Verustin pyöräilyvää teitä valmistavan ornotin vuonna 2013. Mielestäni parasta Shopify saan se, että voimme harjoittaa liiketoimintaa ilman teknistä osaamista, voimme hallinnoida yrityksen taustajaristeelle mien ja front-endia sekä myydä verkossa, vaivatta, jos Shopify olisi pyöräilyvaruste, sollisi mielestäni itse polkupyörä. Sillä asiat hoidetaan ja meidän liiketoimintamme hoituu Shopifyssä. Aloita ilmainen kokeilu, Shopify Piste.com sivustolla. [Musiikkia] Siellä olisi kokeilu, että liiketoimintamme hoituu. Mielestäni aloittaa liiketoimintamme hoituu. Tässä on liiketoimintamme hoituu. Mutta olisi liiketoimintamme hoituu. Oh, se ei olisi, että liiketoimintamme hoituu. Mielestäni olisi, että liiketoimintamme hoituu. Okei olisi liiketoimintamme hoituu, jossa liiketoimintamme hoituu. U.S. Customs believe got involved because they thought that child abismittura was involved. ja sellainen magia on erittäin kautta. Mutta he olen kautta kautta.
someone who was in charge of the foster care services reviewing the foster care service. And she wouldn't know it, but she was, she was friend. I mean, they both told me that this is real and it's frightening. And over the course of my stay in Omaha, somebody was following me. And then how'd you catch them following you? I mean, I'm really, I've got a really bad internal GPS. And this is 2000 to 2003. And I was driving on this country road. And I came to a triple fork. And I was supposed to take the left for it. But I took the middle fork. And it was a long dirt road. And then I hit my brakes turned around. And then there was like a grace at Anne behind me. I may be 100 yards behind me, 75 yards behind me that hit its brakes. So then I found what I was looking for. And then I talked, it was a victim. I talked to him for a while. And then when I was driving back to Omaha, there was an end like any subtlety involved. That guy was right on my tail. And I even hit my brakes a couple of times. And he was still on my tail. And I got off on an exit. And he didn't follow me off on the exit. And I stopped. That scared the shit out of you though. Well, I stopped at a convenience store and bought two ice cream sandwiches. I, I, I, I deal with stress a lot of the times of ice cream sandwiches. And, and yeah, of course, you know, that's frightening. And but after my second ice cream sandwich, I was, you know, I was, I was ready to roll. So then I go back to, and I'm staying with an old buddy of mine who isn't quite sure whether or not I've lost my mind. But then so he called someone that was for lack of a better word. He was an herbal life distributor. Wait, like, herbal life, the company? Well, I mean, herb is in. We, we, so he was a careful, he was an herbal life distributor. And, and my buddy was talking to him. And this guy broke down crying because of some traumatic things that he'd seen providing this particular network with, with weed. And I also think coke. But then the last night I was on at Omaha. I was standing in my, and my buddy was living in an apartment complex. This crazy looking woman came up to the door. And I was watching the history channel. He can't remember exactly what I was watching. I was waiting for my buddy to come home. And we're going to cook dinner. He's going to cook dinner. Much of a cook. Why can't be if I really try? Do you desperately need a nicotine pouch or coffee throughout the day just to stay awake? I got tired of being reliant on a short term fix to give me a quick burst of energy. That's why I started using ultra's new energy pouches. And they're an elite upgrade to my energy levels. These are basically instant energy in a pouch. I already loved ultra's focus pouches. 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New customers can use code Julian to get 15% off at TakeUltra.com that link is in my description below. Once again, that's TakeUltra.com link in my description below for 15% off using code Julian. After you purchased, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them I say you. So this crazy looking woman came to the door and said she wanted to give me a book. And by this time, I'm freaked out. I mean, it's, people are frightened to talk to me. I mean, it's like I'm doing an expose on the KGB and Stalinist Russia. Had you ever experienced anything like this on a story before? No, no. I once wrote a story where there was, where I proved that there was a serial killer and Minneapolis killing prostitutes. And law enforcement had denied it prior to that. And then I put together this list. I mean, I put a lot of work into it, but I found like 38, 38, that, yeah, that had been beaten, been beaten, stabbed in Australia. Right. And I thought to myself, this is going to get published. And I'm going to out this serial killer. And I hope it doesn't take it personally. So, but no, I'd never, I mean, I had been, I had hung out with the head of the Hells Angels, George, Sunny Barger. Oh, Sunny Barger at the time. I've had George in here. And I've been to the Supermax prison to interview the former boss of the KSU crime family. So I've been through these somewhat heroin things, but nothing, you know, prepared me for what went down and all along. And then I remember I got back and I was freaked out. You know, the thing that freaked me out the most is that it was all true. That there was this pedophile network. And it was getting kids from Omaha. And it was flying kids to Washington, DC. And it was the, and there were parties for power brokers. And there would be blackmailed. Could we actually fill in those blanks for people out there who aren't familiar with the full process here? Obviously, that's the like 30,000 foot in the air view, but specifically who was doing it? Who they were then selling the kids to? I mean, it's obviously very sick shit. But yeah. So this particular pedophile network, the epicenter was Omaha. And there were two primary pimps, one was Laurence King of Omaha, Nebraska, and one was Craig Spence of Washington, DC. And Craig Spence had a house. He was a CIA asset. And he had a house that was wired for audiovisual blackmail. I mean, just, just like Epstein. Yeah. And how did you know he's a CIA asset? Because there had been a number of reports that had said that he was. And plus I went to one of the guys who I trusted. Who had outed Spence's a CIA asset. What made you trust this guy, this source? Because I'd known him for a number of years. He was down in DC. He was a porter in DC. And he had never bullshitted me. I mean, he I trusted him. He's a journalist like you. Yeah. Okay. So I'm like, Craig Spence had this house that was wired for audiovisual blackmail. And then the kids would be flown all over the country. But like I acquired 200 flight receipts for from that network, because I scored the entire seal grand jury exhibits and testimony from one of the grand jurors. They had the flight receipts in a grand jury and yeah, bring charges. No, I didn't die to ham sandwich. Yeah, I'll get into the ham sandwich. So I knew that there was this connection because I came on my first trip. I came across a lot of documents very early on. And I had the good fortune. Actually, I came across a list at that and the investigator who died. It meant a list of like 325 people and there were 60 alleged victims on that particular list. So I knew that and I with Craig Spence, okay, so King and Spence ran this network. And Spence was definitely a CIS. I don't know people have theorized that King was, but I couldn't find proof that King was a CIS. And they both started getting a lot of publicity. King got busted. He ran a credit union that was for lower socioeconomic people and Nebraska in Nebraska in Omaha. And the credit union was supposed to have like 2.5 million dollars in it. And actually, he stole 39, 40 million dollars from it.
So that and it hadn't been audited in four years and if you're a federally insured credit union You have to be audited every year, but I'm not in four years. So and then spans The Washington Times was outing Spence's little blackmail operation and It's a pretty famous headline Callboys took midnight tour of the White House call boys took midnight tour of the White House The Washington Times wrote this. Yeah, the like conservative outlet in BC. Yes. Yeah and They did some really good stories on this and then so Spence was getting a lot of publicity and just like Maxwell and Epstein got a lot of publicity now King Was picked up in Omaha by Federal Marshals and it was brought to a federal psychiatric federal hospital. I guess he was possibly in the Psychiatry world. We'll never know. It's in Springfield, Missouri. There's your headline by the way There it is right there a homosexual prostitution inquiry and snares VIPs with Reagan Bush call boys took midnight tour of White House. Yes So So both King and Spence were now getting a lot of publicity and This is what happened to Epstein too. If you're a blackmailer, you cannot Blackmail people if people know that you're a blackmailer They're gonna they're gonna stay away from you. That's right. So King and Spence lost their usefulness and King was picked up just without any motions from the prosecution or defense and put in the psychiatric hospital that diagnosed him as delusional And he was there because there were two granaries that were used to cover of this up a federal and state granary And then Spence killed himself. He was in the Boston Ritz and he was wearing a tuxedo the Boston Ritz. Yeah Ritz Carlton. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he checked in and with He was wearing a tuxedo and then he had Newspaper to clip in about how That debated whether or not CIA agent should be allowed to testify before grand juries or just testify because he was he was called by a grand jury those are grand jury that was investigating that and I think Spence And I think that emcee might have been made a similar deal either You can kill yourself or we can kill you the Frank Pantangeli kind of yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Yes Frank Pantangeli is Asphoning um, so Spence that now King kept his mouth shut and he did like 10 years in federal prison and then he got out and He had a no-show job waiting for him in Alexandria, Virginia. Now, why would they let a guy like that live He's just a cog on their wheel Why would they let him sit in a prison for 10 years surrounded by a bunch of criminals that he might accidentally run his mouth to And then get out and even hook him up with a nice job You know, which is you know to kind of blackmail him up, but like why not just kill him Well, I think that the deal was made if you talk will kill you if you don't we won't and then we'll take care of you And I think Maxwell was given a similar deal I when Maxwell gets out of prison whenever that is I and it'll probably be before and with the feds You've got to do like 85% of the time. Yeah, so when what was it what was it Tim Dome was saying deep He's like, yeah, we can find a heartbeat in Iran, but we couldn't find fucking Galen Maxwell and New Hampshire So yeah, I mean that was very silly but the feds did but That was that was the Franklin scandal and What really bothers me about that and I spent seven years on that book and now there were two grand juries That said that not a single child been trafficked or even abused by these guys. So wait Just so I understand that the grand juries when you say they said that it's because they declined to bring any charges whatsoever That's they they indicted the victims that wouldn't recant They're accounts of their abuse the grand juries indicted victims. Yes. Yeah What did they end up going to trial? One of them did yeah And she got 9 to 15 years of perjury for perjury for saying that she was abused. Yeah, so it was it was boys and girls So we're getting messed up. Yeah, mostly boys, but yeah girls too And and the authorities really tried to destroy her they put her in solitary confinement for about two years I think I'd maybe I'm misremembering this, but you remember the Brian Banks case thief The line but the number one overall high school linebacker if we could google that He would say this kid was like the number one recruit in the country his senior year some girl accused him of rape He went to prison for like six years which ended his career and he was led out of prison and exonerated because she lied and if I'm not mistaken Was she ever even was she ever even tried for that? I don't think she was Yeah, Alicia Owen is the the woman's name Alicia own Owen. Oh, and yeah, let's look her up as well yet A little girl who makes an an accusation against grown-ass men that clearly had a lot of evidence here When the grand jury refuses to bring charges against that they double whammy it and the prosecutors bring in another grand jury Or whatever maybe the same one to then indict her for that. Okay. So here's how that worked out The first grand jury was well, they were both dog and point shows, but the first grand jury wendered for months And the prosecutor I don't know if your audience is familiar with how grand jerry's work But a special prosecutor is chosen to oversee a grand jury And he or she shows the prosecutor is the evidence that he or she deems important and calls the Witnesses shows the jury. What's that shows the jury right? Yeah, and grand jurors are just people that have shown up for jury duty So the special prosecutor of a grand jury that there's that famous quote could get a grand jury's doing that a ham sandwich and what they did and and this also happened with Epstein's grand jury to that found out that that ruled he and Melissa the single job that happened in Florida wave what year was that um it was I think 2006 So that was a separate grand jury from the one that did end up bringing charges or you talk about the same one I'm talking about Epstein very early on during his first bus, but right but with this These there were two grand juries There was a state grand jury and a federal grand jury in Nebraska. Okay, and both of them declared that not a single child been abused And Alicia Owen and Paul binassi were indicted for perjury. Alicia was given eight counts of Perjury and Paul binassi was given three counts. Yeah, here it is 1993 august So this is the appeals where where she's appealing I guess her sentence or or being found guilty The trial lasted five weeks the record contains over 4,000 pages of trial testimony a hundred eight two exhibits including approximately 11 hours A videotape testimony of Alicia included in the exhibits are more than a thousand pages of testimony from a previous grand jury proceeding related To Owens's perjury trial having reviewed the foregoing we present a summary of the facts relevant to the issues on the appeal Can you go all the way down to the bottom? Obviously they denied Oh, we can't get it because it's it's behind the table. Okay, but that wow that's So Alicia was looking at It cost a perjury so she was looking at 160 years 160 years for perjury. Yeah, what? And Nebraska at that point one kind of perjury could use you 20 years. Jesus Christ And then the Feds indicted her on a cost of perjury and that's five years max. So she was looking at 200 years this is a girl that had been trafficked in her adolescence and She was I think 1920 years old So she was looking at 200 years and prison and The FBI had told all these victims that if you talk you're going to jail for perjury the FBI told them that yeah I mean the FBI I mean the both the department of justice and the FBI teamed up to make sure that this thing went away and Alicia went so the federal grand jury was a backstop because Alicia had to be found guilty to sanctify the grand jury that said that no one had been molested and then and then they just barely got Alicia that jury was deliberate for about three days So they just they got Alicia by the skin of their teeth Somebody walked in with a gun and said so they dropped the perjury chairs. I guess Paul been asking And then put Alicia away What happened to Paul He ultimately
He was also in prison and he ultimately got out and he's married and has three kids. And it was a pretty productive life. I take it. I take it. You've seen True Detective before. I have indeed. Yeah. So that first season in particular is the greatest season in the history of TV of anything. But I want to get the creator Nick Pizzolato on here so badly because, you know, that came out in January 2014. He wrote it, I guess, in like 2011, 2012, 2013. That came from somewhere because I hold him up one day and asked him if he'd want to work to get with me. Oh, really? And he said they only wanted to do fiction. But actually, there's a. The Franklin scandal is mentioned, I think, in season two, I've treated him. So, yeah, they were definitely primed on what I wrote, I believe. Wow. That's a wow. And so, my. And I went back to Nebraska, I think, 12 times, over that seven-year period. Yeah. And then I went to Washington, D.C. Do you ever. You know, I think about this a lot with anyone working any kind of story, whether it's dark or, you know, something just historical, whatever it might be. But like, you know, you live in New York, you've lived in New York for 31 years, so at that time, you're already well underway being in New York or in all that. And you're going to Omaha, Nebraska, in the middle of the country, and you're going outside Omaha as well to track down all these different victims. You're in these smaller places. And it's almost like I'd picture a guy like you, especially as you start to peel the young in a way and get closer to closer like holy shit. What am I looking at here? It's almost like you're this speck in the middle of this whole other world. And you maybe you have a moment there at some point where you're just, I don't know, standing out on that dirt road alone and you're like holy shit. This seems like the most relaxed, laid-back, innocent kind of place, yet the darkest shit ever happened right where I'm standing. Like, did you have a moment like that? Well, I had been through Omaha twice before. And it just looked like a bunch of like fat, happy white people. And I mean, that's one wouldn't think that. But I think, you know, I asked your wild set of art go below the surface at your own risk. And I believe that there's a lot of networks at any given time. Now some of those networks might be just hooked up to the cops. Some of them actually might be hooked up to the feds. I know in Minneapolis, there's this thoroughfare where a lot of the prostitutes walk. It's called Lake Street. And the cops tell with the prostitutes that they like or the prostitutes that service them, we're going to have a dragnet on Friday night. And everybody on the street is going to get rounded up and arraigned. So I mean, that's law enforcement collusion with criminality. So I think that, but yes, one wouldn't think that such darkness would lurk under Omaha, Nebraska. But the thing about Omaha, Nebraska, and this is what makes it very different, strategic air command is located outside of Omaha, Nebraska, strategic air command. That is the brain of our national defense. That's where they took Bush after nine, right? So, and I've been told by actually two sources that Omaha has the second highest concentration of CIA of any place in the country only to Langley, just because that part, our defense system has to make sure, or the people in charge of our defenses have to make sure that nobody infringes upon strategic air commands. See, that's OK, but what the other shit, but there's a lot, I think there's a lot of illegal stuff that goes on there. Can we talk about the most underrated organ in your body? It's your liver. 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And then the other guy had been through Boystown. And a Coise town? Yeah. What's Boystown? It's the most famous iconic orphanage in the world. It's really it's the most famous orphanage in the world. In Omaha? Yeah, it's outside of Omaha. And they were using this as a sourcing place? Yeah, that was at that point, Omaha or Boystown was the smartest board for pedophiles. And it's mind-boggling because I've talked to a number of Boystown kids that were recruited out of Boystown. How? Well, obviously they were completely forced into it, their kids, but what did they, how did it work? What did, what did they tell you? Okay, so the number one guy at Boystown, my senior hub, he was a drunk and the number two, and he wasn't a pedophile. He wouldn't have made deals with pedophiles, but he was a drunk. He was pretty disconnected. It was kind of a titular head and the number two guy, James Kelly, he was a pedophile. And he'd molested, yeah, he'd molested a number of kids in New York, upstate New York, and the Catholic church in that symphony of wisdom put him in Boystown. So I believe that there was a deal made and Kelly molested a lot of kids, but I think that he was also, because someone had to give these kids privileges, they were flown to DC and all of us, someone had to give these kids privileges to get out of, oh, get out of Boystown. And I think it was Kelly. So that's how, and all as they really needed was that one guy. Just one guy. And, but there were other people that were involved too with Boystown and the money, it was all about the money. Who were the other people? People that, so with Boystown, they've got like individual houses where the kids stand, it's supposed to be like the family teachers. So it's supposed to be like a household. Now I've told that family teachers were also involved. And what I found really disturbing was, it seems, now I can't prove this, that kids that didn't have parents or parents that really looked after them were much more susceptible to being trafficked than other kids.
I mean, it's an orphanage, they don't have, yeah. Well, we are talking kids from very lower socioeconomic backgrounds, and you've given them $500, and they'll do a lot of different things for $500 or $1,000. So they're paying the kids literally. Well, there's money and there's drugs. Those are the carrots. So they would go in and drug them with, are we talking like date rape drugs kind of thing? No, no. Those were like the carrot. If you perform well, you know, you can have drugs or, oh, so they'd be like, okay, yeah. And with one, so we're getting back, the woman that was the private detective that found two people for me, that I wasn't able to find. She had traced a drug ring to Offer Air Force Base, which is part of Stradcom, and according to her, she was taken for a ride in a van, and beat up really badly, and then pushed out of the van onto a highway. So you can get away, when it's, when something is that insular, you can get away with a lot of criminality, yeah. Now with, so she found a girl named Shenetta Moore that I had a documentation on, and she found a guy named Rufox, and I've been looking for Ruf forever. And this was towards the end of my investigation, and these are victims, like you said. Yeah. And Ruf, okay. So the detective told me, you know, Ruf's got a sleeve that's, you know, a mile long, violent, cracker, a criminal record, that's a mile long, and he's really violent, so be careful. And so I called up Ruf, and I said, "Ruf, my name's Nick Rhyme, I'm a journalist, I'm working on a story I'd like to talk to you." And he goes, "You're a cop," and I go, "No, no, I'm not a cop. I'd like to meet with you." And he goes, "You're a cop," and I go, "I'm not a cop." He goes, "I'll meet with you, but if you're a cop, I'm going to snap your neck." And so he chose this dive bar in Omaha. The kind of bar where people drink until they die. I mean, it might be, they might die tomorrow, they might die next year, they might die in five years, but they're there to drink and die. So I'm there drinking a cranberry juice, and that doesn't taste quite right. And I'm thinking that I might need some antibiotics, but anyway, my pickle doll is aside. And then Ruf comes in with two friends. And Ruf, he was in prison for a number of years, and he is pumped up. He's like a human pit bull. And he goes, "Back here," you know, I went to shake his hand, he goes, "Back here." So there was a room in the back of the bar that was completely vacant. So it was, it was ruined as two friends and me. And he thrust me up against the wall. And it's kind of a weird thing, you know, I didn't see where the exit sign was, and a little late for that. Well, I mean, if, and Ruf was the biggest in meanest of three of them, I mean, if Worse came to worse, I was going to hit Ruf with my best shot and then got the exit. But I didn't, it was kind of weird. You know, he thrust me against the wall and he was like, "Who the cop?" And I said, "No, I'm not a cop." And he said, "Prove it that you're not a cop." So I had my backpack with me, and I pulled out the documentation on him that had linked him to the, this network from Boystown. To prove that you're not a cop, that would, I mean, my red blinker would be going off saying, "Cop." So there was, there was a lot of documentation in my backpack. So, and he told me, and I told him exactly what I was doing. And so, we sat down, I kept buying him and his body's pictures of beer. And then he needed a ride. He was shooting Crystal Math and, and, and drinking cheap vodka every morning. And so, I gave him a ride to where he was, he was, I believe he was going to cop Crystal Math and then, you know. And then I called him up, and he kept on saying, "Man, you opened up the wrong door, you opened up the wrong door." He was a 12 year old and Lawrence King, one of the pimps, that molested him and gave him a bunch of stitches. And that was covered up. He gave him a bunch of stitches, or, yeah, satamized him, gave him a bunch of stitches. So he ended that when he was a 12 year old. And then he became this big violent guy. No, hold on a minute. He obviously, something like that, through his whole life off, as we can tell, and I mean, who could blame him. But like, I would think, I'm just playing basic psychology here. I would think a really big drug abusing, you know, angry at this point, criminal, very ripped up guy might react a certain way if you're bringing up the most traumatizing moment of his life. The most horrific nightmare he's ever had. And he didn't like punch you. No, you know, the thing is, I interacted with a bunch of victims at this point. Rue was like the last victim that I actually found. And I, yeah, people have a, I try to conduct myself with integrity. And I think people can pick up that. And with Rue, he didn't, I mean. So, here's what happened with Rue. You know, I called him up a couple of times, and he kept on saying, you open the wrong door, you open the wrong door. And I was about to split Omaha and come back to New York and I thought, I'm going to try Rue one last time. And I was worried, I was really worried that that rage and wrath was going to be directed at me. But I had to give it a shot. I mean, I'd found him. It took me a long time to find him. And I had to give it one last shot. So I got to him after he had shot up some crystal meth and wring a pint of vodka is working on a car and his father's backyard. Rue had a father? Yeah. Who was dying? And who had died? But he was in the boys' home? Rue had done a lot of, his father had done a lot of time. Also. So I said, hey, Rue, how you doing? You know, you know, ready to run a, you know, 4-140 if I had to. I said, Rue, how you doing? He goes, you know, I've been thinking about talking to you about what happened to me. So this is after the bar meeting? Yeah. And two phone calls where he was very pugilistic on the phone. So I said, well, yeah, well, that'd be great, Rue, I mean, if you wanted to talk to me. So he was working on this car and I was like, go for, and his body came over and I was like the go for it. You know, get him apart. I'd get him McDonald's. You know, whatever they wanted, you know, and then at a certain point, I took Rue to the hotel where I was standing and we started to talk. And it was this big scary dude who just broke down crying and that 12-year-old that had been so damaged by these malignant people came out that that armor, that that ferocity, that was the armor that he wore. And he took it off for that interview. And basically, I was interviewing a 12-year-old kid that was what that was very damaged. When he was it off, right, when he got there, how long did he have to talk to him before it just totally broke? He started crying pretty quickly. I mean, he he wanted to talk. He'd never talk to anybody about this. And there were some people that really wanted to talk to me because I had a list of 60 alleged victims put together by that investigator. And some of them really wanted to talk to me and some of them would never talk to me. And they were hard to find. A lot of these kids were really, really hard to find because they're like Rue. They've lived this subterranean lifestyle. And they don't generally, well, a lot of times they don't use a social security.
number. So they're hard to find. Why don't they use a social security number? Because they're involved in illegal activities. Yeah, I can't imagine, especially like because his whole life went totally off the rails as a result of all the things that happened to him and he knows that, like deep down, yeah, and then to realize that something like that went unpunished, that those people were not only doing it, but they were probably doing it at the behest of other people. But I mean, that network was predicted by state law enforcement and federal law enforcement. So, you know, Epstein is a carbon copy of the Franklin scandal. Why did they, in your estimation, before we get to Epstein? Why do powerful people in places use this? Why did they use sexual abuse of children as a main ring to get what they want? Well, challenge abuse is in every strata. There are child traffickers, like Jeffrey Epstein, living in a mansion on the Upper East Side. There are child traffickers living in a trailer park on the outskirts of Kansas City. I mean, predators are all around us. But the predators that we're talking about with the Franklin scandal and also with Epstein, those predators are protected because they're compromised. And I've used this analogy a number of times over the years, because what I first talked to that blackmail photographer, I was trying to get my mind around all this, you know, how does this work? You don't really read about it in a book. I mean, now you can, but prior to my book, you couldn't really read about it. And he said, once you're compromised, it's like you're on a yacht. And it's a beautiful yacht. And it's a beautiful day. And you can have anything you want on the yacht. But if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are going to make sure that you're drowned. So people that are politicians that are blackmailed like this, they're going to go along to get along because footage of their perversions was released. It would be, that'd be the end of them. So you're saying that there's a psychological thing that happens where they go, oh, fuck, I'm caught. And they're upset about it. But then their captain goes, no, no, no, where are your friends? Don't worry. You're just going to work with us now. And it's all good. And then they give them the best food, give them the best amenities and all that. And they begin to actually like the people that hold something over them. Well, they become those people. Right. And I give you a couple of examples. Dennis Hastert was Speaker of the House for six years or so, seven years. Now, there was a FBI whistleblower named Sebel Edmonds, who had said that Hastert had a shadow life. And with Hastert, years after, some years after he got out of politics, he was busted because, and here's the thing, he was a wrestling coach in high school. And he had molested, I guess, a number of young men. And one of them was blackmailing Hastert. And the FBI arrested Hastert instead of the blackmailer. So for some reason, Hastert got off the yacht. And I think that he got too greedy. He was making millions and millions of dollars as a lobbyist. And I think that he thought, well, I'm Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House. And I think he forgot that he was on the yacht. That's what I think. And then there's Larry Craig. He was, he was in DC for 25 years. And first, as we represented from Oregon, and then as a, or Idaho, and then as a, a senator. And I wrote a book called Confessions of a DC man, the politics of sex lies in blackmail. And I wrote it with a guy ran a gay escort service in DC. And the CIA assets would use his gay escorts to compromise people. So the CIA assets would, yes, yes, meaning not direct case officers and stuff, but people that assets shared information. So this guy, as I was Larry Craig, and he was a senator. And so he was getting escorts from Henry Vincent, who I wrote the book with. But then he was, there was a documentary that came out called Outrage. And it was about how gay politicians or closet politicians vote against gay rights. And Craig had one of the worst records. And, and the makers of that, the director was Kirby Dick. The maker, the maker of that documentary, he found other escorts that had been with Craig. That weren't provided by Henry Vincent. And ultimately what happened to Craig was, he was in a bathroom in Minneapolis. And he tried to pick up a vice squad cop. And, and this is a US senator. And he got arrested. And I'm from Minneapolis. I go there once a year for Thanksgiving. And I was in a, a stall sitting on a commode and someone was slapping their foot on the ground. That's the signal that Craig must have, you know, that triggered Craig. But someone was slapping their foot on the ground. And, I mean, really hard. And I had no idea. I thought they had a neurological disorder. And I'm just, I'm just fortunate that I didn't say, uh, could I help you? Yeah, there's been some come through the hole in the fucking stall. So it's not that difficult to compromise these guys and get them on the yacht. I mean, when a political system is as compromised as ours or has people that are as compromised as ours, we end up with the kind of leaders that were, you know, what? Yeah. I think there's really something to be said for that. And I, I don't think like if people deny that at this point, they're not facing reality. I think for a long time, especially in the pre-social media era, which is when you were working on this story, by the way, you know, and the pre-internet era, obviously before that, these things, it was much easier to cover them up because there couldn't be some, you know, late night commenter making a post that went viral because people go, what the fuck? You know, and they could just kind of shove things under the rug. And for a long time, there was a very easy way to compromise powerful people. And it was using their worst weaknesses against them. And I go so far as to think that they kind of, there's a certain type of person they target to put into those offices, like they know, they know this kind of person's, you know, whether it's going to be someone who's a molester or someone like the guy Swalwell who, you know, was just raping women, you know, like, as far as I know, they were of age, but, you know, none the less the allegations are that he was, he was a serial sexual offender, like there's a type of person they want in there. From what I've seen, there is the, the personality type that ends up in Washington, DC is very similar to the personality type that ends up in Hollywood. Highly, highly predatory. Highly predatory. Yeah. That needs more wine. Oh, yeah. I got you right here. That's, that's interesting. I mean, there's things that people would have said, including with the Franklin scandal, by the way, I believe when that, I mean, you even pointed out they were charging the victims just for making their claims. But when it came out and got any attention, it was called a giant hoax. And I think publicly even assess that way. And I think what we've seen is that it's not to say every single claim that's ever been made about anything ever, therefore, is true. But in the last 10 years, especially, we've seen so many things that people would have or actually did laugh away as like, yeah, no way, suddenly be proven as, wow, that's at least a lot more true than false or in some cases, exactly what we thought it was. And the Franklin scandal is one of those things that's like, you were also early to after it had been called a hoax. But before anyone was really talking about it, and sounds like it's, it's unfortunately aging well. Well, the thing about it is, when the Franklin scandal got published, I live in New York City. I live in the mecca of publishing. And I had a bunch of friends that were in publishing. And one of them was like a superstar journalist who I'd known for Minneapolis. And no one wanted to touch this story. When did you first start We're trying to sell it.
a few years into the investigation. - Probably about 2004, yeah. And no one would touch it. - No one would touch it. But I was saying that the government was covering up child trafficking and child molestation. And people weren't ready for that message. - They weren't ready for it. And then people would Google it. And Wikipedia has really done the Franklin scale a major disservice because there are Wikipedia editors that have locked that page down. You cannot make any kind of changes to that page. And it reads non-sensical. - Yeah, it's the CIA of PDF. - Yeah, yeah. - So I'm glad you know that because that page is, and there was a production company that option, the Franklin scale. And they've made a lot of movies, really good movies. And I was having lunch with the president one day. - When is this? - This was, I don't know, probably 10 years ago or so. - Oh, so after true detective. - Yeah, they optioned it. Well, he read it and he was blown away by it. I mean, the Franklin scale is really, really well-sourced and meticulous. And so they optioned it. And then he told me, 'cause they, he and other people, one was an Emmy award winning producer. They had tried to sell it. We'd worked very hard on trying to sell it. And he said, before, he said to me, as long as that Wikipedia page is gonna be the way it is, you're never gonna be able to sell that. And sell it in Hollywood because people in Hollywood don't. You know, he didn't say this, but people in Hollywood don't read. And I'll give you an example. I, right after the Franklin scale was published, I was short on funds. I really thought I could go to Hollywood. I, I, I, and now worked. I thought I could, I was, I had like three meetings a day. - How did you end up getting published, by the way? Who published it? - A, a small press and organ published a try day. And they're the kind of, the last house on the left or anybody that wants to publish a book. - Okay, so they get to publish you, you out to Hollywood. And I'm, and I'm pitching it. I'm pitching it as a documentary. I'm pitching it as a narrative movie feature film. And I had a buddy that was, it was one of the, the young Turks in Hollywood, but his career kind of ran afoul because of drug addiction. But he knew a bunch of young executives that had juice. And I met with one of them, they were kind of partners. I met with one of them and we met at a coffee shop. I gave him the book and you know, we talked and he could see that I was saying. And then about three days later, I get an email from my buddy who has run afoul, because they've looped him into their, their conversation. And they're discussing what's true about the Franklin scandal and what's not true about the Franklin scandal. And neither one had read it. That's what we're dealing with in Hollywood. - How long was the book? - It's, it's live. If you take, there was a lot of documents that we put in it because some of those documents are just so mind blowing. - But it's, I think it's around 500 pages. - Yeah, I, there are a lot of things with you and your story in reporting that are reminiscent of Tom O'Neill and his journey to the chaos. You guys have a very similar background and it's the same kind of thing in the sense that you both started on a little weed, you know, like that you're pulling on. Like, oh, this is interesting and then it balloons into this whole thing once the dam gets broken and you both ended up basically sacrificing long periods of your career to do this against all odds when it was not also, as it would turn out especially, financially smart for you to do so because so many people would turn it down whether it be for features or just in general like even to fucking publish the thing. And I think it's pretty amazing that the two of you in your separate story, his case obviously deal with the Manson murders and all the downstream effects of that and you dealing with Franklin scandal and eventually Epstein, you know, have both been vindicated in the long term in a lot of ways. - Well, you know, I've got this funny notion that a lot of people in publishing and the media don't have and it kind of surprised me. I believe that children shouldn't be molested with impunity. - You know, it's a good notion. - Yeah, yeah. And I've met many people through the years that did not share my belief in that area. I'm not really aware of any major media that's come out and said, "We need justice for the Epstein victims." The major media is very good at mass producing salaciousness but they're really, really bad when it comes to demanding justice for the victims. - Is it in your estimation, having been to a lot of these places as well and spoken with a bunch of these people over the years? Do you think it's because a lot of the people that are actually in mainstream media genuinely don't give a fuck about the worst kinds of abuse or do you think it's because the space is totally captured by interests where they don't even have a say in the matter? - So I think it's a little bit of both. - Yeah. You've got a case. Chris Hedges was a superstar at the New York Times. Want to pull his reprise. - Chris Hedges? - Yeah. And he knew, he told me that, and I believe this, a number of people knew that when Bush came out with that Saddam Hussein as what is a mass destruction, a lot of people knew it was bullshit and I mean, it was being deconstructed almost in real time on the internet. And he said the emperor has no clothes and he got fired. He got fired for that. Chris Hedges, let's pull that up. Good for him. He stood on business. The New York Times fired him because he said, I think they're wrong. - Well, yeah, I mean, it was very obvious to all of them, that but- - What did he tell you made it obvious at the time? I mean, it's very obvious now, but like when he saw it while it was happening. - He was reporting in the Middle East. So he knew he was pretty plugged into that area. And then, a friend of mine was an editor at a large magazine. And he's a free thinker. And the people that worked at that magazine were on a reservation that they didn't even know they were on. Their minds were so myopic and they didn't even know that. - Imagine that being so in your own world that you don't even know that you're Truman. - I mean, his boss didn't believe that there was blackmail going on with the Epstein case. I mean, that's how naive she was, your friend. - My friend's boss, yeah. And then my friend would like submit an article by me like once a year or so. And I wrote a book about Watergate. And at the heart of Watergate is a CI Honey trap. That's how I got turned on to the underside of the Watergate story. - When did you write that book? - I came out a couple of years ago. - Three years ago. - It's a good book. - Yeah, I might check it. - So I had a lot of evidence that Bob Woodward is a pathological liar or serial liar. I don't know the difference, but he lies a lot. And I nailed him in his Watergate reporting. He lies a lot. And can you explain like some of the things he would lie about? - Well, he said that there was this omniscient source deep throat. - Yeah, deep throat. - That gave him all this information. And deep throat, Mark Felt who he said was deep throat, could have given him some information. But there's no way. And then Woodward said that Woodward said that he would move the flower pot on his balcony. And that would signal deep throat to meet that night. And then they would take all these calves and things like that. And they meet at a parking lot in Virginia. So Mark Felt during this period had been fired by the FBI. And so. - And he wasn't, Mark Felt wasn't revealed till he died, I believe, right? - Yeah, after he had Alzheimer's. And like I said, I'm sure he gave Woodward some information. But so we're supposed to believe that the dude would drove into Washington D.C. everyday and looked at Woodward's balcony. But here's the thing about Woodward's balcony. It was in the back of the building, it was facing
like a courtyard. So you would have to, you would, you would have to drive into the alley and get on your car and walk probably about 60 feet and look directly up. Or he had a trap house. And then, and then, um, if Dether wanted to contact Woodward, he would put on, on a certain page of the New York Times, he put, he put a clock there, but at the time that they want to make. Okay, so, so he would draw a clock and leave the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so, but at that apartment building, everybody, all the New York Times were put into a pile. And everybody just got that. So there's so much line. And Alexander Hagg was really the source that was the death now. Who was Alexander Hagg? He was, uh, Nixon's chief of staff. He didn't like Nixon. You know what's funny? We look at Watergate now. And yeah, obviously, it was like this thing where there was lies and cover-ups and they literally broken and stole some shit. But you compare it to the shit we have now. It's a Tuesday. I mean, Nick, a month and a half ago, the White House situation room tapes were leaked to the New York Times. Nobody's talking about it. That would be like a biblical scandal in any other era, but we are so inundated with, there is so much noise of such insane, no fucking way. That's actually true, but oh my god, it's true stories that's something like Watergate today. I don't even know if it would make the front page. Watergate wouldn't even be a blip right today. And Nixon actually listened to the court and surrendered the tapes. I don't think any president recently would actually have surrendered the tapes. So, um, would have listened to the court. Yeah, and then they get, then their attorney general would go in front of the fucking Senate and be like, yeah, why are you breaking the law? Because we want to. Okay, no further questions. It's like, what the fuck, man? Well, as I was saying earlier, when you've got a lot of compromised people in the government, you're gonna end up with the big government that we have. They're not. So, you had the weapons of mass distraction line, no heads rolled. You had the financial meltdown, destroyed millions of Americans, millions of Americans last year. No heads rolled. That's right. Um, COVID. Well, you had Snowden's disclosures about how are being illegally spied on. No heads rolled. And then you've got very strong evidence that that virus came out of the Wuhan lab. No heads rolled. And the USAID and the CDC were finding it. And chances are it was getting a function. No heads rolled. So Americans have to quit eating shit. Yeah. I mean, as Americans, our government is destroying us. And we have to quit eating shit. And I think, and I think that there's two factors involved with this. I think that Americans have been conditioned to believe that they can't affect change. And Americans have been conditioned to hate the other side. The right thinks the left is medleyel. And the left thinks the right is medleyel. Yes. At this point, I mean, that's where it's descended to. Yes. So that's, that's an easy divide and conquer between Americans believing that they can't affect change. And then this divide and conquer here. And as long as we have that, we're never going to be able to see democracy. Yeah. I get a little cynical about this. I have to admit it. And for a lot of the same reasons that you just laid out, the one place where I'm like, maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel is the recent trend I've seen this year. When the late end, we'll talk about it, obviously, in a little bit, but when the latest tranche of Epstein documents dropped in the end of January, and then when we went to a war with Iran at the end of February, there are now two major issues that the, for the sense of the spectrum on the left and the right, whether they like this or not, agree on. I mean, my show, it's really unique in the sense that we have a really balanced audience, which I think is so fucking cool. But I will see back to back DMs from people who are clearly hardcore liberal and then clearly hardcore conservative saying that maybe they say it a little different, but saying the same things. And I can't think of a time in the last decade where that was really the case. And so I do wonder, you talk about we have to stop eating shit. I completely agree. It's a great point. And the cynic of me says people are still going to complain and then go home and watch their Netflix and you know, get on with life. But there are enough people that even now sitting here in end of July, beginning of August, that are still pissed about this stuff that is now, you know, five, six months old, which in today's society apparently is very old, that it's like, maybe this is like the ember. They just can't quite put out. Maybe this is a moment where we could have that deep. What makes it, what makes the Epstein issue dangerous to our, our leaders is that the right and the left can agree that children shouldn't be molested with him. That's right. I mean, the right and the left can agree on much, but they can agree on this. Yep. And I started an organization called Epstein Justice, or a 501(c)(3), and our goal is to get an independent congressional commission to investigate Epstein. And we're going to need a lot of people. We're going to need a lot of help. But an independent congressional commission can decouple itself from the political system. What we see now in the political system, we know that the current administration isn't going to indict anyone because of their Epstein moment. I mean, it's demonstrated that time and time again. But then you've got the Democrats having these Quarant Court shadow hearings, where they're allowing these Epstein co-conspirators to lie to them. I mean, I'll give you an example. Les Waxner said the last time he ever dealt with Epstein was 2006 when they've got emails from 2008. And then Epstein gave Waxner $51 million, or $56 million in 2011. Now, I don't care how rich you are. You don't forget about $56 million. So we know that the current administration isn't going to indict, but those Democrats, what they can do is put in referrals for indictments. They could take that perjured testimony and put in referrals for indictments. So it's at least on record, so that individual is potentially can be prosecuted. And they're not even doing that. That's a dog and pony show. And the only way, and I believe this, the only way we're going to get justice, and I think we can do it. I think enough Americans can come together on this, is an independent congressional commission that decouples itself from the political system. As long as this is hooked up to the political system, we're never going to have justice. Can you explain how that would work? Because when I hear that, and I'm sure when a lot of people out there are hearing that, they still hear congressional. So it's still in the middle of DC. It's still in the middle of the belly of the beast. What's going to make this particular setup you have in mind different? With independent congressional commissions, investigations and other issues are also are farmed out to people that aren't government personnel. Like who? Like investigators, wherever people's expert, whatever, whatever that independent congressional commission is about, a lot of times they're farmed out to people who are experts in that particular. So people might think of like the Mueller invested investigation, though, and be like, well, that worked well. No, that was not, that was not an independent congressional commission, but he was a special prosecutor brought in separately, and then it was a shit show, right? Yeah, independent congressional commissions are okay. So they require majority in the house and majority in the Senate. And I think that we can shame our politicians into giving us an independent because with Mueller, he was still connected to the political system. Of course. Whereas what we're proposing, and this is the only way we're going to get any kind of justice, is an independent congressional. All right. So let me ask you this. I hate, I'm sorry, I hate to be cynical on this issue, though. I often do a cynical people. I have to admit I am just because of what we've seen, but like they do that, whoever gets appointed to help with that process, whether it's three people or five people, ten, but whatever it is, they're all humans. They all got flaws and they all think they have constitutional rights until they start going to places that that just aren't convened for the people that decide who. who has constitutional rights and who doesn't. And some of those people, they get appointed to the commission that maybe someone like you successfully helps lobby to get, you know, gets put on it. And then they get a call from someone with no pun intended and very deep throat of voice that says, listen up, motherfucker, you ain't finding shit. Here's what you're gonna do. What stops that from happening? - Well, for example, if I was on that commission, I would make sure that it was to the letter of the law. - Okay, and there are other people like me. - I hate to be this guy, but that's awesome. But let's say you get named to that commission. - Okay. - And you've proven your whole career that you're willing to investigate things all the way down to the detail, which is incredible, and you should be commended for that. But what's to say the first day that you're named, the head of that, you know, they don't say everything you ever love is gonna die if you don't do X, Y, or Z. - I have had a death threat and I've had a lot of strange phone calls. Actually, I'm in the Epstein files. I, when I got the Black Book in 2011, I started calling victims first, but then I started calling Epstein's inner circle. And like who? Well, the one that I got ahold of was Sarah Kelley. - Okay, I knew it. - And she wanted to commiserate with me how poorly the media had treated her. And, you know, I wasn't really down with that. So our conversation wasn't very prolonged. (laughing) But it just so happens that someone sent an email, their name is redacted, to Epstein's inner circle, whose names aren't redacted. There's this journalist, Nick Bryant, be aware of him. This is what he looks like. And they had a picture of me and that they dispensed. So I thought that, and then actually there were three emails about me, one said alert. And so obviously, and. - Can we pull that up, Dave, on J-mail, that world? - But there are courageous people that will not back down from threats. I mean, there's a lot I've met a lot of them over the years. - Yeah, Gary Webb, guys like that, and then they end up dead. - Well, Gary Webb, unfortunately, I have a chance to believe that he killed himself. He was bipolar and he'd rank a lot. But there are, Tom O'Neal is a guy that just hung in there for, I mean, he spent 20 years of his life on chaos. But I've met a lot of courageous people over the years. And it wouldn't be hard to get a number of courageous people together. - Here you go. October 11th, 2011, 12, 24 PM, too unknown. Just a heads up. There's a journalist calling around again. His name is Nick Bryant. So you are all aware. I guess they had your picture attached. And then lvjetadol.com responded, "Yes, thank you." I told Darren, referring to Darren Indike, I assume, yesterday. He called me. This is his cell number to look at. Four heads up. I got the number off my caller ID, thanks. Then unknown responds again. Yep, same number. He called myself. Go ahead, down. Deep, is there more there? That's it. Do we have any others? I wonder who the unknown is. There are two others. Do you know who the unknown is? Right there? I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting that it's unknown. And then this one is labeled as redacted, which I assume is just they made it in the Gmail format. But that means it was actually blacked out on the actual file. So it says, when is the FBI going to come clean as the subject? Header, although this is from-- - Podcast. - This is from 2025. So this is an email that went to Epstein's email for some reason long after the fact. Is that fair to say, DeFi? I can't really say. - Yeah, but there's a couple other emails where one of Epstein's hench woman is Taline Epstein's economy. - Okay, Leslie Groff, go out. Leslie Groff right there, call list. Okay, so two Jeffrey Epstein from Leslie Groff on October 11th at 3.51 PM. So it's three hours later after those first emails. I believe, if I have the date right, says Bill Shore, Saul Wumman, Mark Packer, Chris Knight, Barbara Nick Bryant. And then I guess that's listing the EFTIs, just listing what document this was from in the files. - Is that like a little-- is it also creepy to you to see this, that like this dude knew you were looking into him and was looking back at you? - I've been at this a long time. Here's how I look at it. - I'm gonna play Scream sandwiches. - Actually, I had one yesterday, but I wasn't stressed. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. - Yeah. - And my adversaries are gonna do what they're gonna do. That's how I play the game of life. - What made, did you want to be a journalist when you were growing up? - No, not at all. I took one journalism class in college, and I thought it was the most boring thing I'd ever, I studied philosophy in college. - Yeah, so what happened? How'd you end up here then? - Well, okay, so I went to graduate school, and I was recruited out of graduate school to write papers for lack of a better word that pertained to biomedical ethics. - Biomedical ethics, okay? - And there were academic papers, and some of them were on fairly esoteric stuff like interstitial gesticity, and which is a lot like game theory, except it uses words instead of numbers. And I also wrote a book when I was in academia, and it pertained to lower socioeconomic children. So that's something that children is a topic that is near and dear to me. I had a difficult childhood. The first time I ran away, I was 12. - Were you grew up in Minneapolis? - Yeah, I became kind of a street kid. So what made you a street kid, so young? - I had a stepfather that didn't appreciate me, and he could be violent. So children's issues, I'd written a lot about children's issues before I ever said right about this, and so I think it's funny when someone, well, he's a conspiracy theorist. I've written all kinds of stuff about children's issues, and I've never, that had been published in very good journals, and I've never been accused of a conspiracy, I've never been accused of being a conspiracy theorist. Until you went to the things that I actually care about. That's right. - Until the Frankl's got. - So that's really cool though, because you took your own personal experiences that were really tough for you, and went out to find other kids who, through different lenses, may have had really difficult experiences to see if you could shed light on that, and help prevent it for more in the future. - Well, I mean, the first time I ran away, I was 12, and I'm glad I didn't get very far, because 12 year olds, I was very susceptible to being preyed upon. - Sure. - By the time I was 14 or 15, I was cynical, and I was fairly big, so I didn't really worry about that. - Where'd you run when you were 12? - I made it to the highway, and I was walking along the highway, I didn't know about hitchhiking, and I knew I had to get out of the house that night out of self-preservation. - What happened? - My stepfather was beating me up in a living room, and my mother said that he shouldn't hit me with a clothes fist, and then I'm a, well, you know, I'm not safe here in this environment, so that's what I took off. But getting back to your question, I, so I really, I took these journalism, one journalism class, I thought it was really boring. - Why'd you think it was boring? - It just was, and I love philosophy, I love philosophy, and I take philosophy classes because I found them very, very interesting. - What was interesting about them? - To come across thinkers like Plato or Aristotle, I'm a Kantian, a Kant is, I mean, when you talk about great philosophers, you can start out with Plato and Aristotle, and then I think that the next jump would probably be Kant, as far as the greatest philosopher. - What made him so great? He, a manual Kant,
There was a movement in philosophy called rationalists and rationalists said that we can discern the truth We have like the capacity to discern the truth and then there was the empiricists that said you can only discern the truth by measuring things That you need an empirical validation so what kind of did is he combined the two and He said that we've got these innate mechanisms mental mechanisms but To to validate it we we also need empirical which gives us the ability to empirically and evaluate something so Kant took the rationalists and the empiricists where we're very different camps and was able to combine them. Mm-hmm, and I And the book I wrote when I was in academia. I used a lot of Kantian Morality. Kant's morality is there's utilitarian morality which is the most good for the most people and if you're a Jew in Germany, utilitarian Morality doesn't really or ethics doesn't really work that well for you, right? Now Kant said he came up with a categorical imperative and he said if you make an action or a statement quantify that to The rest of the human race and see if there's a contradiction If you kill someone If everybody killed everybody then there would be nobody to kill so that would be contradictory so basically it's Kant's formula for the golden rule and his philosophy just Just blew me away. I Had lived with an Indian guru when I was 19 and a genuine Indian guru and he What what We learn there is that there's two realities. There's the reality that we see and there's and which is an illusion and then there's Reality Sure reality now Kant would say that There are two realities. There's the phenomenological reality that what we see and actually a whole a whole Philosophy has kind of predicated on phenomenology what kind I mean it kind of I mean a lot of the philosophy goes back to Kant one way or there but what Kant said is that What we see is the phenomenon Phenomenological reality but with inside is the numinal reality that we cannot perceive so That really rang true to me because I studied Eastern philosophy when I lived with this guru when I was 19 And I really do do believe that that's the case is that What we see is really just a very small portion of what the reality is take this glass Equals MC squared this glass has a The math that mass See equals MC squared is like 300,000 meters per second so squared is like 900,000 meters per second. Okay, so this glass has the energy of 900,000 meters per second and It just looks like a glass for us, but this this glass could power New York for for quite some time It has it has the energy to empower to power New York for quite some time so When you and that's that's but that's Einstein's special relativity and So I'm a proponent of Einstein. He wasn't a very good father and he wasn't a very good husband, but hell of a physicist kind of like O.J. Simpson Hell of a running back, but not a very good father or Or husband. Oh, that's such a stray. That's such a stray Einstein's catching right there so And and I'd always believe that and then I read Kant and He Explain that to me. Mm-hmm. Why why we just see the phenomenological realm compared to the thing in itself And the new he called that the numeral realm. So I was yeah, I just I was blown away by by a man who caught his philosophy And you didn't particularly you like the philosophy and you didn't particularly like the journalism class But then you start writing these biomedical ethics papers for someone I forget I was actually employed by the University of Minnesota Medical School. Okay for those, but here's the thing here's what happened You know, I was writing these esoteric papers and People in academia would read them. There were good papers. I had a bunch of papers published and was the only one I had published But there were very abstract. I mean you would need you know, almost like a PhD to understand them and then There was a woman who ran an organization in Minneapolis who said that serial killers that there was a serial killer killing prostutes and in Minneapolis and she was kind of crazy. So The media didn't listen to her and law enforcement didn't listen to her but then I knew Someone who knew someone that was a prostitute and She had said that there was a serial killer killing prostutes and We were talking about this earlier. So I went to work I I got this long list of women that had been beaten stabbed or strangled and it was It was the was their name it was when they were born and how they died and On the date that they died and then I went to the databases of the Star Tribune many of us are Tribune and St. Paul Pire and repressed and I put that information in and then I was And then the article would come up about a woman. So I put together I believe 38 women that have been stabbed strangled or beaten to death and the previous like eight years and I went I had the list and I went to the Minneapolis police and I said you sure you want to say that there's no serial killer and they thought well Yeah, I don't know maybe I don't know and then I went to the same Paul police had a homicide and I said are you sure you want to say There's no serial killer and he said well, you know, there could be and then a task force was formed to catch that Sir okay, how are you man? It's happening. I was About 32 33 so Yeah 34 so I Write this one article I've been writing academic papers for five years and nothing is getting done and then I write this one article and then a task force is formed and That led me to Journalism it couldn't have been that long after that when you were working when you came into the Franklin scandal story, right? Well, I moved to New York City in 1995 to pursue just a freelance journalism career and then I stumbled across that Finders report and started digging into Franklin scandal was in 2002 and you were traveling a bunch to Omaha to cover that story and then Going back to New York and writing up your research and trying to put together. What eventually became the book? Yes Okay, so you get the book published eventually by a publisher out in Oregon because no one was trying to And you're still living in New York City and yeah, I mean, that's also crazy too because you were sacrificing yourself financially for so long Even to be able to still stay in New York City with all that you said it was in 2011 though when you got a hold of the black book Is that right? Yeah, the the Franklin scandal was actually published in 2009 2010 There's if you look at the first page that says 2012 or something because we made some changes to it, but But it was published 2009 2010 and And I was really In dire straits financially Because I put all this money and time into writing this book and We couldn't give them away because The fact that the government would cover up Childrapping network was an anthem out of people if you cover up a crime you ain't about that crime So the fact that our government would aid in a bet child sex trafficking that was not a message people wanted here and But what I saw happening in Florida was
very similar to what was happening in Omaha. Because there were a number of girls that came forward at that point and a grand jury declared that not a single child had been abused. And I've since acquired that grand jury testimony. And what Lana Bellovic, she was a, she was a special prosecutor, which she was just malignant. She called two of the victims. The law enforcement was aware of multiple victims. They were aware of over 40. Well, at that point, the feds, yeah, when the feds got in. So, um, so she called two. One had been 14 when she was molested by Epstein. She was now 16. One had been was 16. She had been molested multiple times by Epstein. She was now 18. And she just destroyed them. And really, really, you can go to Epsteinjustice.com. I do a, uh, take down a, of the, how did she destroy them? She called in, uh, law enforcement people that just undermined their credibility. How'd they do that saying that they were on drugs and, you know, that, that type of thing. Went, went, real quick, Nick, when did you, because obviously this was all going on in 0506070809 Epstein's case. When did you first hear about it at all? Do you remember what you're that was? I was still working on the Franklin scandal. Right. So maybe like 0708. Yeah. Could have been 0809. And then I called up someone at the Palm Beach Post. And I tried to talk to her about it. Actually, I made a few calls and she just couldn't explain it. And I thought to myself, what do you do? I mean, the guy molested all these girls. And the, the grand jury said that he hadn't molested any girls. I mean, I don't, don't you think it requires a little more investigation. And she didn't seem to be willing to, she just said, well, this is kind of anomaly. It's kind of weird. It's an anomaly. Yeah. I'm, I'm using my, yeah, yeah, basically said, yeah, it's an anomaly. We just, so, so you start looking at it though in concert with what you were doing with the Franklin scandal. Yeah, it's the same thing. Well, with the Franklin scandal, there were two cooked juries and two bullshit juries in Nebraska. And then with this, this is obviously a bullshit jury coming out of Florida. And then I was broke, but I just couldn't let go. I knew that Epstein was like Franklin. I just, I just had this high power intuition. And then I went down to Florida and 2011. And then I got the black book. And now, Epstein used euphemisms for victims, he said massage under massage. There's, there's all kinds of girls. And, yeah, we were looking through the black book this morning. And like I said, I hadn't looked at it in a little while, but like under the Florida one, I mean, there's all the different states. There's bunch of them. Yeah. But there's like, yeah, yeah, right there. And you're looking at this. And a lot of it's redact and you're like statistically speaking, many of these numbers are girls. Well, I didn't have the redacted one. I had their phone numbers. I had everybody's phone numbers. So I started to call them first because you need, if there's a child having network, you need victims. I mean, so I, I called the victims first. And, and the first call was very strange because I talked to a woman whose daughter had been molested by Epstein when she was 13. And she wanted to help me. I said, I'm a journalist. I'm looking at this. She wanted to help me, but she didn't want her kid to, so she asked her kid questions. She wanted her kid to talk to you. Yes. Okay. She wanted to make sure that like everything was appropriate. That's right. So I asked the mother questions and then the daughter answered them and then the mother. So, she was still very young. I mean, she was 13 at that when she was molested by Epstein. Although there are younger people that, and we've seen that now with the files. But then I, I called a woman who said that she'd been flown around and flown to an island. And we weren't aware of an island at that point. So that wasn't in any, that wasn't discussed at any point during his initial case, like in the court records that didn't mention the fact that he owned an island. Not that I know of. Isn't that kind of crazy? You have a guy that you're bringing to trial for the worst kind of thing. And they're not listing off his various assets that included a eugenics ranch in Zorro, the fucking crazy mansion in Ohio that the farmer girls, Maria and her sister were abused at. And then obviously something like the island, like I would think that's kind of like top of mind. That investigation, the only people that put together a valid investigation was the Palm Beach Police Department. When it got, when, okay, what happened was so the Palm Beach Police Department put together that investigation and it had a bunch of, they knew a bunch of girls. They had five outrage girls, the statements, five, but they knew many more. And when that grand jury came back and said that Jeffrey Epstein had molested a single minor, Michael Ryder, who is the unsung hero of this, the unsung hero. He was chief of the Palm Beach Police Department. He became very vociferous. And he went to the US attorney who was Alexander Ocasz and you've got to investigate this. And that's, and then the FBI went to work. And the FBI did in fact, well, there's a list of like 36 victims, but they knew of 40 or more. And the FBI worked very, very hard to really bring this. There was a, there was a, a draft that had, I think, 60 indictments. And one of, by the feds and one of those indictments was a child trafficking, which is a heavy sentence in the federal system. It's 15 to life. So that's what Maxwell was now with. And so there was this draft, I think it was 60 indictments. And all of a sudden, Alexander Ocasz says, oh, we're going to do this differently. We're not going to indict Jeffrey Epstein on any counts of child molestation. We're going to have the state do it. But then we're going to give immunity to all his co-conspirators. So that's, that's how that works, which would include like Sarah Kellen. Sarah Kellen was actually named as one of the co-cons, but, but all of them. And what, what happened, and this is, I believe, what happened. A cost it was told that Epstein was intelligence and that he had to stand down. And the government, there's only two people that can tell the U.S. attorney to stand down. One is the attorney general, one is the president. And at that point, the attorney general is Alberto Gonzalez. And the president was George Bush, the cognitively challenged Bush. Yeah. Bush too. Bush too. So, um, so that was, was how it played out, is now an attorney general is going to cover up a big pedophile network without his boss telling him attorney general's are going to go out. I don't like that. So that is also not how the job is supposed to work, but unfortunately, that's how it's worked for at least the last decade and a half. Well, they're 25 years, sir. We can really get into history there, but I don't think we we have the time. Oh, yeah, it goes back farther. I just think it's I think the court, the horse completely left the left the station and when Bush was in office. But so Alexander's across this stands down. And then the state of Florida and I, Jeffrey Epstein, one kind of adult solicitation and unlawful sexual activity with a minor, which I think is potentially 15 years or 20 years. But he gets 18 months and he does 13 and he has like a little sweet in that. Oh, yeah, we went through it. We went through the details a couple weeks ago on the show. Yeah, insane. And he, and he wasn't really confined there during the day that long. No, but when he was now and I've got a good source on this, they had a special room form where he'd meet with his paralegals. And his paralegals were generally very young.
on women in their 20s. - Yep, and at least one of them came forward, deep I think, right? - Yes, one of them did one of her name was released. Just talked in that article we were referencing on the show. It's just like, you know, I look at a guy like Alexander Acosta, who as you said, had the famous line of like, now I was told he's intelligence back off. And it's like, last I checked, I don't like this one. Well, I'm pretty sure he has at least a couple daughters. - He's got two daughters. - Okay, he's got two. And he's not only stepped aside on this and said whatever, but even despite knowing that and knowing the specifics of this case and what he had said all right to with that, he had the audacity to try to continue his political career successfully as well, eventually obviously becoming the labor secretary under Trump one. And I just, you know, I'm really glad I can't relate to these people on these things, but the cognitive dissonance you have to have to continue your little climb up the political ladder. After knowing you let something like that go, even if you were a little scared, okay, but you let it go. And then to have the audacity to accept a role as he was the labor secretary. Well, that's how it works. I mean, he was on the yacht. I mean, you can get on the yacht for selling your grandmother too. I mean, if you're willing to make, but in a kind of defense, he did not, he was somewhat recalcitrant about that deal. And Ken Star and a bunch of FBI people is in the files, came and put the heat on him too. - Ken Star, who was the attorney on the Clinton impeachment job. - Yeah, who ostensibly prosecuted Bill Clinton. - Yeah, that was a, I mean, Epstein had like a, who were all his attorneys? Who's Dershowitz, who the hell else? Did he have black on there? - Lev Court, Ken Star, Dershowitz, yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's another thing. It's like, oh, this guy just hired a better legal team than fucking OJ Simpson did for a pedophile case and no one's talking about it. It's kind of interesting. - Well, the mainstream media has been asleep at the wheeler's negligent about this case. - Yeah. - And I find it tragic that the media is the way it is. And I'm kind of an outsider to the media. I mean, I didn't take, I didn't, I only took one journalism class. I've never been on a staff of a publication. So I've always been able to approach things the way that I want to approach. - And think for yourself. - And, yeah, for your thinking goes in the mix. But like I said earlier, there are people at magazines and I newspaper, and they're on a reservation that they don't even know they're on. - Yeah, yep. And then you see people, and I don't know we're personally, but I do find it interesting that someone, like Tara Palmeri, who was ostensibly in mainstream media for a long time and did these amazing podcasts back in 2020 on Epstein, and then on Maxwell, these two series she did. You know, there was another stop after political, where she was at puck.news, which was a newer kind of media platform, but now she's on her own independent bang in this drum. And like, I don't know, I'd love to ask her about that because I kind of wonder if that's related. Like she stepped off the reservation a little bit and they're like the fuck are you doing? And she went from someone who was like very much entrenched within the mainstream media, and it developed all the right connections and was a rising star there to now she does well, but you know, she's on her own, she's outside the system. That's interesting. - I've been on her show once. She's been fairly impressive in her investigation. It really comes down to conscience. - You were talking about cognitive dissonance. By the time someone continually tramples their conscience, there isn't any cognitive dissonance anymore. I think Alexander Acosta reached a point where there really wasn't any cognitive dissonance. - He accepted it. - Yeah, he accepted it. - I always wonder what that's like 'cause it's another example where you think of the movie scene of life. When you see these scenes, right? Someone walks into Acosta's office and says, you're not gonna, you know, they start talking about something normal and they say, what are you doing? What do you mean, what am I doing? You're not gonna do this. What am I not gonna do? You're not bringing charges. This is way above you. People like you swing from the neck if they start doing things like this. And the difference is when you're watching that in a movie, you know, there's a damn little piano in the background and the scary music and then they get up and the camera's close on fucking him and he's like breathing heavy and then he's like, what the fuck? And then it cuts to a new scene. But in real life, it's technically way less dramatic. It certainly feels like something but it's just two people sitting there in silence like this. No music, no cameras, no bullshit. And one guy says, you're not gonna do this and he goes, what? Okay. And then he lets it go. Well, I'm sure that there was a call from the attorney general too and Alberto Gonzalez or maybe even the cognitively challenged George Boyish. I could see that. But they had enough scandals at that point. We don't need another. So, a constant was in a difficult position. And I think he felt that he had to make this deal. Who knows what kind of threats? But then I'm sure that you might become labor secretary if you do this. Ah, it's crazy. Well, I got some questions on this. I just gotta go to the bathroom real quick. So we'll be right back. All right, we're back. So you had mentioned you eventually went down to Florida, 0809 when you were hearing about this case. You were to Florida in 2011. You went, I'm sorry, you went in 2011. You had first heard about the case in 2008, 2009. But when you went down to Florida, you started calling people included like with the massage victims as well who were little girls to be clear. But how did you, we started to talk about this earlier. How did you get your hands on the black book? What was the full process there? Like from even finding out it exists to then actually having it in your hands? There's an interesting story behind the black book, even before I got it. Alfredo Rodriguez was Epstein's house manager. That's right. And he perloined the black book. Perloined? Stole the black book from Epstein. Still a copy of it. And he called an attorney that was representing the victims, or at least two victims, I think at that point. And he said, I've got the Holy Grail, also to you for $50,000. That's it? 50,000? Come on Alfredo. Alfredo, Alfredo wasn't the brightest bulb. So the attorney called up the FBI and the FBI did a sting. Yeah, I remember that. And then got the black book. Now, the reason why, remember I said the FBI found all those victims? And then the case got a question. Those FBI agents were angry, really pissed, that Epstein had gotten away. Because they had found all the victims. So it obviously came from way above them. So the FBI leaked it to the attorney. And I met with the attorney. That wasn't Brad Edwards, wasn't it? It was Brad Edwards. It was Brad Edwards, okay. And then I met with him a second time, and he said, well, this will help you in your investigation. So he gave you the physical black book, and then you uploaded a PDF version of it? Yeah, well, I came back to New York and I tried to sell it to a publisher or a platform. You had the physical book? Well, a copy of it. A copy of it, okay. And no one wanted to touch it. I mean, and I think when I was pitching Franklin, I had, there were a number of editors and publishers I could talk, and I had a pretty decent agent. But talk about cognitive dissonance. So I'd meet an editor and I would talk to them about Franklin and then I'd show them a list of all the victims. And I could just see the cognitive dissonance going down in their eyes. They would say to themselves, this is a horrible story. I really need to help Nick Bryant. Or I can just write Nick Bryant off as crazy and have a nice meal with my family tonight. And all of them, I knew that most of them were gonna go that right. But I didn't think that all of them were gonna go that right. So by the time I got the black book, I didn't have all the connections that I had when I was pitching Franklin, but I still had a number of connections. No one would touch it. And then I hooked up with John Cooke Gawker and at that point I had the flight logs too. And he said, we'll do it. And who gave you the flight logs again? and another attorney. And so it wasn't.
It was a different. No, a different turn. So it was another attorney for the victim's though. Okay. And did he give you that probably on the basis at that point that he knew you had been the black book guy? So he's like, well, no, I don't think he knew that. But if you google me and you can see that I've done a lot of, I've written the Franklin scandal. I've done a lot of, I've written a lot on children's issues. And that's what's troubling me is trouble. I mean, now I'm a conspiracy theorist. And I had a friend of mine who was having dinner with someone who works at a, at Phoenix, got a show. And my friend said to him, have you heard of Nick Bryant? And he goes, oh, yeah, he's a conspiracy theorist. So they've heard of me, but I'm a conspiracy theorist. Wow. And that was because I'd become a conspiracy theorist. And Wikipedia completely trashed the book that I wrote that made it look nonsensical. So they had their own page on the book as well. The Franklin child abuse allegations. And that's people with Google Franklin. There you go. Boom. Right. So I, you know, I tried to pitch it and pitch it and pitch it. And finally gokker was a line to publish it. But the irony of it all is once it was published, the floodgates opened on it. And I think that there's been three quantum leaps in our understanding of Epstein. I think the black book is the first. And I think the Julie Browns series. And the Miami Herald. And then I think that the latest range of documents. I think those have been our three quantum leaps. I think you're right about that. Understand Jeffrey Epstein. When you first had this though, even before you get the flight logs, when you get your hands on the black book. And you're going through it. And, Steve, can you just, I have it on my computer here, but can you just Google or fast Epstein black book PDF and hit the first link so we can have it up? You know, like I said, I, there's just been times where I'll go through this and scroll. And I'll see a new name that I missed. You know, previously every time it's like, it's like Narnia. You know, and then I fucked up Narnia in 2011, getting that. That's what I'm looking through it. What does that feel like when you're first scrolling through this, going holy shit. And also, even before you answer that question, when you see the number of contacts that some people, that he had for some people, meaning like, I would use the example of RFK. RFK and his ex-wife, late-life wife Mary, are in there. He has like 10 contacts for the two of them at the time. I went back to when I was a little kid, my mom's old phone book that had, you know, before you had the iPhone, where you wrote down the contacts like this. And there weren't even that many contacts for like my four at the time, alive grandparents put together. And they all had emails, by the way. They were all like with it on that. And I'm like, but he has 10 contacts for one guy and, you know, does that make you guilty of something? No. But does that look really suspect? Yeah. I remember when I got to like, I hadn't slept a lot than I before. And when I'm on the road and investigating stuff, sometimes I go through some sleep debris. So I hadn't had a lot of sleep than I before. And then I got it. And then I, I've got a buddy named Peter LeVenda. He's a writer. Oh, yeah, yeah. And my call up Peter and I said, man, I got something to show you. And so we met at a Dunkin' Donuts. I was showing Peter the Black book. And Dunkin' Donuts. And, there you go. We met in a Dunkin' Donuts. And then I immediately made copies of it and then sent it to the Four Winds. The Four What? I dispersed a bunch of copies of it. I like your phrases. Because that's what I did with Franklin. Whenever I'd come across like a document that was really incriminating, I'd send it to everybody. Whenever I, I'd put all my interviews on CDs and then send them to everybody. Just so that if anything happened to you, it's everywhere. Yeah. That's smart. And I made sure that the people listening to my phone conversations understood that. When did you know or have the inkling that your phones were tapped? Fairly early on. Like in the Franklin scandal or the Epstein? Oh, no. Franklin, for sure. How did you know they were tapped? How do you know they're, well, I give you, I'll give you one example of how you know they're tapped. You're talking to someone and you're having a conversation about Franklin and he can give you some fairly decent information. And then the line goes dead. And all of a sudden there's heavy breathing on the other side. That that's an indication that that's a very good indication. Actually, I recorded it all. I call it pet sounds. There's a pet sound. Yeah, there's what do you call pet sounds? Well, it's an album by that Beach Boy. So it's kind of, you know, but but there, I mean, it's not like you get messages. We're going to kill you. Right. It's not that over. Yeah. But I have gotten a lot of strange messages and but a lot of times there's just been music. Music. Yeah. That's that that like elevator music. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. So, but like you go to me, Peter Levenda and a Duncan. Yeah. And this is years into you thinking your phones are tapped. Do you leave a drawing on the New York Times on your front page of Peter to come pick up? Like how we get in the message to Peter? You know, the thing about it is, if you're going to do this kind of stuff, you cannot be paranoid. You can't. You cannot be paranoid. No. I mean, you got to use your reason, your faculties of reason. But I mean, if you're paranoid, it's just not going to work. Because you're going to it could be frightening at times. If you're paranoid and you're on coke, then it's definitely not going to work. They're going to be underneath your bed for three months. But I'm not. I'm not a guy that's inclined towards paranoid. And I don't think that like this is the only dancer is as I don't think that this lifetime is the only dancer. What do you mean by that? I believe that we have a soul and our soul goes to another destination. So you don't fear death. I mean, everybody fears death to a certain degree. I think there's a really great writer. His name is Ernest Bakker. He was an anthropologist. And he wrote a book called The Nile of Death. And I read that book when I was in graduate school. And I thought to myself, you know, this guy has said it all. I don't need to be a philosopher. And the Nile of Death is about how it's always with us. So the first experiment on Bakker's thought is there were judges in Tucson, Arizona. And half of them were control. And then half of them weren't. And the half that weren't control had to write about their deaths. And death and they were asked certain questions about their death every day. And then they're the ones that didn't. And all of them were given the same fictitious case of a prostitute. And generally, the fine at that point was $50. So the ones that didn't have to think about their death, find the prostitute $50. The fictitious prostitute. The ones that had to read about their death find the fictitious prostitute $500. And those experiments have been repeated over and over and over. People that get reminded of their death are, you know, makes them makes them balacos, makes them angry. And so I've had to make peace with that. So it doesn't affect me. Did you make peace with that as an adult or was this something that was, you know, like you said, you grew up in an, unfortunately, a really, really difficult environment where you had to fend for yourself.
is there a part of that that stems from that? - I don't think so. I think it's the spiritual beliefs that I've acquired. And then also I knew Frank was gonna be dangerous. I knew that before you even started the investigation. - Well, certainly when I was in the investigation, there's a lot of different people that died very mysteriously with Frank. And it's, I'm not saying like I'm Captain America. I mean, I feel fear. I mean, air go ice cream sandwiches. - Right. - But 'cause when I got back from New York or from Omaha the first time, I mean, I was freaked out. I was freaked out that it existed. I was freaked out that I got into death threat. I was freaked out that I was followed. I was, I was really freaked out. - Who did, who'd you talk to about it? - Well, I had a mentor named Gerald Ballinger. And he was a retired newspaper guy. And he was, he was a mentor to me. He was like a guy that we would have breakfast every Saturday. And he was, you know, he's since passed away. I loved him as much as I can really love anybody. He was an amazing guy. And we were walking through Washington Square Park and I was telling him, you know, this is what happened. This is what happened. I'm looking for snipers and then we sit down at a bench and he said to me, this is going to be a dangerous investigation. If you decide to walk away from this, it won't change how much I respect you. And I said to him, you know, all those kids were destroyed. With impunity, somebody has to do something about that. I got to do this. I mean, I don't necessarily want to do it, I got to do it. So that's when I really made the decision to go forward. And then I never looked back. And you were able, if I'm understanding correctly, to almost like a line in the sand in the way divorce yourself from the paranoia because you just accepted it was dangerous. Yeah, good for you. And also, I want to point out you're coming at it from a different angle and in different lens, but nonetheless as an investigator, you did the thing in the moment that a guy like Alexander Acosta did not. You stared at it, you had someone literally tell you, this might be who knows what's going on in the world. This might be the most dangerous thing you've ever done. And I won't think less of you if you walk away. And you said, nah, fuck that, I'm going to do it. I got a lot of respect for that. I mean, a lot of people can walk away from that. They can just, and I think people say, well, you know, I can't do anything about that. That's right. And so I've just got, like the editors that I was pitching. You know, I don't really want to do anything about it, or I can't do anything about it. But I can't explain, there's something about it. And, you know, I'm certainly a flawed guy. I'm, you know, I'm like any other human, you know, heavily flawed, but I just, my conscience was honed to the point where I just couldn't walk away from it. And there were a lot of my friends in the media that wouldn't touch this, who reacted the same way that Alexander Acosta did. And one of them said to me, this is yours after the fact, I apologize, and I wasn't a good friend to you when you were going through that. So one of them apologized. Well, good for that person. Yeah, no, I really like him and respect him. And, but of all the people that let me down, there was one guy, his name is Maliki McCourt. I don't know if he's written a bunch of books. His brother was a famous, famous novelist. Andrew, he wrote Angela's ashes. Maliki was the only guy in the media that really went to bad for me. Maliki was his last name? Maliki McCourt. This guy? There he is. Okay. Oh, he passed away a couple years ago. Great guy, I love that guy. He went to bad for me, and he had pretty good connections, but no one would touch it. No one would touch the story. And what was his background? What an interesting bio. American Irish actor, writer and politician, born in Brooklyn and raised in Limerick. Yes, that's kind of cool. Oh, Maliki was a great guy. Yeah, but is, you know, and good for that other guy whoever that was, admitting that he was wrong later, but it's gotta be so frustrating. Like the psychology is very similar to when someone is accused of a crime they 100% know they had nothing to do with. And everyone goes, no, you did this. And they're screaming out that sometimes from an eight by six box saying, wait a minute, I didn't fucking do this. That's like my ultimate fear of like knowing that your conscience is clear. You did not do something, you're accused of the worst thing. It's a similar psychological thing when you got the goods, like you got the stuff. You've been there, you've been on the ground, you've talked to these people, you know what happened here. Even if you only know 50% of it, that's 50% more than most people know. And people look at you and say, no, Nick, you're crazy. I can't even, that makes my blood boil. People are gonna react with that kind of cognitive dissonance. And as I said earlier, this is a horrible story. I should have Nick Bryant or Nick Bryant is crazy and I can go, no one in my family has read any of my books. - No one. - Except for I had a brother-in-law that read my books. - Why haven't they read them? - Because the cognitive dissonance. They wanna believe in a world that doesn't exist. - So they still haven't read your books despite, I'll even just say this, what we've seen in, say the last year. - No, they just, they're not really wired for it. They can't handle it. I had, my brother-in-law used to read my books, but he wasn't a very good husband to my sister. I mean, he was an alcoholic and he was into hookers, so, you know, it affected the marriage. But he did read my books, which, you know, I mean, not that I'm fond of them or anything, but, you know. - I'm sorry, your delivery is so funny. Like, it just comes out of nowhere, I'm not, yeah. That was just funny. But that's kind of wild that they still, I mean, look, I do have people close to me as well who wanna believe in a world that doesn't exist despite being shown all the evidence. But as far as I know, those people still listen to my podcast sometimes, you know what I mean? Maybe they ignore the facts, but they still listen. - Well, the thing with Epstein is, everybody knows. There was a poll that I think was 89% of Americans or 92% of Americans wanted the truth about Epstein. - Yep. - And then there was a poll that 52% of Americans believed that the administration attacked Iran to get people's mind off the Epstein files. - I think there's a reasonable case there. And the Epstein Files Transparency Act, that is a law, that's not gonna go away. - That's right. - It's gonna be a law in a month, it's gonna be a law in a year, it's gonna be a law in five years. - So why do they love breaking it so much already? - Because I think that Trump has been heavily pressured. I mean, Trump is actually, according to Marjorie Taylor and Trump said, when she was defecting. - Yeah. - He said, "My friends are gonna be hurt if the truth comes out." - My response would have been, are some of these friends on the phone with us right now? That would have been my response. - And with Epstein justice, we are growing. It's been, you know, we're a grassroots movement. And we are growing. It's been slow, it's been a slog. I started a 501(c)(3) and I had no idea what I was doing. No idea, but someone had to do it. Kind of like right in the Franklin scandal, you know? I'd never written anything like that, but somebody had to do it. And if you look at the labor movement, that was a huge battle. The government was actually having its soldiers kill protesters. And eventually, labor unions became a reality. Labor unions at one point,
were thought to be completely radical. And then the civil rights huge battle, and ultimately civil rights legislation was passed. Women's rights, same thing, gave rights, same thing. These are battles that make our society better. And this is the battle now to protect our children. According to the Centers for Disease Control, 25% of American girls are molested when they're underage and 5% American boys. Now people in the field say it's slightly conservative for girls and very conservative for boys. But if you just go with those numbers, you've got over 50 million Americans that have been molested when they were underage. And that's another reason why we have to make sure that we get to the bottom of Epstein. Because most of these 50 million people will never see justice. And if they see Epstein cover it up, they're going to think that they have no hope for justice. Yeah, I think this one being so blatantly obvious. And what really strikes me is like, so you got your hands on the holy grail all the way back in 2011 to where we can point, look and say, whoa. All right, something's going on there. But now we have records from all these time periods of these people. So blatantly operating, the world is they see it from fucking Gmail accounts. I mean, I always say the trolling that it feels like when the guy at the middle of this literally had a Gmail called
[email protected]. That's like something that like 1999 AOL would auto make for you when you're like a grandpa signing on to this internet thing for the first time. Like the fact that that's in the middle of this and these people, they don't even try to be the mafia about it. They just openly talk about it. What it tells me is that-- Well, actually, they do-- there are a number of emails that said, we need to talk about this on the phone. Sure. But like, you see how many blatant things they talked about before they got there, the bar was low. And they're operating on like the number one thing that's used for discovery in civil trials, let alone criminal trials, which tells me that they believe that they existed in a world where that was not even on the conscience of a threat to them. Like, it didn't exist, they're going to-- Yeah, I'm not a part of the plebians. I don't get subpoenaed. Like, they were so confident that none of this would ever see the-- so confident that a guy like Howard Lutnik will go on some fucking New York Post podcast last summer when he knows this stuff exists and make up that whole fucking story. Reed Hoffman is a great example. Yeah, let's talk about Reed, LinkedIn founder, PayPal Mafia guy. So there is an organization called World Without Exploitation. And they're there to help all these people that have been trafficked and abused. And one of the founders was an ADA assistant district attorney yet for Brooklyn. And she suppressed evidence. And she ultimately went before an ethics panel. And the ethics panel gave her a clean slate, but she resigned four hours later. And I wrote an article about this. It's in Zero Edge. It's called the Epstein Victims being exploited yet again. And I'm looking at World Without Exploitation. Reed Hoffman gave World Without Exploitation money for a Monday night football commercial. And he tweeted about it. They tweeted about it. Everybody was-- it was Kumbaya. So-- When was this? Last year. So during the Super Bowl, World Without Exploitation had a commercial. And it just so happens that Reed Hoffman paid for that too. But the Epstein files were released eight or nine days earlier. And we knew exactly what Reed Hoffman was at that point. So they're taking money from an Epstein Chrony. Hoffman's an Epstein Chrony at best and even possibly a perpetrator. And then it's, I think, if Reed Hoffman with Epstein Justice, if Reed Hoffman said, I'll give you $10 million to help put your prize forward. I wouldn't accept a penny of his money. That's right. So I wrote an article about that. It's at zero hedge if you want to-- if your readers want to check it out. I think it's a good article. People have told me it's a good article. Yeah, Reed Hoffman's a guy-- we actually-- it's one of the guys we haven't gone deep on yet on a bunch of our episodes that we do on the weekends. But like I said, obviously, we'd found her linked in. PayPal Mafia guy, multi-multi-multi-billionaire. This is a guy who's pictured with Epstein on the island throughout the files. It's a guy who, I believe, is early as even those Wall Street Journal reports a few years ago. They had him mark down as to when he was being met. When Epstein was meeting with him on Epstein's calendar back in 2014, 2013, all after Epstein is convicted and everything. But as you just said right there, this is a guy that might have been a perpetrator as well, meaning not just some sick fuck who got blackmailed and was doing the stuff, but he might have actually been like making it happen. What's the evidence there? Well, you could tell that they're very close by the emails. And then Hoffman sends ice cream for the girls. And then he said, well, the girls are the girls that work for Epstein. Epstein talks about a wild party with Zuckerberg, Hoffman, and Mosque, and he uses the term-- Now, Jeffrey Epstein, when he would consider something wild, I mean, that would be-- Yeah, it's quite the term. So in the way that Hoffman was going to help whitewash, Jeffrey Epstein's predation. So he was going to help him online. So here he's giving all this money to this group. And he doesn't care about those victims. What he cares about is he cares about damaging Donald Trump. That's what he wants to do. But he's an idiot because he doesn't know that the documents that he's going to ostensibly play a role in releasing are going to incriminate him. I mean, that's the arrogance that you're talking about. When you put out the black book in flight logs, via Gawker sometime after 2011, it's obviously years before this case ends up breaking open. Yeah. In 2019, I do remember there were like some articles-- I want to say in 2017, like in Politico in some places mentioning, yeah, this guy who's a pedophile knows a lot of people and stuff like that, and Trump had mentioned him a couple times on the campaign trail. It's in various stops in 2015, 2016. But largely, it wasn't a major public story. What was your odyssey during that 7, 8-year layover period, if you will, to where you knew this was something big, but no one was talking about it. Very similarly, the Franklin scandal, like, were you banging down doors trying to tell people, like, I have outside the black book in flight logs, I have X, Y, and Z story on these people, and I want to work on it. And they were just saying, no, we're not touching it. I mean, at that point, I went through some really difficult financial times. Really difficult. And at that point, I was just writing to not be homeless. And I really-- I'd pitch some stories, but no one was really willing to-- and plus, I had this new understanding of the world that was kind of rarefired. And a lot of people just didn't have the kind of understanding of the world that I did. I'm talking about the blackmail and other things. So I was just trying to survive as a writer at that point. And I was editing this crazy magazine. A friend of mine had become an editor for, like, a new age magazine. I was writing articles for them. So I was just-- it was a really tough time for me, because I was just eating by as a writer. And I've been a writer for-- I mean, that's really-- oh, I really know. And that's really all I want to do is write. I mean, now I'm director of a 501(c)(3). I wish I didn't have to be. But I'm not related to what you write. So yeah, I mean, I was just writing to survive. Did you ever get mad at the world during that time period? Yeah, I can remember. I meditate. I haven't been meditating a lot recently, but I had a pretty hard-quant meditation practice. And I was meditating.
And then I got up and I said, "No one's fucking listening to me." I mean, I was really pissed off, but that is not going to serve you. To be walk around angry, that just is not going to serve anybody. So the next time I'm meditated, I didn't do that. But it's important, and I see people that go into this realm, you have to keep an emotional spiritual equilibrium, or else it's just going to chew you up and spit you out. Because I've seen a lot of people just go crazy and are misentropic because they've stumbled into this stuff. Yeah, I kind of wonder how you have it, which is a testament to you doing all these different stories for so long, and obviously until very recently, they weren't taken nearly as seriously as they should have been, and you were early to a lot of things and new things that were clearly true that other people didn't, it just blows my mind. But you and I were talking off air a little bit before about, I don't know if the words anomalies, but these hidden figures, so to speak, right in front of you on the pages of the black book, like, you know, we'll see names we recognize in places and go, oh, that's interesting. Oh, they have X number of contacts. Oh, we can track them on the flights and stuff like that. But then there's people that you kind of skip over because they're not famous. You don't know their name, and they got some contacts, and they're just one of many people in there. And all of them in some way have a story, some are small, and others are large when it comes to Epstein and being in his orbit. But you were talking to me about this one psychiatrist who's in there, Jareki. So when you had the black book, and when you first got it as this guy that you looked into back then, or was this like, no, it was relatively recently recently. Yeah. So who was this guy? Henry Jareki was a psychiatrist, and then he also got into, I think it was Gold Futures, I'm not quite sure, but he became a billionaire. A billionaire. And his kids are directors of films. And Epstein would send victims to Jareki for either maybe benzodiazepines tranquilizers or antidepressants, and we see that in the files and the emails. Well, yeah, well, how we got edified to that initially was a lawsuit, and Brad Evers litigated yes to it. And Jareki said that the woman was completely compliant with everything he did to her. There was a 60 year differential between the two. But Jareki, Epstein sent this, according to the lawsuit, Epstein said this victim to Jareki for some psychiatric help, and then Jareki kind of essentially made her a sex slave, and he would pander her out. I mean, he would have some of his buddies come and they would all, well, that's the woman. And he is immensely kind and interesting, and actually this day, yes, well, now he's kind of, I think all the time, but Jeffrey Epstein wrote him an email about how Jareki mistreated people. So if you can imagine that, I mean, Epstein thought that Jareki was his treatment of people was horrific, it's kind of an amazing email. Can we pull that up, Dave? Let's try to find out. He was so bad that Epstein, that's like when Bin Laden called ISIS a little too much. Dr. Henry Jareki and Nick Jareki event invitations, and Nick is his son, is that right? Yeah, he's got three sons, one of his sons was the director of the Jinx documentary about that real estate guy that killed those people. You can go to my, you can go to my zero hedge article, and I've got, I've got to link to that particular. Okay. We'll grab that. So the backs, the Epstein survivors being exploited yet again, one or a different one? Yeah. Epstein buyers go down. There's going to be the go to shrink, Epstein's go to shrink. Oh, a section called that. Yeah. Okay. Google. There you go. There you go. Okay. So which link would you like right there? Okay. Go to doctor. What do you call the facility? Prior to assuming, oh, there you go, astonishingly, Epstein and Jareki, that two, twenty eleven email. Okay. Down, down, right there, twenty eleven, twenty eleven. Right there. Perfect. Okay. Here we go. Yes. All right. So this is from Epstein to Dr. Henry Jareki on September 9th, 2011. As your memory seems compromised, I think you should consider the option that it is all caps your behavior that drives everyone away. They are, they are ready to love. Others are ready to be friends, others, business associates, try as they might. And though you talk a good game, they are treated to selfish, cheap and intrusive actions. The result has to be, which has been, and then poisons the water for future candidate as the reputation becomes widespread. You drive away these girls. They start out open to a love relation, I guess, referring to relationship. And then you torture and mistreat each. And then I guess take comfort in the fact that you were right not to think it possible. There you go. Whoa. That's, uh, so that is dark as fuck. Jeffrey Epstein looks at Jareki as a monster. A monster looking at another monster as a monster. It's, that's, that's not how, how, when did you? Was it right from the get go because of your investigation into the Franklin scandal? Was it right from the get go looking at Epstein, where you said, obviously, this is an intelligence related operation? I kind of had this intuition that it was. And when I got to black book, that corroborated a lot of things for me. And then when I started digging into the, the documentation, and then when I saw that Jeffrey Epstein was given that sweetheart deal and all those co-conspirators were given immunity, at that point I was pretty sure it was, and tell, that there had to be orders from on high. And why would the cognitively challenged George Bush and Alberto Gonzales tell Alexander Costa to stand down? What reason would they have? And I pretty much concluded at that point that it was an intelligence. Sure. Did you think it was CIA? Did you think it was Mossad? Did you think it was a mix of both? Did you think it was other places? Did you have any inkling about the Supra government idea that we now have from the emails the later got released to where it's clear that there are families and dynasties that operate with impunity around the world and actually just decide who gets to fucking be the figurehead in office? I looked at Epstein as a wormhole into a different universe, and you can call it the Epstein class, and with, with Epstein, now people want to say he's Mossad, and we want to say CIA. I think that there's a very dark part of our intelligence that does this type of thing, that does Franken's, that does Epstein's. And there are people in the CIA that don't even know that this exists, and then there are people in the CIA that kind of know this exists, but they've got house payments. With the Franklin scale, there were two feds that helped me out, and it took me two years to call it. Meaning CIA, guys? People in federal law enforcement, not CIA, but federal law enforcement, that really helped me. But it took me, I had to cultivate them for two years, and they had to be really solid that I would never give them up, if they should hit the fan. What made them feel comfortable in that, especially if you were a guy who was having his phone stuff? I don't know. Like I said, it took two years to cultivate their trust, and I did provide them with some information that they wanted. But it wasn't extremely, it wasn't exclusive utilitarian. I mean, I got much more information from them than they got from me, or that's what I believe
But anyway, with Epstein, there's a Palestinian hanging group called "Hendala" that released a bunch of a Hubarok females and Epstein and a Hubarok are putting together arms deals. And definitely, the Israeli intelligence, I think, or military industrial complex would whatever is involved. So I think that, but then you get Jeffrey Epstein's sweetheart deal. Our George Bush and Alberto Gonzalez are going to go to bat for a guy that's in the Masad like that? Or are they going to go to bat for a guy that's in the CIA? Or both? And that's what I believe. I think that dirty part of the Masad and the dirty part of the CIA, it's like the Gambino and Genovese crime families. They don't shoot at each other anymore because they realize that it's bad for business. They work together. Yeah, I think there's something to be said for that. And I also think the point you make about there being a lot of people who don't aren't aware of this happening in CIA is very real. It's the compartmentalization structure that allows it to happen because it's very interesting that for years now, anyone I've talked with, whether it be people I brought on the podcast or sources I got connected to who were ex-intel or probably still in, there's no one on a scale of Andy Boostamontated John Kiriaku, meaning like the range of like statist all the way to anti-statist, who has not expressed a complete disdain for their relationship with the Masad. They don't like them. They did not like each other. They did not work well together. That said, there has to be a segment in there somewhere that works hand in hand. The James Jesus Angleton kind of segment. And I think that Epstein is a guy that the evidence is pointing to, he was inside that world there. Yeah, I mean, I know a medical doctor who was in the CIA during MKUltra. And he didn't even know about MKUltra. Can you explain that? How that worked? It was obviously very compartmentalized. And so MKUltra was a huge program. I think there were 149 subprojects, but this guy didn't even have a, and he's a medical doctor. And he didn't have a clue about MKUltra. So how do you know for a fact he didn't have a clue versus he's playing stupid? I believe him when he told me this. So I mean, so what was his invite? If he didn't have a clue, he was, he was obviously brought in under the guise of something else for expertise. He knew he was being brought in. He provided set expertise and didn't realize that expertise was used for something that he wasn't aware of. Is that fair to say? Well, he was working at Stanford Research Institute with Operation Stargate, which was remote viewing. Okay. So and there's a guy that's deep. I mean, he's remote viewing, but he still doesn't know about MKUltra. I believe him on that. I mean, his expertise was used in some way to support it. Yeah, I mean, cultivating psychic ability was certainly part of MKUltra. But he was working with a completely different crew. Andre Puharic, I don't know if you're familiar with that. He was part of Operation Stargate, and he was a pedophile. Andre Puharic. Andre Puharic. He pulled that up. This is a known fact, but he was a pedophile. Oh, big time, yeah. Really twisted, depraved individual. So he was a remote viewer. Or was he? He was the guy that you conscripted your regalor. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So Andre Puharic. There he is. Born Henry Carroll Puharic was a medical and parapsychological medical inventor physician, an author known as the person who brought Israeli or regalor and Dutch born Peter Herkhoes to the United States for scientific investigation. Puharic was born in Chicago. Yeah. Okay. Let's go down here. Is there a section that talks about his? Alright, so while working in Mexico, Puharic married Rebecca Albin Hofberger, the future founder and director of the American visionary art museum day later divorced. There's section that references the data of his show. So this guy is a known pedo. Yeah, there's a regalor. He was a guy who found your regalor. Yeah, he was definitely a pedo. And I talked to this CI doctor and I said, you know that Puharic was a pedophile. And he said, well, yeah, he was a weird guy. What was the evidence to the, I mean, I believe you. What was the evidence though that made it so clear that he was in particularly? There have been a number of his victims that have come forward. And there is some really good research out there. It's called the Extreme Abuse Survey. And anybody that's in a mind control should check out the Extreme Abuse Survey. And there were, it was a survey that people, there was, there were actually four primary investigators and two of them were psychologists, maybe three of them were, but, but anyway, they, and then there was a woman named Carol Rods, who was really one of the first mind control victims to come out and in a, in a, in a really credible way and, and write a credible book. And a number, and, and Nixon supposedly stopped mind control in 1972, but according to the Extreme Abuse Survey, it, it continues to go on. Sure. And I've been, I've spoken at conferences where people have claimed to be mind controlled. And, a number of them are terrified, were terrified of Poo Harge. I mean, viscerally, terrified of Poo Harge. Well, so, and then there's been these ancillary anecdotes about him molesting a little voice to him. What, why do you, why do you think that such a sick and depraved, literally anti-human behavior, which is abusing little kids? Why do you think it exists among, I mean, it exists everywhere to be clear, like you said earlier, but why is it such a more widespread thing than, you know, maybe 20 years ago, we previously would have realized with extremely powerful people. What about it draws those types of people to it? Well, as I said earlier, every socio-economic strat, every one does. Has child molesting. That's right. It's difficult to know with these guys. Maybe some of them were abused. That's entirely possible, intergenerational abuse. And I talked to a psychologist in Washington, because I really try to understand all this. This is kind of, that type of stuff is antithetical to how I live my life. To be attracted to a child, I mean, I just, so I talked to a lot of people, but there was a psychologist that actually in Washington, DC, that I talked to, that she actually works with people that are pedophiles that don't want to be pedophiles in DC. And she came up with what I call the forbidden fruit, that, you know, here are guys. You've got these powerful guys, like Henry Jureche, their billionaires or Epstein or any Richard Branson, all, you know, all these guys, they can have steak any night they want it. But sometimes they drift towards forbidden fruit. So I think that there's different ways that these perpetrators come to, to be perpetrators. Let's go ahead and put it in. And some of them are just outright sadists. The Virginia, Jufri, who I got to know before she killed herself, she was terrified of a hood baroque, unless Wixner, terrified of them. Because they had personally abused her? Yes. Yeah. And if you look at how close a hood baroque are and Epstein were, I mean, these handala emails are just, I mean, it's, it's
score. Your hand dollar emails. And the Palestinian hacking group. Oh, that's right. Yeah. You can go to Nick Bryan NYC.com. And I've written three articles. I've got a big article about Jeffrey Epstein and C.I. connections. And then I've got two different articles about Hu Barak and Jeffrey Epstein putting together arms deals. It's the right of my blog for free. All right, let's pull that out. He's got it. There you are, Danny Jones and Mark Gagnon. And then which one are we looking for here, Nick? Um, actually go to my blog. Okay. Over on the right. Yeah. Right there. So Jeffrey Epstein and the C.I.A. Yeah. That one's like 7,200 words. And then there's a couple of other ones. That one Jeffrey Epstein and Hu Barak sell big brother to dictator. Was this in Africa? Yeah. When they were do it. Yes. Yeah. We talked about this one. So this was on different podcasts. The internal the internal platform drop site, the internet platform drop site news recently acquired a cashier of emails between Jeffrey Epstein and the former Israeli Prime Minister Hu Barak showing the Israel used Epstein as a conduit for dealing cyber weapons. The emails were courtesy of the hand dollar pro Palestinian hacking group with possible ties to Iran. And they were posted by distributed denial of secrets and nonprofit whistleblower and file sharing website. After due diligence drop site news authenticated the emails and its investigation of the Epstein Barak emails are the foundation of this blog. The emails between Epstein and Hu Barak from 2013 to 2016 show that they were a dynamic duo. Barak had of course denied being privy de Epstein's sex trafficking abuse of Myers. Even though the aforementioned emails were exchanged five years after Epstein had become a convicted trauma lester and registered sex offender of the late Virginia as you fray also named Barak is one of her unsavory perpetrators. As Epstein pimped down underage girls and young women to his affluent and powerful cronies, Israel was in route to becoming a trend setter in the development of cyber warfare technology, which included malware, spyware, cyber attacks and state of the arts or valence, think Pegasus and stuff like that. So Epstein and Barak had to scheme to augment the coffers of both Barak Israel and of course Epstein by peddling cyber technology to various countries including an African dictator. For purveyors according to the world third world countries are invariably a wellspring of revenue and convicted trauma lester Jeffery Epstein and the former prime minister and alleged pedophile of who Barak had a panache of war profiteering. Yes, so this was when they lined the West African country of Kote Ivory and their sites as a target and was right for profiteering up scene email. Barak was civil unrest exploding and the desperation of those in power isn't it isn't this perfect for you. Barak replied you're right in a way but not so think about that when there's civil unrest exploding, people would think, you know, how can we help those people? How can we how can we give them peace? I mean, how can what diplomatic overtures are required? But these guys, they want civil unrest, they want to sell arms. I mean, that's how crazy they are. They want death. They don't want death to themselves. They want death to people that they consider useless eaters. They consider pretty much everyone who's not in their class, a lab rat, but it's on it's even on a different level when it comes to the the children they abuse and then the places where they can profiteer on war. They don't give a shit. They don't have to be there. There is a email exchange between Barry Josephson. He's a big time producer in Hollywood. There's a lot of movies and an Epstein. And the email goes something like we were gay, Bill Gates and I were talking about what's the best way to get rid of poor people. And I've got I think I've got a really good idea for getting rid of poor people. And we'll have to talk on the fun about so Epstein said that. No, no, Josephson said. Josephson, I'm sorry. So they're not talking about a swaging poverty. No, they just want to. They're talking about getting rid of poor people. Yeah, it's all the people out there saying, hey, these guys are trying to do population control with stuff. At this point, I don't even know how you argue against that in a court of law. Like everything that they do, everything they're tied to is tied to people that are of lesser means dying, being used, abused, left behind, and they're just data points for them. It's really really horrible that these people who have really no respect for human life. That's right. Are running our world. When when did you find about out about the island for the first time? 2011. That's when I was I was calling up and this woman, young woman, they told me that one the phone that was the first time you with her was the first time they found out about it. So did you look into it right away at that time? No, at that point, I was just trying to psych up as much information as I possibly could. And I was really I wanted to get documents on the sweetheart deal. And the island was something that I was going to circle back to. But when you're just starting investigating and I was just starting this investigation, there were so many other things other than the island that I needed to look into, but I eventually circled back to the island for sure. And one was that I would say 2014? Yeah, definitely by 2013, 2014, I talked about it. At the time, what did you find out? Like, what was the extent of what you knew about it and what was happening there? I just knew that emcee would fly in girls and actually Virginia, you free said that they were she released the an affidavit in 2015. And she said that they were as young as 12, flown into the island. Yeah. And for pedophilic orgies. And then there was other information, but Virginia, you freeze affidavit was, or she accused Dershawitz and Prince Andrew and Maxwell of being perpetrators. That that's there's a tremendous amount of really good information in there. We haven't seen outside of Guillain Maxwell who was convicted of trafficking children to nobody. And Epstein being dead, air quotes there with everything obviously. We have not seen any of the people implicated in these emails that are now public or who are very clearly in the orbit, face any real justice in the United States. And as you pointed out earlier, we've even seen distraction after distraction, try to get the American people's mind off of it. Not to be too obvious about it, but why do you think that is and do you think that will ever change and we'll see some justice? I do believe that we will see justice. I mean, I've dedicated my life to getting justice in this case. Of course, I believe that it's possible. When I started looking into this issue in 2002, people thought I was crazy that the government taking part in child trafficking, man, you've lost your mind, Nick, but now look at how far this issue has come over the last 20 years. It's come light years. It has. I was in Ranch Village. I was listening to some music, just kind of walking around. This was about four years ago or so. And a friend of a friend of mine, of a son, I saw him at the corner of my end, and he goes, "You were right! You were right!" He was screaming at me. But the troubling thing is, I was right. And everything that I've said about Epstein, there were girls under 12 years old. I've said that, there were statistic pedophiles. I've said that. They'd been corroborated by these files. Did you find girls that weren't mentioned in any court cases or anything like that who were seven? Well, okay, I know a number of therapists that worked with dissociative identity disorder. And two of them worked with women who said that they'd been trafficked when they were under 10 years old. And both those therapists, and one's a pretty eminent psychologist, tried to get
money from the Epstein Victims Compensation Program for their clients helped them jump through the hoops and they weren't awarded any money because I believe and they also believe that there's a cover story that there was no girls under 14 years old even though there's evidence for there is there has been girls under 14 years old so that has been a place where people just don't want to go they don't want to get their to get their mind around that they're that young and the media likes to profit up is like they're 16 years old when actually the first one that came forward was 14 years old and when I was calling my first call of telling you of eight of them she was 13 years old I was telling her mother so here's the thing these guys are psychopaths if you want a seven-year-old they'll get you a seven-year-old that's just they do not their conscience is not an impediment to doing whatever they need to do and I saw that with the Franklin scandal those guys those pimps like primarily younger adolescent boys but if you wanted a seven-year-old they get you a seven-year-old that's they don't have a conscience or psychopaths and whatever your comfort zone is they will provide it because you're on the yacht you're on the yacht and you're going to be taking care of what you're on the yacht as long as you do what you're supposed to do what you're on the yacht you're going to be taking care of with whatever you want outside of some of the victims being much younger than what the media reports and what may even be talked about in common parlance what do you think is the biggest thing to this day that people are missing about the Epstein story that they should be paying more attention to well there were some very sadistic pedophiles for sure I mean we're seeing that with the documentation about torture there's that one very salient email from the guy from United Arab Emirates I can't enjoy yeah the the Amir where he's like I really enjoyed the torture video and yeah so and and I knew that very early on the the sadism too and it was uh so I've known that these victims were younger and I've known that they were treated some of them were treated very very sadistically Virginia Jeffrey was treated very very sadistically and I wrote an article about world without exploitation and everything is solid there's your women that run that organization are lawyers and the guy that's financing them as a billionaire and I could not get that article published in any kind of mainstream magazine any of the articles that I've written about Epstein I cannot get them published in mainstream magazine that's the same and in that article if you look at that article is every fact has a hyperlink right every fact but and I'm amazed that zero hedge published it the truth I'm glad somebody did I mean it's it's just nuts to me that they can keep doing it but again like you know we see the things that they want us to see and they're always preparedness for the next thing that we're gonna see so that we can forget about the last thing we did and that's how they continue and they've done it forever they being you know the powers of B that run the news cycle if you will you know and then we kind of go along with life and follow where the algorithm goes and that's how they can still get away with it I just wonder at what point you know it has that Roman Empire fall a Rome moment which to be clear I don't want to see like a fault of Rome but I'd like to see a restructuring of the fucking you know pillars that built it you know I wonder when that moment happens my belief is that we can shame our legislators into an independent congressional equation because I think if you just drill down on Epstein you're gonna drill into the sewer the sewer that runs our lines and I have that belief I might be delusional I've never been diagnosed as delusional but I do have that belief that it is possible that Americans the right and the left can come together on this issue and we can start to clean out our government well we had there's two huge names I mean there's a million huge names in these files but there's two huge symbolic names that appear in different contexts and have different conversations about them obviously related to this case who were around Epstein's orbit and knew him one is from the left one is from the right they were both presidents you have Clinton and you have Trump obviously through some of your work releasing the flight logs we know Clinton was on those planes 26 27 times went to the island all that and through you know public information as well as some people who can attest to it like Donald Trump being a guy that was in New York was around Jeffree Epstein and knew him quite well and there was a period where they had a good relationship eventually it was not that way but there's still a lot of questions going on with that I guess my main question here not in any particular order for you to go to but you know how how damning is the evidence against those two guys in particularly as as it relates to the extent to how much they were involved with Epstein well Epstein was bringing women in to the White House when Clinton was in there yeah and with Trump Epstein wasn't shy about saying he was a pedophilic pimp I mean he said that to Trump no no he wasn't shy about saying I mean he wore it on his sleeve that he was I mean he'd always be a come a lot of times you'd be accompanied by very young girls right and and that's been reported I don't know how you can hang out with the guy for a period of time and not know that he's a pedophilic pimp I you'd have to be unbelievably obtuse so it kind of goes back to the young Trump was not going to be a forever war president and we're in a forever war now with Iran there's a number of things that he said that he's done it about face on what why why is that why you know I mean people got behind him because he wasn't going to start any new wars and you know he discarded that pretty quickly I think that those guys have lived a different life than us and for life where they're they're in the Epstein class and I know that people wanted to fend down Trump to their dying breath and I know that people wanted to fend Bill Clinton to their dying breath but look at the evidence in the very least with the Trump administration they came out with that crazy document I think July 5th that said it's the immaculate it alone yeah I mean that right there is a cover up Donald Trump his administration is covering up child sex trafficking and they haven't strayed from that I just find it mind-boggling that they just came out one day and said oh that's it it's a hoax and people want we'll say well you know I don't think Donald Trump molested any underage girls and that might be the case maybe he didn't honor but he's certainly covering it up right now yes it's invincible and people again we're dealing with cognitive dissonance people do not want to believe that the person that they put in office would aid in a bed child no they don't but it also seems to be halfway a requirement to work in the Trump administration that you have some sort of long-standing ties to one Jeffrey Epstein whether it's Leon Blackson that fucking idiot liar Howard Lutnik who somehow is still the Commerce Secretary to this day has been fired, hasn't had a decency to resign.
in the last administration, Alex Acosta being the labor secretary, you find the tentacles tied back to Epstein in some weird way across so many people that have powerful positions within Trump's orbit that you have to ask the question, why is that? We know what kind of vetting people go through to fucking be a janitor in the White House. Of course, they're vetting or you would hope they were. They would be all the people that are going to be holding actual real big government positions. So they have to know that. They have to know that Howard Lutnik has lived next to Jeffrey Epstein since 2005. Yet they still put him there. By the way, even if it turned out this wasn't the case, even a guy like Lutnik never actually was around Epstein or anything like that. Obviously, that's not true. We've seen that. Just the optics alone. Of all the people I could make commerce secretary, should I make the next-door neighbor of the most insane pedophilic story in the history of this country? Should I make that? Yeah, probably not. He's a billionaire. He doesn't need it anyway. You know what I mean? It's so in your face that I can't look away from that. And deep and I have speculated, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this, that if it is in fact that Donald Trump wasn't actually like a pedophile and that's not what he did with Jeffrey Epstein, do you think it's possible as it's been posited by some people over the years on a spec basis, I should say, that maybe Melania Trump was introduced to Donald Trump by Jeffrey Epstein? Well, a lot of people have proposed that. And I guess there's some valid information. I haven't really dug into that issue with that. Dig in on that. What's that? Dig in on that. I want to see dig in on that. Well, there's so many different issues with Epstein. And Melania, I should give that really bizarre press conference. Yeah. And right when Amanda and Garo started talking behind Twitter accounts. And what I find amazing is according to the media, Donald Trump didn't know about that conference in the East Wing. That's right. That's right. Now, there, that's just another very disingenuous lie that we're expected to eat as Americans. We are eating a lot of, as I said earlier, we're eating a lot of shit that we don't have to eat. I do believe that there is a groundswell of people in our country that just say we're tired of it. The thing about people is if there's a critical mass of people, other people will do it, because they see that there's a critical mass of people. And what we're trying to do at Epstein justice is create that critical mass. And I think that once that critical mass is created, because Americans don't want Americans know what Jeffrey Epstein has been. The vast majority of them do. They are appalled that our government is covering this app, appalled. And I think that they can, we can come together around this issue. I think it's, as I said earlier, I think it's the only issue that the right and the left can agree on. That children shouldn't be molested with impunity. Well, I hope you're right about that. And I hope they do. Obviously, you've been in OG on this case and putting it out there for people to see for so many years. And obviously, we covered today the Franklin scandal as well, which you've written a book about and spent a lot of years of your life trying to get out there when people told you it wasn't true. And I think a lot of your work, unfortunately, has been vindicated over the years. I say, unfortunately, because you'd like these things not to be true, but good on you for trying to, you know, put some light on the darkness so the people can see that it exists. And maybe we can root it out into the future. Well, I just keep trying to do the next right thing. That's it. That's it. Well, we will, we're going to link your website and anything else you want in there as well. So a bunch of the articles we reference today, you guys will be able to see you've done some great podcasts with my friend Mark Gagnon and Danny Jones. I think you've been on Sean Ryan as well. A bunch of different shows and getting the word out there so people should go check all those out. But Nick, thanks so much for doing this man. Thank you very much, you're doing all right. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Aloita Ilmainen Kokeilu Shopify Piste Komsivustolla. at the German Kokeil shop.com/sivustol.
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