The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel (Part 1)

Hey weirdos, I'm Alena, I'm Ash, and this is morbid.com. [MUSIC] [LAUGH] >> Elfie, I want to talk about something important, what? >> Wendy's. >> What? Do you know how I always tell you guys that the foe foe is the way to go? Like I used to tell you guys that it's been a while. >> I was going to say it's been a while. >> What did I get today? I'm looking it up. It had a pretzel bun, I know that. It's the pretzel bun sandwich and it has like beer cheese, I'm sounding real big right now. But it had beer cheese on it and pickles and fried onions. And it was the most beautiful thing I think I've ever eaten in my life. >> Good. It was good, I didn't, I could only eat half of it, but I get spicy nugs. >> I think you guys should go to Wendy's right now and get that sandwich. >> Get it, we're not sponsored by Wendy's. >> We're not sponsored by Wendy's. >> Never have been. >> You know who is, Lisa Barlow. And you can also get the baby gorgeous meal. >> [LAUGH] >> I would like to talk about how I'm a little bit disappointed that the baby gorgeous meal is just a 10 piece chicken nugget. >> Yeah, I mean I don't, I don't know anything about Lisa Barlow or why it's called the baby gorgeous meal or. >> Okay, I'm going to tell you something of that sort. >> Lisa Barlow is from Salt Lake City Housewives. She loves fast food, you would love her because she loves Taco Bell too, love that. But she loves Wendy's and one time her child who she was picking up from school got in her car and she said, "Hi, baby gorgeous." >> [LAUGH] >> And now she has the baby gorgeous meal at Wendy's, the end. >> Honestly, baby gorgeous is a great way to talk to your child. >> Yeah. >> And if you sound like her, it's even better. >> Yeah, baby gorgeous. >> [LAUGH] >> And she recently released a song called Baby Gorgeous. >> Wow, okay. >> Where she says, you're just baby gorgeous. >> Wow, it sounds just like really missed out, I guess you did. >> But I would say don't get that meal because it's kind of a boring order. >> Shit, I would say- >> I would say it's coming for you. >> No, don't come for me, Lisa. >> Don't, Lisa, I don't know who you are, but don't. >> I was friends with Angie first, so there you go. >> Period. >> But I would get the pretzel bun sandwich. >> I love a pretzel bun. >> So, I'm with you on that. >> You got a good-looking frosty over there. I swear this is a sponsored frosty, it really isn't. >> But if they'd like to, I'd come up with a meal. >> This is our plea. >> Can you imagine more videos? >> The more videos. >> My God. >> Wendy's, you can have a big thing going for you. >> I mean, and it doesn't even just have to be our listeners. Morbid is pretty. >> It's pretty, like, all in one type of thing. >> Yeah, anything can be morbid. >> And for the season of October, it's literally spooky season. >> Yeah. >> Wendy's. >> I think we should get on it. >> I'm making a plea. >> Personally. >> I've been talking about you guys. >> For years. >> It's true. >> Yeah. >> If you saw "For For For Sales" go up in like 2019, baby, that was baby gorgeous. That was me. >> And if you heard people roll up on that speaker and say, "I have a foe foe." Then you know where it came from. >> Because I never called it a foe foe. >> A foe foe. >> A foe foe. >> So. >> Yeah. >> So that's that. >> I don't know. >> We didn't intend for that to go like that. >> No. >> What's up? >> Yeah. I'm rewatching Windows Bay, and it's just as good. It's even better. >> Are you noticing things that you did at the first time? >> I am. >> I'm starting to. We just started, but like, I'm also, it's the funniest fucking show. >> No, it's so good. >> Like that show is brilliant. I will shout it from the rooftops. >> I love that show. >> I love that show. >> But she's saying, "You had your qualms?" >> You had your qualms? >> It's so fucking good. >> Like that episode of "Sunset Cocktails" with Patricia, "Well, that's the best episode." >> I'll never get over it. >> Have we talked about before? Was it Paul Tremblay's wife who told us that you can get, you can get the-- >> Oh, the playlist. >> Yeah, it's on Spotify. >> It's on Spotify. >> Yeah, I listened to it. It's great. >> It is. Yeah, we listened to it recently. >> It's an awesome playlist. It's on Spotify. >> Remember, we were listening to it, and the girls were like, "What the fuck is this?" >> They were like, "What is going on?" >> Like, "What are you dancing to?" >> It's just like '90s R&B. >> It's great. >> It's awesome. >> Patricia knew what she was doing. >> She did. Patricia for life. And, you know, I don't know how to segue into what we're going to talk about. >> Unfortunately, it's not going to be nearly as fun as Wendy's faux-fafo's pretzel buns or Patricia. >> No. In Roland, you can hit the counter. >> Roland. >> I like it. >> I like it. >> I will say somebody commented who does the time counts that I saw, and they were like, "You guys are really funny." Starts at this time. And I was like, "At least thank you for the compliment." >> Hey, I mean, I'm glad you're enjoying the beginning. >> I think so. >> They like being called out. >> Yeah. We're just giving you your flowers. >> Yeah. >> You're doing a service. >> This one's for you. >> It's a Roland. >> It's for Roland. >> Today, because it's spooky season, it's Proctober. >> It's Proctober, everybody. >> Proctober. >> Which stands for pre-October. >> Exactly. >> In case you didn't know. >> John Proctober. >> Yes. >> It's nasty. >> Exactly. >> So today, we're going to talk about an exorcism. >> Ooh. >> This is a pretty famous one. >> Yeah. >> It's a pretty gnarly one. >> They usually are. >> They always are, I feel. And this one is going to be two parts because there is just so much. >> A two-part exorcism. >> It's a very intense case. >> Fuck. >> We're talking about the exorcism of Annalise Michele. >> Oh, I don't think I know this one. >> This one is valid. >> It's a wild one. >> And she got possessed. Tell me everything. >> It's, this one's wild because as, I will state several times, every single religious person around her, like, priests, anybody like that, we're like, yeah, I don't think you're possessed. >> No way. >> And that they were like, no, we are. Like the family was like, absolutely, this is what's going on. >> I feel like that doesn't always show that way. >> No, it doesn't. Usually the priests come and they're like, Damon's, but this one was like, no, I think you should see a doctor. >> Did Edin Lorraine Warren find her? >> No, because this isn't Germany. >> Edin Lorraine didn't even find her. >> They didn't get to-- >> Wow. >> They didn't get into this one. >> This is a different kind of exorcism. >> This one's from the 70s. >> Okay. >> So it's in Germany. So I think Edin Lorraine didn't get their, their gnarly little claws into this one. >> All right. >> That's shocking. >> Let's talk about who Annelise was, because this one's also really tragic. Because when you hear about Annelise, you're like, wow, you had like a lot going for you. >> Oh, yeah. >> Like you were like a pretty good, like a pretty good childhood. Like was really on a good path, and then it just kind of, something happened. >> That's interesting, too, because I feel like a lot of times like it's usually a more tragic case even beforehand. >> Yeah, because you feel like it maybe like thrives on a little chaos or tragedy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like the demon or whatever it is. >> So Annelise Elizabeth Michele, which she liked to be called Annelise, not Annelise Elizabeth. >> Okay. >> She was born September 21st, 1952 in Bavaria, West Germany. She was the second of five children to Josef and Annel Michele. According to anthropologist Felicitas Goodman, the Michele's were a stable, frugal, industrious, slow-moving German middle-class family, more peasant than urban. >> He used the most amount of adjectives you could possibly use to describe a family. >> He would have probably been accused of using AI there. >> Because I was like just a lot of comparison. >> And not one of them was super kind to know, not at all, just wow. >> Slow-moving. You know, just somebody described your entire family as slow-moving, like okay, fuck you. >> They were also deeply, devoutly Catholic. In fact, it was only because of poor grades in Latin class that Josef did not become a priest to himself. >> No. >> He got to know the Latin to be a priest. >> He got to know the Latin to come a priest. You need to, don't read the Latin, but know the Latin. Now, despite the pretty like-idealic environment in which Annalise was raised, her childhood was dominated by her parents' rigid adherence to Catholicism. And much of their social lives were built around the church, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm just saying that was part of it. >> Yeah. >> In both school and home, educational and religious lessons focused heavily on biblical tales of battles between good and evil, in which the children were raised to know the names of various demonic entities. And there was an emphasis on the role that humans play in the ongoing struggle. So it was put in there pretty early. >> Yeah. Planted the seed. >> Seed was planted. And the only recorded discussion between a young Annalise and a local priest, Arnold Renns, the two can be heard talking about the terrible fate that awaits those who align themselves with the forces of evil. >> Annalise? >> Yeah. And you can hear Annalise say, "Hell must be monstrously horrible." And then they just kind of moved on to any subject. >> So she already had that like fear of hell, she had that fear of demons, she knew a lot about demons. Like, when I was little, I was so scared of hell. That's wild. >> Yeah. Which is funny, because I didn't grow up super religious. >> Yeah. >> But I like went to church sometimes. >> Yeah. >> Like on my dad's side, every now and again, and it's usually like a pretty hot topic. >> Oh, they loved talking about that. >> Yeah. >> They loved talking about that. >> Yeah. >> We went to like a church that started with a P. Like the religion was a P. I don't remember which one it was. >> Presbyterian? Probably. >> Probably Presbyterian. Puritan? It's not in Santa. >> I didn't go to that one. >> I didn't see in Putnam there, but I was scared of hell. >> There was also the very real and recent specter that hung over post-war Germany at the time of Annalise's birth. >> Oh, yeah. >> Clearly, her father was in the army and spent time in a prisoner of war camps, so whether it was his experience in the war or just the era in which he was raised, Josef took his role as a father and a provider. and his eyes very seriously. -Yeah. -He ran his household, like he ran his business, with an emphasis on tradition, obedience, not a ton of, like, love- -You know, just, like, fuzzy warm feelings. That's not to suggest that he didn't care for his children. In fact, according to Goodman, Annalise and her sister, quote, "sensed his passionate love for them." But he was very stern, and he had very high expectations. And, again, he demanded obedience, especially from his children. -Okay. -Now, obedience is a wild word for children. -Yeah. That's more for an animal. -Even animals are always, like, that's crazy. -Yeah. -I'm like, my dog is like, "Oh, my." I know I was going to say, "My dog's not so much, but maybe someone else's." Now, the family was pretty close. There were three younger siblings, three younger sisters. Annalise had ready access, and I think she had had one sibling who had passed away. -Oh, okay. -Annalise had ready access to playmates whenever she wanted them. It's not like she was isolated in the house or anything like reading a Bible. -That's good. -But she also struggled with, like, kind of poor health in her early years, and she was prone to getting infections. After the death of their first daughter to illness, Annalise's parents became understandably hyper-vigilant when it came to her health. -Yeah, I'm sure. -I get that. Her mother would often tell people to explain her daughter's poor health. She would say, "I was still weak when I carried her." -Oh. -Now, fortunately, by the time she reached her early teens, Annalise seemed to be growing out of those health problems that she'd experienced. In 1965, she started participating in sports. She started making new friends, like, -Nice. -Was really growing and developing how they expected her to be. -Oh, yeah. Her friend, Maria, said she was just like the rest of us. She was a jolly girl participating in the schoolgirl pranks and jokes. -Fun. -And when she wasn't with friends, she was at home helping her parents keep up with the younger girls. Her father told Felicitos Goodman, Annalise had a way of just glowing with joy. -Oh. -So, he clearly loved her. -Yeah, like, they speak of her, like, a loving parent would. -Yeah. -Now, by the time she reached high school, Annalise's health problems seemed to be entirely gone. -She really was really adept at academics. She was really good at sports. And her mother used to brag about her. She would say, "She's so good. She will very likely become a schoolteacher one day." -Oh. -And that was what she wanted to do. -Okay. -Her commitment to her education was clearly like showing that she was ambitious. And, like, her parents, she wanted more for herself than to just work the family business, keep the books for her father, just, like, working shops in town. -Yeah. -She had dreams, baby. -Now, as she entered further into her teen years, obviously, her life got a little more complicated when it came to boys. -Yeah. -As it does. -Oh, honey. -It's a natural part of growing up in a near-constant part of the human experience to suddenly realize that other humans are striking your fancy. -Yes. -I loved how you put that. -Now, but in a small village, like, Klingenberg. -Obsessed. -Absolutely. -I will not let that pass by. I'm upset. Klingenberg. Klingenberg. -Klingenberg. -Yeah. Klingenberg. -Let's fucking go. -Religion dominated a lot of that human existence. -Maybe let's not go. -And, you know, sexuality, especially for girls and young women, was something of a mind field, especially at that time. -Yeah. -As the boys and girls in the village started mixing at school, church, other social events. Parents became increasingly paranoid about what was going to happen if they were left alone. Annalise's mother would remind her of the old adage. And I know you're all going to say, "Oh, that old chestnut." Is it the cow in the milk? -No. -No? -This one's a lot. A girl's honor is like a white sheet. Every spot shows. -I don't think I know that one. -You know that one. Me neither. -Wow. -I mean, it's not as bad as the cow in the milk for free. -I don't know. -Damn. -Yeah. So there's that. -More often than not, her mother could successfully keep her from going to dances or other social functions by reminding her of her fragile health that she once had and warning her that she might get sick again if she pushed herself too hard. -Okay. -So they were a little over the top of their vigilant. -Yeah. -Now, when the school years started in 1968, Annalise was excited about the future. And according to her friend Maria, she spoke endlessly about attending college in Wordsburg and becoming a teacher. -Cool. -But a few weeks after her 16th birthday, everything started to change. -Oh, no. -Now, one afternoon in early October, Annalise inexplicably passed out while sitting in class. -Oh. -Now, she didn't, it wasn't this dramatic thing. She kind of just like slumped forward on her desk. And her friend Maria was like, she's like, "I thought she just fell asleep." -Yeah. -So she poked her arm like, "Hey, you gotta wake up." -And Annalise slowly raised her head and looked like she was in a days, though. -Huh. -And she told Maria, "Maybe I studied too much." And she really didn't think much about it. Like, she kind of thought she fell asleep, I guess. -Okay. -Just went about the day as normal. But later that night, she had another experience she couldn't explain. -Mm. -A little after midnight, Annalise was woken from her sleep and felt like she was being held down by a powerful unseen force. -Hate that. -The weight of whatever was holding her down was so strong that she couldn't move a muscle. And in a moment in a panic, Annalise tried to call out for help, but when she opened her mouth, no sound came out. -Sounds like sleep paralysis. -Thank you. -I said, "I too feel that feeling." -Yeah. -I know that. The pressure on her abdomen, though, this is where it changes a little bit. -She said there was pressure. It felt like something was pressing down on her. -And you don't feel that way. -When I've experienced sleep paralysis, it might be different for other people. -I'm not trying to say my experience is universal. -I just feel like I can't move. -Okay. -I don't feel like something is physically holding you down me. -Okay. -Hold pressure on me. I just feel like I can't move or yell. -She had a lot of pressure. And the pressure on her abdomen was so intense that she could feel herself involuntarily urinating. -Oh. -Yeah. -Which is intense. -Yeah, that's more than this. -That's different, I would think. -Now, later, when Annalise described the incident, she believed she was dying. -Oh, wow. -Like that's how scary it was. Then she heard the clock at the nearby church sound at the quarter hour, like the bells. -Mm-hmm. -And the pressure just disappeared. And the only evidence that anything had happened at all was her slightly sore tongue, because she said she was like biting and trying to like move her mouth. -And that she had like what the bed? -Yeah, wow. -That morning, Annalise told her mother that she must have been sick the night before and she was allowed to stay home from school. -Okay. -Because of her history of poor health, there was no reason to risk anything. And by the end of the day, she was feeling like herself. -Okay. -They just were like, that was weird. -Yeah, like fluke illness, I guess. -Now, the rest of the school year passed by without incident. But on August 24th, 1969, it happened again, just as it had the previous year. That afternoon, Annalise experienced a sort of like strange blacking out. It wasn't like she briefly fallen asleep. But it was like a moment where, and this is a quote, it was sad and did not know what she was about to do. That night, she was awoken from her sleep with the same feeling of paralysis again, same kind of feelings. She couldn't move her arms and legs and felt as if she was being held down. She tried to scream and nothing came out. The next morning, she told her mother about the experience and she was immediately on the phone to the doctor to arrange for her to be seen. As a general practitioner, the doctor was like, "Yeah, I can't really explain what's going on here." So he referred to her to a neurologist, which is valid, smart. And then afternoon, she and her mother traveled to Aschefenberg to the office of Dr. Sigfried Luffy. Along the way, Annalise's mother was so anxious, like couldn't control her anxiety. She was ringing her hands. She kept sighing, and she told her daughter, "Dr. Vote said it might be something with your brain. Let's not talk about this to anyone outside the family. You know how people talk." Also, like, I just think about the fact that she's already lost a child, and I can't imagine what was going through her brain. Yeah, that's the thing. And then it's like the whole stigma of like something might be going on with your brain. And we don't want anyone to know about it. It's like that's not her fault. No, not at all. But, you know, Dr. Luffy turned out to be a curt, but a very highly competent specialist who ran through all the usual tests with Annalise. But based on his evaluation, he said he couldn't see anything wrong with her. In fact, he later told police investigators, which told you where this goes. Neurologically and psychologically, all findings were negative. Like, nothing wrong. Yeah. But Annalise and her mother both seemed very distressed, so he asked them to return the following week for an EEG test. The tests, though, proved no more insightful than any of the other exams. The results showed a perfectly normal 16-year-old girl. Wow. Now, regardless of the negative test results, obviously, Annalise was describing two potentially concerning experiences that could have an origin in the brain that the EEG and other previous texts just weren't picking up on. Yeah. Like, they realized that. Like, you know, possibly didn't even know about yet. Yeah. Like, there's a very real possibility. Dr. Luffy said, "I judged from the description I was given that this was probably a case of cerebral seizures of the nocturnal type with the symptoms of a grand mal epilepsy." Oh, fuck. Now, what happened next seems to be a matter of some speculation, though. And a letter written by the doctor to investigators in 1976. He indicated that he was. prescribed centropil, an anti-convulsant drug. - Okay. - Now, any schedule to follow up appointment with her, that's what he wrote in a letter to investigators in 1976. - Okay. - But when he was questioned by police a short time later, Dr. Luffy insisted he had not yet prescribed her any medication. And instead, he just recommended her further observation since only two attacks occurred within an interval of a year. - Okay. - So that's like, what happened there? - Yeah. - And was there any evidence that she was on that medicine that anybody knows about? - Well, that's why it's relevant to talk about because the timing of the medication has the relevance because it could coincide with her rapid decline in health. - If she was on that medicine? - If she didn't need it. - Oh, I see. (upbeat music) (gentle music) - Now, upon returning to school for the new year, just a few weeks after her visit to Dr. Luffy, Annalise was noticeably unwell. First, she complained of a chronic sore throat, which ultimately resulted in her tonsils being removed. - Oh, and that surgery when you're older is supposed to be like an orthographic. - Not long after the surgery, she couldn't contract in pleuracy, which is inflammation of the lungs, and pneumonia, which soon became complicated by tuberculosis infection. - Now, recovering from those illnesses required obviously long periods of bed rest. So Annalise had to withdraw from school and from all social events that holiday season. By January, her condition had shown not really a lot of signs of improvements. So she was admitted to the hospital in Oshavenburg in early February. - I mean, TB is no joke alone. And then I can't imagine pairing that with pneumonia. And then will she still continuing to have the experiences that she was having where she was waking up with the pressure? - I don't think she was having those at the same time, but by the end of February, she was still not showing adequate signs of improvement. So she was transferred to a sanatorium in the mountain town of Middleburg, which specialized in respiratory illness for children. - Okay. And that's what it was referred to as as a sanatorium. - Yeah. - Although this place was full of patients her same age, she did find the experience very isolating and depressing. - I'm sure. - 'Cause you're also being moved away from your whole family and your sisters and your friends. - Like she had never been like an exceedingly social person like it over the top, but she was accustomed to being around a large family who laughed and sang together and had nice times. - And like you said, she did sports and that kind of thing. - Yeah, but the, and the other girls at the sanatorium weren't unkind to her in any way, but they seemed to have already formed a bond. By the time she arrived, they had been there already. So they weren't really interested in giving her a big welcome into the group. - Well, that's sad. - And the thing-- - And the thing, 'cause everybody's feeling shitty. - Yeah, that's very tough. - No one's feeling good. And the isolation was made worse by the regular letters that she was receiving from everyone at home. They had obviously intended to cheer her up. - Yeah. - But under the circumstances, it just kind of made her realize what she was missing out on, which is sad. - They're like, "Hey, we're doing all this shit. How's the sanatorium weird?" - Where nobody's hanging out with you like that sucks. - That's fucked up. - Now, by spring, her condition had improved somewhat. - Okay. - But the doctors were concerned about some potential heart problems and insisted she remain at the sanatorium. - Okay. - Then in June 1970, she had another inexplicable attack. - Oh. - It all happened the way it had before. Stiffness in her arms and legs, a feeling of being crushed, involuntary urination, an ability to scream. - Is this indicative of like another illness at all? - It feels like a seizure. - Now that we would know about it. - It does feel a little bit like a seizure. - But she's supposed to possibly have been on anti-seizure medication? - And that's where the-- - But they're weird. - We're not sure. - 'Cause there's like that conflicting information. - That's weird. - Yeah. - It's very weird. - And also, you would think that there would be like a prescription history, especially the time that she was at the hospital. - Yeah. - I mean, it was in the '60s and '70s, so I don't know. - Yeah, I don't know how that works. - And in Germany, I don't know how it could be different. - I'm like, when you think there'd be like a log, you would think so, but I do not know. But eventually, the paralysis weakened enough that Annalise let loose a terrifying scream that woke up all the other girls in the dormitory and brought the night nurse running to her. But by the time the nurse arrived, the entire episode was over. Now a few days later, just past dinner time, Annalise was sitting outside, saying the rosary. And she did that every night when she was home. And it was around dusk and the sun was setting over the mountains. And she said, "For the first time since she arrived there, she could see the beauty in her surroundings." - No. - Suddenly. - She had this moment of just peace and like clarity. And she said, "After so much stress and upset in the previous year, she felt a noticeable sense of calm wash over her." - All right. - It was like something had changed. From behind her, she could hear a bunch of the girls talking and eventually she realized that they were talking about her. And one of the girls asked loudly, "What were you doing?" And Annalise was like, "I'm praying the rosary." But they were like, "No, we know what that is." And they were like, "What are you doing with your hands?" - Okay. - Like what were you doing? And Annalise must have looked confused because one of the girls explained, "We were watching you like you had a cramp or something, like when my cat stretches her claws, like you had paws or something." - What? - And Annalise didn't realize it, but she must have been clenching and unclenching her hands, which from a distance looked as though she was holding them in like a claw, like, "Okay." And then another girl said, "In your eyes, I thought they were blue, now they're all black." - What the fuck? - Now Annalise just laughed them off, but she got up and went to a mirror, and her eyes weren't black, not exactly, but they did look a much darker shade of blue than what they normally were, okay. And she said her complexion had also appeared to have improved slightly. Like are not even slightly significantly, to be honest, 'cause her face had been super pale and very sickly looking. - Yeah. - But she said she looked at herself that afternoon, and she was rosy and flush like her circulation was suddenly turned on. - That's very strange. - Yeah. - Now the feeling of calmness lingered for a few days. She felt very calm until she was informed that she was being taken by train to see a new specialist for more tests to find out whether her neurological condition had changed. - Okay. - This time, Annalise saw a new doctor, Dr. Von Holler, who conducted another EEG. This time, the test showed a slight irregularity, but nothing so abnormal that it would have caused the symptoms previously described by Annalise. But again, the symptoms she described did closely resemble a form of epilepsy. - Yeah. - So Dr. Von Holler prescribed anti-convulsive medication. - So now we know for sure. - Yeah. Now in the days after the appointment with Dr. Von Holler, Annalise spent her evenings looking out at the mountains and praying the rosary and trying to call up that feeling of warmth that she had a week before. And it was during one of those late afternoons as she was sitting by the windows praying that it happened. Eyes closed. She ran through the prayer. She said countless times before. Then without warning, something came over her. She said like a flash of lightning. She opened her eyes and looked out the window and she saw a frotzen or a huge, cruelly grimacing face of a horizon, which is the scariest shit I could conceive of. - Like in the distance? - Yeah. - Like on the horizon, a huge, cruelly grimacing face. - Oh. - Yeah. - Hate that. - The terrifying face disappeared as quickly as it had appeared, but it left her with so much unease. - Yeah. - She had always found solace in her religious beliefs and prayer, but now every time she attempted to pray, she thought of that horrible evil face and found herself unable to finish a single prayer. Now, in addition to the stress of her illness in this chaotic shared living arrangement she was in, she felt super bad anxiety and like a lot of fear, especially associated around prayer, which used to be her like solace, that's really sad. And she really wanted to pray to try to like restore that sense of order into her life 'cause that's like her routine. She's out of it now, like that's hard, but she worried that what was gonna happen if she tried to do it. - Okay. - Jeez, later she put her rosary in her bedside drawer and didn't retrieve it again until she left the sanatorium. - That's really sad. - It is really sad. Now, she remained there for six more weeks and every day was filled with loneliness and dread. It was not good. Although she had stopped praying, that didn't stop the face from reappearing every once in a while. So, and it was always without warning or her doing anything that would bring it about. Each time the menacing thing showed itself in different places, she would feel sick and like a pit in her stomach. - I don't know anything about anti seizure medication or anti convulsant. What is it, anti convulsant? - Anti convulsant medication, but makes you wonder, like because the fact that that doctor, like now we know he prescribed it, makes you wonder if she was even on anything previously. And now if she suddenly is, could that be like a potential side effect? - That's what I'm wondering. I'm like, I'm looking at him now, 'cause I need to see. - Yeah. It's a very rare side effect, but it can happen. - Okay, like hallucinations. - Yeah. - So it very well could have been just, she was one of the rare people who got this. - 'Cause I mean, Charity has a rare case to begin with, it sounds like. - Yeah, that's the thing. So, and she said every time she saw the faces, it looked like it, or the face, it would look like it, it felt like it wanted something from her. - That would scare the shit out of me. - Yeah. But one afternoon, not long before leaving the sanatorium, the face appeared again. And this time it was accompanied by a terrifying thought. She said she wondered to herself, "What if that monstrous shape were really in me?" Oh, yeah. Now, after being discharged on August 29th, 1970, she returned home, but the family immediately noticed that something was different. She was moody, she was irritable, more withdrawn than she had ever been. And she went to the doctor for a follow-up a few weeks later. She told Dr. Von Holler that she had been experiencing some dizziness, but she did not say anything about the face that she was seeing. Well, she was probably worried about sounding like silly. Yeah. That's the thing. And she really didn't say anything about the depression having gotten worse since the last visit, so she wasn't giving the full picture. Returning to school that fall proved to be also something of a disappointment. And at least told a friend, "I thought I was going to be happy going back to school. Now I'm worried." Oh. She had always been seen school as kind of like a happy place. Like she had fun in school, but now that she was at least a year behind her peers, she felt like there was no way she could catch up. And then since she'd been at the sanatorium, there were several new additions to her social circle, and she kind of felt out of place, which was behind everyone. And she's already spent so much time feeling that way at the sanatorium, like now she's home feeling that way. And that's also just our fucking tough age to be a general. Yeah, in general. It's a mind-fuck too. Oh, you don't really get social situations like that. Her friend Karen Gora said she was quiet and serious, a loner if not an outsider, introverted and dreamy. Oh. Her friend Maria said after her illness, Analyse was changed. She was quiet and withdrew from her friends. I also noted that she kept wanting to carry on mostly religious conversations. Eventually, the new girls in her friend group began labeling her as, quote, a religious nut. Okay. That's not really a nice thing to call someone. That's not great. Now by the end of the first semester, Analyse's salon and with Ron emotional state had become obvious to pretty much everyone around her. Once a really great student with a promising future, that first year back at school, she was just getting like average grades. She wasn't like tanking, but she wasn't doing what she was, you know, what her promise was. Acting on orders from the doctors at the Sanatorium, Analyse's mother took her to a follow-up appointment with a lung specialist where she again failed to mention her declining mental health and hallucinations, telling the doctor she was fine. That said, during the exam, the doctor had some concerns about Analyse's circulation and wrote up a referral for yet another specialist, a doctor pack houseer nearby Miltonberg. The mere mention of another new doctor was more than she can handle at the time. She said to her mother, "All I ever do is sit around in doctor's offices. I wish I could be rid of the lot of them and just live like other girls." Yeah, it's depressing. They'd like breaks my heart. Now during the 1970s, the medical field's understanding of seizures was definitely undergoing a significant re-evaluation. Okay. Since it was believed to be the product of mental illness or some other external thing. By the time Analyse began seeing specialists for her condition, the general consensus was that seizures were neurological condition and were treated by a neurologist. Right. So this wasn't the time where they were like, "You got Damon's, didn't you?" Yeah. Yeah. But when it came to Analyse, it seemed like every doctor she saw, regardless of their specialty, was more interested in her seizures than they were the problem she had gone to them to have treated. They just kept referring back to a seizure. Yeah. Dr. Packhouser, for example, dismissed the concerns about her circulation and she was sent to him for that. Yeah. And instead wrote a letter to the family physician, Dr. Vote, in which he over-represented the numbers of seizures that she had that year. Why would you do that? There was only two that she had, technically had. Anti-overlabeled their severity. He labeled them apoplectic, which is like very violent. Yeah. Now, as is sometimes the case in situations like this, the tragic outcome is usually the results of multiple failures. Oh, yeah. We've seen that happen how many times? Both institutional, social, familiar, familial, and just like poor communication. Yeah. Whether it's intentional or not. Like, that's the thing. I'm not saying everybody had this, like, mal intent here. No. It's just things are starting to spiral. It's like a bad game of telephone. Exactly. Now, Annelise had several health problems which may have exacerbated one another, but they weren't necessarily related. So it's like, you got to treat these things how they come. And in some cases, the problems didn't mention like the depression, that she didn't mention, excuse me, like the depression and the hallucinations. They were, at times, far more concerning than the physical ailments, but she wasn't saying anything. I would think the hallucinations would be the biggest thing. Yeah. I mean, I think maybe she wasn't saying it because mental health at that time also wasn't taken as seriously as it is today. But it's more, but it's also possible that if she did mention it, that they might have been more interested in the neurological side, you know. But then you have to think too, like, she is being treated at a time where you just said, like, it's just the belief of seizures is just starting this one, so she already knows about the stigma beforehand. You know what I mean? And that's the thing. It's like, so she doesn't want to be seen as like losing her mind. Exactly. Yeah. Now, when Dr. Vote received the letter from Pat Couser urging him to refer her to another neurologist, the doctor dismissed the recommendation, assuming it wasn't necessary. And instead, he prescribed another anti-convulsive medication. Oh, man. The drug may have helped to prevent any new seizures, but it didn't do a lot to help her growing despondency, which was growing worse by the day. And if it's a stronger medication, which I'm assuming here, but I would think it is because then that previous doctor had like over, you know, overdone the prescription is having in the prescription. It's like, is that then just making it exacerbating everything? Yeah. That's a thing. She Annelise told a young doctor at the Institute for Psychopathy during an evaluation in the fall of 1973. In the last years of school, 1972 and 1973, I just didn't care beans about anything anymore. Sometimes I don't care beans about things like this. Honestly, I was like, no true or words sometimes. I've never heard that and I love it. Now, despite having graduated and been accepted to college, Annelise found that she was apathetic about everything. Which I like. To take a step back and to realize everything she was going through, the fact she got accepted to college. Graduated and got accepted is huge. Like good for her. Well, and what she's experiencing and what she's describing, like just like the whole like I just feel apathetic. Yeah. And I just didn't care. Mm-hmm. It's so like relatable to a lot of people, like, especially, and we know a lot more now about what those feelings mean in depression. And like, like she said later, I was able to perceive, but not to experience. Oh. That's depression. Absolutely. That's deep depression. Now we know so much more about it, to be able to, and you just want to put her in a time machine and bring her here. I know. I think we'll take care of you, babe. And obviously, not that we're really killing it and mental health now, I'm just saying we know a lot more. No, we're doing better than we were back then, I think. Yeah. Now, by the fall of 1973, her anxiety had become what was crippling. Yeah, she continued to insist to everyone around her that she was fine. She was trying to blend in, like, go through. Despite her insistence, though, her mother knew something was wrong. She said, how about all those times when all of a sudden you become stiff, or when you no longer know where you are? And her mother's comment about stiffness and disorientation indicated that regardless of what she said to her doctors or her family, she was still experiencing seizures. And they were happening clearly with increased frequency for her mother to bring it up, like that. But that was just the beginning of her ordeal. And the worst was definitely yet to come. Now, through the later part of 1972 and into '73, Anna Lee saw several more specialists, but little came out of the evaluations. In September 1972, she saw Dr. Luffy, the neurologist again, who performed an EEG, because remember, he wanted to do that again, but found nothing and ultimately increased her anti-convulsive medication. Why would you do that if you haven't found anything? There was also an ear, nose, and throat specialist, a pulmonologist, psychotherapist, and psychiatrist, and several more visits to Dr. Vote. Okay. Yet in all those appointments, Anna Lee gave little more information than necessary and often omitted important details all together to get the fuck out of her. For instance, according to Goodman, who's in the show notes, Anna Lee saw Dr. Luffy several times during that period of her life, and she never once mentioned the fact that the medication he had prescribed seemed to be making her symptoms worse. She also didn't tell any of them that she started smelling a horrid stench not perceived by others. Oh, and we'll get to that. That's interesting. Now, in the spring of '73, things continued changing for the worse in the Michelle House. One afternoon, Emily's told her mother that she had been hearing strange knocking noises in her room at night that she couldn't explain. Her mother was like, "Okay, you must have been dreaming." That's your first thought. When Anna Lee's persisted, her mother sent her to see Dr. Vote saying, "If you did not dream it, maybe there's something wrong with your ears." Okay. And Dr. Vogue couldn't find anything wrong with her ears. He referred her to a spell. Specialists but he too couldn't find any problems with her ears. I'm like she already saw an ENT. Yeah In the days that followed her parents began speaking to one another in private about their concerns the doctors thought Annalise had Epilepsy and her mother said so maybe it had something to do with that. Okay. That seemed reasonable to Yosef But he added she's a bit off her rocker. That's all Oh, that's a quote. That's sad. Yeah The thing was it wasn't just Annalise who heard the knocking in the bedroom at night. Oh, it started with Annalise But a few nights later the other girls started hearing the noises too Her mother worried that if there was an irrational explanation for the noises it could be something supernatural Okay, but Yosef wasn't willing to entertain that thought. Yeah, he said he told his wife Annalise is sick and asked who her sister Well young girls are sometimes hysterical everybody knows that Well, Yosef, Yosef, Yosef. No wonder Annalise didn't want to talk about her symptoms too extensively It's giving no It wasn't just the noises that had Annalise concerned enough to tell her parents eventually she started telling them about the faces Finally because they were still still seeing them before when she'd seen the frots and once a twice a year It was easy to dismiss that as a symptom of maybe the medication she was taking or something else Um and she but and that was like she she really only saw them when she thought she was gonna maybe have one of those seizure like experiences She was thinking huh, but now she wasn't just seeing them during that stuff. Okay. I got the sanatorium She would see them frequently but like home if I like it was always related to some kind of thing But now she said she saw them when she did normal tasks like making her bed playing the piano reading a book. Okay And now she said the voices spoke to her. Ah, that just gave me chills down my neck. Yeah That are the faces spoke to her in low menacing voices. No, it would also just got darker in here Did you notice that it didn't get darker in the light off in the sun? I think like it's just a cloud But that was a really crazy time. I think it's just a cloud, but it's scary. Yeah, I don't like it clouds And they would tell her she was damned and we'll go to hell forever. Oh, this is so spooky But they would say it like you are damned and we'll go to hell forever Except they didn't smile at her like you just smiled. Maybe they did You weren't smiling anything you weren't smiling guys. Oh, that's a scary smile. Don't do that. Stop it Now the family may have lived in a very rural environment, but it was still the 1970s and Developed religiosity notwithstanding. There were they were pretty modern people Their daughter had spent most of her life battling one illness after another which would definitely take an emotional and psychological toll on someone that young As far as Joseph was concerned the hallucinations and increased talk of devils and demons Was it nothing more than another manifestation of her illness? Okay, and once she got over that it would all be over Which I can understand why he thought that yeah, I know so like Sometimes it's like it when people are like really struggling and it's and it's inexplicable. Yeah, the the The like logical person just wants to logic their way through it and that's almost like a coping mechanism Exactly. So I think it was just like we're gonna be fine We're gonna get through this and then it will all be over. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah, you know Annalyce's mother accepted her husband's explanation, but privately she couldn't help but believe there was something more sinister happening house Now the changes to Annalyce's personality weren't just noticed by family In 1973 her old friend group from school began noticing that she was becoming very more sullen and more depressed The more she pulled away from her old friends the closer she became with a new social group who some described as quote religious zealots. Oh Similarly zealot about thing zealot is your like over the top. Oh okay zealotry is not a not something you want to be aligned with yeah Awesome Similarly in discussions with her psychiatrist she routinely made concerning statements like quote someone else is manipulating me And my will is not my own. I It wasn't just the voices that you know, it wasn't just that the voices Annalyce heard what telling her she was damned It was also that she was beginning to believe it though. I mean, what didn't you? Yeah, I guess Now in 1973 her relationship with religion Suddenly had a dramatic transformation. So again, she was development again. Yes, because like she Choose development religious growing up and then she became super devout and now it's going to change again Now what's being zealot again once Once as development Catholic is any other member in her family and then zealotry coming into the situation She now couldn't seem to tolerate being in proximity to religious icons for more than a few minutes What in one incident Annalyce's mother claimed quote I happen to walk through the living room and saw Annalyce looking at the mother of god statue Only it wasn't with respect or adoration her face was like a terrible mask full of hatred Her eyes turned black jet black and her slender hands they twitched and seemed to turn into thick paws like claws It's weird that the girls at the sanatorium described it as claws that the mom did yeah And those are two completely different accounts to completely like years apart That is really creepy that is because I don't know how to I don't know how to rationalize that yeah Years later the family would recognize this as one of the spells that often came over Annalyce like the one she experienced at the sanatorium However, the spells no longer left her with that like feeling of euphoria or calm doesn't seem like it It was a feeling of dread yeah in a 1976 recorded conversation with father rents Annalyce described the experiences in some detail This is what she said oh hair potter You cannot imagine that most awful dread it is a terror that goes through all my limbs and settles there It is a dread that makes you think you are right there in the middle of hell You are totally utterly distorted you can call all you want for help to the mother of god maybe but they are all deaf Oh isn't that debilitatingly horror like it sounds like the sunken place it sounds like the worst kind of situation I can imagine yeah By that summer her mental health had continued to decline while her religious paranoia grew Not only had she become convinced of her own damnation, but she had also come to believe the world was gonna end Oh honey, I've been there in unlike years earlier when she carried the burden of her thoughts silently She was now more than happy to discuss them with others and by then the hallucinations had become way more vivid and way more detailed She believed she had personal visions of the future And she communed with the virgin Mary to clarify. I have not been there. Yeah, you haven't you I have been scared of the end of the world and I did go to therapy about it. Yeah, the virgin Mary never Never had parents. No, she also began likening herself to Barbara wagant a 19th century Catholic prophetess Who also claimed to have visions of the virgin Mary? Okay By the fall of 73 analysis parents finally convinced her to return to see the neurologist dr. Luffy And to tell him every thing She told the doctor. I often see frots and the devil is in me. I am all empty inside Years later during the trial Dr. Luffy testified about it this appointment with analysts And he said she could not get her mind off these things She had no power of decision and everything was empty in her But well thoughts of damnation in the end of the world seem to be consuming her every waking moment She seemed unable to provide a lot of detail about the hallucinations or what she believed to be visions. Okay She was unable to describe the frots and with a lot of detail other than to say they were ghastly and when asked how she knew it was the devil Analysts quote remained silent Which is almost scarier coming across a person suffering like this Like to be to be the doctor on the other end or like the mother or the father or the sister This would fuck you up. Yeah, this fucks me up just hearing it right now I can't imagine being in the presence of somebody experiencing it is horrifying That's a night. It's not even a nightmare. It's worse and for them to be like how do you know? It's the devil and she just stares at you. I would I would pee my fucking hands Now throughout the investigation that occurred in the late 1970s Many details about her medical treatment would be fiercely debated. Okay Among them was Dr. Luffy's reaction to Analyst's description of her symptoms Her parents would later insist it was Luffy who said they should take Analyst to see a priest But Luffy had strenuously and repeatedly denied those allegations. I don't see it doctor Yeah, Dr. Luffy said when I have a patient whom I cannot handle I always refer that patient to a clinic and not to a priest. Yeah. Yeah Also Dr. Luffy didn't recall any talk of demonic possession at this time Though he did recall Analyst's feeling as though quote she was being molested by satanic beings Oh Regardless of who said what the outcome remained the same Dr. Luffy felt Analyst's symptoms were a matter for psychiatrists and referred her to clinic. Yeah Yeah, in the fall of 73 the same time Analyst finally realized a dream she'd had since childhood when she enrolled in college And started studying to become a teacher while dealing with all of this. What? Yeah. While everyone thought the start of her college career, maybe this was going to lift her spirits. This is what she streamed of. Yeah. They were surprised to find she was remarkably indifferent in all of her courses. The pills Dr. Luffy gave her did little if anything to control her psychiatric symptoms and the thought of having hallucination during a class or a lecture increased her anxiety by tenfold. Oh, I can't imagine. It was during this time that Anna-Lisa's mother saw an opening to bring up the priest again. Okay. She said, "If Dr. Luffy's medicine is all that useless, maybe we could talk to her priest about those." Now, for reasons that are like still kind of unclear, it seems that Anna-Lisa and her mother would become very fixated on locating a Jesuit priest under the belief that the doctor had directed them specifically to a Jesuit. Okay. There's no church doctrine or other directive that specifically identifies the Jesuit order as being more knowledgeable in the matters of like demons and demonic possessions. Yeah. But Jesuit priests play a prominent role in the exorcist so that it may be seen the movie, which was released just two years earlier. The novel was wildly successful and led to the equally successful film, obviously, in 1973. Yeah. Both the novel and the film would have a significant influence on how people all over the world understood the right of exorcism. A concept that up until this point had been pretty phased out of church practice. Yeah. Although it's merely speculation, the family's insistence on finding a Jesuit priest could be explained by the influence of William Peter Gladys' novel. Yeah. And it is interesting timing, is all. I'm just looking into it and I guess, because you said they're Catholic, right? Yeah. So, a Jesuit priest is a type of Catholic priest and it says they answer to their religious superior and take a special vow of obedience directly to the Pope for worldwide missions. Interesting. Just to give a little clarity, but I don't know if they just seem like top-offs. Yeah. It seems like in their own religion, so I guess that, but it's like, they're a little bit more than your typical Catholic priest, I guess. They're more than your average Catholic. They're like priest worldwide, like, Mr. worldwide, that's their mission, I guess. That big sense. Probably just offended a lot of people since we're just trying to get through it. I don't know. This is a lot going on. I'm just trying to understand. There's a lot going on that we have no idea what's going on, simply trying to understand. No, whatever the reasoning may be, they did manage to track down a Jesuit priest through one of the retired priests in their church. Hell yeah. That priest was Father Ernest Alts, who had, and he had already been given some background on the family. So when they finally sat down, he knew what to expect. Okay. Although he had been told of the various disturbing experiences, Father Alts' main impression was that Annelise was a relatively normal if shy and withdrawn young woman. Okay. He later said there was nothing that I could see that would indicate possession. At the conclusion of the conversation, I advise the family to take their daughter to a physician and have her examined. Oh, good for him. Yeah. Father Alts' recommendation was not what Annelise or her mother wanted to hear. Because they already went to a bunch of doctors. Yeah. By that point, Annelise, again, had been seen by an endless stream of doctors from general practitioners and psychiatrists, to neurologists, even ear, nose and throat, you know, all of the specialists. None of them had been able to help. Annelise's mother was open to the possibility that a new specialist might know something the others didn't, but Annelise remained convinced that only a Jesuit priest would do. Okay. Now Annelise might have felt like she was running out of options, but fortunately for her, one of the proportioners at their church had another idea. Theahein had helped Annelise and her mother find father Alts. And as one of the biggest gossips in the village, she was invested in Annelise's story and determined to help. Absolutely iconic. After doing some research on her own, the located father, father, father, father, Adolf Rodowick, okay, unfortunate name. Yeah. He was a priest in Frankfurt. Okay. Father Rodowick was not only a Jesuit, but he was also something of an expert on Satan in demonic possession. I would think that a priest would be an expert on seeing. Well, he had written several books on the topic. Ah. So Theahein reached out to the priest on Annelise's behalf and explained what was happening and how they were certain that exorcism was the only possible solution. Of course. And the priest wrote back on the basis of that letter, I then answered that I did see some indication in what you had written that the girl was possessed. However, considering the great distance between Frankfurt and Klingenberg and my advanced age, I could not concern myself with the better. Sure. That's too far. Won't go. Too far, much old. That's the shorthand version of that letter. Too far. Much old. Sorry, possessed. Too far. Much old. Sorry, possessed. Too far. Much old. Sorry, possessed. Too far. Like, are you supposed to like help that her? I guess they're not your neighbor, they're not your nearest neighbor. Yeah. I guessed. Damn. Do you have any advice? He did. Okay. You know what he did? So did he offer literally any something to do with TLDR? Too far, much old. Sorry, possessed. Sorry, possessed. But he did refer her to Father Hermann, a retired priest in Ashemfinburg. Which they'd already been to for Ashemfinburg. I would call. Well, Annalise's peers and family believed she was suffering from some sort of demonic infestation. Doctors and other specialists who she sought out during this period clearly did not agree with this whole treatment plan that was going on. Like Dr. Luffy, most listened to Annalise's description of the events she was experiencing and thought she was having a mental health crisis. She described feeling alienated from her own free will and as though she was not making her own decisions. At one point, she said, I'm not my own ego anymore, which is like, it's really, that's deep. Yeah. Her descriptions of the hideous faces she saw were similarly vague. Like I said, and the messages were all just like, you're damn to hell. Yeah. But she interpreted them of having some kind of like malevolent source. But again, she was never quite able to articulate why that was and based her descriptions based on her descriptions, there was nothing outwardly evil about them. It was just like a face that was like that felt malicious, that felt malicious. Yeah. Even the priests and religious figures during this time that they kept seeking out obviously like he was completely like I was the whole thing. They seemed entirely unconvinced that she was possessed. Father Herman, who they referred to, said we usually talked about her problems, her problem for half an hour to an hour. And he saw Annelise about 10 times between the fall of '73 and the summer of '75. Oh, wow. And although he had no reason to disbelieve what she told him or the reports of Annelise's poor reactions to religious iconography during that time, he said he never saw any of the behaviors that Annelise and her parents described. He never saw them. Okay. He said, these symptoms never occurred when we were together. Although quite frankly, I said the rosary with her. Having such instances, she always behaved calmly and with piety and showed no such negative behavior. Which is interesting because this all started with her saying the rosary and having that terrifying experience. And that's religious iconography of the highest order. So it's like you're literally praying with religious iconography and not having a negative reaction to it. Yeah. So like what's that? After all that time with Annelise, he concluded her problems were matter for doctors, not priests. He said I suggested that she go to a neurologist. When at least the doctors want to help, but the priests are like, I'm not saying they don't want to help, but I don't think they know how to. I think they're acknowledging that this is not their expertise. Yeah. And which is his neurological? Which is wilds because usually priests are like, let's go with an exorcist. It's a lot of American stories maybe. Yeah. Maybe your adventures are just like, I can't do this. Yeah. Dr. Tyne. That's Craig Gray. This is Dr. Tyne. Dr. Tyne Gray. These scrubs, no, a significant problem in Annelise's case is one of reporting. That is, Annelise and her mother frequently reported experiencing or witnessing supposedly supernatural symptoms, but those symptoms were typically not evident when she was in the presence of doctors or specialists. There were, of course, the hideous face as she saw the voice as she heard, but no one else ever heard or saw those. So it's like, it's hard. It's hard. Okay. That's true. There was also, like you just said, there was the knocking which again, her sisters claimed to have heard, but that could also just not be verified. Well, it could also, like, I hate to say it, but it could be confirmation bias. Exactly. And it's like, they probably feel very badly for her sister. A fee back loop can happen in a room. So it's like, it can definitely happen. And she's the oldest, right? Yeah, so it's like, in fact, we're not for one particular symptom. It's likely the case would have been nothing more than that of unfortunately, this poor young woman, like rapidly kind of like decompensating at the time. But years earlier, and this is where the smell will come back. Okay, I was wondering when that was going to come out. Analyse had occasionally experienced a type of hallucination known as phintozmia. Okay. And an old factory hallucination in which one smells something that isn't there. Like her other hallucinations, she was never able to describe the smell with any detail other than to say it was foul and rotten. It's like when I smelled hot dogs up here. Exactly. Exactly. But I swear somebody fucking brought hot dogs into that theater. She was absolutely convinced. And I believed her. And I believed her. I was believed by a few. Yeah. I was going to call it just a way priest, but I decided to just let it go. Thanks. And time, though, others started to smell the odor when they were in Analyse's presence. Once on a church trip, the Hines said Analyse, quote, exuded a stench like Frau Hine had never smelled before. Like fecal matter or something burning. Everyone in the bus could smell it. I would like to state that those are two very different things. Yeah. Fecal matter or something burning. Smells a lot different than something burning. And this is something roast burning. Well, yeah, that's true. I guess that's a bit of meat burning or something like that. Similarly, when Father Herman interviewed Analyse's parents, her mother described, quote, a stench of dung or of something burning in the room where Analyse was. But Herman himself never smelled anything unusual. And we need to remember that Tea wanted very desperately to help them. Yeah. With one priest after another, having come away from interviews with Analyse, unconvinced of any supernatural basis for the problems, the case should have ended there probably. Yeah. And we're not for one young priest. It probably would have. You're going to end there. I'm not going to end there for part one on your fucking face. But I need you to know that part two is absolutely bonkers. Part one was absolutely bonkers. And it's a sad case. It's just tragic. Well, you're talking about police investigations and trials. So yeah, I'm really pleased about where this all goes. It's very, very sad. It's just a lot. Any exorcism case gets gnarly very quickly. It starts out being like, oh my God, very seriously. And seeing faces and all that, and then it's very quickly degrades into what the fuck am I listening to. So just please be prepared for that in episode two because it's not going to be too far much old, sorry, possessed or not to be able to have as much. Yeah, so told onto that one. Okay. Well, that was interesting. Yeah. I'm very excited for part two. It's going to be crazy. And I think now we should maybe get to the fun fact. Let's go. This segment is brought to you by State Farm. I have the most fun fact for you that I think will ever fun fact on this show. I'm really excited. Okay. So this is, I'm going to start off. This is from the Guinness World Records website. Okay. The average lifespan of a goldfish is about 10 to 15 years. Some varieties live, you know, like into their 30s when they're properly cared for. Oh, yeah. But one male goldfish named Tish, live to be 43 years old. Tish, what the heck, isn't that crazy, Tish, the oldest goldfish ever. Dang, 43 years with a pet, 43 years, he was born into 19, which I wonder, I wonder how they know like exactly when he was born. But he was said to be born in 1956 and he lived until 1999. That's bonkers. He was totally Rufus, bro. He was totally Rufus. He lived in the UK, North Yorkshire, I believe, and a seven-year-old won him out of fair with his family. And then Peter, Peter the little kid, like won him out of the fair. And then he grew up with him his whole life, Peter, and Peter, you know, not his whole life, but a lot. All of his childhood. Yeah. All of Peter's childhood, Tish was there. And then when Peter got married and, you know, moved out, his mom Hilda just took over care for Tish. Oh my God. So he didn't take Tish with him. No. Well, Tish was like, he had lived in the same house for him. That's true. It probably would have been stressful. Tish was specific, too. Oh, good for Tish. Apparently, he only liked it, like he really liked quiet areas, noise areas, stressed him out. Same Tish. We lived in a hallway. Good for him. Yeah. And honestly, in your 40s, you should be able to get that. You want quiet. You got it. I think so, too. I'd tell people what you want, Tish. I told the daily express, he has a healthy diet and has always enjoyed a peaceful place to live. I love that they just, like, respected Tish's wishes as well. Yeah. Like, they were like, what do you mean? That's it. Probably why he lived so long. Probably. Also, one time, like, 10 years before he actually did pass away, he almost died. He leapt out of his bowl. And nobody was home. Oh no. But then Hilda, the mom of Peter, came home, like a short time after that. And she found him and she plopped him back in the water, and he just started swimming. Like, everything was fine. Dang. I wonder if he was like, can't do it anymore. If he was like, I've been around a long time. You know what? They're like, would he know? Because goldfish have really short memories. Oh, yeah. I'm supposed to have, like, really? It's like 10 seconds later. I think it literally is like 10 seconds. Is that real or is that, how short? Let's fact check during the fact goldfish memory. I think it is. Pretty short. Oh. Yeah. That's fake. That's fake. I have a feeling though. It's not me lying during the fun fact segment. Yeah. They, um, oh, weeks, months, even years, they have memory. Oh. Why are we selling them short? And live science says, what's baffling is that it's the same wherever you go in the world this myth. In some places, it's like two seconds, others, it's always really short. That's funny. Yeah. I wonder if that's like from like literature or something that we all just made it up. There's got to be something about Britain though, because before Tish, the oldest gold fish was another British goldfish and his name was Fred and he lived to be 40 years old. Look at him. So Tish and he had, what, three years on him. Oh my god. And he, he like is silvery. Oh, yeah. That was the other thing when he got older. His, his scales, they started to turn silver. Oh my god. He had like, he's like a silver fox. He's a silver fish. He's a silver fish. He's a silver fish. Beautiful. So that, I think that's one of the most fun facts. I really like that one. I think we needed that. I know Tish is dead. But long live Tish, long live the memory of Tish, long live fish like Tish, fish like Tish. That would be a great children's book and it will be ours. Don't take it. Yeah. Thank you again to our sponsor State Farm for sponsoring this segment. Alright, well, thank you State Farm for sponsoring our fun fact segment and weirdos. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't try to make your goldfish live 44 years so that you can get into the Guinness Book of World Records. It's true. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.