The Devil You Know | Full Auto Friday | 6.26.2026

Well, hello, everybody. Welcome back. Man, it's been a heck of a week. I just got back off the road. No idea when this episode is going to come out, but I had the great pleasure of, I was going to say traveling to LA to sit down with Mike Rowe. I am not sure it is a great pleasure to travel to the city of Los Angeles, the city of angels, if you will. But Mike Rowe was one of the coolest dudes ever. I think we were going to talk for 90 minutes and we got close to three hours instead. I don't even remember what we talked about, which has oftentimes been a metric of the better conversations that I have had because you're just in it with the person and time flies by. And what a cool opportunity to sit down with somebody who has been a voice in my head for years, whether it's deadliest catcher, dirtiest jobs, that narration, unique voice, you know, easily identifiable. We'll say that. And he lived up to every level of expectation of being the cool person I thought he would be. I love what he stands for. I love the Mike Rowe works. I believe it's their foundation and just the emphasis on trades and constantly reminding people that blue collar work is not going anywhere. And that the trades, and I can say this, looking back at my own family, my father, my father's father, my father's father's father, we're all brick and stone Mason. The trades appear even where I live. My daughter's just entered into the welding world. She's working her fourth shift right now at her first welding job. It is, uh, if you were to use the analogy, the analogy of a farm field, it is rich and still growing rapidly. Is there a chance that AI could take over all of that? And we work for our water ration for sure. And I don't really know anything about AI. So I'm going to stop at that point, but it's out there and don't ever forget that college is great. Education is great. It's not always the keys that unlock success for everybody. And if that just doesn't fit with you or for you, or you don't feel drawn to that, I think that's okay. I was in the same boat. Shall we get into this? Here we go. Today's episode is brought to you by Ridge. Are you living in 2026? Is your wallet living in 2026? Are you still rocking the old school leather bifold, the old school leather trifold? How many cards do you have in your wallet? How many cards do you actually need in your wallet? Do you have more than 30? Are you like my dad? Does he have more than 50? It's hard to say. Nobody can count. If you're ready to join the rest of us in 2026, if you're looking for a unique, slim, modern design that holds up to 12 cards plus cash, you need to check out Ridge. They're made with premium materials like aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber, 50 plus colors and styles to choose from. All Ridge products have a lifetime warranty. This literally will be the last wallet you ever have to buy if you want it to be. 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For those of you who can't tell my sarcasm yet, completely joking, not a counselor, not a therapist, but I have a little bit of experience from the outside watching these two situations occur. And then we'll dive back into things that I probably do know a little bit more about. So here we go. Question one. I'm going to try to keep this one broad. My best guess is I'm going to try to keep this one broad. They were separated for a while, but she acknowledged that she didn't take that time to really reflect on their issues. Then when the divorce came, she was heartbroken and then tried to reconcile. Her husband was angry that she didn't express her thoughts and feelings during their separation. He was hurt and rebuffed her attempts to talk about anything other than their kids. He's a good man. He treated her so much better than many couples who have divorced. He was the primary breadwinner. He let her keep the house and also made sure to let her know to call him first if she needed repairs in an effort to help her save money. She has struggled with the dating scene ever since, largely because none of these guys lived up to her ex-husband. Recently, they both have talked about giving their relationship another chance. She has been working with a therapist to deal with a lot of various issues from growing up in a home where problems were not addressed or just pushed aside. She acknowledges she perpetuated the same avoidance behaviors while the ex tried to address them directly. I know this is a little bit long, but it is the most sustainable I can make a very long and complex story. If you address this on a Friday episode, please be general. I hope that was general enough. I changed some of the wording in there. I did get divorced one month shy of 20 years. I had experienced that. There was no attempted reconciliation. And for people who don't know, I am now remarried. I've been remarried for almost four years. But I have seen in my life this attempted, and I have seen this work, and I have seen this not. And I have seen this work, and I have seen this not. And I have seen this work, and I have seen this not work. And so what I will do is answer this not from the perspective of somebody who has gone through it, but from somebody who has watched it from the outside. And we have to be clear on that because what I'm going to say is based on what it looked like from the outside, not the inner workings of what was going on on the inside. So we'll just say we're not even going to put a timeline on it. A couple that has split, and it went one of two directions. They didn't try to reconcile. We're not going to talk about that. They did try to reconcile. I've seen it where it worked and where it didn't. So I'll go with the situation that worked first, leaving out every single identifiable detail and just say the relationship got to a place where the husband and wife decided that they were going to head in different directions. And in this particular instance, actually in the two that I have watched from the outside, the timeline was anywhere between 12 to 24 months of separation. Both of the individuals during that time period, to my knowledge, did reenter the dating scene at different times, I believe, but in totality, they both eventually reentered the dating scene, whether it was to combat either feeling isolated or lonely or to look for another partner. I didn't ask them directly. The point is that they did in between that time of attempting to reconcile, go back out and see other people, which in this instance where it, or in the two instances where they were able to come back together, it wasn't an issue, especially when they were able to openly talk about those experiences. To the degree and depth that made both parties comfortable and then move on beyond that. We'll talk about where it, and it didn't work on the other side of that as well too. And essentially spoiler alert, it was the opposite of that. It was resentment because of somebody's actions during that separation time, even though there should have been really no expectations of control of that person's behavior. We'll, we'll flip that coin here in a minute and coming back together for the two couples that I can think of clearly where I have seen this work. I think that the key factor was that during that time where they were separated, and I would have to make an assumption that they were in fact, even though perhaps they felt a twinge of, or a desire to return to what it was, they did seem to be externally looking and moving on or wanting to move on, making an attempt to move on with their life. But in doing so, they didn't just take a dry erase marker and erase everything that had happened. They did a tremendous amount of work on themselves to work through either what had happened in that relationship so they could understand and take ownership and accountability of their hand in that. And I know it's super easy, and I can say this as somebody who went through a contentious divorce. It is incredibly easy to just sit there metaphorically on this side of the table and just machine gun blast the other side and point your finger. This happened because you fill in the blank and just ad nauseam, never ending, outgoing, outgoing, outgoing. I am not an expert in relationships. I have seen enough relationships, been involved in enough relationships to realize, and this doesn't even necessarily mean romantically, but just interactions with other people and friendships. I have yet to see any where it's completely one-sided, where it is literally 100% the actions of somebody else. that caused the eventual decline and destruction of a relationship. and sometimes there's horrendous people out there that do horrendous things. And you could say, well, what if they did this? Isn't that completely their fault? Sure, what led up to that? Were there boundaries that were established? Were there warning signs associated with that? It's just, in my experience so far, I've never seen it lie 100% on the other side of the table. But in those environments where it's contentious, boy, is it easy to feel that way. And you actually are robbing yourself of your ability to be objective about your own behavior, to sit with the level of discomfort that you should have when you fall short of the person that you want to be, and then to learn from those things if you can work through them. The two instances where I saw couples come back together, one had children, one did not have children, and they are actually both still together, which I think is a great thing. They spent most of that time working on themselves and working on the impact that the end of that relationship had. And I'm speaking for them at this point. I haven't asked them this. Even after going out into the dating pool, I have to assume that what they realized is that what they had left or agreed to put down was equal, if not better, than what they were seeing in that pool. And maybe that was just a metric of time at that point. Maybe they hadn't met or found the right person, leave that out there as a variable. And again, I'm making an assumption without a direct conversation with these people. But I think what they realized is that they saw more in what they had put down behind them than what they were potentially seeing in front of them. And because they had worked through personal or combined issues in that relationship, I think they were able to see that they were in a better place to go back and re-engage with their previous partner, who, by the way, both sides of that equation were doing this work. It wasn't one side and then the other wasn't doing that. We'll get to that on the other side of the coin. When they both had committed to doing that, I assume that they both found their way to a place where they could finally get past what I'm gonna call the merry-go-round. And the merry-go-round are unresolved issues in relationships, probably mid- to longer-term relationships, that instead of actually dealing with or working your way through, you put them on the merry-go-round and it just spins around. And you can have a conversation that could lead to be contentious that has absolutely nothing to do with one of the issues on that merry-go-round, but that horse comes around and whatever kicked it off attaches itself to whatever the fresh or the suspicious issue is. And you never work your way through it. It's just this getting back on the same issue or multiple issues over and over and over again. And it is the most frustrating, anxiety-creating, stomach-turning environment to live in. It is the worst. And if you're able to take some of those horses or all of your horses off of the merry-go-round, I think you really have the ability, two people that separated, to come back and work through and build on not only the good times, but the bad times and reconnect. I mean, for the person who was married for 17 years, clearly there was something that drew you to this person. Clearly there was admiration and love and respect. And these are a spectrum. These are a dial, not a switch. They can change over time. I am more in love with Leah now than the day that we got married. For sure. I know her better. I understand her better. And the person that she is, I don't have the vocabulary to describe. It's not always that way. And for my ex-wife, I probably was going in the other direction. I was maybe dialing down how much she cared about me in those avenues. And I am an incredibly flawed person. I do the best that I can. I always haven't been the best expression of myself. I haven't always said the right thing. I haven't always done the right things or done the right things, regardless of my intent or desire behind that. And that's on me to work through. My hand in the divorce that I went through is mine to deal with. I could throw it on the merry-go-round, but I do my absolute best not to. Because what I don't want to do is have something from a previous relationship jump off of that and get on a new merry-go-round with the environment and world that I am living in now. It's the last thing that I would ever want. The only way to prevent that is to have a relationship with my ex-wife. My opinion is to deal with those things. And the people that are able to do that and that are able to reconnect with that person that clearly drew them together for almost two decades, I've seen it work. If they do the work, if they can communicate openly and honestly and deeply and get past whatever it is that got them to the point where it shattered to begin with, to repair that to the best of their ability, lay a new foundation on top of that, and then I'm going to be able to do that. And move forward. If it is based in that, in improving yourself, in the realization that, you know what? Maybe we gave up a little bit too early. I regret that I didn't fight harder or do this or work through this or say that. I think you have a chance. I have four examples that I can think of firsthand. Two did work, two didn't. I don't want to say this is a coin toss because I don't think it is. But let's go to the other side of the coin now and talk about what I have seen from the outside where it didn't work. And I think it's a combination of just two things. The first one is this. The work that I described, the combined work, either A, only occurred in one party, or B, didn't occur in either. But layered on top of that, and again, this is an assumption because it's not a direct conversation that I've had with either of these two. And now we're on the failure side of the coin where both of them, it went a different direction. Same situation, though. They both reentered the dating pool. They both either dated other people or potentially were looking for another partner or just to move past the situation that they were in. And my assumption, and this is more just based on listening to what they said relatively repetitively, was, the dating scene is a nightmare. I might as well go back to the devil that I know. My words, not theirs. But I hope you can intuitively understand the difference. On the success side, it was people who had done a tremendous amount of work and realized, you know what? I'm not done yet. I still have feelings for this person. I am still connected to this person in a way. I'm going to at least reach out and see if they feel the same. On the failure side, it wasn't that. It was, I am so frustrated with the dating scene. This is exhausting. Screw it. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Maybe those things didn't really happen. Maybe if we just give it another try, it's going to sort itself out. Absent doing any of the work that those successful couples went through individually and combined, leaving all that out. Let's just give it another go because the devil that I came from is better than the devil. And the one that I might find accidentally. And I don't think that's the way to do it. Especially when you layer on top of that, they didn't do the work. Also in that, in the two couples that I have seen where it hasn't worked, there was a deep level of resentment. And in one of them, it was from the wife and the other one, it was from the husband. Where whatever their behavior was during the separation, whether that be, dating other people, even at all, or maybe the number of people that they dated or their perceived velocity that they got back into the dating pool, fill in the blank. One side of that had an issue. And they were not able to openly discuss that time period. And one of the ones I saw had a massive rift is where one of those parties tried to describe that time period and their behavior as very innocuous and not very active. And I say that with no judgment whatsoever. Go date at the, velocity and quantity that you want to, especially if you're not, you're no longer in a marriage, do what you feel is appropriate for you. But the point is in this situation, one of those parties try to describe their behavior during that time period as anything but what it actually was, which we can call that what it is, lying, whether lying by omission or lying directly. And then when the other party found that out after they were already working their way towards seeing if they could make it work, kind of coming back together, guess what happened? The truth eventually comes out, which is what it does is if you give it enough time in social circles, they talk. And I do believe in this situation, it was others that had seen this individual out and about, if you will. And that word started getting its way back and the justification or the explanation of those behaviors became really difficult. And that utterly shattered it right there. Resentment built almost instantly. And I can't say that I blame them because what was determined is that one of those parties was lying. you can guess where that ended up going, into the garbage can, the relationship that is. So I totally think it's possible, but I think the why, why do you want to try round two absolutely matters. I think, since I have two positive examples and two negative examples, I think that if you can work through, unpack and unload the merry-go-round from your previous relationship together and build a foundation on that, I think it's very, very possible. If you can't, and you think that you're just going to go back to what you were doing because it's easier or the person that you were with because it's easier, I haven't seen it work yet. But again, my N is a one. I have only two on each side of this. So hopefully that at least helps when it comes to insight. Again, I've only seen this from the outside perspective. I do know it's possible, but if you don't do the work up front, I mean, there's work in any relationship and I can only imagine what it would be like when a relationship fractures and you have to come back together or try to, you don't have to, but if you make the choice to come back together, you're either going to do the work on the tail end when everything is falling apart and you're fighting your way through this and probably going back towards it was the way that it went the first time, or you can do the work in the space between being together and up front to make sure you have a foundation to build on. But in both of those, there's work. And yeah, I would rather just do the work up front. There's not a lot of benefit to putting off what could be done today. That is difficult. And I totally get why people want to put it off. Maybe the conversations are uncomfortable. Maybe you're worried that if you tell the truth about who you were or how you acted in that time, you're not going to be able to do the work. And I think that's a good way to do that. Maybe you're worried that if you tell the truth about who you were or how you acted in that time where you weren't together, that there might be an issue and that the person that you are deciding you want to get back together with might change their mind. Well, guess what? It's probably better off to have them make that decision up front than five years down the road when they realize that you are lying to them. So do the work up front. That's what I'm saying. Maybe that's what I'll end this particular question with. Totally possible. Really be sure of your why. Why is it that you are doing this? Is it because truly you think that there was something that could have been changed and you've done the work? And you are still connected to that previous person? Or is it just the tapestry in front of you looks so horrible that it's just screw it. I'll just go back to what it was. Maybe it wasn't that bad. It probably was that bad. The brain is really good at rounding things, in my opinion, that are painful and making you believe that maybe it wasn't that bad. I truly believe that's the only reason that women have more than one child, because it certainly doesn't look like a and it's an awesome experience. Painless experience. It certainly doesn't look like that. So hopefully that answered your question. That's all I have for number one. Right here, right at the tip of that lake. And, you know, we should look for boat traffic, maybe coming in here like this, splitting off, maybe splitting off down here as well, too. And perhaps there's a few other areas of interest down here on the map as well. As you can tell, super easy to erase it. Again, this app is amazing. Over here in the lower left hand side, you have all these different options. I have it in 2D mode right now, but you could throw it. This is a way where you can expand your topography. be careful trying to compel behavior from people using the nuclear option. Especially if you really do care about the person and you don't want it to end and it doesn't have the outcome that you wanted it to, what tools are you left with at that point? Very limited, if any. So just food for thought on that. Let's move on here. However, the fact that we train BJJ at the same gym is essentially why the breakups I initiated didn't last. Training BJJ is the best part of our relationship and it keeps us seeing each other regularly because you have the same training schedule. I've looked at changing gyms, but there aren't great options in my area. I feel like I'm hyper-focused on the BJJ aspect and it's keeping me from seeing this objectively and potentially finding someone who might be a better overall match. I have other active hobbies like strength training and running, but at this point I can't imagine dating someone new who doesn't do BJJ. So it feels like there are limited options. My three-part question, is it worth stepping away from BJJ to get a better perspective on the relationship and make any changes that are needed? Let's just answer these sequentially. I would say no, because what you have described is that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is providing for you something that is very beneficial in this moment. My suggestion would be this. If possible, maybe align your training schedule, even for a short period of time, so you are not meeting this person at class. So you can get an understanding and a separation of the two. Because right now in the same bucket that is being mixed up a little bit is your Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and what it's providing for you and your relationship with this person. You don't need to give up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to figure out or have a little bit more clarity and objectivity as to this level of combination. Now this might be unsettling a little bit for your schedule. Cool. Deal with it. Figure out a way to, if you really care and you really want to get this answer, figure out a way to deal with this. Align your schedule, get up earlier, later, whatever it may be. Determine in that bucket, put it through a filter. How much of this is Jiu-Jitsu? How much of this is the relationship? It's probably not going to be possible if you keep running into each other and training with each other at the gym. So if possible, that would be my suggestion there. Especially if it's providing you something that is beneficial. Don't throw that away. Actually, if you did, or if you took a break, it would, I think it would make it even harder because especially if it's providing you some level of physical activity with mental clarity and ability to focus, you don't want to remove that in a place where you need to make a decision. So I think this is question number two. Since you met Leah through BJJ, what advice can you give for navigating relationships that overlap with BJJ? I did meet Leah in Jiu-Jitsu. The first time we ever met, she was the coach of the very first class that my buddy Nelson ever took me to. I did meet her in Jiu-Jitsu. And I knew her for two years. I'd have to, I'd really have to sit down with the calendar and take a look at it, but well over a year, probably two years before anything beyond a coach and a romantic type relationship where we essentially started dating. Jiu-Jitsu is an intimate sport. And I don't mean that from a sexual nature. You're very close. There are gyms where it's dominated by men. There are gyms that have women's only classes and men's only classes, and they don't mix. There are gyms where they do mix and you have to learn how to train. In my opinion, you need to be able to train with anybody from a size perspective and age perspective. Um, I'm not talking about, you know, training with young children. They have their own classes and people that they can train with, but a mixed, a mixed group class, it can, there's a level of physical contact that you need to have in order to be able to train with them. If you're not used to it, it might be a little bit uncomfortable, but then once you get into Jiu-Jitsu, you'll realize it's probably the last thing on your mind, unless you were an absolute creeper, because when somebody is trying to choke me, whether it's a man or a woman, the last thing I am thinking about is anything other than trying to prevent them from choking me. Um, but I'm sure there are some weird people out there that that's what they're into. Avoid those people at all costs. And if you're a gym owner and you recognize those people, show them the door as soon as humanly possible, because they will destroy your culture. Um, what I would say, and this is based off talking with her and, uh, not after receiving this email, but in talking with Leah about what she has seen people dating in the gym, what she would say is this, it's tough. If it works out, awesome. If it doesn't work out, it can be difficult because of the intimate nature of the training environment that I had already talked about, which I know you are already familiar with. That's more for the audience listening. Um, and so I would say, if you're a gym owner, if you're a gym owner, if you're a gym owner, um, and the way that Leah has described it is more often than not, one person will end up leaving. And she has said more often than not, it is the woman who will end up leaving. And I didn't press farther into why that was the case. I will do so. And if this ever comes up again, I'll answer that. And I can add that to her answer, but it should be, you know, there are examples of people, men and women who try to run through the whole gym from a partner perspective. And I don't think anybody really looks at that incredibly. Favorably. I have never seen it where somebody will openly object to that, but it can get complicated and there can be resentment and you can start seeing people avoid each other and it can create social gaps and chasms. And I don't, I don't think that's the right environment for that. So I, the advice I think Leah would give would be, be careful and just understand what it is that you are getting into and understand the potential complications. If it doesn't work out, are you going to be comfortable seeing that? Are you not? And those are questions that you have to answer for yourself. Also, since you and Leah met when you were both not super young, how dare you? I am not even halfway through my life. What advice can you both give about keeping a positive perspective when it feels like everyone else has settled down when you're starting over and the narrative that everyone good is already taken? Don't listen to the narrative. Good is a relative. Good is a relative term. And I understand what you're saying. And this is the issue that I have with things like Instagram, social media platforms. What you see is everybody having it figured out wavetops, highlight moments, success achievements. And what you don't see is the struggle that it has. And I think that's what I'm trying to say here. I think that's what I'm trying to say here. Comparison being the thief of joy is a quote that, man, it holds true across just about everything. My first piece of advice is don't compare your situation to anybody else's. I think, and what I just said is probably impossible, but the closer that you can get to that, I assure you the happier that you will be. Comparison in status, wealth, position, achievement, accomplishment, possessions, relationship. It is ridiculous because it doesn't matter what somebody else has in comparison to what you have. What matters is what you want, what you need, what you have in comparison to those things and how it is servicing you. I know a lot of people with a lot of really nice things and they're not serving them as well as you may think, but people would aspire to have them because it looks better. Or that their situation is better and it isn't always the case. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but be careful judging that book by its cover. So, you know, everybody else being settled down or age associated with getting married. When I first got married, I was 23 years old and I don't even recognize the young man that I was at 23. I think at a core level, I was probably the same of myself, but I was an absolute dumpster fire trying to figure out who I was as a human being. And I did the best that I could. But as I said, I think in the first question, I have fallen short of the person that I've wanted to be so many times. And I look back and I wish I could slap that 23 year old around. Getting married again to Leah, I'm 40 now, I've been married for almost 40. So I was 44 when I got married the second time. And a lot of people would probably say, man, that's late. Everybody's already settled down and all the good ones are gone. Well, I'm here to tell you my own personal experience is at least proof that I have one data point that that isn't true. I mean, Leah is legitimately my person. It has redefined what I think about relationships, what I think about love, communication, compassion, so many different things. And if I would have just had this mindset of, oh, all the good ones are gone. And I just became a hermit up on the side of a mountain here in Montana, which by the way, is where the Unabomber is from. So if I had gone full Montana there's one of two ways, a wealthy collector or a museum bought his shack and they now possess it somewhere. So I'm sure Google has the answers to that. I just don't feel like Googling it in this moment. I digress. It wasn't true. All the good ones weren't gone. Don't be in a rush to make a long-term decision. You always have time and sometimes time to make that decision. is going to be your most valuable asset. As I mentioned briefly in the first question, do the work upfront, take the time upfront to get yourself settled, sorted, to know what you want, to understand, to be objective and reflective in who you are and where you want to be. I couldn't define any of those things when I was 23. I am much better at that now, later in life. I can, I'd be able to give you an argument for getting married young and also for getting married later in life, which isn't the question that you have, but I guess my point is this. Everyone good isn't already taken and it's okay to start over. Age is a number. You can give it as much power as you want, assign to it the level of power that you want it to have or ignore it and don't measure yourself against other people and where they were or what they had from a relationship status perspective at that age, because it doesn't matter. You're not going to ever live a second of their life. So don't worry about it. Worry about yourself. If you can take the time, I truly believe that you have the ability to find your person or as close to it. And if you are able to, I think most people would be appreciative of taking that time. They would not regret taking a little bit more time to find that right person. So take that narrative, ball it up on a piece of paper and throw it away or light it on fire. If you happen to read this, thank you for taking the time to do so. I would love to attend one of Leah's seminars someday. You absolutely should. She's going to have another one in Costa Rica, a combined surfing and jujitsu. I want to say May, but I will confirm on that as we get closer to next year and also may make a way out to Montana to visit your coffee shop. You should. And the coffee shop is two blocks from the gym. So you can go train with Leah, hit her evening class, get some time out of the gym environment that you're in right now. Continue to train BJJ without the significant other that you're asking for. And I'll see you in the next one. These questions about to continue to work on yourself, boom, killing two birds with one stone. So hopefully that helped. That is all I have for question number two, question number three, Andy, probably an easy one for you. June 28th, which will be two days after this episode comes out is coming up the anniversary of red wings. Like many years back with the lone survivor book or when the lone survivor book came out, I fell hard for this story and heroism spoken of in the narrative. Now, after decades and watching the footage on YouTube, listening to people from the community provide what they say are facts in context, this is likely not what it was sold to be. And like you have stated Marcus, meaning Marcus Latrell has to live with it, his actions or inactions and trauma that he lived through. My teenager has watched the videos online of the ambush and watch the movie. All I have done is try to explain to them how difficult of a situation that must have been getting your ass shot off while running or falling down a mountain. And that we need brave soldiers that will do dangerous things. Is it as simple as saying it was one of many touch, uh, tough days in the GWAT where we lost great men. How would you, someone from the community who likely has more information than most, who is a good man of character, humility, and integrity lay out that day and situation for young adults to appreciate it? Thank you. Wow. Interesting question. Let me say this too. There is a political article that written very recently, uh, by a man named Ross. And I'm not going to attempt to say his last name because I don't have it sitting in front of me. I have already recorded a nearly, let me check right here. Actually I have enhanced a three and a half hour episode that is in the queue to be released where we work our way sequentially through operation Red Wings. And I opened that episode with saying that the one thing I didn't want to do in discussing that situation was to diminish in any way, the bravery and sacrifice of the people that were there and lost their lives. Because there are two separate issues in my opinion, when it comes to that particular operation. I don't know when that episode is going to come out, but Ross did an incredible amount of research. And I think it's going to be a great episode. I think it's going to be a great episode. episode. or what you need to focus on other than that. Even knowing the risk and the likelihood, they still went. And to me, if you want to inspire people, that's what you should focus on. For the community, if there are things behind that selflessness and service and sacrifice that can be learned from and focus on and taught, they should be. But those are two different worlds. You are outside of that. Do exactly what you already did. Focus on the fact that we need people who, when necessary, can exhibit bravery, service, and sacrifice beyond what most can comprehend, up to and including giving away, surrendering everything that they may ever have so that the rest of us can keep having tomorrows. The tactics, the mistakes beyond that, I'm not sure it matters outside of the community. So that's my best piece of advice. I hope that I answered that for you. There is a lot to appreciate in that story. And I hope that it's not lost. And that is actually my concern with it. The controversy surrounding it takes place. It takes away from the bravery and sacrifice. And that shouldn't be the case. But perhaps there didn't need to be controversy to begin with. And that is the subject of the conversation I had for three plus hours with Ross. So hopefully that answers your question. That episode will probably be out in a couple weeks. All right. Last question. Military tied in as well. I'm a civilian that works for AV. I'm a civilian that works for a defense. Industry base. But I work around a lot of former military. We also have active duty Navy and Air Force personnel assigned to our facility. Everyone knows how poorly military members are paid. However, I'm constantly astonished to hear stories of how poorly these people are treated in regards to health care, the denial of coverage and things that are obviously service related. OK. Maybe we'll do this one sentence by sentence. The military pay charts are available online. So anybody looking at going into the military or goes and talks, to a recruiter, they're going to show you what you're going to get paid. It's literally an Excel spreadsheet. It is the amount of time you've been in the military and you go upwards for rank and it starts going up. When I was in at least, if you joined as an E1 after two years, if you had a heartbeat, you were an E2. After two years, you had a heartbeat, you were an E3. And then it became a testing schedule beyond that with loose timelines associated or at least minimum amounts of time in that rank. You can look at it. There's special pays. There is housing pay. There is hazardous duty pay. There's travel pay. All of these things. I know what I pay people at the coffee shop. And perhaps in comparison to your industry, the defense industrial base, which I think is more a description of an industry than your actual business. Perhaps the pay scale looks laughable in comparison to you. But you have to also remember that most people entering the military are at the earlier stages of their employable career. So I guess my question to you is, what are you talking about? When I joined the military? At the age of 17, I got into the military when I was 18 years old. First off, by the way, I don't think any recruiter ever says to somebody, hey, if you're looking for the latest and greatest get-rich scheme, here's what you need to join the military as an E2. Because like I said, the math is the math and it's consumer-facing. So you may not like what the military members are paid, but I'm here to tell you right now, given the fact that the vast majority of people are entering at those earlier years, it's actually very appropriate. So you're a little bit outside of your depth here. I think what you're doing is you're comparing it to what you make or what your industry pays. Also, there are some horrible stories out there when it comes to health care and denial of coverage for things that are obviously service-related. But there are a tremendous amount of stories that are success as well. I personally have never had a bad experience at the VA or at my engagement with health care with the military. So there's a data point for you right there. You are painting with a very large broom and you are focusing. You are focusing only on the negative things, which I will say this, they make the headlines a lot more than the success stories of people who are having great experiences. And I'm not here to say that the VA isn't as fucked up as a football bat. In many ways, they are. But each individual facility is going to net different types of treatment. So let's not paint with a broom. Although there are horrible stories, we cannot discount the fact that the VA is and has been doing an immense amount of work to improve, whether it's budgetary, personnel. systems, efficiencies, all of those things that can't be discounted either. So let's not just focus here on being a negative Nancy. Let's look at this with a little bit more of a holistic lens. I guess my question is, considering this and considering how unpopular our current war with Iran is, considering our government's apparent need to constantly be getting us involved in endless foreign wars, even though it's very clear we don't tend to win and they are mostly not in the interest of the American people. Why in God's name would anyone want to join the military these days? Given current circumstances, it seems like joining the military is not something I would advise someone I cared about to do. You put yourself at great personal risk, get paid nothing and end up fighting a bullshit war. So some politician can end up can up his stock price. Then if you're lucky enough to live, they refuse you decent health care, even if you are injured. So what would the counter to this be? And I mean this not sarcastically, but I'm really interested in your opinion. OK, I'll give it to you. My counter to this is. Pretty simple. You don't know what you're talking about. You clearly. Don't understand. A journey through military service. And that's OK, because it is obvious that you never had one yourself, but have fully formed opinions based on partial information, which I find to be a place that can be tenuous when it comes to the accuracy. You put yourself at great personal risk. Maybe sometimes are you aware of the vast, vast amount of occupational roles inside of the military? I am aware that what makes the news is often the kinetic and ballistic nature of that, but that is probably 15 percent, if not 10 percent of the overall military infrastructure that directly engages in combat operations. So what great personal risk are you talking about during the 20 years of the global war on terror? I would say it was a little bit higher because there were things like the individual augmentations. There were things like the military and the MNT program surging national guard troops, all of those things. I completely agree that the risk would have been higher. But from what I can tell it in talking to people who are still in, that doesn't seem to be still going on. So not everybody is going to be placed at great personal risk. And the ones that are are likely going to be the ones that pursue those occupations, meaning that they are taking accountability and agency over the course that they take throughout their military career. You clearly don't understand how occupations and roles are assigned. Specifically at what we'll call the tip of the spear or the kinetic nature of the military. It is very, very, very unlikely that you're going to end up there accidentally. And there are a tremendous amount of roles in the military where I would say you don't put yourself at great personal risk. You get paid nothing. You know nothing about what you're talking about, if that's what you say. Again, let's look at the lens of what age are these people joining. Let's layer in the additional pays that can become, depending on the job that you go, the additional pays. And let's take the pay structure out of this for a second, too. And this is what I recommend to people when they join the military. I tell them this. Listen, the military is going to get their pound of flesh out of you, which is fine. You're signing the dotted line, so you know that's going to happen. Make sure you get your pound of flesh as well. And that is all the vocational training, the educational support, all of the other programs that the military has that you can take full access and just full gas pedal to the floor until they're saying use every single program that you can. You'd be shocked at the number of programs that exist in the military that are outside of a paycheck, that are not quantified into that Excel spreadsheet, let alone the professional lessons that you can learn. At a minimum, coming out of the military, you should have an understanding of leadership. I'm not saying you are a leader, but you're going to see examples of good and bad leadership. You'll have examples of teamwork, small teams, medium, large teams, logistics, infrastructure, communication, all of these things. So, yeah, nobody goes into the military to become a millionaire, but not all value is associated with a dollar figure, which it seems to be your key metric, which is fine. But you are missing the greater picture if you think that the dollar sign that shows up the 1st and the 15th is the only thing that matters when it comes to military service. You end up fighting a bullshit war so some politician can up his stock price. And then if you're lucky enough to live, they refuse you decent health care if you are injured. So, do you know what you're talking about? Do you have examples of people that you know personally where that has happened? I do, and I also know a tremendous amount of people who got every inch of the health care in the military and post-military, service-connected, tying it directly back in and be treated and compensated for those things. I bet you my data pool of people that I personally know exceeds yours in orders of magnitude. But here you are with a a very deeply formed opinion on what I'm going to assume is very thin data. And that's okay, but maybe just be aware of that. You are talking, you know, in very broad terms, I think with very little information. Also, again, okay, but let's recognize that that's actually happening. Sometimes, yes, it can take a little bit of time to connect things to a service-related injury. Not all things are service-related. And I say this again, people have gotten very fired up when I've said this before. There is a contingent of people out there that do game the system. And guess what? When you game the system and you block the system up by doing that, it does take longer and make it more difficult for those with legitimate claims to work their way through that system. So there's that aspect of it as well. The bullshit wars, there have been multiple, generations of U.S. military service members that had exactly and precisely zero combat experience and exposure. Even with what's going on in Iran right now, the number of people directly involved in that is from a boots on the ground, not saying that there's no risk aviator in the, you know, the battle groups that are out there. I'm not saying that there's no risk to those people, but let's look at the number or percentage of people directly exposed in that in comparison to the percentage of the overall military infrastructure. It's pretty small. Again, you don't know what you're talking about, and that's okay. But perhaps consider why you hold the opinion that you do. Where are you getting your information? I think I know where you're getting your information, and it's going to be from traditional news sources, and that's okay. Or you have a limited data set from the people that work directly with you or for you. Also cool. But realize that a small group of people may not be able to accurately paint a greater picture of what's going on in the world. And that's okay. For the larger force in and of itself, which is again, also okay, but let's just remember those things. What else? Politicians have been making money on war and the military industrial complex has been making money on war since the inception of warfare. You don't think that there's people making money all the way back in the days of sticks and stones or forging armor and shields and swords and all of the stuff that they worked with or the people who made bow and arrows or cannons or warships and fill in the blank. It's a part of it. I think it's always going to be a part of it. I think that there are entities and organizations that do better than others that are more altruistic than others, but money is going to be made where there is a potential for money to be made. That is just the way that the human species works. If you want to associate all wars personally to, it's a part of it. If you're a politician trying to pad their stock portfolio, that's a personal choice. I'm not going to get there with you. There are times where we need to project military force and power. And there are times where I don't think we should. As an example, in Iran, I have a lot of questions about what we're doing and what we're actually going to accomplish. And when a year from now, we can take a look back at this and see what the situation was versus what it became and what actually changed, what was actually beneficial. There's going to be a conversation around that one. But the service member who joins the military, maybe they joined the military for socioeconomic reasons. Maybe they joined because they don't want to be where they are anymore, where they grew up. And they look at it as an ability to elevate their life, which I'm here to tell you right now, as somebody who was able to, it absolutely is. Maybe they're just absolutely patriotic and they want to serve something greater than themselves. Both are amazing. Both are legitimate reasons to join the military. To think and to reduce this down to, well, the military is underpaid, they're not taken care of, and they're just at the whim of a politician trying to pad their stock portfolio. If you want to view the world through that lens, go ahead. But I would ask you, does it feel healthy to do so? Is that lens on the world around us and our military and those that serve in the military, is that helping you or hurting you? Is that making you a happy person or is this making you somebody who is angry and starting to view the world through a conspiratorial lens? Make whatever choice you want. This is just a question that you can ask in your own time. And what you probably, I'm just looking at it. It's the reality. It's the reality for you. Your reality doesn't mean that's the reality for everybody else. This is the opinion for you, but you have, I'm going to guess exactly zero seconds of serving in the community that you're talking about. Right now. And that's okay. That's probably why you reached out to get my opinion. Whether or not you would advise somebody to join the military, maybe you're not the person to make that suggestion to somebody. Maybe the better thing to do for you would be this. If somebody asks you what you think about joining the military, maybe point them over towards a military member or somebody who has served. And if they share the same opinion as you, awesome. At least they're getting it from somebody who knows from experience, not from what they see on a screen. Which I'm not saying that negatively, but there's a difference in my opinion, in the validity of those two opinions. Not my, yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a difference in validity of the information. One is lived. One is seen. That matters. What I would tell people if they're looking at joining the military right now, as I have since I've been out of the military or even when I was in, I remind them upfront, like, listen, this isn't a job where you're going to be driving around in a Bugatti. You should never expect it to be. So, and as long as you, as long as you don't, you're going to be okay. It's really, like I said, consumer facing, go spend 30 seconds on the internet and you can get the answers to how much you're going to get paid in the military. It's not that hard. Beyond that, people will say, well, what about this president or that president? You're going to serve across multiple administrations. If you do more than four years or depending on when you come in, even if you only do four, cause it might be the tail end of one and another one. You don't know what the world's going to throw at you. Understand what the occupation that you want to pursue in the military is going to be like. Are you looking at this as a career or are you looking at this as a socioeconomic shift where you could go in and learn a vocational skill, exit the military after four to six years and then enter the workforce? Neither of those are wrong. The 20 year versus six year career. I I'm a fan of both of those, especially if both people know what it is they want to get out of their military service. So just go into it with your eyes wide open. Not everybody in the military is going to find themselves in a war, even in wartime. In fact, you actually will. Now I can't forecast what the future is going to look like and what warfare is going to look like in the future, but it's, it's an amazing opportunity to serve something greater than yourself for a period of time in your life. You don't have to agree with the politicians that you are serving underneath and you don't have to exit military service. If the other team all of a sudden gets into power for the four or eight years that they are going to have as somebody who is going to have to go through multiple administrations, the role in the military changed very little. Now this was during a post 9-11 time period in the global war on terror. So our country was largely really oriented in one direction and perhaps that's changing as we go forward and we're doing a little bit more isolated in regionally specific type of activities. But again, percentage of force involved in comparison to the total percentage of the military. It's going to be smaller than you actually think. It's an amazing opportunity to look at the military, to learn an immense amount about yourself, to leave with professional skills that can absolutely catapult you forward in every area of your life afterwards. Does it come for free? No. And nothing valuable does. If you're not comfortable with that or what the military stands for, perhaps pursue something else or educate yourself further so you can make the most educated decision possible. But for somebody out there who is questioning military service, please do me a favor. Go talk to somebody in the military or who had served in the military more than one data point as opposed to listening to somebody like this who thinks they know a lot about military service and doesn't really know that much but is very vocal. And for this person specifically, I think you need to listen a little bit more than you are talking when it comes to your opinion on what the military is and the service members who decide to enlist and serve our country for something greater than themselves. And that is all I have for today. See you guys Monday with an episode.