The Disturbing Murders & Secrets Behind The REAL Amityville Horror House

In the fall of 1974, six members of this family were brutally murdered in their home in the quiet village of Amityville, New York. The only surviving member of this family massacre later confessed to being the killer. On trial, he repeatedly claimed that while in the home, he heard voices that led him to kill his entire family. The next family that moved into that very house experienced such a traumatic haunting that it led them to flee the home after only living there for 28 days. Never to return again. If you gave me one billion dollars, I wouldn't bring in the house again because it messed up my life and my husband's life terrible, horrible, horrible place. This is a case that is almost three podcasts episodes in one. There's a mass murder, a family's paranormal experience living in a haunted house, and quite possibly one of if not the most successful hoaxes of all time. We're wasting no time getting into this one, so please make sure that you are following the show wherever you listen to the podcasts and subscribed on YouTube, like, rate, and review the show because it really, really does help. And we're jumping in. My name is Brianna and I'm ha on the case. All of this started with the Defeo family. The head of the Defeo household, Ronald Joseph Sr. and his wife, Louise, had five children. Don, age 18, Allison, age 13, Mark age 12, and the youngest John, age 9. And the eldest, Ronald Jr. who went by butch. Ronald Sr. was a very successful businessman and from the outside gave everything to his family so that they could live a beautiful life. Together, they lived in this gorgeous waterfront property in this quiet little safe village of Emmityville, New York. The three-story home had six bedrooms, a heated pool and a very large boat house on the Emmityville River. The inside of the home was just as luxurious, decorated with ornate chandeliers, grand pianos, and custom life-size oil portraits of his entire family hanging in the stairwell estimated to have cost $50,000. Ronald was a successful businessman respected in the community in his personal life. He was seen as a very funny and generous man. His wife, Louise, was seen as the perfect homemaker. The couple's five children were also well liked throughout the small town, but as time went on, it became evident that their eldest son butch was severely troubled. Considering that the members of this family are not here to confirm either story or defend themselves, I'm going to be very careful with what I say next. There are allegations that the head of the defay of family Ronald was an extremely abusive man, that he was a cruel disciplinarian who was very hot and cold. He could quickly go from being very loving and affectionate to being violent and insulting and physically abusive towards his wife and his children. And it was after all the years of suffering cruelty at the hands of his own father that led butch down a very dark path. He began using extremely hard substances at only 17 years old. And the substances made him act out. He became very angry and violent. And after being expelled from high school, his father gave him a job working for the family business. This job came with a very generous salary and very little responsibilities. Quite the punishment for being kicked out of high school. But still, he would constantly miss work to just go hang out at the local bar. And by the time Ronald Jr. reached adulthood, he was addicted to hard substances and alcohol. And on the flip side of things, there's reports that it was actually butch. That was the true source of problems for the family. And as he got older and became addicted to these hard substances and alcohol, he was the one that became angry and violent, not his father. It was actually his father, Ronald Sr. that tried to do everything he could do to help his son. But the more he pushed, the more his son pulled away. And by the time of the tragedy of today's case, the entire Defeo family was walking on eggshells around Ronald Jr. And that brings us to November 13th, 1974. It was later into the evening, around 6.30 p.m. The patrons of the local dive Henry's bar were shaken when Ronald or butch stormed into the bar, screaming for help, screaming that he came home from work and found his parents shot dead in their bedroom. As he burst into the dive bar, butch dropped to his knees and began hysterically crying. Amongst the patrons at the bar was one of butch's best friend, a man named Bobby. And Bobby actually was the one that helped Rally a group of men to travel the one block to see what was going on. He came to the open the door and he was screaming, "Come on, help me. Somebody shot my mother for all of it." Everyone ran out of the bar and that was it. He told him, "No, I had to stay. I was 10 more." The old jumped in his car and took off. The group of seven men, butch, Bobby and five other guys that were at the bar, drove to 112 Ocean Avenue. When the seven men entered the family home, they noticed that it was dead quiet. Other than the family dog obsessively barking. Up on the second floor where the master bedroom was, they were met with the overwhelming stench of death. Inside the master bedroom, blood everywhere. Butch's parents, Ronald and Louise, laid face down in their beds. Other than the smell, the first thing they noticed was a large hole in big Ronnie's back. They had been shot dead, killed in their beds, likely murdered in their sleep. Next, the men went to the bedroom that the two youngest defoe boys slept in. When they stepped inside, they had to quickly step around, toys scattered all over the floor. On either side of the room was a bed, and both young boys laid face down, shot and killed in the beds. Their pajamas completely soaked in blood. In the right bed was 12-year-old Mark, and in the left bed was 9-year-old John. And it was at this time that 9-11 was called. Authorities would later find the two daughters 18-year-old Don and 13-year-old Allison shot and killed in their beds on the third floor. Six out of the seven members of the defoe family had been murdered. The last surviving member, 23-year-old Butch, was brought to the police station for his own protection. Since at first, he was telling the authorities that he believed that his entire family was killed by Marthio Hitman. Ronald Defeo, the son of the surviving son. Ronald is being saved by the Suffolk County police at this time. Why they started? Why? Because the six members of the family died, and we don't know why, and he's the sole remaining member. The auto suspect? He's not a suspect of this time. Few people in the neighborhood knew the family well, but those who didn't describe them as close dead. I think they were just very sweet, very religious people, very family-minded people. That's about what I could say, very good, very generous and tight, very close with their children. There's one element in the usual mass murder story which seems to be missing from this case. There's no sense of fear in this community, no feeling of a mass murderer on the loose. People we talk do seem to feel that whatever was the motive for this crime, it had something to do with the family. It's not something that's going to return to bother anyone else. In Amityville Long Island, Phil Barlow, New Center 4. And while they had him at the station, they obviously interviewed Butch, but that interview quickly became an interrogation. There were a lot of inconsistencies in history. The biggest one being the mob member that Butch was directly pointing fingers at, as being the one that he knew murdered his entire family, wasn't even in town at the time that the foe family was killed. And as they began grilling Butch, he began to crack. And the very next day after his family was killed, Ronald confessed to being the one that had murdered them. The trial began in October of 1975, nearly a year later. On trial, Ronald Jr. was represented by his defense attorney, William Weber. He pled not guilty by reason of insanity, claiming he had been hearing voices within his home that led him, forced him to kill his entire family. Well, based upon my conversation this morning with the defendant, Ronald DeFail, and based upon the nature of the charge, I don't think he presently understands the nature of the proceedings, and I don't think he can therefore properly assist in his defense. Simon says he'll continue trying to get the psychiatric examination for his client, and he is not ruled out the possibility that he may enter a plea of insanity. The case is expected to go to the Grand Jury on Monday, at that time the district attorney will enter evidence in all six murders. In the weeks leading up to the murders, he combided in friends that he felt like there was something inside of him, that he was not in control. In the very early morning hours of November 13th, 1974, Ronald woke up suddenly at 3.15 a.m., and by these voices was led to kill his family, grabbing a rifle and going to bedroom, to bedroom, shooting and killing them as they slept in their beds. He said that once it started, he couldn't stop, and it all happened really fast. But just claims of insanity were supported by a psychiatrist I was hired by his defense team, but the prosecution had their own psychiatrist, evaluate butch, who diagnosed him with anti-social personality disorder, but otherwise fully aware of his actions, fully aware of right and wrong at the time that he killed his family. But it is important to note that neither of these psychiatrists spoke or evaluated butch before he killed his family or immediately after. So I find it really hard for either of them to determine his sanity at the time that he killed his family when they wouldn't have evaluated him until an entire year after the murders took place. Butch Defeo was found guilty of six counts of second degree murder, and on December 4th, 1975 was sentenced to six life sentences with a minimum of 25 years to be served concurrently. He would be imprisoned until the day he died. In a little over a year after the Defeo family was murdered inside of their home, another family moved into 112 Ocean Avenue. The Lutz family. George Lutz and his wife Kathy both already owned homes at the time that they got married in July 1975 about five months prior. Kathy already had children from a previous marriage that was Daniel, age 9, Christopher, age 7, and Melissa, who went by Missy, she was the youngest at only five years old. After what felt like an eternity of house hunting, George and Kathy stumbled upon a listing for the now infamous colonial home on Ocean Avenue in Amityville, New York. Although listed for double, their budget, the family absolutely fell in love with the home. But that was before they learned of the horrors inside of it. But even after being told of the massacre that happened in this home about a year prior, they were under the feeling that a home does not hold memories, and just because something terrible happened in that home, nothing terrible would happen to them. And that there wouldn't necessarily be any terrible energy inside the home. They didn't believe in all that supernatural mumbo jumbo. So George and Kathy bought the home for the discounted price of $80,000. 13 months after the Defeo family, he was murdered inside the home, and two weeks after their son, brother and killer, was sentenced to life behind bars. On November 18th, 1975, the Lutz family moved into the home on 112 Ocean Avenue. And immediately after moving in, they claimed that bizarre things began to happen. Other than cleaning the evidence that six murders were committed inside the home, it was left more or less exactly the same. All of the Defeo's furniture was just left behind in the home, and the Lutz's were able to purchase it for a mere $400. It's even been reported that the family slept on the same bed frames that the family members were murdered in. Father Ray, a local priest, was called to do a blessing of the home. When he entered the bedroom that the two youngest of all members, Mark and John were murdered in, Father Ray reported being attacked and hearing a spirit yell at him to get out. In afterwards, the priest became ill and was continuously tormented by the spirits. According to George and Kathy Lutz, after moving into the home, all of their personalities suddenly changed. The children became brats, Kathy became more irritable with the most drastic change to his personality coming from George. George became very angry and cold, not just in his personality. George reported feeling constantly freezing and would spend hours sitting in front of the fireplace and would never get warm. George Lutz would wake up every single day at exactly 3.15 in the morning and would not be able to fall asleep. The children also reported that terrifying things would happen every single night at 3.15am, and this is the exact time that Ronnie Jr. reported suddenly waking up with the need to murder his entire family. One night, while outside the home, George claims that he saw the youngest child five-year-old Missy standing at her bedroom window looking down at him, and that a pig with glowing red eyes was standing behind five-year-old Missy. When George frantically ran upstairs to check on the five-year-old girl, she was just fast asleep in bed. There were no pigs in sight. And after this, the five-year-old girl began telling her mother and stepfather that she had made a friend, and this was a friend that was invisible to everyone else. And of course, it was a pig named Jody, and after they would find mysterious hoof prints in the snow around their home. They would also report that at night they would look out their windows and see the glowing red eyes of this pig Jody staring back at them. Kathy's husband and mother both witnessed Kathy transform into another person and seemed to rapidly age 60 years. She seemed to have transformed into a 90-year-old woman before their very eyes. On another occasion, George claims that his wife levitated off the bed. She would also claim to feel someone touching her when no one else was around. One night, George woke up to the sound of a marching band coming from downstairs when he got up to inspect the music, the sound suddenly stopped. But in the living room, the rug and the furniture were moved in a way that looked like someone was trying to make room for dancing, partying, or to perform, hundreds of flies would appear in the bedroom that Mark and John DeFoe were murdered in without explanation. A swarm of flies in the dead of winter. The family reported unexplained terrible smells, black stains appearing in their toilet bowl that no amount of bleach would be able to clean and green slime oozing from the walls, the floorboards, and the keyholes. Windows would shatter, doors would fly off the hinges, and banisters would completely rip off. Crucifixes on the wall would suddenly flip upside down. A secret room was found off of the basement that was not included on the home's original blueprint. This was a very small room, it was completely painted red, it almost looked like it was covered in blood, and the family's dog refused to enter the room and appeared petrified, and it was the only time the family reported ever seeing their dog scared. And on January 14, 1976, after a very terrifying night, after only living in the home for 28 days, the family packed up small bags, fled the home, never to return again, not even for the rest of their belongings. George and Kathy never recounted the events of that last terrifying night, reporting that it was too horrific to even say out loud. Many people have theorized that in that last terrifying night, after being the primary focus of the haunting, George Lutz was possessed by the spirits in the home just like Ronnie to kill his entire family. And it was only after leaving the home that the spirits lost the possession over George. But again, this is just one theory about what happened that last night in the home. What kind of things George happened physically, what were some of the things that hadn't scared you? Well, at first, just moving into the house was fine, it's a lovely house and we enjoyed moving in. Within a week, Kathy's hand had been touched by something that we discussed and couldn't explain. It was just something unseen within the daylight or was it? Yes, it's during the day. We also had hordes of flies that would appear within two rooms. And no matter how many times we would kill them, they would reappear. When you're talking about how many? Over 100. Over 100 flies. And then you'd go around and kill them, they'd be lying on the floor, you'd come back an hour later and they would be there more. Okay, there was something about Green's slime. What was that on the wall? It comes out of the walls, right? George did that happen. It was more of a gelatin kind of substance that we thought the children had somehow mixed something up and spilled it around the house. The next time it happened, the kids were at school and there was just no way to explain how it got there. We had extreme fluctuations in the heat, between 40 and 50 degree fluctuations. Three times the serviceman came in, one time he was there. He heard the furnace functioning and yet there was no heat within the house. The temperature was at 40 and yet there was that red 80. George, there was also something about black in the toilets. The water black and making the ceramic, the bowls or whatever. The white itself, it wasn't in the water. The China itself turned black. At first it was one bathroom and then another. So by the time the investigators got their number of them was still black. It was still that way. There was never any reasonable explanation. They had either of you had any experience before with your cult or the supernatural ever before. We didn't believe in it. Were you afraid for your children? Why didn't you leave earlier than the 28 days if you were terrified? Well, it was our house. First of all, we had never intended to give it up even after we moved out. We intended to find out what was wrong and move back in there. That's why the investigation was held. And people from different psychic research groups that at least we could check their credentials were called in and asked to come in. We've been asked many times why we stayed so long. It's very hard to remember the exact emotions or the moment why you would make a decision or why not. But you finally did make it up. By the time we left we had lost a considerable amount of weight. The death he was passing up quite regularly, I had lost over 26 pounds and we were just reacting from one happening to another. So you were generally thinking as we normally would. The lets couple shared their bizarre paranormal experience with author Jay Anson that turned their story into the best selling novel, The Amityville Horror. A true story. And this was an instant bestseller. It was a massive commercial success, selling millions of copies and spending 42 weeks on the bestseller's list. In their review, the LA Times called it fascinating and frightening. But similar with what happened to the priest, bizarre things began to surround this book and author. After giving out the original manuscript of his future bestseller novel to a few of his friends to read and give feedback, the story of Anson's friends had bizarre brushes with death after reading the manuscript and while in possession of the manuscript. The first friend that Jay Anson gave a copy of his manuscript to was driving back to the publisher with the copy of the manuscript when his car suddenly burst into flames. A second friend and this friend's son nearly drowned to death in their car while a copy of the original Amityville Horror manuscript was in the trunk of the car. When the trunk was open, the only thing that was dry even though it was completely submerged in water was the Amityville Horror manuscript. Jay Anson's third friend was given the first two chapters of the novel to read over and provide Anson with feedback. The same night she was given the chapters, a fire broke out in her home. She did not survive. But amongst the ash and rubble, the chapters were found unscathed in perfect condition. Even the author himself, Jay Anson, suffered a heart attack after he finished writing his novel, The Warrens. The same year, the Lutz family fled their home in 1976, married couple and world-renowned paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren visited the home to conduct an investigation and a séance. I'm sure for the great majority of you, Ed and Lorraine Warren need no introduction. Ed and Lorraine Warren are the most famous paranormal investigators in the entire world, especially after the conjuring horror movie franchise. Ed and Lorraine visited the home with a large team of other paranormal experts and most of the men visited this home with Ed and Lorraine reportedly suffered heart problems, which even resulted in death. And if you remember the author, Jay Anson also suffered a heart attack after he finished the novel. So is this proof of paranormal activity or just a coincidence? I mean, most men in America, I believe, die from heart disease. During the investigation and séance, Lorraine claimed to have an encounter with spirits so sinister that she felt that there was nothing she could do to help rid the home of spirits. And Ed and Lorraine later claimed that this was the most haunted house they had ever been in and the most severe paranormal encounters that they had ever experienced in their entire careers. Probably the most infamous thing to come out of this entire investigation was the photo. Cameras were set up on tripods to take photos throughout the home every few seconds and one of these photos captured reportedly shows the spirit of a little boy. Many non skeptics believe that the photo captured the ghosts of the youngest member of the Defeo family, nine-year-old John Defeo. Following the investigations conducted by the Warrens and the success of the Imdeville Horror novel, a blockbuster film by the same name premiered in 1979. And since then, there have been about 20 other films inspired by the supposed haunting, including the 2005 remake starring Ryan Reynolds. The original 1979 Imdeville Horror is definitely on my list, but the 2005 remake starring Ryan Reynolds as George Lutz is the only Imdeville Horror movie that I have ever personally seen. I was a very small child when I saw this movie about 20 years ago and this movie terrified me. Might not have helped that at the time I had a mean stepfather, just like George Lutz was apparently really mean while in this home, and also I was living in a brand new home just moved there and it honestly looked a lot like the home on 112 Ocean Avenue. Also, my bedroom was in the basement, which is where like a majority of the paranormal activity happened in the movie, and my bedroom had this big scary closet. The 2005 remake does deviate from the original source material quite a bit, with the most obvious example of this being the inclusion of the youngest Defeo child. Instead of the youngest Lutz child having a ghost friend pig named Jody, they turned Jody into the youngest daughter of the murdered Defeo family. And this little girl gave me nightmares. Let me know if you've seen this movie, and if you have seen this movie, if you remember the scene of Jody in the closet with the babysitter. Yeah, that was nightmare fuel. For a little setting year old me, I don't think I slept well for about a week. Along with the best selling novel, all of these movies were marketed as being based on a true story, and I think that's what really led to the wild success of this franchise. And I believe that a large majority of people that have seen these movies do not know, that it's extremely likely that the entire thing was a huge hoax. Yeah, everything I told you about what George Kathy Lutz and her three children apparently experienced, yeah, that probably did not happen. On that saying, with 100% certainty that it did not happen, there's a lot of people that do believe them, or at least believe a story of what happened. But yeah, it was probably fake. One of the first big pieces of evidence that the Lutz's baked their entire paranormal experience is the priest that they claimed blessed their home and then suffered supernatural encounters of his own during and after his time in the home. Well, that exact priest later came out and claimed that he never once even stepped foot inside the supposed haunted house, and that he only ever spoke to George Lutz over the phone. During the 28 days inside the home, George and Kathy Lutz never reported any of the strange happenings to the police. documented any of the phenomena or damage to their home with their cameras. And we know that they had cameras because they did record home videos while living in the home. But they never recorded any of the paranormal phenomena that took place while living in the home. And it turns out that some of the details of their story would have just been physically impossible. Like when they claimed to see hoof prints in the snow, well apparently it didn't even snow at all of this area in New York during the 28 days that the Lutz family occupied the home. The photo of the Ghost Boy taken during Ed and Lorraine Warren's paranormal investigation has been hailed one of the greatest pieces of evidence in a paranormal investigation. Well, this photo has been heavily scrutinized. With many people nowadays believing that the male in this photo was actually another investigator and the Warren's agent, Paul Bartz, who was in the home that day that the photo was taken. Not only has he kind of admitted to being the guy in the photo in emails, including this one that he allegedly wrote where he said, "I am the Paul Bartz that took part in the seance in the Amityville home some 32 years ago. I am convinced that we experienced an extraordinarily cutting and evil presence in the home and attempted to verify it with photography and other means." The image in the photo you mentioned does resemble me and I know that Ed and Lorraine went on record stating it was a ghost because I have great respect and admiration for them. I will say no more on the issue, allowing the legend of the most haunted house in America to continue. And when you compare photos of the supposed apparition next to Paul that were taken the same night, they have the exact same hair. You see the swish on the right side and then the curly swish on the left side, as well as both appear to be wearing plaid shirts. And you can see that Paul's shirt seems darker and the ghost boy's plaid shirt is a little bit lighter. Well the difference in the shirt has been debunked as well and has been explained by a difference in contrast in the black and white film used to take both of these photos. After what they claimed to have experienced, George and Kathy Lutz really came to Ronnie Defoe Jr.'s defense admit that the home was indeed haunted by evil demons and spirits. And that's probably why he killed his entire family. And some years later, Ronnie Defoe's lawyer, William Weber came out claiming that the haunting was completely made up by George, Kathy and himself over many glasses of wine in an effort to help his clients in sanity defense and also to make money off a book and movie deal. There were multiple lawsuits between the Lutz family and William Weber after this, with George and Kathy claiming that this never happened. This haunted house planning night over bottles of wine, William Weber was making that up. George and Kathy said that they could have never expected that their experience in this tiny little village of New York would have got in a book and a movie deal in the first place. And you do have to remember that this was the mid 1970s news didn't travel as fast as it can today. If you have a truly insane paranormal experience, you can go viral on TikTok in 10 seconds. So I get what they're saying. Why would they buy a home double what they could afford and then leave after 28 days, ruin their credit, leave all their belongings behind on the chance that maybe they could become rich and famous and that a book and 20 movies would be made about their experience that does seem a little far-fetched but their story also seems far-fetched. George and Kathy claim that William Weber was only making this story up because he tried to cash in after the success of the Amityville horror novel and he was blocked from receiving any money from the book sales. Until the day they died, George and Kathy Lutz remained adamant that they experienced a true haunting in their home, never once wavering from their story even after the couple got divorced in the 1980s. Both of them even passed a polygraph test in 1979. As adults, the Lut children have even said that they truly did experience a haunting but their stepfather George exaggerated a lot of what they experienced. It's also important to note that after Butch claimed to hear voices that led him to murder the six members of his family and the Lutz family fled the home after only 28 days, no family that has ever lived in this home has ever reported experiencing any paranormal phenomenon. Butch came out with his own testimony years later after all the novel and movie success saying that the only evil in the home were the cold-blooded murders that he committed against his family, that there were no ghosts, that there were no spirits and that the entire thing was indeed a hoax. So coming from Butch himself that really does say a lot. But even if spirits did not lead Butch defiled to murder his entire family, there is evidence that someone else might have. From the beginning of the investigation and throughout his trial, many investigators and experts have had a hard time believing that Butch acted alone in the conspiracy to murder his family. One of the biggest contributors to this theory is that it seems extremely unlikely that his family would have stayed asleep in their beds as Butch went room to room shooting and killing the other members of their family. Why would one man run the risk of his family waking up to the sound of loud gunshots? The particular rifle that was used did not have a silencer and one shot could be heard almost a mile away. There is zero evidence that any member of the family put up a fight. There is no evidence that there was a struggle or that any member of his family attempted to flee the home. Evidence was also uncovered that at least two different guns were used in the murders, and this finding was also cooperated by the medical examiner that performed the autopsy on the six murdered foes. Over the decades Butch told many stories about what happened the night that he killed his family. One of the most well-known stories that Butch defiled told was that his younger sister 18-year-old Don might have been involved. 25 years ago in November of 2000 the author of the night that the foes died met with Butch in prison and Butch reportedly confessed to him that his friends and sister Don took part in the murder of his family. He claimed that his sister 18-year-old Don was angry with their father and their parents over the fact that her parents disapproved of her boyfriend and it was Don that first brought up the idea of murdering their parents. And the night of November 13th after using large amounts of substances Butch and his friends agreed to assist Don in her sinister plan. And after their parents were killed Butch left the home to run after one of his friends and co-conspirators because this friend reportedly got cold feet about what was going on. And when Butch returned to the home he found that his sister Don took it upon herself to murder their three younger siblings which was not a part of the plan. And it was out of anger and revenge that Butch forced Don onto her bed and killed her as well. A lot of people do not believe this story at all. Although it is important to note that reportedly gunshot residue was found on Don's nightgown in a way that would suggest that she had fired a rifle. Other friends of Butch have been accused of being involved in the defoe family murders. There is evidence to suggest that more than one person was involved in this family being massacred but to this day no one has ever been officially accused or charged. And it's extremely likely that we will never have answers about what really did happen on that night in fall 1974. In the sleepy small town of Amityville, New York. Because in March of 2021, Ronald Defeo Jr passed away at the age of 69 years old. I am extremely interested to hear your thoughts on this case. I know there was like layers upon layers to it. There's so many different questions I need answering in this case and I think a really interesting dialogue and conversation could happen in the comments. Why it did Ronnie Jr. Murder his entire family. There are some people that would be able to slightly defend him if his parents were really abusive as he claims. But murdering your four little siblings because you don't like your dad. There is evidence to suggest that he really wanted to kill his entire family like his true motive was because he wanted to inherit all the money himself so let me know your thoughts about that. But was there anyone else involved? There's so much more to this case. So I highly suggest if you're interested in doing your own research as well. There is actually a decent amount of evidence that suggests that Ronald DeFaux Jr. did not act alone, so I need all of your thoughts on that. But also the haunting part. Do you think it's real? Do you think it was a hoax? Do you think it was real? But they exaggerated parts of it to sell more books. Like I said, extremely interested to hear your thoughts, but please be respectful. Because remember in this case, there really was a family that was really murdered. And afterwards, it seems like they've been lost in their own story. So let's remember Ronald Sr., his wife Louise, and their children, Don, Allison, Mark, and John. And that's all I have for this week's episode. And I will see you guys all next Friday when we are hot in the case once again.