The Fine Art of the Mystery Thriller with Alexandra Andrews | Booked, Blonde & Busy w/ Olivia Ponton

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Welcome to Booked Flawner and Busy because the hottest girls read, "I'm Olivia Ponson, and today we are here with one of the hottest authors on the market right now, the author of the fine art of lying, Ms. Alexandra Andrews." I'm so excited to have you today to talk about the fine art of lying because it's consumed my brain in so many capacities over the past two weeks. Thank you. That's so kind. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah. So, before we kind of get into it, I want to do the beverage of the day. All right. All right. And so, the fine art of lying is this very, like, rich woman art dealer kind of prestigious world. It's a little espresso martini. It is just coffee because it's 10 o'clock in the morning right now. And I was like, "I don't need to do all that." All right. Let's do it. Ugh. It's not good. That is nice and strong. Give me some blood. I might need some vodka then. A little bit of Bailey's out a little. So, I kind of want to go into first, like, who are you? Give the audience who isn't familiar with the fine art of lying, a little rundown of you. Um, who am I? Or, I wish I knew. Um, so, I grew up here in the city, which is why it was sort of fun to base this novel in the city. Um, I tried, like, 10,000 different careers until I finally just decided to try writing a novel. Um, and that happened about, gosh, eight years ago, I wrote, I started, who is Montyx in my first book. Um, and now, now this is sort of what I get to do, luckily enough. Um, I have two kids. I, my husband's also a writer. We live in Brooklyn where, like, the total cliche, um, yeah, that's the short version. So what's something that maybe not a lot of people know about you that is, like, super defining? I think growing up in New York City was super defining, to be honest. My friends that live up here, or that grew up here, I'm like, wow, you guys got some fire to you. I just, I love this city so much. And I think COVID really, like, exacerbated it. When everyone was leaving, I was just like, no, these are my people. This is my home. Where you really hyped up when the next one, oh my gosh. Really? Yes. That's what like, I went to a few, not the actual games, but like, uh, my friends and I went to, like, bars to watch the games and people were just going crazy, crazy. And I remember I was sick the day of the actual finals, but I was laying in bed and I just remember out like 1130, maybe, outside my window was just a boom, boom, boom, I was like, the next one. They're just a never such a great team. I could start crying so much hard. Literally. So kind of, both of your characters are incredible liars. Do you think you're an incredible liar? Truly. I'm one of the worst liars. Okay. In the end. Me too. Me too. I think the kids were good people. That's what I'm saying. Because one of my friends is like, she says she's like the best liar ever. She can get away from, get away with anything. And I'm like, I don't know if that's a flex. Yeah. So actually, this is a crazy story. When I, I was pregnant with my second child, like, right when COVID was like rearing up. And so my OBGYN called me at 5 in the morning and said they're about to start barring partners from the delivery room. Do you remember that? I think we met in. Yeah. The partners. But if you got up here in 30 minutes, I'll induce you. So we woke up my daughter. We raised uptown. And she was like, the only thing is you just have to tell the intake nurse that you can't feel a baby. I was like, are you kidding me? So I had to go in there and tell them, like, I can't feel a baby, which is like, you can't feel it. Like, you could feel it moving around towards the end and if you don't feel it for like six hours, there's probably a problem. And it was horrific. It was so horrific. They were like, how long has it been like, oh no, it was really horrific. I was like turning bright red was one of the worst moments. So that was the craziest lie that you've ever told me. I mean, it just made me feel like a really bad person and you don't go lie to a nurse. Like nurses are sane. And you're just sitting there and you're like, yes, please induce me right now. I know. And my husband had this suitcase. It's a really horrific. So when you were filling out the form, you were sitting next to your daughter and she told you to ask how being a mother has kind of influence being an author. She's such a narcissist. Every time I get my books published, she goes straight to the knowledge and she's like, there, right? She's wonderful. But actually, it's true. So I went before I became, well, gosh, I worked as a journalist for a while and then I fell into copywriting and I was doing copywriting when I was pregnant with my first child. And I just, I mean, it's good work. I love the people I worked with, but it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. I knew that. I always wanted to be a writer and I just wasn't doing it. And it was sort of like, okay, do I want my daughter to have this role model who never did what she wanted to do because she was like, too scared, too lazy, whatever. And that's what really made me do it because I didn't want her to like see me going through this job. I didn't want to care about, so that was kind of the kick in the pants I needed. That would really get you. It got really good. I mean, even thinking about that, I'm like, I'm 24, I'm nowhere near having children, but I'm like, hmm, what would they think about me? So the fine art of lying uses New York City as like a character in itself. Do you think growing up here, I mean, did that influence it at all? I think so. I mean, I grew up on the every side. I think my characters in the book are taken to an extreme of extreme wealth, extreme sort of snobbery and whatnot, which was not my experience growing up. I really didn't want to like, satirize it too much. Like, I just felt like low-hanging fruit and my mom lives there. My sister lives there. Like, my friends who live there. I didn't want to offend anybody, but it isn't really bizarre place. It's a real bubble. And when you're in it, you forget that like the rest of the world is not like this. And I just sort of thought it was like a fascinating world. I mean, as a writer, always sort of looking for extremes, well, I am at least. It makes things sort of interesting. And it's definitely, it's definitely a place of extremes. Do you think like any landmarks influenced it because I know you change all like the mocha or MOCA? Yes. Like, is that based on MoMA? Yes. When I first wrote it, it was MoMA. And I gave it to my husband. He was like, you can't do that. I was like, I can't. It's an awful. So is the art pieces or those also fake too? Some are fake. Some are real. I was trying to Google long fan and I was like, I know. I heard a lot of people which I kind of love. So originally, they were all real. All the artists were real. And Blake Webley, the like main artist, was actually Agnes Martin, who is an artist. I really love. And then this is such a like stupid logistical issue, but all of her canvases are huge. They're like six feet by six feet, five feet by five feet, a beautiful. But you couldn't steal one. So I needed a small version. And then I just decided to sort of make someone up and it was, was really fun actually. So then I like sprinkled in a few real guys, a few fake guys. It was just kind of like a fun little game for me. Yeah. Earlier that you started off as a journalist and then you kind of like mended over into writing fiction. Was there any like mentors that you had or I always see that like all. There's have their little like groups of authors that they kind of move around with and do little writing your treats. Is there anyone that like came to you or you went to for advice prior to publishing your first book? Um, that's a great question. Um, honestly, it was my husband. My husband was the only novelist I knew. I think he sounds terrible, but like writing a novel always seemed very out of reach for me. Like it was, I was way too intimidated. And then I made my husband. I was like, oh, this shut up can do it. You know, it's kind of like a normal person doing a thing that seems like super human. And he's like so supportive and urging. And so I was like, whatever, I'll just try it. And that's also why I chose the thriller genre because like, I don't know. I think that plot, like, gives you the scaffolding to work around. It's less like dependent on the beauty of the pros. And it just felt like a, I don't know, an easier undertaking. Um, but my husband was really the one who like talked me through like dialogue and just like the mechanics of it. Um, and he's read like. and one million versions of all my books. And then honestly, I was so lucky to get the age and I have Gen Joel because she does such incredible edits and she's an amazing editor. So it's basically the two of them who I mostly talking through with. - So you're talking about dialogue that you would give you advice for that. Do you think there's like a specific, like a right amount of dialogue in a book? Like do you ever think there's too much or not enough? - I don't because I think each book is different. And I just tend to write very dialogue heavy because I really liked, it's really fun for me and I can hear it in my head and it makes myself laugh. And yeah, I just have more fun doing that. Like honestly, I think coming from a journalistic background when I have to like describe a room that's fake, I just am like, what? I don't know what color the curtains are, I don't care. But that feels like work to me to like make that up. - And kind of stuff this thing. - But the dialogue comes very easily. - Okay, see, I'm a very, I love dialogue. I don't, like you're saying, I don't need to know what color the curtains are. - Right. - I get the vibe, I understand they're in New York City. Like I get it, I get it, that's what I was saying. Like it's a character itself, like you know, I love reading books that are based in New York because it's, I already have a specific version of it. - Yes. - When you were writing "Moddix" and did you have your second book like queued up that you were going to write about or you knew the general idea or what was that process like? - That process was awful. - Oh my God, I believe there was like a thing. Like the, I don't, the second book problem where people just like get blocked and it happened to me big time. It was also, it was COVID, I two young kids, like no school and no childcare. It was sort of a disaster all around. And I was trying to write the second novel and I just, I have, like it's, ideas just like come to me. It's pretty easy for me to come up with ideas. It's hard for me to commit to them. So I started honestly three different novels and like wrote quite a ways and then tossed them out. And I just like had no idea what to do next. And then, so I was thinking a lot about motherhood during that time and how like after when you have young children, like you lose your mind a little bit. Like you become someone who's very different from the person you thought you were. And I was thinking like what if you made a decision while like you were in this sort of state that really affected the rest of your life, but you're not actually like yourself at the moment and I was intrigued by that idea. And then I really like writing about like creativity. I think it's like very interesting the way, like the role of plays, especially in women's lives. And so that's sort of where the art came in. I went to the Met in like, oh gosh, it was like 2021. So New York was still really weird. Like subways were empty, the streets were empty. Everyone was masked. I think the museum had just opened and it was packed inside, absolutely packed. And it made me realize like, I don't know. I don't think any, well a lot of us didn't realize like that we needed this art in our lives until it was taken away so abruptly. And it really made me when I was there, like feel connected to like humanity, like the artist and the other people in the museum and the people in the portraits. Like it was very, it was very moving to me. And that's sort of when I started thinking about combining those two ideas, the art and the like sort of craziness after having a baby. - Very well, yeah, this was my first book that I ever kind of mixed in art within it. And I really enjoyed that because well, first of all, I've never read anything like that. Second of all, like I think that also plays a huge part of like the stakes maybe if that makes any sense with tying that into like the thriller component of this iconic piece being stolen in someone's house and it's just sitting on there, sitting on their wall. And I go to people's houses and I'm like, oh, you have a Monet, oh right, right. This is so normal when that is just not normal. So I liked that aspect of it. We're gonna get into the book in a little bit, but I have a lot of questions. - What do you like to read? - Honestly, I read a lot of literary fiction. I don't read a ton of thrillers. I don't know why, like it sort of just feels like my job and I don't want to do my job, but I'm not doing my job. Yeah, I tend to like find a writer I like and then just go like do the whole thing. So now I like, you know, I'm a little late to the game, but I just discovered Lillie King, so I'm doing like all her earlier books, which I think is really fun, like in Forria. And then, yeah, I did the same thing with Ishi Garo recently. I went like all the way back and read his early novels, which are just like so insane, like weirder than you would ever imagine. - What are you reading right now? - Actually right now I'm reading another Lillie King. I want to say it's the pleasing hour. I haven't heard of it before. - I think it was her first novel. - Oh wow. - Yeah. - So you would just read like a whole back list from someone. - Yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - I get a little obsessive. (laughs) - See, I was speaking to someone about this recently. I normally don't do that. Like, I did that with one author and I read every someone of her books and then I haven't done that. Like I hadn't done that to anyone else who was talking to Lucy Scoring. She's like 27 books or something. And I'm like, when do you have the time to do this? - Yeah, what? - I know. - What was the last book that you did not finish? - I don't want to say. - I put down books all the time, but it was a living writer and I just, I can't put down a living writer. It's too hard to do what we do. I can't. - I feel that. I had two books that I was reading on my Kindle and they weren't bad books by anyians. I just like wasn't in the headspace to read a loving, loving romance. - A book has to come to you at the right time. - I agree. I wasn't in a book style. I was still reading books, but nothing was really hitting. And then I read your book and I was like, I'm alive. - I'm here guys. - I was like, I'm here. And I was just trying and trying and trying. I think I started maybe four different books. And I didn't finish any of them. I think I'll go back to them at some point. But I got my Kindle, it was like 62% done with one in 57% with the other one. I'm like, I'm a good bit into this. I was like, I'm just not like, at that point where I'm like hooked onto it, where I can't put it down. - I know. And sometimes I just find myself like in a really bad mood or grumpy and I realize it's because I'm not reading a book. I'm like, I'm so if I find someone I like, I'm like, oh, thank God. Like my next month is covered. I don't have to know it's searching. - How fast do you think you read a book? - I read pretty fast, pretty quickly. I just, I don't know. Like I read a lot. I read like probably two hours a day. - That's a lot. - I just really, it's like, what I wanna do with my time, I don't know. And it's what I can't go to sleep without reading first. - I agree. And I think people, like I try to get my friends to read because they're all like pretty young. It's like, okay, like you need a little, you can't just watch Netflix every day guys. And a lot of them are like, I just don't have the time in my day. And I was like, well, it needs to be something that you actively prioritize. And instead of watching two episodes of whatever before you fall asleep, like read like three chapters. And then I guarantee you're gonna fall asleep way better and way more peacefully when you're reading. Rather than staring at a TV and being like, okay, I should probably go to sleep now. - Uh-huh. - Or both. - And we're done. (laughing) (upbeat music) - What would be three books that we'd recommend to someone watching right now to go and read? - Okay, this one's a bit of a cliche, but have you read 4,000 weeks by Olivia Burke? I mean, Oliver, excuse me. - I'm so nervous, I'm so I'm getting all this up. Oliver Burkeman. - No, but it was, it was a big bestseller. I'm not like, this is not like a-- - A niche book. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was called again? - It's called 4,000 weeks, which is like the average lifespan for a human. And it's called, what is it called? Time management for mortals. And it's just, it's like kind of a time management book, but it's also just like, how do you want to spend your life? Like you get, this is how many hours you get. What do you want to do with them? Like what's important to you? What are your priorities? Like live that way. It's very, I find it very inspiring. - So it's like a self-help. - Kind of a little bit. - Yeah, I would call it self-help. - I'm a bit of a, yeah. - I used to be obsessed with self-help books. Like anytime I'm going through something like not great in my personal life, I'm like, let me go to Barnes & Noble and pick up 13 different types of, whether it's time management or how to love yourself. Like I was obsessed with, what's your name's Grace, Grace Van or something. When I was like 17 years old and she wrote, just like books about comparison and how to be like a young woman, like kind of working through this life and like not comparing yourself to everyone around you. - Yeah, it's hot and that's so hard. - Yeah. As a young girl and like coming up in the industry, like you look at everyone around you and you're like, oh, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. I should look this way. I should dress this kind of, and this personality. So that was very pivotal in my, like self-identity and like journey of liking myself. So definitely, I got okay. - My sister is 26, so around your age. And I always talked her about this, like how she grew up in this, like you guys grew up in this very weird time when like you had phones, you would Instagram and nobody knew how bad it was yet. So it was just like, you guys kind of got the brunt of it. - Yeah. - It's not good. - Yeah, anyway. Okay, my other books, "Lives Other Than My Own" by Emmanuel Carrera. I've heard of this, but I haven't had it. It's a memoir. You will cry. You will cry. Need that. But it's so beautiful and heartbreaking. So the writer was actually on Sri Lanka during the tsunami. And so that's part of the book. And then the other part of the book is his partner's sister is dying of cancer. And he weaves together these two stories in this very beautiful way. My last one is a novel. I've got to go with a novel. I love the writer Shirley Hazard. I don't know if you've read her, but Transiviness is a wonderful book, a very moving book. I like books that really make you think about your life and re-evaluate it a little bit. All right, those are my three picks. Why would you recommend the third one? Oh, it's just so beautiful. It's just very moving. Yeah, that's all I've got. And Shirley Hazard's the beautiful writer. So are you on book talk at all? I've never been on TikTok in my life. I'm so old. That's all right. That is how I found my love for reading is so lovely. Yeah, like I think a lot of girls my age we just, we were forced to read in like middle and high school. So we kind of, it became like homework and you didn't enjoy it. Yes, I have issues with the way books are taught, the way you're like, find the three themes in this book. Like, nobody else is thinking about that. No, that's just not what books are for. And it was always, they're trying to fit one book for the entire class and it's like, okay, we are such a mix of kids, like we, I don't need to be re-reading the giver when I'm in faith grade. No, no. This is crazy. And it's like, it's taught in this way that's like, here's what this book is about. You're the right answer. And that's not the way books were. Exactly. So I kind of like lost my love for reading for probably my high school experience in the first few years and then book talks started, you know, coming up, I read my first book and then I was like immersed in this entire world of like, oh my god, there's really hot girls that also read. This is crazy. I love it here. I don't ever want to leave. So when you found out, obviously, okay, for people that weren't watching, the fine art of lying was the Reese with their spoons book for me when it came out. How did you find out about that? I, oh my god. It wasn't saying, it wasn't actually insane how I found out, but I just got an email. I got an email from my editor and I was like, get my phone and I would go, oh my god. Oh my god. And it was during the Olympics and my husband goes, just Lindsey Vonney to have her leg amputated. That was it. What? No. That was specific. I was like, no, I'm going to be racist, look, look, and then it's sort of like a let down. I mean, I still can't get over it. It's just, it's lunacy. It was so surreal. Yeah. Just see her like this face, you know, so well, just like holding my foot. Yeah. I'm being like, I was like, it's like an AI photo. It was so bizarre. AI photo. My mom always sends me AI videos and it's like, look at this bunny rabbit doing a cartwheel and I'm like, mom, it's not real. You have it. Yeah. Let her have the point. You're like bunny. Okay. I believe you, whatever you think. So now I kind of want to get into the final of lying because holy crap. I mean, well, okay, for people that haven't read it, give us like a 60 second pitch that has no spoilers in it. All right. It's a sexy mystery about the art world. Yeah. That was like four seconds, right? Yeah. But like I also try to tell people about it. Like I was at, um, oh, I was, oh, I was at the World Cup like two days ago and my friends just talked to me about reading because that's what I talk about a lot. And so they're asking me for a book. I can, I was recommending your book because I was like kind of any female will enjoy this. Like normally when I'm recommending like a fantasy book, I'm like, okay, well, that might not be your dog. This I truly think is like anyone could read this and still thoroughly enjoy it. But yeah, you can't like, I was trying to explain it. Sometimes I was like, everything I say is going to kind of I know spoil it because everything throughout the book is like, bang twist, bang twist, bang twist, bang twist, bang twist. We had a very, actually had a very hard time writing the jacket copy because we didn't know like how much to give away and because it sounds very boring. If you don't give away anything, but then you don't want a sexy, right? Like, I don't even like the cover or other, I was very intrigued by it when I was like, okay, I see the leg. I see the Martini gun. The first version they sent, it was like, it's bad and hard like in novels like, like an L of two people in an elevator and the man like ripping off his shirt. And I was like, this, I feel like we're promising something I don't deliver. I don't remember. So kind of going, well, not really off that, but so both Claire and Florence are these like morally gray women. And I feel like for us, we often read morally gray men and we're always very like intrigued by them. And they're this like thing that is out of touch, but we want it. I don't, I don't know how to describe that. What was the thought process of writing it from like a female's perspective? Um, I mean, for a very, well, I don't think I could write a man, honestly. Like I just, I'm very interested in like, the experience of being a woman. I find it very fascinating like whatever. Um, but I mean, from a very selfish point of view, it's just more fun to write characters who are morally gray. Like I had in my first book, I had such a fun time writing the character of Helen. Like she was actually supposed to disappear earlier in and I was like, oh no, she's too fun. Like I want to keep her. Guys are just like, lunacy, yeah, and you know, I think like a lot of people, I walk around in my real life. I try very hard to be polite and kind and there is this like part of you deep inside that just wants to be like crazy and like say the worst things. And then I get this out of for it and it's very fun. Yeah. This morning, I am not an angry person in any capacity. Like I'm just, I'm very chill, especially with like traveling. I'm like, oh, you're going through something like I've been there, like just do whatever you want. And I was on the plane this morning and there was like a middle age, like woman sitting next to me. And normally when there's someone like that, I'm like, yes, she's going to be nice. And she was like our middle chair, like was moving around. So she kept like digging into my hip and my like seatbelt thing was on her side. And she like, you through chucked it at me, there was like a few different things where I was just like, am I doing something wrong? Like I feel like she kicked me a few times like to like move my bag over. And I was like, am I in the like, what am I doing? I feel like I'm just I'm just sitting here. So I don't know. I definitely feel that sometimes you just want to have that female rage. Right. Did you ever worry that your main characters were going to be like too unlikable? I did worry about that. I was that was a concern with Claire in the fine out of lying. But I just went with it. I personally, there was times where I definitely was like, what are you doing? But I also think a lot of women could relate to her in a aspect where you're in this like picture perfect life, but is it actually making you happy? And I think a lot of women specifically that are like just finding their person and you know like thinking about those big decisions like, do I want to marry this person? Do I want to be with them for the rest of my life? And thinking like, oh yeah, he can financially stable, stabilize me, which the main character feels like he can give me like the family and the lifestyle and living this gorgeous apartment. But then she gets there. She has the child and she's like, I'm still not fulfilled. I don't work anymore when that was such a large part of me. And I don't know. But I feel for her and the fact that she never finished her Columbia dissertation also was like, it kind of that part was really like you could see her in yourself in many ways. Yeah, I didn't want to make, I didn't want to make her husband a villain. I just thought that would be like less interesting like if he was just his bad guy and then it was like, she's allowed to cheat. Oh, spoiler. She's allowed to cheat on him. You know, because he's in a jerk and I wanted to make it a little bit more complicated than that. Um, and I wanted her like, I don't know, I just like I understand where she's coming from. She didn't marry for money, but I can understand how if you've grown up and money has been a concern your whole life, stability, like you haven't really had a big family around you, how like that life could be so like the promise of that could be like everything you've ever wanted. And so I was sort of interested in those, those ideas. So I tried to, yeah, I tried to make the characters a little, a little nuanced, but who knows? Maybe people don't want nuance. I loved all the different character dynamics between her husband's mom and the dad and just their dynamic between themselves where she, spoiler, where she feels so distance from him that she goes so far as cheating on him and then she feels so guilty with it and she's like, wait, and then he gets convicted and then he's in jail and she's like, wait, no, I need a fix this. And I'm like, well, five minutes ago, you didn't care about him. It's like, wait, it was just like there were so many different things that like kept you on the editor. edge of your chair the entire time, that was like beautifully written in my perspective. And yeah, I was like, I just every time I'd be like, okay, you go to sleep now. And I'm like, wait, but it just happened. And I'm like, oh, no, I have to stand for the moon for that. I don't know. How do you like figure out a pacing of a book? Do you think there is? - I think just the fact that I am such like an obsessive reader and have been for, I mean, literally decades at this point. I think I sort of have this instinctual understanding of pacing, but it is hard to like get distance from what you're writing. And that's where like my agent is very helpful. And she'll say, you need to slow things down here. Like this is getting a little too, like rollercoastery, like take a beat, and that helps a lot. How did you plan the twists? Oh my gosh. In like the least organized efficient way ever that required the most work to throw out. I just, I have to just like write it to know what I want to happen. And I write like tons of drafts that I don't use. I try to outline. And when I write it, it just feels very like stilted and stiff. So I mean, I wrote a whole draft where someone else was the villain. - Brilliant? - Yeah. And then my agent, I were like, this doesn't totally work. And so I started over and I had a different villain. - Yeah. - I really thought it was Jed, right? - Yeah. - I originally did it. And my agent was like, I just feel like this is a little, I've seen this before. - Yeah. - Well, that's what I was expecting. And then when the ending was happening, I was like, big, big, big, big, big, big, big boy. He didn't do it. I don't know. He didn't do it. It took me a really, really long time to like work out all the dynamics of what actually happened. And I did actually worry that it was too convoluted and too confusing, but I mean, I have worked it out and does all work, but I think you can also read it and sort of gloss over some of the details and still get the effect. - Yeah. Interesting. Sorry, I'm just thinking like, at the end, it was like wrapped up so beautifully. Like I feel like we were going through the steps of everything. And then all of a sudden, it was like, okay, we're gonna veer off and it's totally gonna be someone else. And I was like, whoa, what the hell is happening? Like were you in your writing space and like putting like a post-it notes? Like, okay, this needs to happen. Like, how did you figure out what the twists were going to be? - No, there were no post-it notes. There were just like crazy notes and notebooks or like I'd be writing like a to-do list. And then I'd be like, you know, Gabriel embezzling question, like, you know, it's just like, these ideas would come to me and then I would be like, okay, can I fit this in? No, I can't. I need a different idea. And I mean, it's like a puzzle. It's like putting it together, the pieces of a puzzle. And then I finally found something that collection I was like, oh, thank the Lord. So kind of going to the adaptation, Scarlett Johansson is doing all the production or the producing of it. - Did I find out about that? Oh my gosh. I mean, I think it must have just been a call with my agent. I just, this happened with my first book too. Like before I'd even sold it to a publishing house, my agent just very casually was like, oh, Margot Robbie wants to take a call. I was like, what are you talking about? It's like, I hadn't even sold the book yet. But I mean, these like badass, like Actress out there, they have their own production companies and they have scouts who go and, you know, they find manuscripts that are being submitted and they get in there so early. And I never actually did get to talk to Margot Robbie, which is very disappointing. - Yeah. - Well, but yeah, I mean, the people at my agency just sort of like work magic. I honestly have nothing to do with it, but it's very cool to me. Are you excited to see it kind of come to life? - I'm very excited. I'm also very, like, unprecious about it. Like they can take it and do whatever they want. Like I don't care. Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm trying to like, you know, take it with a grain of salt because with my first book, it was supposed to be a movie and then that didn't work. And then it was supposed to be a TV show. And that didn't work. I feel like in Hollywood, you can never bet on anything. So I'm just gonna try not to get my hopes up. - Keep our fingers crossed. - Thank you, I need that. I need that. I also just think, like filming that in New York City, like that would just be such a great piece of work. Like filming like the set, like just the whole part of it. Like I feel like an actress will be able to step into that role so perfectly. I don't know who, but someone and I could just, I don't know, I can just see that in my, like when I'm watching, or not watching it, but when I'm reading it, it feels like a movie. - Yeah. - I know, I hope it happens. And I think Scarlett Johansson grew up in the city too. So I feel like she's sort of, yes, some of that background. She'll understand that very side. - Yeah, exactly. - That very side. What are you working on next? - Oh, working. I'm like, I have an idea for my third book. It's very different for my first two books. Is it still a thriller? - No. I just told my agent, I was like, so I'm not gonna read a thriller next. She was like, okay, no dead bodies. But I also said that about my second book. And then sometimes I just can't help putting in a dead body. But I honestly think the third book is gonna be a historical fiction, which is like totally new and different. But I'm sort of excited for something new and different. I'm also excited to like do some research. Sometimes when I'm just writing and like, imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Jelly mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. - Maybe it's Maybelline. - Where there's no scaffolding whatsoever. You're just like in a white room. - Did you do? - Yeah. - Did you do watch out? - What's that show? - I know what you're talking about. - Do you? - The good place? - The what? - The good place. - Oh, the good place I have watched out, but I thought you were talking about severance. - Oh, severance. - There's another one in the wall. - No, you know when the good place when they go to this just like white void. Sometimes I feel like when I'm running facial, I'm just in this white void and I really miss journalism where I'm like, okay, I have these quotes to these facts and these statistics. And so I'm sort of excited to have some of that back. And so I'm doing research now. And like, if I have writer's block, like fine. I can keep the ball moving forward. I can read, I can take notes. And I think I'm gonna like those like two aspects sort of coming together, which feels like bringing in the old like reporter side of me and the fiction writing. - Did you do any research for a finer of line? - So I studied art, history, and college. So I had like sort of a background. I read a few books, one fantastic book. I would recommend everyone is Ninth Street Women, which is about sort of overlooked women of the abstract expressionist movement. And it's just like fun. It's the 50s, it's New York. Everyone's like drunk and crazy. It's such a fantastic book. It reads like a novel, truly. And then I'm, so one of my friends from high school opened up a gallery called, she co-founded, I should say. It's called Barry Campbell and Chelsea. It's absolutely beautiful. I had my book party there, actually. And so I was able to sort of ask her all my questions about just like the nitty-gritty of how the art world works. Like literally like how do the deals work? Like the taxes, stuff like that. And I knew that I needed something like kind of nefarious or dirty to happen. And so I had all these scenarios I presented to her, like would this happen, would this happen, would this happen, and she's just like yep, yep, yep. I mean, she obviously runs like a very clean business, but she was like the stories you hear about this industry are insane. Like it's so unregulated. And this stuff does happen all the time, which is sort of great for me. I was like, oh, I've got nine novels here. I'm not that into the art world because I think it's a very not normal hobby to collect art. Someone wants to tell me like, oh, when you get rich enough, you either have to choose between wine and art. And you honestly got. Okay, well, thank you for being care. I appreciate that. Thank you for having me. Okay, angels, that is all for today. Alexandra Andrews, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast to talk about my reading obsession of the final of lying. And angels, if you haven't read the book, please go and get it so you can definitely talk about the crazy plot twist that are happening throughout the book because there's a lot. And thank you guys for watching. Don't forget to check out my Patreon where we get a little bit deeper about the books that we're reading and we can just really go ham about the plot twist that make us go insane. Okay, I love you. Bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Maybe it's Maybelline.