The End of The Bachelorette

[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Bachelor Party. I'm Julia Littman. I'm here at Cali Curry. And Rachel Lindsay. Rachel. Welcome to the podcast. Guys, thank you for welcoming me. And I'm so happy to be here with the three of you. The two of us, all three of us. The three of us. The three of us. The three of us. Yeah. So here's the deal. Cali and I taped a whole Taylor Franklin Paul segment a few hours ago, but it was before some things happened. So we're scrapping it. We had this recording on the books, because we three are going to be covering the season of the Bachelorette together. Yes. Rachel was coming back to the franchise because of this Bachelorette. Yeah. So we were supposed to be using our time that we're using right now to talk about episode one. So full disclosure, we've all seen episode one. However, things change. Cali and I will talk about survivor and age of attraction at the end of this podcast. It's probably going to seem irrelevant and random, but we're going to run it anyway. And in the meantime, we are here to talk about what's going on with Taylor Frankie Paul. And so, last time, Cali and I talked about her on Monday. And things have drastically changed since then. And then the drastically changed again since this morning. Because this morning, CMZ released the video that was used in Taylor's court case in 2023 when it was her first aggravated assault conviction for assault against Dakota. It is sort of like the culmination of this week's drip of news about their relationship. The other major news that has come out this week is that season five of Mormon wives is on hold. Because the women were refusing to tape with her and didn't want to film with her until things were settled. And there's a new dispute, a new case being investigated about both sides of Taylor having assaulted Dakota and Dakota having assaulted Taylor. I think also Utah child and family services is involved. And the video that came out, both at TMZ posted, Rachel noted, and we were chatting that it's technically been part of the official record, but it was never like disseminated via the media. TMZ posted this 2023 video of Taylor jumping on Dakota and then throwing three metal skulls at him and her own. They canceled it. They did. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. TMZ reporting it. So she just said to me, oh my God. And she said, guys, why do I have chills? The Bachelorette Taylor Frankie Paul season canceled. TMZ has learned ABC is pulling the plug on Taylor Frankie Paul season of the Bachelorette amid fresh claims of domestic abuse and the 2023 video of her fighting with her baby daddy. Yeah. So in the video, I think also crucially, the fighting is terrible, but also one of the stool's hits Taylor's daughter who at the time was five and then you hear her crying. It's a horrible video to watch. This is a huge deal. This is a huge, huge, huge deal. I want to note the Bachelorette has not been on TV since 2024. I don't know where the Franchise moves forward. Rachel, I want to get your reaction. I just think first, I just want to say, Taylor, everything Taylor's done, she really needs help. Like it's very clear. Yeah. That's sort of number one. And we don't condone any of her actions. I think it's a more nuanced method, though as well. So we'll get into it. But first, Rachel, former Bachelorette, what's your reaction to the fall on cancellation? OK, this is fresh. I literally-- We all just found out. You wrote this news. I just got the text message and it's reported by TMZ. It's happening. A Disney spokesperson has already put out a statement. Before we hopped on this podcast, we were talking about will they won't they? Will they won't they? And even on higher learning when I was trying to catch fan up, he was like, there's no way they'll do it if they've already shot it. Yeah. Because there's so much money involved. Not just what it looks like for Disney, but what it-- just the uptime, the money, all the people who work on the show, just like all of it, right? But one-- OK, I'm trying to think of the ways to talk about it. Sure. It's just today. This is fluid. We'll work on it together. Today, this morning, we saw the video. Right? So I send it immediately to you. I'm here in New York, and I'm like, look at this video. Five minutes before I'm about to get on to record higher learning. And it's over. Yeah. That was my thing. I sent it to you in Cali, and I'm like, it's over. There's no way-- You're right. --under any brand, particularly Disney, that you can proceed when this video comes out. And then it makes me go back to-- there was a lot of outrage when she was cast. And I have to get on to myself for this. When she was cast, of course, we responded. I was-- We were-- The three of us got on a conference call in August, because we were so excited about it. Yeah. I think it woke up from a nap. And right when Rachel told me, I popped up. Like, so excited. And then one of you called me. I didn't pick up. I was on leave. The other one of you texted me, being like, pick up the phone. Well. And then we had a conference call. Because I told you before. Actually, if you could have told you before. Well, that's really-- I'll just say. Well, there's no season. It doesn't matter now. But it's because I told you before. But yeah, we were all so excited. And something that Callie and I have been trying to reckon with is we're part of the problem here. We've been hyping this up and really excited about a messy batch or app. That's what we wanted. But we don't want this messy. You know-- Rachel, I have a question for you. Because earlier today, when we podcasted, I told Juliet that I felt semi-responsible. Because-- and not that our opinion means that much. But more so, just like we were some of the voices that were in huge support of this casting. But even at the time we found out about this casting, like we had enough evidence to know this was not a good idea. OK. So this is where I'm going to fault myself on this. Now I'm not going to take the blame. No. We need to make it in these regions. We were just saying. Because we know that the typical batch lorette-- and I'm assuming they did this for her-- goes through an STD background test, a psychological test, and a criminal background test. Like that's three of the tests that you go through. So I would imagine that they would have done that for her. Do you think that they do that for her, though, and she's already on one of their network shows? Like I understand she's not on ABC. But she is on Hulu already for three seasons. Maybe not. But this is where I say I take blame. If you had asked me prior to this to explain, even though we saw episode one of season one, that this domestic violence dispute happened, like it happened. We didn't see what we saw today that was released by TMZ, but we knew it happened. I didn't do more research. And this is where I'm going to blame myself. I couldn't have explained it to you the way I can explain things now. I knew that there was an issue. I thought they both were at fault. I knew there was a child present. I thought it had been concluded that the child was not struck. And I thought they settled, because it was a criminal thing, but she pled to something. She pled to aggravate an assault, and the other four charges were dropped. So not with the child. Yeah. And so I took that and I just left it there. And I didn't really do any research. And I was like, OK, I thought they removed the child. Not the domestic violence is OK in any kind of way. I thought that they were both at fault. I knew he didn't want to give a statement. And I just took it there. There was still a lot of outrage, though, because she was announced because people brought this up. And I even was kind of-- I still didn't do research. I just was like, well, I remember that the original report-- And I thought she pled to this. And the other charges were dropped, which I thought they couldn't prove. That's why they were dropped. And it could be because he didn't give a statement. Or just because-- Isn't it true like in the court system? Like you just take a plea deal and that's what it is. And then kind of like move on. But my main thing was what I saw on season three. I saw a person who went for weeks away on a retreat, who told us that she had healed. And we saw it. She was very calm. She was kind of the voice of reason for season three. And I thought that is what we were getting coming into the Bachelorette. I thought that is who said yes to the Bachelorette. I thought she was still in therapy. She's still working on herself. But she is on the road to recovery. We also saw her in it with Dakota. Even when season four starts-- and that's a whole 'nother conversation-- she starts saying they haven't been together for a year. That is who I thought was saying yes to the Bachelorette. Did I think she was going to find love? No, I've been very vocal that I'm there to watch it be her-- for the entertainment purposes. Yeah, for them to love. And she gets it? Great. I'm not going to root against it. But that's not what I was watching. Let's put aside what we saw-- what has come out-- I love the way that you used drip. What has been like-- the information that's been dripping out this past week-- let's put that aside. I want to come back to it, but yeah, let's put it aside. Season four. If you watch season four-- Yeah. --how did this-- Yeah. That's-- We've talked about it. Once I watched it-- and if you talked about it, we don't have to get in a detail. No. I just-- I don't know. like the season of the Boucher. It's not gonna air. because it's sort of, it's kind of like, it's so old. But, Kelly, why don't you, like, what do you think having now seen season four, like, what should they have done? Well, we, we, we, we, Julia and I have talked about it offline and online that we'll never see the light of day. But we both were kind of confused why after season four aired, it's the same people making these shows. So they were well aware of everything that was happening at season four during season four filming six, seven months ago. Yeah. And they still moved forward with her being the batch threat. Just season four alone is enough for me to be like, yeah, she can't be the batch. Yeah, just she's not ready. Just the last day where she misses her flight because she's fucked Dakota all night long. So she can't get on the, she can't get out of her house. Like, that alone is enough. And I just want to clarify one thing. The production team of secret lives of Mormon wives is different than the production team of the batch. But unscripted for Hulu is the same as unscripted for ABC. So at the network level, they do have the information. And the other thing that's so crazy is that as we saw in Mormon wives, the season three reunion was taped very stirring. Yeah, during season four, like a month before she goes on to start her season of the batch. And so maybe like six weeks, but you know, like the first day of filming, like Taylor's already in the machine for like how many weeks, right? Like before you actually get to your first night, like you do photo shoot and pre show press, like one or two weeks. She was announced. They were still filming when she was announced. Yeah, but I'm just saying like based on your experience, like night one with the limos. Like how long have you sort of been in possession of the batch threat before that? Like two weeks. Yeah, so there was like probably a month before in between like the season three, the season three reunion and Taylor's time, you know, with Warner Horizon, basically. And so they had all this information. And the end of the at the reunion, one thing that's come out this week with it apparently didn't make it to air the season three reunion is that they talked about new allegations between Dakota and Taylor. So like so they cut they cut it out. They cut it out of the reunion. And like the conversation was there for like fresh to again, on like the network level. So one of the things that I don't buy that TMD's I'm putting out this whole time is like ABC ignored like the information and whatever. It's like they didn't ignore it. They had it and they still decided to proceed anyway. So like they should have canceled it. But you know what should have never had it. Should have never been casted. Now I don't even think she should have ever been casted because now seeing this video, I'm like how the fuck did secret life of Mormon wives ever happen? Yeah. Because it starts with this dispute. Yeah. And I have to imagine that they had way more information than the rest of us. Now I will say I think both Juliet and I were way more aware of all of Taylor's flaws compared to what Rachel is saying. Like yeah. Oh, I just heard this this and this. We have been watching since season one. We knew she was. We knew everything that had gone on. And even beyond this one incident throughout the season, she has done some crazy things. So like yeah, we were very much aware that she does not make good decisions, that she's erratic, that she's chaotic, that she has drawn to toxicity. To the point where like you could say that she's like semi-adjected to this. I think she definitely is. I think she would even say, I think she might even say she's addicted to it. She kind of so. So yeah. Yeah. So we knew all of this and we're still like yeah. I can't wait for her. I need it back to the red. But can I just be honest? And I'm not trying to make excuses because again, I knew that there was a charge. I really thought they couldn't prove it. There's a conviction. Not just a charge. A conviction. Sorry. One conviction. But I always focus on the child part. And the reason I do that too is because as she was doing this press with this very quick press run, she kept saying I would never harm my children. I'm a good mother. And I was reading between that as as I believe you. I think that this was it was domestic violence between you and Dakota. Yeah. This this most recent time. And I'm also basing that off of in 2023 what she was convicted of was violence towards Dakota, not the kids. So in my mind, I guess I had glazed over it because I mean, because domestic violence is still an issue. So I'm still problematic. But when I was rooting for her and the mess, it was truly like, okay, she's still going to have a temper. She's still going to put people in her place. She's going to do things the way that she wants to. She's probably going to probably going to be really rebellious. But she's going to she's not going to be violent. Yeah. That's what I assumed because I also did we not all to give you guys. I know you're saying we wanted this. But there's no way you thought if she was still being violent towards anybody that they would have ever even now or even Hulu. Yeah, I couldn't have been as bad as what the video showed me to be. On the flip side of this and Rachel, you recently met her during filming. Yeah. When all the bachelors surprised her. From what we've seen, she's not mentally stable. It seems well, it's very clear in season four. I mean, for me, obviously now, like the headline is the fight with Dakota and the sort of collateral damage on her daughter. But the stuff with her mom, I was like, oh, she's not this, but sorry. I can't interact with you. Keep going. No, no, no. So yeah, I didn't want to say that like for sure. I was saying it seems that she is not mentally well. I cannot imagine what she is feeling right now to have this video surface ever let alone the day before a couple days before your bachelor's season airs, your bachelor's season being canceled and knowing that she does have a support system, but I don't know how healthy it is. I'm like, I'm ready to the god that they have people around her right now. Yeah, absolutely. It's got to be really low. Also, she must be so worried about what her kids will think. Well, I mean, everything. I mean, taking away from her. Yeah. Like all and in sounds like it's already that's already in play because of the way the table. Yeah. So it's got to be a really, really, really low, low, low moment. It's I'm like worried about her. I'm worried about her too. I mean, I know that it's being reported that a psyche, I can't talk this happens at the end of the day. A psychiatric evaluation has been ordered for both her and to cope. Yeah. But I do hope that she is like being surrounded by people to watch over her because this is really, really dark. I hope I do hope the children maybe at this time are with their grandparents or another family member at the same time. I'm saying this just based on the video. I'm just saying because she's not who would be in a good place at this moment. And this isn't to shoot like anybody who's listening, like, I'm not, this is not to make excuses. Okay. I'm not and I want to be clear. One of these other bachelor rents out here who could not condemn what they saw. Okay. I saw a couple of other bachelor's, you know who you are putting up statements saying like, I, you know, I've seen what's out there. I'm going to wait for more information. But when I met Taylor, she was this. Stop. Right. I saw this. Stop. Or somebody else saying, well, when I saw what I, I understand because I've gone through an issue. That's your issue. This is Taylor's issue. Totally different. You know, didn't put out a statement. Me. I met Taylor. I'm not Taylor's friend. I don't know Taylor. So why would I put out a statement as if I do? I met Taylor when I met her. She was nice. She was very curious. She had a lot of questions. But I always say, I said she was overwhelmed and she didn't know who we were. I know that I know that I know. So actually, if this earlier, I know the look in the eye when you don't know who the people are. Because I didn't know the other bachelor's like that either. I was like, I know Trista. Okay. But I, I just, we don't know her. You don't really know anybody. Right. So I'm not going to put out a statement there. And I'm not here to take up for her. But I'm also not here. It's like beat her down. Because we also don't know all the details. But what I will say is this is bad. This is bad for Taylor. Personally, this is bad for her children. This is bad for, and that's just that. Because I want to save space for that. This is bad for the bachelor. As a franchise. I want to get into that. This is bad for Disney. This is bad for Hulu. Because somebody's going to have to take the blame for not vetting this out. We've had other instances of contestants where there've been domestic violence issues. And these men, because it's been men get dog. How did this pass the threshold? Because I would just assume that it was, oh, that it was okay. I, I think it's inexplicable. I think in Cali and I did say this on Monday. If you watch season four, it's like, why do they position it this way? Like why did they show? Because then, you know, like, full disclosure, we've all seen episode one of this bachelor's season. That's not going to air. The Taylor that we were going to get in the bachelor's season is not the Taylor of C-Skinf's Secret Lives Immortem and Wise. She's there a little bit. But it was a generous, generous edit that made her seem like she was ready and like, open. Beyond that, I'm like, they make her seem like this sweet little single mom. And like, I'm not saying that she's not those things, but she's also a lot of other things and they made to not include some of the other things. And I think that might be one of the reasons that they're like, there's no way we can air this. - That's how I agree to you. - That comes out. - And one of the other things, I just wanna say this, this is a People Magazine article that came out yesterday. Macy Nealey says that Mormon Wives Season 3 gave Taylor Frankie Paul a very quote level-headed edit ahead of her bachelor at debut. So again, we knew about the charges in 2023, but you've heard all of us say, we watched her in season three and thought, whoa, she's on the road for healing. Again, the responsibility is with, if what Macy is saying is true, the responsibility lies somewhere in whoever is in charge of this editing and gave the go to edit certain things out to where as an audience, we thought Taylor Frankie Paul was one way when in reality, she wasn't okay, she wasn't healed, she wasn't better in any kind of way, and maybe they thought they couldn't do it in season four, but I don't know. I don't know, but this is, - It's so inexplicable. Also, it's just because of the disappointing. The build of season four is to her like, having sex with Dakota. - Yeah. - It's just so confusing. So I mentioned this before, the bachelor at has not been on in two years. The last bachelor at was Jen, and then it went to Grant to bachelor, and then it went to Golden Bachelor with Joan, which was a total bust, and then Bachelor in Paradise in Costa Rica at the corporate hotel, which I don't think was that well received either, a lot of time at the pool. Like, Callie, where do you think the franchise can go from here? And I know that's less important than the charges, but like, this is a podcast about, this is a started as a podcast about the bachelor at the bachelor party. So it's called bachelor party. So like, where do you think the franchise can go from here? - Away. (laughs) - Yeah. - Do you know what it's like, just it's done forever? - I think it might be it. And we have talked about like, what could save it? And we wanted somebody like a tailor. - Yeah. - Clearly not tailor. There's other more and why I've said a single that we think could have been better suited. There's plenty of other reality stars that could have been better suited, or even traditional talent that are single and could have been better suited. And same for on like the men's side as well, but for this to crash and burn so awfully. And I would say like Rachel, we've said that if this season actually aired, like without all this drama and how excited we were for Taylor, if this season completely flopped, we thought it was gonna be the end of it. This is beyond flopping. Yeah. - It's a fiery death in hell. It's really bad. What do you think, Rachel? - I think it's over. - And fully. - I think it, I don't know. I'm trying, as Callie was talking, and I was listening to what you're saying, I was trying to think of a scenario where it could be different. Because this isn't just, oh, we put it all on a person. This person did this. This is the system that allowed this to happen. So how did the name Bachelorette Bachelorette is tainted at this point? How do you move forward past that? You can't. People are going to, people are already mad. There was a, there was a sect. There was, there was excitement. There was gonna be a new audience, but the traditional Bachelor of Viewers were already upset by this decision. - Yeah. - So how do you trust this name, whose Bachelor of Bachelorette that has meant something to people moving forward? You don't. You already questioned it when you moved Taylor Frankie Paul over. Now it is completely destroyed. Like, why did you guys think this was okay? That's the question that needs to be answered. We're never gonna get that from Taylor at this point. I don't, I think, I could make an argument, secret lives may be done. - I think so too. I actually don't, I mean, she's certainly off of that, but, or she has to be. But I, I don't know even how they got to this point. It's just so confusing to me. I've said this a million times now, but like I don't know how the same network was like, yeah, let's do this season four. More than one. - Yeah. - You're gonna go straight into Bachelorette. It's so dissonant. Like it just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean. - Do you think that they had seen this video season one of Slamo? - No. I don't think so. - Yeah. - No, I think because the charges were dropped, I think it was, it was hidden. But obviously this was produced in a strategic way. - Yeah, I want to get on the, yeah. So yes, keep, I think for the past week, it seems like there was a coordinated, like, take down of Taylor. - It was a build up. - Yeah. And that's not to let her off the hook in any way, but like, yeah, a lot of the information we're getting, like none of it is new. The video, the thing to me that stuck out as like the weirdest, well, I think reality Steve became in possession of a photo of the text message. - I mean, the phone calls. - Yeah, we're Taylor, call Tim 118 times, like 2am or something like that. And it's like, you don't go to reality Steve, unless like you're trying to do some kind of coordinated effort to like, take down Taylor and the show in the week leading up to it. - Yeah, it's so. - Supposedly it was Dakota's roommate who sent the picture of Dakota's phone to reality Steve. Also Dakota's roommate who took videos of what happened recently. - And called Dakota's roommate. - Dakota has a roommate. - I have that thought too. Yeah, Dakota's roommate. (laughing) - Also Dakota's roommate who called the cops and took pictures of his neck after the supposed scratching and strangulation. - Yeah, it's all coming from Dakota's team. I mean, when I saw the report that allegedly Dakota tried to warn ABC about the crime. - That's ridiculous. - That already, that was a bad headline to me. Like when I saw that, I said, oh, they are setting themselves up to blame this network for this coming out. It just, like, as you said, it was just being fed to us day by day. - I don't even know if he wanted to release this. I feel like he was giving piece by piece to see what it took to get this canceled. - Oh, I think he always planned to release this. - I don't know. - From the way that TMZ article was written, I thought maybe they got it out of the corpiles. The video. - I didn't get to read the article. - I just podcasted. - It didn't seem like they, although I don't know, they put their watermark on it. I don't know. It's not clear to me that the video was given to them, but a lot of it was. And TMZ was just running these really credulous headlines that were just ridiculous. Like, - The other thing that Julia and I had talked about earlier, sorry, I'm gonna keep saying this, but like we talked about it for 45 minutes. - No, we're not putting it up. - But two things. One thing, Dakota in the past has done this. Time and time again, when Evert Taylor has anything coming out, he does something to sabotage it. It gets in a fight with her, says something, whatever. So it's just weird that this is happening again, but at the same time, when TMZ reported everything, they did a timeline of like what Taylor's team is saying and what Dakota's team is saying. There were stuff that Taylor's team was saying that was already proven false and that Dakota's timeline was proven to be true. And we were saying like, that's not a really good place for Taylor to be going into this, that we've already, we already know that Dakota's telling the truth about one thing and you're not. - Yeah. - So then that just makes people start to believe more things that he's saying. And who knows if he's putting a little bit of sauce on it or making, who knows? - I have a theory. - Okay. - When you look at the, so I text you before I started higher learning that the article about the video. - Yeah. - Higher learning, three hours later, there's an article that the show has canceled. I think somebody from the network sent it. - The video. - They knew they were gonna cancel it. The network did not see that video and then three hours canceled the show. I think they already had the video. - I, I have, I kind of agreed that 'cause what I was gonna say is Callie was talking. I think the death knell for her was GMA yesterday. - Doesn't that sound familiar? Literally five years ago, there was a GMA interview. - With Chris Harrison? - Yes. - Yeah. - And it was like, what was that? And then shortly after. - You came on extra? - No, shortly after. He left his job. (laughing) - I'm just saying they don't code. It's a good morning America. - Did he do extra before GMA with you? - He did extra interview. Then he went to GMA to talk to Strahan and Strahan literally said after, yeah, I don't believe any of that. - Well, Lara Spencer tried to get Taylor to like take some culpability and she wouldn't do it. You said, you know, I'm a good, I said, I'm a good mom, but like, she did not ignore it. - It was a little weird. It was very, very weird. - Yes, face was like, well, yeah, there were two, there were kind of like two crucial parts that interview. One, she used the first part where she could have been like apologetic. I think the company woman would have been like, you know, I'm really sorry this is happening. I'm really sorry to my wonderful 23 guys who put their life on hold to come on the show and it's gonna overshadow it. But I hope people watch our show anyway. She could have said that, but instead she basically said, I've been through this before, preferring to what happened in 2023. I got to tell my story. I hope I get the opportunity to do it again. So it was very focused on like the moment she was in. And then the second time, the second thing was Lara Spencer was like, you know, it's been reported that filming has stopped on season five and Mormon wives, like, what can you say about that? And Taylor was like, yeah, I just found, I just heard that. I was just told that. And Lara Spencer was like, well, aren't you an executive producer on the show? And Taylor was like, yeah, but I just, what did she say? - She was like, "I just found that out too. - She was like, "I have no control. I just found that out at the end of season four." - Right. - She's like, "Yeah, just saw that." I was just like, "Wow." - But also, she in the very beginning of the interview is like, "Obviously, it's been a heavy time." But like, you know, I'm just trying to live in the moment and like, you know, just be excited for the Bachelor. Obviously, I also like put my kids first. But, you know, at the same time, just trying to enjoy this moment. And I was just like, "This is not good." Like, you're not coming across good to anyone, not to moms, not to bachelor at fans, not to your men, not to ABC. Like, who are you looking good for? - I am so glad you pointed that out because she made a statement where she was like, you know, it's just a heavy time. And sadly, every single one of my premieres has been, I haven't been able to enjoy any of them. And then my mind, I was like, "That is such a selfish statement because it's stuff you did." It's not like there've been lies told about you. It's stuff, again, I was like, where's the lack of accountability? And this is before the cancellation, this is before the video. I just remember listening to that and thinking, who told you to say that? - Right. - There's another thing she said, I'm not gonna say, it was political and I was like, who approved this message? That's how I felt when I felt that. - You could say what it is. - Oh, you can double-check. - No, no, no, no. - It was, I really can't translate this to Kirk. But it was comparing it to something else. Maybe it was, I think it was in Minneapolis. It was either Renee Good or Alex Prede. I think it was Alex Prede. - That's what it was, it was Alex Prede. - And she said, "Alex Prede and Charlie Kirk, I'm sorry, what?" - She was like, no one deserves to die. And I'm so sad that this is happening in Minnesota. Much like what happened to Charlie Kirk. And everyone was like, what? - I wrote publicly, who approved this message? - And I say the same thing about this. The first statement we got when this information started to drop this week was her first response was, "It's a heavy time." And then she said, "I have not been able to enjoy any of my premieres." And the word "enjoy" should not have even been in the statement. - Has any Bachelorette enjoyed their premiere after having been on the show? Like, is it art most of you? Like traumatized? - The traumatized show. - The press that you do before the premiere of your season is really fun. - Oh, okay. - Like, you're on Good Morning America. You're talking about how excited you are for everyone to see this. Like, you're all dressed up. It's like the first time you've even been, Taylor hasn't, because she's been on Mormon wives, but it's the first time you've been adored in this way. It actually is, they give you, your role, at least they used to, like Michael Strand would give you a role. - Sure. - And get it's a totally fun time. - Okay. - So Taylor's been robbed. - Not to sit down where you had to prep with a crisis PR person, at least that's what was being reported. That's not how it goes. - Right. - I just feel like, as a mom, two things. One, and I don't think you have to be a mom, feel this way. But as a mom, watching that video was horrifying. - It was very, really sad. - But it made me feel nauseous. - Yeah. - And also, I was like, how the fuck did she get her kids back? Like, obviously, I hope she did work and whatever, and it seems like her ex, which Julia and I said, like, it seems like he is a pretty normal guy and he has chosen not to be a part of slow-mo. He has chosen not to allow her kids, their kids, the two kids that he has with her. They're not allowed to be on it at all. So he is clearly like a protective parent and isn't willing to do things that don't fall within his values for money. That seems to be very clear. And also, even through all of this, and everything with Dakota, he has pretty much been silent. Like, he is like, I am out of the way. I'm here for like me and my kids, that's all I care about. I don't even know where I was going. - They have a good relationship. She calls him on the Susan premiere. - Yeah, she does. - She asks him a question. While you were talking, and I'm sorry, this is my thoughts are all over the place, but the answer was key. - It's real time, yeah. - We just found this information out. I don't think that video was in the police file. Because if Dakota refused to give a statement, then why would he give the video? And if all the other charges were dropped, it was enough, 'cause now I've looked at the complaint, it was enough that he actually had physical marks on his body to corroborate the fact that he had been attacked. So I don't think they had that video. - So Taylor, the video just saw. - No, I don't think the police did. - Oh. Taylor did and a cop has. - Sorry, TMZ says TMZ has obtained the video, a copy of which was evidence in the case. - Well shit. - Sorry. - I was trying to make the-- - That's your point. I don't know how she did not get charged. - Yeah, and how did she get charged? - How this wasn't figured out sooner or how the network didn't have it sooner, or maybe they did and still proceeded, which we've said a million times. - But also when I was going with my, no, go ahead. And you keep going. - What I was going to say with my long statement about like as a mom seen that video is horrifying, it seems like her ex is doing everything possible to protect his children as much as he can from what we know. - Not to say you're giving them one credit, but yes. - He's doing, he's doing, he's making some good decisions that we are aware of. - He's doing things that we are aware of that we agree with, parenting-wise. If that was my kid in that video, it would take heaven and fucking earth for them to see that parent again. - Also, in the video Dakota goes, you're drunk. And so, it was also that. - And he was sober at the time. - Yeah, yes. - And which is also interesting, 'cause by the way, on the Bachelor of Primer, she makes a point of saying I don't drink anymore. - And she hasn't since that day. - Yeah. But with these new DV allegations that include children again, which they're allegations so we don't know what exactly has happened yet. Her showing up for like, GMA and all that, I'm like, that would be the last fucking thing on my mind. - She obviously just has- - I wouldn't care about the season being canceled, cancel it. Like, I need to get help or I, if it's not happening, whatever is happening, like I need to make sure that like my kids are good. - Yeah. - And that I'm okay for my kids. - Well, she obviously doesn't think the way that we do. Or that, yeah. - And I think she has a lot of people around her that are like, no, no, no, but the best rat. - Yeah, I think so too. Also, she, I think, wanted a moment. Like, I think also we saw this with Whitney and with Jen. And like, Whitney's having this huge moment where she's like, had the highest grossing week of all time for Chicago and like, having a celebration. Jen also dancing with the stars. Like, I feel like, and Taylor has been the star of the show and like the leader of Mom Talk, I think. Like, I think these, each of these women, like, you know, they, Mom Talk has anchored them in a way, but like they all do want to have their own breakout. And Taylor was poised to have like, the biggest breakout solo moment possible. And I think she kind of was just like, pursuing that over everything else. And I do think to your point, Cali, like, there's some- - Other than Dakota. - Other than Dakota. Her mom and her family, like, obviously, her mom and her sister were like very much pro. Like, yes, you should be doing this. They were on the show and they were supposed to fly to LA with her. And I think also her mom made it possible for her to go on the show because she says that like her kid, she was gonna be able to see her kids. I presume it's by having her mom come with them. So it's just like, she definitely has enablers around her. And it's not, but it sounds like, you know, for the other moms and Mom Talk, like, they maybe just, like, enough was enough. And it must have been a really bad fight at the end of February between her and Dakota for the other mom talk women, like, we're not doing this anymore. - Yeah, seeing two conflicting things. One, what you said, or reports, one, what you said about they refused to film with her. But the other one was that he disappeared. They said he disappeared for three weeks. They couldn't find him and they need him. I think I might have come from her side, but they needed him to film because he's such a crucial part of the show. But now that I know that in Cali's saying it too, that it came from her side, then, you know, - I think Macy confirmed that she was in-- - And Mikaela. - Yeah, Macy and Mikaela confirmed they won't film with her. I thought it was a sorted out, whatever that means. - Think of even how we got Mormon wives. Remember, they were not in a good place with her because she had made it seem like they were also a part of the swinging scandal and they weren't. And their names were kind of being dragged through the mud because of what she said in such a reckless way. Now, they cannot afford to be enabling her with something like this. And it's so, like, even when I watch Mormon wives and you watch that argument that she's having with her mom and her mom is getting onto her, and I don't want to spoil it for people, but for a decision that fucking really doesn't matter at this point, but for a decision that she made that she didn't agree with. And her defense is, "I've explained this to you. I'm addicted." That's not okay. And even information that I've received from this week of kind of like how she's responding to it, it's that, well, this is who I am, not about the domestic violence I want to be clear, but just more of when people question her and we should talk about this too, of like, what should people watch your season? What do you think about the men? Are you concerned about people being invested? It's kind of like, well, this is me. This is who I am. And so there's just like a disconnect there. And so even out of all the things we talk about, two things I really do hope that and I know we can agree on happen. One. And the children are where they can be that is most safe and beneficial to them. Ever that's with, not just where they are, but who that's with. And then too, she needs to go away and get help. And I hope that they're able to specifically target what that help is that she needs. Whether it's one thing or multiple things, she needs help. Being on TV is not good for her. It proves it. It excuses things. Yeah, like it's, but like it's not just TV, it's TikTok too. Like she, she, I think that's a big part of it. Like this, this shit with, um, she posted a video this week where like you see the arm of a guy. And I guess it was the guy who was going to have won the baps or ed or something like that. Like, I do think that she's not alone in this, but like, you know, it's proven like people feed off the attention and the feedback from social media. Yeah. When your famous is her on TikTok, like it's to an extreme degree. It's like she needs to just like have her phone taken away. Like she just needs to like, like, she needs like a three month, like, like detachment from her world. And I hope that she can see her kids in a safe way through that. But other than that, like, she, it's like a full detox that she needs. Cause her idea is wrapped up in the top. Yeah. And then in getting approval and back and forth with people who are not in, in the reality. Like somebody told me I also heard that during her season, you know, she says, like, this is who I really am. Well, that was what does that mean? Like the way that we'll never see, but the way that you see her journey through this season, she's like, this is me. It's different from what you've seen on woman wives because she's detached from Dakota because she doesn't have her phone, all of those things. And so if that's her, you know, I'll believe her. It's a version of her we haven't seen. So maybe you tap into that and say, like, that's the kind of things or boundaries I need to put in place with this particular man or unhealthy relationships, including with her phone, not just with people. And maybe that will lead you on the road to recovery. But I think that she should know sit down interviews. No, no, nothing. Just go get help. And in the two years, sit down and talk about your recovery, but no, no, no, I'm not going to reward it with anything like that. Is it a bachelor at group chat popping off? Like what's happening right now? No, the last thing that was said was, I see this is the other thing. This goes back to when everyone was like, how did I respond? When it was like her season was about to start, what happens is on I message, what's app? Like, where is the chat? It's I message. I say, I had to look at my cool, what's the crew? It's bachelor's. We saw you on your red jumps. But they don't name it that. It's bets. Okay. What happens? The week hers, nobody has been silent since the information came out, except for the few people that have decided to talk on social media. Also, I was a Katie, Joan, Tasha, charity and charity refused to go to this media dinner earlier this week. Yeah. No, good for them. I understand exactly why they wouldn't do that. But last Sunday, the chat was active just saying because it was after the special. So everyone was like, oh, you know, it was so nice to see everyone and, oh, you know, like, people would be like, I'm so excited for you. For your season, I love you. And I was like, look at this. Yeah. I'm not sure. The share is fine. Not that I could tell. But she said, because I don't have any unknown numbers. No, she did not respond. Not once. So she got out of the chat. She did not respond. And then I said, I said, it's going to be an adventure. And I was excited for you to experience it. Like, yeah, it's going to be an adventure. I'm excited for you. It's because everyone was putting their names as you can have their number. But I was like, I'm not going to be like, I love you. You're going to be like, no, I want to be entertained. That's what at least I did. But not in this way. I mean, who knew when I said I was going to come back to Bachelorette, that this is what I would be coming back to. I mean, now I'm back out. I think we're just, yeah, I think I can't believe this might be the end of the Bachelorette full stop. But I don't know how it goes forward. This affects a lot of people. A lot. I mean, think about other podcasts. And then I'm not bad at talking about multiple things. I'm just saying like they're not going to be brand anyway. Yeah, that it's totally related to just this. Like, I'm like, want to do wellness checks on certain people who I'm like, what do you do when this and just, and let me just say this also. When I talk about, I don't know. I don't know if this is going to sound super harsh. I just want to say it. Well, I just was going to say there are people we talk about is this the end of the franchise. And it's easy to say, yes, I think so just in light of everything, I cannot see a world where it comes back. But in saying that, I think you also have to acknowledge that so many people are about to lose their job. Yeah. And that's the irresponsible part too with the network because I still have friends that work on the show and in an industry right now where it is slim picking when it comes to new shows and people even leaving the positions that they have, the jobs are do not exist. And so for people who have based their entire living, who have been a part of this franchise for over for double decade years, we just have to acknowledge that whoever decided to look past these issues or a video or a background and know that this could possibly come out and be detrimental to the franchise, whether it was one person, multiple people, whatever it may be. Now, it's a bigger loss. It's not just you don't get your season that air. Sure. It's that people are going to be unemployed. Right. And that is really, really sucks. Yeah, it sucks. It really sucks. Because I don't even see a paradise coming back. Like that at best. Also, it was the only show they could come back. It was really, really, really. That would be the best pivot for them is to just start filming paradise in the next like two months and start teasing it. But not the not the corporate hotel version. Like it needs to actually be not the corporate hotel version. I mean, there just hasn't been a good bachelor product in a long time. Like I didn't even remember Grant. Our producer Olivia had to remind me that Grant had a season. I haven't thought about Grant since his season ended. I like maybe once or twice. Like that was bad. Joan was terrible. Paradise was terrible. Jen season was like a total fiat with the way that it ended with like the guy she chose. Joey season was pretty good. Joey's was the last good season. Yeah. But that was also like that was on the heels of Clayton, which was bad. And like it's just been, it's been pretty rough. Basically, since 2019, I would say since Hannah Brown. It's been downhill since then, which like even the I think that has been another good season since 2019. It went Hannah Brown and then it went Peter and then that was it was enjoyable. It was enjoyable. It just was it was a rough ending. And even like the mom drama, it was funny. It's true. And then cove started like five days after Peter season ended. Like that like his his life finale might have been a super spreader event. And then COVID started. And we all know it hasn't been the same sense. Like it was the Clarentatias weird season. That was horrible. Then it was the Matt absolute tire fire. And then Chris Harrison leaves the franchise. And honestly, like since COVID, it has not been good. And it also went on like a 22 month run of being on constantly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when the product got bad. Yeah. It was it became quantity over quality. I will say a girlfriend of mine said the other day. Those are not meant to go on forever. And survivor. Maybe that's the reality that we write different type of show, but the reality that we might have to accept. Like they've been trying to hold on for as long as they could to you guys just laid out. It's been years. Yeah. Of subpar seasons. And it might it's crazy that this is the way it ended. Like, damn, it should have just ended on the special. It should have. Well, it's ending because people aren't going to see the first. So you will be a part of the last episode ever of the bachelor. I think that's a franchise. The problem to me though is that even though we did not enjoy and it seems like a lot of people have not enjoyed in years, the ratings still did pretty good in comparison to other reality shows. I think because it's on ABC, but I don't know in terms of like a water cooler show, like I can just tell you, people have said like, Oh, I thought you guys only talked about the bachelor on your podcast. So and I don't watch anymore. So it definitely doesn't have like the kind of mono culture aspect that it used to. And when I first started doing reality TV podcast was in July 2012. And it was I believe Emily Maynard season was the first one I covered and. Love that season. Yeah, it was great. Like from Emily Maynard really threw Hannah Brown, like that sort of like seven year stretch. It was kind of a center of reality TV. And like I have a center of popular culture and like a really mainstream way. And you know, I think that like, I mean, who can speak to that better than you Rachel, like from, you know, being like a regular person to being just like thrust into fame. Like it had the ability to change lives, right? Like definitely did. You still I don't know if it's. I mean, I don't know. I watched it years. Well, you even said that people that used to come off the show would have like X amount of following. And now like, like people come off the show and it's like peanuts. I remember when I went on the show, someone, one of the producers said to me, "You'll will never have to work in law again. - Well, that did turn out to be true. - But I did go back. - I did go back to years. But it easily couldn't, it's not that easy, but yeah, it had to, you guys's point, it had the ability to change lives. And it still does, just in a darker way. - Yeah, it's kind of nuts. This is, I'm not always gonna remember this podcast. It's hard for me to believe this is end of it, but I also don't see a path forward. - Is it, okay. - That has forgive me. I'm not trying to be, I'm not making light of anything, but like, isn't it kind of poetic that I just happen to be in New York? - Yeah. - And I, and doing bachelor party, and like, we're all gathered here. - I'm happy to be with you. - I can't believe that I was, I mean, surely I would have zoomed in. - Of course. - But I'm just saying, like, it's crazy. We were excited to do this episode because it was like, I'm gonna be back. And now it's like, wow. - What I said now, it's crazy is two minutes into recording this episode. Rachel, it's canceled. - My God, well, thank you for being here. Thanks for joining us. - Oh, thanks. - Thanks for having me. - We'll keep talking about this in the weeks to come. I'm sure it feels pretty relevant, but we had some fun talking about survivor and from age of attraction. - People made a palette cleanse. - Yeah, so we're gonna roll that. And yeah, I hope you enjoy. Let's get into it. Shall we move on to happier topics? AKA, survivor. - Is it happier? - RIP ranked my quite. What a sad loss. Moreover, what a waste of time was that brown? - So, we love survivor here. - I wish that we could screenshot our text messages leading up to the episode. We have found out that most people involved with Bachelor Party and morally corrupt are obsessed with survivor. I think it's like the number one show at the ringer right now. Like people love it here. - I don't know how you know. I was at my nephew's birthday party yesterday and it was like seven o'clock and my mom was like, are you ready to go? - Gotta wrap it up. - I was like, I've been ready. I gotta get home in time for survivor. And the guy sitting next to me was like, you still watch that? And I was like, I don't, you don't. - You don't. - You have a same thing. You don't watch it? I was like, I don't know how you don't. It's the best show on TV. - It is. - And I was like, there's a lot of rules. I was like, watch one episode and you'll pick it up. It's not hard. - There's not that many rules. I wish there were more. - More actually. - Also, I wish there was more production interference 'cause I'm so sad, Mike White is gone. - But that's kind of like, you know that a production was persuading people. Q would still be there. - Totally. - And Mike White would still be there. - It's two huge losses. It's really, I was reading survivor Reddit last night. I saw a good post that was like, when you have three tribes versus two, one of those tribes just becomes like the loser 'cause they just can't keep up. - Yeah, it's good, decimated. - Yeah. - And that's like, they should have done two tribes for 50 to have maximum like best players around. It's such a bummer. It's such such a bummer. - Also, Mike was playing. - I know, he really thought he did it by manipulating Christian. I have to give Christian a little bit of credit for like, - Picking up on it. - Was resisting, but to cast your lot with Emily, who's so chaotic and can't keep her mouth shut, is stupid. - Emily's gotta go. - I can't say that. - I've been anti-Emily since day one. - You have, you called it. - She's not it. - She's not it. It's so frustrating that he chose her over Mike White. And I guess like, he wanted to prove his point. - I don't think he chose her. I think he was like, "Oh, Mike White is here to play." Like, he's not fucking around. And because he sees it with Ozzy on this tribe, he's like, he's going to be hard to get out because people don't wanna go against him. - Right. And I don't think it's just 'cause they wanna be in White Lotus. I think he just seems really charming and like fun. - I don't, yeah, listen. Do I think Ozzy's gonna be maybe, who knows Mike White seems like there's no, like who knows if he'll be in White Lotus or not? - Yes, because they have the restaurant relationship. Like Mike White said. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also just like, whether it's conscious or unconscious, like celebrities have power and he is a celebrity now. And people think he's cool when he doesn't have to really do much. - Yeah. - I find him very funny and I was really enjoying watching him. - The shots of them coming out of the net after they lost. So sad and dramatic. They're on all fours crawling out like destroyed. And Christian and Mike White in particular, was like so funny. - I thought it was funnier when they'd be like, one, two, three. - And like the boat did not move. - Did not inch. Like an inch. And I was like yelling at my TV like, ah, that you had cue now, huh? - Cue agrees, he tweeted about it. He was like, that's what they get for Vodayak Cue. (laughs) 'Cause even trying to get the pales down, like they could only do one person at a time 'cause it wasn't strong enough people. - Yeah. - I'm like, guys. And Emily being like, you know what, we made a good move and you know, we might suffer in the challenges. Then everyone's gonna go home from your tribe, Emily. - I know, as you said, the same thing, very short-sighted. Emily just can't be trusted. So I guess Christian is just baking on the fact that when he gets back to, when they like, re-merge or whatever. - Urge, yeah. - Like he'll be back with Devons and it'll be fine. But also Angelina's now like a wild card. So like, you know, not that she's like powerful in this tribe, but depending on how things play out, I guess they're assuming they'll just lose again, but as she could just go. But it's just like, it was just a big loss. - Emily's gotta go. - I would love to know from Christian and he can't do press yet 'cause he's still on the show. If he made up his mind before tribal or if hearing might give that speech about like selling people on a dream or selling them on a story is what made him change. - They owned the coffin. - Yeah. 'Cause it was like a pretty bold move. - It was dumb. - Yeah, my mic. Like, it was very arrogant to position at that. - Yes, I agree. - It was a, yeah. Not a smart move. I was hoping when Emily was like, the vibe, but I forgot what she said, but she was like, things aren't right here. I was like, oh, good, maybe it's her, but I don't know. - Oh, she's so is, I was like, what are you doing? - I know. - Every time she says something, I'm like, what are you doing? - And the way that she just immediately told Ozzy after Christian told her not to was just honestly strange. I'm just like, do you have impulse control problems? Like, what is your deal? - In front of Christian. It was so, it was such bad gameplay. I did read, and I don't know if this is spoiler, but Christian and Emily have a relationship outside of the show. It's like, I read that too. - The neuro relationship, like very into like theoretical science or whatever. - What does that mean? - Well, I think it's like, Christians like a physics PhD whatever. Anyway. I'm sure that's playing into it. And it does seem like there's just with this cast in particular, so many outside forces from like, before the show, there are alliances and stuff, but yeah, I actually don't mind that. Like, that's kind of a criticism of this season. I don't mind it. Yeah, these people, they're from the system. I guess that's like, if I minded it, I wouldn't have watched the challenge for so many years, right? So it's fine by me. - Yeah, also, it's survivor 50, where you're having people from all these seasons. You don't think that people have like, kept up that we're like, honest season together or like, most people that go on survivor love survivor and they just keep watching it. They all know who each other are. The only people that have like, some sort of like, and an in-nemity were Rizzo and Savannah, Savannah's gone. So it's like really just Rizzo. And everyone else, for the most part, like they know each other. And they have to go to events every year for every survivor, premiere, and like, they're just gonna be around each other. - Yeah. - I did like, Christians standing behind Ozzy, like looking at Emily, like, shot up. - It was funny. - Christian is delivering the season, that's for sure. He's a main character. - Yeah, I'm like, how does he not win at the way the things are going? Obviously, there could be a huge turn of events, but like, - I know, thank you, Wendy. - It's a show right now. - I don't think he does, but I think they're setting it up for like, him to go far and like a big fall. - Fall? - Yeah. - So we're like Andy went on his season. Like, very someone like, - Oh yeah. - Of that, Andy. - Yeah, me too. - Okay. - Zach Brown? - Yeah. - I know it's 50 and they're trying to do these like, flashy things. It was half the show. - I saw this a lot of graphics about like, how much time he's gotten compared to other people. And he's had like, he had like four confessional's and Tiff has had one the whole season. And like, I don't give a shit about him spearfishing. I actually am way more interested in Ozzy catching eight fish after the challenge than I am about Zach Brown learning to spearfish. Like, I do not care. I'm like, this is just not what we're watching the show for. - And I actually like the music of Zach Brown's like, pleasant country music. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. No problem. I like Zach Brown. - Yeah. - No problem with Zach Brown. I don't need 20 minutes of him in Survivor 50. - Definitely not. It's such a waste. Like, the time is so precious. - Even like the songs? Give us like a 10 second. Like, I don't need to see them on the hammock. I don't need to see interviews of other people talking about how much he means to them. I don't need to see the interview or decrying on the beach. Like, I didn't need any of it. - I was like, did Zach Brown's music label pay CBS for this? Like, it's such a ridiculous promo for him. It was kind of crazy. - Yeah, I was really not into it. Also, I feel like when he's saying like, sweater weather, whatever it's called, cold or weather, I was like, it's not even one of your best songs, dude. At least that's how I feel. - Yeah, I just, that was, it was way, way, way too much. And usually we get a immunity challenge and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, only getting one, when we only got one, and they said it was for both, I was like, wait, what's the rest of the episode? And then halfway through the exact brown thing, I was like, this is this is the episode. It's it was no if you understand survivor and CBS people are counting down the hours so we get our survivor episode. I don't want to count down to that. That mean I was pissed. Also, we barely got to hear from the tribe that one, like, and some, a lot of the fun of when the tribe wins, they go to the sanctuary is like they get drunk and make mistakes and like do weird stuff. Aren't they supposed to be like talking strategy? We got none of it. I know. I, my favorite moment for the sanctuary that was seeing Colby, he just seemed like so at ease. And I just like this is Colby speed. I'm like, okay, make the checks out. It was a, it was a real bummer. And we got decrying about not going more than anything having to do a strategy. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care. I was sort of anti D the beginning of a season, but I'm glad you have her actually. Just whatever. I have never been anti, but I was kind of like, oh God again. I know. I know. No, no, no, with risk. God. And his Mickey Mouse impersonation really did a lot for me because it was so good. And also him and Charlie in a one sided beef. I know. Like for some reason, I love how much Charlie hates it. I know Charlie's great TV. I really like Charlie. I'm worried. Riz God is going to take him out, but who knows? I'm fine with risk. God taking him out if he has to, but I just think it's hilarious that Charlie liked him. And then right when he said he didn't vote for her. I was like, that's it. And I can't stop the game. That's who I would respond. I think I'd be like, yeah, I just can't get past that. So you're going to have to go. You would have cost me my survivor win just like my number one did. So I can't move forward with you. Yeah. Thanks for no thanks, Charlie. That's what I really was God. That's what I have for you. And it seems we're getting that next episode. I'm looking forward to the hours CBS pounding the hours. No, I mean, at some point Billy I wish has to show up, right? I assume just her name. I don't know. Shout out to Genevieve for finding another idol. Too bad she couldn't just keep it herself. I really wanted Aubrey to find it. I'm cheering for Aubrey because I feel like everyone's against her. She's looking on two tribes that don't fuck with her for no reason. Well, maybe that's not no reason. If the critical mass. I'd like to know the reason is she seems just like like she's like a loner. My guess is super confident. She's cried multiple times already. My guess is that she didn't participate in any of the pre show strategizing. So she's got like no ties to anybody. And therefore she's like this prior. It's a car and Chrissy. Like they both have nobody. Although, I guess at least Chrissy helps coach. Yeah. And yeah. Well coach. I don't know. I think coach and like Colby have like a good relationship. Yeah, but coach was like Chrissy, please stop talking like I just got it. Don't take this the wrong way. But you got to stop. And he's not a nice guy. I'm very anti coach ABC. I don't know what coach. He's definitely not gentle. No. He's. He's so obsessed with himself too. I'm just like what's so great about you. All it is like you've given yourself a mythology and like you spout it all the time. I love that when Zach Brown was talking about how he like watches the show with his kids and like family means so much to him or whatever. Just like flash to like a Joe coach and Colby. And I was just like, okay, I see. That's definitely the people they prioritize. That's for sure. They're like they're so proud because they're such high character men. I'm like, okay. I think a lot of people are hating Joe this season. Like a lot of people want Joe. He's just too much. He's playing too hard. Yeah, he was really softened by having Eva around. I think if Eva was the first season, we would have felt this way sooner. But they did a very sweet relationship. So that's nice. I guess it was yeah, just what a bummer. I did feel bad for D. She wanted she really wanted to go to the sanctuary. Okay. Well then when. I think Camilla has a really good shot. She's so fucking good at these puzzles. She's so good at guiding the strategy. She is the true puzzle person. And even if she's not like holding it up, like she is key to their success. I like that when because there's always like the people that come on the show that are like, I'm good at puzzles. I'm good at puzzles. Yeah. Which like I haven't heard her say once. She's good at puzzles. She's amazing. She saw the letters and was like a celebration. Yeah. I was like, how did you like it took her two seconds to figure that out? She plays New York Times spelling beat every day. There I mean something like she's practicing puzzles. Definitely. That's the only thing I can come up with. I would be happy if she went far. It would be it would be very deserved in my opinion like a different kind of game. She's getting. A lot. I would say Emily is also so I got the women she's getting some of the most like airtime. Yeah out of the women. It's been Stephanie. Kind of Angelina this week, but not really. But it's been it's been Stephanie Emily Camilla Camilla. And then before the marriage, Siri was getting a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I need. And Jenna. And Jenna. And Jenna. Yeah. I do need. Serita. Kind of like take a back seat for a few weeks. It's like she has. Although I know I like it. Yeah. She's in the longest her tribe stays winning or like in the middle of. She's on a great tribe. So they should keep winning. Yeah. I think I think they'll be fine. And of course she was one of the judges for the talent show. Like of course. She's obviously a natural born leader, right? Like she's always always leading whatever position she's in. I do think that being in we've talked about this, but like being a healthcare worker like when D was crying. Like if that were me, maybe, maybe I'd be nice about it. I don't know if I'm hungry, probably not, but like she's a hungry and like you see her like tap D's children. She's like, you okay. I'm like she's crying about a fucking band appearance on survivor. Like she's not crying because she didn't get rice. Yeah. Do you watch the pit? Of course. I could see Seria is one of the great nurses of. They should give her. They should give her a little spot. I don't know. She's a great actor, but yes, sure. The pit though. I feel like just be yourself for like 10 seconds. That's true. She's be yourself. I love Dana. Just like Mike White gave Angelina Angelina two seconds. She could do it. Baby Jane Doe. You like Dana? Love. Yeah. Maybe she's a big character. Yeah. I think she's like the crowd favorite. I'm not I'm not alone in this stance. She's great. I love Dr. Shows. I love it. I've been really surprised at how much I like Santos this season. Just great writing all around. I'm obsessed with Sean had to see the guy who plays Dr. Abbott who's like the night counterpart of Dr. Robbie. He's only on a few episodes. He's like the one that always takes over for him. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Love that guy. Well, he's been on a more this season because he's no wily is always almost leaving. Always on the verge of having a breakdown too. So almost going to go on his motorcycle. I'm like, is this trip happening or not? I think, well, I think that's he has like four more episodes to go with three more to go. So we'll find out. I also just want to note on the pit. Water parks and like roller coasters are like two of my biggest fear is because like they're so unregulated and like could break it any time. So didn't didn't need that to be a storyline. Maybe because I grew up in Orlando. Like I'm not fearful at all. Well, I think Disney has a higher standard than like your average water. Like I'm not going to those were. First of all, disgusting. You already know how I feel about that. The germs are that's a no go for me. I'm only going to like Disney water parks, which they keep incredibly clean and they're still dirty. Yeah. But like when I did it live in Orlando, when you live in other places, they have like those random theme parks that everybody goes to. There's one here in North Carolina. And when I went to it, I was like, it's so dangerous. Are we sure? No, we're not sure. Also, it's like teenagers running it. I know. It's only unregulated. There's no like safety standards. It's really dangerous. And Disney, they're so strict on the high requirements. And have you go, you don't get on rollercoasters. There's this, there's this ride there called tron and it's like one of the only rollercoasters I'll get on for some reason it doesn't make me sick. But it's the fastest one. And Carter made the height requirement. And she really wanted to get on it. And I was like sweating in line. Like I'm like, is this a horrible parenting decision. And she was so excited because none of her other other cousins could make it because they were all shorter. But her being younger and still taller. She was like, I'm going. We got in line. They measured her. I'm not even getting like seven times before we got to the front, which at one point I kind of got annoyed, but it made me feel better. I'm like, they're not going to let her get on this if they think it's dangerous at all. And we got, she passed all them. We got to the front. And like I was like pretty nervous. And Carter saw it come in and was like, never mind. But she went on it like four months later. I'm just fine. The last time I went on a roller coaster was at California, great adventure, a Disney's park there. And I think I threw up after I got so nauseous. motion sickness. How do you always? Um, yeah. It's obviously like I'm, I mean, I have any, I, I avoid ubers at all costs. If I take them, they're like very short, like in the neighborhood. But like I get so car sick and it's, even when I was pregnant, it was so, so bad. And I have barely been in a new, I've been in very few ubers since, since giving birth. But, uh, like, ones that like went far. That's like one of, and when I'm in LA, now I refuse to not run to car because I mean, I can't be in ubers all the time. So yeah, I don't like the birds either, but they get better the further you get away from giving birth, because I think your hormones are just so high. Yeah. But, um, Tesla is getting canceled. That's like, I can't get in a Tesla. I get so sick every time I'm in the backseat at the Tesla. Um, and I can even get sick in the passenger seat sometimes in a Tesla. Um, but I have to be in ubers all the time. But I remember when I was pregnant, especially living in New York, where I had to Uber a lot, especially in Brooklyn, because there's not like, yeah, public transportation is not as comprehensive. It's harder. Yeah. Um, and I felt like I sweat every single time I got in one, because I was like trying not to throw up. I have to have the windows open. Doesn't matter how cold it is. Actually, when it's cold, it feels down, it feels amazing when you're trying not to throw up. Also, I wish that Uber drivers were like barred from wearing cologne. It's just like, I haven't really also, I think, a very sensitive sense of smell. And it's one of my least favorite things about getting in a new words. Like you just don't know what smells your being confronted with. I have goosebumps right now because I got into an Uber when I was in Newark last week. And it smelled like feet, like actual feet. Like I'm like, does he have his shoes off? Like there's no way the last people left their feet stench behind. My god, this disgusting. Oh god. I know. And I had a stomach ache. So I got in and was just like, Oh, okay, this is bad all around. Let's quickly check in on age of attraction episodes, seven and eight. It's almost like going on the show was a bad idea for most of these people, hard to believe, isn't it? Well, I wonder I want to know like if they have a reunion, which I don't know if they will or not can't imagine Nika Natalie at a reunion. I think they would do better at a reunion than like hosting a show because it's more similar to a podcast. Natalie seems so uncomfortable. I don't know. I don't know. Who knows what was going on? She at the dinner on the at the end of the most recent episode. Uh-huh. It felt like she was like reading a script and they were telling her like how to talk. It was very like robotic and weird. It's very similar to like those ultimatum dinners. Well, yeah, she's it's it's not great. Which couple like were you the most like oh this is really bad while you were while we were you're watching these ones? None of them are good. I was sort of the most upset by Chris and Leah because I'm just like this has nothing to do with your age difference like you're just not a match like like she wants to be together all the time and he does not. And so then like the funny thing about that is she won't be home a lot because she's a fighter tenant but I'm like that's just not a match. So it says nothing to do with age. It's just like you guys don't want the same kind of relationship. So just wrap it up. Yeah, I think she's like a little annoying. Yeah, she's playing. She's a stage five cleaner. And he's like pretty laid back. So like those don't mix well at all. Um, I like his mom. She was nice. Honestly, a lot of the parents were great. Yeah. Um, like I was shocked by Fyfer's parents. Yeah, they were like a lot more accepting than I was expecting. Although way more. I did think that I do think that does him's Derek, right? Like he's a pretty good guy. So yeah, he seems super normal and like even him being like do you want to go talk to me to the dad? Like I feel like that's a nice thing to do. Um, and I mean by the end of it, they don't seem very happy but well up until that point, it seemed like they were like communicating very well and I don't know. We talked about how he was talking about how to introduce her to his kids and it seems like he's like pretty thoughtful. So I was just, I mean, the dad was just like I've never seen Piper act like this. I communicate like the Piper. She's like the piece still. It looks like, I know, it looks like Piper. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and like I do trust her. I was just like that's really sweet. Well, when she tells his sister like, you know, but when I move to Texas, like I really want to find my people and like find my own self. Like she clearly is not just trying to like, lawnmond his life. It seems like she does like him and like wants to try to build something. So I like her. Yeah. I like her too. I like both of them. Even when she was crying and she was like, I'm the one that has to give up like what I've worked for and my friends. Um, and him not really understanding that was like, I know. It's pretty like understandable. Yeah. I do think that like eight, we talked about this a million times. As you get older, age differences matter less and less, but like just dating someone in their 20s, like you have so much exploration to do. Like, yeah. I mean, the other couple that I found really upsetting was Libby and I forget the name of the guy, but the 22 year old woman. Yeah. Like he obviously got a lot of second thoughts after seeing his friends. And well, I mean, his friends were like, this is a joke. I mean, she, well, with all due respect, she's 22. It is a joke. Like she's a very, she's a very young 22 compared to Piper who's 23. Like Libby seems like she graduated from high school yesterday or the Piper is like so self-possessed, much more mature, has more life experience. Libby is like real, I'm like, is she lying about her age because she seems so young? I agree. Also like, I mean, Derek's sister was like asking her about, um, like meeting the kids and she was like, I've never dated anyone with kids, but like I have my experience from my parents and like the way that she communicated all of that and like her thoughts about it, um, was like pretty eloquent for a 23 year old. Yeah. And or in general for any age, but like, especially for a 23 year old. And then, um, I don't know the guy, the 38 year olds friends were just like, his name is Andrew. I've just looked at that. Oh, Andrew. Okay. Like Andrew's friends like asked for the most simple question and they were like, she was just like, two thumbs up there. So yeah. And it's just the completely opposite. Yes. It was really. And then his friends being like, yeah, he's got a type blonde and 22 to 25. I was just like, okay, so he's also not ready to like have a relationship. So this is a, this is the no. The thing that he said that I actually found the most concerning though was he was like, you know, my daughters are 12 and 14. So like, I don't have to do as much parenting. And I'm like, um, I would say like maybe you don't have to like parenting be with them every second. But yeah, like they're going to require a lot of attention for the next, you know, eight years, at least their special daughters. Yeah. Which when he said it, his friends were like, uh, I know, at least I didn't agree. That's friend was like, what are you talking about? At least he's got some good voices of reason in his life. that was reassuring. - I also thought his friends were completely nice to her. Like they weren't rude at all, but right when they had him by themselves, they were like, "What are you doing?" And on the flip side, Libby's friends were like, "Stepmom Libby, I'm sorry, you're not ready for this." - Also how she was like, "Yeah, I just wanna be more of like a big sister. "I'm not here to be a stepmom." And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how I came up. - Our friend was like, "You're not going to be "a big sister though. "You're going to be a stepmom." I thought her friends were like, were pretty like honest and then just like buy into whatever. - Yeah. - They were also super young though. The one wearing a headband, I was like, "Did you just come here from Claire's?" - Like, it was shockingly, I thought that Teresa's children were like, on the, they accepted it more than most of the other like family. I didn't surprise me that much. I mean, 'cause they're adults, right? So, you know, in some ways it doesn't affect them as much. Like, they don't have to, they're not gonna have like this stepdad and they can like disapprove of their mom dating this 27 year old. But they don't have to necessarily spend time with him in the same way that like 12 year old would be forced to. - Yeah, I also was thinking, 'cause Teresa was like, if like I get judged harsher than a man, it'd be way more acceptable. And I was thinking to myself, like, yes, I think in public, you would be judged harsher than a man would be. But with your kids, I feel like you're probably judged less. Like her saying that like, I don't want you guys to see me hurt again, did it it it it whatever. It seems like she might have a co-parent, but she definitely was the main parent with them. And the way that her kids were talking, I'm like, you they know, and it seems that they know dedicated a big chunk of your life to making sure that they are okay. And your life took a back seat. So while obviously they probably wouldn't want you [BLANK_AUDIO] 27 year old. I think all of them are like we really want our mom to find something that makes her happy. Whereas if it was their dad showing up with 22 year old, they'd probably like this is a joke. Yeah. Yeah, it's just they're 27 year old. They seemed way more like trustful like trusting of her. Like you're interested in also he's not like he's not the only one. He's not Libby. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I actually like him. And she was so serious for me, but yes, he seems like a pretty good guy. I mean, yes, I like him for this experiment. Yeah, agreed. And she was just so much more nervous than he was. And the other thing she just she presents much younger than 54, you know what I mean? Like yeah, in some ways, like I would be more embarrassed by like just the fact that she doesn't seem her age than who she's dating. No, no, no, no, not him. I don't think they should be embarrassed with how well, I'd be embarrassed to hear my mom have sex on TV, but I'm not telling them to be embarrassed. I I feel like after watching this show if because like I'm sure they're watching it back, I feel way more comfortable with John seeing how he acts. Yeah, he acts much older than his age. And even before he met her, it seemed like he was into older women. He's fine not having kids like, yeah, they seem like the most likely to actually like have something, but I just don't know if any of them do. I also think his he is letting her take the lead because he has kids. And like he wants to make sure that she's comfortable. But I do like his note of like if you are more confident, people are going to be more confident in us, but you freaking out. Like doesn't help anything. It's true. Also, I get why his sister was so concerned. She was like, why wouldn't she let you tell us her age? Like, yeah, I get why that's concerning. Also, I, you know, again, like I think his sister made some good points. Like he is only 27. And so he could experience a lot of life still, but it doesn't seem like he would be hampered by being in a relationship with Teresa the way that like Libby would be hampered by be like, okay, now I'm a big sister/step mom. Like he does have, he has a lot more maturity. So it's not impossible to believe. Yeah, even like when when Libby and Andrew were talking at one point, I don't think this was like the last dump of episodes, but he was like, you know, sometimes I'm going to be with my kids. And she's like, yeah, like you do your thing and I do my thing. And like, I'm going to hang with my friends. And I was just like, this is, this is not going anywhere. No, definitely not. Logan and Vanessa. They're done. They shouldn't. Why are they selling the show? They were going to break up in the first five minutes when she's crying and talking to the camera. And then they like continue to meet each other's family. I was like, why? There's nothing here. No, nothing. He that he does not like her. And she just thinks he's like young and fun. Yeah. And they're just even though they don't like each other. He does not. He definitely does not like her. That's for sure. No, I wonder if they get paid per episode or something because I'm like, what is he, what is he hanging on for? The last, oh, the last thing I wanted to say on this is the interaction between Teresa and Leah at the dinner. Yeah, at the very end. Leah, why do you care what she's doing? Leah's just sort of off. There's nothing to worry about her. I'm like, why are you, why do you have such a big opinion on whether she told her children or not? Also, I think it's not great whenever someone doesn't have kids and the person who has kids, or like, do you have kids? Because like, you don't know if Leah ever wanted kids or whatever. But watching that scene, I would have been like, why are you giving me advice on what to do with my three children and you have none? And you have no stake in this game. Totally. Also, Teresa is not only older than her than John. She's also older than Leah. Like I just honestly, there's like more perspective that comes on the topic over time. I do think that like watching it back, I would be more confident in my relationship if I really thought it was going to be something, which I think Teresa does at this time. I think she should have been more confident. But I kind of understand her thought process with the kids. Yeah, she's also just sort of like, I get the impression that every second, she's like, I can't believe this is happening. Like she just seems like she's so much disbelief. I think she really likes him and is just like, she'll like forget about his age and then be like suddenly snacked with like, what? It's like when you're sleeping and you like it jolted away with a thought. Yeah, she's like sleepwalking through and having a good time. And then she's like, oh, shit, I'm 27 years older. Yeah. I'm literally double his age. So I feel like in all of these shows, like the first season, it's like, there's like some kings to work out. Like the second season of the show will be more compelling. It's so pretty compelling. But yeah, I also think it's interesting that like a bunch of the couples is thinking about this. How like they just like end up going with people their own, their own age. So like it wasn't interesting. It's sort of funny how people find each other. But I would like to know if there's a reunion or if there's like a recap at the end of the last episode, like, can you let us know? Like the status of the couple. Yeah. Let us know what's up. That's not usually Netflix's style, but who knows? Um, yeah. Callie, you're watching Ladies of London. I just started because I got some clips on TikTok that um, well, I've wanted to start. I've talked to Rachel about it a few times. I'm morally crap because we both are interested. Um, but I saw some clips on TikTok about one of the ladies supposedly being a madame madame madame madame madame madame. You know what? You know why that's the US graduate that lady. Definitely a madame. That just confirmed it. If I was unsure before, I know now. But that's making me want to watch the show. It is sensational. It's really good casting. Honestly, last day I was like, we're seeing episode I didn't realize it's on Thursday. Um, I can't wait to watch it tonight. It's so good. Okay. Well, I'll probably catch up by next, uh, our next next episode. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, everybody. We'll be back on Sunday night with Rachel Lindsay. Thank you to our producer Olivia Creary. Um, no thank you to Christian and hope you have a great weekend.