The East Iris Immersive Podcast: KENNY ROGERS - Life's A Song

[Music] I'm Dustin Richardson and I'm surrounded by a fantastic crew on a fantastic day for a fantastic reason. I'm going to shortly just get a brief introduction from each one of you. Jason, why don't you introduce your crew? I'm Jason Hanky, I work at vector management as an artist manager and I had the pleasure of working with Kenny for many years and with you. Especially, but he was an amazing man and it was just one of my favorite clients ever to work with. There's lots of great memories and all around great guy like you here, you know, that all the stories are true. And so, yeah, and this is Wanda Rogers. I'm Wanda and I was married to Kenny for 28 years and we have twin boys who are now 20. And yeah, it was a wonderful, wonderful time in life and he loved you Jason and well, all of you. All of you go so far back with him and Kenny, everyone in the organization was more like a family. So it was really, really a beautiful thing. Keith Bougas and I was starting to work with Kenny back in the old Kenny Rogers in the first edition days around 1972. And I was fortunate enough to literally work with him his entire career after that. So it was a blessed life full of good times and good friends. And I always thought of Kenny as more of a good friend than a boss to me. So over here we have the legend that is David Leonard. We've done two allos for Kenny and Admos and I've been privileged to be a part of those. And I also worked with Kenny and Dolly when I worked at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles in the 80s on the Christmas record. I always saw on staff at Sunset Sound. So not 46 years with Kenny, but a lot of Christmas. You know, I'm a wild. I do my right is Mills Logan. And I've done quite a bit of that most mixing here for Universal. But yeah, I did a good stand with Kenny with Brent mayor of the producer and Jim MacKell co-producer and engineer all through the 90s. And lots of great stories, lots of great times. And Kenny was like every said more like a friend than our boss. And to my left we have Chris. But you know, Chris Paul. So my role in this little story here today is that I work at Universal for the archives division. And as it all ties in and we brought us all together today is as part of the job. UME catalog division of Universal is working with Jason and team to put this new project out. And they come through me to get the assets and put everything together and then we connected to the studio. Of course, when the mr. Leonard over there who did an amazing job producing this, but. That's the piece that ties us all together today is what kind of brought this together. And I think what comes out of it is what is going to be a great story. Yes, we're talking about the technology as well, but the project itself are talking about the man who's touched every person in this room. You know, whether we're new, but personally or not, but we know we've all had that a minute with him, which is amazing. Really quick. Keith. Yes, even worth him with Kenny for 47 years. What was your first interaction like? I mean, touring was so different. You know, again, we're talking in 1970, one or so when I first met him, you know. I mean, the first edition, they got around by driving their own selves around in a van. Yeah. They sit their own gear up. They had no crew whatsoever. You know, and so it's a long story how I got there. I ended up working with a sound, a little sound company after I finished college. And they did a little tour with Kenny Rogers in first edition of setting up PA in that type thing. So, I mean, all of the people in the first edition were just as down to earth as possible. And so during the show and after the show, we just say, what are you doing this go get some to eat in that type thing was all just five people in me. And we just go out and then eventually said, Hey, well, we're thinking about hiring a road manager. Would you want to have a go at it and stuff. So again, it was right place to the right time. But again, it was based on the whole idea that they were such great people. It was an easy decision for me to do because they were just what you'd want your co-workers to be and also be friends. You know, so it was easy. It seemed like it worked out. Yeah, well, I was it's a joke. I said I can never really find a really really good job. So I just kept I never had just one job. And so I had I couldn't find anything else to do. I love that. That's awesome. And a little bit of a segue and getting into life is like a song because that's probably what ended up bringing us all here today ultimately. And kind of putting a new twist on the album. But I would like to mention. And this is more than just us gathering here. It's a celebration today. It's Kenny's birthday. Yes. You had amazing while this works out that we get to do this on this day, his special day. It is so cool to have that. But let's talk a little bit about life is like a song. You two would probably be the best place to do that. This was really your idea and putting it together. Like in a story form of, you know, love, family and ending. And just how life is. And when Jason we were talking about it, it was all sounded so great. And you made it all come together. Well, you took a team of people. But yeah. It was an honor. And I think that just to honor. And your long time husband and all of our friend here, you know, was just. A really cool thing is we started putting it together and just seeing different sequences. And what songs he left behind. Like kind of seeing a theme, you know, come through here. And it came through really strong. And I think that. Like you say, if you start the first song and listen to the whole whole album, old school way. And you know, it runs. It's basically the story of life. And more specifically, the story of your life with him and with the boys eventually. And so I think everybody can relate to it. But we want to do something really special for Kenny's fans that hadn't heard this music out of the vaults. And that's something of big pieces. You guys have stuff. When is the vault? And you were just pulling stuff in some way. And it's important. Some of the things that he's down there in some capacity, right? Yeah. There's a lot of ways to strip down. Maybe kind of explain a little bit that like some of the tracks are stripped down to his vocal, right? And use new musicians and. And some capacity, right? Like how did this whole thing like, did you discover a box? You know, it's like, hey, and then go to Jason. And then he, what do you got? You know, how did that kind of come about? Where did that come into play? Hunt like that. Yeah. Yeah. It was sort of like we had we had this here and that here and turn over a bunch of rocks and actually it took. You know, a full team effort, you know, from Kenny's band and crew and we even had one of his crew members flying from Kansas City. And there was a there was a hard drive and a storage. And we pulled some stuff out, you know, we're getting stuff from everywhere, but yeah, I think that what we came up with for this was just fit together just right. And I think it's something that he would be proud of. That was the main thing that we tried to set out to do is give something great to the fans. But we wanted to make sure that it'd be something that Kenny was 100% behind and I feel like how it ended up that it really would be something that he would. It would be so. It was so interesting is and you know this Keith, one of Kenny's favorite things being out on tour and before going on stage, he would get the band together and they would do in a music room. He always wanted a music room set up, say that he could hang out and talk and warm his voice up and sing. And many of these songs were the songs that he was seeing. I heard love is a drug so many well quite a few of these songs. I heard it so many times and he's just say, hit such a head. And so he would be so proud of this project. No doubt about it. We talk about at most on these shows and we talk about technology. But what's great about this project is how emotional it was for each one of us in a different way. You know, or each capacity with Kenny obviously, he was a lot more personal than mine, but at the same time Kenny growing up as a kid, I've said it's a thousand times. You know, I had my music as a kid. I was the youngest. I was the baby. I was the baby of the family. My brother had his roster with sister had a very man love, you know. But Kenny was mom, dad, me and my brother and sister. You know, like he just fit mold and it just that whole time and it's such an influence. But what's great about this whole project and listening to it, it sounds new. Like it does feel fresh. And I know that's kind of what you said out to do. But his voice was just as strong in the first track. It is the last song is it was something from 1982. It's amazing. And I think this format does showcase that. And I think sitting in that room and I can we'll get into it. But it just felt like each one of us had a connection. Like Kenny was almost in this room with us. And I know it sounds really just and I'm not trying to get there. But there's something about the purity of this and the experience. It's not it's not changing the record. You know, your original plan of this record, the way it sounds, the way it's recorded is perfect. But David did to it. It just opens it up and enhances it a little bit, but he didn't change your vision. And I think that's a big piece of this conversation. How did you approach this project? Here's a done project by another producer and all these engineers and mextures. And now it's in your hands to make it sound different. Well, I mean, it's all about the voice. You know, Kenny had an amazing instrument. And he, it's just about keeping that, the story of the song. It's still about the songs. So it's just a different package to put the songs and spread some of the instrumentation around the room, but Kenny is still the focal point of the image and what you pay attention to and all this other candy comes around the room. But it's always been about the singer, you know? So that's where we're at. But it was, Jason did a great job putting all this stuff together because a lot of it was, like you said, like you touched on it. Some of what he had was archival stuff and some of what he added new, but it's all seamlessly done. It's really well done. And when you're doing the atmos, like the tracks you got were just multi tracks, right? Yeah. We're all, you're redoing this, you're creating their vision from the ground up, right? Well, you, you know, we, we, we faithfully try and stay with what they've done in the stereo. Yeah. So when you, you know, you listen to it, you, you're telling the same story, you're not reinventing the wheel, but yeah, we try and stay close to that. You know, it's interesting because like when Wanda talked about the music room, you know, it was every show, every city for 30 years. There was a music room, him to work with the band and go in and he would have some days he would have, we would sing the songs over his, sometimes the guys that band would play do be rather songs, so he would sing those songs. But what's interesting to listen to the mixes that we heard, it would be little bits of one song that would kind of remind me of a song that he did in the dressing room because I was putting him, it was like, I'm hearing him sing like you and I are talking. So it's not necessarily, I'm listening to something on the stereo or through the PA or whatever. I mean, I hear the nuance of his voice from four feet away. And so to listen to the mixes and that type of stuff and all of a sudden, he's four feet away, it's pretty cool. It really transports you, you know, like you're there while it's going down, you know, it's like the first time I'm hearing this all over, even though I've heard this 102 times. Yes. And you can pick out different things in the room by just, you know, tilting your head around the room. So it's pretty neat. Now with you mixing it in Dolby Atmos, like what's your approach? Like are you trying to, you know, gimmicks can get a little, I'm the most non gimmicky mixer. There we go. And I am the gimmick one. Well, there's a different approach. Every genre and anybody that gets to experience that format. Like if it serves the song, but if it doesn't serve the song, then I don't want to fly in around the room. Like why is the guitar player moving back to the board? Yeah. Yeah, kick drum on the ceiling. Yeah, that doesn't serve the song. So you got a very sensitive to the artists and what they were trying to do. But the song they were singing, the story, and it's not about the flying balls in the room. Right. But once in a while, if it's a little synthesizer part that has a little noise, I mean, I might move that around. You can have a B3, you can have a little swirl. You can do it. You can do it, you can do it. Flying toasts. Oh, man. I think what I think was it also is the fact you can get so much separation from things. You know, so which means that the voice could be crystal clear and not be affected by tones and other instruments overlapping on time. There's a lot of things in the stereo and with a lot of compression and stuff, it can get very competitive inside those two speakers. And I have most of your spread out and that you can get a lot more real estate to move stuff out. Yeah, it's funny. You also did the gambler album. That's the so far. That's the first two of Kenny's that we've been lucky to do. And it's funny because I was saying you before listening to that older record, excuse me, but his voice is pristine. Like you realize how much control it just kind of isolated just not to be like, "Why, you can really appreciate it. It's not compressed anymore." But you're just going to have a broad way of it come straight through. And it sounds as clear today as it didn't. It sounds clear to me obviously because it is cleaned up, but it's just really reinforced when it's asked. Well, it was interesting because I mixed his live concerts and you know, you can go into Lina Rita and you're just so much echo and reverberum all types of stuff. And I would do sound check in the afternoon and I'm thinking, "I'm going to die in here lately." I'm actually going to die. But then his got to his voice. I was always able to pull his voice in, no matter how bad the building was, because he had that edge on his voice. He had that little style that he sang. And I can always somehow get him over all the stupid stuff. And so it was made it easy. And that's that way. Yeah. And he had such a wonderful time. I mean, you can make it layout and it doesn't. Yeah. It never hurts. Yeah. And Mills has a good, a broad old story. And probably mid-90s, you know, Pro Tools was a certain become a thing. And that's probably '96, '97. And I was the Pro Tools up on the record, on this particular record, that Brent, Mayor, and Jim McCale were working on. And we had written a record in Kenny's Vocal, and I was comp in the vocal. And Jim's like, Jim McCale, the engineer said, "Hey, take his vibrato and make it last for like 30 seconds." It's kind of a very distinctive vibrato that was very steep and very much him. And so we did that. We all got to choke a lot of it, you know. And a little bit later, Kenny walks into the control room and Jim goes, "Hey, play that for a kid." I'm like, "You can't play that for the artist. I'm making fun of the artist." And so I play it and Kenny starts. He cracks up. He goes, "Hey, what? I think he's going to come here. I think he'll take a lesson." And this is, "Eee, he, he, he, it's more for like 30 seconds." He thought it was the best thing ever. I thought there's a great guy. I'm making fun of him a little bit. And he was right there with-- He loved it. He loved it. So I think he had some 15, 20 seconders in the first edition. Some of those are cool. I don't know. He acted as a student. He was pretty close to that. Yeah, he was always, we were always cutting up and he was just like, a hoot to be around. Yeah, Lionel makes, he'll make fun of him. Well, whenever they used to do a special here and there together, Lionel would make fun of him, holding and doing a note like that, like, you know, "Ragenize it." That's funny. "Ragenize." "Ragenize." "Ragenize it." So we had a sense of humor. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. We were talking about earlier, he has the fun making business. Yeah. If you're not having a little bit of fun, what you do, and that's right, you're doing something around. But it's also awesome, like, as people of our certain age, to hear that, you know, if you grow up, you know, when you don't like, do you want to meet the artist? You know, do you want to meet that illusion? Yeah. Good one to meet. And everything, you know, like I said before, you know, Jason Knight, there was a project he did when he was on Warner, that I was at Warner at the time, and he was down here in Nashville, and Kenny was there. But it was like old school in a way that he was walking door to door right down the hall, there's tracks, you know, and he was amazing, and everybody in the office popping out to say hi to him. It wasn't like, he was doing their thing, and he just saying his hi, and that was the best and seeing how happy he was and about it. After every concert, we would, our best hour would be trying to beat the crowd. And Kenny would come off stage and he would shake the locals' stay chance. He would go and shake everyone's hand to say thank you before he would leave. And even in the end, when his back was killing him, and he may have needed a little bit of assistance, he would still take his time. It goes, "That's what I say, thank you." You know, it was a beautiful thing. They meant it. He really meant it. The first time I witnessed that, I mean, it was just something to be old because, you know, you just don't see that from hardly any orders, you know, that would go and shake everybody's hand and say thank you for your help tonight from security guys to, you know, whoever it was backstage there. And it's just really special. You saw a great insight to the man that he was just by the way that he treated people like that. And he never took himself too seriously. Oh, he never did. But if anything, is Jason would pick him up to go, "This is that when you go to the radio stations and for interviews or anything you beat." Yeah, a lot of things are recording stuff, so. And Jason would pull up to the bus door and here comes Kenny and he would always bring him an ice cream call. And then he would go, "Oh, that's my talk, that's my talk." Every time. I got a drum stick and whatever. Yeah, exactly. Like the wish one you want. And they'd be like, "What's it going to be today?" But every time. It was his thing. Yeah. And then he didn't. It was his thank you. Yes. And if he didn't bring ice cream to the recording studio, then he's like, "I think we need to draw through and get a frosty." And then he'd be like, "Go through and get a big frosty." Yeah. We go get frosty's at Wendy's because we're from here. Unlike, do you really think this is the best idea before you go to do your vote? Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, we're good." And so also same thing with me. Like, make a wish people that he would meet at animation is all that type of stuff. He had always had, he never tried to rush through those. He took his time and made the people really feel like they were important to him. Yeah. So. Well, this is a relationship with Dali. Can you say this all the time? They could not see each other for two years and they would be together and invent something. And it was like they had seen each other yesterday. They never lost that chemistry and they're caring for each other. It was a fantastic relationship. It was so special. And Kenny would always say, "She tries her best when the cameras turn on to embarrass me." Like, she'll tell the dirtiest joke. And the rest, I mean, no offense to Dali. I love her. I think that's great. But he would get a kick out of just, she watched her. She's going to try to make me look face to her. They did. They truly loved each other. And there was always a moment when they were on two together where she would come in backstage before she was supposed to. to go on or whatever. And there'll be three or four minutes of just silly giggling and laughing and just like you say try to make them make him feel uncomfortable or something that they were really good friends. Very close, yeah. That's one of my favorite moments when I was around them. It was several times but was the recording the last studio and it wasn't a Christmas hotel. It might have been the one or one of the two I'm going to do with my little friends. And to be in the studio that day to see them sing together for the last time and just to see the way that Dolly works in the studio. It was really something amazing because she'll be like okay I'll give you the sweet and then she goes she runs it down she's a sweet. I'll give you some this one's going to have a lot of ad lips and I'm going to give this one a little more attitude, a little more thought and she go through about six, seven, eight times and then you'd have everything that you need to pick from. But it was really cool to see her at work. She is amazing and I remember when they were doing you can't make old friends. She came over to Kenny's booth and she said I just want you to know that if something happens to you I cannot sing this song you know when St. Peter meets us at the gate. And Kenny said you think I'm going before you? It was always a joke right? Do you have any memories of that session? I mean that's a staple Christmas song. That was I just remember the joy in the room. I mean Dolly's a hoot and it was just a fun time making that record. I was just a staff guy like you were at that time but it was just a lot of joy in the room. And he would do these Christmas shows. Was it always an annual thing or was it that probably 30 years? Yeah. It was started the day after Thanksgiving and depending on where we were sometimes we would have a production rehearsal in the city that we're playing for the first show in the day before Thanksgiving. Then Kenny would take the whole tour to some restaurant or some buffet where we have all that face given dinner together. And then the first show would be the day after Thanksgiving and we would go home the day before Christmas. And normally like 20 shows in 24 days at type stuff. It was a lot of work. Did you do that? You're Christmas shopping before Thanksgiving? Yeah. You did it in early time. And the best the best bunks are always full of presents. Yeah. And by the time the tour finished you had like this much room and you're a bunk because this full of gifts for everybody. So it sounds like Kenny was pretty fun in the studio. You know, whenever it came down to work what was that like? It was not hard to get both. At least when I was involved it was not hard to get both of this. I remember falling up when you used the Sony C800G when they first came out on his voice. And I remember hearing him saying through that for the first sound. I'm like, oh my God, that's Danny Rogers. And he was saying, you know, this was before, you know, there were some pro-teals like we were talking about, but it was not hard to get vocals on. No, it was great instruments. And you just, you kept, we kept everything. Especially once we got the pro-teals we didn't roll over anything because everything was great. It was never a, you know, a hard job. It was never like, oh my God, we're here for 12 hours saying it was never that. It was, you know, you know, I think he wanted to say one to call the pilots. It's time to go. I know he was always fast in the studio. He really was. I remember Ken Crayon telling this story when we were at dinner. He said that they were at Kenny Studio in LA. And Barry Gibb had written "Islands in the Stream." And so Ken said that Kenny's doing it, and he's like, I don't even like this song anymore because he just couldn't get it right. And Ken said, oh, you know what, Dolly has a place, Dolly Pardon has a place right down the street. Let me see if she's in town. And let's just try this song as a duet because it wasn't meant as a duet. It wasn't meant to do it. Yeah. And so she, of course, she comes to be Bob being in the studio. And Ken he said, he loved the song after that. And was she put her touch in there, changed everything. And he loved it. Yeah, great. That Barry Gibb was, they were on fire at that moment. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, they have gold, everything they do much in LA. What a gift that was. Yeah, I can't even imagine this song without, without the two of them without, without being a duet. Like that's really hard for me to fathom. Yeah. It does have a happy accident. Any fun roadstores, okay? That you've seen it all. Any fun, the better. Well, I'll go way back. Back to precision days. We were playing Vegas. Like we were at the, guess what's the Hilton? When Elvis was there, it was the Hilton International. What was that call of anyway, but Elvis was in the main showroom. And then we were in this lounge. And the lounge was pretty good size room, maybe 2,000 people. It would be BB King first set. And then the first edition did it. So we were always in to have him like three shows a night. And so there'd be sometimes an hour and a half or two between our sets because there's so many acts involved. And we'd always go to the coffee shop. And this is, like we would be there for two weeks at a time. So we knew all the people in the restaurants and all the type things. And so we were at the shows. We had a big table like this was all the first edition. And so I told the rest of my address today, today's birthday. I said, can we just get him some big Sunday and something so we all sing and that type of stuff. She said, I take care of it. So she brings this salad bowl that you know, you mix out about this big and head maybe 20 scoops of ice cream and nuts of bananas. That was about this big, you know. And we all say happy with that. And he says, God, guys, I don't know what to do. And we buried his head in this thing. And he came up and he's got beard full of stuff, bananas and cherries and nuts and whipped cream and stuff. And it was so out of character. He did something like that. He just goes out like, oh my God. That was one of my favorite stories. So that was just not like him at all that he had that since the Uber. He would just catch you everywhere. When you were working, like you had the ability to kind of hang out with you a little bit. Didn't you? Or you go off to do it? I went to his house and co-ed in the house in Culber, Georgia. We were doing vocals for a movie that he was that's what the music for. And I took it was all task MD 88. So it was all a little tape machines. And basically took a whole studio down there. And when I got there, I got it and I pulled it to the gates. I'm like, wow, it's place. And called the attendant. They let me in. And he met me at the front door. He said, come around back. And there's an easier place to get in. And he was so, and he said, but before we do that, let me take out tour of the whole place. So we get in the golf cart and he gives me a tour. And it is a beautiful 18 hole golf course that's the national whole house. And he showed me all the whole place in the front hour. I'm thinking, you're working man. And so anyway, so he's so friendly and so kind and showed me the whole place. And then we go in, we set up and we record the vocal. It was just me and him. And that had been the only time I'd ever worked with was just me and him. There was nobody else. And he was an absolute pleasure. And Consumet Pro, it went really well. And then he said, you want to hang it? You want to spend that? I said, well, I've got to work tomorrow on another gig. And so we sat on the couch. We had chocolate cake together. We watched a little TV. They said, you know, so you go, so you don't want to say we got we got a full time masseuse. You can get a massage. You know, he was so kind. And I thought he's just like another one of us, you know, and that was something I'll never forget. He loved people. What was your reaction when you first heard now? You've heard the original stereo version. I'm sure you heard heard a bunch of times. You had live with it, right? Because you put the sequencing together, which was amazing. And I tell, you know, not myself, but now you heard this atmosphere. And then I had my own personal effects, you know, feelings with it and how it was always something that seemed to touch somebody in that room that day. That's what I would like to say, right? Maybe we'll start with you. You know, what do you remember? I mean, I know you guys just got to kind of re-point yourself before we came in with some of the studio. So you guys can kind of appreciate, I think, like, ride. You cried. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of it. It was just because all of sudden, we have, it's been so much time against the friend. And then he's passed away. I've come from here. So I really had put his voice in the way that I'm pleased to hear. And so it's just sit there and all of sudden, he's like right here, right? Or for me, it was like real. It was just too real for me. Because it was so, yeah, I mean, it was so rich. And that's how I remember it singing and all that type of stuff. So it was emotional. Yeah. And imagine that. That's amazing. And I appreciate you saying that. I mean, that's what music is about. Yeah. The connection. That's, you know, that's, yeah, it's about, you know, feeling the connection with the artist. I mean, you had 46 years with them. So yeah, it was a bigger chunk of friendship involved because I spent a lot of time with him away from touring too. You know, it wasn't, you know, we'd play golf together, right? Go down the form or something like that. You know, there was even one time when he lit the LA, he called me to do some work on his house because I had to carve a discolce. He was building something. And I went knocked in the door and this guy answered, I said, it's Kenny there. And he said, Keith, what's wrong? He looked up and he had shaved his beard. Really? And I didn't recognize it. So one of those things that's like catches y'all a guard. But he was a friend to me more so than anything. I felt like Keith did it. I felt like he was going to come around the corner. I mean, the sound made it feel so real. It was really magical. It was warm. And then it made me sad that he wasn't going to come around the corner. It was very emotional and something you just think about for days, you know. And we should get to hear it. Like that for days. I wish I had that set up in my house. We can already. We can. Yeah. If he could be here and he is here with us, but in here, what you guys have put together, I mean, this, I mean, he would love this more than anything. How sound as a ball, I've done to this. Absolutely. He would appreciate this so much. I keep coming back to you Jason, because you were, you know, you sequences, you put this in, you guys, you know, both of you. But you put together this helmet, I know I'm really harping on it, but it just, it is. And it tells that story, but what's in my personal thing in this room that day. And I was almost as emotional as you. I mean, when we did the play back for everybody and there was a lot of not dry eyes, you know, in the house. And that's the beauty and that's what we get to really enjoy about animals, you know, these guys. I'm just the fan. I'm the fan of the sale right. So we're all fans, but these guys in in David, they get to Nexus and you guys live in the studio. And yeah, when it's animals, you're hearing on a massively insanely great system. And it's getting out there. And then you know, the Apple users or the Amazon users, he's just a head full. It's, it's good. We know it's going to be a little better right now, but it's getting there. But then the cars, you know, when you're in your car, you're going to hear this technology. You're going to be able to do this. What you heard, you're going to be able to be driving and it's going to be coming to your car speaker. So I just, I hope and I just wait for that to happen. But you will get an emotional connection to anything you know and have heard to death. And then you're hearing it this way. And you're like, oh, I'm hearing things. I never heard before. What were you expecting? Yeah, that's a good way to get men. Well, I have never heard anything that must have been for. So I was perfect. Yeah, it was. It was just, it was just, the bar was already here. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was just absolutely, I was overtaken when I first heard it. And if so, you did such a masterful job. It was just wonderful. I think we'd be remiss to if we didn't also just, you know, give us some shout outs to some of these. You know, if you look in the credits of the record, you can see all the producers, all the musicians, all the songwriters, of course, and all that. But the compilation work was amazing. I had to say, like putting all that, all the things together to find it all, you know, and. Well, that's great to hear. And we had some legends working on this record along with Kenny the legend, Tony Burnow, producing Brent Mayer, Kyle Lenin, Invictor Kraus. I'm going back to what you were talking about where we just stripped Kenny's pristine, isolated vocal out of two songs, because they were more. Along the lines of demos, as far as the music that was around them. So we wanted to really. Take those from the bottom up, from the ground up. And so Kyle and Victor, an amazing job on, I wish it was her aim and wonderful tonight. Beautiful. And, you know, it did sound like he was at the start of wonderful tonight that he was just sitting around with acoustic guitar. Which you don't hear a lot of on his recordings, especially a ball of like that. And it was just, you know, close your eyes. He's right there. Like you said, I kept thinking the same thing that you had mentioned. It was just like if he could just be here and experience this. And when I got done listening to the whole album, it was so exhilarating. I left the studio and I literally was drained, but in the best way possible. But it was just every emotion. I cried, I smiled, and I thought of what would it be like for him to hear this. And so it was just all these things. But again, you did just a fantastic job. I could not imagine hearing it in a better way. And my hope is the same as your guys. It's just like, so everybody could hear this album in that way. And so many other albums, because it's just a mind blown experience. You're like immersed into. It's the, I almost see this like this is a motion picture, but an audio motion picture. Is there a particular song that just like hit you the hardest? Yeah, I think just in the context of the whole album and the story of life, I think the one that hits the hardest for me besides goodbye, which really hits hard as the last track. But I will wait for you. It's just so cinematic. And that was produced solely by Kenny's long time, many decades-based player Chuck Jacobs. And he just did a wonderful job on that track. It's just beautiful. And David brought out all these things that I'd never heard in the, in the stereo mix, of course. And it just sounds like a movie in itself. But that was just really emotional because I almost see like, envision Kenny singing that from heaven, you know. And it's just very emotional, but that's probably the one that really got me. And then you got goodbye on the back end of the, the double shot. The double shot. Well, that was often times, that's often the comment I hear when, because anytime people come to my studio where it's here and listen to an apple mix, they almost always say the same thing for self, they're blown away. But they say, you know, I can hear stuff. I didn't hear in the original. It's not like we put stuff in there and turn stuff up. It's just that the isolation, be it itself, still glued together like a real mix. They can hear stuff that they may have heard in the original stereo mix, but it didn't, it didn't hit them the same way. And now you've got stuff coming out and you can hear everything. And that's almost unanimous has been the comment when most people hear apples for the first time. David and I had an interesting, interesting thing happen when we listen down to, I think it was MIT, the late off the record. You know, compressed and stereo, nobody caught this, but actually on the finish version of this song, there was a little ad lib that Kenny did at the end of the song, a little run. And we noticed that it was a little bit under, you know, so we did a little fixing on that. But that was the only thing that was in retouch. Yeah, nothing was, I mean, there was no tuning on any of that stuff. Nothing was fixed that way. It was really interesting though, because it was all layered up and nobody could hear it. A lot of times in the stereo, you know, the compression in the stereo, and everything's in there, but in Atmos, it opened up. You get to hear it in the room that it presents itself in a different way. You can, you know, can be more obvious to you or-- But it's almost always better too. You can hear it. It's a great way to listen. And I hope that everybody gets to hear it that way. And cars are, you know, it's going to be great in cars. Cars are amazing. That car over there in that parking lot, that's amazing. When you hear something that you've heard so many times, you know, you're thinking, "Okay, well, this song again." The first time I sat down and listened to Atmos, I heard a song that I had heard at least 1200 times throughout my life. And the first thing I thought was, "Wait." I didn't know that was there. You know, and then just like, "Whoa, looking around, trying to find where the sound's out." Because, of course, I can see sounds. But, you know, it's almost to what you're saying. You know, you can find a little bit of the imperfections. Because you can't hide anymore. If you put one it off the wall, kind of doing the periscope, I always think about it like, you know, and trying to explain this to someone who's never experienced it or had the opportunity to experience what Atmos sounds like. The easiest and simplest way I can put it is there's two speakers and there's a door right in between it. And if you can walk into that door and look around your song, you know, and, "Oh, there's the keyboard player." You know, all those things. But it makes me so happy, especially with like your situation to be able to come in, not really knowing what to expect. And then just bam, like hits you right in the forehead. You know, we had a few moments with artists in the beginning too. Well, and I'm sure the song you're referring to is the one that we all feel. Yes, yes, sir. So, you know, the full disclosure, it's a rocket. It was one of the, and the wife's special. And it, to me, it holds up for a lot of reasons. It was one of the first mix in the process. It was a great mix. It was really good. And Greg Penny did it. Yes, fantastic job. Credit to Greg Penny. Absolutely. But, you know, people are like, "Oh, that's a rocket, man." But I'm telling you, you know that song. Intimidly. And then you, for the first time in a contestant, well, you just said, "It's like a movie." That's why I would describe it something. I remember being dragged into the student's drive. But as to joining the studio across the street, I was here for a convention and Patsy, to come on over and listen to it. And I know what to expect. And, you know, the chills, you know, because it's just like you're getting enveloped by the song. And those guitars that slide over you. And you know all those points. But now you're like, "Oh, you're like in the middle of a movie." It's almost going to be racing you. And that, I know it sounds corny, but that's what it feels like. Everybody has their own experience. But we're not trying to reinvent the song. And that's a big piece of it. It's like some artists don't love. They think, "Well, you can't reinterpret my work." But we're not. Your work is pristine. And, you know what? And if you want to hear it on a CD, cassette, you know, so if you want to listen to it on a streaming service, call for it. You have it. This is just a new. In New Year's. Now there's been a few times though there was a project that did several years ago here in the artist said, "Hey, let's. I like what you're doing. Let's update the mixes. Take it a little differently." Yeah. You know, like as another vehicle, which we don't typically do, it's very unusual. But if the artist himself requested, make it a little bit different. I'm like, "Okay, so what do we do?" And he liked it. And I think that's the big piece. And that's why we have you here because we want you to hear it. It wasn't going to go live until you guys said, "You liked it." You could have came in the room and said, "Ooh, what'd you guys do?" Or, "This is not what we expect." It goes away. You know, and I think that's the other piece. And we like to kind of take the artist or wherever we can. It's the right approval. We're not trying to reinvent it. We're just trying to. - In a perfect world, the artist would be in every mix. - Right, correct, correct. - That's always a bit-- - And that's the goal of the format too now, with New Orleans. Like, they're writing to the format. Some people are just like, they love it. And they're literally saying, oh, well now I can put something up here. I can put something over here, and they're writing to it. And that's the exciting. - That's the thing. - It's just coming out now, the New Orleans and the new records coming out. They're thinking in that capacity because it's becoming the main stage. It's just great. - Yeah. - For like you talked about how close and intimate the sound can be in that format. You feel like you're inside of the mix almost. You're with the artist. I had an artist and the song came out maybe four or five years ago. So fairly recent. And okay, yeah, let's do the utmost thing. The label wants it. Let's get it done. But it was a ballad. And the first verse had a couple harmonies. Well, he heard it and it proved all the records and then came back and said, there's one song that I want to mix to eat. I'm like, okay, what do you want louder? What do you want quieter? He said, I need those harmonies out of the first verse. It's too much power because now it's so intimate whenever I'm listening to it. So there are artists getting involved whenever we get that opportunity that get in there and get the treat this like a moment, like a separate version of the mix. - Yeah. And it's just like this, I don't want people to hear it in this format with that part. Or I want another part in there. Let me record it and send it to you. And I've had people ask for more reverb. - Yeah, I have a little bit of reverb, because you know, why not? It's all around you. - It's not really a reverb. - It's like a blank. - I have something to throw in there about. Life is like a song that, but you correct me if I'm wrong in this, but one of the things that I think is really cool, and I think Kenny would think was cool about this, just kind of as a side note was, so you mixed the amorous version of Life is Like a Song on the board that Purple Rain was captured on. - Is that right? - And David himself was an engineer on Purple Rain and several other prints of. - Yeah, I started on Controversy 1999, Purple Rain, around the world in the day, under the cherry moon. - Those are pretty good, right? - It's stuff, yeah. - Okay, that board is still in there. - I thought that was really cool, kind of tidbit that he told me, and then you know, time that in a step further. So a little known fact, but I'm sure you guys may know this and possibly you guys, but Kenny in the, probably the mid or earlier mid 80s, he has prints to write a song for him or send him a song that maybe he had already written. And it had to be around the time, I think Purple Rain, when he is on top of the world, you know? And Kenny wasn't done too bad himself there, and the 83, 84 prints eventually sent him this song, and it's on the 1986 Kenny Rogers album, they don't make them like they used to. And it's called, "You're My Love," I think. And if you look at the credits, it's, he did honor the pseudonym, Joey Coco. (laughing) - It's a freaking dope. - That's great. - And, and anyway, so I just thought that time that in, Kenny would get a big kick out of it. And he would always tell me too that he wished that he still had the original demo that prints him because it was all prints, you know? All the instruments vocals. - Absolutely. - But somewhere over the years, he lost track, but he couldn't find it. But kind of a cool sign note. - I did a number of those where prints wrote songs for Sheena Easton, she, I was working with Sheena, and she asked me to ask, "Friends for a song," and he wrote "Trigger Walls." And that was, he was sitting in, and that was Alexander Nevermind. (laughing) And then the Bangles, Manic Monday, was a print song. So he writes a number of songs for other polyphonic songs. - I got kind of the opposite story from that one. George Martin produced, what album did he do on Kenny? He produced a-- - Oh, the Heart of the Matter. - So when he came over to talk to Kenny about the album, we were on tour. And so the big news of the day is, "Georgon Martin's gonna be in the dressing room at six o'clock." So, stay out. So of course we were all in the dressing room. (laughing) And he comes in and we're dying here, as Beatles, story, and all this type of stuff. But anyway, he brings this, we have a, you know, the dressing room stuff set up. That time it was cassettes. So, hence they were talking about the album. He's like, "Oh yeah, by the way, "Sir Paul has his cassettes or songs." He wrote for you that you might wonder to look this in the album. So they load them up in the cassette and they push the play button and they go through about half a song and then they go to the next song. And Kenny and George just look, both look each other and like, this is pure crap. (laughing) - Oh wow. - It was like Paul McCartney tried to write a country song because they have to have a tractor and a trunk truck in it or something like that, you know? And they literally took it out of the cassette deck into the trash can. - Oh. - And so I'm sitting by the trash can. - It's going like this, you know? - And I got that cassette out of that trash can. - Do you still have it? - It's somewhere in some house, but I still got it. - Right. Don't tell Paul about that. - Oh, yes. - I think you just did. - Yeah, I was just. - Working with Kenny's album stuff has been, it's for me, it's all about his voice, you know, it's just his presence in the room, you know, being right there. And you guys did a great job putting all that together. - There were so many people that worked on this and it was my pleasure to co-exact it, produce with you, Wanda and with Ken Levitton and Mike Rufig was hugely involved and all the team at UME, one of the really cool things about this album too is that Kenny's band and crew were involved. There was three members, long time members for decades of Kenny's band that produced tracks on this record, Chuck Jacobs, Steve Glass-Mire and Randy Dorman. So I think Kenny would also think that that was very cool because he was a very loyal guy and everybody that was out there on the road for all those decades, I don't think anyone longer than you, but it was such a, I know it was such a family and a brotherhood and. - I think I've been to the city earlier, whatever, but by the time that Kenny retired, I mean the newest member on our tour has been there 22 years. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So Wanda's so right about it, being one big family out there, yes. - This has been amazing. And here in some stories, and people so close to Kenny and the reactions to being able to bring something back and bring something that's been there and bring it back into the forefront as it should be and kind of breathe new life in the same music that we've been living with. And I'm certainly excited for more to come. - Absolutely. - But if you guys would join me, I'd like to sing Happy Birthday. - Happy Birthday. - Wow, it's a day of class. - Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday dear Kenny. - Awesome. - Thank you. - Thank you guys. - Thank you guys. You're awesome. And let's hear some more music. - Thank you guys. - Thank you very much. - Thank you so much. - And that wraps up another episode of this week's East Iris Immersive Podcast. Show was hosted by Chris Walsh, Dustin Richardson, and Mills Logan, recorded live at the East Iris Studios in Nashville, Tennessee. Video and sound recording provided by UMG's Video Services Creative, produced by Chris Walsh in volume.com. Big thanks go out to this week's guests, Wanda Rogers, Jason Hinky, Keith Bougos, and David Leonard. Also, special thanks to the artist and legend himself, Kenny Rogers. Bruce Phillips, Ken Levittin, and the vector management team, Aaron Duffy, Michelle Yoon, and Universal's assets and archives team, volume.com in our own East Iris Studio staff. And we're asking as always, if you enjoyed this show, leave us a like, a follow, and please subscribe if you'd like to watch this episode with extra studio content, then head over to volume.com/umg or check the East Iris Immersive Podcast page on YouTube. Thanks for listening and see you next time on the East Iris Immersive Podcast.