The Eagles' offensive coordinator search, Jalen Hurts, and more with The Athletic's Michael Silver

Some NFL sources familiar with the Eagles Organizational Mindset believe they might draft a quarterback this spring. Now that's a line that'll make you stop in your tracks. It came from a recent article by the Athletics Mike Silver called "The Problems Inside the Eagles Offense Went Far Beyond Kevin Petulo" and a ran less than a week after the Eagles were bounced from the playoffs by what proved to be a very beatable 49ers team. If you listen to the podcast at all this year, especially as the season went on, you know where I stand on this. The tool is lack of experience as a play-caller was an issue, but it might not have been the biggest one. The offensive line was beat up, star skill players underperformed, and Jalen Hertz did little to lift his team. Even more concerning, the quarterback might have been at the root of why the offense didn't evolve. When I saw that a plugged-in national reporter like Mike Silver was hearing, seeing, and writing about the same things, I thought his perspective would be worth sharing, and also getting it to how some of the factors that plugged the Eagles Offense in 2025 are affecting their search for a new offensive coordinator. You would think a lot of offensive coordinator candidates would be pining for this job. You know, recently fired at coaches, current offensive coordinators, people who want to take a jump up but have been really highly regarded. It seems like you would go Eagles 100 out of 100 unless you think the quarterback is going to get you fired, and you know how this league is, and people taught. I'm Jeff McLean, and this is Uncovering the Birds. A production of the Philadelphia Inquirer and KWW News Radio, original podcasts, with new episodes dropping throughout the off season. Joining me now is Mike Silver from The Athletic. Alright, let's do this, you ready? Let's rock and roll, baby! Mike, you wrote a really interesting story about Jalen Hurtz just a week or two ago after the season came to a crashing end, and you know, I've been dabbling a little bit in the Jalen Hurtz world for a while now, but you had some really interesting things in there, and I guess one of the most interesting, I spoke about this at the top was that the potential for the Eagles to kind of maybe draft a quarterback, you know, they've done that before, but do you think that's kind of more like, you know, hey, watch your back, or just something that you know, goes back to the old adage that how he rose, he used to always repeat that Ron Wolf would say, you know, draft a quarterback every year if you can. Yeah, I mean, it feels like it's closer to the first one, and the most glaring example of this in that building, as you know, was when Carson Wentz was the presumptive franchise quarterback and paid accordingly, had been injured during that Super Bowl run, and Nick Foles, of course, elevated and did his thing, but everybody was like, well, Carson Wentz is the guy, and they draft Jalen Hurtz in the second round, surprisingly. And then it was, hey, we're not phasing out Carson, we could spot him in, gives us a different dimension, but you know, it degenerated with Carson and with Doug, and then lo and behold, Jalen Hurtz was the franchise guy, took them to a Super Bowl, ended up winning another. So because he's actually been to two Super Bowls, one, one, as the MVP and played amazingly in the other, this would be more shocking if it were something that aggressive. But I think you know better, and I do, that clearly something was really off this past season, and it seems to be bleeding over into the offensive coordinator search. I knew that when Mike Silver arrived sometime, and when did you come like sometime in November that, yeah, the first time was like October, November, I think, yeah, right, as I got, oh, here we go. I've seen this show before when you come power shooting in, but of course, unlike most national guys, you came away with something and kept reporting and digging for information on what's going on with Jalen Hurtz and the offense, and you know, again, we touched that on here, and I touched that on my stories, it's just like, you know, a lot of the blame, and the fact that Kevin Petulo was, you know, removed from the spot, would suggest that he was primarily responsible for the for the ails of the offense this past year, or, you know, and Nick Seriani for putting him in that position, but, yeah, you can't play that, you can't have an offense, regress that much and not be the quarterback. And, you know, we've talked a little bit about here, where did you find out, you know, what kind of role that Hurtz play in the offensive struggles? You know, it just seems so complicated because it's not just technical, you know, there seem to be relationship issues, right? So we saw AJ Brown kind of spill that to the world ultimately after the social media posts. I think that's the day I was there. I think that's all the first day I was there. So, you know, it seems like relationships were part of the disconnect that was going on. So AJ Brown, you know, Sakewan, who's kind of regarded as this great teammate peacemaker was clearly throwing himself into that situation, trying to get that right. You know, I think Nick Seriani, for all the criticism he takes, does have this superpower to be able to handle the madness really well in that building. And so that's, you know, the first thing I would say to that is that, and I put this in my column, is that the perception that I've gotten from talking to people was that when Kellen Moore was there in that Super Bowl season in 24, he just kind of coached through it. Just said, I'm not indulging the quarterback. I'm not over communicating with him. I'm just going to tell people what we're running. We're going to obviously we're going to be a run first team with Sakewan Barkley in this great offensive line. And whatever, I'm calling the plays, I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about it. Now, he was a short time already. He's now that go to the New Orleans States. But it seems like maybe there was a little bit more of an effort to indulge Jalen coming off the Super Bowl MVP season. Maybe he changed, didn't want to run the ball as much. Maybe didn't feel as comfortable with certain things. You know, as you know, the offensive line had injuries. I think Sakewan was probably the same player, the line wasn't the same. Obviously, AJ Brown was frustrated and probably among others. And I think for good reason, all of which brings us to the offensive coordinator's search now and the perception of that job. And it's so strange to me because on paper you would go, you know, the Philadelphia Eagles, they are a winning organization for a while now, including the, you know, the two Super Bowl victories and three appearances in the last nine seasons now. I think the owner is great. He's different. He isn't, you know, sitting back and just be impassive. And it's better for some people than others. But in my mind, I think Jeffrey Lury is an owner you would absolutely want to work for. I think Nick does some really good things and is, you know, is rewarded accordingly, financially. But, you know, I think Nick kind of gets turned into a caricature sometimes. And I probably was guilty of it along with others early on. But, you know, he's pretty good at managing the uniqueness of that building. And then obviously how he who adds to the intensity day to day and that can be a scary thing or a good thing. But, you know, he's really, really good at acquiring players and having the guts to go after people and as assemble the really talented roster. And oh, by the way, Vic Fangio is one of the great defensive coordinators of all time. And usually, you know, can keep even the worst offense in any game. So you put all that together and you're like, man, you would think a lot of offensive coordinator candidates would be, you know, pining for this job, you know, recently fired at coaches, current offensive coordinators. People who want to take a jump up but have been really highly regarded. And here we are. And it's been a slow role. Yeah, we're into week two of it. And it's hard to not see that as some reflection on, you know, not only Nick Seriani and the role that he has there and almost, you know, I wouldn't say powerless, but certainly not the most entrenched head coach in the NFL. Though if you look at the list, I mean, it's crazy. How much turn of it? It's changing quickly. I think he's right now like the fifth most tenured head coach in the NFL. I mean, it isn't quite the Premier League over in Europe. They changed coaches within seasons all the time. But here in the NFL, it's gotten worse. I want to bring up a quick point to when you bring up, when you brought up Callum Moore, because you know, I've heard the same about just like there was kind of like a certain, like I wouldn't say a loofness with with Callum, but Callum would just like kind of like in his own way, just kind of tune out. I wouldn't say tune out. But just see the way he handled it, when it came to like, okay, we're doing this. We're not doing that. He just tuned it out, you know, and I think with Shane Steichen, who was the first real, the first offensive coordinator they had there, I think he had a little more grobby toss. Jalen was younger, so he'd go around with that with Brian Johnson from what I was told, you know, obviously the dynamic there, having known Jalen since he was a kid and the closest that he has with the Hertz family. I think that made it difficult for Brian sometimes to assert his authority with Jalen. And with Kevin, I think Kevin was certainly frustrated, but you know, coming off a Super Bowl win, and I think Jalen expect to certain things. I think there was a little bit of an overpowering there in terms of, you know, getting what he wanted. And that's part of the reason why, you know, the offense went downhill. And we mentioned, you know, not wanting to run as much, but the Eagles were on board with that to an extent. And, you know, it's like, again, they're ultimately responsible for this. Even though, you know, the quarterback has a lot of power, he has a lot of sway. He's the franchise. In some respects, you know, I do kind of fight back a little bit against the notion that, you know, Jalen is just kind of like running the organization and, and they're, and Nick and, and Kevin are just kind of like, oh, what was us? And, you know, so I do see the double, I do see it kind of, you know, pointing the finger at everybody involved in what happened this past year. And as you mentioned, the offensive line and, you know, the injuries there and JJ Brown, not performing as well and defense is kind of catered on, centering their, their focus on stopping the running game. But to get back to the coach, you know, the OC search, you know, I kind of, I just want to kind of frame this in the, in the right way. Because, you know, I originally reported that, you know, look, we all know that, you know, by who's leading the search. And, you know, I kind of like clarified a little bit like Nick is technically leading the search, right? I think it's in his contract. He just got an extension, you know, you hire your own coaches. What I meant to convey is how many people view it around the league and inside the building. I mean, let's, let's, you know, how he and Nick, excuse me, how he and Jeff aren't going to allow Nick to kind of like hire a best friend again or, you know, I'd be very surprised if Jim Bobcooter ends up being the selection. Because of his relationship with, relationship with Nick, I'm not saying it won't happen. But I, you know, it would suggest it. Maybe Nick has kind of held off how he and Nick just, you know, but that again, they're, they're probably at the point now where it's like, okay, who's left? I mean, if you look at the list of guys, Mike, let's, let's, let's go down them. The people they've interviewed. Well, Mike McDonald, you know, Mike pretty well having covered him wrote a book about, you know, all the guys that came out of the Shanahan system. And there it is. But why is everything now out in paperback, wherever woks are sold with a new epilogue, Eagle Fads alike the new epilogue, it covers the 2024 season. It's good stuff. Exactly. Right. I, you know, but, yeah, I think McDaniel was kind of the guy that they were most focused on. I'm not saying they went out and, you know, this is our guy. Number one, we're going to hire him. They had to talk with him. And from what I understood, it was just, you know, for various reasons, Mike wasn't going to come here. And then he was, you know, he, and he found the Los Angeles Chargers a more attractive situation going back to LA where his life is from and being closer to Sean McVeigh. I don't know how much that really factors into it. I mean, ultimately they were, they weren't worried about where she was from when he was the dolphin's head coach. Right. Right. I mean, look, he wants to work with Justin Herbert and he wants to work under Jim Harball. And he probably sees more opportunity there to maybe return to being a head coach. Right. I don't know. What do you know about McDaniel and how he ultimately chose the Chargers. And I wouldn't say over the Eagles, but certainly the Eagles were interested. Yeah. I don't know a lot of specifics about McDaniel, but I do know, like with Dave Ball, for example, who just got fired last year as the giant head coach had had a great run as Josh Allen's offensive coordinator to get the job. Josh Allen went from like a 55% passer to like 70s. You know, it's like unheard of. Right. So, um, Dave Ball was, you know, in both, in both cases, they were interviewing for some head coachy job, but Dave Ball was like, no, don't want Eagles. Don't want any part of that. Um, and then ended up going to tend to see which, you know, people have very different opinions on cam ward. And I think Brian Debal is one of those who loved him coming out and, and all that. But I mean, you're talking about, I'm going to bring back owner rakeeks. I know that you know that because we've been talking about this for a while, and it's, it's been a long time. But you're, you're judging an organization that has an owner that is going to be very hard to beat out for number one in those rakeeks in Jeffrey Lori. And you're against an organization that has an owner, Amy Adams, drunk, that probably when the list comes out, we'll first give thanks that Woody Johnson exists, for example. But she's been awful. And, you know, we'll see if Robert Salah could get a go in. They've tried to clean up the structure a little bit. Um, and maybe cam ward, you know, we'll, they'll unlock him. And maybe they'll get some better players on that roster. I mean, you could be the off at the coordinator for that team or you could be the off at the coordinator with like Jeff Stowell, that is your leg coach and a great line and Sichuan Barclay. And if not AJ Brown and Devote Smith, you know, Devote Smith and trade capital, like, I, you know, I just, like, I feel like the owner wants to win desperately and knows how the general manager will stop at nothing to improve the roster. And the head coach is like the guy in the middle of the storm who has, you know, like, sometimes a low frustration tolerance, but yet magically figures out how to turn that or has at least on a couple of occasions turned that into, you know, something that works like, I don't know, it seems like you would go eagles 100 out of 100 unless you think the quarterback is going to get you fired. And you know how this league is and and people talk. Now, as far as Jalen, I don't want to sit here from California and bang on him, you know, when you know much, much more about this, I mean, to be charitable to Jalen, he cares a lot, right? He's a perfectionist. He's he's constantly pushing himself and other people to try to be better. And, you know, there've been the Michael Jordan comparisons with the brand Jordan. I think it's different when you are Michael Jordan, you can be insufferable and relentlessly competitive and push everyone and get away with anything because you hit the game winning shot. Often, on the other hand, Jalen hurts, that's why I was kind of surprised with the 49er game because, you know, he has elevated in big games many times. And that was a big game for them. And I thought, okay, the offense has looked really flat all year, but if it's ever going to look a little fixed, you're going to see it now. And it looked just as bad as it had, you know, the other parts of the season, and he did not elevate. But yeah, I mean, to be like McDaniel Bryan-Dable, you know, I look at the list of who's left, you know, I think Matt Nagy's a really good coordinator, great people skills, went to the playoffs with Mitch Trebuski, had a pretty good record in Chicago, very close to Patrick Mahomes. I think the way that that exit from Kansas City was spun and the timing of it didn't do any favors to Nagy because he and Eddie were you to kind of talk, you know, months earlier. And Matt was like, hey, I'm not going to sign the contract. I'm just going to play it out this year because I think I can get a head coachy job. And if I don't, what I want is to be OC with play calling because I think I need to show that to get my second opportunity if I don't get it. Now, and Andy was like, I hear you. Good. Let's do that. The timing of that story's release made it look like it was this rationalization because Andy wanted to fire him and bring back Eric Bienamy. That's not my understanding of what happened. And I, you know, I'm kind of surprised that Nagy didn't get the Titans job and didn't get some more run, but be that as it may, you know, he's pretty good and great personality to handle all sorts of, you know, different people and potential drama. So I don't know what the Eagles will ultimately conclude, but that kind of jumps out at me. Just to backtrack a little bit because you're part of the Michael Jordan thing. And you and I both did some reporting on on that. Let's set this up. Jalen has in his locker stall, a quote from Michael Jordan. He's a part of the Michael Jordan brand. Jordan was his personal guest at the at the home opener this year. Like they have a relationship. He idolizes the cigar after the cigar and the trophy after he won the silver wool. I want to get to that in a second too. This is someone he idolizes. Hey, great guy to idolize. I mean, in terms of performance, right? Not maybe not necessarily in terms of how he treated people. I don't think Jalen is is necessarily like that. Although I've heard and you've mentioned this as well. Like I've heard other players talk about how like, you know, they'll bring up the Jordan thing and and Jalen will kind of like laugh about that or like, you know, you know, like kind of like almost like those comparisons. Now, you know, when he won the championship this past year, it was a very manufactured moment of him kind of in the hallway. I'm not trying to dissim or anything like this either because, you know, look, I have immense respect for him. He's a talented guy, huge character guy. But that being said, I think this Jordan thing is kind of like maybe overtaking a little bit and, you know, make sure all the cameras around him, make sure that he kind of, we all watched it and knelt down because it was very, it had the trophy around you, you know, because he did the same thing in the locker room after the NFC championship game. I think I was only want to caught this when he was like letting us a car. He called over the reporters to take the pictures of him. Well, it's just fine. Maybe just wanted to keep him for himself. But it did seem kind of like a little over the top. And whereas like when Jordan did that, you could feel the raw emotion of that moment because he had been waiting so long for it. It was just something that happened organically. This was no in no way shape or form organic. Now, I think what's happened since then is that players have picked up on this. And players can see through this stuff. And so that's, you know, I don't know if it's if it started prior to the winning the championship, but guys started calling him little Jordan as kind of a reference to, uh, uh, gentlemen, one of the belive Michael. And they would say to his face and it kind of a joking manner. Like this is the type of stuff that gets around the league. This is the type of stuff that Canada, they talk to the coaches that have been here. Like it doesn't take long for people to find out and and to do their own homework before they come into a situation. Yeah. Um, I think, you know, first of all, Jordan was a lot. And I had two pretty close friends who played with him. You know, Steve Kerr, who I grew up with and Dennis Rodman, who I did a book with and, you know, got very close to. So I saw it a lot. Um, but, you know, he was Michael Jordan. Like he was the best offensive and defensive player of his era by far the most clutch, a six time champion. You know, like, I mean, it was like, yeah, I mean, I guess Michael Jordan's going to have an edge to him and tell me what to do. And, you know, listen, he punched one of my good friends in the face, you know, really hard. And, uh, uh, but, um, you know, like a Patrick, my homes was doing that. It'd be like, I mean, he's been a five super balls. He's one three, you know, a couple of MVP's like, okay, um, I just think football's harder because it really is a team sport. Um, you know, St. Juan Barclay had an MVP type season last year. Uh, you know, you got a lot of great, great players and elite people. And I think the hardest part of it from what I could tell is that if you and I do that to each other, we're at a bar having beers, you know, laughing because that's just how our relationship is. But Jay was not really hang it out. And so, you know, is he a loner? Is he just kind of disconnected from his teammate's away from the facility? Does he have different priorities? You know, maybe all of that. But it's easier when it's enough one of the guys. And Joe Montana was one of the guys, Damirino, John L. Wei, even when they were huge, they were one of the guys, you know, Brady started out as one of the guys that they became harder, you know, Peyton, it was harder. But like when you're connected enough to the other people that you're vulnerable and they're vulnerable, then those jokes kind of, you know, they have a little meeting and maybe you, you know, adjust your behavior. I think this sounds more like they're trying to mess with them to make it like that. But I don't know if he's taking it in that spirit. It seems like he's like, yeah, I am Michael Jordan, play harder, care more. And again, I'm like you, I don't want to just just disjail it or it's I mean, you know, he played one of the greatest Super Bowls I've ever seen and didn't win MVP and didn't win the game. And then he, you know, obviously did amazingly at another one. He's, you know, he's got guts. The Tush push can't be fun. You know, we all roll our eyes, but like, that can't feel great. And a lot of quarterbacks try that and are nearly as successful. He clearly drives his legs and sacrifices his body and, you know, I, I would like to believe we're in a world where somebody who's really good at coaching offense and football would look at this opportunity and go, I love to try to make it work with J. let it hurts. A, I'll get a head coaching job out of it and B, like, yeah, I'm good. Nick's good. Jeffery's good. How is good? Vicks good. You know, like these players are good. I want to be part of the, you know, the place with all the alphas who are really good at this and I want to be one of them. So it is perplexed. Yeah, I agree. You know, because we have seen Joe play at a certain level and we have seen guys get him to play. I mean, other offensive coordinators who've in turn become head coaches, Shane Stuykin, Kelli Moore, as we talked about. Now we've seen guys get fired or in Kevin Vittula's case removed. We'll see what happens with him ultimately. So there is a flip side to that. And I guess guys are looking at that. I think with like Brian Dable, who coached Jalenhurtz at Alabama. In fact, he was part of the, the benching of Jalenhurtz. You know, you wonder what kind of factor that played into. Yeah, that's fair. That's a good point. Well, we know, but yeah, so you wonder if that, you know, he knows him as well as, not as well as anybody, but he knows him pretty well. And he still wouldn't come here. But yeah, I agree. Like I don't really understand that as much. I mean, like it's Justin Herbert going to elevate his game so much more is, you know, cam ward. I guess the way you look at it for Dable is that maybe he's only got one place to go, which is up, which can help him get a head coaching opportunity. Yeah, or maybe, I mean, maybe because it's a defensive head coach, it'll have 100% free reign though. I think Nick A would give free reign and be like, I'm not convinced that Nick isn't good at it. Like I get why people are like, it was only good when Shane was here and Kellyn was here. And when they weren't, it's, you know, it's Nick's fault too. And Nick's the head coach. So it's ultimately his fault. But like, I gotta believe Nick was an offensive coordinator and has been to two Super Bowls in one one, like can be value added if everything's like set up, right? So yeah, it's perplexed. Morris Mike Silver after this. Philly Sports fans, we get the obsession. We know you need more than the score in the stats. You need coverage that gives you the home field advantage. You need inquire sports. Whatever your game, we're on it with round the clock updates and all the insider info. Why? Because we share the obsession and we believe Philly, just like you. Get your Philly Sports fix at inquire.com/sports. Your home field advantage for all things Philly Sports. Hey, this is Brian Celter. I love producing uncovering the birds and working with Jeff. Just like I love working on the other podcast, we make it KYW News Radio in Philadelphia. Each week, you gotta check out the award-winning The Week in Philly. It's pretty self-explanatory. There's so much going on in a multifaceted city like Philadelphia that we put together a pod each week that looks back and ahead with the best reporting insights and perspectives from the KYW newsroom. We've also got Gone Cold Exploring Unsolved Murders in the city. Gone Cold team published a powerful mini-series called Ricochet that examines all the angles of the city's gun crisis. Bridging Philly brings you stories that connect communities with stories that matter most to you and one-on-one has great conversations with people in sports. You absolutely should know more about. Give the full slate of KYW News Radio original podcast and listen, download the free Odyssey app, follow KYW News Radio for Philly's best original podcasts right at your fingertips. I'm Jeff McLean and this is Uncovering the Birds. I'm talking with Mike Silver from The Athletic about his recent article on The Go's Offensive Wows. It's funny because you're a guy that's not here, but I don't think people here realize that the way Jan is viewed, especially in leak circles, is different than maybe people here in Philadelphia do. And I think that's part of the problem. I'm not trying to take anything away from Nick Serrionic because I think that power structure there, do you want to come work for a head coach? That quite frankly was probably what I was on the hot seat as I talked about the last podcast, was on the hot seat after 2023, was on the hot seat four games into the last season during that buy, which Jeffrey Laurie thought about the idea of moving on quite frankly. He ultimately didn't and they made changes and of course the rest of his history. So it is interesting how people here in Philadelphia view it versus outside. Well, I would say this too. There are very few things critical about Jalen Hertz that I wouldn't say or didn't say about cars at once in the same building. I think a lot of the issues where you're like, is he connected to teammates? Is he just relentlessly pushing people in a way that's off-putting? Is he stubborn? Is he alienating people around him? Like those same noises or whispers or rumblings were coming out about Carson and so then you go, is it the building itself that brings that out of these quarterbacks? Or is it the losing and the heightened attention on it? Because the same thing could be said about our Rogers and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. It's always interesting how that can be framed. Or maybe that's the type of quarterback they look to draft. It's a fascinating question but it's weird to be like, I don't want this to just, yeah, I want to be very clear. I probably said very similar things about Carson toward the end and he did some pretty good things too. It can't just be as simple as portraying it like, well, Jalen's not, Jalen's no good and no coaches want to coach him. It's 27 years old and I'm interested to see who they bring in because I feel like there does need to be somebody with some play calling experience number one. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen but I would do that. Somebody who has the author, like the Gravy Toss, the Jalen's going to listen to them, it's going to have some listen to them and it's going to have enough, you know, it took him a while to, like, I think the guy who listens to the most in the building is right now in Nixiriani and there was a period there where like, there was definitely some friction there but I think now Jalen has realized that Nick is going to have his back and I think that's what he probably wants more than anything. It'll be interesting to see, you know, like you mentioned Matt Nagy, I know Matt very well. Going all the way back when he was an unpaid intern for the Eagles and I think, you know, there could be something there. I know a lot of people seem as a retread but I think, you know, a guy who played the position, maybe not in the NFL, the arena league, he almost played in the NFL in a training camp game, in a preseason game and by the way, Matt Nagy exceptionally close with Patrick Bahomes, like just, you know, very, very, very close coach player relationship and was there when they drafted him, was there, you know, for this latest run the last few years, like, that's got to be, that's got to count for something if you're talking to Jalen heard to be like, well, here's how Patrick and I approached this. There's been, now, I kind of wanted to give a little clarification or some context on this other, it's kind of been, people have been throwing out there that like Jeff Stoutlin's position as a run game coordinator has kind of dissuaded candidates from, from trying for the job or they, you know, left like Mike McDaniel being one of them. From what I understand, like, like this is where I think things stand with Jeff Stoutlin, like he's not sure, I'm sure he's not sure like a lot of the assistance, whether he'll be back quite frankly and that's strange to say. But when you hire an offensive coordinator, you're more often than not want to give him the ability to hire the coaches that he wants under him. Justfully the line coach, but God, in this case, are you getting a better line coach than Jeff Stoutlin? I don't think so. Right. Well, exactly, but he does have that run game coordinator responsibly. And this is what I, from I understand at some point last season, that was pretty much taken away from him. Oh, you know, now I don't know if that was because he wasn't getting a job done or they just, they just decided, okay, we're going, we're better at doing this. I think, you know, if you look at prior to this year, how well they ran the ball and Jeff Stoutlin being in charge of the run game, you would think that you'd stick with the guy who's had that much success. As we mentioned, there were injuries in the offensive line. So, you know, I think, quite frankly, I'm just talking to people in the building, people close to him, people in the room with him, the players. I don't think Stoutlin was anywhere near, uh, you know, the chiefly responsible for the, the woes on the offensive line. And in the run game, certainly he's part of it. You can, you can, he's responsible for them. So I'm sure he would even say that, yeah, I got to do a better job. But that being said, I would be surprised if he returns as a run game coordinator, even if they bring in someone who does run his type of scheme. I think that's possibly something that could be taken away from him. And he'll come back as the offensive line coach and be able to focus strictly on getting these guys to play better. So I think that's where things stand. I don't think Stoutlin, someone suggested it was Stoutlin saying, I, you know, I'm not going to change the run game for this, like, no, I mean, he doesn't have that type of sway, you know, it's, it's not going to be Jeff Stoutlin. So I think that was ludicrous to be tossed out there. Um, the other thing is, is, you know, it was like people viewing Nick is like a joke and, um, you know, we talked a little bit about this, but, uh, you know, we talked a little bit, Nick, and you mentioned him. But I mean, if you, if you bring in some money without play calling experience, I guess there is a question of about like how much he will be involved. Like right now, they're, they had a second interview with the quarterback's coach Sean Manion, former player. He's only really been coaching for a couple of years. I wonder if he's going to have enough gravitas to, you know, and press down hurts. So I I'd be surprised if, if they go in that direction. Do you know anything about Sean Manion? Yeah, he's, uh, good dude. It was been part of that packer operation. You know, you, you see it when Malik Wallace comes into the rest of the league gave up on like, wow, they had that guy ready to play two years in a row. Like, wow, like Malik Wallace looks really good. Um, he's a young guy. Um, he was Jared Goff back up in LA, you know, um, but it would be, you know, I feel like Sean Manion's the type of guy you hire when you have, you know, your head coach is, you know, Mike McCarthy or so, you know, like someone really accomplished, um, as a play caller for years and years and years, and you're now grooming him and bringing up a lot where, um, you know, it's not that Nick, again, I think Nick probably has more value added as a strategist than he's getting credit for, but we had at least a perception this last season that Nick was letting his untested guy do it, and then Nick was kind of trying to, you know, help him steer. And whenever it was, it was so bad, you just don't want it to look at all like last year. So, you know, if Nick and Matt Negger are having a private high level conversation about offense, I think that's a good thing. I think that's good for Matt, good for Nick, good for Jalen, you know, we don't, we don't have to hear about it, but like, that's cool. They've, they've, they've both been around the block a little, um, I think it's harder if it's Sean Manion who's never done it. And that means Nick either has to do too much, um, or sit back and hope that it looks different to 2024 or 2025. I'm sorry. So the other names have been out there. Doffin's, uh, former O.C. Frank Smith, a Texans quarterback coach, Dara Johnson, uh, Cowboys' offensive coordinator Clayton Adams, the Cowboys denied these, uh, their request, uh, Broncos' offensive coordinator, Davis Webb, they put in a request for him, but seems like he's going to have head coaching opportunities somewhere down the pike or me, even this all season. So I don't think that they're going to have a chance of him. Author Smith apparently, they had conversations with him before we went to a high state. LSU offensive coordinator, Charlie Weiss Jr said he's staying there. I don't know if the Eagles were interested in hiring him. I'm surprised Cliff Kingsburg. We haven't heard much more, uh, about him. They did interview him, uh, a few years ago, uh, when they were trying to fill in the, you know, the spot when Brian Johnson was, was fired. Former Jets offensive coordinator Tanner, uh, angstrain is out there. They haven't been linked to him yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if maybe he's someone. I mean, they seem to be entering interviewing everybody. I'm sure some of that is being done to kind of get ideas, see what the landscape is and, and use that, uh, as an opportunity. Mike, I do have one last question for you. I think in this town, there's been this narrative that's been tossed out. Maybe it's something that the team would probably support. Is that the media and the intensity of the fan base is, is, is preventing some guys from wanting the coach here. And I got, I don't think that really matters much at all. I mean, you know how filled off he is. I mean, to me, the most intense, the two most intense guys in Philadelphia, uh, when it comes to Eagles, are the owner and the GM and the head coach. It's like, it's, it's, you know, no, listen, I mean, to me, I get all that and, you know, fan bases are fan bases, but like, to me, if you want to be the best and you want to elevate, you want to be around the best and the Eagles are full of the best and they would. It's like owner, GM, head coach, you know, a lot of guys in that locker room defensive coordinator. Like those guys are ballers, you know, and they know it and they should. And like, yeah, I want to be part of that. As long as, you know, you trust me to, you know, try to run it my way and I'm receptive to input and, you know, we're going to do it the way that we together think is best. I'm going to lay it out on the field. And so, yeah, I am perplexed. I think, yeah, it's a hard place to be in Philadelphia. Yeah, the fan base gets negative even after a Super Bowl victory. Yeah, people get fired when it doesn't go well, but you know, Shane Stuykin, Jonathan Ganon, Kellyn Moore, all became head coaches pretty quick. Uh, you know, and I just think to me, you come in and you shoot your shot. Yeah. Uh, well, you know, I, you know, I want to kind of talk people off the ledge. I know it's been taken a while here. We're now two weeks into the, into the search. And, you know, this isn't the first time the Eagles have had a prolonged search. They did when they hired Nick Sireani. They did when they hired Doug Peterson. They kind of like maybe back their way into some of those hires because they had, they, you know, had guys that they were really keyed on in both the circumstances that they didn't get. But, you know, I trust Jeffrey Lury. I think for the most part, his track record speaks for itself. Uh, I think how he roseman when he is involved, uh, his track record speaks for himself. I mean, he was the one who called Vic Fangio two years ago and got him in the line and said, Hey, come here, certainly with Nick Sireani's blessing. But, um, I think there is a kind of a, there is at least from people I talk around the league and inside the building, it's like, okay, you know, Nick is running this, but, uh, the, you know, the guys at the head of the table are going to ultimately decide what happens here. And we'll see, we'll see who they get. Um, I got prediction is Matt Nagy our prediction. I don't know what to predict. I mean, I wouldn't have predicted Declan Doyle was at the top of the list either. Um, and he didn't come. Uh, yeah, I don't, I don't know what to predict. But, um, if I had to, you know, I'm sure they care a lot what I think. Uh, I'd, I'd feel pretty good about Matt Nagy, given where they are. But, um, sadly, all I can do is weigh in on podcasts and in bars in San Francisco, very soon, hopefully, with the host of this podcast. Very soon and on that note, good way to end this. Mike, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Breed Mike's coverage of the NFL and the athletic. We've got a link to his article about the Eagles and the show notes. This has been uncovering the birds, a production of the Philadelphia Inquirer and KW News Radio original podcast. Our previous series KW News Radio is Brian Seltzer. Tom Rikard is KW News Radio's director podcasting. The executive producer from the Philadelphia Inquirer is Renee Eiffel. If you're enjoying uncovering the birds, leave us a rating and a review. Listen to uncovering the birds free on the Odyssey app, iHeartRadio, anywhere else you can get your podcast or go to enquire.com/podcast. I'm Jeff McClain. You can follow me on ex Blue Sky or Threads at Jeff underscore McClain. Research my name on any social media platform. Thanks for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]