The Death of Music Genres: A Conversation with Rico Nasty

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Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Great artists do not just conform to one genre. They expand it, bend it, and sometimes shatter it completely. Because true artistry was never meant to be confined to some shelf in a music store. Audiences don't even listen by genre anymore. They build their playlists by mood, vibe, and what emotion resonates with them in that song. And really, this whole concept of genres was kind of a marketing tool meant to label artists so that they could all fit on the same radio station or on the same shelf. Making music easier to sing, and making music easier to play. Making music easier to sell or play on the radio. But great artists of our time do not fit into one category. The old rules don't apply, or maybe they're evolving into something new entirely. No one embodies that spirit more to me than Rico Nasty. From the very beginning of her career, she's blurred the lines between rap and punk and pop, pulling from each world but never letting herself be defined by any of them. One song that might feel like you're in a mosh pit, and the next a trap anthem, but it's covered in glitter. And yet, it is so undeniably her. That energy, that individuality, that refusal to be boxed in. That is Rico Nasty. What makes her artistry so powerful to me is that it reflects where music is heading as a whole. Where it's exciting to see people pull inspiration from different sources, use extremely niche references, and not focus on conformity, but evolution. So today, we're asking, what does it mean to be an artist without a genre? How do you carve out that piece of identity? In a world that is becoming so blurred? And what does it mean to stick to your own artistic vision? So what better person to have in this conversation than Rico Nasty herself? An artist who's built a career around breaking every boundary and pushing every box put in front of her. Welcome back to Nikki and I. I'm your host, Nikki Riordan. And I could not be more excited to have the one, the only, Rico Nasty. Hi! Dude, I'm so excited to talk to you. Hell yeah. I think that you are just one of the best artists in the world. And I think that you are just one of the best artists in the world. every box put in front of her welcome back to nikki and i i'm your host nikki bird and i could not be more excited to have the one the only rico nasty uh hi dude i'm so excited to talk to you hell yeah i think that you are just well you're iconic like i you have just done so much in such a cool way like even when i was like doing research for this episode i was like you'd release like five mixtapes as a teenager before even like you know i was like i and the amount of music you have put out in this experimentation of genre and sounds is like what has always like made me gravitate back towards you of like just listening to the range of everything like one project is so expansive as we'll talk about with lethal and like the way a song like smile to a song like crash you know what i mean and the range of it i think is is so expansive beautiful um also a fellow dmv girly we need to talk about it of course when i found out that you were from virginia i was like oh my gosh you i already we love you new we it's a spiritual connection people and also i don't know if you feel this way i weirdly run into people like all the time like it somehow comes up in conversation no literally i've had uber drivers find someone from maryland or virginia when i'm driving i always see the license plate like i always like i'll notice it so quick or i'll even notice it in someone's accent and i'm like wait interesting you're from the east coast i can tell you're from like new york yeah yeah you're from over there totally and also i think like um like moving to california and stuff and like pursuing this sort of life like yeah coming from virginia maryland like i feel like i just like appreciate california more so much you know what i mean like this yeah the opportunity here and like i remember coming here and being like oh my god there's palm trees right yeah i remember the first time i came here and it was like oh my gosh the like the desert the desert was like i mean you see it in a lot of my early music videos i love the desert i like to go into the desert just for fun like um because i never had a desert or even thought that like i didn't know what was out there honestly and i think it's just so um crazy because yeah there there are no palm trees there is there's no desert um and it's very like dry out here like you know back home it's very like green it's very like rain forest you get the best and the worst of it yeah so i i do love it out here i mean i'm not gonna lie the hiking very very i'm such an la girly now because me too i've been here for like three years and i'm like getting spoiled by the weather a bit like air one when i go everyone's fine okay that's kind of my tea let me tell you we're talking thank you for somebody finally speaking up because i'm gonna be honest thirty dollars for cauliflower no girl no no no like i have things that i like you know i mean like the occasional sushi or something but like it's not against me it's like why yeah like why like onigiri exactly speaking of onigiri in japan also a random thing you talk about i know that you watch anime yes i love okay a little bit okay i'm not like you know i have some real i got some real bitches that's really really doing that you know like i know like snitchery right right they are like really they live by that shit okay i don't want to be a poser that's why i find like a cute show i'm tuned in and give me like a three three favorite animes three favorite animes i'm gonna say the same one show bits i love cyberpunk i do okay i fuck with cyberpunk okay i fuck with cyberpunk for your music i think cyberpunk is fire i love the soundtrack for cyberpunk i think like the characters are fire i think like every everything the fight scenes everything they get really really fire yeah and i really really like um what would be the one that i put last i mean i like demon slayer demons it's like the most beautifully like animated show which i love yeah yeah my favorite hunter x hunter because i feel like it's like subtly gay okay have you ever watched it oh is it really it's not like directly implied but you're like i said wait you're like these two boys like you're a little bit more than friends you know what i mean what about my hero academia love okay love hunter hunter i don't know like i'm not gonna let i said wait don't say that my son is watching hunter hunter and i don't know much about it so i'm like wait are they are they being gay on there because i need to watch that because you know they'd be trying to sneak it they sneak it i mean there's one character that's like maybe slightly concerning for your son but he's not the main character he's not the main character he's not the main character he's not the main character there is like the two characters like i don't explain it they're just like young and they're best friends but like so it's just not it's like burton ernie yes okay exactly i love that exactly you know what i mean you're like wait i got a little something going on it can be a bit much when it's like when they forcefully do it i'm like wait wait wait we need to have these conversations before no totally in that case i actually do love when they like show that i mean i think it's healthy in general when they portray like healthy male relationships i mean i was kind of watching your like show that i mean i think it's healthy in general when they portray like and i was thinking about that i was like wow i think it's really messed up that men don't really like have no it's so sad it's yeah it's it's crazy like it's something i think about with like the male versus female i feel like you get this like unique perspective as a gay man where like you empathize this idea of like being a man but also like have these moments where you're like one of the girls you know what i mean and like the intimacy that comes from that um which is so is yeah it's so interesting i think that the guys they just need to watch hunter hunter and get into it and cyberpunk yeah um but really getting into the music and like talking about this like concept of of you know the genre in general um i really want to go back all the way to the beginning with you because i think like something very interesting when we think about you know i'd say like what the era of music we're in is like this like social media era of music right where like we now have all these tools that are free to any artist on earth right like and you see the people who like have blown up on soundcloud or tiktok or whatever right and you are someone who was like really blew up i think at like the genesis of that which was soundcloud yeah um and i like that the genesis it was yeah and like you know when you think about these artists like they're one soundcloud very heavily like influence the rap community when you think about you know you and chance the rapper or juice world or 21 savage but i also think of artists like a billy eilish or a clero like i think what was interesting about the soundcloud is there was no like era there's no gatekeeper yeah um and i think i'm very like interested to hear like you know as an artist yourself and someone who's like so creating like do you feel like these tools like the the internet itself has allowed you to like not have to conform to one thing i think it has to do with a lot of what i consumed as a child interesting i think it has a lot to do with like always having the personality of like okay well i like this stuff and people might think that it's weird but this is what i like yeah kind of like being rooted what my personality is kind of like built off is like liking what i like and not liking what i don't like and thinking like okay i like these two things together i mean whether that's like weird stuff i do with my taste buds or like weird stuff i do with my fashion weird stuff i do with the music it's just like i i love it being like a mixing pot of everything and i think it's so funny how music i my music my relationship with music was born because it was born out of me trying other arts interesting so like I was doing painting and then I was doing poetry and then that developed into music yeah it's kind of like I've always kind of just like to dibble and dabble and stuff and even like in my earlier days like early early SoundCloud days like a lot of the artwork for my records was like artwork that I did that's so cool so it's like I kind of always was like mixing up the medicine a little bit I love that I think like when it came to music I just always I mean when we're talking SoundCloud I was really really influenced by Young Lean interesting and I say that because like Young Lean was a person that like I was listening to Young Lean and I was listening to Pouya and like Rob Banks I was really really heavily I don't know what was up with like my SoundCloud routing but it was like always in Florida like when artists in Florida would drop I would know so I became like a really big fan of like the scene out there and I feel like that's kind of like how I wound up being early on a lot of other things too like Florida's always had a crazy crazy music scene so I just remember like listening to Pouya listening to Rob Banks and then listening to Young Lean and like then Instagram was a thing so then I'm realizing wait like they're literally just like shooting videos with well also my fan of like Tyler the Creator being a fan of Tyler and him always being heavy on YouTube yeah and it was like YouTube kind of became the space where like vlogs were now music videos with your friends yeah so it was like oh like if I can get a bunch of my friends oh okay so that's what they're doing okay okay okay so like kind of give you like this the the recipe to study right but that's just like Florida when I brought up Young Lean because at that time his music videos were a little bit more like abstract they didn't really have a story or um like a thing that it was trying to be it just was it was a cool thing that you would have in the background it made like Fiji water bottles cool and like that was like something that I just heavily remember so much just being like okay so when I do my stuff I just want it to look very DIY and I became like obsessed with that and understanding like oh like you can take three hours out of your day and shoot some fire shit with your friends like you don't have to you know um get so caught up in these budgets and like oh this is gonna take this much money a lot of my like most famous music videos didn't cost like really anything at all I mean I just did it like with my with my homies like the ones that blew me up at least they weren't like ten thousand dollar videos with like the best camera and I think like it's so important for up-and-coming artists to understand like it's okay when you start off to look a little broke like I think it adds to the people like it yeah yeah yeah and I think like don't be ashamed yeah I think like resourcefulness is like a skill as an artist like you you need to be able to work with what you have and what you have and the people around you are who your collaborators are will always change but like the one common denominator is going to be your ability to adapt to the situation yeah which can get hard though I'm not gonna lie I've dealt with that like in my earlier days it was easier to like speak up whether that's on set or like when it had things to do with my music because it's like you know me and my homies and then you get into more bigger space and it's it's not your homies anymore and it's people who like oh I know so much about music right so you're like wait maybe should I should like listen to this person and then you're like actually no I would never fucking listen to this person this person if we went to the store I wouldn't even listen to what I wouldn't even like let them pick out something that I would wear so why would I listen to them with my music or it's like they don't have the life that you want so like why am I not even like that I think it's it doesn't even come down to the life that I want it comes down to taste okay taste just that's that simple if we go into a shoe store and I tell you to pick something out for me you bring me back some corny shit it's a taste thing it doesn't have anything to do with like oh I'm a rapper I got money and I and I did this shit and I believe in myself no it's like you can be a person that works wherever you work yeah and still have taste totally like you can still have taste and I think like taste is the foundation of artistry yeah and like something I really am have been like so fascinated with you about specifically um is like your taste and collaborators I think is one of the coolest things about you like one did you know that you have 49 collab songs I did but that's iconic who wants to be the 50th state me who wants to be it's me like sneezing on the track for like you know what I mean in the volumes all the way down but we're getting it just to round out the 50 but I have two features that I am dying to drop really with like one with Lola Lola Young it's really good I love I love Lola Young so much Lola Young and you is such a good combination she might be I'm not gonna lie she might be top two and she might be top three but I don't know I don't she's not too when it comes to I have never worked with somebody like that bro like I was I don't know if it's just because like her voice is so like captivating or the way she writes is captivating her swag she's just like so real and raw and I really I love her yeah and like that was I think what was cool about her was like um like when messy blew up in the way that it did was it was like not just cool like in the sense of like that song and just this like vulnerability but I was like this is cool from you like her specifically like being so her style is so like out there and her you know like the way she is on stage is crazy and maximalist and like I love again like I love somebody who just goes for it and I love when when I love how she's just so the way that she talks about love is still like vulnerable but also like powerful yeah yeah I'm but like I'm still me right and I think it's like also like this introspection and exploration of flaws that is super interesting but this perfectly segues two questions one I want to talk back touch back a little bit about like the the the the the the the the the the the back on the Florida thing but like when talking about you know as somebody who has like worked with a ton of people right and some of them vary in your lane right like you think of like a like Doja Cat and Meg and like those types of artists but also like Fred again and Kali Uchis like what do you see in an artist that makes you want to collaborate with them um taste so then what is taste to Rico Nasty cool like you're just cool I don't know like you're just you like you just are you're just cool like I've been in the studio with a couple people where it's like yeah you make fire music but you're not you don't know who you are you don't know who you are yet and I think that is again talking about this like foundation of artistry it's like people who so are like rooted in this idea of themselves almost to the point where you have to be a little bit delusional in a beautiful way right like part of of having taste and like part of being ahead is like you're just like you're just like you're just like you're just that you're like I know this thing is cool and this is going to resonate with people even if no one's doing it yet right like that like that's part of it is like yeah no one is doing it and like that also means that there's going to be people who don't get it but I also think when there's people who don't get it it means the ones who do get it get like like it more I think that's why like I can honestly say like I've I have a very strong fan base because I think I built it off of like raw real I feel like I'm in acquired taste and I've said this before I feel like I'm in acquired taste like if you get it you get it if you don't you don't if you've experienced crazy shit then you get it and if you you know like get rowdy and rough you get it some people aren't like that and that's okay so I kind of just look at it like at least I'm attracting more people that are like me yeah like and I think that's the biggest part about being yourself and like understanding yeah this might not be cool today but like it'll be cool in a couple years whatever the fuck however long it takes honestly I'm not going to be cool in a couple years I'm not going to be cool in a couple years honestly I don't care if it ever becomes cool like I think it's cool right now yeah and I think that's the biggest thing of it is like so many people have started be acting kind of like that like oh like yeah it's not cool right now but like it'll be cool like I'm making it cool but it's like when you're really doing that shit bro like I don't give I don't care if it catches on I hope it doesn't bitch mind your business I want to do that I want to do my own thing you know and I think like that also comes out in the collabs because you look at the artists and like Fred always does his own thing and Fred is like in the hip-hop world in the dubstep world in the electronic world he's all over the place with the shit so it's like also when it comes to collabs I love collabing with people who don't want to like box me in and I don't also don't want to sit here and be like oh yeah like all my collabs are intentional because some of them aren't like some of them the label just brings in like I'm not gonna lie I don't I'm so tired of lying and yeah well I also think again like one of the things I admire you is like you've never been afraid of like output like you'll just make something because you wanted to make it and it was fun in that moment and it was and there it's out you know like that's it that's it and I think that that's like actually a thing artists should do more of like all artists and all things is like like there is this beauty to experimentation and um also with like talking about you know how you're like I don't care if this thing is appreciated in its time or not like one of the exactly made me think of this is Tia one of the most popular it is like over a billion streams it's like it is iconic and I don't think it's one of her most popular songs definitely one of my most popular songs it is it is one of her most popular songs yes see love you does it like that no way and like that was such like a beautiful collaboration because also it's one of those things like i think what like people didn't get it i think people genuinely to this day don't even understand the reference tia tamara to like bro i'm not gonna lie even when that song happened like if you would have told either of us even like in the space doja was in at that time like if you would have told either of us like oh babe like if somebody would if someone would have came on set that day and said yeah babe this is gonna be this shit by the way this is gonna be one of the biggest female rap songs of this generation yeah um and yeah have fun shooting at we would have literally looked at each other i'm like get them the fuck out of here you're fucking weird i don't like that so it's so weird like just being on set all day and again just making funny faces and doing funny scenes and making a mess and getting slimed and all this shit that we did that day i would have never thought i would have never been like oh my god this is gonna be a biggest video ever and that's how cool shit is made yeah like everybody get in line today's the day we're gonna make a fucking hit yeah it doesn't work like that right and like i think that exactly and like i i think that like authenticity is very palpable like people can can tell and sense it out yeah and and that's like what's so beautiful about a moment like that and also i love that like i think that song has so much more depth than people realize like there's this quote from doja that i love when talking about that song she is like um talking about how you know they're like rap as a genre is one that is is known for having like many like iconic like fights and feuds but she's like i think it's important to instill that and make people think that that's that's not the only way that girls hate each other all the time because they don't exactly and like that is a song tia tamera is a reference to sisters you know and like it's literally a reference about us teaming up to beat your fucking ass it's literally about like yeah like girl power is fuck and i mean honestly too i feel like even us respectively in our own careers i'm sure have dealt with the like just like they're they're they like to like mix just be real mixy with us and like yeah oh this person doesn't like you and it's so like weird and i'm honestly happy that the people that i have real relationships with and like people who are just like okay like there's there's nothing like this is nothing like you guys are just fucking yeah but like it's just like it's just like it's just like you guys are just fucking weird but like when i was younger i think that that fueled a lot of like my internet presence was just like it was that it was arguing with other girls it was catty it was like totally no i don't give a fuck and i think that that too i think that too is a part of girlhood i think you have to like go through a lot of like sticky shit and beefs to really start to value what of like friendship is and what that like looks like for you because i don't want to sit here and say like oh yeah i was the most popular girl in high school i really wasn't i had two friends and i still have really like two friends yeah and i struggle with that like i guess being in the industry and just being like what what is this like you know i think it's perspective is what it is like it's it's a good thing to have even we're talking about earlier like that's this idea like moving to california you know like i know that i appreciate california more than my friends were born here because i see all the things around me that i did not have growing up you know what i mean yeah and i think that like friendships are very similar where it it's you go through these experiences with people that hurt you to realize why you love the people that you love because they would never do that to you or you go through these experiences where it's like we don't have to be like wow we're best friends for people to be like cool yeah and i think a lot of times like like being younger it's like yeah you get a picture with someone and they think that you guys are like best friends and kind of just realizing like no like it's chill bro like yeah it's super chill like everybody calm the fuck down totally no totally okay one i want to ask you about one more song before we talk about lethal okay because i have many things i'm scared no only good things oh my god i'm almost done with my candy corn um like when you're talking about this this love of um like the florida music scene and the rap scene especially i feel like sort of this like like georgia florida and chicago have been like the really like big emerging like rap scenes um and you have a song called swamp bitches with dochi and oh yeah back in florida exactly and back at florida again that's what i'm saying like this yeah like every like when you were talking about how much you love like the florida rap scene and stuff like that and and we were talking about taste earlier too like talking about jt oh yeah jt's in florida too jt another i got to see her for the first time recently florida yeah but like that you know what i mean like when you were talking about that i was even just thinking like it's so clear that this love and respect you've had for music as an art form has always been there right because like it's like swamp bitches was like it's not a new song you did and it's not like it's i don't know i just think it's cool to see this like consistency of taste thank you it's like i get what you're saying it's like yeah because don't she's having a crazy crazy crazy run right now right and it's like yeah i didn't get the feature right now right i got the feature like yeah but that's because you have taste yeah and you know what i mean like you knew like that's and i think that's beautiful i do i give a shout out to don't she too because don't you reach out to me don't she was like bitch i fucked you i actually wanted me on crazy and then it was like oh we're gonna do our own song like i think that that that's also cool is that sometimes it really takes one to know one like it really do because like you look at something and be like yeah this person doesn't need to be the most fucking famous person right now but like there's still fire and i believe in your vision and i believe in your vision i believe in her vision as well like i think she's fire i think yeah i love everything that she's done even like even like looking at somebody like tizo yeah like i feel like when i work with tizo it was like i even i was kind of just finding out about him and it was like one of those things i was just like obsessed i was like oh shit like this person is fire his bio at the time was like you're early like i love that yeah so i was like okay bet i'm early cool cool cool which was just like an ode to what we were saying and people knowing and understanding like this is like a long journey like i'm not here for the here today gone tomorrows and it's very hard to find that in the in this industry like there's a lot of here today gone tomorrow there's a lot of like he says he say she say within the industry of like oh you should work with this person because they're hot right now oh you should work with this person because they're hot right now and like like i said in my earlier days i would listen to that and you might see certain features that don't really make sense but they were still cool for the time but they just don't make sense and i think like when you look at like like the older that i got in it it was just like yeah i i really started deep diving into people's catalogs and being like all right if they fuck with me i fuck with them like let them ask for feature for show i'm saying yes or let me ask for feature of course they're saying yes because they get it like and we're here i love that and and yeah that's that's the beauty also of like the community aspect of music is yeah is like resonating okay we gotta talk about the new album okay because i have so many thoughts there's so many songs i'm gonna talk about one like what really struck me is like i think this is the album where you've like really dive into your range as an artist like the best and the broadest in a way that's so cool right like to go from like smoke break to smile is like crazy but i love it like that's why you're so cool as an artist to me you know like it's like nobody is is willing to do that um and also in a way that i think always makes sense it's also something that's very impressive about it to me you know like it doesn't feel random um so i want to talk about like a few songs specifically first i think my favorite i'm between two for my favorite song on the album three maybe okay start with on the low and one like i love that it's this sort of cyber pop production right that i think it's like been your signature thing for a while um and it opens that electric guitar riff but um what i think is so cool is this is a song that is about being like smitten almost right like you're you're kind of like in love like yeah like thinking about that person you know yeah it's on the low it's on the low it's on the low for sure and like um like that energy to me gave you know like dancing with my friends driving with the windows down but then you did tiny desk and your tiny desk performance of this song is like you performed it in a different genre want to be the one who's always in the know about the game the scores the plays here's a tip the apple sports app just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules and when your team scores it shows up right on your iphone lock screen making it easy to check in anytime so rule the group chat and download apple sports for free on the app store or find it on your new iphone i get so many headaches every month it could be chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month each lasting four hours or more botox on a botulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine it's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month prescription botox is injected by your doctor effects of botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing speaking breathing eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk side effects may include allergic reactions neck and injection site pain fatigue and headache allergic reactions can include rash welts asthma symptoms and dizziness don't receive botox if there's a skin infection tell your doctor your medical history muscle or nerve conditions including als lugaric's disease myasthenia gravis or lambert eaton syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. It's not even like it, like just that one performance. I was like, oh, I could be slow dancing in the kitchen on a Sunday night with my lover while we're cooking dinner to that version of it. And it was like one of those moments where I literally watched that Tiny Desk and I instantly went and opened it and listened to the song again to like really. That's why we do those things. Yeah. And that's what I like. Shout out to the band, man. Shout out to the band. And shout out to NPR. That format is incredible. It's iconic. But that was one of those moments. I also like with this album, too, that I I loved and I think was so cool. Like just like the fact that you did that. Thank you. I thought it was important to like showcase the softer side and like really show people for this album. Like, yeah, just as lethal as it is. It is soft. And and there are moments that can be high energy placed at a lower scale. Yeah. Like it's OK to chill out sometimes. And I feel like that. I don't know if that's coming with age or what that's about, but I'm all for like just slowing things a bit down nowadays and just like, well, the tour is going to be crazy. I don't know. I'm kind of lying. The tour is going to be kind of like the intro back. I'm like, wait, this is about to be crazy. This is going to be insane. OK. But but again, it's not one or the other. It's get you one that can do both. You know what I mean? Like that's and we were talking about like slowing down like Smile was again like that was one of those songs where it's like the fact we go through this entire album of it's the last song on the album and then we go through this entire album of this cyberpunk production. And also you know that like Rico, like that sort of like aggression and like passion you can bring to a song. And then it just ends with this like ballad and this like use of your. Singing that I don't even think I've like heard you explore before. But like, why did you decide to put a song so different than the rest of the album? I love being taken on like inexperience. I like being taken on a ride. I like not knowing where I'm going to go next. And I think the biggest part as to why I did that specifically was also because I didn't have any features. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like I don't want the like the listener to get bored. And I mean, how could you ever get bored listening to Rico Nasty? No, that's not possible. But at the end of the day. That's not possible. It's just not possible. But if you weren't listening to an album and I was like, you know, they have plenty of albums of me screaming and plenty of albums of me rapping and plenty of albums of me trying to be different and all of these other things. And I thought to myself, I said, what if I just gave them all of them? Like every version. Because the next album, I don't plan on being that vulnerable. I don't plan on like I don't. That's like a rare occasion when I'm able to share in that way. And I feel like on my last project, like I wanted to, but I was going through so much that it was coming out forced. Interesting. It was coming out like I was like, like. But why do you think why do you feel like you're afraid to show that part of yourself? Because from my perspective on the outside, like it's constantly. Something is so loved about you, right? Like even this, we're talking about like the tiny desk thing. Like people loved that. I don't know. It just feels so like, well, I guess it's just because I come from a different space. I come from the space where if it's so weird, I come from a space where like if they're paying attention to you, you're not doing a good job. They should be jumping around. They should be having so much fun that the sweat is beating into their fucking eyes. They should be screaming, open the pet. They should be holding their friends. It should be. That's what I'm used to. I'm used to chaos and nonsense. When it's time to like slow it down and be like soft and sensual, it's just, it's very unfamiliar. And I mean, that's another reason why I wanted to do it. Cause I was like, it's about time I do something that I'm not normally used to doing. And it was like, we got halfway through the album and I was like, you know what? We're not, where's the acoustic guitars? We're just going to get into the electric guitar. And I remember my producer was kind of just like, acoustic. He's like, are you sure? I was like, yeah, acoustic. And it's funny repeating that. Cause that's the same story that happened with Smack-A-Bitch. Really? They wanted to get somebody. Somebody's getting smacked out there. But how did that happen with Smack-A-Bitch? Oh, cause well, Kenny came in there like, I want to put you to bubblegum trap. And I was like, cause I was working on sugar trap and I was like, I don't want that shit. Give me some. And that's how like Smack-A-Bitch happened. So it's funny that I'm kind of in the same space, but it's backwards. And I'm like, give me some, like, give me some harps, babe. Oh, a harp. I could get into. Give me some harps, babe. Maybe a saxophone we throw in. Like I'm coming in that bitch referencing Sade. Like they're like, what's going on? I love that though. I think it's a reflection of how I, how life is for me right now as well. Like I feel very chill. Quaint. Yes. Yeah. Tranquil. I love that. I love that. Organized. I mean, uh, another song that I felt like went in a different, like, I've always felt like you sat on the spectrum of like rap is like your core. Right. And like one side of the spectrum is I think this sort of like a bit more like of the leaning pop type sound, a bit more of that cyberpunk when you're doing a bit of electronic type production. And then on the other side of it has been this like very heavy rock influence, right? Like this electric guitar and crash, I felt like was really you going right. Like you going on that guitar side and that rock side. Yeah. And not trying to blend the two intentionally being like, let me do a song and just exactly this style. And I think it's so cool. That's one of the ones that's resonating the most with people. Wow. Yeah, I do too. Cause I think like that was kind of intentional as well as like, I didn't want to rap on that song. I still wanted to give like a vibe and a bop and, and have some swag to it, but I didn't want it to be like me, like rapping over guitar. Cause we've already done that. Yeah. This song is just like more of like, yeah, you can ride to it. You can vibe to it. And it actually is more like the rock that I listened to on an everyday basis. Like I'm not listening to fucking heavy metal to pick up my son listening to like Radiohead or The Cure. So it's like kind of crazy being like just in a space where you're able to do that. Like you're able to make music that make the music that you listen to and make the, and make the art. That has always inspired you. Cause sometimes like you just said about being put in a box, sometimes it's like, well, you're a rapper. So yeah, this beat has guitars on it, but we want you to rap. And it's like, no, I'm not actually. No, not on this one. Like that's the point. And that's what makes it special. Like, especially when you're like listening to an album, start to finish, which I love to do. Like it, that's like what makes the song like have that sort of like gravity towards it is you're noticing you're like, Whoa, like this one didn't have that because like some songs, like literally all the songs start off like super, um, soft and airy and like somewhere along the line, they get more, I call it like electrocuted because they get like zapped and then they turn into hyper pop. And I think like, it's also weird, like people liking on the low and you saying you like on the low, cause on the low and pink were made like completely different than how they were. Interesting. Originally. Yeah. Like, did you write it as like a rap more? Yeah. So on, well, pink was more like, it was just a song. It was a much slower song. I'll play it for you after this, but it was a much, much slower song. It was nothing like the record that was placed on the album. And when it comes to on the low on the low was also like a very, it was on acoustic at first. It was, it was super simple. And so was, um, you could never, you could never was written on a, on acoustic. It wasn't written on a beat. Yeah. Like some songs are easier to write like acoustic or I don't want to give away the size. No, I mean, I love that you're like, this is one of the questions I was going to ask like about this idea of like being a, when you're an artist who pulls information, inspiration from multiple genres, like does sometimes does this song start when you start writing a song, you think it's going one way or you write a hook and you think it's, you know, really, you're like, Oh, this is a great rap hook. And then you start writing the rest of it and you're like, wait a minute, like this is a better song than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. Sometimes I'll write the, I'll write the fucking vert, like the verse and I'm like, I should have wrote the hook first because I'm talking about it, but I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about stuff. But I think that that's kind of like the fun puzzle piece to making music because then you like listen to the verse over and over and then you pick like, think whatever stands out. I'm like, okay, this is hook, but do a different or different melody or play on that or that world, bring it more to life. It's kind of funny also starting from a hook sometimes. Cause when I start with a hook, the hook will stay, it'll stay on that track. Like on the low was hook interesting. Hook was done. Okay. And those verses I did two or three times. Like I was like, Oh, I want to rap like this. Oh, I want to rap like this. So I went, Oh no, I actually want to rap more like myself, but I approached it exactly. Like you said, it had this pop element to it. Yeah. And if you can imagine it on like acoustic, like bare sounding instrumental, it's more, it's like, huh, how are we gonna hit it for another? it was kind of like one of those things that like sat there for a little bit and then like I got more comfortable with like experimenting with like something soft on the hook and more like okay let me just take it there like I don't need to be like trying to be melodic on here I should just rap no and also with that song too like the transition into pink is like it's like I remember the first time I was listening I literally did not realize it was a new song until like I think like you like to really like start going to the first verse it's like wait and I picked up my phone and it was like I was like she got me like I loved it like and that was like also a really cool um like the way those two songs blended together ended up being really I wanted to it would not have happened on acoustic I wanted to time my album like a tiktok I literally didn't want it to be like a breath like I don't want nobody to breathe just like play it and just after the song is done it's like like I just wanted it to just non like bleed and totally like I low-key feel like that's kind of like that's how I don't know it's easier for us to consume stuff like that like I don't need a long as intro long as outro bro just like get to it and the album is very like and I think when when artists do that like what you're describing is um it gives something unique to the experience of listening to the album in order first time and that right because it's like yeah you it's like if you put it on the album it's like if you put it on shuffle you don't hear those things right to you it's just oh song's over but when you listen to it chronologically and like have that experience of really like consuming an album you you notice that um and I love when artists do that because I think it's like also a a nod to like their really deep fans who are going on that experience I think like it definitely like builds it out yeah like it it builds it out but I oftentimes feel like same thing I if you listen to it in order it makes sense and the first time you listen to it it feels like an experience but like when I'm just like in the car vibing I don't want your fucking interlude to come on like I download the album because I like the song I don't want to hear okay hot take I love an interlude you're crazy no like do you know higher by Rihanna of course this whiskey got me feeling pretty that like I just love it it was just it's like 50 seconds of like this whiskey got me feeling pretty and I'm like you're right I'm talking like interlude is like you're talking raw instrumental interlude no I'm just talking when they just like get they homie to do like a yeah yeah you listen the voice note interlude yes the voice note interlude I could totally agree I don't like that the only one that I like is if it's like yo granny or yo like the frank ocean one but she like don't smoke weed bro I play that shit when I'm hiking and it dead ass makes me call my mom I'm like I need to call my mother that's beautiful that is a good interlude but and it says what it's like because I think it's a good interlude because it's relevant to understanding the artist yeah you know what I mean I also think that's what makes a good feature you know what I mean like when we're talking about uh whether that is you know like you doing a song with cali uchis we talked about it's like a Puerto Rican woman you know what I mean like and and that being the at least the first time I ever heard you speak Spanish that was the first time I ever spoke Spanish so you had to learn it for the song hell yeah you hang out with cali uchis you gonna speak Spanish I mean literally if cali uchis ask you to speak Spanish you're gonna she walks in the room and you're just fluent in Spanish and then she leaves the room and you you forget it all like girl but cali is so beautiful inside out she's also an amazing person and she's also a dmp girl she's a dmp girl we got I love that she's we got good ones for us okay I want to I want to talk about one last song um you mentioned earlier but there's like also like a specific you know line that really resonated with me um it's a song you could never oh yeah and the line is they thought I was crazy too out of the box step in my shoes and you see how I'm treated and it's this thing of like as an artist who has been ahead um what you did wasn't appreciated yeah and you had to experience the criticism for it until it was appreciated and then people try to copy it or like image it and use it you know what I mean it becomes a trend like the way like music works um I don't know I was just like fascinated with your experience with that yeah I think it's crazy because it's like yeah I inspired a lot of people to be themselves and I love that I absolutely think that is the coolest thing that I could have done honestly um but I mentioned that line I said that line because I felt like it's like yeah like yeah but it's not a lot it's not all like rainbows and unicorns bitch like yeah you want to be different you want to stand on something you believe in you want to go against the grain if you will and you'll see you'll get shit thrown at you left and right and you know yeah and have to explain yourself to a label or explain yourself to to people who literally don't even they have no say yeah and they were not a part of the fandom to begin with you know what I mean like I think that's another interesting thing with this discussion of like like people people love to talk about music good or bad and I'm not sure it's that is is it's like was that song meant for you like was it trying to speak to you and who you are you know what I mean like there are songs that I don't like but I understand who they're speaking to you or like they're it's like so like for a you know like a like a 12 year old girl or something right like I can tell and I'm like yeah they're trying to like write that song for the that younger version of themselves that they feel like they didn't get to experience and it's like I'm a 25 year old man and it's okay that I don't like that that doesn't mean it's bad it means that it's like a different audience and I don't know it's a random example I think that because of the internet music became this thing where it's like you should appeal to everyone and you should be this like meta star that everyone likes and like interesting gain like like everyone has to like me because I'm just like so like likable and that's not what music is music was always a rebellion yeah it was always a rebellion it was always for people to go against the grain and tell their own side of the story and tell whether what they weren't showing on the news what they weren't speaking about in the news politically like that's what music was for it wasn't to like I don't know it's not like a fucking it's been it's always been counterculture and like this thing that was based in community right like you if this artist is speaking to this thing that's like making you feel some type of way when you go to that show you know everyone else there feels like you feel like you yeah and that is the the magic of live music too it's like that collective euphoria right it's not just mine it's that we're all feeling this thing at the same time in the same I mean that's kind of my favorite part about touring really is like how many friendships are born on these tours where it's like oh yeah we met each other in the meet and greet line and they're best friends for the next five years or they're they met at at a record show and they're dating for the next six years yeah or or they end up working in music or something you know what I mean working in music working in fashion like all of it is so so inspiring I mean literally sad boy sad boy was on my on my very first tour my very first time going to Toronto I met sad boy really like she wasn't I don't think she was an artist I still feel like she was like really young she probably was like still in school um but she's like a fan and I was like yeah girl like you're so pretty like you're so cool and I always remember to like lift up my fans when I saw them because obviously I don't know when I'm gonna see them again and honestly like I would literally be like damn this person is so cool like I fuck with them and we're like in a room full of people and I fuck with them yeah and watching like obviously I'm not like oh yeah I'm following sad boy everywhere but it's like dude watching her three years go by four years go by I'm like wait she's making music wait she's good at music wait she's actually wait wait like wait like that's beautiful and it's kind of like going back to taste where it's like you know it's like you you literally know what real recognizes real yeah real recognizes real doesn't have to be like whether they're an artist at that time or not an artist I feel like I've just that is one that's really crazy like I'm so excited for her to come on tour with me like that is actually I feel like I'm two for two right now considering on the last tour clip she was like again she had went to a show I was her first concert so sick and now she's an artist and I just look at those things like oh my gosh like I absolutely you just never know what you are doing for someone else and how you are like shifting their mindset about shit and yeah how you're shifting their mindset about like wait I can actually do this yeah you can period and like anybody could do this I don't want to sit up here and be like oh my god I'm so I'm so different and genre bending like bro if you wake up today and you're like though I want to throw this on and it's just clothes or yeah yeah no I don't think genre running like pretend in a pretentious way and in a trueness yourself type of way and a trueness to your own taste do it my favorite thing to say when I go to the studio is we're just gonna throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks period period um okay well something I always like to end the episode with is like if you really want the people listening to this to like like listen to one song and like really sit with it like like read the lyrics and and you know like have that moment with it what song from this album do you want people from this album I was I was trying to help you with it curate it down okay and this this song is supposed to what tell a story about it can be anything it can just be like a song that you feel like like people haven't given enough attention to you it can be something where you're like i really like the message of this song it can be something where you just liked something you did on it i feel like people are not hearing pink okay like they're not hearing pink like i just like that song i feel like i'm rapping i feel like the bars are funny i feel like they yeah they're not hearing me i love that song listen to it and i specifically listen to the transition of of on the low end pink listen to them back to back because i'm obsessed with that part of the album um but rico it was dude it was so nice to meet you and like have you on the show i i had such an amazing time thank you um and yeah guys check out go see rico nasty on tour yeah come see me on tour guys it's gonna be so much fun and honestly like i think the best part about tour too is like the looks and also just like and apparently you might meet your new best friends yeah there's just there's precedent yeah there's precedent a lot of times they meet their best friends period a lot of times i think it's so cute it kind of makes me wish i could you know what i want to do so bad before we go i literally wish i could just like hire someone to perform as me and just go in the crowd and like see what they're talking about like a plant it's like undercover boss do you remember that show oh my god do you watch nathan for you i need to do like a nathan for you episode exactly we'll get we'll get on it we'll get a stunt double okay all right bye y'all want to be the one who's always in the know about the game the scores the plays here's a tip the apple sports app just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules and when your team scores it shows up right on your iphone lock screen making it easy to check in anytime so rule the group chat and download apple sports for free on the app store or find it on your new iphone coca-cola for the big for the small the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimists pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola at a store near you