The Death of Social Media and the Rise of Interest Media

The rise of analog and the rise of intent. Oh my god, the rise of AI, analog and intent. Along with AI, hope this is it. This is it. Oh my god, I'm so glad you captured that moment. The moment I thought of old school AI. That's exactly it. Holy shit, that's exactly it. This is the GaryVee audio experience. (indistinct chatter) Number one organic views achieved. The most merit-based truth right now in marketing is views achieved on social media because you are unable to get them if the content is not relevant. You know, for example, in this article, if you wanna show two back-to-back posts of my TikTok, I know right now two weeks ago there's a post where it got 1.2 million views. And the one prior after about four or five 10,000,000. Right, that is a level of merit on the credit. Once you then get those views, if you put media behind it, so now this did well, you put media behind it, and you track how many sales you got on.com or app downloads, something tangible, performance oriented. Phone call, anything measurable business transaction. Sailon.com, sign up for a form, quiz fully taken, show up to an event, anything tangible. So for me, it's measure the creative in social, measure the overall marketing that's creative in the media on a business result. And then the last thing that trips people up is, how to measure brand, but real quick, just so you understand, a GRP is measuring how many people saw it and that is just not true. The answer. (chattering) No, it hit the, when we hit the little thing, start them up. It was working until I hit the little side. We actually are in the yard. Leave it there. It'll pick it up. I know that mug groupier for us was a big, big switch. I'm trying to think of who's really gone there. We're just going into the era where people really going there. I would say mug groupier, but they weren't really running television if I'm being fair. It's really worked in the earliest era of people really making that switch. See a suite or a CFP, like water some of the, I'm sure you get the hesitations all the time. Like, where do you use the, just driving to see if there are any smaller things that are on the plans about that switch from the vanilla. Well, so this is how it actually works. An organization in the Fortune 500 land has a ROI measuring schema, having measure return on investment. Most of that has been sold in by other agencies. That's it? - Bigger. - Those reports are often tied into the media spend. The media spend often, the reporting is justifying television and banner ads and things that agencies make money on. Got it? So, do CMOs kind of just live in that world? Where's a CFO is struggling with like, why do our reports look good, but our business is soft? And same with the CEO. So, in fact, CFOs tend to be the place where we get the most traction. Because I ask them a very simple business question, which is why do the reports look good? Why does the ROI look good, but the business results are not there? Again, everything is broken because they're trying to measure brand. I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. They'll make my mom super happy. The two things that are killing modern Fortune 500 companies, number one, campaign mindset. I'll break that down. We will sit in a board, meet you in train. We'll sit in a room and we will come up with the idea for a lot of calone coffee. Now, we will think it can be like hotter than hot, or starting your day fresh, or the pick me up when you need it. You know, it's not hard. I just did it. I'm like, where are you going to call people in? But we think we're gonna get sick. In a room. And then we're gonna bet the farm on it on billboards, on television, on print. And we're gonna push that, right? - I was absolutely interested. Looks like you and Puffett were 7-08 and 7-8. Friends were really smart. - Great. - You just want to know what? - Then? - That was kind of free, French, Asian, and Asian. - Decline that the trends were moving fast. And I'd be on a train like this in '07. And I'm 50. So I was the perfect age because I was on a train where every single person here had a newspaper. Right now, a happy person. - Just put the magazine on the back. - Yeah. And I could just see, and once this came out, I knew it was game over. It was just a matter of time. - Well, I've got you. - So. - Was it, thank you some iPhones, because of the way they were put in there even? - It was Blackberry even. It was Blackberry and laptop even. - That's what you're talking about. - But, fucking iPhone was the deck below. I knew it. The two great mistakes of a Fortune 500 company made me a campaign mindset. This concept that humans are just gonna sit around and guess it right, made sense when there wasn't other options, AI, the internet, social media, fine. Crazy. Number two is fake reports. You know, just reports that, and really fake reports that try to measure brand. The effort in measuring brand, eating up the oxygen of sales and commonsense business. There's a succession with Coca-Cola and BMW and United Airlines to measure brand. Like if we do this, what's the long term effects on our business? The reality is you can't measure it. It's like love and we spend all this money on it and it becomes the excuse and justify our bad short term work. We're not getting sales, but look, it measured well on brand. They report crazy concepts to try to do. The most important thing, I'm the number one fan of brand. I've built brand for myself, for my companies. Those two, so I wanna flesh that out. 'Cause a vanilla campaign, have some return on investment, of course. I'll give you an example. Something called my attention just last night. I was watching the actors awards. The sag awards on Netflix. They had commercials. And you know, you never have commercials on Netflix and you're not used to changing the channel on Netflix or even looking at your phone. And so when the commercials came up, I was like, well, and I such an advert guard are doing something. Here's the problem, this is real life. Did you watch it last night? Trent, did you watch the actors awards last night? Cool. Jennifer Gardner's in a commercial. I have no idea what the brand is. There you go. Real life, live detective test right now. I know Jennifer Gardner was there. That's what I can recall it. I got one, let's give love any other way. I remember Marshall's had a commercial. Marshall's the store. There you go. So I remembered. Yeah. Last night. Didn't compel me to go to Marshall's. No. Didn't compel somebody else probably. Was it worth how much they spent? Definitely. Now if I saw Instagram push right now, as I was just in my phone. And it was a ad for JetSlowly ad Marshall's. Ad relevance would have worked out. Updating the store? Yeah, that was more experiential. Yes, production. Yeah, yeah, the world goes more digital. More AI. You'll see more and more executions of analog. We're going to write an article called the Barbell. Yeah. Especially. Yeah, great. It's going to be extremely digital and extreme analog. And I think all this analog stuff will pop up. Should we talk about capital war? Just a couple of hours. What are the rates? Right there. Yeah, they're an extreme store land. But I'll give you an example. Let me give you an example. What's given? New balance. Right? Or let's use Nike. What if Nike started running clubs everywhere? Just everywhere. Like you woke up tomorrow and heard, there's just ads running in social. What do you think? Beautiful hope, so. Enjoy your time here. the four stills running club sponsored by Nike. You look kind of want to start running where you do run and you show up, but there's cameras there. Trains there at scale, 500 trains. You know, and it's community and you met people there and Nike's giving you free gear. I think again, I said it at the keynote this last week. You'll see it. I believe in 2035 that the world will be more 2075 and 1975. And I think there's, I just see it. And so there is Nike's execution. Now let's use them bubbly, the sparkling water. Should bubbly stand up, you know, cafes where they serve bubbly? I believe so. And I believe they should fill it. Because people understand that experientials are also a production day to feed the social, to be the 5% to 10% of content that is not AI generated. We are going to put real life content on a pedestal because it's going to be rare. Sporting about like a broad racial. Sporting about, and by the way, brands will start sporting events, right? When the tennis racket pick up on, they should be putting on tournaments. They should be like, a lot of this is going to get into analog. Let me go another analog place, brands are going to go. This is less experiential as a production day. What about hand-written notes? Like, what if Gap started running literally writing 3000 hand-written notes a day for everybody who bought something out of Gap store? What would that mean? A lot of people like, what is that? What it means? This is an example of genres that I think are going to be included. Everyone's like, oh my god, AI is taking jobs. I'm like, yes, heat day gets paid to write eight hour a day. How many hand-written notes do you think truly hand-written? Your hands, like you have to get your game up and you work out. But four sentences, three sentences with some data on the screen probably from AI. How many of you think you can write in a day? [BLANK_AUDIO] >> Faffo league. >> Okay. >> Clean-ish. [BLANK_AUDIO] >> Right, sounds good to me. Like let's just use 200. You know if you do 200, you're doing a thousand a week. You're doing a thousand a week. You're doing 45,000 a year, right? Is it worth $2 a letter to gather. To gather on ROI, to pay someone 90,000 to do for, I think the answer's gonna be yes. And there's some math in there that we need to read down. I want you to say this here, but that's kind of the stuff I think a lot about. You know, like there's a soccer stadium right there, right? Like there's a parking lot in New Jersey right now, Monday morning in the winter. If you're a Reebok, could you be doing like a little pickup game for people and filming it? >> Do the answers yes? >> Like in this area, Harrison, emergency, Jersey town, like if you ran Facebook ads and said come and play this pickup game for your health and get some free swag, people would come. It would lead to a thing. I say this all time, when it goes back to the Ricky Henderson effect. When somebody, when I take a selfie with someone and talk to them for a minute, that changes our relationship with them forever. And I think people have done that. Being this people will stop and think, you know, and then, but I think plans now, the chance to scale the unskilled level. And I think we're going into the thank you economy. In fact, I would argue that we should write, we should write some articles for short on the thing about thank you economy in 2026. You'll appreciate this investing in old world intent. How it shows up whether it's stationary, whether it's standing here and just shaking everyone's hand and giving them a jolly rancher because you're jolly rancher. I think the rise, the rise of analog, the rise of analog and the rise of intent. Along with AI, this is it. I'm so glad you captured that moment, moment I thought of old school AI. That's exactly it. When people understand it's the two extremes and people can love it. And just people are so romantic about old school shit. If you're 1-800-4 hours, what about standing in public places and getting roses to win a film and just the impact, like filming your AI, your OGA, for AI content. It's gonna be so cool. So, you're by the side, we're having a part battle. Stride. Yes. Go all in on that. The first is the Netherlands, the Netherlands, the Netherlands. The strategy is extreme is among both at the same time, while recognizing every organization will have its own cadence. Some organizations are all in an experiential. Others have never done one. Some companies have started to integrate AI into the organization, others are demonizing it. But the way I think about things is if you know that the end of the four years is this, why aren't you running as hard as you can to get to the point? I think it seems like it's okay for a secure digital media pass, but you won't have one store. It's just so heavily immersed and it's nice and versatile. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm fine with a good crawl run, you know, crawl walk and run. I'm not overly romantic. What I am is a lot of people use the, this is a whole article itself, using the excuse of we need to crawl walk and run to not crawl. I mean, I want to title that. Like, using the excuse of crawl walk and run to not crawl at all, because you're scared to ever getting to running versus what you're doing over here, which is jumping. You're doing something that you like, and you're using the excuse of crawl walk run when you know you have to run instead of jump. And then you use that excuse to never even start crawling is what I see from Fortune 500. Because the company is being judged on how many times, because you're exactly getting bonus on how many times you're jumped. So why the fuck are you going to start a crawl walk run when you're personal mortgage is being paid on the future of 100 times? Meanwhile, the jump is destroying your business. That's corporate America, some up in a good analogy. There you go. Use it. Click that whole video, write it out, put a link in. Like, that's truth. The middle in this example that I'm saying in marketing for years is print ads, billboards, radio, digital binarads, email marketing, like that email marketing per se, I kind of like it. But just like back to social, doing social like this. Like, this is going to get thrown to the middle. Right now, this is an edge case of good strategy, but it's going to get thrown to the middle. Because we can type, Gary and Matt sitting on a, in the world's changing. I think that email marketing is interesting too. I think this is another day, but it's like what, 30 years old you had your list for once. I guess the compact has already happened, but before we were really excited about it. I'm always bullish mediums. Meaning, I'm obese bullish audio. I'm always bullish written word. I'm always bullish video. How it gets executed is like what's the context? Right? Again, what are you doing here? Clearly, I believe it's working. But the substag late in Twitter X. What's going on with that? Right? We knew that writing has a price. And I'm committing time to it. We are right now in writing mode for also video. This is a different image for a train that could be used as a thumbnail. It's a clip, you know, the go-alm app. [inaudible] I don't think anybody can live something. I don't think it's here yet. I don't think a company has 70%. Let me tell you what a good bar now. 70% of their money tied up in AI creative or social first/AI creative and experiential at scale. It's just not there yet. We're not there yet. 70%. I mean, there's people that have 7%. There's people have 6% or 7% of their marketing budget but 70% is too. We don't have that yet. That's not happening. I mean, I don't see the brands these in a bit of a film. That's not a type of, it's my self-honoured stuff. Is that just what they just are all about? Yeah, I mean, think about how many things have become less relevant. A Europe the age where crispy cream was cool. Remember? Is it as cool now? You know? Like, what was everybody wearing when you were in high school? You know? Like, you know? I, when I was in high school, everybody had a starter jacket. Not everybody in high school has a starter jacket. You know what I mean? Like, like, I mean, brands go in and out all the time. Popeyes, Popeyes, spicy chicken sandwich was rent out five years ago. Not right now as much. Like, you know, things have been flowing all the time. I mean, yeah, Nike, I mean, Nike's in a really shitty spot. Like, literally eight years ago, everyone was wearing Nike's. Now there's a million things. So, yeah, top idea. I'd be happy if I could have that. Yeah, Nike's at the top of my list, and the big company that I think is fully lost that's why running an old playbook. No, no, I mean, well, that's my whole point of everything. One subrand always a brand. I mean, by the way, that's an article. That's another cutout that's making no, no. This is my main thesis. This is why I love marketing. Like, this is my whole theory with crocs. By the way, look what I'm wearing. Rebox. Nobody wore a pair of fucking rebox for ten meters. Nobody wore a pair of rebox from 2005 to 2015. Nobody. It literally people wearing rebox from 2005 to 2015, more to be ironic. Peak Nike. Look at crocs. Red hot. Crocs should be the case study for once a brand always brand. Dead hot dead. You know, hot. The way it really went was hot. It's dead. It got hot again three, four years ago. Kind of flying again. North Face. North Face. Exactly. I mean, there's a million examples. Like, that's exactly right. Champion. Champion is red hot. Then ice cold. Then you can cool again, you know. I'm waiting for juicy cator to come back. It's good. It's good. I'm not going to. I'm going to. What can this short kind of company feel like? Is it most of your teammates who are on the positive side? Like, should have been ridiculous to run in stores, but just because they're like kind of an app. What do they mean inside of it? Well, I don't think. I don't think of department stores that way. I think that more is brands. That need to go. I think you're thinking about it linear. Department source because they already have the physical location. Notice what I did. I just have filly cream cheese. I'm saying, you know, I'm saying things that you don't think about. Need to have physical locations. Or be physical things. Or create festivals. Right? What can those headsets at cream cacciella? Do you think that would have worked out? It is well-expected. No, I'm saying cacciella. Cacciella is not old. It's as hot as it is magic, but we're going to have what that would have meant to their brand. Like, what if Hershey's candy company had the best summer carnivals around the country? What if 25 summer carnivals popped up for a month of August outside of the suburbs of Miami? Dallas, New York? Here in Jersey. And that was owned by Hershey's. So it's all in essence. It's Hershey's park. It has pop-ups. It has summer carnivals. But everything's being filled. Do you imagine how powerful that is? [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I believe it. I think it's right. You know who's another brand to look at? Shark Ninja. While everybody has gone digital, they've opened up super stores. Right? Can't. Super stores. So like super retail locations. It's just one small way to think about it. I don't. It's not that everybody needs a store. But everybody needs a physical and a long execution. I just gave you Hershey's and summer carnivals. I just gave you Bose. What if Bose built Hachela? Right? Like to me, that's what we need to think about. You know, what if Gatorade had started the pickle mall league? That's another one. What if Gatorade started the pickle mall league? I think brands have to go into deeper territory. What if? What if? Well, look at Planet Fitness. Right? Like we just drove by Planet Fitness. Like, you know, what happens if Underwater? Startling. What if they actually do? I think you're going to see people blend into animal. More and more. What if Rolex owned this golf course? Right? Now this is a Bougie Golf course, but it's Rolex. You're going to start seeing what if high-end brands own private clubs like LiveBush Club. You know? Yeah, I mean, so when I'm just kind of going that way with the 40 or 50K here, it's an membership. So it's more of a club that's left just a place to work out. Yeah? Yeah. So if you see someone who's already getting your area, I'm convinced. Where do I start? I think it's crawl, run, walk, right? So it's a pop-up. You know, I don't feel like green cheese if they agree with me. They do a pop-up, big old execution, maybe in the hand that they rent the place for two months. And they do in July and August and they see what it feels like. Or they do it for like a week during, you know, again, a music festival or something that goes for five days. You know, or you start doing it for these four day weekends. That's super bowl NBA All-Star weekend. You know, ultra music festival. You start doing it around these four or five day events. Maybe in a one day event. Maybe they do it as a one day pop-up at the Kentucky Derby, right? And you just get a feel of like, is there something there or there? It's a lot easier to do a pop-up for a weekend than it is to build a host or a four. But if you get three to four events and you feel like there's something there, I think you start really looking at that. This is a very emotional place for me. This is seven minutes from where I grew up. This was the Metro Park. This is the train station that I went to every weekend coming from Boston to come here. My dad would pick me up on Fridays nights and I would drive home and then I would work Saturday. And then I'd go back to school on Sunday. Colleague. This is it? No, I would go to school up in Boston. I would take the regular non-excelics. We didn't have money like that. Here my dad would pick me up in Metro Park. I grew up though seven, ten minutes from here. Ten minutes from here. This is literally within ten minutes where I grew up. So like Lamon, we picked her up all the time. She used to come from Queens. Was it Rego? Yes. Rego Park. It was that home. That's Rego Park for us. So it was right there. (inaudible) (inaudible) (inaudible) (inaudible) (inaudible) Where? (inaudible) I lived in Edison from '82 to '89. I moved to Hunterton County, New Jersey. One of my parents lived now from '90 to '94. Then I went to college '94 to '98. I would stay in '108. You know, there were summers I worked in a store that I came to. Then in '98, I moved into my apartment in '99, a couple months into it. That was in Springfield. I was there from '99 to 2003. I moved to Manhattan in 2004. (inaudible) It was part of the location of the store. I thought I saw you talking to us. It was a little bit more than half of what there were short hills. And then also the working class. It wasn't a strategy. My dad just had an opportunity by a store. It just worked out that way. His first store was in Clark, which we, not too far from here. That was very blue collar. Springfield. was half blue color, half white color. I respect it. It's a lot of them for another brand side. And both on the brand side and on the Yacht floor, creator side, the value is to put out volume creative and see what works. Now, that's not spray and pray, it's not road against you. You see how we do it? We put time and effort into our content. But we don't notice how on that edit, I don't think that edit that just got posted is as tight and as sharp as the example one that I saw. I don't think it was done as well. But I didn't put feedback in there and say, hey, change it. I actually want to see how it does. And then do it again. And then maybe the four-time employee, hey, let's go back to that first one. Let's do it exactly like that. Do that for me, times. I value the organic reach inside more than my subjective opinion. I value the organic views achieved data and the comments for qualitative, not just quantitative data, more than my subjective intuitive. And this is where everyone's stuck. Contrapreneurs and creators are insecure about not getting a lot of views. Brands think still like television and this is their only chance to do it. Got it? That's it. They both do the same thing, they do it for different reasons. And the creator doesn't want 17 views to show up publicly. Brand thinks they only have one chance, they still think it's television. Simple, fascinating, that sound. Like, you're still subjective. You're subjective and dominating. Or you're not, you can't use range because the CEO doesn't want us to use that. Right, or our main color is this red. So let's not use this other red. This verse is subjectively. Are we getting into that comment section keeping an eye? There is a lot more. You saw me doing right now. Yeah. Where are there a lot more on women like. I mean, I value what we think. This is where it's nuanced. I value the subjective opinion. I don't value dwelling on it for too long. Because then it becomes less valuable than just posting it and making another edit. It's not just going to be a film. It's going to be a film. (waves crashing) - So, it seems really wonderful. - And I have to resort to that. - Correct, and that's how you decide who has good instincts. You know, like, we have a read on who's coming up with good ideas and making good edits, and we're just, we're in the first era where the art is measurable. It wasn't people. - Yeah, it was just whatever the guys in the scene was by. - Yeah, and what the working media dollars did to hide if it was good or bad. Like, if you made a video and you were lucky enough that it was a commercial and Honda for McDonald's spent $50 million in media for Amplifier, and everybody saw it. And, you know, like, one could argue, oh, that's good, what was it? Like, was there a better video to be made that would have sold more cars or burgers? The answer's yes. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. - What, what, should we get this a lot? What a CEO says. I get where you're coming from, I just don't, I just don't like it. Or maybe not necessarily to you, but what a CEO. - To me too. - That's the one that's different to you. - Yeah. - Well, in social, in social, it costs so little to make it for a CEO. You're like, can we at least post? And this is where handles and platforms come in. - What did you really start doing? - I had to start doing this. - Probably a year, 18 months ago? - Yeah. - Once I realized you didn't need followers to get views. You know, that changed everything. - That was like the last couple years. - That was the last couple years. - You had a lot of heart, way harder, way harder, you had a fight to get into the feed, you know? - Yeah. - It's like the first thing we've heard, man, when it's also part of you. - Of course. You're creating the tunnel for everybody to ride through. - One effort, however many years to get, how many times does that, is the another's did it like a year or so, 'cause then the path is not. - Of course, the consumer behavior had been created, you know? - You know, dunce is hard, but you're generally off team. Let's do 100 pieces of creative. Not only that, four hour meetings for free pieces of the dunce, but generally, obviously, it's too awesome. - That is correct. That your trains opinion, your opinion, my opinion, are all valid until they hit the feed and then the views are the views. I subjectively thought that our edit on this was nowhere close to as good as the one that I saw. The views are about to show that I was right. But I still didn't stop it. And I'm Gary Vee, a 20 year veteran who's really done it. And if I have the humility to say, "Teen, don't you, right?" Think about that. Think about where I'm at. - You knew like, right at first watch. - Yes. - It wasn't sharp, right? With example, it wasn't the same sharpness. - That comes from just kind of zero-round. - Yeah. And then I can do this, right? Which is like, team I'm talking to Matt and Train about my belief that the video that we just posted wasn't gonna do as well as it could have, because the transition wasn't as sharp as the example that I saw about this idea. Does everybody agree? Disagree, let me know. - I don't know. I don't know. Just that. I don't know how many people are in the club. I don't know how many companies like you would say that. It's like a team. You know? - Right. - You just get a lot of, and not the tower type of folks. Even now, you know, that's just having a discussion. - Right, instead of like, what don't you mean, like just like classic or just not saying anything at the time? - Right. - Yeah, well, the good, you know, this goes to the point of me, not I don't live in the tower. I'm in the dirt with you guys, you know? I don't resonate with the tower. I understand that that, I'm in my point of my career where I could tower it, but I think it's more fun to play backyard football in the mud than it is to eat caviar and champagne. I'm not gonna test. You know, that's just who I am. I don't, by the way, I don't even think that that makes me better than where I don't think that people should admire me for that. It just is. - Sounds like a lot of this for going back to the stop or for me to make a greater, please, you posted off this a lot. Like, good enough versus perfection, right? - Good enough to make the next post better versus the insecurity of perfection that almost always fails and then does. - Right, I'm iterative versus delusional. - Sorry. - So we must work some hard. Maybe this something. - Oh, I like this acronym of die, delusional, insecure, entitled, you know, I think when you're delusional, insecure and entitled, you die. I think we should write an article of like, the IE, why so many creative and marketing executives die because they're delusional, insecure and entitled on how their opinions matter in the creative process. Instead of leaning into humility and curiosity and data and truth and merit need a bowel and they're gonna make a word out of it. I think that's why most marketing executives die. Delusion, insecurity and entitlement. - So much more fair enough. - It's just measurable, like it wasn't. It wasn't measurable five years ago. It's social changing within social. I don't know if we've written the manifesto that we don't live in social media anymore. We live in interest media. [BLANK_AUDIO] I think we should, you know, social media is dead, interest media is here. That's the title. Let's go into it. Is something like, remember it is, and then can say something, maybe? Yeah, like, yeah, like a fear, like a soup. So, safe. Yeah. It's a matter of-- I think that's it. Curiosity. It's part of it. 100% That's not part of it. That's why my content evolved. My early content was about tactics. And then I'm like, why aren't you all doing it? I'm like, oh, shit. There's something real underneath all this. This is that family business vibes that is the warmth. Like, you know, it's really cool that you're in it right now. And you can really sense it. And you're also not 22. You've worked in other places. So you have contacts. Right? I always feel worse for the kids that come to Vayner. You know, yeah, because they don't know. And then they're 24, 25, and they go somewhere else. And they're like, what the fuck? Like, the level of taking it for granted is heavy. This knowledge is very evident on right away. Yeah. It's a good idea. Yeah. It's very rare. Yeah. There's a lot of politics and bullshit. Yeah. It's predominantly that. Yeah. So maybe that's the answer to this, which is like a practical step. Where else can you take it? Maybe it really starts less about people. Well, I think for a corporation, they're not going to have Gary V. The founder, like, I can't-- that's not practical advice. That might be advice to seek out an environment you might want. I see. You know, environment. Most people want can only be found in a founder-led business. Once the founder's out, once she or he has gone-- now, the problem with a founder-led business is 80% of the time, a founder's a psycho. It's even worse than a corporation. But man, when you find that 20% founder-led business, where you've got a kind-hearted, well-intended leader, because even if I was the CEO of GE or Fiji Water, there's a lot of inertia, corporates, public company, board. There's a lot of shit that I wouldn't be able to do that I do now. That just looks like your baby. You know, it's like-- Yeah, and I don't mind. Like, I'm a very passionate guy. I could adopt someone else's baby and treat it as my own. I could run a business that's not mine. My founding business. It's the rules of engagement of a public company, all this stuff that makes it tough. I mean, you know, where I feel a little bit doing business in New York and California. I don't control city hall. There's a lot-- you know, I'm a pretty liberal dude in a lot of ways, but there's a lot of shortcomings in, you know, like people crying about bullshitting and litigation. And like, when you're to the company, you're in a shitty spot in some of these cities. That's why Travis was able to do a big brand, so. Well, yeah, he could fight sitting-- that was a different version. This is more about why people are moving to Florida and Texas. It's not about like they're trying to avoid taxes, though that is part of it. It's, you know, if somebody-- if you were like Gary mistreating me right now, it's a headache from me. It can literally make it up. Like literally our relationship right now. Think about that. Yeah. In Florida, Texas, like, fuck you prove that. In New York, you got to Gary yourself. Ha! I didn't do anything. Yeah. You know, it's tough. It's not something there as far as you've talked about. Let me go back, because I didn't want to lose it. That's why I put-- I can't fix the cultural thing every time. But I can fix the operational process to get to good work. And the operational process is you have a revision. Post a prior-- make the revision. Post another hand or a platform. Actually, in fact-- Do you want to do that, please? Teen for fun, because we're talking about this right now, Matthew and I, for articles, let's make that same video revised a little bit harder, a little bit more dynamic, a little bit more similar to the other one. Like, let's just make three different versions of what we just made. And let's post it on some of the platforms or handles. Go a little bit more on the clientele. It can be a session on the board. [INAUDIBLE] It was just sort of-- Yeah. I've always been-- I mean, my mom is early as when I was five, six, seven years old, actively called me Golden Heart. Golden Hearted Boy. I was just always nice. And I see it. I see it in my son. I'm like, oh, I now know what my mom saw. Like, Sandra had a very early age. Four or five years old had empathy. Like, somebody got hurt. He's playing over here. He would go over. And so it's ingrained, but then you have to refine it. And I think some people start that way. You know what I did well? And again, it could be DNA. It could be parenting. It could be circumstances. I didn't give up on people when I was treated with hate. I think people go into a shell. I think a lot of people start off with that. And everyone starts off potentially loving and open. What do you do when you're met with that person in negativity, darkness? I doubled it down on love, heart, light. I think a lot of people go into a shell, and they protect themselves. This is what I think about insecurity and self-esteem. I was strong enough to your bullying. I was strong enough to feel bad for you. And I'm going to try to help you make a joke. Be like, yo, come on, versus fight back. Now, that doesn't mean that you're a walkover. Like, I'm not going to let anyone punk me. But on my first reaction to your disrespect, I don't feel like you're punking me. I want to see if I can give you a little benefit of the doubt. In fact, I have a business meeting with someone who a year ago, at Super Bowl, like 13 months ago, I didn't-- I remember the event. Did not realize it was the same human being. That human being punked me so hard in a business dinner 10 years ago. Downright rude. Didn't know the context of the situation as an investor, of what I was getting. I got some advisory shares to help a business. This guy at a dinner just out of nowhere, rudely abruptly shits all over me. He says, you brought no value. We gave you fucking shares. Fucked you. Like, very rude. I ate it. And it's calmly 12 people out of dinner, trying to trash my reputation. I said, I appreciate where you're coming from. Chemicals raging. Wanting to pick up knife and let's go. But I have a strength to say, hey, I just don't think you know all the details. This founder that you're trying to protect is clearly not educating you on all the things that have been going on. You're coming from your ivory tower. You're not in the dirt. And this is your judgment on me because I'm an easy target. He apologized to me over a cocktail and a super bowl. And I did not remember it was him. That and the interesting part of that story is, not only did I address it the way I addressed it, it was such a non-advent to me that I didn't even recall what was the human being. It's one thing to have the emotional intelligence strength to be the bigger man. It's another thing to like, have it be such an unadvent that you don't even recall who it was. Talk about water off and give back, right? Because there are times I remember people rousing me that I do know. I'm like, I'm going to get you standing later. You know, anyway. Wow, sorry. If I'm some wondering this. That's not, that's just, that's not right. You mean the 98% of the people that are going to read this? Like, how do I get there? By just by realizing that not everything's about you. It's crazy because I'm so Gary. And yet I think nothing's about me. Do you all see that as, like if anyone in this train has the permission to potentially think something's about them, it's someone who has a lot of no to write, right? Has a big platform has had a lot of impact. I am who I am. People who say to me, Gary, you have no idea how many people you've been packed. And I'm like, I sure do. Yet I have the humility to understand that everyone's actions have nothing to do. It's a tough place for people to put it. Yeah, I think people that don't have the credibility or any data to support why they should not be humble are not humble. I'm just so grateful. I say, I've been saying it more the last three four years. It's very challenging to say out loud that your humility is your superpower because by nature you're saying it potentially looks to people as how can you be humble if you're saying you're human. But I don't know, like there's that detachment. I'm analyzing myself without being within myself. I'm so grateful for it. I wonder if the whole thing falls apart without my humility. But there isn't that I'm not capable of understanding my impact. My humility doesn't detach the ability to understand all the skills and all the good and the accolades. I'm aware of them. They're just so not defining of me that I'm able to not let it penetrate me. Which also means that I don't let the failures penetrate me. Do you realize the importance of such a pretty scary being or a child from the enemy? Never. I only analyzed it after I realized it. There was never a conscious day of like, "Oh, I'm about to get known." I say this a lot and I mean it. I'm not capable of not being myself. And who I really am is a nice person. You know, that's it. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention. And thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.