The Email From Hai | "A Long Road Home" with Vien Hong (505)

[music] On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season 5, episode 5, a long road home. The piercings confront long-held truths as Kate reckons with a painful chapter from her past. Kevin and Madison face growing uncertainty about their future, and Randall is shaken. By new information about his birth mother that challenges everything he thought he knew. It's juicy. It's a good one. It's juicy. How you guys doing? You're doing good. This is our first meeting post holidays. Yeah, it is. It is. Was there a Canadian tux like memo? We were hoping that you were in the devil's denim. This is Quince y'all. Of course, you're a Quince. Quince, Quince. Also, Sully and I did a little dosido. You did? We switched chairs right now. We switched chairs just to get a shake up. I knew you were new chairs. Keeping people on their toes. I'm not mad at that. Just for today. You guys look good. You always look good. I was like, everybody feels rested. I can walk. I'm into the hair. What's the hair? I like the haircut. The hawk is sort of like the go-to non-working cut. That's your look. This has become like the status quo. And then as the job comes, you can grow it out. Because there's already a little bit of length, so if there needs to be longer, I already got to go. When can you start the next season? I'm not supposed to start season three of paradise until. Well, I don't know if we've been officially picked up, but. But you know the end of March. So we'll go end of March into mid-August. There's not many people sitting at the Golden Globe Awards wondering if they're going to get picked up next year. Okay, so check this out. Let me tell you something. This is the first time we've seen each other since the Globes or whatnot. Guys, this was my first time at the Globes on the ground floor. Wait, explain to people, right? There's just a higher arc. Movies, movie stars get to sit on the ground and all the TV people get put on the back. They're relegated to the back. Yeah, it's a little surrounding zone. So I'm wondering why, right? That's the question. Because you had to me award nominees Sterling K-Brown. Correct? Sure. But like, so it was just me, the tough thing is it was just me from the show. Because the past few awards, whether it was Critics' Choice or the Emmys. The Emmys, it was me, Julianne, and James, and the show, right? And then at the Crit's Choice, it was me and the show. And then at the Golden Globes, it was Brown. So it's always an honor to be there. But when you get to be there with your people, it's even more fun. It makes it different. Of course, that being said, sitting on the ground is cool. Who is that your table? Guys, who is that your table? Yeah. Smiley Cyrus and her twin also known as her mom. Got it. I looked at her mom and she said, "I'm Molly's mom." Oh, of course you are. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's like these eyes are like, are you anyway? Steven Marty, we're there from. That's pretty rare. Steven Marty. Steven Martin. Steven Martin. And Martin Short. There you go. But here's that your table. I also at the Emmys. Step right next to Steven Marty. Did you speak with them? We speak. So Marty speaks. Yes. Marty is quiet. Steve is very quiet. Steve is very quiet. Marty is the opposite of very quiet. Yes. Like he is the most effusive, abulliant, like, crazily wonderful. Yeah. And it's Steve is just like. Built for show business. Maybe one of the funniest people ever. Which one do you think? Marty. Marty Short. Yeah, I'm not sure. Oh my god. Inherently, not stand-up comedy. Not inherently funny. Yeah, just like his essence has been. Just their lungs. So we're there, me and the bird. And so here's the other part, it was cool. Table behind me. It's friggin' heartily in Sofia. Yes. Yay. Because he was presenting there. So we got a chance to see each other on the ground floor. But like waiting in line to go in, there's a football game on. And I was trying to watch the football. So I'm literally on the carpet, Mandy. Watching football. Watching football. Priorities. You gotta get my priorities. But then the sandman comes up behind me. He's like, "Hey, man, what you doing?" Oh, you know, where you at was just going again, right? He's checking our shoulder. Kevin Bacon's like, "Gip grabs my head and has me turn the phone to him." He's like, "All right, cool." So I had six degrees. No six degrees. No six degrees. Zero degrees. No, no, zero degrees. Right. Zero degrees. You know what I'm saying? I got Rose Burns coming up to me with her brother. Her brother knows a friend of mine from ArmyWires. And we're talking to everything. He's like, "You're really just watching the football game." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm watching the football game." What game? It was San Francisco against Philadelphia. Okay, got it. Philadelphia is the defending Super Bowl champions that wound up losing in an upset to San Francisco 49. Yeah. It was like one of these cool moves. And they did these stairs. You guys hear about the stairs they did this year? No. They tried to echo something from the Met Okay. Where they have this pictures and stairs sort of thing. So you had the photographers on both sides so you take pictures on one side and then you turn and take pictures on the other side and me and the bird. I don't know if you got a chance to see the bird. Did you see the bird? Yeah. The bird wouldn't happen around. She, by the way, she never does. The bird never, but like, this one? This one, like, this was like next to me. This one, I was like, "A bird, you killing this shit." Yeah. Like, she looked so good. I was so proud of her and we had so much fun. It was, it was a good night, right? So that was what's going on there. Foot is healed. I don't have to wear like a boot or anything like that. Just in PT. Just in PT. Like, I can't run or anything like that, but I can walk, I can swim, I can bike. But it's getting better. Have we made any resolutions about our physical activity as we enter our fifth decade? Oh, boy, let me tell you something. Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question. In my 40s, I have agreed, made a agreement with myself that I will no longer leave the ground. Meaning. No ply magic. No jumping. No leaping. But wait, that's very good for you, though. Listen, I get it. But the risk reward for me, it's just my knees. Yeah, and are just so shot. Yeah, I can't risk it. So what's the form of cardio? I mean, a lot of body weight. Yeah. It's just dancing, a lot of dancing, a lot of twerking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of, yeah. Got it, got it, got it. Mostly, it's mostly TikTok based. It's TikTok based cardio. I feel that. Do you walk? I've been, so all I can do is walk, really, for like good cardio and try to do it at an incline. And I tell you, I feel the posterior chain. Oh, yeah, it's supported. There's lifting that's happening with just walking. And it's hard, too, because I can't walk as fast as I normally do. So, you know, it's all good. I did two days at Disneyland, so I got my cardio for the moment. Oh, wow. That's a ton. You got all your steps in. Are you doing a mountain this year? I would like to have this one. You have one in your mind, right? I mean, I've tried to do Rainier a couple times, and weather has always, you know, prevented me from doing so. So, that's like, I have my fingers crossed, that that's maybe more of a possibility this year. Tell me how shooting your show is going right, Neil. It's going very well. I was just telling Sully that I know I haven't shot in the last week or so, but I'm back next week. It's great. I'm going to come visit you on the show. Come visit, come. Come visit next week. Come very exciting. You should come to Sully. You guys said it's such a nice vibe. The vibe has improved. Okay, that's it. That's it. But shall we talk about the show? The collective has, yes. Yes, it's like five, over five. Episode five, it's a heavy one. A lot of things that I didn't remember. Like I remembered Kate's storyline, pretty, pretty vividly. Yes. But there was a couple of things that happened with the brothers that touched me in a very sort of sweet way that I had forgot. Like, you know, as we transitioned from five or five to five or six, right? But I feel like we should start with Kate because that's the-- It's right where we ended in the last episode. Yeah. Is Kate and Toby sitting in their dining room. Right. And she's essentially letting Toby know that when she was 18 years old, she had an abortion. Yeah. And the conversation is essentially, I'm sorry that that happened to you. That's awful. Why did it take you so long to talk to me about this? That's the storyline, yeah. You know, she's saying, there was never really any context for it. And he's saying, except for the-- I was trying to get pregnant. We were doing nothing but talking about pregnancy. Right. And so yeah, so he was trying to, Toby's trying to navigate his response to it, or at least meter it so that it is, you know, compassionate and present, but also concerned about how big a role this plays in her mental inner world. A delicate balance, but one that I thought was very thoughtfully achieved because it was like, listen, this is a hard thing that someone has to go through. Yeah. I am your partner in life and have been one for the past four years. It is a little strange that I'm hearing about this for the first time right now, right? Yeah. Without me. And you did, I felt like it was, I was watching. I was like, as an actor, I'm like, can't make it about me, right? Yeah. But I got to also say like, it does feel strange. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a monument life experience. Yeah. And I remember this was, this was one of those scenes where it was like being a new father, yeah, like very recently around the scene made it. so much easier. Okay. To where like I remember I can literally remember the shift of like not being a father and acting and then being a father and acting and like just everything was easier. Yeah. Really? After. Yeah. And like because I understood what it meant for something to be important for the maybe the first time in my life. Truly important. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, oh, okay. And and so this scene as tricky as it was emotionally like just made more sense because of that. I got you. Yeah. So yeah, this happened for both of you during the show. Did you feel any sort of shift, Mandy? Yeah. What articulate? Everything. Everything is different. Yeah. It's like you have a whole new set of tools. Yeah. That you just didn't know were accessible and available to you. Yeah. And colors like all the things, all the cliches. It just like you write everything feels open. It feels more accessible. Things like have a weight to it. It's it's why I think. Yeah, sorry. No, no, it's like why I joke like, oh, when I had Gus, I'm like, can we go back to the beginning of the show now? Because like now I know what it means for real. I'm not just faking it. It's not theoretical. Yeah. Everything became right-sized. Yeah. Stuff that needed to be more important became more important stuff that needed to be less important. Just fell away. Just like everything got evened out. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love I think I agree with you. Yeah. I totally agree with you. It's just it's been a little bit. Of course, a little little longer. So it's nice to hear from you guys. That's good. Okay. She winds up after this conversation and whatnot and you sort of like poking lovingly. So I'm going to be like, I'm still trying to figure out why this happened. Laying down in bed and she goes to the computer and she types in Mark with the sea. McEwen, McHowan, whatever is. I don't even. I was like, I was like, yeah, it may RC. I'm like, I understand, but the MMI was slightly offended by it. Like, I don't want to share initials with this dude. Yeah. Bad news. It's officially an ALM. You are ALM. I am officially. Yes. ALM on my birth certificate. I'm like in life. I got two whims up in this month. Yeah, I don't want to share initials with him. Look, she finds him and turns out conveniently. He's just a hundred miles away. Right. She says, like, you're right. Like, I feel like there's something that I need to do. I don't know what it is. I want to say, but I feel like I need to see him. And I'd really appreciate if you drove me down there. And again, as a husband, like, because earlier you're like, okay, I would like his name. And I would like to go and kill him. Murder him. Right. Murder him. And she's like, I don't need you to do that. And you're like, well, I know it's a joke, but if you do want me to, I can do that. It's not. You can be right. Yeah. And you decide, you just say, like, okay, I'd be happy to go down there with you, you know. State, I feel like we should go to the past before coming back to the press, because it fills in so much context, because what the juxtaposition that the writers, I think, really wonderfully achieved is the solitude of an 18-year-old girl having to do something profound by herself alone, and then having her partner by her side as she confronts him in the present. Because there's juxtapositions of she first goes to the abortion clinic and she's having the conversation with the doctor. And then in the midst of it, she's like, is it going to happen in this room? And like, if she's so alone, the way she's shot, it's like, oh, man, like nobody, everybody's in New York to see Kev's performance and whatnot, you know, the teacher tries to hook you up with the teacher. She's by herself. And like, each shot is her by herself. Until as in the present, she's thinking about going down to San Diego, she decides to pay Mark a visit. And don't let me miss any. In the past, in the past, in the past. And she pops up at his door and he opens and he's like, oh, if it isn't Kate Pearson. And just as charming as he can be. Yeah, he makes her breakfast, you know, like he makes a breakfast for lunch, like all her favorites. Yeah. And he remembered. He remembers. I knew you couldn't stay away. He says, I'm so, ugh. Yeah, I know. How did you, did you know? Oh, did you know? Oh, good. Oh, what are you a mind reader? Good, Mark. Yeah, like a true narcissist. Yeah. And trying to reel her back in. Yeah. And like, what does he say? Like, you know, like, he's that I figured you wanted to come. And what do you say? He said something excited to see you. Yeah. He apologizes for the cabin. He does apologize for the cabin. And kind of figured that she was going to do the same, I believe, that they were both like kind of coming to make amends a little bit, right? And when she kind of like, you see the switch flip, like physically watch it sort of register to him because she's like, I wanted, I actually know, I just wanted to come and talk to you about something. And you're like, oh my gosh, is she going to tell him this news? And like, how is this going to play out? Yeah. Because in my mind, immediately, I'm like, oh, this is a guy who's going to tell her she shouldn't. They should keep it. They should get in a relationship. Like, my mind just started to wander. I was like, wow, I forget how this ended. Yeah. And as he sort of, he then sort of starts to like spiral out. Yeah. Like, he's like, oh, this sounds heavy. Right. Right. She's like it is. And like, he's immediately annoyed. Yeah. And you just yeah, totally, totally, they just like change. Yeah. This guy's good. He doesn't make any makes it about him. Oh, he totally makes it. I was excited when I saw you. And yeah. And now, now we're having some heavy conversation. Like, what do you want to talk about? He decides that he's like, you know what? Why don't we just watch a movie? Just be here. Let's just be here together, like be in the moment or whatever, like we used to. And they're flipping through the channels. Yeah. And he stops on airplane. That's right. Yeah. And she is like, I love this movie. Let's let's watch it. And he he relents and kind of like keeps it. Yeah. And moaps. And they're watching it. And you could just tell he's just so annoyed. He doesn't think it's funny. Yeah. And he's like, oh, I need a drink. I need a drink. Gets up to grab some beers. What have you? She's cracking up having a good time. And then she looks over and it's like, oh, he's this was supposed to be possible, a possible shared experience. Yeah. At least exactly. It's like, I'm sure she in my mind, I'm like, I wonder what she's expecting from this encounter. Yeah. Is she expecting. Do you think she was going to ask him to come with her? I don't know. Was she also just like, before I do this, should I just, should I tell him should it is, are we supposed to be together? Like, I'm sure maybe, maybe there was just a multitude of different emotions, right? Because it's such an incredibly heavy decision. And, um, but she got her answer. Yeah. Because as she's sitting down on the couch and recognizing that like she came here to be alone again, I don't need this shit. Yeah. And she, by the time he comes back, offering to watch some Michelle Gondry videos. Yeah. Because I'm so cool. Yeah. You can eat, you can eat a dick. I like the eternal sunshine, but like, are my so high for looting that I only watch Michelle Gondry music videos. Yeah. Eat my bum. Oh my gosh. Sorry. Sterling hates. Mark. Oh, he irks. I was so happy that she was not there. Yeah. Yeah. Sure was left open. She was out. Gone. Real quick. Your plane thumbs up. Yeah. Two thumbs. Yes. Yes. I have seen your planes. Two thumbs up. I mean, kind of on a teacher. I haven't seen it a long time. Yeah. But still holds up. Yeah. It does. Really good. Yeah. I haven't seen it in a while. It's just rented all the time as a kid. I'm, I'm looking at our BHS collection on the shelf. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, Princess Bride, all of the police academy movies. Yeah. Airplane would fit. Airplane and very much. None of them. Princess Bride, fine. None of those police academy movies. Should I have been watching? None of those airplane airplane. First, first naked. They're, they're, they're probably. That's right. That's right. But it's, it's a comedy. So parents are like, yeah, I don't think I go ahead. And, and it's like gratuitous. And those police academy movies are problematic from beginning to end. Yeah. But, um, yeah. Problematic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 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There was a moment, but was this before she went to go over to Mark's house where she was at the house listening to the voice mail that you were leaving? Yes. And then just as she was about to answer it, you wound up hanging up, just sort of re-emphasizing the loneliness of it all. And then she winds up going to the abortion, laying down on the table, it's just a shot on her face, and you hear the doctor talking about talking it through the procedure, and then riding home in a cab almost said Uber. There's no such thing. Yeah. Going home in the cab, and her mom comes home from New York. That's you, Mandy Moore. You're her mom. Yeah. Really? I guess. I was going to say, "Hey, Buck, Buck, what's going on?" Thought I was going to, I was going to care for my mom. Yeah, I left you a couple of messages. She's in tears a little bit. What was on the TV? Because it was a good cover. I can't remember what it was. Was it the Siderhouse rules? It might have been. Yeah, it was Toby McGuire, right? It was Toby McGuire, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, had to be. Siderhouse sounds like Siderhouse rules. That sounds like jumping to cry out more than the ice storm. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah. Isn't the Siderhouse rules thematically about the same thing? I can't remember what Siderhouse was. I never watched it. Isn't it about? Oh, it might be. I'm portions. Is it? She was, so mom comes home and sees that she's teary. Yeah. It's like, "Oh, Buck, what is going on? Are you okay?" And she's like, "No, mom, I'm just watching like a sappy movie and I'm fine." Yeah, it's just Toby. It's Toby. It's Toby. It's Toby. Toby always makes me cry. He does. And I forget what happens from there. I think the most interesting, small little nuance is like, "Can I get you something to eat?" And she's like, "I'll take some ice cream." Yeah. And you say, "I'll give you some ice cream." Yeah. Right? Because I think that's sort of her comfort. That's her comfort. Yeah. And it feeds into when she finally goes and sees dude, right? You see Kate. Mark in the present day. In the present day. Walking across the street. And she says, "Mark." He's smoking a cigarette outside of a weird kind of music store. Yeah. And all tracks. Like he just, he sucked then and he sucks now. Yeah. Yeah. He's made nothing of himself at all whatsoever. Yeah. He's like, you're in the scene. You said, I feel like I come with too much vitron. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No, please. You can have as much as you want for this character. I think that's the point. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I watched the whole thing from that minivan in the back. I'm sitting in the minivan at the back. They shot a couple things on me. And I realized, "Oh, I never made the cut in the scene." There's some footage on the cutting room floor. There's a lot of footage for me and Anne Fletcher. Her coach me through it. And I was like, I do wish, I do wish Toby could have gotten a word in. I was like, or I wish Toby had rolled on the window. Had been standing outside the car. Sure. Just in the back. Sure. Just like standing next to there, just like ready to whatever. Yeah. At the ready. At the ready. But Kate handles it. Handles him as needed. I think she walks up to him. And at first, you're not sure if she's going to be able to confront a dress situation the way she wants to or the way she needs to. And she essentially, she essentially, you know, lets him know exactly how she feels. Yeah. The damage he did. Yeah. And that she refuses to help to carry any of that. Yeah. Let him define her. And so she gives it back to her as she says. There's like, she said, "What do you remember about our relationship?" And he's like, "What are you talking about, man?" It was like, you know, the six months we had, like some 20-odd years ago, blah, blah, blah. And he says, he says, you were broken in all the right places. We were kids. We were in love. Yeah. And then she says, like, no, bro, I was a kid. It was a kid. You were 24-year-old, man. Yeah. Which is a good thing. Listen, six years. The distinction. Six years between 24 and 30 is different than six years between 24 and 18. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a golf. When the weird guy who's 25 is hanging around with us senior year high school, I'm like, what are you doing here, bro? Yeah. Go away. Correct. And she says, I'm not broken. You're the one who's broken. And what I found interesting about it is like, there was no discussion about the abortion. It's like, you don't even deserve that much knowledge about me. No, no, no. You don't like, like, in the past or in the present, when I thought, like, maybe you should have been a part of this, no, you served the purpose of allowing me to, like, your springboard for me becoming a better person. Yeah. I now know what I want in life because I got a chance to experience something that I definitely don't ever want to have a gang. Yeah. You know, amazing how much of life is the process of elimination. Yeah. Yeah. Just like figuring out what you don't want totally, totally, totally. And then the beautiful thing is on the ride home. She's talking to her husband and she's like, look, man, like you could have done all sorts of things. I know you wanted to beat his ass, but she didn't. And you let me go over, you let me put my big girl panties on and walk across the street and deal with this shit and let me be my own white knight. I love that. And I was, and she's like, thank you. And you're like, okay, she's like, it's cool. You know, it's like, if you need it, something else, though, we can turn this car around right now. Yeah. Yeah. There was such wish fulfillment watching that for me, too. Like, did you feel that a little bit? Just, I'm like, wow, this is the way to confront someone who has done you wrong. Yeah. Because it's confident. It's capable. She didn't, like you said, reveal too much. Yeah. She really stood her ground. It wasn't emotional. It was like, yeah, I just I really was an awe of her strength in that moment. You know, because Kate is Chrissy, like they just, they are such deeply emotional creatures. And this was like a moment of Kate really, like, standing her ground in a way that I found admirable. Agreed. There's a few things more satisfying than a well set and well kept boundary. Yeah. Completely so hard to do. And when you do it, you're just like nailed it. Yeah. And then I'm going to hold it stuck the landing hold hold. There it is. Then the echo is what I thought was lovely is we get a chance to see young, young Kate in the past watching her parents Jack and Rebecca enjoying airplane. Yeah. And a laugh. We get a chance to see present day Kate and her husband sitting on the couch and enjoying airplane. Yeah. She's with her person. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It leaves the airplane test, I guess. Yeah. If you, if you want to know, that's the takeaway. Yeah. Okay. So that's that's that, right? Let's talk about Kevin and Madison. Kevin and Madison. I started calling them Kettison. That never caught Kettison. Probably wouldn't. No, maven. No, that's not it. They just don't have a good couple name. Maven is not bad. Maven's not bad. Maven? Ma, yeah. As I was stretching it too much. A little bit. Yeah, I mean, Kevin and Madison, they are preparing to meet a nanny. Yeah. Very excited. Nanny used to nanny for Timberlake, right? Yeah. They made Timberlake cry when she left them, right? I love having somebody in my house. How far away were we from the show on ABC? Which one? The British woman. Was it called a nanny? The British woman? The British woman. Oh, you know, like the, the, like tough, yeah. Yeah. Show up with like and, and put troubled kids in their place. Yes. Yes. Yes. I feel like Mary Poppins asked, but like we were prepared for something like that. Something nanny, right? Something nanny. Yeah. She thought about that show. I haven't either. I think we were far removed from that. We were pretty far removed from that. Super nanny. Yeah. Super nanny. That's what I felt like. We were preparing for our own version of Super nanny. Yeah. But this, what I found interesting about this one, and you guys talked me through the specifics. I'm going to go global for a second. These ideas that we have in our head that have not been expressed to each other about what we think life is going to look like. Yeah. And then they have this moment where it comes to a head and it's like, oh, we were thinking two very different things, right? So when they bring in the nanny, she seems very cool, very sweet. And Kav is talking about, look, I need somebody who can get on the road with us. You know, I don't know where production is going to be. That it aren't. She's like, I've got, yeah, I'm perfectly happy to travel, ready to travel. Madison, Luxor is like, well, you know, that may happen every once in a while, but for the most part, we're going to be in our home, you know, raising our children. And you see this sort of like, yeah, all right, here's where the two things collide. When you're individuals without children, it's kind of easy to press pause on certain things. Then once the kids come into it, it's like, oh, no, we have to make a decision collectively. There's been conversation, Rachel and I had it before we got married. Give it to them. Like, we need to really discuss the mindset of what it looks like to marry an actor. Yeah. Like, my life is going to be a rollercoaster career wise. Yeah. And it could be all over the place. And it. That's one hundred percent. You said, I'm going to be successful. Well, I'm going to be, I said, don't worry about it. Although, yeah, clearly, I got this should come. But it has also proven, like, you know, four months before we got married, I was like, Oh, and and five days after we get married, we got to move to New York. You know, five days. Yeah, five days after we got married, we got in the car and drove to New York to do a play about football. So maybe that'll work. Maybe it won't. Who knows? It did well. It worked out well. And then six years after that, it's like, uh, now we got to move to California. How on board and how what 100% always because because we had that conversation early on and it was like, we could drop of a hat, you know, like last year, okay, I'll be in Toronto. Right. See you on and off for the next six months, yeah, you know, or Vancouver or whatever the thing. Do you guys have a rule in terms of how much time apart? I mean, we try not to go more than two or three weeks, but again, like, who knows what the possibility, especially now with kids, it's like, you know, in L.A. U.S.D., you can't miss that much school anymore. Similar, like two weeks is pretty max at this point, this, this season of life with these small children for and under. I'm like, have you guys had cause to uproot and move everybody more to New York for Dr. Death? Yes. Everybody dead. But they're only two. They were young. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Like, so we did that with Andrew when I was on Army wives and Ryan actually had a recurring on Army wife, so we were all able to be together, which was really, really cool. But like what was interesting before kids, and before, think about like before COVID, and when people used to be able to go into a room and audition, the bird was like, you listen, I can't really do my career from Charleston. Yeah. And I was like, I get that. We do the same thing. So we had a six week rule. It's a lot of weeks, it's a lot of weeks. And I would say this to married people, I think six weeks is too long. Yeah. I think it's too long too. I think six weeks is too long. Like, you know, four weeks is pushing it, but I like two to three. Yeah. Like, it's, you don't want to become too comfortable being single in a marriage. Yeah. Being apart like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And two weeks is long enough to miss someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what it feels like to me. And if you guys have any thoughts on that, you can weigh in. And I'm curious to hear what people think because in six weeks, I'd be like, I miss you. And she'll, I miss you too, but she's like, I got to do this audition. And so it's like career relationship, which one is taking priority at which particular time? When the kids came, it became easier for both of us to say like, this is too long. Yeah. And even this year, I went to Australia for Voltron. And my youngest son said to me, so dad, I think you were gone for too long. He said it. And I said, you know what? Right. I was like, that's tough. That's tough. Yeah. You know, and it's, you figure it out as you go along, you know what I'm saying? It's trial and error. And the photo negative of that Rachel and I are starting to realize is that it is important for us to go away. Uh-huh. What's in a while? Yeah. Like, Rachel, why don't you go for, wait, it's like you're a best. No, no, baby. Like you have a yoga retreat you want to do. Okay. We're Costa Rica or whatever for a week. You should do it. Yeah. We'll figure it out here. Like, I want to go to the mountains for three or four days and just be alone and quiet or use some like, like that is also a good thing to have. That's lovely. Yeah. Like, I might need a little of that. Maybe. Maybe it's already halfway up there in here. I had a 4 a.m. wake up this morning with a very happy and sweet little girl. What? God bless you. Yeah, we're tired. Taylor and I were both like, boo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So back to the show, um, they, after the nanny leaves, they wind up having this conversation and basically saying what you said, like, you know, what did you think life was going to look like, you know, like I would like to be the kind of person that can demand that things be shot in Los Angeles, but like that's not where I'm in my career and you go to where the work is. Yeah. This is basically what you're saying to your wife. You go to where the work is. And the logistical reality is what this partnership could look like. And it's juxtapozosed juxtapozosed juxtapozization of the theme. It's juxtaposed with the scene with, right, that's this episode with young Kevin, right, back in New York, yeah, realizing right after this, this trip for a showcase where he meets an agent and the agent is sending him to LA was correct for pilot season, yeah, because that used for those who don't know that used to be a thing and there used to be, there, there used to be a two month period, yeah, like end of January, after Sundance to sometime in April, to, yeah, beginning of April, two to three months where all of the pilot auditioning was happening and it was only happening in Los Angeles. And so there was this migration of actors, everybody would come and stay at the awkward apartment, yes, at the idea of booking a change my life, yeah, a television show that could go on. Yeah. And so you got to go do it. And Randall is immediately like, hmm, that doesn't, he's a little saucy with it. He's like, oh, good. So this is one of those things because you look good, like, is that what this is about, right? Yeah. But also just sort of like, he's sniffing, he's sniffing something out here. Yeah. You're married because just got married like you should be together, right? Because I think it was mentioned at like a dinner at Kevin's apartment, Kevin and Sophie's apartment with mom during this same trip, that, yeah, he had, he had met an agent and the agent wants him to come to, right? And that's when Randall was sort of like, what, you guys just got married, Sophia, are you going to go with him and Sophie's like, no, I have school, like, I'm going to be here in New York. Yeah. I'm sending time apart. And I, yeah, Randall immediately clocked that was like, this doesn't feel like the best choice. Sure. Was this what I was, have I told this story about us moving to New York after I'm, after getting married? Oh, thanks. I found out four months before we got married that I was cast by Tommy Kale in this play. Yeah. Yeah. In a Broadway play. Right. Living in Chicago. Somehow got myself a Broadway play. Yeah. Because you that bad, bro. You're that guy. Sterling. I'm a bad man. Yes. Come on, man. But two people looking at each other, being like, well, Rachel has a job that pays a salary here in Chicago. And I, as an actor, someone gives you a Broadway play. You don't go, oh, no, thanks. I'll wait for the next one. They're. Yeah. This is your big break. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is no Rachel quitting her job. Right. So we're going to get married. And I'm going to move to New York for six months to a year. Like this isn't any three, four, five, six weeks thing. This is. Let's make it clear from two. Also, when you are doing a Broadway play, your rehearsal schedule and performance schedule is six days a week. Yes. Right. It is Tuesday through Sunday. You can't just pop on a plane to go visit. Yeah. There's your there. You're there. You're there. Yeah. We were losing our minds about what to do. And then Rachel's boss out of nowhere calls her and says, Hey, you know, your position here in Chicago, we need someone to do that same job in New York. Can you run? Come on, bro. Can you run the interviews for people to find a person for New York? I got you. Candidate right here. And she accepted the job on the phone. Yeah. And said, I will hire my replacement here in Chicago. she got herself essentially. the exact same job in New York and so on. - You can't tell me, you can't tell me, God, ain't real yet. - Yeah. - Buddy. - That is so faded. - I'm telling you, we were doing the artist's way while this was happening. - Are you serious? - We were prophesying at all in our morning pages, including the Broadway play. I think I told you this on the podcast. - Yes. - And it all worked out. Her boss was a dying guy, that guy. That guy sent her on a three day business trip between our wedding and the day we moved to New York. Five days, we had five days between the wedding and moving to New York. He sent her on a three day business trip between the two anyways. Moving on. - We love that guy. So yes, you're so right, this sort of juxtaposition of Kevin as a young man versus Kevin present day and you're like, don't make those same mistakes. - She even says, she's like, look man, I told you I was gonna do this by myself, but then I sort of fell in love with the idea of our family. And you being here and being a part of that. And he says, you know what? - I do. - I found love with the idea of our family too. - And the way it ultimately, he says he's not going, oh, he gets a phone call about how the movie moved to Vancouver. That's what this all sort of came from, right? - And she really pushes them to go do it. - She's like, you've been working so hard. - This is not so, this is an interesting thing because I think logistically, if we think about this, let me break this down. So, baby's supposed to be doing, I don't know, eight weeks, six weeks, something like that. He's only gonna be gone for a certain amount of time. He's got to go to quarantine and then shoot for a couple of weeks and then to be back, he should be back in time, right? But my thing is, twins never go like. - They gum. - We act like it's going to be 40 weeks. - No. - Ain't going to be on for all these early. - 20 or like 36 is full time. - Yeah. - I'm saying so it's like, I need y'all to do that, man. - Yeah. - In these decisions. - I also said it was two weeks of shooting. So, how big a deal could this be? - Yeah. - I was like, two weeks is, for those not in the, like two weeks is like, better, better, better, better. Number five on the guest, number five on the call sheet. - I was like, it must be some tiny indie movie that they're like shooting in 20 days or something. - Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. And so, at the end of it, like, she convinces him to go do the movie, you'll be back, you know what I'm saying? And while you're there, just think about what exactly it is that you want. - Yeah. - And Kev's like, I want this. - I want this. - I want you to just think about that. (laughs) - Because it's not, man. - She's like, would you just think about it? - Yeah. - I also want to take note of every time Kevin and Madison kiss each other. Does anybody else feel like a little bit of like, just like, perfunctory? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's not. - I think that's intentional. - Yeah, there's no passion. - There's no passion. - Yeah, yeah. - And now we kiss. - We gotta clock it. It's not like Jack and Rebecca. - No, no, no. - You know what I'm saying? It's just like. - It's not even Kevin and Sophie. It's not, you know what I mean? It's like there is a choice that these two have made to embark on this journey together. They want to have these babies. They're going to be a family. But it's like, they weren't in love. - I've fallen in love with the idea of this family. - Of our family. There's a big difference. - Yeah, yeah. - And it doesn't feel, it's very intentional, but it doesn't feel like a slight against either one of them. It's like there is something really beautiful about, you know, families look a multitude of different ways, right? And this is just one of those ways. It's not, it doesn't always have to be like, man and woman coming together in love. And it's like these two people wanted the same thing. And they're in this particular situation and they have sort of made the choice together as two adults. A very clear idea of what this is. And it's like, I think if anything sort of germinates along the way, right? If they do start to have feelings for one another, that's just a cherry on the Sunday. But no one's really like, I think like, especially it feels like Madison is very like, there's so much clarity there, very pragmatic of like, which I'm sure sort of happens to with motherhood. And she says as much, like you say. She's like, I was going to do this on my own. And like, in a way, I almost felt like the addendum to that is, and I still could, like, do you know what I mean? Like if you don't want to do this, if like I want to be, I'm going to have these babies, I'm going to have this family, and I'm going to be home. Like I don't want to be jet setting like an international roadie following you around. And that's totally understandable. So it's like, I don't know. I just, I like this sort of representation of what a family could also be, in this particular situation. And let's be honest, we love to see romance. Yeah. We love to see the music swell, and people passionately come together. But let's be honest. Let's be honest. 90% of relationship is pragmatic decision-making. Yeah, yeah. And that's fine. Yeah. Let it be. Yeah, it's nice to see that slice of it. Let it be. Yeah. It doesn't have to be passionate people make it bodies slamming into each other all the time. Sometimes it's just two people trying to, like, make do what's right. Yeah. And figure out logistics. That's right, logistics. That is true. And it's like logistics. That is 10%, 50% of any, yeah, exactly. We are just trying to deliver this packet. This is funny. I'm laughing because you're absolutely right. But I also feel like it's what you're saying is, because of representation in, like, romance novels and the notebook and things of that nature, we mislead people sometimes into thinking that romance can only manifest itself with these bells and whistles. And it needs to manifest itself first. Right. Yeah. It needs to be present at the moment of go in order for anything to be viable. Yeah. And it's like it's so much pressure on everything. It is. It is. Everyone. I'm also listening. You guys, that is a wonderful explanation. And I think it is thematically, absolutely true. I also like to think behind the scenes, like Dan watching on his little thing as Justin is supposed to make out with his wife. Yeah. Tell her the director's, I guess, too much. It's too much. Don't let him tell him. Tell him, tell him, tell him. Tell him more perfunctory. Yeah. More perfunctory. They don't actually love each other. They don't have to be. Yeah. Yeah. Remind them this is not going to work out. Yeah. They're not excited to be in bed with one another. Action. There it is. There it is. Okay. That's part two. More that was us after the short break. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. March includes International Women's Day. And it feels like a good moment to pause and really acknowledge just how much women carry. At work, in relationships, in families, and in all the roles they show up for every single day. Amen, sister. I've been thinking about the women in my life who've had the biggest impact on me. You've heard me talk about some of them on the part before. They carry a kind of strength that isn't always loud, but it's constant. The people who hold everything together without ever really being asked how they're doing. Yes. A lot of work goes unseen. The emotional labor, the caretaking, the expectations. It adds up, and it's easy for their own well-being to end up at the bottom of the list. And that is why conversations around mental health matter so much. Therapy can be a space to step back, reflect on all the roles you're playing, and take care of yourself in a way that's intentional and supportive. There's this sort of pressure in society. First of all, women in the workforce, way more than they were generation ago, et cetera. But even in the workforce, you still have to be the nurture. The pressure to make sure that the kids come up a certain way or whatnot. And even though if you're in a household where people split things differently, the pressure is usually on the woman for like, how does the house look? How are these kids going out into the world, et cetera? And it's really, you're asked to juggle multiple balls all the time. One thing that stands out about BetterHelp is the quality of their therapists. They work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US. BetterHelp also does the initial matching work for you. You start with a short questionnaire that helps identify your needs and preferences, and with more than 12 years of experience and an industry leading match fulfillment rate, they typically get it right the first time. But if that match doesn't feel right, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists having served more than 6 million people globally. It also has an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for live sessions based on over 1.7 million client reviews. To all the women listening, we see you, we appreciate you, we honor you, and we thank you. Your emotional well-being matters. And support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/TWU. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash T-W-U. Listen, I've tried a lot of protein bars over the years. All right, mostly out of convenience. But what I kept running into was the same issue. Either they were high in calories and sugar, or they didn't actually keep me full. That's why David. really stood out to me. You guys, it's like, where has David been my whole life? Yeah. I've gone through all of them. And then David Saunters in here. Yeah. Pull one out. Sure. I got it right now. Crinkle. Give it, give it some ASMR. Oh, yeah. 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Yeah, like the incredible Hulk, but not green. It was very funny. It was also very good. I did rewind it twice just to watch everyone's choices in the office. The way color? No, no, just the dancing. Oh, because everybody they'd shown them your yeah, everybody was clearly trying to do a mover to from your video. And it was really good to watch everybody be like, okay, good. I love didn't nail it. I love watching a background. Yeah, when I'm on set, if there's background, when I'm in the scene, I'm checking it out because there's some stuff going on. Yeah, that I love so much. Yeah, some real choices. Okay, so this is what he's saying. I want to I want to interpret this for the audience. There are times in which people are looking for their moment. And when they get that opportunity, right? And just sort of like the scene doesn't really require yeah, like a a largest, but they're like, no, no, no, no, no, it's my moment. This is my time. Even more than this is my time to watch someone who is fully aware that it is not there at moment. And they are so into and this is terrible podcasting. But if you're watching, this is why you should watch is is they'll pair up couples and they will tell them to not make any sound, but to have a conversation. And so to watch to really talented background. Yeah, performers. Yeah, have a conversation without making any noise. Yeah, is an art in my memory of the highest really is class. It's quite good. It's astounding. Yeah, because I sometimes when I I'm asked to do it, I'm like, I'm making too much noise. Yeah. My lips are moving too hard. I try to save real money. You're totally right. Yeah. And this is to give full credit to those background actors who are committed, who are professional, who like, you're right. They're like, you can't make any sounds. Like we're we don't want to pick anything up on you, you know, but everyone at this party needs to be falling in love. Yeah. And you guys know each other very well. They they can cock the whole story without even saying anything. And yeah, you're right. Just like watching it like out of the corner of your eyes. We are members of the the screen actors guild, right? Sag Aftra. Yes. But 70 to 80% of the members in our guild are background actors. Yeah. Which is 70 to 80. It is a really high percentage of people who make up our union. And they are they are talented people, which is why I'm always just like, I'm I'm into it. But for for those who don't know, they're they are also a part of a pool that if all the sudden some we have someone we need someone to say a line. That a second or a first AD will go to a day player and ask them and find hey, can you and they will audition them on the spot. They say that say, yeah, I'll take two of those, you know, or whatever the thing is. Yeah, I'll have what she's having. Whatever the line is. So it's it's a it's a fascinating part of our industry. But yeah, anyways, the office was all nailed. The office is in it. Having fun, etc. J1 comes in and he continues to mess with me. And then I was like, you shouldn't do that. But like he said, he said something. I was like, you shouldn't do that with like a naked man shirt on. He's like, oh yeah. Yeah. He tries to get it off again. It really can't get it off. Love it. It was a cute moment. Helm take it off. And he says, you know, we we get these comments to your weekly sort of reviews of what's going on in City Hall, etc. And we got this one. And you see Randall sort of take a look at it. He's like, you need a moment because I'm going to give you a moment. And you see Randall taking it in. Next thing you know, he goes home to his beloved and said, I got this note from this guy named Highling who says he knows my mom. And she's like, it's scooby snacks. And he starts to read the whole thing. And I can't remember the exact words of it. But like there's something that sort of Beth asked, oh, there's a picture. There's a picture. Yeah. And Beth's like, there's a picture. Is that is that your mom? Is that your mom? And then Randall says, I don't know. I've never seen the woman, right? Takes the thing back upstairs. And he starts to get ready to go for run because that's what Randall does to sort of deal with his own anxiety. Quick hot take. I was surprised that William didn't ever have a photo of her. Like that wasn't part of our storyline. Like that he didn't have a single photo. That photo. Yeah. That photo of the two of them. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Anyways, yeah, it's like because the William, right? It wasn't. Yeah. It could have been a photo. That's a good turn. Yeah. I guess there wouldn't have been the mystery then. That's right. He's upstairs. And you see sort of going through it. And he's like, I don't feel like I spent 36 years trying to find folks. I found them. I think I got what I needed. I don't really need to go down. Yeah. I'm not searching for any more answers, right? And he tries to give a quick peck and before he goes, I was like, you ain't just going to peck and run, bro. It's not a peck. We don't do perfume. Yeah, that's right. You know, you know what I'm saying? But because the reason why there's this conflict, right? Because in the message, he says, yeah, that I was close to Laurel, right? And when she, when she passed, that's right in 2015. That's right. Right. So, which is why there's not just immediate interest. There's a big schism between the story that William told him and the story that he's now hearing from this dude, right? Right. Well, because it would mean that William lied to him. It would mean he's like, why don't you know, because it would mean that William lied to me. Yeah. And then we have a flashback to Randall and William. Yeah. And him telling the story about small meeting on the bus and everything. And that she used, but like she pulled herself together for nine months, kept herself so clean, right? But the pain of delivering you was so much that she sort of went back to it. And this overdose happened whatnot. And she wound up passing away. Which is the story that that's, you know, loomed in his head this whole time. And the idea that the man that he took 36 years for him to find would then lie to him. Right. I think was just too much. Right. So he says, I'm going to go for this run. And she says, you're going to talk to your therapist. And he's like, I don't need the therapist. And she's like, you need to talk to his therapist. He needs to talk to his therapist. But don't, but just like Susan Kalechewaison can deliver. It turns out that he winds up talking to a therapist. He's out on the run. He poses mask down. He's talking to him. And his therapist points out to him. We'd seen 16 year old Randall put the ad in the paper to try to find his mom when the white lady shows up. That's really still one of my favorite moments where this is like, Hey, man, I know you ain't my mama. Like, you look, your daddy was real dark. And I know that if you could just help mama, I'm like, come on, man. Now space was like, me watching. I was like, you listen, go on, go, man. Just go and get out of here. So we've seen that how you curl your tongue at the grocery store. And it's therapist's point. All these things out. At every point you've had this instinct to connect to find out where you came from. When you found William, did that not help, he's like, yeah. So you're already in it, bro. Like why not be in it, in it? - Yeah. - Yeah. - So why aren't you coming home, what not? And this is when the two brothers dovetail with one another, in a way that I forgot it. I completely forgot it. - Yeah, me too. And Kevin's on his way to the airport. - He's on his way to the airport. - Causes brother. - Causes brothers, brothers sitting there looking at the picture of his mom and dad at what have you. And he goes, hey, man, what's going on? And he's like, not too much, man. So I, oh, no, this is a classic move. 'Cause this actually even happens for me now with my brother sometimes. No, no, I'm gonna be honest with you guys. - All right. - This is interesting. I'm in this place with Arlene Brown, who just turned 84 years young. - Happy birthday, mom. - Thank you very much. And it's weird. Every time I get a call from my brother, I'm wondering if it's the call. - Sure, sure, sure, right? And so he calls and he goes, is everything okay with mom? Everything okay with the twins? Like it's sort of like just making sure. 'Cause it's like, we're not talking to each other that much. - Everything's still frosty. - Right? Things are still frosty. So it's like, if he's calling, it must be something. - Important. - Let me know what's going on, everything cool. That gap, everything's cool. Twins are healthy, moms doing well, et cetera. He's like, I'm trying to figure out how to deal with the situation with Madison. - Because he's in the same situation he was when he was a kid. - We go to the flashback. - Yeah. - This is a good point for the flashback, right? And Randall winds up calling Kav after getting back to school. It's like, man, I'm thinking about this thing that you're about to do, going to LA and everything. I'm like, when I think about being away from Beth, like I can barely breathe, you know? Like, maybe you should stick it out. It's a little concerned. He's like, look, man, I appreciate you saying that. It's sweet. But me and Sophie are solid. We're gonna be okay. And he's like, I, bro. - Is everyone watching? It's like. - No. Throwing. - Here we go. He's like, all right, bro, if you say so, you know what I mean? - Whatever you say. - And so that Kav kind of called makes the phone call off of that. And he said, look, I'm trying to figure out what to do with Madison but not. And I wound up saying to myself, what would Randall do? - What would Randall do? And he said, I say that to myself a lot. - I say that to myself a lot. - When I'm lost, yeah. - And I'll be damned. Guys, it's a weird thing. When you, in the show, I did the scene. I did it. And I'm watching the scene and I'm doing the same thing that I'm doing on the screen. I was like, oh man, that's a sweet thing to say. - That's a nice thing to say. - You say it like I was like it. - That's a nice thing to know. - That's a nice thing to know, right? And there's this sort of thawing. Like there's this space that's created for something else. And I don't know how that, how it progresses. I know how the conversation ends. Is there anything else? - Yeah, there's not really an apology for the fight, but there's an acknowledgement of it. - Yes. - And he says, Kate told me about your conversation. And did you really feel that way during our childhood? And he's like, I can't imagine. - Yeah. - You can't imagine feeling like that. And us not knowing and mom and dad not knowing. And I think, I mean, you can speak to this, but there's something that registers to Randall that makes him go like, I need to go make this important phone call. So he gets off the phone with Kevin. - He gets off the phone, yeah. - Let me just stop you right there basically. I actually have to go, we'll talk later, but I have to make an important call. - Yeah. - That's right. - And he calls, hi. - We wound up calling hi. Hi, hi, hi. - Really good. - That was great. - You're really good writing. - That is fun. - Excellent delivery. (laughing) Hi, hi. - Hi. - I mean, what I mean to say is hello. - Hello. - It's this, (laughing) because I didn't even get the joke the first time. I thought it was like stuttering over it. Hi, hi. Hi. Like I didn't, and then when you're so about, I'm like, that's good writing. - That's good. - And this is fun. - Very well handled. - And so in the conversation with hi, I think what it is is like the conversation with Kev and the sort of like healing of that which is broken. Sort of said like, you know what, I should, I have an opportunity to heal something. - Something else, another part of me. - Let me take advantage of this. I'm gonna get back to you, big dog, but I'm gonna do this 'cause if I wait too long, I may not do it. That's the sense that I got, you know what I mean? - Again, it felt like another boundary well set. - Yeah. - And boundary well held. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, there wasn't, it wasn't a friction thing. It was just like, I'll be back. - I appreciate you doing this, but yeah, so we don't need to do this over the phone. - Sure. - Sure. - Right now. He winds up, he's at, after high, and he's like, really nice to hear from, you know what I mean? He's saying, man, catch your question. Like, William led me to believe that my mom died of an overdose or not. And you have a very different sort of story. Do you think that he lied to me? And he said like, I think William told you the truth based upon what Kev, you know. - Yeah, based on the story. - But yeah. - That he basically lit his truth. - Yeah, and I think that huge relief. - Huge relief for him. - Oh, I immediately started crying. I was just like, yeah, couldn't have taken it, right? - But then why didn't Laurel come looking for me? - Yeah. - Yeah, it unlocks a whole other series of questions. - A whole other series of questions. He's like, man, I wish I could show you, you know, where she lived and the places that she went and the people that she lived and everything. And R&B look at each other and we're like, why not? You know, I was like, would you be okay if we came down there? And he's like, I'd love it. So that's where the whole thing ends. - What a generous spirit. Hi, it's wonderful. It's just like from the jump, the fact that it's like, you can just tell it's like, I don't know the nature of their relationship. Clearly, there must have been some degree of love there. I don't know if it was romantic love or, but for him to honor her in this way. Of just like, of coming across this clip, recognizing, like, William Hill, like making those connections and finding a way to reach Randall. - Yeah. - Like, it just, yeah, really, I was so struck by his, like, just his generous spirit. That is, it's such a, what a thing to do for someone that you love. - I couldn't agree more. If only there was a way to talk to him, you know? - Yeah, I think we're gonna talk, I think we are. - Let's talk to him. - Vinh Hong is played highly, highly, and we're gonna talk to him on this episode. So stick around after this. We'll be back with more. That was us. (upbeat music) - We are so excited because today we are joined by the actor who brought high to life on this as us. - Vinh Hong is joining us on Zoom to talk about stepping in the high story, his experience on episode five and 506, and what it meant to help reveal this important chapter of Randall's past. - And just a quick heads up, you guys. There might be some spoilers ahead as we discuss his role. So just be forewarned, but let's, let's jump in and welcome Vinh Hong. - Hello, Vinh. - Hi. - Good to see you. - Hi, everybody. Hi, sterling, man. Hi, Chris. - Who are you? - Doing good. Doing good. Wow, what a, what a great surprise. Thanks for having me on, brother. - Thank you for joining us on this nice to get to your episode. - Your spirit through this whole, the beginning of season five has been such a beautiful thing to behold, like watching you and your granddaughter, like getting to be in scenes with you, like listening to you sort of just telling us the story. And I just remember being on set with you, bro. Like you talk about the embodiment of appreciation and gratitude and joy. Like you're just so full of light. I was telling, I couldn't see anybody else do the role. Like you killed the shit, man. So I had to say that. You killed it. - Wow. Well, I have to say it starts from the top to the bottom, you know, full of them and all the way down to the PAs. What an amazing set to be on. And it's just, I was blown away. I, you know, I was on hiatus for 20 years to raise a family. So I took myself off on camera acting to raise a family and 15th year they didn't do it. And speaking to children, I was at the beach with my kids and a friend of mine called me and said, "Hey, you know, there's a show called, "this is us." I said, "Yeah, I heard of it." So have you seen it? Like, no, I, you know, 15 years on hiatus, I didn't want to know anything about the business 'cause every day, more than once a day, I think about the business and it would hurt so much. I was chucking away doing a regular job. I was an insurance adjuster on the field and just, I'm there on my computer almost every hour, I think about acting for 15 years. So this phone call came in and I normally don't answer phone calls 'cause on the weekends, I'm spending it with my kids at the beach and we're at a bit of a little career low. They're out on the waves playing and they're laughing, smiling and I'm, you know, phone rings and it's a good friend. So I always answered when certain people call. She said, you know, you should audition, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, "Look, a grandpa, are you kidding me?" I've never even played a dad before I left for hiatus let alone a grandpa. - Yeah. - So she said you really should because they're looking everywhere and she said, you know, they're bringing in old men from Orange County, from Little Saigon and, you know, they're not actors. They just, you know, they're, you know, God bless them, their hearts. They have their faces in the shrimp and these monologues and they got the breakdown down to beets. And so I thought, oh, I don't know, I stay really shit. I said, okay, I'll give her a shot. After I looked at in the waves, my kids laughing at each other and you know, their teeth need braces and they're crooked. (laughing) I'm looking out there and I'm thinking, well, they do need braces. So, it was the long shot. (screaming) If I get it, I get braces. What do I have to lose? I just, you know, I just got to get back on the horse or the donkey and just, you know, do this thing. And so I said, okay, fine. I'll do it if I make sure I'm happy. Imprapping for four days. I slept seven hours. So, I would just scoot around and I would do what my grandpa used to, stand in front of the toilet and just take like a two minute pee or something. (laughing) And my wife, she's a nurse and she's like, oh, I gotta get to work. Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. You know, come on, you can't rush the old man. I got prostate problems. (laughing) We're getting into character. I love it. Yeah. So, she said, I could check it for you. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. (laughing) You're late for work. (screaming) So, I did all that. I would go to the store. I would just, you know, slow things down. And so, seven hours of sleep in four days. And then I auditioned. I, you know, it was what during COVID. So, I was taking a shower, my hair was too long. So, I thought I took a pair of scissors into the bathroom and you have done this for like a month thinking, should I, should I not, should I not, should I not. And this time, I said, you know, I really should. So, I went, right across. And I was trying to look for silver spray paint to do my hair. And my kids said, it's Halloween. Maybe mom can go to Walgreens and get you some, you know, hair stuff. So, so, I lighten up my hair, just put coloring on it. And the things we do for audition is amazing. It's amazing. And I dehydrated myself so that way I could get bags. And I think those bags are permanent. So, so for four days, I just drank very little. And yeah, crazy son of a girl. You know, I didn't know how to get back onto it. It's 15 years, I, you know, and I, I didn't want to disappoint. So, and you didn't, you delivered. So, I auditioned and just like you know, our upstairs, our loft here, it's hot. So, I'm sweating as you can see with this sweatshirt on. I'm going somewhere, so I sweat it like an old man. And I darkened my sunspots and I said, I'm ready. So, my, my kids thought it was funny because they've never seen me audition before. And they helped me out. And, you know, we never need lights. So, so we took their reptile lights. So, we borrowed something from them and called it. - Wait, tell them a little bit about the reptiles real quick. How many do you, how many did you have at the time that we shot? And how many of you have now? Because this, I remember this video. - Yes, we had about 150 roughly at the time. Give her, take maybe 20. We had, you know, green anaconda, yellow anaconda. It sounds like a song. We have reptile boas. We have Burmese pythons and my favorite. - You were in an apartment, correct? - Yes, yes, one bedroom and a loft. - Burm. - Yeah. So, my wife, you know, she had all this beautiful furniture that she bought. And, you know, she would drive home and all tired from nursing and looking over by the big old dumpster. And there's like beautiful chairs and beautiful stuff out there because I was making room for reptile cages. - Oh. - So, yeah, she would say, hey, that, by the trash, that looks like the thing that I spent X amount of dollars. I think, yeah, I think it's someone can have better use of it. We need more space for this here. - Do you still have all of them? - Well, we have about 50 now. We kind of, we, we, we, yeah, yeah. - I love that 50 is the reasonable. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm disappointed that there's not one here with us. I mean, I would love to bring it in. I have a death stalker scorpion. My son turned me on to death stalker scorpions. - Yeah. - I think it's, I'm not a, I'm not an expert, but I think they're one of five most venomous scorpions in the world. - So, let's take one. - I want to get back to the show of me in real quick, but hold on. - Exactly. - What is, what is the obsession? What is the, the pull, the draw? And how is it that you've convinced your whole family to go along with this? - It started when I was very young. Back in Vietnam, you know, during the war, the Vietnam War, bombing to going on further north and my dad would take me on his motorcycle and go into the farmhouse and I was alone. And, you know, I went to explore and I was one of those kids that when we're in the city, if the, the, the, the maid, you know, we were, we were, we had a business. So, so my parents had, I have nine brothers and a sister. So, so lots of people look after, lots of kids look after. So, we had a maid and so when the maid wasn't, when I was not attended, I would venture off to look for reptiles and, and fish and, and I would bring back all sorts of things and then I would get in trouble. But when I'm in the country house, my dad would be busy talking to the workers about our rice paddy. So, I would venture off to look for snakes and other stuff. - Wow. - So, it started from there, yeah. So, you know, and then we, we left the country and then, of course, you know, you know, Nizia, Malaysia, Singapore, I would still, that was my obsession with reptiles and bugs and learning about them. - And you pass that on to your family? - Yeah. - Yeah, you know, we had a dog, we had a, a, a, a mint pin for 18 and a half years and I didn't know that I developed a analogy to, uh, to, to dogs and cats. - Ah. - And my children, same thing. And so when our dog, I passed the way, um, um, our sign is cleared up and so I thought, hey, I have a, a good regular job, uh, let's get them tested. So, they were looked to cats and dogs and so I said, let me introduce you. - Yeah. - So the world of reptiles. - So we would go to death, reaper scorpion. - We would go to reptiles, shells and whatnot. And, uh, and I said, I will apologize to mom. We'll take this home, I will apologize. Don't you do that, I will apologize. And so therefore, we, we, yeah. - Better to ask for forgiveness. - Then permission. - Then permission. - I've heard that before. - And she's very forgiving. - Let me ask you one more question myself before I hand it off to my, to my two podcasts mates. I don't think I've ever used that term. But the question I have for you, given the hiatus that you had and being away, like what did it feel like for you to be back on set? And not just on set, but to be able to represent your country. And like cause we don't get a lot of Vietnamese representation outside of a war context specifically. So I'm just very curious for you what it meant, what it felt like. Oh my gosh, I'm about to cry. So my first introduction to this is us was when I was brought in to do voiceovers for the episode when Jack went to Vietnam. - Yeah. - So I went, oh my God. Wow, wow, this is so authentic. And I was blown away. And a link who led the voiceover group. Oh, wow, everything was so meticulously done that I thought I really missed this. I really, really missed this. So when the chance came up to audition for it. I went, oh yeah, oh yeah. I remember that show. And so that for me, the show was that high for me. That's why I said, but I said no to everything else. And this was the thing that I said, yes, I will audition for it. - Thank God you did. - Yeah, thank God. - Oh no, thank you. When I audition for it, gosh, I was blown away by the script. And I went, oh my God, who wrote this? - This is, you can actually sink your teeth into it. And, you know, there's A to Z versus the stuff that I auditioned for before I, before I went on hiatus. It's like, you know, oh, this is Chinatown. You know, you can't deal with it. - Yeah, absolutely. - And I had casting, would say, casting director would say, where's your accent? I said, well, the script didn't call for an accent. I said, we want an accent and in a reprimanding way. And I said, oh, okay. Do you want a New York accent? Or do you want a Southern accent? What accent? - Yeah, I say, I say, how you doing? (laughing) I said, what the hell is that? I said, I live in New York for quite some time. I, you know, it's a New York accent. - Yeah. - No, we want the other accent. I said, oh, the Chinatown Chinatown is sitting on the fence accent. - Yeah, bro. - Well, that's, if that's what you call it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, I could do that. And that was the last time that I auditioned. But the script here, I think Kay Oigum wrote it. - Yeah. - And I went, oh my God. And the black female character, the Asian male character. - Yeah. - Falling in love. Too most, I don't want to use the word undesired. - But I understand what you're saying. - Yeah. - And two of these people falling in love, wow. Goosebumps thinking about now. - Yeah. - And I went, wow, this is amazing. And the material made it so much easier to work with. Because there's human connection there. And I think a lot of people couldn't identify with it. So I identified with it. And it was easy because I just, you know, I just put. much give into the material. Okay, let's so easy. It's just, I'm lost for word for it because I have to go to a parent teacher conference. I'm saying this because there's this is the only circumstance under which I would leave this interview. I love you, brother. I love you, spirit. And it was such a joy to sit across from the table because as I was watching 506, there was there's very little acting that I had to do in terms of just listening to you, retail, the story, and being so present that like like the picture came to life. I don't know what you remember about it, but I just remember being sort of transfixed with everything that you had to say. And I would get into that more, but I'm going to excuse myself for this parent teacher. And you're going to talk to my fellow podcast host. And I love you. And I'll talk to you. I'll keep talking. I'll talk to you guys. Thank you. All right. Thank you. God bless you. Yeah, it is, it was a parent. You, you imbued not just your character, but the sense of history and love in the relationship that I had with Laurel. Yeah. From the first, from the first word, it was, it was such, I mean, it was, it was so embodied from the get go. Yeah, we were saying that like there's such a spirit of generosity because we were just recapping episode 505 where you've, you know, you've sent this note, Randall's chief of staff, J1 finds it and kind of like, you know, and Randall ends up reaching out to you. He's hesitant, but he reaches out to you. And you kind of like give him the grace of telling him that his father hadn't in fact lied to him that you think that he was telling you the version of the truth that he was aware of, right? And there's this, the such relief over and and you guys kind of make tentative plans to, for him to come and visit New Orleans. But I was like, I just so struck by highs, that spirit of generosity of like every, he, you know, he obviously runs across this like viral clip. Here's the name William Hill and makes the connection and jumps through all of those hoops to seek out this man to kind of honor his late mother's wishes. And like, there's something so profoundly beautiful about that that I just like fits in with everything about our show. But just like, wow, it's I'm, I'm so blown away. And then obviously in episode 506, just like the, like the gesture of like, this is all yours. Like as soon as he meets Randall, it's like, like, he's been waiting for him. I've been waiting to do Laurel's bidding like to just like, she would want you to have all of this and giving him the keys. And yeah, as Chris said, it's like the recounting of this story of like the gift you're giving this man, who never knew his mother, who never would know this history about her family about high and Laurel's love for each other about, you know, and I love that you're so steadfast in your commitment to like getting the story right for her, for him, you know, when he sort of knocks you and says, like, this, like, this is wonderful. But like, I, this isn't the notebook. I don't want to hear about this. Like, and you're like, Oh, no, no, no, just be patient because there's a lot more to this story than what meets the eye or what you're sort of thinking, how it unfolds. So I'm curious, all of that to say, I'm curious when you audition for something like this, are you aware of the breadth of what is in store for this character of like, how he fits into the fabric of this family and, and Randall story in particular, like, you know, because obviously we see you in episode 501, do you know, like, what a role like this will sort of entail when, when you audition for it? Nothing at all whatsoever. Wow. You know, I've never seen the show before, except maybe just a little moments that I, I did for, for that episode when Jack was in Vietnam. Yeah. Other than that, I, a friend of mine said, Oh, yeah, every season has a mystery character. I said, a mystery character kind of like Scooby Doo. I, you know, I, I rough. Yeah. Like how they fit into the story, the, the patchwork of the story, sure. We didn't even have Netflix at the time to, because, because I think it was on Netflix, this, all the seasons. So I had to get Netflix. When I got the part, I get, I got Netflix to watch the first couple of episodes. Now, when I sent in an email with casting, I said, I said, you know, I need more information on the character. It's a good pleat. Could you please give me more information on the character? And they came back and basically said, no, no, we, we can't tell you that. But tell us a little bit about yourself. And I thought, Oh, okay. And so I, I, I just had little hints here and there because I came to the United States with my parents in 1980. So that would make my parents the first generation. And that would make me 1.5 of it. And so I could, I could sort of identify with him a little bit. And so when casting said, well, tell us about yourself. And so I thought, Oh, wow, this, this is great. Of course, as actress, you know, that, you know, when someone says, tell me about yourself, you know, well, what can I pull for myself? So I told them my, my life story, but very short. I said, I was born during the Vietnam War. A lot of bombings, Saigon fell in 1975. The, the, the, the, the North came in, the, the communist came in and we lived under communism for four and a half years. Finally, there was a civil unrest between the, the, the, the folks in southern Vietnam. And so the government said, you know, those that want to leave the country can go. And so we left on a boat. We were those boat people from the, the, the, the late 70s out of Vietnam. Wow. We went to Malaysia. It took us seven days and six nights to get to Malaysia. And on the way there, we were pirated by pirates from Thailand, twice. So they raped pillage women. Well, they, they raped the women. They, they pillaged everything. And, oh my gosh, they, they, they, they searched everywhere for gold. So that happened twice. So we got to Malaysia. We're beaten down. We lived in the refugee camps for two months. And then the government, they didn't want us. So they, they, they, they put us back on the boat. And the Navy, the Malaysian government totus out to the ocean and say, go to Indonesia. Maybe they'll take you there. So we put along and, and then in an hour or two, our, our engine died. So we were floating out there on this fishing boat, turn it to a taxi boat with roughly 250 to 300 people. So we packed like sardines and pretty much, if you squat on the ground, squat, and that's your space the whole time. So for two weeks, we were floating out there 14 and a half days without food and water. So as a child, I drank my urine, I recycle my urine to stay alive. Oh my goodness. So, um, and so finally on the 15th day, we got rescued by a Hong Kong oil tanker. And, and it circled several times and, and it totus through a storm that night onto, uh, to, to a small island in Indonesia. And, and it left. And so we, we kind of floated into the island because it's an oil tanker. It can't bring us too close. So in the morning, the natives came out there. They, they, they helped us onto the land. And we lived there for, uh, I think was a month or so until a US missionary came by and spotted us. So he went and told the, uh, the, the, the higher commission for refugees and then that the US and the French came with two shifts and took us out of there, took us to a bigger island and we lived there for about eight months. And so we live on ration. And I was, as a child, I start for about a year. Um, I had to go fishing with my brother, fishing and to, to, to bring food back for the family. And, uh, and that's how I learned, uh, how to fish a little bit. And so when we, uh, and my dad was in the military. So we, we got, um, you know, top priority to come to the United States. So to whichever country we want to go to, but my dad had always wanted to come to the United States to, uh, give the children the, uh, 10 boys and one girl, a, uh, you know, uh, the American dream pretty much. So, so we came here to, to pursue the, the American dream like everybody did. Um, and, uh, and so I told the, I, I sent that on an email. Oh, my god. It's a casting. Yeah. And it was a Friday afternoon and casting. But well, we just need to hear from, more, from, from more producers, uh, but hang tight. So the following Monday, I think, um, uh, it was announced that I, I get the part. So, so they, they couldn't tell me what the character's about. So they say, tell us about yourself. And so that's, that's basically the story I told, um, through an email. I can't even wrap my head around everything you just said, Vian. That is, yeah. Yeah. A remarkable story, a remarkable life. The resilience, I, I just, I, I mean, it's no small feat. Like what, what Sterling was saying? Like the, your essence, your spirit, like all of that translates into this character. Like I, I feel like you brought your collective history with you into this character. I mean, do you, do you feel like that, like the opportunity to portray someone like this, were you able to really draw upon so much of everything you do? told us? Yes, you know, as actors, you know, we bridge our character between ourselves and what's written. And then, you know, K and other writers of the show wrote such beautiful scripts that it's hard not to just give yourself into and go, wow, you know, this is me, that's that. And it's like, oh, it's like melt the both. Yeah, they melt together. Into it. Yeah. And then of course, you know, Angela Gibb. What a great scene for him to work with. Wow. You know, uh, Candan, an amazing job as young high and then Sterling, you know, I, I was hoping that I would get scenes with Chris with you and in it. I know with everybody and everybody. Yeah, in rewatching and rewatching these episodes, I just say it again, like as soon as you come on screen, it's just a blessing to this show. It instantly feels like family. Yeah. Thank you. The thing is, it's the writing. It's the, you know, it comes all the way from from the creator all the way down to, as I mentioned, the PA. It's just how can you not feel so comfortable in that environment? It's just every, I, it was like a dream. I'm almost five and a half years later. I can still feel it. Yeah. And basically, what an amazing show to come back to. Yeah. And uh, after, you know, after I did, this is us, I went on to do work on animal kingdom, my recurring role in that. And then after that, I told my wife, I said, I think this is my calling to come back to the business. Yeah. Yeah. I have 20. And the business I'm not going to wait for you. So I think this, this is, this is, wow. I think this is my time to come back. Well, I think I could speak for anybody, all of us and anyone who sees you perform that we are incredibly thankful that you are back. Yeah. Thank you. This industry needs you. Thank you. And, you know, and the thing is, uh, after working on the show, I didn't know that it's, it's going to be, you know, Kay had told me that, Oh, after this, you're going to have fans at the fans. Are you kidding me? Fans. And then I, the next day after a birth mother, yeah, we're starting from episode three. I had people adding me on Facebook, uh, sending friend requests. I wake up and, and I, what the, it's like 95 ads. I'm like, uh, yeah, I'll add everybody. I didn't know who they were. But a friend of mine said, you want some privacy? I said, well, I, I, I don't know how to, I'm not a social media person. Yeah. But after birth mother, I had even more ads, what an amazing character to play and, uh, during COVID, a person that reached me, uh, reached out to me from Syria. She had a friend and her themselves. They, they, they both watched this. This is us. They were like average fans and one of them had an aunt that passed and, and a mother that, that had COVID that might be passing soon. And so she was down. Um, and so her friend reached out to me on social and say, could you please record something to, to, to uplift their spirit. And so I did about five minutes worth of it. And I sent it over and, um, you know, she said it made a difference in, in, in the, uh, um, in how her friend was dealing with, with, with, with, with death and everything. Someone contacted me from Canada saying they had a death in the family and, and after watching a birth mother, um, they lift their spirits lifted. Someone from UK, uh, a couple of people from the UK, uh, reached out to me. Um, and then, of course, Japan, um, uh, Turkey. Wow. And then, of course, somebody, uh, a high school friend that I went to school with, um, had, would put episode six on repeat so she could fall asleep to the scenes of sterling Susie and myself. I mean, isn't it remarkable just this crazy job? We're so lucky to get to do like the impact that it can have is just, it's never, yeah. Not mind blowing to us. And a show like this with the subject matter, it's like it really, yeah, it's really great. It's a wild world we live in. Yeah. And all I want is just braces. Yeah. And look what you got. Yeah. Thank you, uh, for, for, for, for, thank you for everything. Thank you for your contribution. Cross again soon. I know. I really appreciate you having this conversation with us and taking the time and being a part of a very important, you know, chapter of our show's history. Ladies and gentlemen, Vienna, huh? Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was such a wonderful conversation. The sweetest, the kindest, so genuine, so just like present, like, I remember just being on set with him and being like, oh, yeah, this was your job. This wasn't anybody else's job. Yeah. It was meant for him. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty cool. It's nice when that person shows up on set. It always, it's always such a joy. And we had it happen many, many times. So. Oh, thank you for watching another episode of listening to watching. Hope you're watching. Yeah, because we look good doing all of that. Um, that was us. Um, please like, subscribe, support our sponsors, all of the things that help us take this to the, the finish line, which we, yeah, we're, we're talking a long guy. Very quickly. Tell you guys something else too. We haven't made a decision what happens after six, eight, six, eighteen or six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, eight. No, no, it was five, 16, six, eight, six, eight, six, eighteen. Thank you. We did eighteen. We have a decision. What's going to happen after six, eighteen? Yeah. We haven't. So I'm curious to you guys. If you have thoughts, should it just be done? Yeah. Should it continue? You want more things you want to hear? I want more of you guys. Oh, wait. I don't want to give up you guys. I know I don't have to anyway in real life. Come on. Come on. Life is going to be life and we're not going to see each other. And this is like such a joy. I feel you. So you guys have true crime. We'll go true crime. We'll just start. I want to be good at that. Ryan's already going to do paradise. She's going to do. Who wants to look in the camera? Who wants to say the name of the show? That was us. That was us. That was us. It's filmed at Rabbit Green Studios and produced by Rabbit Green Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us