as people embody more and more of what they want to look like, we just can expect people to be like much happier, but not in a psychotic way, but like significantly happier on average, super, super straightforward. So if you think that, or if, you know, your experience has been that when you meet Greg, he sort of looks down or he doesn't make eye contact or is it too completely different personality? He's very friendly to you in person. Would you be open for us, Gram and I to host a conversation with both you and Greg, if we could get Greg to agree to it. Well, of course you'll get Greg to agree to it. Do you think he has anything better to do? But it would be really interesting to see like how that would go. If in person, you guys are totally fine and nice to each other and kind. And like for an actual sit down, I think a lot of people would love to hear that. I think of you entertaining educational. Yeah, we've done like debates against each other and had cordial conversations on podcasts and stuff. Yeah, it's happened. We can do it again, right? Would you be open to? Yeah, of course. Oh, I would love to. I think that would be fun. I think it would be amazing. Yeah, it will be very nice. No skin in the game. Yeah. And I don't even, I don't even want it to get to. I don't have any skin in the game either. I don't even know what the game is. I don't even want to turn it into a debate. Like a lot of people, I think very comfortable with the debate. I mean, I think that we wouldn't be very good at moderating a debate transparently because I have no idea. Like you're too complicated. He's too complicated. But either way, I think it makes a fun content. Like you can even like, yeah, like rate physics or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sign me up. That would be fun. Yeah. Well, make sure to subscribe, by the way. So you don't miss this because this would be the meetup of the year. Yeah. Oh, jeez. Right. It's going to be eating for months after this. He's got a lot. So to close out the podcast, we have two final games. The first of which is a physique tier list. Jeff Nippert, phenomenal physique, us two. I once called him a short king and he instantly corrected me and said he was a short god. Ha. Makes sense. I yield. Okay. This is, um, obvious who is this this is six-time Mr. Olympia Chris Pumsoot okay one of the greatest fees of all time Greg now or Greg and his prime let's do prime Greg I'm Greg great physique Jesse James West excellent physique I don't know who this person is let me see Alex you bank oh yeah great physique it's a picture of space Michael hurt great physique and doesn't age Joey Swole maybe I don't I don't know what his physique looks like I'm gonna put him in B just because I just don't know what his physique looks yeah that's totally fair yeah of course you could also not rate them you know so if you don't oh if you don't know they're with their physique looks like then there's no one rated Joey Swole goes back no miss lean beef patty phenomenal physique in in real life phenomenal human being well Tennyson very good physique God yeah be here what makes him G tier and not asked here because Jesse James West I think you rated the higher so what makes Jesse James West better than well in terms of physique just my own personal vibe on flow yeah like Will's physique is amazing but Jesse has that kind of like his balance of arm and dealt and waist size just gets me like a little bit more salient these are not I'm not trying to make any claims here because the people who I don't know who they are I don't skip them okay are these the trend twins here there's yes two people great physics the trend twins I'll say yeah right there this is no dice yes though fine physique David Goggins wow compared to the folks on here yeah yeah yeah that's fair physique's not what he's known for sam soulek great physique Mike Israel prime yeah really yeah that's fair you think I should be lower no I don't want to say why you put yourself here that's interesting um granted I'm not very educated in the space yeah so like I am yeah like I mean when I see C tier a lot of shredded like yeah yeah yeah physics kind of look the same to me like lines though and stuff like will Tennyson has better float as physique than I do for sure and so like I can't and so so does no that's fair and I would say like you're low physique could be lower than theirs but if you're like fully toned and really toned now they look they look great those guys the rock for his age and profession as tier like he was in that movie like was it shazam or whatever the blackout a movie was his mouth like 50 years old he's like Superman but it's nuts some ones they don't age like the regular people all mister liver king okay Larry wheels he's up there with sam soulek and those guys I've never seen a picture of Derek more plates more dates in his full body yes large delts so I've seen liver king is a tough one you guys why is that you like his physique I I mean like in his prime he's completely shredded but not a very pretty physique so I'd probably say liver king is like in my realm somewhere yeah I'm gonna take a look at this he's on there okay the pamper you didn't rate Kayla pamper I don't think I know who that is I Wow I think I'm not not seen physique you've not seen okay interesting the last exercise is gonna be a very fun one okay so this we have ten pictures of biceps and you just guess who it is from the picture of their bicep okay I'm very good at this with also so is Jack do you think that you're gonna do well at this probably not so you just all you have to do is scroll down and it will take you to the next slide Arnold Schwarzenegger yeah that's gonna say immediately no clue how do you call him it's an odd angle yeah that was a tricky one Mike Spencer a yeah there you go Dorian yeah nice Greg to set man wow how was it really good no clue Jake color really white what's the face it's just don't have you don't know Jeff Nippert interesting I wouldn't suggest that is a really bad picture tale is this is not a Jeff Nippert any justice what are you laughing at I don't is this yours or something I don't want Jack Selby why did you laugh when you saw a picture of my bicep it's the paleness oh wait can I see it and the and the and the armpit hair that is like one of these is not like the other that's the photo you know that's a good looking art that's the photo that's the photo that's hilarious no clue I'm real there's three you have like three biceps I have to look at that he does have a sleeper bill no it's it's that was edited it's he doesn't have three biceps that was that was too but he does have he does have great biceps like he's actually pretty yeah it's impressive I'm impressed either way thank you man number 10 doctor Mike Israel not too bad not yeah that's pretty good it's it's weird isn't it like if you um somebody who's not affiliated with physique sport at all watched me do that to be like what the fuck is wrong with it do you know these people know that yeah a bunch of people would do just as well yeah yeah I was watching like Instagram Reels of people at the gym being able to guess every single person like this is just like I guess from an outsider's perspective really funny because you're you're able to identify a man by their bison yeah it's like I wonder how like if we I actually was going to do a nipple test for you I was going to pull up like five nipples of men and then see if you could oh that's Arnold's like and if like that just illustrates how ridiculous it is how well people know these bodies yes I think the nipple test most people would fail because when well I speak only for myself when I'm looking at bodies I've spent a lot of time looking at magazines and Instagram pictures you look at people's bodies there is like two ways to look at them one is you let the holistic hole hit you and you just vibe on it and that's when things like shorter to waste ratios matter a ton we're just like well like this is so much there like Jeff Nippurg when he hits like a side chest pose if you guys in editing put up a Jeff Nippurg's pose is like pretty yeah his waist is like this big and his arm is huge that's the vibe but then you can do a piece by piece analysis also where you look at their delts you look at their triceps shape you look at their bicep peak that's how you get to memorizing people's muscle groups like the Ronnie Coleman super crazy double bicep peak like that's hard to miss that was a me being a dummy and that was a trippy angle but like it's just you just know it and the Arnold that's at that photo of Arnold is actually a classic photo of him and like mountain range in California and exactly what that photo is just crazy yeah you see I think you stare a lot of bodies when you're in physique sport and yeah like you just like it's like I guess it's like seeing a door panel you know how you're like yeah I'm sure we're going to do a testicle test but we figured for YouTube it just wouldn't work it wouldn't work also I need to get the thing to feel it blindfolded and you just like why that test so do you have any questions for us I have a question for you guys have you ever had someone on the podcast who you ask about their financial strategy and what they tell you while they tell you it you're in the back of your head being like oh my god you are illiterate in your people bankrupt yeah for sure yeah but you kind of know that going in yeah do you - Oh yeah, yeah, you could tell. - The influencer people or whatever. - Oh yeah, yeah. - I don't want to call Sophie Rain illiterate and I don't wanna say that she's gonna go bankrupt. She was extremely nice. - Oh my God, she used a person's name. This is my smell. - I'm sure she's gonna be incredibly successful - Like it learns to read. - Like the thing that threw me off, she makes only fans content. But she's made over a hundred million dollars as her claim that she's made up on all this. - Oh, yeah. - Like the number one earner is what she's claimed. - And a lot of people claim various versions of that. - Exactly, yeah. So I'm also not the expert where I can actually validate her claim, but she showed us a page and I want to see a taxer to truly put my stamp of words on that. - I asked her, "Hey, what is your net worth?" 'Cause she was saying, "Oh, I don't really spend that much money." Like if you've made a hundred million dollars over the course of a few years, how much of it could you really have spent, right? - All of it. - You can go to debt, but you have to have a full time job of spending money and then some to actually chip away. This is so much money. And that's her, "What's your net worth?" And then she said, "What did she say between five and 20 million dollars?" And then I was like, "Broad range." I was like, "How do you have such a broad range?" - First of all, and second of all, why would it be so low if you've made a hundred million? And she was like, "I don't really know." And I was kind of blown away by like, you're working so hard, like you're working a lot and you're like doing all of these things to what end? You know what I mean? You're passionate about the work and that's why you're doing it or it's because you want to make a lot of money. And if you want to make a lot of money, why do you not even know how much you have? - Preach. It to me is personally painful. When people who are riding the fame wave, especially in a way that's timed to how their body looks or whatever, like adult film stars or people who are on only fans or models, when they're not square in the way every penny for a rainy day, during their prime, it's just like, it's so tough. I just was at another podcast, had some talks with some folks. One young man there was a manager for a few very top tier only fans girls. So I was like, "Well, questions, questions." And I was like, "How are they investing their money?" And he more or less was like, yeah, not a thing. It's like, man, you're 26 years old, you're in your prime, you're making crazy money. How do you want to live your life at 31? Do you want to see the livestream numbers be a fraction of what they used to be? Do you want to see the checks coming in be and a fraction of what they used to be and have nothing to show for it? Or do you want to have 10 million under conservative management and like your finance guy says, you will never have to go to work again. Both of those are very realistic. And it really hurts me to see people or making enough money that they can really invest it. Just frivolously spending it away on stuff that like again, remember my answer to the question of worst and best ways to spend money? So many people just do that cars thing. They get the crazy exotic car and they get another exotic car and then another exotic car and it's like, you're just burning money away. And it's fun, it's awesome. Drive all the exotic cars you want. But like, what's tomorrow gonna look like? My number one motivation is for making money and just overworking myself to do so is I'm never really interested in being poor again. Been really poor, wasn't fun. Would not recommend out of 10. And so when people are in a position where they're making a lot of money, I'm just really scared for them when they're like, come back slide into poverty again and I, I mean, there's literally like with rappers and stuff and athletes, it happens all the time. Like you were like on record labels and covers and you were making crazy hits and you were making millions of dollars. And then like six years later, you live in the hood again. How does that feel? What do you guys think? How does that feel to be like, how do I used to be in a mansion? And now I'm making rent month to month. I would have, I would be beside myself. I wouldn't be able to do it. That's what we do what we do. I'm passionate about trying to teach people about, it's not how much you make, it's how much you save. So literacy. Well, my heart says there you go. How's your doing God's work? Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you guys for watching. If you've made it up until this point, means the world, we would not be here without you. I really appreciate the flexibility by the way. Like I literally found out you're in Vegas this morning. You're like, yup, I'm free at five. Let's film at six. I was so happy to hear, and everything went perfectly. So I'm really grateful for that. I appreciate you guys right back, it was amazing. Thank you. And by the way, for all the channel members, if you want to see next week's episode, it's already live for you guys. So here's a little preview for you. Thank you so much and until next time. I watched Bequindfall 50% in a 10 hour period. And I was on the couch curled up in a ball and like saying to my now wife, I think our net worth might go to zero today. Bitcoin is a resilient asset that is really serving as global insurance. And so any time that there's chaos in the world, there's going to be people who run to Bitcoin. In one sentence, what is your strongest argument for Bitcoin? They will never ever stop running money. There's two assets you need for the future ahead of tours. Bitcoin and AI, is it too late to buy Bitcoin? Bitcoin is going to continue to go up for the rest of our lives because the politicians are going to print money for the rest of our lives. So do you think then meme coins are bad for the overall market of Bitcoin? If you were to take one guess at who Satoshi is, who would you say? (upbeat music)