The Democratic Party's Civil War

This is LeVar Arrington from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe. Let me tell you about Xero. That's X-E-R-O. Xero is a financial management platform that loves giving small business owners the clarity to have the confidence in their numbers. It puts accounting payments, payroll, and analytics all in one place, so you always have one clear picture of your business. With visual dashboards, Xero makes it easy to understand your cash flow. You know exactly what's coming in and what's going out, so you can make smarter decisions that can help grow your business. Xero's AI can even offer insights to help you make your best move. It's powerful enough for an accountant and simple enough for you. Xero is the all-in-one to get business done. Learn more at Xero.com. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Kewpie mayo for a minute now, Bow, and wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Kewpie. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Kewpie? Uh, do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise, the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know it, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo. Well, the answer, egg yolks. Kewpie is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Kewpie it. So if you haven't tried Kewpie yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. It's a very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very, very, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good. Welcome to Pots of America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. You're about to hear a great conversation I just had with Amanda Libman, co-founder and president of Run for Something, an organization that has recruited more than 250,000 people to run for office. Since its founding in 2017, and she's the author of When We're in Charge, The Next Generation's Guide to Leadership. I invited Amanda on because I wanted to hear her perspective on where Democrats are heading into the 2026 midterms, how the fight between establishment and insurgent candidates is playing out in races across the country, especially in a heated Democratic primary in Michigan, and where the party goes from here. I also asked her about how Graham Plattner's decision to drop out of the main Senate race could impact Democrats' chances of taking back the Senate, and what she thinks as someone who has worked with thousands of candidates about their recruitment and vetting. All right, here's Amanda Littman. That's the end of the list of things they did right. What they did wrong is you cannot play kingmaker, and you really cannot play Mad Libs with candidate recruitment. You cannot look at a state like Maine or any district and say, you know what, we need X kind of occupation, Y demographic, Z type of politics. We're going to make this person into a candidate. One, we have no idea who the fuck can win. We have no idea. But two, it leaves open so much space for it to feel. Like a puppet master is creating the candidate as opposed to the candidate coming up organically. It is possible that he, like, notwithstanding all of his other personal stuff, that he might have come up through and, you know, seen an ad from Run for Something or gone to a Maine Democratic Party event and said, you know what, maybe I do see myself here, and then gone through the kind of rigorous, thoughtful process you need before you actually get on the ballot. That maybe could have been so. But they did not do that. They said, we're going to make this man into a. And they tried to puppet master it into being. That will backfire any number of ways. I obviously agree with all of that. Like, people have to want to run for office. You have to start with that, right? Which is, and we'll talk a lot about Run for Something in the course of this conversation, but people find you because they want to run for something. Yes. And I think it's, I just, I think it's really important to say that running for office sucks. Like, it is miserable. It is hard. You are, your life is going to be under a microscope. You need to want to do it anyway. We should not convince people to run. We should open the door. We should open the door to them. And then if they say yes, help them walk through it. We shouldn't push them through it. So that's one aspect of this, right? Trying to take someone who doesn't want to run for office and get them to run for it. Or is it, you know, a thought about it, right? It's one thing to, you've kind of thought about it for a while. You're, you know, maybe you want to do it. Maybe you don't. You're weighing considerations. And then people try to convince them to do it. The party committees do that all the time. That's how Janet Mills ended up in this race, which is she didn't really want to run for office. And I guess she would stop calling her. Yes. But there's another element of this, too, that has gotten a lot of attention, which is they went looking for a very specific type of person. Now, this to me doesn't seem that different from what the DCCC or other organizations do, right? They, you know, they look at a district. They look at the political environment. They say, these are the kinds of people who should run, who would be good candidates in this district or in this political environment. In the 2006 cycle, the DCCC under Rahm Emanuel went out and recruited a whole bunch of people. A whole bunch of Iraq and Afghanistan vets to run for office, you know, in an environment where people are very anti-war, very upset with Iraq, won a lot of races that way. DCCC, this cycle is looked at, you know, in the past, we've looked at prosecutors, sheriffs, still veterans, you know, fired federal workers are a group here. Is there anything wrong with thinking about, like, the kind of profession that would be the right people? Like, I understand the idea from these people's perspective, which is we want a working class candidate in Maine, right? There's all kinds of conversation about whether a partner is actually working class, but let's just put that aside for a second. And what is a great job in Maine to be a worker that is like, says, I am Maine, in their original conception was lobster, right? Like, let's get someone who fishes for lobsters. Is there anything wrong with that approach, that sort of casting call approach to it? I think it assumes that we know who can win, which sometimes we'll make a good guess. But, like, you can come up with dozens of examples of people who would never have been asked. Barack Obama being another, like, a top of the list. Who would have asked the one-term state senator, two-term state senator, a con law professor to run for higher office? No one. Who would have asked someone like Lauren Underwood, a nurse who was a black woman in a majority white district, to run for office? Who would have asked AOC? Who would have asked, you know, Ayanna Pressley? These leaders who are truly amazing public, like, figures in our party who you probably wouldn't have picked if you were going to start from scratch, but who, because they care. Because they had problems they want to solve, and the offices that they saw gave them power to solve it, decided to get in the fight. So, I think it is so risk-averse, and we are at a moment where our party can't afford to be risk-averse. Yeah, and I want to talk about how the Plattner thing affects our risk-aversion in a second. But let's pivot to the vetting. Because there's never been so much talk about vetting in history. In part, once again, because Marath and Phan did these interviews where they almost giddily admitted to barely vetting. Plattner, how do you think about the process of candidate vetting? It obviously did not work here, but, like, what is a, what can one reasonably expect to find out? And, like, what were the failure points here? So, I'll say, running for something has endorsed more than 4,000 candidates over the last 10 years. I believe we've had to rescind fewer than a dozen of those endorsements in the last decade. It's a pretty good track record. And for those incidences, there have been things that have come up, like, after the campaign has halted. There have been things that have come up, like, after the campaign has already started. Now, part of us, we work on the local level. The stakes are a little bit different there. But also, we do deep background checks. we do social media scraps we ask local operatives we dig deeper we also ask candidates and this i think is the most important part that platner would have failed here what are we going to find like what is what is the oppo report on you what is the opposition going to say if your worst secrets are on the front page of the newspaper what what's that headline going to read and how are you going to feel about it i think for us and this is true of our most vetting reports the what the candidate says in their own like self oppo is is the the the nut to crack and it doesn't seem like platner was going to be honest about those things maybe he didn't think they were flags in the first place or he didn't remember them whatever it might be for some of them i think that is where like it really matters that people want to do this so that they can be very open and honest with the teams and voters more importantly about what they're going to find yeah i really have been struggling with this because as you as you say the process you know for and it's it's different levels right what you guys would do for state senate candidates totally different than what theoretically should happen in a high-profile senate race and that is light years apart from what would happen in a presidential race which is why you don't pluck people from obscurity to run for senate right right and who don't want to right like that that is the thing and but so in if you look at the platner thing like there's there is the social media post now a good vetting should have found that because cnn found it and i don't know whether he told them that he found it but i don't know i don't know whether he told them that he found it and i don't know whether he told them that he found it because cnn found it and i don't know whether he told them that he had been doing i've been doing a lot of reddit posting in an earlier stage of life i imagine that that would have been something that would have been easier to say than some of the other things have happened that should have been found the tattoo is an interesting one i've thought about this a lot like what is the um like i don't know that in any candidate questionnaires do well there will be now i guess do you do you have any nazi-like tattoos do you have any problematic tattoos let me exist like disrobe so i can examine your tattoos his that nasty tattoo is not showing up in a lexus nexus or a google search about his history or a public record search but if you had talked to lots of people around them you some of them might have said because this is one of the reasons why you talk to people is they want to help their friends and family do this right and not get embarrassed so they will often tell you things like you know just one thing i would ask him about is there's this kind of weird tattoo you know that like that could have come up but like you also see how that falls through the cracks in a traditional particularly if you believe which i am now very skeptical of that he did not know until that it was nazi related until the end now i don't believe that he got it to be a nazi but i don't think he's been truthful about when he found out i do think like it is worth thinking about what are the things good vetting would have found and what are the things that we never could have known yeah the red the reddit post stuff should have been found yeah for sure and then you get to his relationships with women the i mean i can't believe we're having to have this conversation about this but the quote-unquote consensual sexting that went on was discovered in the vetting process his wife did what she was supposed to do which is she told the campaign she had the exact question that you raised she answered with there was this and the campaign made a decision not to deal with it in any way shape or form or not to proactively disclose it you know that that came back to bite them and then the other stuff like the the toxic nature of those relationships the sexual assault allegation are things that a campaign can only find out if the candidate tells them if the candidate is unwilling to tell them they may never know because it just it doesn't show up in that now once again in a presidential level vetting or vp level vetting the campaign would have gone out and talked to all the ex-girlfriends i don't know that that's a reasonable expectation for a senate race but planter is a failure of vetting on one end but the the things that ended his campaign is a failure of character on his part to be willing to tell them to the campaign right i'm not trying to defend moraff and fan but it's just i have gotten so many questions about vetting in this process i think it's just worth to help people understand like what is reasonable and they failed miserably but ultimately the failure was also planters i think that's right and i think his failure to be honest with them even about some of the things should have been the red flag for the people talking to him yes yes that's exactly right there were there were clearly red flags that in their interactions with him that should have raised more questions that led to more vetting so in my conversations with you know listeners to the show democrats out there there's a fair amount of defeatism about maine post-platinum the sense that we had this golden opportunity everything went wrong wrong candidate wrong approach from the dscc to kind of clear the field so we ended up with this choice between a flawed candidate and a candidate who didn't really want to run and couldn't beat that flawed candidate how are you feeling about the race going forward and we're recording this on thursday a couple hours before the first debate that the main democratic party is holding for the nomination to replace plattner i think the main democratic party so far has done a pretty good job of setting up a process that people feel like they can be a part of because i think that was the real danger was like the party would just pick somebody and then like force it down voters throats for lack of a better term or done their choice their menu they seem to have set up a process that gives people a voice and it seems like all of the candidates who are jumping in at least have some amount of run through the ringer whether they ran for governor they ran for congress they're public businessmen there's like there's not not as many nobodies i am still cautiously optimistic i mean maine is a state that voted for kamala susan collins is deeply unpopular trump is even more unpopular there does seem to be like a deep frustration uh with susan collins among mainers it's not a foregone conclusion that it's a non-starter i am curious to see how quickly whoever is going to take the nomination can raise money and what plattner does with his money and his infrastructure and how much he really uh engages with the the potential nominee or if he as his dropout videos seem to indicate harbors a lot of ill will towards this process yeah like his money is incredibly useful now he can only give a small amount of it to the nominee but he could theoretically give it all to the dscc of the dnc and the dnc can then now thank you to the roberts court use that money in an un in a uh fully coordinated process so i think that's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen in terms of how the process plays out in a fully coordinated fashion to spend it and unlimitedly on behalf of the nominee you know i feel and maybe this is just cope on my part i if this is gonna depend how the process plays out but if the process plays out like i hope it will which is i agree the main democratic party is doing so so far a great job ideally you'd have another primary everyone get a vote that is not obviously logistically feasible on this very tight timeline this is certainly better than just the party committee voting right now so i think that's certainly better than just the party committee voting right now so i think that's committee voting on one person behind closed doors this is at least people it'll happen there'll be a couple debates it'll happen but that's this convention will be very interesting lots of people will watch it the people will get a test this is kind of what might have helped us better into that in 2024 if other people had wanted to run against kamala they didn't so we never had that process but there's like a testing ground here where you'll get to see if some of these people you know it's not exactly like a primary campaign but it's as close as we're going to get so i think that's good i think we are if the process plays out and we end up with a candidate without a nazi tattoo or um a bunch of other things we're in a better position than we probably would have been had we ended up with either platner or mills platner in this like in this state it was platner before the sexual assault like an allegation just platner as he was on primary day or mills as the nominee like i think we actually have a chance that this race could god forbid be about susan collins which is what you want it to be because in that times poll there were an even platner after all the stuff was going on was still winning by two points by i think it's an 11 point margin people in maine want the democrats to control the senate so if you can actually just make this race about a vote for susan collins as a vote to let donald trump control the senate put supreme court justices on do all these bad things like you have a real shot if you can just have a generic democrat who is a like not generic democrat is the right word you need a talented generic democrat right someone who can just isn't flawed can campaign well but allows the focus to be on the candidate on susan collins not their own personal foibles like that but that's it seems like a in some ways are like a decent shot i still think we have a very real shot to win this race i really do i do too and i think the candidate who takes this nomination forward sort of has an indicator of where voters are now like can really speak to the anger that you know platner for all of his fuck-ups and there are many like he caught fire something like one percent of maine was volunteering for his campaign there he spoke to the anger and the fresh frustration that people feel he put forward some real like clarity of positions and the nominee who moves forward should be able to tap into that even if they don't weren't able to capture it in the primary themselves you know i i got served a tiktok video of platner because you know obviously nothing on tiktok is connected to the calendar so it actually was posted weeks and weeks ago and it's platner talking about how we have to stop making this between left and right and we got to point fingers up not down that's not pointing each other it's about the billionaires so like that is a legitimately good message that someone else could also have and it also is a reminder of it does remind you because i think some of the discourse is you know it's all because you know posse america's taken a lot of uh slings and arrows over this but it's all because these dumb podcasts with other people like platner that he wanted people forget he actually got 70 of the vote in the primary and blew the doors off the two-term incumbent governor like he was doing something he was the he was the wrong vessel but he was doing something that people of maine very much wanted and they were all very well aware of everything up until this last to the sexual assault delegation very aware of his things and they still wanted him and that's there's something in there that democrats have to take from that and i would add because i have also taken some heat here and i share the frustration Like, this was at no point ever a clearly moral right or wrong, because at every point up until he dropped out, it was either him or Susan Collins and a Trump-chalked Supreme Court. Like, those were the choices. Which is better for women, Graham Platner in the United States Senate or Trump Supreme Court justices? Ah, you know, like, it was bad. It was all bad. And I am so glad that he ultimately did the right thing and stepped aside, and I am glad that we get a chance so that those are not our only two choices. What do you think about, outside of Maine, and we'll talk about some of the other races coming in the House and Senate, Matt, but, you know, you and I have both argued, you've done this very eloquently, that Democrats need to be willing to take bigger risks. We have to change the way we're doing things. We have to change the way we communicate, the way we campaign, the kind of candidates we think about, that the way the establishment is doing things has been not as effective. So we would like a debate. It does, and the Platner debate, prior to the most recent stuff, but even up into the Reddit post and the Nazi tattoo, was a little bit of a proxy for this battle between, in some ways it's between the left and the middle, but in some ways it's also between people who want real change and people who want less change within the party. And it does, like, my worry with this is, and I'm going to get to Michigan because I think. I think these things are tied together in some ways, but it, like, I worry that people take this as a argument against taking risks, against candidates, widening the aperture on the kinds of candidates that we're open to, because Platner was in it, was obviously a very unique candidate with a unique background, but he blew up in our face. So therefore, ergo, the conclusion is we got to be more traditional. Like, what's your take on that? Are you seeing that too? I find that to be such an empty argument, because it's not like Janet Mills was the right choice either. She was the establishment's call. She was Schumer's pick. Schumer cleared the field for her, as we have seen Notice and others do very in-depth reporting on. Like, they got candidates to leave that race so that Janet Mills would run for the United States in it, and then they begged and pleaded her to get in. And then, not only did they leave her hanging out to dry when she was stopped being able to raise money, but it is telling that she's not throwing her hat in the ring to win the nomination now. She doesn't want to do this. This is not the path forward. So, like, to say that this proves that the establishment always gets it right and the new people always get it wrong, no, this is villains on all sides here. Everyone got this wrong. Yeah, I think it's exactly right. And I just, like, I just, I don't want people to think that this means that outsider candidates, you need the right outsider candidates, but we shouldn't have outsider candidates, you know, and the conversation around this is so, like, stupid, basically, because the thing, people Yeah, I think it's exactly right. And I just, like, I just, I don't want people to think that this means that outsider candidates, you need the right outsider candidates, you know, and the conversation around this is so, like, stupid, basically, because the thing, people Yeah, I think it's exactly right. And I just, like, I don't want people to think that this means that outsider candidates, you need the right outsider candidates, you know, and the conversation around this is so, like, stupid, basically, because the thing, people And I'm just, like, Fetterman was a prominent mayor for years and years and years and years. Lieutenant governor. Yeah, and then he was lieutenant governor. He was not, like, he dresses like an outsider. He has some, prior to his most recent ideological shift. But he was a progressive Democrat who endorsed Bernie Sanders and Barack Obama. And, I mean, he was campaign, he was a mayor in 2008 campaigning with Obama. And so this idea that it's just, no one wants to have the real conversation about this and, like, just that this is either, either this is all about Plattner or there's a specific type of candidate you want. And that can be on both sides of this, right? Like, everyone's got to reckon with, with what, you know, with the reality here. But this, I just, we, we need some, we need outsider candidates. They don't have to be Grant Plattner. They should be better than Grant Plattner. Our insider candidates should be better than Eric Swalwell. Yep. And Andrew Cuomo. Like, this. I mean, that was when it was, like, well, the establishment does a good job betting. Do we? Do we? Yes. Do we have proof of that? I just, I do think that, like, some of the emotion around this race both comes to the stakes of it where people, like, obviously, if we do not win Maine or a state like it, we will not hold the Senate. It will be devastating for generations. And the sense that, especially for people who really believed in him, it's a sense of betrayal, of grief, of, like, I thought I, I had. I had a politician I could get excited about, and he disappointed me and broke my heart. And so I, I have some amount of empathy for the, for the high feelings on all sides of this, but also the task now is to win and to make sure we don't make this mistake again. Pod Save America is brought to you by ActBlue. If you've been listening to the pod, you already know the stakes. ActBlue is the platform that's been powering Democratic campaigns for over two decades, giving candidates up and down the ballot the tools they need to win. To fundraise, organize, build websites, and win. 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They tell you how to keep them alive and healthy, which for a lot of us is the hard part. All the soil remained in place. You know, there was no big mess once they opened the box. So highly recommend it. Right now, they have great deals on summer planting essentials, and listeners get an additional 20% off your first order with the code CROOKED at checkout. That's 20% off at FastGrowingTrees.com with the code CROOKED. Terms and conditions apply. All right, let's pivot to your hometown of New York City, which has been ground zero. What do you make of the rise of Democratic Socialism, beginning first with Bhamdani and then the races that happened in the New York primary? Two incumbents were unseated, and two DSA candidates won races, one unseating a long-term incumbent, one winning an open seat. And then in Colorado, where we had a 30-year Democrat incumbent, Diana, to get unseated by a Democratic Socialist. What do you make of the rise of Democratic Socialism? Is this something that, is this about socialism? Is it about the fact that these are all districts that Kamala Harris won by more than 50 points? Like, just what's your take on what's happening here? I think voters are hungry for someone offering them a solution to their problems. Especially young people who cannot afford to buy a house, cannot afford childcare, are stuck with student loan debt, feel like they have no agency in their lives. They are looking to gambling or crypto or whatever it is, because at the very least, that feels like something you might have some control over. They are pissed, they are frustrated with the status quo, and DSA candidates are saying, here's a solution. They are offering an alternative. The establishment or the center or the old guard could also do the same. And I think it is telling to me that they are not putting forward, like, a vision for what else could be possible. You know, the fact that Mamdani was able to speak to the, not just the anxiety that people feel about their economic situation, but also, like, how they feel about what their life might hold. Like, it wasn't just afford to live. It was afford to live. It was afford to dream. It was afford to be able to imagine a better future for yourself. I think also DSA has built some organizing muscle in a lot of these places, which should not be underrated. And their candidates are selling something. That matters. If you look at the polling, there is just absolutely no question that socialism has grown in favor with Democratic voters over the last many years here. In the New York Times-Siena poll, every single demographic, every single age cohort of Democrats, the majority of Democrats have a favorable opinion of socialism. Interestingly enough, I find this to be so fascinating. The group with the highest approval rating of, or highest favorability rate of socialism is not 18- to 29-year-olds. It's 30- to 44-year-olds. That's millennials, baby. Yes. And, you know, I was telling this with Debra, I think, but it does make sense. If you are of an age where you came of age in the Great Recession, like, you really have been through the ringer in a way that is, you know, like, you're not going to be able to do anything. You're not going to be able to do anything. Because where capitalism has really fucked you, like, at every turn. And you're also at the age where you want to be buying a house, and you either can't afford to do it, or it's more expensive. You can. You have kids. Like, you're at it. But socialism has grown in favor, and capitalism has lost a lot of support across the board with everyone in recent years, also, understandably so. I think there is something to, like, it was easy to dismiss Mamdani as a generational talent. Just, like, that guy could have, he could have been a democratic socialist, he could have, whatever, he could have, he was so good. He's so good. But these other candidates are, they're good, but it's not generational talent that's winning. And so they are. people want big change and the left is more comfortable offering big change than the center. It doesn't mean there can't be a moderate version of something that addresses in a compelling, understandable, credible way, the cost of healthcare, housing, food, whatever else, like you can do that, just have been unwilling to do it. And there is just something in, there's a passion in how that is different with not every, but with a lot of leftist first center candidates that comes through that reads as authenticity and that you'll fight for them. Right. And it is like, I was struck. I remember there's a clip from the Diana to get me like heroes debate where Diana to get is making an argument about a public option, which in a different era, I mean, that was a, that was a position too liberal for the democratic Senate in the, in the Obama era, when Obama was trying to do it. And it's like a, you know, is she's sort of living in the world of legislatively possible. And Kairos makes this very passionate argument for Medicare, the morality behind Medicare for all and why it's the right thing to do. And it's just like the difference there. Part of it's be is generational. Part of it is inside or outside of a part of it also is that's an easier argument to make in the moment. Now we can talk about how hard it is to make maybe in a general election, but in the moment, there's just, they're offering something that is different. Now, do you, there, there is real concern among even well-meaning. I think people in the establishment, the people who are trying to win the house and the Senate, that this rise of Demer and I should say thus far Democrats have not nominated any, any DSA candidates in races that were, that aren't guaranteed democratic races. So it's not, we're not in a situation where a bunch of these candidates are knocking off more, you know, they're not knocking off. They're not running. They're not winning. They're not getting a nomination in a district where they would be very, very far to the left of the district that's happening in the bluest districts in the country, which is probably how the primary process is supposed to work. Uh, but you know, you do have an upcoming race with democratic socialists in Wisconsin running for governor. But I think a lot of Democrats have this fear that this could cost us the house and the Senate either in by DSA candidates winning primaries where they are to the left of the district or the, uh, just being it tarnishing the already tarnished brand of the Democrats. What's your take? Uh, the democratic brand, I can't get much worse. What are we, what are we doing here, guys? Um, you know, I do think that just to speak to that particular point where like, if a candidate can't comfortably say, you know what, I don't agree with my future colleague on X, Y, Z issue, but I look forward to working together to find a way to bring everyone affordable healthcare. Like you're not a good politician. You don't have to agree with all of your colleagues and everything. You, you can respectfully dismiss them and look forward to working together to the point of like, how are we thinking about the bigger picture here? You know, these candidates, they're, they're running and winning. They are getting people excited. Shouldn't we want people to be excited about this process? Like these DSA meetings like them or not. And like, I'm not a DSA member. I'm that's not where I sit ideologically, but I look at those meetings and there's young people showing up. They are volunteering. They are donating. They are participating in very boring conversations about process. Like that is what building a political party looks like. We should want that. And we should try to make the broader democratic party a place where that is possible. Now I will say run for something last year had nearly over the last 18 months, I've had about a hundred thousand people raise their hands to run for office. That is more than we had in the entirety of Trump's first term. The thing that we have heard different over this year and the last that we are, didn't hear in Trump 1.0 was frustration with the democratic party was people explicitly saying, I am running for office because they are not going to fight for me. They have not delivered for me. They do not see me. They do not care about me. So the DSA is giving those people a home. The democratic party, like, you know, big D could do the same. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's no question. You know, I, I'm not overly worried about, I mean, they called Barack Obama socialist and there were no, they called Joe Biden a socialist. Like, what are we doing here? We can elect no DSA candidates and they would call swing state democratic member candidates, socialists like that would, that would happen. I mean, you know, this from all the races you run is you would need candidates who are ideologically fit their district. These DSA candidates obviously fit their district that the voters said that that's what they declared. And, and, you know, and Bulls, that maybe, you know, and so far, like we, there have been some non DSA candidates who have won some primaries that some people believe were against, you know, you, I'm thinking about main two, Randy Viegas were like, they were the, the, the establishment had a view on who was the best candidate to win. The more progressive candidate one we'll find out in a few months who was right. And actually I take that back. We'll never find out who was right because it's always a counterfactual. We don't know what the other person would have won. The DSA thing is, I think it's become, it's like a little bit like the platinum thing where it's become a proxy for something else where it's, it's the easiest boogeyman for some of the center groups to say, to fight something else or something broader because Democrats are becoming more liberal. Like that is, that is true on almost every issue. It is true that the number of Democrats who describe themselves as very liberal has gone up significantly since Trump was elected. The number, how Democrats, how Democrats, how Democrats, how Democrats, how Democrats, how Democrats feel about a whole bunch of issues, particularly Israel, which we'll get to has changed dramatically. And so, but that's not like that, that has contributed to the rise of DSA, but it's not because of the rise of DSA. I also struggle a lot with like, what is the, who is the target for that argument that like DSA candidates shouldn't win these races? Like I'm a New York city voter. You're telling me that I should pick my mayor based on who might cause tarnish to the democratic party brand as a mythical voter in Wisconsin. Like what an insane thing to, to suppose. I, I really, I struggle with this because there, it assumes much like the left assumes that there is some secret cabal in charge who can, you know, control how elections are run or can control what candidates say. If anybody was in charge, do you think this is how it would go? Like it is voters making their voices heard on who they want to represent them. And we should be grateful that they are participating and that there are candidates that get them excited to show up. We should learn from that. We should be grateful that there are candidates that get them excited to show up. Iowa, Iowa, the Dakotas, you know, places in the South, we have to do that. But I think, and there was an, and I think more Democrats should generally be aware of the challenges, like just how, you know, how the Republican bias in the Senate map, the Republican bias in the electoral college and the reality of winning these districts. And you can't, you're like, what exists in your bubble is not what exists in out there in a lot of places we have to win. Having said that, I think one of the great mistakes, one of the great mistakes of the people making that argument is that they never offer, it's always to tear down a, it's, we're anti-DSA, we're anti-Zoran, like Zoran getting elected was like, this is the third way argument, Zoran getting elected to be like the end of the world, especially when the other option was Cuomo. Just, I would, I would just say there's a great irony between the most vehemently anti-platinum people being the most vehemently pro-Cuomo people, just as a point. I mean, just to, like, really hammer this home, if you were so afraid of DSA, there was a multitude of other options in that primary you could have galvanized around. Even right now, and I'm sure we'll talk about Michigan in a moment, like, if you are so afraid of Abdul El-Sayed, there was other options besides Haley Stevens, who they are currently having to spend $53 million to try and get over the finish line. It didn't have to be her. Mallory McMorrow, who you and I both know and supported and like a run for something alum, was right there. Now, I'm actually glad that she did not get the establishment support. I think that would have tarnished her campaign further. But putting aside for that for a moment, you have to put something forward. We talk, I mean, this is literally run for something. You have to have a vision, a solution. You have to talk to the problems that people are experiencing, because voters are actually not progressive or conservative or moderate or centrist. They have problems they want solved, and they want politicians who will do that so that they don't have to care anymore. The center could pose, could pose that. They could put forward candidates who do that. It is so telling and frustrating that instead they choose to punch left there. And also, they are punching left instead of possibly creating space for Republicans to come in, for other Democrats to come in. Like, they are doing the thing that drives me crazy, which is yelling at the enemy who can hear them as opposed to yelling at the enemy who can solve their problems. Pod Save America is brought to you by AG1. Summer is always a perfect time to unwind, to throw your schedule out the window and prioritize adventure. With AG1, that doesn't have to mean letting your health fall by the wayside. AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants. 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And if you have it with you, you know that like no matter how badly you're gonna eat on the road or maybe you want to eat badly on the road because you're going to texas or something you're just gonna barbecue the whole time bring bring ag1 with you i love it i had something this morning visit drinkag1.com slash crooked to get a free ag1 travel case with seven free ag1 travel packs in your welcome kit with your first ag1 subscription order while supplies last that's drinkag1.com slash crooked this is lavar harrington from two pros and a cup of joe let me tell you about zero that's xero zero is a financial management platform that loves giving small business owners the clarity to have the confidence in their numbers it puts accounting payments payroll and analytics all in one place so you always have one clear picture of your business with visual dashboards zero makes it easy to understand your cash flow you know exactly what's coming in and what's going out so you can make smarter decisions that can help grow your business zero's ai can even offer insights to help you make your best move it's powerful enough for an accountant and simple enough for you zero is the all-in-one to get business done learn more at zero.com this is matt rogers from lost culture east us with matt rogers and bowen yang this is bowen yang from lost culture east us with matt rogers and bowen okay we've been talking about qb mail for a minute now bow and wow the feedback we're getting i mean so many of y'all love this stuff you're stopping us in the street going i love qb and if you're thinking wait what is qb uh do you not have the internet it's the og japanese mayonnaise the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle once you know what you start seeing it everywhere people ask what makes it different from basic mayo well the answer egg yolks qb is made with egg yolks only giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything burgers fries sandwiches chicken noodles chefs use it restaurants use it people who really love food and flavor use it whatever you're eating qb hit so if you haven't tried qb yet find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about you'll understand qb the original japanese mayonnaise all right let's go to michigan um which is the race at a supplanted main in the is the center of the democratic party civil war we haven't talked about it a ton on this show in part because abdul worked for crooked did a hot podcast for crooked john john and tommy have supported his campaign i supported mallory mcmorrow it's the one race where we actually had actually supported candidate well it just had both had actually like donated money to primary candidates like that's not something that happened with platner um or anything like that just this is one where they knew abdul i know abdul i like abdul uh i know mallory i thought i thought i think mallory's great so i wanted to support mallory uh but so this race is now down mallory dropped out a couple weeks ago it's now down to haley stevens a moderate establishment-backed congresswoman um and abdul saeed is but it's become the center of the democratic party civil war there is just the amount of attention it's getting particularly online from the most act the most online democratic activists and pundits is huge it is really established it's it's everything right it's establishment versus outsider it's bernie versus establishment i guess or senate leadership it's anti-israel versus apac all of the above what do you have a take on this race i think it is a uh preview of the 2028 presidential primary that makes me want to throw my phone into the sea i know it's just i think it's it's interesting it's hard i don't envy michiganders who have to make this choice and i really hope that whoever wins this primary can build like build some bridges men some fences because i think it's getting people really really really angry in a way that will be hard to fix it reminds me a lot of the 2016 presidential primary where it just feels very similar and no matter who wins it's gonna they're gonna have to work very hard it's a long road back to you yes yes i i struggle with several things in this race which is my original beef in maine was the dscc endorsing janet mills like i was kind of interested in but main thing was like let's just let the people main decide like and i was very concerned i thought i've talked about this many times i just thought the mills decision was a sort of a political mistake i thought the decision to back hailey stevens over mallory and abdul i thought was also a crazy decision um i thought just you should stay out of it but where we are now is this has become a quote-unquote electability and the argument of the stevens people and stevens stevens campaign fairly directly is that abdul cannot win or is at least much less likely to win than hailey stevens what's your take on electability in this context we have no idea and i think the establishment quote-unquote has lost all credibility on that argument they thought they thought joe biden could win another term like they don't have the the proof points anymore to make a case that they know what voters want like can hailey stevens win i don't know it seems like they've had to spend a lot of money to get her through the democratic primary if she does eek this out she's outspending abdul what 10 to 1 it's it's not even and it's 90 99 of that money or not 90 some percent of that money is from not the hailey stevens i mean they actually went hailey stevens came in went up with their first ad today as we're recording this apac has spent uh 10 millions of dollars i think north of 30 million dollars at least uh on hailey stevens's behalf and you have some other super impacts it i the thing that there's many things that anger me about this um and like it's very possible i you could make a case that hailey stevens as a quote-unquote moderate and who will certainly appear more moderate if she wins a primary against abdul like that is one of the things when you come off looking quite moderate when you win a primary against a progressive because you're positioned in that moderate place maybe more electable i don't know that like you could make that case it's it's possible um the you could make the case that because abdul is to the left uh you know michigan is the quintessential swing state now trump's one of two of the last three elections it's a 50 50 state we assume it's probably three to four you know five maybe five points uh to the left this time if the generic ballot looks the way we think it does um that you know a candidate that far to the left you know if you look at political science research is less likely to win like that like you can make that case too but as your point is no one knows the thing that angers me about the abdul electability question is no one is willing to just say what they mean by it it is like is your argument that he's too far left in what positions is it he's too far left on is it his position on israel the polling would suggest that he's too far left on israel the polling would suggest that he's too far left on that right where the American people are there the is it Medicare for all now popular it is popular now if you look if you did like Medicare for all can become much less popular over time if it's advertising it's right like that that could potentially be vulnerable but no one wants to say that because the Democratic base is very understandably supports Medicare for all is it because he campaigned with Assange Piker maybe like do you want to make that argument like in the in a data for progress main may poll only 20 percent of Democratic primary voters knew who Assange Piker was but you could you could put it you can put it in ads you can put what Hassan said you don't have to know who he is is it because his name is Abdul El-Sayed is that what it is that what the reason is no one wants like that's the subtext of a lot of this and no one wants but no one will actually say that and that I would say I come at this from a very personal view because that was always the argument you know that when you say he hasn't been vetted he hasn't been vetted he hasn't been vetted that's what they said about Barack Hussein Obama too often right after they called him Barack Hussein Obama and like I don't know who's more electable I just wish people would just be honest about what they actually think about why he's less like more electable Haley Stevens did flip a Republican district in 2018 she performed exactly like a generic Democrat in 2024 I think I used the split ticket wins over replacement rating but I think she's like at point she's a like point three I think that I never but basically the same like it's not a proven winner and like it's to your point is we don't know and I I don't want to defend Haley Stevens here because I do not think she is the right candidate for this moment in any number of ways but I will say a lot of the criticism of her about being unelectable or like being a bad candidate yes so it's so sexist 100 so so sexist and like we should we should also say that because this is going to be a challenge especially as women keep running which they will like it is very hard in this modern information ecosystem to be able to do that because it's going to be a challenge especially as women keep running which they will like it is very hard in this modern information ecosystem for women to run because you have to be telegenic you have to speak a certain way you have to sound a certain way where do you perform your authenticity as a woman like if she did some of the videos or even if Mallory had done some of the videos that Abdul has done they would have been mocked endlessly it never would have been on the table so she is not the right candidate for this moment I think for any number of reasons but the criticism of her has been deeply sexist there's this video that's been circulating that has been got that has gotten I think 10 million views of her and she's at an organizing rally and she is in a very emphatic Michigan accent is talking about how she's going to fight for Michigan that like that is like that's become like that's become a thing but my guess is most people see that and have no reaction to it you know it's a really online thing and you know the the obviously i have biases in support of mallory but mallory made some of those videos that uh there's are not dissimilar to the ones that abdul's made and got torn to smithereens yeah on the internet for sure like whether it had actual motor would it trip but i have no idea but it's just absolutely it's like that's why this one is so complicated and it's and then sitting over top of it is israel and gaza where abdul has been incredibly outspoken has opposed aid to israel is called a genocide hayley stevens has um you know been a big has been supported by apac she when she won her primary in 2022 she was a she got a ton of funding from apac apac as i said spent all this money in here there is how do you think about apac role in this and the role israel's playing let's start with michigan now i'm gonna expand it out to everything else when this when this campaign is all said and done it seems like 80 of the funding at least of her campaign at least while it's on air funding tv ads is going to be paid for by one specific interest group i don't know that i've ever seen that before i've seen super packs put a lot of money in races like in the iowa primary josh turek got a whole bunch of money from vote vets that money really seemed to have come from the d.a.a. from the senate majority super pack world and it's like a mix of different different but here you have one specific group with a specific policy agenda spending this much money on a candidate have you ever seen anything like this before it seems concerning it the only thing that maybe comes close is the way that ai was spending money in the new york congressional races yeah but even that's alex boris yeah yeah but even that was like not to the same extent and i saw some really interesting polling in particular about the michigan democratic primary voters apac has a negative 46 favorability rating 78 of michigan democratic primary voters said they'd be less likely to vote for a senate candidate backed by apac 86 they'd be less likely to vote for a candidate who supports continued funding for israel's war in gaza this is toxic for them i think it's telling that most of their ads do not talk about israel they don't never never mentioned it's yeah this is a both a question of policy but it's also a question of morals i think we have seen now that the way that candidates engage on what's happening in gaza has become a moral litmus test of do you have the the sense of conscience to call what's happening a genocide and to want to push policy away from enabling it we just saw the vote earlier this week where house democrats a record number of them including a number of sorts like i did not expect nancy pelosi nancy pelosi katherine clark the whip yes yeah like things are changing and they are good because that is where voters are in crisis of conscience and they know that they want their leaders to push back i also think that the way that apac is spending in this speaks to the larger very negative feelings people have about the role of money in politics and it has become the ultimate boogeyman for you know someone is trying to buy the election and drown out your voice not great back on michigan for a second one question i have is is apac going to support hayley stevenson the general against mike rogers because right now she is she has raised she has struggled to raise money you know you have james talarico raising you know record numbers you have john ossoff raising record numbers abdul raised i think more than four million dollars this last quarter you get there are democratic candidates are raising lots of money hayley stevens has struggled to raise grassroots money which really matters because big dollar democratic donations are down in this so there's you would you have more people willing to give five ten fifty hundred bucks in fear of the government people willing to write seven thousand dollar per couple maxed out checks and so if you can't raise grassroots money and apac is not going maybe they will be there but it's i just is she better than mike rogers for them i don't know i don't know but that like that's a question and like obviously if she's nominated the senate super PACs can supplement but that's money's coming out of somewhere else that's money that's not going to iowa or alaska or texas or somewhere else i think it's a really good question and i also think apac has shown not the smartest of strategies no like they've elected a lot of anti-israel democrats yeah and like even if you think beyond this they have not created space for a political home for people who maybe aren't as far left as where dsa is but also aren't where apac is in a way that like they're not thinking beyond the next three months and i think it is really dangerous for for the future of of our democracy in many ways because of how much money they're able to spend and how how threatening it has become the the vote of the house it is i don't know many people may not have been tracking this over the years but the idea that 100 democrats would vote the idea that 10 democrats would vote against aid to israel the idea that nancy pelosi and the member of the house leadership would vote against aid to israel is would have been impossible to imagine impossible you maybe get one thomas massey and what the democratic equivalent thomas massey or iran paul like the idea that people would do this in mass is impossible to imagine it does speak and this is the downside of uh apac that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and i think that's what i think about it and the israeli government's allegiance sort of alliance with republicans in most cases is if democrats take the majority how would a speaker jim jeffries even be able to get like it seems like that's the end of the ball game like i don't know how he could even bring that bill forward i i do not envy his job yes it does not seem fun i do think like one of the things that the broader activist movement needs to really think about is like how do you welcome these newcomers in how do you you know better live your life and i think that's what i think about it is like how do you welcome these newcomers in how do you you know better live your life and how do you you know better late to the party than not coming to this party at all when it comes to this issue like the point of persuasion is to get people to agree with you and i do think there is still some stickiness around like well you didn't say genocide early enough you didn't you know you didn't like call it out two years ago it's like if i do it now that's that is better than never and that is the point of this work and so i i do want to like just plant that seed of as we keep growing this coalition like how do we make sure it feels like one that can continue in a way that is welcoming the way this issue is going to hang of the 2028 democratic primary and the amount of people who are going to come maybe lately to be against funding or to call it a genocide or all those things is going it's just i just mentioned this to favre last week or two weeks ago that we were one year away from the pro what's likely the first democratic primary debate yep i want to die it's like so horrifying no lie down and never get up i know i know we're going to get through this and i'm going to get through this and i'm going to get through this hey dan taberski here i'm a podcast host a journalist and now with my newest project the author of my own manifesto well it's a manifesto about manifestos my search for inspiration in a world that feels more infuriating more out of its freaking mind with each passing hour manifestos are a call to action an artful scream they capture our anger and they try to do something with it this is my attempt to take the manifesto back from mass shooters and nihilists and return it to its rightful place with the warriors the visionaries the regular folks with just the right amount of crazy i compare notes with radicals secessionists internet trolls out for a laugh and punk singers screaming their guts out all trying to turn their anger into the world they want to see listen to manifesto wherever you get your podcasts audible subscribers can binge all episodes of manifesto early and ad free right join audible in the audible app or by subscribing on apple podcasts this is levar errington from two pros and a cup of joe let me tell you about xero that's x-e-r-o xero is a financial management platform that loves giving small business owners the clarity to have the confidence in their numbers it puts accounting payments payroll and analytics all in one place so you always have one clear picture of your business with visual dashboards xero makes it easy to understand your cash flow you know exactly what's coming in and what's going out so you can make smarter decisions that can help grow your business xero's ai can even offer insights to help you make your best move it's powerful enough for an accountant and simple enough for you xero is the all-in-one to get business done learn more at xero.com this is matt rogers from las culturistas with matt rogers and bowen yang this is bowen yang from las culturistas with matt rogers and bowen yang okay we've been talking about qb mail for a minute now beau and wow the feedback we're getting i mean so many of y'all love this stuff you're stopping us in the street going i love qb and if you're thinking wait what is qb uh do you not have the internet it's the og japanese mayonnaise the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle once you know it you start seeing it everywhere people ask what makes it different from basic mayo well the answer egg yolks up is made with egg yolks only giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything burgers fries sandwiches chicken noodles chefs use it restaurants use it people who really love food and flavor use it whatever you're eating qb hit so if you haven't tried qb yet find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about you'll understand qb the original japanese mayonnaise i want to talk about run for something Because Run for Something, which you started after Trump won in 2016, it is always the example I use of how really smart, committed people can make a real change without ever asking anyone for permission to do so. You've had a tremendous impact over the last – I mean, you've never been doing this for a long time. We are year eight? Nine and a half. It'll be 10 years in January. So you started an organization that got thousands of people to run. I started a podcast. Teach for the run, I guess, because we're in year nine of Positive America now. You hinted at this earlier, but I want to put a finer point on it. After Trump won this time, there were – much digital ink was spilled around the idea that the resistance was dead. And there was some anecdotal evidence for that. There was no Women's March. There was – You saw – no one had protests as the new brunch signs out. There was less protesting. No one rushed to the airports when the next version of the Muslim ban was signed. But Run for Something was a bit different. You guys had a different experience after Trump won. Talk to me a little bit about the enthusiasm you've seen. So right after Trump won, we started seeing thousands of people raise their hands to run for office. 18 months later, it's over 100,000 people who signed up to run for office since then. More than we had in the – since 2024. More than we had in the entirety of Trump's first term, as I said earlier. Last year, we had, I think, a 60% win rate on Election Day. We had a night where we elected both a DSA-affiliated candidate to the Atlanta City Council and a former Republican who left the party after January 6th to a rural county commission in Pennsylvania. We have built the tent that is tight on values and flexible on policy and has now elected more than just about 1,700 young people across 49 states, plus some of them in Pennsylvania. including many that are now running for higher office, like James Tallarico, like Mallory McBorrow, but also like Francesca Hong in Wisconsin, like Sarah McBride in Delaware, and so many others who are, I think, the future of the Democratic Party. And that's not ideologically, like, pure, however you want to define it. It is people who love their communities, who want to solve problems, who want to speak to their neighbors, and who are willing to do so in a way that is authentic and genuine and connected and fun, and it makes me so hopeful and excited at a moment where, like, most of the Democratic Party does not. But I really do believe, like, we are on the brink of a tipping point where the party is going to be more run-for-something alum than not. It is going to be more leaders who look like our folks than not. And that's a good thing, I think. For sure. What's encouraging about it is our party is a gerontocracy. It is, you know, and there are so many reasons for this. You know, it is, you know, we went, you know, Democrats often pick the next person in line, and then Obama skipped the line, and then we went back to the back of the line, and then we went further back of the line with Hillary and Biden, and then we also had the 2010 elections, which gutted, like, a big chunk of the party because we lost so many seats in the post, in the redistrict day. And then, first in 2010, in that election, and then in so many of our state legislative, state legislators were redistricted out in that redistricting, and then we lost again, and we just, like, we lost a lot of the middle. And so you guys have helped bring up the, like, we missed the middle generation, and now we have a younger generation coming up. Are there some particular candidates this cycle that you're excited about that people should know about? Oh, there's so many. Caitlin Dre is running for Iowa State Senate. She won a special election in 2025. She broke the Iowa Republican supermajority. She flipped a seat Trump had carried by 10 points. She is now defending that seat this November. So excited about her. Julia Salinas, who's running for Texas State House. This is, like, probably the genuine toss-up in the Texas House District. He's the grandson of migrant farm workers. He came from behind in a three-way March primary and then won the May runoff by 11 points against a more establishment-backed candidate. This is in the Rio Grande Valley. It's in a seat that Trump carried by just, I think, like, a point and a half in 2024. So exciting. Chris Thomas. In Pennsylvania State Senate. He is a former public school teacher. He's a volunteer firefighter. He's up against a first-term Republican senator. We're trying to flip that chamber there. So he is phenomenal. Michael Ferguson, who's running for Florida State House in, like, Broward County. He's an active-duty Air Force judge advocate. He served as one of the youngest special trial counsels in Air Force history. He's an attorney. This is the only legislative district in Broward County, which is very Democratic. that is still held by Republicans. So it is a top target to pick up in the Florida State House. You know, I could go on and on and on. We have hundreds of candidates up this year. The value of 100,000, as you said. It's going to be good, guys. It's going to be good. So the party, we did a lot of thinking after Trump won in 2016. One of the things that sort of everyone came, you know, to the too-late conclusion was that the Democrats did not pay enough attention to down-ballot races. I do really think that that focus shifted in the first Trump era. So there's you guys. There was sister district that, you know, swing left, indivisible. Everyone is, like, really, you know, working hard to win on these races. Lots of focus on Secretary of State's and governor's races in the wake of January 6th and trying to protect election integrity. Do you feel like there is the party apparatus, the donor world, the activist world, the people with platforms have maintained that focus in Trump 2.0 or have we lost a little bit because we're sort of obsessed with Trump again? We have lost a little bit. I would say, in particular, the donor world. And, like, I will be very honest, like, everyone who's not running for House or Senate this year that can't, like, if you're not a House or Senate candidate, you are probably struggling. Like, Run for Something, we're doing okay, but we have had to be really careful stewards of our resources. And, like, just to put a really fine point on this, you know, Run for Something's budget is $8 million a year, just about. The Republican counterpart to Run for Something is called the Leadership Institute. It has been around for 30 years. 30 some odd years. It has a $50 million a year annual budget. I think I could have candidate recruitment offices in every state and be doing year-round recruitment. Like, I cannot even imagine what I would do with $50 million a year. It is the kind of abundance mindset around we can do it all that the Democratic Party just does not seem to operate from. And is that a scarcity of people want to write those checks or are those just checks going to the wrong place? A little bit of call of A, a little bit of call of B. So some of it is, like, we don't have enough rich people or, you know, our grassroots donors are very excited about some of the Senate races and not as excited about some of the infrastructure because it's not as flashy and not as exciting. And really big checks still go to places that run TV ads or, you know, this right now, it's like creator stuff. And that's not to say that's not important, but that stuff ceases to exist after Election Day. Run for Something and so many of other partners on the ground who are doing this real locally driven work that has, like, candidate recruitment for 2026 happened in 2025. The recruitment that we are doing now for, say, the Louisiana and Mississippi state legislative races, which are going to be critical because of how they've redistricted these states and blowing up the Voting Rights Act. That recruitment happens now. So if you are not funding things year round and sustaining this work with multi-year giving, multi-month giving, it is impossible to do in the way that is the most effective and efficient. You know, it's just so fascinating because I spent a lot of time over the last, nine years now, I guess, talking to donors about, like, my big thing has always been investing in media infrastructure, right? That we need to do medium and long-term investments in content creation, media, pro-democracy media. You know, I have my newsletter, all these things. But just beyond our stuff, just generally, Republicans have been investing in stuff where, like, we don't. And you're talking to very smart people who have made a lot of money in their life, making good investments. And it's just, I've never been able to figure out why, when you talk to them about investments that pay out over time, is less appealing than the short-term, one-time use of money on largely television ads. Like, think about how much money was spent. Like, you want your $50 million? Your $50 million could be found in two weeks of Super PAC ads. Yep. 100%. Yeah. If I think about it too much, I won't get out of bed in the morning. I'm saying, I know, I want you to be able to continue to get out of bed. You have a very important job and you have children, so I think it's important that you get out of bed. But I want anyone listening who has those sort of resources to think about, even if you could get, let's say you could double from 8 to 16, or get to half of that 50. It's just one, truly one week of television ads in Texas. Is my entire budget. Is your entire budget, right? And, you know, to get to the, to the beginning of the conversation we talked about, like candidate recruitment is stage zero of winning an election. If you want better TV ads, if you want the megaphone that we're building around media and creators to have something good to amplify, like it starts with getting really good people to run in as many places as possible. We work in all 50 states. We also have a long-term vision for what we think the battlegrounds could be and might be in 2030 and 2032. We're doing intensive recruitment in these places. We're providing candidates with the skills and tools they need to work in these places. to win their races, like, why don't I have $50 million? I don't know. Ask the billionaires. I do know that the work is working, that there's such demand for our work and that I am so proud of what we have built. And I think it's going to keep paying off because the nice thing about candidate recruitment in particular is when one person wins that like against the odds race and when one person makes history, dozens and dozens or hundreds or thousands more like them say, you know what, maybe I can do this too. That is very hopeful place to end this. But before I let you go, just in case we have a billionaire or someone who maybe works for one of these AI companies going public who's about to be a billionaire and they would like to help you get to your well-deserved $50 million budget, where can they give you money? Runforsomething.net. You can look us up. You can also find any of our other entities. And I should say, if any of your listeners want to run for office, it is probably too late for 2026. It is definitely not too early for 2027 or 2028. You can go to runforwhat.net. You can look up where you might want to run. Amanda Lippman, always great to talk to you. I always leave these conversations smarter and a little bit more optimistic. So this is great. Thanks for having me, Dan. Thanks to Amanda Lippman for coming on. John, John, and Tommy will be back in your feed on Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari with Ree Churlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hethcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pelleviv, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. 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