The Fintech OG Series: Michelle Tran and Sasha Pilch

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And our final two episodes will have two men on them instead, but also great guests, and I'm super excited for it. But thank you so much for joining us. We have Michelle Tran and Sasha Pilch. If you listen to Twiff and read our content, you have definitely seen Sasha. She does, are this month in FinTech podcasts where she gets some amazing guests, executives at different FinTech companies, investors, et cetera. And you guys, you started New York City FinTech women together, right? Is that how you met? Or how did you guys meet and give me a little bit more about your background and how that came about, too? Yeah, we-- oh gosh, I haven't heard of the year, Sasha. It's my knees going now. Nine years. I was going to say 2017, yeah. And I remember I did it with you guys during COVID for FinTech today. I was one of the featured people. So I was like full circle. Full circle. No, it's definitely come a long way since we met. So Sasha and I met at the very, very first NYC FinTech women. So like, dialing it back, I was working at BlackRock. I was leading our FinTech strategy. But this was like early when robot advisors were still like the hot new thing. And they were-- Because you were into like ETFs and stuff when you were ever-- Yeah, so I was like, yeah. --in ETFs and the Ishers business. And this is when all the robot advisors were using Ishers ETFs. And so we're like, ooh, we need to get into this business. But I was going to a ton of FinTech conferences, a ton of FinTech meetups. And you know the story, right? It's like full of guys. There was no one to find. So literally just paid $80 on Meetup.com. I don't even know Meetup.com exists more. But paid $80 on Meetup.com. The name, Women in FinTech was available. So I was like, I'll just put NYC in front of it. So that's how it started with NYC FinTech women. And then found a bar that would host us. And it started raining in New York. I was like, oh, great. No one's coming. But then magically Sasha walked in the door. And it was an amazing union from the very start. But amazing. Wait, what Sasha, the only one that came then? We had one 16 women. So one out of 16. But it was pretty cool. Yeah. I'm going to have meeting. Larissa there. And a lot of people that ended up being the committee and doing a lot of work for the organization building it to what it is today. And something I don't think I've even told you, Michelle. But when you lived in Hong Kong, did you go to any of these women made ups as well? No, I never did. I mean, Hong Kong's such a different beast from New York. But I never went to any of the-- it was like never in my purview until I got to New York and was going to all these like FinTech. Because I think being an asset management, you just know that it's just very male, heavy, male dominated in Hong Kong, you're wearing three-piece suits and 90 degree humidity. Yeah. Yeah. The reason I bring that up is my dad. He's still living in Hong Kong. And so I was desperate to move overseas and expand my career. And when I went there, I went to a women's networking event. And there's a woman friend that ran that. And she knows you as well. And I just-- I've never been around to telling you that. I know, friend. She's-- It's a different together. Yeah, she's-- I'm brilliant. Yeah, very helpful. Yeah, she's great. Awesome. I love that. Well, outside of New York City FinTech women and Sasha outside of doing this week in FinTech's podcast, tell me a little bit more about your guys' backgrounds, how you got into FinTech. And why you're still here today. What's kept you? Yeah, so I've been in financial services my entire career. So I started at BlackRock for 10 years. I've been at a number of different WALTEC and financial services FinTechs. And how I got into FinTech very specifically-- well, BlackRock and Larry Fink will say that they are the original FinTech with the Latin platform, way back when before it was called FinTech. And essentially, that's true. They were providing a way for data to be collected in all financial transactions, services data. But I was really fortunate to have a global career with BlackRock, with the Ice Shared Business going from San Francisco to Hong Kong, which took me to New York, and which was the FinTech start. I remember my boss pulled me aside in Hong Kong, and she was like, look, something's happening in the US. And do you want to go back? I was like, no, not really. I love Hong Kong. I get to go to Vietnam in an hour. I get to go to Tokyo for the weekend. And I was there for two years. And it was amazing. We'd wake up on a Thursday and be like, should we go to Ho Chi Minh, or should we go to Tokyo? I don't know. But it was-- something told me that this was a really cool start. It was something new and innovative. And so we moved to New York. And that was when I was more formally into the FinTech space. And so we created a group-- that was 2014, 2014, 2015. So that was when that really started. That's when I came back. And then I've just been part of a number of awesome FinTech firms, like Apex Clearing, which helped a lot of the robot advisors and digital brokers, and was at Bestfall, which raised Series E and taking over their time and space. And now what I'm doing with my love of startups and FinTech is very focused on helping a lot of firms go to market, figuring out what is their commercial strategy, and getting them off. I love building. I love working with builders at the end of the day, but really helping them figure out how to get into market and then also for firms to figure out how to scale. A lot of firms have a struggle with that. They think they can take over the world. It's a lot of a process and build out. So it's been amazing. And fortunately, that I get to go back to New York on a regular basis. I'm not there anymore, left during COVID, as people shift it around. But I'm in the Bay Area, which is also amazing, since we have a lot of women in FinTech activity out here too. Thank you for waking up so early to do this podcast, and I appreciate it. I was wondering that. I was like, OK, since she lives in the Bay Area, but she visiting New York, or does she go back and forth between the two places? Right. Yeah, I just got back to New York on Wednesday. Are you still at least slightly on New York time zone then? Or no? I never know anymore what time zone I'm on. I just keep going. But if you guys are making up, a kid would have welcomed me up. So someone would have-- Michelle is a superwoman. She does all of this and has full kids. So how she sleeps? Get two more, and you can be the next emelin Shaw and Matt Harris. You're good. They've got-- Well, I told my husband, let's do it. But no, that's-- that shop has to flow. Well, I think Matt Harris, part of the reason they have so many kids is because I believe they did IVF at some point, and with a surrogate, and both his wife and the surrogate got pregnant within like four weeks of each other. It's wild. We were-- That's happening a little lately. Crazy. Crazy. Sasha, give us more about your background as well. And how did you hear about this event where you're like, you know, yeah, I'm going to go to this little happy hour and see what's going on with Fintech women. Yeah. So I spent the first 10 years in my career working for big gangs, like Simola to Michelle. I'm Australian, so I worked at CBA in West Park, and lived in London, worked at City in Royal Bank of Scotland. And at the end of a decade of that, I was so ready to not work for a 50,000-plus organization and to work for a fast moving startup. I was hearing all about Fintech and wanted to jump on that wave, but there was nothing in Australia. Australia is not really broken. We have four banks. And so there wasn't a need. There is a need in the US. And I was on a holiday, a vacation, and I was still working at the bank in Australia. And I thought-- I was in CBA, so close to New York, so I was like, I may as well stop in New York for a few days. And then I asked my boss in Australia, she's like, yeah, [BLANK_AUDIO] I got to New York, loved it, realized how huge the Fintech opportunity was and called my boss back the next day and quit. I thought at first you were going to say you were literally in New York for four days, heard about this event, met Michelle and like that's how I asked her. No, she met me. Yes, similar, honestly, like I knew I needed to get a job really quickly. I had like 60 days as a tourist and I needed someone to sponsor me. So I went to every networking event that I possibly could and that's how I met someone that introduced me to Lauren who would later take a chance on me and hire me at Quovo when she was leading sales. I didn't even know this. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that. She basically has created my life. Lauren is the reason that you're in Fintech. Amazing. Sasha's the reason she's in Fintech. I was lucky enough to get to work with her a gazillion times and still. Well, I guess Lauren's the reason you discovered Fintech. So yeah, like I was I was very much wanting to get a role in Fintech and I liked Quovo because it was a platform that serviced so many other Fintech. So I was like, this is the best job I can get because their API connects to Bank of America and Wells Fargo and Chase and then every Fintech that needs connectivity to a bank, which is pretty much all of them would use Quovo. So I was like, this is my dream job. And fortunately Lauren took a chance on me. I had zero sales experience and I had a close deal in my life and she said yes. And then I was like, okay, crap, I need to build a network really quickly. And I want to do that with something that doesn't feel like work because I'm already doing this grinding job working under Lauren and Lil Pondham who are like very. I love Lil. He's hilarious. He's hilarious. And he's also a very strong leader that pushes you to be yourself as does Lauren. So I was like, okay, I need to find a way to build a network that is something to do with what I'm passionate about because then it won't feel like work on top of these 12 hour days that I'm doing already. And when I saw Michelle's meet up, I was like, perfect. Like I'd been to the one in Hong Kong. It was so helpful. I'd work for Big Bang's for 10 years and saw my mail counterparts going to golf day and get a connection that led to a promotion. So I was like, I wanted to work with Michelle to build out this Fintech Women Network in New York. And after that first event, I was like, can I work with you? And she said yes, luckily. And it's really grown from there. So now we have 16,000 members across the US, chapters in San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Miami. We've hosted over 200 events in New York. We did one last night. We should do what we should get a chapter in Austin. We needed to have a chapter in New York. Especially when we were in Cameron Pake and at Resty even like so many great women in Austin. And I will say remember when Sasha came up, she's like, can I help you? And I was like, with what? I don't know what I'm doing. It all started so organically. And I think that just spoke and it built up so fast too because of the need in the market that people really needed to find a community. And so it was such a great time when we started off and got to work with so many amazing companies too that wanted to help us out. And the thing that was like the most surprising was how many males a year is wanted to ask to a host an event in their office. And we've always, from the beginning, made this a group that's completely inclusive. We want male allies to be members because Michelle and I truly believe that that's how we're going to make change and we don't want to be just a bunch of women complaining in the corner because that's not helping anyone. It's been such a absolute pleasure and joy to watch you too. My friends build this amazing community. And you've both been so articulate and thoughtful about trying to really create opportunity for women, community for women. And I would love to hear how you think things have changed and financial services over these nine years. And yeah, where do you think we are now? Well I think so much has changed. And I think one, Fintech is when we started Fintech was a nascent term and it's no longer a nascent term. Fintech really is everything and I think that's been a major shift in how people view Fintech. It was always there. It just had a name and people need to figure out how to use it. And where we are today is that there's been so much advancement, right? Even in the past year with how everything is deployed using AI. And there's just been a lot of change too in terms of support for women in Fintech in general. It's been really cool to see, like Asasha said, all these companies, those are founded by male CEOs and others who want to support women in Fintech and it's not just startups. It's the AWS is the world, it's NASDAQ, it's NIC, it's Bank of America. So it's all these major corporations who see the opportunity to bring women in the fold in a more intentional way. I think it's even more important now, right? In our current environment where sometimes DEI or women are not as out there or not as accepted perhaps, that we put even more effort and really helping to amplify and empower women. So I use a word, a lot, amplification. And to me, that's part, that's like a word of verb in our mission statement. So our mission statement formally is to empower, connect and promote women in Fintech. And so that promotion, that amplification, getting the name out there, shouting the, you know, everyone's name out there for everyone to hear is such an important part of how, you know, how we can help impact this industry. And I think that's changed a lot over time too, is, you know, how people are talking about women in Fintech. And it's even more important now that women talk more about women in Fintech, it's given everything that's happening with AI. So that's that's, you know, how I think it's been changing. Yeah. I was just listening to Sasha, like you took a detour, you know, not a detour necessarily, like you took a moment and went into VC because you were so committed, like, you know, also just like funding female founders. And I want your perspective, but also with that lens too, of like, it does seem like there's maybe more of us in leadership positions and founder roles. Yeah, absolutely. I think that when Michelle and I were forming this group and it was dying to get traction, we would often get us to speak at conferences that were usually like all men on the panel. So like, we'd be a good person to walk in, like, and do the MC or whatever. And I did this opening remarks at this Fintech retreat in San Francisco that Alex Pellan put on. And I'd written, like, what I wanted to say, and he came back to me, he was like, can you say something more? Like, can you actually say something that is like, maybe going to make a change? And so I was like, okay. And so I really thought about it. And because we had so many members for Fintech, women, people always saying to me, like, why is it that we don't have that many women that eventually backed in Fintech? Like, why is the number only 2% and then unfortunately went down to 1% a year after that? And there are, there are tons of reasons why, like women have 80s that takes us out of the workforce for a significant amount of time. Generals, 2000 years of history, like, all the billion dollars a year as we've seen men and that creates unconscious buyers. So those are things that we can't change. But one thing that we have control over is how many women are investing in companies. How many female visas we have that have authority at the investment committee table. And follows on to more female founders getting venture funding and more women taking board seats on these companies. And then that trickles down into seeing your leaders being hired at these companies. And that was the message that I gave it that retreat. And fortunately, it was role-received. And Finn Capital took a chance on me and hired me as a principal on the investment team, which I'm so grateful for and was incredible experience. And even though that's a B2B FinTech firm investing in anyone that's a great founder that's going to deliver a great return for the LPs, I had a personal mandate to invest in as many women as I could. And during those two years, I did seven deals and had five female co-founders across them. So even though that's like not that many, it still kind of moves the needle a little bit, unfortunately, because the number is so low. So that actually want to ask you to on that front. I feel like part of it is also in Pastor Syndrome a little bit. The way I hear men talk about how good they are at what they do and their job and everything. Whereas for me, my husband will come home and talk about how he's crushing at work, etc. And then I'll be saying things like, I have no idea why people even pay me to do what I do. Am I really qualified to do this? And then I'll talk to a man, tell them what I charge, and you should charge more. Like what are you doing? And I'm like, this is just, and I feel I'm very much not alone as a female doing that. Did you notice that at all in pitches as well? Yeah, totally. Like I would say, these brilliant women get in front of investment committee and then just freeze up or. over-explain was like another common thing that would happen so much so that I did an event with Barclays that was focused on how to get VC conviction as a female founder because I felt that it was such a topic that needed to be addressed and within that we talked a lot about how like man pitching will just say this is the start or this is what my idea is and then stop but then women kind of feel like they have to like keep going to over-explain which then like puts less confidence in them as a CEO so like that's definitely one learning that I took away another key learning was a lot of women were coming to me with a direct consumer idea and that is great but you also need to keep the VCs what they're looking for if you want to be venture backed and so that was like another key part of the message which was like look at beta beef intact like even if you're drawn to a direct consumer idea if you can have like a beta-beat go-to-market strategy then that's what VCs want to see because the CAC is lower the scalability is higher and you're more likely to get investors that makes sense yeah so talk me to we've talked a lot about your guys's path and there's obviously been you know you guys have done very well gotten leadership positions at a number of companies etc. talk to me through some career highs and lows and you know how you got through those lows how you use them to help fuel your growth and continue to stay in the space and continue to expand on your career. Do you want to go for a special? Sure let's see career low you know we're all a few of us are in you know go to market positions where we've been ahead of sales, ahead of enterprise and those are always really hard roles. The average 10 year for startup CRO is 14 months because as you think about you know someone that goes in who leads sales at a startup either they're transitioning from founder-led sales so it's really hard for the founder to let go of you know their their baby and that mechanism and you know I would have to say you know one of my lows that I had was really struggling through some organizations where it was you know a founder-led transition and getting that transition right is is always difficult right making sure that you're working with a lean team there's a lot of expectation right you have some big goals to hit because your VC back you need to hit you know multi-million dollar goal but there's no infrastructure and you know so those are I think one of my which is a harder time just really figuring out right like how do you make that work and I'll say you know Lauren's like the queen of making that work and I learned from her I need you to I'm like 15 months so on borrowed time but there's been like so many career highs too from winning multi-million dollar deals and helping and really helping people so for you know a lot with companies I look at I look at to say okay what are they doing at the end of the day like are they are they trying to help people and that's kind of like what I've been looking at in financial services so like black rock at the end of the day they were really helping you know firemen safer retirement right when I was at Vasswell we're really helping small businesses create retirement and steady financial features for employees who don't typically have that opportunity and so for me that that was a huge high was one you know helping all these individuals really help create more financial stability through a lot of these awesome deals which you know are always fun to win but I would also say like another career high is just helping all the like working with such amazing people in my career and then when we talk about networks and why and we say and my safe and tech women you know continues to help the community it's because we're so adamant about making sure people build really strong networks and networks that matter right so it's not just meeting you know everyone that you can meet but really finding the people that that can help you finding the people that you connect with but also staying in touch with them right like you can meet a thousand people but it's really building these deep relationships and so that's been a really career high is like how do you build these relationships both internally and then externally or and then bridging it all together which I always do which has been a lot of fun I think like a law for me was you know Quero was such a fun success and then getting acquired by Platt was exciting and working at Platt was cool like it was the it company or kind of still is you know wait a man like you know they took us to Mexico on a treat and there was like true San Francisco like we got breakfast lunch in dinner like Google ask type vibes but after like some of the shiny things wore off a little bit I was feeling like I wasn't making an impact like I had when I was early at Quero and I really missed that like early stage and so even though that was low it led to a high which was getting the role at ramp as the first sales hire and 13th employee and it was awesome to be part of that early team because Eric's vision was like I want to be the top Fintech company in New York like the Stripe equivalent and he really delivered on that mission because ramp is just on fire today and so happy that it got to be part of that from a Fintech women perspective it was definitely a high to host our inspiring Fintech female awards at IEX and Ring the Bell there and Lauren was one of our winners and Julie too and then Nazdark and New York Stock Exchange seeing the women's photos up where the public companies usually are is just like such a moment and so I'm so happy that these women have a means to celebrate and promote their professional profiles so that's a real high quick example of that so I was talking to Anna Mahoney with edition wealth and she won inspiring Fintech females I forget which year but she was one of the faces on top of all the trading stations of the New York Stock Exchange and you guys have been there but when you walk in one is decorated for the holidays so there's a goose bumps already and you're at the most historic institution in New York City and your face is on top of all the trading stations splashed across New York Stock Exchange it is such a moment for these for these honorees and recipients of the NYC Fintech and Sparring I always miss out NYC Fintech women inspiring Fintech females but it's a tall I know that's why we call it IFF but she was that year that she won she was raising her series A and she was like because I was an an IFF recipient I was able to push through a series A fast word a few years later she's UBS is entrepreneur of the year and like I just love that story so much because it really speaks to like how important it is that we continue to scream these amazing leaders names and what they're doing from the rooftop and in any way that we can because that really is what propels it back to like Sasha's point of how do we get more female founders funded is that we just we need to know about them and then we also need people to invest in them. People are so incredible and such great community builders I would love to hear you know a tip from each of you on how to really do that like Sasha has this Encyclopedic memory that I will never gain access to and Michelle you you do such a good job of telling people like oh do these specific things you know like ask for something but like tell me tell us your one tip if it was just boiled down to one thing that you would do to build community. Who needs Hubsbot when you have Sasha Pills? I do I do use LinkedIn as my CRM but the way that I do that is like every time I meet someone when I add them I'll write like great me you at the Stripe event last night or whatever it is and then that jobs my memory to like as to how I know them but I think like that kind of stems from something Michelle told me to sorry if this is your one Michelle and I'm taking it but something that she started doing at our events was she would say during the closing remarks it's our goal for you all to me at least five new people and you can blame it on me or Sasha and so we would hear people going up to people they didn't know and saying oh you're my second person Michelle said I need to meet five so is it okay if I talk to you and I was like just such a great way of fostering networking. I mean it takes all the pressure off right like even though if you might be like the most outgoing person it's exhausting and sometimes it's scary to meet new people and so and so to take the pressure off to be like look someone else told me to do it so I have to do it and I'm going to blame them so and it's great. I think that that's one I think it's you know the community piece is all based on continuing to build the relationship over and over again so it's not just a one-time deal right you shake one handshake you meet them it's how do you continue to help each other and I think one of the things I absolutely love that my seepherntech woman is at work. all in it for each other. It's never like we're trying to get someone's back or whatever. We're all trying to be there to help someone either make a connection for a career purpose, to make a connection for a deal purpose. I was just talking to a number of women in San Francisco. They're like, "We need to go play golf." I was like, "Well, why don't we play golf?" They're like, "Because all the guys do." So we need to help each other learn how to play golf. So we can go spend five hours on the golf course with everyone else. I was like, "You know, you're so right. We do need to do that." I don't play golf just. I go to the driving range at best because I have cheap beers. But it's important to figure out how do we help each other in that. That's one of the reasons why I still look at ballet-bank when we were talking to them a couple years ago. They do a lot of golf events now with female founders. I remember at a retreat with them and one of the female founders who's a CEO, she was having her cup in her treat. They're like, "Oh, yeah, they're all playing golf tomorrow." We're like, "Well, what are you doing?" And she's like, "I'm just going to stay in the hotel and work." We're like, "No. Even if you don't play, go sit in the cart with them because guarantee they're going to talk about work at some point in a day." And you want to be part of that conversation. And so it's continuing to help each other figure out and navigate a fence to a lay life and career. And they keep on building those relationships over time. I would say, like, coming from New York to San Francisco too, you know, I've had to do that a couple times. And it's just people come out of the woodwork constantly. They're like, "Oh my gosh, this is an amazing community and we want to help each other." One question. I don't think Lauren and I have asked this one in the last couple of episodes, but it's one of my favorite ones. And feel free to take a moment to think on this too. What's something-- so you've also been in FinTech for around a decade. What's something that you thought would have been accomplished by 2026 but has not? And then what's another thing that's already been accomplished at some point that you thought would have taken longer than what it did? I would say for me, coming from a wealth management and asset management perspective, again, back to 2015 when all the betterment and all the robot advisors came out and everyone thought they were going to take over the world. But really what happened was a more of a hybrid approach. I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been more digital financial services out there. Like, there is a lot. Don't get me wrong. But I would think that-- especially in the 401k space and stuff, like, the ones that they give you at large corporate still suck. I was in that space for almost three years and they do suck. And that's why you have groups like Veswell, GuyLine, which was acquired by Gusto and Human Interest around because they just need better technology. But that's all tied to such a heavy regulated world. And so I do think at some point, like, well, in the other-- one thing betterment, and I'm telling you too, about that business, is like, they only evaluate the 401k program every few years at these large companies. So the sales cycle super long. And then if you just pick the same option that everybody else has gone with, there's something that's gone wrong. It's like, well, yeah, like Apple uses that one too. Like, of course, but if you pick a startup and then something goes wrong, it's like, well, wait, why did you pick this person then? Oh, totally. I mean, there's a lot of bias around the new because there's a lot of old, but the old doesn't mean that it's innovative and new. I think one of the things that-- well, I think we'll see in the future too, especially with AI, is how people can get more invested sooner and with more money. And I think that's-- it's always been my mantra, right? Like, in order to create a really stable financial future, you need to be invested in a number of different ways. And I speak to people-- and women too, who are like, you know, at startup Twitter, and they have-- they're not putting money into their phone with K, or they're not investing personally. I mean, that's just a miss opportunity from a compounding perspective. And so really, like, I want to see that tip more so into getting more people invested in a better way. I think there's still this perception that, like, oh, I need to have, you know, $10,000 in order to invest. And like, really, don't. My kids have investing accounts, and they're required to look at their investing account once a week. And they're like, oh, should I get McDonald's or should I get Disney or should I get Roblox or whatever? And I'm like, what age did you start doing that? I want to do that at some point. 23. 30. Yeah, probably like a six. Lauren, you're fairly close to that then. And I told them they're not allowed to take money out. And whenever they buy something, they have to put 30% into their investing account. And then-- so I'm also creating them to think about taxes because taxes is, you know, so much of our lives. But I'm just starting to get them to be like-- and they look at their account, and I think Roblox did really well this year. They're like, oh, I made $10. So it's like, yeah, and you only put five in. So look at that. But I hope that starts more. I love that idea. For me, in terms of like what I thought would have been accomplished by now that hasn't, it is really like these really inefficient legacy things. So for example, banks today still have thousands of hours wasted every week with people calling saying, I've had fraud on my card, but it's actually just a weird merchant name that they didn't recognize. So I think that's very solvable, like companies like Spade, that offer that. And I think that's like a no brainer, like why isn't everyone doing that? Because it's such a huge cost to-- and it's such a waste of people's time calling and being like, it's been fraud when it's actually just a legitimate transaction, especially as fraud gets worse with AI and deep fakes and things that are actually what the fraud team should be looking at. And that's a way to what I think has happened that I wouldn't have even dreamed would happen by now, which is since the emergence of Gen AI, how incredible things are and like a lot of Fintech companies that were the leaders are now obsolete, unfortunately, because Gen AI has just really changed the game. One in particular is a company that I recently angel invested in called Lila. Fantastic, Femal CEO, and they offer continuous compliance monitoring. So no more of the compliance team, like worrying about, oh, are we still within the license of all 50 states for money transfer? Is our banking 20 page agreement still compliant? There's no need for humans to have to like weave through all of those things when AI can do it on a 24/7 basis. So that's something that I'm excited about. So she got to tell us about these investments. Because if there's one thing that I feel like I have really taken from you and Michelle too, is that we have to talk to each other about these kind of things. I'm not really giving you a hard time about that one in particular. I feel like we're heavily invested in a lot of the same things. But to Julie's point about the maybe imposter syndrome being more prevalent amongst women, I think the great ways that you folks have shown me how to really deal with that is by talking to your friends and having that group of women that you can call and you can say like, do you think this is fair? Should I be asking for more? And ideally, there's a man or two in that group too that you trust and that values you in the way that they would value anyone. And yeah, I just don't want to not mention that you guys have been such proponents of that. Yeah. And it's good. It's a good point. It's like really the next phase that Michelle and I've been talking about fourth in tech women. You know, like we do the events, we host the awards, we feature a woman every Friday and helping women become angel investors and be comfortable with sharing deal flow and talking about investments is really the next thing that we're looking to do. And the other thing is like even being even being an LP in a fund, it's not like you need tens of thousands of dollars to do it. Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of options as well that we are going to be highlighting soon in terms of our members that do offer ability for women to be LP's and learn from that perspective. I think women are just afraid to ask sometimes, right? They don't want to see like they don't know. I haven't had a single woman ask me for an investment as a being capital scout either. It's always been men that that asked. So just I think what like the very bot like foundational step is just making awareness and education. So then it's you know, similar to like golf, right? Like you don't want to get out there on the course because you don't know what you're doing. And then you don't want like an idiot when you get out there. And so it's really starting with just teaching and like what do you need to know? And then giving them access. Totally. Knowledge and access. Very powerful together. I love that. Well, let's end on like prediction type saying what's most exciting for you in FinTech right now. There's so much going on. There's stable quinsers AI like all the things happening all at once. You know, over the next 12 to 18 months, what are you most excited about? I know it's hard to pick because we probably have like four that come to mind instantly. I mean, stablecoin is exciting. Like I just went to Miami during consensus and hosted a big event for one of my clients turn key that provides stablecoin wallet infrastructure. They've done obviously really well with the crypto native companies. But now there's so much interest from Goldman Morgan Stanley being why like it's pretty exciting that finally it's not just this crypto over. people and it's becoming more mainstream and it makes sense from an efficiency perspective to use stablecoins rather than swift and the traditional inefficient ways of moving money around the world from FX or Treasury use case. So I feel like that's pretty exciting. Mine's going to be a little bit boring but I think it's really exciting personally is and it's around AI and finance and wealth tech. I think how AI is going to transform all different areas of wealth tech from client service to compliance and essentially what that means is just making it easier for people to get good financial advice at the end of the day. So that's what I'm really excited because I've been working with a number of different clients who that's what they're building to right. There's just so much that you can do now with AI. I think what's to be seen is how it's regulated and how it's checked is come the next frontier especially when it comes to financial services and advisory but I'm really excited that it's helping people get better advice faster. Lauren what's most exciting to you right now? I do love that I actually think there's this moment where what Sasha said and what Michelle said is actually going to come together because the financial services that you can offer as a first party as the actual advisory firm but with the accounts I think is so much more powerful than like the days of oh you're doing this over here you should do it differently. You can't have an agent go change something in an account that you don't have access to and so I think with stablecoin infrastructure and the ability to have flexible accounts set up and creation and compliance like the the aperture actually just gets so much larger. And I'm excited about like bringing context of like financial data and foundational models to financial services. I think like financial services has been really really behind even in like BI tool adoption or like being able to answer simple simple questions or queries and I really love the work that we're doing at speed because I feel like we have the context on first party data that is missing and require to build a foundation model. And so like all the things the revolutes of the world are are doing and we're helping to empower and I love being a part of that moment. I think it will be just like those early quobot days of like you know this is kind of ubiquitous to create something cool and new and financial services and those moments are super special. I feel like it's a very exciting time to be where we are in our careers too just with everything going on. So I feel lucky to to be the age I am right now. The age we are and have friends like this. Exactly. Exactly. Well we still need to talk about the Austin chapter of New York City Centaiq Women. I have not made your list before so I was not invited to New York's talk exchange so I did so one year when I was a producer I was able I got to go down as the New York's talk exchange and be that producer for two days and it was around the holidays too so I was just like remembering all those things it was so awesome. But thank you so much for joining us you guys this was awesome and I especially I'm short notice in everything too I really appreciate it 7 a.m. now almost 8 a.m. on the west coast. I think the kids are starting to stir. Mind is set up so she's running around with a naked butt right now because of her dip. You have a standing invite to any of our holiday inspiring Fintechi Moulin.