The F*ck Them Theory (When Let Them Doesn’t Cut It) with Keltie Knight

There is no top of happiness mountain. There is no I get the guy, I get the job, I get the career, I get the top of the podcast charts, I get the money, I get the Birken, and then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible. So what do you do when you're up there, and shit goes badly? This podcast is a dear media production. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. October. Are you good? You just were staring into this. I was like, October. It's October. We're recording a little bit ahead of time. So we can be together in New York, but it's always my craziest month, and it's your special month, which the month that we met is it's on our 10-year anniversary. Yes, it's our nine-year. It's our nine-year friendship anniversary this week. The nine-year anniversary gift is pottery. Okay, ceramics. You just pulled it out of your eye. Why let's sit up the other day, because I was in a case. Let's do that. We've never done this all eight years, but let's do it. I know, because I actually was watching Gone Girl the other day, and it was like the three-year anniversary is wood or something, and I was like, oh, I wonder what the nine-year is, because I'll get her something cute. And it was like pottery and ceramics. Okay, so big week, and I'm going to give you guys a life update on this episode. I was like, October's not going to be that crazy for me. And here we are. It never fails. In my life, October is the craziest month of my life. Since I started working for myself, it's never been without fail. Last year, I shot my special, I had my wedding, like I ended my tour. It was like unhinged, and I was like, I think I'm going to have a little more relaxed October. Clown face. No. Yeah, so I will, we'll get into it. How do you feel that our friendship has bloomed over nine years? I feel like you know me better than I remember. No, I'm still going to know you. Still discovering little things about you. Can you have a change? How I changed and I think you know you better than yourself. Do you think I know you better than Shashank knows you? Like in different ways. Okay, it's actually. Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's think of our partners and we'll get into it. We'll circle back to that. Thank you to Article. Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com/ge. And NUM start AGOP1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as seven days at NUM.com and better help get 10% off and visit betterhelp.com/ge to explore all payment options. And thank you to shop up, download the app and get 15% off your first app purchase with CoGGE and NutriFull get $10 off your first order and free shipping at NutriFull.com with CoGGE 10 and thank you to AG1 get a free immune support bundle plus a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription of AG1 next gen or AG1 pro at drinkage1.com/ge. Always an asshole. Always an asshole. I still a D3K2 is rolling off the tongue after five years. D3K2. You know who I saw downstairs? I was just going to tell you because I actually don't know if you care about this. So I was downstairs at our studio and I saw the actress from sweep alley high over the twins Cynthia Daniel and Brittany Daniel. Why are you looking at me like that? I don't know the show. It was a book series when we were kids and then it became a show. In 1994 there was four seasons. Oh my gosh. Okay. I read all the books. I feel like those were like the original influencer girlies. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh wow. I saw her downstairs and they were like on the cover of every like 17 magazine YM. What a deep cut of the show. I feel like she caught me staring at her. I mean, she looks so beautiful. Yeah. She's like aged so. What else did they do? I don't know if they've done anything. 50 years old. Look at them. Look gorgeous. Obsessed. She looks like Allie Ladder. Is that I see it? Oh my gosh. It's just like a second. What you're not even do you know who Cynthia Daniel is married to? No. You're not ready. She I think she's their daughter. Who who? Cole Hauser. What? 30 years, Rayna. You're so cool. Wait, which twin did you say you don't know? I'm clear. So you might have just seen Cole Hauser's. Why? That's crazy. That's all past. Cole Hauser is like my top top. He's a ginger. He's so big. Oh, I love him. Daisy can be I've loved him because he's in confusion. That's crazy. This is so crazy. I don't know why like I might have low key known this, but I don't think so. Thank you for telling me this. Wow. Wow. Who's the other one married to? I wonder if Cole frequents the Mamon downstairs. Could be. She played Elizabeth and then Brittany played Jessica Wakefield. Who's her sexy husband? Thank you for looking this up. He's sexy whoever he is. Oh my gosh. Just a guy. Adam Tuni. Who is that? I'm clear. I don't know who that is. I mean, Cole Hauser was the original movie I saw him in was with your hall pass. Ben Affleck. What the breakup? No. I'm Daisy confused. I'm confused. And also while we're here. What? You guys know I have said in passing that John Favreau is a hall pass of mine. Yeah. John Favreau from Pod Save America. Political commentator podcaster. For years, you guys, I thought it was the other John Favreau. And I was like, huh. So we put on the breakup, one of my favorite movies of all time in Santa Pay. Like we got home. It was we put it on. We're like, let's watch a movie who doesn't want to watch the breakup. And John Favreau comes on the screen and all his frumpy glory like Swinger is John Favreau. Yeah. Rainy was like, I can't believe that's your hall pass. And I lost my mind. That was the hardest that we laughed the whole trip. I see all these years. You didn't know I meant John Favreau from Pod Save America. I just was like, it's an interesting pick for her. And I mean, I just support her freak. Okay. Fly that weird flag. And while we're here, we're going to have John Favreau on the first episode ever that actually goes without me. He will be her co-host. Don't watch it. I felt like I was like booking your affair because I was like booking the studio space for you guys to do it without me. We'll talk about it more on the intro of that episode in a couple weeks. And we'll be talking about the midterms, but we just wanted to tease it here now. So fun sighting. Okay. So what's going on with the big news out of your camp? Yes. Okay. So I rent this home in LA that I love. And I have lived in this home in Santa Monica since March of 2024. So two and a half years. And we had a normally going into it. And we then the homeowner and I decided to do a flexible lease. So it's like a 60 day out clause, which actually wouldn't recommend if you're ever going to do month to month to 30. But anyway, and she had said you can live here as long as you want. I have no plans to sell it or move back in. And so that really was part of the decision when we've decided to stay in LA, which I think I've mentioned before. Like we're just, we took it off the table. I felt like if we can't decide, then it's just not the right time for this confused. And one of the reasons was like I love our house. We have a flexible lease. Like we're not locked in. We don't decide another lease. Like we can move or do whatever anytime we want. Really. And that was a part of our decision-making process. And as we record, this will be a little bit dated. But last week, she emails that she's going to be selling the house and gives this 60 day notice. And like, you know, you have to be out in 60 days. And Reino was livid. I will say, it's not like it's year one or even two of my lease. Like it's not like she pulled the rug out from under us when we had a traditional lease, which I don't not quite sure you can even do. But we did have this flexible out clause on either side. I could give her 60 days. She could give me. And she told me as soon as she made the decision because I did just kind of ask, you know, when I was like, let me know if anything changes because we really want to stay in this house. Because I was spiraling. Like what do we do now? We had not committed to stay in LA for another year. I don't want to sign another year lease. And even to sign another year lease to move for one year is so daunting and stressful and to get our home set up again. And we have so much stuff. I mean, I think most people want to know like a six month runway of are you moving? I mean, I knew I was moving to New York. It took me a year. Like, you could just wake up tomorrow and move if you want to. But like mentally, it is a lot to prepare to move to like figure out like, what am I keeping? What am I getting rid of? Who is moving us? What do the dates look like? It's really stressful. Do we want to stay in this neighborhood? You know, Shashank and I have large-ish home with all of our things. You know, we've it's like a basement full of stuff with two car garage. Like we just have a lot of stuff. This is mine and his stuff. Our entire lives are in this home. You know, it's going to be a fucking bitch to move. So I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't feel like at this point, this what we decided was not to sign another year lease in LA. I was like, okay, we'll put our stuff in storage. Maybe we'll rent a really dope Airbnb that has like a flexible three to six month and we'll have some flexibility. And then I was like, I don't really want to do that. I wasn't really seeing anything that spoke to me. Like, if you really find something you love, it's going to be very expensive way more than you'd pay up months rent. My one bedroom house in Venice that I rented an Airbnb for like three months was the same price as my rent. Exactly, rent. Exactly. I read that from house. Totally different type of pricing structure way more escalated. So then I was like, okay, let me just get on Zillow and see what's up. This is that night. Like that this happened. I was like, let me check it out. Let's let me get on Zillow. And I found this house that I was like, okay, if we could live in this house, if we could move into our dream home, then we could do that for a year. Like, we love our house now. But it's not giving like dream home, I can't believe we get to live here, you know, like it's a little older and we get We've really really loved it. But it's not like a wow. That's our fucking house kind of thing And I don't think I really had that experience and so that's what I came across I was like could this happen. I messaged this guy in Zillow 11 p.m. And before I go to bed I messaged him again. Sorry to double message. I'm just really interested and I want to you know I want to talk the next morning. He hasn't messaged me back and it was just a guy with a phone number It wasn't he's it's the owner telling this by himself just raw dog no third party, which I love and she shank was like It was his number the next morning. I was like he hasn't read me back She's like just call him is his number there is like I'm calling him. I call him. He answers He's like hello. Hi, this is Ashley from Zillow and I just want to see how I can see this house And he's like the tenants moving out today I'm getting it cleaned and turned over. I'd love to show to you tomorrow. I was like I can't see it tomorrow I'm flying out at seven in the morning and I was like I don't care what it looks like I just want to get a feel for it. My husband are very interested in this house And he lets me come over at seven p.m. That night. I have to fly out at seven a.m. I have to deal with the dogs the whole thing and I go over there and I'm like this is the house Shashong's out of town already. He didn't get to see it But I was like we have to live here and Shashong was like I trust you and so we apply the next day Monday as we record this was yesterday He calls me and he's like I want to prove you living in the house and he's so Cool and so chill like I think that's even part of why we're so excited about it to like he's just wonderful He's like I've never raised the right on this house. I don't plan to I'm never selling it You can live here forever. He only asked for one month security in LA. They can ask for two like he's just chill and easy And so we are moving in mid-October like as we record like we're moving in like three weeks And I we have not just started anything. I feel like I haven't booked the move yet as we record I will do it today. I will get in touch and I will secure the date But like I am absolutely freaking out and it will be nice to have a partner to do this with like Shashong Can I haven't done this together like he didn't live in LA when I moved before and then he moved in? But like I feel like I'm not strong enough to do this alone even with like hiring people to do a full-pack full move I just it's still so daunting. I feel like it is so me doing it by myself It's just like I don't even want anybody in my space slowing me down. I've moved 4 or 5 times in the last five years But I also I spend the money to have somebody do a full pack for me like you have to really you'll take a lot to like charities I think you'll like really like that also just like emptying out your space and donating stuff I think you'll like doing that and I don't know I just feel like I'm so like regimented and I got it down and it does just feel so exciting to like redecorate in your space But yeah, listen, it's nice to partner do it with you. I mean a man that can like do shit. I mean it was the only way I was gonna feel okay about this like I just felt like this up ended our life in a completely unexpected way and you know Around the holidays and I had travel planned and I like I feel so sorry. I'm not gonna come to London now and This is why and I am really really sorry to you guys again It's not my show. It's Raina's show, but I know you guys would like to see me there and to see both of us there And it will be incredible obviously, but I'm not gonna be there if you're doing the math You're like wait, how are you gonna move in mid-October? And then this is why I have to move now and otherwise I would be there So I did just want to apologize to you guys and you know, I'll be there in spirit. We don't call me. I'll be up and We're gonna make this happen and I feel really excited and it to find a house that I was like This is where I want to spend the next year and accomplish some things I have on my list and it was gonna feel like that type of Dream home. Yeah tranquil Amazing brand new smart everything in saying house like I all of all of space to stay there I can finally tell other people that they can stay there every time somebody mentions going to LA I'll just suggest they can stay at your house. Absolutely not Thank you for your health Well, this was actually pretty crazy. Also, I'll show you guys an update on that But I have to tell you no part of me for one second thought that I was about to get a text that said this is a sign This is a sign. We're gonna move into York. There was no part of me It really hated that text message. Not okay. I know you don't want to live here in the winter And so I did and I have just made peace with it. I'd you don't live here I just know peace of me thinks you want to live here for like maybe like a millisecond I was like maybe she'll send me a this is just a sign, but like I think if you wanted to move here You would have moved here during nice weather in August you would have done it I wonder what would have happened if this happened in June or July I think you would move here I think I would have seen it as a sign when we were on the fence and we were really Decided in for a moment there. We were like we're moving in New York in August like that's what we thought I think we would have and I think this is the right move for us now and We're just really excited and this is our house era This like I don't I have a house like where I'm just like it's all about the house You know, it's the neighborhood's great. It's not my absolute dream But I it's we just are really excited about the house. I mean besides you the only thing that kept me in all It was my house. It is just it feels so nice to have something of your own that's special and beautiful and you're like I've worked my entire life for this. I mean, I grew up in a townhouse my dad had a apartment I grew up in a small townhouse like to have a house was the first time I ever had anything like that Yeah, it was so crazy though So I don't want to jinx it, but the same I've been trying to sell my house I finally hopefully did it and I wanted to escrow that morning and say the day that you got that email and I was like I my house you were like if I could just find something that was like furnished I'm like my house is furnished I left it partially furnished if you're curious because I go back there a lot and while I'm showing it I have a bedroom that's furnished and I have a couple couches. So like I've been saying the time he was insane. I couldn't fucking believe it I mean honestly the house might fall out escrow. I can't trust it. Oh, I have yesterday was the appraisal and today is the inspection and I had two inspections two years ago when I bought the house. It was good. I haven't had any real problems at the house But I don't know about these buyers. You know anybody can invent a region for anything. So we'll see okay by this By the time this comes out. I may have sold the house. Yeah, I hope so big moves And so I was like really getting roasted by these moving companies because like I reached out to call the movie companies Do you want to help me move and all three of them right be back? I thought you moved from LA to New York in June All of them because I hit them up in June all so that is so funny All three of them like ran the tape on that all three of them because they went all three of them Smartly went to my Instagram. It's how that I posted that I moved and so because they want to see if you worked with a movie company recently That's so funny. They're like actually you have and the one that I worked with goes didn't we just did we do feel not you again It's not that much of it is like 30 items and they're gonna go straight into a storage unit Yeah, but all of them are roasting me. I was like, I thought you just moved. Don't ask questions Take my money and leave me alone. Yeah, don't worry about this. It doesn't involve you come get my shit Yeah, so that's what's happening and we are Excited and it feels like this is the right move and then we'll reassess next year Listen, I love LA and I would live there forever But it's not near our families and I feel like you and I'm navigated this really well But I missed my family and it's shashank does as well and so we'll see I don't see a world in which that's where we live forever But we just don't know how much longer yeah, and you know if he were to get a job that offered him more flexibility We would just be on these coast more and you know, maybe one day We would have an apartment in New York or Boston or something or a house in Delaware. I don't know whatever we'll see But that's what's happening now and I'm excited and I will not be living in Rana's house I posted a little thing like maybe our new house on one of our like date night what we talked about sides I know move in a rain is house and like can't afford it. I can't afford it. I actually think you would charge for red I think was outside of my budget Hey, you know hot take I don't know why it worked with me on it No, I didn't want to do that. It's expensive. I know your mortgages and my top was a little less and I didn't want to do that with you I mean on top of that there's like insurance and homeless fees and all that and I honestly like for your best friend to be living in your house I'm your landlord. You're losing money. Finally. I'm your boss I'm dead. No, I just don't think that's what I want it. But I'm your boss, but I pay on time It's just so funny to me to think about you having sex in my house Well, I don't think about it. Well, hopefully this family I can take this house because I am hemorrhaging money. Yeah, but the way I think about I mean, I will just break even basically I bought the house two years ago I put a little bit of money into renovating it You can't flip a house for a ton of money after two years. There's all kinds of capital gains taxes So I will hopefully just break even and be made whole again and maybe I would buy again someday I actually don't know it's not my dream scenario to own property Mm-hmm. I am envious that like you can just leave anytime you want. It's not your fucking problem I mean, I am literally in hell like I just want to like offload this cost Yeah, I will be made whole again, which is the only way that I can like stomach it and get through the day Yeah, big month for property in this household. All right, well speaking of moving Fertishing your space. So buzz buzz article Hello, did you know that article could make it effortless for you to create a stylish long-lasting home? And I didn't know that yeah, let's talk article of long time friend of the pod. I'm gonna get a new couch So just putting that out there to any what he listening. Yeah, specifically article But I love what they do. I love their styles. They have like a curated range of mid-century modern coastal Scandin inspired pieces when I was living in L.A. I lived in Venice a little bit of the beach So I like something a little more boho and I used them for that But now in New York, I like something that's like you know like a mix of stuff mid-century modern Et cetera, so it is great for that I mean truly whatever room in your house you want and they make it really easy to kind of mix and match the pieces If you're not sure how to decorate you can check out their website also their Instagram is great Just to see how people paired different pieces of furniture together, and I mean, if you're just thinking about the quality and the price, they really have it made. So the packaging is great, weight and feel of the product. It comes mostly assembled. I've owned quite a few things and they always hold up really well. And yeah, I mean, if we're talking couches, I love that they have a lot of stuff in different fabrics. They have buclay. They have velvet. They have leather, et cetera, et cetera. I like this timber leather sofa, I'm believe the leather sofa is another way. I want a green sofa. I love the green sofa. I need a dark color because the dogs and just this gray couch, I love this couch, I love Hell Giant. It was that I have now. You guys have seen it at this point. If you follow me, it's in so many photos, especially because of the dogs. But like in this house, it's just got a different vibe, and that's what I'm looking for. I want like a green couch and like two buclay white chairs. Love it. They have all that available for you. With fast, affordable shipping and assembly, they also have support when you need it. I love their support. They have working with companies that are just like available you seven days a week and they're kind and they offer like real information. And they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. 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You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit BetterHelp.com/gge to explore your payment options. That's betterheelp.com/gge. Okay. Let's get into it. Okay, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a three-time Emmy award-winning TV personality and New York Times bestselling author and co-creator and host of the Wildly Successful Lady Gang podcast. You've seen her live from the red carpet at the Oscars, the Emmys, the McAll of the Grammys and the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, her new book, The Fuck Them Theory. Self-help for people who are done being the bigger person comes out November. We are so excited to welcome Calty Knight. Oh, my girls. It's so fun. Like, honestly, we've been already talking for 30 minutes before the camera started because I just, like, I just love you and I feel like we're sisters and we came up together. And you guys were, like, front row seat to my mental breakdown at Ladyworld last year. So, honestly, you know, because you're like, wait, should we go on? It's raining. No. And I'm in the corner crying in an alligator costume, like so many thoughts. I forgot. She's also a festival organizer. I have to tell you, she's also a festival organizer. I write the intro to every single guest I have for almost 10 years. Yours was, like, hard to narrow down. Like, you're so impressive. And we'll talk about your book and you talk about, like, having a poster syndrome. And I'm like, this is the most impressive person. The stuff that you've done is crazy. But I do have to say in the book that you do talk about the meltdown at Ladyworld. Ladyworld. And your husband and it's just, like, the alligator suit and all the things. I'm like, are we going to get mentioned? Like, for a minute. I was like, what if we get the first chance I was like, I think we wouldn't have known about it. Well, let's have a story. It was kind of crazy. Let's tell from your perspective, and were you feeling like we have put so much work into this? And then, oh my gosh, it's raining and like, what Ladyworld is? Okay. So, I had the most spectacular meltdowny fall of last year. And I think most women out there, you know, they're like, we saw your spot. You're like melting down about your wedding or like your baby or your postpartum. But like for me, it's always career stuff, which is like highly unrelatable, but also like, okay. So, we had the Ladyworld festival. And what happened was Ladyworld festival and the last episodes ever of E-News were the same week. Okay. So, E-News got canceled. We were hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt on the Ladyworld festival. This was a podcast. We put on my lady gang. We brought all kinds of podcasters and music and it was so epic. And it was just like so much more work than we could have imagined. And because it was so much work and I was like having all this stuff go into my life, I was self-medicating in the most spectacularly Hollywood way where I got to a point where I try to be woo-woo where I'm like, I'm going to meditate and do yoga. And then I just needed the easy way out. So, I was taking GLP ones because someone had said I was fat at the Emmys and I was like, well, I won't be that girl. And then on top of that, I was drinking like a crazy person. And then I was taking Xanax and Antidepressants and then Ambien to sleep and Gabapentin just to like take the edge off. So, this is very Hollywood of you, actually. This was like eight months leading up to the festival. So, I was not like doing any of the things that would normally keep me sane in Hollywood. Like all the Pilates Reformer, Meditation Therapy out the window. I was like, I'm going to, you know, so to the point where like we went down for a site visit for Lady World, and I talk about this in the book. And I got wasted in front of my boss, like the Lady World Boss and his 11-year-old daughter at a dinner, puked all the way home on my Chanel shoes, my assistant, and the girls and Lady Gang had to undress me in the bed. And the next morning, I'm like pulling puked out of the braided Chanel sandals. Like I just was the opposite of like that halt. When you're like, oh, it was so hard to make a thing. You're so, I'm like, no, I'm messy, messy, messy. So we got to Lady World, I'm so nervous about it. We've planned this for like five years. This is a dream. And the girls that came were like such lifers, and I was like, I want this to be amazing. And then we just see the fucking black storm cloud coming of Destin, which hasn't had rain in seven years. Is the most beautiful beach of all. Do we need a rain contingency? Of course not. It never rains in Destin. We're in the bubble. Whatever it's called. I'm like, oh, okay. And just so people know, this is an outdoor kind of like music festival. Like a Coachella. Like a mini Coachella. I see this black cloud rolling towards us. Well, we're on doing our set. And I'm like, no, there wouldn't be a thunderstorm in Destin on day one of the festival paradise. In paradise, it starts pouring rain. You guys are backstage. We're like, are we going to send them on? Are they going to get electrocuted? I'm like, send them on. It was so much rain. The audience was sitting there with ponchos running to save their lives. I mean, it wasn't thunderstorm. Like I've never seen. But then they stayed. It was so beautiful. It went out. I have like this alligator costume because I was like making fun of like the alligators in Florida. And I'm out and we're singing like, feel the rain on your skin and crying. I'm like melting down. I'm like sweating out Gabba Pentin. Like it was just. Fuck it. There were people on the stage with brooms just pushing the water off the stage. And Ashley and I were supposed to go on next. And I was like, I don't know. We're going to do it. There was a little bit. We went on. It was rainy. But we went. It was like cleared up a little. You know what? We talk about this actually all the time and post mortem when I got my shit together and could like really take this in. You girls are real ones. Like I know your audience knows this and you, you know, there's a reason you're so successful in what you guys do. But like you're just real like I hate the girls girl thing. But like there are people who would get out there and be like, I'm not doing it. The audience is not warm. Like it's fucking raining. This is not safe or like whatever, just being like, no. And you guys were like, okay, well, yeah, half the audience left because it's. I thought thunderstorm, but there's like a thousand girls out there that are in ponchos and they want to see us like, probably the worst show of your life. But you guys did it and it was so fun and like you're just, you're really down to like be those girls. And I, I will say of all the horrible shit that has led me to meltdowns in Hollywood. Every once in a while there's like a bright light like you guys. And you really, I'm like, okay, there is good karma. Well, Kelty, you're, I just want to say to you that you were such a real one, but you really do like walk the walk and like lift other people up and what genuinely want to see other people succeed, other women succeed. And I think we have not been in Hollywood, like we, but we're in entertainment and we've seen it all. We've seen people like that, you know, you think you're friends and then they get famous and they don't text you back. And you know, we've kind of seen it all and I texted you and I was like, can I come on lady gang to promote my special? And you're like, yeah, absolutely. We're super busy, but we'll make it work and that's just how you are like, I don't know, I think you, but just as such a genuine person, thank you, because I think it's hard to find. Yeah. You don't always know. We talk about this all the time. My brother said to me, people's number one question is our Ashley Rainer really liked that in real life. Yeah. They like walk the walk to that and he's like, it's so funny because I'm like, she's exactly what you hear on the podcast. And I think that's important because you follow so many people and then sometimes you meet your heroes and you're like, oh, they're not really like that. And I think it's a real heartbreak when you learn it and it's so, so strange to watch people learn it for the first time, like everyone's like, oh my god, I can't like, especially like now at this point in my career, I've watched so many, my old boss at entertainment time when I first got hired, she said to me, baby girl, we have the best job in the world because stars come and go, but we'll always be here. And I was like, oh, that's so dark, but it's true. Like I've watched so many, it girls come and then go and come and go and you know, it's like, oh, this is a ruthless business and but everything is ruthless. Womanhood is ruthless. Like it doesn't matter if you're in Hollywood or you're like, you work at Google, like people are shitty. Yeah. Yeah. That's the bottom line. That's your next book. Yeah. Okay. So we know more books. Oh, I'm going to ride off into the sunset. Okay. Yeah. I'm like the gabapen went in the trash and sort of my career with this book like I think no one's going to call me back. I'm literally calling out. I know. I want to gas you up. I truly like actually suggest having the show. I was like, absolutely. You sent us the book and I was like pumping my fist in the air like reading the intro to this book. So good. Like it's sort of the antithesis to let them and we've had my robins in the show and we loved her in that episode. And if you take advice that's positive from that, then that's great. But this is sort of the antithesis to that. And I was just like, fuck yeah, I love listening to somebody talk like this. Like I'm very excited for people to get this in their hands. You did a great job. So tell us about the inspo. Okay. So the, can I swear? Yeah. The fuck them theory is obviously a play on words. Yeah. Let them is incredible. And let me tell you I've done all of it. I've let them. I've girl washed your face. I have felt like a monk, Jay Shetty style. I paid $600 to be VIP at Oprah's, love your best life tour at the forum in LA because I was like, I want to live my best while I Oprah like, I am very self-help girly. I've done all the therapies. I've like held at the moon. I charge my crystals. I tap, tap, tap, tap. So I mean, my body like I've done all of it. And there is a certain hole in the self-help world, which is for when you're letting them and then all the unfinished business is rotting your soul. What do I do with that heartbreak? What do I do with the rejection? Like I can't just, I'm not cool enough to just be like, let them. I know you're supposed to let me, Mel. I know what you're like. All the people in the comments are like, I know, but did you really read the book because after you let me? Yeah, I know. I let me. Yeah. Okay. But no. Some of us, I realize like, oh, what is my real way to help myself? And it is taking the breakdowns, the stress, the rejection, the heartbreak and using it as fuel. There is no. I get the guy. I get the job. I get the career. I get the top of the podcast charts. I get the money. I get the Birken. And then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible. So what do you do when you're up there and shit goes badly? You have to keep reinventing. You have to keep being hungry. And I just think it's like, what do you do while your life is falling apart? And that is what this is all about. It's about how to just be messy and have permission to be messy and have it never figured out. I like a little revenge. I like a little spite. But I also like figuring out how to make your life work for you. I love this speech and honestly, like, I took some things from let them, but like, you know, the idea not to keep saying this, but like, if somebody wants to leave you, let them. And it's like, yeah, but this hurts. So like, now what? If somebody wants to doubt me, fine, let them. I don't fucking care. Yeah. You doubt me and then watch me. But there's like, this feeling of like, then what? Well, I did a bunch of studying what someone in the review said, this is so well researched. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm so smart. But a great compliment. Thank you so much. I did do a lot of research and what I found and Dr. Kelty for a second, let me just, is that unfinished business truly rots your soul in your brain because your brain, the neural pathways in your brain, they don't know the difference between something that has happened and something you're just thinking about constantly. Yeah. So when you have that horrible breakup or you have this horrible rejection in your life or something doesn't go that way and you're spiraling in the shower, you can't sleep at night and you're thinking, all those unfinished conversations and all the things that you wish you would have said, that actually is like ruining your life. And so we have to put that somewhere. And so instead of just putting it into, I'm thinking about Doug forever in the shower and all the things he did to me, well, what if we like do some personal mode of writing, burn that shit and then turn that heartbreak into some power and using that rage to be like, okay, well, I'm going to go live my best life. Do something. And that's the book. There's like kind of exercises and different things to guide you. Yeah. I just had something happen to me in Hollywood. I, I pissed someone off and I found out that they were mad at me. And I was like, I guess I could just let them think I'm a dick forever. But instead I wrote a three-page hand-written note with a wax seal on it and I had to deliver to their house with flowers, not every time they, not everything is about being an asshole. Like I was wrong. I need to apologize and like I'll probably never hear from that person. They're never going to call me and be like, it's okay. I wasn't that mad. Okay. Like it's off my plate. Mm-hmm. You go to sleep and I know that you at least try to make it better. I came up sad of the street clean. Well, right. And then you were able to release it. Bye. Right? I saw this tick-tock. Did you send it to me about the don't let them hear you just like don't let them. Yeah. Which I said that I'm so jealous. We didn't come up with it. Don't let them hear you. No, I wish I had titled the book don't let them. There'd be a lot less red tape. Right. I know. You know what I mean? But I don't know she might be. Somebody might have come after you and been like this is so clearly a parody. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah. But I just, I love this. So don't let them. And you're just so honest and vulnerable about who you are. And again, embracing the messiness and I love when you talk about what people call you try hard. You're like, can I try hard? I feel like I've really looked up to you in like effort is cool. I can't decide exactly what Hollywood person like really ruined it for the try hard girls. What is that? What is the moment? We were girlbossing. And it was cool to try and everyone was building their companies and wearing a tie and like making to-do lists. And then all of a sudden it became like NEPO baby. We're smoking cigarettes again. We have effortless slick backs. Yeah. We see how don't try and lean back. We'll see how that ages in 10 years. Yeah. But just in general, you're like, I work really hard at what's wrong with effort. It's so weird. Yeah. Well, you have this chapter in the book, like fucking making it look effortless or something like that. And it would be just the title reminded me of motherhood and let like for so long women have just been sold this idea that they just have to act like they're fine. And the postpartum doesn't exist and that they're not like having like soul-crushing relationships with their body and their mind and how do I become a mom now. But let me look like I'm happy and everything is great and I'm perfect at this. And I read that title and I was like, I think people are going to really like mothers are going to take a lot from that. Thank you. So one without a uterus, that is so nice to hear. Like, you know, I got my uterus taken out. So I guess I- You didn't know that. I don't have a uterus. I didn't have a uterus. I did, yeah. This sounds familiar. It's fine. I think you're right. I hate- I really hate the idea of like it's not supposed to be a lot of work. That's why I've been like- So what I love about you guys, too, is like being so open about the shit we're doing to our faces, the shit we're doing to our bodies, the stuff that we have to do in order to be successful in like, in our lives and careers. Like, I just think going behind the curtain and not just being like, oh, I just woke up and it just all came together. And here I am. Yeah. Well, let's talk about body and the look stuff. So you have, fuck your goal weight, I think there's nine chapters, yes. Yeah. And even body-ass, but also face, like all the things, I mean, do you want to just share a little bit about your face, your face, aren't you? So long. And like, up the body, true. So I really like that you say in the book. Yeah. It's just acceptance, neutrality. It's so dark. Okay. So here's the thing. I grew up as a ballerino as a dancer and I grew up born in the 80s, childhood, the 90s. So I talk a lot about in the book. Like, I grew up like nobody wanted to be reincarnation. Nobody wanted to have a BBL or like curves or like, Garth Fisher did my boobs under the muscle. And I wanted boobs. We wanted to be like, hey, boss, so stick thin. That was like the girl, that was who was on our walls, you know, and then being a dancer on top of it, I just can't remember a time when I wasn't at war in my own body. And I think when you're someone who is kind of thin, people are like, oh, it must be so easy for you. And I think that no matter who you are, no matter what your body shape, you know, I think women think about their bodies constantly. And then I think when I transitioned to TV, I had such a weird upbringing with being weighed as a dancer, I had multiple jobs as a 20 year old where I was told a show weight, I had to be a show weight when I was a rocket back in the day they used to send you a letter to your house that was like embossed in gold foil that was like, dear Miss Kelty, like on the first day of rehearsals, you will be required to be this weight. Like it was just like very bizarre things because it was like the early 2000s. And I mean, they've since changed that thing, God. And what was it? 122 pounds. It was like I was allowed to be 109 to 116 pounds, which, you know, their doctor had decided five six. Yeah, I mean, that's like not a healthy weight, but I've had a majority of different things. Like when I was a dancer on a cruise ship, they just literally put you on a scale and they were like, oh, you're 125 pounds, K, your show weights 120, like they just like automatically took five pounds off. And then, you know, with different dance companies, they would like prod you and measure you and be like, well, based on your BMI and all the science, this is the way, you know, and it was just once you get that number put in your head, your, your number is your number for like my show weight haunts me and I'm in my forties, you know, and forever. It doesn't matter. Like, and so I just had this like very weird reaction to my own body and always being this like dancer thin. And then I got into hosting and I got on TV and I didn't even realize, oh my God, there's so much wrong with my face. I was never even worried about my face. I thought my face was beautiful. And then, you know, people would comment and be like, oh, she looks like a whore. She looks like someone said, I look like who's the lead singer of Aerosmith? They were like, she looks like she's going to tie her last week. I know. I know. I mean, Steven Taylor's beautiful hair. So I think that was a compliment. Why not go about this? I put on my story. I was like, yeah, I was like, why does this sound like something to me said to Ashley? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, Steven Taylor core. That would get a lot of like Caitlin Jenner. And these are all five people would be like, oh my God, you look just like, and it would be like a 65 year old woman. Like it was just like, you know, it was, it's just hard. Here's the thing. I know it's fake. I know it's the internet. Yeah. There's only so many times you can hear horrible things about yourself before they start to sort of seep in course. And so I started in true what I call in the book, my black swan brain. Like I say, anyone in that saw that movie black swan with Natalie Portman, there's like the scene in that movie where she is looking in the mirror and she's like scratching at her body. And it's like a psychothriller, right? And she's like bleeding. And I'm like, that feels like an everyday situation. Do you know what I mean? Like it doesn't feel like a horror movie that they like dreamt up in Hollywood. I'm like, no, that's sometimes how I feel in my own body. And so I started looking around Hollywood as I was on these red carpets and looking at the most beautiful, glamorous girls in the world looking at my fellow hosts. And I was like, oh, well, I got this one in a million chance to get this job that I want so badly, I better not fuck it up. So I'm going to work the hardest. I'm not going to sleep. I'm going to do the most research. I'm going to do the best interviews. I'm never going to say no. I'm never going to take a day off. And I'm also going to fix my face that people don't like. So then I went to the MediSpa's and I started doing the thing that so many women do, which they see the sign in the MediSpa and they're like, oh, $700, they're going to melt the fat away. And I started doing the cool sculpting. I did the kybella, which is horrific. Don't ever do that. And basically I just figured my face where basically the skin was just kind of like hanging off my chin because those procedures and those procedures because what happens I learned later is that you actually need a layer of fat because muscle can't connect to skin. It's like a sandwich. It's a BLT. You see what you mean? You need a little bit of fat to like stick it together. And so when you melt the fat away, the skin just flops around. Anyway, so I just figured my face and then I went in. I had a neck lift in 2017 and Dr. Diamond was basically like, you fucked up your face. I'm going to go in and stitch it up like a corset. It's going to last five years. You're too young for a face lift. If you're going to come back in five years, I'll give you the face lift. And so I had the face lift a year and a half ago. And I think the important thing of the story is people are like, oh my God, you had a face lift. You look great. Great. I know. Thank you. But the important thing is that this is not a facelift because I was so vain, which I was. And I just wanted to get a facelift. This is a facelift because I disfigured my face because people were mean to me on the internet. Yeah. So it's like, I'm the ultimate girl that got pressured into. I saw myself on TV. I didn't think I looked as good as anyone else. My black swan brain went nuts open and I screwed up my face so much in the pursuit of perfection that I had to then go get a facelift. But I think this is what we see with people. I think Chloe Kardashian is an example of like that whole family of people who are like, they are not exempt from all the criticism. No matter what they do, no matter that they are the standards of beauty. And I feel like Chloe was especially just seemed very susceptible to it. And we just watched her morph and she's a beautiful woman, by the way. But I feel like there's been these points where it's like, we were watching her respond to the internet in real time and doing things that really is making her look less beautiful. But then look at somebody like her and you're like, it is never enough. It's never enough. It will never be enough. And whether or not you have a platform or not, like I think women are just being told that you're never good enough and the standard was to then body positivity. And love your body. And so it's great. And having a little muffin top is great. And then it was empathy. And that was like, well now, now you have to be real thin and like, it's never enough. And so you at some point have to get to a point where you're like, I've got to lean out from this. I got to just accept who I am. I think so. And I will say like, I finished my facelift and healed from that. And I was like, oh my god. I'm done. Thank god. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, do I need boobs? Like I'm not getting boobs, but like, have all of my friends have now had their children and they're all getting their little baby booblifts. And I'm in a visa again this summer. And I was like, I'm so much more mentally stable this year. And I'm looking around. I'm like, do I need boobs? And then I'm like, a bluff. I didn't even know that was something I needed. I'm definitely dull. No. I will get a facelift probably next five year. I'm going to be 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Probably once a quarter. I do a like, shoot boobs. I'm not. I will. But and I'm really happy with my body. You look great. I think what I see a really good. Boob job. I know. And like, oh my god, I should get boobs. Are you guys looking at my boobs thinking like I want them to be that big? I know. Wait, are those real boobs? Or real? I had three breast reductions. It was a whole lot better. Oh, you used to have like, yeah, size. I think your boobs are great on you. They look good. Thank you. But I guess my point is with all of this is like, here's the thing. I think that if we just remove the cloak of secrecy around it, right? Like me coming on your podcast beam, like, here's what you should do. Here's what you shouldn't do. Here's what you're going to want to do. Then it can be like, you know, sometimes when you're lying in bed at night and you feel unhappy and you just go on a fast fashion site and spend $200 and you get 19 items. Right. Okay. Any more. I've leaned out. Okay. I've said fuck them. Okay. Thank you. But you know what I mean? You know that dopamine that happens and you're like, I shouldn't do this. But like, I just, I want something to come and I don't care that it's like made of plastic and it's going to give me like cancer. Like, I just want to wear it. I think if we talk about all of this stuff that's going on in our minds, our black swan brains with our bodies and our faces and our being affected by it and not being so like, Oh, nothing gets me. I'm such a strong woman. Then maybe it'll be the same way as like, I know we should talk about maybe getting boobs one day. We'll talk about it and then we won't do it. But like, taking the shame away from it and it just being these conversations, like, I actually sort of love that the Kris Jenner, the cat's Adler, the Tracy Tudor, the everyone else. Like now it's like, we're talking about our facelifts. Like we're talking about buying a jelly shoe on Amazon. And good. Right. You know, there's less mystery. Well, right. Because I want to say, I got the facelift and now I'm like, should I do my eyes? So you can get the facelift. You're never going to be happy. Yes. And we have said that before because I've had my nose done and we've all we've got everything done. I love that about you guys. And also like my bruise from Dr. Diamond, I was like, no, it's fine because like you guys come on and you're like, yeah, I wouldn't even ever know. But I've always said like, you've got to be happy enough with yourself because that's not going to make you happy. Like, I'm sure there are plenty of women who've gotten rhinoplasty's who were just like, I hate myself and I will love myself after. And I went into it loving myself and then I love myself even more. But I just think you got to get to that point first because the expectations are unrealistic that it's going to change your life in that way. And then I just don't think you ever stop. You never stop. And I think that again, my whole point in the book is, is I just really want people to understand that like when you get the thing, the marriage, the job, the facelift, like it's all inside work still. And like, there's never a top of the happiness mountain where you're like, oh my god. Now I finally got this thing. I'm free like, there's no freedom. We have to like find that for ourselves and the way that I've been able to do that in my life is through hard work and turning those like spiral nights into something that makes me feel purposeful. Yeah, also I just I really surround myself with people that make me feel good about myself and it's nice my friends just they don't invalidate me when I say like I want to change this but the people around me think that our show is amazing and they just like want to be a part of our lives that I think like the people around me are so wonderful there has to be something about me and make them want to be with me and I don't know the people around me or what make me feel like really confident you also are who you're what you are the company you keep. Yeah, that's true. Okay, I want to wrap up this physical appearance conversation with one thing you have in the book of the like the celebrities don't really look like that in person. Like it's you're seeing them like with the lighting and all the things. Yes, we're not shitting on people, but I just I like that too that they know it's not what you think to on top of all the work everybody's getting done they still actually don't look like what you think you're seeing and you have three hours of makeup in here. No one's been more close up than you. Yes, and what's so interesting we were just talking about Chloe Kardashian. Chloe Kardashian is a very interesting person to me because she's actually prettier in real life. I believe it. This is so wild. Look, when you sit next to her and through all the different years of Chloe, you're like oh my god, you're so gorgeous. Like she's really tall. Yeah, she's like got these big features like she's really gorgeous. I will say we saw it a little bit at the vanity fair party last year. Do you remember the vanity fair Oscar party got kind of reamed for having bad lighting last year. There was like the kind. Okay, yeah. I'll I'll give you a quick. No, yes, you remember this photo. Yes, normally on the red carpet. They basically have sort of a behind me, the interviewer, where the stars are facing. They have like a wall of lighting. Yeah, they have a wall of lighting, which is like shining down on them. You know, like when you get your your old sidekick and you took a picture in 2007. You didn't have a nose and you felt really hot. Yeah. Okay. The pretty filter. It's like the Paris filter on you at all times. And then on top of that, my cameraman has enough. Other light like he sets up his own lights. So the you're being really blasted by lights. Something happened at the vanity fair. I wasn't there that the lighting was not doing what the lighting normally does in Hollywood. And what we saw and everyone was like. Hi, a girl has a a crow's foot and you're like, yeah, babe, everyone has crow's feet like literally everyone because when you're not blasting someone with the Paris filter, the white light. Totally. You're going to see a black head. A little like I know firsthand because I wear. A lot of makeup on the red carpet like drag queen level style makeup. But then when you're all lit like that, it's perfection. That's really what people look like. They've got old elbows. They've got old knees. They've got like a little scratchy old lady. Chest that they're covering up. Yes, we've all got a little old lady. Chest. Like, you know, Jane fond is like, I'm going to wear a turtleneck in the summer because she's like, you're not seeing that. You know, so true, but also like on top of that. Not a hot take. People have personal trainers seven days a week. They have the most expensive hair and makeup people. They sit here and make it for five hours. Yeah, professional style. You're not competing against reality. When you look at some. I look at women. I'm like, their hair is so amazing. No, it's real. Nothing's real. You know, if you guys only knew the amount of even for me on a red carpet, the amount of undergarments and then tailoring. Like, there's this thing. I'm going to give you all your listeners a hot take, whether they're getting married or they're going to an event. Okay, there's something called a grogain. Have you ever heard of it? No, no, even in your wedding dresses. No, okay. So there's something called a grogain. No, she was actually a perfect bride. Yeah, you were good pride. Also getting into that dress was a journey. I mean, it just was a little tight. And you need a grogain. Okay. Yeah, a grogain is essentially a bra strap. It's a big, thick piece of material in couture dresses. And it goes around your belly like the right at your waist. Yeah. And so when you buy your dress from marshals or wherever you may see is any get your dress. What happens is they put the grogain in and they have the dress. And so it just like really. It like is like a little mini corset in every gown. And it pulls in your clothes. Well, people put the grogains in everything. Like everything a star is wearing on the red carpet. And it's very uncomfortable. And it just gives you like this beautiful, beautiful waist. And I put it in all my dresses. And it really like gives you a shape on the red carpet that like a spank or a skim's can't. Anyway. So there's like all these tips and tricks of like how to look great. Yeah. That like the regular girl does. No. So when they're not even wearing spanks, it's like mega spanks. Well, and it's also like sometimes you look at a woman and people like is she pregnant? It's like it's just our uterus. It's just our organs poke. No, people's stomachs aren't concave. I mean, some people's are, but I think like a normal woman's body parts inside of there. That's just my organs. You guys, I talk about this in the book. Like the before red carpet is like, I don't want to be a psycho, but like I'm not having a carbonation, a carb for the week before the red carpet. And then I'm waiting for I literally. Have my glam team have two diet coaks in their glam bag because the minute my pictures take in and I'm starting to do the hosting. And like, then I don't care about the bad pictures. Then I like sucked down carbonations the first time in seven days. And I'm like, and a power bar. I'm like, oh my god. Like the things people are doing. It's horrible. It's horrible. And it's sick. And it's fucked up. But like that's the game. That's what we're doing. Yeah. Okay. Just going to take a quick break. I'm telling you guys about shop. I am so excited to talk about shop. This is a place that we love to shop. I have been shopping from shop up for so many years. I don't even remember. 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You can shop by what's new, check by designer alphabetically and just again, get all your clothes, your active wear shoes, bags, jewelry accessories, even home and gifts. And like I said, if you have Amazon Prime, be sure to link your membership and you'll get a free one day shipping. So your order is going to come the next day. So when life throws something at you last minute shop up comes through every time for everything on your calendar. And because shop up is the best, they're giving our listeners 15% off your first app purchase with code GGE. So go ahead and download the shop up app, use code GGE. That's GGE at checkout for 15% off your first app purchase shop up style for what's next. Okay. And new. If you guys are curious about GLP ones and I was and I have been on them in the past and I had a positive experience, but I think a lot of people start thinking, okay, if I start this, and I'm curious about starting this, yeah, I feel how do I get off of them. And I love what Newman's doing. They are the leading behavioral change company and they believe that losing weight is only half the battle. So I'm like other short term programs and other GLP one providers that just give you the medication, new pairs of behavioral tools to help people build sustainable habits. And have active long lasting success. So they have an app that's fantastic that'll guide you through all of this their website is great as well, but it'll combine all kinds of progress tracking it is designed for real life. So it's going to give you a psychology based science back program that will pair that with behavioral changes daily lessons, food logging to support the weight loss. So it's not enough just to take these medications, it's also important to learn how to eat healthy what feels good in my body, what makes me feel good, how do I grocery shop, how do I work out, how if I ever want to get off of this, can I make this sustainable and they're going to help you understand and manage food noise, make more intentional food and exercise choice and just stay consistent and navigate all the set back. So I like what they're doing. If you're curious about GLP one, the new GLP one program starts at $39 and is delivered to your door and is little seven days start your GLP one journey today at new dot com. That's an OOM dot com new loose for keeps initial one month subscription from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter cost them education is not included final pricing depends upon program selection. Okay, and AG one we have daily savings coming up. I'm just going to be getting so dark what you call it daily saving daily saving. I know I know we're talking about this going to get dark at 3 30 in the afternoon, the season shifts and this can really change your whole rhythm of your body and your life, your long goes off, it's pitch black outside, you've got your full day ahead to stress, just thinking about it. So that is where AG one routine can come in. It is not going to fix your sleep, your alarm time or change daily savings, but it is going to give your body what it needs to be ready. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else. So we use AG one with ice cold water. You can also put it in your smoothie. I've done that in the past as well. You can add a little lemon, whatever you want to do. 12 ounces is the minimal amount of water. I like to do a little more. I like to water to a little bit more, but you know, you do you when your body is navigating seasonal change, your nutritional foundation matters more than ever. 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With your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, that's drinkag1.com/gge. Okay. Well, let's pivot from body a little bit. No, no. It thinks it's really important to hear this. Yeah, we love this conversation. And I do look at people like, how are their knees looking like that? My knees don't look like that. My chest doesn't look like that. Knees and chest is, I get older. I'm like, they're looking a little older than Elbow, but they're not my business. That's a good call. Like, I don't see that. I'm not back there. There was one picture that, oh my god. I fucking love that. Elbows are none of my business. I remember this picture of Meg and I walking into the water in Greece from the back and I was like, we look so good. My butt looks good. We would never. And then I zoomed in and I was like, oh my god. But I don't ever have to look at them. That's your husband's business. My elbows are none of my business. And you're right. Because I felt bad about my elbows in a photo to us. You know, it's interesting. Even with Dolly Parton passing last month, like Dolly wore like a glove. Like when you interviewed Dolly, Dolly only had her fingernails out. Wow. That's going to be me. And Paraselton does the same thing. I'm like, does Paras have an old hand? What is she hiding in those clothes? I also have a tramp stamp and I'm like, it's none of my business. I got my laser off. But it's none of my business. Yes, it's none of my business. Wait, what was your trail stamp? It was the Chinese word for woman. Of course. Oh my god. I don't know. You're just worse. A little bit worse. You have a butterfly? No, butterfly. No, my eyeball. Mine looks like a bull's eye. I know. I always forget. Is this none of my business? Oh yeah. It looks like a butthole. You got to get that laser off. It's none of my business. That's the people that sleep with me. I don't care. It does. My butthole. You like it and I'll water squirt on her ass and I was like, you've got to get that laser off. On the cheek. On the cheek. I've never had a guy be like, I'm having trouble finishing. You have a butthole on your back. No, he loves it. They love a butthole. It's like uncharted territory. Um, I do want to talk about dating and fuck boys. So I wrote down this quote in the fuck the fuck boys chapter. When you start with please, I am begging you if you do one thing in this wild one-time only life, pick a partner who is nice to you. It's just like really hard, and you talk about your husband, you say you committed to him, but only after he spent months trying to date you and you ignored him and I went on the bachelor. Yeah, and like all this stuff. So I just want to hear a little bit about that. You know, I've made a lot of mistakes and I am a very messy person. The only thing I've really done right is pick someone who's really nice to me and really loves me and really knows me and I have so many friends that have picked incorrectly. And more importantly, picked incorrectly and then had children with that person and are now in the middle of messy custody and divorces and money and you're stuck with them forever. They're even going to come to the wedding of your kids one day like all of the games, all the dating books, all the Why Men Love Bitches, all of it, all of it, all of it. It's so fun, it's so crazy, it makes for great stories, but oh my God. Life is hard enough with trying to make someone love you for your whole life. That seems exhausting to me. No, I love the advice. I saw this meet me other days, had like, I promise you the person that dysregulates your entire nervous system is not the love of your life. And I was like, well, if I really hit me in the chest, the person makes you wonder and chase after them and you don't know they're inconsistent. You don't do what they say they're going to do, like, that's not, that should not be the love of your life. Is it nice to you? Is it nice to you? Like, I mean, it's, we were talking about the friend recently in the way her and her partner were fighting and I'm like, I don't think Shashank would ever speak to, we would never speak to each other like that. I don't know, maybe in 10 years, something, I just can't even picture it. We don't speak to each other like that. We don't say things to her with the other person's feelings and I also just think I can be really neurotic and I can be a certain type of person that I'm not for everybody and I found someone that like doesn't love me in spite of those things. He loves those things about me. So and I feel like that's probably how you feel too, like you're a specific type of person and your husband is just like, but that's what I love about her and kind of is like giggles about it. Yeah. Kind of entertained. He's like, there's never a boring tomorrow. Yeah. And you're like, you're watching a little pop like me and Ashley and Shashank and Ashley wanted a new table and Shashank and I were sitting there and actually was running around trying to find a better table. He's just like, I don't know. He's like, the table's never good enough. It's all right. I just got to learn. And he thought it was so funny. Like she's so, like she's, you know, here she goes again. Like it's more, he's just like, here she goes, I got to watch her. He's like, you know the thing. Well, I mean, actually, like, I don't have to worry about our table at rest because she will get us a better one. Like, it's just funny. I just want to have a nice experience. I don't do it all this time. No. And also, like, there's, I think what I learned in this journey is there's enough going on in this to keep me busy the rest of my days. I don't need to be proving myself to the love of my life. I don't want to have to pretend to be a certain way or win you over or continually win you over. Like I just want to have a nice experience and I do think a lot of the success that I've had and the things that I've been able to accomplish in spite of my own neuroses have been because I had Chris behind me. Okay. So then I want to quote you again because then we can move on from this, but you get, you tell the lady world story and how he was just there and, you know, was being your rock and it's going to be okay. And you just said, this is just one of the million times you've shown love in that way. He's by far the best person I know and honestly, the best business decision I've ever made to say your partner is your romantic partner, right? And I obviously were partners, business partners, but like that they're a hundred precision. It's so true because nothing ruins your life, your career, your self worth. And a bad partner. Absolutely. I've said it like my best relationships are the ones that throughout the day. I don't have to think about them. I don't think like will they show up for me? Will this person call me? Will they do the right thing? If I need something, those are my best relationships. And like, listen, I love Shashank. He's made Ashley just more calm or patient good businesses, the best business decision for us. The best thing ever happened to this business. Yes. But like you also, you tell another story in the book about how I'm, it's not your first husband. It was like a rock star. You were dating and how like you just kept thinking like I just have to be the cool girl. I just have to act like things don't bother me. And eventually they just won't. And like, we all have our breaking points, you know? And I like, I felt that that story where you're just like, I just have to swallow this. I just have to look the other way. And like, people will take men, we'll take advantage of you as long as you are willing to let them. To let them. Oh my God. Isn't that true? You're not going to let them. You're going to fuck them and then decide if you're going to keep them or you're just going to fuck them. And they're fine. Because sometimes it's just for the fuck. Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's just yeah. Also when he is fun, all the things with all the talks that guys before you settle down. Yes. That's so fun. Such good stories. Yeah. We've had this. Like if in your 20s, don't listen to the, like, yeah. The mean guys. Yeah. Turn it off. Turn off this hot. It'll make you a better print. I'll make you appreciate the other people later on. What was the thing that went viral? He was standing in front. Yes. My husband was very famous last year at the Grammys. So as you know, I'm on the road to fame. So my husband, Chris, is the EVP over at Rock Nation. So he runs the artist like all the music stuff over there. And so like he is a music editor. He's a very private. He has a private Instagram. He has, you can't Google him. The guy Christopher Knight from the Brady Bunch comes up. Okay. I'm like, there's like another Chris Knight in Nashville that makes music. That's not my Chris. Chris is very, he doesn't let me take pictures of him from my Instagram. He's very, very shy. And he is at the Grammys with one of his clients. And they're like in the pit, which is like where all the stars sit. And I've just done the Grammys red carpet live from me. Like my job, I crushed, I was in a naked dress. I was like, I'm back, bitches. I was like, I've never felt hot or in my life. I crushed, young bud was like licking me on the carpet. It was like incredible. I get back to my hotel to eat my fat burger and drink my diet coke. And I'm watching the Grammys. And I was like, is that Chris Knight? So Chris is six six, there's a minute where Trevor's in this crowd. And he's coming. He's coming back. And it's just Chris Knight walking across the screen. He walks across and then he sits down and then he stands right up in front of him. He's like looking around and like he just walked in front of the camera. But he said to me that Trevor was like over here and the camera was way off stage. So it wasn't like there was a camera for sure. He couldn't see the camera and he couldn't hear anything inside. >> Yeah, just sit. It's fun. Well, those stand in front of the camera. Just sit down. And then yeah, everyone gets here. No, those stand again in front of the camera. It was like a pirate DVD. What are you doing? >> So he was like, I don't know what was happening. And so he's sitting down and it went so viral. He was everywhere. The amount of phone calls we got because it just made it so much funnier because he's so private. >> Yeah. >> I would be like, I would be like, my God, I'm viral. Okay, I better be a people magazine exclusive to talk about my virality. Like I wouldn't suck it up, you know? >> Yes. >> And he was just like, my God, like he was mortified and he looked so hot. You guys, I was like, that's my man. >> That's my man. >> Honestly, the grandma's just a little slow last year. He was like, it was a spicy moment, but Trevor know is like, sit down. >> No, tall guy. >> Yeah, he's like tall guys. The funniest part is that HeyMesh, who's the director of the Grammys, literally knows Chris. Because they've worked together for years. So like, he could've cut away. But he was, I think he was fucking with him. >> That's so funny. >> I think it's a funny moment. Okay, Rain, let's talk about friendship. >> Yeah. >> I feel like I'm having a moment now. >> You wrote in the book, fuck. the perfect friend fantasy? And you, I mean, I know it's a little bit work, but like you and Jack and Becca, like you're open that you guys fight and that there's conflict and I think it's really, I think we have this idea of friendship and that we're all supposed to be this perfect friend and do the right thing and like, I don't know, I'm older, I get the more I'm like, life is messy and we make mistakes, we make apologize to things we did, but I wanna just talk about the info for the chapter. - Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I've learned, especially doing the Lady Gang podcast, is that people are having more trouble with their women friendships and their friendship breakups than they really are with their, there's a lot of advice for like a bad guy or a bad romantic relationship, but friends, you're just supposed to be like, a girl's girl and it all works out. And I've had just many disappointments with the Lady Gang in particular, we spent the first six or seven years being people would be like, do you guys fight? And we're like, not really, 'cause we didn't have anything to fight about. We were really successful in making tons of money, like everything was going great, you know what I mean? And then when you get into like the twilight of your business and things start to get hard and the business changes, like that's when the hard conversations have to have. I think the radical honesty is what's has saved us and saved many of my female friendships. I don't know if you guys have a similar situation, but like we, Becca will call me and she'll say something that is really hard to handle, but it's right. And then I have to suck it up and apologize, or I'll have to say, hey guys, we can't pay ourselves this month, I'm like, that sucks. Like those things happen. I think what I learned is I have this like theory in the book, like the box theory, which I know Tynx talks about in dating, but Justin Silvestre and my co-host at E came up to me. He's like, you get screwed up in friendships 'cause you have people in the wrong box. We were talking about this a little bit before. You think like your Hollywood acquaintance, like the person that you've met that you interviewed and you kind of are friendly with, like you think they're your friend, they're not your friend. Like that's an acquaintance. And then you think your friends are your best friends. Like you're confiding in the friend, the way you should with the best friend and then you're mad when the secret gets late. And then you're treating a best friend like a lifer. Like there's a best friend in a season. Like, you know, have you had like a work friend that you're so close with? Well, I mean, like people who are in offices are working corporate, like they have like a friend that like knows everything about their day-to-day life 'cause you see them every single day. - More than their other friends, yeah. - Yes, but they're not like your lifer. That's not like your college friend, the like bridesmaid at your wedding. Like that's a lifer. And so these boxes are different and you have to really put people in their correct boxes and treat them and invest in that friendship in that way. 'Cause I think we get upset when, oh my god, this person did something to me, but like it's an acquaintance, like your expectation, you're expecting them to treat you like a lifer. And they're not, they're an acquaintance. - I love that. And we've been having a lot of these conversations. This is just super relevant in our lives. And I'm obsessed with that. And just even just thinking about it. And sometimes those people, the red carpet person, whatever it is, they're just so fun. You're like, you have that like moment that you have with a guy sometimes. Those like love-bombing nights. Where you're like, this is like a kindred spirit. And it's just not. And the secrets you might tell them should have been stuff you, for me, I should be talking to my college friends about who were like the real, you know, like the real ones and know me on that level that they're like family, you know? So. - Did you have a situation when you're, I just was thinking like the most relevant thing for you. Like when your special comment came out, this would be like a great example. I have this book coming out, it's a similar thing. Like and you're like, okay, this is my thing that I'm really proud of. And I know that all these people are gonna show up for me and support it because they're all my friends and they all care about me. And it is some Hollywood people of like people you've interviewed or maybe people you've supported or promoted their shit on your top podcast. And then it's crickets and you're so hurt. Because you're like, wait, I made you famous or I not made you famous, but like-- - I put you on my Instagram story. - I put you on my Instagram story. - I linked your link. I supported you. I thought we were like a mutually beneficial thing here. - We talked about this a lot. - And it's very heartbreaking. - And I'm sorry, no matter what. Anybody says you notice and you remember and you know who promoted you and who didn't. And everybody knows this. I had a friend and comedy say this to me once. I don't usually share the whole conversation, but she said it and I was like, it is so true. And there was a few people that I was like, are they going to share this? 'Cause of what we and I have done for them. And I had just a few disappointments. All my real friends showed up. A people who had genuinely considered my real friends and my friends come to my house to watch it. And I did not feel slighted by someone I consider a real friend. There were people that I was like, that's noted. - That's noted. - People who have promoted their books, their comedy specials, not just had them on the show. It's usually beneficial to have a guest on this show. But like we have gone out of our way to promote them. And it is like really hurtful. And you're like, oh, we're not what I thought. But we were. - And it wasn't too many. I was pretty pleased in that front. And then there, again, there's just some women that are the real ones. And like you are one of course. And someone like Serena Carrigan, I just, I asked her, would you mind sharing this? She was like a million percent. I got you. And we're gonna have her on a second time when her book comes out. This feels good. It feels good to lift other women up and promote them and vice versa. I don't know. It's weird to not. But also I just wanna tell anybody who has anything. I mean, this might not be the most relatable conversation. But like you're not on everyone's mind all the time. You know, like I think you're like, but so and so didn't share. It's like they really might not have seen it. I mean, some people they probably did. But it doesn't hurt to ask. I mean, and I learned that with the special. There was a few people who I did ask. Like someone like Serena, who was not an actual close friend. And she was like, 100% I'll do it right now. You know, like I just, it doesn't hurt. But this is real life. This is your wedding. This is your baby shower. This is your new coffee table. This is your promotion on LinkedIn. This is, this actually, I were talking about in Hollywood terms, but this is real life for women. And like, yes, you cannot expect everyone to be as excited about your thing as whatever that thing is. But you can note and put people where they belong based on if they're not excited for you. - Yeah, you can. But I also think like it's, it's good to remember that not everybody thinks you need that and just to tell people what you need. You could at least try it that way. Like I think somebody looks at Ashley and they're just like she is this huge podcast. She is a huge Instagram following. She's been a comedian for a decade. Like why would she need me to promote this? She's so successful. And I think you have to ask for help sometimes. People are just look at you and they have you in this pedestal and they probably think like, well, why would she need this for me? - And that goes back to fuck pretending it's effortless. - Yeah, cause then you go back and you're like, hey, I want this to happen. I need your help. I'm not too cringe to ask you for support. - Yeah. - Yeah, don't be scared to ask. I love that. - It's actually really good. What's your take on cringe? To be cringe, own it. - I am cringe. But again, I don't think it's cringy to be cringe. - Yeah. - I mean, I think some things are cringe. Like I'm a 40-year-old woman wearing a puffy sleeve leopard baby doll dress. - No, I'm okay with this. - Should I wear that? - I'll wear it in the runway. Isn't that crazy? Anyway. - You need to do it all the time. - I love, I just, like, there's some things about me that are cringe and I'll admit that they're cringe, but effort is not one of them. Like, I just think it's so pathetic to, like, I'm never gonna be that girl that's like posting artsy photos on Instagram, getting three likes and not having it bother me. Like, baby, I'm following the trend. What? It's chic too. What? It's like, I'll, you know. - Like, like, like, documentary kind of sheep to all the things. - Doing all the online trends and like, the most cringey thing you can do is really want something for yourself and not go after it because you're fear of what other people are gonna think. 'Cause two things, they're either gonna love it, they're gonna hate it, they're not thinking about you. And that's it. And so like, you can throw out the bottom two. And like, yeah. I just, I don't, I don't really care about being cringe. - I love a cringe person. - Yeah. I know, like, those trends, like, I was like, yeah, I really don't wanna see another kind of sheep, but let people live. Like, I don't know, I hate that like, the criticism that think pieces of like, if I see one more of these trends, oh my God, people, let them have fun. - People have fun. - People make sourdough bread, who care? - Thank you, make a sourdough. - If I see one more of those Netflix sit-down documentary, I'm like, get off the internet. You don't know who to make use of this either. Just get off the internet. - I'm just doing the same stuff. I, could be more of a fun. - Because also like, not all of us are creative geniuses. Some of us just want to copy. Some of us need to copy. I have no original ideas. - Copy, please, this is the original idea. - You know, actually the devil horn cover is made by a drag queen, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I have some okay ideas. - How are you feeling about like, the process being done, what like, overall looking back like, how are you feeling about writing this book by yourself? - The Fuck Them Theory is the most important thing I've ever done in my life, which means I know it's gonna fail miserably. (laughing) 'Cause I care so much. 'Cause I want it to be good, so bad. I think it's the best thing I've ever done in my entire career. And I really want people to read it. Like, I actually, I really appreciate your kind words, but I actually do think it's great, which is so terrifying. A lot of what I've done in my life has been kind of like, okay, and like, I pretended it was great. This is actually really great. And I'm terrified, but also, I wrote it for everyone else and I want people to read it and take something from it. But really, this was my cleansing. I was in a very bad place when I started writing this book, which I started about in the introduction. I was in a very bad place and I have sort of crawled tooth and nail out of my own personal version of hell to be in a much better place, a much happier place. And this is that purge. And I went through it with the reader and did it in real time. And I want people to have big, beautiful, fabulous, messy, complicated, unhinged, fearless lives. - Oh, Kelly, are you glad to be here? - This has just really been such a pleasure. - Yeah. - We encourage people to order this for pre-fail. - Yes, the book is on pre-sell right now, fthembook.com. - Okay. - And I'm also going on tour, so I have 16 dates. I'm doing that. - Oh my gosh. - And it's really cool because I'm having like, I'm doing Chicago, I'm doing Philly. I'm having like a guest moderator and music in every city. So like my best friend, Christina Parris, thousand years, she's gonna be my moderator and like do a little mini concert in cities and then Nathan's since playing in San Francisco. - Oh my gosh. What a deep cut. - Yeah, it's gonna be, I know. He's my celebrity crush. - He is? - He's my number one life. - Oh, he's great. - I would leave Chris Knight for it. Just kidding, I wouldn't. But would I? - No, I wouldn't. - Chris knows. - Chris knows. - Yeah, Chris will go to a Matt Nathan's in concert with me and watch me be like. - Yeah. - Anyway, yeah. So I'm going on tour and I'm just really excited about it and you can get the book anywhere, though. - Okay. - Okay. - Great. - There are show notes, it's the cover is great and follow you at Kelti. - Kelti. - I'm the only one made in the Lady Game podcast. - Yeah. - Yeah, I love having you. - I'm gonna post a picture of you guys performing in the rain as promotion for this episode. Just, yeah, exactly. I know, sometimes you guys all get tagged and something from Lady Gang and I'm like, oh, it's just from Lady World. - It's just me. - I love that time. I got to wear Air Force ones to perform. We've performed hundreds and hundreds of times. It's my dream to wear sneakers and I finally got to do it thanks to you. - Yeah. What you guys put on was incredible. - Yeah. - We have talked about in podcast. - Well. - And you guys know where to find us girls got to eat.com. Girls got to eat podcast Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess, Instagram and TikTok. Rain is Rain at a Greenberg Rain at Greenberg.com for her upcoming tour date. - Oh yeah. - Comment on tour. - You can watch full video on spotifying YouTube, subscribe, leave a comment, share it with a friend and we will see you Thursday. Have a good week guys. - Bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)