2931: The Exact Foods to Eat to Lose Fat Without Starving Yourself

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And it's T-shirt time. Oh, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week. Two winners this week. One for Apple Podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winner is Cody Hasslewood. And for Facebook, we have Andrew Cox. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts? Shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, you guys asked for it. You constantly asked for it. Tell me what to eat. Now, of course, there's a huge individual variance. It's very difficult to do when we're talking to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, especially millions of people. But we're going to try anyway. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to tell you what to eat to get lean fast. We're on what the best breakfast, lunch, and dinner is that you could do that'll probably get you phenomenal results. Let's go. I actually really like this because, yeah, we're going to get, I'm sure, roasted by some talking head about, you know, this is like, what about somebody who's this? And what about like the- Obviously. But that being said, these general guidelines or this generic meal plan that you wrote right here, most people, if they just stuck to it- Yeah. Real close to it. That's right. Give or take, you know, a couple ounces up or north of something, you know, if you're smaller or bigger, you would get an incredibly great shape just eating this way. Yeah. And I picked, I tried to pick foods that not everybody, okay? Because I know, again, we're talking to a lot of individuals here, but most people would find good enough. In other words, what we're not going to give you is this crazy, boring diet that's impossible. We're going to put whole food-based, of course. You put your own spices in it. Yeah. And these are foods that most people are okay with eating. And there's some options for variety within what we're saying. But generally speaking, and we're going to give some ranges here because we know we're talking to both men and women. So women generally are going to be on the lower end, men on the higher end. If you follow something like this and you're consistent with it, especially if your diet is like the typical American's diet, this would be a massive improvement over your current diet. And what you'll notice is this, here's what you'll notice. In combination with a decent workout, with an appropriate workout, what you'll notice is you'll get leaner, you'll also get stronger. You'll build some muscle, you'll also burn some body fat, and you're not going to feel like you're starving yourself. That's what this is going to feel like. You're going to feel kind of good. So the point I was going to make when I'm looking at this diet, and we're assuming these people are lifting weights, following a good program with it. What you should expect, though, is not a lot of movement on the scale. And this is probably the most difficult part for somebody who's going to like this, is they'll eat this way, because obviously the title, eat this to get lean fast, right? So get lean fast is going to attract the person who wants to lose body fat or drop weight on the scale. Tons of weight on the scale. Right. But what I know by what you wrote here, this is going to be a much higher protein diet than that. That person is probably eating, which is a great thing. It's going to be satiety producing. It's now going to give them appropriate amount of protein in order to build muscle. So that paired with lifting weights, what this should result in is absolutely a leaner physique the fastest way possible. But what a leaner physique the fastest way possible actually looks like is little movement on the scale, because there's this beautiful exchange of you're adding a pound of muscle, you're losing a pound of fat, which is net zero on the scale. And so if you do take this advice and you follow it to get lean fast, do not measure your results by what you see on the scale. Because to your point, you're going to get stronger on this and you should lose body fat on this, which will typically show little to no movement at the beginning on the scale. I'm glad you said that. Later, especially if you have a lot of body fat to lose, you will see lots of body fat come off. But in the beginning, especially as you're building muscle, stoking that metabolic rate, there's not going to be a ton of movement on the scale. Proper pure fat loss is more of a snowball effect than what people typically experience when they do it the wrong way, which is an initial rapid weight loss on the scale, which includes half of it being muscle. And there's really hard plateau. And then eventually you give up. All right, let's get to the diet. And we'll start with breakfast. Now, here's the deal. I know a lot of people like to skip breakfast. I don't think it's a good idea for most people. Now, there are situations where skipping breakfast may be beneficial. Typically, people with gut health issues are the people that fall into this category. But generally speaking, breakfast sets you up, for the most part, this is especially true for women, less true for men, but also true for men. This sets you up for hormonal dysfunction. Now, that's maybe a little strong. But essentially, we're not optimizing our hormonal state by completely skipping breakfast. And this tends to set us up for failure later on. Now, in the extreme cases, when people skip too many meals, we start to see some thyroid dysfunction. This becomes much more common in women, cortisol spikes. In men, less common, but you'll start to see some of that as well when this gets real extreme. But you do see these swings in how people eat. You start to see energy levels swing. At first, maybe more energy from skipping. But then as the body adapts to the increased catecholamine production, all that stuff, then they start to feel dead. So skipping breakfast, generally not a good idea. It's also very difficult to hit protein if you skip breakfast. Like, good luck hitting optimal protein if your first meals are new. Now, you've got to digest and absorb protein in really big amounts, and it's a lot more difficult. So I was going to ask you if the stuff that we are aware of, that hormonally, like thyroid stuff, when somebody is skipping breakfast, is that because of skipping breakfast? Or is that more connected to the fact that they're more likely eating too low of protein and maybe missing healthy fats that's causing that? Independent of the total calories, proteins, carbs, all that stuff, going for long, periods without food has a stronger stress response in women than it does for men. So independent of that. So if somebody was really good still about hitting their proteins and fats, it still has some potential negative effects. Yes. And I know some people are like, oh, it doesn't bother me. I'm okay. And so, yeah, there's a little bit of an individual variance. But when you look at generally the data, and look, I'll speak from experience. When fasting became very popular, I had lots of clients trying it. And generally speaking, women responded, poorly, to fasting. And I had male clients that were okay. Some responded well, some not so well. But most of my female clients eventually turned out to be terrible. And we had hormone effects as a result. And then again, try to hit your protein targets when you're first going. I remember going, yeah, like a full year. And initially, skipping breakfast and just having coffee worked for me. And I had that energy spike in the morning. Dude. And then it just completely didn't work for me anymore. And yeah, like, everything got slower. My energy just bonked. And so, yeah, I had to reintroduce. I mean, I never used the, when I was trying to explain this to clients, I never used the argument of a better hormone profile. It was purely always, in my experience, you just can't hit your protein without it. Very few. I mean, there are always exceptions to the rule when we communicate to an audience this size. But for the most part, and in my experience, every client that I ever had, when I first assessed it, I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I always had to bump protein intake. They were always under. They were either grossly under eating or they were less than optimal always yes and so skipping breakfast and so skipping breakfast was never a good strategy if from that context it was like we're already under eating uh to say let's just not even eat one whole meal in there it would just made that more difficult and then they were playing catch up all day and all night and then many times having to have this mat if they were still able to hit the protein to get this massive dinner yep that then affected impeded sleep yep so i was just over a family member's house and she just started tracking and i'm looking at it okay on average on average she's eating 40 to 50 grams of protein that's day that is that is the norm that is the norm and you know what it's the norm by people who think they eat a lot of protein oh she did say that i'm having protein because they eat meat or they do that they're not they're not because they have meals that always that have that they just assume that they're just like i had an egg sandwich for breakfast and then a little turkey here and i'm like it's 50 grams for the whole day yeah her highest day of protein was 100 grams and that happened once an entire week and that to her was like insane yeah when ideally honestly ideally for her would have been closer to 130 but she was averaging 50 and that's most people yes um and if you want to you want more details on why optimal protein helps with fat loss we've done so many episodes on it but it's very well studied all right let's go into breakfast here's what breakfast will look like for you okay for uh and i'm giving a range here for women to men you want to start off with some kind of meat or eggs you want a good source of protein you're looking at probably six to eight ounces of meat uh with eggs you're looking at probably six to eight or nine eggs a lot more than you think about 30 to 50 grams of protein you want 30 to 50 grams of protein with breakfast the other thing you're going to have with it is two cups of blackberries blackberries are incredible sources of fiber they also have some carbohydrates but they're very low in the glycemic index you're going to start your day off with 30 to 50 grams of protein 30 grams of carbs 15 grams of fiber the fiber plus the protein is going to produce a satiety that's going to last for the rest of the day you're going to have better insulin sensitivity the whole day because you started and this is what the data shows start your day off high protein high fiber your blood sugar levels are more blunted so you're not going to have the high spikes and low lows crazy cravings that's right and it helps a lot with mood and cravings to start the day off that way so my favorite is to actually have a blend of the two uh meat and eggs so i don't have to have seven or eight eggs i can have four eggs in like three to four ounces of one of those meats ends up being this beautiful 50 grams and they go so well together they do scrambled eggs up with some beef or leftover chicken is so good uh many obviously i'm a little bit bigger guy and so i can totally afford and also an ounce of cheese on top of that too so with this beautiful breakfast yeah four eggs or three eggs scramble with like three four ounces of chicken thighs you scramble it up it's and i always you know this has always been a huge hack for me if you listen to the show and heard me say it a million times i apologize but for someone who hasn't um the hack is make whatever you made from the previous night dinner just a bigger portion size so that leftovers can be so it's like if you did a ground beef dish you did a chicken dish steak to any of these dishes and you prepare dinner just throw an extra slab of meat on there or an extra pound of meat on there it's whatever it is and then that leftover now can be the next two mornings of breakfast with a couple eggs now it's interesting about this because i know people are listening and they're going i can't eat that for breakfast that's like huge like what are the three scrambled eggs plus meat inside of it i can never do that and the same people that are saying this are the same people that are struggling with weight loss yeah people who need to lose 40 to 50 pounds yeah but train yourself to do it later in the day they have no problem eating tremendous amounts of calories i'm telling you right now if you make this happen in the morning it will pop up in your diet it will positively affect the rest of the day and yes it's going to feel hard at first that's the point it will that's it's going to feel difficult at first but get this consistently the rest of the day is affected in a positive way rather than what people typically do which is small to nothing or sugar and then the rest of the day is in the toilet yeah all right let's talk about lunch uh this is a great easy meal you can pack it's delicious 30 to 50 grams of protein at ground beef uh you could go with really lean ground beef if you want a half a cup to a cup of rice uh and two cups of well-cooked greens so now you've got your carbohydrates your proteins your fats and you've got your greens and you can add what's really good about this a ground beef and rice bowl with salsa the salsa adds barely any calories it's really delicious like a burrito bowl yeah you just mix all this in one thing mix it all together yeah this ain't gonna look pretty no and it's really good it's convenient you can bring it with you to work it takes a minute and a half in the microwave and you've got another 30 50 grams of protein you've got your your carbohydrates some fats from the meat and your greens which help with digestion by the way an example of this too is another example of this you know cut in half or a quarter mixed with some of the eggs for the next breakfast the next day works too so a lot of these what i like about this like kind of you know foundation or anchor meals that you're building right now is that they work really well and they're interchangeable with breakfast lunch and dinner which we're always trying to simplify it for clients that like if you're already trying to train them to eat whole consistently then trying to do how we did it back in the days when we get a print off from the computer that would just tell us like all these random meals that you had to go out of your way to prepare and make it's like you can do a lot of this stuff in bulk and then package it a little different for breakfast lunch and dinner to make you feel like it's more of a dinner or it's more of a breakfast right yeah yeah and this bowl right here i i have yet to find a client that uh actually gets sick of this bowl sounds so basic so easy to digest though i mean you feel so much better after the meal and it tastes good it's easy it's an easy meal it tastes good it's not uh hard to put down um and it's uh very easy to store you put in a container you got in the fridge take it to work the next day you're all set all right let's get to dinner six to eight ounces of meat so again we're looking at 30 to 50 grams of protein a large sweet potato which is probably the sweet potato you'll find at the grocery store funny story with this when you look at macros on things like potatoes and it says medium it's typically a five inch sweet potato which if you go to the grocery store the sweet potatoes are all super big like twice as big oh yeah five inch sweet potato like where do you find the tiny little thing i mean i i've i've shared the story a long time ago of when i first started weighing and measuring track of food the sweet potato was one of the first things that blew my mind because before this i was using just like a calorie king book that i used to have and that's how they it's either small medium or large sweet potato and uh what i was because when and then when i go to the grocery store you can you can you can visually in your head see what the smaller ones and what the larger ones look like the smaller ones are bigger than what the book had as the extra large ones and so i was like i mean hundreds of calories off my estimation uh when i actually weighed them out and like oh wow it's bananas yeah bananas are another one where it's like you know what the what the book would say is a small banana like that doesn't even exist in grocery stores like the the smallest banana is an extra large banana and so what has happened to food where they've done that everything's just gotten larger it's gotta be right yeah oh yeah the same selective what they call it selective farming it's like the breeding dude it's true for everything get an apple look what they think is a normal get a strawberry you get strawberries like this like what's happening you get a strawberry the size of an apple now and original strawberries were like they're berries you get a strawberry they look like not much bigger they were a little bit bigger than blackberries or blueberries they weren't they weren't these giant things this big that's wild yeah we've bred them pumpkins now oh my god same thing with chicken breast anyway so 68 ounces of meat get yourself a sweet potato two cups of cooked greens you've got your proteins your fibers your carbohydrates you've got some good vegetables they're cooked by the way the reason why i say cooked greens if you want your vegetables to really help with digestion cook them well if you want them to hurt your digestion eat them raw and that's true so raw vegetables not so great for digestion well cooked very well cooked uh make a difference but there you have it with the meals and so what you're looking at is 90 to 150 you know or so uh grams of protein uh per day so that's gonna that's gonna cover the range now here's the deal some of you guys are gonna need more protein than this uh this is where shakes uh come in handy so now you can have a shake post-workout 30 50 grams of protein and now you're getting for most people in those optimal ranges now here's what's key with what we just said okay meal prep meal prepping is key with all of this in fact meal prepping is key uh to be able to eat healthy in general what really messes people up consistently is that they're hungry it's time to eat and their options are are basically what they can door dash or what they can drive to or what's in their pantry or what's at the office none of which are are ever typically good ideas but if you meal prep you know twice a week or whatever you're set with your meals and you're odds of consistency it's and it's crazy that uh we we over complicate this and we make it sound like it's this big ordeal or i get to plan a whole day of cooking this but the things that you chose like sweet potato and white rice but you cook those in bulk yeah the chicken breast the ground beef cook those in bulk pounds of it at a time to last you two or three days no different than if you were to make it a meal for just you and your spouse you just 4x it i mean you just put more of it in all the things that you're cooking and you're cooking it in a way that's like you know you're cooking it in a way that's like you know you're cooking it on the grill or in this in in the the crock pot or in the oven it's like so the the time and effort and then the last bit is like you know having yourself some nice glass tupperwares that you and once you get this down right like this uh system of what it looks like i mean i've got my half cup scooper for my rice my big rice cooker and i've got all the you know i've definitely got a lot of glass tupperware that i've so i have plenty always that are the perfect size for this stuff and once you kind of figure all that out this becomes really routine really easy to do and it'd be funny that a lot of the motivation for me today has been uh to save money how ridiculous it is to eat out oh yeah that's this saves so much money yeah doing this so much money the whole myth about eating healthy is more expensive eating healthy is only more expensive if you go to restaurants that advertise eating healthy they'll charge you more for that everything all pre-packaged yeah but if you make it yourself you haven't forbid you have a dash to your house these days oh gosh the the you you spend an exorbitant amount of money eating these these these crappy processed foods uh that aren't even that good that are way overpriced so yeah i mean you then you throw in something like a like a butcher box where you can buy things in bulk you can have it shipped to your house i just want to add like if you try this listen if you're listening and you're like okay i'm gonna give this a shot and you give it a shot for 30 days it's going to blow your mind at a few things one how much strength you gain most people listening if they did this they're gonna be like oh my god yeah i'm suddenly getting stronger always surprising for me every time like every time i'm lifting my weight's going up this will happen if you go if you're the typical like i barely eat protein too oh a lot of times that's the unlock that's the unlock and realize it number two this is really going to blow you away you're going to feel like you're getting leaner simultaneously feel like you're eating a lot of food if you eat like this protein and fiber especially protein so satiety producing that you're going to eat this way and you're going to be like i feel like i'm waist go down a half an inch yeah i feel like i'm eating so much food you're actually eating less calories than you would have if you're eating processed foods uh and eating out but the protein is not and number three you will fill it in your pocketbook you will say and and you think it's the opposite because like you said you're you're i mean buy nice cuts of meat buy all that stuff like that and you're eating maybe three or four times a day versus what you were before two times you'll still save money totally it's still when you especially like again like i you you have something on subscription that's a deal you get your ground beef falls sent to you grass-fed and you cook in bulk like this i have saved so much more money eating this way that's the number one thing i get from butcher box is the ground beef that's the largest of the because we put we cook so much of it and we cook it all together we cook the pot of rice we have it sitting there easy meal together and if you want to you know spruce it up if the salsa you can put guac on their cheese or whatever i just typically do rice and meat most consistent easy way to handle and their ground beef is really good it's grass-fed it's really good uh obviously easy to cook you throw it in a pan you make it we did their ribs uh everett like requested them and uh it's funny because you know how long it takes but like and we were like okay it's probably gonna be a few hours and uh poor courtney was like still out in the trigger and we were smoking it and it was like i think it was like 10 o'clock at night and then we all had a feast at like 10 o'clock we're still they're so good but it was like man we should have started like katrina and i each crush a whole set ourselves so like we'd like that we'll cook that and it's she gets one i get a whole we each get a whole rack i'll just i'll we'll just i'll just eat that because it's the heritage pork right that's why right i just like because it's you know so much meat on the bone because the pork is different yeah the crate free uh pork yeah yeah it tastes different it is different everybody i know that that likes to to do ribs and i convinced to to go try and let me like i we've been i've been doing those ribs now for i don't know how many years since we've been working with them but for a long time now and there's been many a times when i'm craving them and i've already cooked my butcher box and so i have to go to the grocery store and buy uh some other ribs and i've tried all different brands and kinds and none of them are as good as the butcher box ones and i don't know i don't know if that's because it's the heritage pork i don't know if it's the they're the perfect size flavor i don't know i don't know why all i know is that i've tested it many times i wish i could find some a replacement for when i am out of my butcher box ribs but uh they they are amazing and everybody that i've got to do it are like you're right they taste so good off the bone i read a post today that was so wild i knew some of the stuff but this person lists it all down and it just blows me away and so basically these are they made a list of some of the most egregious accepted you know uh settled science that we accepted that we later realized was like killing us so they did this over the years and now there's way more than this by the way so you can actually look up like you know uh prescription drugs have been taken off the market so you'll see a lot of them but this person went through and these were things that people did because everybody doctor scientists were like yeah that's good and then later we found out was horrible so they made a list so in 1890s you were giving your kids the new by bear bear made this justin of course they made this new cough syrup that worked it was uh it was heroin uh they were giving that'll stop the cough they were giving kids heroin this was cough medicine for kids and in the 1900s you rubbed calomel teething powder on your infant's gums wow this was to help them because they were teething chamomile no no calomel was the name of it it's a mercury compound okay wow you were giving your children uh what's called pink disease swollen peeling hand oh wow the bear the bear was actually even called heroin yeah they called heroin not even disguising it just yeah oh wow yeah let me tell you it's effective your cough is gone when you take was this uh okay what is what is um sorry to derail you a little bit just maybe okay in the in the movie tombstone she is taking an opiate but it's called something else is it lot of lot of so is is lot of a derivative from from this or like a lot of them well a lot of them yeah you're right that's it's something like that she was taking it for like her bad uh yeah a lot of them yeah she got very addicted to it a lot of them is uh it's dark reddish alcohol it's opium yeah so it's just a tincture of opium just it's just a good old-fashioned opium good well isn't that what i mean so so i mean heroin came from opium okay it was like this is like the right that's the foundational got it got it okay it's organic anyway oh can we go into bear's history no wait we will after please please it's okay all right then in the 1910s you start cooking with crisco which was launched by a soap and candle company because cottonseed oil is modern and lard is what your mom used yeah so this is uh this was trans fats right so we were using crisco instead of lard and they were advertising as such now they advertise anything without trans fats because it's horrible in the 1920s you drink something called ratathor this was certified radioactive water what the hell yeah even bear buyers took 1400 bottles for his vitality eventually his jaw was removed in pieces and you're in a lead coffin they had to bury him in lead in a lead coffin he was so radioactive no superpowers what that reminds me of that uh those poor ladies that were um working in that factory to make watches paint watches yeah they paint it with this with radium yeah and they would lick they would lick the uranium yeah it was like just radio it was just radio yeah it glow yeah they would lick the tips of the of the uh i don't know that paintbrushes what watches what watch company you know you can look it up doug that's interesting yeah radioactive watch yeah they'd lick because they'd lick and then they'd you know to give it a point you know to paint these watches for some reason i thought that that was like the envelopes or something like that that no there they are right there oh yeah so it was a watch company they call them the radium girls they would they cancer dude of course it's freaking radioactive there's a whole documentary documentary oh that'd be interesting i'll watch that that it was widely used in the 20th century to make watch dials and military instrument glow in the dark notice they don't put any brand names no yeah yeah that's smart they don't want that kind of bad publicity i wonder what the anyway so there's that uh here's another one 1930s 30s a chemist dissolves a new sulfa drug and diethylene glycol which is antifreeze it kills 107 people mostly children oh wow then the 1940s your doctor is smoking camels in surgery uh because doctors were the ones that smoke camel cigarettes apparently they gotta call down ash over like a over an open oh shit whoops yeah you want you want a nice steady hand right so you camel in one yeah accidentally ash in the wound in the 1950s ddt is sprayed over your kitchen your garden and your children at school the man who found it or founded it was given a nobel peace prize by the way my grandfather my grandfather or my great-grandfather told me stories of this he said when he was little in sicily they'd have all the kids line up outside the house and they drive a truck through and just blast and just blast everybody with ddt for lice yeah by the old ddt commercials you ever watch them no people are eating at a picnic and they blow ddt over the food and the people keep eating to show how safe it is you i heard a lot of studies were tainted because they didn't factor in ddt exposure oh for so many people back there yeah dude and like We were getting cancer. Okay, so it stops in the 50s? Did we stop making these mistakes? DDT we stopped using much later. In fact, it was used for a long time, for a very, very long time. We haven't even got to asbestos yet. Yeah, I know. I don't even think it's in the list. All right. Cool. 1960s, this is terrible, by the way. Women are using something called thalidomide for morning sickness because it's remarkably safe, except more than 10,000 children are born with missing or shortened limbs. Ay, ay, ay. Do you know what happened with that, by the way? No. When you look at the molecular structure of this drug, thalidomide, if you do the mirror version of it, if it's flipped, then it produces these birth defects. Scientists thought it was the same. If it's facing this way, it's the same. If it's not true. If it faces the other way, then your kid's going to be born without an arm or leg. So how did it end up being, like, how did that mess up? Like, the molecule got flipped. How did the molecule get flipped? Because the way they made it, it was the same process. They weren't trying to control for that. Oh, my God. So you had tens of thousands of children that were born with this, yeah, for this morning sickness drug that was hailed as a miracle and that doctor said was really good for you. Ay, ay, ay. In the 1970s, the country puts down butter, picks up margarine because the American Heart Association says margarine's better for you. This was official guidelines. Margarine. American Heart Association, man. They got a few misses on their belt. I know. And so there you go. And there's more. In the 1990s, your father's prescribed OxyContin, and now we have this huge opiate issue as a result. In the 2000s, Vioxx for knee pain was pulled off in 2004 because tens of thousands of excessive heart attacks. Those are just some of the examples. Yeah, this is over-counter stuff. And by the way, I was just talking with the, I won't say his name, the dude that cut our hair today. Yeah. So I was talking about his dad. His dad had a horrible stroke, and so his dad's young. And we were talking about it. Yeah, I was asking him questions, and I was like, you know, just, I said, you know, forgive me for asking this, and you don't have to answer this, but did your dad ever get the COVID vaccine? Mm-hmm. And he says he wasn't sure, but he had, did you guys know he got the COVID vaccine, and it gave him the heart inflammation he had to get hospitalized for? Whoa. The kid that cut our hair. I didn't know that. And he says sometimes when he gets sick, it comes back, and he has to go to the hospital. Are we allowed to talk about this now? No, trust the science. Yeah. Thanks, Doug. Thanks for bringing us back. I know someone personally, I know someone personally who is late 30s who, through the COVID vaccine, had strokes, several. Yeah. And they linked it back to that. So anyway, just a little history of that. What's so wild about just the little short history lesson that you took us all down with that is how there could be anybody on the other side that gets angry at somebody who's choosing. Just questioning. Yeah, just questioning. Just questioning it. That's just like, hey, I don't know if I want to take this. Hey, I think I'm going to roll the dice and try and go natural to shame them or to call it at all, even if they're wrong. Even if they're wrong on it, you have the right to be skeptical or unsure about something. I remember my original stance. I was talking to my friend, and it was really just, I was trying to be like, you know, just logical about it. Like, if you have full. Autonomy in terms of not being able to sue. I was like, I don't think that's good. I don't want to subscribe. I don't want to try. I don't want to go through that experiment process because I'm going to wait to see, you know, like the reports that come in and like the injuries that inevitably with that many millions of people, you're going to have injuries regardless. Like you can't claim you're not going to have any injuries. So it just, it was totally illogical to me just from that standalone. You're going to have the government protecting it. It's like, please. They did such a good job of fear-mongering the side that if you didn't, you were killing people. Not only fear-mongering, but coercing you out of it. Oh, yeah. You lose your job. You can't do this. You can't do that. It's so deceptive to say that you have it. You probably have it, but it's, what do they call it? Like it's. Asymptomatic. Asymptomatic. That was the most deceptive marketing I've ever seen. Ever. Yeah. It's like, oh, you probably have it though. Did I tell you guys? Oh, shit. You guys want to hear a funny story? Now, in hindsight, it's even funnier. But at the time I was like, ah. So during, in the middle of kind of COVID, like, you know, during that whole time or whatever, Jessica and I went to the truckie house and met up with some of her friends that she knew from Cirque du Soleil. So some old friends. So we had like three families meet us up there and us. And this was kind of when COVID was kind of going on. Now, all of them were on this. This side, like the way over here side of that whole thing was like, you better get vaccinated. Yeah. You better not like, don't talk to grandma. Yeah. Like that side. Right. Yeah. Obviously, Jessica and I are much more over here on this side. But you guys remember my stance. My stance was not never. My stance was, I'm going to wait. No, I'm going to wait for all of us. You were, you were actually contemplating at one point. Yeah. I was going to, my, my whole thing was, look, I'm healthy. I'm just going to wait to see what happens. Yeah. I'm so glad I did. Right. We were never anti. It was just like, whoa, let's, let's see how this plays out. Anyway, so we get to the house. I'll never forget. We get to the house. Everybody does their due diligence or whatever. Everybody's hanging out. And the conversation, because remember, this was like during COVID, right? Conversation starts to come up about the whole thing. And they all immediately are like, whoa, they're way over here on this side. And, and, you know, Jessica and I, we have our opinions. I'm opinionated. Jessica is even more so. So she just starts, you know, sharing like, no, we're not going to do it. We're not doing it. We don't believe in it. We think we're healthy, whatever. She's talking about all this stuff. Right. Anyway, later that night, I started feeling sick and I had COVID. Well, they all left the next morning. You know, they were driving home going, I knew it. Those two bragging about their non-vaccine. Of course he has COVID, you know. It's going to be a long winter. So, you know, they felt so like justified. Do you know what's crazy? You know, how many years ago is that now? Six. Yeah. Six years ago. Six. Yeah. Isn't that wild? 2020. Just six years ago. Those are the fastest years. I think. We've lived. It also feels like it was, it feels like it was way longer than that ago, but it also feels like. Oh, it feels like it was way sooner to me. It feels like it was just, I feel like, I mean, even the fact that you just said right now, is it okay to talk about six years ago, bro? I know. It's a long time ago. You know, it's already been a long time and like, we're way past it. And like, everybody knows it was a bunch of bullshit. Yeah. Like, of course we can talk about it. It was six years ago. That's wild that it was that, that long ago. But man, it, it, it lingered forever. For like two full years. Like it was the, I mean, it dominated our, the, the conversations everywhere you went. It was. It was, in my opinion, the best example in modern history of mass paranoia and just the power. What? Of media. Terrible leadership. And what we did is we put, we put, don't get sick. This is what we did. We created this, this, uh, this thing, which was no infections ever. And we made it. Our God, and we sacrificed everything towards this God of never getting sick. So you, you should just be in your house by yourself all the time. What about my friends? What about my family? No, that gets you more. No infection turns out when you sacrifice relationships and sunlight are like two of the biggest keys to health. And we were told, do you remember people getting arrested at the beach? Yes. It's surfing away from everybody in the ocean by himself for him to come in. They arrested it. Like, Hey, let's get close to you. This thing I've ever seen. Oh, the whole thing. I know the whole thing was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. restaurants so you mask on and then you walk in and you're like okay is it right is it right now now it's now it's free this so it only hovered at at five feet but once you're at three feet you hear the plastic separator that's just it's just one sheet at the you know at the grocery store yeah i can't get this spin on you from here did you ever see the videos of the kids in band they had kids in band and they had masks with a hole in it so they put their mouth on their instrument yeah you ever seen that i did ridiculous or these zip up like uh plastic containers they're in in playing what age group do you think uh when you think back to like uh covid the 9-11s the riots so much stuff that's happened in the last you know 20 years or like that or less what what age do you think would be like the worst age to have like been through because of what your your lens that you see the world through like i feel like one of the one of the benefits that i even we can have a conversation like this and we were having a conversation this when it was going on was that when you're old enough and you've been around and you've seen enough things like you can draw back to like oh well trust me there's like i mean even i remember talking to you guys when the when how crazy a lot of like the the riots were and stuff like that it's like dude we've had yeah crazier rioting time but it felt but if you were young la riots back in the oh dude way yeah way way way crazier times uh and so but i mean because of social media because of this time and after that like you can that's the difference it i think before um we didn't have a lot of media coverage and like constant media coverage every day in your face stuff that like i think you're able to kind of put it off live your life come back to like the shock of like oh my god this is happening this event you know uh but it wasn't like you every day were just like being inundated with it no no 100 i think uh i kids who grew up around my two older kids who were in really impressionable during covid they suffered a lot yeah during that period of time and older people suffered a lot because older people when you look at the data on Oh, imagine that being your last years of your life and not being able to see your family. Even if it's not, an older person's health declines dramatically when they're lonely. Fact. Yep. And I saw this with my grandparents. And it wasn't like we stayed away from my grandparents for a year. I think it was like four months because of all the fear and stuff. And so we would drop off groceries. And in a four-month period, they aged so much because they were just by themselves. The damage we did was just unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. I know, crazy. Yeah, they're crazy. Hey, how was your weekend? You took the boys to the Laguna Seca, yeah? Yeah, we went to Laguna Seca. Ethan is like a super fan now of like motorsports in general. But yeah, he's really into these like exotic cars. And like I was trying to remember the name of this type of engine of this car. Like he just was fascinated by it. It's got like this, I don't know if it's almost like a triangular kind of turbine where like because of that, it creates this compression of its own. Is that rotary? Yeah, rotary. Oh, good job. Doesn't Mazda have rotary engines? So yeah, the Mazda RX-7 is a rotary engine. And I'd never heard of it before, but he was explaining it to me. It has the coolest sound. Like it was very cool to see. But yeah, we saw a lot of sick cars. And what was great about it was like how open it was. Like it wasn't like, you know, they had their own little pit that like, you know, you had no access to or anything. Everybody like, because it's kind of like hobbyists and it's, people that like own a lot of these cars and then they get to drive it on the track. And it was a very like kind of relaxed environment. So we're going up there, they're starting it up. They're telling us all about it. We're walking. It was sick. Did you not, did you know up until that point, like how much your boy was into it until like, oh, that's kind of cool. No, I didn't. Like I kind of like. You're like, oh shit. He like knows his stuff about it. Yeah. Like he, obviously he, you know, in his own time has watched a lot of YouTube videos. He's reads a lot about all the, you know, specs and like, yeah, he, he geeks out a lot on all these like different types of like really fast cars. I'm like, cool. Like I dig it. You know, I love that you were up at all every day. I was up there. What's it called? That's Monterey car week. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So, and there's stuff going on also, dude, I heard the coolest breakdown of what it's like to be like an F1 driver as far as like, what kind of athletes are they? First of all, you know, that there's only like 20 something in the world to make it that and, and he, he breaks it down. It was really cool. I, I list, I'm obviously listened to all this stuff and pay attention and go down the rabbit holds and I've heard stuff talked about this before, like just what great crazy athletes they are, but I've never heard somebody break it down like this. And he, he starts it off by talking about like how unaware we all are because every other sport, like you can go pick up a basketball and play and shoot outside. Oh, we just have no ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and so, and, and so you could watch a pro athlete and like be like, wow, you can feel like, cause you know what, you know what you can't do. Exactly. Yeah. He goes, but you are completely unaware. You think, cause you get in a car and drive a car, it's nothing like, yeah, it's nothing like that. And so he's like the, the left that he goes, they are super athletes. He goes their strength, their endurance, their, their eye, like there's, they're like fighter pilots. Yes. On, on that extreme level. He says, he starts telling this story. So he, so here's an, he's an amateur driver and he got this opportunity to, uh, to drive like a real F1 car. And before he even gets in it, he goes like, they have to do all this testing with him to see if he's even capable to do his stuff. And so he goes, he's, he's sitting in there at one point and he's like, and then they tell, they tell me to, uh, break, to, to press on the break. And the guy's sitting there with the computer locked up to it. And he's like hard, you know, he's telling him harder and he goes, I, and he's describing like, I am stepping on this break with every ounce. It's not hard enough. As I, and he goes. Okay. That'll do. And he's like, what do you mean that he'll do it? And he spins the computer around and he shows them that he's like at 82 pounds of pressure or whatever like that. And he goes, um, well, yeah, he goes, you know, to give you the average F1 driver averages 120. Yeah. Right. Okay. Average. And he goes, he goes, I was pressing with everything I had just to register at 82. He gives it, he gives an example of a normal F1 track. He goes, they'll do, uh, 17 breaking turns. In a single lap. And they'll do 50 something laps of that. So do the math on, on, on, while also managing the G forces, turning change, like, and he's like that, like just because it blew my mind. I had it. I, the first time I realized how crazy it was, was I watched a video from inside the cockpit of a drag of a drag racer. And then I, then from there I watched inside the cockpit of a rally racer of a formula. I don't even know how they know what a drag racer is. Yeah. I don't know what's happening. Yeah. I don't know. You ever seen a drag? It's predictive. You're like, how are you doing this? There's no turns. There's no turns in drag racing. You ever seen what they do with their hands and what that thing looks like inside? No. Just to keep it in the lane is insane. Cause it pulls you so hard. Yeah. You watch it. Like, how would you even rally racing? How does he know what's happening? Like every turn is good. Oh, those ones where they have the passenger like navigating for him. Like freak me out. Cause they don't even know what's around the corner. Well, he was talking about too, like, so with formula one, the G forces and the speeds they're going, he goes, for example, he goes, uh, they show a video of him getting like out of the, out of the car from doing some only so many laps. And he takes his helmet off and he looks like he was just in a 20 round fight. I mean, just drenched in sweat. He looked like you could see him. He can't get out. Like he's so exhausted. He can't get out of the weight before they pull him out. He's like, when you're taking a turn, he goes, imagine you, you're going around turn and he goes, the, the, the G forces that are pushing on your neck is like you try, it's like you with your neck turned with like seven watermelons. On it. And having to like maintain that he goes, just the weight of that, he goes, it's unbelievable. The amount he goes, I couldn't just like you experienced in the jet, like you can't lift your leg off the ground. Cause the G forces, he goes, so when you're, when you're doing that, he goes, there's so much of that G force, your leg is pressed against the side of the, the, and he goes, you can't even pull it off. I got a question, Adam, uh, do they, did you get a chance to ask them about diet and nutrition? And the reason why I ask you is because. Uh, how long are those races? How long are they in the car for? Oh, they can be in there for hours. Okay. Yeah. So nutrition has got to play a role, uh, in all of that. And I wonder if, if any of them use like ketone supplements, like I could see something like ketone IQ sharpness to for mental sharpness, uh, for energy, uh, and you know, I bet you're right. I bet there is, uh, cause if you, you could, first off driving like that, you're going to bonk. Like if you're running or like, well, you know, I bet they probably use very similar. Zach Bitter came on and he talked how he, he runs, he's fat adaptive, but then he runs on carbohydrates. I would, I would, I wonder if that's a common thing, if they, if they try and become fat adapted and then they run on carbs for that, for that. What are you looking up? Yeah. Doug, look at formula one driver diet. I'd like to see with that. I just wanted some facts. I was getting, uh, the routinely experienced between five to 6.5 G's during extreme breaking, which is extremely, that's like a lot of G's that's like straight fighter jet. And then, uh, they're 90 to two out minutes to two hours. So imagine, imagine experiencing that many G's 15, 20 times in a, in a single, in a single lap for hours at a, at a time while navigating around other cars, while taking turns where you have about a half an inch to less between the tire and the wall is wild and they have to, for that. Yeah. He's he's like, we, we do a terrible job. And he goes, and then the, the people that, uh, that, uh, spect or that they, that, um, commentate it, he goes, our other F1 drivers. So when they talk, they talk like it's no big deal, but to the, but the average people have no idea the feeling and the complexity of the stuff that they're, that they're conversing about. And he did such a good breakdown of explaining that relative to all other sport examples that you can, everything else you can kind of get out there and kind of do and go, wow, I can get behind a wake boarding boat and I can ride for a little bit and go and then see the program. And I was like, whoa, just have no idea. But that you're just, there's, there's nothing like it that you can, you can, you can draw an example. I saw you guys drink. You guys are doing the ketone IQ before podcasts now. Yeah. I love doing that. Yeah. It makes a difference. Oh yeah. I could feel the difference and I could just feel too. It's just another way that I can get that memory recall and it's just like, sure. It's my post caffeine drink to keep me going through the rest of the day. And so what I noticed the same, you don't get a stim. It's not a stimulant. No, that's what I'm listening. It's not a stimulus. It's a rubber. So for someone that would use it, this is how I like to use it for what we do and how I would do this. Even if I had like an, a regular eight hour job, uh, it, and if you are a coffee and a caffeine drinker early is you always tend to have this, you know, after your coffee's worn off two or three hours later, this kind of where you cut, where you come down and it's probably somewhere between noon and three for the average person. And then most people have a still a few more hours where, and so that's right where I take Keto and IQ. And so for me, it like, it's then the rest of the podcasting day or whatever kind of work that we're doing, whether we're shooting or doing other stuff, um, it, it keeps that, that mental sharpness keeps you without the weird energy up and down crashing that I get from caffeine. It's to me, it's the perfect, and I know they make ones with caffeine. So if you like to, if you like both, but that's how I use it. I like the non-caffeine ones after I drag my caffeine after it. Exactly. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. or I'll mess up my sleep then when that wears off two or three hours later or whatever then I have the ketone IQ and then that's like keeps me for the rest of the day uh you know what's going getting kind of shared all over right now is this new study on red light and how it affects the body really yeah so I know I mean I know you know we're not supposed to talk about our partner juve right now it's not scheduled but I just I have to talk about this because it's flying everywhere and uh it's actually one of the craziest things I've ever seen so they compared I'm gonna read this to you so they compared red light therapy to a group without red light both of them similar diet both of them Mediterranean diet do you know what they found between the two the difference uh the group that used the red light everything else was the same the group that used the red light lost more fat I mean yeah but it's actually there by the way efficiency by the way their lipids improved better than the other group uh inflammatory markers are better than the other group check this out so waist circumference in in particular the group that uh the the group without red light therapy lost six centimeters around their waist you want to know how much the group with red light therapy lost 15 whoa more than double wow from red light so wait okay would you just from how would you explain how would you explain to a five-year-old what mitochondrial health is oh god for a five year old yeah yeah like it's the brain of the a cell and so like no it's the engine or the engine okay so so there you go so that's how you say so basically all of your cells have an engine that help them function yeah the stronger the engine the better the cell better cell so there you go so not so not so of course duh that if it works better if all your cells are used to running on a you know v6 and now you've supercharged it or built it to a v8 or v12 like it's just gonna you're you're gonna perform better on all aspects I would imagine uh strength would be better endurance would be better stamina would be better well there's other fat loss would be better this day just shows it builds muscle too right this is the wildest it's the wildest thing because you're sitting in front of light yeah that's it you're literally just sitting in front of light do this on a regular basis I want a bed I want a bed you know at the gym I go to they just opened a recovery room and they have these they look like saunas but they're not and they're just red light so you sit in there and you're surrounded by red light yeah I want to I want to lay in a bed of them yeah either that or like the whole shower thing I've always talked about where I've like turned my whole kind of shower area into it's because I'm in there twice a day so I could just blast it like that yeah that's I want to find a way to do it like that uh would be ideal because all the benefits of that dude so I saw something uh that scientists just came out with that uh it was like a hydrogel like a skin that actually is a healing uh so you you put it on wounds and it's apparently it heals 90 percent more effectively wow which is pretty wild so I feel like skin missing or a burn yeah just put it on you put it on in in the hydrogel like acts as just like this cooling heat like a healing agent oh wow is it a new technology yeah let me yeah I want to see what Doug pulls up here well another guy well that's like no like commercial stuff look up the scientific breakthrough yeah uh moisture rich environment uh yeah uh let me see if I get yeah scientific breakthrough because hydrogel you can do it hydrogel is a good idea but I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure about it I'm not sure I'll research on burns let's try that yeah I bet we'll find something like that let's see what that looks like uh you know if this hosting and podcasting doesn't work I think you could totally do the google I'll be the I'll be over there the googler I thought that was a batman maybe that'll be the evolution maybe that'll be the evolution of like as our young team comes up you eventually get out of this chair you just just sell right on the screen when I get mad it's like say this this is what you need to say yeah interesting oh nanozymes okay okay all right all right Justin yeah I thought it was cool yeah very interesting that is interesting I have some uh I had some thoughts on cold immersion therapy or like ice baths oh you were mentioning that off off air yeah so here's you know have you seen have you watched the uh bell curve of it the rise and fall yeah yeah it's it was like this everybody do it nobody was doing it's been around forever so it's like this right and then all of a sudden it was like this huge this is the greatest thing ever companies are popping up everywhere it's amazing amazing and then now you have the this is terrible for building muscle it's a waste of time it's overrated so and that's so it's like a bell curve yeah no so I so one thing I hate about fitness is or should I say fitness media uh is that everything falls under the category of lose fat build muscle if it doesn't do that or god forbid it reduces some of that even though it may produce all these other benefits and even though if you understand exercise science there are ways to implement some of these tools to maximize other things who cares because the study shows that it reduces uh hypertrophy okay so here's the problem so here's where this started uh studies were done on people who strength train and then who did cold water immersion versus those that didn't here's what the study showed people who did cold water immersion post-workout built less muscle okay this is true one of the reasons why this this this happens is it reduces the inflammatory response to the body and it reduces the inflammatory response to the body and it reduces the inflammatory response to the body and it reduces the inflammatory pathways and kind of the set the cell signaling yeah that tells the body to build muscle so part of the the the inflammation you get afterwards it's telling your body to repair and build muscle so when you blunt that you're probably going to build less muscle but I was working out today and I was thinking to myself what about strength what about strength now muscle size contributes to strength but a lot of strength is has to do with your central nervous system and just how your your strength organizes itself and how well you fire it and how well you fire it and how well you fire it in order to lift something does it have a negative effect on strength so I looked up some studies and the effect on strength is far smaller than the one on hypertrophy and just to be clear the effect on hypertrophy is also small so it's not a huge effect by the way on hypertrophy it's small the effect on strength is either smaller to none so what that means is using cold water therapy might make you build imperceptible to you but if we did a study we might see less muscle but it probably doesn't negatively affect strength or it doesn't affect strength so I'm thinking to myself this is this is a this could be a valuable tool for athletes because one of the things you have to balance when you're an athlete so much volume repetition you got to get through yeah like a lot of like when you go lift weights to build muscle you stimulate you leave but when you're an athlete a lot of your practice is getting good at your your skills yeah getting good at the technique getting good at how to muscular how to catch how to run how to jump how to twist you know even if you're a strength athlete how to do a power clean how to do a squat how to do a deadlift a bench press a lot of that is the skill of the lift and what prevents you from constantly practicing that skill is that you can't you over train your body can't heal right you know you can't do football practice 12 hours a day because you would just die so what's limiting you is the ability to adapt or recover so your theory with that then is that you get to maintain all those like points of practice and so you're actually able to kind of keep skill training but not necessarily you know increase the size of your muscle you can do more you know that you know that this theory that you're talking about right now is not original by any means well they've been using it for a long time this is this is why during this whole bell curve pro athletes have never skipped a beat on how they use they don't listen to any of these cryotherapy ice pass and ice yeah it's never helped you you can watch an NBA game and never once have we broken stride with a player coming off the court to sit down and instantly they're putting ice on his knees right away and it's because they don't give a if it uh helps with uh is bench press or is leg press or squad or they don't care if it adds or let muscle it's like he's got a body yeah exactly they're preserving the body they got to perform they're going to perform at a high level and they do it multiple times sometimes in a day it's not just that when you look at the studies that are looking at ice therapy versus non-ice therapy what they didn't do is increase the volume on the ice therapy group because they can handle more volume okay so if I take two groups and I'm comparing them and I do ice therapy or cold water immersion I can now add more training stress there's your there's your original theory that's what I'm great or great point is that you could you're making the case that it's not well this is kind of like how we talk about the studies that are around uh volume and stuff yes is that it's like they they say if the volume is the same but the truth is if you split up your workouts you're doing more volume because you're stronger exactly less fatigue yeah and so and so like in a in a in the real world the study isn't isn't a great one to use because it doesn't really apply because you're going to get way more reps in and way more practice in in which that's right better at that skill so let's just say let me just use strength sport let's say you want to get a PR in your deadlift and right now when you train with your deadlifts twice a week is about as maybe a heavy day in a light day okay and that's about as much as you do and you do your auxiliary work but you find if you do more than that you tend to break down and get hurt and you just kind of over train well what if cold water immersion allows you to deadlift three days a week you get a smaller build muscle signal I know I know this is anecdotal but I will tell you from experience um when I was competing I was doing all the things recovery yeah cryotherapy I was getting massages every other night or every night from Katrina uh the amount that I could put put towards my squats and deadlifts. I'm that's exactly what I am now. Two times a week, one time being intense is about all my body can handle because I'm, I'm constantly in this kind of recovery state, but I'm not doing any of those things. I'm not doing all the things to facilitate that. So I absolutely am not, cannot handle nowhere near the volume that I was doing. And of course those were my peak strength times. And so the question is, why would you want to increase your volume so you could practice more so it could practice the lifts more so I could practice my sport more. So if you just want to build muscle, okay, then you don't, uh, you don't necessarily need it. Uh, there's maybe some additional value and other areas, maybe use it separately from your workouts or whatever. Fine. Right. But if you can gain value from practicing your lifts or your skills more often, which pretty much everybody would gain, would gain value from that cold water immersion would allow you to do those things. Yeah. So now it's, instead of squatting twice a week, if I want to get a PR, I can squat three days a week. And because why, because I do cold water immersion. Oh, but you're building less muscle. Yeah. But I'm squatting an extra day a week. I think that pretty much negates the fact that I'm losing. I'll add to this theory. Um, and it was Dr. Brink who got me to do this first. And I don't know if any of you guys have experimented with this before you do cryotherapy or do an ice bath pre-workout. It's crazy. Those are some of the best workouts I've ever had. Yeah. I mean that, like, so everybody traditionally focused, you are the more, yeah, you can recruit. Dude, traditionally everybody is, uses them as a post workout thing, uh, to bring down inflammation and everything like that. But, or you might see some people that use it first thing in the morning when they wake up to try and start their day with that, which I think is incredibly beneficial. Um, cause I've done that. Um, but try using it, you know, 10, 15 minutes before you go into a workout and watch your workout fatigue in the workout. Dude, but I'll tell you, I'll give you an example, right? So, uh, you know, cause I, I've been doing jujitsu here and there. Um, and it's totally different from lifting weights or whatever. And the truth is if I want to get good at jujitsu faster, the best thing I could do is do more jujitsu, but the limiting factor is my body. I can't do it every single day cause it hurts and my body breaks down and I need rest. Right. But if I do cold water immersion afterwards, I can do more than I would be able to, had I not done cold water immersion, therefore my jujitsu skills will improve that much faster. And so I don't think we should throw out cold water immersion as this tool. I just think we got to use it in the right way, use in the right way. Cold water immersion could be remarkable. If I was training an athlete, here's the deal. Every coach knows this. The more you can train your athletes, the more they can practice, the better they'll get faster, but you have to balance it with recovery. You're always balancing with recovery. And so it's like, okay, I got it. I got to give my kids or my athletes or whatever more rest because we're just pushing it too hard. But what if I can increase it with recovery? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But if I can increase the volume that they can handle through a simple thing, like here, jump in this cold bucket full of ice and water after our workout, now we can do an additional workout. Well, there's also the other thing that these studies aren't measuring either that we talk a lot about is the behavioral benefits of these things too. The mental benefits of this, the mental benefits of committing to something that is hard. By the way, I don't care how many days in a row you do it. It's hard every time. Every time. Every time I was doing it, I went on a streak for a really long time of being super consistent with it. And I tell you what, not one day got easier like to get in. Like once I got in, the breathing technique got easier. Like I learned how to call my, which is also, also really beneficial for you. Okay. To learn how to calm your central nervous system down like that. Focus on your breathing under stress, right? So super beneficial to, uh, that got better, but it was hard to get in every single time. And there's, there's gotta be, uh, some benefits to consistently doing hard things. That you don't want to do that have carry over to other aspects of your life. It just annoys me because the, yeah, cause we tease it out to fat loss or millimuscle. Yeah. And I said, well, how are you using it? What are you using it for? Um, don't throw it out, uh, because there's some value for a lot of people listening right now. If you're one of those people that is trying to get better at something and you're limited by your recovery, this could allow you to train more and to practice more often thus making you better faster. And so I think it's this really cheap, cool tool that people should still use in the right context. What is dose for your liver? Look dose for your liver is clinically backed liver health supplements. Not just another capsule of powder. It's a liquid supplement. You take it daily two ounces at a time. It tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice. Now cleanses the liver of unwanted stressors that are slowing your liver down and it promotes daily liver function. So your liver can do its job. So no sugar, no junk, no calories. Now, what does the liver even do? It's your body's filter. It promotes daily liver function. So you want to think energy production, digestion, fat metabolism, vitamin storage. The liver helps make these processes happen every single day. And when it's overworked, you feel it. You feel sluggish. You don't have any good energy. Your skin doesn't look as good. Well, doses liver supplement has been shown in some clinical trials to reduce liver enzymes. This stuff actually works. Give it a shot. Go to dose daily.co slash mind pump. Use code mind pump three five and get 35% off your first month's subscription. Back to the show. Our first caller is Chris from Connecticut. What's up, Chris? How you doing, Chris? Hey, guys, what's going on? What's going on, man? How can we help you? So let me just get right into it. And I'll read my email. A little nervous. Can't believe I'm actually seeing you guys. I listen every day. It's kind of crazy. Welcome to the party. Oh, man, this is awesome. All right. So I'm 53 years old, married father, two daughters, 21 and 19. I was an athlete growing up, played multiple sports, hockey until I was 26. Once I got married, had kids, stopped training, spent the next 15 years heavily involved coaching both my daughters through softball. My oldest played division three. My youngest right now is playing division one. Before realizing that my oldest, bodybuilding was her passion. So she left school, came home and started training and participating in shows where she actually placed in a couple of shows. Now my younger daughter is still playing division one softball. So I don't regret any of the time that I spent with them and doing that. But I did stop taking care of myself during that process. So since then, I've kind of been on a break. And I've been in the business for a long time. But it came back. Then around 2010, 2011, I started caring for my dad, who was dying from cancer. And I was dealing with a really difficult boss, which put me under tremendous stress. I dropped to 140 pounds. People thought I was sick. And then that weight came back to once life got more comfortable. I put that weight back on. 2015, I got back up to probably close to 200 pounds. So dealing with a bad back. And I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Which I did from remodeling my house. An injury in 2000, which I tore my meniscus twice. So I had knee surgery twice for that, which took me again away from training. And then a couple years ago, I thought I finally got it right. I worked with a trainer, dialed in my diet. After about eight months, I got down to my lowest body fat ever. I was about 15%. I got down to 167 pounds. I gained three pounds of muscle. I lost 24 pounds of fat. I lost 15 pounds of muscle. I lost 15 pounds of fat. And then I developed bicep tendon. So I tore my bicep tendon, ruptured it. I just had it repaired in May. So since then, I've been off my diet, barely training. I do legs probably four times a week. And even that's like been sliding off. I walk about three miles a day, which is a pretty hilly route. So I kind of get my heart rate up and a little bit of sweat when I'm doing that. But I feel myself just sliding back into my old patterns. So, my wife's listened to you guys for years. And she finally got on me and said, you know, you need to do this. So I said, yeah, I hear myself in your show almost every day. Every day I listen and I hear something that resonates with me in my life. So my question then is, you know, how do I get back on track after a setback like this? I'm 53 with back issue, knee issue. And now, you know, the torn bicep that's still healing right now. Instead of just ending up in another situation, I'm like, I'm going to do this. Like I said, I keep going up and down for the last 15, 20 years. I want to, and I want to white knuckle it, right? I hear you guys saying that all the time. I feel like, you know, I don't want to do that and just lose that fat and get in shape and then throw something else comes along and it throws me right back to where I was. So I want to do something that I can sustain, give me a good approach and maintain where I want to be. Thanks for everything you guys do. You guys, you guys are awesome. Chris, how, how is, uh, how's your current like, um, work schedule right now? Cause it's like building something with consistency. You want to make sure we keep in mind like what, what work sleep, all that stuff looks like right now. Yeah. Yeah. So I work, you know, some days it's eight, some days it's 10, 12 hours. I work from home. I manage a team of about 10 people all over the world. Um, a technology company, somewhat sedentary, but, um, my company's huge on, you know, staying healthy. So we all try to get out in the afternoon, take a walk, step away from, from the job. That's my thing. - Good, good, good. - Yeah, so, I mean, the prescription or what i should what i'll recommend is is pretty simple and easy i think i know exactly what would be a good idea for you obviously we're going to start slow the challenge is the cycling that you keep mentioning and i'm going to just point to the root of that if that's okay yeah absolutely you're an athlete for 26 years yeah uh and so it's really hard to change that mentality so probably happens is you start working out the athlete comes out and you get competitive and you just go too hard and then you get hurt and you're set back and you got to rehab and get better and then oh i'm feeling good again and then you go too hard again and so we got we got we got to train appropriately we got to get out of that mindset there's nothing wrong with the mindset of wanting to improve and compete uh but you're in the 26 year old headspace uh every time you get into it yeah and you know when you were 26 you were 26 and you had a background of of consistent activity and sports whereas right now uh you're in the 26 year old headspace uh every time you get into it yeah and you know when you you're older but also you don't have that consistent like i've been playing sports now for a while you took a long time off uh to raise your daughters uh and get them you know to the places they are so uh what your workout's going to look like is is probably like a maps 15 performance uh it's got a it's got a good athletic component to it it's not going to feel like a lot but i think that'll be appropriate for you yeah okay uh and you're going to do that for a while you're gonna do that for a long time when you start to feel really good and stable and strong i love i love for you going out and finding something recreationally that you can do with uh with other people that you enjoy but do it for the fun of it and try to train with and and do that with men your age okay okay if you start going out and getting competitive and playing against the 20 year olds this is where you'll start to get uh you'll go a little too far but you go with a bunch of 50 something year olds play pickleball or something like that i love that for a guy like you because there's that component of fun and that competitive component that i think is fine but i do think you're going to need to be on like maps 15 performance style workouts for a while before we do something like that one of my favorite parts about training athletes is um you know athletes have that competitive drive that i like i just i just gotta get you to reframe uh like what working out nutrition and how to use your competitiveness in other words don't compete in your workouts your workouts are designed to take care of your body if you compete somewhere compete in your consistency around nutrition compete with how many days you string together of good sleep compete on those types of things so use that competitive side to you of like discipline and like i can do this every day consider like but it's but take that away from the the workout like don't go in the workout going like i'm gonna see if i can get 10 more of these or i'm gonna throw you know get get that out of that i'm i'm here when you go to work out you know maybe you got to change the music you listen to or you just a mindset you come in with but when you come in it's more like i'm practicing these movements i want to feel good through these movements i should feel good when i walk out it's not go go crush it like get get that get that athletic mindset out of your workout when you lift weights and and train to be more recuperative which is a hard transition but once that clicks it's and then take the competitive side to the other shit to my diet like being dialed on that being consistent and competitive with how many days in a row can you eat perfect and like be so just switch that switch that and if you can do that you will really unlock uh this like great healthy balance of taking care of yourself yeah take down all those no pain no gain posters in your garage and uh yeah it's just a lot harder than a lot of people think you know if it's yeah you've been an athlete and um it's served you well it's it's it's helped you on the field or it's you know you've seen what it does for performance right however you know what's going to serve you going on forward here is to be able to really figure that out like how does this workout actually benefit uh my overall energy and the way that i feel i should feel better i should feel more energized after each workout and that's where i stop and so the the real workout for you is to learn how to taper that off and stop and then wait save that for the next day then the next day then the next day and it's it's something that i battle it all the time so i'm like you know i hear all these words and i'm agreeing with them completely but i i do know how hard that is and it's definitely gonna gonna be so much better for you on the other side of that because you're gonna feel good but strong and also very much more capable to do a lot of these athletic moves that you you know did in the past and chris i think you know after you follow mass 15 performance and you finish it i think it'd be a good idea to go if you liked your trainer sound like they did a good job be a good idea to work with a trainer once a week or so to kind of you know work with you for the next six months or so i think that'd be a good i don't know i tore my bicep tendon with them so i don't know well let me ask you this were they pushing you were you super hard just like you said like i don't realize it until you just said that so i got locked into like you know they were like hey let's do this six weeks challenge and i was probably the second oldest guy in it yeah yeah yeah man i was like the second workouts in it yeah literally literally look at like i just told you like your workouts no longer like i don't like i know every we talk about prs you've been you've been working out and exercise for such a long time i don't need you hitting prs and squats every every couple months like just you go in you live weights you practice lifting weights you've got good muscle memory from somebody who's probably been lifting weights most of their life trust me the muscle will come right back if you put it into dieting you're going to have the physique you want you work on the the maps 15 that's going to work on the multi-directional movements and unilateral work you'll start feeling great again you'll feel really good but that's the problem i'm worried about right like my back and my knees like i don't want to mess that up and like i know my back and my knees i don't want to mess that up and like i know what i can get to and like i said when i was down that like a few months ago i looked the best i've ever looked in my life and i felt the best i ever felt in my life and then i just reversed it i have this issue with food right it's like big joke in my house and like i'll go off the diet and stop tracking and then i just put 10 pounds back on 15 pounds back on so yeah hit your protein target stick to whole natural foods follow maps 15 performance and after you do that i think mass 15 symmetry would be another good program for you and that right there is going to give you a good five to six months okay we i have you ever you have we have something cool that i think he would do really good with too uh i don't know if you've ever heard us talk about our concierge program but you'd be a great candidate for that just to check in just a once a month check-in um that would be great because i need i feel like i need a coach like i need that type of accountability yeah yeah okay yeah i was able to do it for my daughters when i was training them and getting them locked in and their teams i was able to do it for myself if i don't have that i will definitely start to i think i think you'd be great you're a great candidate for that uh so we're gonna have somebody call you uh they'll set that up with you and i think that's perfect for someone like you just to check in with you on a monthly basis make sure you got a plan you execute the plan they'll check in with you and they'll keep you paced right as far as you can alter it and modify it i don't want to hurt my back again like i deal with that i got my knee like i just want to make sure movements are right yeah that's they'll also they'll also customize your workouts for you too so like yeah we'll send over a program for you right now but they're going to customize it to make it for you and so that communication that you just let them know how things are going how you feeling they'll change modify what they need to and then uh i think you're gonna you're gonna crush dude we'll take care of you okay yeah cool all right that'll be awesome thanks all right chris thanks man thanks guys all right brother that uh so i've said this before on the show the some of the hardest clients i ever trained were ex-athletes and it wasn't because they couldn't move well it wasn't because they couldn't build muscle because they can actually do that better than most clients it was the mentality it was like we would do an appropriate workout and they'd look at me like what are we doing i'm wasting my time yeah because you're they know their mindset is set on when they were competing it's like this this is a total mindset shift it was very difficult yeah once you get them to switch though it's amazing yeah i mean that that's why i brought up what i did because no you're right it's hard to take the athlete completely out so i just have to get them to be be yeah be competitive somewhere else like i'm all cool like i love the competitive side so let me lean into that instead of like trying to take it away from you completely just stop being competitive with your workouts yeah your workouts are recuperative your workouts are to take care of you your workouts are to bulletproof your joints your workouts are like that you walk out of this gym and i want you to feel energized therapy your sanctuary yes yeah yeah yeah let's get competitive on all the other aspects and so let's go and that will serve him way way more our next caller is kyle from delaware what's up dude what's up kyle what up how you guys doing how you doing man appreciate you having me on not too bad uh been been so surreal just just seeing this here been listening since i think it was like episode 50 or something like that so you guys you guys really come along yeah you've been with us for a long time yeah i think we need to do one of those uh justin seven week uh shreds again let's get that going yeah all right well i'll kind of get into it um the whole question is uh me and my wife were expecting our first uh baby here in january congratulations um thank you so much um i've had a little bit of a knee issue going on for about two years now and and the goal really is you know to be an active dad um being able to run around and all the fun stuff you know that young dads get to do um so that's kind of the preface of my new goal i guess to kind of figure all this out um i'm 30 years old sitting around 270 right now i'm not sure what my body fat is at um i i was i was training was using anabolic uh put on i mean shot on anabolic i put on so much muscle from that program it's it's actually ridiculous but i was i was doing like a charity alumni game for basketball for my school and after the game it swelled up and um kind of has been like uh took about a week or so to go down um i went ahead and i didn't see a doctor for quite some time um just thought it was just swelling from after the game went ahead and um went back into the gym was able to kind of squat a little bit but still had some pain took another couple days off ended up putting a um just a knee brace on it with some icy hot was able to kind of push through it a little bit um kind of worked for a week then again had some more swelling took some more time off um and then kind of really started falling off just kind of discouraged seeing a physical therapist he um he noticed that there was maybe some uh under quad development on that side um so i kind of worked with that i tried you know doing some leg extensions just to isometric it out but um i was just the leg was really shaky i didn't have much connection to my quad anymore um so still started working on that i had a i got like a a pop on my hip too so i figured maybe there's some uh hip mobility stuff going on but started working on that like the mobility side of things it didn't got a little bit better but it never like really went away fast forward some more months go by um the knee swelling's not really that bad it kind of went down but then we're on a hike in in west virginia and it swells up like terrible and my fiancee kind of convinced me then to go see a doctor so when we get back i kind of get that scheduled they do an x-ray an mri take out like three uh tubes of fluid and um she didn't notice anything with the mri she said she maybe had some old acl mcl injuries um but that was the cause she noticed that there was a decent bit of arthritis though um my dad has had both his knees replaced from kind of the similar things he used to work construction so just being on his knees and using them a lot so i she didn't really have much for me she said i'm 30 it's either she gave me a cortisone i believe um and she and that kind of helped but again never i couldn't still get back to like jogging like it just was too much pain i have little nieces and nephews couldn't really run around with them much so um kind of just fast forward to today it's it's still kind of there um anytime i do like especially i noticed like i went golfing the other week or after i wrote in and it swelled up again on me and so i had to take a whole week off um the whole process too i'm kind of not as adam like say kind of ate like an asshole wasn't training as much as i should probably put on like i was maybe 220 210 at the time now i'm kind of like 260 270 so i'm sure the weight has something to do with it but um yeah just trying to get back to to kind of being able to jog around and and squat i miss squatting yeah good good congratulations on the baby by the way i appreciate it so this is i'm glad you got imaging uh so it rules out any current injury uh it sounds like classic um movement pattern issue okay so the knee joint the knee joint the knee joint and the knee joint and the knee joint are the same thing uh can move in an optimal way it can also move in a sub-optimal way and depending on how bad your movement is and this could be due to imbalance of in weakness in the quad it could be in the hip it could be in the ankle might be the quad because that's what the pt noticed but it could be also connected like i said to a couple other things but depending on how bad your your your movement pattern is for the joint of the knee the more movement you do with it the worse it's going to feel so like the hiking made it feel bad the basketball game made it feel bad golf uh golf and then you mentioned your weight and if you gained a significant amount of weight if you're pre if you're you know pressurizing the hinges at 220 you can you've now amplified that dramatically let's say 260 or 270 okay right the the recommendation is is uh pretty straightforward and what your babies do when in january january yeah so i'm going to give you two programs i never do that but i like you because map symmetry is your program okay that's the program you need to follow and i want you to do it in january so i'm going to give you two programs the last phase okay so it's all unilateral that's going to help quite a bit uh after you're done with that i'm going to give you maps 15 uh performance uh or symmetry one of the two i'll see what justin thinks because that'll be the program you do when you have your baby because you're going to be sleeping crap you're going to be you need to be there for a wife and so it's just far less volume it's far more appropriate and in the meantime you know what we talk about when it comes to diet hit your protein stick the whole natural foods if you combine that together you're going to do great yeah i i kind of implemented that a little bit just i think you had an episode on a couple weeks ago about just cutting that out so i caught that off down five pounds in the four weeks just kind of not touching much just just kind of hitting it and again it's it used to be a lot of body body imaging that would like kind of drive my goals and now it's it's not really that anymore um i did try symmetry has like a um a pistol squat i wasn't able to get is there like modifications or something just modifications anything anything in there that doesn't feel right don't do it yeah okay yeah just don't do it for now because you do have some stuff going on with your knee yeah yeah and i you know in the beginning of symmetry which is great too because you'll get into these split stance positions and to really kind of reinforce the recruitment part of that and and try to you know gain that strength stability there especially the quad and um you know in the hips um you know take your time like really it's about like slowing down quite a bit and feeling your way through a lot of these things uh so you can get that kind of security and get the track a lot better get that knee hinge to really be like securing on that um fluid movement kind of pattern you're actually a you're actually a case where you would find me actually using a machine quite a bit a leg press would do a single leg leg press with you would be a good movement so when you're like leg extension yeah yeah so uh this is a exam i know we talk so much about where you're currently at right now where you know single leg machine stuff is is okay until we start to one lean out a little bit get some stability and strength in there and support and balance out um and then the other thing i would caution you is like just caution you of like you know when you start feeling good you get a little bit of momentum don't get too hyped up yeah don't get all excited go for a jog okay and go do that just keep keep progressing uh and stick with the programming because that's where we could go set yourself back is you know go on out and doing something like that when we're not ready yeah if we can really like install new movement patterns for you you're gonna you're gonna thrive you're gonna get to a place where you haven't been before where you're actually gonna be like really strong and your movement's gonna be sick so without pain and that's what we want right so right so make sure you really take your time with us kyle did you say what what do you do for work what do you are you on your feet you sit what do you gotta go what do you do yeah so i used to i used to be doing lawn care and i was lawn care i've just uh used to work construction so i used to be moving around a lot then i got an office job oh wow and so now i sell fireplaces now so i'm kind of uh just sitting around i get to go on some job sites but it's even with my wife we just don't we both work on offices so we've been trying to you know practice walking more it's it's difficult um i think i was averaging like 2 000 steps for quite some time so kind of making more effort to at least hit 5 000 or that's a good target yeah i like that yeah yeah so i mean it's it's it's like um a movement pattern is that something that can change because yes before this game like i mean i was squatting i had like 380 was able to put down i'm talking pain free yeah felt powerful is that was i overcompensating in some area so here's that yeah but here's what might have happened okay because movement pattern issues can develop post-injury okay so something you did in that game aggravated your knee diverted and then after that now you're moving in a when you're squatting you're moving in one plane and so you may be you could have been really strong in one plane right incredibly weak laterally i mean this example of me this is why i kept getting hurt doing sports and shit like i'm strong deadlifting and squatting all day long because i've been consistently doing that and getting so strong that way but it asked me to cut in basketball and i blow my knees out right now too because i've just i haven't been training my body that way and you know you're 30 now you're not 18 anymore you used to probably be able to squat a bunch of weight and then not play basketball for a while then get out there and play basketball no problem and be fine but you know welcome to getting older and and only getting strong in one plane this is what happens and so we got to take care of take care of yourself and to that point that's why i was bringing up the split stance i'd be challenging you as a trainer uh you know rotationally or laterally uh just to maintain position while you're you know adjusting to these forces because you know that might be part of the problem is just like you know you're in your life and then you're just going like that's right zero to a hundred so you know like it just you know give yourself a little you know a slack with that like that's something that you know we need to bring a little attention to have you seen the video where a great movement to get to uh would be like have you ever seen the video justin doing the lateral sled drag before uh i mean i've watched everything yeah if you go go on to my mind pump tv and look up the lateral set sled drag that justin does and i would get to a place where i start you with like no weight like super light, just you're just walking the sled empty. Yeah. and then slowly progress that teach these movements back you know like think about the last time you've really like been intentional with that stuff so you have to like really progress it just like you're progressing weights okay yeah so do i why i think i have symmetry and and when i follow that am i kind of chasing like pushing my knee into positions that i know it should be getting into even though it's painful or am i kind of like finding the areas it's not painful how am i play within the find the line yes so play within the boundaries a little bit yeah okay you challenge the boundaries a little bit but don't go beyond them because it'll get better yeah and then progressively and then copy that form and that range of motion with your strong leg don't do better stuff with your strong leg or you're going to maintain the balance and you can you care more about form and stability of the movement than you do adding more weight to the exercise so be cautious of that right so challenging the range and being and slow so this is more a movement pattern thing so when it's movement pattern stuff it's it's it's stability range of motion that's the stuff that we're trying to focus on and so don't get all giddy and just keep throwing more weight on because you feel good i think slow it down slow the tempo down if it gets easier for you slow it down challenge the range of motion and challenge the range of motion and the range a little bit further this week and a little bit further next week like that's the thought process so like with the leg extensions like when i get that shaky like it one of my legs coming up it starts yes so kind of chase chase that just slow that down and kind of slow it down and squeeze and pause so get the top of that hold it there for a second come down so as you that that's what you want to do and that's shaking this will go away if you practice that yeah it'll go away okay so like do you think it's you don't think like the arthritis like nothing to be so so here's the deal there's arthritis there they saw it can it get better with good movement yes can it get worse with bad movement yes just so you know all arthritis is is is fluid that's that's being sent in that area because being aggravated it's being aggravated because we have poor movement patterns so that can totally so i had like bursitis which is like arthritis in your hips right that's like which is just fluid i guess once i fixed all my hip mobility movements i don't have it anymore it doesn't happen anymore so we can fix that you can totally so when they look on imaging right so arthritis looks like deterioration of a joint uh you don't have uh immune related arthritis yours is related to movement pattern issues correct those the arthritis heals okay okay cool that's that's very helpful yeah you got it dude you got it man yeah i appreciate it yeah thanks for calling in man thanks for listening for so long yeah yeah have a good day yeah take it easy brother take it easy see ya that's awesome crazy 18 years old was he 18 18 we started all the way to 30 a bunch of muscle off anabolic yeah that's pretty cool dude that's great that's wild if he does what we say he'll feel so much better i know but when you don't when you don't fix uh and it's cool that he got imaging because the imaging show there's no major injury that's going on you're just your knee is not moving great and it could be related to a few different things but once we fix that it's fine you know we should really do an episode on like arthritis and bursitis and talk a lot about that because i feel like a lot this is what i can't say like the doctor tells you that and then it makes it sound like oh i've caught this thing that my dad had my mom had now i got it now i can't do these things as i have i have arthritis right bursitis and it's just like dude you could totally address that yeah it's like it doesn't just stop right there and and the doctor when they say i've heard it i've heard him tell me that when they tell you they tell you almost like you caught it you caught this disease you caught like a disease or something it's like it's a permanent diagnosis yeah yeah they did that with one of our coaching staffs and i don't know if you can see it but they did that with one of our coaching staffs and the doctor afterwards was like how did you get your osteopenia reversed she's like i'm lifting weights and eating more yeah yeah it's like dude we can reverse it absolutely fix this man bursitis is very different from arthritis well they're both fluid that's sent over no so bursitis is inflammation of the bursa yeah arthritis is the joint itself both cause fluid to come in but they're both different oh very different well i mean obviously there's a different diagnosis of both of them but both of them are causing fluid to get fluid to come in and they're both different it's filled up the fluid yeah yeah here we're saying yeah yeah yeah yeah our next caller is michael from louisiana michael how's it going what's up man hey guys this is uh it's crazy to actually be here i'm a little bit nervous how can we help you all right so i'll uh i'll get into my question uh my letter real quick um i'm 65 year old guy got back into lifting seriously about three years ago after starting trt and my strength gains and body recomp have been great but lately i have some chronic knee pain from my leg routine um i injured my right knee in my 20s by pushing too much weight on a nautilus leg press way back in the day and since then i've been very strict about form and never tried to push any crazy weights with on the squats so a few weeks ago it was leg day and i was doing squats and i felt an uncomfortable twerk in that knee and stupidly thought i could just keep going and i was like oh my god i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm going for another set thinking maybe i had just let my form drift a little bit and even though i wasn't pushing a lot of weight it just wasn't going to happen so then i tried to switch to leg extensions but that was way too painful and had to just bail on the whole workout immediately and then later in the day when i got to work i couldn't do the stairs at all so i had to use the elevator like like all those old people and that really hurt me so my question is if squats are no longer on the table for me what other movements can i do to safely keep my legs trained to the same degree just a little bit of background i'm six feet tall 200 pounds about 16 to 18 percent body fat and prior to starting trt and getting back in the gym i was a very weak and skinny fat guy at 195 pounds i've used the bpc 157 and tb 500 peptide stack in the past for a long time and with some success with other injuries and uh did the same thing for this knee and uh after a few weeks uh it's really helped a lot so uh just wanted to turn it over you guys and see what you would recommend i'm trying to do the math right now quick in my head how much muscle i was like damn you put some good muscle on dude that's like 15 to 20 pounds yes dude that's super impressive that's phenomenal good for you bro this is actually kind of easy michael uh there's because a lot of there's a lot of leg exercises you could do but i think the question you're asking is hey i want to be able to maintain uh the ability to squat uh which is important because you could there's a lot of machines you could do split stance exercises they're all good pushing the sled is great sled would be a huge i think that's great uh but if you want to keep squatting and you want to reduce the risk of injury or put differently make it quote unquote safer or reduce the skill component of the squat and still maintain kind of its effects a box squat is where you go i don't know if you've ever done box squats but a box squat is phenomenal it stops that that you know at the bottom of the of the squat you got to change directions that shift in momentum uh is a higher risk of injury it requires more stability and strength with a box you slowly sit down you wait for two seconds then you stand back up and it's uh a lot you know quote unquote safer uh than a traditional squat when it comes to injury so you're literally going down and just sitting on uh yeah yeah so what you do is you get stopping all momentum yeah so you get a bit of weight you get a little bit of weight and then you get a bench a bench works good how low do you normally squat when you do a squat um ass to grass usually all okay so you get a bench uh typical bench is probably a decent height uh you put it behind you you back up with the weight you brace your core you slowly squat until you sit on the bench actually sit don't hit the bench by the way that's how people hurt themselves on the box squat you slowly sit you wait on the bench for two seconds then you stand up what you don't do is go up and down up and down like yeah because that's the same thing as the bench thing is the other the other good cue or key is when you sit on the bench don't relax your core no so don't rest so don't sit and rest like you you're still tense and but you're sitting and you're but you're sitting so your butt is actually on there but you're sitting you're still upright with the chest high and core activated and then you come back and then you stand up and that's that's just it's a squat it's still a squat it just takes out part of the rep uh that requires the most uh stability and control okay yeah i i normally do like a 40 split and then one day uh for cardio i've just uh worked in spin class i had it this morning i'm telling you after three weeks of just laying completely off leg work and then just i think the peptides help i guess uh and i feel pretty much back to full good yeah mobility but i'm just being really careful i don't want to smart yeah smart common that's actually the one thing that i that that's a little scary about bbc and tb is you you recover so much faster false confidence and i've and i've had a couple of times where i've kind of re-hurt my hurt myself because i was like man i felt so good already and then went right back at it so just take it easy go yeah take it easy getting back into it that's i'm glad you said that adam yeah uh but yeah they work really they work really well but it sounds like you might have strained your meniscus the that's a very common uh kind of tweak you know or later on it feels a lot worse uh especially uh with squatting uh maybe a little torsion on the knee uh maybe your ankle mobility could use some work so that there would be something else i would look at would look at ankle mobility because if your feet want to turn out but they're grounded you got twisting on the knee and then that sometimes can cause uh meniscus uh issues yeah i believe my ankles are a little bit pronated i had some um um pulled muscle in a in my calf um okay uh and uh did some x-rays and the uh orthopedic told me i had like some pronated joint and that's that's what happened that'll do it right there especially going after grass by the way that'll that'll make a huge difference what sal's saying by shortening up so here's a crazy classic example of where advice changes per client right so we're always coaching people range of motion work under depth get deeper you have a case like that i know just by shortening your range up and not going all the way deep well yeah is way less risk and stress on your knees because of what you got going on and that's a classic example that so what his advice yeah with the box squats it'll completely take it out what it would look like michael because you would do the box squats it's a shorter range of motion the box stops the momentum but you're like hey i want to train a really good full range of motion well you can challenge it with lunges yeah uh lunges take that component out and you can do that full range of motion still get everything working you know the way you want it uh but i think you're gonna love i think once you start box squatting you're like this time i'm gonna squat great okay i'll give it a try and like i i just want to thank you guys again you're my uh my virtual gym bros in my ear well you're kicking ass dude yeah you're doing great yeah you're kicking ass i usually i head for the gym at about quarter till five in the morning and put you guys on and hear your latest podcast on the way there so see the old jack guys are always working out in the morning that's when i go hey we appreciate the support man you're doing great absolutely a big shout out to doug and all the other guys behind the scenes thank you appreciate it man thank you take care you got it record yeah so for people listening when you're when your ankles uh lack mobility what happens when you squat is your feet want to twist your feet want to twist to create make up that somehow but your your tennis shoes are grounded on the floor so as you're squatting there's this twisting torsion and and and it's the meniscus that takes well you also have this right so you have this uh naturally people naturally your knees want to start to drop in right when the knees drop in the the femur internally rotates too like that so that's just all that contortion on the on the on the knee even more so so i yeah and boy especially after he said he goes ass to grass yeah so ass to grass that issue going on like for sure that's what's going on so box squat so classic example where you know our our advice could contradict it you'll hear us talking about doing that but it's like that's a classic example where you take you know what's wild about what we're saying by the way is if you see olympic lifters they get that knee coming in looking twisting and they do phenomenally well you're dealing with incredible hip strength mobility and ankle mobility yeah and so it looks it looks worse than it looks gnarly well yeah that's like uh that's like comparing you ever watched what a pitcher's shoulder looks like that would rip it off you know that's a classic example where you're like oh my god that's a classic example where you're like oh my god that's a classic example where you're like oh my god all the rest of our shoulders out of the socket good point yeah i've seen like where they take a freeze frame oh yeah it's all like oh my god bro contorted throwing a ball 100 miles an hour yeah everybody else's arm would come out of their socket doing that but yeah no it's great great to see though i was trying to do the math real quick well if we round it up to 200 right 200 pounds at 25 body fat is uh that means you got 25 pounds of fat is that oh no no 50 pounds of fat 50 pounds of fat he cut down 10 percent of that yeah so he went down so yeah it's like 15 what is that 15 pounds of muscle yeah wow and he went up five pounds on the scale though so he went up on the scale wow that's yeah so he put like 15 20 pounds of muscle on dude that's great he had he's got 170 pounds of lean body mass now before what was his body 150 25 let me figure this out so it was 45 minus one uh minus 198 yeah 195 what is it yeah 146 bro he gained 25 pounds 25 i said i knew it bro i'm like i'm doing the mat work i'm like that's a good 20 pounds or so of muscle right there dude that's badass life-changing yeah our next caller is ryan from indiana hey what's up man so ryan hey what's going on guys how you doing much no i'm doing well doing well thanks for uh thanks for taking my call how can we help you yeah no so i wrote in a little while ago and i actually i love how i wrote it so i'll paraphrase it but back long backstory um about six six 250 currently as of this morning uh former college basketball player i'm a basketball player i'm a basketball player i'm a basketball player i'm a basketball player i'm a basketball player i'm a basketball player i was always kind of a hard gainer actually hated the weight room for the longest time and luckily i was could run and jump a little bit um but over time you know uh crept up and you know now getting you know middle ages 30 about 37 years old now and uh got five kids so busy guy and you know really focusing on strength and really fall in love with just training and getting stronger and all things so all that being said um really focused probably facing a little bit of what you know i hear you guys talk about a lot of insulin resistance got some cholesterol numbers creeping up some blood sugar numbers creeping up i know you guys aren't medical professionals so not looking for medical advice but looking for the best way of your from your experience to really target that right everything's like oh you lose five to ten percent of your body weight and you know that can improve cholesterol that can improve improve insulin resistance etc but also don't want to just do that aggressively in a non-sustainable way so really looking for what you guys think about uh from your experience at you know how to go about that you know maintaining a lot of the muscle that i've been able to build uh but really the best way to kind of get after that um from a training perspective give us a little bit of uh i mean five kids what's sleep look like what's diet look like currently right now what is uh your workouts and and daily activity look like like what's yeah give me give me more about yeah yeah what we're working okay yeah so uh i mean sleep is uh the youngest one right now is about five years old so i'm going to give you a little bit of a about 18 months old but we have a sixth one on the way in october so sleep's going to be building the football team over there what are you doing basketball team you already got a start you already got five basketball exactly exactly so yeah so sleep's going to be at a premium here in about uh 10 or 12 weeks but uh right now it's it's it's pretty good um diet wise been you know trying to dial that in really try to get hit protein heavy i don't do a thing i try to aim or at least understand you know the protein i get towards i mean even trying to get 230 240 grams of protein is it's a lot you know i mean that's a lot in a day so trying to really uh do that in a whole natural way uh trying to recently you know with some of the cholesterol stuff focusing on some of the leaner cuts and whatnot you know trying to you know get after some of that um activity wise i would say i'm close to 8 000 steps i'm in it i'm in a health care executive role so it's an office job but we have a pretty big building that i roam around but i just use my phone to track and at the end of the day it's you know 8 000 so uh with the kids in practices right now i have a chance to just wander around when they're out the football field and whatnot so that helps like last night i had like 13 000 steps because i just long hauled it while they're in practice so i have some opportunities to build some of those things in um but yeah so and then training wise uh i would say i've done i've dabbled with a lot of the programs i think i the one i got through most recently was anabolic and i would say i made pretty great strength uh improvements despite some of the other habits diet wasn't great i wasn't really totally dialed in sleep was average you know i've recently tried to cut back on some of the uh what i call celebrating life some of the cocktails and whatnot while you know so cutting back on some of the fun stuff there but um so i thought i made made strides despite some of those things within it i started power lift and then went on vacation and had like a complete week off and i was like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this and once i got back i've just kind of um dabbled with more of like i would what i would think is like maps 15 type style a couple lifts a day you know 25 to 30 minutes get some steps on the treadmill sauna and get out uh kind of started to like that because i do like going every day it's a morning thing morning kind of ritual for me i like that i like that for you just so you know i would i would have pushed you in that direction anyway so you're gonna live in you're gonna live in maps 15 for a long time yeah yeah that's your program until you slow down all the different versions yeah i mean until you shut the factory down right it's gonna give you the best results yeah yeah yeah massive team protocol is gonna build you the most muscle and strength it'll trip you out and we have a lot of maps 15 programs uh do you have any of them because i'd like to send you one i have the original one um i have that one i i just like most people i call in i played with it for a while and i was like oh this isn't enough right i didn't put enough volume i wanted to be in there longer but as i've uh you know really going in and you know not going in and being like beat up from the day before and just being able to go in and you know push it but not um i really have started to really enjoy that the other one that i i bought and i've been really intrigued about but of course and uh you know i would say i'm not scared of it but it's a is symmetry so i didn't know if like you know because i've done a lot of i like i like lifting heavy um like that's why i like when i go in and i just try to you know put weight on it and push it and so like lower reps i've done a lot of lifting heavy um like that's why i like when i ended it like and that's why i think i would try to go power lift but then it's also like i hear you guys talk about the symmetry the performance side of things and so i didn't know um well do you have any something like that would work do you have any aches or pains um well right now my right elbow is a little messed up from like some golfing elbow type things but other than that not really all right because i could like i think all the mass 15 programs are perfect for you if you like lifting heavy i like mass 15 power lift i know powerless would be okay yeah i could send that to you but you're going to live in the maps 15 protocol for a long time and you're going to and again i'm going to say this because i think sometimes people think it's like okay well i got to do mass 15 i'm not going to get as good results but that's It's because of my life. This is what will give you the best results right now. None of our programs will perform better for you than the Mass 15 protocol. You just got to be consistent. I also like this for you, like that protocol. And then literally like just from what you've told me already, all I want you to do is to be consistent on the protein thing and then literally just kind of pull back on the drinking like you said. So whatever it was that you were kind of letting yourself celebrate for, make that be even more infrequent. So I don't know what that looks like in your lifestyle. I was just going to ask, Ryan, when you did your labs and your lipids came back and the blood sugar came back, was that before you made all the dietary changes? I've been more aggressive about it. It was about three and a half weeks ago now that I did the labs. And so that was when I started to really dial in at that point. I had labs done in May and they were similar and I didn't really give it much. You mind if I dig a little deeper because there's probably some big changes. There's some areas that will make the biggest impacts. You don't have to make like a million and one changes. When you were drinking, how often was it? Just like a nightly, every night you'd have a drink or two? Yeah. Yeah. Some of that. And then weekends, you know, maybe a few more than a few. Okay. So the alcohol, taking alcohol out will make a huge difference in your blood sugar and insulin. It'll make a huge difference. So if you can cut that out or dramatically reduce it, maybe save it for once a week, but also don't turn that into like I'm going to get hammered. Sometimes that happens. Like we don't drink all week and they were like, I'm going to go six drinks now. So the alcohol makes a big difference. And then before you started making these dietary changes, were you eating like eating like, like out and fast food and processed food or what was it? No, no, actually I've been eating pretty well. I would say for the most part, I mean, we, we do a lot of whole natural foods. I mean, with the kids got to, you know, you mix a lot of, you know, they like the pastas and some of the other stuff. And I try to stay, you know, whole natural food myself. If I eat out, like it's like a Chipotle bowl, you know, double meat and all this stuff. Yeah. But for the most part, it's pretty good. I mean, I think there's probably some changes, but you know, with the, I think the other thing I noticed was, you know, if I did, you know, if I was cooking, had a few drinks, like I would eat above and beyond probably what was necessary and, you know, push it, push it in that regard. I do a lot of, you know, Greek yogurts, you know, that's how I kind of end my night, you know, Greek yogurt and some berries, those types of things. But yeah, so for the most part, not bad, but definitely can get tightened up. Honestly, the, the, the focusing on the alcohol and hitting the protein, consistent, that's it. I wouldn't even want natural foods. I would not overcomplicate the, the diet yet. Like that. Wait and see what that does. That with the paired with 15 power. And then if you want to add supplements, a high EPA fish oil can have some, sometimes have some positive effects on, on some of your numbers. And then what company is it, Doug, that you're, you're using for cholesterol? Why, why is it dose? Is it dose dose? Yeah. Yeah. You could try dose dose has some clinical trials that shows that it actually helps with lipids and you combine that with the reduction in alcohol, the whole natural foods, hit your protein mass 15, three, four months from now, I bet you'll come back. You'll see some big changes. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. That's, that's great to hear. Yeah. I like the idea of the power lift. Cause I started, like I said, I started on that pathway with this, the regular program, the regular power lift program. But this 15 style, I'm starting to really embrace and like, I'm glad you like you're starting to embrace and like it. Cause I wanted to push you there right away. But after you told me the kids lifestyle things, it's the perfect program. I'd love to hear your numbers after it. Yeah, you're going to see great results stick with it. And then let me ask you a question, right? If that's all right. Yeah. How do you manage so many kids and all that stuff? What's the secret? Great. Wife. Yeah, that's it. A hundred percent. Yeah, no, it's a, it's busy. We're, we're, we're loving it where it's busy as can be. We're just, the oldest is only nine too. That's the crazy part. So we got five that are nine and under about to be six that are nine and under. Um, that's gotta be such a fulfilling life, but also so busy. We are busy, but man, is it fun? And we homeschool them. So, you know, we're glutton for punishment there too. Wow. You guys are doing a great job for you, bro. How many boys and girls? What do you got? Uh, we got two boys and going on four girls. So we were boy, girl, boy, girl. And then the last two girls decided to break that chain. And so we're having, like I said, we're having a lot of fun with it. And, but you are, you're right where you are. We are busy, but they're getting the oldest is getting the football right now, which is awesome. Basketball, all the things. So we're, we're staying busy in that regard. God bless you, man. So cool. Very good. We'll send you a 15 power lift. All right. All right, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. All right. Take care. You know, uh, when I hear people with so many kids, first off, when you have, you know, good husband and wife working together, like it's still busy, it's still difficult, but, uh, it's, it just sounds so fulfilling. You just got so much stuff going on team house full of kids all the time. And I just envisioned this man. At some point being a grandfather, he's gonna be surrounded by so many. So do I. I mean, I think about that all the time of like you, when you have that many kids like that, one or two of them is bound to love you. You might strike out on a couple, but you definitely get a couple of them. They're going to really like you. You know what I'm saying? Come back and hang out with you when you're old. But I got to say this too, for people listening, like, uh, for some, it's not like this for everybody, but definitely for, for significant percentage of people, daily alcohol. Consumption, even if it's just a couple drinks, uh, it can have some pretty deleterious effects, uh, that you'll measure on blood lipids and blood sugar. And you just get rid of that. I've had clients, and by the way, it's not easy to do, cuz, uh, you know, people get attached to it, but I've had clients get rid of that and it fixed everything. Well, I'll add this to, and you're also talking extra 400, 500 calories. So they just say it's odd this to that too, because I've, I've been enjoying that more in my life than I ever did. And one of the biggest challenges for being a. Over six foot dude who needs to hit protein, hard to hit my protein intake and have a couple glasses in the night. That's why it has to be so infrequent for me. It's like, if I allow that those calories end up going to, to, to empty calories and I miss my protein intake, the combination of that just screws up my training. So it's like, that's what keeps me from having that drink here or there, even though it's not that bad for you. It's just that tough to do both of those. Look, if you like mind pump, come find us on Instagram. It's mind pump media. Thank you for listening to mind pump. The goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super bundle at mind pump media.com. The RGB super bundle includes maps, anabolic mass performance, and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over. 200 videos. The RGB super bundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price, the RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee, and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. We'll see you next time. And until next time, this is mind bump.