The Dark Truth Behind the Internet's Most Viral Disturbing Story | Mike Clum

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. You made a fucking unbelievable documentary. It went incredibly viral as it should have and it's one of those that, and we'll get into all of it today. It's one of those documentaries though that I am extremely glad I watched the whole thing and I genuinely never want to see it again, because it's really, really dark. Yes, well, it's a discussing documentary and I have not watched it since I put it out. I probably won't ever watch it. It's not one of those things that you want to watch. People tell me like, "Oh, Mike, I'm going to watch your documentary." I'm like, "Yeah, you know, I have fun." Yeah, but it's important work. So for people who are not familiar with it, obviously we're going to have this link down below. We can also collab on YouTube too, so people can go right to your channel and check it out. But you made a documentary about EDP 445, and it's called Inside the Sick Mind of EDP. Close. The Sick Mind of EDP. That's so far. The Insides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Sick Mind of EDP 445. So before we get into it and the disgusting things that he's been a part of and what he does, for people out there who are unfamiliar with EDP and have not seen that story over the years, can you just explain who he is so that they have that familiarity and then we'll go from there? Yeah, EDP is one of your classic early mid 2010s YouTubers. He was like doing webcam videos just like talking. And throughout the 2010s, this became this kind of like phenomena of being this funny Eagles fan. He would be on like the M.Dat MTV show, Ridiculousness, and they would bring him on ESPN. And he was just basically this color commentary commentary. He would just rant, talk about the Eagles. He would just go go wild when they would have like a trade pick or something. And yeah, it just became popular. He had millions of subscribers, was a funny sort of commentary guy. And yeah, he was a very popular YouTuber. Yeah, he was like one of the original crash out guys. I mean, that's that's I'm from the Philadelphia area. I'm from South Jersey. So like a huge Eagles fan. I remember when he came onto the scene flipping out, reacting to Eagles games in the 2011 season because they were supposed to be really good that year and then they ended up sucking. So a game would end and he would just scream at the almighty top of his lungs at the camera. And it was objectively hilarious. He also had a name like EDP 445 stood for eat that pussy 445 just makes you sort of stop and go what the fuck is that exactly. And you know, he was on Tosh.0. He did a collab with Tyler the creator on Tyler the creator's app that he was doing. And so he was kind of like he's one of those YouTubers despite him being pretty counterculture edgy and like swearing a lot. He was sort of adopted, you know, partially into the mainstream. And if he would have kept going, I don't think he'd be like the next, you know, Stephen A Smith or something. But he would have continued to be adopted just into certain parts of mainstream culture because he was he isn't actual talent. He's very good at he's hilarious. And he's really good at telling stories and telling them in a way that's over the top but still relatable enough to to be interesting. Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe to huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pinned comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via the discord link in my description below. And it was also like he's a morbidly obese guy. And, you know, it added a layer of comedy to it because you just see the fact people are funnier. Yeah, it's like you see a 600 pound guy just flipping the f*** out. And it's just a little funnier. Yeah, take that for 100%. But he was the the reason he had a fall from grace is because in 2021, there was a sting that involved the Alex Rosen, who's an online streamer and YouTuber who tries to catch pedophiles and predators. There was a sting where EDP got caught. I guess online trying to hit on and then meet up with what was the 13 year old girl. Yes. So after that, he gets canceled off the internet right just so I remember when that came out in 2021, I was like, oh God, you know, it's just really, really gross obviously. But he gets canceled off the internet, kind of loses everything, loses all his fame, crashes out over it. And at some point along the way, you make a decision that you want to embed yourself with him to create a documentary on him. I guess so, yeah, I was, I mean, I was just basically I had just come off this documentary with another fat, frankly, a YouTuber, a boogie 2988 respectfully. I mean, and he has self admitted fat. So we're not crossing any bounds here. You're delivering. And so I did the book, I did the boogie documentary. And so EDP was sort of in that vein of like fallen YouTube creators from the mid 2010s. This is not like my life aspiration to like, you know, hang out with these, with these people. But it kind of was like, hey, listen on YouTube. Once you have something that, you know, does decently well, you know, you look for things in that vein because clearly there's a, you know, interest from your audience. And so I was hitting up a few different people. And the EDP one came together. So it wasn't kind of like some master plan of like, let me go and meet this guy and spend two and a half years with him. It just sort of happened, you know, a little randomly. But yeah, it was definitely interesting. And, but there's a lot of docs. I go and shoot and learn about. And, you know, or they don't come together. You try to get it together. And just the EDP one, you know, from the, from the first day we were filming, it was like, this is, this is interesting. There's something here. So, whoa, so you've gone to do other big projects and had to scrap it even after months of work on it. Not, well, yeah, I mean, I think most doc in the even in the doc business. It's a pretty common thing. Just because, you know, I, you, me and you might say, oh, this would be really interesting. And then we, we get on the phone with them. And they only want to show certain parts. Or you could start filming and you're like, it's not, there's just, you know, you know, and so a lot of, I would say the doc business generally is experimentation and, you know, kind of it takes a lot to get a doc done just because, especially if you want to make it, you know, good. But when you said, like, okay, this is even before you talk with them. This is something I'd like to pursue if it's possible. Obviously, you knew the story. He looked guilty as hell for sure. We don't know it very clearly was, but were you going into it with the idea already of like, I'm going to make a documentary called the sick mind of EDP or were you like, I want to go understand how the fuck this guy thinks and we'll see where it lands. What, where was your head up? I mean, you know, unless I'm going to uncover like, oh, he was secretly set up. Like, it's, we all know what the deal was. So, I, I think I met up with him at Wendy's. That's where we met. And I think we got like a Wendy's burger or something together. And like, I think he was driving me back to the airport, because I didn't get a rental car. So we were just hanging out. And I think at the, out the very beginning, I had told him, listen, do you understand this tide, at least the title is, it's coming at you, right? Because like, there's no way around it. I'm not going to do this unless you're understanding that like, this is, this is coming at you. And he was like, yeah, I get it. I mean, it's cool with that. I mean, think about it for your hand, right? I mean, look, you have a pretty respectable brand, right? If I Google you, it's like, oh, this is a legit guy. But if I Googled you, and it's like, oh, Julian, the worst guy, and you had the hundreds of videos with tens of millions of users shitting on you, at that point, you really care if there's one more, right? And at his point, it by 2023, when we had, when we met, you know, it was kind of like. It was pretty well document. Now all of these videos were done by other people. You have people, you know, internet anarchist or, or turkey Tom, I don't know if turkey Tom actually did a video on them, but people in that world that are doing video essays that get millions of views. Sunny V2, the late great sunny V2. And so, yeah, I mean, that was kind of like, I pretty much knew like, hey, there's no world in which maybe I'm gonna cover things that are like maybe slightly more endearing about the guy. But regardless, it doesn't make sense any, any other framing, but that this is what this is. I wouldn't do it. And it's one thing I do. I'm not, I don't bamboozle or kind of, you know, trick, you know, a subject. So it's not, it's not the right thing to do, but it also is not good long term business to have a brand to kind of it, you know, and if they don't, they're not prepared to understand what I'm going to, what I want to make from the beginning, I'm not really inclined to even make it. So he was understanding that, hey, this is, and he had seen the boogie documentary, which that one was equally critical and it was clearly not like a promotional video. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm gonna give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping. community for a chance to make money producing content from the show. You can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already, I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. Yeah, what was as a little tangent because I'm unfamiliar with the buggy story. I haven't seen that documentary yet that you did. What was the controversy with him there? He was another. Well, he was a fat guy and he had shitty, his is my opinion. He had shitty teeth and he had a wife. Okay. He gets surgery. Lose is enough fat that he's not like, you know, super fat but he's moderately fat. And he fixes his teeth. So now he's got those like shark teeth and he used to be this like, you know, endearing sort of like cutesy guy, right, who could just like say happy things and he was like, you know, the Mr. Rogers of YouTube in the 2010s. And he gets the shark teeth and so now he doesn't look like cutesy and relatable anymore. And then he starts like trying to be edgy on live stream and he says all these like really poorly delivered like, you know, Nazi jokes and, you know, just jokes about like mutilating women. And just stupid jokes that he's clearly trying to and and basically somebody compiled this huge Reddit threat against him and he just lost all his fan base slowly but surely he started like spending a bunch of money on like, you know, different things, bought a bunch of crypto and bragged about it and slowly just lost all his likability and fan base. But he was probably the one of the biggest like YouTube falloffs of all time. If you haven't like, I would do a study. It's a, there's a reason he's the most, he's probably one of the biggest video essay type topics out there just because of how crazy the falloff because he was so beloved and he just, you know, but he's, he's a, but we did that doc and and it came out and it was like, it did well. So I kind of just, you know, that's sort of how this all originally started for me. Yeah, it's kind of, it's, it's, it's pretty crazy to look at how often you see the same kind of story. It's not just with YouTubers, but with people that, you know, get a lot of fame doing something and they're endearing because other people can relate to it in a lot of ways. And then once they get that, they get money with it and suddenly they just make a shift and try to be something that they're not. And it surprises me how often it still happens when we have so many public examples of like, don't do this. It's really simple. Just stay yourself and, you know, don't try to be something you're not and people will probably still like you. You know what I mean? And yet these guys, you see stories like this. I would imagine a guy like that is probably blown through a lot of his money too. Oh, Boogie. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He blew all of his money. Exactly. The doc, he was, while we're funny, they see out of all his money. He has done, he has rebounded well. He joined the Lowell Kyle Live podcast with Keemstar and Wings of Redemption and he started making more money. I think that podcast, at least on a hiatus now, and Boogie's making more money. So my documentary inadvertently helped him just because it put up, you know, also don't forget. He did shoot a shot of warning shot at Frank Castle. He shot a shot of gun in the air in Arkansas and was arrested for what? Some guy named Frank Castle, like came on his lawn and was calling him the N word. And so in a way to scare him off, he shot a gun in the air as a warning shot. All that's to say that Boogie is just a very, I would say low intelligence, individual at times and like you got a type, yeah, I'd like low, I love the low, I love the, I love the low intelligence. You know, those are old Trump, he's like, we love the net educated people. But no, Boogie, but yeah, I mean, basically, you know, I think people are fascinated when they, you see someone, they're huge and then they're like, they lose it. I think people just, there's just something almost cathartic about watching, watching that. Partly because this is like, you know, you hopefully it doesn't happen to you, whether you're just, you're not a content creator or not. It's just like kind of like nobody wants to fall from grace and especially with your own doing though, you don't want to know that you really, really fucked up. Yeah. And it's like, you know, how do you not do that? And I think it's, you can learn a lot even, you know, just kind of understanding what to avoid. But absolutely. So you first met as you were saying before we were talking about Boogie, you first met with EDP in 2023. How did you, did you reach out to him cold? There was a website at the time. I think the website is gone under, but EDP445.com was a popular website. You could go on the website, it had his cond, because he's banned. He can't publish on YouTube. So he created his own media company, okay, for the, for the diehards. And you can go on EDP445.com. You could watch videos. He had blog posts. You could, uh, he could, he could livestream, he did his live stream. And it's like on this janky sort of like third party live stream service that they didn't have any content moderation. He did one live stream and then was just getting bombarded with comments. I don't think he's live streamed much. But anyways, EDP445.com, you could go on there and you could book a call for I think, I think it was $60. And so I'm like, Hey, I'm just going to book a call with a guy. Like I'm, I'll just pay. And then I booked the call and I basically got in the call. It was a call like you could book a call with a celebrity or thing. And, um, I just pitched him on the idea. My headless in my name is Mike clumb. I just did a documentary on Boogie 2988, you know, people have been doing documentaries on you for the last five years. Why don't you get your voice involved in in those because they're going to just going to keep making them whether you like it or not. And, um, and, um, we had it back and forth and ended up having a few Google meetings. And then at some point, um, well, we, what were your first impressions on those Google meetings? Obviously, you know what you already know. But like, was there anything you're like, hmm, didn't expect that? Really, I mean, I'm not, uh, I don't sort of over personify people that have done bad things. I mean, to me, he was kind of like a normal, you know, relatively, what you would expect to EDP 445 to be, right? He's like, you know, funny and, and, and sort of, you know, has an interesting form of communication. And, um, yeah, just very sort of raw and brass and, you know, to me, the type of guy that I would want to do a documentary with, right? I don't want to do, I don't want to interview or talk to someone that's opaque and sort of calculating and, you know, it's not interesting, right? I want people that are going to be honest and sort of put themselves out there. So yeah, uh, the calls were going well. We met up in person and it seemed that as I helped explain my intention and the, the, the my needs, uh, in terms of what I would need to capture and whatever he, he was continuing to be open, open to it and interested. And so we, the cat, the project, eventually we just scheduled our first filming and began filming. Did you, when you were meeting with him before you agreed to everything, did he ask you like what you thought or whether or not you thought he was a monster or things like that? Did you have any conversations in that realm? Yeah. I think at one point he had asked me if he thought I, he was a predator and what'd you say? Well, I, I believe I told them, well, I do know for a fact that you, and you know for a fact that you, you know, sexy with a 13 year old, right? I don't know what the word predator really even means, right? So like setting that aside and sort of the emotional punch that comes with the word predator. I do know that you did do that. And then you know that you did message a 15 year old then two years later, right? So we both just know that. So even if we set the word a predator aside, those are two facts. And he, you know, he was an agreement. I'm like, that, and I, you know, is it possible that you would do those things again, pretend, you know, you did it twice. So it's not crazy to think that it could happen. And I would hope that what won't happen. And if you think about doing that, just contact me and like, I'll tell you to not do it now that I know you, right? So you know that, that's to me a long way of answering the question, but like that's the way I would answer that, that question. But, you know, so I wasn't, I was not bullshitting him. I mean, it was like, how am I going to do that, because obviously it's what he did. So, but I, I don't know if, if I'm in, if I'm in my shoes, even if I answered that one or the other, like, oh, yeah, you're a fucking predator, right? It's like, what, what is that accomplished for any, me, him, anything like it, you know, it's, it's, it's up to you. Other people want to, you know, sign that word, you know, obviously they can. But yeah. Right. It feels like you kind of gave him the tomato tomato without him seeing the irony of it. In some ways or like that, I just don't identify as a gender. Now, I, you know, there's language that, that is, I, I try to be matter of fact with these things. the language can sort of, it can just emotionally charge something that can be much more straightforward, right? And, like, I don't even know what the word monster means, right? I mean, when is someone a monster and then not a monster, right? And is it, is, is, is, you know, is there even, in that, is everyone that sex a 13-year-old a monster, or is there some way to sex a 13-year-old in such that you're not a monster? In which case, what is the word? Is monster just interchangeable for, you know, enticing a minor felony, right? I mean, uh, so I guess, um, but that perspective probably allows me to enter topics like this and connect with people in a way that I don't emotionally demean them while still having an objective ability to engage with what they did. I would, I would go back to the word predator and I would say if someone is on any level mentally aware that what they're doing is against the law at the very least before we even get to right versus wrong, which your documentary ended up proving that he was very aware that it, that it was against the law and he shouldn't be doing it. If someone's doing that and they're doing it from a position of power, which is an of age male in that way, also a very creepy guy to begin with, you know, and they are going after for sexual purposes, a 13-year-old girl whose brain is not even developed in any way to make some sort of, I guess, like a authoritative decision on something like that and it's completely legal. I, I would say just looking at for my end, that that fully meets like the actual Marium Webster's Dictionary term of a predator because you are essentially hunting prey. Like that to me, that's, that's prey and that's, that's what he did. That's, and I think that's how he saw it based on what you were able to capture on film. Yeah, I'm not going to debate you, but I, yeah, I just personally tend to stay away from terms like that. In, in, in the work I do, just because it, even if the, yeah, it just, it makes it tough to not only remain objective, but also to form connections with people. Right. Now, the one thing people might say to that though, and I'm saying this as someone who's a big fan of what you did, but like you're, you want to be objective to not call him things like that or try to get into the semantics of terms, fair, I get it, you're going to make a film. On the other hand, you have an idea of like what the title is going to be ahead of time and you have an idea of who he is, which is just human nature. Yeah. You're a fucking human. You're a normal human. You're not like him. So you see this. You know, it's wrong. But like, it gets really hard. Like I could never be objective to go do a documentary like that. Sorry, I'm not the guy to do it. I don't know if really anyone normal could be fully objective. Could you see why people might say they're still subjectivity to it? Oh, I'm not saying that the video, the video is very unobjective. I mean, it's a very much objective piece of art. Yes. I think for me, I just try to handle myself in a way that you don't really feel a lot. And you know, people like, oh, I was like to be around him. I'm just around him. I mean, ultimately, people commit felonies every day, all around the world in the United States, that many of which are substantially more damaging than the actions that EDP took. And I didn't, I'm not claiming he made, you know, I'm committed to felony that I can't, you know, assign that. But, you know, this stuff happens all the time, all around the world. And just because I happen to be around someone that did something, doesn't make it more or less real to the extent I should, you know, I would feel emotionally charged because I'm with him that I should just feel emotionally charged all the time. Because right now, there's a child being, you know, assaulted right now. Right. And so just because I'm not, I'm far away from it, doesn't change the facts. And so when I'm with him, I don't feel, and that's probably why I'm able to do a project like this. Because if I was like, oh, behind the camera just, you know, all mad. But yeah, that's why I just try to say rooted in the facts. And, and also try to, in the case of EDP, for all that anyone could ever know, for all that is available to understand publicly, anytime he was interacting with a minor, it was someone that was part of some operation, right. And if I was genuinely feeling like when I was with him that like, oh my god, this person is like systematically, actively, you know, going after children in some way that is like, you know, significant danger, right. It might be different, right. For sure. In this case, this is a, this is a, it's a different tone and a degree of a situation. So I think that, you know, but honestly, I probably would have done a Jeffrey Epstein documentary, meaning like embedded with yeah, no, you want to team up everything. You know, no. Yeah, you probably want to try to kill me after it came out. I don't think we'd ever heard of you. Yeah, but that'd be fun to figure out. You avoid, I avoid his avoid his henchmen. Yeah, I don't know. And then I think I make a film documentary about me avoiding death. Yeah, I feel like he's got a little more power than, yeah. But that to me was a big lens at which I approached just like, hey, what's, you know, put this on a spectrum of, oh, some have been laud and to, you know, it's like, all right, where is the systematic structural power and fear that I should be really, you know, a future, you know, proofing against. And I felt that the process and the tone I took was appropriate, given that, you know, distinction. Hansen wanted to sting up steam in like I want to say, whoa, is it deep like 2015, 2014, something like that? He told us on the on 397 when he was on with us on that episode, but he wanted to do it and they couldn't get him. Even him with all the resources and everything. It was just like there, there wasn't a way to be able to do it because of the power he had around him. I mean, even Steve Bannon, who's clearly got a lot of questions to answer for that he hasn't answered for. And the Epstein files like he allegedly recorded that guy on camera for as much as 18 hours and even teased a documentary back in 2021 that was going to come out that never did. And then two to four hours of the raw footage came out as a result of the Epstein files. He's still as far as I know has never talked about it. And we've never seen like a full documentary on the context and all that or gotten things answered. And it's like, that's Steve Bannon, who's like a living spy and clearly knows some of the most powerful people in the world and even he like, isn't can't say anything about it. It makes you think like how deep that goes. Well, if you watched that the raw footage of that Steve Bannon, it was clearly a little bit more promotion, you know, kind of the footage we saw. Yeah. Now, no, maybe there was more, but I certainly would have come a cause that I mean, I would have really just tried to film that, but that's the thing. I wouldn't have been a I like I wouldn't have done the Jeffrey Epstein documentary because of the first time we would have a call like he probably, you know, he, you know, I wouldn't have agreed to the the terms and it just wouldn't be interesting. I mean, I spent almost 15 years like directing commercials and doing different things like commercials are extremely boring. And so I don't want to make a commercial. Yeah. So when you were having the initial conversations though and you guys agreed to do this, you know, sitting in Wendy's and then hop on calls and stuff and going through what it would entail. He ended up as we're going to get to and talk about today. He ended up saying some objectively insane things on camera, like some things that I'm like, I cannot believe Mike actually got, I would have pinched myself like, did we really just get that? Were there any moments in the initial off camera conversations with him where he said anything like that? Where you were like, whoa. Um, not really. Uh, that's interesting. Perhaps I think I wasn't really trying to get him to go to those points yet. Um, but, um, you know, really, there were most, he's a pretty open book. And so the things that he said, I believe to the extent that he said them, um, on, uh, in our early calls, the other thing that's crazy for me, like I had been working on this for so long that like, to me by the time it was done, the stuff was so, I was so used to it, right? And so I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is the part where he talks about, you know, 14 year olds knowing what they're doing, or whatever, you know, whatever. It's not that intro. Now people aren't going to care that much about that. You know, you're desensitized probably, but also like the other thing that I, the other sort of view I have on this is that like everything he said, a lot of people believe objectively, right? I mean, it wouldn't be the case that a lot of people don't believe that. He said something that was so out of pocket that would be out of line with, you know, the percentages of crimes and things that occur. So he was just saying what other people out loud though. Yeah. He was willing to say it. One camera. Think about it's EDP. It's eat that pussy for four five. Right. This is the guy that says things that everyone's thinking. Yeah. This is the guy that ranks his top 200 porn stars. I don't know 200 porn stars. Okay. But I'm sure a lot of guys, you know, have like at least a top five, you know, or top three, but they don't go on YouTube and make the list and make a video under their name. Right. What was the one list he had of, like, Mo fuck is a fuck with? And it was like Andrew Taylor, Donald Trump. And then this was the best. He had Ben Shapiro and Sneco back to back. Got to love it. I'm shocked. Sneco is not suing for defamation there. I'm just looking at his. I'm like, this dude, the contradictions with him. Very, very interesting. Yeah. So he's the guy that got famous saying things that we are all thinking or that we all might say in some like drunken state. And so it wasn't a shock that he would express his views about, you know, his attractions or his views about the relationships between miners and the different, you know, different ages within that, you know, the kind of, you know, between 14 and 18 to 20 or whatever. And so I guess I didn't see any of it as socially, it's obviously socially unacceptable, but it's not scientifically ununderstandable. Right. It's like, okay. Yeah. Makes sense. Like there's a certain percent of people that, you know, find 16 year olds are attractive and even 14 year olds. And it's not 1% 1% are pedophiles, right? Meaning they're attracted to pre-pubescent. But there's a lot of people that are attracted to post-pubescent. I don't know the stats because it's hard to get, but there's sort of a sort of different research that it's a good percent of men. It's an uncomfortable number in every in every sense of the word for sure. And I see what you're saying in that he's just, I guess downloading for public discourse, the things that these guys say to themselves, but just don't say to everyone else. And now you can be like, hey, you know how we have that problem where X percent of society is actually attracted to underage women or underage boys or whatever. This is how they think. So do with that what you will. And let's figure something out here. So to me, yeah, that's why to me, I wasn't like throwing up. It's the same way if I interview guy that's like, you know what? Yeah, I beat my wife and I love doing it. And I also love cheating on her. It's like both of those things objectively happen so much that I'm like, okay, thank you. You're now the guy that's willing to like, you're the small percent of person that beats and cheats on his wife. And we'll talk about it, right? And so, but we know that a lot of people cheat on their wives, right? I mean, it's just, it's just the fact of the matter. People are more concerned about the first one there that beating then either room. Yeah. Yeah, probably. But both of those at the same time don't, don't do either of them. Okay. Point being, nothing he said was like a scientific anomaly. And so when I was filming, it just was like, okay, you know, that's your view on that. It's great. You know, bold take that you're willing to say, but I as a person that wants just raw discussion, to me, that's like, that's interesting. Whether or not it's moral is not like the, when I'm filming, it's not the framing I'm with. I'm not trying to be a moral judge of your, of your takes and your views. I'm just trying to find people that will share one way or the other what they actually think. Now, before you start, once he agreed to it and before you started rolling camera, obviously, you know, you're going to be capturing him. You have an agreement that you're going to be around him and interviewing him and observing him and filming him when he goes some places or is around his house and whatever. And he's signed off on all that and you take care of that. But like, did you? Was your approach more like, let me start filming and then see what I want to do with this or was it like already organizing like other characters you want to bring in? How you want to do the storytelling? Like, what was your process? I'm coming up with a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff I want to film. But a lot of it, you start to film and then you start to see how things are coming together and really the, how a lot of these happen is you film a master interview, right? So I'll sit down and we'll film for like eight hours and sort of the master setup and try to go through everything. And then you just sort of see what moments are really bringing to life. And then you kind of say, all right, well, from that, what else could we fit in? And clearly as you watch it, very, a lot of it was very traditional documentary style stuff, the type of stuff you'd see on an Netflix doc or whatever. But a lot of it was, you know, creatively inspired and designed, right? Where I would learn something about him or learn, hey guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It's a huge, huge help. Thank you. Elements of his views. And like, all right, well, I could get him just talking about that. But why not bring that to life and, you know, the bitch list or the real list, right? And so you're learning about these different things and, and yeah, and then over time, like, he might text me one day, like, oh, bro, check out this new AI girlfriend app I got. I'm like, oh, interesting. Let me fly back out and, you know, film some stuff on that because that sounds interesting, right? So I'm just sort of sifting over time for interesting things, right? And it's all, I'm in the game of finding interesting things. So you're with him for two and a half years, roughly. I mean, we were in regular contact. Yeah, probably it didn't go a week, which we didn't, you know, text or talk. How often were you out there to film? Probably went out there maybe eight times. He's out in California. Vegas. Vegas. Okay. Yeah. So we, I probably then I brought him out to Cleveland. We filmed there and oh, you filmed in your hometown. Yeah, we brought him out to film. That's where we filmed the, the bitch list, all the stuff in the white studio. That was all that was in Ohio. Did you give him the outfit? Or was that his idea? No, that was mine. That was mine. I just thought it was like, you could have him wear something normal. It was like, well, you know, you're the, it's a professor, right? It's like, it was like, not even professor, right? It kind of created this look that was just punch here, right? I thought it was just more interesting. So then, you know, it's entertainment. We're in the entertainment business. And I think that some people moralize documentaries very much. And, but I like to create certain aspects that as long as it's not fiction. I mean, and it's, it's true. And it's interesting that that's the world I want to live in. Yeah. You walked a really fine line very well between probably three things, properly telling the story, speaking to the seriousness of what you were showing here. And not, you know, not having laughs at the wrong moment in certain ways, which is hard to do with a guy like that. Because obviously, like there's a bottom line here that like you are, you are making a documentary about someone who's not well in the head and is a potential harm to other people in every possible way. And then also injecting what I thought was really well timed, hilarious comedy into it. I mean, but not just, not just the way you edited it and everything, whether it be like Chris Hansen coming in to do an interview and like scoring it with sweet Caroline in the background on the boom and like very funny stuff. But like, you, you had me laughing at him sometimes too, where it's like, I don't want to be laughing at this guy. But it is, it's, you know, you put him in the nutty professor outfit. And it's, it's a good touch. It's funny. And it's not like inappropriate. It works. Like how, how did you make those decisions as you went and were you weighing, you know, comedy versus seriousness all the time? Honestly, I was just trying to be like, it's obviously, uh, you have to accurately reflect the tone of the topic. I mean, this is eat that pussy 445. If I was doing an Osama bin Laden film, you know, I don't know how much a humor. There might be some humor. There might be some humor in the history of Osama bin Laden somewhere. I don't know enough about him. Maybe there is. He had a wank bank. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you lean into that. Like, you, you know, tierless is wank bank or something. I don't know. But, but, uh, you know, this isn't net and Yahoo. Okay. Like, right. It's eat that pussy 445. Right. So we got to be honest with what's going on here. And we got to make the film reflect the tone of what this is. And I think that people that are very chronically online, and I'm one of them, especially big YouTube viewers, we can sort of like, forget the context of the global actual like, like topics and sort of, uh, so focus in on this guy, EDP. And he's the worst predator of all time. And he's like, you know, mass prank. But when you zoom out, you kind of get a better context of where they fall in terms of severity. And the tone that sort of appropriately, you know, uh, I would take a different, uh, tone, you know, documenting net Yahoo. Then I would EDP 445. Also, every film is an expression of, um, the director's, uh, personality. So if I think think if I just process things through humor and darkness and then that's how it I'm going to think of those things. So I just also I want to have fun. So I, you know, part of it is I'm looking for projects is like, hey, what would I, if I'm going to have to bullshit around and blow fuck tons of money for a long time, I'm going to make it in a way that is fun for me to make and also reflects how I see it and what I would want to see in this. I think that, you know, there were rightly some people that didn't appreciate that. But, you know, I think it's art in some way. It's not really. I wasn't doing a PBS documentary and I wasn't doing science either. I wasn't doing a science experiment. And so I can kind of take artistic liberties that people may not like and, but I think it reached the audience that kind of connected with it, yeah. And I think most people to get everyone I've talked to is like, dude, fucking unbelievable. But that's it. When, when, when you're making art, if you're not pushing the envelope, it's probably not going to be, have the potential to be great art. That's number one. Number two, if you're trying to get people to think deeply about something, it's also probably not going to do that. And number three, like whenever you're, you're making anything and leaning into, especially a controversial topic like you did, you have to have people, be willing to have people that are going to hate it in order to have the people that love it too. I've never seen an example. Like people that are just like, yeah, everyone loves all my stuff. They're probably not well known. They're probably not actually trying anything. It's probably very bland vanilla or whatever and all 10 people actually like it do. Like I think some creators kind of in different spaces lean away from that because they're like afraid of what the backlash is going to be. But especially when you're making a documentary, you got to be willing to do that. And you definitely were. Well, I appreciate that. I also think the topic itself, it's a very emotionally charging. It's more emotionally charging for some people than others. And so it, some people just don't really appreciate any, you know, the fact that there was humorous parts in a project that covered themes of child sexual sexual abuse. Yeah, for some people, that's just not going to feel appropriate at all. But and I understand that and I think that, you know, that it's it's age restricted. And, you know, you, I think I tried to kind of give as much context leading into it to make help people decide if it's right for them. Right. Now, did you, was this a subject matter, you know, child sexual abuse and things like that, that is something that was personal to you as well, like from it, you don't have to go into details by any stretch, but like from people you've been around in your life or, or any personal experiences like that, or was it strictly like you landed on this subject matter, like you were saying, a VDP, this is fascinating. This guy to fall from grace. Let's learn more about it. Yeah, no, it's purely a ladder. I don't have any personal or ex, you know, experiences that made me compelled to do this is really just, it was more of something that was interesting that I got access to. I mean, I was hitting up all types of people and trying to get interesting access to things that people would want to hear that was in the sort of vein of YouTube internet culture slash just kind of interesting counter pop culture type stuff. So this just happened to come across. And even though I wasn't personally sort of involved in it, I, you know, I did decide to donate all the revenue to rain. Yeah. Just because it, I felt there would allow people to experience it in a way that they could just focus, they didn't feel like some random, you know, guy was just profiting off, you know, making people laugh about EDP or something. And that's really impressive you did that. But I was thinking about that to him, like you spent three years on this and everything. Like that's you, you made it the biggest part of your life to be able to do it. How, how do you, from like a business standpoint, how are you able to do something like that to where you're able to give the money away? Oh, it's a horrible business. One of the worst YouTube businesses out there. But I did business for a long time. I started my first company. I was 18 and had a lot of success in the corporate video world. Oh, what company, what were you doing there? Oh, I just ran a corporate video production company doing commercials. One of the largest doing the commercials. Yeah. Yeah. And, and worked really hard and built a good business, sold the business. And, and yeah, just did media business and was always kind of behind the scenes. Just kind of doing corporate stuff and was bored one day and decided to make the boogie documentary. I spent about 20,000 on the boogie doc, 25,000 and just to kind of see, hey, what would, what would do in like a, a doc on, on YouTube? Do. And it got good views. And then once the EDP, I'm like, let's, let's experiment. And so I put about 200 into, yeah, I put, I put about 200. Now that's with me shooting editing. So if I crude it out for my D.P. work and the edit, it's probably a million dollar budget for that. But I just wanted to experiment. I just wanted to, what would happen if you really took a creative swing at that level with that type of access on YouTube? I was, and, yeah, I got a taste of that. And, but yeah, I was very fortunate to have a, a, a career and, you know, I'm still a, a young guy, but that gave me the, the space to kind of pursue things like this and have, you know, the, the liquidity to put to work and, and try, try stuff for fun. That's amazing. Yeah, you, you had mentioned earlier about the commercials thing and like that not being like the creatively interesting work or whatever. But in addition to giving you the liquidity to be able to go after the things you want to and kind of have your own free life and work for yourself. Like, I would imagine still having to do things like that on schedule, on budget with moving pieces and production and trying to make it somewhat creatively appetizing so you can sell something over the years. That's got to build in an incredible amount of like editing ideas and expertise and being able to like almost train yourself through the direct to be able to get to the stuff you actually want to make and put those skills to work. Yeah, there would be no world I'd come out the gate on even the boogie doc, which out the gate and make that as my first video. I mean, I was, I was, I was grinding, I mean, probably thousands of commercials and, you know, corporate documentaries and, um, yeah, and, and you just kind of get, and just watching so many documentaries, kind of get a taste of what's good and what's not and, um, I was always sort of a competitive person. So, you know, I start making some, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna make this like, I'm gonna try to make this the best that it can be within even if it makes no sense why it's so good for what it is. How do I make it the best boogie doc, you know, the best thing that's ever been made on this topic and you just kind of go in and, and just keep pushing and, and that's why ultimately it took really long because I was like trying to really bring it together in a way that every second felt, uh, crafted who, who were your biggest influences like you growing up, whereas the years went on where you'd be watching documentaries and stuff that really impressed me. Um, I watched the first documentary I really liked was, uh, the rich, the smartest guys in the room by Alex Gibney. Mm, and I was like, wow, that's really, it's kind of like, I remember he used this song, um, fuck, what's the song? Um, with the holidays coming up, let's talk about getting yourself or someone you love, something they'll actually use, brunt, workwear. You won't work boots that can take a beating, but you shouldn't have to spend weeks breaking them in. That's what I like about my brunt boots. They feel comfortable right out of the box and still have the toughness that I need. I'm a big boots guy and I've worn a lot of other boots that take weeks to break in, but with brunt, that's not a worry at all. They're comfy right away. Whether you're on the job site, going for a long walk or tackling projects around the house, these are the pair of boots you're gonna want to reach for because brunt builds boots that work hard and help you feel great while doing it. 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And it just was like, I was just at my office, building my company and I'm playing on the conference and I was like doing, I would just be always cold out reaching and doing sales and stuff. And I had the documentary on the background. I just took the song and the way he used it, it was like, that's fucking sick. It just, I just felt, and I started playing the song and it introduced me to that song. And it was just cool to, and like, what I would do, I'd watch these documentaries and I'd look up all the people in it. And I remember I would go on LinkedIn, I could connect with the people and it was real. And I was always like the documentaries on like movies, like movies are made up. It's just some, you know, artsy guy, hipster writing like a fucking thing. And then like, all these like fucking actors that don't know shit, just like saying words. And like, there's nothing real, right? There's nothing, there's nothing fucking real about a movie. We should pack it up. We shouldn't even make this guy anything after that, you know? And the documentaries, there's like real life stakes and all the people in are real and you can contact them. Like a lot of this people that are in the documentary is just average people that you can find on Facebook and ask them things. And so I was just kind of like, oh, that's really cool. So I watch a lot of his stuff, I give up the game, you know, unironically, I told him this on his show, but H3H3, Ethan Klein, to me is such a creative force. And in 2016, I was taking a bath. I was taking a bath. And it was Epsom Salt bath. And his, it was a great bath. I remember it specifically. But I was like, hey, you know what? I'll sit in there with you. - No, just by myself, by myself. - Real EDP stuff. - Yeah, just, you know, solo dolo in the Epsom Salt bath. And I was like, hey, let me, let me just go on some YouTube and there's this fucking video with H3H3. And he's going after Tai Lopez, who at some time Tai Lopez is like this, you know, social media ad guy. And if you want this car, read these seven books. And the way Ethan Klein was going at this, the humor and the irony and the sort of bull, like it was just, I was like, what is this? It was just kind of mind blowing like the level of, the level of humor that he was going at this topic. And so I think between those two kind of like, those, I'm just oversimplifying my influences. But you have like the Alex, give me stuff that like, it's really good, it's very journalistic, but to me, it doesn't have that kind of punch of personality. I mean, but he's probably being himself and that's Alex. And then Ethan, who was just so funny and like, went after topics that were so goofy, but also worthy of going after like, Tai Lopez, you know what I mean? There was just something so fitting. And those two worlds, I would always bounce between kind of, you know, journalistic documentaries and just, you know, not to call Ethan Slop. But I, after Ethan, I would descend into further Slop of just stupid YouTube drama and funny ways to kind of integrate into those things. So I think those were the two types of influences for sure. - That's fascinating too that like, a lot of it came back to the stuff as you were saying that was real life where people were working on the real stories on the ground with real people as opposed to like, even getting some filmmaking expertise. Because you did a lot of really visceral b-roll in this thing with actors and stuff like that. But, you know, I'm looking at that. I'm going, damn, I wonder who his favorite directors are. But it sounds like that's less of your. - I don't like filmmaking. I don't like film. I don't get along with filmmakers. I don't, I think it's, you know, I hate people coming on the set and they want to, they want to make up fucking names for stinger this. That's like, bro, it's a fucking, like I don't know what the fuck any of this shit is. I don't want to talk to you. All this shit I filmed was by myself. I mean. - You didn't have anyone with you. - On the master interview and then obviously if there's two can't, but I have as little people as possible 'cause I just don't want to talk to other film guys. You know, it's just something about, you know, just something about it. So, now I'm sort of joking but not really. But, you know, I think, yeah, I was never a big film guy. I'd never, I don't, yeah, I just never, but once it started to feel like, oh, wait, I was doing these commercials and I could take this sort of skill and apply it, that was interesting to me. And I guess I've sort of inadvertently become, you know, a filmmaker and I was a kid. I wanted to, you know, I was doing all types of other stuff. I wasn't sort of being artistic necessarily. - Oh, competitive golf. I mean, I wanted to be Tiger Woods. You know, I was, I was a junior golfer. So, I was, you know, I wanted to be, you know, the next Tiger Woods or something, you know. And I play music and I would, you know, learn, I would take like six instruments at the same time, piano and cello. - There's creativity. - I was just sort of competitive more. So, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get really good at this thing and maybe better than the other piano players or whatever. And so, when I started doing videos in high school and then I eventually, I went to school for a little bit and I dropped out and was like, hey, I'm gonna start a video production company 'cause that just sounded like bad ass. Like, oh, I can make money and I can, you know, you know, do videos and have this company. That's where kind of that all began. But, yeah. - So, wow, you kind of just fell into that and then it turned into a thing and kind of unlocked something in you. - Yeah, it was a little different than most stories I hear about people, especially people who were like filmmakers or like music, stuff like that. Like, obviously, you had music in your background but like, it wasn't like you were had your influences young. - Yeah, if I wasn't good at it, I wouldn't do it. I mean, I like to do things I'm good at. And, you know, I mean, if I could be M&M. If I was a really good freestyle rapper, I could just say some fucking words right now and like, it would be like, yeah, sick. Like, I would do that, but like, I think that, you know, doing, if I was shitty at film and I was like still trying, it starts to become a little pathetic, right? I mean, do things you're good at, find what you're good at and lean into it. And learn to enjoy what you're good at is kind of what I did and- - How soon did you know you were good at it? Was it like all of your work? - I made this shitty, I posted on Facebook. I met Mike, my friend Austin Mace. He was doing a video oppression company. I wanted to be like him so I moved home to do a video oppression company and I posted on Facebook. I'm like, hey, I have a professional video oppression company now and I'm here to make videos for anyone that needs it. And my friend hit me up, he had a band and I did a video for 50 bucks and it was trash. And it was so trash they deleted the video and I felt like such a fucking loser. I'm like, I'm gonna get so good, like that's never happening again. So I just like kind of went on the grind mode of just like practicing, filming and getting good at it. And yeah, I pretty much within a few months I was like making some decent work that I could sell for 250 bucks, 300 bucks and this I was 18. I was like, I made like four grand my first year in my company. - Are you going to college at this one? - No, I dropped out. I dropped out pretty quick. - And you went to this one? - Yeah, so I dropped out when I was making like 800 bucks a month. And this was in 2012 and I think that first year I made like maybe, I made like 4,000 in my first year in business and then I did 20,000 and then I, you know, I was like, okay, and then what do I do? And then so I was good at videos but I was more good at contacting people and convincing them to use me than I was like this masterful director. - Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clips full podcast episode that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.