The DEMONIC Double Standard Behind Jaden Ivey's NBA Controversy!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

You may not be very interested in the culture war. The culture war is interested in you. Oftentimes, we tend to think a lot about me, but then when you open up the scripture, ultimately, you end up focusing less about you and more about Jesus. The blood of Abel was crying out for a man's condemnation, and the blood of Jesus Christ, a descendant, is crying out for our acquittal. Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for Church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our Church Online platform, and it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so with that, I want to invite you to join us for Church Online. Whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, Church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now, enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Rosso, and I'm here with Pastor Josh, who's got a fortune cookie and messing with the audio. We also got Paul Cunningham over here coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. And that's great. It's 8.30 PM. I just finished preaching. I need a fortune cookie. Hey, bro, Paul, let's get some Red Bull for Pastor Josh. Yeah, that is definitely not what he needs right now. Let me read my fortune. Please do. What? Bro, that's a different team, Josh. That's a different team. It says, nurture your dreams. That's not a fortune. Okay, I'm sorry. What translation of the Bible is that? I don't know. The message. That's a joke. That's a joke. Hey, today we're going to be talking about reasons to, actually, no, just kidding, deep dive in the resurrection accounts in the Bible. We're going to be dropping. We're going to go Indiana Jones. Bro, we're going to be dropping some mind-blowing examples from the Old Testament that points to Jesus, all the different hidden shadows and types. You'll never read the Bible again. And. Easter eggs, one might say. Yeah. Ooh. Ah! Well played. Ah! Oh, okay. Did you see what I did? I just did that joke. And it's going to be so good that today, I brought the high button. Oh! Wow. Bro, this will come in handy today, so I'm going to put it right here. I'm telling you, it's going to be a great episode. Wait, and then we're obviously, we're going to also talk about Bulls player Jaden Ivey get fired. That's right. Yeah, that's right. For saying that. How would you phrase it, actually? He said it. He said that. He said that. Basically, he was talking about the Bulls asking, asking the players to support Pride Month. That's right. And him as a Christian going, I'm out. That's right. And calling it unrighteousness. And he was fired the next day. So we're going to talk about the dynamics around that. And then, man, I hate to do this, but we're going to react to my boy, Emmanuel Acho. Okay. It was not awesome. So we'll get there. Amen. Hey, Pastor Josh, you just preached your first Easter sermon. I see you were about to take a bite of that. I did. I was trying to buy it. If you want to take a bite of that portion of cookie, I got you. While he's doing that, Carlos, I just want to say, great shirt. Really, really great shirt. This guy. You know, it's really, really good. What are you talking about? Just, you know, we kind of almost match, you know. Yeah. Just two dudes matching. He was secretly hoping you came with one, too. If he does the same thing, this is going to be kind of awkward and funny. Hey, can I give an announcement to Live Free Nation? Please do. Then let's dive in. Well, first of all, shout out. I just got back from our grandpa's funeral. Flew up to New York, buried in New York. Buried him on, you know, right outside the farm there. I got one of his International Harvester hats on from Grandpa. Ninety-six years old. Died on the same farm he was born on. Wow. Refused to go to hospice care because he was like, I was born on this land, I'm going to die on this land. They don't make them like that. Related to Ernest Hemingway. Oh, wow. Grandpa Hemingway. And, you know, this is awesome, man. So, repping. Repping the International Harvester hat for Grandpa. That's amazing. It's good, man. That's amazing. Hey, we're meeting a lot of people in the lobby here at Lake Point. And just literally people from all over the place. And so, if you are listening to this or watching on YouTube and you're part of the Live Free Nation, we would love to meet you. Come hang out. And if you visit us for the first time at any of our physical locations, we got a gift for you. Also, I really want to show a photo. So, this last weekend, the lady in the middle, her name is Nesh. And she came to visit us this last weekend. She's California born and raised. She grew up in a family where her mother was Jehovah's Witness and her father is Kurdish. And he was a survivor in Saddam Hussein's dictatorship. So, she did not grow up Christian. She wrestled with family loss, panic attacks, and high anxiety. Last year, September 2025, she starts listening to the Live Free podcast and decides to go to Barnes & Noble's to buy her first Bible. On that day, she gives her life to Jesus. She hasn't had a panic attack since then. She joins Lakeport Church online. She gets plugged in in her local church. She just got baptized last weekend with her best friend, Jennifer, who's in the picture as well. And we are celebrating that today, man. Where's the word? There you go. That's amazing. Man, we're celebrating with you, Nesh. Happy for you and Jennifer as well. Also, if you want to purchase a Live Free hat right here, we got a new hat for the ladies. By the way, you can go to livefree.shop or text the word hat to Tuesday. It's 20411. Boom. Boom. And for the people that are asking as well to find our daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the Live Free podcast, plus a discipleship guide, you can download the Lake Point Church app or text the word app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play Store. Pastor Josh, I have a question for you. I will allow it. Do you want a Red Bull? I'm kidding. I don't want a Red Bull. Wait, before you go any farther. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. And then we're going to start talking about the Bible. So I'm really serious about this. If godly people don't, godless people will on Christians and political and governmental engagement. So I meant what I said. We are going to leverage Live Free Nation to keep an overtly, like an actual biblical false prophet from winning a Texas midterm election in James Tallarico. So here's what we have done. We have created a landing page. Basically, here's the deal. It's somewhere around, it's an estimated 40 million evangelical Bible-believing Christians don't vote. And that's in presidential elections. It's probably three times that for midterm elections. So let me just, that's an estimated like 100 plus million Christians not voting in elections, which, like I said, if godly people don't, godless people, if godly people don't take the driver's seat, godless people do. Yes. So here's what we're going to do. We are going to leverage Live Free Nation to try to legitimately flip. We are going to flip a Texas election because as of the most recent data, James Tallarico, all the LGBT, all the trans ideology, max boost abortion, an actual biblically defined heretic and false teacher, all the things, socialism, light, all the stuff, he's winning in the polls. So Live Free Nation, we're going to change that. So here's what you can do. We built a website. You can simply text the word VOTE to the number 20411. And what you get? What you get there is most people just don't vote because they don't know when, where, and how. So we literally built this. I am told it is one of, if not the first website of its kind because it's got a bunch of AI on the back end that has recently enabled this function. So literally you or anybody that you know can simply go to this webpage. You text VOTE to 20411. And then all you got to do there is enter your home address. That's all private. We don't see any of that data. Nothing's stored. And it will spit out to you. It will spit out to you instantly when to vote, where to vote, and what is needed in wherever you live to be able to vote. That's awesome. We're just going to max boost this thing. We're going to leverage Live Free Nation to get Christians to engage, to keep an actual heretic and false teacher from winning a Texas election. We'll just see. We can flip a whole election. It'll be fun. Let's go, man. Salt of the world. Salt of the world. Let's go. Salt of the earth. Pastor Josh, what did it make you do this sermon? A lot. A lot. A lot, dude. All right. Let me just— By the way, great job. Hey, thank you, man. Great job. Thank you, man. Thank you. On Easter, you just want to run it up the middle. Like, you don't mess with that. You preach the cross, and you preach the resurrection. So, dude, honestly, a lot. I'm going to try to do this fast because, dude, there is so much—let's go a little Indiana Jones. So here's what I wish I had time to do in a sermon like this. If we could all get in a bus and go— If we could all get in a bus and go over to Israel together, if you can actually see all the— I literally—I told you. I told you two days ago. I was just waiting for it. I may or may not have an over-under on how many times we're going to do this. I was waiting for it. I just looked at Paul. He had this, like, you jerk. The tension in the air just, like, changing a second. So let me show all the things that Paul would have seen. We're going to do this. - Really fast? So, and here's the big idea, dude. Once you see this, you just start realizing, like, there's no chance this didn't happen. Yeah. Okay. So let's do this real fast. We're going to do it in chronological order. First of all, toss that tree up there, Trinity. So that's the Garden of Gethsemane. There are olive trees grow to be— What are you laughing at? You can look at me, too, because Paul feels like you're just looking at him. But go ahead. Don't let me interrupt you. Olive trees grow very old. That is the oldest olive tree in the Garden of Gethsemane. I don't know if it's the oldest one in the world. That olive tree is over 2,000 years old. Let me put that in perspective. When Jesus is praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, that exact tree was alive. I'm going to just pause and let that sink in. That tree was alive when Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. Wow. All right. Now go to that next picture with the dude there. Okay. That guy's name is Yuval. He's, like, the greatest. He's a Messianic Jew. He's the best guide in the whole world. So here's what you're looking at here, dude. This will blow your mind. So what you're looking at on top of his hand, that is a 2,000-plus-year-old olive press. That's actually not in the Garden of Gethsemane, but it's around there. It's an olive press. Now, dude, here's what a lot of people don't know. The word Gethsemane, Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus, remember, he prays. Remember, this is really important. We're going to come back to this. He prays how many times? Three times. He prays three times, and on the third time, begins to sweat. Drop some blood. Drop some blood. Okay. And he's obviously praying in the Garden of Gethsemane. Gethsemane literally means oil press. That's what the word Gethsemane means. Now, dude, this is going to blow your mind, okay? So we're here with Yuval, a Messianic Jew, and he shows us this oil press. Now, if you can see that little circular stone in there with a hole in the middle, first of all, whenever Jesus does the whole deal where he's like, anybody that causes one of these little ones to sin, it would be better if they tied a millstone around their neck. That's literally the type of stone he's talking about. That's a millstone. So, and the reason he says that you could tie one around your neck is because they had that hole in it. So it's like envisioning like, hey, you could make that a necklace, brother, and jump in the ocean and actually go better for you than if you caused little kids to sin. All right. So Yuval's here, and we just saw Gethsemane. Means oil press. Bookmark that in your head. Shows us this oil press. What they would do is they put the olives in the big stone holding, and then they would put a big wooden, pole through the middle of that sucker, and then turn it. So then it crushes them. Now, this is really important. They would crush the olives three times. And this is very clearly historically documented. And each pressing of the olive, the oil would have different levels of purity, and they would be used for different things. So like if you go to the store and you buy extra virgin olive oil, what that literally means is it was a virgin. It was an unpressed olive. And this was the first pressing of the oil. So the virgin oil first pressing was used back then for anointing oil. That's a big deal. If you're anointing somebody, you do that. Then they would run that sucker a second time. The second oil, it was not quite as pure. They would use that oil for medicinal purposes, for healing and light. So like on a menorah, that second oil is the type of oil that would light a menorah. And to clarify, a menorah is? That's that seven-pronged candlestick thing. Okay, thank you. Then they would press it a third time just to get the last drops out. And that third pressing of the oil, it's like what we call lye. That's the third pressing. Okay, so it would be used for cleansing. All right, now, bro, just stop and think about this for a second. Jesus goes into the Garden of Gethsemane, which means oil press. How many times does Jesus pray as, to quote the Scriptures, "as the Son of Man is about to be crushed?" How many times does He pray? Three times. And we just heard that the first pressing was used for anointing oil. The second pressing was used for healing. The third pressing was used for cleansing. Wow. And then Jesus Christ goes into the Garden of Gethsemane. He's crushed for our iniquities and prays three times in His presence. He's crushing and exactly what those olives, the oil we're used for, guess what Jesus does? He is used, He's crushed for our anointing, our healing, and our cleansing. Wow. Ladies and gentlemen, the Garden of Gethsemane. Whoa, that's crazy, dude. The Bible's amazing. Let's keep going, let's keep going, all right? So let's go to this next one, the tree. This is real quick. You saw on last week's pod, by the way, that thing's blowing up. That's right. Dadgum, JJ. Shout out to Jeremiah. By the way, he was on Shawn Ryan like two days after ours. Ours was better. I agree, I agree with that. Just teasing. So he showed the whole, the helmet of thorns, okay? I took this when, you'll see this, right outside the Garden of Gethsemane. Sorry, there's a bet, there's a bet. This is an acacia tree. And so they're all over, right? Yeah. Down there, right? Where Jesus was crucified. And bro, if you look real close, Trini, do you have the ability to zoom in? Can you do that? Zoom in on those thorns, like, if you can. I don't even know if you can. Oh, yeah. Zoom in if you can on those thorns, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see those? Zoom in even farther. Bro, they're like, some of them are literally like, I pulled a couple off, are like six inches long. So most people think the crown of thorns was made from that guy right there, which is what Jeremiah showed us. You know, last week. Little side note, what's interesting is God dictated in the Old Testament that the Ark of the Covenant be made of? Acacia wood. Acacia wood. And by the way, let me just point this out. Everything that was contained in the Ark of the Covenant was a reminder of the disobedience of the people. There is a connection, a lot of Bible scholars think, between the crown of thorns being acacia wood, and the Ark of the Covenant being acacia wood. And obviously, this thing holding the things that reminded of the disobedience, the disobedience of the people, and that being the curse for the disobedience of the people. That's a fun little fact. Now, let's do another one. Go to that little, this is the stuff, dude, I wish I could just show everybody, and you never, it doesn't make it into a sermon. Yeah, go to the next little thing. This is the game on the ground. Okay, dude. So if you go into, there's two places. One of them's called Antonio's Tower, and the other one is the remains of one of Herod's little palace outposts. And one of those two places is where Jesus was scourged. So you see both of them, and bro, you literally, you're looking at 100% one of those two places is where Jesus Christ himself had the flesh raked off his back. Now, bro, this is nuts. So this, you can barely see it. If you look real close, you see that little circle right there? You see a little circle, and there's some etchings inside the circle. So what this is, they put a glass protective casing in the middle of it, and they put a glass protective casing in the middle, that little retaining wall above it so this so it's i don't have time nor expertise to explain this right now the area around jerusalem in and around jerusalem there are certain spots that are controlled by muslims certain spots that are controlled by jews this spot is controlled by muslims if you ever go there it's like the whole area if you look if you're outside the field of the vision of this picture down it's just honestly it's just a big it's a it's a bus station it kind of you're kind of like bro this feels real irreverent i don't know um so this is where it is now uh that retaining wall up there if you look real close again it's muslim controlled you can see a little writing up there this kind of this kind of thing that ticks you off and then makes you pray uh so go to the next picture where i zoom in on it trinity so that's the arabic and what the muslims have done is right above the place of the skull where jesus probably crucified in arabic they have written allah is god muhammad is his prophet allah has no son it's essentially a way to taunt christians uh that's what that is that's a little fun fact now you may be wondering um go back one picture trinity you may be wondering well i wonder why they think that's golgotha one we know that jesus was taken outside uh the city walls the gospels tell us jesus was taken outside the outside the city walls to be christianized to be crucified um this fits it's within walking distance you can see right to the temple mount all that stuff and it's one of the only places that fits that but here's the big reason is um until 1901 this is what that spot looked like go to that next picture that's it now zoom in for me can you zoom in on that skeletor looking part hang on yeah zoom in you got it zoom in keep going keep going keep going keep going you see it okay you see those two creepy looking eyes wow so dude look at it wow you can you see the two eyes and then look right below it and there's a little outcropping that it for real looks like a daggum nose it looks like a forehead look at that it looks like a crinkled forehead above those two little eye spots it's cool yeah i mean dude it looks just like a skull yep wow so if i'm understanding this correctly until basically that there was some kind of like earthquake or something in 1901 that collapsed part of it so then but from what i understand until 1901 everybody was like that's a spot man yeah and everybody knows that's the spot wow so first of all just like pause for a second and drink that in you're almost certainly right there looking at the spot where the son of god choked to death on his own blood for you that right there all right just let that sink in now i'm going to go to last one last thing this was just discovered a few years ago um this is the you know what this is paul yeah yeah yeah of course chip cheap all t knows what she does paul uh so this is this is in rome it is uh from what i understand the earliest case of uh quote unquote christian graffiti uh ever discovered but what's interesting is it's mocking graffiti yeah so the title of it is alexa minos worships his god well actually let me i'm skipping ahead so if you look real close on the left that's the graffiti the sketching of the uh of the uh graffiti on the right that's like what it what it would look like just to make it more clear and it's uh it's a you know it's a painting of a little roman dude in front of a guy being crucified um with an uh with a donkey's head on um this dates to from what i understand the second century so the 100s a.d and it look at that let those letters right below it um what it says is alexa minos worships his god and essentially what's happening is um there was apparently a christian young man in early rome named alexa minos and he worshiped jesus christ and every roman person was like bro no god would ever die what kind of god would die for his people that way too in such a crucifixion humiliating way and so they literally drew to mock him jesus with a and i'm going to use strong language on purpose jesus with the head of a jackass as if to say anybody who worships jesus christ worships a dead jackass that's what they were doing now with that in front of your eyes i would just like to remind us what first corinthians 1 23 says but we preach christ crucified a stumbling block to the jews and foolishness to the gentiles i'm all in man amen now let me do one last one and then paul i want you to i want you to comment on that weird passage in matthew where matthew is the only gospel that says when jesus uh died a whole bunch of people were raised from the dead and they walked around like a zombie apocalypse and then i want to i want you real quick to answer uh whether or not jesus descended into hell like the apostles creed said that says that he does let me just do one last this was one that all i dude i had to cut this from the sermon like one hour before preaching it and it really took me off i just didn't have time to get it in all right so the gospel of luke whenever jesus is carrying his cross to golgotha and he stumbles and they pull simon and it is so the luke is the only gospel that records it says simon the cyrenian it's the only one and you read it and you're like well huh i wonder why why'd they specifically say he was from cyrene it's like nothing else ever comes of that why'd they say that mark is the only gospel that records the names of the dude's two kids rufus and alexander now here's the question why is luke record hey not just simon the one from syria the one from syria the one from syria the one from syria the one from syria the one from syria and why does mark go oh not just simon the simon whose kids were mark and rufus well here's the deal man what the new testament's doing it's an ancient footnote so what church history uh records is that that guy simon the cyrenian eventually became a christian became very well known in the ancient church so when these dudes are writing all the gospels they're and they're they're writing with people they're trying to convince people and they don't you know it's not like i don't know 23 and me there's not like go look them up on facebook no facebook yeah yeah so they what they did is they're literally putting a footnote it's like super meta into the gospels where anybody that was reading would have gone now wait a second simon from syrene yeah the one whose kids are rufus and alexander i know that guy and they all would have been going well i'll just go ask him if this happened but dude here's the awesome part so if you go to romans 16 13 so at the end of all the epistles where paul does his little deal where he does the whole farewell speeches and he's saying goodbye to like 57 different people in every epistle by the way those little names matter and if you study those names it gets real interesting real fast this is one of them so in romans 16 13 he it says greet rufus ah it's that guy it's that guy's kid greet rufus and his mother who has been a mother to me also and it says that they were chosen in the lord and he says goodbye to 40 i think it's like 45 different people in romans rufus is the only one that he says that guy chosen in the lord and dude it seems like what paul is doing is he's gone when jesus was carrying his cross and he stumbles he picks simon i want that guy and jesus in his sovereign foreknowledge knew not only am i gonna save that guy i'm gonna save his son rufus too cool and paul is in romans 16 going i know exactly what jesus did tell rufus i said hey wow the bible's amazing my goodness it's also a good it's just a myths a lot of times people say oh these are just myths that if you actually go and read ancient myths they don't read this way they don't put random dudes and kids names in there that actually a lot of scholarship's been done in the last 20 or 30 years say no no this is example of eyewitness testimony that they include little names like this say hey if you don't believe me go and ask them they will attest to this kind of thing so it's just a reminder that these were real people in real places that saw real things happen so if we get to just some proofs of the of the resurrection i wasn't going to mention that but that is actually a perfect example to say hey this is eyewitness testimony of something that either did happen or it did not happen that's right yeah that's right it's good stuff let's go some one of the questions was yeah all right let me so paul do you get a rapid fire these because we we got to talk jay and ivy and one other thing you left out though oh do it what did i what did i miss okay so you started your sermon off the great illustration of big reversals that happened okay but you left out like the biggest one in ncaa history you jerk that happened listen over 30 years ago play the christian leitner shot i'm gonna be ticked at you are you gonna do it i'm not gonna do it i literally told the team i thought about having them ready to prompt it but i love my job and I love you. And that's just wrong. I'm over there as a Duke fan. You're saying this and all my family, they had to watch me watch that game. I'm like, oh, that's painful right now to even think about it. But I thought about doing it, but I like my job and I love you. And I just wanted to at least mention that you didn't leave out the greatest reversal in NCAA history, but yeah. So great detail from Matthew. Okay. Paul, rapid fire these two questions that a lot of people have. There are weird verses that a lot of people have about the crucifixion resurrection accounts. Number one, Matthew is the only gospel that records when Jesus was crucified, right? It's at the crucifixion is when he gives up the spirit. It's at the crucifixion is literally when the curtain is ripping. When the curtain's torn. And all the rocks are splitting apart. Yeah. Then it says that the bodies, do you have the verse in front of you? Yeah. The tombs were also opened and many of the bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming out of the tomb, this is a key detail that a lot of people miss, after his resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. What the heck? Matthew's the only gospel that records this. What the heck is happening? You got any thoughts on why Matthew's the only gospel that records it? I'd say two or three reasons. Number one, one is just the idea of they attest to the reality of what happened. It's like saying, oh, it was one thing to say that, oh, maybe they just hid Jesus's body. But if you have a bunch of people that are rising from the dead, that are all of a sudden going in and testifying that they're alive, that's really tough to explain. You know, at that point. A second thing is I think it's actually a coming attraction in a sense, a little bit of a teaser trailer, because the idea is that when Jesus rises from the grave, the new creation begins. It's not fulfilled yet. This is the idea of the already not yet that we talked about before, but that if he ushers in the new creation and the new age where he is going to recreate all things and give life to all things. And so it was almost like, hey, this is what I'm going to do for everybody. The difference would be all the people that were raised died again in the same way that Lazarus was raised to life and he also died again. But when we're raised to life, we will never die again and we will live forever with him. So I say that's a big thing. But I think it's an interesting little detail that it says that the tombs were opened, but that they did not come out until after Jesus had come out. So it's almost like we're like, no, no, we got to make the main thing, the main thing. He's the guy who's making all this possible. We're not coming out until he's come out first. Interesting. If somebody, Paul, that's maybe just a little bit more of a skeptic, is asking me, wait, something so supernatural, why is it only in one gospel? Why don't you find it in the other gospels? Oh, yeah. I think any of the gospels, you'll find little details that the other doesn't put in. Sometimes it's for emphasis. Sometimes it's just for, hey, they're telling it from a unique angle. Just because it's not in all of them doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It just means they're just wanting to include a detail. Potentially with the Jewish people, they really had this idea that there would only be one resurrection of everybody at the end of the age. The huge change that's introduced is that Jesus inaugurates this new age, but he rises. And so it potentially could be proof to Jews to say, hey, this was legit because only did he rise. His resurrection affects other people's resurrections as well. Question number two. Question number two. Okay. So the Apostles' Creed says that he was crucified on the third day, he descended into hell. That's literally what the Apostles' Creed, he descended into hell. Yep. So Paul Cunningham, between Jesus' death and resurrection, did he descend into hell? If so, what did he do? If not, why does the Apostles' Creed say that? Exactly. So we had to say Jesus died. In his human nature, he died. Now, in his divine nature, he did not because God cannot die. But Jesus, in his human nature, died. He experienced death. The question to your point is, so where did his soul or spirit go to? So two broad views on this question. One is that the idea of that phrase descended into hell is more of a description of what happened on the cross. That on the cross, he experienced hell, but not in hell. He experienced it on the cross. The wrath of God. The wrath of God poured out on the cross. A second view, and by the way, I'm more of a hybrid of these two, is that he did receive that wrath on the cross, but then he descended into hell. But here's the key thing, not to receive more punishment. Mel Gibson's making passionately, passionate cries part two. The resurrection. And it's going to be the resurrection, but it's really about the in-between, is what happened in between. And if he depicts Jesus suffering in hell, he and I are going to have some words. That's what he's making the movie about? It's about the in-between? It's the in-between. At least that's supposedly like it's going to be the huge emphasis, because it's like resurrection wouldn't take a long movie. This kind of thing is like, he's got to fill with some time. So apparently it's going to be what happened in the in-between. What's the official Catholic stance on that? The herring of hell. Basically, he goes into Hades, but to proclaim the gospel, not to proclaim the gospel in the sense of to get people a second chance to repent, but to proclaim it over demons as authority, but then potentially over Old Testament saints to give them a chance, not to give them a chance, but basically he's rescuing them out of Hades kind of a thing. Well, Gibson is like a Catholic Catholic. He's like a pre-Vatican II Catholic. So I bet he's going to go with whatever the Catholic doctrine is. Because historically it's not been that he was punished because remember when Jesus was on the cross before he died, he said it is finished. We shouldn't think that he then closed his eyes and opened them in hell and said, oh, nevermind. I've got more suffering. No, no, no. The idea is he would have gone to hell, but to proclaim his victory over demons, but then also potentially, yes, to proclaim the gospel, but to people who are already believers from the Old Testament. I'm a person that's more of a hybrid. I would say he endured the full punishment of hell on the cross, but I am a person who would say he descended into hell, but to proclaim his victory over demons. However, we've got verses for that. Yeah. That's the first Peter that we actually went into a few weeks ago, that we actually went into a few weeks ago. The idea of he went in there to proclaim victory over the evil spirits, the demons. But then we have to also remember, it's not that he then stayed there for all those days, because what did he also tell to the thief on the cross? Today you will be with me in paradise kind of a thing. And so I'm more of a hybrid between those. And so those are the two broad views though. Okay. Yeah. Lots of things we could double click on in that one. I know that we would want to follow up on, but yeah. What about you? Where are you at though on that, Pastor Josh? I have no idea. There's a few things, man, where I'm like, I'm totally comfortable going. I don't know, man. Yeah. So in just a second, we're about to talk about how literally every single page of the Bible points to Jesus. But before, Pastor Josh, I have a question. Do you know the secret identity of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus? Bro, I got no idea. And I'm really fascinated to see what you're going to say here. So this is honestly like, this is amazing because I thought this was the coolest thing this week. So Luke 24, obviously the sermon, for those of you that have not checked it out, you got to go back and listen to it. It was the first section of Luke 24, right? So when the Spice Girls, they go to the tomb. That was great, by the way. So right after that, there's a little section, verse 13, of two disciples that go, they're on a road called Emmaus and Jesus shows up and he basically does a little Bible study. They initially did not recognize him. And then after eventually their eyes are open. And so I'm about to share with you the secret identity of these two disciples. This is really interesting. So the Bible does not give us the name of both of the disciples, but it does mention one of them and his name was Cleopas. The other one is not named. And so honestly, I always thought it was two men, two dudes kind of walking in and you know, two friends, maybe they're leaving Jerusalem. They're, you know, and then Jesus shows up. According to church tradition and early historians, Cleopas was the brother of Joseph, who was Jesus's earthly father, which would have made him Jesus's uncle. Now, hold on. John chapter 19, verse 25 mentions a Mary, the wife of Cleopas. Now Cleopas and Cleopas, historians believe they're the same name, different spelling. And so many scholars believe that the unnamed second disciple in this story of Emmaus is Cleopas' wife, the aunt of Jesus. So it is possible that the two disciples were Jesus's aunt and uncle, which Jesus's aunt and uncle, which means this is a family Bible study with the risen Lord Jesus. But wait, there's more. If that's true, what happens after? Jesus is about to leave them, but then basically they say, hey, no, don't go, stay with us. And Jesus does, and they have a meal together. So if that's true, and then you zoom out of scripture, this is what you see. In Genesis 3, Adam and Eve, a married couple, they eat, their eyes are open, and they are experience shame. In Luke 24, Cleopas and his wife, a married couple, they eat, their eyes are open, and experience revelation. Hold on. There's more. In Genesis 3, Adam and Eve, they hide from God in the cool of the day. That's evening. In Luke 24, Cleopas and his wife do the opposite. They say, stay with us for it is toward evening. In Genesis 3, Adam and Eve misunderstand God's word. They say, did God really say? In Luke 24, Jesus helps Cleopas and his wife understand God's word correctly. This is what God really says. It's about me. This is what Jesus says. We're about to go there in a second. In Genesis 3, God walks in the garden for confrontation of sin. In Luke 24, Jesus walks in Emmaus for restoration from sin. In Genesis 3, Adam and Eve, they try to hide themselves from God. In Luke 24, Jesus reveals himself to them as God. In Genesis 3, Adam and Eve are banished from Eden, separated from God. In Luke 24, after encountering Jesus, Cleopas and his wife, they go back to Jerusalem to be on mission. The first meal in Genesis brought the fall. The first meal after the resurrection, a new Genesis, brought redemption. Wow. Come on. Bro, that's amazing. So there you go. There you go. It could have been. All right. So let's do this real quick, and then let's talk Jaden Ivey getting fired from the Bulls for being a sane person. So let's do this real quick. The passage in Luke 24, the Emmaus Road deal, it honestly—so for our listeners, honestly, of everything we say on this podcast, this, what we're about to talk about, long term, will probably be the most important thing for you as a Bible reader. So what Jesus does in Luke 24 is he rolls up on them, and on Emmaus Road, they don't recognize him, which is—it's kind of interesting. There's different theories on why. Glorified body, maybe they were overcome with grief. There's a lot of different theories on that. But they don't recognize him. So then they essentially go, oh, didn't you hear what happened, you know, with this Jesus fella? And he, you know, he kind of rope-a-dopes him a little bit. He's like, ah, tell me about it. He says, you're the only one who hasn't heard? You're the only one. Yeah, he's the only one who knows. So then, dude, what Luke 24 says is he keeps walking with them, and he—it says, beginning with the law and the prophets, he explained to them all the things in the law and the prophets concerning himself. What Jesus essentially—so here's both—actually, this is not a theory. This is a fact. If you read the rest of the New Testament, one of the things that is striking is the entire rest of the New Testament is showing how everything in the Old Testament was about Jesus. And you didn't know it. Basically, bro, the entire New Testament is the extrapolation of whatever Jesus told them in Luke 24 on the Emmaus Road. That's the rest of the New Testament. So here's the big idea for Christian Bible readers. What a lot of Christians do is they read their Bible, and they just think, oh, man, what I need to do is just read it chronologically. And the chronological reading—and by the way, I love chronological reading. Shout out to Terri Lee Cobble. We love you and all the things. But they're just like, oh, you interpret it chronologically. You know? You know, Genesis, and then you get to, you know, the Old Testament, and then Jesus, and then Revelation. And great. That's how, you know, you get it. No, no, no. That is not how you read your Bible. Remember, Jesus said in Luke 24 everything that happened before was about him. That's what Luke 24 says, okay? So here's the analogy. You guys remember the first time you watched Sixth Sense? Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you've never seen the Sixth Sense, I'm about to spoil the ending, but that's on you. You've had 25 years to watch it. Wait, don't spoil it. I haven't seen it. I am going to spoil it. I'm kidding. Go ahead. So you— You see the Sixth Sense, bro, and it's the only movie I've ever watched twice back-to-back, immediately. Yeah. Because you see the whole thing. Bro, you haven't seen Inception or, you know— I'm not watching twice back-to-back. Keep cooking. That's a pretty good movie, too, you know, if you haven't seen it. So you see Sixth Sense. You watch the whole movie. Then you get to the—you get to the—well, what's the famous line? What's the famous line? I see dead people. I see dead people. But then you realize— there's that moment where you realize, oh, he was dead the whole time. And then you go back, and you immediately re-watch the movie, and now you're interpreting the entire movie through the lens of what was revealed at the end, and the whole movie takes on a completely different light. That's how you're supposed to read your Bible. Yes. So the whole Old Testament happens. Then Jesus shows up. And he does the life, death, resurrection. And then Jesus goes, oh, by the way, all that stuff that's been written for the last 4,000 years, all that was about me. And then what a Christian Bible reader does, they go, oh, dang, I need to go back. And you start realizing, like, every single thing that happened was pointing to Jesus and was about Jesus. It's kind of—honestly, it's kind of like a magic eye. You remember this when you were a kid? Yeah. Did you—they have magic eyes in El Salvador? Me and I've seen—I know what you're talking about. How do you say magic eye in El Salvadorian? Una bola negra, maybe? How? I mean, it's a black ball, right? It's a black ball, right? No. What did you talk about? Magic eye? Wait, oh, no. Oh, we don't do sorcery in El Salvador, bro. Oh, no, we don't know what you're talking about. Magic eye. Magic eye. You said something negra, and I was like, this is lost in translation. Wait. Wait, I need to go—what is magic eye? I don't know what's going on. No. Oh, yeah, I see what you're talking about. I was thinking about something completely different. That's on me. I thought it was a magic eight ball. I thought it was a— It's the art that if you look at it cross-eyed, it comes out of the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do, we do. Then you see it different. Hey, Josh, that reached the far corner of El Salvador, yes. Were you thinking of the magic eight ball? I was, I was. Which is understandable, that's for sure. It's okay, yeah. Well, it's kind of like that, where once you see it, you can't unsee it. That's right. Got it. So we could—literally, it would take years. Yes. Multiple podcasts. It takes years for us to show how everything in the Old Testament is like a mind-blowing sixth sense moment. This, oh, that was about Jesus. You guys just want to round-robin some of the best ones. And then what we're going to do for listeners, once you hear how we do this, which, by the way, is the pattern of the New Testament, this is how you need to start reading your Old Testament, okay? So you just want to round-robin them? How do you want to do this? Why don't you go first? Please lead us. Yeah. Let me pick one. This feels like a fantasy. This feels like a fantasy draft. Okay, I'm going to go—I'll do these. We're going to rapid-fire them. Yeah. All right. So first of all, you obviously have in Genesis 1, 2, and 3, Adam and Eve sinned. They hide in their shame. Theologians call—it's Genesis chapter 3. God starts chasing them when they're hiding in their shame. Theologians call it the Proto-Evangelion, which in Latin means first telling of the gospel. And remember what God does. He walks up to them. He finds an innocent animal, slays the innocent animal, uses the skins from the slain innocent animal to cover their sin and their shame. Sound familiar, my friend? Mm-hmm. All right. Now think about that. Again, once you go back and read the Old Testament through the lens of Jesus, you're like, what? All right. So that's one. I'll do another one. Also in Genesis 3, God, when he's pronouncing the curses— on Adam and Eve, he tells Adam and Eve, he's like, he looks at Eve, he's like, hey, so here's the deal. One day, one of your offspring—and offspring is singular—one of your offspring is going to come, and the serpent is going to strike at his heel, but he's going to crush their head. So you're going to have an offspring that becomes a serpent crusher. And then Jesus comes, and Jesus is A, offspring of Eve, B, the serpent. The serpent strikes at his heel. That's he, obviously, in the crucifixion. And C, the Bible says that he triumphed over the demons, Satan and the demons, putting them to open shame. He crushes the serpent. Okay? So there you go. Points to Jesus. I'm going to do one more. You got one? I was going to say Hebrews 2.14, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death. Romans 15.20, the God of peace will soon crush Satan where? Under your feet. Under your feet. Mm. Okay. Actually, let me do two other quick ones. Two other quick ones. I'll do another one. There's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of them in Genesis. Oh, yeah. So after Abel, Cain kills Abel. And there's that verse. Hebrews does this super inception meta thing with this verse. So Genesis says God comes up to Cain that just killed Abel. And he's like, where's your brother? And he's like, am I my brother's keeper? I said that to my mom one time when I was a kid. She was like, hey, are you supposed to be looking after your brother? I was like, mom, am I my brother's keeper? She's like, you know who said that? Cain killed his brother. That was funny. All right. So anyway. So then you remember what God says to Cain. He's like, the blood of your brother is crying out for your condemnation. And the book of Hebrews says that the blood of Jesus, who is the second Adam, innocently slain, it says that his blood cries out from the ground and speaks a better word. So where at, bro? So the blood of Adam. The blood of Abel was crying out for a man's condemnation. And the blood of Jesus Christ, a descendant of Adam, Cain, Abel, a descendant, is crying out for our acquittal and forgiveness. Okay. Again, you read everything through Jesus, and it's like, my mind's blown. Let me do one last one, and then I'll give you all a turn. And then we'll just rapid fire around robbing this thing, and then we'll talk Jade and Ivy and shut her down. So here's one of my favorites. So Genesis 22. You got Abraham and Isaac, and we all know the story. Actually, I'm going to read the verse. So here's what God says. Listen really close to the verse. There's something in this verse people don't notice, and it's a big deal. God comes to Abraham. He's like, hey, take your son, your only son, whom you love. Hey, Abraham, why don't you take your only begotten son, whom you love? Well, this is starting to sound a little familiar. Isaac. Now, this is important. Here's what people miss. He didn't just say, and walk up the closest mountain you can find. He says, and go to the region of Moriah. Now, I studied this years ago, and if I remember right, Moriah was like 80 miles from where he was. So Abraham would have been going, well, dadgum, there's mountains all over the place. Why can't I just walk up one of these? God's like, no, no. I want you to go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering, and there's a specific mountain on a mountain that I will show you. So think about it. You're Abraham. You're walking around. You got your kid on your back. He's your son, your only son, whom you love. You're walking 80 miles, and you're like, why the heck am I walking past all these mountains to this region? And you get there, and then somehow the wind blows. we don't know. God shows him one specific mountain. Side note for all the listeners, you have already seen a picture of the mountain that God showed him in this podcast. He shows him one specific mountain. He's like, I want you to walk up that specific mountain and I want you to sacrifice your son, your only son, whom you love up there. Now remember, Isaac, he puts, this is crazy, dude. He puts the wood that he's going to sacrifice him on, on the back of his son, Isaac. So you've got an only begotten son that the father loves with wood on his back. Son's got to carry the wood on his back up the hill where he's going to die. Bro, bro, are you kidding me? He gets up there and remember, as soon as he's about to kill him, God's like, hey, dang, stop. And there's an innocent animal, a little ram in the thicket. And he's like, why don't you kill that thing instead of your son? So there's a substitutionary sacrifice or atonement. Guess what region the Mount of Golgotha is in? Moriah. Guess what mountain God told Abraham to walk like 80 miles to go find and then showed him when he got there? Almost certainly Golgotha. Hmm. Bro, are you kidding me? I was going to say, do it for him. Oh, it's not even Oregon. Oh, no. So, hey, somebody else do one. I've got, I've got a quick one because I've got another that's going to take a few minutes to cook. So I'll do a quick one. Then you can, you can take it for a few minutes. So when Satan went to Adam and Eve, basically he tried to get them to take and eat, which led to the fall of humanity and to sin and train. The world. When Jesus went to the cross to undo that the night before, what did he tell us to do? Take and eat at the last supper at the last supper. I need to add to that. Go. Adam disobeyed in the garden of Eden. Jesus obeyed in a garden of Gethsemane. Adam was naked in the garden and was filled with guilt and shame. Jesus was crucified naked on the cross and took upon himself that guilt and shame. After Adam sinned, the ground produced thorns as part of the curse. After Jesus obeyed, he wore a crown of thorns asking, taking upon himself the curse of sin. Adam's side was pierced when God took one of the ribs to create Eve and Eve came back to, came to life. Jesus's side was pierced and out came blood and water. And from that, the church came to life. Adam, like you said, took from the tree and sin entered the world. Jesus, the second Adam didn't take, but he gave himself on a tree and salvation entered the world. Eve ate the fruit. And when God confirmed, he took it from the tree and sin entered the world. Jesus, the second Adam, he blamed the woman. And since God has said that the wages of sin is death, Adam was essentially saying, God, don't kill me, kill her. In the story of Jesus, when it came to the sin of his bride, the church, Jesus, the last Adam said, God, don't kill her, kill me. That's the gospel. Bro, that's so good. Now, can I just point something out? Whenever you start doing stuff like this for every, like, born again Christian, your heart starts to burn within you. Yeah. It's Luke 24. Yes. Did not our hearts burn within us as he opened the scriptures to us? Like, once you start learning to read the Bible through what theologians call a Christological lens, that is when it detonates like a nuclear bomb in your soul. Yeah. And even like to give an example of how even the most boring of things can do that. Let's just be honest. When we're doing our Bible reading, a lot of people who start and they've never done it before, they usually do decent. Through Genesis or thing, but then you get to access. And the first part is really good. And then eventually you get to where they tell them how to build the tabernacle, you know, like, oh my gentle Jesus, are you kidding me? Kind of a thing. And it's really hard because there's all these descriptions of the tabernacle and it feels really boring. Oh, let's be read two times that if you're listening to it, whatever, but actually the tabernacle is really cool because in part, what it's doing is recreating the garden of Eden. And almost every Christian misses this. So let's think about the garden of Eden for a second. When Adam and Eve sin, they are kicked out and they are kicked out towards the east and they go towards the east. And then what does God do to guard the tree that is in the garden? He puts cherubim. It says cherubim at the front of the garden. And so there's no way to get back into the presence of God, except wait, God does provide a way to get back into the presence of God through the tabernacle. We actually have a drawing to kind of show and to help people see what is happening here, is when you go into the tabernacle, you're going into the presence of God and you have to come from the east towards the west. And what do you have to go through? Cherubim that are on a veil. You have to pass by a menorah. A menorah was. So wait, on the veil, there was woven cherubim. I forgot that. Yep. Bro. Interesting. It keeps going. Garden. Okay. Yeah. It keeps going. So then you've got that menorah. It has seven. That's going to be important in a minute. But what does it kind of just look like if you looked at it real quick? It's a tree. A tree. And in fact, it has almonds and branches woven into the gold so it looks like a tree. And then you have to go into the Holy of Holies. But to do all of this, it takes what? It takes atonement. It takes atonement to get back into the presence of God. So it's recreating literally the Garden of Eden. And so you had this tabernacle. I think we actually have a picture though of what the encampment around it would have looked like. Now let's go, yeah, that one, the encampment of Israel. Yeah. This is amazing. So this is what it would have looked like. Okay. Now, if you're watching this and you're a Christian and the red lights aren't flashing on your dashboard, you're not saved. It's like, you may be like the two, if it really was the aunt and the uncle, that makes the fact that they didn't recognize Jesus even funnier, by the way. It's like, it might be kind of like one of those situations right here. So here's the tabernacle that was in the middle of camp, the presence of God in the middle of camp. But what you have, if you're not watching this. This is literally when the camps would set around it, it would make it into the shape of a cross. Yeah. And we know this because God dictated exactly on which side of the tabernacle, each of the 12 tribes were supposed to camp. And the scriptures record the number of people in each tribe. Exactly. That's how we actually know it was a big cross with the presence of God at the middle wandering through the wilderness. And here's what's so cool that I think this is pointing to is that the tabernacle did give the ability to get back into the presence of God. But for only one person on one day a year. But when Christ died, it talks about eventually the tabernacle became the temple. It talks about how that curtain was torn into so that now all could have access to God for all time if they placed their faith in Jesus. Yes. But it gets even better because the tabernacle shows up in another place in scripture, but you have to really look hard for it. It shows up in the book of Revelation, but I need to show you something else to help you see it. Go to the one that has the tribes and the banners. This is also a depiction of tribes and banners just to the left of what you just clicked on. There you go. This is another depiction of how they would have camped around it. They put them side by side to fit it all on one page. But at the heads of the different kind of cardinal directions, you had different tribes that would have had different banners at them, right? So you had one of an eagle, a lion, a man, and an ox at these four. So if we go to the book of Revelation, it says this around the throne, remember the Ark of the Covenant would have been the idea. That's the throne of God. On each side of the throne are four living creatures full of eyes in front behind. The first living creature like a lion, the seventh living creature like an ox, the third living creature that's the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. So the idea is this, is that because what Christ did on the cross, we do have access to the presence of God now, but it's not uninhibited because we still live in a world of sin and shame. But one day we will be gathered around the throne of God, just like the Israelites were, and we will be on the uninhibited access and presence of God. The presence of God, just like Adam and Eve were before they sinned. Wow. Wait, while he's doing it, let me go a layer deeper on this one, because dude, there's so much here. So day of atonement, obviously literally called atonement. Atonement is a big word, just break it down. It means at-one-ment. How do you make two people who are at odds into one, reconciled, at-one-ment? So on the day of atonement, high priest, obviously, he first of all, he would take two, there was two goats, so you got an innocent animal. Again, we're just teaching you. We're teaching you, man. Listen, we're teaching you how to read the whole Bible. Yeah. To where it's just a series of mind-melts and points you to Jesus, okay? So he takes two goats. One of them is called the scapegoat. Remember what he does? They confess and place the sins of all the people on the scapegoat and send it out in the wilderness to literally, physically, visually show that God is separating you from your sins as far as the East is from the West. That's what he's showing. And then number two, he's a, the other one is called the scapegoat. Yeah. So he's a scapegoat. Yeah. So he's a scapegoat. And that's Jesus. And that's Jesus. And it's the whole Old Testament is watching the sixth sense the second time. It's amazing. I think even just as a practical thing around this, just four helpful questions that I think people can ask whenever you're reading the Bible. I tell you, if you get stuck, ask these four questions. It's a nice little grid, especially if you're learning to read the Bible. First question is, hey, what did this mean to the people who had received this in their time? Like what was God trying to say to the people in their time? Kind of a thing that becomes important whenever you try to apply the Bible in your life, because if you start having it say stuff to you in your time that they would have never read in their time, you're probably off kind of a thing. Number two, hey, are there any truths in here that are true for all time? Are there things about God or things about humans that are true in all places in all times? Number three, what does this mean for me in my time? Here's a key one though. I did not say, what does this mean to me? With all due respect and all love and grace, no one cares, especially God, what the passage means to you. And that does not matter what it means to you. It's what did it mean for the people who received it? And what does it mean for all time? And then what does it mean for you in your time? What is God trying to speak to you right now, wherever you're at? This is you applying the Bible to your life. It doesn't matter what it means to you. It does matter what it means for you. Exactly. How should I respond to the truth that is in the Bible? But then number four, how does this point to the author of time, Jesus Christ? And often, oh, there we go. We got kind of four fancy, a little chart that I made for us. Because if you only do that first one, if you only say, hey, what did this mean to the people in their time? That's just a history lesson. If it's, hey, what does this mean for all time? That's a theology lesson. If it's only, hey, what does this mean for me? It's going to be an adventure in missing the point. Like, for example, I knew someone one time who, man, they were reading the Bible, they were reading the book of Exodus, and it got to the point where the Pharaoh said, hey, I'm actually going to take away your supplies, but you got to make just as much, if not more. And the person said, I think this is just God telling me I just need to work harder. And I was like, man, I love you reading the Bible, just in this, Pharaoh's the bad guy, not the guy you want to emulate here. So it's just an example, though, because they left out the first two, they got the third one wrong. But then it's like, hey, at the end of the day, man, you want every passage of scripture to point you to the one who is for all time, the one who is at the center of the whole story, and that's Jesus Christ. So just four helpful questions for you as you're reading the Bible. You ever heard about that guy who said, Lord, speak to me and grab the Bible. And then he opened it and went to Matthew 27, five, and it says, then Judas went and hung himself. And then he said, oh, no, that's definitely not it. I'm going to try again. Then he went to Luke 10, 37, and then he found go and do likewise. And then he's like, no, no, no, there's no chance. The third time's the charm. And then he landed on John 13, 27, what you're about to do. Do it quickly. That's the old preacher joke. I've used that thing like 40 times. Good old, good old, tried and true. You're saying, you're saying, Paul, don't do that. Don't jump to number three. I do those first two questions first, and then I can have you there. Wait, can I do one last one? Please. All right. Do you have one or do you need to do it? I had another one, but we will. Let me rapid fire these. Let's rapid fire them. And then we're going to talk Jaden Ivey and that stuff. All right. So Abraham, obviously Abraham's in Sodom. Lot's over there. Abraham comes. This is one of my favorite ones. This is one I'm like, oh, dang, I didn't see that. And now I totally see it. Abraham's in Sodom and he knows Lot's family's there, his boy. And so he starts interceding to God. Abraham is functioning as a mediator between sinful man and a holy God. And remember how he starts praying? I love this. He starts praying. He's like, hey, God, if I can find 50 righteous people, will you spare the whole city on the behalf of 50? And God's like, deal. And everyone's like, oh, what about 40? God's like, deal. 40. He's like, oh, 30, 30, 30. What if I just found 30? And God's like, absolutely, Abraham, deal. Abraham's going, 20. God says, deal. Abraham gets down. The last request he makes, he says, what if I can just find 10? Just 10 righteous people. And God, I just imagine God almost with a knowing look on his face about what's going to happen in 2,000 years, God's like, Abraham, if you can find 10 righteous people, you bet you I'll spare them. But Abraham never continues his prayers because what Abraham could have done is he could have gone, what about nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two. And then Jesus comes, who is the offspring of Abraham, the New Year? And he says, I'm going to give you one righteous man. And I think essentially what Jesus does is he picks up Abraham's prayer and he looks up at heaven and says, what about one? If I can give you one righteous man, can I plead the blood of one righteous man to save all the people? And I think God is essentially picking up Abraham's prayer and going, you bet. You bet I can. And that's how Jesus saved us. Now, dude, we could literally do this for hours. Like, no joke. Like, we could do this for hours and do not your hearts burn within you. It's just what it does. So for all of our listeners, man, when you're reading the Old Testament, I want to just verbal highlight something Paul said, and then let's wrap this up talking Jaden Ivey getting fired for saying just a normal Christian thing. Say it in the Bible. You know, yes, you know, like, like Paul said, you know, Paul said, when we read the Bible, we want to ask, okay, God, what did this mean for them? What does this mean for me? I cannot encourage you strongly enough when you're reading the Old Testament to ask the third question. How does this point forward to the person and work of Jesus Christ? That's when your Bible becomes like a nuclear bomb in your lap. Yes. Will not your hearts burn within you? And there's freedom to know as well, man, like, you know, oftentimes we tend to think a lot about me, but then when you open up the scripture, you end up focusing less about you and more about Jesus. And man, there's just something so freeing about that. So much, dude. Amazing. All right. Let's, uh, let's talk NBA players getting fired for saying things that Christians have believed for 2000 years, 5,000, if you include the old covenant. All right. So here's the deal. And the reason I want to bring this up is this honestly brings up something that I would say a majority of Christians in America, like, have to ask where they work in their workplace. So here's the backstory on this. Jaden, I'm a, I'm an NBA head. So Jaden Ivey was a lottery pick. Like Jaden Ivey was a legit NBA draft pick. He wasn't drafted by the Bulls. I can't remember who he's drafted by, but ended up in the Bulls. So it starts here at Jaden Ivey after a pretty rough past was apparently radically saved. If I'm understanding the parts is correctly gets radically saved. Then he's doing like an Instagram live and essentially what he's doing, we're going to show it to you here in a second. What he's doing is he's pointing out that honestly, I've always wondered, like, I've always thought, oh, I would get fired from any professional sports team. And that's not just because of lack of talent. I would get, because they I've always, they make these guys during June. They make like all of them. They make all these guys where all the LGBT, all the pride flag stuff. And I've always been like, dude, if you're a Christian in the league, you're going to handle that. Like, so Jaden is very fairly in this Instagram live kind of sounding off on this phenomenon and the problem it creates from his Christian. Now watch what he says. Check, let's do this first. The world can proclaim LGBTQ. Right. They have, they have, they proclaim pride month and the NBA. Yeah. They proclaim it. They, they show it to the world. They say, come, come, uh, come join us for pride, for pride month to celebrate unrighteousness. That's it. Okay. Yeah. You're good. You're good there now. Okay. So he says this, join us for pride month, celebrate unrighteousness. First of all, that's a hundred percent true. Yeah. That is, that is a very basic, biblical application. That is a hundred percent true. So then the very next day it took, it took less than, I think it was like 15 hours. Bulls post this on their Instagram account. Uh, Chicago Bulls announced today, the team has wave guard Jaden Ivy due to conduct detrimental to the team immediately. Like didn't even take one day. Now I want to point out a couple of things about this. First of all, you've got players all over the NBA who, uh, who have, who have beaten their wives, who have, uh, been found guilty of domestic abuse, uh, who have made, I mean, you can, yeah, like I actually looked it up. There's like 60 examples. It's not, it's not awesome. All of them still got their jobs, but you say one thing that Christians have believed for 2000 years or 5,000 include the old covenant. You're gone in a day. Now I'm going to show you here in a second. I want to show you how, um, how, uh, people that call themselves Christians, but are either on purpose or accidentally playing for the other team, how they respond when a Christian with convictions and courage acts like a Christian with convictions and courage. But I just want to point out a couple of things about this, and then I'll, I'll have to hear your thoughts. And then we'll respond to Emmanuel Osho real quick. First of all, to my fellow, I know we got a ton of pastors that watch this podcast. I just want to gently, but firmly encourage pastors, um, pastors, have like an ick. There's a huge ick factor among pastors. I'm talking to like my, this is like insider. baseball real quick. Everybody else is listening in. There's like a huge ick factor among pastors for like leaning in on what are called quote unquote culture war issues. I would just like to remind every pastor that's watching this is that you are literally the only person in your entire church who has the luxury of avoiding quote unquote culture war issues because you get to live in a tithe dollar created bubble by the generous giving of your people and they actually have to walk out the door and work in actual real world offices and risk their jobs where they're faced with questions and issues like that every single day. So I just gently want to encourage pastors like how are you going to expect your people to have convictions and courage in their workplaces when you won't have convictions and courage in your pulpit? So I just gently want to remind pastors who tend to have an ick factor. about like talking about issues like this because I don't want to sound like a culture warrior. Well hey man here's the deal. The culture war is interested in you and the culture war is interested in the people that God puts you on this planet to shepherd and protect. So I just gently want to like use this as a moment to say like hey man do your job. Be willing to lean over the plate. Be willing to go over the middle and you may take a few hits but that's okay. That's what we signed up for. And again the courage of your people is never going to rise above the courage of their pulpit and their pastor. So number one I just want to point that out. Number two and three I also want to point out there is a again it's a very demonic double standard. So what you got is players can rob their families and they can beat women. They can make very open very openly anti-christian comments from both players and coaches. I have some examples. I won't use them for the moment. Very openly they can make extremely polarizing political comments you know commentary on things like BLM or how ICE are murderers and do it like this is stuff that's literally happened. Zero consequences. But the second somebody voices a Christian belief about marriage and sexuality you're gone. You're gone. So I just want to point out the demonic double standard. Okay. I also just want to gently point this out and I'm not an idiot. For people that you know I'm not stupid and I'm not unselfaware. I know that what a lot of pastors say about me is oh Josh went off the rails and he started getting political. Okay. There's a million things I could say about that. The biggest one I want to say is hey man I didn't start getting political. Politics started getting spiritual. Because when you have issues like that and people when you address them people call you political. No man all I did is just open my Bible and apply it to the world that my people have to deal with. So what I want to point out with and you can call me partisan all you want. I don't care. I just want to point out the reality to Christians who and every Christian should engage in the political process. I just gently want to point out man you can say all you want. Oh the gospel is neither right nor left. Okay the gospel is neither right nor left but the gospel is about right and wrong. And there is a moral asymmetry but in the current political taxonomy and stuff like that that gets ignored or makes makes it impossible to be a publicly a convictional Christian in a workplace. Stuff like that only comes from one political side. I'm sorry man that's just reality. There's only one political side that does stuff like that. So like as a Christian we need to acknowledge reality and play the game that has been handed to us and acknowledge that reality. Now last thing I want to say is here's what I want to point out and I want to talk about this. I want to respond to Emmanuel Osho real quick. It is not a coincidence that in the Old Testament the demonic false gods in the Old Testament are very frequently they mix their demonism with sexual perversion. You all right over there? Yeah I was going to sneeze. They mix their demonism with sexual perversion. So when you're reading the Old Testament about the gods like Moloch. Asherah. By the way all Asherah is in the Old Testament a lot of people don't know this. All Asherah was whenever you see in the Old Testament it talks about the Asherah poles in high places. This is going to sound real gross but like this is just what the Bible is. All it was was a massive phallic symbol that these people who worship this demonic false god of Asherah. Honestly I'm just going to say if you've got a mom with kids in the car like just mute this for five seconds real quick. If anybody's not picking it up like all those were were like. Giant penis statues that they would worship and do extremely sexually degraded things around in demonic in demon worship in the New Testament when it talks about the Revelation chapter three mentions Jezebel that was apparently some kind of demonic spirit because it's referring back to something that happened in the book of Kings in the Old Testament but it's saying hey the same things happen in the church says demonic spirit and it says that what that demonic spirit does is it quote teaches and seduces my people. To practice sexual immorality. So what you need to understand is what demons do is they mix with sexual perversion and they create demonic false sexually perverse and degraded religious expressions. So dude here's the thing and I get crushed every time I talk about this we get crushed but it's like we just need to help people understand the spiritual realities that the LGBT movement if you're asking yourself the question like man how did essentially this movement like take over like it literally took over our culture in two decades like two and a half decades. How did that happen. Because it's a demonic thing and it functions like a religion. So think about this for a second. LGBTQIA all those things. It's a religion. It's a religion of demonic sexual perversion. Every letter in the LGBTQIA plus functions like a denomination of the religion. And if you like thinking people have started asking that question. themselves like huh. Well why are they like so passionate about having drag queens read books to little kids in libraries. Why are they so passionate about that. Why are they so passionate about having like gay porn books. Gay porn literature books in elementary schools and they lose their minds when people want to take extremely graphic homosexual perverse books out of kids elementary schools. Why are they so passionate about this. Well here's why. Because eventually every religion has to get into children's ministry. That's why. Now let me take it a step further. Here's what like what good Bible readers got to learn to do is let me take the word and use it as a taxonomy to overlay on the world that's in front of me. So here's the deal man. Christians are not good at like making this connection. Here's the deal. Every religion has its Pharisees. So here's the deal. Usually in our culture when people hear the word Pharisee they think of like super conservative Bible thumper that's angry at people all the time. And by the way there are horrible awful satanically empowered people with Bibles in their hands thumping them and being agents of condemnation. Absolutely. But honestly dude in our culture. So who are the Pharisees. The Pharisees were people who had serious political and cultural power. They were the cultural elites of their day and they enforced the cultural hegemony the cultural orthodoxy that was there. And if anybody crossed them it was like dude we're going to trouble. We're in trouble man. No grace. No grace. No grace. Right now dude it's people in that movement like honestly I'll just here's the best way to say it. Honestly secular progressive people are the modern day Pharisees of our culture. They force and enforce a rigid orthodoxy on the surrounding culture. And if you cross their line and you apostatize from it they will judge you damn you excommunicate you and make sure you get fired. So you just got to start learning to like put the spiritual realities together. You're dealing with a religion. Religions are spiritually empowered either by the Holy Spirit or unholy spirits. And every religion has its Pharisees. Those are the Pharisees. You mentioned a lot of different passages. Romans 1 is so intriguing on this one because Romans 1 is often pointed out where this is where Paul explicitly says no like any kind of homosexual behavior is not honoring to God. It's not God's design. But what does he address just before he does that. He addresses idolatry. That's right. And he says because they were not willing to worship God as he actually is he gave them up to dishonorable passions is literally what it says. And so I think about what Paul in another place in Corinth says idol worship is is the worship of demons. And so the idea of they're not worshiping God correctly and so God hands them over. And so it literally says and this is actually pretty close to what Jordan said. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness. So he's pretty much just quoting Romans 1. Now before I read this verse remember what Jaden Ivey is objecting to is man they're making me as a Christian NBA player celebrate and promote pride. month. They're making me get, I'm going to use this language. They're making me publicly give approval to those who practice this unrighteousness. Now that in mind, let me read Romans 132. Though they know God's degree that those who practice such things deserve to die. And it's just talking about sinners, sinners in general, sin deserves death. They not only do them, but they give approval to those who practice them. Every culture war is a spiritual war in disguise. That's, bro, that's the thing. So like for pastors who are listening, I get this all the time. Like, don't lean into the culture wars. My brother, it's called a culture war. It's actually a spiritual war. Like literally our job is to not run away from spiritual wars. That's literally our job. Now let me just, what I want to help you with is, I want you to help me with this. I want you to help people understand because every Christian is going to get faced with stuff like this. Like the Jaden Ivey thing, that's a microcosm of what, I won't use any names, what men and women in our church have had to happen to them. And again, no names. But like we have multiple NBA players that listen to this podcast. So it's like helping guys, how do I think about this? Okay. How do I think about this? So check this out. This is Emmanuel Acho, who's a sports commentator. He's a, I think he's an ESPN guy. Uh, he calls himself a Christian. Um, and I, you know, I don't want to go too hard on him. Um, but on this big, big swing and a miss, the reason I want to do this is he's commenting, um, on that Jaden Ivey deal. The reason I want to do this is whenever you as a Christian begin to live by your convictions, what you are about to see is what all the lukewarm Christians around you are going to start saying about you. So I want to help inoculate you to what 1000% is going to happen to you from people who call themselves Christians. Okay. So, uh, check the, check this out. Let's go for it. There is freedom of speech, but freedom of speech does not necessarily mean freedom of consequence. I also will remind everybody, starting from the sports perspective, your talent will make room for you. If Jaden Ivey was averaging 20 points and 10 assists right now, 20 points and 10 boards right now, we probably wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be having this conversation, but because in January of 2025, he broke his left fibula. And then in October of 2025, he had arthroscopic knee surgery. And then again, he's missed, uh, the last two weeks he had missed starting in February 21st, after getting traded from the Detroit Pistons to the Chicago Bulls as a result, averaging 11 points and three assists, his talent is not making room for him. Plus if you're in the training room, we do not pause, pause, pause. So what he said is your talent will make room for you. Listen, man, here, here's my big deal. What I would say is yes, Emmanuel, and your righteousness, will make rewards for you. Whose team do you care the most about being a star on? So like, this is basic parenting 101. Like when my kids come home and they're, they're using words like cool and popular, what Jan and I immediately do is like cool in whose eyes, popular in whose eyes, in God's eyes or in some fourth grader that's a fool and, and is a godless fool at that. So it's like, he, it's like, what I want to say is, man, he said your talent will make room for you. Yeah. Yeah. And your righteousness will make rewards for you and praise God for a Christian that cared more about living by his convictions and seeking eternal rewards than quote unquote, making sure your talent makes room for you. So what I'd say is, man, whose team are you trying to make and who's, who's, who are you trying to earn reward from? Yeah. Well, and I think with that, it's much like when I hear them, like, so are you saying that if he was doing that, it'd be okay for him to do that? So if he was scoring 20 and you said that you'd have no problem with it then? Yeah. And I thought he was in the, that's the response question I'm going to have. So I'm like, starting with that kind of, to me, it kind of feels like a non-starter. Cause I'm like, I get what he is saying in terms of the practicality of it, but at the same time, so you're saying, so then everybody would be okay with it. And the reality is we, you and I both know everybody would not be okay with it. We'd still have the double standard. No, I do think there would be a double standard. I do think like, like, bro, like Seth Curry or somebody said that, like, uh, you would not see the team cut, um, in 14 hours. That's right. Yeah. That's right. It's just a reality. All right. Let's keep going. I want you to see this. We necessarily want to hear from you. We want to just see you recovering. So from a sports perspective, starting there, athletes, you know, your talent makes room from you. The talent starts to diminish. We do not want to hear you more than we see you. That's number one. This is nasty. Number two, this is nasty. I don't like the path that Jaden Ivey is going down. And the reason I say this is this number one, Jaden Ivey has been through a lot. If you hear what he's talked about, he was a sexually molested as a child. Um, he had a porn video of him while he was married. He's self-admitted that he was abusive towards his wife and his children. Pause. Yeah. That's why he hates perversion. It's like, I just want to pause and say that. Like, like my dad was saved out of alcoholism. My dad has a unique hatred for alcohol. What you're, what you're pointing out is that it's this, you're just going, Oh, who's this guy to have this conviction? Because he came out, it's like, bro, that's why he hates it. He's seen what perversion and degradation can do to a man. Of course he has a care about it. Now, what I really don't like is watch what happens here. He starts questioning the guy's mental stability. These are all Jaden Ivey's words, not my own. And so Jaden Ivey is also acknowledging like he's a struggle, a struggling individual or an individual that has struggled. So let me acknowledge that, acknowledge the emotional and the interpersonal aspects as well. Anybody that's been to therapy understands things that happened to you as a child, they impact you as an adult. Now, let me talk about the biblical. Yeah. Pause it real quick. So he's obviously, he's alluding to the whole mental health thing. So this was, and I've seen this, if you guys seen this where people are starting to like, ah, maybe he has some mental health issues and that kind of thing. First of all, he may, I don't know. I don't know. I've seen no evidence of that. So if it comes out later, then okay, whatever. Uh, but I do just want to point out there is a double standard here and here's the double standard. And this is kind of thing, just keep the camera on me. So they don't Think about what's happening. What you have is a Christian heterosexual man, a Christian heterosexual man that's saying that same-sex sexual activity is unrighteous. That's all he said. We played the clip. That's all he said. As a result, people are going, that guy probably has mental health issues. Now, let me just remind us, until 1973 in the official DSM manual in the United States, homosexual orientation, same-sex orientation, same-sex sexual orientation was classified until 1973 as a mental health disorder. In 1973, they changed it. They changed the name of it to, they reclassified it as quote-unquote sexual orientation disturbance. It stayed in the DSM as a form of mental health disorder until it was removed entirely from activist pressure. Now, man, can I just point this out? The Christian heterosexual man that's saying that, man, that's unrighteous, that's the guy that everybody wants to call the mental health issue, when until five minutes ago in human history, what we understood is, man, actually something's wrong if somebody's attracted to the same sex. And I just want, like, man, obviously, all of us as disciples of Jesus Christ, friend of sinners, when somebody struggles with same-sex attraction, my goodness, mercy, compassion, love, love that person, want to help disciple them just like everybody else out of any issue that they face. But very frankly, if a dude is sexually attracted to another dude, yes, there is something wrong. If a chick is attracted to other girls, yes. Something is wrong. So we have the mental health issues flipped. Why? Because what demonic false prophets always do, according to the book of Isaiah, woe to you who begin to call good evil and evil good. That's always what happens. Now, all right, keep going. Check this out. Because Jaden Ivey also has to understand that not everything that's legal is going to be biblical. Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. Also have to understand you have to be wise, discerning. Hang on. So on the render to Caesar what is Caesar, I just want to point this out. First of all, he didn't say anything about legality. He just called it unrighteous. Like, hey, man, I don't like as a Christian being forced to participate in pride celebrations. That's all I said. The other thing I want to say, and man, if Emmanuel watches this, first of all, dude, I love most of your stuff. So like, please don't take this as like, I mean, I just think you missed it here as a brother. And I think it's important because you're hurting the convictions and the courage of Christians who are watching you. That's why I'm saying this. What I want to point out is he's bringing up the render to Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what's God's. Well, hey, bro, guess what the point of that whole parable, that whole little saying is. Jesus does that whole thing where it's like, hey, whose likeness and inscription is on the coin? Caesar's. And then Jesus does the, hey, well, then render unto Caesar what Caesar's and render unto God's what's God's. And everyone around him knew, well, man, remember from the book of Genesis, guess whose likeness and inscription is on you and you and you and you and Caesar. You're created in God's likeness and God's likeness. God's image. The whole purpose of that thing is not, well, we just let Caesar do and enforce evil. And because Caesar says it, we just. let him do his thing we stay over here the whole purpose of that little statement of jesus is caesar belongs to god and caesar should not be uh enforcing anything as good that god calls evil all right let's let's keep going he's now right here back up to to 130 because he actually makes an important point here yeah also have to understand you have to be wise discerning and tactful as to how you speak and when you speak and who you speak to true jay knife if you want to quote paul in corinthians paul wrote what he wrote to the church in corinth he didn't necessarily write what he wrote to the church in ephesus or the church in galatia in the same manner jay knife you got to use discernment of when you speak and who you're speaking to if your job and your goal is to emulate jesus also understand boss so first of all let me just say true yeah it actually is true yes that as christians you don't just walk in every building just start spouting every conviction you have that's necessarily offensive he's right you do need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness there now let me ask you guys real quick thoughts for biblical principles for christians that are listening well how do i know when i do speak about my convictions in a in a public setting and when do i not you guys got any what guiding principles you got here yeah yeah first of all you have to be mindful that you know people will say today um well hey josh you're a christian you shouldn't impose your views on other people um but when somebody says that to you you need to understand that uh those are the principles that you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness you need to have tactfulness people saying that they don't realize that by saying that you are literally imposing your view on other people as well like you're doing the very same thing that you're complaining about so that's one just be mindful the question is not whether we will impose views on other people the question is whose views will be imposed on other people uh man first peter 3 15 says but in your hearts revere revere christ as lord always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have in other words be ready when somebody says hey you're a christian why do you believe uh lgbtq pride celebration is a Christian thing why do you believe that religion is unrighteous uh bible literally commands us to be prepared to respond but then the key word is right after that it says but when you do it do it with gentleness and respect respect and so i think uh when christians share truth we do it with conviction but we also do it with compassion yes and so we want to be bold and at the same time we have we want to have a heart that is brokenhearted for the people that are lost and so we want to we we're sinners saved and so when we share other people what is true ultimately is to point them to the person who said i am the truth that's ultimately to point people to jesus we want to win souls not just arguments that's right man yeah at one point jesus said behold i'm sending you out as sheep amongst wolves uh so and but then he literally then connects that to so therefore be as shrewd as a serpent and as innocent as a dove so in your conduct be innocent but then there is this idea of hey i'm sending you out as sheep amongst wolves you got to be shrewd you've got to be wise you've got to be in almost like cunning and how to be shrewd and how to be wise and how to be wise and how you're you're um behaving and so even like there's this temptation for christians i'm like all right i'm gonna take a stand and go out in a blaze of glory and sometimes you might be called to do that but it's noteworthy that in the first two or three hundred centuries while christianity was so very much persecuted that's not what christians did they didn't just go out and in front of the marketplace say i am a christian kill me now no they at some points had to be willing to take a stand for their faith when it was necessary but they didn't necessarily go looking for a fight and so i think that's just one thing because i've had friends in the marketplace when i was up in washington had a friend that was in a company that they said they were going to put their preferred pronouns on their emails yeah and then you had to say i opt out if you didn't want it so you had to basically step forward and he struggled with that and so on the one hand because he was very much because he knew he's going to put a mark on his back because yeah because we had a bunch and there were people going for his position and he knew that they could potentially use this to leverage to get him out to get his position oh yeah and so it's it's hard because he's a faith he was a faithful brother and there were places where he had to take some stands but he was also still trying to be shrewd so that he could be a light in that workplace and he knew that this could be a thing and so i guess one thing and the hard thing is every situation is so different by the way this is why for those who aren't who are listening from not not here um being in a local church is so crucial because every situation is so complicated this is why you need good local pastors and elders who can go get counsel from people who can listen to you know your situation but it's just an example where he didn't go looking for fights everywhere but then occasionally he had to take a stand so like with that being said you know maybe jayden ivy was unwise just to throw this out there when no one was asking him the question i'll just go and say that's actually what not what we're frustrated about i think i'm correct to say what we're frustrated about is the double standard of a lot of what's taking place here that it's not right in every direction and even as i brought up to you guys when you're texting back and forth about this is that the chicago bulls let him go because of this and you didn't say anything when the nba renewed their contract with united arab emirates for 300 million dollars where by the way they don't just consider it unrighteous to practice same-sex acts they consider it illegal yes let's pause and just say this one more time the the nba just entered into a contract with a nation yes where it is illegal yeah to practice any form of homosexuality yeah and when this happened but then jayden ivy i saw so many nba players and teams and people to say no you can't do this this is so terrible no no they didn't so i think all that being said and i'll wrap up is that's i think part of a lot of what we're frustrated at is like hey if you're going to do something be consistent in it but i say just to christians to say hey there might be some places where honestly you might need to practice some discretion about where you do that but then if it is forced upon you you need to be willing to take the heat just like daniel was when it came time yeah man so like i think a principle so two two things i would say is obviously as a christian what you don't do is you don't do what you're supposed to do and you don't do what you're supposed to do and you don't lead in your relationships with whatever is the thing that's like the whatever's going to be the most offensive thing so here's the here's the example i have so in first corinthians 5 this is a really this is a really important guiding verse here in first corinthians 5 paul's got that deal where there's the dude that's sleeping with a stepmom and they have to they have to practice uh church discipline on the guy and kick him out of the church uh because he's unrepentant severe sexual degradation now listen what paul says here so first corinthians 5 9 i wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people but then he's got to make a qualifier and here's his qualifier verse 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world since then you would need to go out of the world so essentially he's gone hey bro welcome to life in rome you're not gonna meet essentially he's gone you're not gonna meet like a chaste heterosexual monogamous dude in rome so he's gone man obviously i'm not telling you i'm not telling you i'm not telling you i'm not telling you to avoid anybody that's like that so then here's he qualifies he says but now i'm writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother so a christian if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed or is an idolater reviler drunkard swindler and he's saying like people who are they're they're reveling in the sin it's totally unrepentant they're actually promoting it as a fine and positive thing he's saying don't even eat with such a one and then this is what's important verse 12 for what have i to do with judging outsiders is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge god judges those outside okay so what i would say is hey man when you're talking to lost people did you just they're gonna be lost people don't be surprised about them being lost people whenever i talk to somebody like on a plane or whatever i talked to a guy in the airport this week and i'm having faith conversations if anything about sexuality comes up i'll be honest usually what i do and somebody may yell at me and tell me i'm wrong but here's what i do is i'm trying to get the first thing first because once they get the lordship of jesus everything else is gonna fall into line you don't start with second things first so what i usually do is if they ask me about anything sexuality i say hey man actually i'll answer any question you want any question i want but honestly dude here's what i'd encourage you to do is just figure out where you are on jesus and then try to figure out what he says about everything else that's great but really first just figure out the first thing first or you're gonna get confused by all the second things i would just focus on what you think about did jesus rise from the dead yeah and once you figure that out then you can figure out what he says about everything else that's great now i do always toss in i'll answer any question you want but i'll be super honest i try to matador them just and just let and because i just want to talk about jesus yeah you know now the the one thing i would say to acho over here is like when's if you're when is the spot where i do say something i actually think what ivy did was uh was a strategic and courageous thing because the principle that i've got i'm gonna go back to daniel yeah when someone is asking you to violate your convictions as a christian that's when you say something yep and very frankly uh will you toss up that throw toss up that picture of the bulls last uh last june yeah i mean yeah there you go there you go there you go that's the bulls stadium last june and on every on every single player's jersey they asked them to wear as a promotion of something that no christian can support they asked them to wear the so the bulls are as people are like oh why did jayden ivy bring a fight to the bulls jayden ivy didn't bring a fight to the bulls the bulls brought the fight to jayden ivy and essentially tried to go bow down son seems like they're trying to impose their religion on other people as well uh that's it so think about here's what i'll say and then we'll finish it up uh we'll finish up this ocho thing we're gonna be done notice what daniel does if you go back and read daniel one two and three so daniel he gets captured by this pagan babylonian empire they bring him in they tell him where he's gonna live they tell him what school he's gonna go to they literally castrate him and then they start teaching him all their pagan stuff but then there comes a moment where they start telling him what he's got to eat and they try to make him eat stuff that was in violation of the old testament commands on cleanliness laws and that's where daniel goes sorry i got a line yeah and here's my line i'll live in your nation i'll go to your school i even just let you castrate me and i'll study your books but i will not let you make me sin and that's where a christian has to decide yep that's where my line is that's where my line is okay uh let's just finish her up here and when jesus saw the woman who had committed adultery he said go and sin no more he didn't then try to extrapolate every single sin and every single man she has slept with adulterously period pause pause that's not what jay nutty did i just want to say that's not what jay did he didn't do that uh keep going so i will just start by saying one understand there's a difference between legal and biblical to jade and ivy make sure you tend to your mental and emotional health if indeed there is anything going on because you have been very vulnerable about your struggles previously and then three render to caesar what is caesar's and render to god what's god's that's biblical if you want to talk yeah i'll just say this pull up that meme that is what just happened let's go back to daniel everybody needs to bow down to this idol and if you don't bow down you're gonna lose your job and what it took is one guy going sorry no and then you know if if somebody's a you know if somebody's a professional athlete somebody's in the league some you know somebody's doing this stuff uh the courage of one man what it ought to do is put courage in the hearts of the people who are in the league and the people who are in the league and then put courage in the hearts of other men and i'm not telling anybody how they need to handle stuff you know like paul said why is this serpents uh innocent as doves yeah but let the faith and courage of one guy spread and i just want to say good job jade and ivy amen uh you must obey god rather than men and i want to encourage jade and ivy with matthew 10 23 jesus said if you confess me before men i also will confess you before men for my father who is in heaven well done brother yeah pastor josh would you pray for us amen first of all father um we love you and we love people who don't know you coming to know you so father i just uh i pray for a lost and dying world that you would give all of us the heart of jesus christ who is a friend of sinners who died for sinners um so father more than anything else would you just give us a heart to seek and to save no matter the background no matter the sin no matter the ideology that's why i pray i also pray that you would strengthen the courage the hearts and the resolve of uh of christians just like your word says to uh to be strong stand firm be strong act like men let all that you do be done in love i pray that for that man and for men and women uh of the word all over the world and father i pray especially on this easter week that you would harvest a mass in gathering into your kingdom and that hundreds of thousands and millions of people would meet the risen jesus christ this easter as we're all celebrating i pray that in his resurrected name amen amen amen live free brother live free amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen