The Epidemic of "Performative Men" (ft Amelia Moore)

Do we have an epidemic of loneliness, or do we have an epidemic of undatable men? Talks at relationships in cell culture, horrible dating apps, and yeah, we joke that the bar isn't hell, and oh, but I can fix him. But beneath all that means in jokes, there is a real exhaustion. Because modern dating feels like trying to build a relationship inside of a burning delving. We're told dating apps will fix it, that if we just keep swiping, we'll find someone, but instead of bringing us closer, they've turned people into profiles, simple commodities, creating this illusion of intimacy, dehumanizing the experience altogether. But don't worry, for $7.99, you can download Tinder Premium, and all your problems will go away, right? Your loneliness has become a product. They have to manufacture this problem, so then, oh, they just happen to sell a solution. Which leaves us with a generation that is more connected than ever, but feels more isolated than ever before. We end up with a culture of undatable men, and a generation of people trying to make love work in a system that was never built for real connections in the first place. And our guest today is no stranger to heartbreak. You may know Emilia Moore from songs like Next Door, and see through, but her most recent project, he's still just not that into you, goes so much deeper into all of those feelings of heartbreak. Welcome back to Nikki and I, I'm your host Nikki Verden, and Emilia, I could not be more excited to welcome you to the show. Wait, that was cute. You said Emilia, I couldn't be more excited. That was even intentional. Did you do that? No, actually that was scripted. Yeah, I did do that. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Thank you so much, but I'm so happy to have you here, dude. Me too. I didn't obsess into your music for a long time, and especially, like I love this most recent project, and I think it ties so well into these themes, and it's like such an interesting thing, like I love when people sing and write songs about like the nuance of dating, especially, or like the mess of it all. The mess of it all. Yeah, like 99% of relationships we in, we're in we break up. You know what I mean? And it's not like 99% of movies end with that. They're like love and woo-hoo-hoo. So I really love that you've like explored this nuance. Thank you. I mean, the movie, he's just not that into you, was a really, really big inspiration for me because it's all of these women experiencing different relationships. Super, super unique experiences from each other, but in the movie, they're like all figuring it out together. And I thought what a perfect place to put all of my super chaotic experiences and stories underneath because we're all there are a lot of them to talk about. And I have some too, we can get into it. We can get into it. We can get into it. But there is something you had said that I really loved, like specifically talking about that opening scene of the movie. Yeah. And how that like inspired the project. Yeah, 100%. So if you haven't seen the movie before, 1000% recommend one of my favorite rom-coms, ever. But basically at the beginning of the movie, Jennifer Goodwin's character is like narrating this time when she was a little girl and how she was like playing on the playground with all of her little friends. And she's with this boy who shoves her down to the ground or something, does something so mean and horrible. And obviously little girl crying so upset, just got pushed down to the ground. And she runs up to her mom and she's like, this boy just pushed me down. What do I do? What do I do? She's sobbing crying. And the mom is just like, sweetie, don't worry. That just means that he likes you. That is so bucked up. And that is like the opening scene of the movie. And then you flash forward to like all of these women in their adult lives who are convinced that because we were told that growing up, if a man is playing hard to get, you're looking for signs. You're looking for signs because if he's not obsessed with you, we still find a way to like think that he is. Yeah, or like to write that narrative in our mind. That's so crazy. It's so interesting. And honestly, like something that I really like thought about without scene two is like one exactly what you're describing. Like it develops this like obsession with the chase. I think you know what I mean? Like it sets the bar that that's like a normal thing, which is so so bizarre. And also like something low-key that I was really thinking about is it's like also sets the tone that this like meanness is kind of accompanied by violence, right? Like it's not just like the boy is like being mean. He's like pushing you down the slide, right? He's like taking your little snack or whatever. Yeah. And like that so sets the tone of like, boys will be boys. Like that's just how it is. And it's like, is it though? Like is it though? Should we allow kindergarteners to behave that way? Like I don't think so. Not at all. It's so weird. Not at all. And like I was really like thinking like I had really I rewatched that scene when I saw you talking about it. Yeah. Like I was like reflecting on it. It's like wow, like this is so. It starts there. It starts there. It starts there. It literally starts when we're kids. Yeah. And like the normalization of it I think is so so weird. And also something that I think is like a very big issue for this like like epidemic of loneliness. Like people always talk about is like the way that like I think men versus women like respond in these situations. Right. Like the male default is like aggression. It's like some sort of like angry response. Yeah. Whereas I feel like the female responses to like retreat. Like I'm like not like don't talk to me blah blah blah. Yeah. And what's interesting is I think it's like weirdly contributed to cycles into each other. Right. So it's like for every time a man like lashes out in that way. The woman retreats because it's like oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Therefore the man gets more angry. Yeah. Therefore the woman gives more men less chances. And like you know what I mean? Like I don't know. Like it's just something I was thinking about. Like yeah. It's like a chicken versus the egg like scenario too. Yeah. Of like why? And also it's like the one one of the things I'm like well like women should have to change the way they behave because I meant like that's ridiculous. Right. But it was just like when I was thinking about it's like an interesting. I think also with you you're talking about like dating apps and just how everybody's online more and like there are so many more signs to read into because we're on our phones. Yeah. If if someone is not texting you back but posting on their story like what does that mean? We're thinking about that. If he if you've like been on a couple days with him but you still see him pop up on one of the apps or whatever you're like well what's going on here? Yeah. I see still on this app. Or do you know what I mean? It's like now because we're on our phones and have access to everybody there are like thousands of more signs that we're like writing into. It's it's interesting. It's like we communicate more than ever before but like communicate less directly than ever before. Yeah. So there's this assumption that we have to like assume that whatever those things are our communications to us. Right. When it's like no that's just like the beer he's drinking. It's just that. Like it's not a sign like. Yeah. And like there's two of them and it's like somebody's making some of the table. It's not a day like. Right. But it is yeah. It is like that obsession or like that like thinking over it so much. And then how that like also I think like makes it like the bar for men is so much lower than the bar for women. 1000% like 1000 and all standards like even like you're so easy right. You're like damn didn't even know the bar was set so low. Last one had me begging for the bare minimum. Right. And I think also that is like talking about like weird cycles of dating. It's like if the bar is here like all somebody has to do this. Or when you actually do the bare minimum it seems like it's the best craziest thing in the world. I think this all the time about like skincare routines. Like when a girl's like he even has a skincare routine. We're like mama. I'm like and like imagine if a woman didn't have a skincare routine. Right. Like it's like not like skincare routine. Make up every day. Doing hair. Doing nails. Right. Like it's like the bar is like astronomically in different places. And you got to check. Okay. Okay. What do you mean? And like how much do you think guys? And also like so what like you've just done all this money on all these other things. Like the life of a woman is more expensive than the life of a man. Yeah. Which is another thing people don't talk about when they talk about like dating and stuff. Right. Like no literally I think about this all the time. Yeah. Like I'll be like getting ready with my girls before going out and it's I'm done in 15 minutes. Yeah, because it's the it's the routine. It's the base routine. Right. I shower. I do my hair. I put on a cute fit in like some jewelry and even putting on jewelry is like a lot for me. No, but even even talking about the bare minimum. I think about this all the time in like style and fashion and clothing. Like men can literally pull up in a white T-shirt and some jeans and like everyone's freaking out. Yes. And the hotter they are the more they get away with it. Like if you're spraying like a white tank top and jeans, but like you have arms and tattoos. I'm lost in there. I'm locked in. Yeah. I'm there. This is a fashion icon. I will complain. Yeah, for sure. But in in that song specifically in easy. I didn't know the bar was set so low. The lyric actually originally instead of last one had me begging for the bare minimum. I was actually saying his name and I had to change it. I've always wondered about stuff like this too. When you're writing like a project, do you ever like do you feel like it's it's generally about like one person or do you are you like? This is just like my experience with that. Like this is my experience with dating. Teaching a robot to love was fully all about one person. Really? 100% that was scary. That was on some begging for the bare minimum behavior embarrassing. heartbreak embarrassment, but that's like I mean we all I let me tell you grow I've done some in terrible embarrassing things for man, but also like that's Part of it like one of my favorite lines literally that you've ever written is whoever said it's better to love and lose someone has never lost Themself and that is so real the way we sacrifice these pieces of ourselves to try and hold on to this to delay some inevitable conclusion right like you know he's like he's be on a mattress on the floor You know what I mean like you know it's not gonna work you know like also your young blah blah blah right and like but we are obsessed like we have this addiction to connection I think and also like I think a lot of people are more afraid of uncertainty than they are of certain misery Well like they would rather sit in a certain y'all hear how They would rather sit in like that certainty of misery like yeah, this isn't the person But like I know what to expect then to like be alone move forward. Yeah, move forward damn girl I that is so true. I feel like we all have that best friend who is dating somebody that they shouldn't be dating Oh, yeah, and you have talked to them about it so many times, but I mean even with me girl in that situation I was in that inspired all of teaching robot to love Every single person in my friend group was like you got it back You have got to pack it up and no matter how many times they would tell me I had to fuck it up Continuously over and over and over again until I physically emotionally could not take it anymore. Yeah, and It'd be like that sometimes. What was that breaking point? I don't know girl there there were just so many like I Would fly to Nashville to see my friends Singular man, we would be like boyfriend and girlfriend for a week. I would come back here and And my head I'm not messing around with anybody else. This is my man, right? He is doing whatever he wants no regard for me whatsoever. Yeah, but then he'll come to LA stay with me again Be my boyfriend for whatever leave as soon as he leaves He's like ghosting me for two weeks and I was just like that happened enough times for me to be like It's time send a pack it up. I'm embarrassed. It's time and I had to pack it up and we packed it up. Thank God and Actually, this is really fierce the last time We spoke was on the phone. Okay, this part isn't really fierce, but we were talking on the phone I'm a mess. I'm historically sobbing crying and I'm like I can't even hang up the phone You're the one who I think up so scary. That's such a scary thing for me to have to go through, but a month later He sends me a screenshot of an email from his boss and his boss was like Yo, um, you've got to check out this girl Amelia more her music is crazy That is everything and I didn't reply to the screenshot And that was the last time that we could ever send me anything. Oh, I would literally print that out And frame it on my wall. I would kiss it before walking out the door every day. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy That's crazy. I have Not experienced this level of moment, but I have a revenge fantasy. I'm plotting. Okay. I love My thank you. I I've only had one boyfriend the same move here, but he cheated on me first time I ever got cheated on not a fan of him not a fan of that and He also you want to talk about embarrassing moments girl He cheated on me for the first time we have this whole thing blah blah. Also a moment of vulnerability He cheated on me gave me gonorrhea and the gonorrhea is how I found out Right like a little gift to come along with with the infidelity, you know I would like to make it clear for the people the internet the gonorrhea has been taken care of it's gone But we I we came back. We had to hold on conversation cry cry cry flowers out the door Taking me to dinner, right? This goes on for like a month or two Month or so is like I'm not like gonna take him back when I'm like entertaining it right and then finally I think like a week or two like I'm like okay, like Like let's try again blah blah blah and then he broke up with me a week or two after that I was like you little bitch you stole my opportunity to shit on you so the revenge This is where the revenge fantasy. Sorry. That's that's my villain origin story, right? Okay, that that's where I became Yeah, yeah, yeah, now my revenge fantasy is that called a hobby doesn't want to show I he's a photographer Okay, so my dream is that like I go somewhere for work or something and he like has to photograph me Do you get what I'm saying like he's working it? Yes, I like some sort of like carpet situation or whatever I love it. And I'm just like mean like so I'll never be mean But also looking so good so good maybe with a plus one who's hotter. Yeah I really love this fantasy for you. Thank you. I think we're I we're manifesting. I'm trying to speak it into an existence We're speaking it. It's in the air. Yeah, it's happening. We're gonna plot it. That's good But also like something I was randomly thinking about too with like Relationships stuff one the average woman is ten times hotter than the average man like as we're talking about right? Like just all the time the way love islands. Perfect example. Those girls stunning Beautiful and maculate the men are the most cookie cutter. It's crazy. It's simple looking You go anywhere in LA like you pull up to Ten-ends girl. I'm looking around. I'm looking at the women in the room compared to the men in the room stunning What's going on? I don't know and also like I saw this one code that I was obsessed with it was like you can't you cannot attract something that you won't give back You are only capable of attracting something you are capable of giving to other people Oh, and when people like complain about like not getting the girl or whatever I'm like, well, what did you offer her? Are you giving getting the girl? Yeah, like she's literally so much hotter than you Right with peace and love. You know what I mean with peace and love. Yeah, also like I think a big issue too is like Mendoam on girlfriends. They want a mother I Mean Like I feel like I should be writing down everything My next project right now like I know literally this is also like my friends trauma dumping me from the research and stuff So I was calling them up Yeah, isn't there's a saying about like men marry the girl they're with when they're ready to settle down or something Yes, I've seen this it's not the one that they're in love with and I think this is really true It's like this idea that Like the way women date is like a ramp, right? It's like I'm in a lucky so much at the beginning But I'll like like you more and more and we'll just like keep going right like it's a ramp whereas like men is like Like I'm not even gonna think about marrying you until like I made this mental decision that like I'm ready for marriage Like I'm gonna think about dating you until I made decision like I want a girlfriend You know what I mean like they have to randomly have this like a piphony. I say in her quotes like discovering him for the first time But like you know what I mean like it's like a conscious decision, but also I don't know as a gay man I don't I feel like I'm I lean more of the female thing like I'm kind of always like Raising you know, I mean like I'm like okay like we'll entertain a suitor even if I'm not trying to think of any I don't know I feel like These men out here girl. Yeah More they'll just lie to you and be like yeah, I'm ready for a relationship and then not too Man lie a lot honestly everybody lies a lot, but also like randomly. I was thinking about like societal issues as to why I think like maybe this is such a problem and there were two random ones I came up with one I think it's like very interesting. I don't know what your experience with this is is like Gen Z's kind of like the first generation where it's like Normal to grow up with divorce parents. Whoa. Yeah, like this idea of like love not being a permanent thing is like very baked into that and like I had like messy divorce parents and My parents are divorced too, right? And it like it makes you terrified because also you realize how much of like a Life altering thing that can be so life altering mine actually Didn't get divorced until like two or three years ago. Wow I've like been an adult through there. I think that's hard and have my own. It's crazy because Growing up low-key. I kind of I kind of saw the sign Was I shocked whenever they told me that it was happening not for real. Yeah, but it is crazy like Going home every time I go home. I'm like damn it. I'm at my mom's house now Yeah, I have to plan time to go see my dad right somewhere else. Yeah, it's a crazy thing But to to your point like they were together for almost 25 years and Now they're just not they're just yeah, and like that's a thing that happens I have like a much different experience with like my parents got divorced when I was like in kindergarten or so I don't really remember them being together much like my default is This the two homes in the blah blah blah, but my brother my brothers two is older and he like really remembers it all Yeah, there's also like a very interesting thing in like the way that we process it. Yeah differently But it's like for sure has made me more Reserved with like this idea of permanence or even I have like friends where they're just like moved in with their boyfriends and stuff So early and I'm like I have seen the way that that unfolds like when they have to move out and like I like it will never happen yeah yeah yeah and I think that's like a very interesting thing and then also like another one I was really thinking about too like specifically when you think about like the male versus female experience in the way that they like form relationships like female friendships are so much deeper than male friendships they have I talk about this all the time I talk about this all the time it's like to me real emotional intimacy and like depth and like if something bad happens to me I'm like getting on FaceTime and calling one of my girls and we're crying and we're watching he's still about that into you like you don't know what I mean like yeah that is what the female experience is and the male experience is like let's play Fortnite let's go to the gym there's this tick talk that I like always reference when my friends and I start talking about this it's literally this this get of like two boys catching up or whatever yeah over coffee and one of them is like yeah man like how are you doing and the other ones like yeah bro like I'm good just found out that me and my wife are pregnant and he's like bro that's so sick I was at the store the other day and saw like they just pick up on the next day yeah and then the other one replies and it's like yeah I'm actually not really going home for Christmas because like my parents are whatever right now and they're like yeah I'm sorry bro they have that's crazy they don't like they don't they don't be like having the depth no that's like the girl is scary yeah I know actually scared like I genuinely like how do you like survive like I can't imagine not leaning on the people oh my god I to my close girlfriends like I wouldn't have I wouldn't have gotten through I've been living in LA and LA for five and a half years now and if I wasn't able to depend on my friends through the you know highs and lows of what this career brings like oh my god I don't know where I would be right totally and also like what moving to LA brings yeah where you from originally Georgia George I'm from Virginia yeah you go to Disney bro of a lot of the kid um I remember going like once with my family and then for like student choir trip oh we were there like tracking out tracks and shit at Disney yeah I feel like weirdly a lot of people get into music through church it's like very common yeah totally it's very common either church or theater and I was both hilariously but yeah you were the double threat right the double threat the church of theater girl yeah no it's so so interesting um but that is why like also I think this lack of intimacy and male friendships is why they like feel the need to like have a woman in this way is because like they don't get that or are there at least maybe flip it on its head why women don't feel the same necessity for a man do you get what I'm saying yeah yeah yeah because like that need is fulfilled elsewhere or like the first woman a man will like barely open up to he's like what is this feeling I've never opened up to anyone before and girls are like this is shit that we talked about all time there to a Tuesday FaceTime yeah on a Tuesday FaceTime we're like at sleepovers when we were how old like in middle school right we were figuring this out yeah and that's like what so I think interesting about these like concepts of like masculinity and like patriarchy I guess of like they have built their own prison mm-hmm you know what I mean like they complain about this loneliness epidemic of man and it's like well you're like because you're not talking to your friends about like you're playing Fortnite yeah you're playing Fortnite you know what I mean like yeah like open up or or find a way to like deal yeah in whatever way that is for you there are people you know like yeah there's a million different ways but I think it's like an interesting thing when people like look at some sort of thing of the world and have to like blame one specific group of people you know what I mean yeah and yeah I hate like I just hate that rhetoric I also just like like improve yourself figure out do you know what I mean yeah we can't fix it for you no and or like you doing our own yeah again like what are you offering what are you offering right like that's another thing too like it this supposed to be like a partnership you know so it's like what do you bring I know what I'm bringing oh I know what I'm bringing baby so what's isn't it for me what's happening over there um not much and that's truly the issue like that's truly truly the issue I have like recently like had this epiphany of like I need to start dating people that are like either older than me or just like have it together because this is the thing about men and their age is a man can say that he's 27 but really and truly he's 23 years old yeah mentally 19 mentally night I think any man until they're literally like 35 is mentally 19 yeah you know and it's so hard too like also I think like because I'm just like not the type of person who will ever like slow down for the sake of somebody else mm-hmm and I feel like that's also like been a big problem with it for me but what about you like what is your how was met how's dating in the Los Angeles been for you I haven't even really I don't even know when I first moved here um I moved here in like January of 2020 okay in three weeks after I moved here literally COVID shut everything down whoa that was like a really great time in yeah yeah put in our best forward the best time yeah literally um so I wasn't really like meeting that many new people I was kind of just I knew the people that I knew whenever I first moved here um thank god I like I had friends out here you know while the whole entire world was shut down because that would have been I probably would have moved home if I didn't but um I like was dating somebody for almost three years and um now I'm like I don't even care to know what dating in LA is like for real I think beautiful I like don't I've seen the horror stories I've heard I've heard of the experiences and honestly a lot of my homies right now are like in long-term relationships or good for them everyone in my life right now is either like about to get married well in the long like in the long-term relationship like I'm dating this person for six or eight years yeah or breaking up no that's crazy no in between right now and I totally think that I feel the exact same way my two best friends um they're both gay together they literally I'm telling them they need to sell their rights like their story as like movie rights really it is literally like they met on Twitter before either of them moved here decided both in the closet decided to like move here together with like two other people so there's like four people in this apartment two bedroom apartment they're sharing a bedroom beds like literally three feet apart now they're one of them knows that the other one's like secretly gay until they eventually like come out for each other they're the first kiss for each other first uh oh my god special experiences that everything's first for each other live together like before they even started dating before they even out and just the rest of history they've been together for eight years now this is like a Netflix no I literally and I tell them all the time I said you walkers do you understand how bad the streets are we are and you'll never know scraping the bottom of the barrel with our finger like getting blood under the fingernails scraping the barrels so agree just like on Twitter that's the beautiful thing you know like where are you going to find it maybe at the bottom of the barrel maybe Twitter apparently maybe on gay Twitter maybe at the bottom of the barrel maybe Twitter is the bottom of the barrel in line for community goods I would love that I would love that I've always said like mine is so damn long oh my god it's literally like you could I mean five to seven business days you could fall in love yeah with the how long the line our community goods is you could fall in love with your yeah it's like Stockholm syndrome yeah you would fall in love with your chapter like because you're just both stuck there right for so long for so long what was I gonna say you were talking about your your BFFs that are in love yeah fuck on I'm saying tired of it yeah I'm saying tired of it because they just they just found it yeah I know you know what I mean but don't don't rub it in my face right how dare you be happy just vote just vote I'm recording that take talks so much recently wait what say talk just vote I don't even know you're kidding yes you do you definitely know it's that Nina from that like oh my god I'm gonna embarrass myself if you know I love it and my more online than you no that is not possible babe it's it's this girl who's on one of these like youtube series things god I'm forgetting what they're called but she's like just vote just vote I already know I'm gonna be out so just vote you don't know I'll show it to you now the last time I like really like absolutely cried laughing was like from a take talk was like the moon be my scream like I'm sorry some of the they were really good they were really good so well some people ate and I got a got you got to give credit where it's due I never tried the cookie the cookie oh the uh the Benson Boon I think I'm like I'm not that into crumble cookies yeah they're so like too much happening I have a theory about people who like crumble cookie and are obsessed with crumble cookie are the same people who hate the taste of water what think about it think about it think about one who hates the taste of water so many the same people that love crumble cookies like if they hate the taste of water they're putting some type of sugar in their water like no I have to be drinking lemonade you have such a sweet to it I get what you mean people are like I don't want water like I want lemonade or a diet coke or like yeah or like I have to I have to put something in my water Europe that's what crumble cookies you can't drink water by itself. - No. - I can rest my case. - And I think you need to. - You need to. - I mean, you need to. - You look a little dehydrated. So, like, get it together. - Yes, yeah, yeah. - Okay, also I wanna talk about dating apps, because I have some interesting experiences of dating apps. - Tell me all of that. - But also, like, this is something I was really getting to my friend with the other day on the phone. We were talking about this, like, how different, I think like the male versus female experiences on dating apps. This is one of the rare instances when, not rare. This is one of the instances where I love, like, being a gay man, because I feel like I get, like, good sides of both. Like, I'm like, okay, like, like, I understand the role of, like, having to be the pursuer. - Yeah. - But also, like, have been pursued. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Two things. One, I think a fundamental misunderstanding from men is that women are constantly in fear of their own safety. And men, like, do not, that does not equate in their minds. - They won't get it. - Because it's never a thing. - They won't get it. - It's literally never a thing. And, like, I, honestly, I relate. Like, when I go on dates, like, I don't feel concerned for my safety. - Yeah. - I'm worried about, like, is it gonna be bad night or whatever, but, like, there isn't that existential fear or, or I've had friends. - I'm sharing my location with my friends. - Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I've even had friends. And, like, oh, I liked him, but then, like, I don't know, he asked me to invite me back to his apartment. Like, I got weird vibes and left. - Yeah. - And, like, that is, like, literally never happening to me. - Yeah. I'm like, sure, let's go. - Yeah, yeah. And, like, that is, like, I think, a really, like, thing that, like, the male experience has not been able to, like, empathize because it's literally not a factor. Like, it's not part of the equation. - At all. - And then, something I was really thinking about with, like, what I think women don't get about the male experience is how this, like, I want you to, like, imagine, like, you open a dating app, right? Close your eyes. The male experience is, like, you go, you swipe, you send out a bunch of likes. You get a fraction of those back as matches. Then, out of all those matches, you send a bunch of DMs. You get a fraction of those back as responses. Then, you have to, like, initiate the conversation and maintain the conversation. - Right. - Then, you have to plan the date, right? Then, some of those cancel because, like, it's a dating app. Nobody takes it seriously, but blah, blah, blah. Right? Then, maybe you go on a few dates. Keep in mind, you're paying, like, $50 to $100 per date on all of these things. And then, you have that, like, same experience of frustration of, like, oh, I just don't like this person. And, like, something I think is so, like, or as the female experience is, like, you open the app and, like, it's just attention. It might not be attention that you like, but there is not this, like, state of constant rejection. And I think that's, like, something interesting about the male experience and, like, why they get, why anger is, like, the default reaction for a lot of men, because it's, like, they're not really angry at you. They're angry at, like, this happens 24 other times before this. - Yeah. - Do you give what I'm saying? And that is, like, I think a really interesting thing and just, like, the dynamics of, I guess, like, pursuing or, like, being the pursuer. I don't really know. - I think the best part of being on a dating app is how much fun it is to make your profile. - Yeah. And it's, like, also sometimes, like, mini-game. - It's a mini-game. I love helping my friends set up their dating profiles. I've had fans at my show always be, like, I mean, like, can you record, like, this thing on my hinge profile or whatever, that's, like, vetting me as a fun time or whatever. And I love when people ask me to do that, by the way. I think it's the funniest thing ever. I, for a while, all of my best friends profile, it was me being, like, this man is the best. He's gonna do this. He's the best friend to me. He's, like, that, and it was just the, like, I don't know. I think building your profile is, like, the best part. I've never been on the apps for real. I think I had Raya whenever I first moved out here, which is awful. - We all know how we feel about Raya. - It's even worse. It's way worse. - 'Cause it's all the guys that, like, feel entitled and, like, yeah, I'm on Raya, so. - No, it's a DJ with 20,000 Instagram followers. - Right, right. - That's what it is. That is literally what Raya is. - Which is so scary. - So scary. - Or it's, like, a creative director. And you're, like, who are you? - Right, and, like, can you create a direct, like, a bed frame and, like, a box spring? Like, what is this mattress on the floor? You're 29. - Like, yeah, like, can you create a direct, like, some credit score, you know what I mean? Like, anything, like, like, again, what do you offer? What there's no offering? - That is funny, that is hilarious. - There is no, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, there's so focused on, I don't even, apparently, nothing. - Literally nothing. - Like, that's, like, what's so crazy about it? - Literally nothing. - Um, there's this a perfect segue for you to now rate my hands profile. - Oh my god, yeah. - I think so too. Like, this was not planned, but you were talking about it. I was like, yeah. - I think this is a great idea. - I think so too. - Let's see it. - I haven't checked it in a long time. - Oh. - So. - I'm already sensing some, you know, you're-- - No, no, no. I'm good. - You're feeling confident in it. - Me, sporadically checking before. I'm feeling confident. Upon further investigation, I feel confident. - I feel great. - I like to submit a review. Please, like, in the professional. - This first, we're starting off really strong. - Yeah, we're starting strong. - The pictures really cute. You guys are seeing what I'm seeing. This is really cute. My simple pleasure is farmers markets. Love, green flag, drifting, green flag, spontaneous beach trips, green flag, watching a video essay. - I love, like, YouTube video essays. I'll give you some rex. - What do you mean, like a YouTube video essay? Like, someone just reading. - No, it is like a style of YouTube video where it's like a, like, prolonged scripted argument. So like 30 minutes plus of like-- - People arguing? - No, like, it's like a presentation about thought process. - Oh, cute. - So it would be like, you know, like a video essay. Like, why Ariana Grande is the best pop star of all time? And somebody would be like 30 minutes of like, this is my thesis. These are my three pieces of supporting evidence. This is my conclusion at the end. - Another green flag. - I love it. - And scavenging facial marketplace. Where I'm gonna-- - Are we? - I'm starting to feel something. - Is this a date now? (laughs) - Like, wait, these are all, you're getting tens across the board so far. - Okay, but like, I was really, let me explain thought process too. Okay, because like in the beginning, I was really trying to set the tone that like, I like to go out. - Yeah. - But like, my dream idea of fun is not going out. - Right. - And that is in a very big problem with me. - It's not your entire personality. - Yes. - And some of these girls-- - Yes, it's all they want to do. - It's all they want to do. - They're like literally with peace and love. Like, doing ketamine, like 3 p.m. on a Thursday. And I'm like, I just like-- - Day on 3 p.m. on a Thursday. - Yeah, it's like very the most angelist. - I guess you're right. - People are crazy. - People are crazy. - So anyways, that's what I was trying to do. I was trying to set the vibe of like-- - This is good. - Okay, thank you. - This is good. You're like, I like to have fun. And look, this is a picture I'm assuming at a festival. - I can't remember. - You have a wristband on. - Yeah. I think it's outside Lance. - Really? - No, that's Coachella. - Oh, yeah. - But you are going, you're playing outside Lance. - I am playing outside Lance. - See, like, this is you went in front of the forum. I know the forum, that's the forum, right? - Yeah. - Okay. - They have to know I'm a music boy. - Right. So you're already, you're giving me, I like to have wholesome fun. But here are pictures of me having. - Good fun. - Not that wholesome. - Yeah. - Let's debate this topic. Best album of 2024. - What's your, do you have a favorite album of 2024? It's a tough one. It was like one of the best years of pop music we've had ever. - In a long time. - Yeah. - I'm going to say short and sweet. - That's a good one. It's great. I mean, I-- - I think I would say Billy. - Uh. - I mean, Hard and Soft. - Yeah. - It's like my favorite Billy album. - It's so tough. - It's just perfect. - Yeah. - Like, it's just perfect. - He's incredible. - She's nothing she can't do. - Yeah. - Like, I also, like, I said, I was just talking about this when my friends last night. Like, I think Billy's going to be the biggest artist of our generation by far. She's three albums and she's like the third biggest artist in the world. - Yeah, I know. - I'm like, and like, when she has ten albums, it's not close. - I saw a TikTok a couple days ago talking about like, we don't have a superstar of this generation. I think we do. And it's her. It's just not the traditional superstar that we've had previously. - Yeah. I mean, we have a lot now, honestly. Like, like, Sabrina's there. Now Olivia will get there for sure. - Olivia, do she's like on her way and her unique way. - I also think do she will be like, Beyonce levels of big. - She's-- - It's been so long since we had somebody who could like, do it all. Writing, lyricism, singing, or forming. Like her grant, like, when I saw all the Grammy's performance, I was like, literally top 10 artists of all time. - She's doing it. - Yeah. - She's doing it. - She's taking it. - She's taking it. - She's taking it. - There's also a really cute picture. I'm still looking. - I love this. - You're sitting on the steps. - Oh, thank you. - I'm really attracted to people who are creative and career-oriented, who is never satisfied with the place it's the, and has the ambition to build a life for themselves. See, right here, answering that prompt, you could have said something like, out of the blue, or like, super niche, in like a funny way. - Yeah, I do think my name's more humor. It's just your own. - No, no, no, no, I'm saying I think that's a good thing. - Okay. - I think through each, you've been showing the lightheartedness, but now you're giving me like a, he's genuine, he cares, he's deep. - He's genuine. - Yeah, this is giving, he has goals of his own and he is obviously career, you know what I mean? - Well, yeah, it's like giving, like, that's what I'm saying also, like, you can't, you can't be doing people that aren't doing anything. - It's all about this. - Yeah. - Right? - I mean, you've won me over. There's a cat in this last picture. - You're gonna kiss. - The thumbnail is us kissing. - Is it happening? (laughing) - Can we bring back like the old YouTube thumbnails? - I love, can you imagine? - Yeah, like, with it, with like knee cropped in a crazy way. - It's a knee-on background. - knee-on, um, like, font also, we need to bring that back. - We need to bring that back. Honestly, like, early YouTube raised me. - Yeah. - Jenna Marbles. - Oh my God, where's she now? - Tyler Oakley? - Yeah, I know. - She's retired in her mansion. She figured it out. - She figured out. - She figured it out. - I literally haven't talked about her in so long. - And I think that that's by design. I think she like got her bag in the side. - Got out. - Yeah, I respect it. I respect it. Randomly, I don't know why I've always found this so interesting. The guy who founded MySpace sold it for like $500 million. And just left. Like it never works another job. He just has like some random Instagram account where he posts him like traveling the world in the most stunning beautiful places. - Oh, love. - And I'm like, I like you. - Yeah. - And you're the one who should have been running all these social media apps then. - Yeah. - Because you're the only one who actually understands that like real life is way more important. - Right. Yeah, it's like, yeah. Like you made this whole social media and you sold that and we're like, fuck it out. - You get your bag and you go home. - Yeah. - And like I get like, that's, it's beautiful. - Yeah, that's big. - I really envy it. - That's big, that's big. - So I'm like, I would really want to talk to you about. And I'm like, very interesting. 'Cause I kind of moving this topic. Like something I talk about a lot on this channel is like this idea of like an artistic persona. And how I think a lot of the best artists are people who have really almost like crafted a character that is sometimes even not them but like based on their personality. - Yeah. - Like the example I always use is Sabrina Carpenter. Because I felt like she was somebody where it's like, you saw her music before and then it was like, the nonsense outros where it was like the little sexual thing, you know what I mean? And that's really sort of going viral. And then it was like espresso and it like clicks, right? She could tell like, oh this sort of like being a little witty and funny and sexual but like playing. And then she like crafted this thing that is right. And then short and sweet is that album. It is like her as this embodiment of like character almost. And like when I think about your visuals and some of the stuff you do, like the F Mary Kill music video and stuff like with the orange in your hair, blah, blah, blah. Like I think that is like, like when I first discovered you, like 1000 I was like, oh she has it. Was like when I saw your ability to like, craft this like identity and a visual thing. And like I would love to hear. Honestly, just like your perspective, like is that like very intentional? Do you really think about that? How it's going to look? How it's going to be captivating? Like yeah, totally. I think with that video specifically, I wanted the hair to be the forefront of the entire visual. And I love when I don't know, like people will come up to me and be like, wait, are you there? You know that girl that I fuck with with the orange hair forever? Like I love that people know that as my thing. And definitely super intentional. Like always starting with an idea from me, whether it's like on Pinterest or like I'm sketching something out. I have a board for everything for every song that I've had come out. There's like a board and a vibe for it that I start with. And then like we'll sit with my team on and like, you know, discover. So figure out more of the idea that we want to do like craft a visual before the song or do you write the song and then craft a visual? The song typically comes first, but there was one. I think for the actually for the F. Mary Kill video, I had knew that I had just wanted to do something with hair for a long time. Where everything is hair. The chandelier's hair, the ladder's hair, the chair's hair. Even on tour, like taking that on tour with me, having the mic stand be hair. I bet your shower drain is crazy. Oh my god. You don't even the floor in my bathroom is like constantly covered in or chair. And when I wash it and like the dye is like staining my tub, it looks like I'm murdered somebody. It's so wild. That's so funny. I know. But yeah, I love starting with and I like, I think the song for me will always come first. And sometimes when we're writing it, like I'll get ideas about where I can see it going visually. And I think it's important. Like, something I was like, we see music when we discover it now is like something I think has really changed in this era of the music industry is like, we don't hear the song on the radio. We see a TikTok. Yeah. We see a music video. Yeah. You were out at the club with your friends and you're seeing how, how are they dancing to that thing, right? Yeah, totally. Like, this idea of like them being separate entities, I think no longer exists. Yeah. And I think the best artists, I think of like a tie with a creator, right? Like, it is so start Beyonce, another great example. Like, what they're geniuses is their ability to make it so cohesive. And that storytelling aspect is, I think, like their greatest strength as an artist, even. It's the way they see something to its end, like before it's even began. I don't know. It's just so interesting. And I, like, when I look at yourself, I'm like, you really have that. And like, that's what makes me, like, so excited about you as a artist. They're definitely the blueprint for sure. Like, those are the artists that inspire me to create a whole entire world. Yeah. And I'm constantly looking to those like North stars that I have like that when I'm getting inspired for the next thing. That's it. Yeah. Well, I just want to thank you so much for coming on. I had such a great time talking with you and Gavin and we got through a lot. We got through a lot. You've got my own profile. You learned about a revenge fantasy of mine, which I had never shared on the internet before and I hope that man's a lot watching. And here we are. And if he is, hey, we're coming for your notes. But thank you all so much. And we'll see you next week. Bye. Bye!