The End of an Era

[Music] Hey everybody! Welcome back to Lift Off. I'm Tony Dosa. And I'm Peter Klaiman. Peter, as we sit here together, we have noticed, but no one else has noticed yet, unless they, like, look at the title, that this is. There's no guest on this episode. It's you and me. Sure is. Lots to discuss today. Yeah, it's just us. [Laughter] And now everyone has stopped listening, because nobody cares. It's not true. Maybe they're tuning in more. You never know. These are the odd parts about podcasting, unless you physically write a review. We have absolutely no way of knowing. That's true. So write some reviews. You know, I haven't actually checked those in a while. I wonder if I should check them. Yeah, we've probably checked them. I admit that I also haven't checked them in a while. They're really scared. Well, we'll see if there's any to read together during today. Okay, so in a quick search, I will say this. People do not write reviews to us. [Laughter] Which I'm not heartbroken over. But they have left ratings, and look at this. I think there's one vote for three stars, which, listen, I will send you some, like, a nice card. How might we get two more stars out of you? But everybody else is five stars. 60 ratings? That's pretty good. Hey, you done good. Yeah, you know, you brought me on as co-host and tried to do my part. That's right. So let's talk some stats about this podcast really quick. For those that joined us as lift-off, you might not know this, but I actually started a podcast outside of work goodness, three years ago, like, 18. What is that 2019? January 20th. January 20th. In the heart of it. Okay. But it was before. No, no, yeah, so before. So it had to be like, 2018, right? 19. March of 2020 was when we. Oh, okay. So it was a year before that. It was in Italy, and in China. Yeah. So they say it was actually earlier than this, which is wild, but that's not what we're supposed to talk about today. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, that's interesting too. But, yes, January 2019, that's correct. I started a podcast by myself about design, what nots. And I did that for 78 episodes. And I wanted to stop it all. And my wife was like, why would you do that? And I was like, what's the thing now? Bring it in house to ballerocket. I was like, oh my gosh, it's so smart. So I approached you. I approached Jana, who's our producer, and who's head of marketing. And we're like, let's brand this thing. Let's bring on a co-host. And let's broaden outside of design into all the things that we do and all the things that folks might be caring about. And there we've done 43 episodes so far. It's wild. And so we've had some really interesting conversations. Yeah, we really have. I would agree. That's 121, now this being 122, podcast episodes that I've now done. And that is to say, there's an announcement. Yeah, why else would we bring up the stats if there was not an announcement? But before we get to the announcement, Tony, of those last 44, 43 specifically, what statement do you remember that you use the most in conversations with other people? Out of the 43 or out of all of them? Out of 43. The one that hit me the hardest I can go with that. Yeah, hit that one. Okay. And I'm not sure if it's enough. And perhaps it all goes together. But we had on the last episode was Will Coleman and Jonathan Campos from Alto. And Will said a quote that he was quoting somebody else. It's like famous. But the long and short of it is it is a lot easier to get over failure than it is regret. And you might some might never get over regret. But most can get over failure. And that even to recording, it hit me like a ton of bricks. That was a good one. Mine is Simon Severino when he said strategy is the moment in time when you're swimming through the ocean and you've swam so long and you stick your head up to see where you are and orient yourself against the shore. I use that one like every other week. Oh, really? That was a really good one. Yeah, that was really. It implies that you can't always be strategic or you'll never get anywhere. Well, isn't that true? Yeah. Before the Lift Off days, another quote that was quoted was seek to understand before being understood. I used that probably in every client-facing meeting I've ever had. Like when it's in the discovery phase. Yeah. I love that one. So, that is to say, part of the stats, part of looking back and what also hit me so hard about that quote, leads me to saying that this is actually my last episode with Lift Off as a co-host and founding a host. Yeah. And don't freak out everybody. It's not like we're not going to replace Tony with someone who is lively, fun, energetic, human centric. Man sexy. And sexy, yeah. There you go. I mean, this is a podcast. So, I'm not sure everybody gets that the same way as you and I would have every video on. We'll record these. But still, I'll give it to you. Yeah. That's going to be number one when you think of replacing them. Well, and of course that announcement goes into that, honestly, sadly, and I'm not just saying sadly, but sadly, I am also exiting bottle rocket. And part of the exit from bottle rocket and leaving bottle rocket was leaving the podcast, of course. It is not a decision that I made easily. In fact, it was grueling. And I lost sleep over it. But I have a new opportunity that is sort of a natural progression and trajectory for where my ultimate goals are in life. So, that's the next step. I'm excited about it. Don't want to belabor it because, you know, I'm going to miss you guys. Now, we're going to miss you. That, now that we've covered that, Peter, let's update each other on each other's summers. We're wrapping the season at the end of the summer. What perfect timing. Wow. So, you guys are probably going to come back at the beginning of the new year, potentially, you know, do some planning, do some content, planning, recording, come in the last episode of this season. We'll come in next season. New co-host. Yeah. Or at least guest co-host to start. Yeah. Good. Professionally. And personally. Okay. Okay. Let's start with professionally. How was Peter's summer? My professional summer was great. I think that, I'm starting to really unlock. There's always that list of things that you keep in your notebook that you never really get to. Right? That's really important. But you don't always somehow the urgency of now is that it distracts you from those big thorny challenges that require a lot of coordination with a lot of different people to work towards. I feel like I've achieved some of those this year. And it's only excited this summer in particular. And it's only excited me more to like take more of those down. So I'm feeling like I'm forming new partnerships with a lot of people within our organization to help drive change, operationalizing big shifts and how we go to market and how botterocket is a whole lot of services we provide for clients and how we ensure that we're remaining. And that's like standard, right? That's part of any business that grows and changes. If you're not changing, then you're not. You're going to be staying the same and you're going to have an eroding market share. Really feeling things are falling into queue. And I leave like six days for a two-week vacation in Italy. So I'm excited to kind of put a cap on my summer. Take some time. I have a David McCullough book about Seattle Roosevelt. I'm going to read that. Very excited. So professionally, very good summer. I feel like I broke through a wall. And I personally always hold myself to this standard professionally, which is I can remember a time that I was put in the client room way back when I first graduated college and expected to lead some slides. And I freaked out. I kept for like three days to do that. Two slides. It was nothing, right? It was two slides. But I really was like, couldn't sleep the night before. And I remember kind of all of these major milestones in my professional career. Now, I don't know if the physiology would support this, but my belief is that when exposed to stress scenarios on multiple equations, eventually the stress becomes lesser. And I think that's probably true, right? Like you see experience. Sure. Like folks who have been in the army who are experienced in encountering gunfire versus civilians, like very different reactions. You know, I feel that same way professionally that I try to hold myself to a situation of what was scary when I started this year that isn't scary anymore. And if I don't have any answers to that, I don't think I'm pushing myself hard enough. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I feel like I've overcome some of those things that were so unachievable have become operationalized in normal in the span of last three months. You know what's really interesting to me is is that you are the type of person that if I had to pick five people that I wanted in the room with the clients in I would pick you all day long. Oh, thank you. I'd also pick you. I feel like that's the joy of lift off, right? We balance each other really well. And we do this with clients as well. But I would never have thought that you would have been someone that was fearful of a scenario like that early on. I mean, I have an acting background but it's like, of course, I, in the, get me in the room. You know what I mean? But that's really interesting. Wow, you've come a long way. Holy crap. I like things that I fear. I mean, that's epitomized by my hobbies too, right? Like rock climbing and adventure sports and off-roading. Yeah. If my adrenaline and dopamine aren't being released, very large increments, I'm probably not having fun. But then I also love gardening. So I don't understand how that one fits in the middle. Oh, well, there could be a snake in the grass. And not in college. Yeah. Oh, no snakes in Colorado. Well, there are. There are rattlesnakes, but like not in my backyard. Yeah. Well, professional summer Tony for you. Well, I do think that it was a ton of things that was a time of a lot of reflection and growth. Obviously with what I already mentioned, that is an amalgamation of the sort of end of an era of growth here. And I will say that even though I am strong in client rooms and stuff, there was still an intimate -- I was never fearful, but I was intimidated by powerful positions, like positions of power, like sea suite in these rooms. And I will tell you, this is outside of summer, of course. But when we went full remote, all of that intimidation went completely away. We had -- One box on the screen. A box on the screen with like a kid walking by or a cat jumping in somebody's face, whatever it was, and it really humanized everyone. Because at the end of the day, that's all that we are. We aren't our titles. We aren't the positions we hold. We aren't even the impact we have on businesses. We are human beings on this rock. And that just freed me of feeling intimidated by someone's title. You know, I do. Now, how about personally? Personally. It's funny because I almost wonder if we had the inverse. I think I had a very reflective summer. So personally, I haven't been -- I have -- So, a little background on me. One of two degrees in college was civil engineering, and I was in the environmental engineering practice. We had to do a senior thesis. And my senior thesis was on scalable and sustainable agricultural greenhouses that you could build in sequence, all powered via solar to drive the production of food and protein. Now, of course, there are still inputs in the system. Right. You have to feed the fish something, and we have any -- But I think that black soldier fly larva could be the fix to that. But that wasn't around when I graduated college. So, either way, my whole senior year, a super senior year of college, I had a greenhouse in my college apartment. And like the cops came once because they thought I was growing weed in my thing. And I was like, "No, guys, it's just tomatoes." Like, this is my proof of concept before I do my senior -- senior engineering thesis. But it had grow lights, and it flooded my roommates room three times, and you wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and I would slip on the ground and yell at me and I have to go clean it up. Oh, it was great. It was great. But since then, I haven't had a chance to garden. Last two seasons, I've gardened, and I've really dialed it in. I mean, this is like automated watering, compost tea. I'm looking at soil composition, microbes, and running soil tests. So, really productive garden, which is like my very zen place. I think relationship-wise, it's been a great summer for my wife and I to kind of really understand what we want, what's next, right? I feel like COVID was a moment of great reflection that was forced upon us. And we kind of took this summer as a second moment of great reflection to be like, "Okay, five years from now, what's important to us?" Right? We're passionate about not having children. That's a choice we're making. And so that unlocks a lot of possibilities for us. What do we want that to look like? And I think we took this summer to really think about that, get some concrete plans. Nothing that I'm going to talk about too widely, because they haven't materialized yet. But kind of the formation starting point of that. So reflective, and also rewarding to see all this, you know, I'm the type of guy that'll be watching a three-hour YouTube lecture from like the University of Nebraska Agro Science Department about how integrations of certain inocularized cover crops can speed nitrogen fixation and soil-bike bacteria communities. I'm into stuff like that. So seeing it come to life, and I was actually just this morning harvesting egg plants to put them in the dryer. We have like a dehydrator. Really feels good. So I'm feeling kind of balanced coming out of this summer. And prepared for change. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. You? Well, when I look at COVID, I still feel like I got, I came out of that really good, really well. I didn't lose anyone close to me. I didn't even get it. That's how boring I am, Peter. That's how little I do. I just got it like two months ago. So I feel you. So I never got it. My wife got it. My kids didn't get it as far as I know there. I even got the, you know, antibody, whatever, antigen. I'm not going to sound like a scientist, but. And, but I resent COVID because I feel like it stole time away from me being present. Being present with my kids at a young, like three, four year old age. That is to say, top of mind was COVID not getting sick. We moved right the day of shutdown. We signed our closing contract and moved. We went remote. So we were both working from home. The kids didn't have school. We were in a new place. We were doing construction. And without COVID, I think the other stress elements would have been more manageable. But it compounded everything. And I feel like I wasn't not stressed for two years. And I feel like it, it like it stole a lot of my memories of that time. Because it's all, it's, it's a blur. It's a total blur to me. Those year and a half, two years. Now that being said, that is why at the start of this summer, I said, "Eff it, I'm buying a pontoon boat." And we're going to create some experiences and memories out here on the lake right by the house. And I'm not like some 1% or I got like bottom of the barrel pontoon folks. Okay. So, but I said, and everyone's like, but you know, the maintenance and everyone says the best days of the first day they get it and they sell it. And I literally was like, "Eff it, I'm getting a boat." That's exactly what you told me when I was like, "Are you sure you're buying a boat?" I am buying a boat. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm doing this. Has it worked? Yes. Like have you enjoyed it? I have enjoyed it. There's things I didn't realize about like wind and it being miserably hot and spiders loving the wet slip dock. But the days that we've gone out, I've gone out maybe 18 times this summer. Wow, that's a lot. A lot. And sometimes just for an hour. Maybe a dozen times. Maybe I overshot. Okay. But still. Still a lot. I mean, it's more than once a weekend. Yes. It's great. I'm going to sell it. You are? It depends on if we do a pool or not. I don't know. You know, we're talking. So this is all, that's all the end of summer. It was a great summer. You're a boat owner for a summer. That fits your aesthetic like it. It does. Yeah. Because if and less people, maybe people don't know, but we're mind everyone. This is the fifth house we've moved into. Your wife's a real estate agent. It's different. It's true. Yeah. Speaking of which, if you are moving to the Dallas, Fort Worth area, need a real estate agent. Oh. It's funny, Tony, because I feel like my experience with COVID was the exact same experience you had with COVID. Except the stress of that experience was the best thing ever for me. Oh. Right. It didn't feel like a blur because it felt like it forced us to make really long term important decisions that fundamentally change the trajectory of our lives. I like how many times do you have that? Like think about your life. How many times have you had moments in time that fundamentally change its trajectory? Not many. I do. And I will say that people, everyone is different, granted. Totally. I will never work a nine to five that I have to drive to in an office ever again. Like this is the, if you're going to work a nine to five and you have the opportunity to work a nine to five, remote is the way to do it. In my opinion, you know, if there are people that we know that go to the office every day, every day, and they try. Yeah, they thrive. I used to have nightmares, other great sorting of people, right? Like those who work best in office environments and those who enjoy remote work. Or those who like to live a hybrid world. Yeah. But I used to have nightmares about getting in a car wreck. That makes that guy. It's a lot of big highways between your house and I know. No. At any rate. But, you know, obviously, if you're in the service industry, if you're in, in more of the blue collar, you know, getting your hands dirty industry, you don't have the opportunity for work to work from home. You know, you have to go on site. And it's the whole thing's been just crazy. And pros and cons pros and cons, but a lot of you said something earlier. And I want to unpack this right because I have had a chance to talk to you about this. But you mentioned your long term goal. So I know you're leaving. Really sorry to see you leaving. Totally get it though, right? It's a good opportunity. It gets you closer to that goal. I think it will come as a surprise to our listeners of what that goal is. So tell us more about what your long term goal is. Okay. Well, when I, when I was a kid, I wanted to be an actor and I went to college for acting and I did acting professionally for a little bit. And then I pivoted to design. But in that, I also distinctly remember on road trips, I would be drawing out the floor plan for a coffee shop. 12 years old, I was doing this. Well, graph paper drawing it out. What freaking 12 year old? Did you even drink coffee as a 12 year old? My first coffee was when I was seven. And it was a majority of milk and sugar. It was like a splash of coffee. It was just a taste coffee. It wasn't my grandfather's house. I'll never forget it. It was in B.ville, Texas. And my mom was like, do you want to try it? I was like, sure. Not a seven year old didn't be like, no, sure, or mother. And I remember, and I remember distinctly. I tried a little sip and I was like, eh, she goes to a can. And she goes, oh, can't let me fix it better. Put like a ton of milk in, put like 17 scoops of sugar. And I tasted it again. I didn't drink the whole thing. I had like three sips. But it was delicious because it was like sugar milk with the splash of coffee flavor. So then I worked, well, to sort of pay rent, et cetera, when trying to be an actor, I worked as a barista. And then when I first moved to LA after Manhattan, I was a barista. I was like, what's up? But of course the context of life influences how you experience every day. However, when I was a barista, I was at my occupational happiest. Now, is that because my stress levels were lower? I don't know. I mean, I was in a tremendous amount of debt and I had crazy rent and didn't know really what I was going to do with my life. But there's something about the physical activity and motion of making and preparing beverages, coffee beverages. That's something about it. Kimically in me, I like a lot. Which is funny because you just said, if you're going to work a nine to five, you're going to do it at home. Now you're saying, but my long term aspiration is to own a coffee shop. But so, but that's the difference is if I'm going to work a nine to five. Yeah, and that is to say, my next gig is a nine to five. So my next gig has nothing to do with coffee. And listen, the goal post of having a coffee shop one day might be, I mean, I'd like it to be before I'm, you know, really old. My kids are out of the house. But who at the end of the day, who knows when it's going to be? But my eye is on that prize one day. So that's the, that's like the ultimate goal, goal, goal, you know, is it realistic? I don't know. I think it's real. I'm going to approach it like it is. You always are service first. It seems like a good place for you. Yeah, guess we'll see. Yeah. First, I got to do a bang up job at the new place, the new gig. And then we'll take it from there, you know? Yeah. Yeah. My wife's doing a real estate. Kids are 11 school. Okay. Well, I'm going to do a lightning round, but I'm going to make up my own rules because I can't. So I'm going, I'm not a host anymore. So you can do whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I'm going to say you don't have to answer with one word, right? Oh, can I though? If you want to. Okay. Okay. What's your scariest moment in your bottle rocket career? Project one, the first project. I'd never worked at a consulting group or agency before. That was, it's wildly different than working in house. And I was second seat, you know, to a lead that was on. And I was like, the FMI doing, I everyone's going to find out that I'm a total fraud. Yeah. So I would say, but in the word, like day one, project one. Good answer. Okay. Next would be one of your most rewarding. It's hard to always say most, right? So we'll just put it as one of your most rewarding. Yeah. I was actually asked this today and I won on one with one of my direct reports in my final one on one with them. And, or at least a similar question. And I got to tell you, we had her on as a guest. Her name is Gail. Working with Gail on the client partner side was, she's just so incredible. She was great to like riff with, you know, sometimes clients like riffing, sometimes. They're less receptive to riffing and she's, she's a blue sky, but tactical. I loved working with her. If I could, if I, if I had to do a different rewarding answer, I will take that. That's a perfect rewarding answer. Yeah, that's excellent. Okay. Last one's going to get you though, right? What is one skill that you gained while working here that is entirely unexpected? Something you didn't expect to learn as a result of your time at ball rocket. Hmm. That is a great question. I would say probably something like client relationship building or something along those lines of collaborating outside of your business entity. And again, that kind of goes back to the other one. I've never worked in an agency or consulting before. But did you think you'd learn that working in an agency? Right, isn't that a little bit of a, that's a great point. Yeah, you're right. I mean, they can explain but like allocations and, and budget. I never thought I'd do that, but that's lame. I was expecting something, I want something heavy here. Yeah, but I didn't expect, you know what? Honestly, I would say it's a little bit broader. It's not, it's not pinpointing a skill. I genuinely did not expect and I hope this doesn't sound like I'm tooting my own horn. I did not expect to grow as much as I did. And I can see it. I mean, you and I grew together. I'm a tremendous amount. Yeah, oh, yeah. I mean, think about the OG consulting project we worked on together. Pre-pandemic. Yeah. Years ago now. And I did not expect three years. I did not expect it. And I didn't expect to be so ingrained and emotionally attached. Yeah. And I really do, you know, I feel like I'm very emotionally involved with ballerocken. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, final question, right? This is a question we ask all of our guests. Oh, what's that? Yeah. Question you invented that, oh, the sweet irony of me having to read it back to you to the point where I don't have to read it on a page with piece of paper anymore because I've remembered it. And that is what non-digital object or thing that you own or possess means the most to you or has impacted your life the most and why. You know, I've given the answer once before because I asked the guest, I asked Jacob Cass when I was first to in the podcast and he's like, what about you? And then Will Coleman of the last episode said the same thing, which is my wedding ring. However, I'd like to change it or I'd like to add another one because it's been covered and I've said it. So I'd like to be able to have the opportunity to say another one. So I must think of one now. Oh, perfect. Um, 2015, 2015. Um, I came home from work and my wife was like, hey, I got you something. And it was like a small box. I was like, oh, what's this? You got me something. Oh, great. This is nice. I didn't expect this. Wow. And I opened it and it was little shoes. And I was like, what is this? And I knew what it was. But I thought it was going to be like a kutramar or something because I like bracelets and necklaces and stuff. So I was kind of like, I know what this means. And I also, it wasn't computing also at the same time. Yeah. Um, so those, you know, little pair of shoes, which then became, you know, my first child. Yeah. Wow. Well, I want to thank you. You know, we talked about ways to grow and inviting me as your co-host on to lift off has been a way for me to grow as well. Really enjoyed. I knew you very well beforehand, but I know you differently now. And I've gotten to meet so many cool and unique people with you. And I'm really going to miss you. I'm very happy for you, right? Like I am so glad you're kind of taking this next step. Of course, I always want you to stay, right? But I also recognize kind of half decade here and you're onto your next half decade increment. But I miss you and I appreciate you bringing me on well for all of our lift off listeners. We are not done. We're going to bring on some great folks next season in 2023 and continue doing more things. And if you want to hear different things, leave us a review as we've. And of course, this episode that we have no one has left us reviews. So if you want to hear different things, you'll have a lot of impact because you'll be the only one who's given a review. Well, and I will say thank you, Peter. I've enjoyed getting to know you working with you. And I know when I brought it in House to Pottle Rocket, I didn't have anybody else in mind. I said, oh, it's Peter. It's got to be Peter. And thank you, think bottle rocket. And think the listeners of this podcast, if you would like to do me any favors as a listener, as a, as a, as a farewell gift to this podcast, keep listening, keep tuning in. And see how this thing grows and evolves. I think my sign off for every episode before liftoff was stay curious. And I think that that is the way that I would hope that everyone would keep staying curious and tuning in. So thank you, everybody. Peace. Okay. Damn, man. Does it feel like the end of an era? Yes.